Episode 1611 - Sophie Buddle

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast
Episode 1611 - Sophie Buttle
Release Date: January 23, 2025

In Episode 1611 of the WTF with Marc Maron podcast, host Marc Maron engages in a deep and candid conversation with Canadian comedian Sophie Buttle. The episode delves into a myriad of topics, including personal experiences with crises, immigration challenges, the Canadian political landscape, the intricacies of stand-up comedy, and the dynamics of maintaining personal relationships within the entertainment industry.

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1. Introduction and Current Climate ([03:12] - [04:50])

Marc Maron opens the episode amidst a backdrop of national unrest and environmental disasters, specifically referencing widespread fires:

Marc Maron [03:30]: "America is getting greater by the minute. It feels so great to have a third of the population paralyzed in fear."

This statement sets a tense tone as Marc discusses the collective fear and despair affecting the nation, emphasizing the challenges of maintaining empathy in such times.

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2. Introducing Sophie Buttle ([04:51] - [05:20])

Marc introduces Sophie Buttle as a talented comedian from Canada, highlighting her current tour and previous collaborations:

Marc Maron [05:10]: "Today on the show, I'm going to talk to Sophie Buttle. She's a very funny comic. She opened for me."

Sophie’s background as a Canadian comedian sets the stage for discussions that bridge both American and Canadian perspectives.

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3. Personal Experiences with Crises ([05:21] - [10:00])

Sophie shares her firsthand experience with evacuating her home in West Hollywood due to nearby fires:

Sophie Buttle [08:30]: "We decided to evacuate because our street was touching the fire."

This segment underscores the immediate impact of environmental disasters on individuals and the emotional turmoil that accompanies such events.

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4. Immigration and Work Visa Challenges ([10:01] - [17:00])

The conversation shifts to Sophie’s struggles with her work visa, detailing the complexities and personal ramifications of immigration:

Sophie Buttle [20:37]: "My work visa got denied, which was a real shock."

Sophie elaborates on the bureaucratic hurdles she faced, including changes in representation and legal assistance, highlighting the precarious nature of visa-dependent careers in entertainment.

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5. Canadian Political Landscape ([17:01] - [25:00])

Sophie provides insight into Canada’s political environment, especially in light of recent elections and party dynamics:

Sophie Buttle [32:10]: "Pierre Poliev, the conservative, seems like everybody in Canada has agreed that it's just going to be him."

They discuss the rise of the New Democratic Party (NDP) and its potential to influence future policies, contrasting it with the traditional Liberal and Conservative parties.

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6. Move from Canada to the U.S. ([25:01] - [35:00])

Both Marc and Sophie reflect on their decisions to relocate from Canada to the United States, examining the cultural and societal differences:

Sophie Buttle [38:16]: "I left Canada because I felt bored, like I had done everything there was to do in comedy."

They explore the allure of the American entertainment industry juxtaposed with the perceived steadiness of Canadian life.

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7. Stand-Up Comedy Insights ([35:01] - [50:00])

The duo delves into the mechanics of stand-up comedy, discussing the challenges of writing, performing, and adapting to different audiences:

Marc Maron [45:22]: "I'm basically writing part of the show, and then you have your own act, which, like, a lot of times when you're performing standup, you're working out stuff that becomes a half hour."

Sophie shares her experiences of writing for others and maintaining her unique comedic voice while adhering to different performance contexts.

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8. Relationship Dynamics in Comedy ([50:01] - [60:00])

Sophie discusses her relationship with fellow comedian Mace Galone, emphasizing compatibility and mutual support within the demanding world of stand-up:

Sophie Buttle [60:09]: "I date a comic. Mace Galone. We're very compatible."

They touch upon the balance between personal life and professional responsibilities, highlighting the importance of understanding and support from partners who share similar career paths.

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9. Navigating Stand-Up Growth and Digital Media ([60:01] - [70:00])

The conversation shifts to the impact of digital media on stand-up comedy, particularly the prevalence of clips and the pressure to create sharable content:

Sophie Buttle [66:07]: "A lot of comics are writing jokes with clips in mind. Keeping it really short... things that I don't think are valuable to long-form standup."

Both Marc and Sophie express concerns about the fragmentation of comedic content and the loss of narrative depth in pursuit of viral moments.

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10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts ([70:01] - [78:56])

In the episode's closing moments, Marc and Sophie reflect on the nature of comedy as a tool for social commentary and personal expression:

Marc Maron [76:16]: "The freedom of thought and speech with stand-up is that you're taking a risk."

They discuss the responsibility of comedians to push boundaries while maintaining respect and empathy for diverse audiences, ultimately appreciating the nuanced role of humor in societal discourse.

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Notable Quotes

• Marc Maron [03:30]: "America is getting greater by the minute. It feels so great to have a third of the population paralyzed in fear."

• Sophie Buttle [08:30]: "We decided to evacuate because our street was touching the fire."

• Sophie Buttle [20:37]: "My work visa got denied, which was a real shock."

• Sophie Buttle [32:10]: "Pierre Poliev, the conservative, seems like everybody in Canada has agreed that it's just going to be him."

• Marc Maron [45:22]: "I'm basically writing part of the show, and then you have your own act, which, like, a lot of times when you're performing standup, you're working out stuff that becomes a half hour."

• Sophie Buttle [66:07]: "A lot of comics are writing jokes with clips in mind. Keeping it really short... things that I don't think are valuable to long-form standup."

• Marc Maron [76:16]: "The freedom of thought and speech with stand-up is that you're taking a risk."

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Conclusion

Episode 1611 of WTF with Marc Maron offers a profound exploration of the intersection between personal struggle and professional artistry. Through Sophie Buttle's experiences, listeners gain insight into the resilience required to navigate the tumultuous landscapes of both the entertainment industry and political climates. The episode underscores the power of comedy as a medium for both healing and challenging societal norms, all while highlighting the importance of maintaining authenticity and empathy amidst chaos.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Hey, sometimes it takes a little push to get you going in the new year, right? And Peloton can give you the push you need to keep you on top of your fitness goals. I'm lucky. I've got mountains outside my window always reminding me that it's time to go on a hike. But if you don't have that, you can have Peloton offering you a variety of challenging classes that can fit into your schedule. You can challenge yourself anywhere with Peloton's all access membership. Work out at home or take your favorite classes on the go and at the gym with the Peloton app. Find your push, find your power with peloton. [e-mail] Becoming Led Zeppelin explores the origins of rock's greatest band and their meteoric rise in just one year against all odds. Powered by awe inspiring, psychedelic, never before seen footage, performances and music, Bernard McMahon's experimental cinematic odyssey explores Led Zeppelin's creative, musical and personal origin story. In the band's own words, as the first officially sanctioned documentary on the group. A one week exclusive IMAX engagement starts February 7th in theaters everywhere. February 14th tickets@becoming led zeppelin film.com lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? Nicks, what's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Here we go. How's everything out there? How are you doing? How are you handling it? Are you okay? Are you paralyzed? Are you despondent on your couch at your desk? Are you despondent at the gym? Are you doing everything you can to try to get out of the hole of despair and misery? Are you? Well, look, a lot of it's out of your control, so, you know, take a load off. Yeah, but it's happening. Here we go. America is getting greater by the minute. It feels so great to have a third of the population paralyzed in fear. What an amazing feeling it must be. For them, that's the hardest part to get around, is that, yeah, they love it. They love that you're terrified. They love that you're scared. They love that you're in pain. They love that you're concerned. I mean, the fact that that fucking guy at the church takes offense to a minister, asking him to be merciful like that was some affront. How dare you? How dare you ask me to have a heart or empathy or sympathy or any sense of human connection to the peoples whose lives I'm going to ruin? I'm going to Ruin it. Because so many people just love it. They love it. Rip them out of their homes. They love it. Put them on buses. Oh, my God. Separate them from their kids.

[Sophie Buttle]

Whoa.

[Marc Maron]

