Episode 1677 - Tom Scharpling

Summary

WTF with Marc Maron – Episode 1677: Tom Scharpling

Date: September 11, 2025
Guest: Tom Scharpling
Host: Marc Maron

Episode Overview

In this rich, reflective episode, Marc Maron welcomes back Tom Scharpling, host of The Best Show, in celebration of its 25th anniversary. The program is a deep dive into the changing landscapes of podcasting, comedy, and culture. Both men reflect on the evolution of their careers, their personal insecurities, philosophies on creative work, the state of comedy and media, and the endurance and meaning of friendship over time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Search for the Self

• Marc opens with candid reflections on mortality, insecurity, and the lasting impact of youthful self-perception.
• He discusses how his sense of self was challenged during a recent lunch with a college friend:

  "I had a couple of realizations, mostly that, you know, how in my own fucking head am I at all times?...He tells me that his sense of me was something completely different than what I thought." (11:00)

• Marc meditates on how close relationships create a mirror, yet the picture is always distorted by internal narratives.

2. Podcasting, Purity, and the Shift to Monetization

• Tom recounts the early days of The Best Show, broadcasting for free and just for the love of it:

  "I would think of, like, three people doing the show. If I can make these three friends of mine laugh, I just have to assume the rest of it's gonna take care of itself." (25:16)

• Both discuss initial resistance to advertising and the changing meaning of authenticity and “selling out” in the digital age.
• The concept of "content" vs. art/comedy is debated, with a lament for a time when creation wasn’t driven by building a brand:

  "When people started saying things like, well, that's on brand. I'm like, what are you fucking talking about? I wish I knew my brand." (19:46)

3. Evolution of Guest Types and the Fluidity of the Format

• Marc and Tom recall the expansion of WTF guest types from comedians to musicians and actors, and how that shift both excited and unnerved them.
• Tom credits Marc’s format for its conversational, not interview-driven, style:

  "Because it's not an interview, it's a conversation. The most basic delineation is that you do conversations here." (30:20)

4. The Comedy “Civil Wars” and Who Gets to Define It

• Conversation turns to gatekeeping in comedy, especially the influence of podcasts like Rogan, and how anti-wokeness and tribalism have politicized what was once a pure art form.

  "With this hijacking of pop culture...they and Rogan did this years ago...he put himself in the place to sort of be the guy who judges what is good comedy and what isn't." (39:00)

• Both push back on the notion that only a certain type of comedian deserves the spotlight, emphasizing that diversity and weirdness have always been central to the art.

5. Podcasting Fatigue, Authenticity, and the Value of Silence

• The long grind is explored: podcasters have gone from mysterious media presences to hyper-accessible, sometimes to their own detriment.

  "The idea used to be every two years, here's one hour of me talking every two years. And suddenly now it's like in one week, here's 10 hours of me talking and you're just like, well, the value of talking for that person is just plummeted." (98:14)

• Marc and Tom discuss how holding silence in conversation is a learned but powerful skill, differentiating authentic discourse from nervous rambling.

  "Just slow down. Rather than go, uh, yeah. Just be quiet for a second...it sounds a lot better." (93:44)

6. Transitions and the Challenge of Letting Go

• As both face professional and personal transitions—Marc winding down the podcast, Tom adapting to new life outside Jersey—the theme of finding purpose amidst change is persistent.
• Tom reflects on his cross-country trip, the changing American landscape, and the anxiety of losing home’s old comforts.
• Both men discuss the challenge and opportunity of moving beyond what’s familiar, with Marc pondering life post-WTF:

  "I don't really know. I mean, what I'll miss is that excitement and dread and anxiety of meeting new people, coming over and locking into this, because it does get me out of myself and it does, you know, kind of provide me a social life, you know." (96:21)

7. Legacy, Influence, and Friendship

• The episode closes with heartfelt gratitude each has for the other, acknowledging their roles in each other’s professional journeys.

  "Everything I've ever asked for is to get to be, like, when you look at the timeline of all of it, I'm like, a dot on the timeline." (91:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Podcasting’s Early Days:
  Tom Scharpling (28:11): "I was doing that. There was. The show grew, like, the first two years. Nobody cared. Everybody, the listeners play records, stop talking. But then it just found its audience, and it popped once podcasting in 2005...it just exponentially found people."

• On Comedy Gatekeepers:
  Marc Maron (39:44): "Well, now [Rogan]'s a gatekeeper. But he wasn't then—he was like a comedy cop. He was like Serpico...But once, you know, because of the army that he established...they do not deserve the right to dictate what comedy is."

• On Friendship and Perception:
  Marc Maron (13:00): "But just the idea that someone's perception of me was so different than what I was experiencing even back then was kind of devastating and uplifting at the same time."

• On Letting Go of Grievances:
  Tom Scharpling (67:47): "There's just, like, a moment where I was just like, you know, Kevin Smith's not hurting anybody...he just makes movies I don't like...Like, I'm gonna set that sword right."

• On Artistic Aspiration:
  Tom Scharpling (44:41): "All I ever wanted, my goal in this was to make things and participate in things that I would have...I would want to see or hear. And if I can pay my bills and actually call this my job, it's like, that's...That was all I ever wanted."

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Important Timestamps

• Marc’s Poetic Opening/Personal Reflections: 02:13 – 16:00
• Podcasting Authenticity & Advertisements: 17:04 – 26:32
• Tom’s History with The Best Show / Podcasting Origins: 21:41 – 25:47
• Evolving Guest Types & Podcast Format: 26:32 – 30:09
• Comedy, Content, and Gatekeeping: 31:33 – 42:15
• Podcasting Saturation & Value of Talk: 98:11 – 99:51
• Marc and Tom on Silence & Radio Skills: 93:08 – 94:51
• On Friendship, Legacy, and the Podcast Continuum: 87:21 – 92:23
• Closing Reflections on Transition and Letting Go: 95:04 – 99:54

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is informal, candid, and often introspective, colored with the blend of existential humor, midlife wisdom, and gentle self-mockery both hosts are known for. Tom and Marc riff amicably, sometimes with John Worster chiming in, generating the feeling of a late-night chat among old friends who have weathered a lot of change together. There’s nostalgia, some lamentation, but ultimately an embrace of evolution and continued curiosity.

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Final Thoughts

Listeners get an intimate portrait of two podcasting titans contemplating change—personal, artistic, and cultural. The episode is less about specific showbiz gossip or career launches, and more about the broad currents that shape contemporary creative life: vulnerability, authenticity, adaptation, and enduring friendship.

Recommended for:
Fans of longform, reflective conversation; those interested in the evolution of comedy and podcasting; creative professionals navigating shifting landscapes; anyone who values the real, unguarded dialogues between peers.

