Episode 1672 - Jeremy Allen White

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1672: Jeremy Allen White

Date: August 25, 2025
Guest: Jeremy Allen White
Host: Marc Maron

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Episode Overview

In this candid episode, Marc Maron welcomes actor Jeremy Allen White to discuss his artistic journey, family background, experiences with anxiety and sobriety, handling fame, and recent deep-dive performances in The Bear, Shameless, and The Iron Claw. The conversation is marked by humor, vulnerability, industry insights, and a shared openness about mental health and creative struggles. It offers an unfiltered look into Jeremy’s evolution as an artist and person.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Relationships in Work and Life

[18:46–26:24]

• On Friendships at Work:
  Marc and Jeremy reflect on the unique intimacy formed during creative projects—especially on set—while acknowledging how most of those relationships fade post-project.

  • “It’s sort of like just summer camp, you know what I mean? And then everybody goes off...But you think in that moment, oh, this is it. I figured it out.” – Jeremy ([26:21])
  • Marc notes his podcast is often his social hub, though lasting friendships are rare.

• Celebrity Encounters and the Oddness of Fame:
  Stories include running into people like Jeff Goldblum and Jack White after interviews, with Marc wondering “do people remember me as I remember it?” ([20:10–22:33])

  • "He's got that charisma that's very honed ... he’s gonna make you feel special, even if it’s for a minute." – Marc, on Josh Brolin ([23:34])

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2. Early Life, Family, and Artistic Roots

[31:07–35:54]

• Growing Up Artistic:
  Jeremy’s parents met through acting in NYC.

  • “My dad saw my mom in a play, fell in love with her, ran out at intermission, got her flowers, asked her out afterwards, and that’s how they started seeing each other.” ([32:39])

• Young Artistic Influences:
  Jeremy was introduced to theater and dance as an energetic kid in Brooklyn, later performing in black-box theater under a demanding, inspiring teacher.

  • “He made us feel like it was important. Like it was important.” – Jeremy on his middle school drama teacher ([37:38])

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3. Finding Focus and Presence in Acting

[35:01–40:57]

• Jeremy describes discovering a sense of presence and focus on stage, through improv and attention.
  • “I just remember the feeling of being able to focus, which was very hard for me as a young person. And it still is ... feeling present, really, for kind of the first time.” ([35:03])

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4. Education and Early Work in Theater

[41:28–44:09]

• Despite not getting into the famed LaGuardia High School on first try, Jeremy persisted through other performing arts schools and off-off-Broadway gigs, building resilience and self-esteem.

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5. Growth Through Long-Term TV Work – Shameless

[50:10–52:48]

• Landing Shameless out of high school was Jeremy’s "schooling"—it spanned his entire twenties and brought both security and frustration at times.

  • “I was 18 when we did the pilot and I was 30 when we finished.” ([50:29])

• He discusses the evolving perspective on stability and longing for different experiences, now appreciating the consistency as he raises two daughters.

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6. Navigating Anxiety, Panic, and Sobriety

[54:48–62:28]

• Both Marc and Jeremy open up about lifelong anxiety and catastrophic thinking, with Marc describing panic attacks and Jeremy detailing his own struggles post-Shameless.

  • “I started having a panic attack and I had to pull over on the side of the road because my arms went all kind of numb…” – Jeremy ([55:56])

• Sobriety becomes a central topic:

  • Jeremy recounts being “really close to losing everything” before getting sober for the sake of his kids and family ([61:25–62:19]).

  • Both men discuss the difference between white-knuckling and true recovery, the lifting of obsession, and the shame and secrecy that come before seeking help.

  • “But in the end, no, it was very...I was selfish medicated. It was lonely.” – Jeremy on drinking ([59:19])

  • “The consistent thing with all the behavior is, like, I’m a idiot. And I feel guilty or whatever.” – Marc ([60:32])

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7. On Performance – The Iron Claw and Wrestling

[64:24–71:32]

• Jeremy talks about the emotional and physical demands of playing Kerry Von Erich in The Iron Claw and how transformative it was to train in wrestling.

  • “Not just the physical stuff... but I just knew everybody was going to be living in a kind of hell, uncomfortable, like, place and energy for a long time.” ([66:11])

• He gained new appreciation for pro wrestling’s storytelling and athleticism, with important lessons about slowing down and capturing an audience.

  • “Chavo was like, you’re not paying attention to the story... It’s the moments in between where you’re capturing the audience…” – Jeremy ([69:39])

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8. Handling Sudden Fame and Public Scrutiny

[71:33–73:36]

• Jeremy explains that his rise felt slow, having worked steadily since youth, and he’s relieved major fame didn’t hit until his 30s.
• He admits that public attention during his divorce, including paparazzi, was unpleasant but manageable by “being boring” and keeping a simple life.

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9. New Roles and Creative Hopes

[73:40–81:20]

• Jeremy hints at upcoming projects (fourth season of The Bear, a Michael Mann-inspired project with Austin Butler, and the Springsteen film Deliver Me from Nowhere).

• He describes the challenge of preparing to sing and play Bruce Springsteen, including working with renowned vocal coach Eric Vitro.

  • “The phrasing on that record’s tough... a whole bunch. Just think about, is this the work of, who’s Bruce playing or which moment in Bruce’s life is this, you know...” ([76:31])

• Marc and Jeremy reflect on the value of authenticity in performance, whether singing, wrestling, or acting.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There’s nothing more present than failing in front of people.” – Marc Maron ([37:20])
• “I think kids have that [honesty], you know, all the time. I mean, they’ll look right through you.” – Jeremy Allen White ([48:01])
• “If it’s honest – whether it sounds just like or looks just like the guy – people will believe it and they’ll follow you.” – Jeremy on portraying Springsteen ([78:07])
• “My rule has always been just try to work with people that you admire, that you feel like you could learn something from.” – Jeremy ([79:30])
• “Like the one thing I like about the recovery racket... that they say the obsession will be lifted. And it is. Yeah, it’s fucking crazy.” – Marc ([62:35])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 18:46 – Jeremy joins the interview, discussing connections and friendships in show business
• 26:20 – Early filmmaking and lessons about fleeting “summer camp” bonds on sets
• 31:07 – Family background and the roots of creativity in acting
• 35:03 – Finding presence through improv and youthful performances
• 41:28 – Performing arts high school, dealing with rejection, and early gigs
• 50:10 – Securing Shameless at age 18 and working through his 20s
• 54:48 – Anxiety, panic attacks, and the pressure of creative uncertainty
• 61:25–62:32 – Sobriety journey: facing shame, family, and choosing recovery
• 64:24 – Making The Iron Claw and learning the art and craft of wrestling
• 69:39 – Chavo’s wrestling wisdom: focus on story, not just moves
• 71:33 – Fame, privacy, and handling tabloids during personal upheaval
• 73:40 – Current and upcoming creative projects: The Bear, Enemies, and Bruce Springsteen film
• 75:24 – Preparing to perform as Springsteen, learning guitar and singing with Eric Vitro
• 78:07 – Authenticity in performance, Bruce’s feedback, and letting go of anxiety
• 79:30 – Choosing projects, creative goals, and not fearing typecasting

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Tone & Style

True to both host and guest, the episode is frank, thoughtful, occasionally self-deprecating, and laced with dry humor. Both men are open about their mental health, addiction, and the sometimes-unglamorous realities of creativity and fame.

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Final Thoughts

A rich, honest conversation that goes beyond celebrity chit-chat, this episode of WTF is an intimate exploration of artistic identity, personal battles, and the ongoing quest for authentic expression. Jeremy Allen White reveals himself as much more than a brooding onscreen presence — thoughtful, grateful, vulnerable, and, above all, human.

Transcript

[Mark Marin]

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All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. It's called wtf. What is Happening? How's everything going with you? Not getting any easier really, is it? But I'm trying to level off. I'm trying to get out of my head or maybe spend at least half the day outside my head. Is that possible? I'm talking about real time, not head time. I'm starting to realize head time is much different than real time. And I think head time is eating up a lot of my real time. Does that make sense? Maybe I'll try to explain that. Before I get thinking out loud, I'd like to say that Jeremy Allen White is here. He's here today. It's gonna happen. You know him from the Bear, Shameless, the Iron Claw. And he's playing Bruce Springsteen in the new movie Deliver Me from Nowhere. Look, I met him on set. He was very into his work. And as I learned during the. During the interview, he wasn't feeling that well. The day I met him, he was exhausted and maybe a little under the weather, but we talked a little bit. I had no real sense of how we would be on here, but we had a great conversation and that's. We talked about a lot of stuff and he's a very engaged and thoughtful guy. So that's going to happen now. Still kind of coming down from all the press and the couple weeks that the special was up there kind of leveling off into the work again. And I'm not even sure I want to do that. I. I do not know how to stop. I do not know. And given that my show at Largo this Thursday is sold out, but I'll be back there with the band on Wednesday, September 10th. I'm also doing this little show that probably could use some love. It's a small show Tuesday night. I'm doing it with Allie Makofsky, and it's her show and they do sort of. I don't know if it's. If it's every Tuesday or it's once a month, but I will be there tomorrow night. It's called Last Tuesday Ever. It's a bad ladder. It's me and Adam Ray and a couple other people. Very small show, though. So if you want to see me in that kind of environment, I will throw the link up [e-mail] tour so you can get tickets for tomorrow night. Also, we'll be doing our final Ask Mark Anything bonus episodes next month. So send in your questions, just go to the link in the episode description of today's show and send, send me whatever you want to ask. The Ask Mark Anything bonus episodes will roll out for full MARIN subscribers in a few weeks. And that's what's up. You know, I mean, I believe that they posted my Pod Save America episode. It's weird. I had not been in that environment in a long time where the sort of drive of the show is specifically to talk about politics and try to infuse that with a little hope, which I'm not great at in that world at this point in time, the political world. But I think we had a great conversation about a lot stuff, so you can check that out. And I can't say enough that if you want to go look at the work of a guy calling himself elephant graveyard on YouTube, it's definitely worth looking at. He. He's the Adam Curtis of. Of Doc Making About Comedy. And the last two have been amazing. I got to be honest with you. Yeah. If you go to YouTube, he's got a channel there called the Elephant Graveyard. And the last three, the newest one is called Comedy Jonestown. The one before that is called Comedy Czar. The one before that is Career Ending. He does good work in general. He's very thoughtful, and he really sets his eyes on the current comedy world's connection to a fascist culture, an authoritarian government. And this new one really kind of focuses on the techno bro element of fascism within comedy. And I think it's important work and I've reached out to that guy, but I don't know who he is. He's anonymous. I know he's Canadian. I would have liked to have had him on the show, but it doesn't seem that that's in the cards. But the work is there. That's the elephant graveyard on YouTube. I would check that out if I were you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

It.

