Episode 1622 - Don Johnson

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode: 1622 – Don Johnson
Release Date: March 3, 2025
Host: Marc Maron
Guest: Don Johnson

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Introduction and Oscars Commentary (00:00 - 18:45)

In the opening segments, Marc Maron shares his enthusiasm about the recent Oscars, particularly praising Conan O'Brien's performance as the host. Marc reminisces about his long-standing appreciation for the Oscars, highlighting his journey from a film-loving youth to his current sentiments. He commends Conan for bringing a fresh and warm presence to the ceremony, noting the classy production and effective use of audio-visual effects.

Notable Quote:

"Conan brought something fresh to it, and he made it very present. I'm not even sure how they did it, but some of it had to do with... a classy production." – Marc Maron [05:15]

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Introduction of Don Johnson and Personal Reflections (18:46 - 25:00)

Marc transitions to introduce Don Johnson, highlighting his extensive career from iconic roles in "Miami Vice" to recent projects like "Dr. Odyssey." He shares a personal anecdote about watching the Oscars with friends and family, expressing his emotional connection to the event despite feeling somewhat disconnected from the community.

Notable Quote:

"I feel like I'm more emotional about it now because I do talk to a lot of people." – Marc Maron [12:30]

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Don Johnson’s Early Life and Acting Career (25:01 - 43:38)

The conversation delves into Don Johnson's upbringing in Missouri and Kansas, discussing his parents' separation and his rebellious youth. Don recounts how a high school counselor, Dr. Karen Pyle, recognized his potential in acting, leading him to join a drama and speech class. This pivotal moment set him on the path to an acting career, eventually leading him to the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco during the late 1960s.

Notable Quote:

"She saw something in me that I didn't know that I really had." – Don Johnson [28:00]

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Experiences in San Francisco and Hollywood (43:39 - 58:35)

Don shares his vibrant experiences in San Francisco during the Summer of Love, interacting with notable figures like Andy Warhol and encountering legends such as Jimi Hendrix. He narrates his transition to Hollywood, the challenges of early acting roles, and his struggle with substance abuse during his twenties. Don emphasizes the importance of separating his personal identity from his iconic character, Sonny Crockett, to avoid typecasting.

Notable Quote:

"Fame is like a long illness. And eventually, you get over it." – Don Johnson [65:09]

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Meditation and Personal Growth (58:36 - 72:29)

The discussion shifts to Don's long-term meditation practice and its role in managing stress and maintaining mental health. Both Marc and Don explore Buddhist philosophies, emphasizing the elimination of suffering and the importance of empathy. Don reflects on his journey towards self-acceptance and the influence of his upbringing on his understanding of love and relationships.

Notable Quote:

"Acceptance and surrender." – Don Johnson [72:28]

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Family Life and Relationships (72:30 - 76:41)

Don opens up about his family, detailing his relationships with his children and ex-wife, Melanie. He speaks fondly of his daughters and sons, highlighting their unique personalities and achievements. Don also shares his experiences with former friends like Hunter Thompson, illustrating the deep bonds formed through shared experiences in the entertainment industry.

Notable Quote:

"My daughters are men. I want them on my side if there's something serious going down." – Don Johnson [32:16]

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Navigating Fame and Public Perception (76:42 - End)

Towards the end of the episode, Don and Marc discuss the challenges of fame, including managing public perception and maintaining genuine relationships. Don emphasizes the importance of being authentic and accessible, rejecting the isolation that often accompanies celebrity status. They conclude with reflections on personal growth, resilience, and the ongoing journey toward self-improvement.

Notable Quote:

"You're just carrying the narrative. They haven't thought of you one second." – Don Johnson [71:56]

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Conclusion

Marc wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of authentic conversations and meaningful connections, both on and off the podcast. He references a memorable past episode with Eddie Murphy, underscoring the value of candid and humorous interactions.

Notable Quote:

"That was one for the ages." – Marc Maron [79:15]

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Key Takeaways:

• Impact of Early Mentorship: Don Johnson credits his high school counselor, Dr. Karen Pyle, for recognizing and nurturing his acting talent, setting the foundation for his successful career.

• Navigating Fame: Don discusses the importance of separating personal identity from public personas to avoid typecasting and maintain mental well-being.

• Personal Growth through Meditation: Both Marc and Don highlight meditation and Buddhist philosophies as crucial tools for managing stress, fostering empathy, and achieving personal growth.

• Authentic Relationships: The episode underscores the significance of genuine connections and authenticity in both personal life and the entertainment industry.

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Recommended Listening:

