Episode 1646 - Nick Kroll

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast – Episode 1646: Nick Kroll

In Episode 1646 of "WTF with Marc Maron," Marc Maron welcomes comedian and actor Nick Kroll for a deeply engaging and heartfelt conversation. This marks Kroll's sixth solo appearance on the show, where he delves into his career, personal life, and his perspectives on comedy and mental health.

---

Introduction and Career Highlights

Marc Maron opens the episode by reminiscing about Nick Kroll's numerous appearances on the podcast, highlighting his versatility and enduring presence in the comedy scene. He praises Kroll's innate humor, stating:

“Nick Kroll, naturally, just innately, is really one of the funniest people around.”
[02:15]

Kroll discusses his recent projects, including the final season of the animated series "Big Mouth", now available on Netflix, and his new film "I Don't Understand You", set to premiere on June 6th, 2025. He also teases upcoming animated projects like "Mating Season" and "Adults", which explores the lives of twenty-somethings in New York City.

Personal Life and Reflections

A significant portion of the conversation shifts to personal matters, with Marc sharing the somber news about his father's passing and the arrangements he made for his funeral:

“These are the kind of texts you get after a certain point from my dad's wife... I signed the paperwork and payment today.”
[15:27]

Kroll opens up about the recent loss of his grandmother at nearly 101 years old, recounting their last conversation and the poignant moments surrounding her passing:

“She was incredibly sharp, so fucking smart her whole life... She just died.”
[21:09]

They discuss the emotional impact of losing loved ones and the rituals surrounding death, such as green burials and the symbolism of hawks appearing during times of loss.

Mental Health and Therapeutic Practices

Both Marc and Nick delve into their struggles with mental health, discussing therapy, anxiety, and the use of medications. Kroll shares his experiences with various therapeutic methods, including controlled ketamine trips and ayahuasca ceremonies:

“I now see a multitude of therapists. Really? Yeah, like for... I have a therapist who looks like Franny McDormand.”
[36:48]

Marc talks about his anxiety and his cautious approach to SSRIs, explaining his reluctance to let medication cloud his emotions:

“I went to a psychiatrist to get evaluated, and I said, I'm not comfortable with the SSRIs...”
[39:20]

Comedy Philosophy and Style

The duo explores the nuances of comedy, particularly the balance between personal vulnerability and comedic delivery. Kroll emphasizes the importance of originality and the challenge of pushing comedic boundaries:

“There's something comedically genius in a way that... completely unique and inspired.”
[10:30]

They also reminisce about past comedic collaborations and the evolution of their styles over the years.

Relationships and Friendships

Nick reflects on his long-standing friendship with Marc and their shared history in the comedy world. They touch upon their interactions with mutual acquaintances like John Mulaney and discuss the complexities of maintaining close relationships amidst busy careers:

“We're just like, this is what you know... friends who eventually kind of become family in some weird way.”
[85:14]

Stand-Up and Future Aspirations

Kroll shares his aspirations to return to stand-up more frequently, discussing recent performances in New York and his plans for future tours and specials. Marc encourages him to continue honing his craft, highlighting the importance of live performance in their careers.

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Notable Quotes

• On Comedy Genius:

  “There is something comedically genius in a way that no one's ever seen before.”
  [05:30]

• On Personal Loss:

  “We're about to have a baby, so get the fuck off the planet.”
  [18:00]

• On Therapy:

  “I now see a multitude of therapists. Really? Yeah, like for... I have a therapist who looks like Franny McDormand.”
  [36:48]

• On Friendship:

  “We're just like, this is what you know... friends who eventually kind of become family in some weird way.”
  [85:14]

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Marc and Nick reflecting on their enduring friendship and the myriad challenges they've faced both personally and professionally. They encourage listeners to engage with Nick's latest projects and to continue supporting each other's creative endeavors.

Nick Kroll's candidness about his personal struggles, combined with his sharp comedic insights, offers listeners a comprehensive look into the life of one of comedy's most relatable and talented figures. Marc Maron's empathetic hosting ensures that the conversation remains both profound and entertaining, making this episode a standout in the series.

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Listen to Episode 1646 with Nick Kroll on WTF with Marc Maron

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Hey, folks, I've been a cat dad for a long time. Longer than I've been doing this show, in fact. And us cat dads, we don't always get a lot of attention. Maybe it's because people think we're just biding our time until we get a dog. But we're cat dads, and we're proud of it. And one way we get big attention from our cats is when we've got treats for them. That's why temptations, America's number one cat treat brand, is calling 2025 the year of the cat dad. They're celebrating all the guys who are loved by their furry companions, especially when they've got a pocket full of temptations. Ready to go? Show some love to the cat dad in your life and tag your fave with hashtag cat dad sighting. Give some love to cat dads everywhere. Yes. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the. I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Today I talked to Nick Kroll. Now, Nick has been on a lot. This is the sixth time he's been on the show by himself. On episode 12. That's a long time ago. With John Mulaney on episode 743, and as El Chupacabra on three other occasions. And those are rare because I doubt that you could really do that character anymore. He's in the new film I don't understand you'd. And the final season of Big Mouth is now streaming on Netflix. And Nick, I guess, you know, I have to kind of give credit where credit is due, and I think I do usually. But it's a. It's an interesting thing. As a comic or as someone who is me when. When I really think people are funny, it is such an exciting thing for me and forever. I believe, and I still believe this to this day, that Nick Kroll, naturally, just innately, is really one of the funniest people around. And, you know, I think I kind of tell him that to his face. I don't know. Did I? Maybe I'm a little. Maybe I hold back a little bit. But truly a very funny, gifted, overly talented person. How could I just make being talented kind of a slight. He's overly talented, but I get a big kick out of him. And it's always fun to talk to the guy. And in another way, I guess another thing that I kind of want to talk about because it seems to be kind of possessing me. Well, first I want to mention Brent Weinbach, who was on episode 839, has a new special out, new standup special. It's called Brent Weinbach Popular Culture. And you can watch that on YouTube right now. Now, Brent's a. He's a whole other ball of wax. I don't know if you know Brent, but that is a world of comedy where it's sort of. I don't know, I don't know how you would describe it. There is a school of comedy that it kind of moves through anti comedy and kind of hyper abstract comedy and just oddball ish comedy, but stuff that's challenging, maybe a little cringy, and for the most part in my life, not totally my cup of tea, really, I can appreciate it. And I know when it's done well. And, you know, I did have some moments when I watched that Andy Kaufman document that, you know, made me rethink it. Or maybe I'm. I'm older and I'm less stuck in my ways around, you know, what I think standup is or what I think comedy is. You know, I've. I've definitely broadened my mind. But I will say this, and the only reason I'm. I'm talking about it's not some sort of plug, but I'm surprised at my own experience and reaction to it because I've struggled with Nathan Fielder just as an artist for a while because there's something fundamentally about him that makes me uncomfortable. It's not that I don't like him. There's just certain people that make me uncomfortable. And it is part of his thing. I mean, he does either intentionally or just by being challenge you to reckon with him. And I've watched a few of his shows. I watched the first season of the Rehearsal. I watched the Curse, which I think was the beginning of my moment with Fielder, was the last episode of the Curse. I liked the first season of the Rehearsal. I thought it had all the elements of cringe and impact and humanity. But the last episode of the Curse, the thing he did with, I guess, who was it? Josh Safdie or Ben? Which one is it? One of those Safdies and Emma Stone. There is look rarely in a series, and I'm finding this more so than not, do I have the patience to get through it. And there have been some comedy series, but most series in general, once the premise is set up and then you're in it, and then after a few episodes of that, it's sort of like, all right, I get it now. What there's just a redundancy to it. And then they'll throw a new character in, which is clearly, you can tell, written in to keep the thing going. It just drags out. I'm not sure that anything really needs to be more than six episodes. In general, that aside, this new season of the rehearsal Nathan Fielder thing, I can't seem to shut up about it because it is so rare. And look, this is only my opinion, but it's so rare that there is something that is created that actually possesses true genius. I know this sounds. Why am I, you know, why am I talking about this? Because I really believe that there is something comedically genius in a way that I. That no one's ever seen before about this particular season of this show, the rehearsal, because I don't even know that I can explain it. But the fact that he is supported and given money to realize this completely unique and fucked up weird vision of exploring things is first a testament to HBO in terms of who they choose to support and produce and have and believe in. But where this show starts and where it ends up and the kind of thing where Fielder, who is kind of a mysterious guy and I don't know if he refuses to do this show, but he won't do it because I think he's got not so much a lot to hide, but a certain mystique to maintain. You know, I know that he started in Stand up as sort of an anti comic which always used to annoy me, but now over time, he has found this zone of his own comedy through these shows that is just completely unique, completely bizarre, completely uncomfortable and just utterly fucking inspired. And you gotta wait for it. But it's so rare that you're waiting for something to unfold and it's satisfying and kind of mind bending and just kind of like, what the fuck? This is crazy. And laughing. But boy, that. What is it? The third, maybe the third episode of this season of the rehearsal and all of them. He's exploring air safety. He kind of got. He nerded out on. He obsessively researched an issue, a very specific issue in air safety, which is that a lot of airline crashes were preceded by an argument or a lack of communication in the cockpit. So what he sets out to do at the beginning of this season of the rehearsal is try to solve that problem. You know, how do we get pilots and co pilots communicating more openly so you don't have this sort of ego issue of someone deciding not to do something that the copilot may suggest. How do you open up the lines of communication. So there's other thoughts in moments of crisis that aren't. That are communicated in the cockpit. That is the premise of this show. And from there, you just move through some of Nathan's experiences in trying to get shows made and getting shows sort of taken off servers. You kind of deal with some of his own, what you'd assume psychological problems are. And then he, through the course of unfolding this system or experiment to try to get pilots communicating better, you know, you see a lot of elements of him trying to be resolved. So, you know, he is actually changing through. You know, him as himself, I assume as himself is changing through this thing. And then his comedy chops, which are very intentional. Cause you can't produce a show like this. There's a lot of improv and a lot of actors brought in. There's a talent show element. But through the course of him trying to resolve this air safety problem, he's reckoning with himself, his past, you know, his creativity, his job, his neurological disposition. It ultimately becomes all about him. But the lengths he goes to get there, either intentionally or not, are fucking insane and inspired. And it's fucking. It's comedic genius. And I don't want to say that because I'm an insecure, jealous, resentful old fuck who is not always willing to give it up, but I got to give it up. And, you know, it might not be for you. He may not be for you, you know, but I think that you should force yourself to. To just let it happen, man. To just let it happen. Because there's a level of cringe comedy in there. It's just rare. Somebody pulls something out of their brain and. And then manifests it with a good amount of money that is completely original and inspired. And I think that if you want to talk about comedy as art, if you want to do that, which I am. I am wary to do generally, maybe you can talk about it cinematically, you know, as a comedy movie or whatever. But if you want to talk about comedy as art, an art in the broad sense of the word, where you're really just talking about freedom of expression and a commitment to a vision that is provocative and new, this is it. So there you go, Nathan. I didn't. It's not. I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, and I was reluctant to do it, but congratulations for the great mind bending, inspired work of genius that you've contributed to what is sort of a flailing period in comedy of all kinds. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and Life is easier for us thanks to Squarespace. That's because our website, wtfpod.com is a big part of what we do. And with Squarespace, we never have to worry about updates or bugs or not being able to post something that we want to post. Squarespace has it all covered. Plus, Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. You'll get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. And with blueprint AI, Squarespace helps you design a fully custom website in just a few steps. Check out squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. Trial. And then when you're all set to launch your new site, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF? Oh yeah, I did see another movie too. I went to see Friendship because again, in talking about comedy brilliance, Tim Robinson, I've, I've been brought around to him. He is a brilliant and inspired and gifted buffoon of a very specific type. A great clown. And that character that he plays, which seems to be the character he plays, is kind of spectacular. The idea of the completely narcissistic aggravated buffoon is pretty. It's relative to the time we live in there. You know, that is the strain of human disposition that is very prominent in the world we're living in now. So I think there is a reflection of that in him. And he's tremendously funny. And I think you should leave the show always. It just not unlike Fielder there, there's a zone that these guys get into.

