Episode 1673 - Regina King

Summary

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WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1673: Regina King

Date: August 28, 2025
Guest: Regina King

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Episode Overview

In this moving and deeply candid episode, Marc Maron welcomes Oscar-winning actor and director Regina King for a heartfelt conversation. The pair reflect on career milestones, the evolving craft of performance, lagging cultural memory, and the realities of grief—particularly King’s journey since the loss of her son, Ian. The discussion balances humor, professional insight, philosophical musings, and hard-won wisdom, offering listeners both an intimate portrait of King and larger meditations on living with loss, creativity, and authenticity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authenticity, Aging, and Finding Your Voice

[12:51–14:47]

• Maron and King bond over the theme of painful authenticity in their lives and careers, and how self-acceptance grows with age:
  • Regina King (13:10): “Some people never quite find that [authentic self].”
  • Discussing the liberation of accumulating “zero fucks” as you age.
• Maron shares how comedy, and especially performing, can retain anxieties even as you grow older.

2. Information Overload and Intentional Detachment

[15:04–19:09]

• Both reflect on the barrage of media noise and the value of intentional silence.
• King discusses her strategy of leaving her phone in her trailer on set; she credits Southland’s director Christopher Chulack for encouraging actors to be script-free and present.
  • King (19:16): “I’ve been leaving my phone in the trailer… It’s worked out really great.”

3. Craft and Training as an Actor

[20:12–26:06]

• King describes how enforced memorization (no script “sides” on set) improved her craft.
• Details from shooting Shirley: working with dialect coaches and learning complex speeches; challenges when multiple dialects are on set.
• Maron and King discuss being “people watchers” and how deeply observing others feeds their craft and empathy.

4. Family, Aging Parents, and the Cycle of Care

[26:06–33:36]

• Both share stories about navigating the decline of aging parents.
  • King discusses her mother’s dementia and the heartbreak of watching independence fade.
  • Maron relates his father’s increasing dementia and its surreal, sometimes darkly comic, realities.

5. Developing and Starring in Shirley

[33:36–41:21]

• King discusses the 17-year journey to bring Shirley (the film about Shirley Chisholm) to life with her sister/production partner, Raina.
• Discusses the competition (Viola Davis’s parallel project), script development, and finally collaborating with John Ridley.
  • King (34:53): “Her story, she’s like the godmother of first, you know, and she’s the blueprint."

6. Directing One Night in Miami

[42:06–45:07]

• King describes what drew her to direct One Night in Miami:
  • The script’s depiction of Black icons as “just regular men” debating and growing together stuck with her.
  • Regina King (43:18): “I could see all the men that really have made an impact in my life. It felt like if them and their friends were having real heart to heart discussions, debates, that they would look something like this."

7. Career Breaks and Working with John Singleton

[46:10–48:02]

• King reflects on pivotal moments: 227, Boyz n the Hood, and Jerry Maguire.
  • Singleton’s knack for spotting untapped talent in actors was instrumental in her career.

8. Recent Work: Darren Aronofsky’s Caught Stealing

[51:45–57:14]

• King and Maron unpack filming Caught Stealing:
  • King has not yet seen the film; Maron describes its gritty, authentic NYC setting and violence as “character-driven, not gratuitous.”
  • Discusses onset process, Aronofsky's approach, and the excitement of not being typecast.

9. Recognition, Awards, and the Grind Behind the Scenes

[63:50–66:14]

• King shares her surprise at learning she was the “most awarded actor” in a particular year and expresses the exhaustion of non-stop promotion and awards campaigning.

10. Grief, Mental Health, and Public Mourning

[66:32–85:31]

• Maron and King pivot into an extended, deeply personal exploration of grief—King’s after her son Ian’s suicide, Maron’s after the death of partner Lynn Shelton.
• They discuss public versus private mourning, the dangers of internet speculation, the stigma of mental illness, and the simultaneous presence of joy and sadness after loss.
  • King (67:39): "Sadness and happiness is always working in concert within me…”
  • On public scrutiny: King (72:12): "The amount of humility people don’t have is mind-blowing.”
  • On depression: King (75:52): “It’s just so irresponsible…to present depression as something that looks like people walking around sad. That’s not how it looks.”
  • On mental illness: “People can’t look at mental health as a disease…” (82:31).

11. Ongoing Healing and New Projects: “Me and You” Wine

[87:46–91:40]

• King details her new passion project: an artisanal “orange wine” venture named “Me and You” (M I A N U)—a tribute to Ian’s creativity and taste.
  • King (89:57): “How do I create new stories?... We’re gonna do an orange wine.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Regina King (68:21): “Sadness and happiness is always working in concert within me all the time.”
• Marc Maron (81:03): “If I didn’t have this sadness, then I’d be scared—because then that would mean Ian is not my world.”
• Regina King (81:35, via a card from her aunt): “Grief is love that doesn’t have anywhere to go.”
• King on media/online cruelty: “Keyboard gangsters.” (85:56)
• On depression: "It's a battle. Absolutely." (76:17)
• Regina King (90:01): “It was more just a way to... put something in a bottle that was the closest for people who did not get the opportunity to be blessed with Ian’s presence…”

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Important Timestamps

• 12:51–15:00 — Authenticity, aging, and self-acceptance
• 15:04–19:09 — Media noise and conscious detachment
• 26:06–33:36 — Discussing aging parents and caregiving
• 33:36–41:21 — Making Shirley
• 42:06–45:07 — Directing One Night in Miami
• 66:32–85:31 — Grief, loss, mental health, and public mourning
• 87:46–91:40 — “Me and You” wine: healing through creative tribute

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Overall Tone

The conversation is frank, empathetic, and at times raw. Maron and King move organically through humor, vulnerability, and safe honesty. The tone—though heavy in places—remains ultimately life-affirming, celebrating the roles of both joy and pain in a lived, creative life. The episode underscores the importance of speaking openly about grief and mental health, and insists on the power of genuine connection in the face of private and cultural adversity.

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Useful Links

• Caught Stealing: In theaters everywhere
• Me and You wines: meandyouwines.com (small batch orange wine, personal tribute to Ian)
• Regina King filmography: Notable works discussed include Shirley, If Beale Street Could Talk, One Night in Miami, Southland, and early work in 227, Boyz n the Hood, Jerry Maguire, and more