It's the best. Why isn't there around the clock station just showing this? Oh, man. Empathy is for suckers. They don't know how good this feels. To thoroughly enjoy people in pain, people in fear, people who are hopeless. Oh, I'm eating their fucking hearts like it's a fucking cake. Yeah, so I don't know what you do with that. You know what I mean? I hope it's. It was all worth it to get those. The price of groceries down. For those of the people that are just kind of half in, just made the decision just to sort of get their feet wet and work on a kind of a reactive, emotionally reactive decision against the status quo of an attempt at decency. Yeah, just. Yeah, I just. It just. I just. It just makes me feel better. I hope. Hope those. Hope that loaf of bread is worth it. All that blood and pain. I guess people can detach themselves from that. But look, on a lighter note, there's another huge fire north of here. So, yeah, I've been kind of monitoring that. I don't think I'm any danger right now. But you just watch that goddamn map. And it's astounding. They're popping up everywhere. The layers of fear and despair available right now are. Man, it is just a massive, massive bludgeoning force in my brain. I know you guys are feeling it, but, you know, maybe have some ice cream or something, huh? Maybe have a little ice cream, you know, maybe take a break from it. Maybe. Maybe just don't check in until nine. You know, Look, I. I only wish, and I'm not speaking as somebody who does this, the idea that we do what we can and we feel like there's nothing we can do is real. The idea that, you know, we don't have anyone watching our backs or representation that seems to be snapping into action in any way. Granted, it's only been a few days and we all expected all of this to happen. I was a bit surprised at the hell Hitlers by the richest man in the world. That was. It's not a great feeling, I don't think for anybody that the partnership of the bombastic greed demon and the richest guy in the world who has his fingers on all the knobs of our minds, him and a few others. That whole allegiance doesn't seem great, huh? Just controlling us all from their. From our phones. It doesn't Seem great, huh? All those things you signed up for, they know it all. All right, today on the show, I'm going to talk to a Sophie Buttle. She's a very funny comic. She. She opened for me. Where did I work with her? Well, I guess we worked together a while ago. She's from Canada originally. She's very funny. She's currently touring and. Yeah, that's going to happen. And that's. And she's fun. I put some walnuts out for the squirrel, so we'll see what happens with that. I did it before, but anyway, just kind of watching the fires in the. In the real world here and in the political world there. Yeah. I do wish, though, on some level, that people were as focused and in and full of intent and fury as firefighters are. I talked about this the last show. Just. It's a miracle, thank God, that they exist. People that love fighting fires, real ones. I wish half of us could find that passion for fighting metaphorical fires that are just burning down our social fabric and our political reality. But no, man, I don't know. What do I do? I just watched 1214, you know, IG posts about this, and everybody seems sad. What do I do? I guess I could. You know what I'll do? I'll post one of my own. That ought to do it. It won't. Anyway, cats are good. Cats are good. And I've learned that chickpeas and lentils are the way to go. These are the things that are happening. I cleaned out my office getting rid of a lot of books, shredded a lot of papers and had some Indian food, read an article on chickpeas and lentils, which I eat constantly. Chickpeas. Because I was wondering what was, you know, making my guts better. Thought it was the magnesium potassium aspartate. But no, I think it's the chickpeas and pickled stuff. Yeah. So, you know, maybe you should think a little bit about that. Chickpeas, pickled stuff, kitty cats. All right, guys, listen up. If you're dealing with hair loss, it doesn't mean you can't find it again when you try hims. You'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who stopped hair loss and grew back their confidence. When you use hims, you get clinically proven treatments that can regrow hair in as little as three to six months. And you don't even have to visit a doctor to get started. It's 100% online. You just answer a few questions, and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed Your treatment is sent to you for free. No insurance is needed, and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. Start your free online Visit [e-mail] WTF that's H I M S for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hims.com WTF results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. Oh my God. We are in the. We're in the soup, man. The hell soup. I think it's funny when these trolls. It's all about trolls. They're all trolling. It's all constant. They love to get us worked up and then call us crazy. You're not crazy. You're not crazy if you're able to experience empathy, concern, the desire for the well being of your fellow Americans in a way that they can live their life the way they want to live it without being terrified of being brutalized mentally, spiritually or psychologically. You're not crazy. I mean, I think you should be angry. I think anger would be good, but you know, if you don't temper it a little bit, they're just going to call you crazy. Oh, look at them flying off the handle. Look at the meltdown. They're all melting down. No, no, no one's melting down. It's the reasonable reaction to fascism. If you aren't on board, the reasonable reaction is, fuck this shit. God damn it. Now what do we do? How do we fight this shit? These fuckers, they've dehumanized everybody other than them with all types of devices that keep happening, whether it's conspiracy theories or just name calling or now legislation, dehumanizing. Not a great first step towards anything other than, you know, getting rid of the dehuman. But again, ice cream's good. Watch an old movie. You know what I mean? We're not crazy. And you should try to stay that way. A lot of people are going down. A lot of people are losing their minds. Can't say that. I won't. Don't know. A lot of people are, are taking their own life. A lot of people are, you know, unable to get out of a chair. A lot of people can't stop looking at their phone and allowing it to beat the shit out of their brain because of. I don't think it's a need to be afraid, but if you are wired a certain way, there's a certain way of being where you always thought you were a little fucked and now you're way fucked along with a lot of other people. But if you can try to temper that shit, I know you don't want to feel out of the loop. I'm having a hard time not seeing where that fire is. There are so many fires just popping up. I can't even. It's hard to frame it because it is utterly apocalyptic. And, you know, it's hard to not think that, like, this is it, the world is going. I really didn't think I'd be alive for this shit. Glad I don't have kids. A little worried about my cats, but yeah. Yeah, I'm going to go do some comedy tonight. I got the tour coming up. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Libero Theater on Florida, Thursday, January 30th. Then I'm in San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont center on Friday, January 31st. Golden State Theater in Monterey by the Beach, Saturday, February 1st. Ingler Theater, Iowa City, Thursday, February 13th Des Moines, Iowa, at Hoyt Sherman Place, Friday, February 14th Kansas City, Missouri Midland Theater Saturday, February 15th Asheville, North Carolina, at the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20th. That's sold out. I'm sorry, I'm only doing one show. Should I do another show? I don't know. Nashville, Tennessee, at the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21st. Not sold out. Come on down. What happened to you people in Nashville? Don't tell me, I know. And Lexington, Kentucky, at the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd. Those should be big shows for me down in those states. Then in March and April, I'll be coming to Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all my dates and links to tickets. New dates will be showing up soon. That's quite a few red states there. But, you know, I know you guys are there. The huddled masses keeping quiet, waiting for something to happen that you can relate to that'll reconnect you with the sort of empathetic or at least connective laughter that you need in moments to somehow feel better in this shitstorm of ideology and weather. Hope you have good friends, hope you find some way to be proactive. But this is going to go on for a while and I can't do these pep talks all the time. As I said, chickpeas are good. Watching a movie is nice. Eating ice cream, spending time with people you love. But don't just do it in just a state of panic unless you have to evacuate. Looks like Mark Normand had a baby. Congratulations. I only die. I don't follow. I have a very weird follow list on Instagram. But I saw that Mark had a baby. Okay, so here we go. Sophie Buttle is here. Her 2025 tour dates are posted on her Instagram page [e-mail] I like her. She's funny. And we had a nice chat during the fire. So this is me talking to Sophie. It's a new year, folks, so why not set those expectations high? Right now, the sky's the limit, so take aim at something bold, like challenging yourself to learn a new language or 25 new languages. Rosetta Stone is the world class language learning program that can get you started. Available on your desktop or as an app. I know what kind of listeners I have. And you're curious, intelligent, and always on the lookout for new things. You're the perfect people to start learning new languages with. Rosetta Stone. Millions of Rosetta Stone users have learned how to speak 25 different languages, including Spanish, French, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, Arabic and Polish. Lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages. So start the new year off with a resolution you can reach today. WTF Listeners can take advantage of Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership. For 50% off, visit rosettastone.com WTF that's 50% off. Unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your Life. Redeem your 50% [e-mail] wt wait, so you can just opt out of anxiety? That's the kind of will you have?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I'm depressive leaning. I'm not anxiety leaning. So different issues.

[Marc Maron]

So in moments of crisis, you just get sad?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think I'm not very connected to my emotions. And so in moments of crisis, I don't feel that I'm really analyzing it at all. I think I'm. Yeah, I'll get sad afterwards, but I don't really experience anxiety ever. The most anxious, truly I've been in my life has been this week just surrounded by fires. But I would say that I don't have anxiety now.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, yeah, but I mean, but in relation to this, I mean, where do you live?

[Sophie Buttle]

West Hollywood.

[Marc Maron]

So what went down over there?

[Sophie Buttle]

We had to evacuate. We were. We.

[Marc Maron]

You were above Hollywood Boulevard or.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, the sunset fire was right next to my place.

[Marc Maron]

I saw that from my hotel room where I evacuated for safety.

[Sophie Buttle]

I evacuated.

[Marc Maron]

I know, but I was like, I left here, you know, in order to avoid whatever I thought was coming, and I got a hotel at that Hampton Inn on Vine to just up from Santa Monica. And I got the cat settled, and I was like, all right, I'll be okay here tonight. And I'm looking out my window, and I saw the hillside explode. Exploded.

[Sophie Buttle]

It was really crazy. I. First I was gaslighting my boyfriend. Cause I was boiling pasta, and then he came into the kitchen and said, I smell fire. And then I said, no, I'm just boiling pasta. That's what you smell, right? And then he said, no, it really. It smells really smoky. It smells like fire. And I said, you sound crazy. I was gaslighting him. You sound so crazy. I'm also. I also have the kettle on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Because I'm gonna make tea.

[Marc Maron]

You just wouldn't accept it.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I just. I really, for some reason, didn't think that it was fire. It was fire. And then we turned on the news, and it was. We could see our street. Our street was the one that's like. It's touching the fire. So we decided to evacuate.

[Marc Maron]

You live right up in the hills there?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no, just bottom of West Hollywood.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no shit.

[Sophie Buttle]

But walkable to Runyon, right? Not anymore, obviously.

[Marc Maron]

Well, no. I mean, the geography is still there.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's true.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, what, they've got it all closed off?

[Sophie Buttle]

I imagine so.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you haven't tried. It wasn't. You didn't feel like a hike today?

[Sophie Buttle]

No. Have you been outside at all? Have you been trying to not go outside?

[Marc Maron]

The air's good here today.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, it is good.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like, I look at the app, and, like, it's like the air is okay today. Yeah, but. So did you see the fire from your house?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Yeah, I got some pictures. It was really close.

[Marc Maron]

So in that moment, you felt anxiety?

[Sophie Buttle]

It felt a little exciting. I think people that have more depression than anxiety, it almost feels good to feel something to get the blood pumping. Because my resting heart rate is so low, it's kind of boring.

[Marc Maron]

What is your resting heart rate?

[Sophie Buttle]

4. I don't know. I don't know how to measure it.

[Marc Maron]

You get one of these dumb watches of one kind or another. Maybe I'm obsessed with my resting heart rate.

[Sophie Buttle]

But does it upset you to see it?

[Marc Maron]

No. If it's low, it's good. I mean, I don't have high blood pressure. My resting heart rate is good because I exercise a lot. My cholesterol is a little borderline, but the rest of it is okay. The pumper. So you ran off. Do you have pets?

[Sophie Buttle]

Nope. No pets.

[Marc Maron]

That was easy.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. My boyfriend and I went to Anaheim and stayed at a hotel for a couple days.