[Nick Kroll]

Where.

[Marc Maron]

You can't, you know, you can't predict it, you can't figure it out, you don't know where it comes from, but it is pure comedy. So anyway, Nick Kroll is here. And again, one of my, my favorite funny people. The film he's in, I don't understand you comes out Friday, June 6th. The final season of Big Mouth is streaming on Netflix. You can watch all eight seasons there as well. And this is me and Nick Kroll. Okay, so I just gotta, I gotta. These are the kind of texts you get after a certain point from my dad's wife. Mark, your father's funeral arrangements are completed. I signed the paperwork and payment today. Thank you. We love you, dad. And Rosie, that's a load off.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Oh, good. Well, I mean, on some level, you're blessed in that there are a lot of people who. They or their partner are not capable of that.

[Marc Maron]

No. Yeah. And she was obsessing about it, and she was, like, coming up a little short, and I'm like, dude, it's my dad. I'll send you the money. I have no kids.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And this is the kind of things I want to pay for.

[Nick Kroll]

Chose not to have kids so I could pay for my dad's death.

[Marc Maron]

Not. And not worry about it. Yeah, just don't worry about it. Not take too big. You just take care. As long as I don't have to be there.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's the best part of this. Please just stay alive.

[Nick Kroll]

Just keep him. Keep it going. Hang in there. But when it comes and it will.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I'll be there. And it'll be all paid for.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, it'll be. I'll be there in money. I'll be there.

[Marc Maron]

And. Yeah, they have to ship him back to New Jersey. That's what he wants.

[Nick Kroll]

Really? Yeah, he wants to go get buried in Jersey. Is there a cemetery? Is there family cemetery?

[Marc Maron]

I guess. Yeah. By my grandparents out there down the shore. And I guess there's a few of them out there. His wife doesn't care. She's like, you know, once I'm gone, I don't care. You can just, you know, put me out with the trash.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, that's nice.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Well, that's what we're doing.

[Nick Kroll]

Does that go into compost?

[Marc Maron]

If they have that now, dude.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's nuts.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You can literally just go get a. You can go get compost.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Mushroom sack.

[Marc Maron]

But it's crazy. Like, it's. Because they show it. Like, they have a whole process where, you know, you literally. They let you decay and then they grind you up into soil.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, wow. It's like grinding.

[Marc Maron]

It's.

[Nick Kroll]

I thought I in my mind was like, you're in a mushroom, like, body sack.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they have that too.

[Nick Kroll]

The fungus, like, starts to help break you down.

[Marc Maron]

That's green burial. Yeah. And I don't think they. They just put the body and let that do it.

[Nick Kroll]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

But there is a place where grinding.

[Nick Kroll]

Is where that's really what I. Why is that any worse than tough for me?

[Marc Maron]

Why is it any worse than burning? I mean, but.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, sure.

[Marc Maron]

But I mean, I think there is a place where, I don't know if you. You get your loved one available in a package of potting soil, like, you know, it's not an urn. You can just. You have a pot.

[Nick Kroll]

Here's some start to start to let them.

[Marc Maron]

That would be the best, right? I guess so. So I don't know. I. But yeah, he's going to go back to Jersey. My. My grandparents, my other grandparents buried in Jersey. I'm not even sure where they are. My mother, you do you.

[Nick Kroll]

Well, you're like, I must be.

[Marc Maron]

I've been there. No, no, I've been through the. It's over. Elizabeth, New Jersey, next to a Budweiser factory. The fucking worst industrial part of town. This little Jewish cemetery tucked away with all the sagging graves. Because the pine box idea, it's like, well, you're gonna have to fill in once it falls into the hole. You got fill in the top a little bit with your pine box.

[Nick Kroll]

That's not what they paid for. They got a good deal. They got a good deal on the pine box.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, the older ones are the ones that literally have about a 4 inch to 10 inch SAG.

[Nick Kroll]

That might be nice to like go rest in.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Nick Kroll]

Put a rock.

[Marc Maron]

Put a rock.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. You want one, right?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Are all your people still alive? Anyone know?

[Nick Kroll]

My grand. All my grandparents are dead now. My. My grand. My lost my last grandmother at almost right on my birthday.

[Marc Maron]

Happy birthday.

[Nick Kroll]

Thank you. That was it. It was the week. It was a crazy. It's a crazy week. She was almost. She was 100, 101 years. Almost 101 years old. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Which.

[Nick Kroll]

Who's, who's, who's my mom's mom. 100, 100, almost 101 years old. Her first memory is remembering hearing like a horse drawn ambulance in Brooklyn in like. Wow, 1921.

[Marc Maron]

So they were first generation immigrants.

[Nick Kroll]

She was, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Her.

[Nick Kroll]

No, her parents. Her parents, yes, she was first generation, but like.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. My great grandparents were born, what, 1900. So she was born 1900.

[Nick Kroll]

19. 19. 19 19.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's amazing.

[Nick Kroll]

And then she died. So it was, it was a. Right around this time five years ago, the height of the pandemic.

[Marc Maron]

When's your birthday?

[Nick Kroll]

June 5th.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, coming up.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What are you, 70?

[Nick Kroll]

I'm 71 years old, but I.

[Marc Maron]

So it was right around this time.

[Nick Kroll]

It was right around this time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

My now wife Lily and I got, we got pregnant in the height of the pandemic. It was like a full mating in captivity.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, just talk to someone else who did that.

[Nick Kroll]

And found out on her birthday, May 29, that she was. That we were pregnant. It was also the weekend of The George Floyd murder and the insanity of that weekend was the weekend we found out that we were having kids.

[Marc Maron]

So excitement and. Oh.

[Nick Kroll]

And then like. Yeah, like, helicopter. Remember how many helicopters there were? It was just such. And then Trump, you know, did the Bible upside. The. Upside down, backwards Bible.

[Marc Maron]

Satanic signaling. If you cross reference Revelation and the Nostradamus. The upside down Bible. That was the beginning of it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. It's so funny to think of Nostradamus being like, not even wanting to pitch Trump. Yeah, it's a bummer. It's hacky and it's a bummer. I'm not going to do it. So then that Monday, I find out that my grandmother's on her deathbed.

[Marc Maron]

But you were like, okay, I wasn't like, what?

[Nick Kroll]

I was like, how she just turned 100.

[Marc Maron]

This can't be happening.

[Nick Kroll]

This can't be happening. I talked to her three months ago.

[Marc Maron]

For two minutes.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And she was actually incredibly, amazingly sharp. So fucking smart her whole life. And such an interesting person. And then. So we told her my brother went to visit on their death again. It was that Covid time or nobody was anywhere. They were in Westchester. And my brother brought us FaceTimed. Me with her as she was like, you know, just like, lying in bed, faintly breathing. And we told. She was the first person that we told that we were pregnant. And it was really kind of an amazing.

[Marc Maron]

And it got through.

[Nick Kroll]

I mean. Yeah. Yeah, we told her. I go, we're about to have a baby, so get the fuck off the planet.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you've been replaced. It's. You can go, we got a new one.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And then. And then that was on, like, Wednesday and Friday was my birthday.

[Marc Maron]

And you didn't fly out. Couldn't fly.

[Nick Kroll]

She died. Yeah, no, it was too early.

[Marc Maron]

It wasn't co.

[Nick Kroll]

It was super co. And she. She died that Friday. She died on my birthday.

[Marc Maron]

Not from COVID Not from COVID Oh, that's good.

[Nick Kroll]

Syphilis. Wow.

[Marc Maron]

She really was still pretty. She was staying after 100%.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Her mind was in a good place.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, her mind was in a great place. No. Yeah. She just died. Anyway.

[Marc Maron]

So that was that one.

[Nick Kroll]

That was that one. That was that week. That's my birthday. And every year there was a hawk that landed on her porch, like the week. The week that she was dying. That was live in the community, but, like, landed and just sat on her porch for like a day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. When she died.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, it was like the two days she died.

[Marc Maron]

And then the birds know, man.

[Nick Kroll]

The birds know I have.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I did a whole bit about that after Lyn died, that the birds were kind of like hanging around.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I don't know what it is. I think if you're gonna pick an animal to represent the spirit of a person, make it a fucking bird.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? You know when it's like that dog.

[Nick Kroll]

Across the street, that fucking idiot dog.

[Marc Maron]

That's my ex. That's my lady partner.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Just keeps eating his own shit.

[Marc Maron]

She was so like that.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. That's what she was. And then last year on my birthday, I was at my house and there are hawks that live around us. And this fucking hawk that never comes to our house flew like 10ft over my house for like a half an hour.

[Marc Maron]

And you were like, grandma.

[Nick Kroll]

I was like, grandma, my birthday. And most importantly, the Trump Bible.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. And I'm sorry about the Floyd thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Let me ask you a question about a Jewish question. Cause I'm really trying to source this out. So I had Modi on.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it was exciting. He's an exciting fellow.

[Nick Kroll]

Indeed.

[Marc Maron]

And I'm happy for his success because God knows he earned it. He's very Jewish.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And very Israeli and very, you know. You know, he talks a lot about Moshaik energy.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, the Modi thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. I was just listening on the way here. I was getting ready.

[Marc Maron]

So, you know, he goes, it was fine. He gave me a hat. The Moshiach energy hat.

[Nick Kroll]

Mazel.

[Marc Maron]

And about a week later, I get a package. And in the package there's a framed item. And before I unwrap the item, I read the card and it says, mark, I'd like to do it as Modi. I couldn't help but notice when I left your house, I saw there was no mezuzah outside. So I got you this. And it's a framed Shema. It's like. It's the mezuzah scroll in a frame.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, okay. So it's not. Okay. Not the mezuzah itself for the.

[Marc Maron]

But here's how I read it. I'm like, this is complicated. It's guilt driven.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you shitty Jew, are you afraid to represent by showing a mezuzah outside of your house? If that's the case, you shitty Jew, maybe you could put this inside the door.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Am I misreading that?

[Nick Kroll]

I mean, I think that's a mild way of putting it.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad guy or anything. I thought it was brilliant at sort of ancient Jewish guilt.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

How could you, you cowardly fuck. Why isn't there a mezuzah? Why don't you want the world to know where to come get you?