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For details on Tom Scharpling’s Best Show 25th anniversary tour, visit thebestshow.net. To learn more about Marc’s upcoming projects, including the documentary Are We Good?, check out arewegoodmaron.com.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Look, you heard me say it before. I don't know how much time I have left. There are a lot of things that pass me by, especially when it comes to books, and I worry about having enough time to get to them. But another thing I always say is there's no late to the party anymore. And the Foxed Page is a great way to get back in the loop of great literature. The Foxed Page is a podcast and YouTube channel that dives deep into the best books. It's basically your favorite college English class, but very relaxed and way more fun. No exams, no participation, and only books you really want to read. Your host is Kimberly Ford, a bestselling author, a one time professor and PhD in literature. She offers up entertaining, often funny lectures that will leave you feeling inspired and a little bit smarter in a nice literary way. She digs into everything from J.D. salinger to yellowface, from Stephen King to Madame Bovary, from Pride and Prejudice to Trust. Want to get the most out of what you read? The Foxed Page is for you. Visit the foxedpage.com or find it on YouTube and podcast platforms. People. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Shifting a little money here, a little there, and hoping it all works out well? With the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it [e-mail] and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck? Nicks, what's happening? I'm Marc Maron. This is my podcast. How are you doing? How. How. How can I help? What can I do to. What.

[Tom Scharpling]

What.

[Marc Maron]

What do you need? Is there. Are you okay? I. Oh, my God.

[Tom Scharpling]

Ah.

[Marc Maron]

What a time we're living in. What a time we are living in. It makes me want to. You know, I think, you know, sometimes there was a time where poetry had a tremendous impact. And I guess there's an argument to be made that a lot of things are poetry, you know, music, some writing ad copy. But there was a time, I think, and there probably are still poets that do this, where you're trying to crunch the big equations, the existential, the philosophical, the. The mystical, the. The. The personal.

[Tom Scharpling]

There.

[Marc Maron]

There was a time where poetry was sort of the mathematics of eternity and trying to wrap your brain around it. And sometimes I think, you know, maybe that's what we need is a little poetry just to, you know, frame things in a way we can understand. So now I will. I will read to you the Second Coming by William Butler Yates. Turning and turning in the widening gyre, the falcon cannot hear the falconer. Things fall apart, the center cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world. The blood dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned. The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand. Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming. Hardly are those words out when a vast image of spiritus mundi troubles my sight. Somewhere in the sands of the desert, a shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun is moving its slow thighs, while all about it real shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again. But now I know that 20 centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle. And what rough beast, it's our come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born. Yeah, that's a nice. I hope you're having coffee. I think that's a nice way to start the day. I do want to say this in terms of the center not holding. Is that violence never the answer? Violence begets violence and man just untethered times and. Yeah, I hope you're doing okay today. I talked to my friend Tom Sharpling. He's the host of the best show and someone who's deeply connected to the history of this show. He's been on eight times before and we did six separate bonus episodes with him called the Mark and Tom Show. He's celebrating the 25th anniversary of doing the best show and he'll be on the road doing some live shows to commemorate the milestone. Always good to talk to Tom. Good friends. I've had some weird revelations and experiences about the past and about friendship lately. I'll try to get into it. Maybe. Maybe I'll get into it. But I do want to say this. I want to thank a couple of people, actually. Well, I want to thank Dr. Bronner, Dr. Bronner's Soap, all in one soap. Because I talked to the Bronner that's in charge now, the grandson. And I love the company and this isn't a paid plug and I have a lot of their soap and they've always been supportive of the show and I think they're a very decent and well sourced company that are always trying to be proactive and progressive and do the right thing. And I was reminded of this because I have been using that soap since I was in college. And I realized I reached out to the guy over there who's in charge of their kind of public relations and I just wanted to thank him because I realized maybe like five or six years ago, if not more, they sent me a big box of those soaps and I've been using them. I haven't had to buy soap and I've been using Bronner's. I feel like my whole life. And it just towards the end of the show here, I just wanted to thank, thank them for keeping me clean. The documentary about me, Are we good? Opens on October 3rd in New York in Los Angeles with special screenings around the country on October 5th and October 8th. Go to arewegoodmaren.com to see where it's playing and get tickets and hopefully look, that'll if people go, it'll, it'll be in more theaters and you can still get in on the Kickstarter pre sale for our graphic novel. WTF is a podcast written and illustrated by Box Brown. You can go to Z2Comics.com WTF for that. And look, you know, I am, it's, I've been a little aggravated. I am starting to realize, as I've said before, that there's something at the core of me, or maybe I didn't tell you this. I think I actually said it at a meeting. I've been going back to the secret, the secret meetings a bit just to make sure I stay in dialogue with, you know, what is at my core now that I have time to sit with it. And a couple of things have happened in some of it. You'll hear in this, in this conversation with Tom, in terms of how far back we go and his experience meeting me and his experience, you know, watching me, which we have talked about before. But I realized that, you know, when you're untethered, intense, insecure, if you have a sort of wobbly sense of self or self loathing, there's a profound selfishness to it. It's not entitlement, but there is. Because you're so insulated in your own thoughts about who you are and what you're going through, it's rare to really understand or hear or engage with other people's perception of you. Because what you're thinking about yourself, if you're insecure, you know, resentful, jealous, Self pitying. I mean, you know what, you're just trying to, you know, to get by, but you're, you're full of this horrendous negative self talk and feelings about who you are. And that becomes sort of the external personality is, is you trying to manage those feelings within yourself, to engage with the world. But there is this thing happening now again with some of the time I'm having and the big transition I'm in and the age I'm at, where it's, it's kind of like, wow, this is still fucking here, you know, this, this core part of me is still fucking here. I mean, it's crazy. And I, and I had a conversation with somebody from my past that really kind of shed light on something that, that I didn't, I don't know, I just didn't realize it. You know, I had lunch with an old friend of mine, a buddy of mine from college. We were pretty close. We were very close. We were kind of best friends for a few years. And he was just sort of reflecting on his life and reflecting on whatever that time was back then, back in the day. And his sense of who I was, how he felt about who I was, was completely fucking surprising to me. And I realized, like, I don't know, I had a couple of realizations mostly that, you know, how in my own fucking head am I at all times? But I mean, Again, I was 20, 22, you know, 19, and I was scrambling. All I was doing was trying to figure out who the fuck I was. I was trying to, you know, be unique or different. I was, I was, I was trying to wrap my brain around, you know, art and film and poetry and writing. And I was trying to sort of dress in a way that I thought kind of had something unique about it, you know, stuff you do in your 20s. But I was at the core, totally insecure and not confident in a lot of ways. But I was persistent in this quest to find myself, you know, not find God, you know, not find some spiritual answer, but just to, you know, fill my head with stuff to make me smarter and understand things and, and to, and to express myself and just to figure out, you know, who the. Who the fuck am I? Who the fuck am I? And now at this age, at the core, I realize I'm this aggravated, still sort of resentful, kind of insecure guy that, that somehow, despite all that, you know, pulled enough together. And I'm not saying that this is an unusual disposition for a creative person to have, but, but my perception of him was back then was that this guy's got his shit together, he knows how to move through the world. He gets things done. He's a creative guy. He writes. You know, we both like film, but I thought he, you know, totally had it together and knew where he was going and what he wanted to do and where he was, you know, what the plan was and what he was interested in me. I was just, like, all over the fucking place trying to build a me. So we're talking and he says, look, man, I thought you were cool, that you were creative, that you dressed cool, that you liked all the right music. And I just felt kind of not intimidated by that, but I was sort of in awe of you. This is. This guy. For my entire life, I was, in my mind, kind of competing with and desperately trying to be like. And after 40 years, he tells me that his sense of me was something completely different than what I thought. And I was also a draining fucking guy. And I imagine I still am on some level. I mean, I'm one of these people. When I locked into a friend, you had to be all in. You were my only friend. I was demanding, I was needy, I was competitive. But, you know, if we were friends, you know, you were it. I know all this stuff about myself deep down, and I've. I've learned how to manage it. But just the idea that someone's perception of me was so different than what I was experiencing even back then was kind of devastating and uplifting at the same time. Because you just realize if you are. And look, I speak my mind a lot. I do on stage here, whatever. I try a lot of things. And that quest for landing in myself or finding myself is pretty close to done, thank God, at almost 62 years old. But I do realize that there is no way to know unless somebody tells you. And I'm talking about people who are close to you or respect you and obviously love you how you are in their eyes, unless they tell you. Look, I get a lot of shit from people. Sometimes if I say things online or wherever, I get good shit from people who watch my work, and they understand that. But the people that are close to you have an entire different you in your head than you have in yours. And I guess what bridges that gap is trust. Once you reveal as much as yourself as possible or you feel comfortable with and sort of share that vulnerability, but you still just don't really. You're unable to see yourself as others see you in your life. And because my sense of myself or my perception of Myself is so compromised by my motor brain and my fear and my insecurity, I assume that people think the same way about me. And it keeps getting proven wrong. And it's good because I might start believing it. Anyway, I'm sorry. I just guess I had to dump, as they say in the recovery racket. Today's episode is sponsored by Squarespace. We have a website that's powered by Squarespace, which has made life easier for us since we started using it more than a decade ago. With Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build an online presence of that perfectly fits their brand or their business. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services on your site and get paid. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. And with Squarespace's Blueprint AI feature, you get a website builder that helps you create a fully customized site within minutes. Choose whatever features you want to get the most out of your site. Just like we do with wtfpod.com check out squarespace.com WTF for a free trial and then use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com WTF offer code WTF. All right, so look, Tom Sharpling is here. He'll be doing live stage shows with John Worcester to celebrate 25 years of the best show. You can see these anniversary shows in Brooklyn, Philly, Los Angeles and Chicago throughout October. Go to the best show to find out more. And this is me talking to my dear friend Tom Sharplink. I had no idea that, you know, I had sort of landed a bomb because I just don't see it. Like, I thought, like, I'm barely getting any pushback at all. This is amazing. It's. Cause my algorithm is designed for my brain. And, you know, I saw, you know, Henchcliffe made some comment. Yeah. And it's weird about the pushback from those. It doesn't matter. But like, what bothers me is that he was lying.

