Episode 1643 - Carol Leifer

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron: Episode 1643 - Carol Leifer

Release Date: May 15, 2025
Guest: Carol Leifer, Emmy-Winning Writer, Stand-Up Comedian, Author

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Introduction and Early Connections (16:20 - 18:04)

Marc Maron reconnects with Carol Leifer, a seasoned stand-up comedian and writer renowned for her work with iconic shows like Seinfeld and Hacks. They reminisce about their early days in the comedy scene:

• Marc Maron [16:31]: "I used to see her when I was a door guy at the Comedy Store when I was 22."
• Carol Leifer [17:56]: "Mother's Day. We're gonna be at Flappers and Burbank."

Evolution of Jewish Influence in Comedy (17:21 - 23:18)

The conversation delves into the significant impact of Jewish comedians on American comedy and the noticeable shift away from this influence in recent times.

• Marc Maron [17:33]: "There's a lot of nostalgia for the Jewish influence in comedy, but it's fading."
• Carol Leifer [22:08]: "It's crazy, right? It is crazy. Absolutely."

They discuss how antidepressants might have played a role in diminishing the traditional Jewish comedic voice, referencing legendary figures like Richard Lewis and recent talents like Robbie Hoffman from Hacks.

• Marc Maron [22:58]: "I miss the authentic Jewish comedic style that once dominated the scene."

Carol's Writing Journey and SNL Experience (19:38 - 21:56)

Carol shares her journey into writing for Saturday Night Live (SNL), highlighting the challenges and experiences she faced:

• Carol Leifer [20:03]: "My meeting with Lorne Michaels was my 32nd meeting to get a writing job on SNL."
• Marc Maron [21:50]: "It's such a great crew with writers like Smigel and Don Novello."

She recounts how after a tumultuous season, many writers and cast members were let go, marking a significant turning point in her career.

Navigating the Aging Comedy Landscape (22:16 - 31:30)

Both Marc and Carol reflect on aging in the comedy industry, the loss of peers, and the changing dynamics post-COVID.

• Marc Maron [22:07]: "I'm just starting to feel like, holy shit. What happened?"
• Carol Leifer [30:04]: "People are losing peers, and it's a challenging transition."

Carol emphasizes the importance of adapting to new formats and staying relevant, especially as the industry evolves.

Public Speaking and Carol's New Book (30:09 - 37:50)

The discussion shifts to Carol's latest work, How to Write a Funny Speech, co-authored with Rick Mitchell. They explore the nuances of public speaking, especially in sensitive occasions like weddings and memorials.

• Carol Leifer [25:04]: "People are afraid to be funny at celebrations."
• Marc Maron [30:53]: "Having seven drinks before speaking can lead to discomfort."

Carol provides insights into crafting humor for various events, offering templates and joke ideas to assist speakers in delivering memorable and heartfelt speeches.

Stand-Up Comedy Dynamics and Network Writing (37:02 - 54:10)

Marc and Carol delve into the mechanics of stand-up comedy, sharing personal experiences and strategies to handle challenging sets and maintain audience engagement.

• Marc Maron [38:14]: "Sometimes I follow Whitney Cummings or Eliza Schlesinger and just take it down a notch."
• Carol Leifer [42:07]: "Larry David's feedback was straightforward - 'No, I could see that on another show.'"

They discuss the importance of continual material development and the rigorous demands of network writing, especially within multicam sitcoms.

Collaborations and Industry Insights (54:15 - 65:52)

Carol highlights her ongoing projects, including writing a comedy pilot for Valerie Bertinelli with CBS Studios. They discuss the challenges of pitching shows in the current media landscape and the significance of bringing authentic, seasoned talent to new projects.

• Carol Leifer [65:16]: "It's an older romantic comedy about people in their 50s, something unique in today's market."
• Marc Maron [67:36]: "Valerie Bertinelli's involvement adds immense credibility to the pitch."

They also touch upon the enduring appeal of traditional sitcom formats and the strategic steps required to bring such projects to fruition.

Personal Lives and Reflections (62:04 - 72:36)

The episode concludes with personal updates, where Carol shares insights into her family, particularly her son's interests in sports and social media, contrasting it with Marc's approach to digital platforms.

• Carol Leifer [61:58]: "My son is 18. He's a senior in high school."
• Marc Maron [64:10]: "I have someone doing my TikTok, but I never go on it."

They reflect on balancing personal life with professional commitments, emphasizing the fleeting nature of time and the importance of staying connected with one's passions.

Closing Remarks

Marc wraps up the episode by highlighting Carol's new book and her contributions to the comedy and writing world, expressing his appreciation for her insights and experiences.

• Marc Maron [72:38]: "I hope you do well with the book and the comedy and everything."
• Carol Leifer [72:43]: "Thanks."

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Notable Quotes:

• Marc Maron [16:31]: "I used to see her when I was a door guy at the Comedy Store when I was 22."
• Carol Leifer [20:03]: "My meeting with Lorne Michaels was my 32nd meeting to get a writing job on SNL."
• Carol Leifer [25:04]: "People are afraid to be funny at celebrations."
• Marc Maron [38:14]: "Sometimes I follow Whitney Cummings or Eliza Schlesinger and just take it down a notch."
• Carol Leifer [65:16]: "It's an older romantic comedy about people in their 50s, something unique in today's market."

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Episode Highlights:

• Early Careers: Both Marc and Carol share their beginnings in the comedy scene, highlighting the camaraderie and challenges faced.

• Jewish Influence: A deep dive into the historical impact of Jewish comedians on American humor and the current shift away from this tradition.

• Writing for SNL: Carol provides an insider's perspective on writing for one of the most influential comedy shows, including interactions with Lorne Michaels and fellow writers.

• Public Speaking Tips: Insights from Carol's new book on crafting humorous speeches for various occasions, emphasizing structure and emotional balance.

• Stand-Up Strategies: Techniques to handle tough sets, maintain audience connection, and the importance of constant material evolution.

• Industry Trends: Discussion on the viability of multicam sitcoms in today's digital age and the process of pitching new comedy projects to major studios.

• Personal Reflections: Balancing family life with a demanding career, and the generational shifts in interests and digital engagement.

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Conclusion:

Episode 1643 offers a rich tapestry of experiences and insights from Carol Leifer, intertwining her extensive career in comedy and writing with personal anecdotes and professional advice. Marc Maron's engaging interview style brings forth candid conversations about the evolution of comedy, the challenges of public speaking, and the intricacies of the entertainment industry, providing listeners with both inspiration and practical knowledge.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Lock the gate. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Nicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. I'm sitting here in my studio amongst random garbage. Detritus of my life. A life's worth of detritus. I'm sorry, I. I just. I've only been home a few days, and I've been through a lot over the last couple years, kind of burning into. Into that special that I taped on Saturday. And now right. Right away, that it just picks up like, all right, what. What are we going to do for the marketing? What are we going to do for the ads? What do you like? What? What? Let's look at some pictures. What are we doing? Still coming down, man. But, you know, I. I don't. I'm making some progress, folks, and it's progress in a mental health kind of way, I think. You know, as I've talked to you about it, I've been on that busporin for a bit, and I can't really tell if it works. I can kind of tell because something's happening. Like, I can. I can see the zone of my anxiety and Is somewhere in between who I am and the things I do to make myself crazy. Okay. Some of those things are, you know, legit. There's no reason not to feel anxiety about certain things if they should cause anxiety. But there's. There is reason to. To perhaps not make it your life's work, which my life, it kind of is, on some level, part of it. But I. I'm. I think the beast born is giving me a little space within who I really am now. And what you. You know, what I've become and whatever journey I've been on and the things I've overcome to make me who I am and the part of my brain that's just sort of like, nope, you're not him. And, hey, how come we haven't done anything today to feel shitty about ourselves? We don't have to. I can still beat the shit out of you for no reason. You want to get hypercritical about? How about your special? You remember that one line that you don't think went that well, even though they got two shows of it from nine different cameras? And maybe if you have to do adr, you can do it, but that doesn't matter because you fucked it up. You fucked it up. You fuck. All right, let's move through. Let's move through that one. Let's let that go. But, you know, it's always right there for you. There are some things that I shouldn't feel anxious about that I do. Food, my looks. It's just there is. What I'm realizing is that there's a whole world of my brain that is constructed a certain way because of things that happened when I was younger that just wants to, you know, generate detritus. Just garbage, you know, just kind of psychic detritus that just stacks up. And then I'm like, how do I even clean this? How do we get rid of this? I've got a neural pathway full of psychic detritus in all types of forms and shapes, memories, moments, patterns. So I guess what I'm saying is it's kind of working. I went to the shrink, made him get out of his house. Not going to do zoom for things that don't that, you know, where human interaction is possible. And I made him sit across from me, and he gave me this sort of anxiety test, you know, and compared it to, I guess, the first time I was there. And he said I'm about 30% better. He'd like 50. So I don't know. And I also think that I'm getting some side effects, but I'm not obsessed with them because I don't know if there are side effects from. From the medicine or just side effects for the fact that my life has been fucking stressful for the last year or so. Every day, three jobs, always thinking, never a free moment, you know, but. But I just. I wanted to explore with you that zone between, like, you gotta be grateful, give yourself credit for what you've overcome and who you are today. Like, there's a lot of things like that I'm not anxious about. I wasn't anxious about the special. I wasn't anxious about the material. I was a little, you know, you know, on the fence about my shirt, and I was hoping my hair would work out all right. But in terms of feeling fear going into it, zero. Zero anxiety. But then I realized that that is who I am now, that I no longer have those fears. But my brain was sort of like, yeah, but we're pretty used to, you know, kind of making it difficult for you and. And having fears, you know, in general. So I'm glad that you're not fearing the thing you've worked on for two years and that you're ready to go, but let's do. Let's do these other ones. There's all kinds of dread we can muster up. And I know I've talked about this before, but I think that if anything is working, it's that the medicine is giving me a little more space between who I am, where my brain's at now in terms of I'm okay, you know, I'm doing good work. I'm, you know, I've learned a lot of just all the stuff that represents, you know, the whole person, but I still got this fucking garbage factory in my head. A goddamn detritus generator. You. Yeah, psychic detritus generator. Right. Huh. Today on the show, I'm talking to Carol Leifer. She's been on the show a while back, and I like her a lot. She was on like back in 2011, so it's been a long time. That was episode 203. But she's a stand up of the generation of Seinfeld and Larry David and, you know, little, you know, younger than Richard Lewis, but from that crew. She just recently won an Emmy for her writing on the show Hacks. And she's got a new book out called how to Write a Funny Speech. How to Write a funny speech. That's helpful for you people, I guess. You know, I don't know if it's still number one, but it used to be the biggest fear people have is public speaking, but now it seems like not enough people are afraid of it. I guess public speaking, when you do it alone in a room with your phone and you're speaking into it, is different than actually getting out there amongst the people. Putting it on the fucking line, man, where you can't fucking do another take. Delete it. Do another take. Delete it. Do another take, man. You got one shot at this fucker. Maybe two. Yeah, I'm talking about my special which should be out in July. I think the date is July 26th. Also that show I did with Owen Wilson. Stick that. That trailer's getting around. I guess that's premiering on June 4th. I think I should be more on top of these things. I should promote myself more. At least the things I'm involved with. Right. The bad guys is coming. But anyways, fear of public speaking, not enough of that going around. I think some, maybe some people should just turn it off, shut it down. All right. You know, I know you're charismatically engaging and whatever it is you do for 30 seconds at a time, but are you adding anything or are you just some. Some content detritus? Yeah. Is that it? So, look, it's time to take home security seriously, okay? I. 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So now that I'm opening up this space in between who I am currently and all the things that have made me who I am, that I've worked hard cognitively to manifest and the detritus mill in my mind and in that zone where I have this space, you know, it's time to figure out what do I enjoy that isn't immediate gratification? What do I enjoy? What things would you like to be doing, Mark? Would you like to sit down and read more books? I don't think so. Would you like to maybe take in more films and art? Only if it's good and it's well referred, you know, thoroughly vetted by people I respect who can, you know, tell me that it's great. Would you like to travel more? I don't know. I don't love it. You know, pitch me some places. This is the other part of my brain, by the way. Would you like to buy some other things, like a new car? Why? Why? Why? Just because I can. Would you like to get better at guitar? Yes, but I never seem to do it. I don't. I, you know, I practice and I play, but it's still within my comfort zone. And sometimes I add new notes from new scales I learned, but I guess that's progress. Would you like to do more music in your life, maybe with other people? Yes, yes, I would. But then you have to make plans and arrange things. Would you like to get rid of some of the books and pieces of, you know, things that you've collected over many years, either on purpose or not, and get rid of them. God damn it. Yes, I would. God damn it. But would that bring you joy? Maybe. Maybe some relief. But I've got to get beyond relief and into the joy thing. And I'm back home and I'm just doing stuff. I'm cooking. I'm trying to isolate. What do you like to do? I get up and I drink a lot of coffee. That guy John from Lantern Coffee, Grand Rapids, Michigan, sent me some coffee and some chocolates. Fuck, dude, that shit is so good. I don't even know if you can get it online. Lantern Coffee. Nice of them to send it because it's weird, because when you have an experience on the road and you're like, is this really the best I've had? Is this really amazing coffee? And you mention it on your podcast, and then the guy sends you some and you're like, God damn it, it is. But anyways, so I do the coffee. I do. I have several options of nicotine right now, which I could probably get off of. And then I exercise. But I like cooking. I started cooking. I like to have a full fridge of things. I cook so I can have things to eat all week. Because then. But what about. How about that? Maybe you should enjoy more food out. Why? I cook better at home. There's a lot of ways. Maybe you should spend more time with other people. But I do kind of well. And do what? I got to figure it out, because I, like, I just made some Indian food yesterday from scratch, and I just. I'm going to make some more. I look forward to it. But is that immediate gratification? Because, like, I take time making things and I eat it, like, really fast. Look, if I can widen that zone between who I am and the psychic garbage manufacturing plant in my head, maybe I can, you know, kind of stop, slow the plant down, you know, go through the garbage a little bit and then figure out some things I like to do. The problem is, it's just like, is this it? Is this it? And you know what? It kind of is. Even if you say, like, is this it? And I'm like, I'm not going to do it this way. I'm going to do it another way. Eventually you're going to hit, is this it? You know, when. When does that sentence. When does it. When is that question answered? Is this it? Yes. And it's amazing. Is this it? I hope so. Wow. So good. Because as soon as, like, you know, you do that. So good. And Then like a couple days later you're like, ah, it's okay. And you're just. Then you're back to. Is this it? God damn it. Just standing on a pile of fucking psychic detritus. Psychic detritus dump. I'm all right, though, the good part. I think that the part of me that, you know, feels proud of himself, feels like he's doing good work, enjoys things. He's going to win, man. He's. I'm rooting for him. I'm rooting for him. Ooh, I found this. This coconut yogurt. Look, I'm a plant based motherfucker right now who no longer says vegan because of annoying vegans, but Coco June coconut yogurt. Holy fuck. I was doing Coco yo for a while because, like, I like yogurt, but you want to get that probiotic stuff because, you know it's supposed to be the answer to everything. Is this. It is a probiotic. It is. Then, yes, it is. But this Cocoa June stuff is fucking great. Isn't it exciting when you find something you love to fucking just stick in your fucking mouth and eat it? Isn't it the best thing when you're like, man, I'm just gonna keep eating this until I don't like it anymore? It's great. See, I know joy. It's finding something that you just want to fucking shove into your mouth and keep eating until you're just like, you're beyond full, you're beyond happy, and you're just sort of in a world of fuck. How's that for an ad for a coconut yogurt? Eat until you're in a world of fucking Cocoa June yogurt. It's very good, though. It's hard to do the non dairy stuff and they just fucking nail it. Okay, look, Carol Leifer is here. Her new book that she co authored with Rick Mitchell is called how to Write a Funny Speech for a Wedding, Bar Mitzvah graduation and every other event you didn't want to go to in the first place. It's available now wherever you get books. And this is me and Carol talking. So Kathy Ladman is opening for me.

[Carol Leifer]

That is so great for the special. Fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, I knew her when I was a door guy at the Comedy Store when I was 22. I used to see her.

[Carol Leifer]

I didn't know you were a door guy at the Comedy Store.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was a. It was a brief period. It was almost a year. I got very up on drugs and I had to leave. But I was a Door guy in. I guess it would be 86, 87.

