Episode 1676 - Mark Hamill

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1676: Mark Hamill

Release Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Marc Maron
Guest: Mark Hamill

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Episode Overview

Marc Maron welcomes Mark Hamill—actor, voice artist, and cultural icon—to his garage for an in-depth and revealing discussion. While Hamill is forever tied to legendary roles such as Luke Skywalker (Star Wars) and the Joker (Batman: The Animated Series), this episode explores the full arc of Hamill’s life and career, from his early days working in TV, through stage acting and voiceover work, to his current projects adapting Stephen King stories for the screen. The conversation is candid, humorous, nostalgic, and thoughtful, touching on fame, typecasting, creative fulfillment, politics, mentorship, and the persistence of joy in a long creative life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Career, Mentorship, and Breaking Into Acting

• Family Background:
  • Grew up in a large Catholic family as the middle of seven kids; a Navy family, moving frequently, including to Japan.

    “I went to nine different schools in 12 years.” – Mark Hamill (35:23)

• Discovery of Performance:
  • Early fascination with ventriloquism, comic books, and television; realized the power of humor and validation through performance.

    “I could say outrageous things and blame it all on the doll.” (39:34)

• Parental Influence:
  • Father was skeptical (“You can’t make a living with puppets and magic tricks”), but mother was supportive. The family’s military background insulated them from show business connections.
• Mentorship:
  • Drama teacher Mr. Burrell in Japan crucially validated Hamill’s pursuit of acting, predicting his success and inspiring confidence.
  • Recalls giving Mr. Burrell a tribute in a Scooby Doo episode set in Japan (49:17).

Television, Voiceover, and the Road to Star Wars

• Work as a TV Actor:
  • Started as a prolific TV actor in the ‘70s: soaps, guest roles, “The Texas Wheelers,” and various sitcoms and dramas (“General Hospital,” “Canon,” “Room 222”).
• Lessons from Early Roles:
  • Learned quickly the realities of the industry; early lesson with Bill Cosby about the difference between public persona and private behavior (53:11).
• Voiceover Love:
  • Highly values the anonymity, creative range, and camaraderie of the voice acting community.

    “They cast with their ears, not their eyes. They don’t care what you look like.” (23:37)

  • Cherishes his time as the Joker in Batman and other animated roles.

    “That role really changed my career, at least in voiceover… Possibilities. It made me more desirable not on camera, but in voiceover.” (26:32)

Star Wars: Cultural Impact, Typecasting, and Moving Beyond Luke

• Landing Star Wars:
  • Cast after “Texas Wheelers” cancelled—would have missed Star Wars had that show survived.
  • No prep for the explosion of fame; discusses the surreal nature of the casting and early doubts about the tone of Star Wars.
• Cultural Touchstone:
  • Recognizes Star Wars’ lasting imprint, but personally detached (“I saw each of the movies once. I don’t go back and watch them again.”) (83:13)
• Typecasting and Reclaiming Identity:
  • Admits that Luke Skywalker was sometimes an obstacle to pursuing other roles, notably with Milos Forman not considering him for Amadeus due to “no one is still believing that the Luke Skywalker is the Mozart.” (72:51)
  • Proactively sought out theater roles (Elephant Man, Amadeus) to break typecasting, embracing acting challenges and the anonymity of stage work.

Theater: Artistic Fulfillment & Perils of Live Performance

• Major Stage Credits:
  • Detailed stories about auditioning for, and performing in, “Amadeus,” “Elephant Man,” “Room Service,” and the troubled Broadway musical “Harrigan and Hart.”
• The Highs and Lows:
  • Describes the thrill—and terror—of being unprepared on opening night, saved by a co-star’s improvisation (71:45).
  • Shares the agony of being present as a show bombs, versus the safer distance of a flop film:

    “If you’re in a movie that doesn’t hit…it’s in theaters and you’re not there. If you’re in a play, you’re there every night as it dies.” (75:41)

Navigating Fame, Anonymity, and Creative Satisfaction

• Coping with Star Wars Legacy:
  • Eventually found peace with his place in the Star Wars universe, grateful for the closure given in the sequel films.
  • Stresses the importance of finding satisfaction outside the glare of that one role; happy for younger actors to helm new stories.
• Mentoring Young Actors:
  • Warns about the grind and rejection of acting: “If there’s anything else you like as much as this, do that.” (59:31)

Recent Work: Stephen King Adaptations & Creative Renewal

• Collaborations with Mike Flanagan:
  • Praises Flanagan for offering him substantial, non-typecast roles in “The Fall of the House of Usher,” “Life of Chuck,” and “The Long Walk.”
  • Found a new sense of fulfillment working in ensembles; values director-writer loyalty and being at home on set.
  • “The Long Walk” is discussed as a Vietnam metaphor, made newly relevant by contemporary politics (30:07–31:16).

Social Commentary, Politics, and Pop Culture

• Politics:
  • Strong opinions about U.S. politics, decrying Citizens United and the Electoral College (31:14).
  • Dismayed by the American political turn toward authoritarianism and the persistence of climate change denial (45:19, 31:06).
• Pop Culture & Collecting:
  • Reminisces about musical revolutions (Beatles era) and comic book collecting, reflecting on nostalgia and mortality (44:19).
• Letterman & Comedy:
  • Deep admiration for David Letterman—was both a guest and a regular participant on the show, collecting hundreds of hours of Letterman clips (79:21).
• Superhero & Voiceover Films:
  • Enjoys contemporary superhero films but appreciates brevity and efficiency (“get the job done”). Praises James Gunn (“the right guy to have done Superman”; 89:56).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Voice Acting:

  “They cast with their ears, not their eyes. They don’t care what you look like. I’d never get so many of these parts.” – Mark Hamill (23:37)

• On Getting the Joker Role:

  “So I had no performance anxiety whatsoever because I knew I couldn’t get it. So I go in there and, like I say, I just let it rip… the only direction was ‘don’t think Nicholson.’” (25:56)

• On Star Wars:

  “Normally when you do a job, you finish it and you move on. That’s our life as actors ... It’s very difficult for some people to accept that it’s in my past.” – Mark Hamill (26:50)

• On Being Typecast:

  “Milos Foreman had me come in… I really think I could do a good job. He goes, no one is still believing that the Luke Skywalker is the Mozart…” (72:43)

• On the Harsh Reality of Child Actors:

  “So if there’s anything else you like, don’t do this.” (59:31)

• On Theater’s Unique Pain:

  “If you’re in a play or a musical, you’re there every night as it dies.” (75:41)

• On Coming Full Circle:

  "I'm old. I mean, how much more time do I have? ... I did what I set out to do. I'm so lucky to have been able to be paid for what I like doing. But what's the point anymore?" (86:22)

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Highlighted Segments with Timestamps

Mark’s Familial & Military Upbringing: [35:05–37:05]
Discovering a Love for Theater and Validation from Mentors: [47:24–50:17]
Landing the Joker Role & Its Impact: [24:33–26:43]
Discussion of Star Wars Fame & Handling Its Legacy: [26:43–27:39, 82:01–84:05]
Training, Soap Opera Days & Lessons Learned: [51:06–56:48]
Broadway and Typecasting: [69:47–73:13]
Nostalgia and Comic Collecting: [44:19–45:19]
Advice to Aspiring Actors: [59:31]
Politics, Social Commentary: [31:14–34:38, 45:19–46:14]
Admiration for Letterman & Late Night Comedy: [79:17–82:01]
Recent Projects & Reflections on Aging: [86:07–89:29]

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Tone, Style, and Atmosphere

The episode is lively, conversational, and packed with anecdotes. Marc’s signature probing style leads Hamill to both laughter and candid reflection. Hamill is witty, self-effacing, generous with praise for colleagues, and forthright about the challenges and rewards of his career. The mood moves fluidly from comedic (stories about Lee Marvin, ventriloquist dummies, and comic book collecting) to poignant (the pains of theater flops, the disillusionment post-Star Wars, and fears about the world’s future).

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Final Thoughts

This conversation is a master class in creative persistence, humility, and the evolving meaning of fame. For fans of Mark Hamill, acting, or creative journeys, it’s essential listening—a mix of Hollywood history, pop culture analysis, and hard-won life advice.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, and outros have been omitted from this summary for clarity and focus on the central interview content.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Mark Hamill]

Lock the gates.

[Marc Maron]

All right, let's do this.

[Mark Hamill]

How are you?

[Marc Maron]

What the. What the. Buddies. What the fuck? Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Today I talked to Mark Hamill. Mark Hamill, I mean, Luke Skywalker, sure. But that. That was not my primary interest in talking to him. And there's a whole other generation of people that know him as the voice of the Joker from the Batman animated series. But, you know, he's been in hundreds of movies, TV shows, plays video games. He was in the life of Chuck, which I liked earlier this year. Now he's in this new film, the Long Walk, both of which were Stephen King stories. And I was just curious about the arc of him being Mark Hamill. I mean, he's been a public person a long time. And, you know, for some people, a hero. A hero. Luke Skywalker and the Mark Hamill, can you separate them? Are you just watching Luke Skywalker get older, or do you know Mark Hamill? And being a guy that you know, I think I saw the first two or three Star wars, but I don't think I didn't lock in for life. But I was happy to have the conversation with him. It was pretty great. I'm at Largo with the band this Wednesday, September 10th. You can go to wtfpod.com tour for ticket info. And we've been practicing, which is one of the reasons that I. I kind of shifted a lot of the guys I used to play with who were great guys, good players. But I needed to work with a group of people where I could rehearse on a regular basis at least once or twice a week leading into something, so I could feel like I was making some progress, kind of getting better at something. It's not new. I mean, I've been playing guitar on this show and in my life for years. But to play with other people, that was always. The initial reason was I wanted to feel what that felt like. Cause it was A dream of mine that I never pursued. And we did a lot of shows and I always felt like we would just sort of get through the songs. But I really wanted to learn how to build confidence in a creative pursuit that I, I, I didn't do publicly and I got some confidence in doing that. But I was always pretty self effacing when I would perform, you know, or up because I was choking. I, I choke on stage when I have to sing or play guitar, and it's annoying, but I know from doing other creative pursuits that if you keep doing it, and a lot of times with music, people don't necessarily register that you choke or that you're, you're flailing up there because you're protected by the band. But I just wanted to feel relaxed and, and, and feel like I was, you know, doing it with consistency. And that seems to be happening in playing with people and practicing. It's weird because I had a conversation with somebody the other day about, you know, practicing and when you are a creative person that you have to put your hours in, you have to, you know, keep in shape with it, but you really do have to put in. But with standup, I never thought of it as practice. You were just going up there trying to get laughs. And that was the deal. I mean, I've been thinking a lot about the life I used to live and the life that I seem to be entering in a different way, but with similar amounts of time, you know, just how I filled that, you know, what do you do all day? I'll try to talk about that in a minute. But practicing standup was just so immediate. You know, you write the jokes or you write the ideas and then you just find the courage to do them on stage. And eventually the courage, whether it's fake or not, becomes relaxed and you, you can do it and it still gets scary. It's different with music because you really have to practice. You can't practice jokes until you get on stage. And that's where it all comes together. But you can practice guitar and practice songs and figure out how they work together and how you sing them and how you play them and what your lead is and all this stuff. And it's a whole different process. So needless to say, I've been practicing pretty hard because I do not want to feel, I don't want to choke on stage anymore. And there's just nothing I can do about that until it happens, until I feel comfortable. But I'm putting you out there. I'm just putting it out There because a lot of people get discouraged with creative pursuits. Whether you're not getting enough feedback or you think you suck or whatever, there is a zone that you can reach where you feel good about your work. But fuck, that can take a long time. The documentary about me, Are we good? Opens on October 3rd in New York and Los Angeles with special screenings around the country on October 5th and October 8th. You can go to arewegoodmaren.com to see where it's playing and get tickets. I think something about that doc, this is another thing about, you know, for me, it was, you know, a long process of being the subject of a documentary, and I was, you know, very forthcoming. You know, I made the agreement with myself and with the producer and director of the film that, you know, I would show up for it, and it got pretty tedious, but it went on for years. And I don't know if people really realize that there's just so many people involved in these things. I mean, not a documentary is obviously less than a feature film or a TV show. But I believe that I was approached by Julie SEBAUGH, maybe late 2020, early 21. I'm not even sure, because at that point, I was still pretty submerged in grief, and it was still kind of covety.

