Episode 1608 - Richard Gadd

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast Episode 1608 - Richard Gadd Release Date: January 13, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 1608 of the "WTF with Marc Maron" podcast, host Marc Maron welcomes Richard Gadd, a multifaceted talent known for his work as a writer, actor, comedian, and the creator of the acclaimed Netflix series "Baby Reindeer." The episode delves deep into Richard's personal and professional journey, exploring how he transforms profound personal trauma into compelling artistic expressions.

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Richard Gadd's Background and Early Career

Richard Gadd begins by sharing his origins in Scotland, where he grew up in the small town of Wormit, near Dundee. His early interest in comedy was sparked during his time at Glasgow University, where he pursued an English Literature and Theatre Studies degree. Richard recounts his initial foray into acting, notably landing the role of Macbeth in his school's production despite his unfamiliarity with Shakespearean language.

Notable Quote:

"I remember getting cast as Macbeth without even understanding the language. It was a complete disaster at first, but it ignited my passion for theater and storytelling."
— Richard Gadd [16:52]

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Transition to Comedy and Stand-Up

While at university, Richard discovered his love for comedy, heavily influenced by British sitcoms like "The Office." He began writing sketches and performing stand-up, creating high-concept shows that often blended comedy with personal narratives. His early shows, such as "Monkey See Monkey Do" and "Cheese and Crack Whores," were experimental and sometimes polarizing, showcasing his unique approach to humor.

Notable Quote:

"My early shows were high-concept and often misunderstood. People either loved the absurdity or couldn't grasp the depth behind the humor."
— Richard Gadd [21:27]

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Facing Personal Trauma Through Art

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Richard's personal struggles, including experiences with sexual abuse and stalking. These traumatic events profoundly influenced his work, leading him to create deeply personal performances that blend comedy with raw emotional honesty. Richard explains how his shows became a medium for processing and expressing his trauma.

Notable Quote:

"Creating these shows was my way of piecing myself back together. It was painful, but essential."
— Richard Gadd [44:56]

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Creation and Impact of "Baby Reindeer"

Richard discusses the evolution of his one-man show "Baby Reindeer," which was later adapted into the Netflix series. The show combines elements of comedy, theater, and personal storytelling to navigate themes of abuse, identity, and recovery. He emphasizes the importance of breaking silence and using art as a means of healing.

Notable Quote:

"Baby Reindeer is not just a show; it's a conversation starter. It's about breaking the silence and finding resilience through storytelling."
— Richard Gadd [53:54]

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Navigating the Entertainment Industry

The episode delves into Richard's experiences within the entertainment industry, highlighting both the challenges and triumphs he's faced. From struggling with unconventional comedy stages to garnering critical acclaim for his work, Richard shares insights into maintaining authenticity amidst external pressures.

Notable Quote:

"Being true to my voice was always tougher than following the crowd, but it led me to projects that truly resonate with me."
— Richard Gadd [62:21]

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Future Projects and Personal Growth

Looking ahead, Richard expresses enthusiasm for new ventures, including a limited series titled "Half Man," which diverges from his previous work by exploring fictional worlds and characters outside of his personal experiences. He reflects on the growth he's achieved through his artistic journey and his commitment to continuous evolution.

Notable Quote:

"Stepping into creating fictional worlds gives me a fresh perspective and a chance to explore different facets of storytelling."
— Richard Gadd [72:17]

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on Richard's journey of self-discovery and healing through art. Marc and Richard discuss the importance of vulnerability in creative expression and the impact it can have on both the artist and the audience. Richard's candid sharing underscores the therapeutic power of storytelling and the courage it takes to confront personal demons publicly.

Notable Quote:

"Art has this amazing ability to dwarf the magnitude of our struggles, allowing us to find meaning and connection in the process."
— Richard Gadd [63:03]

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Key Takeaways

• Art as Healing: Richard Gadd utilizes comedy and theater as tools to process and articulate personal trauma, demonstrating the therapeutic potential of creative expression.

• Breaking Silences: Through "Baby Reindeer," Richard addresses difficult subjects like sexual abuse, encouraging open conversations and breaking societal stigmas.

• Authenticity in Creativity: Maintaining authenticity in his work, despite challenges and misunderstanding, has been pivotal in Richard's artistic success and personal growth.

• Evolution of Storytelling: Transitioning from personal monologues to fictional narratives, Richard continues to expand his storytelling repertoire, showcasing versatility and a commitment to explore new creative horizons.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive conversation between Marc Maron and Richard Gadd.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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You can challenge yourself anywhere with Peloton's All Access membership. Work out at home or take your favorite classes on the go and at the gym with the Peloton app. Find your push, find your power with [e-mail] Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Wtf. Welcome to it. I'm okay for now. Cats are safe. Kit is safe. Winds are picking up today. I don't, I don't know what to do with that. I don't imagine anybody has the brain to manage what is happening out here. I'll talk about that in a second. But I did pull myself away from the panic of being home and the need to be close to the Cats if we needed to evacuate to go do a couple of gigs because I felt like I had to. Because if I didn't show up for that and I look again, I. This situation out here is fluid and it's tragic and it's fucking incomprehensible. I went up to Sacramento in Napa at Sacramento Friday night and I, you know, I flew up there. Allie Nikovsky came with me and she opened. But I was, you know, in shock and traumatized and fucked up and I had to move through it. And I did it on stage for an audience that was incredibly supportive and understanding and understood what was happening in the world, the world of their state, Los Angeles. People had friends, family there, here, and it was kind of an epic experience for me to move through my feelings in real Time, which is really what I do. And I had not done an hour in a while. And that was an incredible, incredible night. And then we went to Napa. We did a show in Napa. That audience was difficult. It was tricky. I had a couple of outbursts. Not outbursts. One was supportive. Woman needed to give me a gift, and she needed to do that in the middle of the show and tell me how much she loved me. And she gave me her little knitted cat and her brass Ganesh, which is actually very nice. But it was. It was interesting when that happens, and I could handle it. And then we had a drunk woman who was yelling, and that had to be dealt with. So it was a lot of up and down and me still being in a fairly fucked up, traumatized, vulnerable place and wanting to do the material that requires a certain presence of openness. It was hard to kind of wrangle the anger in when, you know, people are disruptive or, you know, it's disjointed. But, you know, that's the nature of comedy. And we did okay today on the show. I've got Richard Gad here. He's the writer, actor, comedian, and the creator of the Netflix series Baby Reindeer, which had a profound effect on me. I don't know if you've seen it, but to me it was deep and it was courageous and it was fucked up and amazing. He won three Emmys for the show, and his performance is nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award. And I'll give you a little more preface to him in a minute, hopefully. I'll be in Fort Collins, Colorado, at the Lincoln Center Performance hall on Friday, January 17th. This Friday, Boulder, at the Boulder Theater on January 18th. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California, at the Lobero Theater on Thursday, the 30th. San Luis Obispo, California, at Fremont center on the Friday, the 31st. Monterey, California, at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, the 1st, Iowa City at the Englert Theater on February 13th. It's a Thursday. Des Moines, Iowa, at the Hoyt Sherman place on Friday, February 14, and Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15. And then I'll be doing shows in North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan. You can go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Knowing what to do in the face of what's happening, it's. It's difficult. It's been a stressful and terrible few days out here. These fires are ongoing, they're terrifying. And I'm I am lucky. As of, of this moment, I'm safe. As I said, the animals are safe. Kid is safe. Kids, animals are safe. Many people have lost everything. And it's, it's just incomprehensible and tragic and, and it's, it's heartbreaking. But it was always a possibility out here. It, it's just, it's just fucking devastating. And I just, I feel awful for so many people that are dealing with the destruction of their entire lives. Entire communities were decimated. It looks like a nuclear bomb went off in some parts of LA county. And quite honestly, having been there, it feels a little bit like post 911 here in terms of the collective trauma that people are moving through. There was always the possibility of this. It was part of the, the devil's bargain you exist with to live in this city. Earthquakes, fires. Some part of you was in enough denial or blind faith to just accept it and hope for the best. Those days are fucking over, man. It just seems that if you are a rational person, you would move as quickly as possible from this fucking city. And I imagine many will. And I am making plans. I mean, fuck it, this has always been possible and it's fucking time to go. It's unsustainable. I mean, checking the app for fires every few minutes. And then I realized while doing that, that this feeling of needing to check to see if you are in the path of destruction over and over, that it's going to be a lot like checking your newsfeed after January 20th. Where's the fire? What has he done? Am I safe? Can I live my life freely without overwhelming fear? I really don't know how I will manage in that much fear. I am sorry about the heaviness. I'm sorry about the heaviness of what I'm talking about, okay? But when it comes to weight loss, there's no one size fits all approach. You all have individual needs and goals. Maybe you have some dietary restrictions or medical issues. 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You know, they bounce back pretty quickly. You know, they just, and they were okay in the hotel room. You know, I really think, you know, when we self evacuated that one night and I put him in the bathroom, you know, chart and then they all started running around the hotel room and well, you know, within an hour I think Charlie could have lived there. He was like, this is okay. I'm okay. Manageable space. You're here. It. This is where we are now. Sammy the was kind of, he came out too into the room and he's like, I don't know where I am, but Charlie's here. And Buster, the intelligent one, the sensitive one, he wedged himself under the bed. But you know, that's the way cats are and that's, you know, it's amazing how attached I am to those cats in these crisis. And now they all have their own carrier for quick transport in the case of fleeing. But you know, you get attached to these animals and I, you know, I've always been amazed at how much my life revolves around them. And I, I don't think that's sad. I think that's just, you know, the way I love the things that I am capable of loving without fear. I mean, I remember when I was divorced, I really, you know, I thought like, maybe I just better move into apartment and let this old house go. The old house. I remember thinking like, I can't do that because, you know, Boomer lives outside and what the hell is he going to do? So I'll just suck it up and take the hit because my outdoor cat would be displaced. Those times have changed. Displacement seems a certainty now. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. If you're new to Squarespace, I've got good news. You're getting the best version of Squarespace that's ever been when you start using it today. Squarespace has always been the best platform to create your online presence. But now Squarespace is even better thanks to cutting edge AI technology that makes building your site even easier with better results. Design intelligence from Squarespace helps you design a more personalized website tailored to your unique needs. This goes way beyond the type of design templates that were available in the past. There are also innovations when it comes to getting you paid. Squarespace Payments is the easiest way to manage your payments in one place. Get started in just a few clicks and start receiving payments right away while giving your customers more ways to pay. And all the standard Squarespace features are still there. The Squarespace video studio, email campaigns, Squarespace analytics, and more. Go to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF so Richard Gad was here a few days ago. It was just a day in, or maybe a day and a half, two days into the horrendous fires out here. And there is a point during the interview where, you know, we get a, an emergency evacuation alert, which turned out to have gone out to too many people. It was not about my neighborhood, but it happened. And you can sort of feel that moment of, of, you know, what are we, what are we doing? Are we leaving? Is it over? Are we, what are we doing? And a couple of things I should set up for this. So in the conversation, you know, we talk about he did a couple of stage shows at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival that were the kind of the basis of Baby Reindeer. And if you haven't seen it, I just want to, you know, in terms of reference here, you know, the Baby Reindeer series was based on a couple of different shows, things from a couple of different shows that Richard did, one being Monkey See Monkey Do. And that was about the, the sexual abuse that he was victim to as an adult by a person in, in the business. And he was drugged and, and abused sexually. And that was from Monkey See Monkey Do. And then there was another show that was actually called Baby Reindeer, which centered around a person who, who wound up stalking him. And, you know, there, there, there's a lot of things going on with that. When he says there are things he can't talk about, it's because Netflix is currently being sued by a woman who alleges that she was the one being depicted in the show. And that is ongoing. But this was an honest and, you know, connected talk. And it's heavy. I mean, it may be triggering for some people in terms of sexual abuse or stalking, but I think it's handled personally and with a certain amount of process. You know, it's grounded. Richard is Also nominated for outstanding performance by a male actor in a miniseries or television movie at the Screen Actors Guild Awards. And I didn't know anything about him, and I actually thought he was a bit older than he was, and I didn't really know the nature of his theatrical work or his standup work. So, you know, it was interesting to talk about that. This is me talking to Richard Gad. I've been in LA this time. Time, you know, for a while, but I was in New York and I was in Boston, San Francisco, a lot of different places. Chasing the dream.