[Carol Leifer]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

So I used to see Kathy, like, you know, when she was, like, young.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I always liked her. I never thought she liked me, but I. I think she has one of those personalities where, like, anyone could assume that about her. I don't think she. I don't think she likes me. She just very. You know. But I decided, like, I'm going to have her open for me because, for one, as we were talking about before we turned the mics on, there's this, like, this Jewish thing that doesn't, you know, Jews sort of dictated what comedy was for decades.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it's just gone.

[Carol Leifer]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, it was the sort of through line of American standup, American comedy writing, everything. It was all that rhythm. It was all from that.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it's gone. The people that do it are gone. But she's still here.

[Carol Leifer]

She is.

[Marc Maron]

And you're still here. And she's got a very specific kind of delivery that is very nostalgic for me, but also very true to what I grew up with.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And I just thought, like, well, that would be nice to have that.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, she's a great opener for you. And I've been working with her a lot. Me, her and Wendy Liebman.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Mother's Day. We're gonna be at Flappers and Burbank.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Do you tour with it out in the world?

[Carol Leifer]

I do.

[Marc Maron]

And what do you call it? Is there a name for the tour? Is it like three Jewish ladies or something like that?

[Carol Leifer]

Hilarious.

[Marc Maron]

Of course.

[Carol Leifer]

How about it has to be that name.

[Marc Maron]

Why didn't I figure that out? Why didn't I guess that her larious. And what do you guys do, like, 20 each? Half hour each.

[Carol Leifer]

We do a half hour each. We just headlined the Comedy and Magic Club. We have a great, great time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah, I bet. And this is not an insult. Have you thought about, like, playing Jewish things?

[Carol Leifer]

Of course we have. Yes. Yeah. We did Tarzana. We did a country club in Tarzana that was about 99% Jewish. And it's fantastic. But I do a lot of speaking at temples, at jccs. You do Federation? Oh, yeah. That's very big on my docket.

[Marc Maron]

What do you mean? Like, this is a speaking engagement. So you're like writer, comedian, producer, whatever. We'll discuss her life and show business.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Carol Leifer]

Judaism is in my DNA.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. So that means what?

[Carol Leifer]

So I talk a lot about Mark, my Jewish upbringing. You know, how it's Impacted me through my life. And then people love my story of in show business because I've been around for so long.

[Marc Maron]

Right. And like, I know we covered probably a lot of it way back, but it's been a long time. But I mean, like, you were a standup. Like I remember you from being around when I was younger. And then you were a writer forever. Yes, but what was the first writing gig again?

[Carol Leifer]

My first writing job was on SNL. Oh, yeah, in 85.

[Marc Maron]

Was that the weird year when Lauren was gone?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, yes, the weird year.

[Marc Maron]

Uh huh. And who brought you in?

[Carol Leifer]

What happened was I auditioned, there was a showcase at the Comic Strip, and Al Franken saw me with Jim Downey, who was the head writer for many years. And right after they approached me and said, we'd really, you know, love for you to be on the writing staff if you're into it. Am I into it? You just have to meet Lauren. So, you know, I was ready to move from LA back to New York to do this and got ready for my meeting with Lauren and had everything planned and my outfit and the whole thing. And I went to this rehearsal hall to meet him where he was auditioning cast members for that season. And he came out and he said, hello. And then he said, I don't do a good Lauren. He said, jim and Alf said, you're. You'd be great for a writing job. You know that it's a lot of late nights. And I said, yeah. And he said, okay. And he went back to the room and that was my meeting with Lorne Michaels.

[Marc Maron]

And then he was gone, though. Like, did he leave? Was he. Was that the year he wasn't around?

[Carol Leifer]

No, no, that was the year he was around. It's just a story of, you know, my 32nd meeting with Lorne Michaels to get a writing job on snl.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you'd met him many times before? No, never.

[Carol Leifer]

That was it.

[Marc Maron]

And how long were you there?

[Carol Leifer]

I was there that season.

[Marc Maron]

That was it.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What happened?

[Carol Leifer]

They, you know, they got rid of most of the cast and most of the writers after that season. But I was, you know, part of a murderer's row of writers that year.

[Marc Maron]

Who was there?

[Carol Leifer]

Smigel, Don Novello, John Swartzlander, George Meyer, Jack Handy. Yeah, yeah, it was a pretty great crew.

[Marc Maron]

It's so wild, man. Like, because I'm just starting to feel this sort of. I'm 61, so I'm just starting to feel like, holy shit. And because of COVID I theoretically should be 58, you know, like it happened to. All of a sudden I'm like, what happened? It's like, well, we lost three years.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But now I'm looking around and I imagine it happened for you. Like, it just happens where all your peers were, like, older people.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it's bizarre, I know, because you hold them in your memory as so. Like you're young people. And now all of a sudden, I'm looking at my contemporaries, like David Cross or, you know, Todd Berry or some of the guys I started out with at tell, and I'm like, we're the old guys now.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The fuck happened?

[Carol Leifer]

It's crazy, right? It is crazy. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And the other thing we were talking about before, which, like, I realized, you know, after Richard, you know, passed away, like, I don't know what exactly happened. Why, you know, like everything else, comedy became non Jewish.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It frightens me. But I also understand it. I used to have a theory that, you know, once antidepressants were introduced, you know, the tolerance for Jewish complaining was enough already. Was diminished. Right. Like, you know, you'd see Richard Lewis. I'm like, you know, they have medicines. Listen, you know, we can solve this problem.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, screw your act.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, we solved this problem.

[Carol Leifer]

There's meds.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I don't. I don't really know what happened, but I guess, like, lately I've been, you know, kind of nostalgic for it. Cause I don't see. Anytime I see somebody who is fundamentally Jewish, like, have you seen Robbie Hoffman? She's on Hacks this season.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Marc Maron]

That is crazy. Like, she grew up.

[Carol Leifer]

She's so funny.

[Marc Maron]

She's so funny. But she grew up Orthodox in this, where they still speak Yiddish. So she's actually like predates, you know, modern comedy Jews. And she has this delivery that's genuine, but it's like, just post Yiddish. It's crazy.

[Carol Leifer]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So what, this public speaking thing. Cause I know you wrote this book.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And when I looked at it, I was sort of like, I'm not even sure I know how to do public speaking really well. I mean, I'm like, anytime I've done it, it's always off. I'm kind of. I'll write things down, but I don't think in terms of the structure or who I'm talking to. Like, there was a brief period where I would go out and make myself available for keynote type of things, but eventually I just get too personal and I do. It's not that I'm doing my act.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just get Too honest. And they're sort of like, what is it? Doesn't fall within the expectation of what public speaking is.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. But I would think, because Rick Mitchell, who I wrote this book with, who is a comedian and wrote on Ellen's talk show for three seasons, usually comedians, I love speaking at events, and he does, too. I would think that you would love, you know, not specifically keynotes for corporations or groups, but that I would think people go to you right away for a wedding or a memorial.

[Marc Maron]

No, never done either of those.

[Carol Leifer]

Wow. I'm very surprised.

[Marc Maron]

But. So do you have a chapter for memorials?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, yes, absolutely. Because you know what I've found, and especially at our age, going to more memorials.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Carol Leifer]

I really enjoy speaking at them because I find it to be very cathartic for me personally. But also in the book, we talk about, you know, people are afraid to be funny at celebrations.

[Marc Maron]

I've seen people kill.

[Carol Leifer]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Kevin Nguyen at Gary Shandling Memorial was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Carol Leifer]

I saw that. I was there. Oh, my God, you had that, too.

[Marc Maron]

It was crazy.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, yes.

[Marc Maron]

So funny.

[Carol Leifer]

But to bring up certain stories about someone, people love it. Like, I just spoke at my cousin's memorial. He passed away of cancer at 55.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, God, that's too young.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And the thing that everybody loved about him, he was a great people person, social butterfly, just, you know, so much fun. So I told this story about how we had gone to see the Beach Boys together, him and his wife and me and my wife at the Greek. And I said, afterwards, we were invited to the little after party. And I said, I really want to go over to my glove of the Beach Boys and say hello because I opened for them in 1982 at Harrah's in Lake Tahoe. I want to see if he remembers me.