[Mark Marin]

It sort of. He speaks in the same world that I speak in about this stuff, but he's much more thorough and a true free thinker. So I would do that if I were you. As for me, I'm starting to have some realizations about the monster we carry with us at all times, that being the phone. And I don't think there's anything trivial or trite or not necessary to talk about the impact of the constant pummeling that we put our brains through with information. And I've talked about this many times before, but I'm starting. I've sort of been hung up on this idea that our sense of time, or at least mine kind of has changed since COVID And outside of ptsd, being that that was a three year period where. Where there was true terror in the minds of most of us about a disease and how to handle it. But there's something else that I started to realize about the nature of time in. In relation to it feels like it's moving fast or it's not kind of connected to days anymore, that everything just becomes one long sort of experience that happens at different paces. But as I've been saying lately that I don't generally feel time flies by, but I do all of a sudden realize I'm 61 years old and I'm going to be 62. And I started to think more about the impact of COVID but I realized it's the impact of zoom and it's the impact of our phones and the impact jamming our brain with information technology of one kind or another, either for distraction or a need for connection or a need for information. And the way time works on your phone is much different than the way time works in life or when you're disconnected from all your devices. It's a completely different time zone. I think it's many different time zones, but I think our brain processes that in a different way. People talking in videos on TikTok or on Instagram or on YouTube. Having done radio in my life and knowing the type of mania one has to kind of get themselves into to drive a show of any kind to broadcast on microphones, even this one, to sort of move through it without pausing too much, unless you're doing it for dramatic effect, takes a slightly heightened way of engagement. And I would say that's definitely in the mania spectrum, that there is an intensity of tone of the way you kind of talk, the speed you talk, the intensity of the talk. I do feel it's a heightened type of engagement. And it's not necessarily that spontaneous. It's usually driving at something I know I am right now and I know that my tone right now is different than how I might be be when I talk to somebody else or I think. So if you're kind of engaging with the phone all the time, with any number of hundreds of reels or bits and pieces of what they call content coming at you, it's going to be at this heightened tone and your brain's going to receive it like that. So I think that in itself is sort of an exhausting thing and it doesn't happen in real time, but just on a practical level in terms of time getting away from me or maybe you, I don't know if they still have that thing on the phone which, how much screen time you spend there, but you might not know that it's hours a day and that's hours a day. That is not moving at the pace of life. It's moving at the pace that your brain is taking in all this heightened pounding that you're putting it through, you know, shifting time zones, you know, every minute, every 30 seconds, you know, your brain just kind of locks into whatever the tone of whatever is happening and it's completely inhuman. And I do think on some level it's eating our time. Is that possible? Does that seem like a logical interpretation? This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. When you run your own website like we do, Squarespace makes sure you're all taken care of and not just with the way your site looks and works for visitors. Squarespace also gives you everything you need to offer your services through this site and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. You'll get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. And with blueprint AI, Squarespace helps you design a fully custom website in just a few steps. Check out wtfpod.com to see a site powered by Squarespace. Then head to squarespace.com wtf for a free trial. And then when you're all set to launch your new site, use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF? Offer code WTF? Yeah, I have to make some conscious decisions. I'm going to have time. I'm excited to have the time. But I'm really. I think I've said this before, but the years ago, Dennis Miller at the beginning of the Internet, said something that I never forget. There are certain things that stick in your head that he said that the Internet is going to make crack look like Sanka. And that didn't really make sense until now, until the idea of detaching from the phone in a very real way becomes something that I'm going to have to figure out how to do that, because you do look to it for news, for distraction, for emotional engagement, for validation, whatever it is. And it's a powerful drug, probably the most powerful one existing today. I will stand by that 100%, because everyone is on it. Some people don't know that their life has become unmanageable because of it. Certainly the people that are feeding it every day, because that's their job, but the detachment from it, I don't know. It's going to be something I'm thinking about because I think I need to engage in real time again. And my real time is. Is not without excitement. As you know, I. I have an ongoing cat issue with Charlie, Beans, Roscoe. And where we're at with that right now, I can tell you, is that after engaging with the vet, you know, he was on the Prozac for two and a half weeks, and it fucked him up. It made him different. And I was waiting to wait it out, but it did not deal. Like, it totally had an effect on him, but it did not affect his aggression towards the other cat, Buster. So I kept talking to the vet and telling her this, and, you know, I was willing to wait, but it really just wasn't. It was definitely doing something. He was a different cat, and I didn't love it, but it was not doing anything about the aggression. And I kept telling her about that, and I decided. We decided to take him off it. And also, you know, alongside of that, we put Buster on the same drug I'm on. So me and Buster are both on Buspirone, and we'll see how that goes for both of us. And Charlie is now just readjusting to his insanity, but on top of that, I'm trying to do something. I do not want to have to give this cat away because I do love this cat. And. And Jackson Galaxy, who I talked to here, has been in touch with me and he thinks he can solve it. So the approach now is with the vet and with Jackson, and I've engaged another cat behavioralist is to. Is to separate them at different times during the day, to switch them out so that they each have time in the bigger part of the house where they can both feel like kings. So that's the project now, is getting Charlie off the Prozac, putting Buster on the Buspirone, and. And switching them out during the day so they can both feel like they've got ownership of the house and me, I guess. And the hilarious thing is Sam, the stupid Sam, who is probably turning out to be the best cat I have, is in the middle of all this and he still minds his own fucking business. He operates at his own pace, and he's become more connected to me in the midst of all this separating the two alpha idiots, you know, at different intervals, he's kind of locked into me a little more. So that's a benefit. So this is the life of real time. And, you know, I can project and engage and be just as distracted and worked up as I am if I'm on my phone flipping through garbage and also just sitting on the porch. There's something about real life time that I think we gotta get used to. Again, it's not that compelling sometimes when you're just alone, it's not. Doesn't fill the hole, per se. But maybe it's okay to live in the hole for a little while, don't you think? I think so. Hey, with school starting again and schedules filling fast, preparing dinner for the family can feel overwhelming. 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And you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. I want to thank all the people who came out last night to the American Cinema tech screening of McCabe and Mrs. Miller at the Arrow Theater, which I hosted and did a short intro. As many of you know, I've been obsessed with that movie since I was a teenager because it was really the first movie that made me realize, holy shit, there's a lot going on in these movies. And the naturalism and the lighting and the Leonard Cohen music and the Vilmos Zygmund cinematography and Altman's direction and all the great acting. It's a naturalism that you don't see in films anymore. And it's a period piece, and there's a lot of themes going on there. I think at the core, it's probably about a guy just going through the difficulties of starting a small business and he's up against corporate interests. But it is a revisionist Western, and there's such an intimacy to it. And there's such an interesting take on gender roles and on the myth of the west and individualism. And I would say that McCabe is most definitely a tragic comic figure. And I'm obsessed with his jacket and his hat for different reasons. I think they imply something. The hat is a bowler hat, which to me in film signifies Charlie Chaplin. And the coat is this massive bearskin coat. So he's sort of a clown in bear's clothing, a tragic clown. But I can watch that movie anytime. And the print was just spectacular. Thank you, American Cinema Tech, for having me. So look, Jeremy Allen White is an actor. He's very popular right now. He's kind of hard to read, I think, and you can kind of project onto who he is with the different roles he plays. He's nominated at the Emmys this year for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy series for the Bear. The Bruce Springsteen film Deliver Me From Nowhere, which I am in as well, opens in October, but it makes its world premiere this weekend at Telluride Film Festival. And this is me talking to Jeremy Allen White.

[Jeremy Allen White]

How much longer?

[Mark Marin]

Like another month and change.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Wow, that's something, man.

[Mark Marin]

End of an era.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Heavy.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Super heavy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, it's sort of a big deal to end things of any kind.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, of course.

[Mark Marin]

And I don't long Time. I know. I don't think I've quite like, I. We've given it enough time to. I'm prepared.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But it's like. It's like any other relationship.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

That, you know, there's a loss to it, but not unlike other relationships, you know, I've. I've had my time.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Mark Marin]

On some level, I've had enough.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Not in a bad way, but it's like. It's. It's a lot. And so much of my time in life goes into doing it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I think talking to people like this.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Is probably the. It's a primary. My primary social life.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's kind of nice to have a work built in social life, though. Sometimes I wish I had something like that, you know?