For those interested in Don Johnson's insights on acting, fame, and personal growth, this episode provides a candid and in-depth conversation that spans decades of his illustrious career.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductions, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Marc Maron and Don Johnson.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Hey folks, I need your questions. I'm getting ready for another Ask Mark Anything bonus episode on the full Marin, so fire away. Just click on the link in the episode description and send me a question. Then subscribe to the full Marin so you can get every Ask Mark Anything bonus episode. All right, let's do the show. Hey, folks, this episode is sponsored by Squarespace and we go back with Squarespace for more than a decade. But one thing that's great about Squarespace is it's ready for today's needs so you can create your best online presence and keep up with the latest technology. Design Intelligence is one of Squarespace's newest features, combining two decades of industry leading design expertise with cutting edge AI technology to help you build a beautiful, more personalized website. Head to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial and when you're ready to get started, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? Nicks, what's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Wtf. Welcome to it. What is going on? I gotta be honest with you. I'm just gonna go straight into it. We don't do this every year because it gets late for me to get this to Brendan before. It's very late there. I'm on the west coast, he's on the east coast. But I did just watch the Oscars. I watched him because if you've been listening to this show for many years, you know that I love them. I grew up excited about the Oscars. I was kind of a film nerdy kid and I just like seeing the movie stars. I like seeing the movies that were nominated for Oscars. When I was in high school, I liked talking about the movies with my buddy Devin, who, him and I were kind of heady, or we thought we were anyways, for high school students and on through college. But the Oscars have a big place in my heart and I've gone up and down with the Oscars over the years. But let me tell you something, this year's Oscars, my pal Conan O'Brien hosted this thing. I didn't know how it was going to go. I never know what to expect. It doesn't seem to be a job that people really want to do anymore. But God damn it, if he didn't just nail the fuck out of it. He was so good. He was so good. I can't even explain it. I'm excited. I had watched him. He came on my show at Largo last week to run some of the jokes. I remember asking if he was going to do a musical number. He's like, no, I'm just going do the jokes and bring people up. But he was underplaying it because that crew, that staff, his people, they really got him loaded up with good jokes. He was on confident and focused and just on fire and really kind of was warm. And it was. It was really one of the best Oscars I've seen in a long time. And I'm a big Kimmel fan as the host of that show, and I always liked the way he kind of underplayed things. But Conan brought something back to it, and he brought something fresh to it, and he made it very present. I'm not even sure how they did it, but some of it had to do with. It was a classy production. I mean, the set was just stunning. It just. It wasn't schmaltzy. It wasn't chintzy. There was not a lot of set pieces. There was a lot of audio, visual effects, and they just nailed it. It had this deco framework, and they had the. The orchestra up behind the stage where you could kind of see it at times in the middle of the screen. It was really. It was a great night of entertainment and honors. I. I don't know. Listen to me. I'm fucking like. I'm like. I'm going crazy here. Let me talk about today's show. Today, Don Johnson, Hollywood veteran guy who's been around a long time, is on the show. You know him from Miami Vice and movies like Tin Cup, Django, Unchained, Knives Out, Rebel Ridge. He's in the ABC series Dr. Odyssey, which is starting its second season this week. So, yeah, I was excited to. To watch the Oscars last night. I. I was. I was in New Mexico, and I'd gone out to see my dad and hang out with him. And then I went over to my friend Dave's house and with his girlfriend Sherilyn, and we watched him on the big screen. And I don't know, I get emotionally moved by the fucking Oscars. I don't know if I feel like it's part of my community now, but I feel like I'm more emotional about it now because I do talk to a lot of people. I wouldn't say I'm in rotation or anything. I wasn't there. But I'm always Curious to see how people handle that job. And he just fucking did a great job. And some of my picks. I was thrilled that Honora won the Best Picture Oscar. That was what I wanted to win. I don't. I wanted it to win because I think it's. It does everything it's supposed to do. It's a really great year for indie films this year. I mean, especially In Nora. But the Brutalist too. I. What my. My picks were really. What were they? I wanted Dinora to be Best Picture. I wanted Brady Courbet to win Best Director. I was kind of thinking that Adrian Brody was going to win, but I kind of wanted Ralph Fiennes to win. I wanted Demi to win. But it's. It's perfectly great that Mikey Madison won. I mean, just how exciting where things. You don't know what's gonna happen. And the movies are all pretty fucking good. And there are surprises. I know that I've gotta see Emilia Perez. I've gotta see the Brazilian film that. What is it? I'm still here. I think that I can accept that. Best Cinematography went to the Brutalist. I'm sorry Brady didn't win, but I think that it got some respect and the respect it deserved, actually, because Adrian won. But the cinematography was pretty fucking amazing. And Sean Baker won Best Director, Best Editor, Best Original Screenplay. And then Best Picture. That's fucking outstanding independent movie made for $6 million. I don't know. And the comedy was good. It wasn't overwrought. There were only a couple really wacky bits. The opening bit was good. Everybody was dressed nice. But that set and that orchestra and Conan just keeping it going. I don't know. And also just the vibe, you know, LA coming out of the fires, you know, show business in general being culturally marginized by monsters. There was no attention paid to the president or to politics, except in a very specific way. When a movie that was a documentary made by a group of Palestinians and Israelis about what's going on there. And they said their piece, which was righteous. And it's just a beautiful thing to have show business and the artists that revolve around film in all elements, not politicizing themselves by taking shots so they could have a night of their own. And also kind of celebrate the community and what it means to put art in the world and the power of it. Adrian Brody said some beautiful stuff about that and about marginalization and about antisemitism and pushing back on hate. They had the firefighters come out and they'd written a few jokes for them. That was pretty funny. So there was the kind of LA community represented, and there was the. The sort of entertainment industry represented and the idea of art having purpose and facilitating some sort of change or at least some sort of salve to hopelessness and bringing people together. I thought it was great. I thought it was great. And I'm very proud of my buddy Conan. We're not that close, but they. But, you know, I know him a long time, but I didn't know how he would do. And he really. He did well. I got choked up a lot during the thing. Just when people win and they don't expect to win. And God damn it, I love that movie Anora, and I love that movie the Brutalist. And they did all right. They did all right. I think Anora was one of the most surprising, entertaining, heartfelt things I'd seen in a long time. Another thing I want to mention is that when Ben Stiller showed up, all I was hoping was that he was going to do a comedy piece. Because despite whatever seriousness he aspires to and achieves, Ben Stiller doing physical comedy is one of the greatest things ever in terms of comedy. Ben Stiller is one of the great physical comedians, and he did a bit and it was great. No one has better physical timing than that fucking guy. So that was a treat. I'll be in Oklahoma City at the Tower Theater this Thursday, folks. That's March 6th. I'll be in Dallas on Friday, March 7th, at the Majestic Theater. I'll be in Houston at the White Oak Music Hall, Saturday, March 8, and San Antonio at the Empire Theater on Sunday, March 9, before I head to south by Southwest that week. Durham, North Carolina. I'm at the Carolina Theater of Durham on Friday, March 21. I'll be in Charlotte, North Carolina, at the Knight Theater on Saturday, March 22, in Charleston, South Carolina, at the Charleston Music hall on Sunday, March 23. Then I'm coming to Illinois, Michigan, Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire and New York City for my special taping. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all of the dates and links and again, get the links from there. So it doesn't. You're not going to a scalper site. And I don't. I don't mean to say this over and over again like people are stupid. And I'm not saying they're stupid, but you can't just Google Marc Maron tickets and get to the right place. So go to wtfpod.com tour to get the. To get the stuff that you need. Speaking of movies, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I went back and I watched Brady Courbet's first film called Childhood of a Leader. And it might be better than the Brutalist. You should see it. I feel like I already told you to do this. But he's a real. A real fucking poet. And he's got a real interesting sensibility. Outside of that, I just want to say that my maternal lineage goes all the way back into the Ukraine, into Galicia, which apparently when my great, great, great grandfather was there, it was an oil boom town. And I'd like to think that my great great great grandfather, maybe even one more great, was working those wells, a Jewish roughneck. And I say this because I stand with Ukraine, politically and genetically, genetically Ukrainian, at least a quarter. And then the other part was close, it was Poland. And then there's some other stuff, Russia, but, you know, the full Ashkenaz spectrum. So, like I said, I've been out here in New Mexico and I was visiting my dad for a few days, or just a day. I spent a day with him and he's still hanging in there. He had a good day with me. We spent a couple hours together. A few hours. He was present and talking. Can't remember what he had for breakfast. But he knows about me, knows about my life. He knows about his life. And his wife Rosie was there. And it's interesting because she has a huge family. Huge. And it strikes me that as a person who doesn't have kids and is relatively disconnected from my extended family, when that's the situation, like I just have a lot less unfolding and seemingly never ending drama in my life. And that seems to be the excitement of some part of the excitement of family and connection. There's always someone to talk about who you love or who you kind of have to accept or not accept, but they're part of your family, for better or for worse. And it just. It's just when I'm around Rosie, she's always talking about this family. And I don't know if I miss it, but I don't have that, that, that. That big connection of constantly being able to. To, you know, who's dying, who's not dying, who's in trouble, who's out of favor, who's got sick, who won an award, whose kid is dancing. It's just like I don't have that. And in the absence of that, it's just really the daily garbage churn of the manifestations of my own insecurities, shame, panic and despair. The four horsemen of my personal apocalypse. And then I just throw in that other trash that comes into my brain. Just throw that into the hopper and see what I come up with. Look, don't. I know. Listen, I'm tired of me too. Believe me, all right? Believe me. But I'm okay today because, well, lately I've been taking, like every opportunity that I can to just be among other people, Just be in real life. Just being like. I went out and I mentioned this before, me and Jerry went out to Cantor's the other night just to be around people in a crowded restaurant who were just, you know, just eating. You know, some of them alone, some of them not alone. Just being around humanity. I was just online at a coffee shop here in Albuquerque and some guy complimented my sunglasses. And the next thing I know, we're just sitting. We're just standing there in line, talking about his tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, his family, his trips to Venice that he had taken, his Italian roots, his New York roots. We talked about my boots for a while. And that happened in five minutes. People like to talk to people. And even if it's just small talk in a way, it's actually better when it's casual and loose and not driven by ideology and politics. Because that's when you're listening to a self editing recording device and the person's humanity fades into the machine or disappears. But there's some craving I have, and I think it's worth continuing to talk about to get out in the fucking world. I mean, just be out in the world among people. It feels important. And I know it seems small, but it just feels important. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. I bet you know someone who seems like they have it all together. Maybe you admire that person, or maybe you wish you could be as collected as they are. But. But here's the secret. That person didn't do it alone. Everyone relies on a support system of some kind. And the best support systems are the ones that know your needs and can give you the right assistance at the right time. Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all to knowing that things are better when we ask for help. Throughout my life, I've used therapy as part of my support system. And when you have the right therapist, it helps to keep your whole support system working properly. So if you want to get started with a therapist, you can do it right now with better help. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com WTF to get 10% off your first month? That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com WTF all right, yeah, I'm going to go to, I'm actually going to see a shrink in a couple of weeks. I want to be evaluated. I need an evaluation. I don't necessarily know what I'm going to do with that evaluation, but I need it because I'm realizing that my propensity to think catastrophically and generate massive amounts of dread and anxiety for myself has been with me for a long time. And now that, you know, things are overwhelming in many ways and I'm getting older, it gets almost unbearable, to be honest with you. You know, it's just every day, every day, the arc of feelings from, you know, self righteous anger to suicidal ideation, I get that's a limited range. I understand that. That's the dark spectrum. On the light spectrum I have fleeting blurts of mania to exhausted peace of mind. But there's, there's got to be some midway. There's got to be some midway. I've got to be able to manage things a little better and it's been a little bad lately. So I'm going to, I'm going to go get a little help. I'm going to go get a little help. All right, I'm just telling you that so, you know, that's what I'm going to do. Okay, look, Don Johnson, Don Johnson is an interesting character because everybody knows who Don Johnson is and he's been in la. He's been around this business for a long time, for a lot of generations. He's got a lot of stories. The Season 2 premiere of Doctor Odyssey is this Thursday, March 6th at 9pm 8 Central on ABC. You can also stream episodes on Hulu. But when I got the opportunity to talk to Don Johnson. How am I not going to talk to Don Johnson? Right here's me and Don Johnson. Look, dude. So you like plants?

[Don Johnson]

I like everything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but you were looking up plants.

[Don Johnson]

When I don't, when I don't recognize something that. And I. My father knew every tree in the forest.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Don Johnson]

Every tree in the forest? Yeah, that was his thing.

[Marc Maron]

One of them.

[Don Johnson]

Well, one of them. One of the many things. But I kind of feel like that I'm getting to know the place where I live finally. Yeah, finally.