[Marc Maron]

He's out of his mind, though, right?

[Carol Leifer]

Mike Love?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

I don't know if he's out of his. Yeah, I just know him as a Beach Boy.

[Marc Maron]

He's just a Beach Boy.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. But anyway, so we're at the little after party, and I'm trying to work my way over to Mike. I can't do it. I don't see my opportunity to get a drink at the bar. I turn around, my cousin Jay is talking to Mike Love like he's known him for 40 years. So much so that when I walk over, Jay is like, oh, hey, Carol, come here. Hey, Mike, do you remember my cousin Carol? She opened for you a million years ago at Harry you Know, and people loved. I loved telling that story, and people loved it because it really encapsulated who my cousin was. So, yeah, we do talk about.

[Marc Maron]

Did he remember you?

[Carol Leifer]

No. No, not for a second.

[Marc Maron]

Did he even politely say that? He did.

[Carol Leifer]

He just kind of nodded. You know, the vague nod.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because they don't pay attention. Who's the opener?

[Carol Leifer]

No. And it turned out to be the worst gig of my life.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

It's that memorable. But you still wanted to see if he remembered you.

[Carol Leifer]

I just wanted to see what if.

[Marc Maron]

He had said, like, oh, you had a tough night that night.

[Carol Leifer]

I would have appreciated that because they used to tune up while I was still on stage and I had to go backstage. I had no manager or agent with me and you know, go like, Beach Boys, can you please not tune up while I'm out there? So I thought maybe, you know, he'd even maybe apologize this many years later.

[Marc Maron]

But none of that's important to the piece for the memorial. See, I would bring that stuff up. That's my instinct. It's like, you do the funny thing about the guy and then he goes, yeah, but I'm a little pissed off. That would make it about me somehow.

[Carol Leifer]

But that's fine. I mean, people would. If I had added that into the story, they would have still enjoyed it, I think.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's the one thing about that audience. You know, the worst that can happen is they walk out going, it's a little weird part with the.

[Carol Leifer]

No, but I love giving speeches.

[Marc Maron]

And that's why, like, when you break it down, though, like, let's say, for a memorial, what are the points?

[Carol Leifer]

The points are to reminisce about qualities about the person that you remember, that people remember. Stories. Stories, in any speech are the gold of a speech. And also, you know, being heartfelt, it's always important. You know, I feel at the end of a speech to not be, you know, Joe, comedian and wrap it up with something heartfelt.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

And certainly with my cousin Jay, it was easy because his death was really hard. And such a great person. And to lose his life at such an early age as, you know, is difficult.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. For everybody.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And acknowledge that. Acknowledge your own feelings about the loss. Don't be afraid to have to emote. You don't have to, you know, be funny necessarily. Though I would imagine as a comic and writing this with a comic, you know, you have to sort of try to give advice, how to balance that out.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Like. Like. Like I just said, it's like you can make it about yourself, if it's appropriate for the event and include, you know, and it's part of the story.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, but to veer away from yourself and focus on the person.

[Marc Maron]

So, like, what other. So there's weddings. So that would be some more thing you focus on.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, look, there are basics that people don't know that we could not believe. Like keep it five minutes and under.

[Marc Maron]

Your speech, do a type five.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, my God. How many times have you gone to a wedding, an event, there's booze involved.

[Marc Maron]

So you don't know what you're gonna get.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Do you say, don't drink too much before you talk?

[Carol Leifer]

We say, have a drink. Have on one drink, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

But then people have seven more, and then they're hammered up there. And how uncomfortable is that?

[Marc Maron]

It's memorable, but uncomfortable.

[Carol Leifer]

And people are recording it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, of course.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. So this is important now more than ever.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what are the other chapters for? Like, a business or, like, what? I mean, I guess I could look in the table of contents.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, there are a lot of basics, Mark, because as I mentioned, a lot of people are not aware of them. Were you at Richard Lewis's memorial?

[Marc Maron]

No, I was out of town.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, it was a really nice memorial.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, this just happened a couple weeks ago. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. But, you know, people get up and they start talking about the person, and they don't say who they are to the person.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

So you're up there, they're up there, and you're sitting there thinking, is this a relative?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Carol Leifer]

This guy went to camp with it. You know, it becomes like, you know.

[Marc Maron]

And that's distracting your brain.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Ncis. Who? What? So for people to go up and say who they are to the person, you know, that's important, too. But we do go into how to make something funny with steps. But even if you're not, you don't feel like doing the work. We have a whole section at the end of we call jokes to steal for any occasion. Take the jokes, put them in your speech. No one will know.

[Marc Maron]

That's good. That's helpful.

[Carol Leifer]

And templates, Mark. We have templates where you just kind of fill in the blanks.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Like Mad Libs.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Wanted to make it easy.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Carol Leifer]

Easy for people.

[Marc Maron]

It's very helpful because, like, it is, like, it's one of those things I would think this book would sell because it is the most, like, the scariest thing. It's the top of the list. Most of the time.

[Carol Leifer]

Right. Most people's greatest fear is talking in front of large groups of people. But comedians greatest fear is not talking.

[Marc Maron]

In front of large groups or bombing in front of large groups of people. That's the greatest fear. It's like, I can talk in front of people, but there's that moment where you're like, I don't know if this is going to go too well because we know what we're there to do.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And you see the challenge of it and you're like, oh, it's odd that no matter how long you do this, like, there's that sixth sense that happens when you're backstage and you just like, like listening or assessing an audience. You're like, that table. That's. That's gonna be a problem.

[Carol Leifer]

You could tell.

[Marc Maron]

You can.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy.

[Carol Leifer]

It is really.

[Marc Maron]

Like, there's an energy in the room. You're like, there's something wrong over stage, Right?

[Carol Leifer]

Yep.

[Marc Maron]

What is it? And then you're like, it's that guy.

[Carol Leifer]

You can't. It's like a radar that we have. It's crazy. That's very strange. You know what's so funny? I just did Pete Holmes podcast and he said something that I've never heard before, but it's so true. He said, you ever find you have a bad set and the next set after that is good? Kind of almost guaranteed.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

You find that too?

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. Because, you know, whatever you put out, like, it happens. Like, if you do a spot at the Comedy Store in the main room and then you got an original room spot, the main room can kind of go either way because it's a big room, and no matter how many people in there, it can be less than satisfying. And you might have a hard time connecting, but when you do two in a night and you've already put yourself out like that.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you have to put that, like, little bit of armor on that you used to do all the time.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, the next set, you're going to be like, you.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

You can't hurt me.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just was pummeled down the hall.

[Carol Leifer]

And it's like. It is like a self preservation thing. Like, I'm not going to go home tonight upset over my dead body.

[Marc Maron]

You don't want to. Yeah. You know, I've said that on stage at the Comedy Store before. Like, you know, whatever happens here, I'm not gonna drive home thinking I made the wrong decision with my life. So you're not gonna do that to me. Or I'm not gonna do that to myself. Yeah. But there is that idea where you're excited to do it and you know you're good at it and then you just. It's just part of the job. You go out there and it wasn't good and then you're like, oh fuck. And then you gotta go at the next one a little harder.

[Carol Leifer]

Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

You know, until you find the zone where you can let it down a little bit.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean our life is crazy and I've gotten very. You get spoiled too when you have an audience. Like I make sure I go do the store just so I can perform for people that don't know me. You know, like if I go out.

[Carol Leifer]

To the theater, I'm surprised. I would think when you go out on stage, people know you.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, I'm not. I'm not like that. My profile is not that big. Like they're not. I'm not every household name or anything. So like it's going to be people that kind of know me or don't know me. But people do know me. Me. But if I go do my audience, they all know me.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's almost like cheating. So I.

[Carol Leifer]

Right. But it's good for you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's nice, you know, to, to. But like that spoils you in a couple ways because like then like sometimes I'll do clubs where, you know, I know that they, they didn't necessarily all come for me because I'm working it out at a comedy club, not a theater. No. There's a walk ups at theaters. Like I wonder what's going on tonight.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But like sometimes if, like if I get to. I talked about last night on stage. I had a bridal party, you know, a bachelorette party at the Comedy Works. Uh, oh yeah. But like I knew most of them were my audience and I gotta babysit these fucking idiots.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I was like, how can. It was a long story. But I mean the point is, is like I forced myself to go do the regular work just to stay tough.

