Episode 1630 - Delroy Lindo

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron: Episode 1630 - Delroy Lindo

Introduction and Context

In Episode 1630 of the "WTF with Marc Maron" podcast, host Marc Maron sits down with acclaimed actor Delroy Lindo for a profound and revealing conversation. Recorded in March 2025 from Marc's quiet hotel room overlooking Lake Michigan in Chicago, the episode delves deep into personal experiences, the challenges of the entertainment industry, and broader societal issues.

Chicago Experience and Political Climate

Marc opens the episode by sharing his reflections on Chicago's unique vibe, highlighting the city's intensity and the weight it carries. He touches on the upcoming nationwide protests on April 5th, emphasizing the importance of collective action in the face of political turmoil. Marc states, “I think a lot of people are isolated in their despair, and it's good to go out and be part of an action” (00:00).

Personal Stories and Realizations

The conversation shifts as Marc recounts a disturbing dream involving his late girlfriend, setting a somber tone. He introduces Delroy Lindo, discussing Delroy’s extensive career in film, including collaborations with Spike Lee and his upcoming role in Ryan Coogler's new horror film, "Sinners." Marc shares his excitement about the movie's unique blend of vampires and blues music, noting, “I’m a sucker for blues music” (03:35).

Discussion on Music and Vulnerability

Delroy and Marc explore the vulnerability associated with music compared to stand-up comedy. Marc admits, “I find singing very vulnerable for me... I can’t sing with any protection” (15:03). Delroy counters by acknowledging that both comedy and music require authenticity, but music’s emotional exposure poses a different kind of challenge.

Delroy Lindo's Career and New Projects

Delroy discusses his new film, "Sinners," and its significance in black horror cinema. He praises director Ryan Coogler for taking creative risks and addressing community and historical issues through the narrative. Delroy remarks, “Ryan has taken a leap with this film... he’s really committed to the story that he wants to tell” (33:14). The film, featuring a full black cast and directed by a black director, aims to resonate with 21st-century audiences by intertwining myths with contemporary themes.

Challenges in the Entertainment Industry

The dialogue shifts to the struggles artists face within the entertainment industry. Delroy shares anecdotes about industry gatekeeping and the unforgiving nature of both music and acting professions. He cites the story of a songwriter whose work was initially ignored by record companies, only to resurface years later, “the record company had blocked him because they didn’t like what he was doing” (25:23).

Personal Background and Family

Delroy opens up about his Jamaican heritage and the challenges his family faced upon immigrating to the United Kingdom during the Windrush era. He recounts being placed with a white family during his early childhood, highlighting the racial and cultural isolation he experienced. Delroy explains, “I was placed with another family. Did you follow all of that?” (56:31).

Parenting and Life Lessons

A heartfelt discussion ensues about parenting, forgiveness, and personal growth. Delroy shares his experiences with his son, emphasizing the importance of resilience and letting go of grudges. He narrates a poignant story about attending his son’s basketball game, where both faced unfair treatment but chose to move forward together. Delroy reflects, “Life ain’t fair... Onto the next phase” (69:21).

Reflections on Forgiveness and Personal Growth

Delroy speaks candidly about his strained relationship with his father, detailing the trauma of limited interactions and his journey towards forgiveness. He asserts, “I've forgiven him” (66:25), explaining that understanding his father's struggles with racism and cultural displacement helped him come to terms with their relationship. Marc adds his own reflections on parental influence and self-identity, deepening the conversation’s emotional depth.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Delroy discussing his ongoing projects, including a memoir that explores his life and heritage. He emphasizes the therapeutic nature of writing, stating, “The whole journey of writing the book has been about processing and reprocessing” (43:48). Marc wraps up by highlighting the richness of the conversation, celebrating Delroy's achievements and resilience.

Notable Quotes

• Marc Maron on the importance of collective action: “I think a lot of people are isolated in their despair, and it's good to go out and be part of an action” (00:00).

• Delroy Lindo on committing to one’s vision: “Ryan has taken a leap with this film... he’s really committed to the story that he wants to tell” (33:14).

• Marc Maron on vulnerability in music: “I find singing very vulnerable for me... I can’t sing with any protection” (15:03).

• Delroy Lindo on forgiveness: “I've forgiven him” (66:25).

Final Thoughts

This episode of WTF with Marc Maron offers a deep dive into Delroy Lindo’s personal and professional life, exploring themes of vulnerability, resilience, and the enduring impact of heritage and family. Through candid dialogue and shared experiences, Marc and Delroy provide listeners with a rich narrative that resonates on both personal and societal levels.

Links and Further Listening

• Delroy Lindo’s New Movie "Sinners": Available in theaters, including IMAX, starting April 18th.
• Previous Episodes:
  • Episode 1419: Laurie Anderson, where Laurie shares her encounter with Andy Kaufman.
• Subscribe to WTF+: Access full show archives and weekly bonus material at wtfpod.com.

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Timestamp Guide:

• 00:00: Marc’s opening monologue on Chicago and political protests.
• 03:35: Introduction of Delroy Lindo.
• 15:03: Discussion on vulnerability in music vs. comedy.
• 25:23: Challenges in the music industry.
• 33:14: Delroy on Ryan Coogler’s film "Sinners".
• 43:48: Delroy discusses his memoir and personal processing.
• 56:31: Delroy’s childhood and immigration to the UK.
• 66:25: Delroy’s journey towards forgiving his father.
• 69:21: Life lessons from parenting and resilience.
• 73:04: Delroy’s ongoing projects and memoir writing.

Note: Clickable timestamps are placeholders and should link to the corresponding sections of the podcast episode if available.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. I am in a very quiet hotel room in the glorious city of Chicago, overlooking the big lake. I can see it from my room. It's a little cloudy. It's a little intense. I don't know. Intense is not the word. There's a weight to Chicago. There's a. I always like coming here, you know, and my shows this last couple days, they weren't even in the city. They were out in Skokie and Joliet. But I'm like, I want to stay in the city because it's a fucking great city. And I can't even really explain it. Not that I need to explain it, but I don't know, I had some realization the other night where I'm just sitting up here in this hotel room in this. In this city of Chicago, and I realize, you know what? Fuck. I just like the vibe of Chicago. I can't explain it, but I just, you know, I chose to stay in the city and now I'm just in it. And I just like the feeling. And I think sometimes that's enough. I think that that's. What. I don't know about a vacation, but sometimes the experience of a place is just being in that place and not necessarily doing fucking anything, but absorbing whatever that place, whatever the vibrations of that place makes you feel and. And just sit in it or walk in it or eating it. But it's a. It's a great place. It's been a. It's been a good couple of days. I think, if I understand correctly and I've seen whatever is coming at me through the phone or the computer, that there is a global, if not nationwide, series of protests on April 5th. And look, I'll be honest with you, I don't go out to them a lot, but I think that we should, if anything, just to see like minded people freaked out, angry, scared, and sort of raising their voices. I think it's important, important to do that. Whether it'll have an effect or not, I don't know. But I think a lot of people are isolated in their despair, and it's good to go out and be part of an action. Just remember, the margin of votes that got us here was not that big, although we're being made to believe that it was. I mean, the actions that are. And policies and insanity that's taking place, it wasn't mandated. It just is. But it is a little difficult in a kind of leadership vacuum to figure out how to find any sort of hope or way through. But I think that to go out and be part of the protest is the way to go. And also, I guess this will be a test of the waters to see what this administration is willing to do when people gather, rightfully so, with their constitutional right to do that and, you know, what sort of forces will be unleashed in order to stifle that or frighten people, you know, out of doing that. God knows that, you know, people are being disappeared off of college campuses for speaking their minds or voicing their beliefs. These are actions taken by the administration to scare the fuck out of people. And it's working.

[Delroy Lindo]

It's.