[Marc Maron]

You have a little time.

[Don Johnson]

Not much time. But where do you live? Here I have. Up near Santa Barbara.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah. I'm heading up there on Thursday. Santa Barbara. Wilburo Theater.

[Don Johnson]

Oh yeah, I'm gonna do a little show. Are you?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna go.

[Don Johnson]

You're gonna play some music?

[Marc Maron]

No, I'm a comic.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, you're a comic.

[Marc Maron]

I'm gonna speak to. To my frightened fans and try to make them feel better about the state of the world in my dark way. So, so you just, you're just now kind of like. Is something settling down in your mind that enables you to start to enjoy life or look at where you live?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I practice meditation.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I'm a long time practitioner.

[Marc Maron]

Really the of the original like TM kind of deal.

[Don Johnson]

No, well that's not the original, but we'll forgive you.

[Marc Maron]

Let me rephrase it. The original new age Hollywood one.

[Don Johnson]

No, no, old school. Me and Buddha, we're just like that.

[Marc Maron]

Oh yeah, yeah. No, I like the whole Buddhist idea. It seems to make sense to me.

[Don Johnson]

Philosophy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Just, you know, accept the big nothing.

[Don Johnson]

A big. It's a way of living to eliminate suffering.

[Marc Maron]

Now how long you've been practicing that?

[Don Johnson]

I don't know, 30, 40 years. I just sit and meditate.

[Marc Maron]

20 minutes?

[Don Johnson]

No, no, sometimes longer.

[Marc Maron]

Can you get there?

[Don Johnson]

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And is it great? Because I try and then at some.

[Don Johnson]

Point I go like fuck, try it again.

[Marc Maron]

That's all it takes?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Just invest the time.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. I mean you can do that. You can invest the time in that or you can just go ahead and manage distraction and suffering.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well that's.

[Don Johnson]

Which is what we all do anyway.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that seems to be my creative outlet. Oh well, managing distress and suffering is my job.

[Don Johnson]

You can. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's true.

[Don Johnson]

It's just, you know, the whole idea is to not particularly identify with thought.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like I can do it. I tried during the pandemic. I feel like I can turn it off.

[Don Johnson]

Anybody can.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I feel like I'm good at that.

[Don Johnson]

All it takes is a little practice and before you know it, before you know it, you start seeing things that used to be an irritation or an annoyance to you fall away and. And you go, that's weird. I didn't do anything other than not doing anything. And you learn things about yourself. It's meditation and then we're going to get off. This is an observation of the mind, the nature of the mind. And ultimately it's the study of what was the mind like before we became identified with thought and then started internalizing that.

[Marc Maron]

Right, right. Right.

[Don Johnson]

As being real.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And that's what kind of.

[Don Johnson]

And that's not real. It's a construct.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So you get past the construct, get a little peace of mind, and then you're able to.

[Don Johnson]

Freedom.

[Marc Maron]

Freedom.

[Don Johnson]

Real.

[Marc Maron]

And it lasts you.

[Don Johnson]

Freedom.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And it lasts all day.

[Don Johnson]

And it lasts all day. And through any administration.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Just rise above. Get rid of the ego.

[Don Johnson]

They're all just asleep.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

They're all just in a narrative playing out this stupid astronomer.

[Marc Maron]

It's a very aggravated, angry sleep that they're in.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I don't know who said it, but somebody said, americans get the democracy that they deserve. And so.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so we all. This too shall pass.

[Don Johnson]

As we said, this too shall pass.

[Marc Maron]

So am I wrong in assuming that that acting saved your life?

[Don Johnson]

Well, if you meant. If you mean, did it give me something to do because I wasn't qualified for anything else?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, you're pretty young, right?

[Don Johnson]

I started very young. I started in middle school and realized that I had a gift.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And. But I didn't really pay much attention to it. And then I met these two ladies when I was. My last year in high school, I'd left home. I went to the Wichita High School south in Kansas.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And in order. I wanted to play football. That was not in the cards because I kept falling asleep in my business class. And so she threw me out and I went to the counselor. Fabulous woman, flaming red hair. Her name was Lorena Stone.

[Marc Maron]

Changed her life.

[Don Johnson]

Change changed my life.

[Marc Maron]

Isn't weird. It's one person.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. She sent me to a drama and speech class so I could graduate. So.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I went, no, no, no, no, no. There's got to be something else. Woodworking.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know, Dunderhead101. That's what I'm qualified. Sure. And she sent me to this speech and drama class, and I went to the. She says, if you can get in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

So I went. I said, if I can get in. Speech and drama. I mean, isn't that for dunderheads? Real dunderheads. I mean. So I went to the door. I knocked on the door, and this dame came to the door, and her name was Dr. Karen Pyle. And she had her arm on the door and she was firm, and there was no way I was getting through that door. She. I said, you know, I was sent down. And she said, yeah, I know. I never got another word. And she says, can you sing? I said, yeah. She says, can you dance? I said, well, yeah, sure.

[Marc Maron]

I'll Dance right now.

[Don Johnson]

Let me in with a question. What do you want? What do you want the monkey to do? I can do it.

[Marc Maron]

Just let me in. I gotta get out of this school.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. So she accepted. Oh. She said, come back for the auditions at 4 o'clock and audition for west side Story, which I did. And I got the lead role. Yeah. Side Story, where I sang and danced and. And she saw something in me that I didn't know that I. That I really had. Legit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And she started. She took me into the class.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

She started making me read Moliere and Shakespeare. Nobody else.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

In the class. Moliere, Shakespeare, Ben Johnson, Tennessee Williams, Jean Genet.

[Marc Maron]

The canon. The classics.

[Don Johnson]

The classics, yeah. And she just. And I kept going. I don't know what this means. I'm from the South. I got a accent. Did you just. Oh, man. She kept. She'd throw those books at me and throw. Throw at me diction exercises and. So she got rid of your accent in a year.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. And by the. By the spring, she took me to the University of Kansas to audition for the summer rep preparatory program, which I did.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And. And I. I was one of eight students chosen out of the entire Midwest area to participate. I mean, talking about Minnesota, Wisconsin, Chicago, everywhere.

[Marc Maron]

Big people. I mean, I like a lot of talent out there.

[Don Johnson]

Chicago, that's a trip. Yeah, that's a road trip, man.

[Marc Maron]

I'm getting out. But you were never at a point where. Because it feels like. I don't know why I associate, you know, growing up in. In Kansas as. And I don't know what your particular family situation was, but I. For some reason I sense like it's either going to be shit jobs in prison or fucking.

[Don Johnson]

Acting. Fucking and acting?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, fucking and acting.

[Don Johnson]

That's. That seems. That seemed like the right. You're given the choice. Prison or an active. Oh, okay. I mean, I. I hear you do the same sort of thing in prison, but not.

[Marc Maron]

You don't have much choice.

[Don Johnson]

You don't have a lot of choice in the matter. I. I kind of like choices.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but what it did. So did you outside your dad liking birds, what was. What was growing up in Kansas like?

[Don Johnson]

I grew up in Missouri. Oh, okay. And Kansas, Yeah. I graduated from Wichita High School south in Kansas.

[Marc Maron]

But your folks, they, they.

[Don Johnson]

My folks separated when I was young and my father lived in Missouri, my mother lived in Kansas. And so you ended up with your dad? I ended up with my dad by order of the court.

[Marc Maron]

See.

[Don Johnson]

And what'd you do? They knew what was up?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. What'd you do? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Don Johnson]

Doesn't matter.

[Marc Maron]

Kid stuff.

[Don Johnson]

I probably lied about what the reason was anyway in the first place. I probably made it up so.

[Marc Maron]

But they were, they weren't together. But.

[Don Johnson]

No. And my. You know, and in, in my. On my mom's defense. Yeah. There was no way that she was going to handle me and. And my father had a rough time handling me. I was a wild child. What can I tell you?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Just like you guy.

[Don Johnson]

Well, I left home when I was 16.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And engineered my graduation from high school and then got a scholarship to the University of Kansas.

[Marc Maron]

Are your parents around?

[Don Johnson]

No, no, they've both passed.

[Marc Maron]

And were they around long enough to see your success?

[Don Johnson]

My mother was for a brief stint but she got the idea. She was the one that knew that I was going to do this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

She knew it way back when I was 12.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Or maybe younger than that. And my father got to see the full, the full boat and he was so proud. We. We had a rough beginning, my, my father and I and in my childhood.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Don Johnson]

Well, he was. You know, you learn how to parent by looking at your parents and he grew up in a depression era baby.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And there was no time to read self help books even if you had them in Missouri, in anywhere but.