[Marc Maron]

You just got your go bags together. Did you bring your papers?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes, that was the first thing that I packed. Well, I had packed a bag a couple days before when the fires were not even close to us, just with my passport and my work visa because I also just went through crazy work visa issues where my visa got denied and I couldn't work and I thought I was gonna get deported. So I feel very precious about my work visa.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

But yeah, grab that. Grab my passport. I actually, I was kind of. I was embarrassed that I grabbed my Dyson hair wrap.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

It just. I grabbed so many things that were replaceable. Like, you know, I grabbed my laptop.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's the weird thing, you know, like about these evacuations here is that you realize when you drive across town, everything's still there. Like, you know, you can just go to Target. You can go get whatever you need, go to a bank machine. Like, I evacuated. I brought like two pairs of underwear, a couple pairs of socks, cat food and cash. Like I was gonna make it down to Mexico with just the bare essentials.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. It really does let you know how you're gonna react in an apocalyptic situation.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think I. For the apocalyptic situation, like, for real, like, you better bring better go bag.

[Sophie Buttle]

I think so too. I don't think my work visa is going to fight off any looters.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, it's just sort of like, you know, then it's sort of like, is there going to be electricity? They always, every. Every emergency situation requires this like hand crank radio.

[Sophie Buttle]

You got to get the hand crank radio.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like, I mean, when was the last time you listened to a radio?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, never. I'm a young, beautiful woman. I don't know. The radio.

[Marc Maron]

Radio, that's of another time. That's like old timey shit.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. No radios in the house. Parents. No radios?

[Sophie Buttle]

No. My parents both like the radio. My dad had a radio show, so he's a real. And my mom's an artist and she always has the radio on in her art room.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah. Where they listen to music or the public radio music. The light talking folks, I think mostly music. Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. But I like talk radio.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't listen to anything but music. I used to listen to npr. I used to know all the folks working on NPR giving me the news.

[Sophie Buttle]

You don't listen to NPR anymore?

[Marc Maron]

I don't. I don't know why I used to listen in my car. I think I feel like I'm getting the information that they're getting on my phone. So I could. If I could do npr, like, if I look at the right sources, I kind of get it.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, definitely listening comes after reading. Like, they, you know, they put out the news in writing first, and then they decide what story is worth talking about.

[Marc Maron]

Well, thank you for telling me how that works, Sophie. I appreciate it.

[Sophie Buttle]

No problem. That's why I'm here. Just to really break it down for you.

[Marc Maron]

It was all a mystery to me. I thought they were just getting it through their earpieces as it happened.

[Sophie Buttle]

No. If you can believe it, a lot of them actually write the stories that you read.

[Marc Maron]

That's why I think that's called journalism.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, we don't have that in Canada.

[Marc Maron]

You have no journalism in Canada. So wait, what was the problem with the work visa? How does that. Like, have you ever been deported?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I've never been deported, but from here. I've never been deported from America. True.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

But my work visa got denied, which was. It was just a real shock.

[Marc Maron]

What do you make of that?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I think that my lawyer made a mistake, and then so I got a new lawyer, but she maintains that she did not make a mistake. So I don't know what happened.

[Marc Maron]

But now do you know people that have, like, how does that. Are they on top of that shit?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I don't know. I know hundreds of Canadian comics, and I don't know anybody who's ever had their visa denied, but maybe they just don't talk about it. But I was really shocked by that.

[Marc Maron]

Do you know any that are just here without visas?

[Sophie Buttle]

Of course. Right? Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it, but there used to be a really good legal loophole for Canadian comedians, which was the Cirque du Soleil visa. Have you heard about this?

[Marc Maron]

No. I like the sound of it, though. It sounds fun.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. So because Cirque du Soleil has, you know, they have all their people, and they travel all over the world. They have a pretty simple visa for their performers, but also for all the people to set up the tents and that kind of thing. And so the person who booked or bankrolled or whatever at Cirque du Soleil was a big fan of Canadian standup comedians.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Sophie Buttle]

So she would give Canadian comics the Cirque du Soleil visia and they could come to the States and perform.

[Marc Maron]

This is one person at the customs agency or. Who was it?

[Sophie Buttle]

It's One person that. That works at Cirque du Soleil.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Cirque du Soleil.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. I. I didn't do that visa. I was. I was too late to that one. But it was a pretty good.

[Marc Maron]

They. They got. They got wind of that loophole.

[Sophie Buttle]

I believe it was closed a few years ago. Yes.

[Marc Maron]

So you just have a regular work visa.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, but, like, no gymnastics.

[Marc Maron]

What. What about. Is that different than the living visa?

[Sophie Buttle]

The living visa?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like, you have a visa that allows you to work, and that's not separate from the visa just enabling you to be here.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, the work visa is what allows me to be here.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so now you think, like, have you known anybody where that was had an expired work visa or no work visa and they were taken away?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, but usually you have something like 180 days of grace period after your work visa expires if you're still with the company that applied for your work visa for you. But because I was with ICM at the time, and ICM applied for my work visa, and ICM no longer exists, I didn't get that grace period.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I see. So that's why you think your lawyer screwed up, because they didn't update it to your current agency?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think that could be what it is. I haven't looked too much into it because now I have a work visa, everything's all set. Got a new lawyer, got a new work visa, and I'm all set. So I only look forward.

[Marc Maron]

And you're with a new agency? Yeah, icm. What happened to icm?

[Sophie Buttle]

I can't remember was I got bought by caa.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, right. Okay. So you were at CAA now?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I'm at WME now.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so you went over there.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They sold you a bill of goods? Sounded right.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, no, I was with caa, and then they dropped me, so I went over to wme.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Canadians. I'm waiting to hear about my application for pr.

[Sophie Buttle]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Have you spent a lot of time in Canada? I have enough for touring or for other stuff?

[Marc Maron]

Well, it was sort of like this. I wanted to be able to do it because I wanted to be able to get out, because I do not. You know, I am a catastrophic thinker, and I don't think things are going to go well. Yeah, I don't think they're going to. I just don't want to be. I don't want to be the Jew at the border without his papers.

[Sophie Buttle]

Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

If I'm going to head north, I want to have more than just a Few scripts or ideas. I don't want to be accustomed pitching them some show ideas for cbc.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, but they would love to have you at cbc.

[Marc Maron]

It feels like, you know, everyone gets a shot at CBC if you hang around Canada long enough.

[Sophie Buttle]

I worked at CBC for many years. I wrote for a show called 22 Minutes, which is a CBC News comedy program.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Do you know the show that Robbie Hoffman wrote for the children's show? She wrote for a children's show forever.

[Sophie Buttle]

I know that she wrote for a children's show, but I never knew which one.

[Marc Maron]

I can't remember which one, but, like, what a. I know.

[Sophie Buttle]

I wonder if it was Tele Francais. That was, like, the really iconic one.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I don't know if it was French. Maybe it was. Huh. So you come from Canada. That's your place.

[Sophie Buttle]

I do come from Canada.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't know who you were. You just showed up and you were just, you know, full of the juice. The beans.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I'm full of beans. And we also have a shared best friend, Ali Makofsky. She's picking me up here later.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. We're gonna go see the Brutalist at the.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I thought she was gonna go do that yesterday.

[Sophie Buttle]

We were supposed to do that yesterday. And then I forget what happened.

[Marc Maron]

But time got away from you. Yeah, yeah. She just worked with me in Napa and in Sacramento.

[Sophie Buttle]

How were those shows?

[Marc Maron]

Interesting?

[Sophie Buttle]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

I was fairly traumatized on the Friday, and that turned out to be great.

[Sophie Buttle]

Because of the fires.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. And my audience is sort of like, okay, this is where he's at. Saturday got a little weird in Napa, but there's a lot of weird how some crowd management was necessary for both good and bad. Had some people that were very excited to see me and were gift givers that needed to do that during the show. And then I had a drunk lady who wouldn't stop yelping.

[Sophie Buttle]

Do you get a lot of drunk ladies at your shows?

[Marc Maron]

No, not usually. But that town, I don't know. Like, my theory is on that, is that Napa is one of those towns where people go for the weekend or for a week to do the wine and, you know, kind of bougie vacation thing. And I do think there might have been some people who were like, what's going on around town? Oh, there's a comedy show.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Almost like a classier Vegas audience.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of my fans came in from the Bay Area, but I do think there were some people that were like, I never heard of this guy. Let's go check it out. And that's a lot. If you don't know what you're getting into with me, it's not going to be the standard fare.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, it requires a little bit more of you.

[Marc Maron]

Something. Yeah, you opened for me. Where was that?

[Sophie Buttle]

In Austin, at Moon Tower.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that was kid.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, that was great.

[Marc Maron]

Right? You ready to open for some more? But you're a big shot now. You don't open for people.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, all I do is open for people. I'm opening for Taylor Tomlinson all next month.

[Marc Maron]

Really? That'll be fun.

[Sophie Buttle]

That will be fun.

[Marc Maron]

Your audiences will be good. And now she's, like, newly gay, so that brings in a whole other bunch.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes, she's gay now, so now we have the gays as well. Lots of fun.

[Marc Maron]

So what part of Canada did you grow up in?

[Sophie Buttle]

Born in Montreal, went to high school in Ottawa, and then right after high school, I moved to Vancouver for whatever, seven or eight years, and then I moved here.

[Marc Maron]

How long were you in Montreal for?

[Sophie Buttle]

Until I was about 5. My mom had to flee the city due to unpaid parking tickets.

[Marc Maron]

So that happens in Montreal?

[Sophie Buttle]

For her it does. She was in school at the time. She was going to McGill. And she would just drive home when she had you? Yeah. Yeah. So she would take me into.

[Marc Maron]

How old was she when she had you?

[Sophie Buttle]

28.

[Marc Maron]

Oh.