[Tom Scharpling]

Hinchcliffe?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, yeah. No, it's a total. It's just like he was doing that blustery Howard Stern.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I like you. I did kill Tony once because he wouldn't stop pestering me. And it was when it was in the Belly Room at the Comedy Store and I didn't like it then.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was not like, I'm a regular guest.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then he insinuated that. That when he's in town, I avoid the Comedy Store. Like, why would I do that?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

For that guy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Why would I avoid that guy?

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, that's the way it was positioned, where it was like. First of all, he used the word, the phrase comedy content that he.

[Marc Maron]

Right, right. These guys show up every two years. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Doing real specials. He said they come out of their hole or whatever. Like. And they have what, an hour long special.

[Marc Maron]

Right. That they worked on for a long time. I'm churning out garbage every day.

[John Worster]

Yeah. I'm kidding.

[Tom Scharpling]

But just the idea, like, we do comedy content, it's like, why would you refer to what you make as content? Like content that's like being in advertising.

[Marc Maron]

It's totally that. I mean, you know, I. I've been talking about that a bit on stage about the, the idea of, of when we were younger and certainly you. Because in the world of music, it's like sellout. That meant something and it was bad.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It actually was a. Yeah, you were. It was a label that you could not get off.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And. And. And you certainly didn't want it on you.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, I mean, I remember like the Del Fuegos got drilled for a beer conversation.

[Marc Maron]

Imagine now they still talk about it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I'm not actively, but I talked to both of the Fuegos. I talked to both of the Zanes brothers years ago. But it was. I was in Boston when that happened and it was like, what? And then all of a sudden, I remember even when he started to hear like classic hits on commercials by bands you respected. It's like, how much fucking money could they need? I know what kind of. And then all of a sudden it just morphed into, that's the goal is selling it.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's only shifted. It really is strange when you think of like there used to be this phenomenon where, oh, well, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Brad Pitt don't do commercials in America. They do them in Japan. Like, Japan, they'll do a commercial for a soda or something because it never comes over here. Imagine that concept now. It's just like the super bowl is nothing but a parade of the most famous celebrities shilling for something.

[Marc Maron]

Totally. And it just. And also to speak to content is that the goal is to create a brand that is you. You are the brand. And then other brands will. You'll run other brands through you.

[John Worster]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And it's synergy because you've sacrificed any sense of humanity or autonomy to be this brand. When people started saying things like, well, that's on brand. I'm like, what are you fucking talking about? I wish I knew My brand. People were trying to put me in a box for decades, and now I've sort of landed on something, but I never see it as a brand.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think you. And you were told what your brand was. You didn't design it.

[Marc Maron]

No. And it never fit. But also, I remember when I started this show, the idea of doing advertising was. Was I didn't. I thought it would ruin it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like when we started wtf. I'm like, well, there's no way to make money. And what do we gotta fucking advertise for? This is. We're doing a real thing here.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

We don't need ads. And then when we started getting the sex toy ads, we're like, well, that's kind of cool.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and then the just coffee co op. Oh, I just shit my pants. We own that. Yeah, but that's the limit, man.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then audible creeped. And I'm like, no, no, no.

[Tom Scharpling]

Sometimes, like, I really. My podcast consumption is almost zero.

[Marc Maron]

I never listen to any of it.

[John Worster]

I just.

[Tom Scharpling]

I don't. It's hard enough for me to hear the one I do when I do it.

[Marc Maron]

Do you listen to yours?

[Tom Scharpling]

Why?

[Marc Maron]

Do you edit?

[Tom Scharpling]

No, I mean, when I do it, just even being there for it, I almost wish I could AI my way out of doing my own show.

[Marc Maron]

Give it a year.

[Tom Scharpling]

I know I'll just be like.

[Marc Maron]

But I mean, like when you started, like on the radio, so none of us knew this would ever happen.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

There was no sense of any of that happening. And there was a freedom that you found. And when you had to adapt, I mean, what were the first things that were problematic for you when you realized, like, well, radio's not good anymore?

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, I was always me being on a non commercial station, it was just understood. The pact was, you will never make a nickel doing this because you're here to raise money to keep the station operating. So I did this show and it was called the best show WFMU, which was. That was me taunting the other DJs on the station because I was so unpopular there. It was like. And then this, this like, jerk just calls his show the best show on W. Like, yeah, who are you?

[John Worster]

Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

But I did it. And then, but it's almost like you start the discussion, then when you do a thing like that, when you say, well, it's the best show on W, people would be like, well, it's not the best show on wfmu. It's, it's, it's great. But other people, I Think it is the best show. Like you. But if I call, like. If you. If you do, it's like the way the Clash were just, like, the only band that matters. And now people are like, yeah, well, they're not the only band that matters. Like, you're actually discussing them at the highest possible level because you framed where the discussion is gonna take place. Yeah, but I was doing that. There was. The show grew, like, the first two years. Nobody cared. Everybody, the listeners play records, stop talking. But then it just found its audience, and it popped once podcasting in 2005 is when that. It just exponentially found people. But there. And the show grew and grew and grew.

