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- [00:01]
Marc Maron
Now's a good time to start thinking about goals, people. A new year is coming up and really a whole new world. Maybe you want to start traveling more. Maybe you just want to focus on creating a new you. A great way to do this is by learning a new language, and Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program there is. I always thought the time to learn a new language had passed me by, but with Rosetta Stone available on desktop or as an app, I can learn a new language anywhere I go without it being a crunch on my time. For 30 years, Rosetta Stone has been teaching millions of users 25 languages, including French, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, Arabic, Polish, and more. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a short time, WTF listeners can get Rosetta Stone's Lifetime Membership Holiday Special. This offer will not last long. Visit rosettastone.com WTF that's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your Holiday offer@RosettaStone.com WTFToday for yourself or as a gift that keep giving. Hey people, I just got rid of all the hair on my face. But that was a choice. For a lot of men, losing the hair on top of their head is no choice at all. But even though no one wants to lose their hair, it's actually very common. And now with hims, the solution is simple. Try HIMS Hair Loss Solutions and you'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who got their flow back. HIMS makes treating hair loss simple with options that are clinically proven and trusted by doctors. Just answer a few questions and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment is sent directly to your door. Start your free online Visit today@hisss.com WTF that's hims.com WTF for your personal hair loss treatment options. Hisss.com WTF results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information.
- [02:08]
Anthony Jeselnik
Lock the gate.
- [02:17]
Marc Maron
All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears. What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast, broadcasting from a fairly bouncy room. I'm in. I'm in an old Adobe in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and it's interesting to be in a classic mud House. But the walls are what they are. And this is sometimes what it sounds like when I'm out in the world doing the stuff I came out here. As many of you know, I grew up here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'll keep saying Albuquerque, New Mexico. I've gotten into the habit of buying a cheap tourist shirt every time I leave Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm developing quite a collection of Albuquerque shirts. I don't know, I've been. I'm kind of born again Berkey out here. There were years where I just didn't know what, you know, you'd come home, I'd see whoever I still had here, which is primarily my dad. And then, you know, you get this thing where, well, maybe I want to get out of here as quick as possible. Some sort of indicator, some sort of site of the traumatic incidents, arc of adolescence, childhood. It's funny when you sort of transcend somehow or another. I guess it's just part of getting older, where whatever you resented or feared or did not want to revisit in your young life becomes a thing that you desperately want to visit and revisit and recalibrate. Because I don't know, man, there's something, you know, home is home in terms of, you know, what. What created your neural pathways. Environmentally, it's with you forever. It's part of your heart that's. So that's really where I'm at with this. With this battered up, you know, interesting little city that I grew up in. It's weird, I know a lot of you, like, I thought you were east coast guy. Genetically Jersey, as I always say. Genetically Jersey. I'm here to see my dad, and I have a few old friends here who I saw last night. And I know I kind of do this thing every time I come back here, but I don't. It's something to check in with as you get older. Who do you got left, man? What is your life? Who do you got left? Who do you have today? Anthony Jeselnik is back. He was on episode 206. That's more than 13 years ago. Jesus fuck. We've been doing this a long time. But as many of you noticed, I do have people back because the arc of this show, there's the word arc again. The arc of this show, there's literally people that had nothing going on when I first talked to them. And they've had entire careers, entire childhoods have been lived listening to me. I have people that can now say that they were listening to me when they were in High school and now they're 30. It's crazy. So he was on a long time ago. Many of you know him. He's a writer, comedian, actor. He's got a new special out on Netflix starting tomorrow. But Jeselnik is an interesting character in terms of comedy. There is something about a jokesmith. There's something about a guy whose entire Persona and his entire stage presence and delivery and everything else is really built around delivering these beautiful, well structured, dark kind of mind blowing jokes. And that's what he does. You know, I've known him for years, we don't hang out. I feel that he's changed a bit since I first talked to him. But he's one of those guys that what it's all about for him are these jokes and that's, you know, that's a writer's mentality but also a standoff's mentality. And there's no, no, nobody quite like him. And there hasn't been. People have tried. He's, you know, he is, he. He does carve out his own path and it was good to, to catch up with him again. I'm back in Los Angeles at Largo on Friday, December 13th. That will be a music and comedy show. I'm going to get the band together, but it's interesting. So, okay, so in Los Angeles the other night I went to see the Brutalist. I went to a screening of the Brutalist, which is a kind of mind blowing movie. Big. It's like. I don't even know how to describe it. There's people that are able to make these thoughtful, poetic, huge movies, you know, some challenging stuff, but the scope of it was huge. I mean, I guess I would compare it probably to There Will Be Blood in terms of what it speaks to about America, about old money, about immigration, about Jews, about benefactors, about architecture, about art, about the. It's one of these movies that it's three and a half hours long. But anyway, so I get out of the theater in Los Angeles, it's at the Vista Theater. And I just had this moment where. And I don't know if this is an age thing, it was just this moment where it wasn't even a deja vu feeling. It's just a feeling like I've been in LA a long time, on and off a long time. And pretty much, you know, I've had a place there since what, 2002, one way or the other. So I just walk out of the cedar and I'm just on a corner, I'm on a Corner in, I guess it would be Los Feliz on Sunset and Hollywood. Around there. Somewhere around there. And in my mind, all these moments that I've been in that area throughout the entire time I've been in LA just kind of congealed into this feeling of like, what happened all that time? What happened to all that time? I mean, you know, I'm talking what, 20 some odd years of experiences. And when you have experiences in your life with people and with places, and if you don't see those people a lot or you don't go to those places very often, you kind of hold those memories in a place where they're not actively alive. But when they do come alive, like being at that theater, the Vista Theater, it was closed for years. I remember when it was kind of crappy and then they redid it and then, you know, Covid happened. It was closed. I think Tarantino bought it. But whatever the case was, I had this history with that theater and with people who I've been with over the years and seen movies there. And just this moment where you're like, that was just. It feels like last week. It feels like fucking last week. And I don't really know how to explain that. I'm not really a guy. Like, you know, it goes by so fast. It never feels like it's going by fast to me, but I guess it is. It does pick up speed as you get older. But it's just interesting how you hold your life and moments in your life, they're in some part of your brain where if there are active memories and you pull them back up, you're like, yeah, I remember that like it was yesterday. Yet there's this 20 some odd year gap there. And it's just. It's a very odd feeling. It's a very present feeling to be sitting there or standing on a street and just be like, holy fuck. All that time is behind me. All those people are behind me. All those memories are only memories. And in my brain, if they settle right in a moment, I have no idea where all that time went. I can't even put it into a linear form. It just. It just all of a sudden feels like you've landed on Earth and more than half of your life is gone. And you have a sort of a strange collection of images that represent that life. But it's like time, right, man, And I don't even smoke weed. But I don't guess it's not a nostalgia feeling. It's just like, holy shit, dude. You know, this is now you better, you know, dig in and fucking deal with your life and live it, for fuck's sake. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. And one thing we know about Squarespace, after using them to power our website for more than a decade, is that they never stop improving things. When you sign up at Squarespace, you'll always get the best platform to create your online presence. That hasn't changed. 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That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF yeah, I guess it's just the getting old thing, but thinking about your life, and this is another thing I'm trying to kind of factor into the era we're about to enter in terms of what's the difference between the life of your mind and whatever you're dumping into it and whatever you're letting you know pull you around in terms of how you think, what's the difference between that and your actual life? And I think that most people's lives are very simple, you know, I mean, if you just kind of make a list of the things you do on any given day, almost all days, you know, whatever you, however you vary it on weekends or whatever. But if you just make a list, it's probably pretty small, pretty simple, and probably relatively manageable. And if you include in that list the times you turn on your computer or you're looking on your phone, it would be kind of interesting. It's an experiment I'm going to do, just because once you do that, any kind of screen, you know, you're entering this other world that seems expansive, endless and full of possibilities to jack your brain into either garbage or denial or avoidance or anxiety or emotions or whatever that is. But I think on some level we have to really believe that that's not the real world and that the world we live in and who we inhabit it with and who we encounter On a day to day basis, that is life. And I don't know how we get back to this idea because I don't know, you know, how often you're afforded the opportunity to do something in passing. You're just a nice thing for some other person. Like it shouldn't be as moving as it is. But I think because, you know, we're so disconnected because of our devices and what we allow our brains to do and engage in that the actual human experience, you know, whether it's with an animal or with a kid, your kid or your family, or, you know, just with people in passing, just even minor moments of politeness or can I help you out or sure, you know, I think I can tell you where that is, or whatever it is for me anyways, they kind of possess a pretty big emotional wallop. And, you know, I have to think that was sort of the way it was, that there was a sort of norm of decency among people. And somehow or another we've let our brains be hijacked by a bunch of garbage and information, whether it's divisive or isolating or whatever, that somehow or another has trumped. Yeah, I'll use that word, our ability to be reflexively decent or seek out community or other people. And I don't think there's any other way out of whatever we're experiencing now until we somehow detach from the things that are occupying and guiding our brains because the brain's fragile mush. And whatever your principles are, or whatever your beliefs are, or whatever you think is reality can be, you know, just exploded, pummeled, reshaped almost instantly as soon as you engage with the infinite possibilities of bullshit that we expose our brains to every day. Again, I don't even smoke weed. I ran into some guy on the plane coming out here who was part of a crew of people that hung around my old mentor here in Albuquerque, Gus Blaisdell, a playwright named Grub, Jim Grabner. And I barely recognize him, but I was surprised that I did. And it's just kind of interesting, talking about memory, that he told me about this gig that he booked me on when I was first in la and it was some weird kind of filmmaking festival that he ran and he offered to fly me out and get me a car. And he told me this whole story about taking me to some rent a wreck lot that a friend of his owned and set me up with a car that, you know, didn't work and almost broke down between here and Santa Fe, which is where the event was. And I. I did some live event and he was telling me this, and it. It's almost like your brain is sort of like, you know, I had a hint of a memory, but not a full memory. And I had to excavate it as much as I could. You know, after I ran into him, we had a long conversation about, you know, theater and film and stuff on the plane. It was great, but I had to kind of like dig into the brain to kind of get the feeling or the sense of that memory. And it's just in bits and pieces. And I was sort of upset. I was like, am I losing it? But this is like 22 years ago. And I'm like, why can't I put all that memory together? And I realized afterwards that the one vibe that was sort of overtaking the rest was like, it was. I was full of anxiety. It was not a great gig. The play, the thing was a fucking circus. The live event that I had to do was outdoors. And I really think that I just like some reaction to trauma of just dealing with a hellish situation that I'd gotten myself into and getting through it. That my brain was just sort of like, yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna just put this in a deep file of things that you kind of remember, but the reason you don't is because. Not a great memory. So Anthony Jeselnik came by and we had a nice talk about comedy and the stuff. His new comedy special, Bones and all, premieres tomorrow, November 26th on Netflix. And this is me and Anthony back in the. In the garage. Life is busy, people. And if you're like me, no matter how busy you get, you've got to get your fitness in. Peloton has a variety of challenging classes and programs that fit into your schedule. Whether you're a new parent or traveling for the holiday or training for something big or just busy like everyone else. From four week strength building classes to running, cycling, and everything in between, Peloton can adapt to any goal and need during your busiest times. Find your push, find your power. With peloton@1peloton.com well, I. Why are we staying in LA then? Tell me.
