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- [00:02]
Marc Maron
Hey, folks. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. We made a great website using Squarespace, and you can too now with the best features Squarespace has ever offered, like Design intelligence, which uses AI technology to help you get the exact design specifications you need. And Squarespace payments, the easiest way to manage your sales in one place. Go to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Wtf? Welcome to it. Welcome to all you people that have been here for a long time, some of you new people that have a lot of catching up to do. Look, you guys, I don't know if you. You know this or why would you. Maybe some of you would, but. WTF? This podcast will turn 16. 16 years old on September 1st. That's a couple months away. 16 years. It's a long time. A long time. It's a long time to do anything. And it's certainly. I've. I've said recently that I know when I'm living it, I don't feel like time is passing by quickly. But, yeah, all of a sudden, you know, you're old and you realize you've been doing something a long time. And this started, you know, the old garage, the, you know, just no one knew what a podcast was. I was coming out of a horrendous divorce. I was wanting to figure out how to continue living my life. Things were not looking good for me. Brendan McDonald, my producer, who I had worked with for years on other things, radio and streaming related. And when Brendan and I started this thing, all we knew is we were going to do it every Monday and Thursday, and there was no way to make money. There was no way that we knew how to build an audience or anything. And it was. It was crazy. We were doing it in a garage. At the beginning, that was just a garage. It was filled with junk. And it. It slowly evolved into the show that became what you listen to twice a week. Sixteen years we've been doing this, and we've decided that we had a great run. And now, basically, it's time, folks. It's time. WTF is coming to an end, and it's our decision. We'll have our final episode sometime in the fall. It was not Some kind of difficult decision necessarily. Neither me nor Brendan, who are the only people in charge of this operation on every level. I record it here in my garage studio. Brendan produces it in his chair in Brooklyn. And it's always been a two man operation. And we always said, well, how do we know when we're done? And I always said, well, whenever Brendan says so, and he always said, well, if Mark is finished, then we're finished. And thankfully, we both realized together that we were done. And there was no convincing or pushback or arguing. We were done and it's okay for things to end. 16 years and we have been through a lot. And I'm talking about me and you, the audience, me and Brendan, me and my life, me and my cats, me with my guests, me with, you know, my equipment, you know, me with, you know, moving and things change. But you've been through the entire arc of my life and everything that's happened in it for the last 16 years. And a lot of it was not easy. A lot of it was amazing. A lot of monumental things really happened on this show. And this was a show that was started when there were no podcasts and now there are nothing but podcasts. It's been an incredible time in my life and Brendan's life. We've done things that we never thought we would be able to do. Because of the podcast. My life changed dramatically. All the things that I set out to do before I did the podcast as sort of a Hail Mary pass to be a stand up with an audience, to try my hand at acting, to, you know, to, you know, have experiences with other people that were, you know, one of a kind and completely exciting and unique and engaging and revealing. To talk to a president in my garage. So many things happened because of just this. Setting up a mic in my garage with Brendan, you know, on the knobs, producing it, discussing with him how we do it all. It was a real creative partnership. And you, the audience, have been here through all of it. And I shared everything I could with you because that's the way I do it and with my guests. And there have been so many amazing guests. And it really comes down to the fact that we have put up a new show every Monday and Thursday for almost 16 years. And we're tired, we're burnt out, and we are utterly satisfied with the work we've done. We've done great work. And this doesn't mean I'm never going to do something like this again. Doesn't mean I'll never, you know, have talks like I do here or. Or some kind of podcast at some point in time, but for now, we're just. We're wrapping things up. It's okay. It's okay to end things. It's okay to try to start some other chapter in. In your life. And I'm talking to myself. I. You know, this. This podcast has been my connection to you people. It's been my connection socially to people in my business, people I never thought I'd meet before, creative people, interesting people. It's a very big part of my spiritual, social, and psychological life. But I'll be honest with you, it's nice to be able to end things on our terms, and we've always had that power to do that, and that's what we're going to do. We started the show on our terms, we grew it on our terms, and we'll end it on our terms. Look, we've had great partners who have helped us do the show over the years. Acast has been our partner for the past three years, and we've been able to do things on our terms with them. We always had that, and it's always been the way we've done it, and that's been great. And we've been very fortunate to be able to do things the way we want to do them. And now this is. Part of it, is ending it the way we want it to end. And look, the thing about burnout, about being tired, and about the way me and Brendan are, is that we are very focused and very particular and very hardworking in this endeavor. And the quality of the work we've done, every fucking episode, is its own greatness, because we're crazy dedicated guys who really want this to be the best show that it can be. I bring what I bring to the table. Brendan brings what he brings to the table. And, you know, God forbid, we just keep plowing along and. And something diminishes. And we wouldn't want to just keep plugging along because we can. At the risk of our burnout or our. Our sort of, like, you know, passion, you know, starts to. To drift or it starts to get sloppy. We're just. We're just not those kind of people. And look, I mean, look, I've got a lot of stuff going on. I've got a lot of projects going on, and we're still going to be doing this for the next several months, and we'll try to have as many people on as possible. Many people that maybe want to do it, never did do it, or people that maybe will do it. Now that, you know, this is the sort of like home stretch. But I do want to sincerely thank all you people, you know, for being along on this journey with me and with Brendan and with all the guests, because we really did something here and I want to thank you all for that. This isn't a sign off, but that's the big news and I'm sure we'll talk about it more in the weeks to come. I'm sure that you guys will want to chime in, but just for now, thank you for being here, as always. And it's going to be, there's probably going to be some ups and downs over the next few months with me emotionally around the reality of this, but it's done with, with, you know, this is a, a full hearted decision. It's the right decision for me. It's the right decision for Brendan. It's okay. It's okay for things to end. It's just time, folks. But again, we'll have a few more months, so don't get all bummed out. Let's just enjoy it. The world is on fire. I have people I want to talk to. We'll find a little joy. We'll find a little connection. We'll find a little solace in each other's company. We'll learn some things, we'll get some laughs, we'll cry a little bit and, you know, we'll move on. That being said, the first guy to hear about it was my guest on the show today, who's a good guest for this, for this particular episode. John Mulaney is here and he's been listening to this show since the very beginning. He was also on episode 551 and episode 743. He's been through a lot since then, I would say. He's currently hosting the Netflix talk show Everybody's Live with John Mulaney, which had its season finale last week. So, yeah, I get to break the news to John. Also, I wanted to mention this. The documentary, Are We Good? The screening at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City next month, that's a documentary about me. There are two screenings. Saturday, June 14th at 5pm that's at the Okx Theater on Chamber Street. Then Sunday, June 15th at 5:30pm it's screening at the Village east on 2nd Avenue and 12th Street. You can go to wtfpod.com/tour to get tickets for that. And oddly, in the current cut of the documentary, it is not brought up that, that we are retiring the show. But I'm excited. I'm excited. There are things going on. I mean, I just went to the premiere of Stick. That's the show I'm in with Owen Wilson. I will tell you about that, will I? Yes, I will. First, though, I was just talking last week about the great heroes of art and culture I've encountered in my life. All the things that celebrate freedom of expression and diversity of creativity. The stuff that expanded my worldview and helped me see life through other people's eyes. Yeah, like Arkham comics, underground art, weird music, like the residents. So much stuff. I can't imagine where I'd be without all the things that took me to that edge of human expression. And it's a damn shame to see people trying to steamroll and bury the arts. You don't need me to tell you that the arts are experiencing funding cuts that are unprecedented. So it's more important than ever to have places like BAM that are keeping the arts thriving and vibrant, just like they've been doing for more than 160 years. I just filmed my comedy special at BAM, so you probably heard me talk about how great the venue was, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. BAM is a world renowned hub of theater, music, opera, visual arts, films, literature, and of course, it's cutting edge dance programs. This is North America's oldest performing arts center. And when you give to bam, you invest in the future of a unique artistic community. You help make their iconic spaces accessible to all. You help create a welcoming home for diverse programming, and you ensure that there is always a place for artistic risk and innovation. Give to BAM today. Go to BAM.org support because this is where we're at. You know, it's going to be on us. It's going to be on people that have the means to donate to places that still represent what a democratic creative world looks like. It's scary. I think about it every day now. I really think about it every day. Like all the things that were important to me coming up, all the things that built my brain, all the weirdness and there's no end to it. To the type of music I was turned on to, the type of writing I was turned on to, some of it fringe stuff, some of it just, you know, you know, people that really lived on the creative edge that had, you know, that had personal weird tragedies and lives that were able to document it and talk about it and make it into art. So please, if you can, if you have the means to donate to these places, please do it. Please do it. Bam.org support as I said, working in that space was amazing to me. So look, in terms of the future, I seem to have a lot of things going on. I did go to the premiere of this new show, this new Apple show that I'm on with Owen Wilson, which premieres June 4th. I think they're going to drop three episodes. And they had a nice little red carpet event at the AMC in Century City with all the cast there and the producers and the writers and everybody on the crew. It was kind of great. Got dressed up in the one suit I have. I have actually two suits. But the thing is, I had never seen it. I didn't watch any of the cuts. You know, I was trying to do what Owen does. You know, Owen doesn't watch anything he's been in ever. He's never seen anything he's been in. I talked to him about that. I understand that. But, you know, like, I did this independent movie that I wanted to see the rough cut in case I had any suggestions. I was a producer on it and he was also a producer, but I guess of stick. But he explained it to me. He said, look, you know that fight scene that you and I had? I remember it as like the greatest fight scene ever because it was not a real, like stunt driven fight scene. It was an emotional explosion between two old friends. He says, I just remember that as great. Why not just hold on to that? And I respect that. So he actually went out during the screening itself. He went out with his brother Luke to get something to eat. And, you know, I watched it and I gotta say, it's gonna be a touching series. I feel like I did pretty well in it. I. I feel like I. I did the character, I represented myself. I was doing some new things for me in terms of acting and how I was approaching it. But I gotta be honest with you, this series is a heartfelt, heart wrenching experience. And the comedy balances out the emotions pretty well. I think people are gonna enjoy it. I think you're gonna enjoy it. And it doesn't matter if you don't know anything about golf, because, you know, I didn't and I'm in it. And sometimes when they're interviewing me on the junket, on all these outlets are interviewing me about what my relationship with golf. I almost feel like I should lie, but I don't. I did learn enough, I think, to portray the guy that I portrayed. I didn't need to step up and look like a real golfer, but I think I could look like a real caddy if necessary. And, but mostly in this show, I was an emotional caddy, I think, for a lot of the characters. But all that said, I do recommend you watch it because I think it is a very human and a very moving series. In a rare turn, all the characters kind of transform, all the characters change. And that's really what you want from an arc of a story about any character is that they do change. And this is a kind of found family. Is that what you call it? A kind of makeshift family of underdogs who, who are kind of moving towards self realization and trying to let go of some things. And it's a, it's kind of a beautiful thing. Feeding yourself is hard enough sometimes, but what about when you have a whole family of mouths to feed? If that sounds familiar, it might be time to streamline dinner time with Home Chef. Choose from more than 35 meals and 18 extras per week, including kids themed special meal kits. Home Chef delivers fresh ingredients and Chef designed recipes conveniently to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease for my type of diet. This week's menu has stuff like the roasted Korean tofu with mushrooms and snow peas or the veggie lovers stir fry with noodles and peanut sauce. But you can take a look at the menu and find out what's best for you. For a limited time, Home chef is offering WTF listeners 18 free meals, plus free dessert for life and of course, free shipping. On your first box, go to homechef.com WTF that's home chef.com WTF for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. Stop trying to figure out what to make for dinner and open the door for Home chef. Again, that's homechef.com WTF and you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Free dessert. 16 years, you guys. Wow. It's gonna be fun, though. I think I do think we're gonna have. I think we're gonna have a little as. As much as I'm capable of. This will be a bit of a party. Is that possible? Is that overselling it? Is that it's. It's gonna be good. And John Mulaney, I did his show. I did that. Everybody's live with John Mulaney. Had a nice time and it's always nice to talk to him. I haven't talked to him. I think everybody else has about, you know, what he went through with, with getting sober. I imagine we're going to get into that a bit. Everybody's Live with John Mulaney, just wrapped last week. I couldn't make the rap party because I was doing a press junket for Stick. I. I don't know if it's clear whether he's going to do more, but they're all there if you want to watch them, and they're pretty unique and odd. This is me talking to John Mulaney and breaking the news. This is an ad by BetterHelp. And BetterHelp is trying to do something that I've been trying to do on this show for a long time, destigmatize men's mental health care needs. Six million men in the US Suffer from depression every year, and it's often undiagnosed. A big reason for that is the pressure around asking for help. But listen, it's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. If you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. Anyone. Could be a friend, a loved one, or even a therapist. I've been going to therapy lately because I knew it was time. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com WTF? That's betterhelp.com. wTF? Heavy shit, man. Jacques Derrida.