[Marc Maron]

2005.

[Tom Scharpling]

2005 is when we started podcasting.

[Marc Maron]

Really? Yeah, because, like, I. Well, that. So you were doing that with the first group. Because what if we started in 2009 so there was nobody podcasting?

[Tom Scharpling]

No, there was. Look for that. Up until, like, 2010, it was still just, like, this weird waste. It's like the kind of thing where you drop a bag of flour from a plane to say, this is my property now. You know, like, when they're claiming stuff in Florida.

[Marc Maron]

But it was for the fans. Like, you knew enough to, like, to make it available in a way that wasn't beholden to a time slot.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's exactly it. It suddenly freed the thing up to.

[Marc Maron]

Be because Brendan was listening forever. And, you know, when I finally started, you know, hearing about you from Brendan, I just saw it like, you know, well, this is. I'm excluded from whatever this world is. This is like, I'm either the one.

[Tom Scharpling]

Being excluded or the one excluding, or somebody thinking I'm excluding them, or I'm actually getting excluded.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I didn't know that, like, you know, I had built this, and I talked to you about this before, but I built this idea of you, the mythic Sharply, who had his own little alt comedy universe. I was not of that ilk, but Brendan been listening to it forever. And he always says that, you know, you provided him a template through which to understand how podcasting could free us.

[Tom Scharpling]

How the. My goal was I found my people.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you're doing the 10,000 people.

[Tom Scharpling]

I'm just gonna go, yeah, I'm just gonna do. I didn't even know what the numbers were. The only way I could gauge listeners or anything like that was through the fundraising.

[John Worster]

Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

And I could just see how the show was growing every year when we did the.

[John Worster]

The.

[Tom Scharpling]

The station fundraising things every March, I could just see, oh, we made, you know, 30,000 more than we did last year. So it just, like, I could see the growth.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

With that.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

I just was like, these people. I have people, they, like. They seem to like what I'm doing.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it honestly boiled down to, like, I would think of, like, three people doing the show. Like, if they're. If I can make these three friends of mine laugh, I just have to assume the rest of it's gonna take care of itself.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it did. But it was this thing where I was just like, I'm putting everything into this show that didn't even have the possibility of making money. But there was such a purity to it then, though.

[Marc Maron]

That's how I felt when I started.

[Tom Scharpling]

Because it was like, I'm truly doing this for, like, the love of the game, the way people talk about it.

[Marc Maron]

But also, you could do it. You dictate the whole thing.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And there's nobody. You know, there's no guy going, hey, we think you should tune. Turn down the.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's exactly it.

[Marc Maron]

And, like, you do. It's just. It's all on you, and you're all in. Cause I remember at the beginning in the garage, like, in 2009, it was like, we didn't know what we were doing, but we knew that, like, it was something, and that no one was telling us what to do. But I just think it's very funny that. Cause I've been thinking about that a lot lately where it was really a moral crisis for me as to whether we do ads. And then it was like. Then it became. For me, it was sort of like, do we need to talk to actors?

[Tom Scharpling]

You know, I remember it felt seismic when you would expand the range of who was a guest on your show. It actually felt like, oh, that's a shift. I remember when you first started having musicians on.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it was suddenly like, who's. Like, Wayne Coyne would have been one of the first ones. Right.

[John Worster]

Sure.

[Marc Maron]

Maybe I remember because you've been a listener and you've been supportive, and you've been on the show fucking eight times. And we did, like, six Mark and Tom shows. We don't even know what we talked about anymore. But there is an area that I want to talk to you about that is not historical. But nonetheless, you've been part of the show since the beginning as a listener and as a guest. And I don't know. Was it Wayne? I feel like. I feel like I got very, like. For me, because, like, I always thought you were, like, the cool guy and that, you know, that Your world was cool, you know? Cause, like, for me, I'm like, you know, always, you know, late to the party with everything, you know, Like, I started listening to Black sabbath in my 40s, so, like, yeah, I knew they existed.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I just assumed it wasn't for me. So it's like, there's certain elements of me that are stunted, but I just remember, like, you know, when I had to have Ty Segal on, like, I remember like, just like, you know, I wonder if I can get Michael Cronin.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You think I can get him over here? Well, the thing is, even, like, you have Michael Crony of Ty Segel, John Dwyer, all these, like, you realize they're here. You realize almost everybody at the Strada, they're just hanging out.

[Marc Maron]

I know.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's just like, hey, what are you doing on Wednesday?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they're down the street.

[Tom Scharpling]

I'm not doing anything.

[Marc Maron]

Siegel used to work at a fucking record store once a week.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And. But I thought these were mythic people.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

With big things.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it even goes way up the. Like, there's like famous people. It's still Wednesday for them. And they don't. If they don't have anything to do.

[Marc Maron]

They'Re not on set. They're just sitting around making their assistant miserable. But why didn't you get the good lettuce? But, but, yeah, when I. But you're right. When I started talking to musicians, that was a big deal. And then we were recording them, you know, in our very raw way. And, but, but really I. I didn't know how to evolve the show. And it was all very nerve wracking, you know, because I'm like, you know, by and large, I assume that actors. Not great interviews. And then eventually it's like, well, dude, you're gonna have to talk to some of these people. And then like, they, you know, you figure out a way to do it.

[Tom Scharpling]

Sure. Did you feel like at a point. Because the thing just grew and the access to people saying yes became a lot easier as, like, it's just. It's kind of just like.

[Marc Maron]

Sure.

[Tom Scharpling]

It kind of is like a snowball going down the hill. And suddenly it's like, like, at its worst. Were you worried that. It's like, I'm just like Byron Allen here, Like one stop, one of the many stops on the. The tour.

[Marc Maron]

Always my worry.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

To the point where I don't know if people even, you know, would remember me. Like, I still have that. Like, I. Because I know from doing these things, when I see People have been on the show. I'm like, they probably, you know, they were probably just moving through stuff. But. But also from the beginning, there was that horrendous anger that, like, you know, I didn't set out to be a fucking talk show host.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And my insistence on doing 15 minutes of loose rambling was just to make sure that I planted my little flag.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And not just like, hey, yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Today on the show, I'm talking to. And then all those emails of people are sort of like, let the guests talk. I'm like, no, no, I will not. I will interrupt freely.

[Tom Scharpling]

Absolutely. Because it's not an interview, it's a conversation. It's the most basic. The most basic delineation is that you do conversations here.

[Marc Maron]

You don't do interviews. Yeah. And I grew to accept all that. Now who gives a fuck?

[John Worster]

Well, it's.

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, because the thing that happened is suddenly every one of those people was just like, well, I think I'll do a show now.

[Marc Maron]

But like, going back to like, okay, so when you did. Because I want to talk about the evolution of this thing that we've become involved with. So you start doing the podcast. And then. But that was just. It was just a radio show and the podcast. Podcast. Until you moved really Right. Or you started.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was pretty much. It was the. The show was live on Tuesdays and then we would. It would stream. You could listen to it on the terrestrial radio, no video. And then we would just edit out the music and put it up as a podcast the next day. Because music's this, you know, and licensing. I'm not going to do that. So. So it was just available in a few different ways. You could listen live, you could listen on your computer, you could download it as a podcast. And it was that way for a very long time.