[Carol Leifer]

That's good, right?

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? Just to, you know, see if this shit works. With an unsympathetic bunch.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

In a 15 minute slot. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

And also following, I'm sure some.

[Marc Maron]

That's still heavy hitters. I still like get mad about that. I have not been able. Because I know like, you know when you have 15 minutes and you're after somebody, that's a killer.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, well now the first five is exactly.

[Carol Leifer]

You gotta Work your way out of the hole.

[Marc Maron]

I've got tricks that I can do with certain. Because you end up following some of the same people.

[Carol Leifer]

Can you tell me one of your tricks?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, well, Paulie doesn't kill necessarily, but he's Paulie, and he's one of these guys. There's a couple of. There's a tradition at the Comedy Store. Some performers bring the lights in. Like, they'll have the spotlight as opposed to the full stage lighting. And he's one of those guys. Him and Argus, they do this thing. Alan Stevens used to do it, but where they have a choice, so they get the spotlight as a. Opposed to full stageway. So, like, he does his thing and people are excited. He was a big star and, you know, and then the lights come back out, and then they. He brings me up. And generally, just to clear the slate, I'll say, paulie Shore, ladies and gentlemen. I'll go, yep, that's what he looks like now. I use the same line for Spade, too.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, there you go. Now you're off to a good start.

[Marc Maron]

You're in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Or if I have to follow Whitney Cummings or Eliza Schlesinger, I always get up and go, like, okay, let's just take it down a notch. Or I'll say, let's shift from, you know, whatever, whatever, to Cranky Jew. Like, anything that'll get me.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Oh, that's really smart.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Cause you only got 15 minutes.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, see, I can't. I don't work at the store. I can't get on there.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, I know.

[Marc Maron]

They just changed bookers. I don't know what's going on there. Where do you work? Improv.

[Carol Leifer]

I work a lot at Comedy and Magic Club.

[Marc Maron]

Do you live over there?

[Carol Leifer]

No. Well, I live on the west side.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's good.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

For me, I'm like, I don't. That's like a different state to me. I'm like, do you ever work there? I'm like, I don't even know how to get there.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, it's in Hermosa Beach.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

It's like an hour from here.

[Carol Leifer]

And I do the Laugh Factory a lot. You know what I love to do is Kevin Nealon's new material Night. Have you done that?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really? Where's that? At Laugh Factory.

[Carol Leifer]

At the Laugh Factory. But you have to go up and it has to be all new material. How great is that for us comics?

[Marc Maron]

And how's the crowd?

[Carol Leifer]

They're great. They're great. And just you know, normally where we have to go up and shoehorn in a new bid here, shoe, you know, between two.

[Marc Maron]

So you can bring your notebook if you want.

[Carol Leifer]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Someone does that in the belly room, the store. Sometimes I think Fahim does it where you just. You can just work out shit.

[Carol Leifer]

It's fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

It's a great world we live in now because the podcast and everything else is that people like to be part of the process. That was unheard of before.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, like, I used to bring notebooks up and people were like, no, what the fuck? Is he.

[Carol Leifer]

Is he going to school?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, he doesn't have this shit worked out already. We paid for a pro show. Does he do that every week?

[Carol Leifer]

He does it once a month. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He never asked me. He asked me to go on his hiking show, but he doesn't ask me to do his new material.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, you know what? But that's the thing. I reach out to him and say, can I.

[Marc Maron]

Come on, can you do it and work it out? Yeah, yeah. And you got a bunch of new jokes and you do it.

[Carol Leifer]

And I love it because, as you know, with 10 new bits, maybe two or three will work, but they're there to hear, even the clunker ones. And you know, when you have a new bit that works, there is a no better feeling.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. But I imagine, like, I think we probably work differently structurally. Like, I go up with an idea and hope that the punchline comes, I imagine. And then I'm sort of like, oh, it happened again. The gift. But I think that you're probably more structured and you write the joke. Yes, it's good. Like, I always regret whenever I write, whenever I come up with a well structured joke off the cuff, I'm like, well, I know how to do that. Why don't I do it more often? That's. Why do I gotta.

[Carol Leifer]

But you have a new hour that you're doing.

[Marc Maron]

It's like an hour and a half.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, hour and a half. So that takes a lot of working out.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it works out. But it's all sort of oral tradition with me. Like, you know, I have premises and I have bits and pieces, and they all kind of become fluid over repetition, and it just naturally kind of forms itself, you know, for. It's all in my head, though, which is, you know, that can go either way. You lose a lot of stuff.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, if you work with solid jokes, you have them, you're like, what was that one? Oh, I have it written down with me. I just have, like, cats you know, and then, what the fuck? Which one? You know, so it's not the most efficient way, but it all keeps me on my toes, which I think is part of it. But you never. You never went through a period where you stopped doing standup?

[Carol Leifer]

I did a little bit during writing for Seinfeld. I stopped, but I learned my lesson the hard way. Then I went back up on stage after a couple of years of not going on stage, and then it was like, oh, holy shit, I'm losing all the experience that I had before.

[Marc Maron]

It's interesting, right?

[Carol Leifer]

You know, it's like a muscle.

[Marc Maron]

It's like the gym. That's why you gotta use it or lose it. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

So since then, I always.

[Marc Maron]

It's like going to the gym just like, to stay in that relationship completely. Yeah. And that's great. But. And also, you're doing, like, real show. You're doing. Working.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you're still. And you wrote. I mean, I can't. You wrote that. You were on the staff of that last Oscars.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

With Conan. So funny. And you've written.

[Carol Leifer]

Wasn't he amazing?

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, I've known him forever. Like, I was a recurring guest on a show. I used to do panel. I always wanted to be.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, on the NBC show.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I always wanted to be the Richard Lewis to him. Like, I wanted to. Like, I did two standup sets early on 96 probably. And then from there on out, I'm like, can I just do panel? I want to be the panel guy. I want to be the guy that comes, sits down, and you're like, oh, what's going on with Mark? You know, so we built that relationship. So I've known him a long time, and I know how he works. And it was a very funny thing watching it, because I saw him at Largo, like, two nights before, you know, kind of working shit out.

[Carol Leifer]

I'm so surprised that nobody taped it and leaked it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know. There's only certain people that do that, you know, and at Largo, that's not really the audience that would do that.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, that's true.

[Marc Maron]

You know, no one ever does that to me, ever. And if they did, it's like, it's not going to be like, a viral thing, you know, they'll achieve the disappointment I do when I post a reel on Instagram. They think they got some hot item with my bit that I haven't done on especially yet. And it's got 200 views. I'm like, you really got me. I guess I can't do that on the special, but so I'm watching Conan, and, like. And I turn on the Oscars because I love the Oscars. I always have. I like it. I felt over the last few years, there was a sense of what I grew up with in terms of the community of Hollywood showing up. It's not that it's no longer there. They're just. Or they're gone. So, you know, you're not gonna see Jack sitting up front anymore because he's 100, and I'm not sure how well he is, but I miss him, you know, so. So there's this changing of the dynamic.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly. It's still the greatest show on earth.

[Marc Maron]

I love it. I love the spectacle of it. But I didn't know how Conan would do. And I know Conan, and, like, I'm watching it, and I watch him come out, and he does the first joke, and then he started to do that thing he does where he. You know, he has a moment of insecurity, and he buries the joke, you know, like, he'll like, I know. I got whatever. Like, it's an insecure thing. And I'm like, don't do it. And then, like, after the first two jokes, he was like, yeah, all like. He just killed so hard, and the confidence was so. It was like. It was beyond anything I've seen from him.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. But you know what? I knew he was gonna do great because right before the show, I went backstage to wish him luck.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

And he was. You could see it in somebody's just the way they are. He was cool as a cucumber. And he was like, thanks, Carol. You know, I just want to go out there, and I want to have fun. And that's what he did. Yeah, but I've seen that look of panic before a hoax goes out.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

And he just was in the zone.

[Marc Maron]

And he brought it back to what I thought the set was tasteful. Like, you know, the way it looked, you know, And I thought the way they handled the audience was good. And I just thought it came because I asked him the night I saw him. I said, you're going to do musical number. He's like, I don't know. And then they fucking did one. And it was just like. It was totally his own thing, a Conan musical number. But he brought back the sort of weird celebration of the structure of the show. Yeah, he did, and it was great. So what were the conversations about that in the writers room?