[Richard Gad]

Nice.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, the comedy dream.

[Richard Gad]

Gigging around everywhere.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, when you start out, you want to kind of. You got to find a scene where you can work.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then, you know, figure it out.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. And, boy, does it take a while, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I mean, I have no sense of, like, you know, it's weird. I went to England years ago, near the beginning of the podcast, and I had no sense of that scene there. So it was a little weird because I wanted to interview people. But I did end. I ended up interviewing Stuart Lee, which was great.

[Richard Gad]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

But then I also ended up interviewing Simon Munnery.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, you know him? Simon Munner. You do? Yeah, yeah, I used to do his. He had a thing called Film School.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

Which was a show he did. And I'd always do alternative things that. It was one of my favorite nights to do, actually. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What was it?

[Richard Gad]

It was kind of like he. He would do. It was like a projector and he would do a lot of. It was almost like a comedy show, but he had shadows with it. He was making shadows with his hands and little doodles and pieces of paper.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And he would just almost commentate the shadow movements of his hands. It was quite smart. And then he would get a guest on and I would do five minutes of sort of alternative stuff and then he would come back on.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you came up in that. In that. In. In England.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, I. Well, I came up in Scotland, so I started up off in Scotland and I.

[Marc Maron]

Like where in Scotland?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, So I started off, I. I went to school in Fife in Scotland, and then I went to Glasgow University to do an English degree, English Literature and theatre studies degree, and.

[Marc Maron]

But you grew up there.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I grew up in Scotland, yeah. And then I. I went to Glasgow and I. I started doing it at the student union, and then I started doing it the Stan Comedy Club. And the Stan Comedy Club. The Red Rose on a Tuesday that was why I cut my teeth in a big way.

[Marc Maron]

How long ago is that?

[Richard Gad]

That was 2011, I think. If I think back to.

[Marc Maron]

How old are you?

[Richard Gad]

I'm 35 now.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Come on.

[Richard Gad]

Do you think I was older?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

That's. That's what. That's what my life will do to you. It makes it. I've aged about 10 years more than.

[Marc Maron]

I have, but so 2011. So about what? You know, like 15 years you've been doing stand up.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, about 15 years.

[Marc Maron]

And like, what. What. What was it? What part of Scotland you grow up in? I have no sense of it. Like, I had one, and I've talked about this a lot on the show. I had one horrendous experience at the Fringe that had nothing to do with anything. Like, if I told you about it, you'd be like, that just sounds like the way it is. But for me, it was like a month of just devastation.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. That is what. Even when it goes well, the Fringe can be tough. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny because every time I would gear myself up to go to the Fringe, I would always think to myself, I'm not gonna let it affect me this month.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

It's one hour's work a night, and I just need to get through it. But whatever happened, by the end of the month, I would be like a dead man walking.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

It's so tough, isn't it? The adrenaline, the circus of the city. It's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

It is. And if you don't draw crowds, it's like it's leveling.

[Richard Gad]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember doing a month in. And in fact, that's in Baby Reindeer episode four. I did a month in a pub called the Argyll Bar, which was right out of town almost. People who went to the Fringe didn't go to this evening.

[Marc Maron]

How did you. But who got you that venue? You did.

[Richard Gad]

Oh, I was so new. I got myself that venue, and I was so new that I think they were just like, who is this guy? Let's just give him a really bad venue. And I had to cancel it most nights. Cause nobody came. And then somebody. I remember this one time one person turned up, and I just took them to the bar for a drink instead. So I really. I feel like I earned my stripes in a way, you know?

[Marc Maron]

But, like, when you start out, though, like, what was the area you grew up in?

[Richard Gad]

I grew up in five. Yeah. I grew up in a small town called Warm It. No one's ever really heard of it, but it's About. It's a, it's just if you go to Dundee, which is like the fourth biggest city in Scotland.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

It's just over the water, so. Okay, over the water. It's there.

[Marc Maron]

Is it pretty?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, it's quite pretty. I quite like it. But it's a very small town. It's got one shop and that's it. Like, when I grow up, there's no bar, nothing like. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Brothers and sisters.

[Richard Gad]

Got an older sister. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so like, how do you, what do you do?

[Richard Gad]

Well, not, not very much. I mean, me and my friends would just kind of. I honestly, in a lot of ways I wouldn't change it for the world, but me and my friends would just mess around, kick a football about, write sketches, keep each other entertained.

[Marc Maron]

So you had friends in what, in like grade school that you wrote comedy with?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, well, well, it wasn't really comedy. We just, we just sort of. We did anything to keep ourselves entertained, but it was, it was a town where nothing happened. And if you, if you wanted to go to do something like the Dundee or even St. Andrews.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

You would need somebody to drive you 20 odd minutes to get there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

So there was, there was really nothing to do. But, you know.

[Marc Maron]

But 20 minutes isn't terrible.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. But at the time, in a weird way, it felt like it was quite hard. It felt like quite, quite a kid. Yeah. When you were a kid, you had to wrangle the parents, take you somewhere so you could have some fun.

[Marc Maron]

Like to a movie.