[Marc Maron]

Anyway, I don't mean to start out so heavy. This is what I woke up with. I woke up from a dream of my late girlfriend that was a little disturbing. And then in waking consciousness, you know, it was just an authoritarian shit show of, you know, imagined possibilities. But. How you doing? What's going on today? I'm going to talk to Delroy Lindo, and it's a pretty amazing conversation. He's. He's an actor. He's been in movies like Get Shorty, Ransom Heist. He's been in, like, four of Spike Lee's films. Malcolm X, Clockers, Crooklyn Da 5 Bloods. And I got an opportunity to talk to him because he's in this new Ryan Coogler movie called Sinners, which is a black horror movie with. With vampires and blues. There's a lot about it that I like. I. It was. I didn't know anything about the movie, but it was kind of a fucking mind blower. And I. It's. I don't know. I'm a sucker for blues music. It's so weird right now. I don't know if you can hear it, but I think I'm sitting in the right position. Like, yeah, sometimes the zoom recorder or the microphone, I don't know how it works, but sometimes when I'm recording not at home, I can hear a faint radio signal and. And when I started recording this, I just heard this kind of haunting slide guitar. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? And I was just sitting here trying to make it out and. Because I knew I knew it. I know I knew I knew the tone of this particular slide guitar. And as I focused in, I realized it was George Harrison, I believe, on John Lennon's how do youo Sleep and. And I kind of Locked in that the faint voice of the ghosts, the ghosts of the Beatles, the ghosts of John Lennon, you know, talking shit about Paul McCartney, but also asking a pretty fundamental question at this point in time. How do you sleep? Not great. I mean, I'm sleeping okay, but the dreams, not good. So, look, folks, I'll be in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I'm coming to GLC live at 20 Monroe on Friday, April 11, and then traverse City, Michigan. I'll be at the City Opera house on Saturday, April 12, in Los Angeles. I'm at Dynasty Typewriter. Monday, April 14, Saturday, April 26, and Tuesday, April 29. Those are all at 7:30 Largo in LA. I've got an 8pm show on Tuesday, April 22, my mommy's birthday. Then I'm coming to Toronto, Vermont, New Hampshire, and then Brooklyn for my HBO special, taping at Bam Harvey Theater on May 10th. Go to wtfpod.com tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Okay. It's pretty wild. I flew out here, Southwest Airlines. I've gotten to the point where I so dislike LAX that I'll forego the luxury of a business seat or a larger airline to fly out of Burbank because I just do not want to deal with lax. And, you know, look, whatever. It's one of the few things I can do in terms of luxury. But we were on Southwest, me and Mykovsky, and, you know, I go through a lot to get off the ground. There's a lot of anxiety involved. But we got up in the air and, you know, there was something going on in the plane. I was just sitting there. I try to sit in the very front if I can, just for that leg room on Southwest and so you can sit anywhere. I try to at least get that. I was up front and there was some. I don't know, there was some commotion going on. You know, there was a flight attendant that was kind of great and kind of chatty and kind of a real character and. And I'm like, what's going on back there? And she. And this is an hour into the flight, man. And she said, we have two medical emergencies. I'm like, what? Two medical. We haven't even been in the air an hour. And then she said, yeah, but we have five doctors on the flight. Holy fuck. What are the odds of that? Five doctors on a Southwest flight? On any flight. That. That's fucking crazy. So these people, the two people that were having trouble, I guess one of them passed out and one had a seizure. Got the best medical attention that you can get in this country today. I mean, you've got to wait weeks, maybe months to see a doctor. And these people had events on an airplane and there were five doctors attending to the point where they can consult each other. I mean, it was kind of astounding that, you know, healthcare in this country is certainly not good and depending on your plan, literally months to see a doctor. But these guys, whoever these people were that had these issues, and I believe they're both okay, got the, literally the best medical attention they could get in this country today on a Southwest flight to the point where I was like, well, what are we doing? Are we going to go to Chicago or do we got a land? And she's like, well, the doctors have consulted and they've told the pilot that he can continue on in Chicago. So they had a little confab back there and shared opinions and made a group decision that we were okay to keep flying and that these people were going to be okay. And then the flight attendant told me that, but it's going to be a little longer because we had to change our route in case we had to land in Omaha or wherever. But also we had to fly at a different altitude so the air in the cabin would be less pressurized and, and easier for the people that were having trouble to breathe. So a lot of stuff going on in this plane, man. And I was just. Just kind of amazed at the fortuitous event of five doctors on a plane. I do believe that everybody was okay. Look, folks, life gets in the way, and we're always trying to cut down on the amount of stuff we're doing. One of the places people cut back on is preparing meals, and I think that's a shame. I love shopping for food and getting. Getting everything prepped and cooking things myself, but I get it. 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Home chef.com WTF and you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Free dessert. So, yeah, it's been kind of interesting these last couple of days. You know, I'm talking about what I can in relatively broad ways on stage about the. This condition we're all living in or what's hanging over us and what's happening. Because, like, if I'm going to record it, it's got a hold. So in terms of being specific about events, you know, I'm kind of doing, you know, broad strokes that are certainly critical. Certainly critical of what's happening governmentally, but also critical of, like, for instance, what's happening. I'm always sort of on top of this idea of certain people who have built this, their entire point of view on their fight for free speech and making it seem like a First Amendment issue, when really it was just a. A kind of cultural issue around getting pushback for saying outdated words that, you know, marginalized marginalized people even more. But it's interesting, these free speech warriors and this is brought to my attention. Patton Oswald sent me a video of a guy. I don't know who it was, but sometimes you get these videos and you're like, well, that sort of puts it into words. You're not hearing much from these guys now when students are being, you know, disappeared off college campuses in this country and, you know, some states are outlawing rainbow flags, that there's no champions of free speech around what's really happening on a constitutional level, not just their desire to be able to say naughty words because it makes them feel better to be sort of bullies under the guise of, you know, can't you people take a joke, you sad people? And that stuff has an effect. You know, it's just like people are just afraid to talk because they don't want to deal with it. And it's interesting when the bullies and sociopaths are emboldened, you do have a sense of real fear out there in the world. You know, Again, this is a pretty heavy Monday morning, and I apologize. But I do want to thank the people that came out in Skokie and Joliet. I thought Joliet was very special in a very haunted way, and I won't forget it. How's that look, you guys? So Delroy Lindo is here, and his new movie is Sinners, which is in theaters, including IMAX, on April 8th 18th. And this is me talking to Delroy Lindo. Let me take a minute to tell you about two great new additions to my life. The carom and the heart. Those are the two rugs I just got from Revival rugs, and they're perfect folks. I'm a rug freak, and it's not usually an easy decision. Rugs can be way overpriced and low quality. Revival's founders don't want you spending thousands on a rug, but they don't want you settling for less either. Their most popular line is Revival's genuine washable rugs, which are truly 100% washable, but have the look and feel of a real rug, so you don't have to sacrifice style for convenience. 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[Delroy Lindo]

Musician.

[Marc Maron]

Obviously, a bit, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

What kind of music do you play?

[Marc Maron]

I am sort of stuck in a basic pentatonic blues.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Country trip. I played a little last night. It's never been. I used to say I keep it as a hobby, so all my guitars don't represent broken dream vessels.

[Delroy Lindo]

But if you could have made it, you would have.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know that I had the courage to. I find singing very vulnerable for me. You know, I'm a comic, so, you know, all my tools are sort of kind of keeping pain down.

[Delroy Lindo]

There are people who would say that, yeah, being. Doing stand up is also vulnerable.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I can get there. I think it's more frightening, the vulnerable. I mean, the potential for embarrassment is there. I just find that I can't, you know, I can't sing with any protection. Do you know what I mean?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, when you sing, you're gonna be all out there. You're gonna be out there.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah. But if you're singing, like, for real, if you're authentic, sure.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't seem to know how to do anything any other way.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's fair, man.

[Marc Maron]

So I've Learned to sing in public. But it was a big. You know, I've been playing.

[Delroy Lindo]

Big deal.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I've been playing guitar my whole life. And then recently I got together with some guys and we do music nights and I do covers. And, you know, I feel that, you know, I've been doing stand up my whole life, so there's no, you know, getting on stage. There's no fear.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And when I'm out there, I know I can handle myself no matter what. But with music, you know, you're confined to that song. And if you fuck up within that song, you gotta keep moving or start over and. Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

A song.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Does it not come to you that when you're singing a song, you are free to interpret the song?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

However, you. So therefore, you're not confined.

[Marc Maron]

No, no. But, like, if I fuck up. If I fuck up the chords or I hit a bad note, you know, it's all interpretation. That's one of the reasons I think I didn't become a musician was because the skill set, you know, I'm kind of. I'm good at what I do, but it's limited.

[Delroy Lindo]

Did you see a film called 20ft from Stardom?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Delroy Lindo]

And they were talking about the difference between being a front man or front person and backup. And it's that 20ft represents a whole.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Deal.

[Marc Maron]

And I was just talking about Mary Clayton last night, you know, because.