[Carol Leifer]

Well, Conan had his own team of writers, and I'M part of the team that handles the show.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

So we talk with the presenters and go over the things that were not Conan related.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so you're writing the bits for the people that present.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes. Yeah. And I'm usually on the show team. You know, I've worked on it. This is my 11th time.

[Marc Maron]

In a row.

[Carol Leifer]

No, not in a row. Over a number of years. But, you know, I've written for some of the great hosts like Billy Crystal and Steve Martin and Alec Baldwin and.

[Marc Maron]

Whoopi and Alec Baldwin hosted.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, yeah. With Steve Martin.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Yeah, I don't remember that one. Maybe I missed a couple.

[Carol Leifer]

I remember it because Steve Martin wanted to have a writer session up at his house. And, you know, from when I came up, Steve Martin was like everything to me. I'm such a fan. And it was totally one of those moments of like, oh, my God, I'm in Steve Martin's living room writing jokes with him. And, like, it was really like, yeah, if I go now. I had that moment. Yeah, completely.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow.

[Carol Leifer]

Completely.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like I've lost some of those moments, having done this show for so long and, you know, kind of talking to people for long periods of time.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I just see people as people, but there are certain people that I'm like, oh, my God, you know, what am I. What am I going to do with this guy? You. How am I going to keep it together?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, yeah. Like who?

[Marc Maron]

Albert Brooks? Like, it took me years for him to finally do it. And of course he's like, he didn't want to do it at his house. He didn't want to come here.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So he got a room at that. That. What's. That little. Little beautiful hotel on the Santa Monica. It's like kind of old school, kind of deco. It's very kind of boutique Y. I can't remember the name of it, but he gets a room there. And it was hilarious. It was just hilarious to talk to him. He was like, we were at Shandling's memorial, and I'd been trying to get him for years on the show. I remember we were at Shandling's memorial. Everyone's waving. He comes up to me, puts his hands on my back. He goes, let's do it now.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

And Larry's. Larry was another one who would never come on the show. He never came on and.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, but eventually, well, he.

[Marc Maron]

He was doing those, you know, he was gonna do those conversation. Moderated conversations with him, you know, that he did a few of them.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And he wanted me. He wanted me to do the first one, so I did the first one. I didn't know it was gonna be a thing. And I. And he didn't either, but, like, oh, my God. I. And you worked with him a lot.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Seinfeld and Curb, I have to assume, and I love him, that, you know, you don't know what's going to happen, like, leading up to it. Like, you know, the agreement we had was I could use it as a podcast, and we do it. It was live in dc, a few thousand people, and I was going to structure it, you know, like. Like I do here, to have a. Like, kind of a life arc conversation. And, you know, and his assistant had sent me all these, you know, this screen, this montage of him through different years.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I'm putting together this whole interview, and he goes, what are we talking about? You know, he's telling me, like. Well, I'm like, well, I got the thing from your assistant. I thought we'd go through the whole life. He's like, what. What are you talking. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Well, yeah, you know, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, this, you know, your bar mitzvah and everything. So, like, by the time, you know, a few days before, he's like, I don't want to talk about any of that. I'm like, all right, so what are we going to do?

[Carol Leifer]

Okay?

[Marc Maron]

He's like, I don't want to talk about politics. I want to just be entertaining, and I don't want to talk about my life. And I'm like, oh, fuck. And it was driving me crazy, you know? And then, like, you know, like the night before, you know, he calls me up, he's like, do whatever you want. And then, like, the day of, I'm in D.C. for the show, and he calls me earlier in the day, and I literally thought, like, he doesn't want to do it anymore. That'd be great. Maybe he won't want to do it.

[Carol Leifer]

That phone call, right?

[Marc Maron]

Relief.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But he's like, okay, you good? You ready? And it went great. You know, I just real. I learned a big lesson, though, to just be gracious. It wasn't about me, and just, you know, throw to him the things that he's gonna get laughs with. That I know. And that, you know, he. You know, that I know he wants to talk about, and then just shut up. And then, like, wait till he peters out and then do another one.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that's it.

[Carol Leifer]

See. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But when you go to Steve Martin's house. So did you. Were you able to kind of keep it together to pitch jokes and stuff?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, I mean, after the initial shock of zooming out and oh my God, I'm sitting here writing jokes with my idol, Steve Martin, then, you know, you get back into it and you know, Larry David, I know literally since my first date in show business, Mark, because you know, he was the emcee at Catch Catch Rising Star when I did my open mic night, who put me through. So I do, you know, I know him forever.

[Marc Maron]

So you know how he works.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, especially. Cause working at Seinfeld and knowing how to pitch to him and Jerry, you know, was a great training ground also because, you know, Larry's very cut and dried and I think that's really one of his greatest qualities. Cause you can pitch something to him and you're like, no. You know, the biggest put down at Seinfeld was like, no, I could see that on another show.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

But if he was excited about an idea, he would get genuinely excited.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, well, the funny thing that involved like with me engaging with him was I could make him laugh, you know, so that is good. Yeah, you know. Cause it's a rare thing sometimes, especially with funny people, but like he's got a great laugh and you can get him.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, you can. Yeah, I know that from Curb. Cause he would break up all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. So that, that was easy. But like, did you have, have you had trouble with like hosts to live like with non comedic hosts. And I imagine presenters that's gotta. You write these jokes and everyone's on board, but you don't know if they're gonna dump them or not or like if they're gonna get. Pull them off.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, you don't. But the beauty of working with people is they really do wanna be good. Yeah, they don't wanna go. You know, it's really tough for them because they're mostly actors, so they don't know how to go out and be.

[Marc Maron]

Themselves or be funny necessarily.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. But we really work with them to make sure that they're 100% down with what they want to do. And they give a lot of feedback and of course we take it and you know, come up with something. I think people also know that as a standup also they know that when they work with me that I'm gonna give. I know the feeling of going out there and being unsure or not knowing what you're gonna do. So I Think they have a sense of confidence that I'm going to give them something that they. Cause, you know, most of it is confidence going out.

[Marc Maron]

And also, like, the only time the reason it doesn't work sometimes is that, you know, when you're a comic or you're used to being funny in front of people, you know, your instinct is to get the audience, you know, without even saying it. Like there's. You know what I mean? You're. All you're thinking about is if the thing's gonna land and. But you know how to do it. So, like, I think if you don't know how to do that, you're just kind of flying blind a little bit. Yeah, right. And you've got the thing on paper and you don't know how to maybe put the twist on it. Yeah, to make it funny.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

But it worked. I remember there's some funny stuff in this last one and I just like that it came back to a host driven thing as opposed to like, who's the host? You know, it worked out better.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And the times. I think there have been a couple of times there's no host. I don't like that kind of show and I don't think the audience does. Cause it feels rudderless.

[Marc Maron]

Totally.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

You want someone and when someone does it, great. Like Conan did, you know who you look to as. As the host? It's his party and he's running the ship. And people like that.

[Marc Maron]

Totally. So now you've been on Hacks all four seasons.

[Carol Leifer]

No, no, I was just on the last season.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Huh. Cause I've been watching it and I like it because I think it gets something right about Stand up that you don't. That they don't usually get right.

[Carol Leifer]

And especially with Jean Smart, because that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. I've never seen an actor play a standup comic and do it convincingly. And she does. I mean, you totally buy, don't you, 100% that she's a comic.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah, but I buy the life more. Like, you know, like I talked to Paul Downs about it. That's his name, right?

[Carol Leifer]

Yes. And I listened to that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That. That they're, you know, having known, you know, people that from the 80s who were relatively big get shots, end up in Vegas. Like, I know that is an arc.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

That is a trajectory of a type of comic that came up in that time and they were very specific about that backstory. So that gave it all this kind of realness, you know, like it was Authentic.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, whether or not when they shoot her doing standup, I completely buy it. It didn't matter, you know? Cause there is some element of it that it's almost impossible to capture what it is that a standup is able to do, but if you get all the trappings right, it works.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, that's so true. And I think a big reason why they brought me on was having come up in the 80s. I know a lot about that world and what it was like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

So I hope that I added to her authenticity as being a comic and also as someone, you know, and that she's still around.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly.