[Richard Gad]

Yo. Yeah, like cinema. You would, it would have to be. You'd have to get your parents, you'd have to find someone's dad who would take all of you along and it was just quite a cut off place, so we had to find our own entertainment. So we just, you know.

[Marc Maron]

But were you inspired by comedy early on?

[Richard Gad]

Oh, massively, yeah. So that was another big way I spent my childhood. I devoured sitcoms, everything like that. I grew up in the age of the Office, you know, what else are you gonna do? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

So you watched the BBC?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I watched the uk. Office was a big inspiration for me growing up over here. Stuff like Arrested Development and I just devoured DVDs really as well with my friends and. Yeah. Just found any ways to distract us.

[Marc Maron]

So when you're hanging out with your friends and you're writing sketches, you're inspired by these shows?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, absolutely. And just, I just, always from a young age, I just felt like I escaped the boredom perhaps. Yeah. By writing sketches and comedy stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Do you think you're like. Do you consider yourself first a writer?

[Richard Gad]

Yes. That's a good question. I think. I'm not sure. I'm honestly not sure how to answer that question. I think may. Maybe. Maybe.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I think the question is, like. Because, like, having spent time in Edinburgh and then, you know, seeing, you know, what the. What that festival expects out of performers, I guess it would really be hard to determine, you know, And I don't know what your career has been like, but, I mean, do you consider yourself, like, you're not. You're obviously not a mainstream comic. So you weren't.

[Richard Gad]

You were.

[Marc Maron]

You weren't touring, you know, comedy clubs, were you?

[Richard Gad]

Well, I tried. I tried, but never with much luck. I would occasionally get the paid gig, but, you know, my stuff was so out there. I mean, you see it kind of in baby reindeer, kind of portrayed. But a lot of comedians, you know, didn't like me being on bills with me because I'd always tip the atmosphere in a kind of peculiar direction.

[Marc Maron]

Peculiar. That's a diplomatic word.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I could kill the atmosphere to the point where, like, people would almost be like. I mean, I've had some terrible gigs. Like, I've been heckled.

[Marc Maron]

Booed at comedy clubs.

[Richard Gad]

At comedy clubs, yeah. Heckled, booed. You know, one guy tried to attack me once, and because I think when. Especially in the kind of classic comedy club sets on the Friday set, people don't want to see what I'm doing. They want escapist laughter and not to see someone trying to subvert the form or whatever, and it would really rub people up the wrong way sometimes. I haven't paid for this. I don't want to see this guy.

[Marc Maron]

Have you seen Stuart Lee?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. Love, Shirley.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I mean, early on, I mean, he. I think he quit comedy not because he would necessarily make the environment peculiar, but just because they weren't getting on board with his groove, you know.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And at some point he stopped and then he came back. And it was a very profound thing to me, when he reframed it for himself coming back, was that instead of being angry at them, he was able to have a certain amount of empathy for the fact that they didn't know what they were getting into. They didn't come expecting that, but there were plenty of people who did. So I don't know if that's the same experience with you. I mean.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah, I have a lot of respect for that. I actually didn't know that I actually didn't know he stepped away and came back, but yeah, I could see why that happens. But he kind of found his audience, didn't he? And then that grew and all that kind of stuff. And I think that kind of happened with me. It wasn't until I started doing the fringe shows and kind of carving out a certain atmosphere.

[Marc Maron]

But when does it start to like, you know, when I have to assume in watching, you know, baby reindeer and having not seen the show that it's based on, but knowing that you did a bunch of other shows and you kind of know the zone you operate in, so, you know, do you track like, when did shit start to go south? When did shit start to go wrong for you, you know, as a kid? Because you draw on it an awful lot, I imagine.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But was there a point where you started to lose control?

[Richard Gad]

Like lose control of your life? Oh, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm not even sure where. Where to sort of begin. I think when I left home and what, 18, 19. Yeah. To go university. Okay. I do remember thinking that there was kind of something missing inside of me. Yeah, I. I remember sort of once I was out in the real world and I. I was out of like a small town where I had my friends and I had my family.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

I just remember getting to university and thinking, I don't know who I am. Having that kind of hole in the soul thing.

[Marc Maron]

No, I have it. And it's like. It's a real. It's a real problem in terms of like, if you kind of move through life with a sort of feeling that you don't have a complete sense of self.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and I. And I think that's why in terms of baby reindeer, when I watched it, that I could understand it is it kind of puts you. You have a kind of gaping hole.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

That is easy to be taken advantage of because you don't have the sense of self to fight.

[Richard Gad]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And so you get into situations out of the desire to want to be part of something and then it becomes a disaster.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. It leads to a lack of self and a lack of almost ability to be boundaried with people. And I think. And I think people who are of a bad nature can sense that in someone. When someone has a kind of a low self esteem that could be taken advantage of.

[Marc Maron]

You're like food to them.

[Richard Gad]

Exactly, exactly. And that's kind of how it all kind of.

[Marc Maron]

But do you track it to something? I mean, do you track it to your childhood. I know in Baby Reindeer there's sort of a kind of a full circle moment with, you know, your father and what's suggested there about his past. But, I mean, in growing up, I mean, what kind of family. What'd your dad do?

[Richard Gad]

My dad was a scientist. Yeah. So completely different world to.

[Marc Maron]

So that was a fictionalization in terms of what was in Baby Reindeer.

[Richard Gad]

I don't think his job was specified. In fact, I think in some of the scripts it was. But he was very much of the. I don't think you'll mind me saying this, the crazy scientist ilk.

[Marc Maron]

But a good guy.

[Richard Gad]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And family was kind of loving that. There was just. Yeah, it. It's. You know, there was a lot. I mean, childhoods are always kind of quite complicated.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

Quite hard to juggle.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. School could be tough in places. You know, I definitely grew up in a neighborhood where, you know, masculinity was certainly at the forefront of it with some of the kids around and stuff like that. And, you know, certain the school was kind of. It's not the roughest school in the world. It was a state comprehensive, like a free school, like government school kind of thing, you know. And then in my early years, I was kind of picked on quite badly there.

[Marc Maron]

For what reason? Were you. Were you nerdy or were your interests weird?

[Richard Gad]

It's so funny talking about this because it's almost like the first time I've even unlocked it in so many years. But I remember when I was a kid in my. I played for this tennis club, the Wormit Tennis Club. Yeah. And I remember I had a birthmark on my head which has actually faded. And it was the shape of Africa, if you. You can believe this. This the continent. And they would call me Tea Stain. And. Yeah, I can't believe I'm talking about this because I. And then they would like. Because they were like, oh, I've dropped a tea bag on my head. I mean. Right. And then they would. You know, it was. It got to a point where they were like singing songs about me on the bus and stuff like that. And, you know, they would sing, like, mean songs and I'd sit at the front and I. I always remember it got quite bad at one stage that I was coming back on the school bus. And I remember I would just be the whole way back on the bus thinking, I hope they don't sing about me today. I hope they don't sing about me today. And I remember I Would start to hear singing, but then realize they weren't singing. So my anxiety was so great that I had started to hear the singing. And I remember that's when I realized that things that actually got quite bad with the kind of bullying of it all. I remember this one stage. I remember one of the guys in particular. It's kind of fun. It's funny now. Cause I passed him when I went back home. He's about up to my shoulder now. It's quite funny. Yeah. You know, when you look back at these kinds of characters in your life.

[Marc Maron]

And they were so over overbearing and. And had such an impact, and then you get older, you're like, it was you.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, absolutely. I remember this guy gave me a hard time day in, day out. And I remember going home, sitting with my sister, coming up with something I could say to him on the bus the next day. And I decided to say, you know, at least when I go on holiday, I don't have to drop my mum off at the kennels. Which is obviously very, you know, not the right thing to say.

[Marc Maron]

Standard, but kind of. Kind of kid put down.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, Kid van or whatever. And he went right to the front of the bus. He must be about six years between us and beat the hell out of me, you know, and, you know. And that was.

[Marc Maron]

He was six years older than you?

[Richard Gad]

He was about six years older than me, I think. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And he's still on the same bus.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. But it's, you know, it's funny. I. You know, it's funny talking about this kind of stuff, you know, because I. You question whether I've kind of. But. But it causes you to be kind of tough in your. In your neighborhood, to stick up for yourself, to not take much shit from people. And I think that. That it hardens you. Well, it just. You have to be part of.

[Marc Maron]

But physically, no. You're not, like, you're not a scrapper.

[Richard Gad]

No, no. I mean, I mean, I've been in.