[Marc Maron]

But that's where he grew up.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. His parents raised him like their parents raised them which is, you know, spare the rod, spoil the child. Oh yeah. And religious. Both of my grandfathers were preachers.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Don Johnson]

And.

[Marc Maron]

Did you know him?

[Don Johnson]

Oh, very well. Yeah, I used to. I knew my great grandfather. Really? Yeah. It was my job when I was little to go with him through in the woods and make sure he didn't get lost. He wasn't going to get lost. I might have gotten lost. But he knew where every living thing. Thing was in the entire property so he another guy and he taught me where everything was.

[Marc Maron]

Now did you, did you see him preach?

[Don Johnson]

I saw both my grandfathers preach.

[Marc Maron]

Were they like Baptist or what was it?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So full on performance.

[Don Johnson]

Oh yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh that must.

[Don Johnson]

People crying and coming up and testifying.

[Marc Maron]

Tents or church?

[Don Johnson]

Well, my, my. My aunt, my mother's sister was. Was a. A revival tent person. She's big. She came out here, her name was Clima Bowling.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's quite a racket that religious racket.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I know. I can't figure out how I missed it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know, you're right.

[Don Johnson]

I went for the short money.

[Marc Maron]

You had a shot.

[Don Johnson]

You Had a shot. I had it right there in front of me to kind of audit.

[Marc Maron]

You had mentors. It was built in.

[Don Johnson]

Right there in front of me. It's not too late.

[Marc Maron]

No, you can always preach.

[Don Johnson]

It's not too late. Too late. That's one of those I got to say now.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. It'd be an interesting sermon. Probably different than what your grandparents did.

[Don Johnson]

Way different.

[Marc Maron]

So you used to go see him.

[Don Johnson]

I'll tell you what, mine wouldn't be.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

It wouldn't be based in fear.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Yeah. Exploiting people's fears. Yeah. Yeah. No, you'd be. It'd be some sort of.

[Don Johnson]

It's not much difference between newscasters and preachers. Sure. Both in the fear of it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Instill the panic.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And provide a guiding hand.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To write to hell.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So you. So you do the conservatory thing now. Was that challenging?

[Don Johnson]

Were you American Conservatory Theater?

[Marc Maron]

Well, no, when you went to. After high school and she got you.

[Don Johnson]

Into that program in University of Kansas. Yeah, well, you know, I got. I got shown the ropes by a. By a junior girl.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

And she took good care. Listen, let's just.

[Marc Maron]

A lot of girls in your life.

[Don Johnson]

Let'S just declare this right away.

[Marc Maron]

Right away.

[Don Johnson]

Anything I know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Everything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I've learned from women.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Not a single useful thing from men.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Except how not to behave like a. Like a meathead.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I. That's not true, but I'm just putting an exclamation on the point of. Of how much. How focused and how much aware. More aware women are than men.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

In every. They start out that way and they stay that way. I've got two daughters.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I got four sons. And I love them all deeply. But my daughters are men. I want. If there's a. If there's something serious going down, I want them on my side.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Anything. Anything serious. Well, your daughter Dakota is a brilliant actress.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, she is unbelievable. Yeah, she's pretty good.

[Marc Maron]

I mean. I mean, you must watch her and just be like, oh, my God, she can really do it, dude.

[Don Johnson]

Well, I had that feeling the first time, and then I kind of. Then I got more in the mode of. Well, that's a choice I wouldn't have made. Oh, yeah, she pulled it up.

[Marc Maron]

Proud dad to just another actor watching.

[Don Johnson]

You know how comics watch other comics. Yeah, of course.

[Marc Maron]

You know, it's never good.

[Don Johnson]

That's funny.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's funny, right?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, that's funny. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. Not so good. I do a bit like that.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

She got that from Me. But so. So, okay, so you do that program and you come out to LA like you did, you feel confident. I mean, you'd done a bunch of theater.

[Don Johnson]

What did you do up there at the American Conservatory Theater or.

[Marc Maron]

No, at. In Kansas.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I did theater and repertory and then I studied regular. Regular school and stuff like that.

[Marc Maron]

But you feel like you got a craft in place. You feel like that. You know, whatever you're.

[Don Johnson]

That happened at the American Conservatory Theater.

[Marc Maron]

Where was that?

[Don Johnson]

Here in San Francisco.

[Marc Maron]

So you go from there.

[Don Johnson]

I got hired out of there to join the professional company.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. In San Francisco. What year was that?

[Don Johnson]

68.

[Marc Maron]

So it must have been crazy.

[Don Johnson]

It was fantastic. I was 18 years old on the heels of the Summer of Love and San Francisco, and I'm the only straight guy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but they were waiting for you.

[Don Johnson]

It seems like they sent out of an invitation for one.

[Marc Maron]

Well, so that was before the 60s got weird and bad. So it was just hippies and fun, huh?

[Don Johnson]

Well, it was on the cusp of getting bad. Yeah. By 69, it was pretty boarded up and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know, and. Yeah, I should have gotten the hint then because, you know, that's my generation right there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And then I went on to see my generation completely screw up the whole world.

[Marc Maron]

Still doing it.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, still doing it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I can't let go. I can't tell you how. How disappointed and how all those conversations about freedom and peace and. And, you know, can't. Became the same people became the. The people that are denying your insurance claims and the people that are coming up with culture wars. The people that wanted freedom the most. And I put my faith in them. And I can't tell you how hurt and disappointed I am in your generation. The folks in my generation.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I guess it was, you know, at the end of the day, it was all pretty selfish.

[Don Johnson]

Not all of them.

[Marc Maron]

No, I get it.

[Don Johnson]

You know, there's some very wise people and thank God that they. That there are. And they. And they keep us down the road. But, you know, clearly we're going through an identity crisis time. And I think this will. This will pass and will be. You know, America is an interesting place. It wants to experiment, even at its own detriment.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Don Johnson]

But that's okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, it's. The loophole in democracy is that you can free, freely, elect a fascist.

[Don Johnson]

Well. And also, you know, it kind of mimics who we are as people. Honest to God.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, making these decisions and stuff like that. I mean, we, as people, we put ourselves into Positions where we are the Antichrist, you know, for a moment.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

When we're yelling at our beloved, or when we're. When we're making an irrational decision about something. So we're all capable of it. It's just. It's an outward manifestation of what we're all capable of constructing.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. So when you were in San Francisco, were you. Were you hanging out with. With heady people? I mean, were you, like. What was it?

[Don Johnson]

I used to walk by Jerry Garcia's place over in the hay on the Hate.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And he'd be sitting on the stoop playing and really picking and stuff. Oh, yeah. And it was very much like that in that. At that time, during the. The 60s, because everybody was hanging with everybody.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

It wasn't. You know, it hadn't become our generations. You know, backstage passes.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

You know, and stuff like that. It was coming, man. We're all going to play music. Come on.

[Marc Maron]

Right. You know, you're at the origin of it.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Light up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know, hang out, hang out.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Drop some acid.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. How was it?

[Don Johnson]

Let's get to know the original. Another.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, the original Purple Osley, baby. Yeah. How was that?

[Don Johnson]

Good.

[Marc Maron]

How long did it last? Like, once. You like.

[Don Johnson]

Well, that was a pretty interesting thing because the first time. First time a woman.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Said, hey, yeah, I've got some. I got two tabs of Purple Osley acid. You want to try it? I went, what?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

She said, you want to try it? I went, no, I don't think so, man. I. I don't really. No, I don't. And she took one right in front of me.

[Marc Maron]

She.

[Don Johnson]

While she's looking me in the eye, asking me. She.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I went, give me that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I'm going with you.

[Don Johnson]

I'm going. She was pretty. Yeah. I was going with her for sure.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Don Johnson]

So I took it, and we ended up. This is a trip.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

We ended up, like, all my stories. We were up all night.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And we ended up in Grace cathedral. Now, psych, 42 years later.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

My daughter would be baptized. My youngest daughter would be baptized in Grace Cathedral.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, the end of the trip. That's a long trip.

[Don Johnson]

That was a hell of a trip. And I was standing around. I was looking in the. In at the cathedral, and I was going, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing this again in a different way.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. The parallel universe will catch up.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, so. And you're learning. You got a good teacher there. The acting.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, well. At the American Conservatory Theater. I was with hardcore pros.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

That were. That were theater veterans. They weren't these fucking actors. You know, Hollywood actors walk around with sides in their hand.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

They were actors that were off book.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Within a week.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Don Johnson]

And they started working on nuances and little bits and pieces.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

None of that shit's going on today except, you know, when I. When I. On this show I'm doing right now, Dr. Odyssey.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Which, by the way, we should spend a little time talking about.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I watched. I watched a couple.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. You're good.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah, thanks. You think I should keep it up?