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John Mulaney
Yeah. I felt like I took a crack at Derrida and Foucault and those writers in college, and all I can do is say their names. And I'm like, you know, we're pretty smart people.
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Marc Maron
No, I know. We tried.
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John Mulaney
We tried. So what were they doing is the real question.
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Marc Maron
Well, I think you have to be sort of. It's part of a evolving language of philosophy. So if you're not gonna read the Heidecker and you're not gonna read the Kant.
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John Mulaney
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
It's hard to make the jump right into the Derridas and the Foucault.
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John Mulaney
Yes. They have deceptive introductions. I feel like this for everybody, like I'm gonna be able to handle this one.
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Marc Maron
Yeah. It's literally a different language.
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John Mulaney
Yes, it is.
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Marc Maron
And I think the most accessible one was that Baudrillard, I think.
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John Mulaney
Don't know it at all.
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Marc Maron
You can read that guy.
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John Mulaney
Okay.
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Marc Maron
He's. He's of the same ilk, but he was a little more poetic, and he dealt with things that you can kind of see in life as opposed to think. Yeah. What was his first name? Jean Baudrillard. You know, he. They actually made one of his coffee table books. Yeah. I was kind of obsessed with knowing that stuff, but not unlike you. I possess the books.
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John Mulaney
I possess the books. I possess the desire. And I carry myself as if I've read them.
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Marc Maron
I think that's your great trick, John.
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John Mulaney
Yeah, thank you very much. I would like to give off that I have read those and thought about those.
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Marc Maron
I think the more I see of your show, the more I realize we're similar. It's like it only takes one album to make people believe that, you know.
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John Mulaney
All of it 100%.
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Marc Maron
So we have to open in a very specific way. And you're the first person I think I've said this out loud to, but this episode, I will have said in the intro before I talk to you that we are ending the podcast.
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John Mulaney
Whoa.
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Marc Maron
I know, Mark. I know, I know.
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John Mulaney
I'm shocked.
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Marc Maron
We've got some time. It's in the fall.
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John Mulaney
Okay.
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Marc Maron
But my producer and partner in this endeavor, Brendan, and I, have agreed on the decision to put it to rest.
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John Mulaney
Congratulations.
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Marc Maron
Thanks, buddy.
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John Mulaney
That's awesome.
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Marc Maron
It's 16 years, man.
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John Mulaney
It's 16 years.
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Marc Maron
And look at the. I feel like I've partially done an amazing thing for culture, but on the other side of that, I feel like I've released the Kraken.
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John Mulaney
Oh, that's interesting.
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Marc Maron
Well, it was bound to happen.
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John Mulaney
I think it was bound. I think. Yeah. I think the Kraken just, you know.
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Marc Maron
Is gonna come out no matter what.
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John Mulaney
Yeah. Was out. Gonna come out no matter what. And you sort of. It's no longer AM radio.
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Marc Maron
Well, it's always twofold. When you're at the beginning of a new medium, you know, there's a lot of, like, wow, this is the freedom of it. And, you know, I think those words are said before anything turns into a horrendous, malevolent force.
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John Mulaney
The freedom of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Marc Maron
But yeah, yeah.
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John Mulaney
Before you build a commune in Idaho, you. You remark upon.
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Marc Maron
Isn't this amazing?
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John Mulaney
Wide open land.
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Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
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John Mulaney
We could start a neo Nazi commune here.
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Marc Maron
Or even any kind. Like, we are free to think and feel the way we feel.
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John Mulaney
Yeah. Finally.
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Marc Maron
And now that's over and you have to drink. Everyone must drink this at the same time.
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John Mulaney
Our ambitions have exceeded our space in San Francisco. Deanna looks nice. It's beautiful down there.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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John Mulaney
Plus no meddling relatives. So finally, that's, like, what we thought of.
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Marc Maron
Out of the reach of Congress.
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John Mulaney
Out of the reach. Out of the reach of notes and networks.
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Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, that's exactly right. Have you. But, yeah, but so you're the first to kind of know you're the first guest.
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John Mulaney
Congratulations.
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Marc Maron
Well, that's a nice way to frame it. I appreciate that. I think we've done an amazing thing. I don't think we live in a time where people of my generation and slightly older know how to move on from anything or stop.
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John Mulaney
Do you feel like you're kind of making yourself stop for the exercise of it?
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Marc Maron
No, I feel like, you know, we've done our bit. We've done all right. You know, it worked out okay for us in terms of we've always done a great show. We've always. The quality and the audience has remained steady and high. And I just think there's no shame in saying, like, all right, well, we did it, and we did a great bunch of work. And I don't really know what this means for me when it. You know, I do have a few months, but I do have to try to wrap my brain around what. What it means in terms of, like, this is most of my social life. Like, you wouldn't be here if it isn't. If you didn't.
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John Mulaney
I'm. I'm sure.
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Marc Maron
Sure. I mean, maybe I say, hey, John, you know, I got something I need you to talk about. It's vague, and I just. Could you come over?
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John Mulaney
Let's just look at each other and talk for a second.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, we could do that. And I like doing that. But it is a big part of my life and has been for a long time, and I don't really know what it feels like to not have it.
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John Mulaney
I know. Because you have been so consistent. The longest stretch you ever took off.
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Marc Maron
Well, we don't take any off because we do two new shows every week, and we have for 16 years. So no matter. Even if, you know, Brendan takes a vacation. I don't vacation much, but I'm on the road. I'm recording the things. Yeah, there was a period there where I was interviewing people out there and, you know, doing the intro. So, like. So this job and this passion of these conversations, you know, was a big part of my life. And I don't know what you're like, with resting mind. Does it. Has it ever happened. Be honest.
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John Mulaney
Had a resting mind. Yes, I have. Had. Yes, I had. I had full. I had. I think I had a pretty full period of. You can't talk your way out of this. You have to sit in this. But, you know, looking back, it might have been a few months only.
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Marc Maron
Yeah.
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John Mulaney
But it's a resting mind. Like a peaceful resting mind.
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Marc Maron
Well, just sort of like, okay, I've decided to, like, you know, in relation to, like. Yeah, the post bottom hitting. Now we've got to rebuild, own up and try not to do any more damage.
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John Mulaney
Yeah. I don't know why I answered like that, because clearly. Yeah, you're talking about a more.
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Marc Maron
We've done this amazing amount of work. Culture has changed, we've gotten older, we've done all we can, we're satisfied, we're okay. But it's been a primary part of my life, you know, for this amount of time. And now that's going to be gone 100%. And I know even if I just do standup, you know, like working towards this special I just shot, that's two years, a year and a half of pounding that shit out.
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John Mulaney
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
And now, like, you know, I did it and there's that moment where I'm like, well, you know what? I'm going to just take a break in three days. I'm fucking at the store.
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John Mulaney
Of course.
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Marc Maron
So. But this is going to be different because after we stop this, I'm like, I don't have a producer. I don't have the bookers. I, you know, I guess I could still sit here on the mics, but I'm not going to do that without my. My creative partner. And I don't know that I. But it's going to be interesting because I guess the point was if I sit with myself for very long, it's not good upstairs.
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John Mulaney
Sure. Yeah.
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Marc Maron
I mean, I start. What does your brain do?
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John Mulaney
I'm trying to think. The longest amount of time I've.
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Marc Maron
Does it go to somewhere in the zone of like, I'm a piece of shit?
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John Mulaney
I forget what I do and I go, like, do I. What is my job? I go to the gym sometimes.
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Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. I make coffee.
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John Mulaney
Yeah, I make coffee. And like, now you got the kids.
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Marc Maron
So there's always that.
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John Mulaney
There's that too, but in front of, in front of them, when I've had a month or two.
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Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, why is Daddy sitting on the couch so long?
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John Mulaney
Yeah. Why does he have so much time for us. He really thought. He really thought about building this city out of blocks. This is. This is troubling.
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Marc Maron
It's much better than I was actually.
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John Mulaney
I was actually more dialed into building a city out of phone blocks the other day than my son, and he moved on. And I was like, well, why don't we. Why don't we make a walkway? Because I can't get this building higher, but we can make a walkway to a different.
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Marc Maron
And he was. He was just.
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John Mulaney
He was like, nah, yeah, it's good. Let's go to Discovery Cube.
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Marc Maron
Yeah. How old is that kid now?
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John Mulaney
He's three. Getting back to you for a second. Did you have. Well, did you have a. Was there an interview or an episode or a jag of interviews where you started to go, oh, I'm going to hang this up, and if so, who were they?
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Marc Maron
Yeah, no, not really. You know, everything is like, I don't know from one interview to the next what's really going to happen. So there's always that element of surprise.
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John Mulaney
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
And I do get anxious and sort of somewhat dreading everyone because I really don't know what's going to happen. So there was never there. There's been moments where it's been a job.
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John Mulaney
Yeah.
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Marc Maron
But it wasn't interview specific.
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John Mulaney
Okay.
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Marc Maron
It was just sort of like, you know, like, we, you know, we're kind of short on interviews. We're going to have to do five this week.
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John Mulaney
Right, right, right.
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Marc Maron
Yeah. And then, you know, and there have been ones that have been disappointing in that I couldn't get through or whatever. But it was never. There was a sort of point where, like, how many actors do we have to do?
- [31:08]
John Mulaney
100%.
- [31:12]
Marc Maron
But it was fortunate that kind of coincided with me becoming an actor. So there was that interest at least. But to the average person, you know, are they gonna talk about craft again?
- [31:24]
John Mulaney
That's very funny.
- [31:25]
Marc Maron
It's like the guy's just listening in his car. It's like, I'm gonna listen to Paul Dano talk about animal work. A penguin, huh?
- [31:36]
John Mulaney
Now they're just doing Alexander Technique on the air.
- [31:40]
Marc Maron
Exactly. There's been. There's been Jags like that where it's like. But fortunately, because Brendan, my producer, you know, like, sometimes he comes up with ideas and I learn things. You know, there was a period of professional wrestling which was not totally my thing, but it was his thing. But, you know, I can engage with that, generally. I can engage.
- [32:00]
John Mulaney
But we've also.
- [32:01]
Marc Maron
We've also talked to almost everybody.
- [32:04]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Probably no show has had the quantity and quality you've had.
- [32:10]
Marc Maron
Crazy.
- [32:11]
John Mulaney
Like I've dipped in and out over the years. Like not out that often.
- [32:16]
Marc Maron
You were an early adapter.
- [32:18]
John Mulaney
I was an early adapter. I was on the show for that first time live at Comics. I think back before it. Maybe before you.
- [32:25]
Marc Maron
Even before we did the one on one.
- [32:27]
John Mulaney
Yeah, maybe.
- [32:28]
Marc Maron
Yeah, there's definitely a live one.
- [32:30]
John Mulaney
Different episodes had different formats. Right.
- [32:32]
Marc Maron
Well, that was only try to make money.
- [32:34]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Marc Maron
The live ones were, you know, we had created a pay site so people would buy them because we were stuffing envelopes and doing tiered donations at a house full of envelopes with T shirts and stickers for the high tier donors.
- [32:46]
John Mulaney
So it's been you and Brendan since 2009.
- [32:48]
Marc Maron
Always.
- [32:49]
John Mulaney
Oh, wow.
- [32:50]
Marc Maron
He was always. It's just me and him, period.
- [32:52]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just mean he and you started it.
- [32:55]
Marc Maron
I've been with Brendan since 2004. Wow. I met him when he was 24 years old at Air America. He was an associate producer just come out at wnyc.
- [33:04]
John Mulaney
He was on Morning Sedition.
- [33:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [33:06]
John Mulaney
Okay.
- [33:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I've known him since he was a kid.
- [33:08]
John Mulaney
That's amazing.
- [33:09]
Marc Maron
And for the first like five years of doing this, he. He couldn't say he was the producer because he was working somewhere else with and on what a no compete or something. A non disclosure or whatever.
- [33:18]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [33:19]
Marc Maron
But he couldn't own it. He used to drive me nuts. That's so funny because he was just like. He was the mastermind, you know, he was the wizard. And I'm like, no, no, no. I got this guy.
- [33:27]
John Mulaney
Yeah. I got this guy helping me out.
- [33:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah. This is the worst.
- [33:31]
John Mulaney
That's so funny.
- [33:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [33:33]
John Mulaney
Are you going to miss the. Or I'll volunteer this. I would certainly miss the. Hey, good show this week.
- [33:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [33:41]
John Mulaney
From a passerby or a friend or an.
- [33:44]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I don't know. I have a lot of people that have been sort of. Because outside of the interviews, the narrative of me, you know, has been. Has really made me very close to some people for sure on their side. And I appreciate that. And I. I don't know. That's the big question. Will whatever small amount of relevance I have in this culture, you know, and we all sort of worry about relevance on some level, you know, when that goes away, you know, and part of it is delusional in my head anyways. But I always think like, you know, I'm not quite relevant enough or, you know, am I relevant? But with this out of the picture, I'm Sort of like I could close my social media accounts and be okay.