- [18:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
Stand up, mostly. I mean, it just. I feel like I get the best out of myself here. And then eventually, if I'm done with stand up, I might leave. I might maybe Chicago.
- [18:56]
Marc Maron
Done with standup?
- [18:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [18:59]
Marc Maron
Do you think that way?
- [19:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
Because I think in terms of the hour. So if I'm like, I don't have another hour in me, then I'm done.
- [19:05]
Marc Maron
I know, but don't you feel that after every hour?
- [19:11]
Anthony Jeselnik
Not really. Like, halfway through this hour, halfway through this tour, I was like, this might be it. And then as I finish, I'm like, you know what? What if I do it again? Like, wouldn't that be great? And this is my fifth one now.
- [19:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [19:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
So I'm like, if I could do a sixth, you know, what would that look like? And that's fascinating to me.
- [19:27]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, I think that way all the time because I'm drawing from a different well than you. Like, I have to resolve problems.
- [19:34]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [19:35]
Marc Maron
Personal.
- [19:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
I do a little of that. Nice self.
- [19:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [19:38]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, I do. I got, like, that. I don't know. Have you seen the new special?
- [19:41]
Marc Maron
Yes. Yes.
- [19:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
Like, the norm story is me, like, dealing with that.
- [19:45]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [19:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, getting to meet my hero and work with him and having it be a disaster was like, that. Let me. Let me fix this. Or thoughts and prayers. Talking about my Comedy Central show. It was like getting that off my chest.
- [19:56]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [19:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
But for the most part, it's. How can I help comedy.
- [20:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah, dude. I don't. Like, I am fucking going out there now, and I'm like, who are these people now?
- [20:08]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't know anybody. And when I do hear something, it's not good. Like, I'm like, I need to stop looking at the Internet. What do you mean?
- [20:15]
Marc Maron
You mean, like, like, other comics or just people?
- [20:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
Other comics.
- [20:19]
Marc Maron
Well, anyone can do it. Anyone can do it now.
- [20:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
Well, now it's podcasting. It's not so much being a comic as it is being a podcaster who does live appearances.
- [20:28]
Marc Maron
I feel like I unleashed an evil on the world.
- [20:30]
Anthony Jeselnik
But yours is different. I mean, I have a podcast, but I feel like it's different than these other podcasts.
- [20:35]
Marc Maron
How's it doing?
- [20:36]
Anthony Jeselnik
Terrible. We have no guests, no engagement. I don't know who listens to it. We have fans, we do make money, but it's not like, oh, we got a good new guest. They keep telling us, if you had guests, this would be huge.
- [20:48]
Marc Maron
It'd be a different thing.
- [20:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. But I might even quit that because I just don't like the term. I took podcaster out of my bio.
- [20:56]
Marc Maron
I didn't. It's weird being like, an OG guy, because there was a time, like, all of a sudden, everybody has just figured out that, well, I can sit there and talk. And now we have just thousands of blathering white guys. It's like the Zeitgeist has just become afternoon drive time radio.
- [21:16]
Anthony Jeselnik
It's as if podcasters and comedy podcasters figured out the algorithm. Like, if you say, if you go conspiracy theory, right, you're getting a whole new fan base. You know what I mean? If you play devil's advocate when it comes to politics, you're getting that fan base. And they've just clicked into that.
- [21:32]
Marc Maron
I'm not that. I can't. I don't. I'm not that calculating. Whenever I flip around those podcasts, it's always like three dudes, you know, Most of the time, we know at least two of them just sitting around going, like, when was the first time you shit your pants as an adult? And that's an hour.
- [21:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. And I mean, I've done all this, and I can't stand it anymore because it's come become, like, self important that now I'm doing. I'm doing this, I'm doing. Like, I did Tom Papa's podcast.
- [21:57]
Marc Maron
He's a nice guy.
- [21:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'm gonna do Kimmel and that's it. Like, I'm. I'm like, I'm. I don't want to do the rounds. I like Bobby Lee. I like Andrew Santino. I don't want to put up with bad friends.
- [22:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [22:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't want to go in there and do that.
- [22:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [22:10]
Anthony Jeselnik
That I'm just. I'm trying to avoid.
- [22:12]
Marc Maron
Because you don't know what's going to happen.
- [22:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
I kind of know what's going to happen. I know they're just going to try to annoy me. I'm just going to get annoyed. And that's the. And it can be funny, me being, you know, pissed off at someone.
- [22:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
But do I. If I'm, like, building a press tour.
- [22:27]
Marc Maron
Oh, you mean.
- [22:27]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, I can leave that.
- [22:28]
Marc Maron
They're going to try to get you worked up.
- [22:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
- [22:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I remember just back in the day in New York where, you know, I was always. I do Opie and Anthony occasionally. But you just didn't know what you were going to be part of. Yeah, that was. That's a different thing. Like, you know, am I going to be part of some racist excursion?
- [22:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, I remember doing Opie and Anthony back in the day, and it was a huge deal.
- [22:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [22:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was like, you got to get on there.
- [22:50]
Marc Maron
You'd be part of the guys. One of the guys.
- [22:52]
Anthony Jeselnik
I remember going, I was doing like a weekend at Caroline's and they had it on the list. And I get there at like seven in the morning, right. Drink a big coffee, and an intern meets me. He's like, shaking and he's like, I'm so sorry. They don't have time for you today. Oh, no, they can't have you on. And I'm like, okay. And I realized now they were fucking with me. They were like, fuck this guy. He thinks he's so great. Let's have him show up here at 7am and tell him no.
- [23:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then I still went and I. But it was such a big deal that I went back like a year later when I was doing Caroline's and did it again.
- [23:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [23:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'll never forget the first question they asked me is, do you ever use the N word on stage?
- [23:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [23:27]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I go, no. Like, think it was like a trick question, like, no. And then the interview, like, shut down, where they, like, they were like, oh, this guy's no fun. And like 10 minutes later they're like, all right, you can get out of here now. And I'm like, why is this so popular? Why is this the thing those people.
- [23:43]
Marc Maron
The evolution of those people are now what is taken over. I can't, like, I'm having a difficult time because, you know, I drew a line, you know, between, you know, I've been calling out the sort of Rogan empire as, you know, some sort of tribal leadership problem. And then just now they're just. It's just. And I'm not putting you in a position to speak to this, but now it's just like some sort of full on bootlicking going on and facilitation of what is going to be the fucking end of everything. And like, I drew that. I publicly wrote a piece.
- [24:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, yeah.
- [24:21]
Marc Maron
And, you know, I was relatively diplomatic, but after a certain point, someone's got to go like, this is what's happening. It's not just comedy anymore. Right?
- [24:31]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah, No, I totally agree with you 100%. Used a lot of words I did not understand in the, in the, in the off ed piece. But I agree with you. I think they've been seduced. I think that whole crew has been seduced by power, by. Yes, by. These are the people who will talk to us.
- [24:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [24:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
The other side doesn't.
- [24:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [24:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
And so we're going to engage. And it's not even so much the, the interview as it is the victory lap. That bothers me is the, oh, we did this. Like, we helped the picture with the arm around each other, you know, like, new podcast coming soon. Yeah, that's what makes me sick. If they were fucking with these guys at all.
- [25:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [25:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'd have no problem with it. Right? They're not. Yeah, that Just makes me think like podcasting is something I just don't want to be. I know there's a million different kinds of podcasts. I don't listen to any of them.
- [25:16]
Marc Maron
But it feels like the entire. All of what we knew of show business that's sort of been marginal, marginalized. And these bigger outlets, like whoever's doing the special, they're just gonna glom onto those guys. Cause they don't give a fuck, they just want the numbers. And now I'm starting just to. I have to fight the urge or I have to fight the. I don't know if it's a fear, but that part of the victory lap thing is that if you think differently, all of a sudden you've gotta fight the position of sort of like, I'm fucking, I've been beaten.
- [25:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
That's how it's weird to me that to be contradictory towards that group is seen as like a betrayal.
- [25:55]
Marc Maron
I know.
- [25:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
And not like we're all comedians.
- [25:57]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [25:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
We are all like free thinkers.
- [26:00]
Marc Maron
Sure.
- [26:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
And you go on stage by yourself.
- [26:02]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [26:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
This whole team up shit, I can't stand. It couldn't be more lame to me. And I don't understand why I have to think it's cool.
- [26:09]
Marc Maron
Well, but also that's not why we got into it. We got into it because we were asocial fucking weirdos that needed to find our own path. And now it's sort of like, these are my boys. I don't want to be anyone's fucking boy.
- [26:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, not at all.
- [26:20]
Marc Maron
Never wanted to. Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. It puts me in a weird position. But it seems like you're like me in some way, that every time you get involved with a group of guys that's doing that thing and you want to adapt because of the situation, it just feels like a personal betrayal somehow.
- [26:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes. It feels like you have a day job and you have to please your boss. And it's like, I don't have a boss. I don't know why you would get into standup comedy just so you could do whatever Joe Rogan says.
- [26:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I don't. And the thing is, I think about it a lot. It just, it turns out, and I'm not saying anyone individual, but it turns out that we're all pretty self serving. So you and I are in a position where we don't have to do that. But some of these younger comics who may think differently or think totally in the same way we are, feel like this is how they have to do it. But I can't Even imagine, you know, like, when I think about, like. Well, people are like, would you ever do the Mothership? I wouldn't even think about it. But I don't have any reason to perform for those guys.
- [27:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [27:24]
Marc Maron
How much do I have to hate myself? But I imagine you have some crossover.