[Delroy Lindo]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, to a. Some. We were out. I was at. Back at the Comedy Store, and we.

[Delroy Lindo]

Were talking about Comedy Store on Sunset. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And some of the door guys. I was out back hanging around, and some of them were talking about, you know, pop stars and who's the singer. And then some woman brought up, you know, that woman who sang backup on Gimme Shelter? I'm like, yeah, Mary Clayton. Right. And she tried, you know, she put out a couple solo records.

[Delroy Lindo]

She talks about it in the film.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I have them. I mean, I listen to them.

[Delroy Lindo]

Somebody else who I've become friendly with. You know who Lisa Fisher is?

[Marc Maron]

Huh? Wait, is she.

[Delroy Lindo]

You kind of sort of do.

[Marc Maron]

Is she a songwriter?

[Delroy Lindo]

No. Lisa Fisher. You kind of sort of do know who she is, because Lisa Fisher took up the mantle from Mary Clayton. In other words, she would sing on Gimme Shelter behind Mick.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I've seen her.

[Delroy Lindo]

You sure have.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, and she. And Lisa Fisher is in 20ft from stardom.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

She also had an album or two as a solo artist and didn't.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

It's very unforgiving, but it's probably no more unforgiving than the music acting or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's sort of.

[Delroy Lindo]

Actually. It is. Yeah, it is. It's worse.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because you don't get as many shots you don't get.

[Delroy Lindo]

And also, you know, I had a conversation with Aaron Neville years ago, man.

[Marc Maron]

He plays with Keith a lot.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, for real?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Keith Richard.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And he was talking about how unforgiving. And that's my word. He didn't use some other words. But how. What a. What a trip the music industry is.

[Marc Maron]

The shots that happen within music and what's expected for it to pay off is very specific. And the industry itself will just, you know, they'll just hang you out to dry, you know, if you don't make that hit or you don't have someone that believes in you. And it's all a numbers game. I think that more than acting, really, in the broad sense, it's more of a numbers game. You know, we put that thing out there, did nothing.

[Delroy Lindo]

What are we gonna do next? Yeah, onto the next.

[Marc Maron]

And also, like, who the fuck knows why people are magic?

[Delroy Lindo]

That was part of the point of. I think, part of the point of 20ft from stardom, I think, because it's. What do you call it? It's amorphous or something.

[Marc Maron]

You can't figure it out.

[Delroy Lindo]

And that thing, that thing, the it. Whatever the it is now. So I'm sitting here looking at Gimme Shelter. Yeah. Mick Jagger and, I don't know, a year ago or whatever, Keith Richards book came out a year.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, that book.

[Delroy Lindo]

I didn't read it, but I love.

[Marc Maron]

The guy, so, like.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, you do?

[Marc Maron]

I do, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay. So he was talking about. He was being interviewed on npr.

[Marc Maron]

And it's so funny, dude, because that day he was on npr.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I've been wanting to interview him. A childhood hero, right? Fascinating. And the only way we could interview him was that day, me and my producer, I flew to New York and we're waiting in NPR studios, and we were just gonna go in there and use their studios to interview.

[Delroy Lindo]

Wait a minute, like, Bum Rush or.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no, no.

[Delroy Lindo]

It was set up.

[Marc Maron]

It was set up. They let us do it because we had connections at NYW NYC or wherever it was. NPR in New York. And the funniest thing that happened was we're waiting to go in and interview Keith. He's doing that interview that you heard, and some woman is running around the office going, he's smoking. He's smoking in the building. What do we do?

[Delroy Lindo]

I'm like, you let him smoke, baby. You gotta let him smoke. What the fuck? That's it. But did you do the interview?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So, anyhow, here's my point. He mentioned in the interview, he said words to the effect. Mick Jagger's the greatest entertainer in the world. Or something like that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And I said, no, he's not. I mean, he's Mick Jagger and he does his thing. My point. It is having the it. There are a whole bunch of different iterations of it. Having the it. But the bottom line is you gotta have something.

[Marc Maron]

Something.

[Delroy Lindo]

And if you don't have whatever that.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Well, what's interesting is efficiency will get you by. If you've got a little bit of talent and you're efficient, you can work.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes, yes.

[Marc Maron]

But to have it, which, you know, I think there's a spectrum of it. You can have it to the point where people. You are an identifiable. But then you get the big it. I mean, who. The.

[Delroy Lindo]

The mega it.

[Marc Maron]

The mega it. I don't know. I don't know what makes that. It's. It's something genetic and cosmic. I don't know what it is.

[Delroy Lindo]

But wait a minute now.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's a different it. Because that. It is genius sometimes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think it's. It's transcendent authenticity.

[Delroy Lindo]

It's transcendent. I was. Who were we talking about last few months? Sly Stone.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Genius.

[Marc Maron]

Totally. Well, he was genius.

[Delroy Lindo]

Genius.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

James Brown. Genius.

[Marc Maron]

Totally.

[Delroy Lindo]

Two very different artists. Stevie Wonder. Genius.

[Marc Maron]

But also band leaders. Right. So they had an ability to facilitate their vision with leading. Leading a thing.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, with actors. A little trickier, you know? Cause some. You know. You know what I mean? Because they don't need that kind of talent.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah. This is a whole other. This is good, though. This is good. What actors need is different.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Delroy Lindo]

But talk about being boxed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Actors are boxed by the environment that they are trying to function in.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Whether that be the Hollywood machine, the institution of Hollywood, whether it be theater, your.

[Marc Maron]

Or literally, the frame of the film.

[Delroy Lindo]

The frame of the camera, the frame of the film, the frame of the theater that you're working in, you're working with other actors. Now, this is. I'm getting into real scary territory because. Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

When you. I'm on thin ice right now.

[Marc Maron]

Because only you know it right now.

[Delroy Lindo]

Well, we're talking about actors.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Delroy Lindo]

All right. Lou Gossett, for me, was one of the greats.

[Marc Maron]

Great.

[Delroy Lindo]

And I mean that with a Capital G. And he. I would put him up against Laurence Olivier. All those cats, all those people. A great actor with a capital G. Paul Winfield, a great actor with a capital G. Right. Now, the space that they were housed in, that they were boxed in, did not permit them, quote, unquote, to have the kinds of careers that other great actors, movie stars have. So there's a similarity with actors. It's tricky because obviously the music industry and the world that actors function in, they're different. But there are crossovers. There are similar kinds. Kinds of constraints.

[Marc Maron]

Lack of opportunity.

[Delroy Lindo]

All day long.

[Marc Maron]

Right?

[Delroy Lindo]

All day long.

[Marc Maron]

And. And, yeah, you get boxed in literally.

[Delroy Lindo]

All day long with lack of opportunity.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. And. And I think music, because of the spectrum of the hunger of the music industry, they're gonna pull from all over the world.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're gonna give everybody a shot. Doesn't matter, you know.

[Delroy Lindo]

Well, they're not gonna give everybody a shot. They're gonna give. They're gonna give. They're gonna give certain people a shot. Here's what I'm thinking about. And I know, you know, this cat. And I'm terrible with names.

[Marc Maron]

Me, too.

[Delroy Lindo]

I'm terrible with names. Do you remember the Brothers Johnson? Do you know who the Brothers Johnson are? And they had a hit with a song called. I Want to say it was called Strawberry Letter Number Something something.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

Da da da da da da da da da da da. The. The composer of that song, they didn't comp. They didn't write that song. There was another gentleman who wrote the song who was brilliant, and he wrote that song. He put that song on an album maybe five or six or seven years prior to the Brothers Johnson. Right. And it did nothing because the record company didn't understand what he was doing, and he fell into obscurity. Something happened.

[Marc Maron]

Hope he had the publishing rights.

[Delroy Lindo]

I don't know if he did or not.

[Marc Maron]

Cause sometimes that happens with music.

[Delroy Lindo]

No, a lot of time they don't have the publishing.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. Early on, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

A lot of. He fell into obscurity. And then something happened 20 years ago, and he resurfaced, and I bought his album. And what he was saying in a lot of the interviews that he was doing when he resurfaced and he was getting this second shot at stardom, second shot at fame, essentially, was that the record company had blocked him because they didn't like what he was doing.

[Marc Maron]

Huh.