[Nick Kroll]

But as compromised, because I know how weak willed you are. Let me give you something that you print out. You put it inside. Nobody knows, but it's there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. So you get the protection that you don't deserve.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Which is, I feel like a little bit of a conversation about what Israel and American Jews are.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Elijah will have to come all the way in to realize he's at the right house.

[Nick Kroll]

He'll come and sit inside and he'll.

[Marc Maron]

See it and he'll be like, all right, it's okay. He didn't have it outside. But. But what? Like, let's, let's get this out of the way because I. How do you feel about this movie?

[Nick Kroll]

I don't understand you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

How do I feel about it? I like the movie a lot. How do you feel about this movie?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I watched it and I don't know if I'm the right audience. First of all, I'm not a horror.

[Nick Kroll]

All right. Can we use that for the poster? I know it might be a little late.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know if I'm the right audience. Marc Maron.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. All right, we'll take it.

[Marc Maron]

No, because like. Well, here's my experience. Cause I know like, I'm not a horror guy. Nor am I. I would put this in the horror comedy genre. Right. Is that what it is?

[Nick Kroll]

I think that's a fair way to talk about it.

[Marc Maron]

Ok.

[Nick Kroll]

But yeah, it's a horror comedy drama. It's like a little. And. But with like a farce. I mean, I guess the com. That would fall into the comedy portion of it.

[Marc Maron]

Farce. Yes, that's the word I want.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because I think you got to know that going in.

[Nick Kroll]

Uh huh. Right.

[Marc Maron]

I really think it's important.

[Nick Kroll]

Right. Well, that's the. That's what's been interesting about sort of either promoting it and how they're promoting it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Like, because I. Yeah, because I think it is. It's been interesting hearing people be like, no, they need. Audiences need to know what they're going to getting.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because I didn't know anything about it.

[Nick Kroll]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And so like you just thought you.

[Nick Kroll]

Were watching like a rom comy kind of thing with me and. Me and Andrew Rannell.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like it's like a gay rom comi thing. And this is good. This is not really a stretch for Nick. But finally.

[Nick Kroll]

Can we use that for the pull quote for the poster?

[Marc Maron]

Not really a stretch for Cole, but finally. Yeah, yeah, he's free.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, let me know.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, so I'm watching it, and I'm like, all right, so, well, this is cute. And then I text my producer. I'm like, what am I watching? Is this like. He goes, I think something happens.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, there you go. And then maybe that should have just been the trailer.

[Marc Maron]

I think something.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And then. And so then what happened? And then something happened.

[Marc Maron]

But here's my whole thing is, like the arc of the thing. Like, I know it's a style and the sort of attitudes that you two have, sort of self involved. Only thinking about the baby on your anniversary trip to Italy, and this. This farce occurs, you know, like, I didn't. I didn't really know the framework, but obviously, you know, once, you know, the. The first accident happens. Yeah. We're in a different zone.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And then the.

[Nick Kroll]

And then we live in that other zone.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. But, like, after. After all is said and done, you know, there's part of me that still wants to frame it as just a. A regular movie.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And then. And when you look at it in that light, it's like, those guys just got away with it. Yeah. And now they're just. They're happy parents.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Maybe that should have been the pull cord. Those guys just got away with it. Now they're happy parents. You're like, great. So we don't need to.

[Marc Maron]

Great.

[Nick Kroll]

We don't need to watch it. We know what happened, But I hear you. And it was an interesting. In that. To do it that way was. How would I explain this? Let me.

[Marc Maron]

Why'd you take the movie?

[Nick Kroll]

I took. Well, I took the movie because I love Andrew Rannells. He and I know each other. Great guy. Great guy. Unbelievably talented.

[Marc Maron]

So funny.

[Nick Kroll]

So funny. And we worked together a bunch. He's been on Big Mouth since the beginning. And David and Brian, who directed the movie, I knew a little bit. And it's really based on their story. It's based on both of them both trying to adopt a baby and getting, like, scammed originally and then finally being able to adopt their son who's in the film.

[Marc Maron]

That's a side note.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Like, you know, I think. I guess I was expecting that movie.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. Exactly. And then they had a nightmare vacation to Italy, which then they combined and be like, oh, we're dealing with this thing. And then we have this true nightmare vacation in Italy, which is like, Them getting stuck in a ditch like we do, you know, in the end just like everything falling apart and then they heighten it with combining them into one thing. So I took the movie because I. I knew them and I liked all of them and it's. It just seemed fun.

[Marc Maron]

And got you to Italy and it.

[Nick Kroll]

Was like, I'll go to Rome. And my wife and I, Lily and I were like, we'll go to Rome.

[Marc Maron]

Have you been there?

[Nick Kroll]

I've been there, yeah. I've been there over the years, a good amount of times. And so it's like, oh my God. Like in your mind when you're a kid or when you're starting, you're like, maybe one day I'll get to make a movie and like live in Italy and like, do like, just be talented. Ms. Ripley just.

[Marc Maron]

Did you do that? How long were you there?

[Nick Kroll]

So we were in Rome for like six weeks.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Nick Kroll]

It was great. However, we had just gotten pregnant with our second kid. Oh.

[Marc Maron]

Who died.

[Nick Kroll]

And some dog in the neighborhood, sort.

[Marc Maron]

Of, you know, the one that ate his own shit. There's a sign.

[Nick Kroll]

No, we. So. And we were. And my son was like, not around 2 and he was like. So we got to Rome, we left.

[Marc Maron]

It's a hard trip with a.

[Nick Kroll]

It was. It was like a two year old. And we had, you know, and I was working nights. It's so much the movies at night.

[Marc Maron]

I know. What a fucking nightmare. So you gotta sleep all day.

[Nick Kroll]

So. Yeah. And it was like 45 minutes outside of Rome and it was just like wet. And I was wet the whole time. And then I'd come home at five in the morning after a night shoot for a month. I'd sleep for like two hours. And then my son would wake up and like was two and was had. Was done with our nanny and was revolting on all levels. And so I would sleep for like another hour and then I'd go. But then I'd go to the park with them and Via Borghese. Do you know that. Have you been to spend time in Rome at all?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, once.

[Nick Kroll]

It's. It's fucking decent. It's fine. I actually don't. I'm like, it's fine.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just sold it to my producers going. I'm like, it lives up to your expectations.

[Nick Kroll]

Rome does.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Like, if you've never been there and you go there, you're like, holy shit.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Like all the art, all the architecture, all that stuff.

[Nick Kroll]

How long are you there for?

[Marc Maron]

Three days.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, you go In. Get it done.

[Marc Maron]

You have the nice food.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You walk around. But after that, there's the fountain, the sounds.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's great. The Pope's house. Did you go to the Vatican?

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Nick Kroll]

Did you? Not this time. I've been before and I was literally working the whole time. I. We were living right. We were living like right near the Spanish Steps, like in that. Where it's like Times Square.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And it was a beautiful place. We had a really gorgeous place to live at the top. It was really amazing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But it was like the busker started at like 7:30am with the boomboxes? No. With like electric violins playing. Coldplay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

It's the worst one. You like. It's incredible how quickly sound can destroy a vacation.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. You know, you're just like, no, no. And it really did so. But I, I mean, I, I. Rome is beautiful and, and a wonderful place, but it was not what I had, what I had envisioned in my head of what this was going to be.

[Marc Maron]

The romantic idea of shooting a film in Rome.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. With my, like, wife. And we were gonna, like, travel and we did do some cool.

[Marc Maron]

But it just was 2 year old. How pregnant was she?

[Nick Kroll]

She was like in her first trimester, so it was just the time. But it was not a. It was like the, you know, it was a tough. It was a.

[Marc Maron]

But like, I know anything. Oh. First try.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, not a problem. Never had a kid.

[Nick Kroll]

You haven't had a kid?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Nick Kroll]

Physically, you've never had a kid?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Nick Kroll]

It's not too late, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

That's what I hear. But I think it's too late for me to.

[Nick Kroll]

When did you decide that you didn't want to have a kid? Or did you decide.

[Marc Maron]

You know. I think the decision happened when. Here's what it really was. I'm not against kids, but the truth be told, I never once thought about having one.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

That was really it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's great. And when I was married the first time and she all of a sudden, you know, with no knowledge that I had. No knowledge. She was taking prenatal vitamins. I'm like, I gotta get out of this. So.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I have nothing against children, but I feel like I'm fundamentally too selfish.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And too panicky and too. I can't trust my emotions.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

So like, you know, all of it, but the fact that I never once thought.

[Nick Kroll]

Considered it. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

In any real way.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good call. I think that works. That works for you. And. And it's better for your unborn offspring.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. My brother's got three. He. He's got. He adopted three over time. And, like, even. Even when I see people with kids, even when people tell me, like, you know, it really is something. It changed your life. The whole sort of, like, cult of children propaganda, which is real.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

I'm like, yeah, still not moving me.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. I have 12 niece and nephews, and I. Before I had kids, I was like, I'm good for right now. I kind of in my head, because it's so much a part of the family that I was like, I assume I'll have kids. But I was not. Until I did it. I was not like, oh, my God, I'm itching to have children.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Nick Kroll]

And then I did it. And it's been amazing. But it. But also, it is like, I am for people who are, like, who have not had kids. I'm not like, oh, my God, you. You must have children.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think it does round you out.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. Yes. It's a more complete life for me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And I think that, you know, my. I think my fear is in. In that how I grew up emotionally, that I don't know that I could necessarily protect my kids from that, from, you know, lack of boundaries over, you know, worrying. I was brought up. It wasn't love as much as it was panic. Sure.

[Nick Kroll]

Well, it's love. Love. Mast is panic or panic Mast.

[Marc Maron]

No, I think, yeah, it was just straight panic. It was just worry and like, you know, everybody. We were just appendages.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Of very selfish people.

[Nick Kroll]

Save that. Save that for the funeral marks. Save that. Save that for the zoom eulogy that.

[Marc Maron]

You said that you deliver to my dad's wife. Like, I just want to pitch some ideas for my eulogy. Appendages of a narcissist. No, but I just. I think the panic and the worry. Like, I have this anxiety problem anyways. I don't know how that wouldn't translate.

[Nick Kroll]

It would heighten whatever happens when you have children, it just becomes a mirror, and it heightens and magnifies whatever your shit is. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're pretty well grounded, guy. I think emotionally, I like to.

[Nick Kroll]

I think so most of the time. But I think having children has made me understand a very different element of myself that I have, I think, subjugated for my whole life.

[Marc Maron]

That you just had stuff down.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, just, like, anger and things like that. Like, real rage.

[Marc Maron]

Really.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or just because I see it in my small child who's just like an amazing creature. Little person.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Who is deeply and openly emotional in a way that I am. Have. I'm uncomfortable with.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. That's why you. You mask it with your funniness.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

It's like, let's deflect and move it this way at all times. And then this.

[Marc Maron]

He's just like wide open. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And it. And then it makes me rageful that. That it was happening, but not at.

[Marc Maron]

Him, just in general.

[Nick Kroll]

Well, sort of in general, but I was like that I, you know, that I would, like, raise my voice with him in a way that I haven't raised my voice with anyone.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Like, that feels great. That's like real.