[Mark Marin]

Well, yeah, it's kind of odd because, like, I have conversations with people, you know, and they're usually pretty. Pretty thorough and connected, and then they just go away.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I was wondering, I mean, if you walk into a party or something like that.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Is it just so easy for you to get around because you kind of have had a really great conversation with most people in those kind of rooms.

[Mark Marin]

You know, it is like, I never. I still. I. I don't think I have a full awareness of my impact in the world or whether or not people necessarily remember me as I remember it, you know, because a lot of times people are on junkets or they're just doing these things.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, most people know who I am.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But I don't know, am I any different than any. Any other, you know, interview they've done? Sometimes I think that, but mostly for some people.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I don't know, man. I mean, I think most people know the deal.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. There's some people that I definitely feel connected with, and they're like. And it always surprises me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Sometimes it's. It's kind of great. Like, you know, I went to a party and, like, I saw Jeff Goldblum there and I interviewed him years ago.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And he was like, oh, my God. You know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

There's some guys like, you know, I'm pretty good friends with Tracy Letts.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

There's a couple people that I've had on that, you know, I have kind of friendships with. Johnny Knoxville's another guy that's always pretty.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Happy to see me, where it's like the friendship is born from being in a room like this.

[Mark Marin]

Well, kinda. Or at least a familiarity of connection.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

You know, there's some People that I've done this show with, and I'm not even sure they remember doing it, but that's just me, you know? But to answer the question, yes, I do feel like I'm part of this thing as. Whatever I am.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, and. But there haven't been a lot of people that I. Outside of guys I know. Outside that I've really kind of, you know, remained buds with.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Gotcha.

[Mark Marin]

But I'm, you know, I'm old. It's hard to make friends.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure. Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's hard to maintain those things.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

What are you gonna do? Like, they're like, you know. Have you worked with Josh Brolin?

[Jeremy Allen White]

No. No, never.

[Mark Marin]

Do you know him?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I don't, but I just. I just did a thing with Austin Butler, and I know him and Austin have a really special thing.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah. I had Austin on, but I don't get the sense that, you know, we're pals.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I bet he'd be happy to see you, though.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. He's a nice guy, but, you know, he's one of those guys where, you know, sometimes there's. There's so much happening for a guy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And they're so in the zone of, like, you know, showing up for these things.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Where you don't exactly know if. If it's just a. It's a tricky thing, you know, how I perceive people, you know, connect with me. You know, I'm sure he'd be happy to see me, but I'd be like, do you remember I did that to Jack White once? And it was almost like I interviewed Jack White years ago.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

In Nashville. And then years later, I saw him at the. At the airport, and I didn't even know if I could, you know, go up to.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure.

[Mark Marin]

And I was like, hey, man, you know Mark, Remember? He's like a. Of course. You know, I don't know what the. I'm thinking. I came over to his goddamn house.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Of course. But people remember these things.

[Mark Marin]

Sometimes they do. But. But the point with Josh was, though, like, I rarely, you know. Like, I rarely, you know, kind of follow up. I don't feel it's my place in terms of boundaries in the job to, you know, I'll give you a call sometime or something like that. But, like, Josh and I had a long conversation about zins. You know, I got fucking two zins in my mouth right now, and he's like a Zen junkie. And I got this place where I can get the flavored ones here, which are illegal So I was like, I'll tell you what it is, and he gave me a phone number, and I'll text you the place. And I don't even know if it was a real phone.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

[Mark Marin]

You know, I never heard back from him, and I realized, like, this has got to probably be his third phone. Maybe his assistant's phone.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Mark Marin]

But he's such a charming fucker.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, he's charismatic.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. Because, you know, he walks in and you feel like your best friends are ready, and I buy it, of course.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But now nothing. No, Like, I got the shit. Nothing.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I bet he'd be happy to see you, too.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, well, I think he's got a zone that or a vibe that he works with, where you always feel. He's got that charisma that's very honed.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Mark Marin]

So he's one of those guys where he's gonna make you feel special, even if it's for a minute or two.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You walk away, like. Yeah. He's, like, kind of my bud.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Those guys are special, man. Those guys that can make you feel like the sun's kind of shining on you, you know Clooney.

[Mark Marin]

Same way.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Clooney, like, was surprising. He. He actually is a very decent fella.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know that guy?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, no, never met him.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

No.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, because I went to, like, I interviewed him. It was over Zoom during COVID and he was, you know, he. He knew me and what I'd gone through with losing my partner and stuff, and. But he, you know, he was very generous during the interview. But then I saw him, like, I don't know how long ago, how much later it was, but it was a. Like a press screening of that. Of that movie he directed. Yeah, that Tender Bar movie.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Ben Affleck.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Right now, I was just there with the press. You know, I was going to interview maybe Ben. I don't remember who it was supposed to, but I was there. Yeah, it was just a daytime screening for press guys and. But he walked in, you know, and I was heading to the bathroom. He just made a beeline to me, like, you know, like, out of everybody. He's like, you're right. You know? Sweet guy.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Makes you feel good.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a pretty sensitive fella.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too.

[Mark Marin]

I know it seems like it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, we did that one scene in the movie.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, my God. I was in rough shape.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I feel.

[Mark Marin]

I know.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Well, at the time.

[Mark Marin]

Well, I kind of sensed all that. It's a very weird thing that. To have such a. Like, I had a small supporting role, but I knew you guys were locked in. And at that point, I don't even know where you were at, but you.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Like, we were about to break for kind of a holiday break. Yeah, right. It was like December, right?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds right.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So, yeah, I feel like we. We had been going for. For two months. Pretty. Pretty steady.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I feel like I had gotten some kind of, like, bronco something.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Something was going on.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And we were just in it, too. Exactly. That thing of just, like, once you. You're into it, a couple weeks, a month, two months, you just.

[Mark Marin]

You know, I know it's taking. It's taken me a while, you know, because of being on sets, to just realize, like. And that's the other thing, too, about being on sets. When you asked me about friendships and from work, you know, I. For years, I always thought, like, guys who do movies together, they gotta stay in touch. And it's like.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, no, they don't. No, not always. It's really rare. It's really rare. And he was pointing, like. I remember the first kind of the job I did. I did this movie when I was 16 called after school. And so I was still in high school at the time, and we shot it during the summer. And it was a really young crew, young director. These guys at NYU, they were all like, 23, and I was 16, and I thought I found all my best friends, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, this is it. We're gonna do this forever.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that was my first experience with that thing of, like, it's sort of like just summer camp, you know what I mean? And then everybody goes off and they. But you think in that moment, oh, this is it. I figured it out, you know, And I think that's.

[Mark Marin]

That's part of the. The joy of doing it, if there is any.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mark Marin]

You know, but, like, that was your first movie.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That was.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, not my first movie, but it was. That was the one where I went, oh. Like, you know, this is.

[Mark Marin]

But it's a funny thing because when you have that feeling, and then when you're done, it's even you. You're sort of like, no need to call that guy, I don't think.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally, Totally, totally, totally.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Well, you're waiting for the phone to ring, and then when the phone doesn't ring, then you're like, yeah, whatever.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

What was it? Like, you know, because you guys, you know, strong works a certain way.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And, you know, I interviewed him and, like, I. Like, I don't know if it's because of just who I am and sort of zero fuck attitude. Like, I kind of like busting his balls a little bit.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I remember a little bit of that. I remember a little bit of that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

About his process. It's just so funny because he's willing to talk to you as Jeremy, but he's going to do it as Landau.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, totally.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, that man is. He cares so much.

[Mark Marin]

That's what it is.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[Mark Marin]

Because it's not. He kind of gets this method thing, but I don't. I don't think it's method. I just think he's just immersive. In order for him to do what he does.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, I think a lot of these guys, you know, I don't think it's method either.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I know some of these guys, like Jeremy, they just have to. They have to go all the way. And in my opinion, these are all great actors regardless. You know what I mean? I think Jeremy showing up and reading off a piece of paper he's seen for the first time is going to be compelling. I think he's got the gravity and he's got the thing. But I think with some of these guys, they just feel like for themselves, maybe it's an insecurity, maybe it's this. Maybe they don't feel like they deserve to be there. Whatever it is, they need to go ahead and push it all the way and do all the stuff to make it feel like they're deserving of that spot. But in my opinion, all these guys are. They're brilliant, regardless.

[Mark Marin]

You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. And on some level, just as someone who's doing it a little more than you used to, like, how do you make it interesting?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, you know, and if you. If you're compelled to do that, because it's a lot of waiting around.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And, you know, and to make that time on camera feel like it's worth it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, I guess you're gonna do what you got to do.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's a big. Like, you gotta start to figure out how you conserve that.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That energy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. But be satisfied. Creat.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Now, how long before you shot was he, you know, talking to you as John Landau?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think. Let's see, Jeremy and I, we hadn't met we'd emailed a little bit. I think we share an agent Max. And so we've been in touch, and I was a fan of his, and he reciprocated, but I think the first time we spent time together. Yeah, he was already in it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But was he, like. Was he texting you as John Landau?

[Jeremy Allen White]

A little bit. I think a little bit. You know, but it was great. Great. Because, you know, I mean, look, I, I love Jeremy. I've continued to talk to him a lot after we finished this. We talked a lot during it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And at first, you know, he was messaging me and, you know, Landau and Bruce's relationship. Landau's such a supporter.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I was, like, getting these texts from Jeremy, and I was like, man, this guy's, like, so supportive and, like, loving and, you know, caring. And at the moment, I was like, oh, maybe he's just, you know, maybe he's just doing, like, a thing where he's in character. But then I discovered that's he's. He's that guy too. You know what I mean? Just like a really supportive actor.