[Sophie Buttle]

And so, yeah, she was going back to school? No, I think that she was just going to school then.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Sophie Buttle]

I believe. But she was going to school for math and she was. Yeah, for like, abstract math. She's smart girl.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Sophie Buttle]

Okay. And she would drive up right to the front door of whatever building she had a class in and just would leave her car there. And then when she would come back, you know, there'd be a ticket or two and she'd just put it in the back seat and forget about it. And then that ended up really following her for a long time. And eventually she. She lent someone her car, and then they immediately got arrested for the amount of unpaid parking tickets and put a boot on her car.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And then we went to Ottawa.

[Marc Maron]

So she didn't pay the tickets?

[Sophie Buttle]

No. And she said that she's still scared to drive in Montreal. Wow.

[Marc Maron]

So you weren't really, like. You weren't forced to leave?

[Sophie Buttle]

We were refugees from Montreal. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Do you speak French?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Does your mom speak French?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Everybody speaks French.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Your mom's a Montreal person?

[Sophie Buttle]

My mom and my dad both spent all their twenties in Montreal. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what's like What's. What's your. What's your dad do?

[Sophie Buttle]

Both my parents are teachers. They're both like artists, but both became teachers after they had a kid accidentally.

[Marc Maron]

Are you Jewish? Are you Montreal Jewish? Yeah, all the way through.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Mom signed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. There's like a big Jewish thing in Montreal, huh?

[Sophie Buttle]

It is a big Jewish thing. Kind of trendy.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that seems to be where the Jews in Canada are.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, totally. There's no Jews in Vancouver at all.

[Marc Maron]

There's not. I don't know.

[Sophie Buttle]

Cause I left and so that was. I was. The Jewish neighborhood. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They put an article in the paper. The Jew is gone.

[Sophie Buttle]

We got her. She's out.

[Marc Maron]

She's out. We got her a work visa. Have fun in America.

[Sophie Buttle]

Have you been following Canadian politics stuff at all this week?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I know that Trudeau's out.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's the headline. You got it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know that. And I know the guy that's gunned him for the position seems like kind of a douche.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Pierre Poliev, like the conservative. It seems like everybody in Canada has sort of agreed that it's just going to be him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Because he's conservative and not openly racist. And so it seems kind of just like it's going to be him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And there's. Is there any other. Is there any lefties that are running against him?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, they're still trying to decide who. Who's going to lead the Liberal Party. But I think this is a really good opportunity for the NDP to. To gain some ground. I've. I've only ever voted for the ndp. They're. They're the more progressive part party. They.

[Marc Maron]

And that stands for National Democratic. Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What is it?

[Sophie Buttle]

New Democrat Party.

[Marc Maron]

All right, so. Okay, maybe you can educate me because, like, you know, I might have to live in Canada.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. You should know this. I think you would really like the ndp. They are sort of. They started it in, I believe, the 60s or the 70s. They are based on the. The labor movement in the uk.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And they are. They run on workers rights and better coverage for pharmaceuticals, for healthcare, and free childcare for mothers, including dental.

[Marc Maron]

They don't have that in Canada.

[Sophie Buttle]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. NDP is the only party that runs on that.

[Marc Maron]

So what does socialized medicine cover?

[Sophie Buttle]

It does cover a lot, but the few things that it doesn't cover, like, to me, it's crazy. If you're gonna cover healthcare, you have to cover dental, too. Dental's a huge part of healthcare. You only got one pair of teeth.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And that's pretty Pricey. But I guess they make it optional. It's like, well, we can just. You have no teeth, or we can put new ones in there. So there's probably a lot of Canadians just missing big chunks of teeth.

[Sophie Buttle]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we also. We love the Queen and we love England, so we keep our bad teeth to honor the English.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so what's the system? Is it a parliamentary system?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes. Yes, it's a parliamentary system. The main three parties are definitely the Liberals, the Conservatives, and the ndp.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Sophie Buttle]

And there have been times that the NDP have been the opposition party, and I think that this actually could be a time that the NDP rises up again.

[Marc Maron]

So the way it works is that there's a majority party and the Prime Minister comes from that.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes. Right now, the Liberals only had a minority in Parliament, but they still had the biggest chunk, so they were in charge.

[Marc Maron]

And now, generally speaking, my impressions of Canada have shifted over the years. Like, you know, I'd go to Montreal, I'd go to the festival, and I'd be like, this place is a filthy, sexy, you know, French mess.

[Sophie Buttle]

Correct.

[Marc Maron]

What was the joke I did up there? I said. Because I. Yeah, I said, it's weird. In Montreal, it looks like everybody is, like, you know, five minutes from just, like, in the street. And in Vancouver, it looks like everyone's like, five minutes away from hiking.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes. Yes. That's perfect. You got it. You absolutely nailed it.

[Marc Maron]

I think I did that on my gala that nobody saw that I hosted.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, same. Yeah, nobody saw the galas. I did either.

[Marc Maron]

How is that fucking possible? I never hear anything. I've appeared on so many of those galas, and then I hosted one. Not one tweet, not one email, not one anything. I think one person said, I saw it on a plane.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, it is a real travesty because watching. Watching the Just For Laughs galas on TV are a really big part of. Of Canada's genetics. And I grew up watching Just For Laughs. Yeah. Just for Laughs.

[Marc Maron]

So they're just keeping it to themselves.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, it basically just shows up on tv. They don't really have a huge social media presence. They don't really do clips, which I think is a disaster.

[Marc Maron]

What about the people watching it? I mean, I couldn't have done that badly that nobody would say anything. Like, I don't get, like, usually, you know, you get an email on your website, like, hey, I just saw you on the gala. Pretty good job. Or even a tweeter or something.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's true. I think. I think truly, it's. I Think usually messages and comments come because they saw a clip online, either promoting it or a clip from it. And I think people watch stuff on TV and then they also. They don't know if it's new. They don't know if it's old. Like, if something comes up.

[Marc Maron]

I just think Canadians just don't. They don't get. They don't volunteer as much information. They're not as needy or as, you know, look at me. Ish.

[Sophie Buttle]

I think it's also, Canadians are really opposed to imposing themselves on others. And I think. I think sending a message would. Would feel like imposing yourself.

[Marc Maron]

I hear some other observations I've had about Canada recently, and I want. I want to know if so, Like, I used to think once I got out of Montreal, that's its own thing. Like, it doesn't. Like, I know it's Canada, but it's its own thing.

[Sophie Buttle]

Totally.

[Marc Maron]

But the other, like, I've been to Toronto. I've shot stuff in Toronto. I've performed in Toronto. I've been to Winnipeg. I've been to Edmonton. I've been to Calgary. I've been to Victoria. I've been. And then I've spent a lot of time in Vancouver because I just shot up there last year for three months.

[Sophie Buttle]

Awesome.

[Marc Maron]

And I used to think, you know, Canada was boring.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

But as I get older, I'm like, well, maybe it's just nice.

[Sophie Buttle]

I know exactly what you mean. And I'm feeling sort of the same thing because I left Canada because I felt bored, because I felt like I had kind of done everything there was to do, at least in comedy in Canada. And then I left, and then now I'm American. So I don't care about Canada. I don't think about it at all.

[Marc Maron]

No, it goes right away.

[Sophie Buttle]

America number one. But I realize now, as all these horrible things happen around us, that Canada is really nice and safe and comfortable. It just doesn't have a great. Doesn't have an edge to it. It doesn't have entertainment industry. So if you're in entertainment, it doesn't feel like it doesn't make sense to live there.

[Marc Maron]

Unless you're like Brent Butt or something.

[Sophie Buttle]

Exactly. Unless you're. Unless you're specifically Brent Butt.

[Marc Maron]

Only he's the only one.

[Sophie Buttle]

I love Brett Butt. He's.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, he's great. Yeah, he's the greatest. But. But, like, also, I realized recently that there's something like, first of all, when you're American and you're sensitive or you're freaked out because of the political or cultural climate here. Right. When you get off the plane in Canada, it's gone.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, it's not here. Whatever. That frenetic, chaotic zeitgeist of the American consciousness, cultural. It just doesn't exist up there. Like, you're all quick to say, like, well, we know what's going on down there. Yeah. But you're not infected by it.

[Sophie Buttle]

No. It does feel very separate. You do feel sort of bubble wrapped.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But I got off the plane, I was like, oh, my God, thank God it's not here.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, it just feels clean. And there's no guns.

[Marc Maron]

It's a big deal, man.

[Sophie Buttle]

The no guns, I think, is the biggest difference. But also it is so much less populated than everywhere in America.

[Marc Maron]

That's. That's what you realize because, like, when I told people, like, I might want to live up there, you know, I have. There's certain, like, political people. I know. They're like, well, it's going to be up there, too. I'm like, yeah, but no one lives up there. There's like 38 million people in the entire fucking country.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

How bad could it get?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. There's less people in Canada than there are in California.

[Marc Maron]

I know it's crazy with the size of the country, but then also I started to realize, like, because I was talking to people and there's an intensity to Americans, I think it's fundamentally kind of needy and you need, you know, things need to be lit up. And I just realized that and I think it might be. My theory is. Well, I feel like there's a ceiling to the Canadian personality. Like you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes. Yeah. Well, it's called Tall Poppy syndrome. I'm sure you've heard of Tall Poppy syndrome. No, no, it's, you know, people talk about it in Canada. People talk about it in Australia, I think probably the UK as well, which is.

[Marc Maron]

Australia's similar.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Yeah. Poppies all grow the same height. And when there's one that gets too high, it gets killed. And so everybody really values averageness. Egoism is not valued. If you get too big for your britches, basically nobody likes that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I see. And poppies are also where opiates come from. So that there is sort of calmness there.

[Sophie Buttle]

Very big for cool.