- [27:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
Sure. I went. Toured the Mothership because I knew Curtis, the guy who was running the place at the time, from the store. He went over there.
- [27:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I know.
- [27:34]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, I was doing like a couple shows on a Sunday, and I went over there just for a tour. I was like, this place is beautiful. It's great. It's set up as a great comedy club.
- [27:43]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [27:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
But it's too easy.
- [27:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [27:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, it's like, you can't fail there.
- [27:48]
Marc Maron
I could.
- [27:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
They just want to hear, like, the bad words. I'm sure they would be so happy to see you there that you would destroy.
- [27:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [27:54]
Anthony Jeselnik
I can't imagine Joe Rogan's ever had a bad set.
- [27:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. At that comedy club because they're also. They're happy to be part of the thing. And so they were just thrilled. Like I would. The only thing that makes me want to do it is that I have some bits now that are really kind of like, they're dark, but they're personal. But they're edgier than anything that those guys could do.
- [28:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes.
- [28:18]
Marc Maron
And I just wonder if I could get them into that zone and fuck with their heads. But it would take a bit of salesmanship.
- [28:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
I wonder if it would take maybe like another year of that club being open. Because they're all, I believe, being edgy in the same way.
- [28:29]
Marc Maron
It's not edgy, it's hack. It's hack.
- [28:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
It's become very, very hacked.
- [28:34]
Marc Maron
I was at the store one night and I heard in two different rooms, two different comics, both go, I guess I gotta do my trans bit now. It's like, no, you don't really. There's no. Where's the list? What's the requirement?
- [28:44]
Anthony Jeselnik
I am glad to be done with transbits. I'm glad to have my one trans bit that I'm very happy with. And now I can never say it ever again. Never mention it.
- [28:53]
Marc Maron
So what are your experiences out there? I mean, do you deal with? I think you've talked about it, but, I mean, you've got to, like. It's sort of the Cobain problem that, you know, all of a sudden you're playing for people that you wouldn't even want to talk to.
- [29:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, I think I've been pretty good about Policing my own audience.
- [29:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [29:09]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think in terms of, you know, I believe that most of my ticket buying audience are conservative, which I'm not. But my act is, has been the same.
- [29:19]
Marc Maron
Sure.
- [29:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
I've spoken my mind in interviews that no one's coming to me because they think I'm on the same political wavelength as them.
- [29:26]
Marc Maron
They just like what you do.
- [29:27]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes.
- [29:27]
Marc Maron
Because like, you know, somehow or another I think people have grown to understand that it is a character in a way and that you're writing for that, that you have a groove that you do. And it's, it's, it's shocking and surprising in the way that they want to. It's only challenging in the sense that they don't know what the fuck you're going to say next.
- [29:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes.
- [29:47]
Marc Maron
And they like being sort of shocked by it.
- [29:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. And I have, I have no interest in preaching to anyone about anything. I just want to do my jokes with my twists.
- [29:56]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [29:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, but the idea of me getting up there and being like, guys, we gotta get out the vote is fucking insane. Like, I couldn't imagine.
- [30:03]
Marc Maron
But do you, did you feel that was there part of you as Anthony that was sort of like, we gotta get out the vote?
- [30:10]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, no. I'm like, I don't know what they could have done. I think Hillary should not have run eight years ago.
- [30:17]
Marc Maron
But now are you looking down the barrel at what is clearly going to be some sort of strange version of authoritarianism and thinking like, well, how does this affect me?
- [30:26]
Anthony Jeselnik
Not really, no. I think I'm just. My options are to either keep going or to quit. I choose to keep going. I could take my money and retire and go live somewhere else.
- [30:35]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [30:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
But I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to be the resistance, but I'm just going to keep doing what I do and hope that's enough.
- [30:42]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah, I think you're in that zone where you are apolitical. You do do a thing. You have a point of view that works for all people in the sense that like, you know, they're not coming to you because of politics or anything else or speaking your mind necessarily.
- [30:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [30:58]
Marc Maron
And it's entertainment.
- [30:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
They're coming to see a horror movie, you know, and they don't have to agree with everything in the horror movie in order to get the jump scares and to scream and feel like they had a good time.
- [31:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [31:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
And that, that's fine. I'm, I'll take all, I'll take anyone who's, who's lucky enough to buy A ticket.
- [31:11]
Marc Maron
But did you go to Europe?
- [31:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [31:13]
Marc Maron
Where'd you go?
- [31:14]
Anthony Jeselnik
I went everywhere I went. I did, like, 20 shows in Europe. I was. I was everywhere from, like, London to, like, Cyprus. Like, I was just. I ended in Oslo. I couldn't name all the places that I went to.
- [31:25]
Marc Maron
Did any of them have an impact on you? Did you have a good time?
- [31:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, I had a great time. Europe was amazing.
- [31:31]
Marc Maron
Had you been.
- [31:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
I had been to Europe, but not all of these cities. But even going to Europe, you know, last time I did Berlin, my last European tour, My first European tour, it was 100 people sitting on the floor.
- [31:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [31:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
And this time it was like 1400 people in a theater with my parents there. And that was amazing.
- [31:46]
Marc Maron
You flew your parents out?
- [31:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
They flew out themselves out. They wanted to come see me in Zurich, Munich and Berlin, where they honeymooned. They had met in Korea on an army base.
- [31:56]
Marc Maron
Okay.
- [31:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
My dad was a JAG officer. My mom's dad was a general.
- [31:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [31:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
And they met, dated for five months, got married because he was getting shipped out.
- [32:03]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [32:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
And so they had a honeymoon around Europe and then went and moved to Pittsburgh and. And had me.
- [32:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [32:09]
Anthony Jeselnik
But they wanted to kind of see their old haunts and. Yeah. After I left, they had a couple weeks to drive around themselves and kind of remember old times.
- [32:18]
Marc Maron
And what was it in any of these places? What was the culture difference? Did you feel like there was any lack of communication?
- [32:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
There were a couple places where I'm like, oh, these people don't give a shit about trans people. It's just not a thing here the way it would be in America. Isn't that relieving places? Yeah, it wasn't upsetting. It was just like, oh, you guys don't really care about this. This isn't as edgy as it would be be right. In America. Most shows were great. London was amazing. Sure.
- [32:44]
Marc Maron
Where did you.
- [32:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
I forget the name of the place, but. 3,500 seats sold out. Yeah, those were. That was a really fun show. Dublin, Manchester.
- [32:52]
Marc Maron
Where'd you play? Dublin?
- [32:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
I couldn't tell you.
- [32:54]
Marc Maron
Was it a big theater or is it big?
- [32:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was a big place.
- [32:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Like. Oh, yeah, because I do like that Vicar street there. But that's only like 850 or something.
- [33:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
This was a cup. This was maybe 2,000.
- [33:04]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it was good.
- [33:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
UK was fantastic.
- [33:06]
Marc Maron
Ireland's great.
- [33:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah, beautiful. Loved Dublin and loved Belfast. The next day, everyone's like, I'll get. Dublin was great, but get ready for Belfast tomorrow. And it was just as good as Dublin.
- [33:16]
Marc Maron
You didn't sense any difference, tension, anything?
- [33:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, you just go.
- [33:20]
Marc Maron
Do you walk? Do you go do the town?
- [33:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
If I can. If I have like a day off, I like to walk around and pretend I live there. Like I had a couple days in Amsterdam. I'm not a tourist guy.
- [33:30]
Marc Maron
Amsterdam's a little dirty, isn't it?
- [33:31]
Anthony Jeselnik
Not where I was staying. You know, I kind of enjoyed wandering where I was wandering.
- [33:35]
Marc Maron
What's all those canals and stuff. But like, I remember going there as a kid and there was something sort of decadent and enchanting about it, but now it just seems to be a lot of hippie shit and a lot of like, you know, tourist stores that are weed oriented.
- [33:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
There's certainly a lot of that, but not kind of in the area where I.
- [33:51]
Marc Maron
Did you play at that place that, like, it used to be for a circus?
- [33:54]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't even know I played at a place. I remember this one. I remember this fucking theater.
- [33:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [33:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
Because it's just called the Amsterdam Theater.
- [34:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then, like, it's 10 years old. I find this out when I get there. It's new.
- [34:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
And it's beautiful. It's like, it's not a lot of seats, but it's like a huge theater. And it was made just to show the play the Diary of Anne Frank every night. And after four years, that business shut down. And so now it's just a beautiful theater that was made to watch the Diary of Anne Frank and they use it for standup comedy. And those shows were. It was two sold out shows. They were sold out immediately.
- [34:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:30]
Anthony Jeselnik
And the audience was like, huh? And it's Dutch people too, who do not laugh. But I remember being like, this is so fucking funny.
- [34:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [34:36]
Anthony Jeselnik
But I'm up here bombing in the Anne Frank Theater. Like, why did you make a theater for this and then decide stand up comedy would be the next move?
- [34:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah. How do you think you're going to exercise that?
- [34:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Marc Maron
Demon.
- [34:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was not. We needed lower ceilings. We needed some different sound in there. But it was. It was.
- [34:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah, you can't. It's kind of hard to overcome the Nazi vibe. Fuck. And Cyprus, what the hell's that? Like?
- [35:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
I could barely tell you. It felt like an island. It was tropical. It was a really nice day. You know, I didn't get outside much, but the show was great. You know, people were excited to be there.
- [35:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
Some of these places, they're just excited that someone showed up.
- [35:14]
Marc Maron
Did you go to Italy?
- [35:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
No. No Italy. No, no France.
- [35:18]
Marc Maron
No France. No Italy. Why? Because you thought the language thing?
- [35:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, it was just my agent, you know, I was going to do this tour in April and May in Europe. My agent gave me a bunch of dates and I was like, oh, I can't. I might be doing this Comedy Central thing.
- [35:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then that went away. So it was like, all right, here's your dates in Europe. But I just. I was missing Milan and France.
- [35:34]
Marc Maron
Yes.
- [35:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
But everything else is pretty much the.
- [35:36]
Marc Maron
Same because I thought that when I went to Oswald. I went to Oswald, I went to Sweden. What's the main place in Stockholm?
- [35:44]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [35:45]
Marc Maron
Jugo.
- [35:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yep.
- [35:46]
Marc Maron
Those are great.
- [35:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [35:47]
Marc Maron
And pretty places.
- [35:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Marc Maron
And everybody's attractive.
- [35:51]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, everyone. I mean, go walk through Copenhagen. It was like, everyone's a model. Everyone was so beautiful. And I had like 12 hours in Copenhagen. So there are some cities you just don't get a chance to see anything.