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For listeners seeking a nuanced exploration of coping, creativity, and survival, this episode stands among Maron’s most poignant and human interviews.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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All right, let's do this. How are you? What the. What the Buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Welcome. Welcome to it. How. How is everybody doing? How are you holding up? It's. Look, I'm okay. You know, today is a. It's a. It gets. It's a kind of a heavy talk. I guess I got to do a little bit of a. Not a trigger warning that. I don't really like that. That term, but towards the end of this conversation with Regina King, you know Regina King, she's been acting since she was a. Like a teenager on 2 to 7 and broke through with her roles in movies like Boyz n the Hood and Friday. She's an Oscar winner for her performance in if Beale Could Talk. She's won Emmys, Golden Globes, Independent Spirit Awards, a lot of stuff. Right now she's in the new Darren Aronofsky movie Caught Stealing, which I enjoyed. But towards the end, we do talk about the, the death of her son in, in some detail. He took his own life. And she's been public about it to a certain extent. It came up in terms of talking about grief and mental illness. So I'm just telling you now, it gets, it gets a little deep and emotional at the end. Okay. So if that's going to. Somehow, if you don't want to start crying on your run, you might want to. You might want to pause it when we start getting into that. But it's an important conversation. The whole thing was great. She's great. She's great. In this new movie, I went to see a screening of Caught Stealing, and it's interesting because they really, you know, Aronofsky really kind of gets the grit and, you know, kind of filth of New York at that time in the early 90s. It was. It was shot literally a block from my old house. A lot of it takes place on Avenue A, between, like, you know, 4th and 7th on Avenue A. He rebuilt the facade to Benny's burritos. Kim's video was there. So it's all very familiar to me because I was around then or even, like, shortly before that, I was still living down there. So it does have that vibe. But there's something I learned about watching this movie is that a lot of surprises in the movie, actually. And it's a pretty good story. And everyone's good. Regina's great. Austin Butler's great, Zoe Kravitz. Everyone's good. But there's something about violence that when it's not gratuitous, when it's not heightened or detached from, you know, character in a way, or if people get some violence done at them, to them, and they don't really have it coming, it's gnarly. There is an element of comedy to this thing, but the characters are deep. And Austin's character is a flawed and troubled guy. But it is definitely worth seeing. I mean, I think any Aronofsky movie is worth seeing. But it was kind of great to talk to Regina today. Cause it was. It was a. It was a. It's a good. It's a good talk. So my show at Largo tonight is sold out, but I'll be back there with the band on Wednesday, September 10th. You can go to wtfpod.com tour4tickets. Also, next week, we're doing an Ask Mark Anything bonus episode. So this is the last call for you to send in your questions. Just go to the link in the episode description of today's show and send me whatever you want to ask. Then get the bonus episode in your full Marin feed next Tuesday. How's that sound to you? I talked to a class down at the Annenberg School for Communications and Media or whatever. A woman asked me to come speak to her class. I didn't realize it was the first day of that class. I didn't realize that I didn't really know what the class was about. And she just asked me questions. And there may be. Maybe there was 20 people in the room, and there was Part of me that one time thought, like, oh, I could be a teacher. I don't think I can. I don't think I know how to be in front of an audience for very long without getting a laugh or knowing that I'm connecting. And I tell you, teachers have got a tough job. You've really got to somehow kind of put some sort of filter on to not, you know, wonder whether you're connecting or not. And also I think I forget what it was like to be in college and who I was in college and what I knew versus what I thought I knew. Big gap. Big gap. And if I really think back on it, like in philosophy class or logic class or even some of the classes about romantic poetry and stuff, it was way above my mental pay grade there. I, I, you know, I tried to take it all in, but I just, it. I did not come together. For me, I feel like it's just starting to come together now. I mean, I just. And I wasn't even talking in any lofty way, but I think there's just some basic things about talking about what you're thinking with points of reference and whatnot that could get totally lost. And I'm not saying they weren't paying attention. Some of them had good questions about show business and whatnot. But I just had that moment where I was walking on campus and I was like, I kind of remember this. I kind of remember who I was when I was, like, 21 or 20 at Boston University, wondering if my trench coat was cool or whether my glasses frames are okay, how was my haircut, you know, just kind of going to these classes and, you know, playing the role of student, playing the role of a smart guy or a guy, he thought he was smart. But in terms of what I really could grasp in college, in terms of, you know, the classes I was taking, you know, film studies and some satire classes, it's just the language of academics, the language of philosophy, the language of criticism. It was just my brain was too blown open. I couldn't contextualize or compartmentalize much of anything, and I still strove to do it. And I have my whole life, and I think I've gotten a little better at it. But sometimes when I try to read the texts of criticism or philosophy, I don't fucking know, I just dump stuff into my head. Sometimes I pull something out that kind of aligns with kind of what I'm thinking, then I feel validated, and I'm like, yeah, me and this guy who's a brilliant cultural critic. We're kind of thinking the same thing. I just had half a joke about it, but there's half a book about it here. But I think I nailed it. I think I had it. Maybe that's all I need. Maybe I can let that go. But I do know that I don't think I could be a teacher. But these conversations, they're still the lifeblood of what I do. And. And, you know, who I am. And this one, as I said earlier, it does get heavy. And, yeah, something kind of interesting happened during it. You know, I was able to kind of hold the space and listen and remain empathetic, but I didn't really kind of get. You know, I didn't really attach to my own grief till kind of later in the conversation about hers. And I think that was good. I think that's okay. You know, it was Lynn's. Lynn Shelton's birthday yesterday. I believe she would have been 60. And a couple people were like, I hope you're okay today. I'm like, I think about it a little bit every day. I think the anniversary of her passing is. Is more difficult. And I don't know if I've compartmentalized it, but there's some part of me that just knows that and has known for a while that in light of the tragedy of her death. But it's just people die, and I don't think I've become callous to it, but there's a bit of an acceptance to it, to the. To the struggle of living and the reality of dying and, you know, what you do in between. And, you know, how do you kind of navigate the urgency to. To get those tweaks done? So you go out fully formed and. Okay, be nice to go out. Okay, as opposed to go out. Hey, wait, wait. I got it. I'm okay. Cut. No, wait, let me. Give me one more cut. Fuck. I think I've decided on my epitaph. You know, these things come and go. Some of them are funny, some of them are honest. But I. I think on my tombstone, if I do that, or on my urn, on my plaque, I think I just wanted to say the other shoe.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Huh?

[Marc Maron]

What do you make of that? Pretty good. The other shoe. I like it. Anyway, Regina King is here, and as I said earlier, it does get heavy. It might be emotional for some of you. Towards the last 15 minutes or so of this talk, she's in the new Darren Aronofsky movie Caught Stealing, which opens tomorrow in theaters. She also has a new wine line called Me and you Spelled M I A N U. And that's important because it is a passion project that we discuss. It actually kind of, you know, kind of moved us through a discussion of grief that I didn't know really how we were gonna kind of move out of. It's interesting when you talk to people and that stuff comes up and I started feeling mine and she was feeling hers, and you're like, I don't think we're gonna be able to get out of this because we need to let it happen. But it kind of went right into this reason that she. She created this. This wine. And it's touching. So this is me talking to Regina. K. Thank you for coming.

[Regina King]

Thank you for having me.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Painful authenticity. That's what it's all about.

[Regina King]

That's what we're opening up with. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, I don't think I know how to do it any other way, but, you know, I guess it takes a while to get to your authentic being.

[Regina King]

You know what? I think that that's true. And I think some people never quite find that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you put up. I think you put up, like, all these defenses or ways of getting through life, and then you kind of get used to those. And if you never have that moment where you're like, well, this is bullshit, and find the courage to kind of get past it. But that's the hard part, right?

[Regina King]

Harnessing the courage.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Regina King]

That is the hard part.

[Marc Maron]

Because people are shitty, and they're always thinking about them.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

And.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know. I deal with it a lot now, and I'm 61. I just. I think about it more now, like, when I perform.

[Regina King]

Really?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Really?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That's interesting, because you hear so many people as. You know, I would say even. Just even thinking about myself, each decade, I feel like I discover a new version of myself or I have a new. Yeah, I don't really give a fuck, you know, Moment, you know, that helps.

[Marc Maron]

The new version of yourself.

[Regina King]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

As you get older and the zero fucks kind of start to stack up, you realize, like, I really don't give a shit. And that's a powerful place to come from.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

When you really don't give a shit. Cause if you really don't, it's freedom.

[Regina King]

It's freedom. Yeah, it's freedom.

[Marc Maron]

And, I don't know, like, on stage lately, I've just been. I wrote down in my notebook yesterday, I wrote, limit swagger.

[Regina King]

I like that.

[Marc Maron]

Just to see what'll that do. LS, ls. And, you know, just get down to the voice of who you are. Because, like, we live in this world now where nobody shuts up and it's just.

[Regina King]

Yes, the noise.

[Marc Maron]

It's fucking crazy.

[Regina King]

The noise.

[Marc Maron]

It's just like a never ending yammering. Just people gag, gag. Gaga. And there's a frequency to it. It's almost like a mania. And I don't. It just gets to the point where.

[Regina King]

You gotta save your brain 1000%. It's so crazy that you said that, because just yesterday, you know how like your car hooks up to your Bluetooth and if you don't turn it off, just as soon as you get in the car, it automatically starts playing on your Spotify or whatever. And so this one podcast that I was listening to, because there was, and I've never heard of the podcast before, and it popped up on my flipboard and so I was so curious about that topic. So I'm gonna listen to it. And it was interesting, you know, it was only like 24 minutes. Good for me.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Regina King]

And for whatever reason, I get in my car and I was actually listening to it while I was in New York. So I'm back in LA in my car and it had gone to the next episode. And the voices.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

It was really making me feel crazy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because everyone is like, I did radio years ago.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like morning radio. I just realized this recently that in order to get up and do live radio and get, you know, people are going to work. You get into this tone. What's everybody got going? And here we go. This is where we're talking at this level. And you lock into that. And I think that is. I think it happens innately when people get on these mics.

[Regina King]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And they feel like there can't be any pauses, you know, to learn how to pause like this. Well, you gotta, you know, you have quieter podcasts in there, but the general means of talking on these mics is ga, ga, ga, ga. And then on tv, it's all that. No one stops.

[Regina King]

No one stops. And it's like on a frequency that is annoying. And I have to be honest that I kind of discovered that with myself, with talking on the telephone, that I would go into a pitch that was really. I started hearing myself.

[Marc Maron]

Right. For an interview or just in general.

[Regina King]

Just in general. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

It's good.

[Marc Maron]

You still pick up your phone.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

I.

[Regina King]

Still use it for a phone.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

That's good.

[Regina King]

But yeah, like that same moment that you had when you left radio, morning radio, I had that same realization, like maybe about 10 years ago or so where I was like, you know what? This conversation is not the problem. I am the problem. Because my tone is up so high.

[Marc Maron]

And even as an actor, I mean, you know, the power of pauses. But, you know, in regular conversation, sometimes you're just sort of like, let's kid. Let's get this done.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Regina King]

But, you know, that's the funny thing. Another funny thing I realized that's how, you know, with some of those commercials, that they're AI because they. They're no pauses. They just go, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't. I can't even wrap my brain around the AI yet. I don't know what to do with it.

[Regina King]

It's insane. It's here.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I know it's here, but, like, everyone's talking about it, and, like, maybe I'm not knowing when I'm engaging it. Like, I'm not a complete sucker. I do like the AI. When you search for something on the. On the Google and you get all these different options, that seems helpful.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And when I see the. Some of the AI on the reels on the ig, Some of them are funny.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I don't know, you know, what's slipping by me.

[Regina King]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And what's real and what isn't real.

[Regina King]

What isn't.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like there has to come a time where we can make a choice to detach from all of it for periods of time.