[Marc Maron]

Tall Poppy syndrome. So you can't get too big for your britches in Canada.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And when you do, if they cut you off, you come to America and become a movie star.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's why. Yeah. All of the. All of the most polite American movie stars are Canadian. Like a Seth Rogen. Like a Ryan Gosling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

They got too big for their britches in Canada, and they're still the most kind of beta Americans.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, and also, what's the name? Ryan Reynolds.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

All right. Tall Poppy syndrome. I'm glad that's what it's called. So you Ottawa. I've never been to Ottawa.

[Sophie Buttle]

Ottawa sucks. It's boring.

[Marc Maron]

So I was right not to perform there.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Because I'm going to do Toronto.

[Sophie Buttle]

Ottawa. People are gonna be mad at me, but.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but they can just drive to Toronto to see me.

[Sophie Buttle]

It is good comedy audiences in Ottawa. Yeah. I would say that the Shining Light in Ottawa is the. Are the comedy clubs there? Oh, yeah, yeah, they've got good clubs. I'm sure you're not doing clubs, but there is a very comedy literate audience in Ottawa.

[Marc Maron]

There's a kind of a comedy literate audience in all of Canada. Like, Winnipeg is kind of a smart place.

[Sophie Buttle]

I love Winnipeg.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, terrain wise, it's a little rough, sure.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, it would be challenging to live there. But it's a great, great comedy city and great thrifting city you can like. Because they have a bunch of Mennonite thrift stores, and I think Mennonites don't believe in being greedy or something. And so you can actually get, like, furniture for like three bucks.

[Marc Maron]

And a lot of black clothing.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. A lot of modest. A lot of modest stuff for sale. No, they keep that for themselves. They sell regular stuff.

[Marc Maron]

But they make the furniture, right?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no, it's like they have, like a Mennonite owned thrift stores.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I see.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. I think, like, I don't know. I thought the Amish or the Mennonites, they. They're. They're making their furniture. Am I thinking of the Shakers? Shaker furniture.

[Sophie Buttle]

I couldn't tell you. To me, that's all the same. Yeah, that's all Amish.

[Marc Maron]

It's all Amish.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's all Amish.

[Marc Maron]

It's Amish and driving Amish.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, Amish.

[Marc Maron]

And then Amish with electricity.

[Sophie Buttle]

Quick Amish.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Faster Amish. So when do you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Too fast. Too Amish.

[Marc Maron]

When do you start performing? Cause you seem like one of those people that performs that's performing all their life.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I'm on the road pretty much every weekend.

[Marc Maron]

No, but I mean, like, when you're a kid, when does it all happen?

[Sophie Buttle]

When I was a kid.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like, when do you start doing things? Where do you start realizing you're an entertainer?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, because both my parents are artists.

[Marc Maron]

They what kind of artists?

[Sophie Buttle]

My dad's a musician and my mom is a painter. So they both had me. My dad had me in music classes and my mom had me in.

[Marc Maron]

What kind of music classes does he do?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I played saxophone. Cause my dad played saxophone.

[Marc Maron]

So he's a jazz guy?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, he's jazz and punk rock.

[Marc Maron]

Punk rock sax player?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Not too many of those.

[Sophie Buttle]

Just Peter Buttle.

[Marc Maron]

Peter Buttle, Yeah. Did he put out some records?

[Sophie Buttle]

Pete Buttle? No. But he's been in lots of bands that has stuff out there. His big band in Montreal in the 90s was Hazy Azure.

[Marc Maron]

Hazy Asher.

[Sophie Buttle]

Hazy Azure.

[Marc Maron]

Hazy Azure, Yeah. Okay, so that was the punk band.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

So they had like a front man. And your dad had spiky hair.

[Sophie Buttle]

He has really long hair in a braid. Really long, kind of jazzy.

[Marc Maron]

And were they popular?

[Sophie Buttle]

I'm under the impression they were popular.

[Marc Maron]

But he also does some kind of laid back jazz, maybe as he gets older.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, he loves jazz. He's always loved jazz and he's always loved punk. Those are his two.

[Marc Maron]

So he's a music teacher?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, he taught. He did adult ed. He recently retired. But he taught adults. He taught inmates in a prison.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's nice.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, math and English. But he's a really. He's like huge. He's like 6 foot 7 and he's big and, you know, punk rock guy. So he's kind of uniquely suited to be able to go into the prisons.

[Marc Maron]

And feel comfortable to hold this space in prison.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you grew up with a lot of music in the house and your mom's a painter?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. So they both really always encouraged creative stuff. No oils and gouache.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Really beautiful paint.

[Marc Maron]

She paints things.

[Sophie Buttle]

She'll paint things. Right now she's really into bridges.

[Marc Maron]

Painting the bridges.

[Sophie Buttle]

Mm.

[Marc Maron]

And does she sell her paintings?

[Sophie Buttle]

So she's actually gonna do her first show this year. She took a big break from painting when she was raising me. Cause my parents were not together, so I was mostly with my mom.

[Marc Maron]

They're not.

[Sophie Buttle]

No.

[Marc Maron]

When did that happen?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think when I was conceived. I think that was it. I've never really gotten a clear answer on when they broke up. And to me that tells me.

[Marc Maron]

Do you have siblings?

[Sophie Buttle]

Nope.

[Marc Maron]

Just you?

[Sophie Buttle]

Just me.

[Marc Maron]

One accident. Your dad was out.

[Sophie Buttle]

Whoops. Yeah. And then he moved to Vancouver. We moved to Ottawa. So it was. It seemed like a pretty clean break.

[Marc Maron]

So I seen. I guess they don't talk.

[Sophie Buttle]

I don't think that they talk. Maybe. Maybe. Happy birthdays to Each other.

[Marc Maron]

But you did share time?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I did summers with my dad, rest of the year with my mom.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so really you just grew up with your mom?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, mostly.

[Marc Maron]

And that was in Ottawa?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So when do you start thinking like, you're gonna be a comedian and why?

[Sophie Buttle]

I always did a lot of writing. I liked to do writing. I'd write little stories and then my mom had me in doing kind of little child actor type things. So I never booked.

[Marc Maron]

But she drove you around auditions?

[Sophie Buttle]

Drove me around auditions. And so I, you know, I always sort of liked acting and I sort of liked writing. And then she took me to a comedy club when I was 14, and I started doing comedy shortly after that.

[Marc Maron]

At 14?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Were you like one of those freakish young acts that would show up at the Montreal Comedy Festival when you were like 14 or 15?

[Sophie Buttle]

Mm, mm. I was. First of all, I told. I had told everybody that I was 20 so that I could get into the clubs. And then I also had no success for like five years. I didn't do any festivals. Didn't even do a guest spot, I think, until I was like five years in.

[Marc Maron]

But were you like this, like this kind of like circus act in the way that, like, let's go watch the little girl do it?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I think they didn't know. I think I was. I was trying to be very adult. I had jokes about sex. I was not having sex yet, but I was at 14.

[Marc Maron]

That's good.

[Sophie Buttle]

I was trying to be. I was trying to be mature.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I'm glad that that whole tone is stuck with you this long.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, it was all I know how to do at this point. Now I am having sex.

[Marc Maron]

Thank God.

[Sophie Buttle]

Woo. Shout out to sex.

[Marc Maron]

You do talk about sex? What?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, sex and politics.

[Marc Maron]

Sex and politics?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What else is there?

[Sophie Buttle]

Food, religion. But. Oh, yeah, I don't really talk about religion.

[Marc Maron]

Did you grow up with religion?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, just vague Judaism.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You'd go to temple once a year.

[Sophie Buttle]

I don't remember ever going to temple, but we were all very actively Jewish. And definitely, you know, they. My grandpa was the one that was the most religious. And his Montreal grandpa, he was from England, but he lived in Ottawa. British Jew. British Jew, Yeah, I like British Jews. Yeah. He came over on a ship and joined the Canadian army to pay for medical school. And then he was a doc. Yeah, he was a surgeon.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, and then he died when I was like 12, which was very hard. Yeah, he was. We were very close and. But we were. It was a very Jewish. It was very Jewish.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's nice.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Grandma too.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yep. Yeah, well, Grandma converted to marry him.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. And then his parents died, never knowing that she was not a real Jew. Not a born Jew. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Sometimes the converts are more convincing.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, she's really taken to Judaism and suits her well.

[Marc Maron]

Is she around still?

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, yeah. Really around with it. Sharp.

[Marc Maron]

You got a grandparent alive?

[Sophie Buttle]

I have three grandparents alive. It was just my one grandpa alive. Jesus.

[Marc Maron]

How old are you?

[Sophie Buttle]

I am 30.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's nice.

[Sophie Buttle]

It is nice.

[Marc Maron]

So when does the depression start to consume you?

[Sophie Buttle]

At nighttime or, like, are you a depressive afternoon? I was kind of. I think things can set me in that path right now. I don't feel depressed because I got lots going on. I'm touring every weekend. I have this writing job. I'm working on my script. I have friends.

[Marc Maron]

So it's not like a chemical thing. It's more of an environmental thing.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Probably when you have nothing to do, you get sad.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. I was really depressed when I first decided I wanted to move to the States. And then I got a. I had a phone call with a lawyer to find out how much it would cost, and I thought I would never be able to afford it. And I was pretty depressed for months and months. And then I got the 22 minutes writing job and that allowed me. Yeah. And then that allowed me to pay to move.

[Marc Maron]

So you. You said you did comedy for five years and then it started to click.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what, you work in, like, Breslin's rooms? What are you doing?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I did Breslin's rooms. I moved to. So I did comedy in Ottawa for a couple years and then I moved to Vancouver when I was 18 and I started doing. I started doing much better in Vancouver and I started touring eventually and headlining.

[Marc Maron]

When they still had a club in Vancouver.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, the comedy mix.

[Marc Maron]

There's that. Oh, yeah. I kind of remember that place.