[Marc Maron]

Fights, but in the sense of like, you know, being able to take, you know, a certain amount of verbal abuse or bullying because you're used to it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, that's a. That's why that's a standard, you know, comedic profile.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, you sort of have to have some kind of tough skin to do it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, Harry Shearer, I think, you know, to paraphrase him, he told me that the reason why people get into comedy is so they can try to control why people laugh at them.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. I think, I think that that is a very, you know, good, good way of looking at it, I think. Yeah. I mean, to come back to the kind, wider point of why I. I kind of sought that, because I think something will have to go. There's something lacking to have to go onto stage and be like, I want to make you laugh. I want your adoration, I want your respect kind of thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think so. But I think sometimes it's just, I, I. And maybe we're similar, because I don't. I don't find it to be similar with a lot of people. But. But, you know, if you get to. If your sense of self or your insecurity or your anxiety is so much. I mean, the one thing about standup is you can find yourself up there or some version of you, if you want to fight it out, some sort of space you can hold that's your own.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think there was just something that I took. I remember when I went to school at school. I remember I was cast in the play. I was cast as Macbeth in the school play. And I remember, like, it was a school production. I still stand by that. I think it was quite good. But in fact, it was. I just got the bug, and I kind of knew my place in the world. And I got some sort of adrenaline and affirmation from it that made me think, well, this is making me happy.

[Marc Maron]

And you had not done any acting before?

[Richard Gad]

I'd done, like, drama at school. I'd been in classes, but that was the first time I'd actually.

[Marc Maron]

And this was in what, the equivalent of high school?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, it was like, I stay. It was secondary school. It would have been when I was about maybe 16 or something.

[Marc Maron]

So you were interested in acting to begin with?

[Richard Gad]

I did drama classes at school, but that was when I realized my mom.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, acting?

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. My mom basically was like, you should audition for this. And I went, I had to know. And she was like, no, you should. And then I auditioned. Didn't understand Shakespeare. It was, is this a dagger which you see before me Speech. I didn't even know it was an invisible dagger. I couldn't figure out the language. It was a complete disaster. Then I come in the next day, and my head. I'm at the top of the sheet saying, richard Guy, Macbeth. So I don't know how that happened. But then.

[Marc Maron]

Do you think they were trying to make a prank on you?

[Richard Gad]

I'm not sure. I think they Genuinely just must have seen someone, something, some energy or something in me. But it was like, still to this day, one of the kind of most enjoyable, enlightening experiences of my life. And I said to myself, well, I want to give this a shot properly. My parents said, get a bit of education behind you. I went off to uni first.

[Marc Maron]

So you did the whole Macbeth without really having a sense of Shakespeare? You just memorized it. And did you have a good director?

[Richard Gad]

Oh, yeah, she was amazing. Patricia Ressler. I kind of owe her everything. Yeah. She was a great teacher at school. Yeah. But I sort of learned about Shakespeare when I did it. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So did it speak to you, the torment of that?

[Richard Gad]

Yes, it did. I. Some part of me still wants to do Macbeth to go back to that.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think you should do it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Why wouldn't you do it?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to do Shakespeare. And I became very indulgent. Like, I indulged in Shakespeare quite a lot. Yeah. From that point on, you know, I started to really. And then when I went off to uni, I would do essays and do all that stuff and study Shakespeare. So I really got really into it. I kind of have pulled back a bit from it now, but it really was a kind of watershed moment for what I wanted to do with my life, for sure.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But you chose comedy. I mean, Macbeth is not really a comedy.

[Richard Gad]

No, no, comedy came at uni. It was funny because I remember kind of sleepovers, and I never. I loved sitcom, but I didn't really love stand up too much. I actually love stand up a lot more now than I did back then when I started in a.

[Marc Maron]

So you liked it. Well, you liked watching sitcoms, and did you. Did you have a sense of, like. Well, these are written and I could write it.

[Richard Gad]

I think that was always. I think when I watched, like, the UK Office, the Ricky Gervais Merchant one. I remember watching that, and I just became obsessed with it. I thought was the funniest thing. I thought was the most moving thing. I still do to this day. Think it's one of the greatest things that's ever been made.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And I. I researched into it, saw these two guys. Oh, they wrote it and they were in it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And they directed it and they did all this stuff.

[Marc Maron]

But also, it's. It's also tonally up your alley. I mean, in the cringe factor.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so. And so I said, oh, this. This is what I would love to do. I'd love to have my own version of the UK office.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Richard Gad]

And that was always my goal, which really kind of got all the way to baby reindeer, in a way. It's just my life took these dramatic turns that meant I wasn't really doing workplace comedy. By time by, I was, like, thinking about baby reindeer, if that makes sense, because my life had changed so much. But.

[Marc Maron]

Well, when you got to university, what. What were you studying?

[Richard Gad]

I was studying English literature and theater studies.

[Marc Maron]

And did that. Was. Did that satisfy your parents?

[Richard Gad]

You know, looking back, I. I think they probably thought I was going to go and I would get an education. I get maybe a job, and I grow out of my kind of hobbies.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Richard Gad]

But. But the second uni finished, I was back on it. I want to do this, I want to do that.

[Marc Maron]

But it's also like. Though. But English and theater studies, it's not like, well, that'll get you a job.

[Richard Gad]

No, no, exactly. It was very much in the vein of. Of what I wanted to do, but I. It was at uni, I spent so much time in the drama society doing plays, writing plays, and then. And then I discovered comedy and did that. So most of my uni time was spent on the circuit.

[Marc Maron]

But you did some. You wrote some plays? Yeah, I wrote some plays with many people in them.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. And I put them on, and I'd be in plays that other people wrote or are they put on, you know, something like Dr. Faustus or something, and I would. I would be audition for it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

So was this. Was there two. Was it the main drama school, or was there, like, two. Were there the serious actors and then they had a drama for English majors?

[Richard Gad]

Oh, it was just called Student Theater at Glasgow. It was just like a bunch of students kind of putting together.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So it wasn't, like, part of the program?

[Richard Gad]

No, no, it wasn't part of the program. In fact, the theater studies and English degree was very academic. Yeah. In fact, the theater studies was the hardest part of it. It was all, like, space and place. I remember it was really theoretical. There was no practical history at all. I think I thought, oh, cool, I'm gonna go and just do some drama for a bit. But it was very theoretical, very challenging.

[Marc Maron]

Do you find that it. Did it. It stuck?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I think so. I think when I got to uni, I. I think I learned I really got a sense of work ethic and what you get out of life if you work hard at university. Because when I went, I realized that I was very. I actually wasn't very Academically up to scratch.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

You do four years in, in Scotland and in the first year you need a D3 to scape, to scrape through, which is like the equivalent of a third. Do you have the same grading system out here?

[Marc Maron]

No, not really.

[Richard Gad]

Is this all going to be alien? Yeah, but think about it.

[Marc Maron]

But. So. Well, you know, you need a certain grade point average.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, to be, to get into a better school.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I, you know, if you were kind of a mediocre student or a bad one, your choices of higher education become limited.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yes. So, so, exactly. So in. So you needed a D3 to get through the first year, which was a. Which is a very low average.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And I scraped through the first year.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And then I needed a B in the second year, which was such a leap up.

[Marc Maron]

This was in university.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. To get through the next year and almost and somehow scrape through it. And I remember thinking, I'm not going to get an honours degree unless I figure out how to properly write, structure, essays, all these kinds of things, honors.

[Marc Maron]

What is that? Is that the same as here? That, you know.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, like a proper, like full on sort of undergraduate degree. And so I remember one uni, everyone went back home to work and I, instead I went to the library at uni and worked through the summer, generally going back to basics. Like, how do you properly structure an essay? And how do you properly.

[Marc Maron]

After your first year.

[Richard Gad]

First two years, if you can believe that. I went into my owner's year thinking, I've got to figure this out because I keep, I just.

[Marc Maron]

This writing papers is the worst.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

I used to write like, like I'd write five pages of opening paragraphs, like, you know, I could never make a fucking point.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I, and I just couldn't figure out how to structure it. The idea of trying to write one now is a nightmarish.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, exactly, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

And you figured it out.

[Richard Gad]

Well, I just, I took it and I, I busted my ass and I went to uni. So along with all the coursework I was doing, I was reading books on how to kind of write properly in a way, and I ended up getting a first thing and I'm getting the highest grade you can get. And I went from being someone who almost failed first year with a D average, which is really hard to do. It's hard to fail to get in a first. And I never ever missed a single lecture tutorial the entire time I was at university.

[Marc Maron]

So you applied yourself, as they say in the Business.

[Richard Gad]

And I realized that you get a lot out of it if you apply yourself.

[Marc Maron]

So alongside of this, you know, this revelation and discipline.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah. Which is what it was. Which is genuinely what it was. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're, you're, you're off getting, you know, battle scarred in the comedy world.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, I was doing all that at the same time, but like, what are these?

[Marc Maron]

So, like, you know, what's the arc? I mean, like from now, from what you're telling me, you know, you go to uni, you fuck up and you realize, like, you know, I can't get anywhere if I'm gonna do this. And then you, you know, you lock in and you nail it. But something must be going on in the personal life that is not particularly good.