[Regina King]

Well, I think for any sanity, you do have to consciously make that decision to detach.

[Marc Maron]

It's hard.

[Regina King]

Yeah, it's really hard.

[Marc Maron]

It's like drugs, man.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, even like, when you're on set, you know, and like, cut. And everyone's just in their chair.

[Regina King]

I've been doing the last two projects that I've been on. I've been leaving my phone in the trailer.

[Marc Maron]

How's that working out?

[Regina King]

It's worked out really great also, because.

[Marc Maron]

What did you do at that time?

[Regina King]

I actually look at the script, but usually I don't bring my script to set. To be quite honest, when I started a show called Southland, Christopher Chulock, who's the producing director there, he made a mandate that no sides were allowed on set, no size. And that was probably the best gift he could have ever given. I feel like all of us that were on that show probably still operate in the same way. So since then, you know, I don't bring. Unless I have a question specifically for the director. And I want to remember my notes that I had written in my script. That's the only time I'll bring my script to set.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Regina King]

But it just. It's almost like the script sometimes can be like, is Linus the one on peanuts with the blanket?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

It's like your binky.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Regina King]

You know what I mean? And so even though you might have prepared, sometimes you just will go up on a line just because you don't have that piece of something right there with you. And I feel like it was really liberating that he had done that. And if I do go up on line and I'm not able to substitute it with something else because I am actually in the scene, I just will old school. Call out lines.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Sure, yeah.

[Regina King]

You know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, so it helped your whole process.

[Regina King]

Helped my whole process.

[Marc Maron]

How many episodes you do with that southwest?

[Regina King]

We did four or five seasons. I want to say we did, like, 50 episodes.

[Marc Maron]

So that's like a full training in. No sides.

[Regina King]

Oh, 1,000%. And whenever we would have guest actors that would come on, they would freak out. And I mean, these are, like, established actors.

[Marc Maron]

Just for the day.

[Regina King]

Just. Just for the episode.

[Marc Maron]

They think you're gonna knock it out. Just have the sides learn.

[Regina King]

And then they get that mandate, and they're like, oh, my God, you guys really. They really enforce this. And we're like, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Cause you're on set and people are like, wait, cut. Can you take the sides out of your pocket? We're seeing the sides.

[Regina King]

We're seeing the sides. All of that, you know, Or Chris also felt like with the sides, people were disrespecting the words. You know, you see them on the ground, people walking on them, using them as coasters.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. You know, just gar.

[Regina King]

Just garbage. Exactly. So I thought it was great, and I still use that to this day.

[Marc Maron]

But it also forces you to prepare in a different way. Like the real way. Like, really know it.

[Regina King]

Really know it. And honestly, it also forced a lot of actors, forced us to have conversations and ask questions before we're actually shooting the scene.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Regina King]

Because that's eating up time in the day.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So we would have, like, incredibly short days because all of the work was already done.

[Marc Maron]

And that's sort of the job. Well, it becomes difficult when you do, like, a whole movie. Like, I watched Shirley, and I mean, so you didn't have your sides at all?

[Regina King]

No, I didn't. What I had was the script supervisor and my dialect coach. And my dialect coach would. Before every scene, we would just go over. Cause sometimes there were, like, three or four really big speeches in Shirley, and, you know, I needed to they needed to become part of me. And so those speeches, I feel like I didn't need to go over those lines as much because I'd already, you know, like, gotta get these speeches right. And it was more just the dialect coach just pointing out places that I may have, you know, dipped with the dialect. But it was for the scenes that are with other actors where I really relied on my dialect coach and script supervisor and luckily had really. I had actor. Actors that are in this for the art form. So we wanted to go through lines. We wanted to. So we did a lot of just running our lines just together.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, that's good.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's a good. It was a good cast.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So awesome.

[Marc Maron]

What is that? What is her dialect exactly. Slightly.

[Regina King]

So, yeah. Shirley has such a unique dialect. So she's Bajan, but she's born in New York, then lived in Barbados for, like.

[Marc Maron]

And her husband's from there. No, Jamaican.

[Regina King]

Her husband's Jamaican, Yeah. And her. I call him her consigliere. Rest in peace, Lance.

[Marc Maron]

Great actor.

[Regina King]

Awesome actor. He was Ghanaian.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So sometimes the three of us. And Michael Cherry, who played Shirley's husband, he is actually Trinidadian. Wow. So we were all working with dialects, and sometimes when all three of us were in a scene together, we really had to work to not start picking up the other dialects.

[Marc Maron]

I have to do that here. Yeah. Like, it happens sometimes. I'll just. I'll become like. Sometimes if I interview an old Jewish comedian, I'll ask my producer, at what point did I turn into an old Jew? When did that happen?

[Regina King]

That's. So you're an actor?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I act.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You're an actor.

[Marc Maron]

I do the thing. I mean, I.

[Regina King]

Because that's what we do. We can't really help, but we're like sponges.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, maybe. Really? Maybe. I don't know if I ever framed it as an actor. I just thought I was needy and believed that other people's lives were infinitely more interesting than mine. But so I just kind of. Kind of glom on, you know, take the ride.

[Regina King]

Are you a people watcher?

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Regina King]

So, yeah. You're. You're. I. Because every actor that I know. We're all people watchers.

[Marc Maron]

I do it a lot more. I'm doing it more again.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you know who Robert Crumb is? The cartoonist?

[Regina King]

No. That name sounds familiar.

[Marc Maron]

He's like an underground cartoonist. He did, like, in the 60s. He did like, Mr. Natural and all that. You'd probably recognize.

[Regina King]

You would recognize the cartoon.

[Marc Maron]

But he has a very Specific way of looking at almost everybody, and it's kind of like. Almost. Just slightly grotesque. And I just watched to doc about him again, and I've been looking at everybody kind of like that, and it humanizes me.

[Regina King]

Slightly grotesque?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, slightly.

[Regina King]

Just even supplanted.

[Marc Maron]

Slightly grotesque. Hold on one second. I don't want to be rude, but. I got it. I just want to say hi to my mother.

[Regina King]

Oh, hi, Mom.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Hold on.

[Marc Maron]

It's hard to get her. Hello.

[Regina King]

Hi.

[Marc Maron]

Well, how you doing?

[Regina King]

Good.

[Marc Maron]

What's up? I'm. I'm interviewing somebody, but I didn't want to miss your call. Are you doing okay? Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Were you watching me in that show?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Did you like it? I loved it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, good.

[Marc Maron]

Look, I'm trying to make plans to get down there, so try to, you know, try to stay here. Okay? All right. But you feel good?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right. I love you. I'll talk to you. I'll call you tomorrow. Okay, babe. Bye.

[Regina King]

Moms are the best.

[Marc Maron]

Well, so.

[Regina King]

And you're such a. Yes, you are truly a comedian. The fact that you would say. So just stay here.

[Marc Maron]

Well, she's down in Florida, and I haven't been able to get down there. And, you know, she is getting older, so there's that thing where whatever my relationship with her is. You, Stuart, you know, you kind of go through life and you're kind of like, yeah, I'll call her later. And I don't know, whatever. And then all of a sudden, you're like, I gotta.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

My sister and I, we're gonna have to have a real deep conversation right now. We go once. She'll go for one week, and I'll go for one week. Our mother's in Ohio, and because my stepdad died a couple years ago, and so she's in this house by herself.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, she's still in her house?

[Regina King]

Still in the house. She doesn't want to move. She doesn't want to move here. That's. Yes. The stairs are what's keeping her heart going.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, good.

[Regina King]

You know, she goes up those stairs faster than. But, you know, she's 81, and so we're gonna have to thank God that I have an amazing. My bonus sister. She's our stepsister, but. So even though her father passed, you know, she still comes and sees my mom every other day.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's the best.

[Regina King]

Yeah, she is absolutely the best. I love you, Stephanie.

[Marc Maron]

That's the best.

[Regina King]

And. But, you know, we're gonna have to do it. Yeah, we're gonna have to come More than, you know, one week out of.

[Marc Maron]

The month and she's still chatty. And with it, she is.

[Regina King]

She's battling the beginning stages of dementia. And I'm finding a lot of my friends were in the same place with their parents. But the thing that's really kind of heartbreaking, watching your parents lose their independence.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Is that with my mother's situation, she's aware of it. It's not like she's not aware of the mental thing. She's fully. She's a teacher.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so she feels the decline and will be in mid conversation and she'll just stop and she'll say, I wanna. I just don't know the words. I want, you know, and so to know that that's happening to you, you know, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. So we just try to remind her just to give herself grace, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's nice. Cause my dad's pretty far gone with it and he doesn't seem to know at all.

[Regina King]

Well, that's, you know, what we commonly recognize, you know, any type of dementia or. I hate the word dementia. I want to just call it old timers.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I say my dad's newly demented because, you know, dementia is sad, but newly demented, it's like, what's this thing?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, there is something to that. I mean, I, He. He still seems to know me. And, you know, his wife is a bit younger than him and she kind of makes him listen to the podcast and stuff. So he knows me. But like, day of stuff, you can dig up some memories and stuff. But like, you ask him if, if he feels well or if he remembers the movie, he doesn't seem to care. I think he's in the ventriloquist dummy stage of dementia where his wife. I'll say, did you see a movie yesterday? He goes, yeah, Rosie, what do we. What was that movie? So he just. She just speaks truth.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And keeps his brain alive.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But the whole. I don't know, both of them are still alive, you know. Did your parents have you young?