[Mark Hamill]

And.

[Marc Maron]

They wanted to. Well, she had the idea to do a doc, and initially I was like, I can't. What do you want from me? My manager and everybody was like, what do you need to do it for? You're not de. I don't see it. And then, like, she pulled in Stephen Finarts, who I knew as a director. He directed Bitter Buddha. And I knew Julie because she's been sort of a journalist in the comedy community for. For a while now. I mean, she's written a couple books. The last one was about the Roast Battle. The other one's a collection of her comedy journalism. So I knew her as a journalist, an author, and then they re approached me, her in Fine Arts, who I knew as a director, and I really just didn't see the point of doing this thing. But the truth was, because of the time and because of the idea that we'd explore what I was going through. And you know me, I mean, I do this thing here, and I eventually agreed to it. So this is like three or four plus years of work. And the editors, I mean, it's kind of crazy. I mean, there were three editors. Derek Boonstraw, Natalie Akana, and Jen Harper. And, you know, Fine Arts directing, Julie producing. So there was sort of a passion project In a way for a lot of people. But for me it was just sort of like, ah, fuck, they're coming over with the cameras. So it's kind of amazing when I look at it, that it is. The arc of it is about three years of work and now it's gonna be in movie theaters and we'll see where it ends up on streaming. But it's kind of crazy and I think I mentioned before I'm totally happy with it, even though it makes me uncomfortable. I think it's honest and I think it's a great job with how they edited it and how Steve directed it and how Julie produced it and did some story editing it. Just for me though, I'm just the guy in it, you know, that is my sort of part in this. And the only time that I was cringed out, oddly, you know, given the vulnerability of it or the grief of it or the feelings that I expressed. The only time I was really like fuck was when they showed old standup clips of me from the 80s. It made me very uncomfortable to see little me. It's hard to see little you thinking that they know what they're doing when. When you're in that period where you're just trying to get jokes to work. And also another thing, on Kickstarter, you can still get in on the pre sale for our graphic novel. WTF is a podcast written and illustrated by Box Brown. See, this is another project where I'm not totally passive. Box did some fairly thorough interviews with me and Brendan and other people, but it's another kind of passion project by a profound and professional and inspired graphic artist and author, Box Brown, who is really doing this thing. And he's done other work like this biographical work, but I love that that is. The choice we made was to partner up with Box to have an interesting approach to the history of the show. I went through my time reading graphic novels. It didn't stick. But there was a few years there where I was locked in to graphic novels and a few comic titles. And I'm excited to see what the final product is. You can go to z2Comics.com WTF hey folks, let's talk about the difference between reactive and proactive. Is it better to address something before it becomes a problem or after the problem has already happened? Of course you want to deal with it before. That's being proactive. Which is why we recommend Simplisafe because it's designed to stop break ins on your property before they happen. I have a lot of anxiety and that can make me pretty reactive. But home security is a way to feel less anxious when I'm not around, or even when I am. Because Simplisafe's Active guard Outdoor protection is powered by AI cameras and live monitoring agents to detect suspicious activity around your property. If someone's lurking, agents, talk to them in real time, turn on spotlights, call the police, and more proactively deterring crime before it starts. Hey, you on the porch. What do you got? What's your act? What are you doing there? Let's see it right now. You can get 50% off their new Simplisafe system with professional monitoring and your first month [e-mail] WTF? That's simplisafe.com WTF? For 50% off and your first month free simplisafe.com WTF, there's no safe like Simplisafe. So, you know, as I enter this next phase of my life, I guess we could call it, you know, obviously I'm not retiring, but I am going to have some space. And I have plans to approach my creativity differently. But because we don't have a backlog to sort of serve in terms of interviews, and we're coming in for landing here, there's been a lot fewer talks. So I'm really starting to get a taste of what it's like to not have to record three, four, five interviews a week. And all of a sudden, there's this space and I'm hanging around. You know, I'm cooking stuff, I'm practicing my guitar. I'm rewatching the Sopranos. I'm doing a little standup, but the days are a little more fluid. And there are moments where I'm like, oh, my God, you know, what am I gonna do with the time? What should I be doing? What can I clean up? What should I be writing down? And I realize, like, there's a mild panic to that, but not much of one. But then I realized, like, I spent most of my fucking life like that. It's a very. It's. It's a very interesting thing when you. You spend a life pursuing, you know, a creative goal, because it's different. It's a different thing when you're. You're sort of just getting by in pursuit of something else, as opposed to just getting by in. In. In pursuit of.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Of.

[Marc Maron]

Of getting by. And it. It sort of compounded in a way, because you're broke most of the time. You have this thing hanging over you. There's no guarantees of anything, but you're still willing to sort of make that sacrifice. And I. It's just interesting when I look back on the periods that I was in Boston and then New York and then San Francisco and then Los Angeles and then back to New York. But all that time before I was involved in any other projects other than standup and the random opportunity here and there, it was really just me in the world, in my life, wandering around, you know, trying to create some routine for myself with my notebook, talking to people out in the world, making stops at record stores and guitar shops and bookstores and talking to people or hanging out with other comics occasionally during the day, but really just in service of that notebook and then getting on stage whenever you could, if you could, and manifesting the work. But there were years of that where the days were just these nebulous, free floating, panic ridden, anger ridden, you know, sadness ridden periods of just trying to come up with things that I could do on stage. And I'm back on that level. Obviously my life is completely different and I'm in a different place. But that sort of core darkness of creativity where it's like, how do you fill this darkness? How do you bring something into the world? How do you put it out there? And not having this outlet is gonna be a big change. And sort of reconfiguring my focus on hopefully producing a film and doing some acting and music and obviously comedy. But there is this space there where you're just looking at the sort of nameless abyss and trying to kind of fill that in or pull something out of it that you can put into the world. And that's really the life. I am less stressed on some levels than I was before, but I have new stresses now and you know, I'm up against time, but I don't know if I made it sound like it, but I'm looking forward to it. Come on. And this is right along these lines. We've all done it before, turning to our barista, our hairdresser, or some random stranger in the bathroom for life advice. And lots of times it works. Sometimes you've got to talk to someone, no matter who it is. But when you're looking for help about relationships, anxiety, depression or other clinical issues, regular folks may not have all the right answers. Instead, get guidance from a licensed therapist online with BetterHelp. I talk a lot about my problems right here on these mics and it can be pretty helpful. But this is a one way street and I know the best help comes from a back and forth with a professional. If you're feeling that way. BetterHelp is right at your fingertips. They have therapists who work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences to match you with a therapist. And if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time at no extra cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. WTF? Listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com WTF? That's better. H E L p.com WTF okay, Mark Hamill is who I'm going to be talking to right now. He's in the new movie the Long Walk, which opens in theaters this Friday, September 12th. And this is me talking to him out here in the garage. So I. There's a. I guess there's some things I've seen the two, the. The two most recent movies and, you know, I imagine people talk to you about Star Wars a lot, but I'd like to focus the entire hour on Sam Fuller.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, please do. Listen, I'll tell you something. When they offered me that, I thought.

[Marc Maron]

The big red one.

[Mark Hamill]

The big red one.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I had an offer to go do Equus in San Francisco, and I. I was sort of thinking, why would I want to go? We were shooting in Israel. Recreate the, you know, storming of Normandy beach with all these young Turks that are around my age. But I thought I loved Sam so much, I said I should go. At least go meet him and not just turn it down outright. So my point was, I was gonna go meet him and explain to him why I didn't wanna do it. He was such a dynamo. Little guy.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But he got up and he started, like, acting out the movie. It was firsthand experience. He was just a teenager when he fought World War II. And I'm watching this guy and he says, and then you get out there, actually, it was Kallowitz. But I'm gonna give it to you. Cause you' and he's acting out the movie, and I'm mesmerized. And I'm thinking, holy shit, I've just been drafted. There's no way I can't work with this guy.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Because both he and Lee Marvin had firsthand knowledge. By the time he gets a Saving Private Ryan, there's no one that was actually there.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Mark Hamill]

And both of them were incredible. Lee Marvin was. He surprised me. He Was hip to Saturday Night Live, the National Lampoon. I could make him laugh, which is a real gift. But he. One time we were in bet shan, it was like 111 degrees in the shade, and he got up and told us he started miming when he was in the South Pacific how he got shot in the ass. This guy's like 6:2, and we're all watching him, and he does. He's doing it and he's doing the signals and all this stuff. When he gets shot in the ass, he bolts straight up and then crumples to the ground. Now, I thought, why would he do this for us? But he was amazing. And if he.