- [34:27]
John Mulaney
Interesting.
- [34:29]
Marc Maron
I don't know, dude.
- [34:30]
John Mulaney
Why did that give us both a start? I close our social media.
- [34:33]
Marc Maron
Can you imagine?
- [34:34]
John Mulaney
We stared at each other like, whoa. Now Mark's.
- [34:36]
Marc Maron
I know, I know. But it really. I think it would be helpful and healthy. I'm 60. I'm going to be 62.
- [34:43]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [34:43]
Marc Maron
There was a time in this country where people were like, I'm winding it up.
- [34:47]
John Mulaney
Yeah, but not show people.
- [34:48]
Marc Maron
I guess not. They just keep going. And sometimes you look at them and you're like, why? Why?
- [34:53]
John Mulaney
Because. Why not?
- [34:55]
Marc Maron
Because like, to me, it's still fun to do it.
- [34:59]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [35:00]
Marc Maron
But. But sometimes you may not know when you go out there, people are like, geez.
- [35:05]
John Mulaney
He said that's where. That's where a little bit of our. When we're in that groove of inflated self esteem versus crushing low self esteem. That's why it's helpful.
- [35:15]
Marc Maron
I don't know, man. I just saw something.
- [35:17]
John Mulaney
You hear that pop when I walked up there?
- [35:19]
Marc Maron
Which one?
- [35:20]
John Mulaney
No, you.
- [35:20]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [35:21]
John Mulaney
Tell yourself that.
- [35:21]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:22]
John Mulaney
You're 75.
- [35:23]
Marc Maron
Sure, sure.
- [35:24]
John Mulaney
They were pretty surprised I was there. Yeah.
- [35:25]
Marc Maron
As you're looking out at an audience of 75 year olds and still asking.
- [35:28]
John Mulaney
Them at the Cellar to act like you're a special guest. Hey, anything can happen here. Even this old ass man can walk up here.
- [35:35]
Marc Maron
Well, they can, dude.
- [35:37]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [35:37]
Marc Maron
And they do. I just saw footage of Angus Young and for the first time in my life, I'm like, oh, he's this fucking little old man, you know? And it's like hard. And I had, you know, I did a whole bit about the Stones on that level. And it's just, you know, there's something about your heroes pounding on.
- [35:55]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [35:56]
Marc Maron
That makes you want them to be immortal. God damn it.
- [36:01]
John Mulaney
You do. But I guess I'm one that always wants people to either reunite or go back out on tour.
- [36:06]
Marc Maron
Seriously?
- [36:07]
John Mulaney
Oh, yeah. I always want people to come out of retirement and do something really. And then I think as a fan, it's never enough. Like I'm always. Yeah, what are you expecting? Going, keep going. What am I expecting?
- [36:17]
Marc Maron
I guess it's something to do with my own sense of mortality that I get kind of squirrely when they get old.
- [36:23]
John Mulaney
Okay.
- [36:24]
Marc Maron
Do you know what I mean, where I'm like, oh, it's like. It's like that bit I did about when, you know, when the day that Mick falls down when he's in the middle of it and then you got a room Full of baby boomers going, like, that's over.
- [36:35]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, he's down. He's down. Yeah. Everyone fanning him with menus.
- [36:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah. You okay, buddy? You okay? But the frailty of it all. Look, I don't know, man. How's your standup?
- [36:48]
John Mulaney
Well, it was. It was sort of slightly neglected when I was busy with some other things. And then I've been doing a ton of spots because I've been doing longer monologues on this Netflix show and that, like, I appreciate. So I started kind of working at it, like, there.
- [37:05]
Marc Maron
I appreciate the effort of that.
- [37:06]
John Mulaney
I appreciate that. Thank you. Because it's been fun to do.
- [37:08]
Marc Maron
You know, there was a period there where I thought, you know, I had a pilot for a talk show many years ago at Comedy Central, back before. Back when it was still half run by HBO. I did a pilot for Comedy Central in probably 2000. Fuck, I don't know. Well, it was before the Daily show started. They went with the Daily Show.
- [37:33]
John Mulaney
Okay.
- [37:33]
Marc Maron
And I did something called the Marc Maron Project.
- [37:37]
John Mulaney
This was after Short attention thing. Short attention span.
- [37:40]
Marc Maron
Right. And Chappelle was my guest. And Stephen Weber. There was a big. But Chappelle was still like a kid almost. And I was going to the Museum of Broadcasting and watching Jack Parr shows because I wanted to figure out how to do the long monologue. And if you could hold it, like, if you could keep it compelling enough for people to want to go for the whole arc.
- [38:08]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [38:09]
Marc Maron
Was that your feeling?
- [38:11]
John Mulaney
A little bit.
- [38:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [38:12]
John Mulaney
Could you hold. Could you hold them? And could you relax out of having a monologue cadence? And would they follow it?
- [38:21]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [38:22]
John Mulaney
And that. That's not groundbreaking. Other people have done that, but it was. I just wanted to see, you know, Richard Kind announces me. You just had the titles. Energy, Energy, Energy. And you want to go, welcome to my show. Yes. This is the only show on Netflix where punchline, Punchline. And then kind of tell a story. Yeah. Tell a story. Get out of that.
- [38:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [38:43]
John Mulaney
And. Yeah, again. And tell it to the camera, too, as well as the folks in the room.
- [38:48]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [38:50]
John Mulaney
And just feel like. Yeah, we all have a bit of patience right now.
- [38:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [38:54]
John Mulaney
As we.
- [38:55]
Marc Maron
As we go somewhere as we enter this. Yeah. We don't know where it's gonna go.
- [38:59]
John Mulaney
No, not totally. We don't know if it's related to that night's themes. We know it's not related to the news.
- [39:05]
Marc Maron
Now, in the conception of this thing, how many have you done now?
- [39:08]
John Mulaney
As of Today, we've done 11. We're doing the 12th on Wednesday.
- [39:11]
Marc Maron
And that's it.
- [39:12]
John Mulaney
That's it.
- [39:13]
Marc Maron
Have they said we're doing more yet?
- [39:15]
John Mulaney
We. Yes, there was a plan to do more and we're figuring it out.
- [39:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Are you gonna.
- [39:22]
John Mulaney
I never know what to say to that.
- [39:24]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean. Well, here's the question.
- [39:26]
John Mulaney
I'm just thinking about. Here's the.
- [39:28]
Marc Maron
You're thinking about Wednesday?
- [39:28]
John Mulaney
Yeah, I'm thinking about Wednesday.
- [39:30]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, here's the question, though.
- [39:31]
John Mulaney
It's been very enjoyable and it's been. It's been very enjoyable. And I. I have really felt the 12 weeks in a row.
- [39:44]
Marc Maron
It's a lot. Imagine if you're doing it every day.
- [39:47]
John Mulaney
Yes. Though we would scale back what we were doing if we were doing it every day.
- [39:53]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [39:53]
John Mulaney
But I guess My question is 60 minutes of all. It's all us. No commercials. No, that's true.
- [40:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess my thought is, like, at some point in the career of a comic, you realize the jobs that are available to you. Like, you do stand up and that usually means. Well, if you're not going to be a writer, you're available to host things.
- [40:17]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [40:18]
Marc Maron
That's a job. A standup does.
- [40:19]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [40:20]
Marc Maron
You can have a show centered around you.
- [40:22]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [40:23]
Marc Maron
All right, now you've done all of this stuff.
- [40:25]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you've done all of the things available. Two of them. Yeah.
- [40:30]
Marc Maron
Three. Three.
- [40:32]
John Mulaney
Writing.
- [40:33]
Marc Maron
Writing.
- [40:33]
John Mulaney
Oh, some actors.
- [40:34]
Marc Maron
Hosting, Being center of a show. Yeah, that would be the acting.
- [40:38]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [40:38]
Marc Maron
And then just your stand up. So there's really four ways.
- [40:41]
John Mulaney
Hey, you. Well, I think Brian Regan, for a lot of us.
- [40:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [40:48]
John Mulaney
Had a different path of, like, you can be an industry out on the road and then you, Marc Maron, can.
- [40:53]
Marc Maron
Be an industry in my house.
- [40:54]
John Mulaney
Created a fifth one.
- [40:55]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [40:56]
John Mulaney
The fifth estate.
- [40:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [40:58]
John Mulaney
No, you really did.
- [40:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I've created an entire culture. Culture of entertainment fueled by, you know, aspiring afternoon drive time radio personalities.
- [41:08]
John Mulaney
It is amazing.
- [41:09]
Marc Maron
It's just like every. You flip on your phone and depending who you're following, you'll see three or four white guys sitting behind mics talking about the first time they shit their pants as an adult.
- [41:19]
John Mulaney
Well, I'm glad you never got a couch. A lot of these shows started having a couch with mics.
- [41:24]
Marc Maron
Well, we're just audio.
- [41:25]
John Mulaney
You're still a desk.
- [41:26]
Marc Maron
But we're just audience.
- [41:27]
John Mulaney
Oh, that's right. There's no fucking, you know, this. That's so relaxing.
- [41:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And there's no. We didn't. It was not what we do. We're Audio guys.
- [41:35]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [41:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah. So how do you feel you did with this format?
- [41:42]
John Mulaney
Oh, I love doing this format. Yeah. I mean, it felt like making 12 specials using the talk show as a format.
- [41:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:50]
John Mulaney
I once did this children's musical special, and it felt like I'm taking something like free to be you and me. It was really fun. Yeah.
- [41:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [41:58]
John Mulaney
I'm doing a comedy special of my stuff channeled through like, you know, free to be you and me with Marlo Thomas. And this felt like some kind of evergreen, weird, not quite any era talk show that also is trying to be, you know, that's also a variety show in some ways that's also trying to be like Jules Holland or David Sanborn. Jules Holland. Night Music, you know, and trying to feel very loose and then trying to feel very produced. And we just got to, like, try. We got to try every speed, too. It was more. The more than just that. We got to try a lot of bits and jokes and have guests on it. It was more. We just got to try whole episodes where it felt very shoestring and then episodes where we were blowing it out production wise.
- [42:55]
Marc Maron
Right now, if. Let's hypothetically you say, all right, I'll do 12 more. But these are like, this is what I've learned. This is how we're gonna move forward.
- [43:06]
John Mulaney
Yeah. You know what's great about that?
- [43:08]
Marc Maron
What I don't have to learn.
- [43:09]
John Mulaney
As of no learning. The first six we did last May during the Netflix festival, we. It was a joke, but it also just became true. There's no time to learn. We were just doing the show that was in front of us.
- [43:23]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [43:23]
John Mulaney
And there was. There was in a. In a way that I really am proud of, there was like, little things we learned worked, we didn't do. Again, that's always good in large part. Yeah.
- [43:38]
Marc Maron
Why? Why? Why do what works?
- [43:40]
John Mulaney
Exactly.
- [43:41]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [43:41]
John Mulaney
But because other people are offering that if, you know, if you want to see that, and that's great, you know, go. Oh, this type a bit worked. We'll just do tonight. Next week's episode will look like all the most refined parts of the first five weeks of episodes.
- [43:55]
Marc Maron
Well, there was a lot of talk about how, you know, or a couple people. I said, well, they're finding their, you know, their legs.
- [44:01]
John Mulaney
Are finding their legs.
- [44:02]
Marc Maron
It's sort of like what Conan did.
- [44:04]
John Mulaney
They're finding their. Yeah, they're four years. They seem to be finding a rhythm and.
- [44:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. And I kept watching and I'm like, they're not, though.
- [44:11]
John Mulaney
Thank you. I really Appreciate that. Thank you very much. I really do. Because two reasons. One, we weren't to. Anytime you say they're figuring it out, a bad. Not a bad side, a side of me comes out, you know, like, they've found their groove. Fuck you. No, we haven't. Yeah, I'll do it blindfolded.
- [44:28]
Marc Maron
And also when they say things like they're figuring out it's just a diplomatic way of saying it's not good.
- [44:33]
John Mulaney
Oh. I think they just say it's not good when they don't. Like. Yeah. I think we're no longer living in the decent era of. Well, they're figuring.
- [44:41]
Marc Maron
I think people want the best for you, John.
- [44:44]
John Mulaney
Oh, that's nice.
- [44:45]
Marc Maron
They want you to. You know, you've got fans. And they're like, yeah, he'll get. He'll figure it out.
- [44:49]
John Mulaney
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that kind of thing.
- [44:51]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [44:51]
John Mulaney
I thought you meant. Well, Sometimes critics like to say, like, they found a groove, and it's almost them saying, like, because they took our notes.
- [44:58]
Marc Maron
Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What has been.
- [45:01]
John Mulaney
And that's the most exciting thing to them.
- [45:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Didn't listen to you at all? Didn't even read it.
- [45:09]
John Mulaney
Yeah, no, no. Read it, thought about it, rejected it. I hate when advice read advice rejected.
