WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1671: Peter Conheim

Release Date: August 21, 2025
Guest: Peter Conheim
Theme: Art, Audio Collage, and Archival Preservation – The Legacy and Resonance of Countercultural Audio Art

Overview

In this episode, Marc Maron sits down with Peter Conheim—film and audio archivist, musician, and longtime member of the experimental band Negativland—for a deep-dive conversation about the legacy of anti-consumerist art, the evolution of audio collage and culture-jamming, the critical role of archiving and restoration, and what it means to preserve—and live within—the avant-garde. They journey from Bay Area art scenes and cassette cut-ups to recent work restoring Devo's archives, wrestling with questions of artistic intent, cultural memory, and the paradoxical mainstreaming of outsider art.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Context: Negativland, Counterculture, and Culture Jamming

(05:01–16:45; 19:11–24:48)

• Marc reflects on the energy of late 1970s–80s performance art, punk, and anti-consumerist movements, connecting it to the emergence of Negativland.
• The "fuck you, we're here" impulse: Art as active rebellion, seeking authenticity over commercial gain.
• Nostalgia vs. building blocks: Marc discusses how, rather than wallow in nostalgia, revisiting this art can reaffirm your sense of self and foundational values.
• On Culture Jamming:
  • “Culture jamming was a real thing, you’re gonna create media that infects the broader media almost as a virus, to reveal the truth of its impact and domination on our consciousness.” — Marc Maron (21:36)
  • Peter elaborates on how culture jamming has, paradoxically, become mainstream, with social media now “chopping up content” as a matter of routine (22:46–23:46).
• The Death of Anti-Consumerist Art?
  • “Everybody is their own brand… there's no real integrity on the level of what determines real art. Art with purpose… it doesn't exist in the way it used to.” — Marc (07:19)

2. Negativland’s Methods: Comedy, Satire, and Open Source

(17:18–26:10; 38:55–41:13)

• Negativland as Comedy: The band’s roots are “comedy records in the tradition of Firesign Theater” – absurdist, layered satire of media and culture.
• Open Source Ethos: “A big part of it was, you could take it and do what you wanted… please come to our shows and record us… use this material to make your own object.” — Peter Conheim (24:34)
• Don Joyce’s Ashes: The posthumous Negative Land album Chopping Channel features the literal ashes of a band member, pressed into vinyl, as both concept and memorial. (24:48)

3. Peter’s Origin Story: From Berkeley Tapes to Audio Collectives

(26:24–34:13)

• Childhood in Berkeley: Early audio experiments with tape editing at 6–7 years old (28:04).
• Isolation, Obsession, and Nerd Community: Peter reflects on his solitary, obsessive bent compared to Marc’s searching, phase-based adolescence.
• Artistic Mentors & Connections: The importance of record/video store mentors and “weirdo culture” (32:19–33:53).
• Film vs. Audio Focus: Dropping out of high school, transitioning from Super 8 films to video—eventually working at video stores, which became social and subcultural hubs.

4. The Bay Area Scene: Radio Art and Collaborative Creative Networks

(36:11–49:40)

• KPFA’s ‘Over the Edge’ Show: As a focal point for avant-garde audio collage and improvisation in the Bay Area.
• Performing with Tapes: Negativland’s live shows involved “bringing hundreds of blindfolds” and immersing audiences in a purely auditory experience (39:33).
• The Power (and Limitations) of Audio: Both Peter and Marc bemoan the rise of YouTube-centric podcasts: “You want to have it in your world. But the distraction of having to look at people who are sitting on a mic like this—I don't get it.” — Peter (40:04)

5. RALPH Records, The Residents, and the Mystery of Anonymity

(46:25–53:09)

• The Residents' Influence: Far-reaching impact on Bay Area kids in the 70s/80s, especially their embrace of anonymity—“they gave me permission at a really young age to be anonymous.” — Peter (47:56)
• Art for Art’s Sake, or ‘Go Fuck Yourself’ Art: Deliberate provocation, anti-commercial ethos, and their place in the Zappa/Beefheart tradition.
• DIY Success: At their peak, underground experimental labels could sell unlikely quantities simply because there was so little competition (53:39).

6. Sample-Based Art: The U2 Incident and the Perils of Legal Provocation

(43:36–46:25)

• Negativland’s infamous U2 release: Designed as a legal provocation and media hack—backfiring legally and, to Peter, overshadowing the record itself.
  • “The provocation itself overshadowed the fact that it was this pretty layered, great piece of cut up art.” — Peter (45:39)
  • Aftermath: Increased legal caution for the band.