[Marc Maron]

He wanted to show you how to take a shot, I guess.

[Mark Hamill]

But he was one of those guys where he would cringe at compliments. Yeah, but he loved insult humor.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Like, shut up, Marvin. What do you know? You turned down Jaws. Which he did. I found out he turned down Robert Shaw's part. Oh, wow. What do you want from me? I thought it was a story about a fucking fish, he said. But he was hilarious.

[Marc Maron]

And that's interesting, though, that, you know, he thrived on getting his balls busted.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, he didn't like that. I'll tell you. One time we were sitting at a little table at an outside cafe, and a tourist walked by and said, oh, Mr. Marvin. You could see him start to freeze up. Because he just tell people, fuck off. You know. But he mistakenly. He was talking about paint your wagon. He said, I like you so much when you're singing I was born under a wandering star. And he. Well, you got that right, pal. Sit down. Because it was a unintended insult. He had the guy sit down and bought him a drink.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

So.

[Marc Maron]

So that's because, like, you know, my old man's like that. You know, if you can get in there and take him down a notch, it humbles them. It humanizes them somehow.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, they can't.

[Marc Maron]

They can't handle the adulation because they don't believe it themselves.

[Mark Hamill]

Maybe. Yeah, I never thought about that.

[Marc Maron]

But because he was such a massive presence. Lee Marvin?

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Hamill]

There was never a badass like him. I mean, in the movies, stood up to Marlon Brando and the Wild One, and yet I'll tell the story to 20, 30 something. Who's Lee Marvin? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's me. You know, the funny thing is all these people that claim they don't know, or sometimes I'll post an episode and they're like, who? I'm like, you research everything else Just use your fucking phone.

[Mark Hamill]

Google, look it up, stupid. Yeah, yeah. Well, it shows you how fleeting fame is because, I mean, when I was a kid, Dirty Dozen, on and on, Ship of Fools. He was just always around.

[Marc Maron]

And I just watched A Dirty Dozen again. It's so good.

[Mark Hamill]

It's a great movie.

[Marc Maron]

That's the one where they're all lunatics, right?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, pretty much. John Cassavetes, Woody Strode.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Telly Savalas plays the southern whack job.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Bronson too, right?

[Mark Hamill]

Charles Bronson, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What a fucking movie.

[Mark Hamill]

It's a who's who of great character actors. Yeah, that's what I love. To me, the workin stiffs are almost more interesting than the stars. Cause the stars always had to deliver something that was expected of them. You see somebody like Martin Balsam and he can play villains. He can play.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, the character actor.

[Mark Hamill]

Wonderful.

[Marc Maron]

Ned Beatty later on.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I mean, you work a lot. I have to assume that you like to do it.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, first of all, I'm 73. I certainly did not have any inclination that I would be working this long. There came a time about, I don't know, nine, ten years ago. I thought, you know, I pretty much. I lost my motivation. You know, I didn't have that burning gut to, oh, get me in a Marvel movie, do this, do that. I thought, you know, I'm happy, I love my dogs, I love my wife. I'm, you know.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

You know, I gotta start spending more time wandering the beach with a metal detector.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Can you do that?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. Well, the thing is, my point is, I didn't say the word resignation. I mean, the only ones that didn't like hearing that was my agent and my wife. Because it's good to have me out of the house.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, sure.

[Mark Hamill]

But I said, look, I'll keep doing animation voiceover. I mean, I love doing that. I mean, in voiceover.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, it's so nice. Right.

[Mark Hamill]

Because they cast with their ears, not their eyes. They don't care what you look like. I'd never get so many of these parts. Just a wide range of character roles in voiceover and I'm content.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I did a voiceover for the bad guys. Right. So that just came out.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And DreamWorks is like eight minutes from here.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, good.

[Marc Maron]

It's easy commute. You know, I don't have to change.

[Mark Hamill]

We have a shared credit. You did three episodes of Metalocalypse.

[Marc Maron]

I did.

[Mark Hamill]

I played Senator Stampington. And you can always get another three, I guess, three roles before they have to pay you a bump.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I did Hammersmith.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The Angry Guy.

[Mark Hamill]

That was a good show. It was bizarre.

[Marc Maron]

That was fun. Brendan's a great guy.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, he really.

[Marc Maron]

And you were the Joker Forever. I was in. I think I played. I was in D.C. super pets.

[Mark Hamill]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

I played Lex Luthor.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So I'm part of that universe.

[Mark Hamill]

Right. Okay, great. But.

[Marc Maron]

But there's all generation of kids who knows you as the Joker from the Batman cartoons.

[Mark Hamill]

And what was interesting about that is the way it came about, you know, when you talk to young actors, I say to them, don't give any indication that you want the role.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I generally don't.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, that's good. That's good. Because when you want something and I'm guilty of it myself, a neediness comes through that puts them off.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So, you know, be aloof as Neil Simon wrote the aloof or the better.

[Marc Maron]

That's the big acting job.

[Mark Hamill]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Pretend like you don't give a shit with the Joker.

[Mark Hamill]

It just so happens, because I would have really wanted that role. But here was the background of that. It came about a month after the fans freaked out that Michael Keaton was going to play Batman. They hadn't seen him. Oh, he's Mr. Mom. He's comedy. He can't play Batman.

[Marc Maron]

I thought he was like the best Batman. He was great.

[Mark Hamill]

But what I'm saying, this all happened before they even started shooting. So in that atmosphere, I went in and I think, wow, if they think the fans freaked out about Mr. Mom being Batman, how are they gonna feel about Luke Skywalker being the Joker? There's no way they can cast me. They just can't. So I had no performance anxiety whatsoever because I knew I couldn't get it. So I go in there and like I say, I just let it rip. There was only one drawing of the Joker. The only direction was don't think Nicholson.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And so I just did it and I had a blast. And I pull out of the parking lot thinking, top that. They're never gonna find a better Joker than that. Of course, the minute they said, you got it, I did a 180. Like, oh, no. I said I wanted to play someone that had never been done before. Whether it's Clayface, Racha, Ghoul. I don't want to play such a high profile, profile character. But to cut to the chase, that role really changed my career, at least in voiceover. And gave you a whole other option. Exactly. Possibilities. Exactly. So, I mean, it made me more desirable not on camera, but in voiceover. And to tell you the truth, I mean, I went to Broadway to try and get character roles. I couldn't get on camera and it was all right under my nose. I thought, why didn't I go directly to voiceover in the first place? It didn't occur to me.

[Marc Maron]

Well, but it's interesting, that idea that Skywalker became an obstacle your entire career on some level.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's one of those things where you just. The interesting thing about that is normally when you do a job, you finish it and you move on. That's our life as actors. You just. You get it done. Put it behind you. Go to the next thing. Put it behind you.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Go to the next thing. Right. It's very difficult for some people to accept that it's in my past. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because it made such an imprint on the culture and on kids and on, you know, everything. It was like it just happened to be the. Just, just in transparency. My knowledge of Star wars drops off around the second or third movie.

[Mark Hamill]

After the second or third movie.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's it for me.

[Mark Hamill]

Listen, people come up to me and say, I'm really sorry. I've never seen Star Wars. Like I care. That's just.

[Marc Maron]

No, I know, I, you know, I know your place in the world, but like, I'm not a huge sci fi guy.

[Mark Hamill]

It doesn't matter. But getting back to what the Long Walk and the Life of Chuck one guy really changed my career. That's Mike Flanagan. Now, I was a fan of his. I saw the Haunting of Hill House. It was like an eight hour miniseries. The Haunting of Bly Manor. And then I watched Midnight Mass and he has these big ensemble casts and he contacted me. He came over to the house with Trevor Macy, the producer, and asked me to be in the Fall of the House of Usher. So I read this thing and it's just bonkers. It's like way over the top horror to the point where it's almost self parody. And I told him that. I said, I hope you don't mind, but I mean, some of this is just so bizarre. It's just funny. He goes, oh, no, please.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Anyway, so I played this small part of the family lawyer, this sociopathic.

[Marc Maron]

In the fall of the House of Usher.

[Mark Hamill]

In the fall of the House of Usher, I'm the lawyer to this horribly evil family. One thing that's clever about Mike is he makes it relatable in the sense that the Usher family is a. They're all terrible.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

All the kids, they're Just awful. Anyway, they've made billions of dollars selling a drug, ligadone, which is another Edgar Allan Poe reference that kills people and is highly addictive. You go, oh, ushers. Ligadone, Sackler Family, oxycontin. So there's a foundation that you can relate to. Sure.

[Marc Maron]

And it's in the present.

[Mark Hamill]

Yes. So anyway, what I thought I said, this is a role that would have been commonplace if it were voiceover. This is the first time they've given me a character part on camera. And it's so great because, like I say, there's this massive cast. The weight isn't on your shoulders if you were, like, the main lead. Anyway, Mike Flanagan. Mike Flanagan. And I'm telling you. And then he asked me to do the Life of Chuck.

[Marc Maron]

I thought that was a sweet movie somehow.

[Mark Hamill]

The Life of Chuck.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, yeah. What's bizarre to me and amazing is that Stephen King wrote both of these.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The Long Walk was under a pseudonym, right?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. What's his name?

[Marc Maron]

Richard Bachman.

[Mark Hamill]

Richard Bachman, Exactly. He was 19, Mark, when he wrote this thing. Well, Let me ask you 19.

[Marc Maron]

I'll tell you one thing about the movie, because I saw it yesterday.

[Mark Hamill]

What, Long Walk?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The one thing I thought was, like, this is clearly was written as a Vietnam analogy. It was clearly a metaphor for that war to me. And I walked out thinking, like, if they made this in 70 on a small budget, it would have been fucking mind blowing.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But, you know, the updating of it worked. All the performances, I think were great.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, those young guys, they're the heart and the soul of the movie. What's interesting is I do this and I'm thinking, well, it's this dystopian retro future, and, you know, you have to make the leap of faith to buy the premise, but once you do, it's really about the guy's relationships.

[Marc Maron]

Then you see foxhole friendships almost.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But then you see masked thugs dragging people out of cars, breaking windows. All this stuff that was all after the movie when ICE came to Los Angeles and your mouth's hanging open. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We're now relevant in a way we weren't before. Sure. It's hard to believe what's going on.