[Marc Maron]

So what'd you do about that?

[Nick Kroll]

I told he. He learned to fucking shut his mouth.

[Marc Maron]

He's a frightened kid now. He does not express himself anymore. And that's the way I wanted it.

[Nick Kroll]

I shut it down and I'm happy about it. We're all. We're very comfortable now.

[Marc Maron]

Did you have to, like, go to get help?

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, always I have. I'm seeing. I used to have a joke. I got to talk to my therapists.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And like. And I'm now like. I now see a multitude of therapists. Really? Yeah, like for. I have a therapist. Therapist who looks like Franny McDormand.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Nick Kroll]

Which is awesome. Solid. Yeah. Solid person. And then I talk therapist. Talk therapist.

[Marc Maron]

Then you have a psychiatrist?

[Nick Kroll]

No, I don't have a psychiatrist.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you just have another therapist.

[Nick Kroll]

I mean, I gotta, I gotta. I got a guy on the side.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure, sure. If I need something.

[Nick Kroll]

I need something going on the road and I need to, you know, stay awake or whatever. Yeah. Stay up and do something or then take the edge off. I got a psychiatrist for that.

[Marc Maron]

You got a Dr. Nick?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I got a special doctor. Yeah, he. And then I've got, you know, marriage, couple stuff that we talk to someone. Oh, yeah. And then like a parenting therapist who we talk to about our kids and how. How to talk talk.

[Marc Maron]

It's interesting. With all these therapists, where do you find time for the children?

[Nick Kroll]

Well, they said, well, we cross over in the lobby in the waiting room when they're seeing their therapist at two. Yeah. We say hi. We sort of like, we acknowledge each other. You know, we all know we're all seeing someone and then they go in for their session.

[Marc Maron]

But you find that because I over therapized. No, I mean, I, like, I. I think it's a luxury, but it's oh, it's a deep luxury, and it's not a. It's not a bad thing. But I have found, like, I just started going again recently because I decided in my life.

[Nick Kroll]

But everything seemed fine. Mark.

[Marc Maron]

That's what Mulaney said. Like, I did his show. He was running shit at Largo, and I talked about, like, finally, you know, getting on some medication, and Malenia gets out, there goes, Wait. This is the first time Mark decided to try medication. We've all been going through his life all this, and he's never.

[Nick Kroll]

He never even gave us the opportunity to get himself on meds.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, I did a little bit way back, you know, but not for long. But the. The anxiety thing was starting to become kind of debilitating. Well, just sort of like, what, you know, is this normal? Like, for some reason, my insistence that secretly everyone is exactly like me, that I'm going to speak to you as if you're hiding me inside of you.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. Almost as if they're an appendage to your narcissism.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, sure.

[Marc Maron]

And I think I finally realized, like, no, dude, they're laughing at you. You. They're not laughing with you. Which is fine.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure, yeah, we'll take it.

[Marc Maron]

Of course. But. But I. But it's funny. I'm doing a bit on my show about that because I. I. In the special, I just shot about. About my feelings about SSRIs, because I'm. I'm weird about them, and I know they work for people.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

But for me, I just don't want to be. You know, I don't want it to. To cloud my. Whatever.

[Nick Kroll]

Of course, of course.

[Marc Maron]

But. But I went to a psychiatrist to get evaluated, and I said, I'm not comfortable with the SSRIs, because it's just me. I know they work. I have to keep saying that because anytime I bring up my aversion to SSRIs, I get emails from people going, like, you know, it's really negative. But he suggested this other medication. He said it's a more focused dopamine thing, and it's primarily for you have obsessional anxiety, and it's for that. And then he says it generally doesn't work for people. I'm like, that sounds like the right drug for me.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I'll take. I'll take that one.

[Marc Maron]

The one that doesn't work.

[Nick Kroll]

I'll do that in a medium. And, you know, dude, let's just do four of them. Let me get out of here.

[Marc Maron]

I think it might be working a Little bit, yeah. I went back to him for a reeval and he said, I think we're at 30% and we're looking for 50. I'm like, great. He says, why don't you take a little more? I'm like, no problem, but we'll see.

[Nick Kroll]

Have you felt the side. Have you felt the cloudiness at all or anything?

[Marc Maron]

No, no, it doesn't have that one. It may be a little bit dizzy thing, but no, I haven't felt that. You know, that detachment. But I do think it's stopping some of the ruminating.

[Nick Kroll]

The question on everybody's mind, is it stopping those rock hard boners?

[Marc Maron]

No, that's the other thing. It's funny. I have this shrink who I won't do zoom. Like, I'm like, I'm going in person. I want to sit on the couch. I want to judge a guy. Yeah. I want to know, where is he?

[Nick Kroll]

I want to be on equal standing here with you.

[Marc Maron]

But when I went to get the rechecked, you know, just last week, he's like, well, the only other alternative is the Prozac or something. And then he literally says. He goes, but that has the sexual side effects. With an intention like. Well, I don't.

[Nick Kroll]

He leaned in on that one in person. You could really feel him.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly. But there's part of me that thinks, like, I think I'm done with that too.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. In general. In general, yeah. Maybe the anxiety, maybe it's all connected.

[Marc Maron]

Let's just get rid of the hard ons and get rid of the anxiety. Maybe I can enjoy life.

[Nick Kroll]

Put it on.

[Marc Maron]

Those are my two big problems. My dick and my panic.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They're tied together.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I was gonna say they're absolutely not tied. There's no connection between the two. Of course.

[Marc Maron]

So we'll see.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Are you on medicine?

[Nick Kroll]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Fucking pussy.

[Nick Kroll]

I am. I've thought about it at times.

[Marc Maron]

For what?

[Nick Kroll]

For more like ADHD stuff. I can't.

[Marc Maron]

Like, people say I have that. I don't think I have that.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, people have given you that.

[Marc Maron]

I think they say I have it. But the doctor and say have he said obsessional anxiety.

[Nick Kroll]

I tried it over the years. I tried to get it over the years since like high school and all my friends were on like Ritalin and Adderall, like.

[Marc Maron]

So you wanted it?

[Nick Kroll]

I wanted it, yeah. Because I wanted it because I wanted it in college to study, and I wanted it because it would like, you know, it was just a upper.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But I didn't have. I was not overly drawn to it at any point or, like, coke or any of that stuff. It just didn't. It was not a. Yeah, so I.

[Marc Maron]

Or you're a good boy, Nick.

[Nick Kroll]

Well, but I'm. I'm functionally. Not in many other ways, but, like, the big. The big ticket items were not, like, none of that stuff ever was that interesting to me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

So medication? No, but I do. Yeah, I definitely. I mean, I do. Like, not much, but like, plant medicine.

[Marc Maron]

Like what?

[Nick Kroll]

Like, you know, microdose. Microdosed a little bit, and that never grabbed me either. But like, you know, mushrooms and like, ayahuasca and all that stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Stuff you do ayahuasca, huh?

[Nick Kroll]

Not. No, not like. No, not on daily. Well, because we are. Whatever you're doing, we are who we are, and we have to continue dealing with. There's no silver bullet for any of it.

[Marc Maron]

But I think that's the trick.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think that if you can get yourself some space to, you know, accurately assess yourself, like, if you get some separation from the symptom and you can sort of stand beside it and go, like, all right, I can see that.

[Nick Kroll]

Well, and I think the. The psychedelics are a shorthand for that. It's like a little bit of a. Like Cliff Notes to get in there faster than doing the actual.

[Marc Maron]

But what's. What's. Because, like, you know, I'm sober, so, like. Yeah, any. Anything that hints at. Sure. That type of drug, which is unregulated or unprescribed.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

You know, that's a slippery slope.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes, of course.

[Marc Maron]

But the microdose, like, when you took that. What'd you feel?

[Nick Kroll]

Microdose. Not much. I never did a regular microdose of acid or mushrooms, and that didn't grab me so much. Although I'm sure it would be interesting because I do find a certain. Certain focus in. In using those kinds of things in a way that are helpful, can be helpful, but it never. That didn't grab me. I did do, like the. I did ketamine at Cedar Sinai.

[Marc Maron]

You did the academy where you sit there with the iv.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I did that for what I did. For just like, trying to. Trying to get a better sense of what was going on in the world in your life. In world and life. It was like what I was talking about earlier of just like.

[Marc Maron]

That is. Controlled trip in a not fun environment.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes. Like, you're in an office and they lie you down in an easy chair and you get noise canceling headphones and. Or. Or I. I listen to music.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, they let you listen to music?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I listen to Emma Hoy, this, like, amazing, like, Ethiopian pianist.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

The Woman None. Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Have that record.

[Nick Kroll]

It's great. It's beautiful. And I find it very, like, meditative.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Good record.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

So listen to that. And they. And. And it was obviously controls like a Monday at like, 11:30. And it's a very weird time to go do that kind of thing.

[Marc Maron]

But, like. Does it just blow your mind?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, you go like. You're lying there and it's an IV, and then within 10 minutes, you start to, like, trip. And I was never interested in ketamine. People use it, like, recreationally. I was never interested in it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And. But this very controlled trip, all of a sudden, in 10 minutes, you start to, like, go like. Did you do acid and stuff before you got sober?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And like, you know that it happens. And then, like, they control it out and by the end of the hour, you're kind of like coming back up to reality and then.

[Marc Maron]

But do you disassociate? Do you, like, what goes on in your mind?

[Nick Kroll]

What.

[Marc Maron]

What did you learn?

[Nick Kroll]

I learned. I had. It's like. It's. Again, it's like a shorthand to whatever is going on. That's what I found about those psychedelics where it's just like. It's like, come on, man, let's fucking talk about this. You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Nick Kroll]

And it. And it jumps you, right?

[Marc Maron]

So the elf pops up.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, it's a dude. It's. It's. And it's.

[Marc Maron]

It's feral.

[Nick Kroll]

It's Will Ferrell as the elf and it's Krumholtz as the elf.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's better.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, it's Crumb. That's probably closer. It's probably Krumholtz coming into me from, like, the Santa Claus. Anyway, so Krumholtz is like.

[Marc Maron]

He is the. The Jew. On all of our shoulders, we all have a Krumholtz on our shoulder going.

[Nick Kroll]

What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, just do it. So. What are you doing? Just do it. So we. Anyway. But it does. It kind of really takes you right inside of it and then pops you out. But I did it once and it was a good experience. And then I did it again and I was running late and I was trying to get to my therapist after that. Like, I was going to see a therapist to process whatever we had just gone. Whatever I just gone through and. But I get out on a third street and I'm like, running late, and I'm still like. I'm like, I got him getting to an Uber, and I'm like, flip flopping my feet around because I'm still on drugs.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And it was not. I was like, this is not the right thing. This is not how this should be done.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And that was it. And I was like, I'm done with that now.

[Marc Maron]

But so now the ayahuasca thing. Now this is sort of a bougie, you know, group. You know, you go with.

[Nick Kroll]

It is. It can be.

[Marc Maron]

You do it with your wife.