[Mark Marin]

Are we doing the scene now?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Right. There was something where I was like, maybe this is the thing. But as we got to know each other better and spend more time together, I just realized, you know, he loves actors, and that's not always the case, man. There's some actors that are like, there's a real competition in there.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And, and, and strong. Just. He loves actors, and I love those.

[Mark Marin]

How does that manifest so, like, a, a competitive actor, like, he's going to try to steal the scene kind of thing?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, maybe, maybe something like that or, like, I don't know, like, I, I, I started acting at such a young age.

[Supporting Interviewer]

How old were you?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I was like, 14, 15.

[Mark Marin]

Really?

[Jeremy Allen White]

There was always, like, a couple guys in front of me or the couple guys that always got everything.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know what I mean? And as a kid, I was, I was angry, you know, I was like, you know, this. I could do that. I could do this better than that. I could do, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

All this stuff and, and that eats you up. And I think with, with some people that can.

[Mark Marin]

Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That can carry on. You know what I mean?

[Mark Marin]

Well, that sounds like it becomes a bitternessing.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally.

[Mark Marin]

So where'd you grow up?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I grew up in Brooklyn, New York.

[Mark Marin]

Really? The whole. You were just a New York kid?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I grew up, like, around Park Slope until I was 8. We lived in Baltimore for a couple years. Usually like, three. We had Some family there. My dad's brother and I think my parents and my little sister at that point, my younger sister. My parents wanted us to have like a bit of a yard and.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, really?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Like a suburban kind of thing, because my dad had a brother there. Yeah, he was like, maybe this is the spot. But nobody liked it. My parents didn't like it. I didn't really like it. I think my sister liked it because she was so young.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, but. But we came back when I was like 11.

[Mark Marin]

And what was the family business?

[Jeremy Allen White]

So my dad had had a business for a long time. Filming depositions. Pretty much. He started his own business. Yeah, he had a couple guys working for him. He did that for a while. And my mom was a special education teacher in kindergarten.

[Mark Marin]

And so they were always pretty supportive, were they?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Well, yeah, they actually. They met. They were actors, so my mom really. North Carolina? Yeah, my mom grew up in North Carolina, went to North Carolina School of the Arts, which is a great arts college, and studied acting there. But she moved to New York in the. With the big dreams, late 70s, early 80s, with the big dreams. And my pops too, he. He grew up outside of Philly and. And he moved there to pursue acting as well. And so they're both living in the.

[Mark Marin]

City kind of stuff.

[Jeremy Allen White]

They were living in the city. Yeah. I think they moved their late 70s, early 80s. And we're doing theater and we're doing their thing, you know, And. And as the story goes, sometimes I'm like, I gotta talk to my dad about this story. Cause I've taken it for myself, and it might be a little different, but I like this story, which is my dad saw my mom in a play, fell in love with her, ran out at intermission, got her flowers, asked her out afterwards, and that's how they started seeing each other.

[Mark Marin]

And that's how you were delivered the story.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That's how I believe how the story went.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Or now I've taken it. And that's. That's the story.

[Mark Marin]

You think there might be a little space in there maybe, but, you know.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That'S very concise and clear for me. And. And that's how they met. And then, you know, they did it for a long time.

[Mark Marin]

Like off Broadway. Off Broadway?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, off Broadway stuff. And apparently my mom was very, very, very good.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And my dad will say it himself. He. He wasn't, you know, he wasn't as great. He kind of like over intellectualized things a little bit. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Familiar with that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But my mom, my Mom, I think, had the real. The real thing, the real instinct for it, but, you know, it didn't take off for him because it's a hard thing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, it is.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And they wanted to have a family.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And they were living on the Upper west side at the time.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And. And then my dad kind of figured out this business. They moved to Brooklyn and they probably had me.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So he probably thinks on some level, it's still creative. I'm shooting stuff.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And, you know, they were support. You know, I. I grew up in a household that was very supportive of the arts passion there.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Did they. Did any of them. Did your mom do, like, community stuff after or nothing. Just, like, stopped acting. That was it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But she's retired now from. From teaching.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think she did a. She did a short film, actually, that was, like, somehow connected with my middle school drama teacher. Like, he got her something in a short of an old student of his.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think, you know, I wonder if she liked that. She liked to mess around and do some stuff now.

[Mark Marin]

So when you wanted to do it, how old were you?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I guess seventh grade was the first time I remember doing that kind of thing, performing.

[Mark Marin]

What was that? Was it like a musical or something?

[Jeremy Allen White]

That was this teacher. This teacher, John McEnany, and he taught at a. He taught at a school in Brooklyn, Ms. 51. And I joined the class. And, yeah, it was just a improv sort of exercise in a black box, you know, And I just remember the feeling of, you know, being able to focus, which was very hard for me as a young person. And it still is feeling present, really, for kind of the first time, especially.

[Mark Marin]

With improv, because you're. You gotta be in it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, exactly. And I, of course, remember the attention, you know, there was like. I felt the eyes on me.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I felt that people were. Were waiting and, like, connected and wanted to see what was going to happen next.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I was like, oh, this is. That's pretty cool.

[Mark Marin]

That's a rush.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Marin]

I still like that. That space always is kind of fucking insane.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It horrifies me now. I couldn't. I. You know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, I was on stage just the other night and Martin Lawrence had come in and he did a set.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Wow. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And he brought me up and it was just this moment where. Where, you know, I was kind of feeling. I'm just trying to feel stuff out now because I just did a special, so I'm. I'm at square one.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

So I'm off a bit.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I said a few things and then there was just that silence and I had that. And I've done this before. I have that moment where I just say out loud, I'm like, you're all just waiting for me to.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then I just said, let's just. Let's just sit in this for a minute.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

There you go.

[Mark Marin]

But it was terrible.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Why? What are they. How do they react when you do?

[Mark Marin]

How are they going to react? They're the comedy audience and they're like, like, what is happening?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Is it funny, though? Do they laugh? Is it uncomfortable? Is there something in that space that feels interesting, you know?

[Mark Marin]

Well, it's interesting because it is uncomfortable.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like, I know I'll get out of it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

Most likely. But just to stop everything, just have that, that weird moment, like when you're on stage and you're kind of. You acknowledge it, but, you know, you're moving towards something. Like I literally stopped it without a plan.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

Just to see how that felt for a minute and there was some uncomfortable laughter. But, you know, eventually I picked it up. But I just wanted to check in with that, that space because it is a. It's kind of a terrifying space.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And you kind of just have to, you know, you know, do it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Just getting in the cold plunger, remind.

[Mark Marin]

Yourself that, you know, that. That it's that being present thing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

There's nothing more present than failing in front of people.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely terrible.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So. So you do the improv thing. So this guy, the. The teacher, is he the guy that planted the seed? I mean, do you.

[Jeremy Allen White]

For sure, he was very serious. Serious guy.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But he was teaching, you know, 11, 12, 13 year olds.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But he. He made us feel like it was important. Like it was important.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, and I think for a lot of kids, they haven't found what's important to them yet, nor should they at that age necessarily. You know what I mean? Yeah. 13, 14 and. But it was so important to him and I thought that was cool. And I remember he had us do. In seventh grade, we did. We did Macbeth and Twelfth Night back to back. So we each played two parts and it was insane to have 12, 13 year olds do two Shakespeare plays back to back. But that was the kind of guy that he was. And he took it so seriously. I mean, he lived very close to the middle school and it was just. That was his. That was his life. And, you know, I could tell he wasn't sleeping and he was making edits on Shakespeare and, you know, all this. All this stuff. He just. He took it very seriously. And he sent me out on, like, whatever backstage, you know, open casting calls.

[Mark Marin]

So you were the guy. Were you the golden boy at that time?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, you know, he sent out a couple of us.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I remember there was this kid, Phil, who played Macbeth. I played macduff, but I also played Malvoli, so I had, like, a lot going on between the two.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I remember he played Macbeth. And I was like, shit, I'm not. You know, I'm not the guy. Maybe I'm not the guy, but. But Mr. McEnany. Yeah, I think he was like. At 13, you're like, this is something.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not Macbeth.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

What's the point?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I think he saw something going on, and he sent me out on, like, you know, off off off Broadway kind of audition, and I ended up getting it and really. And doing that in the city. And then part. It was. It was, like, original. It was called the Present. You know, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't excellent, but it was, you know, it was like a black box. Like, where was it?

[Mark Marin]

Do you remember where the theater was or interviewed Aaron?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, it was on the Upper west side. I don't remember exactly, but it was small, small theater. Like, I don't know, 80 cap.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Was there people coming?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, there were people coming, but it was that same thing. It was enough to get me. It was that thing again. It was like, oh, wow, these people are paying attention.

[Mark Marin]

But also going into the city, for sure. Did you go in the city Pretty regular anyways. Maybe not.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Maybe not at that age so much. We'd go in on occasion, like special occasions. And then when I was getting into. Yeah, like, did you see Shakespeare? I went to high school in the city.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, you did. Let me ask you, though, before we space it out, did he make you understand Shakespeare? Do you know, like. Because, like, that language. And I'm hung up on Shakespeare in general because I. I'm one of those guys who are like. I can't get my head around it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Like. No, right. Because you're always gonna be trying to piece that stuff together, you know? I don't know if there's ever fully understanding. That's all. That's like a life's work, you know? But, yeah, there would be certain things. Like, we'd work a monologue over and over again, and he'd break that down. But then the rest was all instinct. But what he did give us, I think, was, like, trust in our own instinct. Nothing was wrong necessarily. And I think that's a nice way to approach.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Shakespeare.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it also gave us, you know, or gave me an idea of real, like, value and self worth and. Yeah. I was like, oh, my opinion on this stands for something that's good, you know?