[Richard Gad]

What, like to spur me on like this?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, well, to get to where. Cause you said, you know, from when you were a kid to, you know, to baby reindeer, that you. There was a lot of changes that happened.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean there was always, like when I went to university, there was always just this feeling that this cosmic sort of sense of, I don't know, kind of dread, Dread lacking fear. All these things that has driven me to the point of distraction through work and through various other things and has driven me on. And work has been the main source to kind of patch over that and to explore that and to go through that.

[Marc Maron]

So it provided you a distraction from the immediacy of it consuming you.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And so the natural leap once you got your skill set was to write about it.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And I'm, you know, and it's quite self flagellating in a way. It's quite self punishing kind of journey of sort of autobiographical work.

[Marc Maron]

Well, but that becomes your thing. So it's self flagellating, but like, you know, like if you, if you write jokes for joke's sake or you're just making comedy for comedy's sake, you know, that's, that's almost a different skill set. I mean, it's a good one to have. But if you set out to explore yourself, you're always going to be like that self involved person. But it sounds like. And I can relate to it. You know, what else is there? I'm not that interested in the other stuff. You know, ultimately I can do those kind of jokes. But the real revelation.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Comes from exploring your own psyche. Right?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, exactly. I, I remember when I, you know, it's obviously well spoken about now, like going, when I first got into industry and Kind of take advantage of and sexually abused and drug abused and all this stuff. And I. The revelation kind of came because I was doing all these. Like, that part of Baby Ranger is very real. That. That kind of. I was doing this silly comedy, this kind of very out there comedy. Props, wigs, glasses, anti humor, all this kind of stuff. And then my life was existing in this impossible juxtaposition between doing kind of frivolous laughs and kind of in your face humor and sound effects and all this stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Was it working, though?

[Richard Gad]

It was kind of working. I mean. I mean, I think one of the things Baby Reindeer does is. Well, there was times when those gigs went really, really well. And I'd done shows in Edinburgh that had gone really, really well, which. Which were kind of big, frolicky, laughy sort of those kinds of shows, you know, and.

[Marc Maron]

But taking the piss out of comedy in general.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. And being subversive and all that kind of stuff. But I realized that I was kind of. I just almost. I remember I'd gone through all this stuff. I was trying to come to terms with it, and I was just thinking, I just can't don the wig and glasses this time around. You know, the sexual.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so that happened like, in a similar way to Baby Reindeer?

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah. And I just couldn't do it anymore. And so I. Instead, in the show, in Baby Reindeer, it's like an impulsive decision to break down and start talking about it. But in real life, it was a show called Monkey See, Monkey do. And I planned. I meticulously planned an Edinburgh show where I was gonna speak about sexual abuse and being sexually abused and the assault it had on my senses, on my sense of self, sense of masculinity.

[Marc Maron]

And how many shows have you done previous to that?

[Richard Gad]

I've done about three shows previously to that.

[Marc Maron]

And they were all frivolous, as you say.

[Richard Gad]

Well, they were high concept kind of shows. There's one called, like, Waiting for Godo, where I was only in five minutes of my own show and the whole show was done by my technician. I. You would hear me phoning the venue, for example, and I'd say, you've got to fill in for me. And the technician did 55 minutes of the show and then I arrived five minutes.

[Marc Maron]

And that was successful?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, that was a really successful one. They were all. They all got their audiences.

[Marc Maron]

What were the other ones?

[Richard Gad]

There was one called Cheese and Crack Whores. Still the best title show I've ever had.

[Marc Maron]

What was that about?

[Richard Gad]

If I remember correctly, it was about a breakup and it was about me trying to do a comedy show whilst my. Whilst having these awful flashbacks to how my awful breakup. So I would be doing a comedy show, but I'd be having a breakdown and then you'd hear the voices in my head and you hear the arguments that I had and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Richard Gad]

So that was the first one. The second one was called Breaking Gad, which is a regretfully titled show because it was kind of cashing in on a fad at the time. Yeah, it wasn't a fad. Breaking Bad's an amazing, great piece of work. Like one of the best of all times. Not a fad. What am I talking about? But it was cashing in on the kind of. The popularity. Popularity. And so people. I got a lot of Breaking Bad fans expecting Walter White jokes and then they got me sort of dressed as a mattress, because I was dressed as a mattress, because the whole idea was the show had been sponsored by a mattress company, so I had to wear a big mattress throughout the whole show. And then the show was kind of penetrated by constant sponsorship adverts whilst I was trying to do a show about my piecing back my memory whilst after being knocked out. So very high concept. Crazy, crazy show.

[Marc Maron]

And so what show brought you to the attention of the Predator?

[Richard Gad]

Do you mean the show that came to terms with.

[Marc Maron]

Well, no, not to came to terms with it, like. Because in the. In baby reindeer, he sees you.

[Richard Gad]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Trying to do something.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I'm not sure I can draw, you know, the actual. I'm not sure I can say the whens and the where's and all that kind of stuff. I think that I can get into that kind of detail. But he did.

[Marc Maron]

But he did see you.

[Richard Gad]

It was just a figure I met when I go in the industry and they sort of. Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty horrible, horrible time, you know, it's. It's.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know. I mean, I had like. I know what that's like. When I was in college, I had an experience with a professor who was of that ilk. And again, it comes down to, you know, them seeing that part of you that is vulnerable and what they could take advantage of because you want to be like them or you want to do what they do or you look up to them, you know?

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And. And I think. I think one of the tactics, filling somebody with confidence is sometimes the best way to get them to lower their senses. And if they. Lacking of self confidence, it's easy to.

[Marc Maron]

Take advantage of them.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. And It's. It was a really. And then to pull myself out of that situation and piece myself back together and think about my future, my ambitions, and try and get my life back on track felt borderline impossible. I mean, I was. I was at. Completely.

[Marc Maron]

So you were personally devastated.

[Richard Gad]

It was unbelievable. And.

[Marc Maron]

And, like, how much coming out of the situation like that, though, were you wrestling with. In terms of blaming yourself?

[Richard Gad]

You. You wouldn't believe. You wouldn't believe. I mean. Well, you. Yeah. Well, you would believe. Yeah. No, that's true. I mean, it was. It was actually kind of. I. I mean, it was. It was. It was. I mean, it was devastating. I mean, I don't. A lot of it. I think you go through a process, first of denial or a process of minimizing and a process of just desperately not thinking about it. That you go through these stages of just. Just. I can't. I tell you what. Today I'm just not gonna think about, oh, it's there. Oh, no, it's not. I'm gonna get it. But eventually, like you. You cannot help but let it in. And once you let it in, it's devastating. It affects your brain, it affects your mood, it affects your body.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Because what happens is that when it's repeated and the relationship is maintained, you know, you have to reframe it.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That you are a victim.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

And if you're. If you lack confidence, you know, it's very easy to blame yourself.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So then you left with no recourse but to destroy yourself.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And I. It just. It was just like. I just couldn't believe that it happened and with someone I trusted and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And I. And also, like, a lot of it was, how could I be so stupid? Was part of it as well.

[Marc Maron]

But were you using a lot of drugs and alcohol?

[Richard Gad]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

With. With. By yourself, too?

[Richard Gad]

No. No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so. So it was a. It was just a terrible situation. It's like waking up in a nightmare and then coming to terms with it and being traumatized. Your brain chemistry changes. So all of a sudden, like, you're almost just struggling to even make it to the bus stop in time because of this kind of slushy sort of depression that just kind of like, kills your system. And then it. You know, I remember my mom and a friend of mine called James. You know, I. I ended up opening up to them eventually, but then it starts to affect your friendships because they become kind of compulsive. You start to compulsively Lean on people as well, because what you're dealing with is.

[Marc Maron]

So were you trusting them and you don't know if you can.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, well. Well, I mean, these. These people were great. It's just. It becomes. They become. They become confidants in your life and then you become desperately seek their reassurance wherever you feel wobbly. And it just has such a destructive impact on your life, on your friendships, on your work, on everything. And it got to the point where I thought, I have to come to terms with this and come clean with this, because the secret was too much to bear.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And so I did the 2016 Adam Rashell monkey See, Monkey Do. And that's. That was when I started to come to terms with it.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, so you set out, you sat down and you composed yourself enough. How long did it take you to write it? Were you writing it in bits and pieces?

[Richard Gad]

And I wrote it about a year. I finished waiting for Gadot and then I think I gave it maybe about. I think I wrote in about eight months. And I. I remember going up. I remember just working really, really hard on it, previewing it a lot.

[Marc Maron]

But the monkey see monkey.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. And I remember at that time, though, it was pre. Pre me too. So not many people spoke about this. And I think especially in the male sphere, it wasn't really spoken about. So at the time it felt very dangerous almost to do. Almost, in a way.