- [45:17]
Marc Maron
I don't like when critics are correct. It bothers me because it feels like I have a blind spot.
- [45:21]
John Mulaney
Oh, but do you find when they're correct that it's something you already had thought of?
- [45:25]
Marc Maron
Well, no. I think sometimes if I trust the critic and they assess my work, even if it's a good review, there's usually that one paragraph. There has to be, just to keep their edge or they need to show.
- [45:39]
John Mulaney
Their face at whatever. Wherever critics hang out, they need to keep held high.
- [45:44]
Marc Maron
That's right. There's the three critics that really exist. But I often think about the one thing that they're sort of critical of in a real way, and I kind of mull it over, and sometimes I've learned things, like from critics that I think, in retrospect, were probably correct. I don't think I listened to them at the time, but eventually it turned out to be kind of right.
- [46:06]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [46:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah. What has the critical response been?
- [46:10]
John Mulaney
We've had some really, really dead on excellent pieces written about the show that I think have captured that. There's. There's something intensely personal about it. Even though I'm working with eight amazing writer producers who are, you know, the voice of lots of pieces that a couple people. My favorite pieces were zeroing in on. Well, two favorite types zeroing in on. They're just kind of. This show is just kind of going where it wants.
- [46:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [46:50]
John Mulaney
And they, you know, in the, in a mature way go for better or worse.
- [46:54]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [46:54]
John Mulaney
They're just going. He wants to talk to John Cale and Maggie Rogers. He's going to.
- [46:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:00]
John Mulaney
You were there that night.
- [47:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Give that a try.
- [47:02]
John Mulaney
Give that a try. I got my own show. I'm gonna. There's no way I'm not gonna talk to John Caleb. Yeah.
- [47:09]
Marc Maron
It's funny though because like, you know, for the most part it seems you forego segment producers when it comes down to guests. Like, you know, like, I'm pretty reliable. You didn't have. But I know how to work with a segment producer for sure. But I think that on another show, if someone was gonna talk to John Cale, they would be like, well, let me just see what he's got.
- [47:31]
John Mulaney
Oh, yeah.
- [47:31]
Marc Maron
Okay.
- [47:31]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:32]
Marc Maron
No, you didn't do that.
- [47:33]
John Mulaney
No, no pre interview. No social media ask. We try to make it a very light lift for guests.
- [47:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:40]
John Mulaney
It's also, it's a talk show designed by someone that's been on a lot of them. So we did without some of the things I find inconvenient such as preparation.
- [47:49]
Marc Maron
But do you think that works out when you don't have a. Produced a pre interview?
- [47:53]
John Mulaney
For me it really does. And I'm not trying to be naive. That a meandering conversation.
- [48:00]
Marc Maron
Oh, so it keeps you engaged.
- [48:01]
John Mulaney
It keeps me engaged. It's also. I just had to look at it like there are five guys out there who do that so well. They do it really well.
- [48:12]
Marc Maron
Throw the stories basically and then make.
- [48:15]
John Mulaney
Sure are just excellent at knowing I'm going to get this guest to do this. Not just tell the story or do this bit or go over this piece of, you know, go through this news item about them. But we're gonna do it in three and a half minutes or four and a half.
- [48:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:28]
John Mulaney
It's a real art.
- [48:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:30]
John Mulaney
But there's a lot of people doing that.
- [48:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [48:33]
John Mulaney
And I wanted to. One of my favorite moments in the whole series was Tina Fey was on and spur the moment I went, do you collect anything? And she went now. And I went, neither do I. And then there was like a 11000 and then we moved on to the next topic and I. There's something about, you know, there's something about what Larry King used to feel like.
- [48:56]
Marc Maron
Sure.
- [48:57]
John Mulaney
Where he'd, you know, he'd be talking to A caller. He'd have on Andy Rooney.
- [49:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [49:01]
John Mulaney
And Andy would go, what are you talking about? He went, no, am I wrong? And he'd go, yeah, you're wrong. And then they'd move on.
- [49:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Did you ever do an interview with Larry King?
- [49:09]
John Mulaney
I did his. What was the International?
- [49:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I did that too. Yeah.
- [49:11]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah. It was fun to meet him.
- [49:12]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it was fun to meet him. And then I also interviewed him at his house, which was not a great day because I walked in, he goes, you're late.
- [49:21]
John Mulaney
Oh, interesting.
- [49:22]
Marc Maron
And I was. Because I had the wrong time. And it was not. It was a tough opening 10.
- [49:27]
John Mulaney
I know. I've had those in my life. I've had a. I've had a healthy amount of that.
- [49:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [49:32]
John Mulaney
Sorry I'm late to traffic. Well, yeah, well, that's why we leave early. Okay. Shit, I'm a grown up. Come on.
- [49:41]
Marc Maron
Traffic is no excuse in Los Angeles.
- [49:43]
John Mulaney
Yeah, exactly. That's why you map it.
- [49:45]
Marc Maron
You got to go down to Culver City. You better leave the night before.
- [49:48]
John Mulaney
But I think it was always. It's always been more fun to be as surprised by a guest as I am by a call.
- [50:01]
Marc Maron
But. But Larry pressed. You're. You're not.
- [50:05]
John Mulaney
Larry pressed. With a lot of incorrect information, of course. Yeah, yeah. No, you don't think. Yeah, he had. He had on Andy Rooney once. And he goes, they adjusted. There was just another high profile kidnapping. Let's say Elizabeth Smart. He goes, andy, why are there so many kidnappings? And Andy goes, what are you talking about? He goes, there's more kidnappings now than there used to be. He goes, no, there's not. There were always kidnappings. He goes, aren't there more? And he goes, no. And then without missing a beat, he changes topics. He goes, should the Pope resign?
- [50:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah, that was it. Just one question after another.
- [50:39]
John Mulaney
Aren't there more kidnappings? But now there's always been kidnappings, and.
- [50:42]
Marc Maron
That'S because he was with a peer and they actually had a moment of conversation.
- [50:46]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [50:46]
Marc Maron
As opposed to Larry just going, what do you think?
- [50:48]
John Mulaney
Exactly.
- [50:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I just. I just rewatched. I just realized a good analogy for. For your show. In a way, there was a.
- [50:56]
John Mulaney
No, because they're a good analogy.
- [50:59]
Marc Maron
Well, you know, look, if you watch the old Dick Havett shows.
- [51:01]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [51:01]
Marc Maron
There's.
- [51:02]
John Mulaney
There's a lot of awkwardness in the sitcom.
- [51:05]
Marc Maron
No, the Dick Cavett talk show.
- [51:07]
John Mulaney
Oh, Dick Cavett.
- [51:07]
Marc Maron
I think I meant Dick Vent. No, Dick Cavett.
- [51:09]
John Mulaney
Dick Cavett. Oh, for sure.
- [51:10]
Marc Maron
And the audience was rarely laughing. You didn't get the feeling they were there half the time.
- [51:14]
John Mulaney
You didn't get the feeling that anyone felt the role of a studio audience is to be laughing on steroids the whole time.
- [51:22]
Marc Maron
No, no. It was all.
- [51:23]
John Mulaney
And applauding every beat.
- [51:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And some of those British shows and. Yeah, and there's. There's a bit of that in your show.
- [51:30]
John Mulaney
Those are very comforting. If something of note happens. And it's very funny.
- [51:37]
Marc Maron
Good.
- [51:37]
John Mulaney
There's a big studio laugh, there's applause when something, you know. Robbie Hoffman climbing over the couch in two seats. It was a very funny, spontaneous moment. But you did feel like it's engaging to have this audience here. It adds electricity. But we're not here to make sure everything is.
- [51:54]
Marc Maron
Well, that's interesting because that's almost rebellious at this point.
- [52:00]
John Mulaney
I don't know if it's rebellious, but it was something I thought, I know this melody in my head and I'm not seeing it right now. And I also. They gave me the keys studio, so that's what we'll do.
- [52:14]
Marc Maron
But I watched. There's. One of my favorite moments in show business was Bob Dylan being presented with the lifetime achievement Grammy by Jack Nicholson.
- [52:25]
John Mulaney
Oh, yes, of course.
- [52:26]
Marc Maron
The best.
- [52:26]
John Mulaney
The best.
- [52:27]
Marc Maron
And then when Chandlering comes back out. Yeah.
- [52:31]
John Mulaney
Was it Bob and Jack are talking backstage about how they're gonna do more tv.
- [52:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [52:37]
John Mulaney
It's really. It's great. Cause Dylan seems to not. He tells that, you know, he does that thing about. Well, you know, even my father said.
- [52:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah, he said a lot of things.
- [52:48]
John Mulaney
Yeah. And even. Was it like, everyone will forsake you. Even your parents will. Something like.
- [52:55]
Marc Maron
You said that before that. Yeah, but it was that beat of, like, you know. Well, it's like my father always told me. And he waits, like, 15 seconds. He said a lot of things. And then there's that whole weirdness where Jack doesn't really know where to stand while Dylan's getting the award and he's moving around.
- [53:13]
John Mulaney
It's great.
- [53:13]
Marc Maron
Yeah, it's great. Because what used to be just human, just the human time frame is now kind of in the cringe column.
- [53:24]
John Mulaney
It's why I love the Rock and Roll hall of Fame induction.
- [53:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Because none of them are used to talking.
- [53:30]
John Mulaney
None of them are used to talking as you move down the line. Also, start with some of the fringe members and end with the who we consider the frontman.
- [53:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [53:38]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Don't go the opposite way. But they always go the opposite way. And then they get into someone who didn't get royalty. Like, come On Debbie, Come on, let me play. All right, fine. But they also. They couldn't have had more notice that they're gonna get an award.
- [53:56]
Marc Maron
I know.
- [53:57]
John Mulaney
And they couldn't have prepared less.
- [53:59]
Marc Maron
Well, they don't think to, you know, hire a writer.
- [54:02]
John Mulaney
And people who are shocked. Shocked. Ingenuous. That win awards and are shocked.
- [54:06]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [54:08]
John Mulaney
Still that once they get over the, like, hyperventilating, they dial into a tight, good speech that we all agree on is a good way to. And that these people just get up year after year and blow it.
- [54:20]
Marc Maron
So did you. Wait now, wait. Did you turn down the Oscars hosting it? Yeah, I did.
- [54:25]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [54:25]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [54:25]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [54:26]
Marc Maron
What was the thinking?
- [54:29]
John Mulaney
Well, they. I was very flattered. They came to me.
- [54:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [54:32]
John Mulaney
Must have been last summer. And I knew Jimmy Kimmel wasn't going to do it, and they offered it. And it was honestly that I had a lot going on and it's months and months of work.
- [54:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, I think Conan did a great job. I mean, the best job he's done on anything.
- [54:52]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Two totally different topics. And he came out and he not only was so funny, but he elevated the show to the point that I almost convinced myself I had seen these movies and I'd seen not a one of them.
- [55:03]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [55:03]
John Mulaney
I was like, yeah, this was a great year.
- [55:05]
Marc Maron
It was amazing.
- [55:06]
John Mulaney
This is a great year for me.
- [55:07]
Marc Maron
It was a great year.
- [55:07]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [55:08]
Marc Maron
But. But he also did that thing where, like, because I know him for so long, and I was really worried that he'd start sort of, you know, self erasing, which he does. You know, like, he'll do a joke and be like. He'll kind of, you know, take it apart.
- [55:22]
John Mulaney
Oh, interesting.
- [55:23]
Marc Maron
You know, it's an insecurity. It's a habit he does. He'll start playing with his nipples and dancing around or whatever. So, like, you know, the first, you know, fucking. The first couple jokes, I notice him starting to go that way. And then I'm like, come on, don't do it, dude. And then he just kind of, like, just locked in and owned the thing. Like, I'd never seen it.
- [55:44]
John Mulaney
Well, it's the same thing. I thought it as Mark Twain Awards. I went, oh, you have. He has stature.
- [55:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [55:49]
John Mulaney
When he's out there.
- [55:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [55:50]
John Mulaney
It's just this thing that has come to some.
- [55:53]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [55:54]
John Mulaney
Of those in our business where you go, that's Conan o' Brien.
- [55:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [55:57]
John Mulaney
And he's in control. And it's an amazing thing.
- [56:01]
Marc Maron
It took a long time. Yeah, it did. It wasn't always natural for Him.
- [56:04]
John Mulaney
But it was to me, as a fan, I was sure, you know.
- [56:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah, he's.
- [56:07]
John Mulaney
There was. Honestly, there was no point where I thought Conan's show wasn't great. I sort of knew later, through Rolling Stone or Bill Carter or something, that he was struggling. But as someone watching it.
- [56:21]
Marc Maron
Well, just as a comic. Cause you were a kid. But we were comics, and we were the sort of. Like, why this writer. Who is this guy? It's a comics job.
- [56:30]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:31]
Marc Maron
But, you know. But whatever. It felt like it was a time where it's like, that's generally a comics job. So there was actually this envy of, like, our job being taken.