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's amazing when you have one teacher that kind of does it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because they save lives.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mark Marin]

They make lives.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I just wasn't good in it. I mean, you know, and I was young, but I was just like, oh, this is, you know, this is good. Maybe. Maybe I'm good at this. Maybe I could. Maybe I could pursue it. He made me feel like that was possible.

[Mark Marin]

What's your relationship with Shakespeare now?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, man, I'd be scared to do it now, but I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So you succeed enough to want to go to school for it?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, I went to a performing arts high school.

[Mark Marin]

To the one.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, no. It was crazy. So another hit I took. I didn't play McBenny.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then this kind of middle school program was so good that about half of the class from 51 would get into LaGuardia, which is like the game school. And I did my monologues and I knew they were very good. I just did. And about half the class got in. And a couple of the kids that got in are still very good friends of mine.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I didn't get in. And I got into all the other ones, got into the school called Frank Sinatra, Professional Performing Arts School. There might have been one other.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I went to two in one year. Frank Sinatra. I dropped out middle of the year. Went to PPAs. I just didn't like. I just didn't like it. But then I realized that was just a problem with school, you know, I think, you know, I just didn't like school, but I went to PPAs, and then I auditioned for LaGuardia again, and then I got in. And I could have went there sophomore year, but I felt like I was, like, sticking it to them.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

By staying at PPIs, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Good.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's a good attitude.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

So I.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So I stayed there. And that was a school on. On 48th, between 8th and 9th and in Hell's Kitchen. And it was a lot of kids that were already working. It was a lot of, like, theater kids and stuff like that.

[Mark Marin]

And so what do you. What are you just doing all of It. Song and dance, man.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, all of it. I mean, not. There was, like, a musical theater department. This was, like, the straight drama program I was in. But, yeah, we would have movement, we'd have vocal.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

We'd have sort of like, script breakdown. We'd have acting techniques.

[Mark Marin]

You didn't do any musicals?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I didn't do any musicals. No, no, no. I was. That. That was scary to me.

[Mark Marin]

Why? Singing or dancing?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Singing. Dancing, I had no problem with. I like dancing. Yeah, but the singing was scary.

[Mark Marin]

Did you get an opportunity to do any dance?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I started in dance.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I did ballet, tap, and jazz for a long time before I ever found acting with John McEnany.

[Mark Marin]

So when you were a kid.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You were tapping it out.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's interesting, because you're kind of, like. Kind of a tough guy now.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I portray a tough guy? Maybe, sometimes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But you were, like, the dancing kid.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, I don't think that was how I was. How I was known, but, yeah, I liked it. You know, I had a lot of energy as a kid, and like I said, I. It was very hard for me to focus.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And my parents put me. And all. I did sports, too. My parents put me. I was wrestling and I was playing soccer. I was playing baseball.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Doing all the stuff. But it just was. They were just like, we gotta run this kid out, I think.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, right, right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So they added dance to the mix.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And. And I think dance again. It was that.

[Mark Marin]

But was it fun?

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was fun. And it was that, again, it was eyes on you.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it was also like, you know, I was the only boy, you know, and I was kind of great as a young man with a bunch of, you know, with a bunch of girls and. Yeah, I liked it. I liked it a lot. Do you still dance for a while? Yeah, sure. I mean, I go out and dance for a while.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's been a long time now.

[Mark Marin]

Rockwell can't stop dancing.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Great dancer, great actor. I love that guy so much, man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I love that guy.

[Jeremy Allen White]

He's a good guy.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, he's. I. I think he's my friend.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

We'll text occasionally. Well, we just. We did an animated movie. We're in the Bad Guys together.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Of course. My daughters love that movie.

[Mark Marin]

They do. Oh, good.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So. So Sam is. He's a good guy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But he loves to dance.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, man. He's a good dancer. I mean, I remember seeing him in the Fosse Movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Fosse. But even way back, like, what was it? It was like Charlie's Angels or something.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

He does. There's this, like, montage kind of like. It's like violence and then hair, him dancing around and it's. I thought it was so, so cool.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So when. When the first roles start coming, you. I. I guess because you started so young, you're. You're able to kind of develop a comfort on set and stuff to where, you know, by the time you get the bigger opportunities, you're kind of seasoned already.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, I think some of the best performances I ever see are kids because they just. They don't have that. Self conscious. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I just watched Close Encounters of Third Kind.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Because they've got a new 70 millimeter print.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And that kid. It's like, well, how the. Did they get that out of that kid?

[Jeremy Allen White]

They just don't. It's. They don't have any other choice, but to be honest, you know what I mean? It's like they haven't. They haven't gotten all messy in their head yet.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then I think, you know, some of them are able to protect that for a long time. Do you ever see this movie Close?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I don't know.

[Mark Marin]

I don't think so.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's. I'm gonna mess it. It's like French or Danish, but it's just about these. These young boys. They're 12 or 13. They have a really close relationship. Very, like, loving their best friends. But they get older and there's some, like, homophobia going on at school. And they're like, oh, maybe. Maybe we shouldn't be this close. And they start questioning how, you know, how much they love each other. You know, and these kids, this movie came out, like, two or three years ago. Some of the best. It's the best. It's really the best.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I see those performances and I go, just protect that, you know? Or the film with. Two years Ago, it won a bunch of awards. The Father Falls. Oh, the Anatomy of the Fall.

[Mark Marin]

The Anatomy of a Fall.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah. That kid was, like, brilliant. And I'm just like, protect that thing. So anyway, I. Yeah, I think I was lucky in the start because I was like, whatever. This is fun.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that's the way to approach this thing. But the older you get, it becomes, oh, maybe I'm doing this now. Or this is how I make a living. Or this is how, like, people are paying attention.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it's hard to Maintain that thing of just, you know.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's interesting. So you're saying like a kid can't help but be honest and if he knows the task at hand. Because a lot of kids, kids, you know, they, they get self conscious still and they, they act like they think they should act.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

So the ones that.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's not the case all.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

Right. So the ones that can get past that are really kind of gifted people. I mean, Brolin was a kid actor. There's a lot of kid actors. You have kids, right?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah. Two. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Daughters.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Two daughters, six and four.

[Mark Marin]

Now are they, are they actors?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, I don't know, but no, no, we're not like putting them into class or trying to get him in front of a camera or anything like that.

[Mark Marin]

But you can still see that, that honesty, I guess.

[Supporting Interviewer]

For sure.

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, kids have that, you know, all the time. I mean, you know, they'll, they'll look right through you.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Sometimes surprise you.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Just in the way they carry themselves.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then they bring that, you know, to, you know, set.

[Mark Marin]

I don't have any and I have no kids, so I don't know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I find it very touching though, for some reason.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Well, have you ever been kind of like torn down by a kid? You know what I mean? Like they can kind of see that thing.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're don't like about you a little bit or something.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. And that's where I'm like, sort of like, I think we're done.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You're my friend's kid. I don't have to put up with this.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, totally. You walk away.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Keep that to yourself, kid.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so I was, Yes, I was young. It was fun.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it felt, yeah, it felt like easy in a nice way and it felt fun.

[Mark Marin]

How old were you when you had kids? I mean, you're a kid, you're young.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah. Pretty, pretty young, I think in this day and age. Or at least in like cities like LA and New York.

[Mark Marin]

Did you meet your wife, your ex wife through acting?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, yeah, I met her at this school. I met her when I was 14 at PPA.

[Mark Marin]

That's crazy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And you got locked in at 14?

[Jeremy Allen White]

We weren't, we weren't together when we met, but we were. I mean, I was infatuated.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

When I met her when I was.

[Mark Marin]

14, it never went away.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Not really. No.

[Supporting Interviewer]

No.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, it carried and like we, you know, we had a couple false starts and we Kind of followed each other around. She transferred to a different school. I was heartbroken. We ended up doing a movie together by chance a year after that, after school, which is the first where everyone.

[Mark Marin]

Was going to be buddies.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Exactly. And then we happened to move to LA kind of at the same time. So we were kind of just like following each other around and the infatuation was mutual. I think most of the time it was coming from me.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But yeah, yeah, of course.

[Mark Marin]

Because when I think back at the girls, I was infatuated in high school. I just never had a shot.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think there were periods where I didn't have a shot. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But yeah, we. We gave it a real go around when we were like 24. Oh, yeah, 25. And then. Yeah, we had Ezzy when we were 27 in New York. In LA.

[Mark Marin]

In LA.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So you've lived here the whole time?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, I got. I got a job out of high school. I got this show, Shameless.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah, that was big for a long time.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

With Macy and that crew.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Exactly, exactly.

[Mark Marin]

And that was. That was great, right?

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was great, man. I mean, that was my schooling.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, because we did that for. I was 18 when we did the pilot and I was 30 when we finished.

[Mark Marin]

That's crazy.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's crazy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Never. And it was always exciting.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, I mean, I think that's a long time to do a show.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It becomes a job, right?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, for sure. And there was hard years in there just for me where I was like. I was like, you know, very grateful, obviously. I mean, it carried me for so long, made me feel very secure. I always had someplace to be. I loved all the people involved. But, yeah, there were certain years, certainly where it was difficult for me to find the stuff.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Or the inspiration.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And Macy's kind of a hardcore actor.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mark Marin]

Did you like. Did you pick up stuff from him?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, I mean, he's a serious guy too. And I think that's what it was. I mean, I think that that cast was very young.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And. But we all cared a lot and we wanted to show up.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I think at times, you know, we could spin out of control. You're talking about ages 10 to 24, kind of when we started.