- [36:00]
Marc Maron
But you could have. You just have no interest.
- [36:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
I just. I'm worried about the show. I want to be at my best for the show that night. And that means like taking a shower, resting up, meditating, whatever I have to do.
- [36:11]
Marc Maron
You meditate?
- [36:11]
Anthony Jeselnik
I try to, you know, I do the. I do the TM thing. That's like twice a day, 20 minutes.
- [36:15]
Marc Maron
But I do got a little thing.
- [36:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
I took the class. Yeah. Years and years. Like.
- [36:20]
Marc Maron
So you do 20 minutes twice a day.
- [36:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
You're supposed to. I probably do 20 minutes once a day at most. It's basically like, I can't nap. So that's the best I can do to nap. You know, I can maybe if I fall asleep for a second doing that, I feel much better.
- [36:34]
Marc Maron
Well, tell me about it. Because, like, I tried to meditate during COVID and I know that Lynn was. She lived by it twice a day, no matter what, you know, do the 20 minutes. And it shifted her whole fucking disposition. And the girlfriend, now, she went and got the TM thing but never really worked. It never did it. But was there a point where you did it?
- [36:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
I was doing it for like a year.
- [36:58]
Marc Maron
Did you go to the class and everything?
- [37:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
I did the class and it was right when I got. It was like 2013 where I was doing the TV show.
- [37:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I wanted something like, from myself that I could just be like, you know, for 20 minutes a day, I'm gonna escape everything and go do this. And it helped for like close to a year. And then you just start half assing it.
- [37:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, you're kind of like. You're kind of doing it, but you're kind of thinking about something else. And Then I just was like, I'm against this now. And now I just kind of use it as I need it. It's like it really is. It replaces it.
- [37:28]
Marc Maron
Fuck that.
- [37:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. But that was it once. You're not doing it that right. You're just like, this is stupid. Like, everyone who gets into transcendental meditation gets really into it.
- [37:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I was always hearing about David lynch because I was through David Lynch's thing.
- [37:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that's what happened.
- [37:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
Lynch one day in an interview, said, sometimes, you know, I. I meditate every day, 20 minutes, twice a day.
- [37:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then one time, he was like, if I'm on set, you know, I'll get a couple minutes here.
- [37:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:50]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then I get home and I finish the meditation. I was like, oh, you're not even doing it the right way.
- [37:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [37:54]
Anthony Jeselnik
So why am I fucking with your.
- [37:55]
Marc Maron
But did you ever feel like you got to that place where you're like, I'm there? No, See, I think that's the difference.
- [38:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
I thought it would help me sleep. My sleep is really bad. And I grind my teeth. And I was like, if I could calm myself.
- [38:06]
Marc Maron
Really?
- [38:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes. That's why I just came from the chiropractor. Like, my teeth grinding is so bad that it goes down all through my back. And it's been getting worse. Like, this whole tour. I was dealing with chronic pain in my lower back. Sitting on an airplane seat was.
- [38:19]
Marc Maron
Hell, yeah.
- [38:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
That when I got to the city, I would just lay in my hotel bed until it was time for the show and even exercise. I was just, like, getting over.
- [38:27]
Marc Maron
And all the strange beds. Strange beds.
- [38:30]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [38:30]
Marc Maron
You don't know what the fuck. Yeah. Fuck you up.
- [38:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [38:33]
Marc Maron
So you got this. How's the chiropractor at work?
- [38:36]
Anthony Jeselnik
This is my. I'm on my third one now. I went to this guy who was. Who butchered me right before the tour. He, like, did that thing where he pulls the leg and, like, fucked up my hip. And I was like, okay, gotta get rid of this guy. I went to some New Age guy who does these weird little adjustments. And that really helped, but it took a long time.
- [38:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Anthony Jeselnik
And now I'm with a guy who's Just for the tmj, the teeth grinding. Who is amazing. But I've only seen. This is my third time seeing him.
- [39:00]
Marc Maron
You've done it. You've ground your teeth all your life.
- [39:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
Not all my life. It started right before I did the Donald Trump roast. I would do it sometimes when I was younger, if someone slept in my bed, they'd be like, you were grinding your teeth last night. But I felt fine.
- [39:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [39:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
Or I would get a mouth guard, and I would fall out in the middle of the night. Cause I wasn't grinding. And then right before I did the Trump roast, in like, 2010, 2011. Yeah, I really started grinding, where I'm like, oh, I'm talking differently.
- [39:23]
Marc Maron
Fucking Trump, he fucked you up.
- [39:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
Personally, it was my big break, and I'm like, I need this to go well. And I got a mouth guard made in the weeks I was preparing for it, and I thought, when this is over, I'll stop grinding my teeth. And then it was like I ground so much during that month of preparing that afterwards. It's like my natural condition. Like, I can't relax unless I've clenched my jaw as tight as it'll go. And that's how I wake up every morning. So if I turn my head in my sleep, it fucks up my whole neck, and it just goes down my back into my sacrum area. But it sucks.
- [39:56]
Marc Maron
What?
- [39:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
I've gotten Botox in the jaw. It doesn't do anything. I've got the mouth guards. I do it all and nothing, like, just fixes it. I'm like, what can you do that would just stop me from doing this?
- [40:08]
Marc Maron
Well, have you tried to track the source of it? So it was brought on by, you know, by. I don't. I guess it's nerves.
- [40:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
People say nerves, but it wasn't like. That's, like, the most nervous I've ever been, you know?
- [40:20]
Marc Maron
But, I mean. But you knew that was a lot of. There was a lot at stake.
- [40:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, yes. I knew there was a lot at stake. And they say it's genetics, too. My dad's always ground his teeth.
- [40:27]
Marc Maron
Really?
- [40:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, for his whole life. He wears, like, two mouth guards that people. And it's just a thing that more and more people do now.
- [40:33]
Marc Maron
Was that Trump roast your break?
- [40:34]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, yeah. I had been on tv, I'd done a couple things, but it was like I went from performing at comedy clubs where half the audience has no idea who I am.
- [40:42]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [40:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then not even close to selling out, to selling out every show with everyone knowing exactly what they were getting.
- [40:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [40:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
It changed my life completely.
- [40:51]
Marc Maron
So it was kind of the Nikki Glaser thing. That happened to her, too. I think this last Nikki, I think, was further.
- [40:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
I mean, it definitely changed. I think she went into bigger places, but she was still selling out clubs and stuff. Yeah.
- [41:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But you were nowhere.
- [41:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
I was. I was just. I put out an Album and a couple of late night appearances that you would. Maybe you would have known. But then it was literally just a sold out crowd of like, yes, we want the dark shit. Not like, oh, you're doing dark. Let's try to get on board.
- [41:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, and that just completely changed.
- [41:17]
Marc Maron
So they knew.
- [41:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [41:18]
Marc Maron
So this roasting. So how many did you do total?
- [41:21]
Anthony Jeselnik
3.
- [41:22]
Marc Maron
And did you do. Are you still asked to do them?
- [41:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
They bring it up, like, really far in advance. And I always say no. I'm like, you can. It would cost so much money. Whitney Cummings tried to get me on those only fans roast she was doing. So we have a budget. Like, what would it cost? And I was like, here's how much.
- [41:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:38]
Anthony Jeselnik
After doing three, I was like, I never want to do this again. I never want to do it it again. I love the. I love the first two that I did. The first one really was my favorite. The second Trump, Trump was great because it was like, that was just all my stuff. And then Sheen was less than six months later, so I was like, fuck, I've got to like, I've got to top that or match that.
- [41:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then Roseanne was just a nightmare. It was like they tried to make it classy and then abandoned that last second. And it was just all old women on the panel.
- [42:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
On the dais. So all the jokes were kind of the same and no one cared. Like, Trump changed my life. Charlie Sheen was crazy because everyone watched that. That it was like, oh, an extra level of fame because he was.
- [42:16]
Marc Maron
That was post his meltdown.
- [42:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes. That was the biggest, like, roast to, like, timeliness that they've ever done.
- [42:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then Roseanne, it was like it never happened. Like, it was like it just. No one saw it. Didn't move the needle at all.
- [42:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [42:30]
Anthony Jeselnik
I was like, okay, you know what? I'm done with this. I've done as much roasting as I care to, and I like doing. I like judging Roast Battle. If you ever did that with Jeff Ross, that TV show was really fun to do, but as far as roasting goes, like, I'm retired and you could get me there. They wanted me for the Brady one, but I had been. I'd talked enough about not wanting to do it. They didn't even ask.
- [42:50]
Marc Maron
They were just like, for some reason, I. I'm not a huge, like, new roast guy. I always think the deuses are too huge and. And I. I don't know. I couldn't get through the Brady one.
- [43:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
I didn't watch it. I Haven't watched one because to me, it's like, I know what everyone's doing. They'll be like, you gotta see this joke. And I'll be like, okay. Like, I get it. You know, I thought Nikki did great.
- [43:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Anthony Jeselnik
Always watched Nikki stuff.
- [43:10]
Marc Maron
She's great. She was great.
- [43:11]
Anthony Jeselnik
But yeah, I don't care. It doesn't do it for me the way it did. It used to really mean a lot to me. And just by having done it a few times, I'm like, no, I'm good.
- [43:20]
Marc Maron
All that stuff that means a lot to you early on is fucking starts to fade, doesn't it?
- [43:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
It should. I mean, if you're lucky.
- [43:26]
Marc Maron
Because, like. Cause there's a period that we all go through where you're like, I'm a comic. I do stand up comedy. And there are jobs that standup comics can have in show business. And you know it because you got the opportunity to host a talk show and it's a grind and it's not, you know, either you have. Either you are that guy or you're not.
- [43:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [43:44]
Marc Maron
And. But what was your feeling about that.
- [43:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
Going away when that went away, when the show went away, I was thrilled.
- [43:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Cause I haven't talked to you since before anything.
- [43:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
I mean, the worst thing about having your own show is the amount of people relying on you.
- [43:58]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [43:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
For a job.
- [43:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [44:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
That you stand up. I can be like, I'm never coming back to this place ever again. And I can feel good about it.
- [44:04]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [44:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
But on this job, it was like, well, all these people are employed. If I'm employed.
- [44:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [44:09]
Anthony Jeselnik
I remember them like my producer being like, if you come back in a couple of months, if you don't wait a year, if you come back soon, we can keep the whole crew employed. And I was like, okay, yeah. Instead of taking a break like I needed.