- [56:39]
John Mulaney
That's very funny.
- [56:40]
Marc Maron
It's true, though. It's a different time, buddy.
- [56:43]
John Mulaney
Different time.
- [56:43]
Marc Maron
So you're gonna do Stand Up.
- [56:45]
John Mulaney
I like it very much.
- [56:47]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [56:48]
John Mulaney
But I'm in a bit like, after your last HBO special, did you. Do you forget in between specials how to.
- [56:56]
Marc Maron
How to what?
- [56:57]
John Mulaney
But the one before the page is taped.
- [56:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [56:59]
John Mulaney
I'm talking about what's been released to the public.
- [57:01]
Marc Maron
Yes. Yes, sir.
- [57:02]
John Mulaney
Did you forget how to. You forget how to do Stand up in between?
- [57:06]
Marc Maron
I'm afraid that I forget it after two weeks. But it's all pretty mental, I think. All you forget, all you. It's not forgetting. It's a rustiness. Because there's. After a certain point, there's some part of you that lives up there. And he'll generally show up.
- [57:19]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [57:20]
Marc Maron
But, you know, sometimes he's not in the same. He's not jiving quite right. If you get a little out of practice, like, I believe you have to keep that channel open to talking to an audience. But if that goes away, then there's a little bit of, like, all right, so you guys are waiting for me to do something.
- [57:36]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [57:36]
Marc Maron
But then the other guy steps in and goes, I got it.
- [57:39]
John Mulaney
Yeah. There's always this solid. He's not a trick pilot, but he can land a plane. And he comes. I'm just. We're not breaking new ground tonight.
- [57:48]
Marc Maron
Right?
- [57:49]
John Mulaney
This isn't a memorable set.
- [57:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but we're.
- [57:51]
John Mulaney
This isn't Tig at Largo. Yeah, yeah, but we're gonna land the plane. It's gonna be okay.
- [57:54]
Marc Maron
It's gonna be okay. Well, you gotta take the hit. That's the hardest thing. Really.
- [57:57]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [57:58]
Marc Maron
And fortunately, when you come out of a special, your confidence is pretty high, so you can take a few hits after that.
- [58:06]
John Mulaney
Well, then you schedule that first show that. Where you'll have to do an hour.
- [58:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [58:11]
John Mulaney
And you just keep thinking about the special going, wait, that's in there, too?
- [58:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, here's. I added some stuff to it since then.
- [58:19]
John Mulaney
Oh, I know. The worst. The worst.
- [58:22]
Marc Maron
Where you find it.
- [58:23]
John Mulaney
I do it every time. Yes. I record it. Then I have a few more dates, and suddenly the burden of the special is off. So I have this, like, more fertile mind. Come up with some great tags. Sometimes I figure out how to finish a story that I Totally, totally.
- [58:38]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I found a couple of things the other night, and I was like, God damn it. That would have been a nice callback. Was it at the store or was it. Yeah, I think it was at the store. It's all I've been doing since I got back. Yeah. I was able to put a couple of things together, and it was. The thing was, I was adding shit right up until the special the week before.
- [58:57]
John Mulaney
Like, there were.
- [58:58]
Marc Maron
There were a couple of pieces.
- [58:59]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [59:00]
Marc Maron
That just kind of like, there was a joke that was funny enough the way it was.
- [59:04]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [59:04]
Marc Maron
But the T. I knew the tag wasn't right, but it was good enough.
- [59:07]
John Mulaney
Good enough. Yeah.
- [59:08]
Marc Maron
And then, like, you know, three days before the special, it was delivered to me.
- [59:12]
John Mulaney
Oh, that's amazing.
- [59:13]
Marc Maron
Where it's sort of like, oh, it was right there.
- [59:15]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [59:16]
Marc Maron
And it's. It's perfect.
- [59:17]
John Mulaney
And even if in time for the special, even if you hadn't found the perfect one, it's great to just throw something in so that your brain is on Largo.
- [59:25]
Marc Maron
Totally. Yeah. I can't.
- [59:26]
John Mulaney
Yeah, we did Largo right before you went to Brooklyn to do it.
- [59:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [59:30]
John Mulaney
Right. And I remember you saying, like, I'm not gonna run the hour. I thought, that's a good idea.
- [59:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [59:34]
John Mulaney
You don't want to be too.
- [59:35]
Marc Maron
I didn't. I don't think.
- [59:36]
John Mulaney
I don't think you did.
- [59:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but I did do. I did three club shows in Vermont, you know, the week before.
- [59:44]
John Mulaney
Okay.
- [59:45]
Marc Maron
And. Cause I had a whole week, and I'm like, what am I doing? I got to shoot a special that Saturday. I'm just. Sit on my ass in New York for a week. So I did three shows at Vermont Comedy Club, and then I did one theater show in Portsmouth. But it was so funny because I'm like, this is where. Just do it. Do it at a comedy club. Don't, like, you know, riff around with the audience. Just stand before them with that detachment one has when they have a completed thing and fucking do it. Which is not my habit. My habit is always to sort of like, well, I'm gonna feel them for sure. And I was like, be a professional, fuck them. Do what you've prepared. And that's.
- [60:21]
John Mulaney
That. Isn't that what you said about your first half hour HBO half hour, is that you were like, I'm just going in, I'm not preparing.
- [60:28]
Marc Maron
Well, that was that. Yeah. And it feels like that, you know, it was great. But I don't know if it's this medicine I'm on or. But I was not frantic at all. And I knew the shit like top to bottom. And I had no fears of the material at all. And because I had done those four shows before, I went with that focus of like, you know, just, you know, did make some decisions. Like I knew going in that the political stuff up front that it's my nature to become sort of swaggery and self righteous with that type of material. And I made a decision. I'm like, try to just do it like casually, right? And then see how that works because then you won't have to switch gears so hard. And you know, I made that note a week, you know, in that week before, and I did it that way.
- [61:09]
John Mulaney
That's amazing.
- [61:10]
Marc Maron
Whatever. I'm just tooting my own horn.
- [61:11]
John Mulaney
Well, you had also already run it and run it. So you could.
- [61:13]
Marc Maron
Sure, yeah, yeah, I could move it. I could. I could play with it a little bit.
- [61:17]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [61:17]
Marc Maron
So what, what else is going on in terms of like. How's your fucking head, dude?
- [61:21]
John Mulaney
Pretty good. Pretty good.
- [61:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [61:23]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [61:24]
Marc Maron
Not squirrely.
- [61:25]
John Mulaney
Not squirrely.
- [61:26]
Marc Maron
How many? How. How long you got sober now?
- [61:30]
John Mulaney
Well, December will be five years.
- [61:32]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what they say.
- [61:35]
John Mulaney
You get your marbles back. That thing or what?
- [61:40]
Marc Maron
No, I have a darker one of those.
- [61:41]
John Mulaney
Go ahead.
- [61:43]
Marc Maron
Don't kill yourself in the first five years because you'd be killing the wrong person.
- [61:46]
John Mulaney
Oh yeah, I've heard that.
- [61:48]
Marc Maron
That's a good one, right?
- [61:48]
John Mulaney
That's a great one.
- [61:49]
Marc Maron
That's a good. That's not in the book.
- [61:51]
John Mulaney
No, I don't think it is that one. It might be in the end of the NA Book when it's like, you know, different people who wrote in.
- [62:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah, right, right, right, right. The stories.
- [62:03]
John Mulaney
Yeah, the stories. Yeah, stories at the end of the new NA book.
- [62:07]
Marc Maron
That one always got me. And then there was one I heard, God doesn't wake up and think he's you. That's a good one.
- [62:11]
John Mulaney
That's very funny.
- [62:13]
Marc Maron
You like that one?
- [62:14]
John Mulaney
That's very funny. Yeah, there's a lot of good ones.
- [62:16]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But are you actively doing the Thing.
- [62:21]
John Mulaney
I'm. Yeah, I'd say I'm in.
- [62:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [62:24]
John Mulaney
A good amount of recovery talk. Talk and work. Yeah.
- [62:28]
Marc Maron
With the dudes.
- [62:30]
John Mulaney
Got.
- [62:30]
Marc Maron
Got some dudes.
- [62:32]
John Mulaney
Well, the biggest thing is I see a great psychiatrist once a week.
- [62:35]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Like a psychiatrist. Full. Full doctor.
- [62:38]
John Mulaney
Full doctor.
- [62:38]
Marc Maron
Oh, look at that.
- [62:40]
John Mulaney
Addiction specialty.
- [62:41]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah.
- [62:42]
John Mulaney
Cover many other things.
- [62:43]
Marc Maron
Sure.
- [62:44]
John Mulaney
And yeah. It's like, no squirrely. No. The obsession's gone.
- [62:53]
Marc Maron
Thank God. That. Yeah. That should go by five. Yeah.
- [62:56]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah.
- [62:57]
Marc Maron
That's a fucking gift.
- [62:59]
John Mulaney
The. The. I don't exist in a lack of.
- [63:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [63:03]
John Mulaney
Drugs, you know. Whoa. Or just like.
- [63:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Any of it.
- [63:06]
John Mulaney
Yeah. A clonapin to fly home from. Yeah. I can't do it from penguins in Cedar Rapids or, you know, landing and having to finish a draft of something. So I need.
- [63:18]
Marc Maron
Right.
- [63:19]
John Mulaney
60 milligrams of Adderall.
- [63:20]
Marc Maron
Right. You just do coffee, all of that. Doing coffee.
- [63:23]
John Mulaney
I do lots of. Lots of. Have lots of caffeine.
- [63:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Lots of it. And I'm like. I'm eating these nicotines again. A lot of nicotine.
- [63:31]
John Mulaney
Did you ever stop?
- [63:33]
Marc Maron
I did. I stopped for like three years.
- [63:35]
John Mulaney
Really?
- [63:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Now I'm on a mixture of lozenges and. And the zins. Yeah, I stopped totally. And it was fine, though. It was fine.
- [63:42]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [63:42]
Marc Maron
But you know what? You know what's not fine about it? It's. It's that sort of like, you know, oh, how do I reward myself?
- [63:50]
John Mulaney
Yeah. For sure.
- [63:51]
Marc Maron
It's really.
- [63:51]
John Mulaney
I have one non alcoholic beer after.
- [63:53]
Marc Maron
Each episode of the time I've been drinking those.
- [63:56]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [63:57]
Marc Maron
And I never used to.
- [63:58]
John Mulaney
No.
- [63:59]
Marc Maron
But now they're better.
- [64:00]
John Mulaney
They're better. And it just feels for some reason for like.
- [64:03]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [64:04]
John Mulaney
I could never handle, like a virgin anything.
- [64:07]
Marc Maron
No.
- [64:07]
John Mulaney
Somehow feels more grown up.
- [64:08]
Marc Maron
Well, the beers now, like, there's people putting a lot of. A lot of thought and heart.
- [64:13]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [64:13]
Marc Maron
Into the non alcoholic beer beverages.
- [64:16]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [64:16]
Marc Maron
And they taste like fucking beer.
- [64:18]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [64:18]
Marc Maron
They don't taste like. Like almost beer.
- [64:21]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [64:21]
Marc Maron
They're not lacking.
- [64:22]
John Mulaney
No, they're not. They're. They go through the process. I believe they actually go almost up to the fermenting process. Yeah.
- [64:29]
Marc Maron
Right. Yeah.
- [64:30]
John Mulaney
Versus creating a fake drink that tastes like beer.
- [64:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I just, like. Because I've been thinking about it like drugs lately, you know, because I think I saw some on TV or whatever. But it really is about that knowledge that has to be drilled pretty far into you that, you know, you can't even do one. One thing with any safety at all.
- [64:53]
John Mulaney
Not at all.
- [64:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [64:55]
John Mulaney
But I don't think there was never a point in the past five years where I deluded myself at all, that I never for a second thought, maybe I'll just do this this time.
- [65:05]
Marc Maron
But even when I think about, like.
- [65:07]
John Mulaney
The question was early, early, early 2020, like, well, do I just dive back into oblivion?
- [65:15]
Marc Maron
That's right.
- [65:15]
John Mulaney
It wasn't like I could probably, you know, boot some Adderall every day and then come down with a Xanax.
- [65:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [65:26]
John Mulaney
There's never that.
- [65:27]
Marc Maron
No. No. You always knew, like, yeah, am I willing to commit my life to this again?
- [65:31]
John Mulaney
It was like, am I becoming Batman?
- [65:33]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [65:35]
John Mulaney
Because I'll have to get all this stuff.
- [65:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah. The lights in the sky.
- [65:38]
John Mulaney
Yeah. I'll be spending money. I'll be out late, and I'll be lying. I'll make mistakes and people will be like, that bad night. And I'll be like, trust me, it's all part of a plan.
- [65:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Well, I. The one thing I think about with not regularity, but, like, I think, like, well, when I get old and, you know, my responsibilities change. Couldn't I just smoke weed all the time?