[Marc Maron]

Well, you started like 25 years ago, right?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. This is the 25th anniversary of me talking. Doing the best show.

[Marc Maron]

Talking.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's talking. Sometimes I think about if somebody, if somebody had sat me down and said, put a contract in front of me. This is a 25 year contract. You're gonna do one of these every week for 25 years.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And for the first 15, it's gonna be for free.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I would just be like, this is the worst deal I've ever heard in my life. So the first 2/3 of it I'm doing for free. And it's just like. But it was one week at a time. And then suddenly I'm like, oh, my God.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, we're in.

[Tom Scharpling]

It oh, my. This far in this. And it's just. It has become. I am like one and the same with the show now. The show just. There's a point, like, the show is just happening in my head. Yeah. And then just once a week, I go and I kind of just say it to people.

[Marc Maron]

You just. You have the conversation going and it's like in the mic. And that's the part of the conversation. Conversation comes out for three hours.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like, all right, let's get the. Let's get all this out. Because that's what I do with this information. I say it at the end of. It's ready to say. And then I just drive home and it's already. The process has already begun again.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I don't know that, like, I find that for me, because I. It's all self generated, but it's me in my little spiral of me. Like, if I don't add things in, like, you seem to be a better consumer than me, and you're reflecting. You have things that you're looking outside of yourself at and passing judgment on. I don't seem to be in any sort of consistent loop of putting new stuff into my head. So it's just me. Kind of. Like when I look at all the last three specials, I'm like, all right, well, I've done three specials, and I think I've evolved the ideas that are always ruminating in my head in as. As far as they can go. So I don't know if you have the experience where, like, I get on these mics sometimes and. And there's part of me that's sort of like, I got nothing to say at all. And then I'll have to dig down.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And find it. And then you. You know, I got to get worked up about something. But then I. When I get done with that kind of stuff, I start to realize, like, I don't know if you're really that worked up about that, you know, and, you know, and, you know, maybe. Maybe you don't have to.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, Michael Jordan would do this thing because he was like, the most competitive human ever. He would. And an NBA season, the regular season is 82 games. That's a long time to get up for every game. So he would manufacture slights and insults. If somebody said anything, he would just be like, oh, yeah, well, I'm gonna fucking torch you tonight. Yeah, like. And they're just like, no, no, no, no, I didn't. It was not. I didn't insult you. Like, he's Just like. And he would destroy these scenes because he'd be like, you think I. I'm sucking. I never said you suck. He would just. But he had to, like, play these games with his head to keep himself to get up for every game. Otherwise, he would just. The motivation is what he needed. So he had to literally create false fights.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah. But for me, the problem is that I'm creating false fights with myself. There's a concept. I'm just literally like, you fuck. How do you live with your stuff? Piece of garbage.

[Tom Scharpling]

When you talk like that, it's like. I think on my show, like, a month or so ago, I was trying to talk. Ask the audience, like, what are the things? When you talk to yourself, like, what do you say? And people. Because, like, the things I say to myself is just like, what are we gonna do every day? It's like, what are we gonna do?

[Marc Maron]

What am I gonna say to this guy?

[Tom Scharpling]

I was just like, but I'm talking to myself. I'm like, you dumb. What are you gonna do today? And I'm like, this is how I talk to myself. Like.

[John Worster]

Like.

[Tom Scharpling]

But I'm just. And nobody had, like, people, like, I don't talk that way to my. I thought. I thought it was like, well, everybody talks to themselves that way. And it's like, they don't. They really don't. I started to realize I'm alone with a lot of the. Like, we're.

[Marc Maron]

We're inner Michael Jordaning ourselves.

[Tom Scharpling]

We're ramping up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, we're ramping up.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. And then I'm like, you. I'm gonna show you. I was like, who am I arguing with? I'm gonna show you all. What am I like? It's like, I'm.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you think I'm gonna do that? You think I'm gonna do that?

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, but I don't know if I feel that with the way you talk.

[Tom Scharpling]

But that's the inner monologue that gets me. Morning gets me going.

[John Worster]

Well, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, that was half of my incentive, was the arc of realizing that whatever beefs I thought I had with people were totally in my head. That was a long and hard lesson to learn.

[Tom Scharpling]

Ironically, now, though, they're not in your head.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's. That's the big fear of, you know, not having Brendan stop me from saying, yeah. Like, you know, he'll just take out now. Like, I don't know. I think if it were earlier in the podcast, me running around talking, you know, I just think Brendan's like, oh, my God, what is he. He can't be allowed to just go out there and talk freely on other shows. It's going to start trouble.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, it's. But I. Look, I've been, I can just say watching you on this last, this last run here has been. It's like I've been like ecstatic with it. It's been just like that.

[Marc Maron]

Luna, Mark is back.

[Tom Scharpling]

I'm just like, Howie Mandel. Howie Mandel. It's like, all right, who's next? He's gonna go. Where's he going? Okay, Hinchcliffe. He's getting him. Bill Maher. You got Bill Maher now. Like, I'm just like, this is like. It's like, yeah, he's getting a all.

[Marc Maron]

You get them all the checklist.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, it's just like. It's like he's clearing the decks on this thing on the way out to where it's like I said everything.

[John Worster]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tom Scharpling]

I needed to say goodbye. Like, it feels like you're building through. Just like I've established. I hate you, I don't respect you, you were never funny.

[Marc Maron]

And this is the best special I've ever done. And it's all in there.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it's just like, see you when I see you.

[Marc Maron]

That sort of seems to be what's happening.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And I think it's great because when did it feel like you needed to address these things so directly?

[Marc Maron]

I think, because the special. And I knew this, that like. And I said this about the last one, you know, and maybe even the last two, but the last three specials, I'm like, this is the best work I'm gonna do. And in this one I was relaxed, I was focused, I was able to articulate my politics with also taking the task like minded people. But once I was able to sort of make the connection that this idea of anti wokeness which was the pet peeve of the comedy community, once that became the umbrella through which the administration was gonna create policy to totally undermine democracy, I'm like, they're part of it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they can't be separated from it. And whether they knew and I knew.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was coming, sure it was.

[Marc Maron]

So it seemed to me that I could speak for my community about my community and about politics simultaneously, but also just. I think what bothered me the most was that with this hijacking of pop culture and the hijacking of cultural entertainment in general that's gone on with the sort of tribalization and the push from right wing propagandists and the Austin group, is that they and Rogan did this years ago that, you know, he put himself in the place to sort of be the guy who judges what is good comedy and what isn't. That guy. That guy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, now he's a gatekeeper.

[Tom Scharpling]

But he wasn't then he was like a comedy cop. He was a comedy. He was like Serpico. And he's like, right, he's going. He's busting this one, he's busting that one. Like going up on stage with Mencia.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, but, you know, sure, there was, you know, inter comic problems around stealing, you know. Yeah, but, but once, you know, because of the, of the, the army that he established that were not essentially comedy fans who they were feeding this idea of what real comedy is.

[Tom Scharpling]

Other MMA fans.

