Do We Still Need a 5-Day Work Week?

Summary

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WSJ Your Money Briefing: "Do We Still Need a 5-Day Work Week?"

Date: July 30, 2021
Host: Charlie Turner (The Wall Street Journal)
Guest: Patrick Thomas (WSJ Reporter)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Your Money Briefing" explores whether the traditional five-day, 40-hour work week is still necessary or if a shorter work week—such as four days—could better suit today’s workforce. Host Charlie Turner and WSJ reporter Patrick Thomas discuss pandemic-driven pressures on standard work schedules, renewed interest in flexible arrangements, examples from both the US and abroad, and the organizational adjustments needed to successfully adopt a shorter week.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pandemic’s Impact on Workweek Norms

• The COVID-19 pandemic led many to question the necessity of "facetime" and traditional scheduling, exposing long-held assumptions about work structure.

• Shift to remote and hybrid work highlighted the importance of flexibility and work-life balance.

  "The experience of the pandemic and working from home has been beginning to question all the facetime requirements of the workplace."
  — Patrick Thomas (00:50)

• Burnout and mental health are now front and center in workplace conversations.

Historical Attempts to Shorten the Workweek

• Shorter workweeks have recurred as a topic for decades but never became mainstream in the US.
• During the Great Depression, there was serious talk about instituting a 30-hour workweek, but it "never quite entered the mainstream." (02:19)

Worker Demands and Labor Market Dynamics

• Employees are increasingly pushing for flexibility—remote work, hybrid models, or more time off—as a response to pandemic stress and burnout.

• Employers, facing a talent crunch, are more open to these conversations as competitive differentiators.

  "Employers are really in need of talent. They're more willing to listen to these conversations to recruit top talent..."
  — Patrick Thomas (03:30)

Who is Experimenting with the 4-Day Workweek?

• Mostly smaller, privately held US companies are piloting 4-day weeks; larger companies have not yet widely adopted the model.

• Examples:

  • Kickstarter (Brooklyn-based, ~90 employees): Announced a pilot for a four-day week.
  • Various Denver nonprofits and small firms.
  • Previously: Wild, a company that made it work after trialing the system.

  "It's really been these smaller private firms that have kind of gone on and off with trials and trying to make them work... But it still hasn't entered quite the mainstream for larger US Companies yet. That's still pretty new."
  — Patrick Thomas (04:24)

International Examples & Results

• Iceland: A government study with 2,500 employees found shorter hours did not reduce productivity and improved work-life balance and mental health.

• France: Implemented a 35-hour work week for government employees over 20 years ago.

• Spain: Recently announced experiments with shorter workweeks for government.

• Microsoft Japan: Conducted a brief five-week pilot but did not make the change permanent.

  "The study came out and showed that they were just as productive as before and had better work life balance, had better mental health, improved their productivity and reduced stress."
  — Patrick Thomas on Iceland’s study (05:21)

Why a Shorter Week Isn't for Everyone

• Implementation challenges can backfire:

  • At Alter Agents, a consultancy, a 10-week four-day week trial led to scheduling headaches, uneven workloads, and worsened team culture and resentment among employees taking/working through their day off.
  • The model can create logistical challenges, especially for client-facing or service-heavy businesses.

  "It was almost more stressful for employees to think about how to Factor in this extra day off... as the CEO put it, it really frayed the team culture."
  — Patrick Thomas (07:02)

How to Make a 4-Day Workweek Work

• Requires careful planning, schedule prioritization, and cutting superfluous meetings and tasks.

• Needs company-specific adaptation: no "one size fits all."

• Success depends on finding ways to optimize time, minimize distractions, and streamline workflows.

  "You have to figure out how to prioritize your schedule better... What things can we cut out?... That's really at the heart of this for a lot of places."
  — Patrick Thomas (08:55)

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Notable Quotes

• “The experience of the pandemic and working from home has been beginning to question all the facetime requirements of the workplace.”
  — Patrick Thomas (00:50)

• “We're seeing a huge push by employees right now for flexibility… just the ability to have that work life balance that many feel they could not get during the pandemic…”
  — Patrick Thomas (03:30)

• "The study came out and showed that they were just as productive as before and had better work life balance..."
  — Patrick Thomas, on Iceland's findings (05:21)

• "It was almost more stressful for employees to think about how to factor in this extra day off and as the CEO put it, it really frayed the team culture."
  — Patrick Thomas (07:02)

• "That's really at the heart of this for a lot of places. And that's why it requires some careful planning in terms of how to do it successfully."
  — Patrick Thomas (08:55)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:37 — Introduction to the topic and pandemic-driven pressures.
• 01:30 — Emerging trend: Four-day workweek experiments in the US and Europe.
• 02:19 — Historical context of workweek duration in the US.
• 03:30 — Employees’ demands for flexibility and labor market implications.
• 04:24 — Examples of US firms experimenting with a shorter week.
• 05:21 — International experiments and outcomes (Iceland, France, Spain, Japan).
• 07:02 — Challenges faced by companies trying the four-day week, including a detailed case of a failed pilot.
• 08:55 — Advice for organizations: Prioritization and careful planning for possible success.