[Nick Kroll]

I did it. I'll leave her out of it. But I. But. But, yeah, so we. I. We. I did it in a very. Again, like, there's the very, very bougie version of it where it's like some white shaman and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You know, the guy who used to be a barista.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, exactly. There's that version of it, and there are other versions of it that are much, I think, much more driven by people who are much more directly connected to the plant and to the experience of it in, like, you know, Central and South America. And so it was a very intentional kind of group, and it was a really interesting, weird group where there are those people who. You're like, this weird joke of a person. But then also, some fucking. Also people have experienced incredible trauma that they're trying to process and. And being all together for a very intense experience. But then. And the unpleasant parts are also part of the. You know, it's the thing when you do those kinds of experience where you're like, oh, it's all of it. Right.

[Marc Maron]

It's like, you know, vulnerability of puking and shitting yourself.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And it's like, the puking and shitting is there. It's a little bit. And. But it's also just like, people, like, really dealing with some fucking demons, you know?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And it's a very intense, but ultimately very, you know, complete experience.

[Marc Maron]

And was that beneficial?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, just like, really, Like, I was like, huh? Like, yeah, just sort of big things. Like, you go and thinking you're gonna be like, I'm gonna think about, you know, my relationship with my son or my marriage or whatever, and then something sort of, at least in all these experiences usually isn't that direct thing. It's like, oh, just a much deeper thought about, like, masculinity or how I connect.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Right now I was like, man, I can't separate toxic from masculinity. Yeah, but how do. How can one be a man right now? That feels true. To being like a man, but also with acknowledgment of where we are as a society.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Nick Kroll]

So it's like stuff like that where I'm like, that's cool. That's an interesting thing to sort of really grapple with in a way that I've never thought about.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I, I tried to do a joke about that. I think all men are on the, the spectrum of toxicity, that it's. It's a broad spectrum. It starts like insensitive to murder.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes. Yeah. But at the. At best. It's insensitive.

[Marc Maron]

At best. Yes.

[Nick Kroll]

So it was. And I was just like, you know, anyway, so I'm not a proponent one way or the other of it, but I found it. I enjoyed. I've enjoyed it in a. Found it very. I just feel like you, You. It's a shorthand to get to some deeper shit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think the last time I saw you was at the art. The gallery opening of your wife's installation and work. That was great.

[Nick Kroll]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

She did a great job. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

She's incredibly talented. She's a massive fan of yours.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. Well, so that. Well, I'm glad I went. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

She is very funny. You're the, you're truly the one comic who. So I think she started listening to your podcast very early on when she was trying to figure out what she wanted to do. And she said that, like, your podcast gave her insight into the idea of that you could fail along the way to success like that. So many of the conversations you had, but not about you particularly, but mainly you, but that she. It was really as she was trying to figure out what she wanted to. To do and it was really enlightening for her. And. And so your conversations really propelled her towards doing what she does now. Yeah, in a lot of ways, which is like landscape design and large scale botanical installation. And what you saw was like a. A, you know, a visual art sort of.

[Marc Maron]

Well, she had the installation. Yes, the mound.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, the mound.

[Marc Maron]

And then she had a lot of other, you know, wall pieces.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Which I thought were very good because I like, you know, I studied photography, I studied the history of photography and some of this stuff. I'm always very taken with artists who have a fairly specific vision and that is their mode of expression. So if the artist is good and has done their work, you're looking at fully realized expressions of themselves that have their own poetics to them. And I thought it was all very good. And I liked it. I like going to art shows Where I'm like, all right, this is. Is. I'm in the hands of a professional here.

[Nick Kroll]

That's great.

[Marc Maron]

This is like, this is.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, so there's nothing worse than going to an art show. And you're like, this is what is.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like, this doesn't fully realize.

[Nick Kroll]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Is really what it comes down to is that either through craft or. Or skill or whatever, that they're. They're not necessarily a laziness to it, but they didn't have complete control of their thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Totally, totally.

[Marc Maron]

But she does.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Well, she'll be happy to hear that. And also. But ironically, that was her first show of that medium, that was the first time she had done it and is now expanding what that is.

[Marc Maron]

Well, there's like. I don't know what they're called. These. Call them pictograph or what's the. Where you lay things on paper.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, it's exposed. I think pictographs are lumens. It's like, inspired film paper. And she takes, like, plant material and then lays them out in the sun and light and captures the.

[Marc Maron]

Figure it out.

[Nick Kroll]

It was also early botanical, how they gathered botanics, like, back.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, to document.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, to document. Like, Darwin era.

[Marc Maron]

She's playing on that too.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But there's so much like, sort of experimentation and chemical sort of control that has to happen with photographic processes.

[Nick Kroll]

Totally.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, because you're dealing with light, you're dealing with the photosensitive paper, then you're dealing with chemicals. And that whole balance, you know, pushed me right out of that form.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. You couldn't fucking bullshit your way through it.

[Marc Maron]

No. No, you can't.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. That's the thing.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. What fixer are you using? The stuff that's in the thing.

[Nick Kroll]

The stuff that's there.

[Marc Maron]

It's in the tray.

[Nick Kroll]

Let me tell you what the problem with these rooms is, though.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I just realized, like, I loved photography. I liked taking pictures. But to really have a control over it, you really have to know light and chemicals.

[Nick Kroll]

But your obsessiveness didn't compliment that.

[Marc Maron]

No, because my obsessiveness is not of the nerd quality.

[Nick Kroll]

Right. It's none of the useful quality.

[Marc Maron]

No. It's just sort of like, I could have done this if I did, if I'd only done that, but this is too much. I'm gonna fuck this up. There's too much to know. Like, how can I even think that this is good if I didn't know that part?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. So you're like this.

[Marc Maron]

I wish I had.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. No, no, because there is that thing where you. I'm sure you've interviewed a million of those, like, obsessive people who put it into their art and make it useful.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. Like Wes Anderson.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What is that?

[Nick Kroll]

That's.

[Marc Maron]

It's almost to the point where it's too much.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Gorgeous ocd. Absolutely, flawlessly, beautiful ocd.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And sometimes you just sort of look like. You know, I think he should be doing still photos.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. Right. But then you got to fix them and you got to do that. No, it's. And. But she also does this. She's doing this thing this summer in Madison Square Park. She took over a couple of the lawns and has designed, like, these outdoor installations on the lawns of Madison Square park all summer.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know. People hear that, though. They're thinking, does she do topiary? No, it's. Yeah, it's different.

[Nick Kroll]

No, it's a different thing. That's a. It's a meditation garden. Like a labyrinth.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And then a children's garden with, like, some stages. And we're going to do some, like, live reading stuff for kids and stuff in there. And then. But the medit. I sat there at the meditate. I was just in New York. I sat in her garden. I. You know, because I was there for a couple days and sat and just watched everybody walk through it. It was so gratifying in New York to watch, like, 50 different kinds of people walk through this one thing and experience it differently. It was really beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

I love New York for that reason. I once read a book that changed my life, and no one can find the book. And I know it exists. It was really about the original concept for Central park that before Olmsted got.

[Nick Kroll]

His stupid fucking hands on it.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I don't know how far back it goes, but when they first started to build the city, they realized that, you know, in order for it to function for humans, you needed, you know, to sort of balance out green space like that. That countryside was a necessity.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

So this thing has to be of scope and of density and mystery enough to provide the. The wild. The. The wild landscape.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And. But the idea that they would have enough vision to be like, we think it could get this big, so we need to make the park think about it on this scale, that eventually this whole island will be covered.

[Marc Maron]

Right. Well, I don't know if they knew that, but they were very concerned with that. It was essential to human beings to have a place that they could be in the wilderness.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Or the land. Totally And I just thought that was so genius.

[Nick Kroll]

And it's true. And then, I mean, also the same.

[Marc Maron]

Guy who did Prospect Park.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I was gonna say Prospect park also is an amazing thing to understand that about Brooklyn, too.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

It's like they save your soul. That was the cool thing about Rome, was that Via Borghese, that massive park, was, like, really beautiful, like, calming place to get inside of.

[Marc Maron]

It works.

[Nick Kroll]

You need it.

[Marc Maron]

Like, right when you walk into Central park, two minutes in, you're, like. You're out of it.

[Nick Kroll]

You take a deep.

[Marc Maron]

Isn't that wild, though?

[Nick Kroll]

I was there, too, and it really. You need it.

[Marc Maron]

I just went to Sherman Oaks, and.

[Nick Kroll]

You went to the Galleria in Sherman Oaks.

[Marc Maron]

No, my. My girlfriend's out in Sherman Oaks, and there's this huge park that is primarily flat, but they've got, like, a couple soccer fields, baseball, you know.

[Nick Kroll]

Is it Balboa or. No, it's one of. It's. Anyway.

[Marc Maron]

Is it called the Grotto, maybe?

[Nick Kroll]

No, the Grotto is a different kind of park. Oh, no.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know what it is, but, like, even that functions.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

There's, like. There's a purpose to it.

[Nick Kroll]

You need it. And LA is, unfortunately. You've got Griffith park, which is an amazing resource, but you miss the central gathering part.

[Marc Maron]

There's no central gathering here. There's a lot of, like.

[Nick Kroll]

It's a failure in design.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And you can do Runyon and see that whole thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, I love to go Runyon. I go to. No, but it's funny. Runyon is the first time when you move to LA or you come to LA and it's just filled with people with so many demons. Oh, yeah. Just like, the most.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. A lot of dreams. Hiking up that trail.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. A lot of. So many eating disorders. Hiking up and down that hill of all types of all types and frequencies.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I was there recently, and I hadn't been there in years, and I'm like, yeah, this is it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, that was the.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go to Runyon and you go to the Gelsons on Franklin.

[Nick Kroll]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's like a block where you can walk.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Two blocks. Oh, well, there's Runyon and then there's like, the, you know, canyon. The Bronson. Yeah, the Bronson. I did for many years. I did that hike for many, many years. Like the Bat cave area.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out here, you got this brand library is the best.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. You got to do it. I'm telling you. You got to do a bit about hiking or Something like that.

[Marc Maron]

I do do a bit about.

[Nick Kroll]

How was it. How was this taping?

[Marc Maron]

Good.

[Nick Kroll]

Great.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that. That closer was good. Yeah. You saw it.

[Nick Kroll]

I saw that. I heard you talk about it. I've seen the clo. I saw it at some point with the Taylor Swift.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

It's really great.

[Marc Maron]

We had buy the song. Oh, and that cost a little money, I bet.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, but she could have charged you more, I bet.

[Marc Maron]

I bet you she could have.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't. Don't think I didn't text Jack Antonoff. Hey, buddy.

[Nick Kroll]

Hey, bud.

[Marc Maron]

Quick, quick glance.

[Nick Kroll]

Got this bit.

[Marc Maron]

And I don't know if it helped, but it was fine. I thought the taping went great. I really think it.

[Nick Kroll]

Have you gotten used to doing it now where you're not unbelievably nervous and panicky while doing it or leading up to it?

[Marc Maron]

What was interesting about this one is the last couple, because I don't want to leave too much to cut. Like, I really need it to be as close to the time that I'm allotted as possible because I don't want to be.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, you don't want to be editing down and.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it sucks.

[Nick Kroll]

You built it for a reason.