- [66:01]
John Mulaney
I don't know.
- [66:02]
Marc Maron
I know.
- [66:03]
John Mulaney
I don't know.
- [66:04]
Marc Maron
Well, because there's that slippery slow. Hey, it's legal. And you know, it doesn't ruin your. But.
- [66:08]
John Mulaney
Oh, legal, Never. Yeah.
- [66:10]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [66:10]
John Mulaney
But most things I did were legal.
- [66:12]
Marc Maron
That's right. That's. Booze is legal.
- [66:14]
John Mulaney
Just needed a prescription.
- [66:15]
Marc Maron
But even. But, like, the weed now and like. And just knowing that if I did it, it's always like. Like, it's not like, maybe I'll just do a hit. It's like, I know that if I do that, that's gonna be my life for sure. That within two days I'll be like, I gotta go to the weed store.
- [66:33]
John Mulaney
Oh, 100%.
- [66:34]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah.
- [66:34]
John Mulaney
It's like buying sunglasses.
- [66:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [66:37]
John Mulaney
I just can't stop. And I freak out when I don't. I'm the. One of the greatest gifts is now I have a phone and car keys and I guess a wallet and that's it. The lack of having to make sure I have something on me also.
- [66:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah, I got that with the. I. I get that fixed with the zins. The. The panic of like. And then you get the panic and the reward.
- [67:04]
John Mulaney
I remembered him.
- [67:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Yeah. And. And, well, the phone gives you that, too. I mean, if you don't know where your phone is. That's pretty. That's a rough few minutes.
- [67:12]
John Mulaney
I guess so. Yeah.
- [67:13]
Marc Maron
Where you're like, oh, shit, did I leave it at the But I actually.
- [67:16]
John Mulaney
I have this weird thrill now where.
- [67:19]
Marc Maron
I hope I've lost the phone forever. Yeah. With the Zenzo now, because it's illegal to sell flavored ones in California because of the kids. I had to find a guy that's got him. So now I got the two layers of drug.
- [67:32]
John Mulaney
Right, right, right. Yeah.
- [67:33]
Marc Maron
They're like, where'd you get the peppermint ones? I got a guy.
- [67:35]
John Mulaney
I got a guy. Yeah, that's okay. So that it probably feels good to have a guy. And like, he's got rules. Like. No, come on, man, it's 9:00pm you know, like, he's got. Got hours and standards, you know, It's.
- [67:49]
Marc Maron
A little early in the day.
- [67:50]
John Mulaney
Yeah, well, yeah, it's a little.
- [67:51]
Marc Maron
No, they just got to know you. You know, you go through the first two, like. Yeah. And they give them to you and then they know you, and then they. They don't look weird when they're going under the counter.
- [68:00]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [68:01]
Marc Maron
It's not a street corner thing. It's.
- [68:02]
John Mulaney
No, no, it's a store. Yeah, it's a store. And which one, by the way, if I know you talk about in your special. What medication are you taking or do you.
- [68:11]
Marc Maron
Oh, I just took. I'm just taking the busporin.
- [68:14]
John Mulaney
Oh, which one's that?
- [68:15]
Marc Maron
It's a sort of a small net dopamine thing that's like, for anxiety. It's not like a full ssri, but it just works on this one area. And I think it's very. The joke I had about it being adverse to SSRIs is the DOC says, well, there's this other stuff I can give you that generally doesn't work for people. I'm like, that sounds like the right drug for me.
- [68:41]
John Mulaney
Document. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [68:44]
Marc Maron
Well, no, because I didn't want to have any of the brain fog or any of that stuff, but I do think it's funny.
- [68:49]
John Mulaney
There's also these things like MAO inhibitors that were sort of the precursor of antidepressants, but you can't be on. You can't. I think you can't eat certain cheeses.
- [69:02]
Marc Maron
Oh, right. Yeah.
- [69:02]
John Mulaney
Certain foods would, like, have a. Have a terrible chemical reaction with them.
- [69:06]
Marc Maron
It's like grapefruit and statins.
- [69:08]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [69:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [69:09]
John Mulaney
But my doctor was like, oh, they're. They're probably the best drug. People just couldn't handle not eating the cheese.
- [69:14]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
- [69:14]
John Mulaney
I was like, wow, people. Really?
- [69:16]
Marc Maron
Do you do a thing? You got one?
- [69:17]
John Mulaney
I take Wellbutrin and Zoloft.
- [69:20]
Marc Maron
Wow. So the well that. So that balances it out, because Wellbutrin will jack you up a little bit.
- [69:26]
John Mulaney
So I can't recall if I ever had that, but I. Maybe it was.
- [69:31]
Marc Maron
It used to be marketed to help people quit smoking under a different name.
- [69:35]
John Mulaney
Yes.
- [69:36]
Marc Maron
What was it called? It started with a Z, I think. And then you learned that. It was like, oh, it's just Wellbutrin.
- [69:41]
John Mulaney
Was it Chantix?
- [69:42]
Marc Maron
Chantix, maybe. Yeah. And I remember I was on that, and it definitely jacked me up. But everyone's going to respond differently.
- [69:49]
John Mulaney
You know, I started Wellbutrin at a time when I still used a lot of amphetamines.
- [69:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [69:54]
John Mulaney
And. Oh, my God. So I don't recall.
- [69:57]
Marc Maron
Right, right. And it's working for you, this combination?
- [70:00]
John Mulaney
It has been. Yeah.
- [70:01]
Marc Maron
No. No side effects. You're not gonna get fat.
- [70:04]
John Mulaney
It's been a while, so if there's a side effect. I'm so used to it.
- [70:09]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [70:09]
John Mulaney
I think I had some stomach issues with Zoloft, but they went away. And I might reduce Zoloft. In fact, I am currently reducing Zoloft a little.
- [70:17]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [70:18]
John Mulaney
And I haven't noticed anything yet.
- [70:20]
Marc Maron
You know, I'm interviewing your wife tomorrow.
- [70:21]
John Mulaney
Yeah, I know.
- [70:25]
Marc Maron
Isn't that wild?
- [70:26]
John Mulaney
That's wild.
- [70:26]
Marc Maron
Yeah. How's that going?
- [70:28]
John Mulaney
Great.
- [70:29]
Marc Maron
Okay. Good.
- [70:30]
John Mulaney
Oh, so good.
- [70:32]
Marc Maron
All right. Take it easy.
- [70:33]
John Mulaney
No, you asked, I'm telling you.
- [70:36]
Marc Maron
Okay. Well, I'm good. I'm glad.
- [70:37]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [70:37]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I just don't want you to overkill it.
- [70:40]
John Mulaney
I know.
- [70:40]
Marc Maron
And so people go like, I don't know.
- [70:42]
John Mulaney
I know. I know how the public works. I understand perception.
- [70:48]
Marc Maron
I'll tell you one thing, and I'll tell her tomorrow. She's fucking great in this show, dude.
- [70:52]
John Mulaney
She's great on that show.
- [70:53]
Marc Maron
Great.
- [70:55]
John Mulaney
Really? And just wait.
- [70:57]
Marc Maron
Just wait till the last one.
- [70:59]
John Mulaney
Well, you'll see.
- [71:00]
Marc Maron
Well, no, I've watched all of them.
- [71:02]
John Mulaney
Oh, to the last one. Oh, yeah. You're in the media. Yeah.
- [71:04]
Marc Maron
I mean, because I gotta talk to her.
- [71:06]
John Mulaney
Talking to your listeners, and I haven't seen.
- [71:09]
Marc Maron
Well, by the time we put this up, it'll all have been aired. But. But I haven't seen her in a long time do stuff.
- [71:16]
John Mulaney
And after we had our son.
- [71:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [71:19]
John Mulaney
And then she was diagnosed with cancer. We. She was. She was. She was not working for.
- [71:25]
Marc Maron
And she's all good for now.
- [71:27]
John Mulaney
She's still on a course of treatment. That will be a few years.
- [71:34]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
- [71:35]
John Mulaney
But they did catch it, though. Those aggressive. They catch it at a. At a. Good.
- [71:41]
Marc Maron
Oh, good.
- [71:41]
John Mulaney
If there's Any good. But yeah, the short answer is she's got. You know, you just don't say in the clear yet.
- [71:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. But she's so fucking good in this. It's like. It's not even, like. Because I don't know her, it's not like, oh, it's a perfect role for her. She just acts the fuck out of it.
- [71:59]
John Mulaney
Yeah. She makes. I mean, I talked to her in between, you know, she come home. How it was it. I sort of was vaguely aware of what the show is about. But, like, she makes the most interesting choices. And when I've talked to her about running lines for something I'm doing, the thing I always think to do is change the words.
- [72:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [72:19]
John Mulaney
I go, well, I know how to get the emotion across. I'll just change every word you have here. I'll put it in a different way. It's really interesting to watch, like, a real actor who can work within the words. Yeah. Work within the words.
- [72:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I think it's.
- [72:32]
John Mulaney
I only realized that recently. I thought, oh, you're figuring it out with what they wrote.
- [72:37]
Marc Maron
That's the job.
- [72:38]
John Mulaney
Whereas I'm like, I'll show up 10 minutes early and go, hey, right here. Can I say this instead?
- [72:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [72:44]
John Mulaney
I wrote some pretty good lines.
- [72:45]
Marc Maron
For yourself. Yeah. I know you guys are writers, but.
- [72:48]
John Mulaney
I know you guys are writing. I'm also a writer. You know, I did a little sketch.
- [72:50]
Marc Maron
Comedy and the kids. How's that treating you? How's it changing you?
- [72:57]
John Mulaney
I just. I don't know if I changed. I doubled.
- [73:01]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [73:01]
John Mulaney
Like, I might. I expanded where I can do. I almost feel like I can do more. Less of a trade off and more like I've just become.
- [73:18]
Marc Maron
You integrated it.
- [73:19]
John Mulaney
Yeah. But also, I genuinely feel like my brain doubled in size. Like we knocked a wall down.
- [73:25]
Marc Maron
Well, it's the kid wall.
- [73:26]
John Mulaney
And there was all this space.
- [73:27]
Marc Maron
Well, also, like, you know, I think that you're wired for the emotional connection if you're a normal human being.
- [73:33]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [73:33]
Marc Maron
Like, you have kids and the part of you that goes, oh, you're supposed to love them, should kick in pretty quick.
- [73:38]
John Mulaney
Immediate. It wasn't even that. It was, oh, oh, hi again. That was the real feeling.
- [73:43]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [73:45]
John Mulaney
Especially with my daughter.
- [73:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [73:47]
John Mulaney
Oh, okay. I know you.
- [73:49]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And you're gonna be here a while.
- [73:51]
John Mulaney
Yeah. And I have. We are so. We have the sweetest, funniest, nicest kids. I tell you this, like. Yeah. You can't oversell it. Cause it sounds disingenuous. No, no. I'm in a very, very happy time. Yeah, I'm in a really happy time.
- [74:11]
Marc Maron
Aren't you glad? You can appreciate it?
- [74:13]
John Mulaney
Yeah, I totally can. And I find I can be more of a psychopath in my work because I go home and I go, oh, these people really like me.
- [74:25]
Marc Maron
Show's over. I can just be myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [74:28]
John Mulaney
Everyone here really likes me.
- [74:32]
Marc Maron
You don't believe everybody else, though.
- [74:36]
John Mulaney
Whatever. It.
- [74:37]
Marc Maron
It's just. Different relationship.
- [74:38]
John Mulaney
This is a different relationship.
- [74:39]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [74:40]
John Mulaney
You know, because they're my children. Wife.
- [74:42]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah. I guess you gotta. You gotta suck, you know, kind of take it in while you can. Because I. From what I understand, there are periods where they might not like you as much.
- [74:51]
John Mulaney
Yeah. There are times.
- [74:52]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Can you think. Do you think yourself as a teenager, like, I put my parents to hell at some. At certain points, yeah.
- [75:03]
John Mulaney
I had a slightly different relationship where I was trying to keep my parents separate from whatever I was doing that was a problem. And I really felt like I felt quite noble in this pursuit.
- [75:16]
Marc Maron
You figured it out.
- [75:17]
John Mulaney
And when I would get caught, when the two would meet, I would get mad at my parents because they weren't giving me credit for how much I tried to keep this away from them. I was like the head of the CIA talking to the president. Like, do you know what the fuck I do over here? It's not for you to know about. Get out of my personal life. I remember thinking as a kid, I'm going to try to keep my personal life separate from my family.
- [75:45]
Marc Maron
And you're pretty successful at it, apparently. Well, I mean, as you got older, it seems like the amount of surprise that everyone had, you know, when you were kind of. When you hit the wall. Because, you know, like, a lot of people, I'm surprised. Yeah, no, no, totally.
- [76:00]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [76:00]
Marc Maron
I mean, outside of your inner circle, who were probably just concerned.