[Carol Leifer]

And, like, me. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, what was the pitch? Why this season? Like, was there specific stuff that they wanted for you that they. Well, we need Carol to do this because we're gonna be doing this.

[Carol Leifer]

No, it wasn't that specific. As much as they have a thing called the Blue Sky Room that they do before each season where they get people together and they just spitball ideas. And I think I had pitched a lot of ideas that seemed interesting to them also, being of Deborah Vance's generation, that I think that they found that they could find that helpful.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

So of last season, the episode that I wrote was, you know, it was called One Day, and the theme of.

[Marc Maron]

It was the season we're in now.

[Carol Leifer]

No, in season three was last season.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, One Day. Which one was that?

[Carol Leifer]

That was when they. She and Ava go hiking and they get lost.

[Marc Maron]

Right, right.

[Carol Leifer]

And I had been talking in the room about how when you get to be Deborah's age, my age, and you think about things that you want to do. Like, I still think about, oh, I'd love to have a little part in a Broadway show, and I'd love to do this. And you think One Day. Well, you know, One Day is now.

[Marc Maron]

Right? Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

If it doesn't happen soon, maybe it's never gonna happen. So that also became something that, you know, she talked about in that episode. And I think that is something that only an older person, someone of our generation thinks about. So not necessarily someone who's 30 years younger than me on the staff is going to think about. I was happy to contribute.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, that whole world, like, it's not like, I don't know that world, you know, the Vegas. The Vegas residency world, but I know it's a real thing. And that you're afforded this lifestyle because, you know, you're overpaid and you're given a place to live, and they Treat, you know, they'll give you all the money in the world if you can bring people into the casino.

[Carol Leifer]

Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

And there's, like, so many acts, certainly people from your generation that have done those, you know, but. And I know that. Like, who do I think about when I think there's just people, like, every time I go to the Burbank Airport and I see the signs, I'm like, oh, my God, they're gonna be there for two months. Have you ever done those?

[Carol Leifer]

I haven't, but, you know, I have played Vegas a lot throughout my I never do it career. No.

[Marc Maron]

It's not my thing, but I don't think I'm right for it.

[Carol Leifer]

Well, it depends on the act that you're opening for. But I certainly know, you know, from doing those gigs, the clock in the stage, and if they tell you to do 20 minutes, do 20 minutes. Because if you go over a minute, that's a million dollars they're losing in the casino. So they're strict about that. And, you know, all these little things. I mean, you know that I opened for Frank Sinatra in Las Vegas, so you and Dreesen. That's right. And Larry Miller, who I had called beforehand to get some advice about the gig. I think he's doing okay.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He was so funny.

[Carol Leifer]

The funniest. The funniest. But, you know, each of these gigs has their own roadmap that you have to kind of figure out.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I just don't.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. You in Vegas doesn't really seem like it doesn't.

[Marc Maron]

And I'm okay with that. You know what I mean? Like, the idea of just thinking about doing it, because there's part of me that thinks, like, well, you know, I can do a casino, but it would not be good for me, you know, necessarily.

[Carol Leifer]

Right. But, like, when I've done it opening for Seinfeld, that's a certain crowd. Yes.

[Marc Maron]

You know? Cause, like. Yeah. I mean. And I never really opened for anybody, but I remember seeing Alan King in Vegas when I was there in high school or something.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, how great.

[Marc Maron]

When I met my grandparents out there. But it was. It was weird because it was a, you know, it was like a smaller showroom. It looked like it could have been a banquet hall on another day, you know.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, so it wasn't one of the big showrooms?

[Marc Maron]

It didn't. Not in my recollection. And he come out and, you know, he kind of, you know, kind of autopiloted through 45 minutes, no opener, and left. And I was like, wow, that's that's the job. It's kind of weird when you see certain, like, you know, comics, like, where they just get to a point where they're just filling a time slot.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, they're not going out there to kill. And, I mean, he was already an older guy, so I don't know.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And I think that's also the trap, too, of doing your act for so long, where you don't add any new material because it becomes like, you know, being in Oklahoma every night, you just kind of feel like doing your lines scripted. So that's why I think it's always important to do new material, because it keeps you vibrant and into it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So what happens now? What are you doing now? Just a comedy. How's the family? Your kids must be older now.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, My son is 18. He's a senior in high school. How crazy.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Yeah, it happens. Yeah. The cliche is completely true. Yeah, it flies by.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you have two or just.

[Carol Leifer]

Just the one.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, just him.

[Carol Leifer]

The one son.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He's doing all right.

[Carol Leifer]

He's doing great. He's doing great. Yeah, he's a good kid. He's, you know. My wife, of course, got him into golf.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Carol Leifer]

Lesbian requirement, is it? Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Do you play?

[Carol Leifer]

I gotta get back into it, but yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is he good at it?

[Carol Leifer]

He is good. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I've got this whole set of clubs I've never taken out. Like, I did a show for Apple. There's a golf show, but I just played a caddy, an old caddy, so I didn't have to golf. But, like, it's Owen Wilson. It's all about golf, and I don't know anything about golf.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, oh, you're doing that?

[Marc Maron]

I was in it.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, you're in it?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, I thought there was. I didn't know they had done it already.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's gonna be on in June. But I play his old caddy, so it's not on me to golf, but, like, they sent me, you know, one of the companies, TaylorMade, sent me all this stuff, and I'm like, I don't know if I have the patience, man.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, it does take a lot of.

[Marc Maron]

Patience to suck forever.

[Carol Leifer]

No, it's a lot like standup. You gotta really suck to get good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but does not sound appealing to me.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, I got over the stand up. Yeah. No, thank you. No, but he's into it. He's good. But, you know, he's a sports fan. He's into, like, the Bills and Josh Allen. It's just very cool when you have a kid and they develop their own.

[Marc Maron]

World, they become their own people.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And he loves soccer and he drives downtown and see these games.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, wow. That's great.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Very cool.

[Marc Maron]

There's. I'm hearing this sort of like, I don't know how he just became this person.

[Carol Leifer]

He became his own person. How did that happen? Oh, and he's funny.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Which is. But I. I knew that kind of early on.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That he was funny and like. But having a teenager around, that means you're kind of privy to this other world and other language of whatever is happening on their phones and on their platform and on everything. Like, I can't keep up with stuff, and I don't have a kid. But you have to deal with it all the time. Like, I mean, I have somebody doing my TikTok, but I don't ever go on it.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And. Right. He's on it all the time, and all his friends are on it.

[Marc Maron]

Are you on it?

[Carol Leifer]

No, no.

[Marc Maron]

No one's putting your clips up.

[Carol Leifer]

But I should, because to. You know, I'm focusing now on selling my book, so it's a.

[Marc Maron]

And also standup.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I got a guy doing it. He's just like, there's an entire history of me in standup spots, and he just clips things.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, how great.

[Marc Maron]

And he says, what about this one? I'm like, all right. And then they just go up there. And I don't have a tremendous amount of followers, but I do know to speak to, like, you know, whether people know me or not, that there's definitely more people don't know me who Than do. And when these clips come up, they're like, who's that guy? You know, it's still discoverable.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. I'm so surprised. Well, maybe I should get his name.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. The guy.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah, there's a few guys get my stuff up there.

[Marc Maron]

Why not?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

We're a show business now. For you. Is there still a world where you pitch shows and stuff?

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you're doing that?

[Carol Leifer]

I am. In fact, I'm creating a comedy for Valerie Bertinelli.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's so good.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Yeah. She's so funny.

[Marc Maron]

She. She is. Well, I mean, I haven't seen her in a long time, but I interviewed her son, and he was great.

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, right.

[Marc Maron]

Wolfgang.

[Carol Leifer]

I love that one.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, it's great. Their relationship is great.

[Carol Leifer]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I would interview Valerie in a minute. I don't Know why I haven't?

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, you should.

[Marc Maron]

Because she was like. I mean, when I was a kid, like, she was like, great.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What was it? One day at a time.

[Carol Leifer]

Yep. And she's fantastic. You know, I totally had her in mind for this idea. And then you never know when you meet the person. Fingers crossed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

She's incredible. She's so sweet.

[Marc Maron]

And they're gonna do it.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's. What is it about? Can you tell me?