[Marc Maron]

So, like, I worked this shit because, you know, I had to take a break from the tour. I mean, I've been working this shit for over a year and a half. Yeah. And, you know, I kept it kind of fluid and stuff was coming in, you know, even days before.

[Nick Kroll]

Right. Like, this is fun and feels good.

[Marc Maron]

Little beats.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But by the time I. I got to the show, like, I knew the material was solid, but, you know, then it just becomes. Things I ask myself is, like, where you're gonna have to pace up a little and you're gonna have to shift your. Your, Your pausing because, you know, this. We gotta get this all in and don't. I just felt totally confident with all that shit. I was a little nervous about my shirt.

[Nick Kroll]

That's always the concern with you. For me, I'm always worried about the shirt.

[Marc Maron]

What's Mark gonna wear that he's gonna regret? I have the whole history of clothing.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. No jacket, shirt. No jacket. Just shirt.

[Marc Maron]

No, I locked in on the outfit early.

[Nick Kroll]

Great.

[Marc Maron]

And I wore the fuck out of great. I gotta tell you, though, dude, the look of this thing, because I go into these things thinking, like, you can't reinvent these things. Sure, there's a guy on stage telling jokes, but my production designer was a genius.

[Nick Kroll]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

He's a genius. And, like, he had this concept the reason I did it at the Bam. Harvey. Have you been there?

[Nick Kroll]

This is different than Bam.

[Marc Maron]

Not the big one. There's a smaller one. It's about 800.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

And it's an old vaudeville theater.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, cool.

[Marc Maron]

That they didn't restore it. They've kind of preserved it in its decay.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, great.

[Marc Maron]

And I just. When I saw it, I'm like, the back wall, the literal wall of the theater looked like a Rothko painting. And I'm like, this whole thing has got to be about that wall.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And my production designer locked in, and he had this concept based on katsuki. You know, the Japanese art of repairing ceramics with gold.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, cool.

[Marc Maron]

And he just said that. He said, do you know what Katsuki is? I'm like, no, but just go do whatever you think.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And the thing looks stunning, right? And the performance was, I think, pretty solid. And we could cut between both shows. And. You didn't see my fat.

[Nick Kroll]

Good. That. Most importantly.

[Marc Maron]

Most importantly.

[Nick Kroll]

Most importantly, you didn't see my fat. You know what I think about still? Because I. I think about you talking about your grandmother, or. I'm sorry, you. What I think about is you talking about your mother eating whipped cream.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I. And I. Oh, you Cool Whip.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

So when I'm like. When I'm like, want. I need my little sweets, I need a little taste.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

A little shot of whipped cream really gets me through. And almost every time I do, I think about your mom.

[Marc Maron]

I'll tell her.

[Nick Kroll]

Please do.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

A low fat, low sugar way to get a little hit. I'm talking about a little dopamine hit.

[Marc Maron]

It's fun.

[Nick Kroll]

It's so fun.

[Marc Maron]

Do you go there? You do that?

[Nick Kroll]

I don't know. I have a separate tank for that that I just hit by the bed.

[Marc Maron]

Not ketamine, though.

[Nick Kroll]

No, no, no. I got Kanye's dentist on board. So now I just.

[Marc Maron]

How are your folks?

[Nick Kroll]

They're good. They're. They're eight. You know, they're older. They're getting older, but they're good. They're 80. Like, 84 and 82.

[Marc Maron]

That's where my parents are. 86 and 84. 82, 82, 83.

[Nick Kroll]

I mean, it's. You know, the bummer for them is, like, people keep dying.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Everybody dies.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. Serious.

[Nick Kroll]

Ah, fuck. I can't believe I'm the one who's gonna tell you.

[Marc Maron]

God damn it, man. Next you're gonna say, there's no Santa.

[Nick Kroll]

I. Santa dies.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Kroll]

Santa died.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, that's the thing we're all trying to stave off. Do you exercise?

[Nick Kroll]

I do, but I took a much longer break than I wanted to. As I cover my belly with my jacket, I started doing. I've been doing. I needed to get myself to do it again, so I did. I started doing, like, Orange Theory, which is like, group workout circuit training. I needed to. Yeah, you got public with other people and be held accountable. Oh, by. To myself.

[Marc Maron]

And it worked.

[Nick Kroll]

It was working much better because, like, if I have a trainer, I'll, like, eventually bully them out of pushing me too hard.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like. So then I started doing these classes, and you can see everybody's like, scores, like, heart rates and calories. So you get. You can be competitive.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I was like. That helped for like two. For like, two weeks. I was working out pretty hard.

[Marc Maron]

How long ago was that?

[Nick Kroll]

It was like six months ago.

[Marc Maron]

I got this. Whoop. Watch. So I compete against myself.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, good.

[Marc Maron]

But I'm kind of compulsive, probably more than I admit. And I had this moment on Twitter today. I don't know what this was or where it came from.

[Nick Kroll]

It's called X. Just be respectful.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, X. So someone tweets like this piece. I don't know where she got it. I'm a Maren fan. This is weird and random, but I've heard so many reasonably very attractive. If 20 something women say he's hot or ooh, I'd go with him. These are women who usually don't like older guys. I'm straight, but I can usually see why certain men are attractive to women. The first time I heard it was like. The first time I heard it, I was like, what the fuck? Who? Mark. Really? Then I heard it again and again. I just can't see it with Mark. He seems mostly like an aging, grumpy, self obsessed, neurotic, scruffy dude who is oftentimes negative with other people. People. He almost copies the hipster lifestyle at times. And his workout routine consists of trying to jog a little now and then. That's what bothered me.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure. That that last line.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Like, you know, I'm like, wait, you know, I work out.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes. The rest of it is fair.

[Marc Maron]

It's fair.

[Nick Kroll]

Frankly, fair. And also, as he explains it, you're like, of course women would be into that kind of person.

[Marc Maron]

That grumpy guy. But yeah, his positives are, he's funny. A celebrity. B or C list.

[Nick Kroll]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

In parentheses Mark Squarely a B list. Yeah, I know. And has some charisma. Some. Some, yeah. Other than that, I just don't see it.

[Nick Kroll]

Do you feel like. Is it that you're. That you're not getting credit for working out? That.

[Marc Maron]

That's what bothered me about that.

[Nick Kroll]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

It's like all the other stuff. All right, fine.

[Nick Kroll]

Fair enough.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But don't take that away from me. Don't take away.

[Marc Maron]

I. I'm very much an exercise.

[Nick Kroll]

Do you jog every once in a while today. Really? Do you jog in public? Do you jog out in the world?

[Marc Maron]

It's not good for your knees and shit. I drive on treadmill.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Because I don't like, also publicly working out like that. I don't want to be.

[Marc Maron]

I do a very hard hike up there.

[Nick Kroll]

That's the whole hike I'll do any day.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But jogging in streets is, like, my worst night.

[Marc Maron]

I tried a new thing on the treadmill today because my trainer told me to.

[Nick Kroll]

What?

[Marc Maron]

The sprinting and then sprinting for a minute and getting it down to zero. I never did that before. I usually do four miles, half walk, half run up inclines, and today I did a new thing.

[Nick Kroll]

How'd it feel?

[Marc Maron]

It felt good. But, like, you know, I get it in my head that, like, I need to go an hour and I need to do four miles, and you're not obsessive at all.

[Nick Kroll]

There's no, like, weird rules that you've created. No systems in place that have to be met or else it's a failure. There's nothing like that.

[Marc Maron]

I'm having a hard time knowing that I turned the rice off before we came in here. Yet 10 minutes later, I wasn't able to fluff it. And now it's just gonna sit there.

[Nick Kroll]

And it's not gonna be fluffed.

[Marc Maron]

It's not gonna be fluffed. I mean, I'll probably get through it.

[Nick Kroll]

This is. You'll slowly make your way through.

[Marc Maron]

So. I told you, the medicine's really working for me.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I can tell.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I can tell. So what are you doing with your talent? Like, what's going on with Big Mouth? It's done.

[Nick Kroll]

Big Mouth. Season eight is done. And that's it with that show for right now. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's a long run, dude.

[Nick Kroll]

That's a long run. Will be the longest running scripted series on Netflix.

[Marc Maron]

Wow.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Do they know?

[Nick Kroll]

They don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

No, we haven't told them. We're gonna tell them, though. We'll tell them. Yeah, we're we did. We did a. We did like 80 of those and 20 human resources. A spin off. And then so it's over. I mean, the funny thing with animation is it's like we finished a year ago and now it's coming out this week. So, like, it's this weird distance that you have from it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And yeah, I'm very. I'm so happy about it. It was the greatest one. Probably like the best creative. One of the best creative things I could have ever hoped for, which is I made it with my childhood friend. With a lot of my friends.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And now people have a lot of tattoos.

[Nick Kroll]

And now people have so many fucking tattoos of it. And that to me is what other bigger sign of that is. It's like my Rogan tattoo on my back. Seth.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Seth Rogen. Yeah, Seth Rogen's face on your back.

[Nick Kroll]

It's across my whole back. Because we're friends.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Because I love Knocked up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You gotta do it. You did it when you're in high school.

[Nick Kroll]

So I. But yeah, I'm so proud of it. It's done. We're doing a new show that will come out like next year.

[Marc Maron]

Animated.

[Nick Kroll]

Animated for Netflix. Yeah. Same team called Mating Season about animals dating and fucking in the woods, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, sure. That's a. Never ending. Well, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Versus puberty, which is, you know, a specific time.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But a continuation a lot of ways of kind of the stuff that we did.

[Marc Maron]

Do the animals have dating apps?

[Nick Kroll]

They do. We have a. We have a thing for it. Yes, we have. We have a.

[Marc Maron]

Keep it up to date with what's going on.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And it's. I mean, it's very fun. And then animal stuff of like. All right, what is the. What is the human thing that. How do we translate to the animal world in the way that, like, you know, the Flintstones was fun. Like, you know what I mean? That.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure.

[Nick Kroll]

And so we're doing that. That's the final season, comes out May 23rd. And then I've been producing this other show called adults on FX. Like 20 somethings in New York.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that. Is that on?

[Nick Kroll]

It's about to be on it. It comes out on the 28th on FX. And then who.

[Marc Maron]

What's it. What's. What's the tagline on that?

[Nick Kroll]

Adults is like, you know, it's like if the. If you had like, you know, sex in the city or friends.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

They were in, like living in the West Village.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And then the girls. And girls were like, living in Brooklyn right now. That period of time in your early 20s, these kids are living in like deep Queens at one of their friends, one of their. One of their kids parents house in Forest Hills. Yeah. And like Flushing. In Flushing. Flushing, yeah. And Bayside area. An area that's not going to get gentrified, but it's where they could all live.

[Marc Maron]

I lived in Astoria for years and that's barely gotten gentrified.

[Nick Kroll]

Really, you think a story I feel like has come up a lot?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I don't know. I guess I haven't been there. When I was there, it was like there was never even a threat of it being gentrified.

[Nick Kroll]

No. Well. And at that point, a story probably the most international, like the most languages spoken in the world.