[Delroy Lindo]

But he had a certain kind of vision.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So anyhow, I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

I don't well, know that. I mean, commitment to vision is an important thing if you've got the. If you've. If you've got the strength for it. Because that really is a testament to genius. It is that, you know, you can sell out your genius, but, like, you know, if you hear a thing in a certain way and you can't get around it, and. And there's nothing else you want to do but commit to that, that's a rare person, because they don't see another way out.

[Delroy Lindo]

So, look, I've been doing a lot of traveling, and on the plane four days ago, whatever, when I was coming from New York, I happened to watch a documentary about Sinead O'Connor. Have you seen that documentary?

[Marc Maron]

Haven't?

[Delroy Lindo]

It's called Nothing Compares.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And it was really. It's an interesting analysis of a woman, of a person who pretty much refused to compromise.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And paid the price for it.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Delroy Lindo]

Now, I'm not gonna say she was a genius, but she had that gifted. Gifted. And she had that monumental hit. Right. Global hit. But she refused. She couldn't do it any other way. And you see what happened.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, I think genius is always competing with a certain amount of go fuck yourself.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? Because it's hard to be a genius in the world, you know?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah. And culture doesn't respect.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because you're a weirdo.

[Delroy Lindo]

You're a weirdo. Cause what culture wants is a commodification.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. How do we box this? Kind of.

[Delroy Lindo]

How do we box it? How do we commodify this and sell it like this?

[Marc Maron]

That was interesting about watching that Dylan movie, you know. Is that. You know which one? Just a new one. You know, the. The. Oh.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, the one with Timothy. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you just realize that this guy was sort of a. Some sort of like, almost, you know, savant, you know, nerd who was, you know, morphing into whatever, you know, his brain was telling him.

[Delroy Lindo]

But then he became Bob Dylan.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So. But there's many versions of that. And he keeps a lot of it, you know, interior. But there's also, you know, what drives a lot of genius is, you know, fuck you. I know this is what I'm doing.

[Delroy Lindo]

Or. Yeah, yeah. Or as you said, I can't do it any other way. This is. Maybe the fuck you part is not. But I can't. This is the way I do it.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. You kind of need. Fuck you to do it the way.

[Delroy Lindo]

You do It's a de facto fuck you, right? I feel like an asshole right now, man.

[Marc Maron]

It's true. It's true. But when you talk about, like, gossip and you talk about these guys.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, man. Lou, Gossip.

[Marc Maron]

Did you know him at all?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, I did. I did.

[Marc Maron]

He died recently.

[Delroy Lindo]

He did. Yeah, he did, man. And I didn't know him know him, but I work with him twice. And I always. He's. He's, for me, the gold standard of a cat. Who. He and Paul Winfield, they're similar in as much as far as I'm concerned. In as much as gargantuan talent who didn't get the opportunities. They didn't get the opportunities commensurate with their talents as far as I'm concerned now, you know, Lou had a run, but he also. Here's a story. This is a classic, and he told me this. And it's after you won the Academy Award for An Officer and a Gentleman. I don't think he worked for a year or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

I hear that a lot.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, you hear that a lot. And I'm not gonna mention any name just because I don't want to put the name out there. But I did have a conversation with about three years ago who said that winning the Academy Award was the worst thing that ever happened. No, she. And she was not me.

[Marc Maron]

Just stay away from it. Just stay. Don't you keep doing what you're doing. Don't worry about that shit.

[Delroy Lindo]

She. She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her because she.

[Marc Maron]

I probably think I know who that is. I've talked to Oscar winners who, like, you think that's it. Especially women. And then all of a sudden, it's like, what do we do with her?

[Delroy Lindo]

It's. What do you call. Is it a poison chalice? It's a. It's not. It's not necess. I'm not going to say that.

[Marc Maron]

But also, who the hell knows what agents are doing, too, you know, if, you know, after you win that the expectation is we're not going to take anything unless it's this, this. And then by the time that gets to the talent, they're like, we don't think he should do it. Yeah, who knows? Yeah, but who? Gossip. So he told you his story?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, yeah. He didn't. I think he didn't work for a long time, and he didn't get the kinds of opportunities. Him winning the Academy Award did not result in getting the opportunities that he thought he would get. And I think I have heard Halle Berry, who I do not know, say something similar.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, she's great. I love talking to her.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, I mean, also, I mean, this kind of is sort of an age old story about the box that black actors were kept in forever. Right. So, I mean, that doesn't change.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that, you know, that. Well, that was sort of amazing about this new movie, Sinners, which I went to and watched in the theater, that, you know, you've got a full black cast, you got a black director, and I didn't know what I was getting into.

[Delroy Lindo]

You haven't seen it? You have seen it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Huh. I thought they weren't letting people, but I guess you had to see it in order to.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, why wouldn't I see it?

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay, go ahead.

[Marc Maron]

And that, you know, and I'm, you know, when I got in the theater, I didn't know anything about it. I knew there were vampires involved.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Which is not, you know, necessarily, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, run to see a vampire movie.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

But you know, when I was like, oh, this is a music movie. This is about. About the, the sort of. The transcendence and the power and the.

[Delroy Lindo]

Magic of music, and it's also about community.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I was sort of like, oh my God, this is gonna be great. You know, and he took some chances with, you know, the, the nature of the magic of music and the ways. And I was, I was thrilled to see an ensemble piece that dealt in a unique way with these not only community issues, but historical issues, but also fairly modern issues.

[Delroy Lindo]

It's very contemporary.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was very interesting.

[Delroy Lindo]

He's very contemporary.

[Marc Maron]

I got very. As I was leading into this conversation with you, I'm like, there's a lot of pussy eating talk in this movie. And I'm like, well, that's sort of one of those things that people don't talk about that. That is like a community secret in a way.

[Delroy Lindo]

So you know what? You're reminding me. Cause I just saw a second screening last night. I just saw it. And Ryan has taken a leap with this film as far as I'm concerned. And I can't really be too articulate because I'm really, frankly, still processing. But he has taken a leap and he's taken some chances with this form, and he's really committed to the story that he wants to tell and the way he wants to tell it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's interesting because it's a story, it's a myth, and it's a myth that people know. So how are you gonna get There. How are you gonna get there? How are you gonna tell the Robert Johnson story in a different way? How are you gonna deal with that mythology within the community? That's time period appropr. Charlie Patton's guitar that, you know, to create the impact of that and not just do a Devil at the Crossroads bit, you know what I mean?

[Delroy Lindo]

And how do you do all of that and make it relevant for a 21st century audience?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but I think there is a, you know, there's a precedent set now, you know, with, with black cinema and black horror cinema that. That has a place.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, I'm knocking wood. Yeah, I'm knocking wood because I want you to be right. And I'm not saying I disagree with. I am not saying I disagree. I want that space to open up. Yeah, we need that space to open up.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think Jordan Peele's done a good job at being provocative and finding a way to enable black voices in a unique way.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes. Have you spoken with him?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, not in a while. I haven't spoken to him since he was in the comedy team. I'd like to get him back in here.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay, so you haven't spoken with him post get out then?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, no, I've talked to him, you know, in, out and around. No, I've seen him around.

[Delroy Lindo]

Got it.

[Marc Maron]

But like, you know, he's. He's got a certain genius, that guy, you know, he's. He's. He's one of those guys who's committed to his vision and he's gonna, for, for better, for worse, he's gonna put.

[Delroy Lindo]

It out there and, and, and more power to him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, God bless. For sure.

[Delroy Lindo]

God bless him.

[Marc Maron]

So when you see this script, like, you know, because what was interesting to me, because I'm kind of a booze guy despite, you know, what, you know, I know it's kind of a traditional kind of white boomer thing to be, but when you have to take on that history and what's interesting about the way that Ryan directed the film was he was very clear on the roots of the music and where it comes from and the power of that and what carries through and what it meant to, you know, have music transcend the pain of being sort of, you know, wrestled into Christianity.

[Delroy Lindo]

Not the music. Transcend the pain. The music. Channel the pain.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Channel the pain.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So you can feel it safely in.

[Delroy Lindo]

A way, quote, unquote, one and the same. Cause the pain is coming through. The pain is coming through the music. It ain't half finish. Finish your Point.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I just saw it for you to see that script and to play that, you know, a guy who is, like, close to the first generation of blues guys, but, you know, on the. On the edge of being the next generation, but having enough source material to know who the guys were, you know, what did you see in that part when you read it? You're like, I'm gonna do this guy, and I'm gonna find him.