- [44:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [44:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
Let's come right back. So when they cancel it, I was like, thank God that's over.
- [44:25]
Marc Maron
Because, like, either, like, because you. You feel it. Like, I mean, did you feel like you fit that gig?
- [44:30]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, I felt like. I felt like they put too much energy into it. Like they was like, smile more like, be bigger. The studio audience was huge and it was like, it should have been half the size. I wanted to sit down to do my monologue. And they were like, no, we have the Daily show. We have this. You've got to be standing and you've got to walk in because Tosh is just standing. Like, everything was like, about what someone else was doing. So I couldn't do that.
- [44:55]
Marc Maron
But you're also kind of this singular guy. And, you know, I don't ever get the impression that you love talking to people.
- [45:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, but I enjoy jokes. I enjoyed doing a little bit. I got better at the panel as it went on.
- [45:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
But they didn't want the whole show to be panel. Cause it was a weekly show. If it had been a nightly show, would have been all panel and that would have been fine.
- [45:11]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
But I had to come up with bits and I didn't like shooting the bits. I didn't like any of that.
- [45:16]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
The monologue wasn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be.
- [45:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
That I was relieved when that went away. I loved doing Good talk.
- [45:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was kind of like a sillier version of this.
- [45:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
I really enjoyed that. And I'm sad the second season got Covid ed.
- [45:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
But. But I hated the Jaisal Nick offensive. There was some good work in there.
- [45:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
Some truly good work in there. But I didn't like kind of the schedule and definitely didn't like having the bosses. And then it was the passive aggressive notes. It wasn't just like, don't do this, do this. Instead they'd be like, don't do this story. And I'd be like, give me a story to do instead. Because we're looking for anything here.
- [45:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
There's not a lot. And they'd be like, you find something. I'm like, just tell me what to make a joke about and I'll make the joke about it.
- [45:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [45:55]
Anthony Jeselnik
But if you tell me, just don't do that one, then we're doing that one. You know, like, I didn't like.
- [45:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah. What kind producers have some ideas, what's going on, what's in the. What's in the till.
- [46:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. They never did culturally. It was just, please don't do this.
- [46:05]
Marc Maron
Well, it's just so funny because I remember like the, the first time I talked to you, like you had like somewhat a different disposition. I think I feel like then, because I think we broke it down to, you know, we talked about, you know, where you grew up and all that stuff. But it really felt that what was at the core of your reason for your ambition was, you know, fuck you. And it feels like that's still there.
- [46:31]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh yeah.
- [46:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [46:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
It's. I mean, I call myself, I feel like an older punk rocker. Like I'm a 46 year old punk rocker who's kind of like learned a little bit.
- [46:40]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [46:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
But. But I. I've got my, my punk Bonafides. But I don't. I don't. And that's not what I'm thinking about every day. That's not what I'm listening to in the morning.
- [46:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [46:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, I mean, I'm a little more chill.
- [46:50]
Marc Maron
But hasn't your life gotten bigger? I mean, like, then. I mean, like, I remember the. The moment, I think you were doing the talk show and we talked at the store sometimes, and you're like, I'm never flying economy again, ever. Yeah, that's. That's. But that's, like, a big change. But that's just one. But hasn't your life gotten bigger? Don't you feel better about yourself?
- [47:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
You. You feel better and you feel less. There's that stress of, like, am I going to fuck this up? Goes away. When you have your first season of a TV show, you're like, I need this to work.
- [47:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [47:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
Because I don't want this to be my only thing I ever do.
- [47:24]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [47:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know? Or you audition for something and you don't get it, and you're like, oh, shit. Like, I need to make sure. Like, I auditioned for Weekend Update and didn't get the job, obviously. And was just like, that feels like.
- [47:37]
Marc Maron
That would have been good.
- [47:39]
Anthony Jeselnik
I made it a contest. Like, it was me playing.
- [47:42]
Marc Maron
What year was that?
- [47:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was the year before Colin Jost and Michael Che started doing it together. It had been Jost for, like, half a season because Seth Meyers left, and then they were auditioning jost with, like, 10 different people. It was Jost and a person.
- [47:59]
Marc Maron
Okay. That's the power.
- [48:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then it was me by myself.
- [48:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
And it was like, Jimmy Fallon was like, why don't you bring Anthony in? Have him do it by himself. See if that, like. And I had my own jokes. And I, like, took it really seriously and nailed it. And I'm like, I'm a terrible auditioner, but I nailed this.
- [48:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:13]
Anthony Jeselnik
That I made it a difficult decision. And Colin Jost couldn't have been, like, more polite when I showed up there. Everyone was great, but didn't get the job and was so, like, upset. Not just that I didn't get it, but that I came close.
- [48:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:26]
Anthony Jeselnik
That I was like, I have to make sure that my next hour is so good that I'm glad I didn't get the job.
- [48:33]
Marc Maron
And also that you don't have to do anything. That was the big shift is like, I couldn't understand, like, there were periods there where I'd watch your career. Cause I'm a fan and I Like the new special. It's great. But like, there were periods after the talk show, I'm like, what the fuck are you gonna do? But ultimately you just. You're stand up and you built that audience so you don't have to fucking do any of that shit anymore. No, I mean, is there something you'd want to do?
- [48:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
I really love doing Good talk. I would love to come.
- [48:58]
Marc Maron
Which one was that?
- [48:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was a show, we only did six episodes where I would interview a comic for 30 minutes. And it was like a little bit of like, why do you do what you do? And a lot of just silly, like, is this Tim Allen grunting or is it something else? You know, like stupid. We did one you would have loved. It was, Is this a 16 year old girl's Pinterest or Dane Cook's Instagram?
- [49:19]
Marc Maron
And I was like, you had games.
- [49:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes. Like weird. But it was just a silly, fun kind of talk thing to do. That was. That was actually fun to shoot. Fun to write.
- [49:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [49:27]
Anthony Jeselnik
The just on the offensive wasn't fun to write. You know, it was like stressful all week. It felt like doing snl.
- [49:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [49:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, everywhere. You had to. It had to. You had to do it because it was airing at, you know, we had to tape every two and you had.
- [49:38]
Marc Maron
Segments that had to be refilled and you didn't have, you know, you needed to get guests. I mean, when you know you're just gonna be hanging around with a comic. I mean, half of it, the work's done already.
- [49:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
It's so much easier. It's. It's, you know, the studio audience.
- [49:51]
Marc Maron
What happened on that show?
- [49:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
We were doing a second season. We would. We written the entire second season, booked it, and a week before we shot it, Covid hit shut everything down. And then they canceled everything. What network? Everybody. Comedy Central.
- [50:05]
Marc Maron
Really?
- [50:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [50:06]
Marc Maron
Does that even exist anymore?
- [50:08]
Anthony Jeselnik
Barely. It's like a.
- [50:09]
Marc Maron
It's a South park and Workaholics. Right.
- [50:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
And the Daily show. And they still. They could do some. They could sell it off and do something with it. But it still has a couple of things where they might just fold it into Paramount plus.
- [50:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [50:21]
Anthony Jeselnik
And it's dead.
- [50:22]
Marc Maron
I have no. Oh, that's what they did.
- [50:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
They might. It's still like. It's still up in the air. It's still up in the air, but they're just doing Office reruns. But they did like four pilots at the end of last year.
- [50:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [50:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
And they were like, we need to pick up two of these because of the shareholders, like we have to do two new shows. And so I was one of the four shows.
- [50:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then they sold the network, and we're like, all right, we don't have to do anything, so who knows?
- [50:44]
Marc Maron
But you don't want to act.
- [50:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
I would if someone was like, hey, I've got this part. I'd love for you to play it. Like I'm there. Yeah, that never happens. It's happened, like, twice, and I've done it both times. You. You were one of them.
- [50:56]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. For my.
- [50:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
But usually it's like, I haven't auditioned. The last role I auditioned for was Schmidt on the New Girl. Remember that show, the New Girl?
- [51:06]
Marc Maron
Kinda.
- [51:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
It was like. I mean, this was like 15 years ago where I remember I come in and I. And I really worked on this audition.
- [51:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [51:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
I worked with a coach, and I do it and they go, that was great. Can you do it faster? This is a sitcom.
- [51:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [51:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I go, no, like, I don't talk faster. Like, I. This is the. If you want me to be funny, this is how I talk. And they just laughed at me because at that point, I'm a known person. They're like, okay, like, you can. You can leave. But that's funny. And I never auditioned again. If you want me, I'll do it.
- [51:32]
Marc Maron
But do you know how lucky you are that you don't have even remotely have any people pleaser in you?
- [51:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'm grateful. I feel like all the work I've put in the last 22 years now has gotten me to this place where I truly don't have to please anybody. But I feel like people look to me for respect. You've been around long enough that you get this too of a. That was good, Mark. Right?
- [51:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [51:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. You know, right? I don't want to watch your dumb act. I didn't see a fucking second of that.
- [52:04]
Marc Maron
But see, like, I guess, like, there are some people I'll watch for at least for a little while, you know? Like, I. Like, I was on a show with Taylor Thomas and the other night, and I think she's fucking great.
- [52:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
She's great.
- [52:15]
Marc Maron
I mean, she's like the real deal. And she was nervous to perform for me. I'm like. In front of me, I'm like, what are you talking about? I love you. Just don't worry about it.
- [52:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. Why are you scared about this?
- [52:26]
Marc Maron
I used to be the same way, though. You never had that.
- [52:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, of course.
- [52:29]
Marc Maron
Fuck, dude, if I used to. I used to kick guys out of the Cellar. Like, if I was going out at the Cellar and Nutella was in the room, I'd be like, can you just get out of here? I want to figure out how to do this.
- [52:39]
Anthony Jeselnik
I had to go. I remember going to the Cellar and this is when I was working on Fallon. I lived in New York for a couple years. And I go to the Cellar and they're like, steven Wright's here.
- [52:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [52:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I've never met Steven Wright. He's obviously my idol.
- [52:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [52:50]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'm like, oh, my God, Stephen Wright. I can't wait. He's going to see me and be like, oh, my God.
- [52:54]
Marc Maron
Oh.
- [52:54]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I go. I walk out there and there's four people in the audience.
- [52:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [52:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
And one of them is Steven Wright. And I just fucking bomb for 15 minutes.
- [53:02]
Marc Maron
But he was nice, right?