[Mark Marin]

And you were 18 through.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I was 18 and Cameron was 16 and Emma and Ethan were 10, 11.

[Mark Marin]

So you're living in LA. You're living in LA on a show. On a show you hit 20s.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You can, you know, party.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yep, yep. Yep.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think it was that thing too, I was having a little bit of frustration with. You know, it's the dream now to have a job in la, now that I have two daughters and, you know, I have a job that's consistent. But at the time, my peers and stuff, they were shooting in South Africa, they were shooting in the uk and they were shooting in Canada and South America. And I was like, well, I want to. I want to travel the world. Like, what's going on? I'm shooting at Warner Brothers.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, yeah. But now it's like. It's a gift.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, totally. At that time, I was so frustrated by it. And now.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

If I could just see my girls all the time and not have to bounce around everywhere.

[Mark Marin]

Where do you shoot the bear?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Chicago.

[Mark Marin]

So that's something that. But Chicago's cool.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Chicago's great. I mean, I love the city of Chicago, you know, but. But it's far. You know, I get on a. I. I get on a plane every weekend. It's just. It's. Come home.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's just.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You just get tired.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's fucking nuts.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But that. So that show came directly right on. On the heels of Shameless.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, yeah. I got a. I did this movie called the Rental that Dave Franco directed.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, I think I saw that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was made or it came out during 2020.

[Mark Marin]

Right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it's kind of one of the only movies that was like, being released during that.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, right. Cuz you, of course, you and. And Allison.

[Mark Marin]

We're on Glow.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I did that movie. And Chris Storer, who created the Bear, was a producer on it. And I didn't talk to Chris very much. He was kind of in and out while we were shooting it. We were shooting in Oregon.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And Chris Store, you know, he comes up to me, goes, hey, buddy. And I'm like, oh, hey, man.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And he says, what do you think you're going to be doing in like three years? And I was like, I. I don't. I don't know. Like, you know, I think I got a couple more years of Shameless probably, and then we'll see. And he goes, all right, I'm gonna call you in three years. And I was like, okay, guy. You know, it was like, so Hollywood. I was like, I'm never gonna hear from that guy again. And we're wrapping up season 11 of the show and I get a text, you know, Chris Storr, I'd like to talk to you about this thing. And three years later. Yeah, yeah, just about. And I talked to him about it, and it was, you know, Shameless took place in Chicago. Bear takes place in Chicago. There's a certain amount of dysfunction going on in both.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think I was kind of like, I've been doing Shameless for 12 years, and I was like, I gotta get out of Chicago or I gotta do this or do that. And I was hesitant. Even though I love Chris and the script was so good, I was hesitant, but then I had this moment, I think, of just going, like, this script is so good. Like, who am I to. Regardless of the environment of it, regardless of. I was like, get out of your own way. And just. If it's good, it's good. And follow this and so well.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. And I guess the parts. As far as dysfunction goes and carrying the weight of, you know, that particular disposition.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You know, as a guy who, you know, you know, I'm a cranky fuck.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

And, you know, I'm a sober fuck, but, you know, the. The. The weight of it. I mean, did your life get out of control? I guess it did a little.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

At times, for sure. Absolutely. Several times.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

How, like. Well, what was the strain on the dynamic in your family heading into, like, the Bear?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think I was such an anxious. I mean, I'm still an anxious person.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, and I think when Shameless ended, I was, like, very difficult person to be around.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Because I was scared. You know, I'd had 11 years of stability. I had a family outside of my now new family, you know, and I was walking into the unknown for. For the first time in a very long time.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I remember doing my last ADR session at Warner Brothers for Shameless. And I live not far from the studio, and I was driving, leaving Warner Brothers, driving on Mulholland.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I started having a panic attack and I had to pull over on the side of the road because my arms. Yeah, my arms went all kind of numb and. And tingly.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And my neck started feeling very tight and chest.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's every morning. That's every morning, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So you're familiar and.

[Mark Marin]

I really am, dude.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I had to pull over and look, I'm not saying, like, you know, my wife has a lot of. Ex wife has a lot of space for that kind of thing, but I'm just saying I was a very. I think I was very difficult to.

[Mark Marin]

Be around because you get into your own loop and, you know, everything's Fucked.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally catastrophic thinking. I have that, too. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Did you. Did you fix it?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, every day I have my tools, and I've got the things that I try to do to help It.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

It.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But no. I don't know if it's ever going to be.

[Mark Marin]

What the Is that, dude? Like, I'm like. I just. Like, I started, like. I'm 61.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And, you know, it just became too much.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

With the world in general, but just the idea of having that. That fundamental dread.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like. Like someone recently. Because I talk about it a lot, and I'm. I finally started taking a medicine, but I won't take. Take, like an ssri. Take this other stuff.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

This busporin.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Which is specifically for this type of anxiety.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I look into it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. And.

[Mark Marin]

But the doc said to me, it's so funny because I do a bit on the new special. He's like, it usually doesn't work. And I'm like, that sounds perfect. But, like, I just upped the dose and now I'm clammy. But it's exhausting, man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But I know that I must have had it my whole life, and I know that, like, I just had. What is it? 26 years sober.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Congratulations.

[Mark Marin]

But. But, like, I can't even imagine, like, that had to been why I was fucking doing that.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

You know what I mean? Like, because, like, I'm not like, a party guy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm just doing it to get level.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I can relate.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And. But it still happens, and it's just this immediate thing, and I. I noticed it last night. Like, I do it in an instant. Like, me and my buddy are walking across the street, walking across Fairfax to go to a restaurant that I made reservations at, and there's people out front and my fauce. My first thought is, like, nah, fuck.

[Jeremy Allen White]

They'Re gonna give our table. Or it's gonna be a problem.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I'm two minutes away, but I gotta put myself through the whole. Yeah, we're fucked.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I'm a nightmare to, like, travel with, you know, like, getting on a plane, especially with my girls. Or. Or, you know, it's just, like, days ahead.

[Mark Marin]

Totally.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I'm panicked about, we're going to be late. Someone's going to mess something up. Something's going to go wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's terrible.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. But then. But once you're on the plane, you're like, all right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, it's okay.

[Mark Marin]

And meanwhile, everyone's crying.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Marin]

And you're like, what's the matter? Everything's good, you know, put us through.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, it's all. I'm still here. We're still here. It all has been okay. And there's no reason to believe that it shouldn't continue to be.

[Mark Marin]

I know, but if we, if, if we didn't do that, then who would we be? For sure.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So when does the drinking you.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, let's see. I mean, I think always it was to a degree.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Do you find in retrospect that it was more self medicating than oh, let's have a good time?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I wasn't like, I mean, not to say I didn't have good times while I was drinking and stuff.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But in the end, no, it was very, you know, I was selfish medicated.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was lonely. Yeah, it was, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Oh yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Were you like, you know, after you'd shoot, you just go sit.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Sometimes.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And isolate, you know, it's the worst.

[Mark Marin]

Because like when you do that, which is my nature as well. And I guess you're the same. Like, you know, I've got a couple of friends.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

You know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But like ultimately you're just sort of like. And I do it sober where I'm just sort of like, I don't want to talk, you know, I'm just gonna hang out here for sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that just makes it where. And there's also shame involved. Like I think the last couple like runs I had, like, I knew I shouldn't have been doing it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I knew I was lying. I knew there was like, there was shame and so it was already like, it was just trouble, man.

[Mark Marin]

But isn't the fucked up thing is like, and, and I don't know, I'm. I'm just talking now to you as a guy because like I'm having these type of realizations where like, if you look at the arc of my mind, there's something about the shame and the, the self judgment that I think is the goal.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Like that you gotta look at it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Right. Like, you know, like fine drinking, that's the problem.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

But the consistent thing with all the behavior is like I'm a idiot.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And I, I feel guilty or whatever.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Well, that's an interesting thing too, I think, like, you got to be careful with that though too because then you're, you get into narcissism and you get into a victim.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're like, like I'm guilty of everything.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're not guilty of everything. You're guilty for what you're guilty of. Right. Like, you know, there's a selfishness, periods of shame and guilt that I've been in where I'm like, how could I have done this to the world?

[Supporting Interviewer]

Right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Right. Oh, what an egomaniac. You have to be to. To think, you know, you've done this.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Right.

[Mark Marin]

Well, that's everybody. Well, that's that. That old program saying. It's like you're the piece of. At the center of the universe. Right.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Exactly.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

There's another one I like from the. From the rooms where it's some guy said once God doesn't wake up and think he's you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I love that one.

[Mark Marin]

You heard that one?

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Mark Marin]

It's like a great one.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So what did it take for you to finally get. Get over it, get past it?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think, you know, I'm. I'm hesitant talking about this because a lot of is to do with my ex. My, like, place to tell that if.

[Mark Marin]

She can't story of it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But it was just watching. I was just really close to losing everything, you know, like, I was not going to see my kids as much as I wanted to.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Who knows if I would be able to show up for work, Right. My parents or my friends. I was. I was risking. I was risking it.

[Mark Marin]

Did somebody reach out to you and make it appealing? Or was it sort of like, you got to do this or you're out?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think I did that. I mean, I think. I think I knew. I think I knew. I mean, what it came down to was at the core of it, you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Know.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was my kids and showing up for them. You know, I think, like. Or that's what got me in the door.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, and then, of course, it became a bunch of other things, but I think that that fear was enough to get me to show up.