[Regina King]

Well, my mother, I don't know. I mean, I feel like she was born in the 40s, so she had me at 26, 27, so that's the age that most people now, people are having children later in life, so I would say no. They. My mother was a normal age and my father was older. My father was 16 years older than my mother.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Wow.

[Regina King]

Yeah, he was.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

My mom was 22, but even 26, if you think about a 26 year old now you're like, what? Yeah, it's crazy.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

I have my son at 25.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like a kid.

[Regina King]

Well, I didn't feel. I mean, you know, I owned a home at that time. I. You know.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

So I. I've been working since I was a child.

[Marc Maron]

I guess you're not really a kid, but, like, I just.

[Regina King]

Well, in some cases, yeah, I will definitely say that. Lucky to have the mom that I have, because I do. I do know even then that I was much more mature than my peers.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And what does she. You don't come from Ohio, do you?

[Regina King]

No, I'm born and bred in la. My parents met here in la.

[Marc Maron]

Okay.

[Regina King]

And had me and my sister.

[Marc Maron]

And what's she doing in Ohio?

[Regina King]

She went back to my mother's from Ohio. So about a little over 30 years ago, when my grandmother was starting to slow down a bit, she moved back to Ohio to be closer to her.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, to her mom.

[Regina King]

Yes.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

But you're not planning to move back to Ohio.

[Regina King]

That's the. We are gonna have to have that conversation.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Regina King]

Well, I mean, I'm not at a place where I'm okay with moving my mother out of a space where she is uncomfortable, you know, out where she's comfortable to a space that she has to get to know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, like I said, she doesn't have. She remembers things. It's not like, where am I? She doesn't have, you know, any of that. She's very much aware. She keeps her calendar, you know, and she just knows where everything is.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And, you know, it's our mom, so we. Right now we're gonna be the ones that have to.

[Marc Maron]

Right. So what would you think about, like, just getting an apartment there or something or.

[Regina King]

Well, her. The house that she's in is big because, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

And it's just her in it. So I think, look, I'm having this conversation with you and I haven't started having it with my sister yet. So the plan to have the conversation with my sister, you can just tell.

[Marc Maron]

Her to listen to this.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Listen to listen to the podcast and what the. That might be her response when I tell her. But my thought is that maybe we would just. How we're alternating weeks now, that maybe we just kind of stretch it out and alternate months, you know, that might work out. Yeah, might.

[Marc Maron]

We'll see. So getting back to Shirley, that movie seemed like it was a movie that I didn't think I'd ever see. And, you know, I don't. My memories of Shirley Chisholm were, you know, I was a kid.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I remember it was a big deal. So really watching your movie was the first full arc of education I got about her.

[Regina King]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

And it's an important story.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

So when did you get hung up on that story?

[Regina King]

My sister and I got hung up on that story about 17 years ago. I mean, because just separately, we both had conversations with people who had never even heard her name.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

And so that was a little mind blowing for us. And then we did a little bit more asking people about, do you know who Shirley Chisholm is? And found that more of our east coast friends knew who she was than west coast friends. And we were like, okay, her story, she's like the godmother of first, you know, and she's the blueprint.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

And so we set out to do this film and it took us this long to get to actually it becoming a reality.

[Marc Maron]

How did you, like, how did the process happen? Because it was your idea. You, like, optioned a book or you bought the story or you had.

[Regina King]

Yeah, actually. So we were with a lot of different teams of writers along the way. Well, not a lot.

[Marc Maron]

Went through a lot of versions.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

Only one version of a script, but two other ideas of what it could look like. And so the first writing team we were with, they were still close to them. Now we still are trying to find that project to do, but what happened is their stars started rising. My stars started rising. And we just. The time we put together a package, we had, you know, locked in on an outline that we felt like was good. And then we just started, you know, life started and going different ways. And then Reyna and I picked it back up again. It may have been.

[Marc Maron]

She your production partner?

[Regina King]

My production partner. My sister Raina is my production partner. Partner. And I can't really remember exactly when, but it was. I was shooting the second third season of American Crime with John Ridley.

[Marc Maron]

With John Ridley.

[Regina King]

And I said, raina, what do you think about John Ridley? You know, why not? You know, he loves history, you know. And she was like, ask him. Ask him now. Ask him why you're on set. And I'm like, okay, so you got the time?

[Marc Maron]

You're not using your phone.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Regina King]

I see what you did there. That's a true comedian. You guys know how to bring nets back. I love it. So asked him, he loved the idea. And so we started getting to work. And in that small amount of time. All of a sudden, an announcement was made that Viola Davis was going to be doing Shirley Chisholm and another project, Another Shirley Chisholm project.

[Marc Maron]

How the fuck does that always happen?

[Regina King]

I don't know. And here's the thing. We had the rights from her sister, the life rights from her sister. So we have been. We had been. Even though that long pause had happened before we approached John there, we still kept continuing the rights with our sister Muriel. And Miriel was like, you know, am I gonna see it one day? And we were like, mur.

[Marc Maron]

We are.

[Regina King]

And she died just as we were starting production. So that was kind of pre production.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So that was sad. But, you know, we kept our word, you know.

[Marc Maron]

Did Vao make hers?

[Regina King]

No. So what happened was when I saw that announcement, we got together, kind of huddled as a team and had talked about, well, we should make an announcement too. And I said, you know what? I love Viola. She's like, amazing. And I think she would be an amazing Shirley Chisholm. So if she's made it there first, then you know what?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Wow.

[Regina King]

Let's just. We'll have to step away. And whatever happened, that that didn't work out. And as soon as it didn't work out, we jumped back in, made an announcement.

[Marc Maron]

Did you talk to her about it?

[Regina King]

I still have not talked to her about it.

[Marc Maron]

I know John. Really? We started doing comedy together.

[Regina King]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy.

[Regina King]

I keep forgetting that that's where John.

[Marc Maron]

You know, for a few years there, and he was good. He was like angry and intense angry and that dry. And I've talked to him. He was on the show years ago, but, yeah, he's really kind of become a lot of things.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Better that he stayed out of comedy.

[Regina King]

1000% better that he stayed out of comedy. I feel like when he first said that, he started in the comedy space with writing as well, and I was like, I just feel like I'd have to think too much about the joke to get the joke.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, he's a very smart guy and he had some very smart jokes. I still remember a couple of his jokes I brought it up about, but. So do you find that. How did people react to the story? Did you get feedback on Shirley?

[Regina King]

I mean, you know, you never know if people are giving you a BS version of what they feel about something, but it felt genuine. Every person that expressed that they did not know. Thank you for letting them know they didn't. We got a lot of that. We got a lot of, you know, that they thought it was just such an amazing cast.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, and we got a lot of people who were, you know, like part of the campaign.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[Regina King]

They were teenagers.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

And who were very thankful for telling Mrs. C's story.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure. That's great. That's great. And the. You didn't want to direct that one?

[Regina King]

No, no. The acting and the embodying her, that was just. That was heavy lifting, you know, I did not want.

[Marc Maron]

Especially with the dialect and everything and.

[Regina King]

Just all of it. She's such a specific character, you know, just from how she walked, the way she spoke, the way she would change the way she'd speak depending on who she was talking to.

[Marc Maron]

And you got to study footage too, I imagine.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's hard. Like, if you're in every scene, how you gonna really direct?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You just see it's all on.

[Regina King]

I mean, and people do it. And I've seen like a great. Like Don Cheadle did an amazing job.

[Marc Maron]

The Miles Davis. Oh, my God. People don't talk about that movie enough.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What a weird fucking movie that is.

[Regina King]

What a weird fucking great movie. You know what I mean? Like that, you know, is stylized because.

[Marc Maron]

It'S like the whole thing's like a hallucination.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And I thought it makes sense to the eyes of mine.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

I thought it was great.

[Regina King]

I thought it was amazing.

[Marc Maron]

It's such a shame, like in this world of media that things just come and go.

[Regina King]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And it becomes hard to find.

[Regina King]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And people work so hard on them.

[Regina King]

I feel like part of it is because there's just so much content.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Just the idea that we call it content now is terrible.

[Regina King]

I know. And how so much content.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Is being made to entertain distracted people.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

People who can't actually put their phone down and watch a film or watch.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they keep telling us that people aren't capable of attention spam, but they're guilty of causing that 1000%. People are capable, but, you know, you've designed the system based on an algorithm that, you know.

[Regina King]

Don't get me started. Don't get me started.

[Marc Maron]

What made you decide that for your film directing debut that that night, Miami was the one to do?