[Delroy Lindo]

What? Now, I'm not sure I'm gonna answer your question, but I can tell you, when I read the script, I thought I was clear about the fact that Ryan was using the music and this narrative as a conduit to tell a story about community and the fact that in this particular community, the music is one of the bedrocks. The church is one of the bedrocks. Yes. There's a clash as Clash. And I'm saying clash in quotes. A clash as it relates to the character that. The father.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, the preacher.

[Delroy Lindo]

The preacher.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

But they're all there. They're all there in the same place. Geographical and spiritual place. There's. There's a scene that's not in the film, unfortunately. It was a short scene in which I'm telling preacher boy, yeah, they have their church and we have ours in our church. The music is. This music is the lifeblood of this church. So they have the way that they express, and we have the way that we express. It's unfortunately not in the. Not in the. It's not in the cut.

[Marc Maron]

Well, but that. But that's. That's straddling the abyss.

[Delroy Lindo]

No question.

[Marc Maron]

And. And what. I just realized something about the movie, because at the beginning, when preacher boy comes into the church after he's been through the. The. The big battle, you know, and he hugs his dad, there are those flashes of his dad being a demon. And the thing is, is that what that implies is that it's within all of us and you're gonna hold it down.

[Delroy Lindo]

And it is.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, of course it is. And you're gonna hold it down or you're gonna negotiate it.

[Delroy Lindo]

But wait a minute. I didn't think of his dad as being a demon. I thought of his dad. I didn't think of his dad being.

[Marc Maron]

A demon, not being one, but, like, there's a moment of embrace where he's flashing to the conflict, but it didn't look like a flashback. It looked like what was happening then.

[Delroy Lindo]

And it kind of is.

[Marc Maron]

Right, Right. Okay. But what I'm saying, it implied to me that we all have it within us. And we do, but I didn't realize the sort of. The implications of that.

[Delroy Lindo]

So you know what? You know what's interesting for me right now, listening to you as an audience. Now, when did you see the film? Because it's been a few days ago. Oh, okay. So you've seen the most recent cut?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

All right. So it's terrific for me to sit here and hear an audience response and hear what you as an audience, what spoke to you, what resonated for you. Right. On the journey of the film, on the journey of this narrative. And because the fact is, for instance, when. When Preacher boy and his daddy are hugging, I didn't get. Of course I saw the flashbacks. I hadn't processed that yet. What you got from it. I hadn't processed that. I just know that it's dynamic.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just did it just now. It processed.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, in the moment. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, but it's interesting when you're talking about souls and you know that the approach was not a, you know, sell your soul kind of thing.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, it was about, you know, there's a community of lost souls that are eternal and a community of souls within, you know, earthly people in a way, that struggle. And you know that. You know, that is the struggle.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's the struggle to be a human being. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

This struggle of being on this journey and trying to figure out, what the fuck.

[Marc Maron]

How you doing with it.

[Delroy Lindo]

Speaking of. No pun intended. What the fuck.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

The process of navigating what the fuck is this? Without losing your mind.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Delroy Lindo]

Finding ways to articulate it for oneself. If you're a parent. I'm a parent. I have a son. Then trying to articulate it on some level for one's children without it becoming. It can never be. This is the way it is.

[Marc Maron]

Restrictive.

[Delroy Lindo]

Restrictive. Because they're gonna find their own thing anyhow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

But you wanna be able to interpret something for your children. And what I have recognized for many, many, many, many, many years, you know, for instance, when young people. When young actors. For instance, younger actors say to me, Mr. Lindo, give me some advice, or how's it been for you? I always preface it by saying I can tell you some things that happened to me. But I gotta tell you this. I'm still processing this shit for myself. I'm not the oracle. I'm damn sure not the oracle. Yeah, I'm still processing this. But I'll. Having said that, this is what happened to me.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

This has been My experience.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

So.

[Marc Maron]

So in. In terms of your processing, you know, how much do you find you've been processing your entire life the whole time?

[Delroy Lindo]

Listen, listen, man. I'm actually. I'm actually writing a book right now. It's a. It's a memoir. Ish. It's memoir esque in as much as it deals with parts of my life, parts of my mom's life, our lives together. And that whole thing has been. The whole journey of writing the book has been about processing and reprocessing.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, it's interesting when you write because something comes out of you where you can look at it and go, like, oh, now I understand that.

[Delroy Lindo]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. One can look at it, an experience that one has had as a child or a series of experiences one has had as a child and say, oh, that's what that is. It's not necessarily. I understand it, but it's an awareness.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, that's what that was.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, that's what that was.

[Marc Maron]

Where does the narrative start?

[Delroy Lindo]

Where does the narrative start? What does the narrative mean? What does the narrative mean to me now, today?

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, that's what that shit was. Okay. Now what? There's always a now what?

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's because, you know, once you figure out the wiring that got you here, you know, it becomes challenging when you have to question the wiring, right? Where you're like, how can I unfuck that?

[Delroy Lindo]

Well. Well, yes. How can I unfuck that? How can I. Some of it has got to be unfuckable.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But a lot of it is.

[Delroy Lindo]

Some of it is not unfuckable.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Delroy Lindo]

And some of it is like, okay, I'm gonna come to terms with this.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. Acceptance.

[Delroy Lindo]

Acceptance. As long as I know what. As long as I know what the root of this is or the genesis.

[Marc Maron]

Of this, you can make different choices.

[Delroy Lindo]

You can make different choices.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. Yeah. I mean, I used to do a joke about that. When you get to a certain age and you want to see a therapist because you're at that precipice and you walk in and you just. You know. You know why you're there at a certain age. You know, I used to say, like, look, there's a lot of things we're just not gonna unfuck. But if we can temper.

[Delroy Lindo]

You say that at the top.

[Marc Maron]

Well, just a joke. Oh.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know. But, you know. But. But if we could temper some of the unfuckable stuff so I can live with them and unfuck what we can. That'd be good.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's right. No, that's exactly right. But I wanted to ask you because I started. We started this conversation and I said that I had a certain admiration for the expression of ingenuity in certain individuals, particularly in the entertainment industry and in this public facing industry that we're in. How did you come to doing this show?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, was it. It was out of a certain amount of desperation. You know, I'd been kicking around as a comic for, you know, probably 20 years, and I'd done some radio, you know, for a spell, and I. I was, you know, I had never done it before, but I found that, you know, I. I had a. I could get through on these kind of mics. So the way this started is like my comedy career was kind of going nowhere, and I was in the middle of a divorce and I was going broke and I had no prospects. And, you know, there was this outlet that no one knew about podcasting, really. And I said to my producer, I said, you think we can figure this out and get this out in the world? And he was like, yeah, let's try it. And we just committed to doing Monday and Thursday, you know, a different show every Monday and Thursday. We've been doing that since 2009.

[Delroy Lindo]

And what was it? What were you doing?

[Marc Maron]

Well, at first. At first it didn't. It wasn't. It was like different segments. It was, you know, different. It was almost a radio structure. Right. I'd have an interview, but we do a little comedy bit and whatever. Then for a while, it was like, I do an. I always do an opening thing. That's.

[Delroy Lindo]

What do you mean? Like an opening monologue?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. But it's not funny all the time. It's me living my life.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

And then we do an interview, and then we do a third act, which was a guy who, you know, was usually an improv actor playing it real. So people listening didn't know if it was real or not.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And then eventually it just evolved into a long form interview show. And the. The idea of it, what. The way I always characterize it is that for a while it was just my peers in my community of comedy. So it was really me having famous people over to talk about myself.

[Delroy Lindo]

Other comics.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, other comics. Or to resolve issues that I thought we had in my brain. So it was built on connection. Like, I. I don't do questions. And then it became a thing, you know, it became like one of the first things in this particular medium. I had good cosmic timing and the skill set that enabled me to establish something. And out of that, I. I got acting jobs. My comedy career took off, you know, Good for you. I mean, everything changed in my garage, you know, I mean, I had. Obama came to my house in his last term.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes. Yeah, I've seen that. Parts segments of it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You heard it? Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Did he come to you or you went to him?

[Marc Maron]

No, he came to my old house.

[Delroy Lindo]

No, but I'm. No, I mean, no, no. I mean, why?

[Marc Maron]

Did he do it?