- [53:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then walk out. And he goes. And then he walks out right after the next comic is on stage, he walks out and she goes, you were funny. But in a way that, like, you had to say it. I was like, this doesn't count.
- [53:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [53:13]
Anthony Jeselnik
But he's reached out to me in the last couple of years.
- [53:15]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [53:16]
Anthony Jeselnik
And, you know, said, hello, and, you know, I like your stuff.
- [53:19]
Marc Maron
That life makes sense as a good comparison. Cause it seems like he was just always. Steven Wright didn't, you know, didn't change anything. Kept his audience, did a couple of acting bits here and there when it fit, and now he just lives in the woods.
- [53:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah, but it's the output I want, more output. He put out, like, three hours maybe of total of comedy. I'm like, what if. And I'm sure he has an hour now that if he goes on the road, he has that hour. I want to write, do as many hours as I can before. Before I die, I want to give as many great jokes as I can. Hopefully every special has a handful of brilliant jokes. One great bit, you know, you get that. And as many as I can do of that I want to do. The older guys, there was no reason to have that kind of output, you know, There was no reason to put.
- [54:04]
Marc Maron
Out specials that there wasn't. Yeah. But I think, like, I've done. Fuck, man. Four or five records. Like, four or five. I've done, like, 10 hours.
- [54:14]
Anthony Jeselnik
Sure. But, like, how much of it matters? And I'm not saying this is an insult, but, like, people don't know I did an album. People don't know I did a company.
- [54:21]
Marc Maron
Doesn't that fucking suck? Because, like, when I think about it, you know, I'm still relatively unknown. You know, I mean, people, in terms of the big picture. Like, I'm still a discoverable thing, and I have all these hours that. Some of them were great. There are jokes that. That took me six months to write, and I did them once.
- [54:40]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [54:41]
Marc Maron
And they're gone. And there's part of me that thinks. Do you ever think, like, you know, to go back? Well, I mean, you're younger than me, but sometimes I think, like, I should just go through them and just, you know, do a greatest hit sing just because the jokes are so good.
- [54:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
I remember Jimmy Carr was like, you should do your first album as a Netflix special. Just do those same jokes, but do it. Cause.
- [54:59]
Marc Maron
Cause no one knows them.
- [55:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
In 2009, when I did the album, you couldn't do it wasn't. The idea of doing a special was.
- [55:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
I used to wonder if that had been a special, would my career be further along if I had waited until Netflix came along? Because people don't know I did anything on Comedy Central. If I talk about the roasts and they're like, what are you talking about?
- [55:17]
Marc Maron
Albums? They don't know anything. Who knows about that?
- [55:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, but I. But I go back and listen to those. That first album, that first special on Comedy Central, and I can't listen to it. I almost have a panic attack at how bad I think it is now.
- [55:29]
Marc Maron
Oh, because of the. The way you structure jokes now.
- [55:31]
Anthony Jeselnik
I mean, it's the same structure. I just think I've gotten better. I think everything about it has improved that I see. Some fans will say, you know, I think his first album was the best, and it's all downhill from there. I still like it, but he started out strong and has gotten weaker. I think it's the opposite.
- [55:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think I started out at my weakest and have gotten better. That I don't. I'm not. I don't wax nostalgic for the old.
- [55:52]
Marc Maron
Stuff the way that I don't either. I know. I don't wax nostalgic about anything other than, like, there's a couple of bits I did, and if I'm going to do a bit and commit to it, it's a long bit. And there's one bit I did about thinking I was on a plane that was going to crash that I only did on the John Oliver comedy hour thing, and it took me like, a half a year to get it up and going. And after it was on. There's part of your brain that's sort of like, well, that's out. That's done. And it's just Gone. So I regret people not seeing these.
- [56:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
Bits because of a John. I mean, I've burned things. Everything's been in each hour. There's nothing that I've, like, left out. Unless it was like a roast joke. Right. That I would leave in a roast. But otherwise it can be on John Oliver and in the hour. But once it's the hour, it's done. But you are. You're always evolving and talking about your life. So could you even go back and do those old.
- [56:45]
Marc Maron
No, because, like, I'm not worked up like that anymore.
- [56:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [56:48]
Marc Maron
But I do find that I'm kind of like that. Other than me getting older, my life hasn't changed, you know, that much. You know, I have a couple of new cats, and I think I'm thinking about things a little differently, like, right now. Like, I did. I did all the fascist shit the last special. It was all in there. The Trump stuff is all in there. And, you know, and I was ahead of the curve on that. And now, like, you know, what do I do now in terms of how I'm dealing with this? And I gotta figure that out because that's the prison I'm in. I speak from a personal point of view. So what am I doing for my sad, anxious fans who need a little help? It's very. When you look at your fan, it's so funny to me. Like, I watch the people come into the theaters that I'm doing and they're just like, you know, they seem like decent, you know, thoughtful, you know, creative people. Some of them are, you know, middle aged, some of them are a little younger, but they're all just sort of. I can tell what they are. They're sensitive people that are nervous about things and they want some relief. Like now, going into this new administration, I'm like, how am I going to make them feel better? You know, like, my shows start to feel like this is safe space. We're going to talk freely here.
- [57:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
But do you think, like, if you just unplugged and just didn't know anything about what was going on with the administration, you could still come up with an hour that would do that for people? Sure. Without making yourself miserable?
- [58:08]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah, I think so. And I've been pretty clear in terms of the last two hours. I'll do like 15, 20 on that and then 40 on the other things, you know, the bigger pieces. But, like, I don't know, man. I think what's really getting to me is that the gloating, like you said earlier, I just know they're out there, and I know they're in the room, and they're like, hey, loser, it didn't go your way, did it? It bothers me.
- [58:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
You think they think that about you? I mean, you had the OG Original podcast.
- [58:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [58:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
Like, do you have a Patreon?
- [58:39]
Marc Maron
No.
- [58:40]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. See, I think it's embarrassing to have a Patreon.
- [58:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [58:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
I would never. Not in a million years.
- [58:45]
Marc Maron
I don't even have a YouTube presence. I have no YouTube presence.
- [58:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah, but you've made so much money off of your podcast.
- [58:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [58:51]
Anthony Jeselnik
And done such great work.
- [58:53]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [58:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
These guys can't possibly be looking down at you.
- [58:55]
Marc Maron
Well, they. Well, what they do is if you quantify success with money and the type of money they're talking about and the type of fame they're talking about in terms of winning or clicks and that kind of shit, I'm in a different model, dude.
- [59:08]
Anthony Jeselnik
Sure.
- [59:08]
Marc Maron
And. And that sort of thing about, like, when you talk critically about something, you're just jealous. I'm like, no, it's not. It's got nothing to do with jealousy.
- [59:16]
Anthony Jeselnik
When people say. I'm like, who would I trade places with? Tell me who you think I would switch seats with on this bus?
- [59:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [59:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
In a million years. Like, there's no way. I like. Good for you. This. This podcast. Your podcast. Patreon, Pandemic Money. That's great. All that goes away.
- [59:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [59:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
People don't understand overexposure. All of a sudden, people don't understand, you know, leave them wanting more. That I think if I was getting out of college now, and I've talked to comics about this, I would not want to become a comedian because of what it is now. And there's some guys. You see the crowd, work clips. I'm like, you're young kids. You have. You kind of have to do this, I guess. But there are people who are my age doing this podcasting shit, that I'm just like, I hate you. I hate that we are considered to have the same job.
- [60:04]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, look, I understand in terms of, like, you know, what I set out to do with this thing and what it evolved into and the fact that we're still an audio podcast. You know, I feel like, you know, we're in the era of television, and, you know, I'm still on the radio on some level, but, you know, a lot of my listeners are like that. But to speak to what you're talking about, though, there is no overexposure now, because amateurs are the winners. That if people. It seems to me, that audiences feel like if they kind of know the guy, that that's enough. So it'll evolve. Not like a show, like it'll evolve like, oh, this is the guy we listen to twice a week. And he's gonna tell stories that we understand from what he was like. And it's not even really comedy.
- [60:42]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think you can get too big to fail, But I think there will be a backlash building as you overexpose yourself too much. I think I'm lucky in that I put out a special. Yeah, I can. I can promote it. Then you'll see me in five years. Like, I've got to write the new hour. I've got to go on the road. That's what the last one took. And that was the pandemic kind of knocked me off for. Yeah, Usually it take a year or two to write it.
- [61:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [61:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, a year of comedy clubs and then a year of theaters and then the special comes out. So it's like, it takes a long time.
- [61:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [61:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
Where some of these guys announce one tour after the next and just keep on taping these specials. It seems insane to me.
- [61:18]
Marc Maron
Well, but see, that's. Man. I mean, whatever comedy was when I got into it or whatever I think comedy is, it's definitely different now. I mean, it seems like there is a. There is a group of guys primarily that are, you know, it behooves them to even churn out garbage every year. It's a cash grab culture, you know, and it was always sort of that way. If you. If you hit a certain level, like you're saying, and you've got a window of opportunity to capitalize on it, you do it because, you know it's not going to last forever. And I kind of get that. But the type of money and the type of scope of it is, and I really think it's more of a. I don't even know why people go to arenas to see comedy. I would never even think to do it.
- [62:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't know why people go to arenas to see bands. Exactly. It's a terrible way to see anything. I get why the comics want to do it. I don't understand how Madison Square Garden has become this, like, this myth, like a new club. Like, I got to do. I was lucky enough to do. Not Sydney Opera House, so even I got to do that too. But Carnegie Hall.
- [62:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [62:22]
Anthony Jeselnik
I was so happy.
- [62:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I did that.
- [62:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I go. And they're like, next time you come to the New York Comedy Festival, we'll have you do Madison Square Garden.
- [62:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [62:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I was like, why do I give a fuck about Madison Square? Like, this is what, this is it for me.
- [62:33]
Marc Maron
Carnegie.
- [62:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
This is the coolest place I could be in. And it was amazing. I loved it. From now on, I want to do just, like, nicer theaters.
- [62:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [62:40]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, I don't ever want to do an arena ever, but that's nice. Theater is a lot of fun for me.
- [62:45]
Marc Maron
Well, that's, well, that's who won, you know, coming out of COVID and coming out of, like, the shift in entertainment dollars. The guys who won were the fucking promoters and the booking agents because they started to realize, like, they got this racket going. Why not just keep going bigger and bigger? That's how you win.
