How to Avoid Being "Ghosted" by Hiring Managers

Summary

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WSJ Your Money Briefing — Episode Summary

"How to Avoid Being 'Ghosted' by Hiring Managers"

Date: October 12, 2021
Host: J.R. Whalen (The Wall Street Journal)
Guests:

• Katherine Dill (WSJ Workplace Reporter)
• Keith Wolf (CEO, Resume Spice)
• Ashley Watkins (Job Search Coach)
• Keith Ferrazzi (Executive Coach)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, WSJ reporter J.R. Whalen sits down with workplace reporter Katherine Dill and shares insights from career experts at the recent WSJ Jobs Summit. The central theme: Why job seekers often don’t hear back after submitting their resumes—and how to increase their chances of receiving a response. The discussion dives into resume best practices, persistent yet professional follow-ups, leveraging applicant tracking systems, and maintaining a positive outlook during the job search.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Current Job Market: Turbulence & Opportunity

• Extraordinary opportunity and turbulence:

  “Coming out of some of the tumult of the past year and a half in the job market, there is extraordinary opportunity for a lot of job seekers right now, and some of them are finding uncommon leverage. But there’s also an extraordinary amount of turbulence as well.”
  — Katherine Dill (02:22)

Resume Strategies for the Modern Job Search

• Resumes screened by software:

  • Most resumes are filtered by applicant tracking systems (ATS) before being seen by a human.
  • Word choice is critical—mirror job description keywords directly.
  • Example: If the job uses “consumer” or “client,” don't default to “customer.”

  • "Your choice of words is going to be exceptionally important."
    — Katherine Dill (02:54)

• Tailoring for each job:

  • A single resume won’t fit all applications; tailored resumes for each role yield stronger results.

  • "You do want to be tailoring your resume to each job that you apply for... it does seem to yield a much stronger payoff."
    — Katherine Dill (04:06)

• Objective statements—skip them:

  • They're often counterproductive unless perfectly matched to the role.

  • “If you’re putting that in, and I read that unless it matches exactly what I’m looking for... that’s a great excuse just to take you out of the pack.”
    — Keith Wolf (04:35)

  • “So you do not want to put an objective statement. Again, going back to the recruiting days, our recruiting firm recruiters love objective statements because you’re making our job easy.”
    — Keith Wolf (04:35)

• Focus on your work, not your former employer:

  • Especially for those from startups or small businesses, it's more effective to highlight personal achievements and skills rather than over-explaining the company’s background.
  • Recruiters can research companies on their own if necessary.

  • "...it’s actually better to focus your resume entirely on your own work... if they need to know more, they can Google the companies that you’ve worked for."
    — Ashley Watkins (as paraphrased by Katherine Dill, 05:12)

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Navigating "Ghosting" by Hiring Managers

• Not hearing back is normal:
  • Delayed responses or no reply at all are common and shouldn’t discourage applicants.
  • Persistence is necessary, but so is patience.

  • “There’s lots of reasons why a job seeker might not hear back...and many of those reasons are just baked into the process. But the overwhelming message is that you shouldn’t become discouraged by this.”
    — Katherine Dill (06:08)

• Professional follow-up:
  • Following up is acceptable and sometimes appreciated; the tone should center on the company’s needs, not just the applicant’s.

  • “Organizations deeply appreciate persistence as long as your persistence is generous. So if your persistence is, 'What about me?', that’s not generous. If your persistence is, 'I’ve been thinking about your company... had a few ideas...' those are generous acts of reaching out.”
    — Keith Ferrazzi (06:53)

• Know when to move on:
  • Always pursue multiple opportunities—never put all your hopes in one basket.
  • Stay in touch with brief, positive “pings” but keep options open.

  • “When’s the right time to move on? The answer is always. Always move on. Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket ever.”
    — Keith Ferrazzi (07:27)

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Emotional Resilience & Mindset

• Maintain positivity:
  • Projecting a positive and desirable attitude in follow-ups is crucial—employers want to work with upbeat candidates, not those expressing frustration.

  • “It’s really important to remember that you want to be conveying as positive an attitude as possible, that you’re someone that a new employer wants to work with.”
    — Katherine Dill (08:20)

• Human touch behind the process:
  • Hiring managers have their own lives and challenges; delays are not always about the candidate.