[Mark Marin]

And you're using the tools and it's fucking working. Yeah, it's fucking good, right?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Two years in May.

[Mark Marin]

It's great. Yeah, it's fucking great.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Like. Like the one thing I like about the recovery racket, and I talk openly, you don't have to, but it's just sort of like this idea that. That they say the obsession will be lifted.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And it is. Yeah, it's fucking crazy.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Mark Marin]

It's like.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's amazing.

[Mark Marin]

You can be around the shit and she's like, not even like, I'm not, you know, I'm not even thinking that that's a solution.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

What a fucking gift.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I also did it, you know, I did about a year without the room. Ex was pregnant with her first because I was just like, let me. This is no good.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

You're just gonna white knuckle it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But the obsession remains that way. You know what I mean? I wasn't drinking, but I was sure as hell.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Thinking about drinking all the time. Or wondering about it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Wondering if I could get away with it at this point. Or what if I'm on a plane? Or what if I'm away? And I wouldn't do it. But it was time consuming for sure. The obsession was there.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But it's better than just the regular drink.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's something specific to dread.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

I'm not a. Well, back before I fully got sober and, you know, when I was married the first time, it was like, you know, I'd have to go on the road and that would be where it would happen. So, like, it just. Yeah. You have a month, you know, that's how, you know you have a problem. It's like if you have a trip a month away and all, you think, oh, man.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally. Totally.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's gonna be great.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then that was scary, too. Cause I think that was a similar way I was looking at it. Work sometimes.

[Mark Marin]

Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Where?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I'll be away.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Secret land.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And it's my secret time. And I'll still be able to show up. I'll be able to do my job.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I'll also have my nights, and I can do what I need to do.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that was, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that's just the secrets, man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, good for you.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Thank you.

[Mark Marin]

That's a miracle.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Thanks, man.

[Mark Marin]

It's the best. Sorry. Let's talk about wrestling.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Mark Marin]

That movie's great.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, thanks, man.

[Mark Marin]

And you're great in it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Thank you.

[Mark Marin]

Like, that's. That's like a. Watch it a couple of times if you can take it.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Sean Durkin, man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Holy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Now, like, I have to assume. And that was what. You were already a season or two into the bear.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think that was between our first and second seasons.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Now when you see, like, a role like that, you know, I, I. Because, you know, that story, it's even worse.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's even worse than the one portrayed.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Exactly.

[Mark Marin]

And it's fucking nuts.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Now when you take something like that on. Because outside of the work you've done with fucked up guys in the past, there was such a. And I think you see it in the Bear a bit, and. I don't know. Shameless. But you have a full backstory of the reasons why that character is who he is and why that family is who he is.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

So I imagine when you read a script like that, you're like, holy fuck. You know, half this work is done for me in terms of who this guy is. Like, you know, you don't have to, like, put a backstory into place because you're living in it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure.

[Mark Marin]

And what was. When you read it, what was your first kind of thought?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think the tragedy of it was overwhelming, you know, it was almost unbelievable.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But I had known Sean for a long time.

[Mark Marin]

The director.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So Sean produced that same movie after school that I did when I was 16. So I knew Sean since I was 16.

[Mark Marin]

That's fucking crazy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And so I wanted it, you know, I was just excited because I love Sean. And then it was like a bit of like, oh, boy. Because I knew that, you know, not just the. Whatever. The physical stuff or.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But. But I just knew everybody was going to be living in a kind of hell. Uncomfortable.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Like, place and energy for a long time.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That's always like, you take a big breath and.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And you go, oh.

[Mark Marin]

And that's before. And that's before sober time, too.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

That is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So, I mean, I was in bad shape. I was ready.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I was ready to go there and. But I was. I was excited, you know, I was excited because it was Sean. I was excited to get ripped. Were you excited to get ripped? I was excited to. Because everybody. I don't care where, you know, I think every actor wants to have an opportunity to do a reason a physical, whatever it is, doesn't have to be getting.

[Mark Marin]

It has to be sort of like, you're gonna get me in shape. Yeah, exactly. Okay, great. And the studio's gonna pay for it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But, yeah, man, I was excited. It was a great cast. Like I said, I love Sean. I mean, those were the guys.

[Mark Marin]

And Zach showed up.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Zach showed up big time.

[Mark Marin]

Holy.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And he was a sweetheart. I don't know if you've ever spoken.

[Mark Marin]

No, no, no.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But he's a very, very sweet, loving guy. He was great in the movie. Harris Dickinson's, like, great. Yeah, it was great. Like Moira Holt and You work with Chavo.

[Mark Marin]

I work with Chavo.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, exactly. I knew that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah. I. I didn't. I didn't wrestle, but I. I mean, I knew Chava. He was there all the time.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

He's like the guy. Now, was there anything? Because, you know, look, I. I went into Glo as not a wrestling fan.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And now my producer, who's like, you know, just a brilliant guy and, like, a very sophisticated guy, you know, has been a lifelong wrestling fan.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And, like, you know, for some reason, I was just like, dude, you're such a smart guy. Why would you. But he loves it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And over time, you know, from doing GLOW and from, you know, being in a relationship with my producer, Brendan, you know, I got a way of appreciation of the sort of kayfab experience and what it really. How it reflects life and. And. And why I imagine acting. It's like. And right now, we live in a wrestling culture, politically.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, it's all fight. Did. Did. Did you grow an appreciation for it?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, because I didn't.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Similarly, you know, I didn't grow up. That was my thing. I had friends who. Who really enjoyed it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But were you one of the. Were you the guy who was sort of like, you know, it's fake. What do you guys.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, a little bit, I think, too.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I was just like. I don't know. You know, I don't. I didn't get it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then you spend some time with Chavo and you hear the way he talks about it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And the storytelling of it.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And you're like, oh, okay, okay. I'm kind of putting this together a little bit. And then you think of the physicality of it. You know, these are athletes, you know, and the way they're training, of course. And then I think during that time, there was also something very, like, punk about it.

[Mark Marin]

Sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Where they were really putting their bodies on the line in a way.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

That was, like, violent and interesting and punk.

[Mark Marin]

Because it's. It's regional.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

It's like, you know, they're these guys with whole wrestling communities, you know, doing these veterans halls.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yes.

[Mark Marin]

It's. It's so punk rock.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It was, like, grassroots in this.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And then I think the big change was, for me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

When I was. When I was performing it, which is like, I thought, I'm gonna get all the moves, you know, or I'm gonna get strong enough or I'm gonna be able to jump off this and Flip over that. And that was my focus.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I was pretty proud of myself for how I was showing up.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And Chava was like, you're not. You're not paying attention to the story.

[Mark Marin]

You're not performing.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're not performing.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're just going through the thing. And he was like, you look good. Like, you're doing all the things, and it looks right.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But it's the moments in between where you're capturing the audience, you're capturing the attention. You're telling the story of the, you know, the baby face and the heel and all that stuff, and. And you're building the suspense in the moments in between. If you're just running around and you're whacking each other and you're flipping around and you're just going from move to move. It's almost like it's too fast. You know, they tell you that when you're doing, like, stunt work in a movie.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I remember in the rental, I had to do this thing where I'm, like, wailing on this guy, and I just tried to, like, hit him as fast as I could and hard as I could. And they were like, we're not. It's not really showing on camera. It's just weird. Can you slow it down?

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I was like, I don't want to, because I'm feeling the thing. I want to do the thing. And they're just like, slow it down.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Act.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think. Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's a similar thing. You got it. You got to slow it down so people can get connected.

[Mark Marin]

But I have to assume, like, that that had some, like, informative impact on just acting in general.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mark Marin]

I mean, to, like. Because the job is like. Cause you're in a movie. It's almost like a movie within a movie or a play within a movie that. The context of the theater of wrestling, to have those tricks where you're kind of able to physically and through focus, build suspense around these movements. That's like a fucking whole different level of acting.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah. It's what I imagine, like, I don't know, like, going to, like, clown school or mime or whatever that is. You're learning to tell a story physically.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And of course, there's value in that for any actor.

[Mark Marin]

It's funny. You're gonna have to list Ch. One of your great actor acting.

[Jeremy Allen White]

There you go. He's on the list. McEnany Chavo Pereira.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So how did you handle, like, how Are you handling it in general, this. You got pretty big, pretty quick.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I was really lucky because it didn't feel like that for a long time, you know, I mean, I was doing Shameless for a long time. I did my first movie when I was 15.

[Mark Marin]

So you're kind of ready for it?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I feel lucky and glad that it was age 30 where I kind of hit it, rather than, whatever, 19 or 20.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And, yeah, I think I just have a lot of. I had a lot of time and a lot of trying and, you know.

[Mark Marin]

How'S the attention, though? Does it fuck with you? I mean, you're kind of in that zone of it's a little tricky to walk down the street.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I think there were. There was a couple periods, I think, when the divorce stuff was going on and I was dating somebody who was far more famous than me at that. That kind of time after we were getting divorced, and. And, yeah, I got a little bit of the. You know, they were kind of at my house and people were following me around.

[Mark Marin]

And how'd you handle that?

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, I got angry a couple times.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that doesn't really do much for you.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think that's just giving them meat.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I think, you know, my publicist, who I've been with for a long time, it's just kind of like, just be boring. And I am pretty boring, you know, really? And she was just like, you just gotta wait and. Yeah. Like, when I'm in la, my life is pretty simple, you know, I like to go out to dinner every once in a while.