[Regina King]

Well, I had a meeting with my lit agent.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And he was a new lit agent. I had not. I didn't. Jail quite right with the first one that I had.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Regina King]

And so with Harley, we went to lunch and I told him that I wanted to do something that was entertaining, but that was centered, that the Story had a true real life happening as the backdrop.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And that. That was, you know, he asked me the question, what type of films do I want to direct? And I'm like, all types of films. But this is one.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And he sent me three scripts that were. That had. That. That met that note.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And when I read One Night in Miami, I was like, oh, my God.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

God.

[Regina King]

Like, this is my father. This is my son. This is my uncle. Like, I could see all the men that really have made an impact in my life. It felt like if them and their friends were having real heart to heart discussions, debates.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That they would look something like this.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But people with consequence, with consequences, cultural, political, and I mean, like. And that's a real story.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's crazy because not unlike Shirley, which was a different and bigger story, this was sort of a clandestine. You know, no one would know this story necessarily, but somebody. It was a play first.

[Regina King]

It was a play. Kemp Powers had written the play, and it had done really well. I mean, it performed all the way from the West End to here.

[Marc Maron]

So is it based on a real event or is it.

[Regina King]

Yes, that night actually took place with.

[Marc Maron]

It was Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Sam Cooke, Malcolm X.

[Regina King]

Yes, that night actually took place after Muhammad Ali's win. That literally solidified him into being the great that we know him to be. And again, like, those conversations that they were having are conversations that a lot of black men were having. And so what is it for me, like, how powerful for Kemp to be fearless enough to write a story, to put these four giants and say, we're gonna look at them as just regular men?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I guess that was the trick. Yeah. And they're all very different.

[Regina King]

Could not be more different. And that's really, like, if, you know, people always say, well, what is this story saying? What message is that? I think for me is that there's no. Only one right way to do something. You know, it's situational. This move may be the best move. This move may be the best move. And sometimes it's a combination of all of them together. And seeing especially that relationship between Sam Cooke and Malcolm X was especially beautiful to me to be able to consider that there is a such thing. And human beings actually do debate healthily and actually grow from those.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Challenge each other.

[Regina King]

Challenge each other.

[Marc Maron]

Take the hit and change their thoughts and change their minds.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So it was a beautiful thing, that movie.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Thank you.

[Marc Maron]

Do you think, like, do you consider your first big break with Singleton?

[Regina King]

You know, honestly, Mark, I Feel like I have a few big breaks. I feel like, obviously, you know, when I was on the show 227 as a child. That's huge.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And then I feel like then the next one was with John and Boyz n the Hood busting out of being the little girl on a little girl show 227.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, that did no wrong.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And then Jerry Maguire.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, so I felt like those three were just really pivotal moments in my career, that the industry started to see me as truly an actor.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And. But, like, when you direct, I mean, did you, like. I. I assume Singleton was kind of a force as a director.

[Regina King]

Absolutely. And because, like, it was fun.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You were younger and it was exciting.

[Regina King]

Yeah, it was exciting.

[Marc Maron]

Fun cast.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, like, I think I, I. And I've said this before, but I think Baby Boy is a fucking masterpiece.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, like, that movie. I can't believe that movie.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

One of John's abilities is to recognize talent in people that we don't even know that we have.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And identify that. And so that was the case with, you know, while Tyrese may not have been trained and Taraji was more trained, I think he recognized something in both of them that. Let's put these two together.

[Marc Maron]

It was so. You know, it's hilarious.

[Regina King]

Yeah, it's hilarious. And it's heartbreaking. And it's, you know, it's all the things.

[Marc Maron]

Ving Rhames.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

The project that we're developing now.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

At.

[Regina King]

Our company, a character in there. I wanna. The plan is when we get the official green light that I'm calling Ving up, like, it's time for you to reprise that energy that you had there.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. It was something else. Right.

[Regina King]

If he hears this.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

It's an early call out.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And where did you start acting? Did you train here?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Regina King]

Here in la, like in school, or.

[Marc Maron]

Did you just seek it out? Because it's interesting when people grow up in la, because it's all here.

[Regina King]

It's everywhere.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Regina King]

Well, my mother, being a teacher also was always and still does believe that arts. The arts are just as important to exercise your brain and all of that as math, science, and.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's good.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so she always supported anything my sister and I wanted to do. So whether it was tap dancing or playing piano, we just had to stick through it throughout the amount of time we signed up, for sure. And so we started. We were at one of my mom's friend's house and up the street from that friend, Todd Bridges lived.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And his mom, Betty Bridges, was outside roller skating while we were outside roller skating. So, you know, at 8 years old, it's kind of like to her, she. I would never think that now, but she was an old lady to us. And we were like, oh my gosh, she's out here on roller skates. And I guess us being so curious about it and asking her, you know, so it doesn't hurt for you to skate. You know, just asking her all of the dumb kid questions and. Actually, there's no dumb question, only the one that wasn't asked. I don't fully believe that. I was just.

[Marc Maron]

But for the kids that are listening.

[Regina King]

For the kids that are listening.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Be questioned. Ask questions.

[Regina King]

Yeah, ask questions. And so she, I guess, took a liking to us being so, you know, bold to ask a grown up these questions. So she was like, well, where do you guys stay? And we like, we're just visiting our friend. And she was like, well, is your mother here? And we were like, yeah. And so she said, yeah, we didn't really know. So we walk in and we're like, mom, this lady outside wants to see you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And Reina and I are looking at each other and she tells my mom that she has a acting academy and if would we be interested in going? And we were like, oh, my God, yes, please. Cause at that point, my sister and I used to do. Put on plays for our parents and recite Shel Silverstein poems from where the Sidewalk Ends. We were performing. So to hear her say that was just like, yes, absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

And it worked out.

[Regina King]

It worked out. I didn't have to become a dentist.

[Marc Maron]

A dentist. That was the second choice.

[Regina King]

That was the second choice. Yes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But that's crazy.

[Regina King]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I saw like. I mean, you've done so much stuff. I watched the new movie. I did watch that.

[Regina King]

Oh, you got a chance to see Caught Stealing?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I saw it yesterday.

[Regina King]

Oh, sweet. Sweet.

[Marc Maron]

They said they set me up at the AMC in Burbank alone at 2 in the afternoon at the whole theater.

[Regina King]

Did you? No one else?

[Marc Maron]

No one.

[Regina King]

Shut up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it was just me watching it.

[Regina King]

I haven't seen it.

[Marc Maron]

You haven't?

[Regina King]

I have not seen it.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Regina King]

Well, because Darren.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And you know what? I'm not mad at him for this. He does not want to send out any screeners.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's why they had to do that secret screening.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you could have come.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

I mean, here's the thing, all of the times. Because that's what they were doing, what wanted to do, what they did with you, which means that's more expensive because they're buying out the theater for that or the showing.

[Marc Maron]

They're not having regular press screenings.

[Regina King]

Right. And so I. Well, some of the screenings, they're press people there, but they have to work out, you know, when they can come. And so it just hasn't worked out with my schedule to not watch it on the screener. So I'm gonna watch it at the premiere.

[Marc Maron]

It's kind of a great movie in the sense that it's rare that you see a movie where violence isn't necessarily gratuitous. It's just detached from character. Just something you expect. Because all the violence in it is pretty violent.

[Regina King]

Yeah, that's what I keep hearing from people. It's pretty violent.

[Marc Maron]

And. But I think the reason people respond to that is because it's all very character driven and the frame of the movie is fairly real. He went out of his way because I lived in that area where he shot for years.

[Regina King]

Oh, wow. Really?

[Marc Maron]

I lived right on Second street between A and B. So, like, walking by Benny's burritos and Kim's video, I'm like. Because I knew he had rebuilt it, but I literally lived on that block for, like, a couple of years. And he kind of made it back pretty gritty, and it seemed like the right time. And there is something, I tell you once. Liev and Vincent as the Hasidic Jews. It's so hard not to see guys doing those characters and wait for laughs.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it's the opposite.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But there's that one scene with Carol Kane. I guess you haven't seen it yet.

[Regina King]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Regina King]

I can't wait. Because the feedback has been really great. And honestly, when the script came my way first, I said, absolutely, I wanna read it. When I learned it was Darren, I mean, there's like, every actor, there's, you know, you have your list of directors, filmmakers you wanna work with, and I would say everybody. Darren is in their 10.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, I feel like it. You just respect.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Just his storytelling abilities so much. And so then I read the script and I'm like, okay, so Darren Aronofsky's doing this story. Oh, all right.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Cause I'm all about don't be put in a box.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, and it's very clear that, you know, you may not call this a Comedy. But if Darren Aronofsky's gonna do a comedy, this is what the comedy is gonna be like.

[Marc Maron]

He calls it a comedy.

[Regina King]

I don't know that Darren would actually say that it's a comedy, but I know that that is the closest thing to a comedy that Darren would do.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I guess, like, you know, and.

[Regina King]

He has a sense of humor.

[Marc Maron]

Well, yeah. And there are jokes in there, and it is, you know, it's kind of an underdog story, but it is. The characters are pretty thorough. So, like, you know, even if you have to suspend your disbelief around some of the realities of the thing, and it's clearly shot with this sensibility of, like, it's a guy caught in a caper that he didn't expect to be caught in. So that in itself is sort of a comedic premise.