  • "You never know what’s going on inside of the hiring person’s life... so you should always ask yourself, maybe every once in a while, just ping them."
    — Keith Ferrazzi (07:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On tailoring your resume:

  “Look how different keywords are utilized within the job description. It’s almost like you’ve been given the answer to the test.”
  — Keith Wolf (03:35)

• On persistence in follow-ups:

  “Persistence with generosity is fine.”
  — Keith Ferrazzi (07:18)

• On moving on:

  "Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket ever. Make sure that you’ve always got a number of plates spinning during this process."
  — Keith Ferrazzi (07:27)

• On positivity and perseverance:

  "Feelings of frustration or discouragement on the job hunt... that’s all perfectly understandable, and it’s a classic response to the hurdles of job seeking."
  — Katherine Dill (08:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:22] — State of the job market: leverage & turbulence
• [02:54-04:06] — Resume writing for ATS and tailoring for each job
• [04:35] — The danger of objective statements on resumes
• [05:12] — Focusing the resume on personal experience, not on company descriptions
• [06:08] — Normalizing slow or absent responses from employers
• [06:53-07:18] — Following up with generosity & persistence
• [07:27] — When and how to move on from unresponsive applications
• [08:20] — Maintaining a positive outlook and professional demeanor

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Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive roadmap for job seekers frustrated with lack of employer responses. The key takeaways: customize every resume, avoid unnecessary objective statements, focus on personal achievements, follow up with generosity, keep multiple opportunities in play, and above all, maintain positivity even in the face of silence. As the market continues to fluctuate, these principles help candidates remain competitive, persistent, and professional.

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Transcript

[Small Business Owner]

Access to affordable credit helps me pay my employees, but I don't really need it.

[Retail Industry Representative]

Inflation is killing me, but who cares? Big retailers are making record profits. That's why we support the Durbin Marshall credit card bill.

[Small Business Owner]

See banks and credit unions help small businesses make payroll. This bill would cut the vital resources

[Retail Industry Representative]

they need while increasing megastore profits. They deserve it, don't they?

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

Tell Congress, stop the Durbin Marshall money grab for corporate megastores paid for by the Electronic Payments Coalition.

[J.R. Whalen]

Here's your money briefing for Tuesday, October 12th. I'm J.R. whalen for the Wall Street Journal. Our week long series on the challenges of navigating the job search process continues today. How to increase the chances of getting a response after sending in a resume. Searching for a job can feel like a job itself. It can be frustrating, especially if you're left waiting and waiting for a response from hiring managers. Some people never hear back.

[Katherine Dill]

This is a pretty typical part of the process, even if it is sometimes sort of maddening to job seekers. There's lots of reasons why a job seeker might not hear back about a role right away.

[J.R. Whalen]

So how do you prevent being, you know, ghosted by the HR department? Coming up, we'll talk with workplace reporter Katherine Dill about that and hear from career experts who spoke at this month's WSJ Jobs Summit about how to get the attention of hiring managers without being a pest. That's after the break.

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

This episode is brought to you by Charles Schwab. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. [e-mail] Washingtonwise.

[J.R. Whalen]

So you found a job you're interested in. Seems like a good fit. It's at a good company. But after you put in your application crickets, many will hear back from companies, maybe to schedule an interview or maybe even a rejection. But there's also a chance they won't hear back at all. So how can job seekers avoid being ghosted by companies? Our workplace reporter Katherine Dill has been covering that topic and it came up several times at the recent WSJ Job Summit. Katherine, thanks for being with us.

[Katherine Dill]

It's my pleasure.

[J.R. Whalen]

So, Kathryn, you know, it seems like the job search is as much in exercise and perseverance as it is in patience.

[Katherine Dill]

Yes, this is something that's always true, but it's exceptionally true right now. I think coming out of some of the tumult of the past year and a half in the job market, there is extraordinary opportunity for a lot of job seekers right now, and some of them are finding uncommon leverage. But there's also an extraordinary amount of turbulence as well.

[J.R. Whalen]

Okay, so let's start with what's usually the first step for any job seeker, and that's preparing a resume. It's how hiring managers see someone's full slate of experience. But resume writing isn't as simple as it was, say, 10 years ago.

[Katherine Dill]

No, that's true. Resumes, certainly right now, it's more likely than not will be screened and potentially screened out by applicant tracking software used by companies that resumes are fed through before they're ever even seen by a human being, typically. And so your choice of words is going to be exceptionally important. You know, a great example is if the job description uses the word consumer or client, don't use the word customer instead on your resume to describe your own experience.

[J.R. Whalen]

At this year's WSJ Jobs Summit, Keith Wolf, the CEO of Resume Spice, said applicants should pay close attention to the job listing.

[Keith Wolf]

Yeah, I mean, the best way is to look at the job description, look how different keywords are utilized within the job description. It's almost like you've been given the answer to the test. Right. So, you know, I wouldn't obsess about the applicant tracking system. If you're wondering how many folks use it, you can just assume every company is at this point. If you, it used to just be the largest companies, now it's 90 plus percent of the Fortune 500s. And even smaller companies are using them because they're so easy to use.

[J.R. Whalen]

And so, Katherine, this probably means that just having one resume won't be enough because it won't fit every job.

[Katherine Dill]

No. And that's advice that stands in any type of market. You do want to be tailoring your resume to each job that you apply for, which of course is a great deal of work when you're applying potentially to dozens of jobs. But it does seem to yield a, a much stronger payoff.

[J.R. Whalen]

Now, Keith Wolf also raised an interesting point about objective statements that people often put at the top of their resumes. And he says maybe they're not helping job candidates reach their goal.