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, it's a good job. Seems like a good job.

[Don Johnson]

As acting. Yeah. As a means of.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I like that movie you just. That one where you played the sheriff.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, Rebel Ridge.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That was good, dude. Yeah. I like when you're a menacing fucking. You can really run the range.

[Don Johnson]

Well, I can be a menacing funny fuck, too, like in Quentin Tarantino.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, that was great. Yeah. The plantation owner.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

No, like the Doctor Odyssey. You know, I feel like it was weird because I watched it and I don't watch a lot of network television anymore because it's hard to know if it exists. But it is a show like those old network shows where, you know, you're just moving the story around. It's clip. And, you know, you're in people's lives quick, and it's got buttons and it's romantic and it's a little dirty.

[Don Johnson]

A little dirty. It's like a dream.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Don Johnson]

Dr. Odyssey is like a dream.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Because you pop into this fantasy world.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know, that people don't know that much about, but always want, you know, they want to know about cruises.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

They want to know about what happens. And. And at first, I, you know, I did. I wasn't sure I wanted to do legacy tv, but Ryan Murphy, true to his word, made it so that it was okay.

[Marc Maron]

Well, the interest. You know, it's odd you mentioned that about.

[Don Johnson]

And he's also a sweetheart of a person. He's. He's. You know, because I. It matters to me who I work with.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, speaking of cruises. It did.

[Don Johnson]

There was a moment where.

[Marc Maron]

Where you're explaining who comes on the cruise because, like, I'm not a cruise guy. I wouldn't think to go on a cruise. I don't understand the appeal of it. But there's this monologue you have about why and that they've saved up and it's important to them. And this is their fantasy. And I'm like, that's it. That's. You know, people believe that for me, it's like I'm going to be sick on a boat with food around the corner every fucking hour. But for most people, you know, it's like a big deal.

[Don Johnson]

They don't mind being sick. They want their dream man. And so, you know, a lot of.

[Marc Maron]

People get sick on this boat. I will say that there's a lot of action on the boat because it is a.

[Don Johnson]

Well, it's hard to say. A lot of people get sick on the boat, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's half the show.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, I have to have you on the show and give you something in terminal. Terminal?

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, it's like half love boat, half emergency.

[Don Johnson]

Well, call it what you will. I like to call it a dream.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. With. With an edge to it. I mean, thank God the doctors are there to maintain the dream.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. You know, it's just kind of. I like the idea of being able to. To drop in and have, you know, it's kind of interesting seeing a. A ships deal with disasters. And what I'm watching right before my very eyes is humans deal with climate change. And they haven't. It seems to me they haven't awakened to the fact that basically it's just going around the globe hopscotching. There's a. There's a fire in California. There are floods in Nashville. There's this over here. And now the floods are moving to Spain. And now it's Botswana. And now the fire is back in Rome. Now the fire is in Australia now. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's just climate change, just hopscotching. And something interesting that I noticed with this recent fire is that we had a. We had a similar thing happen up to us in where I live by Santa Barbara. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And nine days to the day after the fire, this huge rainstorm came in and dumped a million gallons of water and floods and debris flowed and people died.

[Marc Maron]

I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And nine days or so, thereabouts, to the day this rain came in. And I have to believe that there's a correlation.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, well, I mean, there's probably people that could speak to that. I can't, but I'll go with it.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I'm with it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, how's that? And how does that relate to dealing with disasters on a boat?

[Don Johnson]

I have no idea, but it seemed like a good seg. Well, no, I just was seeing that disasters on a boat are, you know, are they like, the storms are getting stronger and stuff like that. So the protocols that they have to use on ships is much different.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

Than they once did.

[Marc Maron]

More serious.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. And so that's the only thing I was.

[Marc Maron]

Nice. So it's 68. You're in, what, San Francisco for two years.

[Don Johnson]

One.

[Marc Maron]

One. And then you just come down here?

[Don Johnson]

No, I get hired to do a show down here.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, which one?

[Don Johnson]

It was a play called Fortune in Men's Eyes. It was a prison drama.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And it was pretty racy. On guard for the time.

[Marc Maron]

And you did a lot of that stuff. I mean, you like. You did those kind of plays. I mean, if you're in San Francisco in 68. A lot of experimental theater.

[Don Johnson]

I was doing a lot of plays in repertory.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Okay.

[Don Johnson]

And then I was doing a regular show at night at the Marines Theater called your own Thing, which is a musical.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

And it was kind of like during the. It was the blue haired old ladies version of Hair.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

They wouldn't go see Hair, but they would go and see your own thing. Because we look nicer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Long hair, but we just look nice.

[Marc Maron]

It was more fun.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Something they could handle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're doing that, but you come down here for this.

[Don Johnson]

I did come out here.

[Marc Maron]

Prison play.

[Don Johnson]

And it was very controversial, but I.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Don Johnson]

Because there was a rape scene in. In the prison. And you know, that was also during the time where it, you know, it was a race to who could be more outrageous.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And so a prison drama with a rape scene was pretty outrageous.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And it seemed to work because I got hired right out of it for my very first film, the lead in my very first film.

[Marc Maron]

Which one is that?

[Don Johnson]

MGM called. I'm not going to tell you the title because it was a terrible movie. You can look it up.

[Marc Maron]

But what was the experience like being on a set?

[Don Johnson]

I was in New York City for the very first time my whole life. And I was in every shot.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I learned the very one of the first few days I was there, I. I was talking to the script supervisor and she told me that she had been the script supervisor on. On the Waterfront with. With Marlon Brando and Eli Kazan. And I said, what?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And she said, yeah. I said, okay. Yeah, well, you're going to tell me everything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, detail.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You're going to tell me every detail on both of them.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

On Brando and Kazan down to finger what they do. And she told me. Yeah. She. We were stranded one day waiting for the company to find a place to shoot. And we were stranded at Fordham University, and we were sitting on the steps there, and she proceeded to tell me everything she remembered about Marlon. It was fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Don Johnson]

It was like one of those things where she said, well, he went around and he learned everyone's job on the set. And I went, well, that makes perfect sense. So I spent the rest of that movie learning everybody's job, you know, because I didn't know where else to start, I said, just learn everybody's job. And believe it or not, it helped me do my job.

[Marc Maron]

Isn't that great?

[Don Johnson]

It was an amazing gift.

[Marc Maron]

Another time, a woman. Another woman taught you how. How to live. So outside of the movie being bad, you learned what everyone's job was?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I learned what everyone's job was. I met Andy Warhol. He was in the movie. Joe Dellisandre was in the movie. Randy Darling was in.

[Marc Maron]

Did you go down to the Factory and hang?

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The first time I went down there, Patty, the mother of my oldest son, Jesse, was standing naked on. On Andy's table down there. And where you met? Well, that's where we said hello. We didn't actually hook up until here.

[Marc Maron]

Patty Darbyville.

[Don Johnson]

Patty Darbinville.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, Darbyville. Y. She was a Factory regular, right?

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah, she was hanging out down there.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it must have been kind of interesting to deal with, like, the difference between the San Francisco idea of this.

[Don Johnson]

Let's get this straight. Kansas, San Francisco, L.A. new York, the factory, Andy Warhol, all in the space of about a year and a half.

[Marc Maron]

Different approaches to freedom.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. And I had an incredible time.

[Marc Maron]

Did you see Velvet Underground? Were they there?

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah. They were all in my movie. And.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Don Johnson]

And this is crazy. Jimi Hendrix.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Don Johnson]

Everybody? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Was it now? Were you hanging? Could you talk to him? Yeah, was.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. I was in this club called Hippopotamus. Huh. It was on 54th Street.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And a friend of mine handed me a little vial of cocaine.

[Marc Maron]

Was that the first time?

[Don Johnson]

Well, it wasn't the first. I'd be lying if I said it was the first time. But he's. It didn't have anything to do it with, he said. I said, you got a spoon? You got a straw? What do you got? Because I certainly didn't have any money.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I was a bum.

[Marc Maron]

A key is always the way to go.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, you got a key? Key to nothing. And so I went downstairs. Men's room was downstairs. And I went in and I dumped it on my hand.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Started up and walk out the door, and as I open the. The toilet door, I walk right into Hendrix.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Right into his chest. And he, I look up at him and he, he sees me and I'm like, in awe.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And he goes. And he gets a big smile on his face and he takes his thumb and he wipes the, the blow off my nose. And he says, hey, man, you can't go around looking like that.

[Marc Maron]

He took care of you?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, he took care of me.

[Marc Maron]

That's funny, man. And then you come back to LA and then after that with a little, like a little experience under your belt, doing.