- [63:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [63:01]
Marc Maron
I don't know. Like, if I really think about whether it's jealousy or not, it's like, I don't know what I would do in an arena. I, I, I've done a, I've done shows. Like, I did comics come home at the, you know, for Leary at the Garden in Boston, it was fine, but it's not my jam, dude.
- [63:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
No.
- [63:19]
Marc Maron
You know, I like to bring it in.
- [63:21]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. I don't like to, like, I did it, I did it for Chris Rock in Europe. Did like, they had to do 12 minutes. It was fine. But I was like, I know. I wouldn't want to do this, but your jokes come.
- [63:31]
Marc Maron
But they can play. You can play to that, though. You're, you're, you're, you work.
- [63:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. I mean, I could do it. It's just not nearly as fun as just a beautiful. I like the beauty of the theater. The arena just seemed. Everyone looks uncomfortable, you know, it's like they're all crammed in. Like, everyone's trying to find their seats. Like, it just. Everyone's got their phone in bags. They're all mad about that. Like, I just don't like that. I don't want that to be part of my system. It's like the same with merch. I don't sell merch after shows. I have a thing where it's like a QR code.
- [64:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [64:01]
Anthony Jeselnik
Where you can click on it and you can buy it on your phone, and I'll pay for the shipping to get to you because I don't want to carry a box of fucking shirts in. And some guys have, like, a line out the door, and they're selling everything from matchbooks to sweatshirts, and they meet everybody and they make more from the merch than they do from the shows. But I just don't want to be.
- [64:19]
Marc Maron
A salesman, but that's a whole other job.
- [64:21]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yes.
- [64:21]
Marc Maron
I haven't sold merch in years. I'm also not greedy. I'm good. I'm good.
- [64:26]
Anthony Jeselnik
I put out the merch. I'm like, if you want a shirt, I can see how you would want a shirt like, here. Yeah, but I don't want.
- [64:31]
Marc Maron
You have to have it on stage with you. The QR code never.
- [64:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
They might put it up. Before, I used to do a thing where I'm like, I've got shirts out there. And then someone was like, hey, man, it's a great show. Why do you, like, diminish it by promoting your shirts at the end? And I was like, you got it. You are right.
- [64:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [64:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'm gonna stop doing this.
- [64:48]
Marc Maron
So, like, how annoyed are you about at this point? Like, does do things shift now that Trump is one? And, you know, there's this idea that these pseudo free speech warriors now have, you know, the ability and the incentive to just do their shitty jokes without reprisal. How bothered are you still by it?
- [65:12]
Anthony Jeselnik
Not really. Yeah, because they're bad jokes. Like, if they were great jokes, and I was like, oh, my God, that's such a great joke. I don't agree with what they're saying, but what a great joke. Yeah, maybe that would bother me. But I'm like, if this is what you want, you know, if you want to eat McDonald's every day, I'm not going to argue with you. I'm over here cooking up steaks, and that's just all I can focus on is what I'm doing. But if you want that shit, okay. I just. I just can't imagine being a part of that group. I can't imagine I'm going to hang out with those people.
- [65:43]
Marc Maron
Did you ever feel like you were being like they were trying to draw you in?
- [65:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
No. I mean, you've known me for long. I've never been a hey, let's hang out. I think that's why we're friends. It's because we've never once been like, let's go do something.
- [65:57]
Marc Maron
I don't know what we would do.
- [65:58]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. It's just like, I want to. I'll see a couple minutes of the guy who goes before me, and I'm gone right after the set. Like, I don't want to hang out. I don't want to do any of that shit.
- [66:07]
Marc Maron
I'll hang out a little. You hang out a little. Because, like, you know, I start to realize that, you know, that, you know, being Backstage at the Comedy Store or in the hallway. You know, it keeps me kind of engaged. And there's a couple people I like to watch. There are people that make me laugh. And it's part of my social life. I don't stay there that long.
- [66:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [66:26]
Marc Maron
But I like to just hang out and. Yeah, you've hung out before. There was that. You were there when Burr lost his shit at me. You remember we were in the dressing room, and Burr started going after. I remember being like, there was a moment there where you were sitting there, and Burr was sitting there, and he just goes on. He just starts yelling about due process. He was talking about a comic who got canceled, and he was yelling at me. And I. Because I had this moment where I'm like, well, Jeslyn, I can't just take this. I got to fucking stand up for myself. I'm like, the fuck you? And we were going at it, and it didn't really go anywhere. And then he, you know, we. Someone wanted to take a picture, and he kind of apologized. And you got to deal with that with Bill where, you know, you have these outbursts, and he's like, hey, I'm sorry, man.
- [67:13]
Anthony Jeselnik
See, when Bill does the outburst, I just take it and I just think of all the things that I would have said.
- [67:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [67:18]
Anthony Jeselnik
You know, but I'm just like, get it out of your system. And it's happened once or twice, but I'm like, just go, bill.
- [67:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it's.
- [67:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
Oh, really?
- [67:23]
Marc Maron
You don't even know something. Yeah.
- [67:25]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, because if you. If you've played Devils, if you just, like, say anything, it just amps him up even more that I'm like, you're going through something. He's always going, whatever you're yelling about, you're not really mad about that.
- [67:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [67:36]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'll let you get this out of your system.
- [67:37]
Marc Maron
It's such a relief when he's just okay. Where he's, like, either tired or just sort of, like, wants to talk about music.
- [67:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [67:43]
Marc Maron
But a lot of times, like, you know, he'll walk into the place like, here we go. I'm like, I didn't even do anything. I didn't say anything. So when you think about, like. Cause I think about stopping every year. I mean, I did a whole tour that was like, this might be the last time. Cause I don't ever know where the hour's gonna come from, but it comes. But, like, I do think about, like, stopping. What do you think about doing if you stop?
- [68:09]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think I would have to be able to Write at least a decent novel. If I wrote a book I like, I don't know if you've read the new Sally Rooney book that came out a few months ago, but in her interview, she was like, I don't care how the book is received. The reward is that I get to keep writing. I get to be a writer. So I've written enough good books that are popular that I don't care about this new one. I'm happy that people will like it and buy it, but I'm already working on the next one that I enjoy the work. I enjoy actually writing the new hour more than I do like being on tour.
- [68:42]
Marc Maron
It's like problem solving, kind of.
- [68:45]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. It's like you're putting in the work. You're working with the soil. You're pulling something out of nothing. And I just like, after doing it, the sixth time now will be even more gratifying. And I like to see where that comes from. And if on the side, I might try to write a book just to keep myself writing on days where I'm like, the jokes aren't coming. And I try to do longer form.
- [69:03]
Marc Maron
Have you done long form?
- [69:04]
Anthony Jeselnik
I tried to do. I pitched a book after the Jess Offensive got canceled. I was like, I fuck this, I just want to write a book. And then I like, I got it.
- [69:14]
Marc Maron
To who?
- [69:15]
Anthony Jeselnik
I didn't pitch to anyone yet. I got an agent and he was like, here's my idea. And he was like, great, I can easily sell that. I can get you this much money. Write 25 pages of it and send it to me. And I got five pages in and I was like, this sucks. I hate this. I'm going back to stand up that if I had. If I really made myself write, like a novel, you know, like a story, and just made myself do it. Yeah, then maybe. But even then, I think I'd still enjoy getting on stage. Like, I still love. I loved. I was in pain for most of this tour, but every time I was on stage, I was happy.
- [69:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I know. There's something about it, like, to be on stage for people who want to see you, that's pretty great because you have a freedom. You can kind of open up and you also.
- [69:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
You also feel just how it grows, you know, this tour was double the size of my previous one. And I had no idea. We didn't know until. Because, like, the clips, you know, TikTok and Instagram taken off so much that I kind of doubled what I expected to do. So that was gratifying.
- [70:14]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [70:14]
Anthony Jeselnik
So even to go to the idea of going back out and seeing how much bigger it gets, and once it starts shrinking again, maybe that's when I'm like, you know what? Fuck this.
- [70:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I think I'm doing all right with sales. I got to go out. I had to put off the tour to do this movie, and now I got to go out in January to kind of, you know, get it back in shape to do the HBO special. And then. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know.
- [70:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
You don't like. There's nothing that.
- [70:39]
Marc Maron
Are you off the fucking nicotine?
- [70:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
No, I'm still on it.
- [70:42]
Marc Maron
What are you doing?
- [70:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
I've got these things. What do you have? I've got the things I gave you, the ons. Yeah.
- [70:47]
Marc Maron
You're still on those?
- [70:48]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [70:49]
Marc Maron
You don't like those ins.
- [70:50]
Anthony Jeselnik
I never tried Zinn. I just never like. And like, you know, Carlson's. I'm not gonna sway me into going to Zins. But. Yeah, I just. I had my assistant buy a ton of these before I went to the Fours. Yeah. Before I went off to Europe and I had, like, just.
- [71:04]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I remember that. You still have more.
- [71:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. But I mean, once I'm done with these, I'm done with it. Yeah. It just gotten gross. I'm just like, you know, I did it for two years on the road. I'll go back to the lozenges. You know, something that's.
- [71:16]
Marc Maron
It's like. Like I. I don't know. Like, I've got two in my mouth right now.
- [71:23]
Anthony Jeselnik
I need to misbehave in some way. I don't drink anymore. I gotta smoke a little weed. And I like this. I had quit. I was off, like, two weeks. And then I started the theater tour. And I was starting in New Orleans. It was so goddamn hot that I was, like, dying, and my brother had some of these on nicotine things. And I was like, give me one of those.
- [71:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [71:42]
Anthony Jeselnik
And it made my whole day better that I was like, you know what? For the tour took the edge off. Let me just have this.
- [71:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I don't. The awns are just. The packets are too small. The only reason I like the zins are bigger. They kind of stay lodged better. Those awns, I'll lose them.
- [71:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
Never tried a Zinn, but maybe I will. But I can feel it in my gut. Like, I'll go to the dentist and they'll be like, your gums look. Don't look great. You know, so I'm like, okay, let me knock this off.
- [72:04]
Marc Maron
What are they saying about them? They look.
- [72:06]
Anthony Jeselnik
I mean, they look, like, inflamed, you know, and it's like, here, we're going to give you this treatment. Like, you're fine. They're not like, we're worried about you, but I know what's doing it, so. Yeah.
- [72:15]
Marc Maron
My gums have always been fucked up, and I'm always worried about them because they were always recessed.
- [72:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
I mean, I have. I'm still dealing with the teeth grinding thing that I'm like, one day.
- [72:23]
Marc Maron
That hasn't affected your gums? Because my bite. The guy said it affects my gums.