[Marc Maron]

The best. It was just the best. I used to get off that train at 30th Avenue, the N train. And you know, after doing comedy and it's like 2:30 in the morning, there were entire families shopping for vegetables. Are there no rules?

[Nick Kroll]

No, no, it's. It's so, it's so the show is like. And it's really about kind of Gen Z that those kids. But it's really about like codependent group of friends living in a house together, trying to figure out how to be people in that kind of grand tradition of that kind of show.

[Marc Maron]

So how would, how do you. What. How are you tapped into this generation? Are the writers 2020?

[Nick Kroll]

No, I wrote it. No. Yeah, the writers came to me like literally Ben Cronengold and Rebecca Shaw. They came to me. They're a couple. They've been together since college. They came to me like Ben who? Ben Cronen Gold.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Nick Kroll]

And Rebecca Shaw there. They were Fallon writers when I met them. Yeah, they were at that. When I met them was five years ago. It was like my first emails were them like November 2020.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

When Melanie was just running around New York on cocaine.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I got this call from them and we just started talking about their show and I was like, they just had such a clear vision for it. They're fucking funny. Great writers. And it was like, yeah, that, that sounds like a show. And so I've just been helping them. You know, we help pitch it and then develop it at FX and just. And then I directed the finale of it and just helped them throughout the process.

[Marc Maron]

So you've got a season in the.

[Nick Kroll]

Can season again that comes out. Yeah, the 28th on FX. FX. And then on FX for Hulu the next. All the whole season drops on fx.

[Marc Maron]

How much directing are you Doing?

[Nick Kroll]

I'm starting to direct a little bit. I directed on History of the World, and then I directed the finale of this, and starting to do that more.

[Marc Maron]

You like it?

[Nick Kroll]

I like it. I love. You know, when you're producing, when you're writing and producing, it's like you kind of are doing a massive portion of that job. So you're like. I guess. Because I was just like, I don't like being there at Call, and I don't like going on tech scouts, like the stuff that directors and crew people have to do. But I was like, maybe if I can move through that, I could actually, you know, experience something new.

[Marc Maron]

But do you want to do a movie?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, I think, like. But it's like, I love it, but I also. I love doing all of it.

[Marc Maron]

I thought you directed this one that I forced myself to watch. And then when I found out you didn't direct it, I'm like, why'd I watch it?

[Nick Kroll]

Another rousing, another wonderful pull quote from Marin. Just for your listeners who maybe are considering going to the movie. It's much better than Marin is giving it credit for.

[Marc Maron]

No, I will say that it was well shot and it's all there. And.

[Nick Kroll]

Again, another perfect full quad. It's well shot, and it's all there. Go to the theater to see. I don't understand you. June 6, Marc Maron.

[Marc Maron]

It just took me a minute to walk in.

[Nick Kroll]

It's totally. I agree. That is. That. Is. That it's. It's really interesting. It is. It's an interesting experiment in playing with audience expectation.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, totally.

[Nick Kroll]

And. And in this moment in time, it's harder to get people to lock in if something doesn't exactly make sense to them right at first.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. The whole you're dead thing. Yeah, it's funny.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, there's definitely funny things in there. And I think that, you know, because of my expectations, when I look back on it, it's funnier than it was when I was watching it.

[Nick Kroll]

Could we use that one, too? I don't know your fans well, but can someone just make a put. Can one of your fan. Can someone make this. The pull quotes for all of these quotes for the movie that I can put out on social.

[Marc Maron]

When I look just like.

[Nick Kroll]

It was just like, all of them or a trailer where it's all. You see the trailer and it's always as. It's like. Instead of it being, like the Daily Beast being, like, dementedly funny, it's just all of Marin's quotes from the movie I would. I will put that out when it comes.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know if I have those kind of fans, but maybe. Maybe a couple. I think that's a young fan game.

[Nick Kroll]

Calling all you. What the fuckers.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you young nerds. You want to help out in this area?

[Nick Kroll]

Can I ask, when did you pull out? Wtf? My. My. My Chupacabra was in the intro for your show for a long time.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Double utf.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, double utf. Well, we look back today, like you were on one of the. The full episode we did was like 1112 like it, like real early. And then there's like 2 in studio chupacabras and one live one that my. My buddy Brendan still laughs about. We talked about it today.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, really?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't do that character anymore, can you?

[Nick Kroll]

No, not really.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Nick Kroll]

It's gone. But what a. What a. What a run. But what a run we had.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it's great. Yeah. So are you gonna try stand up again or.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm gonna. I'm gonna try. I'm finally gonna try.

[Marc Maron]

That bit you did about your. Your mother, like, taking compliments from your mother kills me.

[Nick Kroll]

Thank you. It was so funny. Yeah. Is that how you feel with your mom?

[Marc Maron]

What was the setup again?

[Nick Kroll]

It's just how we're so deeply impatient with our moms. No shorter fuse with anyone in the world.

[Marc Maron]

No shorter fuse.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. My mom. I'm gonna forward you an article about the art deco movement. Why would you do that, Mom? You know, art deco is my least favorite architectural movement.

[Marc Maron]

It's just that, like, I think that's helpful in the sort of assessing rage thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Literally, that tone of, you know, at any age, at some age, you would hope it would stop, but that sensitivity and reactiveness to your mother that is infantile but still exist in your old man body.

[Nick Kroll]

It's crazy.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy.

[Nick Kroll]

It doesn't go away. And I think it's. And it's more extreme with mothers than fathers, I think. I think there's just.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you don't get hit.

[Nick Kroll]

Emotional. Emotional hit. You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

Fathers are scarier.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Fathers are scary. And also, you can work your mom. Yes. But you're just so emotionally intertwined with her in a way that is. It hits some deep, like, kind of core thing that makes you explode.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And. But there's also the fight, and this is, you know, about when you have kids, that there's also the point where you're trying to get out from that. And I think that tone comes from like, I just want to be my own person. Yes.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And like. And if I can tell you anything as a father, please. Yeah. Is that because I was told. Is like your mother and your parents did not allow you to separate and be yourself.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And that's something they have to do consciously.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

That you have to let them fail or, or have their own sense of being start to evolve. Because if you get in the way of that, then you have a lifetime of like.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, totally. I mean I just had my parents. I was on Colbert in New York.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I was like. And I was, I was, I was like. It was around my dad's birthday, so I was like, why don't you guys come to Colbert and then we'll go out to dinner.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I went. And they were backstage with me in the, in the green room again talking about this. Like, why didn't I, why didn't I just be like, watch the show and then we'll meet up. So they're in my green room and I'm doing the pre interview with the producer and my mom starts to like weigh in on like. And I, and I became again like a six year old child. Like, you know, before I'm about to go on national television in a pink suit. You know what I mean? I'm just. And I was like. But I did that to myself. She's just. You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

I never let anyone come.

[Nick Kroll]

I don't know why I did.

[Marc Maron]

I'm better at it now. Cause I don't, like, I honestly, I don't really care. But it used to be like if you'd let them watch you in real time, like you're gonna be reacting to that. Of course it's gonna be hanging over you.

[Nick Kroll]

And you have so much other stuff connected and attached to those people. My least favorite shows are hometown shows off. Oftentimes like that they're the least. I don't. You know what I mean? Because you're just, you're, you can start to see, you can feel people who, you know, thinking about you and you.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. Or what you think they're thinking. Yeah. Like they're usually kind of, you know, whatever they say afterwards, they're in awe of it. I mean, you know, you're doing it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

You know, so even if they can't. Nice shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

The buttons. It's not because I've put on weight. It's just simply the fabric. It's a Western. Western shirt that I got from a special place. This guy's a wonderful. I lived in a town in Wyoming. As you look at the computer, I'll make this long.

[Marc Maron]

I'm watching the levels because we're yelling.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh. Oh. I lived in this little town in. In Dubois, Wyoming.

[Marc Maron]

You did?

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, for. And For a couple summers. And it was a cool little kind of dude ranch, real western town. It's like 80 miles.

[Marc Maron]

Family went there.

[Nick Kroll]

No. No family. Friends had a place there. And I was like, can I go work for you? And they were like, no, go work. They were a ranch. It was like, be a ranch hand. Like, they're like, you won't be good at this.

[Marc Maron]

What's that TV show?

[Nick Kroll]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

Let's.

[Nick Kroll]

Here it is. Let's do it. Here we go. This is the soft pitch, Mark. And. But I lived in this town and worked at this restaurant. And across the street was this old general store, Welty's. And it was like, owned by the old family who's, like, owned this town for years with the wealth. The wealthies who were the wealthy.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And they. But it was closed. The. I don't know. The father died in, like, like, say, 70s or 80s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And it was closed for 30 years. Except they would open it, like, one at that time. Like one or two days, like a year.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And you'd walk in and. Was all the original. Like, Wrangler Lee.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

70S in its original. All the.

[Marc Maron]

Like, could you buy it or was it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, you could buy it. So I had all these. But 70s pants are too tight.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Maybe those wouldn't fall down your ass.

[Marc Maron]

No, they just. They'd stop at some point. Yeah. Yeah. I can't get them to not fall down my. I don't. I just don't like them up over my waist.

[Nick Kroll]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

What am I gonna do? So. All right, so where's this story?

[Nick Kroll]

It's you and black youth.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it is. People always wonder, like, they, like, it is a style, but it's not intentional.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, I'm just always pulling up my pants that. You know, Fine Arts made that documentary about me, and I'm like, holy shit, dude, my pants are falling down. This entire fucking show for an hour and a half of this documentary.

[Nick Kroll]

Are you conscious of it while it's happening?

[Marc Maron]

Sure, I'm just. I'm always pulling them up and. But there's at some point, like, I bend over to get something out of the oven. He's shooting it. My entire ass is out. And I'm like, dude, my entire ass is out. He's like, well, we can pixelate. I'm like, no, they're waiting for it.

[Nick Kroll]

It's like, you're literal. You're literally underwear. You're literal.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, you gotta go. No, but we've been working towards the whole thing.

[Nick Kroll]

Now I'll tune in. Now I'll tune in to watch it.

[Marc Maron]

How much stand up you doing?

[Nick Kroll]

I'm doing it when I can. I'm like, you know, it's just. Just. I don't know. My life is a little. The young kids don't make it easy. But if I could, in an ideal world, I would be, like, doing it, like, two or three times a week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And I. And I. But what I do generally, I try to, like, stack them if I can. I finally went to New York and went and did the. The Cellar and the Village Underground, and that little, like, run is very nice.

[Marc Maron]

And how'd you go for it? Good.

[Nick Kroll]

It was so fun. I barely ever performed.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

Like, because when I was in New York, when I'm in New York, I'm, like, doing some other show. I'm not, like, like, running spots. And it's. It was so fun.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because you can do, like, nine rooms in one block.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. And they're. And the crowds are fun, and it's a little, like. It's a. It's just not as tight. It feels a little hotter.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, New York crowds are a little hotter.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

But I'm used to, like, New York theater crowds, which are fun, but, like, different.

[Marc Maron]

Old different.

[Nick Kroll]

So I'm doing it. I, I, I'm trying to figure out, like, what it is right now where I'm like, am I working towards, like, a special for an hour, or am I. I'm doing a bunch of stuff this summer. Some dates in, like, Canada. We're doing. I'm doing a couple of things with, like, Melania and Birbiglia and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God. What is that? You mean stand up?

