Networking Without Feeling 'Dirty'

Summary

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WSJ Your Money Briefing

Episode Title: Networking Without Feeling 'Dirty'

Date: September 24, 2021

Guest: Dorie Clark, Management Consultant & Author
Host: J.R. Whalen

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the pervasive discomfort many feel about networking, especially the fear of coming across as opportunistic or "dirty." Host J.R. Whalen interviews Dorie Clark, a management consultant and executive education professor, about how to reframe networking as genuine relationship-building, combat mental barriers, and navigate the new challenges brought on by pandemic-era constraints.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Discomfort Around Networking (02:29 – 03:19)

• Root Causes of Unease:

  • Many people “psych themselves out” about networking, associating it with being manipulative or transactional.
  • There's worry about appearing as a "taker" or someone using others solely for personal gain.

  Notable Quote:

  "In many cases, networking actually makes people feel dirty, feel like users, they feel uncomfortable, they don't know what to say, they don't know what to do, and they don't want to be that guy that's handing everybody their business cards and making everyone else around them squirm."
  — Dorie Clark (02:38)

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2. Shifting the Networking Mindset (03:23 – 04:08)

• Long-term Over Short-term:

  • Effective networking is not about “short-term transactions.”
  • The goal should be building lasting professional friendships—connections without immediate expectations or explicit asks.

  Notable Quote:

  “Networking, when done right, is not at all about short-term transactions...what we want from successful networking is people who are building long-term relationships.”
  — Dorie Clark (03:23)

• Reframing for Comfort:

  • People are more comfortable when networking is about “getting to know interesting people,” not immediate business deals.

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3. Who Struggles Most with Networking (04:08 – 05:27)

• Junior Employees' Unique Challenges:

  • Research suggests less senior workers feel extra awkward, worrying they have “nothing to give” in return.
  • This leads to feeling that the relationship is unequal, or that they appear needy.

  Notable Quote:

  “If you feel like you're a taker, then you're of course worried you’re going to look like a taker.”
  — Dorie Clark (04:37)

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4. Practical Ways to Contribute in Networking (05:32 – 08:11)

• Informational Interviews:

  • Safe method for junior professionals, as these are “not pressuring for a job” but simply gathering insights.
  • Only ask if you have a “warm enough connection.”

• Alternative Ways to Add Value:

  • Offer time or “sweat equity.” Example: volunteering as a board secretary for an industry group provides exposure and visibility (06:34).
  • Leverage expertise from non-professional interests (e.g., running marathons) if that aligns with a senior person's hobby—“You have become a valuable resource” (07:06).
  • Assume leadership roles in professional or alumni associations ("membership chair" or "coordinator")—these provide legitimate reasons and status to reach out to senior professionals.

  Notable Quote:

  "You're not going to out-connect the person who's 20 years senior to you and knows everybody in the field. But there are things that you can offer."
  — Dorie Clark (05:54)

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5. Everyday and Informal Networking (08:11 – 09:35)

• Networking Happens Everywhere:

  • Opportunities exist outside formal events: at your kid's sports match, on a plane, or through work projects.

  Repeated Insight:

  “Networking is just a fancy way of saying making friends with people with whom you are or may do business in the future.”
  — Dorie Clark (02:52 and 08:23)

• Authenticity Is Key:

  • Shift focus from “what can I get” to “making authentic connections”—this relieves pressure and helps build genuine relationships.

  Notable Quote:

  “If we can just focus on building authentic connections and not worrying about the future downstream business opportunities, that's when things take care of themselves.”
  — Dorie Clark (09:13)

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6. Networking in a Pandemic & Remote Era (09:35 – 11:47)

• Dramatic Changes:

  • The pandemic disrupted traditional networking—industry mixers and conferences disappeared; remote work reduced spontaneous connections.

• Creative Solutions:

  • Host virtual gatherings, like Zoom cocktail parties, to bring professionals together from anywhere.
  • Ask well-connected friends for introductions, giving context about the types of contacts you're seeking to make the introduction easier and more targeted.