[Marc Maron]

Right. But it's not, you know, they, they do not deserve the right to, to dictate what comedy is. And because of the way culture works now and, and, and media and bubbles of media, I felt that, you know, there was a whole bunch of us, you know, who were not being represented, real comics who do, you know, do interesting stuff that aren't just looking to, you know, charge up a bunch of morons. And it's always been that way. Like, you know, I got an email the other day, you know, from somebody, you know, who said, like, you know, I was wrong about Hinchcliffe. You know, he gives, you know, I saw a guy on there who had, you know, who, you know, has very autistic or something, you know, do, you know, on the Kill Tony show and he went back at Donnell and, you know, he won. And you know, those guys don't get, you know, their shot in elitist show business. So, you know, Tony's providing this stage for, you know, these, these people that would not necessarily get their shot. It's like, first of all, that's not true comedy. If anything, there was always people that, you know, I remember, you know, people in wheelchairs, people with one arm.

[Tom Scharpling]

You know, people like one of the earliest memories is like, Jerry Jewell doing standup and being like, oh, she's doing standup.

[Marc Maron]

Comedy was always very forgiving. But that just speaks to the fact that, you know, mainstream show businesses kind of collapsed. But, but to answer your question, it just, I realized that with the special because I was more grounded and made a lot of decisions in that special that were very deliberate and studied and took me a long time to sort of balance that like this. I'm saying my piece here, clearly, you know, in terms of what we.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was not blind items it was not. You're not being cute and dancing around. And that's what made it work for me at least, is just that it was like, oh, no, no. You're like, sink or swim. You're just gonna say it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And just. You'll accept. Unlike a lot of these comedians, they don't want to. They think the idea of somebody not liking what they do is canceling or. And having a problem. It's like, no, you have an opinion, so I can have an opinion. We all have opinions. But the idea that, like, you weren't ducking it or trying to have it both ways with it, it's just like, you know, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen, but you're gonna say it out loud.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Because it's like, it just. I've been saying it here for a long time, and I didn't, like, honestly, when I did those other shows, when I did, like, you know, Soder and I did Bobby and Andrew and then Andrew show and then, you know, Howie's or whatever and. And Ryan Sickley or whatever, I just wanted to do comedy podcasts to get my special out there.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But this happens every time after a special. I can't see my way through yet to what would actually become another hour or, like, the idea of freeing me up from the podcast and also having the special done and having. This time, I would like to see where my creativity can go untethered to me, which is why I'm going to focus on getting the movie made from Sam's book and try other stuff. You know, I just. I'm a comic by nature and by, you know, profession, but there is a part of me that feels like I said it.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, well, you're a jealous comic because you're a complete failure. So, of course you're looking up at all these great men who've accomplished all these things, and you've just been.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

In the shadows.

[Tom Scharpling]

No one's wanted anything you've ever done.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. That's the point of view of the other side. Yeah. I just keep.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's the best part of. We've talked about elephant graveyard off Mike. I've watched it as if I'm just watching a movie. I'm just like, I gotta watch that movie again. The suey eyes were just like, rest in peace. But when he pointed out their defense is always, well, you're just jealous.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you're just jealous. What? It's like this assumption that, like, we're not making a living or something.

[Tom Scharpling]

All I ever wanted, my goal in this was to make things and participate in things that I would have.

[Marc Maron]

Want.

[Tom Scharpling]

I would want to see or hear. And if I can pay my bills and actually call this my job, it's like, that's. That was all I ever wanted. I never wanted anything more than that. And I've got that.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't even know what to do. Like, you know, I do fine. I do great, but I don't. Like, I don't think in terms of, like, finally, I can buy the. What?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, it's like, I don't care what.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, I buy a belt and I'm like, this is nice.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it's like. Like, man, these guys with the watches, that's the one. I. That's the thing.

[Marc Maron]

I can't wait to. Yeah, I got talked. I got talked into this one by Dean, of course. You know, this is a Speedmaster, and it's fine. But I was like, I was just wearing, you know, Seikos and stuff. What do I care? But it's a nice watch where you gotta wind it.

[Tom Scharpling]

But when they're just like, oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

This is the whole thing. This is all of it.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But I. I also think there's a sense that balance has to be try. We gotta try to regain balance, you know, because we're in a world of shut the fuck up. And, you know, it's like, comedy is a very sort of diverse and nuanced and interesting, and it's a stage where, you know, you can do whatever the fuck you. You want. And just the fact that, like, that's why I always refer to Maria Bamford and stuff, that the fact that these apes are dictating the idea that. Or presenting the idea that this is what we know what comedy is. It's like, you don't. You're all saying the same fucking thing. There isn't a goddamn interest. All I know is, like, there was clearly. And you said this before, that all these things have an arc, but there was clearly a vulnerability, because whatever happened between Elephant Graveyard and me and Joe realizing that he was on the hook, it's buckling a little bit, and there's gotta be a pleasure in it.

[Tom Scharpling]

I really just feel like it can't sustain. And if you look at the history of these things, people who are younger might not realize that in, like, 1988, 89, it felt like Andrew Dice Clay owned comedy. Like, he was the. Like, Sam Kinison and Andrew Dice Clay were the bosses of comedy.

[Marc Maron]

That's when I was a door guy.

[Tom Scharpling]

I remember it well, but it was. It felt. It didn't feel like it was gonna stop.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It felt like this is the way it's gonna be now.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And then it stopped it all.

[Marc Maron]

But now it's different, which is why Howie was wrong. It's like, I think you're giving comics too much credit. So they're not doing comedy. Yeah, they're not doing. They're yammering on about this and that, and now, you know, they are. They're influencers.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're being. You know, then they're deciding that they're political spokesmen because the right has enabled them to create distraction and division, and they eat it. It's bait. How the fuck could you be a free thinker if you're all talking about the same three things?

[Tom Scharpling]

I know. It's just that thing where it's like, trans. Check.

[John Worster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Woke. Check.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Immigrants done. Check.

[Tom Scharpling]

Thanks, everybody. Let me tell you about Better help. It really feels like what's going to happen now is right now it's like the. It's like the first part of 2001.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And we're waiting for the monolith to show up so that these. Waiting for the monolith, they're always just.

[Marc Maron]

Like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like. And, like, one would. They can touch it. So they can finally stop being apes and evolve.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

But, like, we're still in that part where the apes are just jumping around. They're just jumping around.

[Marc Maron]

One guy found a thing to hit the other guy with. Yeah, we're in that part more.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think the monolith is late. Spotify, like, the Spotify monolith comes down.

[Marc Maron]

But here's my question, though, in terms of, like, also along with what we're doing, because I don't know that I talked to you.

[Tom Scharpling]

Really.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, we did a talk about the book, right?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then. But we talked about you got married and everything else, and you left Jersey.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I've been rewatching the Sopranos, so I'm in deep Jersey right now.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, yeah, it's that.

[Marc Maron]

So good.

[John Worster]

Right?

[Marc Maron]

I can't.

[Tom Scharpling]

There's still lines on the Sopranos I think about that are like the. Like, when Tony was sad, and then Paulie Walnuts is just like. He's like, tone, you want me to send the kid to go get some Baja Fresh? Like, to try to cheer him up.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like. That's the most well crafted, funniest line I've ever heard to have come out of this guy's mouth. You want me to send the kid to get some Baja? Like, he doesn't know Baja.

[Marc Maron]

Like, I didn't realize until watching it this time, which is. This is my third time through. I think that, you know, Paulie is, like, so dumb.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, you know, he's like. He can't read. Really. He can't. You know, he dropped out of high school in ninth grade.