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Memorable Moments

• The Iceland study is highlighted as a catalyst for renewed international interest, with notably positive results regarding productivity and worker satisfaction.
• The cautionary tale from Alter Agents emphasizes that simply shortening the week without thoughtful adjustment can harm team morale.
• Patrick Thomas underscores throughout that customization and careful rollout are key to making alternate workweek schedules viable.

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This episode is a well-rounded, current discussion of the pros, cons, and practical considerations surrounding shorter workweeks, enriched by global perspectives and real company case studies.

Transcript

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[Charlie Turner]

Here's your money briefing for Friday, July 30th. I'm Charlie Turner for the Wall Street Journal. Should we ditch the 5 day 40 hour work week? The traditional workweek is under pressure because of changes wrought by COVID 19.

[Patrick Thomas]

The experience of the pandemic and working from home has beginning to question all the facetime requirements of the workplace and that's been kind of the biggest driver here.

[Charlie Turner]

Our Patrick Thomas talks about renewed calls for a more abbreviated week and how some companies have already made the move. That's after the break

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[Charlie Turner]

Could the five day 40 hour work week become a thing of the past? Some companies are trying out a four day work week on the belief that a shorter schedule could be a better fit for workers who've had to make so many adjustments to their personal and professional lives because of the pandemic and working from home. A shorter week is already being used or experimented with in some European countries but but there are questions about whether it could be widely adopted in the US and companies will have to make some changes in order to implement a four day week. For more, let's bring in our reporter Patrick Thomas. Patrick, thanks for joining us.

[Patrick Thomas]

Thanks so much for having me, Patrick.

[Charlie Turner]

A shorter workweek has been tried before in the US during previous decades there were some failed attempts to make it the law, but now there seems to be a renewed push for a four day week. Tell us why the traditional five day work week is under new pressure.

[Patrick Thomas]

Well, it all starts with a pandemic. I mean the tradition of the five day, the 40 hour work week is under pressure after really COVID 19 kind of calls into question a lot of the a lot of our long held beliefs about the structure and nature of work. You know, companies have been experimenting with remote work and hybrid technologies and really trying to find new ways to give employees more flexibility. The stresses of the pandemic have had us Talking more about burnout and mental health. So it's the experience of the pandemic and working from home has been beginning to question all the facetime requirements of the workplace. And that's been kind of the biggest driver here. And this is a topic that's come up before in the past century. It's not entirely new, but it's really struggled to gain traction. During the Great Depression there were a lot of talk about if the 30 hour work week was going to be the standard, but those calls always got dropped. It just never quite entered the mainstream. So right now we're seeing them resurface again for the first time in decades.

[Charlie Turner]

Well, how are workers driving the shift to a shorter week? What demands are they making on their employers?

[Patrick Thomas]

We're seeing a huge push by employees right now for flexibility. The need for either working from home arrangements, hybrid arrangements, just having extra time off, just the ability to have that work life balance that many feel they could not get during the pandemic because they're either always logged in remotely. The whole stress of the past 18 or so months have just been incredible on people and the burnout that people are experiencing. Employees are asking for better work life balance and employers are also willing to give it to them because of the labor market crunch we're seeing in employee. Employers are really in need of talent. They're more willing to listen to these conversations to recruit top talent than especially for hybrid arrangements. And now some are thinking about this as a possible recruitment tool.

[Charlie Turner]

Which companies are experimenting with a four day work week. Is it small companies or larger ones?

[Patrick Thomas]

Well, so far in the US at least, we've seen a lot of smaller privately held firms. Like there's been some nonprofit in Denver, Kickstarter, which is a crowdfunding platform in Brooklyn. It just announced it was going, it's about a 90 person company, said it was going to do a pilot starting next year after it had time to kind of figure out the details and how it wanted to disperse the extra day off for employees. We've seen the company wild that did it a couple of years ago and has found a way to make it work for them. It's really been these smaller private firms that have kind of gone on and off with trials and trying to make them work, trying to make these work. But it still hasn't entered quite the mainstream for larger US Companies yet. That's still pretty new.

