Why Job-Hopping Isn't Such a Good Idea

Summary

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Podcast Summary: WSJ Your Money Briefing

Episode: Why Job-Hopping Isn't Such a Good Idea

Host: J.R. Whalen
Guest: Dr. Natalia Peart, psychologist and performance consultant
Date: March 11, 2019

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the timely question of whether frequent job-hopping is truly beneficial, even in a robust job market favoring employees. Host J.R. Whalen welcomes Dr. Natalia Peart to explore the implications of switching jobs often, and how to approach career decisions with a strategic, long-term mindset rather than a reactive or opportunistic one.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Strong Labor Market: Context and Temptation to Job-Hop

• Job Seekers’ Advantage: The U.S. unemployment rate is at a 50-year low, giving workers significant leverage to pursue new job opportunities and higher salaries. (02:12)
• Temptation: Many are enticed to switch jobs to secure pay increases or improved conditions, but there are underlying career considerations to heed.

2. The Pitfall of Drifting: Shifting vs. Drifting in Your Career

• Dr. Peart’s Core Message:
  • “Our goal isn't at the end of our career to say, how many jobs have we racked up? Our goal has to be that at the end of all of that, did we get where we wanted to.” (02:44)
  • “We have always got to see ourselves as the boss of our own career.” (03:31)
  • Shifting: Deliberately making moves that serve a broader career plan or vision.
  • Drifting: Reactively switching jobs based merely on external lures—“oh, I saw a new job tomorrow and…let me go ahead and apply for that,” or “they’re paying $2 more, I should go there.” (03:29–04:40)
  • Advice: Use the good job market to support a larger vision, not just to collect more jobs.

3. The Rise of Freelancing: New Norms and Career Flexibility

• Changing Stigma: Having multiple jobs or freelancing on the side no longer carries a stigma. (05:09)
• Freelancing as Strategy:
  • Freelancing helps supplement income, explore new fields, and bridge to new full-time roles.
  • “Freelancing is a great way to bridge…It’s a great way for you to also supplement.” (05:38)
  • Workers are less likely to expect (or desire) a single lifelong career, making multiple roles more typical and accepted.

4. Smart Career Moves for Younger Workers

• Playbook for the 20s and 30s:
  • Understanding Cycles: Good and bad labor markets are cyclical; prepare for both. (06:29)
  • Know Your Value: Focus on skills, talents, and what you contribute, not just job titles.
  • Building Skills: Every role—main job, side job, freelance—should add to your skillset or market value.
  • Negotiation: Look beyond salary; negotiate for new positions, educational opportunities, or broader responsibilities.
  • Stay Informed: “Always be in the market looking around so that I know…my best competitive advantage.” (07:26)
  • Networking and Opportunity: Regularly leverage networks and be open to emerging opportunities aligned with your goals.
• Memorable Advice:
  • “Always know what your end goal is in mind. Always know the multiple ways in which you can get there, and always be the first person to be able to put together what your value is.” (08:23)

5. Be Prepared for Market Shifts

• Strategic Readiness:
  • “Always be prepared and be ready for the economy or the labor market to take a hard corner, because it’s done it before.” (08:52)
  • Control Your Future: Focus on both present opportunities and long-term stability—“it’s about controlling your future. It’s not just about taking advantage of today.” (08:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On job-hopping and long-term goals:
  • “Our goal isn't at the end of our career to say, how many jobs have we racked up? Our goal has to be that at the end of all of that, did we get where we wanted to.”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (02:44)
• On shifting vs. drifting:
  • “You should be thinking to yourself, what is my bigger strategy that in good and bad, I'm going to use to get to my bigger vision of success?”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (03:36)
• Freelancing and multiple roles:
  • “It does not at all have the same kind of stigma because for most people, we're no longer thinking one career for your entire life.”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (05:44)
• On preparing for downturns:
  • “Just like the ups are inevitable, so are the downs. Create a career playbook. Understand what is your value in the marketplace.”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (06:34)
• On negotiation and opportunity:
  • “Maybe I want to stay, but instead of…another $2 per hour, maybe I want a broader job opportunity in the company. Maybe I want a different position. Maybe I want for them to send me back to school. Think about all the ways that you can be negotiating.”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (07:44)
• On being prepared:
  • “You want to always be able to do both [take advantage of today and prepare for cycles].”
    — Dr. Natalia Peart (08:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Labor market context & job-hopping temptation: 00:20–02:42
• Shifting vs. drifting explained: 03:25–04:53
• Freelancing and career flexibility: 04:53–06:12
• Advice for younger workers: 06:12–08:52
• Preparation for economic shifts: 08:52–09:12

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Tone

The conversation is practical and motivational, emphasizing personal responsibility in career management and encouraging a proactive, strategic approach to both opportunity and risk.

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Summary prepared for listeners who want actionable career advice in a strong job market—and a warning against the pitfalls of job-hopping without a bigger plan.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Charles Schwab. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. [e-mail] Washingtonwise.

[B]

With your Money briefing. I'm J.R. whalen at the Wall Street Journal in New York. Low unemployment and rising wages have tilted the labor market balance of power to workers and many have jumped from job to job, seeking more attractive salaries.

[C]

But that's not always a good idea

[B]

with respect to your career. We'll explain why in a moment.

[C]

First, these money and market stories.