[Tom Scharpling]

He's a little boy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And it's just like, there are certain things that I'm noticing and truly not unlike Breaking Bad. Like, I don't think I fully realized just how quickly the empathy for Tony went away. I mean, it's gone by the middle of season two.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you're still watching it.

[Tom Scharpling]

He's a monster. And it's just like you're. Yeah, it's such a tricky thing. It's just like you're rooting for him. But are you rooting for him? No. I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Not really.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But what I want to talk about, because this is, like, my concern is that, you know, now that, you know, sort of mainstream show business, in terms of having a big public reach for interesting things, both on television and in movies, and that most of people are getting their entertainment from YouTube or podcasts, that I think what's happening, and it goes in line with this sort of anti elite, anti intellectual, anti education, anti science thing, is that just by virtue of people adapting to what's readily available, that the bar is being lowered probably permanently, that. That people will no longer be able to realize what is brilliant and amazing.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, Well, I mean, people are definitely getting rewired now to, like, the way people can. What they can handle. It's like, shockingly low, where it's just like, I'm not reading that. I mean, one long paragraph you see online, somebody puts a thing up as a paragraph. I'm not reading that. It's like, what? You can't take 40 seconds to read this thing? And like, when the elephant graveyard. 1. Like, I look at the comments fields. I'm not one watch in an hour and a half. It's like, first of all, it's a masterpiece. Yeah, it's like. And it was boring. Yeah, it's like, how boring? Like, what do you need? What's the stimulus?

[Marc Maron]

But those are boring people saying, yeah, I mean, I talked to Heidecker, and that was like. That was. The interesting takeaway was that, you know, most of this stuff is boring as. Yeah, it's just like, it goes nowhere. And the people that are, like, fucked up. It's like they're, you know, and they're the people that are dictating culture that the most boring people in the world that don't even have, you know, the, the, the sort of willingness or basic open mindedness to take in something interesting because it's too threatening to them.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're. And they're the ones that all the major entertainment companies are trying to appropriate.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like, well, we don't want to turn them off to this thing. It's just like, why not?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, let's force them to. We used to evolve. Or go away.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Go back to wherever they came from on some level.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's just this weird place where the, the dummies are in charge and it's like, we don't want to rock the.

[Marc Maron]

Boat on all levels. Yeah, yeah, whatever. You know, like, again, I've said my piece. Maybe I should say more of it. There's people that are hanging this sort of like Carlin, like expectations on my philosophical point of view, but I'm like, that's gonna take a lot of work to keep turning that out.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And you can't. The thing is like, he got to such a dark place that it just like, I never saw you as being.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Tom Scharpling]

Anywhere near that.

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, that's just like. You're not a nihilist.

[Marc Maron]

No, a couple. I have a couple lines. I wish I was more of a nihilist, but I like animals. It would be easier. Yeah, it would definitely be easier. I'm close. I ride the edge.

[Tom Scharpling]

You see it and it's just like. It's like I can't live there. I can visit, but I can't stay there.

[Marc Maron]

I like people too much. Yeah, but when you went to video, were you apprehensive?

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, yeah. I still am. I still am. I don't know if I'll ever be truly comfortable with it. It's just, it's the pandemic changed podcasting.

[Marc Maron]

With all this video corruption, everyone should get the fuck off Zoom. You know, the plague is over. Put your pants on and go talk to people.

[Tom Scharpling]

Go drive in your car and go get a bottle of water where it.

[Marc Maron]

Smells different, you can see them and vibe.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

When you can actually feel the room there. Not just like, like, not just like.

[Marc Maron]

What'S that on the shelf?

[Tom Scharpling]

That's exactly. It's like, oh, they gotta.

[Marc Maron]

I love those people that put their own books on the shelf.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, my God. And you can. When you feel how much thought goes into, like their shot and they're Just like, if I put this painting.

[John Worster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It'll show that I'm.

[Marc Maron]

Makes you appreciate the public access nature of people that don't really. With their room where animals show up or kids.

[John Worster]

Yeah, no.

[Tom Scharpling]

The video thing is just a part of what it's like in 2025 to be. To be doing this. And it's just like, I'll always prefer just the audio part of it. That was what I fell in love with as a kid was radio. And I didn't know what DJs looked like. I didn't know what it was like the first time I saw that. Like, DJs are basically in a phone booth. Like, they're here with two turntables and carts, and they're. But they're just like. They're. You can't even move. Yeah, it was like, when you're. When you're listening to it, you think it's this.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Huge.

[Marc Maron]

And they're. They're. They're amazingly large personality people. I told a story about Bobby Box. The kqeo. KQEO am was a station that was on in junior high, you know, playing hits. And Bobby Box was the guy. Bobby Box spinning the hits. And he came to host a dance at our school, and he was like this almost a dwarf, and he was wearing this plaid suit and he had this horrible haircut, and everybody was like, that's him.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, no. Yeah, I remember John. John Worster is one of the funniest things. Like, he was, you know, he was obsessed with rock radio also. And one of the stations in Philadelphia changed formats, and it was trying to be like, Like, like, like new wave.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And he's listening and he hears this DJ on there, and he's just like, hey, this is Mo Hawk, and I'm doing a thing. And he's just. John's just like, I think this is a guy just changed his name to Mo Hawk. Hawk on the station. Like, same old guy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

So he calls. He's like, hey, you Mohawk? Are you with the other guy? He's like, yeah, I'm gonna quit next week. They changed formats. I'm getting out of here.

[Marc Maron]

Mohawk. Was Mohawk the best he could come up with?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, just some old guy just say, I'm just trying to do radio. And he comes in, it's like, hey, we're changing formats. Better play some psychedelic furs. And yeah. He's just like, what is this? He's just like, sure, I'm Mohawk, but.

[Marc Maron]

What is the business model now? Like, what are you Doing over there?

[Tom Scharpling]

You doing all right with my show?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but don't you have like spin offs and everything?

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, we do stuff for the Patreon, like bonus things for Patreon and it's fun to do things.

[Marc Maron]

I don't even know the Patreon world, so that's like, you know, special stuff they pay for.

[Tom Scharpling]

You just do extra stuff. That's like. I always looked at it as like the. My show will never. I will never charge for the show. I was never gonna. Like, people have floated things. It's like, well, what if the first half is free and the other half is behind a paywall? It's just like, I got into this for the thing to be available to anyone who ever wants to Hear it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

100% for free.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that was like an. That was in like a non negotiable point for me. But things beyond that, it's like, well, if people want more, we can do more. It's like. But holy moly. You get three hours a week. For most people, that is probably enough. It's 20.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's just you can get as much as you want and you say when you're full.

[Marc Maron]

But doesn't Julia have a show?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, we do a thing where we talk to people called outgrown and we just ask them about stuff when they.

[Marc Maron]

Is that a Patreon show?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, we do, but we put it. It's Patreon for a little bit and then it's just on YouTube for everybody to hear, like, with this, like little windows of exclusivity.

[Marc Maron]

How's that doing?

[Tom Scharpling]

It's fun. It's just like we. It's nice to just look. To be with somebody who I actually respect from like an artistic standpoint is mind blowingly exciting.

[Marc Maron]

And you and Klausner still do the thing?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, yeah, we do a show together. Double Threat.