[Marc Maron]

Was there a sense of, oh, yeah, with the big shift towards authoritarianism, it's happening. I don't know why people don't just.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Call it what it is.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, the thing is, it was bad enough that. By the way, I mean, one of my two big things I have about politics. Get Rid of Citizens United. Get rid of the Electoral College. Gore beat W By half a million votes in popular votes. Hillary beat him by nearly 3 million. Dead bang. Whoever gets the most votes wins. There's no modern country that has an Electoral College.

[Marc Maron]

And then now it's being. Now he's gonna rig it.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But that aside, were you aware, you know, going into the long walk that it was a Vietnam metaphor?

[Mark Hamill]

I thought so, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Is there any truth, to your knowledge, that Star wars was also in response to Vietnam?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Georgia's very political. I mean, there's no denying it. I mean, it's dressed up as a children's fairy tale, but they. The evil empire and the rebels. I mean, he came out of, you know, he's not that much older than I am. I think he's maybe. I was 24 and he was 31.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So seven years older than me. Harrison's actually older than George.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But I didn't read and go, oh, this is a Vietnam. Once I saw the finished film and I saw discussions of it, I said, oh, okay, I'm getting more and more. I mean, because you could take it on any level you want, which is why it's great for children, but it also engages older people.

[Marc Maron]

Who wrote that first one? Just George, or was Gasden on that?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, George. No, George wrote it, but he was assisted by Willard Hike. Gloria and Willard Hike, who had written American Graffiti. They get uncredited. He'll pay them, but he won't credit them. But he. They. They were the ones that. That came in and did the snappy dialogue between the princess and Hansel on the back and forth and made it, you know, much.

[Marc Maron]

And they were on set.

[Mark Hamill]

Humorous. No, they weren't on set. Okay, but you still talk to George. Yeah, I have. I went to his birthday, his 80th birthday a while back, and it was odd because when we were doing one of the sequels was the first time Hillary was running against him. And English people on the crew would come up to me and say, mark, why do Americans love Donald Trump so much? And I'm going, I don't know a single person that could stomach him. I used to think when I was living in New York doing theater, he was amusing to me. What's not funny about a blowhard egomaniac with zero self awareness?

[Marc Maron]

Buffoon.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. And it's so needy to be spotted in Lanes. I mean, he has that actor's mentality of, you know, give me attention.

[Marc Maron]

Where's my camera?

[Mark Hamill]

He was a buffoon. But what turned Me on a Dime was in 2011 when he went on the birther thing, which was interesting because that was his first foray into politics, and he got a great response from that. Ooh, I'm appealing to the racists and the conspiracy theorists. But it's one thing for him to have sneaked by the first time when he got reelected. That's on us. That's where I'm really ashamed of. Because I always thought there are more decent Americans, honest Americans, than there are others.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And I proved I was wrong. I'm in the minority in my own country.

[Marc Maron]

Don't underestimate the power of handheld propaganda to break people's brains.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, I guess.

[Marc Maron]

But New York, I mean, like, another thing that I don't know, that I fully realize is that just how long you'd been sort of kicking around a bit doing television before Star Wars.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah. The first job I got was the summer of 1970, and I was a fairly prolific television actor.

[Marc Maron]

Where was that?

[Mark Hamill]

You were out here.

[Marc Maron]

Where'd you grow up?

[Mark Hamill]

My dad was in the Navy.

[Marc Maron]

Was he. Was he like, the major?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, he wasn't authoritarian. He wasn't quite that extreme. I'm the middle of seven children.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Hamill]

Roman Catholic family. Wow. One older brother, two older sisters, two younger sisters and a younger brother.

[Marc Maron]

You know all of them?

[Mark Hamill]

Yes. And we moved. I went to nine different schools in 12 years.

[Marc Maron]

That's crazy.

[Mark Hamill]

So we're in always coast to coast.

[Marc Maron]

And living on base or off base?

[Mark Hamill]

No, off base until we got transferred. I was in Virginia. We got transferred to Japan.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I went to Yokohama High School. In that case, I lived on the Marine base and. So just walk into the teen club or to the px. I walked across the parking lot of the Marine base where the major types were putting the troops through their paces in sweltering heat. And I saw. I mean, I told Francis Lawrence, the director. I know this guy. I've seen him.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I mean, I'll never forget. I saw a soldier throw up and. And be forced to eat it.

[Marc Maron]

Come on.

[Mark Hamill]

With a spoon, by a major type. Eat it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And he was not kidding. And the guy. I had to turn my eyes away. I mean, but it rattled me because I was like, 16 years old. So anyway, I moved from Yokohama, Japan, when I graduated.

[Marc Maron]

Were you able to take in or be affected by the culture of these places of Japan?

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, I'm sure. Absolutely. And opened my eyes. I mean, I love Japan. You can get anywhere in Japan. Like 100 yen, 25 cents. You get on the, on the train and you're in Tokyo in 45 minutes. Yeah, so. And because that was another bummer. I was 16 and a half, about ready to get my learner's permit and then we get transferred.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's so funny because at that age you can't appreciate the global adventure because like I can almost drive.

[Mark Hamill]

Yes, exactly. That's my worldview. But no. So I come, come to, to Los Angeles thinking what am I going to do?

[Marc Maron]

The family moved.

[Mark Hamill]

No, that's when I, I graduated. So they, they, they got their next assignment, which was in Tracy, California. But I came to Los Angeles for my brother's wedding. But I had to get into school or I would have been drafted. I had no money, but since I'm a California resident, I was able to get an LACC$8 in a pen. And you're in.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And what was interesting that when my brother had one of his best friend was Michael Franks, who's a recording artist and sort of a niche.

[Marc Maron]

I know that name.

[Mark Hamill]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Did any of your siblings serve?

[Mark Hamill]

No.

[Marc Maron]

So you grew up in the military?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, my brother became a doctor. How do you top that?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So was your dad okay with your pursuit?

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, no, of course not. Are you out of your mind? You know he was. I'll tell you how long it lasted. I got my first job in 1970 and I was nine months on a soap. I did, I don't know, 15 TV movies. I had a short lived series that was critically acclaimed but got canceled. The Texas Wheelers for Mary Tyler Moore and then guest starred in all this stuff. He visited me in like 1975 or six, a year before I did Star wars and I took him to see the Paper Chase and I thought, well, this will be impressive because it's on the lot at 20th Century Fox.

[Marc Maron]

Timothy Bottoms and John Houseman.

[Mark Hamill]

Yes, exactly. But here's the key thing. As we were driving back, I said, what'd you think of the movie, dad? He goes, well, I thought it was remarkable depiction of young law students. And you know, Mark, if you ever thought of going back to law school, I would match you dollar for dollar. And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? I could level this guy by just telling him how much I made, which I know was triple what he made. And it would have felt good in the moment. I'm glad I didn't do it because I just swallowed my pride and I said, okay dad.

[Marc Maron]

Well that's interesting because like usually that sort of adversarial dynamic between a rigid dad. For whatever reason, for whatever their principles are. And a creative kid is. I have found talking to people, a lot of it's rooted at. Of fear for you probably, and your security.

[Mark Hamill]

That's what he was saying. He said, you can't make a living with puppets and magic tricks. Cause that's what I had, a Jerry Mahoney dummy. That was very empowering. I hosted an assembly and I realized how important.

[Marc Maron]

When you were a kid?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, when I was in sixth grade.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you had the venturocus dummies.

[Mark Hamill]

I had the dummy. And I realized I could say outrageous things and blame it all on the doll.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Mark Hamill]

And. And the laughter was like an endorphin. I said, you must have had a moment where you got a laugh and thought, I want this in life. This is what I want.

[Marc Maron]

I guess.

[Mark Hamill]

So I don't have the talent to be a stand up comedian, but I. I just knew I'm doing this, I don't care how.

[Marc Maron]

So it was one of those store bought ventriloquist dummies.

[Mark Hamill]

Exactly, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

What was it? Jerry Mahoney wasn't Edgar Bergen though.

[Mark Hamill]

He was. No, that was Paul Winchell.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Paul Winchell.

[Mark Hamill]

But I also love Sherry Lewis. I would sit in front of the mirror practicing all day, not knowing. I lift for hours and hours. And they'd see this and say, there's something wrong with him. And I love television so much. I love television. I have to credit Walt Disney because the first time I ever saw how movies were made, I mean, he'd say, the Making of Darby o' Gill and the Little People or whatever they show the camera crew and wardrobe and hair and you go, oh my God. I mean, this is like an education. It's the whole world.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

No other person was showing you how you do this. And I'm telling you, whatever it was, I thought, I mean, I didn't think, oh, I'm gonna be an actor. But I like. I'd see King Kong on tv and I think, oh my God, how do they make the dinosaurs move? And I cried my eyes out when Kong dies. So I go to the library. I'm looking up on microfiche reviews from 1933. Willis O', Brien special effects Marcel Delgado MODEL MAKER Because I'm thinking, I want to go to a job where you bring dinosaurs to life.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I mean, when I realized how it was done frame by frame, I thought, oh, I don't know if I have the skill, but I'm not a bad cook. I could cater. Yeah, yeah, sure. I just want to be around near the show. I don't have to be in the show. I want to be near the show. And so I had that determination very early on. I couldn't admit it because I had all the brothers and sisters that ridiculed me to no end about being in the business. But you're right, they were concerned that it was an unrealistic pursuit. Yeah. Like, we don't know anybody in shows. Not only that, we don't know anybody who knows anybody in show business.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

It's that simple.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you're kind of insulated in the military, of course.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So how do you break out? So outside of the. The Jerry Mahoney moment, when do you start doing stuff? And were you. Were you interested, like the Dinosaurs, Kong? Were you always interested in fantasy science fiction?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, I loved all that stuff. All of it.

[Marc Maron]

Comic books.

[Mark Hamill]

But I mean, we weren't allowed to have comic books unless they were Classics Illustrated. But then you'd make buddies in. In the neighbor who. Who were allowed to have comic books and go to their house and sit.

[Marc Maron]

Well, what was the. What was the radical comic at that time?

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, well, probably Mad.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Mad Magazine. And then I discovered there were Mad comics is. Like I said, this guy had a father who also collected, and he had all of his. That's the first time we realized there was Mad comics.

[Marc Maron]

Where was that?

[Mark Hamill]

Although they did paperback books, black and white reprints of the.

[Marc Maron]

Well, they started with the small comic books and then moved to the magazine format. So the early, Early Mads.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

And so the dad had. They always need that guy. Right, The. The friend who's got the big brother or.

[Mark Hamill]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Or the, the dad.

[Mark Hamill]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

What year was that, though? How old were you then?