[Delroy Lindo]

No, no, no, no. Did he show an interest in you? Did he hear Marc Maron on the air and he said, oh, I want to.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think that, you know, it was his last year, you know, and it was the second term, and I think that some people in his orbit thought it would be an interesting thing. And, you know, I don't do a political interview. I can, but I wanted to do a personal interview.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And he's very candid and, you know, and he knew me like he did his homework and. But, yeah, it was. It was a connected thing, you know, it was. It was a. It was a real conversation, you know, but that was a big event in the sort of growth of this medium. Now, most people do video. We don't do video. We're old school. We're analog over here.

[Delroy Lindo]

I did one this morning. It was a podcast, but it was on camera. Yeah, yeah, which is why I thought this would be on camera.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, no, we keep it audio. We trim it up and make it nice, and we do audio product here. So to answer your question, it was a Hail Mary pass with no intention of monetizing. No real way to do that. Just a way to keep me engaged. Because it was a dark time for me and my producer, who has been with me for decades now. I met him when he was 24. Is the keeper of my consciousness. So it was a very personal show. And out of that, some sort of style emerged and saved my life, literally and figuratively.

[Delroy Lindo]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things get dark when you're not working.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah. Although, you know, yeah, I've been all right.

[Marc Maron]

You've been all right.

[Delroy Lindo]

But I know from not working. How do you find not working out here in Los Angeles?

[Marc Maron]

Because, yeah, lonely, isolated, you know, because, you know, all you can do is the one thing you shouldn't do, and that's judge yourself against other people and ask, why the fuck does that guy.

[Delroy Lindo]

Why? Why?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe I don't got it. You know, the arc of that never goes anywhere good. What do I gotta do? Maybe I don't got what I think I have now. There's no way out. And then you have something to eat.

[Delroy Lindo]

Do you find that people avoid you out here when you're not working because they think if they around you, they'll catch it too? It's contagious?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know about that. I mean, I don't think I've ever worked enough to nourish that projection.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay, all right, I got you.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? I never had that much visibility. I've always been sort of in my own zone and under the radar. I mean, I work more now and I'm able to do things I never thought I'd do. You know, acting and stuff like that.

[Delroy Lindo]

Good for you.

[Marc Maron]

But I never had the profile that, you know, people would look at me and go, like, he hasn't worked in a year. Maybe I don't want any other rub off on me, but. But do you battle with depression?

[Delroy Lindo]

Not clinical depression. I had the blues. I'm out of sorts.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I don't think I have clinical depression. You might want to ask my wife. No, I don't think I have clinical depression.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's good. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you're a guy that has a profile, that you're a unique actor.

[Delroy Lindo]

Am I? Okay?

[Marc Maron]

Yes. You hold the space in a very distinct way. You've done some. It's just interesting in terms of the stories you've been able to tell, even going to this old blues harp player, but then literally playing Spike's dad, that there has been a lot of films that you've done that really are about community and about, you know, the types of personalities that occupy these worlds.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, the ones where you really get a piece to work with.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And. But in terms of, you know, your visibility, I mean, do you find that there's something that you've had all your life that. That. That you've been struggling with or makes you different than other, you know, people in your position?

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay. I'm really and truly not being coy right now or smart or facetious.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I swear to God, I'm not. I'm not sure what my position is now. Now, having said that, I have been able to maintain I'm a working actor.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And that's frankly, special. I don't take it for granted, but because I'm not outside of myself, I'm inside.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I don't know, man. No, for real. Yeah. I don't know. I. Oh, God, it's hard to talk about this stuff without sounding she. Fru. Fru. But I will say this. I am blessed. With a capital B. I am blessed. And I'm not ashamed to say that because I am. Because I've continued to work.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

And that's a hell of a thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So I'm trying to respond to when you say a cat in my position. And part of me wants to say, what position is that?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think what I'm talking about is that, you know, for me. And I don't know precisely how you were brought up, but. But there.

[Delroy Lindo]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[Marc Maron]

But there is something about me that always. That I always feel a little outside.

[Delroy Lindo]

Me too. Me too.

[Marc Maron]

And all my life.

[Delroy Lindo]

Me too.

[Marc Maron]

And it is part of that. Sort of like I'm inside. I don't see, you know, from anyone else's point of view, but there's something uncomfortable about it.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes. But as soon as you said that, immediately in my head, where I went to was, I have acting.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

The acting avenue, the acting conduit has saved my life. Literally and figuratively. Has saved my life. My life.

[Marc Maron]

Do you remember the moment?

[Delroy Lindo]

There are too many of them to. To. To. To enumerate.

[Marc Maron]

But when you were a kid, did you.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, yes, absolutely. It was. And people asked me this question, and I always say it was when I. When I was 5 years old and I was in the nativity play at school.

[Marc Maron]

Where were you?

[Delroy Lindo]

England. I was in London.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And in writing the book.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I have. I recognize that. That light bulb moment. Oh, I want to be an actor when I grow up. Now. It wasn't linear. It wasn't. I did the play and then I wanted to be an actor. It wasn't like that, but it was. The seed was planted. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

What it had to do with was affirmation. It was the way in which the lady who. The teacher who directed the Christmas play affirmed me. And I'm not even sure that she knew. I'm fairly certain that she had no clue that she was affirming me in the way that I was receiving it. There were a couple things she said. And again, I'm repeating a story that various people have heard and will be in the book, but please go buy the book. Don't say I never read this shit before. I don't.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, yeah. There were a couple things she said. One of the other kids in the play could not remember his lines. He was having a really hard time remembering his dialogue.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And at a certain point in rehearsal, she said to him, do it like Delroy do it the way he see the way he does it. Affirming me. And she commented on my ability to not only retain the dialogue, say what I was supposed to say, but the way that I was. She commented on my bearing the way that I was doing it. And that's affirmation. And because I was a kid in an all white school, and I mean literally all white, I was the, the only black child in this, in my elementary school.

[Marc Maron]

How'd that happen?

[Delroy Lindo]

Great question. I would. If I'm being flipped, I'll say buy the book. But I will tell you that because my mom, I'm of Jamaican extraction, my mom was part of a whole movement of Caribbean people. I mean, hundreds of thousands of Caribbean people who emigrated from the Caribbean at once over. Over a period of years.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

It started in the most recent kind of iteration of this movement, started in 1948. Although I have to be very clear that people of color, African descended people have been in the United Kingdom since Hannibal, since Roman times. But this most recent iteration started in 1948 as people from the Caribbean were being invited to the United Kingdom to help rebuild that country in the aftermath of World War II. So things like the construction industry, the transportation industry, the nursing, my mom was a nurse. All of these hundreds of thousands of people started being invited by the British government to come from the Caribbean to the United Kingdom. My mom was part of that movement. And the thing is this, all of the, these Caribbean islands were part of what used to be called the British Commonwealth. So all of these Caribbean people were British. Were English or British citizens.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So my mom was part of that movement. And then when she arrives in England, she gets pregnant with me then because she is pursuing a nursing career and she has to be on campus, she has to live on the site of where she's studying. And she could not have a young infant with her. So I was placed with another family. Did you follow all of that?

[Marc Maron]

I did.

[Delroy Lindo]

That was a lot of. That was a lot of history in a minute and a half. But a white family, a white family, a white. Because of the particular circumstances of our lives, my mom and myself.

[Marc Maron]

Dad wasn't around.

[Delroy Lindo]

Dad was not around.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Bless his heart. No, dad was not around.

[Marc Maron]

Did you ever meet him?

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I met my father. One of the other things. And this is really, really, really important in life. I have forgiven him. No, I've forgiven him. Have you forgiven your pops? I don't know what your.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's the interesting question about like, you know, My, My. My dad was around, but. But. But doesn't matter. If. If your parents. If you're left to your own devices to build a sense of self, you know, it's going to be. It's going to be a long haul.

[Delroy Lindo]

It's gonna be a process, and it's gonna be a process.

[Marc Maron]

It's still happening. It's happening. I'm still.

[Delroy Lindo]

You know, we all are, man.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know, but some people. If there's people I resent even a little bit, it's the people that had parents and it gave them a sense of self. Like what I hear when you say affirmation.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That. You know, your ability to sort of eventually pursue a transformative.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Artistry.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

That gave you the relief of relief and release. Yes. That. That's a. It's. It's an amazing. I can understand how it saved your life. It is because your folks do the best they can, or they say they did, though I don't believe it generally, so I don't always. I mean, they did what they did.

[Delroy Lindo]

Hold on a second. My mom. No, I'm sorry. You finish and then I'll talk.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I'm just saying that, like, I think they were not really prepared or ready or had any sense of how to take on parenting to this day.