[Don Johnson]

Little experience under my belt. Belt. Came back to LA and starved.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Coke.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Because nobody wants. If you make a bad movie on your first movie, they want you to suffer.

[Marc Maron]

But was it even on the radar? I mean, did the movie come out? I mean, it sounds like came out, but in one of those, like, late 60s.

[Don Johnson]

Excuse me.

[Marc Maron]

So how long were you, like, were.

[Don Johnson]

You starving on and off for 15 years.

[Marc Maron]

And were you involved with Patty or did.

[Don Johnson]

No, not until I was in my 30s.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so. So where. Where's the, where's the boozing and the drugging come in?

[Don Johnson]

Well, I did a lot of it during my 20s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Then I got sober in my 30s, 32. And I didn't, I didn't fall off the wagon until I was 42. And then I. Then I was out for a couple of years and. And yeah, you know, and then I. Yeah, I got.

[Marc Maron]

What do I got? I'm in my 25th year.

[Don Johnson]

Awesome. I. I got about 30.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's better, right?

[Don Johnson]

I mean, please, if you want, if you would just want a memory of what it was, like, just go out and lay down on the freeway and sleep overnight.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, I can't. Like, I guess what I'm getting at is that, like, by the time. So you come back to LA and. What is it, 1970? It's 71. What?

[Don Johnson]

Somewhere in there.

[Marc Maron]

That was like. That was fucking crazy here, man.

[Don Johnson]

It was fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I mean, it was like, still a small.

[Don Johnson]

But you could see it changing too, Right. See, you know, all of the, all of. All of my generation, you could see them all, you know, like, hustling up and opening these vegetarian fresh fruit places and sure, you know, they were getting into commerce and stuff like that, and making a deal with them was not all that great. And. And of course, the, you know, the, the drug dealer rules were, were basically what everyone went by.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Which was.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, I'll give it Give you this one. Try that. Try that pair there. Isn't that good? Yeah. Buy six of these.

[Marc Maron]

But like, like I don't. When I talk to people, like, I mean, I think you're a little. Maybe a little younger than that. The generation. Like you're younger than like Ed Begley and Jack Nicholson and like that crew.

[Don Johnson]

I'm younger than Jack, Yeah. Ed and I are about the same. We might be a little older than.

[Marc Maron]

Me, but it just seemed like, you know, that Hollywood at that time, especially because it was coming off the 60s and now it wasn't an ideological drug party, it was just a free for all fuck fest that.

[Don Johnson]

In the 70s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, in the early 70s that. It just must have been.

[Don Johnson]

I'm surprised that you have a specific time for it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I'm just talking about culturally. Once the hippie thing got integrated, you know, into just, you know, everyday people and drugs became totally recreational.

[Don Johnson]

Well, it became marketing, didn't it?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, kinda. But I'm just thinking that because of the nature of being an actor and being a small neighborhood, it must have the parties and stuff. Must have been crazy.

[Don Johnson]

Well, yeah, yeah, they were. You're right.

[Marc Maron]

And then you did the movie with.

[Don Johnson]

LQ Jones, a Boy and His Dog.

[Marc Maron]

And that guy is. I was. I've always been fascinated with that guy.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, he seems like an honest to God weirdo.

[Don Johnson]

Well, LQ is a very. An eccentric guy, you know, he's an attorney.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

And his real name is Justice McQueen. Yeah, that was his real name. He's passed on by now. Yeah, but. And he changed it and took on the. The name of the very first character he ever played, LQ Jones.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. And he was Peckinpah's guy. Right.

[Don Johnson]

He did a lot of Peckinpah movies, you know, and he. He kind of made the rounds. And all in all the. With all those guys, like Alvy Moore was his buddy who was also in Boy and his Dog. And, you know, and he was smart. He learned how to make a really good living in the business. And he wrote. He found that short story, that novella by Harlan Ellison. He adapted the screenplay. Somehow I got a hold of it, I went and I read for him. He loved what I did. You know who the publicist was on?

[Marc Maron]

Who?

[Don Johnson]

Don Simpson.

[Marc Maron]

No kidding.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. And before, when we were talking before about Jack, when I was 19 years old, I had a house right at the mouth of Laurel Canyon going up and Jack and Cass Elliott and John Phillips and Harry Dean Stanton and a whole bunch of others.

[Marc Maron]

Zappa.

[Don Johnson]

No Zappa. No, he. He didn't hang out with us. I hung out with Zappa.

[Marc Maron]

He lived up there, didn't he?

[Don Johnson]

He lived up on Woodrow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And. But they would come over to my house to wait rush hour out and, you know, and I would learn from all the. From all the. All the guys. And, you know, everybody was carrying something, so, you know, except for me, I couldn't afford it. I was a good user.

[Marc Maron]

Sitting out rush hour could go on for two days.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you're able to just pick their brains and hang out.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. You know, and we just became pals. All became pals.

[Marc Maron]

Stay friends.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah. Very close friends. You know, Jack and I used to golf together all the time.

[Marc Maron]

You still golf?

[Don Johnson]

I haven't been able to play in the last couple of years because I've been dealing with a disc issue. But I'm past it, so I'll probably tee it back up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You love it.

[Don Johnson]

I don't love it, but I. I like to get out and be with my. My son's play.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I love my sons. I love my kids. I'd rather be with my kids than anybody.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, wait, Was Don Simpson involved with Miami, with the. With the TV show?

[Don Johnson]

No, he was just a publicist. He was just a hustler.

[Marc Maron]

Later.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, he was a hustler from Alaska.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Like, John Simpson was from Alaska. And, you know, he was funny, and he was a. He was just a character.

[Marc Maron]

He became a huge producer.

[Don Johnson]

Huge.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Hit it big with, you know, hit it big with a couple of things.

[Marc Maron]

And I remember reading about his death. It was brutal in terms of, like, the drug scene.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Well, Don stayed a little too long at the fair.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But what is this? I read that when you were. When you were here early on, that your roommate was Sal Mineo. Is that real?

[Don Johnson]

That is not real. That is an urban legend. But, you know, I. I think Sal was a fantastic person.

[Marc Maron]

Great actor. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Great actor and got nominated for an Oscar.

[Marc Maron]

Urban legend.

[Don Johnson]

Urban legend. But you know what? People. People make up shit all the time. When I was doing Miami Vice, I was a womanizing pig one week and incredibly gay the next week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And so I just.

[Marc Maron]

People just took it. Whoever wanted you.

[Don Johnson]

I just. I just learned to accept and surrender that people are just going to make up narratives and they're going to believe in those narratives.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And take them to their death.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Whether they're true or not. Keep spreading them. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know something? Here's how much I don't care Yeah, I don't read any of that. Yeah, I pay no attention.

[Marc Maron]

That's good. That's very.

[Don Johnson]

I don't read any good reviews and I don't read any bad ones.

[Marc Maron]

So with. After A Boy and His Dog, did that launch you a bit?

[Don Johnson]

No, I still struggled. I mean, I had, you know, something of a name, but I wasn't getting paid and you couldn't live on.

[Marc Maron]

It's a weird movie.

[Don Johnson]

It's a good movie. Yeah, it's a good movie.

[Marc Maron]

Is it years before you get hooked up? Well, I mean, you were a kid then. So. What.

[Don Johnson]

What.

[Marc Maron]

How does it. How do you get to Michael Mann.

[Don Johnson]

From Boy and His Wife? Well, Michael Mann didn't really come on the show until after I had already met with Tony Yerkovich. Michael came on as a producer because Brandon Tartikoff and Universal wanted somebody to hold their hand.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Because basically Thomas Carter, the director, and the rest of us who all came out of independent films, we made that movie. We didn't. We. We went in and we. We made it. And Michael, bless his heart, did. Brought in a couple of nice additions, like a feature production designer named Melbourne and. And Michael set it up for success, but he didn't write a script and he never directed an episode.

[Marc Maron]

That's interesting because there is. There's a vibe that feels like, man, yeah, that.

[Don Johnson]

But that's because he created it.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

That's what I mean. He says he, you know, he. He created the marketing around the show, that it was Michael Mann's Miami Vice.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And he wanted Philip and I to be shot in two shots.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I caught onto that right away. And I said, you know, Philip, I let him in on what was up, you know, that we were going to do the work, but Michael was going to take the credit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I said, when we walk into a scene, you take one side of the room and I'll take the other.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So he has to cover your. Separately.

[Don Johnson]

He has to cover.

[Marc Maron]

But. So he didn't have a lot of input creatively.

[Don Johnson]

You can't say that about Michael because, you know, he thinks he's the smartest man and most creative man in the room.

[Marc Maron]

Talk to him. He. He made some good movies, dude.