[Mark Hamill]

Probably. It was probably 60, 61. Because by, you know, when the Beatles came out, everything changed.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Where you go. I'm not spending any money on comic books anymore. Got to save up money for the records.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And you're a little too young. You were born in 63.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So. Yeah. You were born in, what, 51. So the, the. The Beatles generation, I'm telling you, it just rocked our world. I mean, they talk about going from black and white into color. The day after they were on the Ed Sullivan show, there was nobody in school who had not seen him. And then A Hard Day's Night. We couldn't believe it. How funny they were. And it seemed like a documentary. You know, those. We'd never heard those accents before. And Wayne was so acerbic. And all of it, it was just perfect. And then the whole British Invasion, the Stones, the Kinks, the who, it just was never ending. And it was fantastic. It was a great time to be a teenager. And then, you know, like, I'm looking at my younger brother, the biggest group when he was in high school, the Village People. I thought, how sad. Cause disco was just not my thing.

[Marc Maron]

Cause when I was in high school, you know, disco kind of died, right? And I saw what happened after and you know, but you saw the great stuff and then you saw it turn to garbage. Yeah, but you can't find redeeming things in disco. Obviously there's some great performers.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh yeah, of course, of course. No, they're skilled performers. It's just not my music.

[Marc Maron]

Once disco happens, you go back to comic books and fantasy.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, for a while I was collecting comics. I mean, you know, the thing is, they remind you of your own mortality. Oh yeah, you think, I just spent $1300 on a 10 set comic book. And I'm 57. How long am I to be able to enjoy this? I mean, just, you know, they get to the point where they're so valuable, your accountant is saying you better get them into a storage box in the bank. Like, when are you gonna go to the bank and visit comic books?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, well, what kind of comic book and what are we going for? Cause I do that with records a bit. Yeah, but the bigger question is like now, how long am I gonna live to enjoy this book? That's in a safe. But like, what are we reaching back for? Who knows, what are we trying to connect with? Cause I, I go to the record store and I'm going through the bins and I look over to the side of me and on both sides of me there's guys that look roughly like me within a five year age range. I'm like, what are we looking for, fellas? Whatever it is, it's gone.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, well, you think about that. I mean, all these extreme weather events and you go, I remember when I was like a teenager, late teens, when scientists were warning about the dangers of climate change, of CO2 and fossil fuels and all that. And they were warning. So this would have been late 60s, early 70s warning. If we don't do something right now, it will be unsustainable in the future. Fast forward to an administration that calls climate change not just a hoax, a Chinese hoax. Sure, you get that racist jab in there? Let's play it on the Chinese.

[Marc Maron]

Well, maybe everyone will die at the same time and no one will miss anything.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, who knows? I mean, what was that James Cameron article I was reading today where he's talking about if artificial intelligence ever gets mad or involved with the nuclear code, it could be all over? Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You can't rely on it too much. And now we're all passively adapting to it. But that aside. So when do you start acting? When is the training?

[Mark Hamill]

What happens? Well, like in school, I'd always try out for stuff, and sometimes I'd get a part. But if I didn't get a part, fine, I'll be on the crew. I'll do props. I'll work in the lighting booth.

[Marc Maron]

You just love it.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. Like I say, I have to be near the show. And it got to the point where I'd done so much that by the time I got to high school, it was like school. These six hours are just what I have to get through to get why I'm really here is rehearsal.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Mark Hamill]

That's when I was in my element.

[Marc Maron]

What, you like doing musicals and stuff?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, whatever, you know, I mean. And also, my father was. Took business trips when he lived into Virginia. Twice I got to go to New York and see Broadway shows. He wouldn't go with me. I'd get a single and go see the Odd Couple, the Mad Show. And one time, I remember, I thought, well, I don't like musicals. I've seen him on tv. Tv, I love you. So I'd seen operettas. I had never seen, like a funny musical. Later, I discover how to succeed in business.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Or Damn Yankees. But at that time, I just was. Had an aversion to musicals. But I saw an ad and I thought, well, wait a second. It says book by Neil Simon. So it's a musical, but it's got to be funny.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So I'll take a chance on it. I went to see Sweet Charity.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I'd never seen human bodies move that way. It was sexier than hell. Hilarious. Gwen Verdon. You just wanted to hug her. I mean, that changed my mind. And then I started, you know, I mean, we didn't have Google, but, you know, like I say, you go down to the library and look up microfiche in the New York Times. And that's when I discovered a whole world of shows that I'd never thought of before now. Then we get transferred to Japan. And my drama teacher, I Bring him up Mr. Burrell. John Burrell.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But he was sort of stuck in the 40s. What he liked, he planned for the big play in my senior year. Timeout for Ginger and I read it and I said, yeah, okay. But I said, you gotta read this. And I gave him a copy of the Odd Couple. I said, it's the funniest thing I'd ever seen in my life. He wound up doing it. Now, I wanted to play Oscar, but he said, mark, you gotta play Felix because Oscar gets laughs because of his lines. You just say him deadpan. What do you got to eat? I got brown sandwiches and green sandwiches. What's the green? It's either very new cheese or very old meat. Just deadpan. And we can get somebody from, you know. Cause a lot of guys wouldn't go out for drama. It was too fae or not masculine. But I would go to guys like on the football team and say, hey, you gotta play this guy. You gotta play Murray in the Odd Couple. You just play poker. And it's funnier. Just read it. So we. He let me do the Odd Couple. I had to play Felix. But like I say, not only was the big hit, but they liked it so much that we toured other bases. It must have been so odd to see a bunch of 16 year old boys playing middle aged divorced men. But like I say, the material was so strong. And he. The reason I bring him up is he's the first person that gave me validation with. As we're getting near graduation, he sat me down, he said, you know something? I think if you apply yourself, there's a very good chance you could be successful in show business. Nobody had ever done that before. Probably wasn't their place. Your drama teacher's gonna give you life advice. But he knew how much I wanted it. And it really made an impression on me to the point where when and Hanna Barbera wanted Scooby Doo to meet Mark Hamill, they said it in Japan. And I had a meeting with the writers where I gave them all this information. They said, well, we won't. We can acknowledge Mr. Burrell, but we'll spell it like Milton Burrell, because we don't know if he has any relatives that would object or whatever like that. And he passed away by that point, but.

[Marc Maron]

So you gave him a little tribute.

[Mark Hamill]

Yes, we did.

[Marc Maron]

And so was that the only training you had?

[Mark Hamill]

No. Then I went to LACC and I majored in drama. I kind of wish I'd majored in film, but what's weird. And I've gone back to speak there and I brought it up, I go, why is the drama department completely divorced from the film department? They should be working together, you know. But the faculty of the Drama department, they were all theater, theater, theater. Television is rubbish. Movies.

[Marc Maron]

Sure. That's the way I think it was sort of like. Like this is where you learn how to do theater.

[Mark Hamill]

Yes. And it's too bad because, you know, the business has changed so much. But even then we could have been in their student films and all that. But, you know, if you, they found out you were acting in a student film, it was a black mark.

[Marc Maron]

Really?

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah. They not only discourage you, they didn't even want you to associate with anybody in the film department. But anyway, so I do four semesters and by that time the draft is over. I got. So I land in the summer 69. By the summer of 1970, I, I get, I. I got an agent.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Michael Franks had written a musical. And the first summer I was there, he had seen me as a kid doing Richard Nixon impressions and Jerry Mahoney and all that.

[Marc Maron]

He grew up with that.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, I got a part for you. I didn't even have to audition. So we do this talking about how, how luck is so much a part of what happens to you. There's a guy whose daughter was in the cast who worked for Neil diamond. So he was in show business. He said to me, if you're serious about that, I can take you around and you can meet. And through that I got an agent. I would go into an office, I'd do a comedy scene, and I do Subject with Roses as my drama. Do Snoopy.

[Marc Maron]

And your comedy, you're like 20.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, summer 1970s. Yeah, I'm 51. I was.

[Marc Maron]

No, I was 19 or 18.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Because by the time I didn't have to worry about the draft anymore, then I could go out for all this stuff. I mean, it was really hard. My agents were saying, what do you mean? You gotta go out for this. It's a big part. I said, I can't. If I get dropped from school, I'll get drafted anyway. That goes away. And I probably, I sort of regret now not transferring to a four year college, but I was getting work, so you can't.

[Marc Maron]

And you're doing the sitcoms like the Partridge Family.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, and the Bill Cosby Show. Now there was a example, the old.

[Marc Maron]

Bill, not the newer one. Like what?

[Mark Hamill]

No, no, not the Cosby show was called the Bill Cosby Show. He played a high school athletic director. And this gives you an example of learning early that the real person isn't always like their public Persona. Because I idolized Bill Cosby. I had. Why is there air? I had his comedy album Eight comedy albums.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, a lot of them.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, weird. Harold. I just thought he was gonna be so much fun. First of all, we rehearse without him with the stand in. Then when they were ready to shoot, he comes on set with a big cigar, very imperious and a minder who takes the cigar out of his mouth. He didn't say hello, Howard. He only spoke to us in the lines of the scene.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And he did the scene. And in the scene, he's amiable and nice.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And then cut. And he's back. The cigar walks off, doesn't say goodbye. Then my brothers and sisters, they knew he was one of Miles. What was he like? And I was so wanting to perpetuate the. Oh, he was great. I didn't tell him what I just told you because I didn't want to believe it myself. But it was an early lesson.

[Marc Maron]

It turns out he was really bad.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, he didn't offer me any drinks, but, yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But, yeah, it turns out that's a.

[Marc Maron]

Big moment, you know, for a young actor to.