[Carol Leifer]

It's an older romantic comedy. It's a romantic comedy about people in their 50s, which I've never seen before, and I thought would be interesting when you've kind of established yourself, your personality.

[Marc Maron]

Been through some shit.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Brought up a couple kids and falling in love with someone at that age and the challenges that go along, but still wanting. Finding love.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I don't know if there is a show like that. Is there?

[Carol Leifer]

There isn't. So that it's kind of interesting. Yes. Thank you. It gave me a leg up in pitching because now whatever you pitch is like, it has to be something nobody's ever seen before because they're so ready to suit.

[Marc Maron]

Is it a network?

[Carol Leifer]

Oh, that's like this. That's like this. Yeah, it's with CBS Studios.

[Marc Maron]

See, that's what's interesting is that there are these shows that are basically Boomer shows, and I think that generation still watches network driven stuff.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, the kids don't. They're just watching YouTube or clips or whatever. But there's still a whole generation of people that are like, I don't even know where to watch it.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and like, you have stuff like the Kaminsky Method or any of the Laurie shows. Like, those are all for a generation of people that grew up watching television.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're still there.

[Carol Leifer]

Exactly. But look, the Kominsky Method was on Netflix, so there's.

[Marc Maron]

Well, Netflix is an exception. People know about Netflix. Yeah, I guess people. Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit. They can figure out where to watch something, but it is sort of challenging.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And she also has such a big fan base. You know, she is very open on social media.

[Marc Maron]

About who? Fowery. Okay. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

She's very out of her.

[Marc Maron]

And people know her.

[Carol Leifer]

People know her and they love her.

[Marc Maron]

So what'd you write? You got a pilot or you got a whole season written?

[Carol Leifer]

No, we just have the pitch. Yeah. Yeah, the pitch that we sold. But, you know, she's great. A lot of celebs that you write for don't want to come to the pitch. They're like, oh, you do it. And whenever we sell it, I'll show up. She came to every pitch, participates, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, but it feels to me that she, you know, with the, you know, with the death of her ex husband and bringing up the kid, like, it feels like she had other priorities for a while. And now she must be ready to go.

[Carol Leifer]

She is. And I don't know if you saw or watched Hot in Cleveland and one day at a time. She's a pro. She knows how to get her laughs. And that's another great thing when you develop for someone who knows comedy, it just makes it that much easier.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like TV pros.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And there's not a ton of them of that generation anymore that know how to do, like, situation comedy.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's a very specific thing.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Especially in front of a live audience.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's an interesting thing because, you know, you can't, like, you know, on some level, it's a conceit. Right. That the situation comedy, half hour situation comedy is a joke delivery that has to have this story, but the characters have to be so defined that they seem natural. And it's tricky to pull that off. It's a real balance.

[Carol Leifer]

Absolutely. But, you know, they're looking for. I wanted to write a multicam because coming up from Seinfeld and, you know, that era, I am a big lover of that format still. So they're looking for that. But, you know, it's great because I don't know if you've seen Mid Century Modern.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, no, I hear people love it.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. And it's in front of a live audience. And I mean, Nathan Lane, you know, getting his laughs the best.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. He's just the king of hams. Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

The whole ensemble is great. So to work with someone like that is such a joy.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know that I've watched one in a while. You know what? I just watched that. I was like, I just. I don't even know why I avoided it for so long. But someone somewhere.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

With Bridget Everett. Oh, my God.

[Carol Leifer]

Great show.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy good.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And she's so good.

[Marc Maron]

It's unreal. That character is like. And she's so fucking funny.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's not a three camera thing. It's like, you know, I don't know what you call that. Single cat, single cam. But it is so full of, like, deep humor and just so funny.

[Carol Leifer]

So good. I really want to see her live.

[Marc Maron]

Show because I knew nothing about her. I hear she's just like a powerhouse.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. I have so many friends that have gone to see her and blown away.

[Marc Maron]

It's like a cabaret show.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Carol Leifer]

So, you know, did you ever write.

[Marc Maron]

For anybody for that stuff, like for Bette Midler or anybody?

[Carol Leifer]

No, I haven't, I haven't because that.

[Marc Maron]

Was sort of a thing for a while.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That kind of performing and they're kind of funny.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. You know, I know that Bette Midler would use Bruce the Lant a lot.

[Marc Maron]

To write her stuff.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. So people always have their favorite people.

[Marc Maron]

Now, what's the next step for this Valerie Martinelli? Are you going to hammer out a pilot and then see what happens and then hire writers or are you gonna work with people?

[Carol Leifer]

You know, I think what we're gonna do, the next step is selling it to one of the. Through the studio.

[Marc Maron]

Selling it to one of the outlets as a pitch. Get the money, the development money to write a script.

[Carol Leifer]

Yes, I get it. Yeah. So we'll see where we land.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

I hope somebody listening.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, maybe.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. You know, to find the best outlet for this kind of multicam comedy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Carol Leifer]

But certainly there is a lot of interest.

[Marc Maron]

You're finding people want to do them again because they're price effective, they're cost effective.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah. And not only that, you know, it's multicams, but also I wouldn't go in to pitch something now without a piece of real talent because they want that too.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

If you just go in to pitch something and here's the multi game idea and you know, we'll get somebody to get it. Yeah. It's too hard. So to go in with a multicam and a proven talent like a Valerie Bertinelli.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Carol Leifer]

That made it very, very saleable.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Carol Leifer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Congratulations.

[Carol Leifer]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

It's great talking to you again.

[Carol Leifer]

Love talking to you, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

All right, well, I hope you do well with the book and the comedy and everything.

[Carol Leifer]

Thanks.

[Marc Maron]

There you go. That was nice. I like seeing Carol. She's great. Her book, how to Write a Funny Speech is available now. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hang out, people. We love la, and I'm saying we because I already love it. And I know that when you visit here, you'll love it too. Whether you're looking for the best taco trucks or a standout Michelin star restaurant, LA's got you covered. I just went down to Joy on York in my old neighborhood of Highland park, which I love, for the authentic Taiwanese food. You can go to Bodmash up on Fairfax across from Cantor's, kind of hot rotted Indian food. Or go to Cantor's. I actually go now for a vegan Reuben. And of course LA is known for entertainment, but this place is also a world class hub of art, music, museums and live theater. Check out the European art collection at the Getty Center. Go to hear the LA Philharmonic at the Walt Disney Concert Hall. And you can also come here and do all those LA things you've heard about. Go to Universal Studios, check out the Griffith Park Observatory, see the view from Mulholland Drive, check out the Hollywood sign. You can't pass up all the classic LA stuff. Find more ways to love Los Angeles at discoverla.com hey. This week for full Marin listeners, I went even further into the behind the scenes details of my HBO special taping. And heading into it, I had no stress about the material. I knew I was loaded up. I knew the shit worked, you know, like, there was nothing that I was like, this might not land, you know, but I found from you in the past, you've been stressed out at cutting it down. Like that was definitely the case for the last two specials at least. Yeah. But oddly, when it, when it comes down to the Wire, I fucking land on the fucking mark. Yeah. And you didn't, you didn't fret about it at all. Like, I didn't hear you once say, like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I don't know how I'm gonna get this in, in 70 minutes. And you said that a lot. Like during, especially the last one, From Bleak to Dark. I remember you saying that a lot, that you were concerned, you just had too much and you weren't gonna get it down right. But you know, oddly, you know, I, Maybe it's from radio experience, maybe it's just from me, you know, because I choose, you know, to do a full hour that's loaded up. You know, it's, you know, there's. The last three have been, you know, very full, you know, almost too full. Like, you know, I could cut 20 minutes off of this thing and do an hour. I knew from the last week or so of shows like the ones I did in Toronto and then the three at the club in Vermont, which is a smaller room. Like, I definitely was like, just do the shit. Just do what you're going to do with the special. Don't, you know, don't go off so you can say to yourself afterwards, well, I don't know. Because I decided to riff or whatever. I was like, just do it. Even if the response is stilted because you're locked in, just fucking do the work and take the hit. So you know going in that you're within the time frame. So I wasn't worried about that. You can hear that bonus episode along with other bonus episodes we post twice a week as part of the full Marin. To sign up, go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by Acast and I slowed down a classic kind of. I rethunk a classic. For me, it's a classic. I took the edge off it. Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels Everywhere.