[Keith Wolf]

I know as a hiring manager, if you're putting that in, and I read that unless it matches exactly what I'm looking for in that role, that's a great excuse just to take you out of the pack. Right. So in this case, it's a perfect example seeking a full time engineer or intern position. Which one is it? Right. So that to me tells Me, they're not clear on what they want. A great excuse to take them out of the pile. So you do not want to put an objective statement. Again, going back to the recruiting days, our recruiting firm recruiters love objective statements because you're making our job easy.

[J.R. Whalen]

So Catherine, maybe less is more on a resume.

[Katherine Dill]

Yes, I think that's exactly right. Your resume is where you're going to want to demonstrate really the breadth and depth of your specific experience and you can get more into the narrative and the storytelling of that. In your cover letter and the related correspondence at the Job Summit, Ashley Watkins, who's a job search coach, pointed out that a common mistake or a misstep that's sort of more common among folks who've worked at small businesses or startups is to spend too much time on their resume describing the companies that they've worked for in the hope of lending more context to potential future employers. But she says that it's actually better to focus your resume entirely on your own work and the breadth of your skills and experience and that a recruiter who's getting paid to look at your resume, if they need to know more, they can Google the companies that you've worked for. That's really on them.

[J.R. Whalen]

Now, should a candidate worry if they don't hear back right away?

[Katherine Dill]

No, they shouldn't. In fact, this is a pretty typical part of the process, even if it is sometimes sort of maddening to job seekers. There's lots of reasons why a job seeker might not hear back about a role right away, and many of those reasons are just baked into the process. But the overwhelming message is that you shouldn't become discouraged by this. It's definitely to be expected and there's no harm certainly in following up. You want to maintain a balance of professionalism and persistence, but certainly there's no reason to think the worst if you don't hear back right away.

[J.R. Whalen]

Now, some job seekers who feel they're getting radio silence might feel inclined to send a follow up email or a couple of emails. At the Job Summit, executive coach Keith Ferrazi said that's okay as long as you frame your follow ups the right way.

[Keith Ferrazi]

I think that organizations deeply appreciate persistence as long as your persistence is generous. So if your persistence is what about me? What about me? What about me? Then that's not generous. If your persistence is I've been thinking about your company, I've been researching a little bit more about your company. I've had a few ideas about the conversation we had, et cetera. Those are generous Acts of reaching out.

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

Right.

[Keith Ferrazi]

So persistence with generosity is fine.

[J.R. Whalen]

But Keith Ferrazi also says that eventually the time will come when it's time to shift focus to other possibilities.

[Keith Ferrazi]

When's the right time to move on? The answer is always. Always move on. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket ever. Make sure that you've always got a number of plates spinning during this process. So, you know, you might decide to ramp down this particular area, but who knows? Here's the thing. You never know what's going on to inside of the hiring person's life. They could have just had a birth of a new child, that is, and that's taken up their time. Their foster son might be on the rails and having a challenge. So you should always ask yourself, maybe every once in a while, just ping them. I call it pinging, staying in touch. Every once in a while, just ping them. A generous message saying, hey, I just want to let you know, I really enjoyed the conversation and I would always love to be in touch. I consistently think about your organization, what a great place it would be to work, and if there's anything I can do to be of support or I'd like to be.

[J.R. Whalen]

But Katherine, the last thing a job seeker wants is to be seen as a pest.

[Katherine Dill]

It is certainly. And the key is for job seekers to stay really positive and remain really focused on the objective, which is to get hired for a job and, you know, feelings of frustration or feelings of discouragement on the job hunt. That's all perfectly understandable, and it's a classic response to the hurdles of job seeking. But it's really important to remember that you want to be conveying as positive an attitude as possible that you're someone that a new employer wants, wants to work with. And so that's something job seekers should stay really focused on as they approach follow up communications with a potential employer.

[J.R. Whalen]

All right, that's Wall Street Journal reporter Katherine Dill. Catherine, thank you so much for being with us.

[Katherine Dill]

Thanks for having me.

[J.R. Whalen]

And Catherine will be back with us tomorrow. As we look at the challenges facing recent college graduates in the workforce, I

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

think the first thing that job seekers need to keep in mind is that virtual is very much here to stay. So make sure that you are comfortable in a virtual setting. Make sure that you have a good setup, make sure that you have good light, make sure you have good connection. Those are kind of the basics.

[J.R. Whalen]

That's tomorrow on your Money briefing. I'm J.R. whalen for the Wall Street Journal.

[Small Business Owner]

Access to affordable credit helps me pay my employees, but I don't really need it.

[Retail Industry Representative]

Inflation is killing me, but who cares? Big retailers are making record profits. That's why we support the Durbin Marshall credit card bill.

[Small Business Owner]

See, banks and credit unions help small businesses make payroll. This bill would cut the vital resources

[Retail Industry Representative]

they need while increasing megastore profits. They deserve it, don't they?

[Electronic Payments Coalition Spokesperson]

Tell Congress, stop the Durbin Marshall money grab for corporate megastores paid for by the Electronic Payments Coalition.