- [76:04]
John Mulaney
You, I had talked to months earlier. Remember that when you're trying early pandemic. When I was like, hey, hey. You know about. You know how you've ever heard of relapse? Yeah.
- [76:15]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I don't know if I gave you good advice.
- [76:17]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, you did.
- [76:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah. But like, it's so funny because for somebody like me, and I don't know if I told you this, you know, when. When you went through all that shit, my response was like, well, good for him. That makes him much more interesting.
- [76:32]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [76:33]
Marc Maron
Like, he, like, he's a real deal. This guy's the real deal.
- [76:36]
John Mulaney
That was the first thing Lauren said to me when I saw Him. After all that, he went, oh, you finally became interest that demon people get. People were surprised. And also, there is something about going through something very human in front of people where it. I mean, certainly I don't need to tell you that, but, like, there's also. Rather than feel like, oh, are you all disappointed of me? There's this great, like, great extra familiarity with the audience from it.
- [77:12]
Marc Maron
Totally. Because, like, it's like, it's. It's. You know, you float in this ether when you're not being candid on any level.
- [77:20]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [77:21]
Marc Maron
In your art, where you know that you're just a. You're. You're boxed in and you're entertainer. But then when all this human shit happens, you're going to get people that are like, fuck him. But you. Most of the people are going to be like, yeah, I had a brother who had. I've been through that. Or whatever they did.
- [77:35]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Whatever it is.
- [77:36]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How'd you handle all that fucking pushback when you got divorced? So you disappointed a lot of girls, I think, or something.
- [77:49]
John Mulaney
I don't recall exactly. I was focused on a couple things at that time. One, I'm in, like, month three or four of sobriety. Of sobriety. And I wouldn't even say I had to shut it all out because it all got back to me.
- [78:08]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [78:08]
John Mulaney
But the. The crisis at hand was, you know, like, I'll keep the boy alive. And then. And then we are into the summer, and my son's born in November.
- [78:23]
Marc Maron
Oh, yeah. So.
- [78:24]
John Mulaney
So what was happening in my life was not. It didn't really rhyme with what was hap. What was being said out there, which.
- [78:32]
Marc Maron
Is, like, almost always the case.
- [78:35]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [78:36]
Marc Maron
Like, what's being said out there is just this weird kind of, you know, beast of its own.
- [78:42]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [78:42]
Marc Maron
It feeds itself.
- [78:43]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Well, sometimes you're going through the thing everyone's talking about, and sometimes you go, no, that's.
- [78:48]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [78:49]
John Mulaney
In the past, actually.
- [78:50]
Marc Maron
Yeah. You guys gonna have to let this go.
- [78:53]
John Mulaney
Other things.
- [78:54]
Marc Maron
Yeah, yeah.
- [78:54]
John Mulaney
You know, like, I. Yeah. I have a whole other thing where I'm.
- [78:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Trying to shame.
- [78:58]
John Mulaney
Chain smoking and. Yeah.
- [79:00]
Marc Maron
And trying to keep a kid alive.
- [79:02]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [79:02]
Marc Maron
And trying to figure out how to do that.
- [79:04]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [79:05]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And these people are like, what an asshole.
- [79:07]
John Mulaney
And be like, wow. Wow. Without coke, I've gained a lot of weight.
- [79:12]
Marc Maron
Did you?
- [79:12]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [79:13]
Marc Maron
But you never got fat.
- [79:15]
John Mulaney
I'll tell you this.
- [79:16]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [79:16]
John Mulaney
A critic saw me at City Winery.
- [79:22]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [79:22]
John Mulaney
And he wrote as if. It's so funny with everything. I went through that, I still zeroed in on that. He wrote, he looks healthier. He looks heavier. And I was like, just the first part. We don't need the second part.
- [79:36]
Marc Maron
His suit doesn't fit.
- [79:37]
John Mulaney
Yeah, his suit. The buttons are pulling. Just say he looks healthier.
- [79:43]
Marc Maron
Well, you get that kind of like weird rehab puffiness.
- [79:46]
John Mulaney
Oh, my God. I mean, I was kind of a Plates of carbs. I was quite a cigarette and amphetamine person. You were smoking all the time, really? I quit a couple weeks. I quit in early November, 2021.
- [80:01]
Marc Maron
But was that something you did as a kid, too?
- [80:04]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [80:04]
Marc Maron
Oh, you smoked your whole life?
- [80:06]
John Mulaney
Yeah, I smoked my whole life. Yeah. I got a chest X ray recently, and they said, when? How long did you smoke? And I thought, let's see, I was 13. And I quit when I was 39.
- [80:19]
Marc Maron
Me too, dude.
- [80:20]
John Mulaney
And they were like, oh, 26 years. And I'm like, yeah. When you say it like that.
- [80:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [80:25]
John Mulaney
And I said, do you count the teen years? And they go, yeah, yeah.
- [80:31]
Marc Maron
It's fucking crazy, dude. 14. I started when I was 14.
- [80:35]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [80:35]
Marc Maron
And I can't, like.
- [80:36]
John Mulaney
Did your parents smoke?
- [80:37]
Marc Maron
My mom smoked occasionally, but it wasn't.
- [80:39]
John Mulaney
Like a house where the kids are allowed to smoke.
- [80:42]
Marc Maron
No, but like, my high school, we could smoke.
- [80:45]
John Mulaney
That's so interesting.
- [80:46]
Marc Maron
Well, this, like, There was like 3,400 kids in my high school. It was a public high school. What are they going to do?
- [80:50]
John Mulaney
They smoked because it was. Oh, yeah. No, if you could stop them, you would get to. You would get. Saturday jug, they called it. If you.
- [80:59]
Marc Maron
No, they couldn't. They couldn't contain it. It's not like you could do it in the school, but you could definitely smoke. Yeah, I went to a camp where you could smoke.
- [81:06]
John Mulaney
That's so funny.
- [81:08]
Marc Maron
Music and arts camp when I was 15. I remember my aunt bought me a cart in a Marlboro Red. Just smoking it up.
- [81:18]
John Mulaney
Just smoking at camp.
- [81:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah. And playing guitar. It was like the perfect thing.
- [81:23]
John Mulaney
I was always fascinated by those kids where you go to their house and they'd just be smoking and their mom would come in and ask for a lighter and everyone was smoking.
- [81:31]
Marc Maron
Yeah. It was a rare thing, but it was kind of amazing.
- [81:33]
John Mulaney
It was kind of amazing. And I couldn't have envied it more.
- [81:37]
Marc Maron
That they were normalized that much. Yeah, no, I mean, I guess I really quit in 2000, you know, just when I got sober, I think. 99. By 2001, I was done. 63, 73, 83, 93. Yeah.
- [81:53]
John Mulaney
Sorry. Do you do you have two periods? Is it like Comedy Store? Sam Kinison. Then did you actually stop everything or were you not really, really sober till the early.
- [82:05]
Marc Maron
Dude. It took me. The first time I got sober was.
- [82:10]
John Mulaney
1987, and that was, like, total abstinence.
- [82:16]
Marc Maron
I went to rehab. I left LA after that Kennison thing, and I was psychotic. I had coached myself into psychosis.
- [82:23]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [82:24]
Marc Maron
And, you know, I was hearing voices in my head, and I had to leave because a voice told me. And, you know, all I could. All.
- [82:30]
John Mulaney
I did it. Name the place you should go to.
- [82:32]
Marc Maron
Well, I just went to Tson. I did go to Tucson.
- [82:35]
John Mulaney
Oh, very nice.
- [82:36]
Marc Maron
Oddly, because my brother was in school there, and I didn't know what to do. I packed up everything I had in my car and I just left in a panic. And I. All I knew is, like, I gotta get a new passport because I'm gonna have to get out. And I didn't even know why.
- [82:48]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [82:49]
Marc Maron
But then I got home and I'd gotten a month or a space from the store, and I said, I gotta. I gotta check in, because I'm like, you know, I'm. You know, I'm at this weird point where if I don't have silver pinky rings on and a skull on my shirt, I'm gonna be in trouble. I was out of my.
- [83:06]
John Mulaney
My mind.
- [83:07]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [83:07]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [83:08]
Marc Maron
So then. So then I went to. I thought I was seeing, you know, the signs, man.
- [83:13]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [83:15]
Marc Maron
And. But then skulls. Yeah. Well, they were protecting me. And you'll see in other early pictures, there had to be some representation of the skull. Yeah, I had a little skull pinky ring. I had a skull on my shirt. But. But then I would stay sober for. I never got the program, so I would stay sober for, like, a year and a half, max. So I got out of rehab, went back to New York, started over again. Within a certain. Within a year and a half, I was using again, you know, went to California, kind of, like, sobered up here and there. And then, you know, again, I get totally sober for like, a year and a half. It wasn't until I met, you know, Mishnah in, you know, 99, where, you know, she kind of walked me through the basic stuff about the program.
- [83:58]
John Mulaney
Okay.
- [83:59]
Marc Maron
Like, I did not get the program.
- [84:00]
John Mulaney
Right, Right.
- [84:01]
Marc Maron
So it took me. Whatever. Like, I've got, what, 25 years this year? 26. 26 years this year. So that would have been 99. But the first time I got sober was in 87. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [84:16]
John Mulaney
Periods of abstinence Then falling back. Then.
- [84:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah, but falling back. But, you know, by the time I met her, I was. I was on the. You know, I was bloated and sweaty, and I had kind of resigned myself to the marriage I was in. And I thought, like, my thinking was I was hosting a local TV show in New York for. I can't remember the station. I'm like, all right, well, if I can just get jobs like this, I'll be okay.
- [84:41]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [84:41]
Marc Maron
And I just wanted to be dead.
- [84:43]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [84:44]
Marc Maron
And then Mishnah just, like, appeared out of the clouds, and I'm like, I want to be with her. And it just so happened she was sober. I lucked out.
- [84:53]
John Mulaney
Wow.
- [84:54]
Marc Maron
So all the basic ideas of. We were going to meetings two, three times a day. I had nothing to do.
- [85:00]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [85:01]
Marc Maron
So when I first got sober, you know, you get that crew running around New York doing two or three meetings a day, totally locked in. Sponsored.
- [85:09]
John Mulaney
Yeah. No, I left the second rehab I was in, and my counselor was like, a minimum 180 in 90 days. You have to do two a day. 490 day.
- [85:20]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [85:20]
John Mulaney
He was like, there's no world where you're gonna be fine. Occasionally going to a. He's like. He's like, it's the pandemic. They're all on zoom. You're gonna go to a minimum of two.
- [85:34]
Marc Maron
Did you.
- [85:34]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [85:35]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I mean, like, I. It was you. Well, that was the thing that stuck with me. It's like, you got to put it your first. And, like, you're lucky the pandemic was happening in a way, because you. To put your sobriety first, above and beyond everything else, and the belief that everything will fall in place after that is.
- [85:54]
John Mulaney
Is a solid thing, though, with my ego, it didn't. It was weird because it felt like everything shut down because I had a drug problem.
- [86:02]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I can't hold my guy.
- [86:03]
John Mulaney
Yeah. I was like, everything. I was like, yeah. Everyone's. Everyone's taking this hard. And we're all. We're all just pausing. No one's going to work. Everyone's getting their food.
- [86:12]
Marc Maron
If I come over with a mask.
- [86:14]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [86:14]
Marc Maron
Can I still get the drugs?
- [86:16]
John Mulaney
Oh, please. I didn't even know that the nasal tests hurt until well after getting sick.
- [86:25]
Marc Maron
Oh, really?
- [86:26]
John Mulaney
Because people used to complain.
- [86:27]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [86:28]
John Mulaney
Like, oh, they stick it up there. And I was so numb.
- [86:30]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Oh, really?
- [86:31]
John Mulaney
That I'd go to get different Covid tests for things. In the early pandemic. I was like, what do people complain about?
- [86:37]
Marc Maron
Yes. Yeah. I. It. It. It took a Long time. And. And sadly, or maybe not, I don't. I don't go to many meetings. You know, one of my best friends is, you know, very sober, saying, I talk to him often. There's people I call. But I don't go to. To many meetings, and it would probably. Wouldn't kill me. But I find that there's other issues, like, I'm not worried about drinking or using drugs, but there are some weird, you know, al Ani, you know, graduate level recovery, graduate level that I could probably engage in. Then I don't quite do it, but I'm back in therapy. We'll see what happens. Yeah, and I'm old, dude.
- [87:18]
John Mulaney
But you're young.
- [87:19]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [87:20]
John Mulaney
Some people are not young. You're just you.
- [87:24]
Marc Maron
Right. Thank God. And that probably has something to do with, you know, my commitment to boots and. And no kids and.
- [87:30]
John Mulaney
Do you wear any skulls now?
- [87:32]
Marc Maron
I don't, dude. I don't have any skulls.
- [87:35]
John Mulaney
So you're really vulnerable.
- [87:36]
Marc Maron
Very vulnerable. I don't have the. The constant reminder of death is firmly planted in my head now, so I don't need to stave it off with my skull shirts.