[Mark Marin]

Well, it's weird here because, like, there's. It's so common here.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And that, you know, the business has always been here, so most people are relatively respectful.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And if not, resentful.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. To be honest, I'm pretty unbothered.

[Mark Marin]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

That's good. So what happens now? So you just did what, the third.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Season of the Bear, the fourth season just came out.

[Mark Marin]

Right. You going back?

[Jeremy Allen White]

We're gonna go back. We're gonna do another one in January.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And. And, yeah, I just did a thing, this thing with Austin I'd mentioned.

[Supporting Interviewer]

What is that?

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's this thing called Enemies. It's very, like, sort of like it out. No, no, no. We just filmed it a couple months ago. And it's fun. It's very like Michael Mann.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Oh, good.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, he did it. No, no, no. But he was like a big, you know, influence.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And yeah, now I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm hanging around. I went on a big, you know, vacation right after I finished that, which was lovely, and took my, My kids rented a house on the East Coast.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

For the month of July, like on the shore.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

This little. Little town called Bellport Village. On Long Island.

[Mark Marin]

On Long island, yeah. Yeah.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And you just hung out?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, just hung out. Had friends out there. My, My folks are still in. They got my sister, her boyfriend, the girls. Yeah, it was great.

[Mark Marin]

Oh, it's great.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And now we're, you know, getting. Getting ready to get the. Go back to work the Bruce movie out and. Go back to work.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So the Bruce movie. How'd you feel about.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Was very hard.

[Mark Marin]

Well, yeah, especially. Cause he's sitting there the whole time. But in terms of playing Bruce and doing your own singing, I, I, from what I remember on set, that there were times where Bruce couldn't tell the tr. Difference.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, you know, I, I had not had a lot of experience or any experience singing, playing guitar, any of it. And so that was daunting to say the least, in the beginning. And I didn't have. I mean, I had a lot of time, but I didn't have as much time as I would have liked. You never do, you know, But I had about six months to kind of.

[Mark Marin]

What's fortunate with those songs? The guitar playing is not like.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's not a lot of.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

The chords are pretty simple. There's not many of them. And a lot of the songs. Songs are in the same. Yeah, but, but the singing was a, you know, a gamble and, but so what'd you do?

[Mark Marin]

Just kind of like, figure out at first just to. To mimic it? Like, do you listen to it?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

And then kind of record yourself?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, I worked with this guy, Eric Vitro, who's kind of like the guy, you know, he, he helped Austin with the Elvis movie. He helped Timothee Chalamet with the Dylan movie. He's kind of the go to, you know, and he works with a lot of. Of amazing, like, vocalists and, you know, real singers and performers. But I got together with him just to, like, see what I can do or see where we could get at least, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And that's what you start with.

[Mark Marin]

Right?

[Jeremy Allen White]

You're just like, right, Can I. Can I sing? Can I sing in Keeg? Do I have a Good ear. Like, is all this stuff, like working? You know, and then, you know, you try to find a little bit of that rasp and then you kind of try to get that. You start messing around with nasal.

[Mark Marin]

That Jersey phrasing.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, the phra. And that phrasing. I mean, the phrasing on that record's tough. Like, there's some run on. Like, it's like, you know, and.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So I started with kind of all that. And then I really have to give Eric credit because he was there to kind of. Or I thought he was there to be like, you know, this is how you sing a song. This is how you make it sound good. But he would catch me not feeling connected to it and doing what as an actor, I should have just been doing naturally, which is like, what are you talking about?

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

What's going on?

[Mark Marin]

Right, right.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Have you written this down? A whole bunch.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Just think about, is this the work of who's Bruce playing or which moment in Bruce's life is this, you know, all this stuff. It should have been simple, but I was so, so worked up with how does it sound? Being self conscious and sounding like Bruce.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So that was like a break, a breakthrough. And then, you know, we pre recorded. And so that gave me the ability to like a lot of vocalists. You know, you sing the song for an afternoon.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And they go ahead and they put together your. Your greatest hits. You know what I mean?

[Mark Marin]

Right. But it's interesting because it's like the same advice Chavo gave gave you.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Yeah, totally.

[Mark Marin]

How do you tell a story in this format that you are not familiar with?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Totally. And I think I'm all worked up in. Well, I'm not familiar with this. And I gotta. Let me get this move right.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Let me get this.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Am I singing in key or like, you know, but at the end of the day, I think, yeah. If it's. If it's honest.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Whether it sounds just like. Or looks just like the guy, people will believe it and they'll follow you, you know, And. And I remember Bruce was great the first time he heard one of my pre records. Cause he was like, you sound like me, but you're singing the song and you're making the song your own. You've got your connection with the song. And I think once he kind of gave me that permission, not just with the music, but in a sense with the entirety of the film, I feel like that released me from a little bit of the anxiety. And he did that early.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Now, okay, so between the Bear and Shameless and the wrestling movie and this thing, are you ready to come out of the tunnel of, you know, kind of like existential darkness?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I mean, it's Lonely Men is really what it is.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

You know, and making a movie, making a TV show is already kind of a lonely existence.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, yeah. So you can use that.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So, yeah, it's right there for you. But, yeah, I'm ready to take it easy on myself, for sure.

[Mark Marin]

Well, what do you want to do? Is the Enemies? Is that a comedy?

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, no.

[Mark Marin]

Is that more Lonely Men?

[Jeremy Allen White]

That's Two Very Lonely Men.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

So what do you want to do?

[Jeremy Allen White]

I don't know. You know, I mean, my rule has always been just try to work with people that you admire that you feel like you could learn something from. That's my real, only, like, you know, thing.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But, yeah, now I'm in a very privileged position where, you know, I'm looking at a couple scripts and there's someone I admire to do with any one of those things. And so, yeah, I think, you know, there's certainly a. Searching for something.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. Well, I mean, I think you've got what it takes, and you could just sort of like. Bradley Cooper seems to bounce around from format to format, for sure. Sure. You know, like, it's gotta be. Do you feel like there's a risk of being typecast or.

[Jeremy Allen White]

No, I don't subscribe to that. I mean, I think maybe it might have been more of a thing in generations before, but I think a lot of actors, you know, they can make sort of careers and interesting careers not doing the same thing. Sure.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But living in a kind of a space, you know what I mean?

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

And I don't discredit those performers at all.

[Mark Marin]

Sure. Most of them do take the risk, so, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

At a point.

[Supporting Interviewer]

For sure.

[Mark Marin]

Do little things here and there.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Anything funny in the new scripts?

[Jeremy Allen White]

Anything funny in the new scripts? Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at something. I'm looking at something I might do at the end of this year and. And, yeah, it's quick. It's. It's funny. There's a lot of wit.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Okay.

[Jeremy Allen White]

I wouldn't call it, like, you know, it's not a comedy.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

But it's certainly not, you know.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

It's not. It's not a man on the. On the verge. You know what I mean?

[Mark Marin]

Well, good, because I think you need a break.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Creatively, I appreciate that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Mark Marin]

Great talking to you, man.

[Jeremy Allen White]

So good talking to you. I appreciate it, man.

[Mark Marin]

Yeah, me too. There you go.

[Supporting Interviewer]

That's.

[Mark Marin]

That was great. He's a good guy again. Deliver Me From Nowhere premieres at the Telluride Film Festival this weekend. It opens in theaters on October 24th. Jeremy is nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy for his role in the Bear. And that's a great show as well. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, people. On Thursday, I talked to Oscar winner Regina King, who's in the new Darren Aronofsky movie, Caught Stealing. It's rare that you see a movie where violence isn't necessarily gratuitous as just detached from character, just something you expect. Cause all the violence in it is pretty violent.

[Regina King]

Yeah, that's what I keep hearing from people. It's pretty violent.

[Mark Marin]

But I think the reason people respond to that is. Cause it's all very character driven and the frame of the movie is fairly real. He went out of his way because I lived in that area where he shot for years.

[Jeremy Allen White]

Oh, wow.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Really?

[Mark Marin]

I lived right on Second street between A and B. So, like, walking by Benny's burritos and Kim's video, I'm like. Because I knew he had rebuilt it, but I literally lived on that block for, like, a couple of years. And he kind of made it pretty gritty, and it seemed like the right time. And there was something, I tell you, once, you know, Liev and Vincent as the Hasidic Jews, it's so hard not to see guys doing those characters and wait for laughs.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Marin]

But it's the opposite. Yeah, but there's that one scene with Carol Kane. I guess you haven't seen it yet.

[Regina King]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Mark Marin]

I know.

[Regina King]

I can't wait, because the feedback has been really great. And honestly, when the script came my way first, I said, absolutely, I want to read it. When I learned it was Darren, I mean, there's like, every actor, there's, you know, you have your list of directors, filmmakers you want to work with, and I would say everybody. Darren is in their 10.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, I feel like it. You know, you just respect just his storytelling abilities so much. And so. So then I read the script, and I'm like, okay, so Darren Aronofsky's doing this story. Oh, all right.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Cause I'm all about don't be put in a box.

[Supporting Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, and it's very clear that, you know, you may not call this a comedy, but if Darren Aronofsky's gonna do a comedy. This is what the comedy is gonna be like.

[Mark Marin]

That's this Thursday's WTF episode with Regina King. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's a bit of guitar that I got through Peter Green, and he got it through a guy, I think, named Duster. Duster Bennett, is it? Yes. Yes, I believe so. I'll be playing this on the 10th at Largo with singing and more guitars.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

SA.

[Mark Marin]

Boomer lives monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels everywhere.