[Don Johnson]

He made some okay movies. Wow.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, I'm being serious. Collateral is a pretty good movie. Last of the Mohicans, a pretty good movie.

[Marc Maron]

Heat's a pretty good movie.

[Don Johnson]

He's a pretty good movie.

[Marc Maron]

Thief is a masterpiece. All right.

[Don Johnson]

That was when he was still hungry.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And wasn't. Wasn't Drinking his own Kool Aid.

[Marc Maron]

Did you know, did you know James Khan very well? Good guy.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, he was very. He, he, I, I knew him since I was 18.

[Marc Maron]

Where'd you meet him?

[Don Johnson]

At the pool hall.

[Marc Maron]

He said, like, he was a, he.

[Don Johnson]

Was a tough guy, or so he thought. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Not a Kansas tough guy. Well, Brooklyn Butcher's kid's tough guy. Yeah, but was he, he seemed fun.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, he was. He was. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Who are your good friends here?

[Don Johnson]

Hunter Thompson was my best buddy for a long time.

[Marc Maron]

That guy's the best.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. God rest his soul.

[Marc Maron]

Fucking best. I, I, I, I, I'm mad at myself because I was up in, I was up in Francisco on a little bit of a tear with my buddy Jack. I don't know, it must have been the late mid to late 90s. And Hunter, we ended up at Tosca after this long night drinking, and he was there and he was, you know, it was on, he was on the other side of it. He seemed pretty loopy, but I didn't, I didn't say hi.

[Don Johnson]

And I do. I don't know what. Oh, man.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know what it would have amounted to, but I would have.

[Don Johnson]

He would have messed with you something hard.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. Oh, yeah, of course. Why?

[Don Johnson]

Especially if you found out you had a podcast or something.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I didn't then. I was just a guy that was like, holy. That's Hunter Thompson.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Did you know him when he managed the Mitchell Brothers?

[Don Johnson]

We went over to the Mitchell Brothers together.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

One time when they were still in prison. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because some guy I know has a business card that. That Hunter made up. Yeah, Manager.

[Don Johnson]

Night manager.

[Marc Maron]

Night man.

[Don Johnson]

The Ferrell Theater.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Night manager at the Feral Theaters.

[Marc Maron]

When did you meet him?

[Don Johnson]

I met him first time in the early 70s with Jan Winner.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Because I met Jan in. When he was still in San Francisco.

[Marc Maron]

With the original Rolling Stone.

[Don Johnson]

And, and so we met then. We kind of got to know each other. And then when I, and then when Miami Vice made it big, you know, Hunter was down in Miami every three weeks wanting to hang out.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Go shoot guns.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And like that, you know, and so we became. And he lived a quarter of a mile away from me and in Aspen. Okay. I had a ranch up in Little Woody, and he was on Woody Creek Road. I mean, literally just out of mortar range.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. So you, A lot of all nighters hanging out, talking?

[Don Johnson]

Well, we didn't really look at it that way.

[Marc Maron]

Right. How'd you look at it?

[Don Johnson]

We looked at it as just time Together. We didn't happen to notice whether it was day or night.

[Marc Maron]

He must have been a riot.

[Don Johnson]

He was a fucking blast.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

If I had a. If I had a sick animal, he would go and sleep in the stall with it while I was away. And if. When my. When Kelly and I got married, he would. If there was a storm or anything going through, he'd call Kelly and say, what can I do?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I mean, he was just. He was just salt of the earth, genius. Great guy.

[Marc Maron]

Funny.

[Don Johnson]

Funny.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And, I mean, we had some times we laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed, I bet. Till it hurt and cried and everything else.

[Marc Maron]

That's beautiful. So when you got. When you became. When Miami Vice blew up, how'd you handle that? The fame of it?

[Don Johnson]

That's a trick, because you get white hot. Yeah. And, you know, the thing I realized early on was that, okay, I gotta separate myself from this character. I gotta separate Don Johnson from Sonny Crockett asap.

[Marc Maron]

And did that require a full change of clothing?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, a full change of clothing. A full change of. Of everything. I mean, it was really sort of about picking projects that were diametrically opposed to what I'd just done. So that I didn't get typecast in just this one thing. And the fact of the matter. I don't know if I've ever told anyone this, but Brian De Palma wanted me to do Untouchables while we were making Miami Vice. And I got the script and I read it and I knew it was going to get better because it's Brian De Palma. But I didn't really like the part at the time. I thought. Yeah, I thought. I thought, you know, it's just more dress up. Yeah, you know, it's more dress up clothes centric and stuff like that. And, you know, and I want to. And. And I. By the way, I didn't know that De Niro was going to play heavy in it at the time. Otherwise I wouldn't have turned it down. But I did. And. And I. And I picked a forgettable film to play after that. But it served the purpose. It served the purpose of, oh, he can act. And in something else. Right. Besides this. It didn't do very well, but it was just to make a statement.

[Marc Maron]

And De Niro only had, like, two scenes in it. He was more of a little ensemble piece for Garcia and Sean Connery.

[Don Johnson]

And Costner, he got the. He got the movie made because Costner didn't have the name to get it.

[Marc Maron]

Didn't have the juice.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You friends with that guy?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He seemed to be like a kind of a kindred spirit somehow.

[Don Johnson]

Who. Yeah, yeah. We made a movie together called Tin Cup.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, the golf movie. Yeah. Yeah. And is that where you met Cheech? Wasn't Cheech in them?

[Don Johnson]

No, I know. I knew Cheech from before.

[Marc Maron]

From the 70s.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah. I knew Teach from before, and he's.

[Marc Maron]

A funny guy, man.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. When Cheech and I got together together and we were up there in San Francisco, we would be in that car for hours.

[Marc Maron]

In the 70s?

[Don Johnson]

No, no, in San Francisco. In Nash Bridges.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Don Johnson]

And we'd be in the yellow, yellow cuda. And we would tell stories about places where we had been. And each of us had half of the story, but not the other half.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

So. Well, let me tell you what happened. So that girl who you were, she hit the other guy over the head with a beer bottle. And, you know, so it was.

[Marc Maron]

It was the same event, but two sides.

[Don Johnson]

Same. Same event, but two sides of the story. Ratcheman.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. I had to. I had the two of them in. In the old studio, you know, Cheech and Chong. And they hadn't been together in a long time, and I grew up on their shit, you know.

[Don Johnson]

They must have fell right back into it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it was weird because I'm sitting here listening to it, and they sound like Cheech and Chong, because they are Cheech and Chong. So I'm just giggling through the whole thing, even when they're not being funny.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because it's just this dynamic.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It was crazy.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, like. So is that what brought on the relapse, though, when you did Miami Vice?

[Don Johnson]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Oh.

[Don Johnson]

Sober, I could never have made that schedule.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but you handled the fame just practically. You just knew.

[Don Johnson]

Well, I just said day at a time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

You know, a day at a time. Some things you handle poorly, some things you handle better, and eventually you. Well, you know, ultimately what I did was I said, you know, I remember where I was when Elvis died, and I remember how he died. And I am not going to isolate and die. I mean, end up dying on the toilet. But. Yeah, but I'm not. I'm gonna have a lot of friends around.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I'm just not going to be isolated. I'm going to learn how to do this fame thing out in public, and I'm just not going to be isolated.

[Marc Maron]

And was that just about. I met. Were you. Were you practicing then, you know, were you able to kind of, you know.

[Don Johnson]

Well, yeah, and also, I heard something that. That kind of tipped Me off. Marilyn Monroe was in New York with one of her friends, like, I don't know, Babe Paley or, you know, one of the. Yeah, one of the dames, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And. And she said, hey, let's go, M.D. said, hey, let's go. Let's go down Madison Avenue and do some shopping. And Babe goes, are you crazy? I'm not going anywhere with you. She says, oh, don't worry, I just won't be Marilyn. And she said. She went out with her.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And she wasn't Marilyn. She was, you know, just regular.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And nobody looked at her. And I thought about that and I went, I can do that.

[Marc Maron]

Interesting.

[Don Johnson]

I can do that. I could just not be me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I'll just not be Don Johnson.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

You know, I won't wear the clothes. I won't wear the thing. I won't, you know, and you can get into a Persona where you can blend.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And I've become somewhat of an expert at it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. Unfortunately, I've learned how to do it in the business, too.

[Marc Maron]

Well, at least you're not. I know some guys have different. They put on noses and masks.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah, that. No, I'm not going to do that. No.

[Marc Maron]

But you. What do you talk about? You. You seem to work all the time.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you look good.

[Don Johnson]

Hey, thanks, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, what. Well, how do you view that, that whole. How do you kind of.