[Mark Hamill]

It's eye opening. You go, wow, okay, he's different. Same thing with a soap. I said, I don't want to do a soap opera. The only time I've ever watched them is openly mock them. Then you go and you realize, first of all, the people are great. And you learn so much. You learn how to hit your mark without looking down, how to find your light, how to get over your fear of the teleprompter. And during dress rehearsal, all the actors in the show are openly mocking it. Does Peggy know that?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I mean, way over the top. They're having fun. And then on camera, it's, Does Peggy know that? They're professionals. But that was nine months of. I was two shows a week, General Hospital. I wasn't a major character. And by the way, when I auditioned, we were playing brother and sister. I went in with the girl I was living with I met in drama school. I said, let's pretend like we don't know each other. How do you do? How do you do? And they thought after the scene, gee, you kids have a tremendous amount of rapport. We're like, well, we're just good actors now. It kind of backfired because when they realized they were sending scripts to the same address.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

The producer had us in and said, you got to watch this, because fans are going to look at it like incest, and we can't have that. I'll have to fire you. So don't show up holding hands or Doing anything in the. In the soap magazines and stuff. But it was great training, and it was a good place to learn how to. I mean, a lot of these kids come right out of high school and get a big hit TV show, so they're making their mistakes in primetime in front of millions of viewers. That was a place to learn.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's great. But you did, like. I get kind of fascinated with these because I remember them from when I was a kid. And you were already acting in them, but, like, canon. Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

With William Conrad, you know what shocked him was I came in and I said, what was it like narrating Rocky and Bullwinkle? And he was like, how did you know that? But I was one of those people. I was one of those people before Google. I was so. I loved Rocky and Bullwinkle, all the cartoons, mostly Looney Tunes and Jay Ward. But you couldn't just find.

[Marc Maron]

You know, you had to go to the library. You did the thing.

[Mark Hamill]

Not only the library, you go to the record store, to the children's record section, and you get a Rocky and Bullwinkle album. And I would write down Dawes Butler.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

June Foray, Don Messick, people I later work with. And they were like idols of mine.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Mark Hamill]

And I was always serious about it. I mean, you have fun. I remember I was having so much fun on the sofa. I remember one actor took me aside. He goes, you know, hamill, enjoy it now, because when you turn 30, you're gonna look like an old kid.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And I thought about that. I sort of brushed it off later. I thought, I wonder if he's right. I mean, you have no control. But maybe I can hit 30 and I'll just look like a teenage kid with crow's feet or whatever. But that's what I'm saying. You can't predict the longevity of your career.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's lucky you avoided that. But you did. Like Night Gallery. Who was that, Gavin? What's it? Who was the Night Gallery?

[Mark Hamill]

Night Gallery was Rod Serling.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Follow up to Twilight Zone.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And room 222. Come on, man.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, room 222.

[Marc Maron]

What was the name of that principal? Constantine. What was it?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. Michael Constantine, Karen Valentine, Lloyd Haynes.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And David Jolliffe, who I'm still friends with. He was one of the students. He had the big red fro.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I remember watching that. He's a. He's a big guy in sag. And I. I like to be. I don't. I always vote yeah. But I'm not always informed, so I always call Jollof and say, where are we on these issues? Sure. Sean Astin is another one.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

That I can rely on.

[Marc Maron]

And you did like you did Eight Is Enough after you did Star Wars.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, we did a pilot where they changed the actor who played the father and three of the siblings were replaced, including me. And then it sold and had a run I don't know how long ago.

[Marc Maron]

So it was just a pilot.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So when you get Star Wars. That's interesting because you probably could have gone on playing teenage parts for a while.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Because you did kind of maintain.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. I was 24 when I did Star wars and I looked like a teenager.

[Marc Maron]

But it's so fortunate that you didn't get stuck in that, because that generally doesn't age well.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To be that guy.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, exactly. You will look at these. Some people survive magnificently. My friend Bill Mooney is the best example. But I've seen young actors and you can understand why from the age of 8 to 14, they're the focus of all this attention. The car picks them up. There are people, you know, making them up and doing their hair. Then it's over. They're 14, they're gawky, they're no longer commercial, and it just wrecks their psyche. It's like when my boys came home from school one time. They said, hey, my friend Jim just got a motorbike and all he had to do was one commercial. Let us do one commercial. I said, really? You want me or your mother to pick you up after school, drive you into town, sit, Go up into an office building, sit around with 80 other kids, go in, read a couple of lines, come back down, come back home. By that time, it's seven o'. Clock. You have to do your homework, eat your dinner and go right to bed. You want that? And they're thinking about. I said, look, when you're 18, if you still want this, I'll give you all the sport I can. But no to being a child actor. That's it.

[Marc Maron]

Scared them out of show business.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

How to talk people out of show business. And when I talk to young actors, I tell them, if there's anything you like as much as this, do that. Because you're in a world of constant rejection. It's not because you're bad. It's just because you're too tall, you're too this, you're too fat, you're too thin, you've got blue eyes. We want brown eyes. It's like spinning a roulette wheel. I mean, eventually it'll come up your number, but you might have to spin it 2,500 times. So if there's anything else you like, don't do this.

[Marc Maron]

And where's your mother in all this? She supported.

[Mark Hamill]

She was always very supportive. She was the one, in other words. I remember I had no political convictions, but like Nixon versus jfk.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

My dad was pro Nixon. I'm saying to my mother, because I'm looking at JFK, he's smiling, he's funny.

[Marc Maron]

You're like 12 years old.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, it would have been 1960, it would have been eight. Yeah, he felt it. But I watch television. I love television. And if I couldn't get my way because we only had one television, I would be wanting to watch Tom Terrific. No, we're watching the six o' clock news. Well, then I watched.

[Marc Maron]

So you saw the sweaty debate.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, well, clips of it. I think they probably made me go to bed. There were a lot of things where I couldn't see them until summer. Like Twilight Zone was past my bedtime. Dick Van Dyke show was past my bedtime. I remember sneaking down and lying in the hallway with my eyes just under the door in the hallway, watching the tv. And then of course, when the commercial on, you had to run and hide as they go to get snacks or whatever. But no. And I said to my mother, I said, I don't understand it. I mean, I didn't. It wasn't based on politics. I said one guy looks like a creepy teacher that you don't want. And the other guy has like beaming rays of light and he's funny and laughing. And I said, I want. She goes, well, don't tell your father this. Yeah, but I'm voting for jfk. Those were in the days when the wife was expected to vote like the husband. Sure. And she had to keep it a secret. But she was like that. She was always the cool parent.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

The one you could relate to and confess.

[Marc Maron]

That's great.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. I mean, it was a nice balance because my father.

[Marc Maron]

That's a full time job when you get seven kids.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. Well, my father was not a bad person, but he was very authoritarian, very strict.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

You know, he'd do inspections where we come in and look how we tucked our beds in. Do this on the.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Oh yeah, with his fingers, that stuff.

[Mark Hamill]

I mean, one time gave us a lecture on how to wipe ourselves and we're like, oh, dad, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So when you get Star wars, you're you're young and you got chops, you know, from at least on set and doing roles. Was there anything that could have prepared you? How did you handle the explosion of this success?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, I should tell you that I had just come off of the Texas Wheelers.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And they set me first. And I tested with two actors. Tom Ligon, a Broadway actor who I'd seen. I can't remember what play. He's very good. And then this guy from Oklahoma with all these gums and these teeth. And I said, I don't know. I mean, I didn't have casting approval. They just wanted my opinion.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I said, tom Lincoln's an excellent actor, but that guy from Oklahoma, I. I've never. He's so authentic, that Gary Busey, I mean.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So that was the first thing that Gary got. And the thing was.

[Marc Maron]

Which was what? The Texas Wheeler.

[Mark Hamill]

The Texas Wheelers. Okay. And Jack Elam.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, the.

[Mark Hamill]

The. The character actor with a copy. And he was wonderful. And he was playing comedy. He was playing this horrible. He was in the first. In the pilot episode, he comes back after having abandoned us, where Gary assumes the father figure. So it was raucous. There was no laugh track, which was really unusual in those days. And it was a comedy. And I got to play a. It was a character role and it was funny. But my character, Doobie, was. He didn't think he was funny at all. He fancied himself a ladies man, even though he was a virgin. He was almost like the father, but he couldn't see it. So I love that role. Cause I thought, I never get to play comedy, especially somebody that lacking in self awareness. And when it got canceled, I mean, I was beyond. I was inconsolable.

[Marc Maron]

How many episodes did you do?

[Mark Hamill]

13.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Full season.

[Mark Hamill]

Four aired and then they canceled. They canceled it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I was so disillusioned. I thought, I don't even care if I'm in the business anymore, I just fuck it. Then I got Star Wars. And the reason I brought it up is that if the Texas Wheelers had been a hit, I would have been unavailable for Star Wars. So that's how quirky it is. And with Star Wars, I had my friend Jonathan Benare. He worked at the LA Art Museum in the film department. And when I got the script, first of all, I didn't get the script until I got the part. We got a scene that. We did, a test scene. I did it with Harrison, but there was no context. And I said, harrison, you were in American Graffiti. You know, George Is this like a send up? Like a parody?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Hey, kid, whatever. Let's just fucking get it done. So he was no help. Then I go to George, I go, george, is this our. Is this like a send up of Flash Gordon or. Well, let's just do it and we'll talk about it later. Translation, let's just do it and we'll never talk about it later. George doesn't want to hear about backstory or motivation. He's a film director. He comes alive in the editing room, not on set, because he's a really quiet, shy person. Jonathan read it. He goes, can I give it to Meredith? Oh, sure. We were just passing it around, which is funny now, because once it became what it was, you know, there were serial numbers. I mean, you couldn't show anybody.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Mark Hamill]

But I said, look up all the grosses from. Not. You don't have to go back to Metropolis and silent films, but look up grosses for fantasy science fiction. Not even horror films from, say, like, king Kong in 1933 on. And he did, and he showed me the spreadsheet, and I said, you know something? I think this movie will make more than Planet of the Apes. But I'm Talking about the 1968 Planet of the Apes. It cost about, I think, just about a little over 8 million in 19. And we went over budget. It was supposed to be 7.2. For Star Wars. Yeah, for Star Wars. But I said, so you have to two and a half times, and then you're in profit. So, 8. 16 plus 4 if it makes. I said, this will make 28, 30 million if it makes a dime, I'm sure. And it was important because we signed a contract that if the first one was successful, they had an option for part two and part three.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So I. When we. Even when we were filming it, I said, I. I think we're on my. Robert Watts was the production designer. On the first day at the studio, he had me in his office. He says, what do you think about what we're about to embark on? I said, I think we're on a winner. I really do. I just. It's got. It's got humor. Robots arguing over whose fault it is there's a really great villain. Effortless feminism. I mean, the princess takes no shit. She's right up in Vader's face. You call this a rescue? Give me those guns. She takes over her own rescue. Makes the boys look like chumps.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I said, that's what I love about it. It works on so many levels.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What'd he say?

[Mark Hamill]

What did who say? Rots. Well, first of all, he said, what? What would you like me to call you? Mr. Hamill or Mark? I said, hey, I'm easy. Can call me hey you.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Do you know, to the day he died last year, he called me hey, you. Hey, you. He was fabulous, this guy. And he did Raiders. I mean, he had a fantastic career on his own, but he had humor. I mean, there's something about the Brits. I mean, they have a sense of humor that's all their own.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And they can wield the C word, unlike the Americans.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's not as loaded.