[Nick Kroll]

We're doing, like. We're doing, like, some festivals in Canada as a.

[Marc Maron]

As a three, four.

[Nick Kroll]

It's like Mulaney show with. And we're all doing spots on it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And we're doing some of those. I don't know if that's the right framing of it, but that's how it feels to me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Mulaney show. You and Mike.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, yeah, me and Mike and Fred.

[Marc Maron]

Pop Armisen.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, interesting.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. So it'll. We'll do it. We're doing a few of those. And so I'm just sort of always building towards, like, whatever the next assignment is.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, okay.

[Nick Kroll]

You know what I mean? So I'm like. And maybe out of that, like, I'll have. I'll start to be like, okay, this now feels like something I could go tour with more on my own. Just build it out.

[Marc Maron]

So I'm still stuck on, like, how. Where. How come we're not on the show, you know?

[Nick Kroll]

Well, will that feeling ever end?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Nick Kroll]

No. I mean, I want to drop in. We're going to be in Halifax, so we're going to be. If you want to. Honestly, if you're in Halifax and want to drop in, we would, I'm sure, love to have you.

[Marc Maron]

All right, well, next time, you know, we had a dinner without you.

[Nick Kroll]

I know. I heard.

[Marc Maron]

And it was fairly productive.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. I really had this moment where I was like, should we talk? Have you ever just openly talked shit on the air about people that you talk about in private?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sometimes, you know, sometimes I'll talk to them and be, you know, I'll dance around it, but it becomes apparent.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

That's a joy to listen to.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I did it with. I was talking to Liza Trager, and, you know, Birbiglia came up, and he's. He's always challenging for me.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes. Yes. I mean, I don't say that. Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And that you. No, you're saying for me, not for you.

[Nick Kroll]

Correct.

[Marc Maron]

For you. He's just great. Yeah, fine.

[Nick Kroll]

We went to college together. I've known it for my whole life.

[Marc Maron]

That's fine. So doesn't explain anything. But. No, but we, you know, I told. You know, and I've talked about this with Mike.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And we had. And we left it in. You know, a lot of times my producers are like, that's not necessary. But we left it in because it was sort of getting Liza to a certain point. Well, because I said it, you know, and it was. It's not anything that him and I haven't gone through. My producer's, like, you should give him a heads up. So, like, he. You know, he's not blindsided. Right?

[Nick Kroll]

Sure, sure.

[Marc Maron]

But I did do it. I said, hey, just so you hear it from me and not someone else. I was talking with Liza Traeger on my show, and you came up and I was honest about how I've perceived you throughout the years. I don't think it will be surprising to you, but also wanted to be upfront about it more Grist. For our mil. When we talk, I guess. Yes. And then immediately I get, can I call you?

[Nick Kroll]

He wants to know. He wants no paper trail of word said.

[Marc Maron]

Well, no, Then I gotta be like, now I gotta fucking own it and talk to him about it.

[Nick Kroll]

But then does it help to talk through it versus a text?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because so much of what I do is, like, you know, it's verbally.

[Nick Kroll]

It's all tone, but it's also just.

[Marc Maron]

This emotional dumb reaction. And immediately after I say it, when it becomes real, I'm like, God damn it. Now I gotta.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

You know? Like, sure. Fuck. I don't. It's not even. Why'd I even do it. But he said, look, you know, it's fine. And. And, you know, we talked about it, and he's like, but, I mean, I'm gonna come on. Because he's gonna come on dead promoter special. Yeah. He goes, I just, you know, I'd rather not do that for. You know, have that.

[Nick Kroll]

Have that conversation again. Yeah. You're like, but I got this ocd, so. I mean, I'm kind of obsessive about this.

[Marc Maron]

I'm like, of course, of course. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know what? But, like, I'm fine with him. I'm fine. I'm fine. And I can't even quite explain it to you. I.

[Nick Kroll]

Of course I could. You could. And then one of us will text him afterwards. No, I mean, I.

[Marc Maron]

He's a good comic, and, you know, there's just, you know, nothing's easy for me, and I don't think it's easy for anybody else. But there is a sort of way that he kind of moves through his standup. And I know it's all very well crafted, but, you know, for me, everything's very life or death. And I'm like, he's just kind of blobbing his way through it.

[Nick Kroll]

Oh, you think so? I mean, I know he works so hard.

[Marc Maron]

I know. So hard.

[Nick Kroll]

But. But I know. I understand the. It's so interesting because I literally, you know, I met him when I was a freshman at Georgetown. He cast me in, like, a sketch show.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And so I've known him throughout my.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And he immediately got out of college and, like, was on Letterman within the year.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

So he has had continued success in a way that was like, wait, all this.

[Marc Maron]

All this is the dossier? Everything you said is me? Like, yes. That's. That's. I mean, what the fuck is that?

[Nick Kroll]

Well, what about my happiness childhood? We haven't Even talked about my happy childhood, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, I. I give you a pass because I find you so entertaining.

[Nick Kroll]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

And your happy childhood. I don't begrudge you. I just can't look at it.

[Nick Kroll]

Right. Of course, neither can I.

[Marc Maron]

You put it on Instagram.

[Nick Kroll]

I know. I put it on Instagram constantly. I'm trying to mine.

[Marc Maron]

It's this well loved fucking prince kid. And I'm like, God damn it.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, of course, of course. Trust me.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

I feel this. I feel the same way. But.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but Mike, I know he works hard. I love him. And you know, there. It's just. There's this fundamental thing that it's fine.

[Nick Kroll]

I can't. Well, the thing is with him and others who you've known for a long time, the people you came up with, you're just like, of course. It's all of it. There are these people who, if they stick around in your life in various ways, like the guys I'm sure you came up with, and the ones that stick around, you have complicated relationships with them, and you can love them, respect them, and also be frustrated by them.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. Friends.

[Nick Kroll]

Friends, yeah. Friends who eventually kind of become family in some weird way. You know what I mean? We're just like, this is what you know.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's good that you have that group because, like, see, like, whoever you're talking about, I came up with, I don't have any friends.

[Nick Kroll]

Nobody.

[Marc Maron]

There's no, like, you know, I don't have a family. Right, right. So, like, I imagine you and Mulaney, you go out with the kids and the wives and that kind of stuff.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure, sure.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Biglia, too.

[Nick Kroll]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

I have none of that.

[Nick Kroll]

I mean, not. I mean, the. The reality is we all see each other unbelievably rarely because of lives and stuff like that. So you. I mean, that's what you find as they get older is you're like, oh, I don't see anybody ever.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Nick Kroll]

Unless. And that's what the nice thing about doing standup is. Like. Like, socializing is going.

[Marc Maron]

That's why. Yeah. It's your whole social life.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like when. When I go to those dinners with you guys, I'm like, wow, that's so nice that they include me. And then I realized, like, they just want me to talk about. No.

[Nick Kroll]

No, but it is.

[Marc Maron]

But it's like Marin's a loose cannon.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. You know, whether you want that. You want that loose can. No, but I. But I. You don't. It's. As opposed to, like, us Being backstage, talking, then one of us running up on stage into a spot and then coming back or going to another spot. It's a. You know, it's a condensed version of. Of what that could be at a. You know, in a green room.

[Marc Maron]

No. Yeah, but. But it's. But it's not, though. It's nice to have dinner with everybody.

[Nick Kroll]

But it's hard to.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know, this time we went to Craig's. You missed Craig's.

[Nick Kroll]

How was it? And that would have been interesting.

[Marc Maron]

No, it's great.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

As opposed to that horrible Italian restaurant. Enough with the campy. Whatever reason we're there. Yeah. It's like Craig's is where we should be.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes, of course.

[Marc Maron]

And it was fucking great. Everyone had good food.

[Nick Kroll]

There's a couple of campy places in LA that I've now decided. I'm like, no, this is. Is not worth the shtick.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick Kroll]

You know, it's like, I don't care.

[Marc Maron]

Let's just go get a meal where we get the respect that we.

[Nick Kroll]

We demand.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

And then you get to look at funny people or interesting people. I like to see funny.

[Marc Maron]

Food's okay. And they're happier there.

[Nick Kroll]

Again, if they. If they want to use that for their pull quote, which. The food's okay and you're happier there. Go come to Craig's. Mark Marin.

[Marc Maron]

The food's pretty good.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right, buddy. Well, it's good to do it.

[Nick Kroll]

We did it.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, we're good. Good.

[Nick Kroll]

Okay. Can I just talk about Israel and Palestine real quick before we get off?

[Marc Maron]

I'm run. I'm out of tape.

[Nick Kroll]

I'm kidding. I got no more data. I get AT&T. Took off my zeros and ones.

[Marc Maron]

The reals are running out.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah, no, we're good.

[Marc Maron]

There you go again. That movie. I don't understand you with all of my Blurbs. Comes out June 6th. And Big Mouth 6, season 8 is out on Netflix right now. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, listen, you can go check out the time Nick Kroll and John Mulaney were on the show together. That was back in 2016, on episode 743.

[Nick Kroll]

We had started talking like these guys. Yeah, we had seen these two guys at a bookstore at the Strand, of course. And they were with their own bags. Yes, they each had their own tote bags. The old Strand bags, which we used to say was Strand, is 8 miles of books and 12 miles of loneliness. And so we see. We go in there and we see these two guys buying their individual copies of Alan Alda's Never have youe Dog Stuffed. Hardcover. Hardcover. Great book, by the way. Great book.

[Marc Maron]

I just talked to Mr. Alda.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes, I know. Wonderful conversation. Amazing. He's such a real actor and artist.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Nick Kroll]

In a way that.

[Marc Maron]

A curious guy.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Like a sweet guy. And like. Yeah. Thinker. And he's like. He like science.

[Nick Kroll]

Yes. He hosted, what, 13 years Scientific American.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. He's very into making sure kids like science.

[Nick Kroll]

Yeah. Imagine.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Imagine caring about that. That's so noble.

[Nick Kroll]

I really respect that.

[Marc Maron]

I, like. That's why I don't have children, because I don't care.

[Nick Kroll]

Can you imagine pointing the stars out to them and lying and making up names? So we. We see these two guys buy their book. Buy that book. And then we. We just immediately kind of become fascinated with them. Follow them out of the Strand to, like, a diner, coffee shop.

[Marc Maron]

You're following them now?

[Nick Kroll]

We are now following these two men, and we follow them. And then as they sit at a coffee shop and both start reading their copies of Alan Alda's book, never have your dogs not talking too much. But clearly, like conjoined twins. Yeah. And we just. Those. They just became a. They became the focus point of guys that we've been interested in. Right. This was also the time of, like, what was this, 2005? This was when a lot of people, like, a lot of people through the New York Times had just heard about Jon Stewart or something. It'd be like, people get their news from Jen Daly. He'd be like, oh, you're the worst.

[Marc Maron]

That's available for free on all podcast platforms. To get every episode of WTF Ad free, sign up for WTF plus. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. This is me playing my new favorite guitar. A a not too old Gibson SG White SA Boomer lives monkey and La Fonda cat Angels everywhere.