[Regina King]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, the punk rock guy is kind of a clown.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Matt Smith and the Haseeeds are kind of funny, but your character is very intense. And Griffin Dunn as that.

[Regina King]

So awesome.

[Marc Maron]

The old guy, he played that really well.

[Regina King]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Paul.

[Regina King]

Paul's Bar.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. So there's definitely. I guess if I really think about it, it's comedy, but the weight of where all you guys are coming from is heavy, man.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it is a spoilable movie. So we can't really.

[Regina King]

We can't say much.

[Marc Maron]

We can't talk too much. But your character is so great. And just the fact that you're all in, you know, when you see her.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You're like, all right, well, this is.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But we can't. Because the plot twists actually worked.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

You really don't see them coming.

[Regina King]

That's the great thing. And when I read the script.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That's what I told Darren. I said, usually with, you know, with the story, you, like, oh, okay. You know, a certain way. Certain by page 30, you know that this character's gonna do this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. Right.

[Regina King]

And I was like, darren, I did not catch it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So I felt good.

[Marc Maron]

After you read it the first time.

[Regina King]

After I read it the first time, I didn't catch it until, you know, it was revealed. And there's several of those moments.

[Marc Maron]

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so I just felt like if anybody's hands this was gonna be good in, it's in Darren's hands. And then he's telling me at that point, I want to say, only Austin Butler. When there was interest with me, Austin was the only one that was cast.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so I've heard great things about Austin. And I went and met Darren. And I was. You always, like, go into something and hold your breath when it's someone you're meeting, someone you're a fan of. Cause you don't want that to be destroyed. I don't want to be like.

[Marc Maron]

You don't want them to watch Darren Marinofsky movies.

[Regina King]

You know, I didn't want to fight, you know, and he could not have been more clear about the story that he was trying to tell. And it was the story that I read on that page. I felt like here's an opportunity to do something that is a little pulpy, but it puts us in that place of. Even though the film takes place in the 90s, but of those 90s films that we love, they weren't a bunch of green screen. It was like a fight was a real fight. You know, a car crash was a real car crash. Just all of that. All of those die hard type feelings that you would have be suspense at the edge of your seat. What's gonna. That's how the script read.

[Marc Maron]

And so I think it definitely came off that way. But it is interesting that you get invested in these characters and it's all surprising. There is a heavy emotional weight that Austin has to carry.

[Regina King]

And you know what's also funny to me, Mark that so often in movies like that when you have just the character. How did I wind up here? A lot of times those movies annoy me because, like, we know why you ended up here. You know what I mean? You keep doing dumb thing after dumb thing. Whereas with Hank Austin's character, you feel for him because you're like, God, he doesn't deserve that. Come on.

[Marc Maron]

He had no idea. Yeah, it was kind of great. And the film. If Beale street could talk. You know, I interviewed Jenkins Barry on here. Wow, that guy is a fucking genius.

[Regina King]

I was just about to say. I was gonna say it, but I let you finish this into.

[Marc Maron]

I couldn't. You know, I had this experience, you know, watching Underground Railroad, and I was like, why isn't the entire world talking about this?

[Regina King]

I know.

[Marc Maron]

And I just couldn't understand.

[Regina King]

But it's back to what we were talking about just 10 minutes ago.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Where things get lost.

[Regina King]

Things get lost.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But I do think that something like that. And also, you know, there's a certain way that this culture and look, I'm no one to call out any specific institutionalized problems, but how they frame black artists work, it just doesn't. I don't know how you celebrate something as intelligent and elevated as Underground Railroad unless You have all the critics who are like, this is it.

[Regina King]

Right?

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? Or else it's just no one knows what to do with it or where it goes.

[Regina King]

I think, you know, because we are still such a divisive. I'll just say country, so I'm not gonna speak about the rest of the world, but. And we are in an even more divisive place than, say, where we were. That's horrendous, you know, before, from Underground Railroad, I think, because we just cannot look at stories as American stories. If they're predominantly black people in them or predominantly white people in them, they're predominantly Latino or whatever, it's their stories, you know, and we're all guilty of it. You know, we've all bought into this construct. And so it's unfortunate because, like you said, someone like Barry Jenkins, who is so brilliant, and it's not really just so much brilliant, like smart, just his taste is brilliant. When you just look at his filmmaking, like, let's just, like, take the words out of it. But the choices that he's making and why he's making those choices is so fascinating. And when you talk to Barry, the thing that I love most, like, I would have to pull myself off the phone every time I talk to Barry, because you can't help but lean in the way he tells a story, even if it's not a story for television or film, just telling you a story is so engaging and forces you to lean in. And I never felt at any point, working with Barry, that he felt like he was the smartest person in the room or made me feel like he never had to over explain something because. Which I find in some conversations. Because I'm not quite following what you're saying because, you know, you're talking over me. You're talking over me. I never feel that ever when I'm speaking to Barry.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because that movie was beautiful.

[Regina King]

It was a really, really loving set in the sense of family was so much the anchor of the story. And so everyone involved. And, you know, it starts with Barry. It starts at the top. So that energy.

[Marc Maron]

It really does with the director.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

Was within all of us. I mean, we were working and shooting in really small places. Like the family apartment was an actual apartment brownstone that we were in. Whereas normally when especially you're gonna have a scene with eight people in the room, you're gonna build that set. Especially when. But no, Barry was like, I wanted to. If you could cut the screen and smell it, it would smell like new York.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you won the big prize.

[Regina King]

I won the big prize, yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That's what they say.

[Marc Maron]

You've won a lot of prizes.

[Regina King]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I was doing some press for. For Caught Stealing last week, and in one of the interviews, they said, so did you know that that year you were the most awarded actor? You know, and I was like, we're not just talking about black actors. Right. Are we talking about all the actors? And they said, yeah. And I just learned that, like, last week, you know, that was a real interesting ride for me to be in this business. As long as I had been in this business, I had never experienced the campaign run.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, right.

[Regina King]

So I really did. Had no idea.

[Marc Maron]

No idea how it resulted.

[Regina King]

How it resulted, or what you had to do. It's fucking work. And I was shooting Watchmen, so I was working Monday through Friday. I'd get on the plane Friday night to go promote Saturday and Sunday. Screening here, screening there.

[Marc Maron]

Which movie? Beetle.

[Regina King]

To promote Beale Street. Like, for the first part of shooting Watchmen, it was.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure, it was work. It's work. And sometimes you gotta buy them presents.

[Regina King]

Well, when you. With the Golden Globe, you know, it's insane, so. But prior to that, I had won Emmys. Still, that television campaigning, the film, that's just another beast. That is a whole nother beast that had my head spinning. And one time I looked up and I had. Literally, between shooting the show Watchmen and promoting Beale Street, I looked up and I had worked, like, 21 days straight. And that at that point, your body tells you, I'm out.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, it's done.

[Regina King]

I'm done.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But 21's pretty good.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just did, like, a few weeks for, like, I have an HBO special out, and I was in animated movie and, you know, a couple other things. You know, we're ending this show, and after four weeks, I was just like, all right, what's gonna happen is gonna happen.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

I, I, I need that Saturday, or at least just Sunday. I need one day to.

[Marc Maron]

Because there's a repetition to it.

[Regina King]

Yeah. To recharge, to sleep, to not talk.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, and, and you don't realize until you don't have that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

How much needed. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You burn out. Yeah. The repetition is what gets you.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because it's very hard to.

[Regina King]

And then to be interesting.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. The acting really comes into play when you're getting that same question for the 40th time.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And the enthusiasm that people have when they ask that question, like, it's the first time it was asked.

[Marc Maron]

I know. It's so. It's kind of interesting.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's a diplomatic word.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, no, you've done an amazing. And I know you've been very public about your son's passing. And I've talked a bit about grief on here because my partner Lynn, died quickly and tragically. And it seems that what I realized for myself before having known what you'd gone through and was different, is that there is not really a kind of public conversation that makes grief and.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

The.

[Marc Maron]

Experience of it, no matter what the cause of it, kind of just a human, regular thing.

[Regina King]

No, no. And it's interesting because, you know, it's one thing when, you know, it's a parent that's grown old. Something like that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. You're kind of happy. It was like, okay, you've done enough. You did it.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

But the hole that is left.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

When I speak to other people who've shared the same experience that I have, and I'm speaking to them and they're like 20 years from it. It never gets refilled, you know, and you just. It softens at times. I've learned most. The thing that's most clear to me is that that expression, mutually exclusive, I don't really exist in that space. You know, like, literally, sadness and happiness is always working in concert within me all the time. I mean, I can literally always.

[Marc Maron]

Or just after his death.

[Regina King]

After Ian's death. Yeah, after Ian, I say, peaced out.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

I mean, like, I can have a guttural laugh.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And literally, it'll end up being a cry.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Or I can have moments where I'm talking to Ian and I'm like, oh, all right. That was a good one.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And then. And feel the joy that he always gives me. And then at the same time, just miss him so much, you know?