[Sophie Buttle]

It was a great club. It was the basement of a hotel.

[Marc Maron]

I remember that place was. That was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was that the. That's not the old Yuk Yaks, though. Was it an old Yuk Yuks?

[Sophie Buttle]

It might have been Yak Yuks before my time, but there is another Yak Yuks and it is neighborhood.

[Marc Maron]

But that one was right, like on like Burrard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like a very small backstage area and there was a curtain.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes, yes. Right behind. Yeah, it was great. And it didn't even. It closed before COVID because it was a spite closing because a woman, I don't know if she or her father owned the hotel, right. And her husband started this comedy club in the basement.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

And then they got divorced and she just shut down the comedy club. Yeah, that's.

[Marc Maron]

That's terrible.

[Sophie Buttle]

It was heartbreak. It was horrible because I was up.

[Marc Maron]

There for three months. It's hard to find, you know, good spots.

[Sophie Buttle]

Losing the comedy mix was really rough. And then during the pandemic, we lost the Yuk Yuks.

[Marc Maron]

There's one out in the burbs somewhere.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I'm doing that this weekend.

[Marc Maron]

What is that called?

[Sophie Buttle]

It's one of the House of Comedies, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, House of Comedies. That's. What's his name he owns. There's one in Edmonton and there's. Is that the same one?

[Sophie Buttle]

Rick?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Rick Bronson.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Have you done that one in Edmonton?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I did that one a couple weeks ago.

[Marc Maron]

In the Giant Mall?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, in the Giant Mall.

[Marc Maron]

And you stay at the weird hotel.

[Sophie Buttle]

And you stay at the horrible hotel.

[Marc Maron]

And in the hallway, I think, like, on my floor, there were, like, horses.

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, it was. That hotel was rough. There was a comedy condo that they don't have anymore. But, man. Man, that hotel is because you're like, Are you doing. Are you doing clubs or when you're trying new stuff?

[Marc Maron]

Sometimes, yeah, I do clubs. The ones I do. I'll do St. Louis helium to work out shit. I'll do Portland Helium to work out shit. I'll do Denver Comedy Works are in.

[Sophie Buttle]

Your theater hour now, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yes. I had to put it back together because it was like I Did you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Have to change it because of Trump?

[Marc Maron]

Well, no. I mean, we did all the Trump stuff once before, but now it seems more menacing. So I had to shift it specifically to fascism as opposed to this Trump guy. This is a fucking problem now. It's, like, pretty much across the board, straight up authoritarian times. So this is a different way to approach it.

[Sophie Buttle]

How do you feel about Trump's incoming presidency? Do you feel like it's going to be worse than last time?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yes, I do, definitely. I think that, you know, this is the end of our system, and, you know, I don't know what that means or how they'll continue to pound away at the edges of it to make it seem like it's still a functioning system. But I don't. I don't think that the system survives.

[Sophie Buttle]

This because he's not going to leave or for a different reason.

[Marc Maron]

Well, just because the tactics of the party have shifted into, you Know, straight up authoritarian tactics. You know, there are things that are sort of happening over time that, you know, they get reported as like, oh my God, you know, anybody who doesn't agree with Trump is being terrorized with death threats and, you know, and completely bullied into submission.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

With. With true terrorizing.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, so that's not a democracy.

[Sophie Buttle]

No.

[Marc Maron]

And there doesn't seem to be a functioning other side to it, even though it seems like there's plenty of us out there. I think my fear is that the cultural momentum, you know, that's coming up around the efficiency of propaganda through technology and also comedy, oddly, is shifting culture towards a more fascistic method.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. One of the things that really surprises me about that is I thought such a fundamental part of the Republican Party was advocating for free speech. And Trump seems to be completely against free speech. If it's criticism of him, well, him directly.

[Marc Maron]

But also the weird thing about the free speech anti woke business is that it's all pushback on whatever the 60s created for the world. You know, that there was, you know, that people. It just seemed that what Trump did, because of what you said was make tolerance a problem.

[Sophie Buttle]

A weakness.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Yeah, A weakness are also just a cultural problem. Right. So it's like, why do I have to entertain or put up with someone who's different than me if I think they're fundamentally, you know, freaks or wrong Liberals, gay, you know, immigrants, whatever.

[Sophie Buttle]

Jew, Jews.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but that, that's. Yeah, that's definitely out of the bag now. So all that stuff that they were fighting for free speech was the ability to. The ability to shut those people down.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

Without respect and without reprisal and without.

[Sophie Buttle]

Empathy, without any effort to connect on any level. Are.

[Marc Maron]

Empathy is out.

[Sophie Buttle]

Empathy is out. And we have that with, with Pierre Poliev in Canada. He's running on anti wokeness as well. And he's not using it so much with words like. He's not. He doesn't sound very harsh. He's pretty soft spoken. But he has, I've heard a bunch of times him. Him talk about being against the anti woke culture.

[Marc Maron]

Being against woke culture.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Yes. Pardon me. Being against woke culture. And there's a huge rise of right wing and far right wing leaders in Europe too. Winning elections.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, well, woke culture is basically social democracy. I mean, that's what it is. The language of equality, of big tent around marginalized people.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, that's how I think of it. I think of it as helping people that need more help.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And just evolving Your language and your behavior out of respect for your fellow citizens who might be different than you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. And I realize that I'm very liberal, I'm very progressive in everything except standup comedy. I do think that stand, like when I look at the comics that I like, everyone is kind of brash and, and has the right message but doesn't really speak in a woke way. And so I do prefer my politicians to speak in a woke way and to be sensitive to people. But I do think that the one part of the progressive box that I don't fit into is when it comes to standup.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I don't know if that's specifically true. Only in the sense that if your heart's in the right place and you're dirty, who cares? I mean, you're still not to fight for a point of view that is specifically enabling you to minimize or push back on vulnerable people. I mean, that's different than just being filthy or talking about fucking. I mean, you're not up there saying the N word.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no, not even in my own standup. I just mean in general, I do think that standups have a very unique position in society where you can speak, you can speak about things and you can be wrong. I think more than other people, we have the.

[Marc Maron]

Sometimes a lot of people take jokes as if you're some sort of pundit.

[Sophie Buttle]

No. You know, but that's the thing. That's why I think comics are so unique in society because we're much more free than politicians. We're much more free than like actors.

[Marc Maron]

But also if your heart's in the right place, there's a balance. And if you're taking certain risks as a standup in what you say, you can be decisive about it. And hopefully what you're trying to elucidate is something good, not shitty.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So like I don't necessarily think that has to be progressive or anything. It's just there is a freedom. Everyone can always say what they want to and you shouldn't not be able to say what you want to. But there is a way to do it where the audience is broad and you can still take risks. Because if you're just this anti woke hack now you're just playing for that world.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no, and I definitely am not talking about that. I just mean a certain freedom that lacks the tippy toe ness of.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah, you can push some buttons.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. I truly not at all with politicians, but with confidence. I like comics to push Some buttons.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But you know, you're pushing them because it's tantalizing and you can find an edge to it. You're not pushing buttons to the point where you're making people cry.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

And you know, sometimes, like, if people are easily triggered for whatever reason, they can just leave.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes. Nothing in the world is easier than not watching a certain standup comic that you don't like.

[Marc Maron]

Absolutely.

[Sophie Buttle]

If somebody's not your cup of tea, you are never gonna cross paths with. With that person.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I'll give you your money back.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, go ahead, enjoy it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, please leave. Yeah, no problem.

[Sophie Buttle]

Bye.

[Marc Maron]

So when, when you started working in. So you were headlining by the time you left?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah, I was headlining in Canada for many years, but obviously there's not a ton of cities in Canada, so you can only do so many rounds.

[Marc Maron]

And who are the other comics who like making the rounds?

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, there's a lot. There's. There's a great.

[Marc Maron]

Who are some of the old guys that you liked?

[Sophie Buttle]

My favorite is Graham Clark. He's Vancouver based.

[Marc Maron]

With his long beard now.

[Sophie Buttle]

With his long beard.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Looks like a rabbi.

[Marc Maron]

I remember when he wasn't an old guy. Oh, he's like a little younger than me.

[Sophie Buttle]

I don't think of him as an old guy.

[Marc Maron]

No. But like, there were some guys like, I'm big. I like Mike Wilmont.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, Mike Wilmont's great.

[Marc Maron]

You know, like that generation of guys who are a little older than me. Some of those Canadians were kind of interesting. There was another guy. I can never remember his name, but he had very long hair. And, you know, I think. Is it he just.

[Sophie Buttle]

And he was not Lachlan Patterson.

[Marc Maron]

No, he was like an older. He's like, he's probably my age, probably 50s, 60s. But he had very long hair and he kind of had a.

[Sophie Buttle]

Like, maybe Tim Nutt.

[Marc Maron]

Tim Nutt, Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Tim Nutt's so good. The other big one that I'm obsessed with is Erika Sigurdson, also phenomenal comic. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like Tim Nutt. Like, I remember seeing him. And you'd go up to Canada and be like, these guys just would stay here.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. I, I am always pushing for people to go to the States and there's, There's a real attitude that you're like a deserter if you become a touring headliner and then you go to the States. But I, I'm not doing any less Canada dates. Like, you can still do the four cities that you always go to just the rest of your weekends also. Are booked with American cities.

[Marc Maron]

You have a big following up there.

[Sophie Buttle]

Bigger than here, but not big.

[Marc Maron]

So you can just jump back and forth between which politics you talk about.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes, yes. I'm a real chameleon. Happy to do. Happy to be pro Trump. Just trying to have a good night. Just trying to keep everybody happy.

[Marc Maron]

No, but I mean, like, you know, you probably have a specific 10 minutes or 15 minutes about Canadian politics.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I have different. I do have some different chunks back and forth, but I do like explaining Canadian stuff to Americans. And then that material obviously works in Canada too, because.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

Candidate likes to hear about themselves and.