[Delroy Lindo]

Who does?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. I don't have kids.

[Delroy Lindo]

Well, no.

[Marc Maron]

That's what they did to me.

[Delroy Lindo]

But listen, listen, Let me just say, this ain't no handbook, man. We'd all be so much better off if there was a handbook.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, but I agree with you.

[Delroy Lindo]

There's no handbook.

[Marc Maron]

But the battle is, like you just said about your son, is at some point you realize that you have to give that kid the space and the support to develop a sense of self that will get him through life. And if you're selfishly driven or emotionally irresponsible or not in. In charge of your own shit, that kid's going to become an appendage. And then when he does find his own way, he's not going to know how to handle it.

[Delroy Lindo]

Now, question. Are you projecting right now onto my parents? Yes. Are you projecting your viewpoint based on your experience?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I'm projecting my viewpoint on trying to put together a sense of self over a certain amount of time. And all you can do is you do some reading, you do some thinking, you find explanations that jive with your particular problem, and you take what you can from that, and then you look for another fucking book.

[Delroy Lindo]

And then you. You walk out the door and you Live your life.

[Marc Maron]

That's right.

[Delroy Lindo]

Tomorrow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And tonight.

[Marc Maron]

And you try to make different choices.

[Delroy Lindo]

Okay, so look, when I said I'd forgiven my father, I happened to think. It's complicated, man.

[Marc Maron]

Because.

[Delroy Lindo]

Because, look. Oh, man, I. I do believe my mom did the best she could.

[Marc Maron]

That's good.

[Delroy Lindo]

I absolutely believe that. I. I believe that. Was she flawed? Yeah. But she did the best she could with. With what she was handed, man. My father, I do believe, could have made different choices, but he didn't. Because maybe, for whatever reason, I actually think my. My. My pops was a little bit. Okay, I'll just say this. He could have made different choices, man. He.

[Marc Maron]

He.

[Delroy Lindo]

He could have. He could have. And you know what? I. What I. The problem. He didn't need to be as destructive. He didn't. He didn't need to be. Just walk away, man. Just walk away. Don't just. You don't want to be around, then leave and stay going.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Does that make sense?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Why drag everyone into your struggle?

[Delroy Lindo]

Just the stuff that he was dealing with. Even though. I understand. Look. All right, this is what I'll. This is what I'll say to you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I've always felt that my pops had an image of himself that he was pretty much unable to manifest.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

He was consistently below the station in life to which he aspired. That was racial, cultural, sociopolitical. Here's a cat. Here's a gentleman who immigrates from Jamaica to the United Kingdom at a particular point in United Kingdom's history, and he got his ass kicked. He got his ass kicked. He got it handed to him, but so did my mom. She got her ass kicked. She got her shit handed to her, but she did. She still did the best she could. And I think my father, quote, unquote, did the best he could. But the process for my pops involved some behaviors that I just don't think were necessary.

[Marc Maron]

They couldn't live with himself, so he took it out on other people.

[Delroy Lindo]

I don't even want to interpret.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Who the hell knows? I mean, he did some. For instance, there were things. There were a couple things he did to me, and I only. I saw my dad less than 10 times in my whole life. Less than the 10 fingers in my hand. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

I saw him probably. I saw my pops probably six or seven times in my whole life. Right. Unfortunately, the instances when he would come around were always traumatic. Now, you didn't. Come on, man. You didn't need to do that. I'm sorry. I Refused. You didn't need to do that. Yeah, right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So they're the things that I, quote, unquote, hold him responsible for. But that's why I say I've forgiven him.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

Does that make sense?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, because, you know. Exactly.

[Delroy Lindo]

I have a sense of what he. In retrospect, I kind of have a sense that he was getting his ass kicked.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Figuratively. Figuratively. Sociopolitically, racially, for sure. Culturally, getting his ass kicked. A lot of the Caribbean people who emigrated at that particular point in time in England, they were getting their asses handed to them. Yeah, that. So I get it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

But I just. I still believe he. Some of the choices he made, he didn't need to make.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

Having said all of that, I've forgiven him.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's great, you know, because, like, my situation is different and my dad's still alive.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, God. That's it.

[Marc Maron]

And now he's losing his mind, and you know that. But there's a vulnerability to that.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it's kind of beautiful. And I talk about it on stage that, you know, you get to see the core of a guy, and then you also get to make choices, which, I don't know that you were enabled to make that. Like, if they live long enough and you maintain a relationship, no matter how contentious, you can kind of start to separate. Well, this is the bad shit I got, and this is the good I got from this man.

[Delroy Lindo]

Absolutely. And. Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

And then you can put it into context and say, like, well, I can work on my bad shit. It's not. You know, I don't have to be mad at him, and I can embrace the good shit and try to, you know, keep my shit together.

[Delroy Lindo]

You know what, man? I think that's very sophisticated. It's a very sophisticated and healthy way to look at it. And I understand probably what you just said. I mean, it's a journey. It's a process that you're navigating, but that's a really good way to look at it now. You know, I've lost both my parents many years ago. And on some level, I think that. No, I'm almost positive that part of my ability to forgive my father has to do with the fact that he is no longer here.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Delroy Lindo]

You know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Cause now you have control of it and he lives with you.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes. And what's the point? What would be the point of me continuing? Ah, dude, there's no point to that.

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, what are you gonna do?

[Delroy Lindo]

What are you gonna do? And, you know What? A really positive, a wonderful positive, and I'm not being facetious right now, a terrific positive is the. My father gave me a wonderful education in what not to do with my own son.

[Marc Maron]

That's it. Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And that's for real. That's facts. Which is not to say I don't make mistakes with my son. Of course I do. But broadly speaking, hey, he gave me a really good.

[Marc Maron]

Different choices.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

It's beautiful.

[Delroy Lindo]

And that is beautiful. And that's very valuable.

[Marc Maron]

And how's your kid doing?

[Delroy Lindo]

He's doing okay, man.

[Marc Maron]

Good.

[Delroy Lindo]

He's doing all right. One of the things I most admire about my son is that he does not. He doesn't harbor bad feeling. He lets it go, man.

[Marc Maron]

I wish that's something you could learn, too.

[Delroy Lindo]

Oh, absolutely. No, I'll give you a really good example. So my son's a ball. My son plays basketball.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And the semifinal game lasts not this past weekend, but the weekend before last in Buffalo, New York. I go up to Buffalo to see his game, and in my opinion, they got cheated. They got cheated, man.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Bad call.

[Delroy Lindo]

A series of bad calls. Yeah, a series of bad calls.

[Marc Maron]

So you hated that umpire.

[Delroy Lindo]

I didn't hate him. I didn't respect him. Yeah, Come on. Obviously, obvious bad calls. He was favoring nothing. Anyhow, my point. My son was very upset. I was very upset. We hugged at the end of the game. A few days later, he and I said to him, okay, this hurts. This hurts, man, because it was so blatant. It hurts, but it is a life lesson, because life ain't fair. Shit is effed up. And this is a microcosm of some aspects of life when you will be treated unfairly. And sometimes you will blatantly be treated unfairly. But my son, a few days after he. It happens, dad, onto the next, he didn't say those words. But the attitudinally, he's on to the next. And at the end of it, at the end of the game, he walked cross court. I came out of the stands and we hugged. And he said to me, and he's crying and I'm crying. And he said, it ain't over. It ain't over. It ain't over, dad. It ain't over. And I said to him, nah, man, you're just getting started, meaning the next phase. Now onto the next phase. And he embraces that. And so to your question, how's my son doing? I'm proud of the fact. And he takes after my wife in that regard. In this Regard. They find a way to embrace the positive and the possibility for the next step. Oh, it's brilliant.

[Marc Maron]

I know. I wish I could.

[Delroy Lindo]

I hear you. No, I really. I really hear you. But I'll tell you when. When. When we found out we were pregnant and we found out that we were having a son. And my wife said, he's coming to teach you some things. And that's true. And he continues. He does. He continues to teach me. And again, I've got to be.

[Marc Maron]

And you let him.

[Delroy Lindo]

I don't have a choice.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Delroy Lindo]

No. I don't have a choice. I mean, because in some instances, my son takes after me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And there are instances in which it's infuriating. And my wife will say, that's. That's you right there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And I have to. I got to give it up. I have to accept. You know what? You're right. So it's not a question of me letting him. It's a question of is. It's a question of it is. It just is. It is what it is. So how are you gonna handle that?