[Marc Maron]

Dangerous because you might be obliterated by the admission.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, exactly. I thought there was the fear of judgment, the fear of friends and people, family, not being able to look at me in the same way. And then the fear of going up, doing a comedy show in Edinburgh about sexual abuse.

[Marc Maron]

Were you able to balance the comedy?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I think I did get it quite right. I mean, it's still probably my. One of my most successful shows today. I mean, it won the Edinburgh Comedy Award that year, so. Won the Perrier that year. But I remember going up and. And thinking it was going to be the ruin of me. And I don't know what I was thinking. I had Flammas at the time who I think thought it was a bad idea and were making jokes about it being a bad idea.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And I went up expecting this really dark show with really dark material and jokes and everything to really almost be the death of me. I remember one person saying, what, do you want to get out this month? And I said, I want to make it out alive. And that was my attitude going up there. It was almost like, I don't know, what I'm doing, but it turned into the most, like, uplifting, euphoric healing month of my life, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Well, so much was at stake, psychologically.

[Richard Gad]

And emotionally for you, and I'd never felt acceptance like it. You know, my football team came down, and I was really worried about them, like my soccer team or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And they came down, and they were people I really worried about. And I remember the captain text me that night, and he said, I don't know whether this text will mean anything to you, but it kind of made me proud to be your friend. And I just remember being like, oh, my God, I was so worried, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think it's interesting because. To speak about it specifically, because I have a bit that I'm doing now that is pretty good. It's personal, and it has to do with the possibility of. Of. Of sexual abuse.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is that what is unsaid, is that there is nobody not affected by this?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yes.

[Marc Maron]

And. And nobody can talk about it?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And there's just very few people that get out alive without having some sort of traumatic experience around that kind of subject matter.

[Richard Gad]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

So, like. So I imagine because of the way you crafted it, you know, it was relatable enough to where people, you know, can reflect on their own unsaid things. Right.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that was the thing that I really blew my mind about it, because I think at that time, preemie, too, not many people spoke about it. Not many people spoke about publicly speaking men, especially not men. But then men were coming up in their droves being like, by the way this thing happened and this thing happened. And I've never. Yeah. I've never thought about it like, this way before, but you helped me think about it this way.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, that's something. That's amazing.

[Richard Gad]

And it almost made me think, oh, my God, this is like there's a trap door here. The whole society's been.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Richard Gad]

Abused in a way. And that's sometimes how it feels, you know, especially when you become a sort of spokesperson from this. You feel like almost everyone in the world comes up to you and says an experience that they've had because it's so his.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think the key is what you just said, which is that, you know, I think most people, men certainly are taught to suck it up, you know, just to, you know, to, you know, just deal with it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, you keep it to yourself and, you know, put it compartmentalize it. And live your life. But so many of the lives that people live and their emotional capabilities are so damaged from that, but they don't source it.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I imagine on some level by. By being open about it, that people were able to make these connections of like, oh, my God, I've been doing this my whole life. And the reason I have this issue is because of this.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly. And I think, you know, I think there's a thing. I work for this charity back. Oh, I'm not dropping that into Bill Sanctimonious or whatever. But. But they. They have a. Their slogan is break the silence. Yeah, we are supposed to break the silence. And I'm. That is true. It's. The only way I think you can get through it is by speaking and not being ashamed of it, because I think it builds so much shame up inside you that it can create some real internal damage and psychological damage that. The only way I know is to speak out about it. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you could. What happens is, I think is you could get, like, almost addicted to shame.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yes. Oh, and I was completely addicted. I couldn't look at people in the eye in checkouts. You know, I remember I'd be paying for food and I'd be like, almost having a panic attack because I think that they could see it on me, like, smell it on me. I would almost spit. I remember feeling like I could. The kind of feeling was so awful that it was like in my spit, it was in my blood, it was running through me, this horrible feeling of sort of defilement and abuse.

[Marc Maron]

So after you do the show, how does that change your life?

[Richard Gad]

Well, I mean, I just couldn't believe the response to it. So I won the Perrier Awards. I suddenly went from being a kind of part time jobbing barman comedian to full time. So made me full time. I toured the show around Europe, around Britain, around Australia, kind of took around the world. And I think people started to just take notice of me as an artist almost, in a way. And I think the more you do a show like that, the more you get used to talking about it, the more people come up, the more you stop becoming ashamed of it. Art has this amazing ability of dwarfing the magnitude of themes in a way and getting on top of them. And I think by the end of the. I did it for a year, I remember saying, I'm just gonna do the show for a year. And about a year to the day it finished.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And the amount of personal growth I went on that year was unbelievable, really.

[Marc Maron]

And so when does the next show happen?

[Richard Gad]

It was about two years later, I think. I did a few acting jobs and stuff like that.

[Marc Maron]

And you were writing too?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I was trying to get my foot in the door of television. I came close so many times. I had so many different projects and I felt like I came close so many times. In fact, Monkey See, Monkey Do Open almost became a TV show.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Richard Gad]

But it was kind of last minute. There was a change in commissioners and maybe in a way, like, it was too high concept. I look back and then question whether it would have worked actually.

[Marc Maron]

High concept.

[Richard Gad]

How it was about me being haunted by a giant monkey.

[Marc Maron]

That's how you framed it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. And the monkey was the metaphor for everything I'd been through. But. But it was like a sitcom where a man cannot escape a sort of giant monkey almost, in a way.

[Marc Maron]

And that would seem like it would demean it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. It just felt like maybe quite high concept, but anything can kind of work, I think, when done. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it's interesting that whatever time availed you in the next horrendous story that defined that show gave you the wherewithal to not mask it at all.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and then when it came to baby reindeer, I. I just. Yeah, it was.

[Marc Maron]

Well, when did that experience happen to you with. With the Martha character?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I mean, that was. That went on for. You know, I was working in a bar. Went on for a large number of years.

[Marc Maron]

So. At the same time as the other stuff.

[Richard Gad]

At the same time as the other stuff. And. And I sometimes think that when. I mean, what's. What's the. What's the.

[Marc Maron]

So that. So it's not unlike the series they were having simultaneously.

[Richard Gad]

It was just an awful time. And I think sometimes that happens when you're going through such a devastation, you know, that, oh, my God, there's a line in baby. And that's what abuse does to you. It makes you a stick in plaster full of life's weirdos, you know, And I think sometimes when you're going through a really difficult time, you. You do become a sort of magnet for other kind of dangers in your life because you're so exposed almost vulnerably and emotionally, you can't.

[Marc Maron]

You can't have any boundaries.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

So, yeah, of course, you're just, you know, you're. That's exactly true. And so which did the predatory. The sexual abuse happen before? You know. Yes, Right. So that's Sort of the door was opened.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. I think I was just. I think I was just looking for comfort wherever I could find it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Richard Gad]

Because that's what it does to you. You know, you look for anything to distract yourself from the kind of. Of the kind of trauma of what happened. And so I indulged in work and. Yeah. And now I'm much more boundaried.

[Marc Maron]

And did you seek professional help?

[Richard Gad]

Oh, I've completed therapy. I've always done them all.

[Marc Maron]

You had a lot to work with.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I paid their kids through college.

[Marc Maron]

You know, what was the most helpful?

[Richard Gad]

It's interesting. I sometimes think, like, I've got a brain where usually, like, something starts off quite helpful, but then even if my brain manages to convince myself it's. It's then not being as helpful as it is, and it starts to become a kind of something that I battle with.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Richard Gad]

But I think I've tried. Yeah. I mean, I think just standard talk therapy does really help with somebody who.

[Marc Maron]

Can contextualize what you. What your experience was.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, absolutely. And I just think a place. The thing. I think for me, what works about therapy sometimes is a place you can go where you can just tell all your fears, you know, without judgment. It's. Is a very valuable thing, I think, for sure. And I think.

[Marc Maron]

And all your experiences.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, exactly. And I think it saves you sort of bleeding them into the world and telling everyone you meet and all, because that. That can be quite compulsive habit to deal with things.

[Marc Maron]

You know, you do it on stage.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, you do it on stage. And so it allows you to compartmentalize your life a little bit better. But, yeah, it was just a real.

[Marc Maron]

And the thing that even. And so when you processed everything that became monkey see, monkey do, the stalker situation was ongoing.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it just becomes part of your life that you have no control over.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And then I remember when that situation resolved itself, I felt again just awful. Like I was picking up my life again. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

How did it resolve itself?

[Richard Gad]

I. Yeah, it just kind of stopped. I. It's obviously part of an ongoing thing that unfortunately, I'd love to go into, but. But when it did sort of resolve.