- [72:27]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think it's. It's affected my bite for sure. And I think it must be doing something to them that I. I could never get veneers, you know, or any of that, like, dental shit people get.
- [72:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [72:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
Just because I would just. I would crush right through it, the way I sleep.
- [72:39]
Marc Maron
Did you. Have you thought about getting them?
- [72:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
No. None of that's ever occurred to me. Just because of what I've got going on.
- [72:45]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [72:46]
Anthony Jeselnik
With my grinding.
- [72:47]
Marc Maron
How long are you in town for?
- [72:49]
Anthony Jeselnik
Forever. I mean, I go home for Christmas, but I'm. The tour's done. Tour's done.
- [72:54]
Marc Maron
So what, are you gonna start going to the store again?
- [72:55]
Anthony Jeselnik
I'm gonna start going to the store in the Improv and Largo probably in January. I've got about 40, 50 jokes right now that, like, I haven't looked through to see are these even worth trying out. But I think I might go to Largo for a little bit. Going to the store, it still feels like. Like I'm the name on the marquee. And if I'm going out and just reading jokes, I don't like doing that.
- [73:16]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [73:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
But I don't really know what the alt shows are anymore.
- [73:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [73:19]
Anthony Jeselnik
I could just say I can call Flanny at Largo and be like, hey, what do you got? Like, let me jump up in front of, you know, the Sklar Brothers.
- [73:24]
Marc Maron
Or you could just do, like. You could do shows at Dynasty.
- [73:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't want to drive the Dynasty.
- [73:30]
Marc Maron
I'm lazy in Korea town.
- [73:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [73:33]
Marc Maron
Too much.
- [73:33]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. I did it once.
- [73:35]
Marc Maron
That's it.
- [73:36]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [73:36]
Marc Maron
I go try to work out hours there. It's almost like Anonymous or the Elysian.
- [73:40]
Anthony Jeselnik
Are you. So once I have enough. Once I have, like, 20 minutes, I'll do my own Largo show when that's where I work out, like, everything I got.
- [73:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [73:47]
Anthony Jeselnik
And I'm trying to work on, like, a longer form story that might be the place to do it. But I feel like if I'm going to the store, there's like a pressure on me at the store. There's a pressure on me at the improv. Unless I'm like just dropping in. Yeah, I hate, I hate the drop in system. But I'll be getting up in January.
- [74:02]
Marc Maron
I remember like there was a point where, and I always think about it as a shift in your demeanor was years ago we were in the store, you know, there was this. There was talk of it closing, the store closing. And you were like, who gives a fuck? It's just a comedy room. And I'm like, but it's a comedy. And you're like, I don't give a fuck. But I think you've shifted a little bit.
- [74:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't know how much I've shifted.
- [74:28]
Marc Maron
You love the store.
- [74:29]
Anthony Jeselnik
I love the store. But I'm get. There are things I love about the store versus the improv.
- [74:35]
Marc Maron
I don't ever go the improv or the laugh.
- [74:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
I like that. The improv. You can kind of get in and get out a little easier. Like the parking lot is like a block away.
- [74:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [74:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
So you can kind of just park, go in right in, right into your set and get out. Whereas the store, you've got to pull into that lot. You've got to walk through the gauntlet of open micros. You've got to see everybody. You gotta talk to the employees. But what about the room? I love, I love the main room. But I haven't been in so long that I've heard it's like a different thing. I've heard people aren't happy in the main room.
- [75:03]
Marc Maron
Really.
- [75:04]
Anthony Jeselnik
Because they're doing two shows.
- [75:06]
Marc Maron
Oh yeah. That early one, that late one. Yeah.
- [75:07]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then the late show doesn't sell but they split the money up in between the two.
- [75:12]
Marc Maron
So you got all one money now. It used to be all one money. Like you know, the night was everyone got paid over the arc of both shows. And I think what's happened is the people who are on the late show get the percentage of that show and the people on the early show get the percentage of that show.
- [75:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
You might be right. I think it's the opposite of it used to be you got it for that one show and now they're combining them. Oh, and now people are mad because they're like I'm doing the early show but I'm getting no money. And it's not that I'm doing it for the money, but I Love that main room. The vibe.
- [75:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [75:43]
Anthony Jeselnik
I know I wasn't a big or guy, but I would do it to work on stuff. But I love the main room.
- [75:49]
Marc Maron
But you like the improv.
- [75:50]
Anthony Jeselnik
I do. And the improv comes and goes. I didn't do the improv for years.
- [75:54]
Marc Maron
Cars used to get robbed in that part.
- [75:55]
Anthony Jeselnik
And then started going. Started going back. And Rita was like, please come. And I'm like, I've been loving it since then.
- [76:01]
Marc Maron
There's something about. I have a beef not with the Hollywood improv in particular, but the operation that books all the other improvs.
- [76:11]
Anthony Jeselnik
Sure.
- [76:12]
Marc Maron
And it's a personal thing.
- [76:14]
Anthony Jeselnik
That's how I'm with the funny bone. I haven't done a funny bone in 15 years.
- [76:17]
Marc Maron
What's the beef?
- [76:17]
Anthony Jeselnik
I got in a fight with the guy, Dave Stroop.
- [76:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I remember that guy.
- [76:20]
Anthony Jeselnik
Books the Columbus funny bone. I get into town Wednesday night, and this is before. This is maybe like right after the roast.
- [76:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [76:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
But I'm still, like, doing. Doing clubs. But I'm. I'm. I sold out the weekend.
- [76:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [76:32]
Anthony Jeselnik
I get in on Wednesday night at like, 11 o'clock, and no one's there. And my only contact is Stroop. And I call him and he's like, hello? I'm like, yeah. He's like, oh, I thought you coming in tomorrow. I'm like, you thought I was coming in after the first show of the weekend? I'm like, I'm gonna take a cab to the hotel. And he goes, no, I didn't book your hotel tonight. I got to come get you. I'll be there in an hour. And I'm like, the fuck? I wait an hour and it's now like one Am I.
- [76:54]
Marc Maron
So your first show was Thursday?
- [76:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [76:56]
Marc Maron
Okay.
- [76:57]
Anthony Jeselnik
So he takes me to the hotel Wednesday. I've got to take you to this one because the one I'm putting you in isn't available tonight.
- [77:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [77:02]
Anthony Jeselnik
So you're going to be in this one. I'll pick you up for radio tomorrow and I'll take you to the other hotel. And I'm like, all right, man. We get in the car and he's like, oh, and by the way, your opener you brought out. She's not opening. I have an opener. It's not in your contract that you get an opener. And I'm like, what is going on? Why are you being a dick to me? Yeah, you've been a dick this whole time. What's happening? And he's like, well, probably shouldn't tell you this, but Your agent and I got into beef about the last. His last client who was through here, kind of raked me of the coals, so I'm taking it out on you. And I was like, huh? And I called my agent and I was like, I'm going to get in a plane right now. And he's like, don't. Don't punish your fans. Do the shows. I'll talk to Dave and tell him to, like, leave you alone. And I didn't speak to him the whole weekend. And at the end, he was like, are we good? And I was like, I'm never doing any of your clubs ever again. And I have not. I don't know if he's still there, but I have not done a.
- [77:52]
Marc Maron
He was like, the owner, wasn't he?
- [77:53]
Anthony Jeselnik
I think he's just the manager.
- [77:55]
Marc Maron
Just a manager.
- [77:56]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [77:56]
Marc Maron
Well, you don't have to do comedy clubs anymore. Really?
- [77:59]
Anthony Jeselnik
I like them.
- [78:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah, me too.
- [78:00]
Anthony Jeselnik
I like doing them.
- [78:01]
Marc Maron
That Columbus Room was all right.
- [78:03]
Anthony Jeselnik
Columbus. I don't like the malls.
- [78:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [78:05]
Anthony Jeselnik
And even that are in a mall. But I do like. I love the improvs. I love Stand Up Live is cool. And what's the. There's, like, a new one. Yeah.
- [78:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah. That's good.
- [78:14]
Anthony Jeselnik
I love. I love the big ones.
- [78:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [78:16]
Anthony Jeselnik
And there's a new one that's like. Spokane has one.
- [78:20]
Marc Maron
Helium.
- [78:21]
Anthony Jeselnik
That's not. Is it a helium?
- [78:23]
Marc Maron
I don't know.
- [78:24]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't know if it's a helium. Oklahoma City.
- [78:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I don't know.
- [78:28]
Anthony Jeselnik
They're all the same color, but I liked. I enjoyed those.
- [78:30]
Marc Maron
Oh, this is a new one. Like, they. It's got, like, a weird name, like a rattlesnake or something. Weird. I don't know.
- [78:35]
Anthony Jeselnik
I don't remember.
- [78:35]
Marc Maron
But there's a new chain.
- [78:37]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah.
- [78:37]
Marc Maron
All right.
- [78:38]
Anthony Jeselnik
Yeah. Pretty cool.
- [78:39]
Marc Maron
Well, great. Special.
- [78:40]
Anthony Jeselnik
Thank you.
- [78:41]
Marc Maron
Good talking to you.
- [78:41]
Anthony Jeselnik
Thank you. Always a pleasure.
- [78:47]
Marc Maron
There you go, Jeselnik. Still at it. Still pushing the envelope. Bones and all. Premieres on Netflix tomorrow. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, we've got the latest Ask Mark Anything episode tomorrow for full Marin subscribers. We've done 17 of these so far, and you can still listen to all of them as part of the Full Marin in Too Real while imitating Mick Jagger. You fell flat on the floor. It was among the funniest things I've seen on stage. How much practice, if any, did that move require? A lot of practice. I had to do it a lot of times for the timing of it. You know, I'm not naturally a physical comic so when I decide to do a big piece of physical comedy, I do have to rehearse it a lot. Like not. Not unlike the the bat bit at the end of From Bleak to Dark, I had to figure out the timing. I had to figure out how many times I'm going to hit myself in the head with the bat. You know, the pacing of the reaction being hit with the bat. And it was the same with falling down. When do I fall down? How do I fall down? How do I not hurt myself? What's the timing on the fall? So, yeah, it was all thought out. It was not a random thing and I had done it many times. And there is sort of once you lock in to the physical comedy thing, there is a timing you have to work out. So it did take many times to make that exactly work. Make sure you're signed up to hear my new answers tomorrow, just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some Here's a riff from back in the day. Boomer lives monkey and the Fonda cat ends everywhere.