7. Archival Work, Restoration, and the Ethics of Preservation

(58:04–77:49)

• From Video Stores to Restoration: Peter’s path toward film archiving and preservation, with a focus on neglected analog treasures and the artists’ intent.
• Restoring Devo, The Residents, and Mexican Cinema: Recent work includes remastering Devo music films and Mexican studio classics for Criterion.
• Preservation as Justice:
  • “I have this weird, innate sense of justice where I want the truth to be told, but I’m not on the spectrum about it… you can make something way better than it was originally.” — Peter (66:25)
• Analog vs. Digital: Peter debunks “format fetishism” and illustrates how digital can help achieve the artist’s intent—if used with care and context.
• Remixing vs. Remastering:
  • “He did a reissue of a Miles record and… did a remix. Very different from a remaster.” — Peter (77:19)
  • Remixes radically alter content; remasters work with the existing mix, though modern tools blur the lines (78:14).

8. Enduring Relevance: Why Preserve Obscurities?

(73:51–74:20; 75:17–77:11)

• Marc’s skepticism about audience: “Who’s going to watch this shit? Five people. Is that satisfying?”
• Importance of memory and resistance:
  • “It’s important in a time where authoritarian momentum is consciously trying to erase the past.” — Marc (74:09)
• Invisible Craft: Peter discusses how subtle preservation decisions—like Prieto’s lens choices—shape emotional experience, even if the audience doesn’t consciously notice.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(Speaker attribution and timestamps in MM:SS format)

• Marc, on anti-consumerist art of the '80s:
  “It was an explosion of ‘fuck you, we're here and you can go fuck yourself. And this is why.’ Or: ‘I don't fit into your paradigm—I'm free.’” (07:19)
• Peter, on the show’s producer, Brendan:
  “There has never been, in my estimation, a better dialogue editor than Brendan McDonald… I am in awe of you, Brendan, would you marry me?” (16:45)
• Peter, on Negativland’s open-source ethos:
  “Please come to our shows and record us. Please use this material to make your own object.” (24:42)
• Marc, on modern social media:
  “Everybody is their own brand who have no problems with pushing other brands through their brand… There’s no real integrity.” (07:19)
• Peter, on culture jamming’s mainstream absorption:
  "The tools to make cut up audio, cut up video… it's an accepted part of the discourse. That's what social media is at a certain level." (22:46)
• Peter, on the emotional effect of preservation:
  “Things you don't necessarily perceive are sometimes the key to an emotional experience… it's visceral. You don't even know.” (75:43)
• Marc, on the ‘U2 Incident’:
  “The provocation itself became the controversy… and that kind of fails. The legacy is sort of a shame.” (45:39)
• Marc, on analog vs digital:
  “It's like using, you know, CDs as a source for vinyl reissues.” (65:08)
• Peter, on the unknowable audience for preservation:
  “Who are you doing this for? Five people. Is that satisfying?” (73:56)
  “But it’s important in a time where authoritarian momentum is consciously trying to erase the past.” (74:09)

Significant Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------| | 05:01 | Introduction of Peter Conheim and Negativland’s cultural context | | 16:02 | Inclusion of Marc’s sampled voice in Negativland’s “Content” track | | 19:27 | Negative Land as Comedy and connection to Firesign Theatre | | 24:43 | Don Joyce’s ashes and the “Chopping Channel” | | 36:11 | KPFA’s 'Over the Edge': Bay Area radio art | | 39:33 | Blindfolding audiences at Negativland shows | | 43:36 | The U2 incident and its aftermath | | 46:25 | RALPH Records, The Residents, and the value of anonymity | | 53:09 | Devo’s mainstreaming and Negativland’s Krautrock roots | | 58:04 | How Peter got into film archiving/restoration | | 65:08 | Analog formats, restoration ethics | | 73:51 | The relevance and purpose of preservation today | | 77:19 | Remix vs. remaster definitions and their implications |

Tone and Style

The conversation flows organically—full of warmth, mutual respect, and nostalgia, but with an undertone of critique and skepticism regarding the digital present. Both Marc and Peter mix self-deprecation with passionate advocacy for outsider art, always tying personal history back to bigger cultural questions.

For the Curious Listener

If you’re interested in experimental audio art, the ethics of restoration, the legacy of Bay Area counterculture, or the philosophical quandaries of archiving, this episode is a rich, genuine, and sometimes hilarious meditation on why art matters—even when only five people are watching.

Listen for:

• Stories of pressing ashes into vinyl (24:48)
• The inside scoop on the Devo Netflix doc and Negativland’s sampling logic (55:25, 16:02)
• Fond, nerdy reminiscences of the Bay Area’s weirdo scenes and the sense of “permission” that anonymity in art can confer (47:56)
• Candid reflections on nostalgia, the slow death of radical art, and why preserving the margins may matter more than ever (74:09)