[Marc Maron]

Itself, you had the same feelings.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I had this sort of. This feeling of just like. Oh, that is really kind of traumatized me. And so that's when I decided to do Baby Rain. Do.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it breaks your brain.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

So you just. You got through one, you know, an easier one in some ways. To. To get yourself out of.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Into something that you had no control over.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it was very daunting to. To sort of process and get yourself out of. But once you did, you know, like, I. It had to be a whole other level of. Of the same type of feelings.

[Richard Gad]

Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And. And yeah, and I. And I got a lot from doing Monkey See Monkey Do. I got a lot of sort of self examination and. And so I did it with that and then that's what brought us to where we are now, to Baby Reindeer. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that was a show.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, it started off as a show at the Edinburgh Fringe, 2019. It was a one man show.

[Marc Maron]

That was two years after Monkey See Monkey Do.

[Richard Gad]

Three years actually. It debuted. Yeah. Two years after I finished.

[Marc Maron]

And in the interim, like, are you workshopping these things or.

[Richard Gad]

I. With that show, I. Yeah, I would workshop it every now and again, but always with my shows. I've kind of been booked to date and thinking that's miles ahead. Then it gets to about six months before and I'm like, I better get going on this. And I. Yeah, and I. It was a bit of a balls to the wall kind of job. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So. Because like, I never understood that in the, you know, in the sense of Edinburgh where, you know, you have comedians who are doing, you know, theater pieces, you know, some looser than others.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But like, you know, what is the process of working those pieces out?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I had a great director, John Britton, and a great producer, Francesca Moody, on that show and I had written a script which basically was quite close that.

[Marc Maron]

For Baby Ramdom.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. Which is quite close to what it ended up being. And I remember sharing it with him and Francesca and they gave me a lot of confidence in it. I remember they really. They took to it and I respected them both so much. So that gave me the belief that I could step out of comedy into theater and give it a shot. Because Baby Reindeer was a theater piece rather than a comedy piece.

[Marc Maron]

But so the TV show is different from. Because that combines both shows.

[Richard Gad]

It does combine both. So, yeah, that is quite a big departure from the live show. There's certain.

[Marc Maron]

And what was the structure of the theatrical production of Baby Reindeer?

[Richard Gad]

It was a one man monologue. It involved a lot of projector, all voicemails, emails beaming around the stage, a revolve. And I'd stand on stage and basically tell the story, interacting with a stool. And the stool took up the place of Martha and I'd move the stool around and I'd talk to the stool, and it was me recounting the story kind of. And this happened, and then this happened, and I had lots of twists and turns and a really good sound score. And. Yeah, very proud of that show. I'm proud of everything we did on it. And it always seems, though, that.

[Marc Maron]

That from the beginning, no matter what you were doing was something, you know, beyond comedy in the sense of theater.

[Richard Gad]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

That, like, unlike a lot of comics that go to Edinburgh, that try to wrangle an hour of material into some themed work.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That you were always aware that you were making theater pieces.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I think so. I think. I think it was so funny because a lot of times when I did shows, there would be. And I went in the comedy section. They'd be like, he needs to get to a theater. This isn't comedy. And then I go to a theater, and the theater would be like, he needs to get to a comedy section.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Richard Gad]

Theater. And I existed in this middle ground, and I remember for certain awards that I'd be up for that month, like Monkey See, Monkey do, for example, the theater crowd thought it was too comedic to be considered for theater awards, and the comedy crowd argued that it was too theatrical to be considered for comedy awards. But I'm quite proud of that. In a weird way, you're kind of escaping definition.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Richard Gad]

And I think that. That. That is one of the parts of those shows I'm most proud of, I think.

[Marc Maron]

And what is your experience with other comics? Do you have. Are you part of the community, or do you feel, once again, outside of it.

[Richard Gad]

Oh, I've got great comedy friends. I think I've made some of the best friends I've ever had from comedy in so many ways, and. But I don't really do comedy very much anymore. I think when the theater piece happened, it set me off on the path to the Writing the Netflix show and then been doing some serious acting jobs and kind of. It's slightly. The comedy slightly is quite in the background now.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but comedy in the sense of doing comedy, but not in the sense of writing theater.

[Richard Gad]

I think I'd love to write theatre again and do live. I'm definitely gonna do live stuff again.

[Marc Maron]

Or just live stuff in general, but.

[Richard Gad]

I think comedy circuit stuff or doing Edinburgh shows or doing the kind of comedy stuff. I think that's probably a thing of the past. I think just right now, I'm just quite happy about following the trajectory in terms of where it's going.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. I mean, it was a You know, how did you get the support to do the TV show?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, it was kind of quite. I mean, the theater piece exploded. Like, it really was like this word of mouth hit. Yeah, it was really big in Edinburgh.

[Marc Maron]

At Edinburgh.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. Yeah. And then it went off to the Bush Theatre in London and it did again. It was this big, kind of exclusive hit. And I just found myself suddenly, usually back in. I would. I would almost beg commissioners to take a chance on my show. I'd write these massive treatments and scripts and be like, please, I do lots of work on spec. But with this, it was like the play that everyone just wanted it. They want to do this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

And they all started competing with each other. All these different streamers and there's a.

[Marc Maron]

Bidding war kind of.

[Richard Gad]

It was. Yeah, about three of them. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say who actually, but. But there was about three of them and they all started to bid with each other. And I remember I would go in to have these meetings and it was kind of funny because I'd usually go into these meetings with commissioners, selling the project, selling myself.

[Marc Maron]

Commissioners is like the word for development people.

[Richard Gad]

Well, just the people who'd say, yeah, we want to make this. We'll give you the money kind of thing at like Netflix or whatever. But I realized the play was so hot that all of a sudden I felt like I was going into these commissioner meetings and they were kind of pitching as to why I should do it there. And I suddenly realized that I had this kind of IP in my hand that was quite attractive to these commissioners. And, you know, and Netflix really, really were kind of brilliant in terms of just being like, look, we believe in this, we believe in you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

Go out, find a production company. We'll back you, whoever you want to go with.

[Marc Maron]

Did you have a concept for the show at that time?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I did not. Not too far from where it. Where it. Where it was. I thought I have to just keep the elements of what made the live show successful, which was kind of a propulsive narrative, like a fast moving narrative. Emails on screen. Yeah. A kind of interesting quirky score and a brutally honest kind of first person narrative.

[Marc Maron]

But from the beginning, had you considered folding the Monkey See, Monkey do story in?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. Cause it was a bit. It was touched upon in the play in Baby Reindeer, the theater show. So it was touched upon a little bit, that stuff.

[Marc Maron]

So why not just tell the whole story?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. So we talked about a flashback episode quite early on. Everyone was quite on board with it. And weirdly that flashback episode seems to be the one that.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, hold on.

[Richard Gad]

No worries. Is that. Is that. Is everything all right? Is that an evacuation?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but I don't know where.

[Richard Gad]

Isn't it? Oh, God, it's so bad. Awful. Everything that's going on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, let's see. No, we're okay. We're okay. I. I don't think it's. It's not. I think it's for another one. Yeah, it's not. It's not. It's not here. It's crazy.

[Richard Gad]

Dude, it's crazy. I think I've got one on my phone as well, but.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. What does your say? Evacuation order?

[Richard Gad]

Not. Not an order. No, I'll put that. I'll put that down.

[Marc Maron]

No, we're okay. We're okay. We're okay.

[Richard Gad]

Is yours still up on your phone?

[Marc Maron]

This is for a fire way over by the. By the beach, by the other fire.

[Richard Gad]

God, it's. It's. It's a really. I have to say, it's, like, surreal being here and absolutely devastating for the people. You know, when you see all the footage and everything.

[Marc Maron]

It'S a different kind of trauma.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you. You know, we're always afraid of this, but we've never seen anything like this.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And during, you know, the first Trump administration, during COVID there was, like, a firestorm here, and it was just apocalyptic. And, you know, you spend a lot of time just wondering, you know, is it near here? How far is it? But, like, it's never been like, this kind of all around the city, you know. But it's weird. Some of these are being downgraded, but some are, you know, still going. It's just. It's natural disaster time.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. It's. It's so sad. I'm staying in a hotel down on Sunset at the moment and seeing people arrive, like, evacuees arriving. It's.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I was down there last night. I went down to Hollywood from here just because I just wanted to get ahead of it, and then that fire broke out right there. Where on Sunset were you?

[Richard Gad]

I was on one hotel.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. So that fire across the street, we.

[Richard Gad]

Were a block away from the evacuation zone.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I was there, too. I was looking at it from my window.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. Yeah. I could see. Unbelievable.

[Marc Maron]

And I thought it was safe. Like, I went to Hollywood to, you know, anyway, so. So Netflix got on board. And you wrote the scripts? All of them?