[Mark Hamill]

No.

[Marc Maron]

So it becomes a success. So now you're a fucking star. When does a car accident happen?

[Mark Hamill]

That would have been January, before the movie came out. And what was interesting, nobody wrote about it because nobody knew who I was. Right. And later it came out and I broke my nose when I hit the steering wheel because I braked too hard. They made that. I rolled the car over. I was crawling on the freeway. It was just ridiculous. But I mean, I didn't really want to feed that story just so I just sort of ignored it.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, but it wasn't a life threatening thing.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Marc Maron]

It was stupid and just. It healed. And you didn't get up?

[Mark Hamill]

No, no. I mean, it was one of those things where. You know what it was? I was going way too fast. It was. There was nobody else on the freeway. Probably two in the morning.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And I saw my exit and I was one lane away from the exit and I thought rather than just going to, to the next section, I thought I could pull it off. And I pulled over and no, I had to hit the brakes and I broke my nose.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so Star wars becomes huge. And now you're in. You're like, I am.

[Mark Hamill]

I'm in. And I'm not in because like I say, you know, har. When I did the test, for instance.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I just assumed Harrison was the leading man because he's a leading man. Yeah, not until I get the I. Then how was he leading man?

[Marc Maron]

Like he hadn't been in movies that much.

[Mark Hamill]

No, no, but what I'm saying, he's the conventional 35 year old leading man. And in the screen test it's, we're approaching the Death Star, there's no Wookie, it's just me and him. And the dialogue is he's in control. And I'm sort of this annoying sidekick that he's getting irritated by. So I. Look, he's Buck Rogers. And I'm, you know, whoever the sidekick is. It wasn't until I read it, I went, oh, my God. It's through the eyes of. Of this teenager that. That shocked me. But like I say, he is a traditional leading man as well as being a brilliant actor. I. I was not that, you know, easy to cast, I don't think. And so. But like I say, I just enjoy being a working stiff. I mean, if it doesn't matter if it's television, if it's theater, movies, you know, whatever.

[Marc Maron]

All right, we'll cut to, like, post. You're working, like, once you get, you know, you know, kind of typecast as Luke, that's when the real theater starts. Right.

[Mark Hamill]

That's where I decided to go to. Because I said, unlike Hollywood, where you have to get an appointment through an agent, they have open casting calls in New York.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

In New York, yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So I read for to replace Peter Firth in Amadeus and Sir Peter Hall. Not really. He said, oh, nice job and all that, but here I knew they were serious because they said, look, we're having problem getting his green card. If he doesn't get his green card, you're it. And they put me up in a hotel for, I don't know, four nights until they found out.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So I knew they were serious. But as turned out, Peter Firth did get his green card. I thought like John Cassavetes and Rose Murray's maybe were your. You're wishing bad things on someone else just to get apart. It wasn't a nice feeling. But anyway, they gave me the first national tour of that, and then they transferred me to Broadway as Amadeus.

[Marc Maron]

What a great role, huh?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, fantastic.

[Marc Maron]

And so you did that on open Call. You were really trying to be anonymous in a way.

[Mark Hamill]

I wasn't trying to be anonymous. I just thought, I know I can do this, but they have to see me. No agent over the phone is going to be able to convince him. So I replaced in the Elephant man, then Amadeus.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, my God, those are rough parts.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, they are. And let me tell you something. I auditioned on a Sunday for Elephant Man.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And I was supposed to appear the. The first time after three weeks of rehearsal on the following Tuesday.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But they said, do you want to sneak you on on a Sunday matinee? And I said, yeah, go ahead.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And so from the Sunday, I got the.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Then I went into rehearsal and had three weeks, and then I. They put me on on a Sunday.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Wow.

[Mark Hamill]

And I mean, I. Mark, I didn't even know all my lines. And there was One part where I thought I was doing fine and I realized Carol Shelley.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Says to me, now, I don't think you're yourself today.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

You have to. She, in character was going off dialogue, and that alerted me, oh, something's wrong. She goes, now I'm leave the room and come back in. Like this didn't happen. And you mind your manners.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And then what happened? I had skipped ahead. But I'm telling you, Carol Shelley saved my life. Yeah. But I'm telling you, you appear for the first time. You're in a glorified diaper. My wife said, I could see your knees knocking that. Scared, sure. But that's what I love. I like being thrown out. And you just have to do it. So I did that. I did.

[Marc Maron]

Were you considered for the film of Amadeus?

[Mark Hamill]

You know what was interesting? Milos Foreman had me come in to read with actresses playing Costanza.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And so I was in his hotel room and we'd see three or four actresses waiting for the next one to come in. And I said, you know, Mr. Foreman, I played this part and I. I really think I. I could do a good job. He goes, no one is still believing that the Luke Skywalker is the Mozart. And I got. Oh, okay. Damn it. Because you know who wanted to play Salieri was Dustin Hoffman.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But he gave it to F. Murray Abraham because he wanted people that no one had ever seen before.

[Marc Maron]

Smart. Because F. Murray Abraham was so fucking.

[Mark Hamill]

Good and so was to Tom Hulse. I love the movie, but I have to tell you, if you get a chance to see the play, it's a very different experience than the movie because the movie is literal. They're out in the streets and there's donkeys and all that. The play is much more like an opera. It's structured like an opera, much more theatrical. So you did.

[Marc Maron]

You, like, really kind of leaned into theater for a few years.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. I did a musical called Harrigan and Hart, which was brilliant at the Goodspeed Opera. And Kevin Kelly from the Boston Globe came out and gave it a rave review. I was playing Tony Hart, and he went as far as saying, a Tony for Tony. Mark Hamill is like a young James Cagney. Well, here, cut to the chase. They take this wunderkind director. He was younger than I was. He was like 28. Eddie Stone, they fire him. They bring in Joe Layton, who had done Barnum and other musicals, and he took the sepia toned mood piece and made it primary colors. He barnumized it. And I mean, we were helpless because we knew he was ruining it. If they had just transferred the show we did in Connecticut and even put it off Broadway because people were in tears at the end and on their feet. It was a bomb. And it deserved to be a bomb because he ruined it and you're helpless because, you know it's not the way it should be. He thought the ending's so depressing because my character gets addicted to laudanum and he dies very young. Harrigan, which that song was written about. H, A, double R, I G, A N spells Harrigan. It's about him.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

He lived a long life and had many children. Is married to the same woman. Tony Hart, like I say, got addicted to laudanum, lost his youth. And we reflected that in the play. I had a fat paunch and we did makeup and receding hair. All that. So depressing. He says, let's have a moment at the end where there's a flash of magic and you spin around and you're your young selves again. Really. And so we did that. I wiped off the thing and then pulled the wig back down and pulled out the paunch and we were young again. But it was so wrong for the show, you know, as you're. Because the story itself is tragic in and of itself. If you just tell the story.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Here he wanted to make it something else. So in other words. So we opened on a. I don't know. We ran less than a week. And it was really. See, the thing is, if you're in a movie that doesn't hit, it's a year later and it's in theaters and you're not there. If you're in a play or a musical, you're there every night as it dies. And for instance, I was in a revival of Room Service directed by Alan Arkin. We got a love letter from the New York Times. I went to the theater the next night. There were lines around the block.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Conversely, it wasn't even a pan. And he was like, meh. We've seen. It was the. Michael Stewart wrote the book to Harrigan and Hart and he had written other. Mack and Mabel. He'd read We've seen other show. And it was a lukewarm review and laughs that we had been get that very next performance after that review. They're such sheep. Laughs were gone and we got them back by the end of Act 1. But that's how important especially the New York Times is in New York.

[Marc Maron]

How was Arkin?

[Mark Hamill]

He was a challenge because he. When things would go well, it somehow Made him miserable. I mean, I would be. The play would open.

[Marc Maron]

I'm familiar with that.

[Mark Hamill]

I would see him pacing at the back of the theater and go, oh, you know, like that. Really distracting. And one time he said, do you hate me? You don't like me anymore? Is that it? And I'm going, no, Alan, I'm just trying to process what you're trying to convey, and I'm just not getting what you're trying to say. In other words, I. He was one of my idols. I mean, he's such a good actor. Very difficult to work with. And his son Adam was in it. He played the bell boys. He had a small part in it, and his wife was in it. So it was kind of ark and Family Affair. And they're all lovely people, and Alan is, too. But like I say, when the reviews came out, I thought, oh, thank God, the pressure will be off. He'll be jubilant. No, he was miserable. I don't know. Sometimes it's hard for people to process joy. They don't know what happiness is. You talked about that in Panicked. Yeah. I don't know what happened. Am I happy? I mean, I don't know.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I have a hard time identifying it, so I relate to Alan.

[Mark Hamill]

I get it. And I'm the. The same way. It's just like you are. Yeah. It's like, I know I should be thrilled and happy, but I'm not in the sense that, like, in the. In the mass of. Of. Of the Star wars phenomenon, you. You immediately go to, oh, I've got to do something that breaks me out of this. I'm. I'll be typecast.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Instead of just enjoying the moment.

[Marc Maron]

Well, well, so you did the theater.

[Mark Hamill]

What.

[Marc Maron]

What. What pulled you back in? Just the next movie.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, I always had voiceover.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And it's great. It's anonymous. I mean, I'm telling you, the. It's populated. The. The voiceover community is populated with the most famous people you'd never heard of. Sure. And you meet, like, Jim Cummings or Rob Paulson or whoever it is, Jeff Bennett. And then she. Maurice lamarche. Oh, my God, he's just marvelous. And has such a range of characters. Nobody knows who he is. And a lot of them enjoy that. They don't have the pressure of being a public Persona. And I learned very quickly, yeah, I could be happy doing nothing but this.

[Marc Maron]

And how did you develop your relationship with the Letterman show?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, what happened was I was going off to do a movie in. In England, and I said to the house sitter. I said, look, there's two cases of VHS tapes. There's a show coming on that I'm sure will be canceled within a month because I'd watched his morning show. And I said, this is. Oh, my God, I love the morning show. That's where they first did Stupid Petrix. Just his whole Persona.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I realized later, of course, it's not right for morning women. So when he got the nighttime show, I said, just tape every single one and do the two hour speed because I want to transfer stuff. So when I got back, not only did he prove himself and he was successful, but I had, you know, massive mounds of tapes and there was material on there. I said, I can't let this go. So I started transferring bits to the six hour speed. Not always his monologue, usually his man on the streets or Larry Bud Melman at the Port Authority. Sure. And I wound up. I now, I mean, I want to be right. I probably have at least 25 volumes at the six hour speed, I'm sure, because I keep standups. I like. I'd see Carol Leaf or I'd see whoever. Yeah, but Letterman was the guy. I mean, I still like Kimmel and.