[Charlie Turner]

You've written about how companies and governments overseas are experimenting with a shorter week. Tell us what's going on there.

[Patrick Thomas]

Well, one country in Particular that kind of got a lot of the conversation started again, especially on social media, was in Iceland. There was a study that was recently published with a group of about 2,500 employees who were working shorter hours during the week. And the study came out and showed that they were just as productive as before and had better work life balance, had better mental health, improved their productivity and reduced stress. That kind of got a lot of the conversation going. That was in Iceland. And there's been a big push from the Union of Municipal Workers there to work 36 hours a week as opposed to 40. And that's not new we've seen outside of the US. France about 20 years ago went to a 35 hour work week for government employees to try and recruit more. Spain recently said in March that they were going to do something similar. So while some people question whether it actually does help these governments recruit more employees, some are experimenting with it or have fully committed to trying it. In the case of Iceland, there was a full. They commissioned a full study to look at it and the results were pretty positive for them. And then we've seen some larger companies try pilots in other places. There was a trial from Microsoft in Japan two years ago, but that only went for five weeks and it ended. But we've seen some other markets try some sort of pilots in the past.

[Charlie Turner]

Why is a shorter work week not for every company? What happened with companies that tried the experiment and ditched it?

[Patrick Thomas]

Well, broadly implementing a four day work week's just saying, hey, this is, this is cool, I want to try. This doesn't necessarily work. Some of the experts we talked to said this requires a lot of planning and a lot of forethought in terms of how are you going to spread the day out? Are you going to spread the day out? Is it everybody in your company to get the same day off? Are you going to get Monday or Friday off? Do you get to pick the day off? One company we talked to is in Alter Agents, it's a market research consultancy. They tried a four day workweek last summer to help manage people's schedules during the pandemic. But problems quickly arose during that 10 weeks. It required extra effort from employees to bring colleagues up to speed on the day they were out. People who were volunteering to make meetings and come in on their scheduled day off. It led to more resentment among employees who were willing to turn off their email on the day off and those who weren't, who was working harder. It was almost more stressful for employees to think about how to Factor in this extra day off and as the CEO put it, it really frayed the team culture. So broadly implementing, and I should note that they found an alternative solution where on top of their normal benefits, they just gave everybody an extra day off during the month to help with mental health. But in terms of just broadly implementing the policy, companies say there requires a lot more thought. You have to think about the industry you're in. If you're dealing with clients, it's a logistical challenge and it requires everybody to kind of work together and find the proper what works for their particular company. And broadly, it's a little bit more difficult just to everyone take Friday off. So it doesn't quite work.

[Charlie Turner]

Well, what changes should a company make in order for something such as a four day work week to succeed?

[Patrick Thomas]

Yeah, some of the workplace consultants and CEOs who have done this said what they have to do is you have to figure out how to prioritize your schedule better. You have to cut certain things out, you know, the meeting you have to go through, kind of your daily schedule, your teams at your company schedule and figure out what meetings do we not. Do we need? What do we don't? What don't we need? What can we prioritize in the day? How can we be more effective? How can we make a 32 hour workweek work when we don't have eight extra hours? Right. What things can be chopped? How do we keep people off social media? Maybe like, what are some of the things that we can make people more effective? And that's what employers have to think about is how can we optimize our day? What things can we cut out? Do we have extra time that we really don't need? That's really at the heart of this for a lot of places. And that's why it requires some careful planning in terms of how to do it successfully.

[Charlie Turner]

Wall Street Journal reporter Patrick Thomas. Patrick, thanks for being with us.

[Patrick Thomas]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Charlie Turner]

And that's your money briefing. I'm Charlie Turner filling in for JR Whelan for the Wall Street Journal.

[Small Business Owner]

Access to affordable credit helps me pay my employees, but I don't really need it.

[Retail Industry Representative]

Infliction is killing me, but who cares? Big retailers are making record profits. That's why we support the Durbin Marshall credit card bill.

[Small Business Owner]

See, banks and credit unions help small businesses make payroll. This bill would cut the vital resources

[Retail Industry Representative]

they need while increasing megastore profits. They deserve it, don't they?

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

Tell Congress, stop the Durbin Marshall money grab for corporate megastores paid for by the Electronic Payments Coalition.