[Richard Gad]

I wrote all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just. I. I just really. I knew it was my chance in a way, so I had to kind of knuckle down. And Covid happened. So I had time, more time than. Than most. And I, I, I just dug real deep, you know, and, yeah, worked real hard. And, yeah, we all did on that show. And, you know, in fact, a lot of people who work on the show, big fan of this podcast, so. Hello, Veronica. Okay. And so, yeah, so, you know, we all, you know, broke our backs for it and. Yeah. But I wrote day and night, obsessively, constantly digging deeper and deeper. It was tough. It was tough. It was a tough process.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And the. The outcome. So, I mean, I imagine you didn't quite know what to expect.

[Richard Gad]

No, I didn't. I think, you know, a lot of people, like, I think I believed in it, and I almost don't. I think I did believe in it, and I believed it would be a success. Did I believe it was going to sort of, like, be this cultural explosion to the fact that I'm out here suddenly on this podcast?

[Marc Maron]

And didn't you just want a Golden Globe?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, just want to go on Globe as well. So I never would have thought that. I mean, Golden Globes wouldn't have even come into my mind. Emmys, stuff like this. It just wasn't on my radar. In the uk, you would pray and hope that you maybe get BAFTA or you would be nominated or maybe being BAFTA contention, but I wasn't even thinking about that. I knew I was making this dark, weird, idiosyncratic show that maybe no one would watch, but might be hopefully artistically celebrated. And that was probably what I thought. Yeah, yeah. And I kept hearing the words, this might be a cult hit. And usually cult hit means no one will watch it, but a few people might like it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right.

[Richard Gad]

And. And I kept hearing that to the point where I almost was, like, quite pessimistic about it. I was. I still believed in it in my soul. But I think enough people thought that not many people would watch it or had estimated that not many people would watch it. There was a bit of a kind of. Oh, man.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

I really believe in this. Come on. I think it could do well. Yeah. But I think a lot of people thought it might disappear without a trace.

[Marc Maron]

Just not Netflix.

[Richard Gad]

How weird it is Netflix. It's hard to tell, I think, I think. I think that everyone had a different.

[Marc Maron]

Opinion, really, once you got the scripts in.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, I think. Well, once it was shot, really, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Richard Gad]

I think. Yeah. That we had a long edit and, you know, figuring it out and moving stuff around and making Drastic cuts. And you know, that we really went through it in the edit in a lot of ways. And I think by the end of it, there was a whole myriad of opinions as to how it would go. I think some people thought, you know, it would be. Maybe no one at all would watch it.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't know anything about it.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you know, and I think. I don't know. I can't remember. I remember like, I was like, well, what is this? You know, and then when I watched, I was like, you gotta watch it because, you know, it personally resonated with me in a way and it, you know, I thought it was mind blowing. And I. And I. For all the reasons that you're talking about. So now after this is done, what do you. What do you end up. What do you think doing? What do you. What. What do you. Sorry, I'm just.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. No. Is everything all right?

[Marc Maron]

I think so.

[Richard Gad]

Are we. Yeah, we're okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I can confidently say we're okay. So once you exercise, you know, these parts of you and you're the kind of act that you are, even if you do, you've done a lot of these high concept shows. They were driven by a vulnerability and a place, you know, of darkness. And you. I mean, how do you feel in terms of your confidence to generate outside of yourself?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, like do. Because I'm doing a new show now which is generating outside of myself fictional world, fictional characters. Really excited for the challenge, really. It actually feels quite nice to have a break. This inward looking, self sabotaging, self hating sort of habit of writing that I developed. It's definitely time to spin 180 and try a different thing. And so I'm doing a BBC HBO show now called Half man, filming in a couple of weeks actually and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And how. And how different is the. The character from you if there is a single character?

[Richard Gad]

Very different.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm taking a real. Taking a real gamble, but I believe in that. I believe he's a guy, the guy.

[Marc Maron]

Like acting in it.

[Richard Gad]

I'm going to act in it. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not. I'm not. We've got Jamie Bell playing the main character, which is pretty cool. Really cool. Yeah, yeah. And. But yeah, the character's departure for sure, from. From Donny Dunn. And. But I believe in kind of risk taking. I think the key to a good career almost this risk. Risk. And so I'm.

[Marc Maron]

And HBO's doing this one.

[Richard Gad]

HBO? BBC. Yeah. And I think.

[Marc Maron]

Did Netflix not want to.

[Richard Gad]

Well, this was actually commissioned before Baby Reindeer or during Baby Reindeer. And so I'm actually going back and honoring that commission right after BBC. Right after Baby Reindeer finished. I love BBC. Love.

[Marc Maron]

They Must love.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, yeah. And I love the project and I really want it to be good. So I'm gonna work real hard and it will. Ambie, I have been working really hard in it.

[Marc Maron]

And you're shooting now.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, gonna shoot in a couple of weeks.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Richard Gad]

And so, yeah, there's a lot. I'm a lot of writing and a lot of casting and a lot of all these things going on. But. But I'm, you know, and then I'm flying out here every now and again to do like the odd sort of thing, but. So it's a really busy time.

[Marc Maron]

Are you directing too?

[Richard Gad]

Not directing this one? No. We've got Alexandria Brodsky directing it, which I'm really excited for.

[Marc Maron]

It's a one off or it's a series?

[Richard Gad]

It's a one off.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah. I quite like. I quite like a limited. I like a limited series. You can kind of. It gives you freedom to go out and do.

[Marc Maron]

But it is a series. But a limited series.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What are you looking like, six episodes?

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, six episodes. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Richard Gad]

So it's. Yeah, it's exciting and it's a new challenge and it's something I haven't done before and. Yeah. And I get nervous stepping outside my comfort zone, but you got to do it, I think.

[Marc Maron]

And how's your personal life?

[Richard Gad]

Pretty non existent. I've been such a workaholic for so many years. I almost don't have a personal life. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And how are your folks feeling about all the revelations and the process?

[Richard Gad]

Taking it in their stride. They almost became kind of famous for a hot minute as well when the show came out. You know, they were impressed on their doorstep and. And people desperate to interview my parents and all this kind of stuff.

[Marc Maron]

How'd they take to that?

[Richard Gad]

They took to it really in their stride. They're really strong. My parents, they're strong, but I think they thought it was all. I don't think anyone, any family can be prepared for the kind of onslaught that kind of came or the kind of sudden interest in me and in that.

[Marc Maron]

And then the intrigue after and whatever happened after outside of.

[Richard Gad]

Yeah, exactly. And so. But they've been. They've been very strong and taking it in their stride. They're so supportive, you know, like, they've never ever told me not to do what I'm doing in the sense of. I Always think a lot of parents, you know, if somebody's like, I'm going off to be a comedian actor.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Gad]

It'd make them nervous, but they were very supportive.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good. Well, it was certainly great talking to you. I'm glad we were able to do it.

[Richard Gad]

Yes. And you. Thanks so much having me on, that was a real honor. I've listened to this podcast so much, so thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, great talking to you. Heavy conversation. I recommend you watch Baby Reindeer. It is. It is brutal. It is real. It could be very disturbing to some people, but the honesty of it is a rare thing. Again, Richard is nominated for a SAG Award for his performance in Baby Reindeer. Hang out for a minute, people. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there, and hoping it all works out? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it [e-mail] and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Folks, four years ago today, we were still hunkering down at home doing interviews over Zoom, but that allowed me to talk to Kate Winslet, who was also stuck at home over in England. Like, I woke up in a lockdown frenzy. Just aggravated you?

[Richard Gad]

No, actually.

[Marc Maron]

Well, actually, no.

[Richard Gad]

I was slightly agitated because I didn't sleep very well last night.

[Marc Maron]

Why? What do you think? What's happening? No, nothing.

[Richard Gad]

I mean, no specific reason. Although I did dream that I got vaccinated and that it didn't work. So maybe I was woken up out of that. Well, I dreamt that they had done that. They had put the vaccination. The needle had gone into my arm. Only half of the vial had gone in. They'd taken the needle out and the liquid was spraying all over, like, me, all over the floor. And then no one seemed to know how to cope with it, what to do. So they couldn't work out whether they should re vaccinate me just half a vial, whether they should just discount that one and just do the whole thing all over again.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Richard Gad]

It was very anxious. Making it just because nobody knew what the protocol was. And that I found really scary.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's a global problem.

[Richard Gad]

Well, precisely. I mean, I was dreaming about the world. Clearly.

[Marc Maron]

That's Kate Winswit. From episode 1192, and you can listen to that for free on whatever app you're using for every episode of WTF Ad Free. Sign up for WTF plus Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acast. This is one Take Guitar. I didn't have time or the mental fortitude to sit here and work it out for an hour. Okay, talk to you later. Thanks for being there.

[Richard Gad]

It sa.

[Marc Maron]

Boomer lives Monkey and La Fonda cat angels everywhere.