[Marc Maron]

Right. Right. And that's. I think that's the joy and the struggle of parenting. Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's great. I mean, it sounds moving.

[Delroy Lindo]

It is moving. It's moving emotionally. It's also. One is physically moving because one is continuing to live and grapple with life. That can't be a bad thing. It's gotta be a good thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. I mean, that's all of it. That community making, you know, being a decent person, you know?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you're doing good, man. Yes, sir.

[Delroy Lindo]

Knock on wood.

[Marc Maron]

So what. What do you got in the. What's going on now? You gonna push this movie and you working on another one?

[Delroy Lindo]

I am.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's great. And the book.

[Delroy Lindo]

My book, which I'm. I'll be. I'll be presenting my first draft to the publisher sometime in April.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, great.

[Delroy Lindo]

And I'm going off to do a film in Australia.

[Marc Maron]

Australia?

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, around the 18th, 19th of April.

[Marc Maron]

And are you writing this on your own?

[Delroy Lindo]

The book? Yeah, I am writing it on my own.

[Marc Maron]

Good for you.

[Delroy Lindo]

And my editor, I asked her a question. We met actually for the first time in New York two weeks, two and a half weeks ago. And we were talking about the process, and I asked her a question, and she said, I don't. I don't. I don't remember what the question was, but her response was, yeah, but most people don't write their own books. You're writing your own book. You're writing it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

And at that point, damn. Yes. So yes, I'm writing it myself.

[Marc Maron]

That's great because like then you can work with the editor and you know, you find out all this stuff about yourself and.

[Delroy Lindo]

Yeah, but I will say that I have some good source material because the source material for my book is I got a master's degree from NYU in 2014 and my thesis.

[Marc Maron]

You went back to school?

[Delroy Lindo]

I went back to school. I actually went back to school twice. I got my undergrad degree. I mean I got my undergrad degree from San Francisco State University in 2004 and I got my master's degree in 2014.

[Marc Maron]

What compelled you?

[Delroy Lindo]

Good question. A couple things going back to my Caribbean roots and the fact that my mom came from a generation for whom education was everything. And I had told my mom that when my mom was still living. No, I'm not going to college because I want to be an actor. And I pursued acting. I don't know that it broke her heart. Yeah, it probably did break her heart at the time. So I went back to school for my mom. I went back to school for my son, who was. When I got my. My son was born in 2001. I got my undergrad degree in 2004. And I wanted my son. I wanted to set an example so that when my son. When it was time to go to college for my son, I wanted to have seen, I wanted to him, I wanted him to experience me walking the walk so I could talk the talk.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

So I did it for myself, I did it for my son, I did it for my mom. And I also did it for myself from the standpoint that I wanted to challenge myself intellectually, educationally, to challenge myself to navigate that process and come out the other side with an accomplishment. What was the degree I got?

[Marc Maron]

The.

[Delroy Lindo]

My undergrad degree was in cinema.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Only obviously 2004. My career is already in full flow. But it was. Getting the degree in cinema was the most kind of efficacious way for me to navigate the process of education at San Francisco State.

[Marc Maron]

Because you were in it?

[Delroy Lindo]

Because I was in it. And my degree at nyu, I studied at the Gallatin Division at nyu. And the Gallatin division is. The Gallatin School is a school specifically structured for students who want to create their own degrees. And that's what I did. And my degree, my thesis. I studied the history of black people, African descended people starting in pre Roman times. I studied the evolution of their presence in the geographical space that became the United Kingdom. I tracked their presence I tracked the evolution of British racism in response to their presence going way back. Going way back. And I focused for a part of it on this period when my mom and hundreds of thousands of Caribbean people came to the United Kingdom. It's called Windrush. It's called the Windrush period because the boat that brought the first wave of Caribbean people to England was called the Empire Windrush. And I tracked their presence in the United Kingdom, the evolution of British racism in response to their presence, and how all of those Dynamics impact the 21st century Entertainment industry for black actors in England. Wow.

[Marc Maron]

That's something. Because it's a different history. And I've talked a little bit about this in a very unsophisticated way. The history of colonialism versus the history of slavery.

[Delroy Lindo]

Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

Very different.

[Delroy Lindo]

Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

But racism is racism.

[Delroy Lindo]

Racism is racism. And they're both as. The history of colonialism is every bit as virulent and violent in its own way.

[Marc Maron]

Absolutely.

[Delroy Lindo]

As the institution of slavery.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Delroy Lindo]

But to your point, they were different. They manifested differently.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's. So you were. You went and found yourself.

[Delroy Lindo]

I'm finding myself, yes. And this book is really liberating. I'm really proud. I mean, if you want to talk about the things that I'm proud of, I'm proud of. And you didn't ask me that, but I will tell you, I'm proud of the birth of my son. Probably first and foremost, I'm proud of my wife. I'm proud of my career. But I'm also proud of having achieved educationally what I've. What I've. What I've achieved. Those achievements, those accomplishments are up there. And you know what? With all of my nonsense and my neuroses and all of that, in the final analysis, they make me feel better about myself.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It's a rich life, you know. Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

Feel better about myself because whatever path I was supposed to be on, I disrupted it and I went another path.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Took a left, Took a right.

[Delroy Lindo]

That's right.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Delroy Lindo]

If I was supposed to take a left when things could have gone left and. And things fairly easily could have gone left, they didn't.

[Marc Maron]

Saved your life again all day long. Great talking to you.

[Delroy Lindo]

God bless, man. Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

That got deep. I enjoyed that conversation immensely. Again. Sinners, the movie comes out Friday, April 18, and it's pretty wild. Hang out for a minute, people. We love la. And I'm saying we because I already love it. And I know that when you visit here, you'll love it too, whether you're looking for the best taco trucks or a standout Michelin star restaurant. Louisiana's got you covered. I just went down to Joy on York in my old neighborhood of Highland park, which I love. For the authentic Taiwanese food. You can go to Bodmash up on Fairfax across from Cantor's, kind of hot rotted Indian food, or go to Cantor's. I actually go now for a vegan Reuben. And of course LA is known for entertainment, but this place is also a world class hub of art, music, museums and live theater. Check out the European art collection at the Getty center. Go to hear the LA Philharmonic at the Walt Disney Concert Hall. And you can also come here and do all those LA things you've heard about. Go to Universal Studios, check out the Griffith Park Observatory, see the view from Mulholland Drive, check out the Hollywood sign. You can't pass up all the classic LA stuff. Find more ways to love Los Angeles at DiscoverLA.com hey folks, on Thursday I talked to Lynn Margulies, the girlfriend of Andy Kaufman. There's a new documentary about Andy called Thank youk Very Much that's out now and it's amazing. And if you want to hear some Andy stories before that, you can check out the episode I did with Laurie Anderson from two years ago, which had some surprising Andy connections. Where'd you meet him?

[Laurie Anderson]

A friend of mine said, and this was also like right around that time, she said, there's this guy, you gotta go out to Queens to this comedy.

[Marc Maron]

Club in the 70s.

[Laurie Anderson]

Yeah, comedy club, early 70s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Laurie Anderson]

And. And you gotta check him out. So I went to this club and really squalid little place. It was like.

[Marc Maron]

Was it like Pips or something? It probably didn't even have a name. It probably had a name, but it was in Queens.

[Laurie Anderson]

It wasn't even a comedy, it was just a club. So there was a guy playing bongos in this place and it was a really long set. And bongos, you know, I don't know, they get a little tiring after a couple of minutes.

[Marc Maron]

Just solo bongo, solo bongo, yeah.

[Laurie Anderson]

But then as he's playing these bongos, he had about maybe four different bongos, different pitches and bongo, bongo, bongo. And as he's playing, his head sort of falls and some tears start rolling down his cheeks and he starts crying and then he's playing a little faster and he starts crying and he's sobbing and then he's like sobbing. And everyone in the club was like, what the hell?

[Marc Maron]

What's wrong with this guy?

[Laurie Anderson]

Yeah. And I was like, this is the greatest guy ever.

[Marc Maron]

That's from episode 1419 with Laurie Anderson, which you can listen to for free on all podcast platforms. To get every episode of WTF ad free, sign up for wtf. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPOD and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's an oldie from my fingers. Boomer lives. Monkey Launda. Cat angels everywhere, man. Cat angels everywhere, man.