[Marc Maron]

Colbert and do you still have the tapes?

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, but I've got to transfer them to disc, I guess, or my wife says put them on digital, then you can see them anywhere. But I'd love to see him because I put them on for other Letterman buffs. They go, oh, man, this is. Can you make me a copy?

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Then you started to be kind of a regular guest on Letterman. Right.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, what happened was he liked using either Tony Randall or some other.

[Marc Maron]

Randall was on there a lot.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

But what they knew was that even when I was doing theater, if they wanted me to do a bit like something in, you know, viewer mail or something, that I could go to the studio, get it done and still make curtain at 7:30. So they asked me to start doing that more and more and I was totally into it.

[Marc Maron]

I mean.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

In fact, I love that more than being a guest. Because a guest, you have certain responsibilities that you have to be something. And here you're just being a bit. Yeah. You were part of their writers material and there was nobody better than my view.

[Marc Maron]

So when do you surrender to a life of being okay with being in Star wars for, you know, life?

[Mark Hamill]

Well, the thing is, I was given such definitive closure in the sequels. I do a cameo in the first one and a cameo in the second. The only time I'm part of the narrative is in Rian Johnson's middle one, and they give me definitive closure. So as an actor, I've had that before. That's my whole life, is you get the job done and you let it go. So my feeling is people say, well, are you gonna do more? I said, well, first of all, they have an ask. And number two, why would they? I mean, they're doing really well with Mandalorian and Andor, and I loved Rogue One. I mean, they're doing great. And I had my time. I have no desire whatsoever to go back. Why would I? I mean, again, I realized that I had put it into perspective. That doesn't match up with a lot of the current fans. Yeah, because they come up to me and they know more about it than I do. Sure. I saw each of the movies once. I don't go back and watch them again.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I mean, when they re release them after 20 years, my kids were all, let's go see him. I said, you've got them up in your room. I've seen you watch them three times in a row. They've never seen him on the big screen. Oh, okay. So I did. I went to see Star Wars, Empire and Jedi in the theaters in 97. But that was the last time I saw him. I don't read the novels, I don't play the games. I mean, these fans come up to me and they've seen him like 30 times in the last week, and they'll ask you questions like, when you went to the planet of Kazizik. I said, the planet of Kazizik? What the hell is that? That's the Wookiee planet. I said, do we go to the Wookiee planet in the movie? Oh, no, no, it's in front. Splinter of the Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster. I said, I haven't read that. But what I'm saying, they're sort of disappointed because I'm, like, level fan. I appreciate it, but I'm not that into it. I've left it.

[Marc Maron]

And you still have, like, because, like, these. You seem to have done quite a few Stephen King things.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah, but that's. Again, it's just by chance. I mean. And again, Life of Chuck is so diametrically opposed to the Long Walk, not only in tone and content, but in character. Albie Krantz is so different than the Major. Sure, sure. When I met Stephen King, I sat next to him at the Toronto International Film Festival, and I didn't find out until I was about to go sit down they go, you're sitting right next to Stephen King. Really? Now, I kept it together. You know, first of all, he looked at me, goes the major.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

And I think, how the hell does he know?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Later I asked the Lionsgate people, how does he know I was even. We hadn't done it yet. They said, oh, he has casting approval, director approval, script approval. I mean, when you're that prolific a writer and you had some bad early experiences where you lost control. He's got complete control.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Wow.

[Mark Hamill]

And I managed to keep it together. You know, I know I'm a good actor because I said, how do you do? Instead of, oh, my God, I didn't do that. You have him, love him. And the thing is, you know, whenever they offer me something, I immediately, immediately read the source material, whether it's Life of Chuck. It's in a collection called if It Bleeds. So I read this thing, I go, oh, gosh, I hope they keep the Act 3, Act 2, Act 1, all the structure. Mike Flanning is not only a great director, but he's a really good writer, and he's very faithful to that Long Walk. Fans have pointed out that there's some changes, different endings. Yeah. And here's the interesting thing. Stephen King totally approved of it, which is, again, a great honor. But if he doesn't like something, he's not shy about saying it. So he gave the blessing to both the Life of Chuck and the Long Walk. And so lucky.

[Marc Maron]

But what are you feeling now? I mean, like I said, you do between voiceovers and appearances, and, like, you're a guy that can play against, you know, how you're known, and sometimes you can use who you were as parody and fun, you know, like, it's a great position to be in.

[Mark Hamill]

Well, the great position to be in is, you know, I don't care. I'm old. I mean, how much more time do I have? I mean, that's why I was saying to my representatives, I said, you know, I mean, look, I did what I set out to do. I'm so lucky to have been able to be paid for what I like doing. But what's the point anymore? I mean, it's not like, oh, I want to be in this or that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But the point is, if something comes across your desk there and you're like, this would be fun. I'll do it.

[Mark Hamill]

Exactly. Now, with Mike Flanagan, it was like, I loved him so much. And his wife, Kate Siegel, and the kid Cody. The family's great. He's just a great, great person. And being on set, you feel like you're at home. And I have a great loyalty to him. So I was predisposed to just said, I've got something for you in something called the Life of Chuck. I'm thinking, I really want to do it. But I didn't say that I have to read it first. With the Long Walk, the premise is so ghastly. I said, I don't know if I could even see this, much less be in it. But when I read the book, I go, oh, that horrible premise of everyone having to follow or, you know, get it in the head from the government is just a vehicle to get you into what the heart and soul is, which is the journey of these young men on the walk.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

So. And I had a talk with Francis Lawrence. I love that guy from Hunger Games. I've always wanted to work with him. And I thought, if I turn this down, my chance of working plummet. And once I had a conversation with him about the physical violence of it all, because, I mean, you know, gun violence. Gun violence in America is one of the worst things that's ever happened in this country. Once I realized he's not. That's not what it's about. It's not about seeing exploding heads.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

The first death is the most graphic. Everyone after is much more perfunctory. It serves a purpose. You're gone. But it doesn't relish the ghoulishness of it.

[Marc Maron]

But, yeah, it's brutal.

[Mark Hamill]

And like I say, I'm so glad I did that, because working with Francis was just the greatest. He's in Europe doing something else now, so all this promotional stuff, we haven't seen him, but he's a really great guy and a really great director.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And are there still people you want to work with?

[Mark Hamill]

With? Well, obviously, you go, oh, my God. I'd work with, you know, Scorsese or Heartbeat. There's the list of all those people. But that's okay. I mean, look, I mean, I met Steven Spielberg. He's a real nice guy. He's never hired me. Okay. I still love his movies.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah. But like I say, you know, I'm at a place where if it's. This is it, that's fine with me.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

I don't really have any burning desire to. Oh, you know, no.

[Marc Maron]

Desperation.

[Mark Hamill]

No. No.

[Marc Maron]

Zero bucks.

[Mark Hamill]

It's good. I mean, I was surprised. I like Superman because these superhero movies, first of all, they are so long. It's like 2 hours and 40 minutes. I think they think that since it's an epic. It's got to be at least two and a half hours, but get the job done. Then I saw Superman. It's two hours long, economical storytelling. Boom, boom, boom is well cast. I thought, that guy gets it. What's his name? He did Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Marc Maron]

Gunn.

[Mark Hamill]

James Gunn.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Mark Hamill]

First of all, Guardians of the Galaxy I love because the humor. The humor's hilarious. But he's just the right guy to have done Superman.

[Marc Maron]

I just met that guy.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Good guy.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's great talking to you, Mark.

[Mark Hamill]

What? I want to know how close to 1600am I. Because you said you've done nearly 1600.

[Marc Maron]

No, we're well into the 1600s.

[Mark Hamill]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So you're. You know, this is the final. This is the home stretch.

[Mark Hamill]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

You were a big get for the home stretch.

[Mark Hamill]

No, I'm telling you because I'm. I'm thinking when you started doing this. Yeah, it was. It was a completely different landscape. Landscape.

[Marc Maron]

That's what I'm looking. Different house.

[Mark Hamill]

Because. Well, what I'm saying is now everybody has a podcast. Sure, everybody has a podcast. When I first heard about yours, I said, what's a podcast?

[Marc Maron]

Sure, everyone did. So if you would have done this, you know, 10 years ago, you would have driven to Highland park and, you know, come into my cluttered garage, be like, what are we doing? So now it's different.

[Mark Hamill]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, but it was great. It was really an honor and a pleasure talking to you.

[Mark Hamill]

Thank you so much.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That was great. That was great. I like talking to that guy. The Long Walk is in theaters Friday. Hang out for a minute, people. So, folks, there's only been one guest throughout the run of this show who I like talking to so much that we did a series of separate bonus episodes called the Mark and Tom Show. On Thursday, Tom Sharpling is back on WTF for the last time. When you started, like, on the radio, so none of us knew this would ever happen.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

There was no sense of any of that happening. And there was a freedom that you found. And when you had to adapt, I mean, what were the first things that were problematic for you when you realized, like, well, radio's not good anymore?

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, I was always me being on a non commercial station, it was just understood that the pact was, you will never make a nickel doing this because you're here to raise money to keep the station operating. So I did this show and it was called the best show on WFMU, which was me taunting the other DJs on the station. Because I was so unpopular there. It was like. And then this jerk just calls his show the best show on W. Like, who are you? But I did it. But it's almost like you start the discussion, then when you do a thing like that, when you say, well, it's the best show on W, people would be like, well, it's not the best show on wfmu. It's great. But other people, I think it is the best show. But if I call. If you do, it's like, the way the Clash were just, like, the only band that matters. And now people are like, well, they're not the only band that matters. Like, you're actually discussing them at the highest possible level because you framed where the discussion is gonna take place.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

That's Thursday's episode with Tom Sharpling. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast, and I got a pickup for my acoustic so I could plug it into the amp. And then I came up with this. Someone should write lyrics to this.

[Mark Hamill]

Maybe I should.

[Marc Maron]

Boomer Lives Monkey and La Fonda Cat Angels Everywhere.