- [87:46]
John Mulaney
So are you gonna go on a vacation come this fall when you're done?
- [87:49]
Marc Maron
I don't know if I know how.
- [87:51]
John Mulaney
I know, but. Are you gonna try?
- [87:54]
Marc Maron
You think I should?
- [87:55]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Were you doing. You were doing the podcast into the IFC show? Into the podcast.
- [88:01]
Marc Maron
I did the podcast no matter what I was doing.
- [88:03]
John Mulaney
Dude, that's crazy.
- [88:04]
Marc Maron
It's crazy.
- [88:05]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [88:07]
Marc Maron
Well, I mean, I might spend time in New Mexico, but I don't worry about somewhere else.
- [88:12]
John Mulaney
How about somewhere? How about going somewhere else?
- [88:14]
Marc Maron
Well, we might have to leave.
- [88:16]
John Mulaney
Wait, do you mean, like, to see family or.
- [88:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah, well, not so much to see family. Family, Yeah. A vacation. I used to go to Hawaii frequently. Hey, I used to go to Kauai.
- [88:26]
John Mulaney
Like, but once I brought.
- [88:28]
Marc Maron
Well, yeah, exactly. But once I brought the fourth girlfriend to Kauai and I was saying things. I've been here. Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:36]
John Mulaney
That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. This land's very healing. I told that to my last three girlfriends.
- [88:40]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Or wives.
- [88:41]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [88:42]
Marc Maron
I don't know. Where have you gone?
- [88:44]
John Mulaney
I do. Hawaii is great. What do I really like? You could go to Ireland.
- [88:50]
Marc Maron
I like Ireland. I went to Ireland with Lynn and I go there to work. I didn't go this year. I'm kind of sad about it.
- [88:56]
John Mulaney
I was at the Kilkenny festival the same time as you.
- [88:58]
Marc Maron
I think that was a fucking nightmare.
- [89:00]
John Mulaney
It was.
- [89:00]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [89:01]
John Mulaney
You were going on runs I remember you're the first person I knew that ran without music playing.
- [89:05]
Marc Maron
Oh, interesting. Interesting memory.
- [89:08]
John Mulaney
I just thought it sounded that. That, you know what? That when you were asking about taking time off and being at peace with yourself. I have noticed that I cannot do most things in life without music playing or some audio playing.
- [89:25]
Marc Maron
I just find with exercise, running specifically. I mean, I understand the music thing, and I've done that a lot.
- [89:31]
John Mulaney
I remember you told me, now you just listen to your breath. And I was like, that sounds.
- [89:34]
Marc Maron
But also, time goes by quicker when you don't listen to music because, yeah, there's something about songs that measure time. I just find that if I'm running without music, my brain wanders like it does in real life. Then all of a sudden, time goes by. But, like, with songs, I'm like, all right, I know this next.
- [89:50]
John Mulaney
Oh, right, right. Here's the bridge.
- [89:52]
Marc Maron
Right. Or whatever. Or, you know, whatever your song list is.
- [89:55]
John Mulaney
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [89:56]
Marc Maron
But that's just crazy. That's weird that, like, I have been exercising for a long time. Yeah. Ireland is fucking great, dude.
- [90:02]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [90:02]
Marc Maron
Do you journey? Do you take trips with friends? Like, I always picture you guys are like, I talked to Kroll the other day. I'm like, are you guys spending family time together?
- [90:10]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [90:11]
Marc Maron
You do you bring the kids and all that stuff?
- [90:13]
John Mulaney
Yeah, well, our kids are close enough in age. And then Dan Levy, he's got, what, nine kids? He has nine now.
- [90:23]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Wow.
- [90:24]
John Mulaney
And they live in an ultra Orthodox community on Beverly. And the Brick, he's got three. And his daughter Penny was born across the hall from my son.
- [90:34]
Marc Maron
Oh, wow.
- [90:34]
John Mulaney
Same. Same night.
- [90:35]
Marc Maron
Isn't that nice, though? So do you guys do the whole. Are you, like, traveling, like. Yeah, we'll do, like, Newhart and Rickles.
- [90:42]
John Mulaney
Yes. And then, you know, I'll get some terrible New Year's Eve show, and he'll open the show and we'll bring our.
- [90:48]
Marc Maron
Families and make a vacation out of it.
- [90:50]
John Mulaney
Yeah. And we always think, this'll be great. We'll get adjoining suites and, you know, then just. It's just we're all in one living room with kids running around.
- [90:57]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Not great.
- [90:59]
John Mulaney
Different kinds.
- [90:59]
Marc Maron
But if you've gone to Europe and stuff.
- [91:02]
John Mulaney
I have gone to Europe with Dan Levy, but it was for stand up.
- [91:05]
Marc Maron
Oh. But never, like, let's bring the families skiing.
- [91:07]
John Mulaney
But we would. No, I won't ski. Oh, I'm not gonna do that.
- [91:11]
Marc Maron
Have you ever.
- [91:12]
John Mulaney
Yeah, when I was younger and now I think about.
- [91:14]
Marc Maron
It comes right back. But it's A little exhausting. You gotta get way down the line.
- [91:19]
John Mulaney
Tony Danza and that. That. That awful Michael Smith. Kennedy or whatever.
- [91:23]
Marc Maron
Oh, the tree thing. Sonny Bono.
- [91:25]
John Mulaney
Doesn't it seem. It seems too wild. Yeah. It seems too dangerous.
- [91:30]
Marc Maron
All right, I get it.
- [91:31]
John Mulaney
Also, like, if I will say this, we're talking about being in a great place in life. I do sometimes think, like, yeah, but what if you blew out your knee and you couldn't, you know, work out and go do. Stand up and do all these things.
- [91:43]
Marc Maron
And you had a pain medication prescription for sure. That's a. That's.
- [91:48]
John Mulaney
But I do. I do think about that in terms of, like, any injury that would lay me up. I'm like, you'd be okay. You have a wonderful family and support system and a wonderful wife. But, you know, let's not. Let's not pursue it.
- [91:59]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Let's not strap skis. Yeah.
- [92:01]
John Mulaney
Yeah. At the Aspen Comedy Festival.
- [92:03]
Marc Maron
Yeah. I had some dental work done. They gave me an oxycodone prescription. And it was one of those things where, you know, I. I know well enough about stuff, and oddly, like, I only took one.
- [92:14]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [92:15]
Marc Maron
The day of. And then I'm like. And then they sat in my cabinet for a long time, and then I didn't feel any craving or anything, but I'm like, dude, just throw them away.
- [92:24]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Yeah. Why are they still.
- [92:25]
Marc Maron
And I threw them down the toilet, and I got two emails from fucking concerned, progressive, sensitive people that said, you really shouldn't throw them down the toilet because it goes into the water supply. I'm like, I don't give a fuck. We're gonna throw them away. Like, it's like people that, you know, take the batteries, you know, paint the water supply. Yeah.
- [92:45]
John Mulaney
It's going to get into the water.
- [92:46]
Marc Maron
Yeah. The oxycodone. Not. Not the, you know, tens of thousands of gallons of Prozac in people's piss. It's my oxycodone.
- [92:53]
John Mulaney
It's your oxycodone that will get the world. That will get all the Lakers.
- [92:58]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [92:58]
John Mulaney
All the LA tap water drinkers.
- [93:00]
Marc Maron
Well, I think they're primarily worried about it fucking up the almond groves.
- [93:04]
John Mulaney
Oh, we do need more almonds.
- [93:07]
Marc Maron
No. I don't know what they were worried about, and I understand their sentiment, but.
- [93:10]
John Mulaney
That'S so interesting that you just said, and then I threw him down the toilet and people got mad at me. And you left out the part where you told everyone on your podcast.
- [93:16]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [93:17]
John Mulaney
So it's an interesting piece of your life where you do an Action. And then there's.
- [93:21]
Marc Maron
I talk about it.
- [93:22]
John Mulaney
You even missed the. Yeah.
- [93:24]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Well, that's all going to be gone.
- [93:25]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [93:26]
Marc Maron
And I'm not going to know what people know anymore.
- [93:28]
John Mulaney
Hey, listen, if you miss it.
- [93:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [93:29]
John Mulaney
And you want to come back and do it, just come back and do it. Don't think because you did a, I assume, big farewell and countdown and everything.
- [93:37]
Marc Maron
Well, here's the thing.
- [93:38]
John Mulaney
You can't. I sometimes feel bad for people that.
- [93:41]
Marc Maron
Oh, that. Farewell.
- [93:42]
John Mulaney
Trapped by their finale.
- [93:43]
Marc Maron
Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't like. I don't like. I just don't want to do this without Brendan because this guy is a genius and he's been watching my back forever.
- [93:52]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [93:52]
Marc Maron
You know, and, you know, just me talking without someone, then taking the talking and making decisions after the fact. It's not always great, you know, in terms of, like, you know, sometimes I'm too candid and I'm not always aware of what's going to cause trouble.
- [94:12]
John Mulaney
Oh, I see. Yeah.
- [94:13]
Marc Maron
And to have a good producer, like, I would say things on here, and while I'm doing my monologues, I'll say, like, you're probably gonna take that out, but. All right.
- [94:24]
John Mulaney
That man, I have to say, he is quite good because the flow of it, I would never guess, things are out.
- [94:29]
Marc Maron
Yeah. He's the best. So I don't think I'll do this without him. And so. And then the other thing is, it's like, well, you're an interviewer. There's jobs, you know, you could do that. I'm like, why?
- [94:40]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Why?
- [94:40]
Marc Maron
How am I going to do it as good as this? Yeah. Like on a tv. Yeah. What's the point of it? Like, I'm. I can't. Like, I can't. What am I going to do?
- [94:48]
John Mulaney
Yeah. I don't know.
- [94:49]
Marc Maron
But I'm not. I'm just going to. I'll do the stand up and, you know, maybe, you know, I'll get better as an actor and do that.
- [94:55]
John Mulaney
And then if you ever want to interview someone, there's always terrible Paley center panels and 92Y.
- [95:02]
Marc Maron
Oh, that's interesting.
- [95:03]
John Mulaney
Yeah. Whenever you feel like I'd like to host an evening, get me into the live. Host the live moderating game, Symphony Space 92Y.
- [95:14]
Marc Maron
I've done those.
- [95:15]
John Mulaney
I've done those FYC events.
- [95:18]
Marc Maron
Yeah.
- [95:18]
John Mulaney
The future is bright, my friend.
- [95:21]
Marc Maron
Well, maybe I'll just kind of figure out a TED Talk.
- [95:23]
John Mulaney
And do people still do those?
- [95:25]
Marc Maron
I don't know.
- [95:26]
John Mulaney
Yeah.
- [95:26]
Marc Maron
All right, buddy. Good talking to you.
- [95:30]
John Mulaney
Hey, man, congrats. Thanks for having me again.
- [95:32]
Marc Maron
Yeah. There you go, folks. John Mulaney. I like that guy. And I feel like we're friends. Everybody's Live with John Mulaney. The episodes are available on Netflix. I think, as he said, we're not sure if there's going be to. To be new ones, but go check out what they were up to. All right. Hang out for a minute. Hey, folks. Full Marin listeners get a bonus episode tomorrow where Brendan and I go into more detail about our decision to end the show. We'll give you the whole story. Like, I don't really have any apprehension about our decision.
- [96:10]
John Mulaney
No.
- [96:11]
Marc Maron
It's so funny because I walked over here and I was like, you know, I was pretty sure that, you know, we were on the same page, but I didn't know 100% that if I said, like, the way I felt about it, like, there might be. You might have a different feeling, or you might be like, wait, but end it entirely. Like, shouldn't we keep it going somehow? But, like, right away, I was like, I think the smartest thing to do is for us to end this. And you were like, yep. Well, people have always said to both of us, you know, in my mind, it was always going to. If anyone said, how long are you going to do it for? I'm like, as long as Brendan wants. Yeah. And I said the same thing. Right. But so that then becomes a thing where we actually do have to figure it out. And oddly, I think we're both on the same page. Well, it became. It was that thing. What it was. It was really, I think, you know, because we have pretty good boundaries with each other. And, you know, to our credit, you know, nothing has ever really polluted our professional or personal relationship out, whether it was ego or wanting to do other things. But I think that conversation we had a few months ago about just the level of burnout we were operating at and acknowledging it, because I don't. I won't acknowledge that. That's right. That's right. And I think that you were sort of ahead of me in identifying it. Yeah. And, you know, how could it not be that? That's right. Because of the nature of my work and how I work and being self employed. I never even factored that in, that it's even a real thing. That bonus episode post tomorrow for full Marin subscribers to sign up, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF and click on WTF plus. And a reminder before we go. This podcast is hosted by ACAST here's some guitar that. After I came up with it, I realized it's pretty close to a Cat Power song. But that's. That's good. Boomer lives monkey and La Fonda Cat angels everywhere.