  Notable Quote:

  “If you have a tight hour or a tight 90 minutes...and you can bring together people who would legitimately be interested in meeting each other...that can actually be very worthwhile and people will thank you for being a host.”
  — Dorie Clark (10:32)

• Low-Stakes One-on-Ones:

  • Suggest brief, casual Zoom meetings, brokered by a mutual friend for comfort and safety.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “One of the most interesting facets of the research...is that some of the people disproportionately affected by squeamishness around networking are more junior employees.”
  — Dorie Clark (04:14)

• “Maybe you have a lot of experience with running marathons. There might be someone much more senior, but if that’s something they’re interested in, then you have become a valuable resource.”
  — Dorie Clark (07:03)

• “Opportunities are more scarce to meet new people. And so that requires a certain dose of creativity.”
  — Dorie Clark (10:06)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:29 — Why networking feels 'dirty'
• 03:23 — Reframing networking as long-term relationship-building
• 04:14 — Why junior employees struggle most
• 05:32 — How to add value if you have less experience
• 06:34 — Example of volunteering (board secretary)
• 08:23 — Informal and everyday networking opportunities
• 09:35 — How the pandemic changed networking
• 10:32 — Virtual events and other creative solutions

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode maintains a conversational, supportive tone, encouraging listeners to see networking as relationship-building, not self-promotion. Dorie Clark demystifies and destigmatizes the process, providing practical, actionable solutions for listeners at any career stage.

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Transcript

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

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[J.R. Whalen]

Here's your money briefing for Friday, September 24th. I'm J.R. whalen for the Wall Street Journal. Schmoozing, meeting and greeting. Whatever you call it, networking can be the catalyst for finding the right job or getting to know the right people in your field. And yet the idea of talking to people, something we do every day, can start to be intimidating once there's something at stake in the conversation.

[Dorie Clark]

People psych themselves out about networking all the time. There are a lot of mental blocks and mental barriers that people have about it. But the truth is networking is just a fancy way of saying making friends with people with whom you are or may do business in the future.

[J.R. Whalen]

So how can you break down that barrier that could be standing between you and a potentially valuable contact? And how can you work around challenges to networking that have come up during the pandemic? Management consultant Dorie Clark will be here to talk about that after the break.

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[Dorie Clark]

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[J.R. Whalen]

They say it's not what you know, but who you know that can be key to landing the right job. And networking can be just what job seekers, or even someone who just wants to add to their contacts list, need to get to know the right people. But why don't more of us do it? What are we afraid of? Dorie Clark teaches executive education at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and Columbia University's Graduate School of Business. She wrote about the value of networking for the WSJ, and she joins me now. Dorie, thank you so much for being with us.

[Dorie Clark]

Hey, J.R. great to be here.

[J.R. Whalen]

So you know, Dorie, networking can be a significant key toward landing a job or at least getting to know people in an industry. So why aren't people hesitant to do it?

[Dorie Clark]

Well we know it's good for us. But it turns out the research shows that one of the biggest obstacles is that in many cases, networking actually makes people feel dirty, feel like users, they feel uncomfortable, they don't know what to say, they don't know what to do, and they don't want to be that guy that's handing everybody their business cards and making everyone else around them squirm. And so as a result, they typically do nothing. The other thing that people are very concerned about in networking is understandably, they don't want to be perceived as a taker, like someone who is just after one thing, a mercenary networker that only wants to get the the job or only wants to get the investment.

[J.R. Whalen]

Okay, but networking doesn't necessarily have to mean straight up asking for a job, right?

[Dorie Clark]

No, absolutely. Networking, when done right, is not at all about short term transactions. In fact, that's the kind of networking that really gives the whole endeavor a bad name. Ultimately, what we want from successful networking is people who are building long term relationships. And I might not necessarily know how you can help me, I might not necessarily know how I can help you, but as long as we are entering into it with a belief that you're an interesting person, you're doing good things, I want to get to know you. That's a kind of relationship that's actually much closer to a professional friendship. And fortunately, research shows that people feel much more comfortable engaging in networking when it's framed like that.

[J.R. Whalen]

Is this squeamishness about networking true for all workers or is it really only certain groups?

[Dorie Clark]

One of the most interesting facets of the research that was conducted by Francesca Gino and her colleagues at Harvard Business School is that some of the people disproportionately affected by squeamishness around networking are more junior employees. Now you might say, well, that makes sense, because of course, the best networkers rise to the top. And that could be true. But one of the interesting readings of the research is that junior employees also have something in common, which is that they typically have fewer resources to be able to contribute to the relationship. And so if you are someone who is networking with a colleague and that colleague has more connections, has access to bigger budgets, what could you give them? You may feel stymied. And that situation is not going to change anytime soon. If you feel like you're a taker, then you're of course worried you're going to look like a taker. But the good news is that there are some things that more junior colleagues or Junior employees can do to begin to thoughtfully level the playing field so that they can give back and create relationships that aren't just about them using or taking from other people.

[J.R. Whalen]

Yeah. How can people gain more experience or at least gain more knowledge about the ins and outs of an industry?