[Marc Maron]

How'd you. Wait, so you date a comic?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I date a comic. Mace Galone.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know that guy.

[Sophie Buttle]

He's great. He's from Canada too. We moved to the States at the same time.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, Canadian comic. How's he doing over here?

[Sophie Buttle]

He's doing great.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, he's in Seattle right now for gigs.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah? Where's he playing?

[Sophie Buttle]

The hereafter.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, I don't know what that is.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's good.

[Marc Maron]

Do you take him out and have him open for you?

[Sophie Buttle]

Absolutely, absolutely, I do. And then I really like to be like, by the way, that can. That the opening comedian is my boyfriend. If you're wondering how he got booked on this show.

[Marc Maron]

And then all the sex talk, they can now put a face to it.

[Sophie Buttle]

It's great. Yeah, there's a lot. A lot of. Inside me. Well, there's been often times that I've opened for him too. And then whoever goes second gets to really fact check the other person.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, have you had issues?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, no. We're very compatible.

[Marc Maron]

It's nice when you're both comics because over my life, you know, I've done jokes about sex and I've had girlfriends or wives be like, no, no, that one's a little personal.

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, really? Really.

[Marc Maron]

It's just not a lot.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, but once, because it's. Because it happens so rarely. Do you just say, okay, no worries, and then you don't do that anymore or do you fight?

[Marc Maron]

It depends. Sometimes I'll just, you know, I'll. I'll do the joke and I'll tell the audience. You can't say anything about that joke.

[Sophie Buttle]

You can't tell anybody. I did that because it's nobody.

[Marc Maron]

Nobody DM my wife or girlfriend.

[Sophie Buttle]

It's not going to be well received. This stays in this room.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I've definitely done that.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's so funny. That's so funny. No, we've never. I feel very Lucky to have him. We have never had any kind of problems like that. The only time we had an issue was I had a joke about getting cheated on that was about my ex that I was still doing in the present tense. You know, you get into the rhythm of a joke and it's hard to.

[Marc Maron]

Say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And then it also feels less interesting to talk about something that's like in.

[Marc Maron]

The past but now. Did you add like an addendum to it?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, you do the joke.

[Sophie Buttle]

I do the joke and I say that was my old boyfriend because he was concerned that people thought it was him.

[Marc Maron]

And he's coming on after you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. And so he doesn't want to get tomatoed.

[Marc Maron]

So they don't understand that there's no tension.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

How are they this able to deal with that? So now what's with the writing gigs?

[Sophie Buttle]

Writing gigs? It's good. I'm the head monologue writer for Taylor Tomlinson's show.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, who did I work with over there? I like that guy. Is it not Asif Ismail Ismael?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, he just, he just left the writer's room because he's working on a new show now.

[Marc Maron]

What's his name? Whole name? Ismail Lutifi, because I'd seen him once or twice at the Comedy Store. But when I did my appearance on there, I told Taylor to put me on again. She didn't seem to believe that I really wanted to, I don't think.

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, come back anytime. I'm not in the booking department, but I'll sneak you onto the lot. We can get you on.

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, I like doing it like, I like that she uses like all generations of comics.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, we have, we have actors too. Like Mandy Moore did our show.

[Marc Maron]

Did she? I think I saw that.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Pretty, isn't she?

[Marc Maron]

Shiny.

[Sophie Buttle]

She's so shiny, right? Yeah. Really special.

[Marc Maron]

So like as a monologue writer though, like, because I. It's weird because, like, I know a lot of these guys who write these jokes. So you're writing what, like 20 jokes a day? 30 based on news.

[Sophie Buttle]

Because it's. Because it's a mono. They also, they don't love when I talk about the show, like behind the scenes stuff publicly. They asked. I did it one time and they asked me nicely to not. So I'll.

[Marc Maron]

I'm just talking generally speaking, as a monologue writer.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[Marc Maron]

Well, your job is to generate jokes for her monologue.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yes, yes.

[Marc Maron]

Based on, you know, however she talks and what she likes to talk about and Whatever kind of things are happening. Social media or news or whatever.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot of jokes per day. And it's really been quite confidence building for me because it's shown me how much writing I'm capable of every day.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that was my question. Is that. Cause I used to see monologue writers and then you have your own act, which, like, a lot of times when you're performing standup, you're working out stuff that becomes a half hour. It becomes. Comes an hour.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you're used to churning out, you know, 20, 30 jokes a day, half of, you know, most of which don't get used. But does that. It doesn't seem like you can do that with your regular standup.

[Sophie Buttle]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Isn't. Isn't that weird?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I think. I think you're. You're less precious with it too. Like, standup is so. So about boiling stuff down and refining it and adding a new pause and finding a new end. And you're just. You're so precious with it. So definitely with a strict deadline, you just end up using whatever you've got.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And you're also writing for someone else's point of view.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So it's definitely never an issue of like, oh, I want to keep this for myself.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. And how do your folks feel about your success or your life?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think they're pleased.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Heard nothing. Nothing to.

[Marc Maron]

Were they supportive all the way through?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

But very supportive.

[Marc Maron]

And your dad likes your act?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, both my parents like my act. My dad's an edgy guy, you know, he's a punk rocker, you know, loves Carlin. He's into it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So he likes when you take it to the edge.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Loves the edgy joke. Yeah, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

So what are you thinking now that you're at wme? What is the. What's the big goal?

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, I've never put out an hour. Like, I've put out an album and I had a half hour in Canada a couple years ago, but I haven't done an hour special yet, so I'm working on that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. How would you do it? Would you do it YouTube or you want to get. You want to get.

[Sophie Buttle]

I'm happy to do it YouTube, if that's my best option.

[Marc Maron]

How's your YouTube channel? Pretty good?

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I do not post on YouTube at all. Are you active on YouTube? Do you do your own hosting? Do you have a social media person?

[Marc Maron]

No, I'm just. I have a. Yeah, Instagram and TikTok and like, I have people just posting old clips and stuff. Sometimes I'll do a new one. I just. I really don't want to have to care. And I think I'm actually getting to the age where I might not have to.

[Sophie Buttle]

I don't think you have to care. I think. Skip it.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's a fucking nightmare.

[Sophie Buttle]

It's a. It's a nightmare. It's bad for stand up. Like the, like clip. Clip culture. It's good in the way that you can grow your audience in a way that.

[Marc Maron]

Have you found that you've made it. It's made a difference for you.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah, I have. I have lots of followers on Instagram from. From posting clips, but that's from taping long sets and having years of jokes that were ready to post.

[Marc Maron]

So you're not doing crowd work clips?

[Sophie Buttle]

I'm not really a crowd work guy.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Sophie Buttle]

Are you?

[Marc Maron]

I can do it.

[Sophie Buttle]

Do you like to do it?

[Marc Maron]

It's just something you have to do sometimes to manage a situation.

[Sophie Buttle]

I'll interact with people if there's a. If there's an ordeal happening in the room. Of course. But yeah, I'm not asking, where are you from? What do you do?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So why do you think it's bad for stand up?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think that a lot of comics are writing jokes with clips in mind.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

And so keeping it. Keeping it really short.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

Having like the hook really clear at the beginning of the joke. Just things that I don't think are valuable to long form standup. And I think part of the beauty of standup is it's so long.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And you have so much time to like, in your hour to like, lay out. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Even my guy, when he clips up stuff, tightens things up, bits to put on clips. I'm like, it's like, you know, the tightness is really.

[Sophie Buttle]

It's the opposite of what I like about stand up. Like, I like the. I like the creating a real texture and vibe in the room and, you know, building some goodwill and then that's when you get to play around a little.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, but do you like. Do you think it's ruining it?

[Sophie Buttle]

I think it's bad for new comics. I think it's bad for comics that are starting and.

[Marc Maron]

Because that's the only way they think.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. But obviously it's fine for standups that already are established.

[Marc Maron]

So it's creating this weird quip culture. And then like, also it doesn't seem. And like, I never know if I'm an old guy, but it seems like I am. But I mean that there is a building process and a lot of these young comics, they're just dumping shit out in their first year.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. They get a clip of something and then they move on to the next joke where you can't really marinate. You can't really.

[Marc Maron]

I wonder how they do generally speaking.

[Sophie Buttle]

You know, in longer sets.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

I'm always curious about that, too. And that's one thing about LA is like, we all go around town and we see each other do short sets.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And nobody knows what's happening for other people on the road. Like, we all go on the road.

[Marc Maron]

Every weekend and do like an hour. Hour.

[Sophie Buttle]

No idea what other people are doing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, I love.

[Sophie Buttle]

I love watching my contemporaries hours. Like, whenever somebody's doing an hour in la, I love to go. Yeah, Because I'm so curious what everybody's hour looks like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because. Yeah. Because everything's short set here. Yeah, I know. Allie comes with me and, like, I'll just stay up there for like an hour and a half.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's so nice up and down. It's a full arc. Many arcs, much, you know. You know, up. You're just. I don't know what I'm doing in terms, like, it's just funny when you start working out material, get an hour, because you get more than that and you got like. That's the best possible thing is you got to trim it down. But, like, I was nervous because I'd been doing acting jobs and I was in Vancouver and I couldn't do a lot of standup. And my hour that I was running before I took the jobs was kind of on the shelf for a while. So literally, I felt a strange, you know, shaken confidence and like, you know, at a certain point, like, I've been doing this, what, four, 40 years, you kind of like, think, like, well, what the fuck is that about?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. It takes a couple weeks of not doing standup to really feel like, I have no idea how this is gonna go.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You gotta keep that, like, that relationship with an audience in place.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, yeah. Cause it takes a real comfortability on stage to do what you need to do to try the new stuff, to give it a chance.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. It came right back.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because I was in crisis.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So when I got up there on Friday, I just talked about a vacuum.