[Don Johnson]

Hey, you know what? I'm still on the menu after 50 some odd years. That's pretty good.

[Marc Maron]

But how do you compartmentalize or sort of look at the, the arc of fame in, in a rational way, in terms of accepting where you are now?

[Don Johnson]

Fame is like a long illness. Yeah. And eventually you get over it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

But it just kind of has to wear out. Some people never get over it. Some people get addicted to it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, the, the Buddhism has.

[Don Johnson]

To help a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Getting rid of that ego.

[Don Johnson]

Well, getting rid of everybody's ego.

[Marc Maron]

But some people do get addicted to it.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But. I mean. But some people can't escape it either.

[Don Johnson]

They can, because. Well, that's.

[Marc Maron]

But it is very isolating. I mean, you get to a point.

[Don Johnson]

You know, what if you don't, if you stop running and just turn around and face the people, just. They just think they're never going to see you again.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

That's all you got to do is turn and say, hey, I'm right here. You're going to see me again.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

How you doing? Yeah, you just talk to them like a regular person. You'll find out they're a regular person. And so are you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Idiot.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Right. So have you lost a lot of friends to fame?

[Don Johnson]

I don't know what that means.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, people who you were once close with and then they became something different once they became, I don't.

[Don Johnson]

Think that that's particularly isolated to fame.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

I think throughout life you change and different things become more meaningful to you and less and less so with other things. You know, your, your things that were thrilling and exciting and fun in your 20s, not so in your 40s.

[Marc Maron]

Of course not.

[Don Johnson]

And not so in your 60s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And by the time you're in your 70s, like I am you, you are in a, this amazing place where you have, I mean, I, I, somewhere along the way I lost self doubt.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Somewhere along the way I became accessible. And somewhere along the way I learned about how to love and how to be loved.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Oh, really? So that, that's a trick.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now let me ask you about that from a personal point of view. Now, before you learned how to love and be loved, what, what was the obstacle? What were you understanding as love and being loved before that?

[Don Johnson]

Well, this is just me speculating here, but it feels like to me that when you're born into the world, you have a support system.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

That ostensibly is supposed to love you.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly right.

[Don Johnson]

Ostensibly.

[Marc Maron]

Parents.

[Don Johnson]

Parents.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Don Johnson]

But when your support system turns on you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And you're fearful.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

You get the idea that maybe you're not worthy.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. You put that voice in your head.

[Don Johnson]

Well, that voice is created in your head to parent you. To parent you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And once that voice goes in your head, it starts creating all of this behavior. You start generating narratives of how can I be on their good side? Because I need them.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And so you ship, you shapeshift.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

In order to survive your parents.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And your child.

[Marc Maron]

And you put up with their manipulation or abuse or whatever.

[Don Johnson]

Let's, let's contain this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Okay.

[Don Johnson]

Because they're just like you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

They're just kids that are trying to recover from their parents.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And so what we are pretty much is DNA conditions and environment.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

That's it.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And blaming your parents is about as worthless as tits on a bore.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Because the sooner you can get past all that and get in to the value of learning about this life on your own.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And learning what serves you and what doesn't, the better off, the sooner you're going to escape suffering.

[Marc Maron]

So, so ultimately you have to make the shift from, you know, anger and resentment to empathy.

[Don Johnson]

Accept and surrender. Acceptance.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Accept and surrender.

[Marc Maron]

Now, how old were you when this all came together?

[Don Johnson]

It's been a project I had. Eckhart Tolle asked me one time. He said, he said, hey, man, he said, when did you. When did you get enlightened? And I said, what, what are you saying? What do you. What are you blaspheming over there? I said, I. You're. This is the first time hearing of it. And he said, oh, yeah, yeah, you have some awareness, you know. I said, well, I said, if it's anything. I said, I'm reminded by that statement by Buddha that, you know, sometimes enlightenment can come to you just snap at the finger, just like that. Then other times you have to break your fingernails and scrape your knuckles and be bleeding from the knuckles, opening up the oysters one after another, 10,000 oysters. And then finally you find the pearl of enlightenment. Yeah, that was my path.

[Marc Maron]

Not the easy one. How'd you know? Totally. Was that that guy I just happened to. Was he on the level?

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, he's legit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Not a. Not a. Not a huckster.

[Don Johnson]

No, he's legit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

There's. There's a lot of people make a. A living.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Off of the, off of the way.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

The Dow. But. But the legit ones, you can tell.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. Now, and what, what's been your experience with having all these kids? I mean, in terms of.

[Don Johnson]

Greatest. Greatest thing in my life.

[Marc Maron]

Did you learn a lot of lessons around everything?

[Don Johnson]

You know, your kids are just DNA.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Conditions, an environment.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Don Johnson]

And they're going to mirror back to you exactly that.

[Marc Maron]

And how'd you do?

[Don Johnson]

You know, you hit and miss. Some are good, some are struggling a little bit. Summer. Summer. Fucking movie stars of all Goddamn. Yeah. Crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And my younger daughter is. Is a model about to become a. A movie star. She's great. She's beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Like the other one. And my. My youngest son will rule the world. He's a brainiac. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

In a good way.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah, he's. He's amazing. And my second to youngest son is basically my father.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Don Johnson]

Now we gave birth to my father.

[Marc Maron]

So he's the rough one.

[Don Johnson]

No, he's. No, no, he's just. My father was just rough when we, when I was of being born. He didn't know how he was going to feed me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

So he was afraid. He was scared to death. And. But my, my youngest boy, or my second to youngest boy, his name is Jasper.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

And he is the spitting image of my father.

[Marc Maron]

Really.

[Don Johnson]

It's incredible.

[Marc Maron]

Wild.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And do you, do you still get along with Melanie or.

[Don Johnson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get along with Melanie and her mother and you know, we have them up for Thanksgiving and stuff and yeah, everybody comes up.

[Marc Maron]

So like, I have to imagine that reckoning with the past has been a project too, in terms of the relationships. Not too bad.

[Don Johnson]

You know, one of the side unexpected pleasures that you learn from being a student of Buddhism is that you can let all that go. It doesn't mean it anything. Yeah, doesn't mean anything.

[Marc Maron]

You're just carrying it.

[Don Johnson]

You're just carrying the narrative. They haven't thought of you one second.

[Marc Maron]

That's the tough one to accept.

[Don Johnson]

You're the small me wants to think that everybody's thinking about you all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And they're just surprised that you're still alive.

[Don Johnson]

Yeah. You're still here.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Don Johnson]

Crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Well, man, it was great talking to you.

[Don Johnson]

Thanks. I enjoyed it.

[Marc Maron]

Good guy. Don Johnson. Doctor Odyssey airs Thursdays on ABC and is streaming on Hulu. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, we've almost made it through winter, people. It's time for brighter days and new beginnings. If you're going to do a spring spruce to your living space, why not upgrade your furniture with Cozy? Cozy is modern living made simple for you. They have modular sofas and sectionals, innovative storage units, customizable tables, washable rugs, and much more. You might be thinking about the size of your space. Maybe you don't know if you can accommodate new furniture or you're not sure what will fit. Cozy offers fully customizable options, so everything works for your needs. And since we're talking springtime, it's the perfect time to check out Cozy's new Mistral outdoor dining collection so you can create the ultimate patio setup. There are more than 5,000 five star reviews for cozy and free two to five day shipping is a big reason for that. Not to mention a 30 day risk free trial on all orders. Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com that's C O Z E y to start customizing your furniture. Hey. Four years ago this week, one of the greatest moments in the history of this show happened. Eddie Murphy was my guest and the best part for me was when I cracked him up like real good. Isn't that petty of me? I'm like, hey, you know, I saw you on Fallon and the candles were lit. What the fuck is that about? What am I? Nothing I don't even get a candle. Where's my candle? Dry candles. Dry candles back. So we're gonna make it. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Two more. Do you have a. What kind of. Where are you sitting? Do you have a steakhouse at your place? You know, he just asked me. He said, where are you sitting? Do you have a steakhouse at your place? No. This is. This is the lounge. There's a bowling alley here. That was steakhouse. Really? And this is the lounge right by the. By the bowling alley. So booths and stuff. Oh, how many lanes you got? Two. Two lanes. Open to the public or just private or nice? All private. Private. Do you have to rent shoes over there?

[Don Johnson]

What do you got going on?

[Marc Maron]

The. The shoes come complimentary with. With your steak. That whole episode is one for the ages. It's episode 1207, and you can listen to it for free in whatever podcast app you're using right now. If you want every episode of WTF ad free, sign up for WTF Plus. You can go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's some guitar from the vault Because I'm away from the house Boomer lives Monkey and La Fonda cat angels everywhere. Buster and Sammy are friends.