[B]

You should know Housing starts rose a substantial 18.6% in January from the prior month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.23 million. And the Commerce Department says there are residential building permits that can signal how much construction is in the pipeline rose a more modest 1.4% from December to an annual pace of 1.34 million. The home building sector has struggled with higher interest rates and a tight labor market for construction workers in recent years. From January 2018, housing starts registered a 7.8% decline and wall Street Journal Intelligent Investor columnist Jason Zweig writes that as states and the securities and Exchange Commission draw up rules to require stockbrokers to act in their clients best interest, individual investors should be mindful of the idea that their best interest starts with themselves. He writes, to keep your money safe, you must rely not on regulators, but on your own care and due diligence. Look into fees and risks before you give the slightest thought to performance. Ask plenty of questions and never trust anyone who promises to make you rich quick or to increase your return without raising risk. See Jason's full column on WSJ.com or at the WSJ app. He ends the column, by the way, with a quote from investment analyst Ben Graham, who once wrote there are no sure and easy paths to riches on Wall street or anywhere else.

[C]

With unemployment at 50 year lows, it is certainly a job seekers market and those wanting to change jobs are enjoying the balance of power as well, but is hopping from job to job in an employee's best interest employment. And what should freelancers keep in mind in this job market? Natalia Peart is a psychologist and performance consultant at Fortune 1000 companies and joins us to discuss so Natalia, this labor market can empower workers, but you suggest people think before jumping jobs.

[D]

JR that is absolutely right. I think that on the one hand it is nothing but good news that we are in such a labor market that's advantageous to employees. But on the other hand, we want to tread deliberately. So in other words, our goal isn't at the end of our career to say, how many jobs have we racked up? Our goal has to be that at the end of all of that, did we get where we wanted to. We've got to keep our bigger vision in mind and use this job market to our advantage.

[C]

You often mention shifting versus drifting. What exactly is that?

[D]

So the difference between shifting and drifting is, first of all, it starts with this key difference. No matter what job market we're in, whether it's a good one, whether it's one that is not playing to our favor, we have always got to see ourselves as the boss of our own career. Here's what I mean by that. We have got to play to our advantage, always maintain control of our life, and not just think about, what's my next job because it's a good market. You should be thinking to yourself, what is my bigger strategy that in good and bad, I'm going to use to get to my bigger vision of success? Once you're thinking, thinking that way, what you're now doing is figuring out what steps can I take. In other words, how am I going to shift to get where I'm trying to go? As opposed to drifting based upon, oh, I saw a new job tomorrow and, you know, let me go ahead and apply for that, or, hey, that's an interesting opportunity. They're paying, you know, $2 more. I should go there. That is drifting. So what really I want to walk you through is how do we take this job market, use it to our advantage and shift, not drift.

[C]

This labor market has created opportunities up and down the scale for people looking for work and people looking to change jobs, whatever the case might be. But it has also created opportunities for freelancers. How has freelancing changed the way that people accept and leave their jobs?

[D]

First of all, changing jobs and having more than one job so certainly does not have the same stigma that it used to. Many people now are thinking about how to even supplement, even if they have a main job that they're satisfied with. Oftentimes, people are thinking, you know what? I may want to have a side job, a freelance, to now help with, maybe helping me get some extra dollars. Maybe I have a bigger point of view in mind in terms of where I'm trying to go, and I am in this particular job right now. But you know what? Before I fully take a leap, I want to do some freelancing. I want to dip My toe in the water. So freelancing is a great way to bridge. It's a great way to sort of take some steps where you can shift. It's a great way for you to also supplement. And again, it does not at all have the same kind of stigma because for most people, we're no longer thinking one career for your entire life.

[C]

This is the tightest job market and a labor market that we have not seen in 50 years. Unemployment has drifted below 4% for younger workers who have not lived through a broad spectrum of types of labor markets. What do you see as the smartest career moves to make if you're in your 20s or 30s?

[D]

So for many younger employees who have not been through the ups and downs, here is what I want to say. Here's the smartest way to think about your career. You should know that just like the ups are inevitable, so are the downs. Create a career playbook. Understand what is your value in the marketplace. Don't just think about yourself based upon one title. It may be too narrow. Think about what are the key skills and talents and gifts that you have that even in a market, when it shifts and it's not in your favor, you can now think about other ways that you can use your talents. The next thing you want to do is for every play that you are running, whether it's a main job, a side job, a freelance job, you always want to understand, am I adding to my skills? What value am I providing that I can then negotiate? So you always want to know, am I negotiating on salary based upon what I am contributing? Maybe I am happy where I am great. But I should always be in the market looking around so that I know what's the best competitive advantage that I have. Maybe I want to stay, but instead of arguing for or or competing based upon another $2 per hour, maybe I want to have a broader job opportunity in the company. Maybe I want a different position. Maybe I want for them to send me back to school. Think about all the ways that you can be negotiating. So if this is your first go round, I would say to you, always think about yourself being open to opportunities. Always think about yourself using the power of your networks to always know what's out there and available. Always know what you your end goal is in mind. Always know the multiple ways in which you can get there and always be the first person to be able to put together what your value is. And then speak clearly and compellingly to your boss or to others to help open up more opportunities for you.

[C]

So I guess the lesson is always be prepared and be ready for the economy of the labor market to take a hard corner, turn a hard corner because it's done it before.

[D]

That's exactly right because we know cycles will always occur and it's about controlling your future. It's not just about taking advantage of today. You want to always be able to do both.

[C]

All right. That is Natalia Peart joining us on the line. Natalia, thanks for being with us.

[D]

Oh, it is truly my pleasure.

[C]

And that's your money briefing. I'm JR Whalen in New York for the Wall Street Journal.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Charles Schwab. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. But what policy changes should investors be watching? Washington Wise is an original podcast from Charles Schwab that unpacks the stories making news in Washington right now and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. [e-mail] WashingtonWise.