[Marc Maron]

And how did you deal with the, like, the unanswered questions?

[Regina King]

I'm always dealing with them. You know, I don't. I. Sometimes it's just accepting the things that you can't change, you know, like the serenity prayer.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

But I will say that I have such an amazing support team, you know, from my mother to my dear friends and who are all, you know, grieving as well, you know, not the same as me. But I also realize that it's a very unhealthy thing to compare grief.

[Marc Maron]

I used to have Kleenex here.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Hold on.

[Marc Maron]

I used to have them right here.

[Regina King]

You Know what? I have some in my purse. I do. That's another thing that I've learned. I always have that.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Never. I never had tissue in my purse all the time. And.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Now I always do.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I like. The only reason I. I brought it up at all is because of the. It seems that you find it important to have a conversation about it.

[Regina King]

I think there's no other way for. When you're in the public's eye and you have. You don't have the blessing of mourning or grieving with your family.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, there is that moment of, you got 24 hours with the news. You can't stop the police from jumping the story.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so I tried to stay off of the Internet and all of that stuff because you know that someone is gonna say something that is gonna, you know, sin you. And I had a moment. I don't know how I ended up. Something coming across my phone. Somebody was saying that, I guess wants to call themselves a journalist, that they were saying, you know, they were looking at Ian's post and saying that if the family had been paying attention, they would have been able to stop. And that just kills. You just infuriated me, you know that? How dare you? How dare you make assumptions about what's happening in our home, in our lives, and how the amount of humility that people don't have is mind blowing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They're predatory cowards in terms of information.

[Regina King]

So I just started leaning into all of the good energy that was coming towards me and surrounding me and made the decision that my team is like, you're gonna have to say something. You have to. And I'm like, as Ian used to say, with potty training tomorrow, I'll do it. I'll do it soon. And then I knew that I needed.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

To.

[Regina King]

Have that first public conversation with someone I trusted. And so that's how Robin Roberts was that person. I reached out to her and said, you know, can I do this with you?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And she. We had a tearful moment, and she was like, absolutely. And, you know, and she took care of me. She made sure that I didn't have to come into the studio. We went someplace where it's just she and I speaking. And the response to people leaning into. Although it's sad, but that they share something with me. Grief.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Regina King]

You know, we all share a smile. We all share love. And I put that in air quotes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

But we don't. We all. And we all eventually, at some point, are gonna have a relationship with grief, but we don't talk about it.

[Marc Maron]

As you said, people retreat from it.

[Regina King]

They retreat from it. So.

[Marc Maron]

And also I think that what happens is what I found in a different situation is that it's not like a hunger, but it brings people together in a way that is so specific. And in your situation, people who deal with mental illness, people who deal with the kind of loss you had, people who deal with these unanswered questions about the nature of other people or the nature of their pain or the nature of how to frame that, that anytime that a community can come together around something tragic like that, you know that it's a common story.

[Regina King]

Absolutely. I think one of the things that we've always. Until recently, when a commercial or ad or something was talking about depression, it would always look like a person that presents. Very sad.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

And so I am living knowing that that's not what, you know, as I'm, you know, we're going through, you know, Ian's depression.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And this is the first time I'm talking about it. But as we were living was just always so amazing how Ian still would lead with joy, even when, you know, we. And only those close. Ian's father and myself.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, my sister and close friends of Ian's, and not even all of his friends were aware of the depression.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

And it's just such. It's just so irresponsible as human beings in the medical profession to present depression as something that looks like people walking around sad. Cause that's not only how it looks.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because it's a battle.

[Regina King]

It's a battle. Absolutely.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, leading with joy, I mean, that's the fight from within. And then when, you know, when you're sitting by yourself or whatever, you know, it's a constant battle against something that, you know, obviously becomes uncontrollable.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Was there a point where was he trying to do medicine?

[Regina King]

Yes, there was a point. But, you know, there was a period of time of just doing the therapy, doing the. Going to the psychiatrist and not wanting to give in to medication. Medication.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And I think probably a lot of it is seeing how so many people were when they were on it, how just kind of.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And he's a creative guy.

[Regina King]

Creative. And I do know that if he started the medication sooner, there would not have all of the music that he wrote, all of the paintings, that he would not have done them. I don't. I'm not going to be a person to sit here, and I feel like it's a dangerous place to go to. Say if this. If Ian had stayed on medication, that it would have been a different result. I don't believe that. I don't. This is the result. Yeah, I know. Everything that we did, everything that he did, he had stopped smoking stopped, you know, just everything. Working on the depression. And, you know, one point he said, mom, I'm just so tired of talking and seeing that pain in your child that is working to beat depression, you know, whatever beat depression is, you know. You know, it's really, really, really, you know, you feel helpless.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Regina King]

As a parent. Because as a parent, you. You want to be able to provide.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Help.

[Regina King]

Help.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You're trying to, you know, and what's helpful for you is not helpful for the next person, you know, so we're always. When it comes to mental illness, especially, you know, it's. Unfortunately, it is a. Like trying on clothes. Does this fit?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Does this.

[Marc Maron]

You know, looking for something to work.

[Regina King]

Looking for something to work. You know?

[Marc Maron]

And, like, now, do you. Is there some sort of path towards acceptance?

[Regina King]

Yes. But I still, you know, I just miss him so much, and I don't know that, like, there are moments that I feel. Ian.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

But because I miss him so much. His physical presence.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

The.

[Regina King]

You know, when that's the person you talk to every day and. Or the person that you want to hear there. What would your commentary be on this, Ian? I don't have that. It's irreplaceable.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

Do you still talk to him?

[Regina King]

I do, I do, I do, I do.

[Marc Maron]

It's so hard.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So there's no. There's no plan. There's nothing for someone to say. This is what you're supposed to do to accept what fate had in store, you know?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think there are things that say that, but I don't know how good how. Unless you're a deep believer.

[Regina King]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and, you know, a bit.

[Regina King]

Of me, like, I feel like if I didn't have. And maybe this is my own mental shit, that if I didn't have this sadness, then I'd be scared.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Because then that would mean that Ian is not my world.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

You know, then I was not honest to myself or to him.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you said something somewhere that I thought was kind of amazing was just that grief is love that doesn't have anywhere to go.

[Regina King]

Yes. I can't remember who actually said that, but my aunt. And I say my aunt, my play aunt. I've known her. My mother and her have been friends ever since they were in the fourth Grade. She had given her a card that said that. And my mom gave it to me. And that it just really stuck with me because it gave me words to verbally express how I'm feeling.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I think that with your work and with, you know, honoring his memory by, you know, sharing it, it's just. It is like. I think that it can't be. It's.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Talked about enough. That this is a disease, you know.

[Regina King]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

And that it's not something you can will yourself out of.

[Regina King]

Honestly, Mark, I think that's the biggest stigma is that people can't look at mental health as a disease.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Like, you can. If someone has, let's just say, cancer.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And they. Whatever. Drugs or whatever, put them into remission.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

There's. And then you have someone else that has cancer, and they do all the drugs and they don't go into. So what's the difference, you know what I mean? Of someone that's using all of the therapy tools with all of the. All the different ways, all the different therapies. You know, I just. I know that Ian is tired.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, and I know that there is a part of him that looked at people much older than him still fighting that battle and losing it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That hadn't, I'm sure, made an impression on him.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I just feel like, you know, when. And it's just, you know, talking about it. I think, if anything, that Whether it seems impossible to have a sort of deep acceptance of tragedy in your own life, but I do think that making it, you know, demystifying it and accepting the illness, and that this is an illness that happens to a lot of people. And like you said, some people can get through it. Kind of. Some people don't. That's the only thing you can do.

[Regina King]

And honestly, Mark, for one, thank you for making this space safe for me to talk. And this was not what we were having this interview for. But I think a big part of me, just because it's Ian, it's my heart, we're in this cancel culture. And that I have been so thoughtful to be very selective with when I speak, who I'm speaking to, because people are just waiting to cancel somebody or to take what someone says and pick it apart and say what a person really meant.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Regina King]

You know, I mean, you even see. They even look at people's body language and say, this is what this person means when this couple holds each other, like, so, you know, I'm like, don't fuck with Ian.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So that's part of me. The reason why I'm very selective when I'm speaking. Sure, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And also just stay away from that shit.

[Regina King]

Yeah, that part. Yeah, that part.

[Marc Maron]

Because it's just. There's. It's. It's. It's part of that sort of mania that we talked about at the beginning.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

There's just this frenzy.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To. To create garbage at the. At the cost of people's feelings, their hearts, their lives.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Just. And people. Nobody's do it. Who are these fucking people?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

Keyboard gangsters.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You got. I try to stay as far away from.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. I had, you know. You know, after Lynn died, there were monsters, you know, saying, you know, like, Mark killed his girlfriend. You know, like, it's like, who sits there and does that? You know, like diminish. It's inhuman.

[Regina King]

It's inhuman.

[Marc Maron]

But you can't expect humanity from this monster that we carry around with us. Yeah, well, I'm sorry if I. If I got you too down.