[Sophie Buttle]

Oh, that was your first set back?

[Marc Maron]

Well, it was. I hadn't done like an hour at a theater in a while, probably since I'D done some Largo stuff, but not since, like, I did the Vogue in Vancouver.

[Sophie Buttle]

I opened for you at Largo.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Working stuff out.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then I just start to lose everything because I don't listen to my fucking tapes.

[Sophie Buttle]

You record everything, obviously. No, me too. I record everything and then.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but do you do, like, most of the stuff happens in real time.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what sticks is just stuff that I remember or that I'm kind of passionate about. But I think I've lost a lot of stuff. I should go back over it.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, I feel the same way. Obviously, the stuff that really stands out or something gets a huge laugh or it's a better way to get into something that'll stick with you and that's kind of good because it ends up being just the most valuable things that you change that you remember. But, of course, I'm sure there's so many. Have you ever been to a New York comic? Like, have you ever lived in New York?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Sophie Buttle]

I think that New York comics are. Are they finished stuff so much faster because of how many sets they do in a night. They don't have to listen back to their sets because they did the set 20 minutes ago.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

And so I think the. The doing. Doing the six or seven sets in a night actually does. It does that. It does what we could do if we sat down and we listened to the setback, but it just. You lose the momentum from and the adrenaline and the excitement.

[Marc Maron]

There's these little bits and pieces, these little moments that I think I just love lose. How. How's your act now? Right now?

[Sophie Buttle]

I like my act.

[Marc Maron]

I.

[Sophie Buttle]

There. I have some filler chunks that are.

[Marc Maron]

What do you got, like, an hour?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah, I. I do over an hour, but it's. I have some of it I really hate that. I really consider to be filler material that I would love to replace before I record something.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah?

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like why? Because it's just old or you just. It's easy.

[Sophie Buttle]

It just doesn't. Doesn't feel good in my mouth.

[Marc Maron]

I know I have a bit that I know can't lose, and then I get bored with them.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the only time I feel down about standup is if I haven't done new stuff.

[Marc Maron]

I know that's. That's the other thing that was part of what was compounding the insecurity.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is that, like, if you're not going on stage constantly and stepping out out there and doing it. But that was what was good about Friday, because I just. I just riffed the first half hour. Oh, fun and like, you know.

[Sophie Buttle]

Well, you're a yapper as well.

[Marc Maron]

I'm a yapper?

[Sophie Buttle]

You love to yap.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Aren't you? Yeah, but it's a unique.

[Sophie Buttle]

It's not derogatory.

[Marc Maron]

No, it's unique. I mean, like, either you're a yapper or you're a joker, and I'm not. And I'm like, you know, every time, like somehow or another, I happen upon, like a very kind of standard joke structure. Joke. I get bored with it immediately.

[Sophie Buttle]

You had a really good one that. When I was opening for you at Largo, you had a joke about. About the cat on the expensive speaker.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that was good.

[Sophie Buttle]

Something like that. That was set at punchline that you were annoyed that you had a real, real one liner. But it was great. I remember that one.

[Marc Maron]

I wonder, did I. Have I done that on a special yet? Do I need to. You know, that's the one where, you know, we pull. Pull a cat off an expensive speaker and you're kind of feeling the weight. Like you're gonna throw it that one, but then you just drop it real hard and it's like, ew. And you're like, yeah, go fuck yourself. Yeah. Yeah. The cat jokes. People love them. I got a new cat joke that just kills harder than anything. And it's such a simple observation. It's almost annoying. And it makes me be like. It makes me think, like, why can't I just be. Do easier shit?

[Sophie Buttle]

I feel the same way. So I feel like all my sex jokes are my. Kind of sprinkled in. Everybody likes them. Keep the mood good. You know, I think that I have. I think. And I've had the same thought where I'm like, why can't I just do those? Because everybody would be so happy. Nobody would leave with, like, weird feelings. Nobody would feel conflicted about me because we're not aligned on something.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Sophie Buttle]

But I. I choose every single time to not do that. I choose intentionally to do jokes that make some people not like me as much.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I. Yeah, I. I have always been that way where, you know, you get. You get them and then you push. I used to do a joke about that, about how what I like to do with audiences is like, you know, pull you in, then push you away, then pull you in, push you away. It's a little dynamic. I call dad and I'll throw that in there. It's a little crowdy. That's like a little line that I use. But no, I do that Too.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. What is the mental illness associated with that? Is it like, is it that you don't really like me unless I've upset you at some point and then gotten you back? Because it's like the get back is the good feeling is when you, when you sort of, you could feel something.

[Marc Maron]

Wasn'T well, well, but sometimes those things are, you know, they're challenging. It's like you said about, you know, the, the, the freedom of, of thought and speech with stand up is that, you know, you're, you know, you're taking a risk and you know that some jokes that you're doing are specifically, you know, you know, they're going to challenge the audience. And there's no other reason to do it, is to see if you can get away with it. Yeah, but why risk their, their affection for you? Yeah, it's, I, I.

[Sophie Buttle]

And it's not, it's not lack of valuing the affection. I really need it, if anything. And so that's why it's so weird because if it would be one thing if I was some, like, yeah, I don't care if they like me or not. That's, that's. I came when I said what I have to say, but I don't feel like that. I really want people to like me and I want people to, to connect with me, but I still want moments in my act where I'm like, these people don't like me right now.

[Marc Maron]

I just, I don't know if I believe the love. You know, I don't know if I was ever gunning for the love. I think I was gunning for my own space.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. Just to be seen.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I think that, you know, over time when I start to know my audience, I start to resent them a little, like, sort of like, all right, you like me now. How about now?

[Sophie Buttle]

I've changed for the worse.

[Marc Maron]

You've seen the real me now. What are you gonna do? It's not, I don't think it's a great thing.

[Sophie Buttle]

No, It's a very interesting attitude to have.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I don't know how else to identify it. Like, usually when the jokes are off putting, I'm trying to work something out. Do you know what I mean?

[Sophie Buttle]

Of course, there's always a goal. It's not just to be upsetting.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like the other night I tried to talk about the nature of dehumanization and, you know, where we're at politically in terms of entertainment. And I tried to use as an example of what's Possible, even in the last, you know, century, is that, you know, you see all those pictures, you know, from the 30s and 40s of public lynchings from the south, and it looks like, you know, the whole town came out and they're. And they're like, you know, arm in arm, like, date night.

[Sophie Buttle]

That's crazy. That's a crazy premise. That's so funny. That's crazy that you said that to people. But I do. I know what you're doing. Like, I do get what you mean.

[Marc Maron]

The point is, like, you know, this isn't that far removed. This was like, you know, what are we doing tonight? Well, there's gonna be, let's say, well.

[Sophie Buttle]

Even on a very small, small degree, it's like we are gathering to watch humans suffer. That's what reality television is. You're watching these people cry and get in fights with each other and lose their partners.

[Marc Maron]

That's even a better. That's another way to do it. You know, just, you know, like, there's this reality show of just them going into, you know, illegal immigrants homes.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And putting them on, you know, you know, in. In vans.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. I mean, there's.

[Marc Maron]

I guess that's sort of Cops.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

But it's. It's true that we do. We do fly. I mean, the movies that we, like, have. They're always murdering women. And, like, we do gather to watch horrific things.

[Marc Maron]

So it was all put in place.

[Sophie Buttle]

And it is a big part of human nature, too, because I was learning that, like, Homo sapiens, the genre of human that we are, didn't win out over the other similar species because it was smarter. They won because they were more violent.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sophie Buttle]

And so we still have that in us. Like, the reason that we are the prevailing species on Earth is because we were the most violent and averaging out smart species.

[Marc Maron]

But we're dumb in that now that a lot of people want that violence enabled by a leader that will unleash them.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. I think we've solved it.

[Sophie Buttle]

Good for us.

[Marc Maron]

What a nice way to come to an end.

[Sophie Buttle]

Yeah. We solved society.

[Marc Maron]

Good talking. Iya.

[Sophie Buttle]

Thank you. Bye.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. There you go. That was Sophie Buttle. Great, right? Sweet, funny, but got a bit of an edge to her. Yeah. You can get her tour [e-mail] or on her Instagram page. Hang out for a second, folks. Hey, for full Marin listeners, we've got another collection of outtakes from recent episodes of wtf. We posted those on Tuesday, just like we do every month. Everything is so fragmented. Everything is so divided. Who are you playing to? What difference does it make? What do you. If you. Who are you if you're not trying to. To do crowd work videos? And I'm not complaining. Look, man, I am not begrudging, you know, any comic really. I mean, I think what I think old school stuff that, you know, crowd work is a tool one uses to manage a situation. Something you should have in the quiver. Is that what it's called in the toolbox? So you can deal, but it shouldn't be your whole point of view, shouldn't be your whole style. But who am I to say shouldn't should. For me, it's not got into an argument with some guy over this. Just the kind of hey man, everyone's people level playing field argument. It's just another form. But you know, there has to be criterion through which we judge things. And maybe I'm an idiot for thinking that stand up isn't necessarily always about laughs. God knows it's kept me sort of locked in as this weird boutique comic. I have my lane, you know, but it's not a lane that's backed up because of arena traffic. But whatever, whatever. I just can't. I mean, the way I look at crowd work comedy specifically, especially in the marketplace we're in, it's just sort of like personal one on one customer engagement to maximize your job performance in hopes that you can be employee of the hour on the Internet and then get up and do it again. Who wants to be employee of the hour? To get our monthly collection of outtakes and every other bonus episode, sign up for the full Marin. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here we go. Here's some guitar with the three chords that I enjoy. Fuck it. Sa sa sa sa sa Boomer lives monkey and La Fonda cat angels everywhere.