[Dorie Clark]

Well, certainly when it comes to networking, we've all been told by our college career counselors that informational interviews are a good thing. And they are. The good thing, actually, about informational interviews is that upfront you are being very clear that aside from the gift of someone's time, you are not going to be pressuring them for a job. You are not going to be making some kind of a parasitic ask at the end of the endeavor. You're just gathering information. So that's typically not a bad thing to ask for if you have a warm enough connection that you think the other person wouldn't mind. But when it comes to being the junior party in a relationship and thinking about things you can contribute, one of the policies that I try to follow is understanding that the currency in which you can contribute is probably different than the currency in which the other person can contribute to you. You're not going to out connect the person who's 20 years senior to you and knows everybody in the field. But there are things that you can offer. Certainly is sweat equity and time, certainly. In my Wall Street Journal piece, I profiled one young woman who actually made significant connections in her industry because she volunteered to be the board secretary, basically taking notes and taking minutes of a women's professional group in her industry. But it gave her exposure to a lot of senior people. So that's one way. Another is for you to think carefully about areas where you have some expertise you can contribute. And it probably is different than than the profession that you're engaged in. Maybe you have a lot of experience with running and running marathons. There might be someone much more senior to you, but you know more about running. And if that's something they're interested in, then you have become a valuable resource. Another way that you can feel more confident in making connections with people that are more senior to you is by getting involved in a leadership role in various professional or alumni associations. And part of the reason is, is that if you are both members of an organization, then you're legitimately peers. It could be that you're both members of the such and such college alumni group or a professional association. And as it happens, if you're taking on a leadership role, especially one like membership chair or coordinator, that actually gives you Carte blanche to reach out to almost anyone that you want to speak with and do it from a position of some authority. It can begin to level the playing field between you and someone who, within your company or within your field, may have many years more experience than you do.

[J.R. Whalen]

You know, this process might sound easy to some, but people sometimes psych themselves out. And what I mean by that here is networking can occur in almost any setting, right? It doesn't necessarily have to be something more formal.

[Dorie Clark]

People psych themselves out about networking all the time. There are a lot of mental blocks and mental barriers that people have about it. But the truth is, networking is just a fancy way of saying making friends with people with whom you are or may do business in the future. Ultimately, whether you are watching on the sidelines at your kids sports match, whether you are chatting on a plane next to someone, or whether you are meeting somebody at a conference or because of a work project, there are a million ways that you can begin to connect with people. And ultimately the best way to think about it is that you are making a friend with whom you would enjoy doing business and who it would be a pleasure for you to get to spend more time with. If that's the attitude that you have. Rather than thinking, oh my gosh, what can I get from them? Or oh my gosh, are they worried that I want to get something from them? Those are the thoughts that have us psych ourselves out. If we can just focus on building authentic connections and not worrying about the future downstream business opportunities, that's when things take care of themselves and you can actually build positive connections.

[J.R. Whalen]

You know, Dori, one thing that has changed the playing field is the pandemic. And before COVID it was easy enough to meet people at a reception or some kind of a mixer among people from different companies. But doing all this, or a lot of it over zoom these days might make it seem impossible or ineffective. So how can people make it work?

[Dorie Clark]

Certainly the pandemic changed networking fundamentally. In the early days, conferences were getting canceled left and right, people stopped traveling, and the ways that we were originally used to networking and making new connections really went up in smoke. For the better part of a year now, in small, tentative ways, people are beginning to gather again. But it's still certainly not back to full steam. And it's true that remote work has made meeting new people much harder for most professionals. We have doubled down on connections with our team and with people that we're already working with, but the opportunities are more scarce to meet new people. And so that requires a certain dose of creativity. One strategy that I've personally employed is hosting zoom cocktail parties. And the great news about that, as compared to having a dinner in Yorktown, is that you can invite people from around the country or from around the world. And if you have a tight hour or a tight 90 minutes, especially if you can bring together people who would legitimately be interested in meeting each other, perhaps people from the same company or the same industry who would have a lot to talk about, that can actually be very worthwhile and people will thank you for being a host. But even if you don't feel comfortable or prepared being a host, there are possibilities that you can do. You just have to put a little more effort into it. For instance, you could reach out to well connected friends and ask them, do you have colleagues or contacts that you think would be interesting for me to meet? It's even better if you can actually put some guideposts around it by saying, I'd like to meet people who are in this industry or people who are working in, in this particular job role to help them visualize it and ask them if they'd be willing to make an email introduction. And you can then suggest a one on one zoom call with people. That's a very low stakes way of connecting. But if a friend is brokering the introduction, most people will say yes.

[J.R. Whalen]

All right. That's branding and marketing consultant Dorie Clark. Dorie, it's been great having you on

[Dorie Clark]

the show, J.R. thank you so much.

[J.R. Whalen]

And that's your Money briefing. I'm J.R. whalen for the Wall Street Journal.

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