[Regina King]

No, no, that's the thing. Like what I said before, like, happiness and sadness are always working. And I really mean it when I say in concert, because if I don't embrace it as in concert.

[Marc Maron]

You know what's weird, I just realized about that is that it does that happiness and sadness in concert. Because once you have a foundation of grief that on some level you understand the battle of, you know, of non clinical sadness. You know what I mean?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I guess that is the human spirit is to keep, you know, that balance. Because what else are you gonna do? Everyone's gonna go through this.

[Regina King]

What else are you gonna do?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

That's when one of my. I was like, mom, I just. Sometimes I just don't know what to do. She said, you do what you're doing. You're here.

[Marc Maron]

I get that so much. Cause, like, I don't think I really look to my parents for advice much after a certain point, because they weren't those kind of parents. And there's some day, and I'm 61. There's some days there's like, would someone please just tell me what to do? Do.

[Regina King]

Just tell me what to do.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that's a hard thing to sit with.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right, well, we could talk about the wine.

[Regina King]

We could.

[Marc Maron]

Would that be a good transition for you to go out on?

[Regina King]

I mean, absolutely. I mean, it's. Ian's name is right there in the middle.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Shit.

[Marc Maron]

How'd you get involved with wine?

[Regina King]

Ian, really?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, he was a wine guy.

[Regina King]

Ian is a. Loves a story and loves and has great taste.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, so when you're an artist like he is, and you discover new things, you wanna. You. You wanna be the one to share it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so he would share wines with me, you know, like, he just. And I think a lot of it came from being a chef.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

You know, he just. The pairing of.

[Marc Maron]

He was a chef.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

Of all of so many things. He's a chef. He's a musician. I mean, he was even in one night in Miami, an audition for the role. But I digress. Oh, so with the wine. Ian introduced me to orange wine about six years ago. I've never had any desire to be in this industry, in the hospitality. Well, no, let me take that back. Cause I did have a restaurant, but never to actually sell a brand. A brand of wine. You know, like, everyone that you speak to that's in the business is always like, if you want to lose money, that's the business you get into. And so in this space of trying to understand what this new relationship is with Ian, you know, I. I was always looking for ways to. When you're talking to your friends and they're talking about what their children are doing now, and I have old stories. How do I create new stories?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

So it was like, we're gonna do an orange wine.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

And so that's kind of how the birth of me and you.

[Marc Maron]

That's what it's called?

[Regina King]

Yes. It's spelled M I, A, N, U. And you pronounce it me and you. And Ian's name is in the middle, because when you put the M and the U on the end.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And is it like small batches or how does it work?

[Regina King]

Small batches?

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

This is self finance. Okay. I'm the vineyard, or I'm procuring the grapes. So, yeah, I have people like, oh, my God, you gonna send me some? I'm like, absolutely not. I. But it is available@me andyouwines.com.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

There you go. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

There's no samples. No samples for the press?

[Regina King]

No, some samples for the press.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Regina King]

But very smart samples.

[Marc Maron]

And how's it landing?

[Regina King]

It's landing very. We're almost sold out, so that's pretty exciting.

[Marc Maron]

And then you do another batch.

[Regina King]

Yes. And now I'm in the business part of it. You know what I'm saying? So it was more just a way to. To put something in a bottle that was the closest for people who did not get the opportunity to be blessed with Ian's presence, to taste something and get an idea of just how whimsical he can be, how tasty he can be, how artistic he can be. The label is very artisanal. It's like a canvas.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Oh, nice.

[Regina King]

And so I'm just doing that more just. This is Ian and I creating this together.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I love it. Yeah.

[Regina King]

And then now I have to think about the business part of it.

[Marc Maron]

We can make it bigger.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Regina King]

How do we sustain, you know, how do we. Am I going to look in a different, you know, looking at a wine.

[Marc Maron]

Or different grapes, you know, is that fun?

[Regina King]

Most part it is. For the most part it is. But it's a little terrifying because I had to enter back into the social media space and so I kind of slowly started doing it, knowing that the wine launch was coming up. And that's.

[Marc Maron]

You can also have someone do that for you. Filter it.

[Regina King]

I'm a controller enthusiast.

[Marc Maron]

I've never heard it put that one.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

I like that.

[Marc Maron]

That almost sounds like something you could put on a business card.

[Regina King]

Regina King, control enthusiast, at your service.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

All right. Well, it's a beautiful thing that you're doing and it's great talking to you.

[Regina King]

It's been great to talk to you, too. What are you going to do next? I understand that I'm big enough to get in here.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, I. I gotta do another season of that show with Owen Wilson and, you know, I just put out a special and I'm, you know, starting to build another bunch of comedy of some kind. I want to try and take it somewhere different.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I feel like I've said all I've got to say on some level, and I want to try to say something different.

[Regina King]

I was about to say, say something different.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

It's not every. You don't feel like you've said everything you have to say. You just want to say something different.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Some part of me thinks I can lighten up a bit.

[Regina King]

Yeah.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

I mean, I don't know. I feel like. And maybe again, it's just me. To me, when the humor is rooted in, like, the real shit.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's better.

[Regina King]

It's funnier.

[Marc Maron]

For sure.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I did a whole. My last special was From Bleak to Dark. There was about a half hour about grief.

[Regina King]

No. Wow. I should check that out.

[Marc Maron]

You should. It's an HBO special and it was about, you know, finding some way of coping and dealing with. With what happened and. And making it a public thing to release some of that because, like, the Sadness is real, is unavoidable. But there even inappropriate jokes around it that you can have with. With yourself that you know that other people who've been through it can. Can share in. But people who haven't are like, oh, shit. Right? But those are. Those are important.

[Supporting Speaker/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Regina King]

Well, highly.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it was great talking to you.

[Regina King]

Thank you. It was great talking to you.

[Marc Maron]

Thanks for doing it. Okay. I know it. It was. It was real. That was. That was real stuff there. You can go see Caught stealing. Tomorrow. It opens everywhere. And check out her new wines at me and you dot com. That's M I A N U dot com. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey, folks. I'm the kind of shopper who knows what I like, especially when it comes to clothes. I don't need to chase trends. I just need to look and feel comfortable. That's why I recommend Quints for all your everyday essentials. Quince has all the things you actually want to wear this summer, like organic silk polos, European linen beach shorts, and comfortable pants that work for whatever you've got going on. I like their linen shirts, so I got some for summer and some for when it gets a little cooler outside. But whatever you get at Quint's is half the cost of similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman, Quint's gives you luxury pieces without the markups. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. Stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from quints. Go to Quince.com WTF for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com WTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com WTF hey, people. On Monday's show, a return guest, Tim Heidecker. He was on an early episode by himself. Then once again with Eric Wareheim. Now we're having one last talk in the garage.

[Tim Heidecker]

I did cry once on stage during the music.

[Marc Maron]

So vulnerable to me.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I just feel like. And I. And I think that. I think that doing the music and sort of moving through that fear, it's gonna help my standup in a way because I'm just tired of the patter.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah. There is something about, like when wondering what. I'm so clear about why I'm doing it for myself. But I don't know. I don't know how close I am to understanding what I'm doing. What if I'M doing it for the right reasons for my audience.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

That's the trick.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But. But how much of that lives in our head anyways? And, you know, like. And in the comments, like, I. I don't know. Like, I. I'd worry about that, too. Like, oh, let's indulge Mark.

[Tim Heidecker]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

With his little music dream.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And certainly growing up, seeing comics that do music, I'm like, oh, fuck, what's he doing? You know, it didn't. Didn't go well for Kenison.

[Tim Heidecker]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know, he was pretty serious about it. Any comic that is music, seriously. I know it's very hard to watch, to frame it correctly, even if they're amazing.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know?

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

And it's a shame because I think we all come from, like, growing up wanting to just do stuff and not thinking about the genre and how it's gonna be classified at Blockbuster Video or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

I guess. But, like, when Eddie Murphy did My Girl, one Wants to Party all the time.

[Tim Heidecker]

Terrible. I think.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I. I would agree with that.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But it's. It all comes down to if you're not doing it to sell records.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you're doing it earnestly to, you know, express yourself.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Then it's legit.

[Tim Heidecker]

I think that's what. Where I'm coming from is. I have things about I want to say that don't belong in my comedy.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I haven't figured out how to write a song yet.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I think I've probably written some, but I have to. To, like, find them. Does that make sense?

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah. I mean, either John Lennon says, like, keep it short and make it rhyme.

[Marc Maron]

Did he?

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, I think so.

[Marc Maron]

But he also has all those chords. You're. You have the beat of chords. Yeah, I don't. I'm still strictly a 1, 4, 5.

[Tim Heidecker]

No, those are good, too.

[Marc Maron]

With an occasional.

[Tim Heidecker]

Those are the catchy ones.

[Marc Maron]

With an occasional two.

[Tim Heidecker]

Too minor.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Too minor.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly. To make it pop.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's Monday, which is also the 16th anniversary of our very first episode. Wow. Wow. How did that happen? Also, a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast, and here's a little Jigsaw Puzzle. Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels Everywhere.