[Marc Maron]

That does good.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's all fine. It's all like. But again, it's like we were talking about, we have our people, they're into it. We try to uphold the quality to make them happy. We're not trying to just get everybody. It's like at a point. Everybody's doing a niche thing at a point and you just know your lane. And it's not like you don't want it to be redundant or boring, but you definitely. You don't have to keep cracking the thing open and trying to reinvent it. It's just like, no, this is. This works. We'll do this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's what we did. Yeah, it's what. It's what you do. I don't know. I don't think I'm disillusioned. I think I am just, you know, adapting to where we are, and I think on a certain level, that can feel like disillusionment.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I mean, when you. When. When things are so in flux.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And. And uncertain.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It feels like when you're just trying to say, like, hey, I'm just talking about how it is right now. It's just like, well, why are you so negative? It's like, well, I didn't come up with where we're at. I'm reacting to it. This is a reaction to things. I'm not starting the discussion.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's hard and, like, for me to have done this show for 25 years.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's really. It just is now. I don't even know what that. It's like. I still really do like doing it, and I just, like. And I try to find new things that keep me engaged.

[Marc Maron]

Like, what now?

[Tom Scharpling]

Just, you know, trying to have different guests on and stuff and, like, going out of my comfort zone a little bit with that stuff.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, had Adam Freeland on the other day. I mean, that's somebody. People are just like, why is he having this Cometown guy on the show? Like, yeah. Cause it's like, that's out of the.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's the old bubble.

[Marc Maron]

That's the old Adam. Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

He's. I like it. I think he's very.

[John Worster]

He.

[Tom Scharpling]

He was. So when I told him you said, what's his problem? What the problem with me is, he was like, legitimately, he's like, I love him. And I was like. I was like, mark's cool with all this. Don't worry.

[Marc Maron]

The thing is, is, like, you know, I am a lot more out of the loop than most people. People know. So, like, all I hear is like, you know, they're talking about me over on Cometown. I'm like, what the is Cometown?

[Tom Scharpling]

I backed into that one in a way where I was just like. I heard the name, and I was just like, well, I don't think that's gonna be for me.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, you can't judge a book by its cover.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Because, look, I think. I think those guys are all funny. I think Stavi is.

[Marc Maron]

I love Savi. I had him on, and after I had him on, people were like, you know, they were talking about you for a year or two, and I'm like, I don't know.

[Tom Scharpling]

Just like, yeah, but you know, like, why not? That's what they were supposed to do. They're in their 20s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I know.

[Tom Scharpling]

Or early 30s. It's like, yeah, I did it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I'm just not doing it anymore because.

[Marc Maron]

I just, I just, I just did it last month.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, you exactly. You're on a royal tear here. I was just like when we were doing that stuff, I'm just like, oh boy, I hope Mark still likes me. Hope my number's not coming up soon. But it's just like you're supposed to throw rocks at the person who's a little older than you. It's just what I've done it and I just will probably do it forever. And I just like. But it's to some degree, I'll do it forever. But it's just like, they're just excited kids.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. The weird thing about throwing rocks, this is the big hurdle for me in that whole thing was that this idea of like, why you? Why are you slagging other comics? And I had to deal with this years ago. It's like when somebody is part of the culture in a way that transcends comedy per se, their phenomenon of one kind or another, they're fair game. Yeah, they have to be. You know, it's not like, you know why, you know, you shouldn't make fun of that comic just because he killed somebody.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it's also not like, it's like, it's comedy. It's not like you're like, boy, you really shouldn't go after the other people who knit like this. Because it's like, yeah, comedy's based on making fun of people, like just blasting people. It's like, that's what it is. Knitting is a passive. Yeah, I made sure confrontational thing. Comedy is confrontational. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I made sure it was all.

[Tom Scharpling]

Funny that I watched literally last night I showed the elephant graveyard. One of the taking on Joe's special to somebody. I was just like. Cuz they were like the cops. They were like, I don't know that I don't know. Elephant. Oh my God, we're need to watch it right now.

[John Worster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it's just like the, it's just like this guy is like a surgeon.

[John Worster]

Yeah, he is.

[Tom Scharpling]

When he just does these things. And like I've tried, I've like DM'd with him over on Patreon. Just like, I'm such a big fan, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then because he was, he was getting like 10,000 views a video like 10,000 20,000 views. And then just the first one a year ago, the ROGAN One, just 2 million views. Just suddenly, he. He popped.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And then it was like. And now he's like, the. The guy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

But he's. He just seems like he's just a. He wouldn't. I don't know who he is.

[Marc Maron]

Me neither. I've emailed with him.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. He keeps it deliberately vague, and he should. It's fine. Who cares who he is?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You know. Oh, his name's Glenn. Okay, well, now we know. It's like when.

[Marc Maron]

Glenn. What kind of name is that?

[Tom Scharpling]

I remember when.

[Marc Maron]

Like, that's a cuck name.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

When KISS were just like, kiss are gonna take their makeup off now. And it's like, oh, this we're gonna see what Kiss really look like. And then they just show it to us. Oh, they're just guys with faces. It's like, what did we think was gonna be under there?

[Marc Maron]

I do remember it was a bit.

[Tom Scharpling]

Disappointing, but it was just like. There's no version of it where you'd be like, oh, my God. That's who they are. It's like, they're just guys.

[Marc Maron]

I wish these guys would take their fucking masks off. Take the makeup off.

[Tom Scharpling]

When he did that thing about. He's about the 250 comedians.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And he sang it to Katt Williams, and Cat Williams is just looking at him like, I don't respect you. Like, Cat Williams could not have more contempt for him in that moment. He's just like. Because, you know, there's only 250 of us, and we, you know, who can really do this? And Cat Williams is like, mm. Oh, so you're one of the 250. This guy who just, like, is a. Like, Cad Williams is just like Godzilla in a way. Like, he could just. When he.

[Marc Maron]

He's actually one of the funniest guys alive.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's what I can Like. But when he's doing the thing, it's like, you. No one can stop him.

[Marc Maron]

He's great.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, my God. No, he's. Yeah, he's like the. He's like, in. There's like, there are these people that they're only one of. There's one. It's like he's one of one.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that's.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it's.

[Tom Scharpling]

When he's gone, that's gone.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

The thing with, like, Adam Friedland and some of these guys is like, look, you know, I'm. I'm an old man. You know, I'm two generations away from them, and I. I think there are moments where I'm like, I. This guy is somehow like me.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, I. Look, I. Watching that. His show.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It. It. He's just like. You're watching him. Like, not that he's figuring it out, but he's. He's in it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

For the first time, like, he's going into Uncharted for himself.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And you could watch, like, the one. The Richie Torres thing he did. Did you see that? Oh, my God. It's like. Cause he's talking to this New York congressman who is like, a guy who's like a big AIPAC guy, just takes tons of money from aipac. And to see him, like, Adam Freeland, he gets so vulnerable with this guy and just talks about what it's like to be Jewish in America in 2025, and that I feel more people like Jews less because of situations that have not. Like, he just. He lays it out. He's like, it hurts me to. For my identity to have this conflict. It was the most sincere thing.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's really pretty. Pretty powerful.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, good.

[Tom Scharpling]

And seeing him do that, I was like, oh, this guy is like, he's ready to go somewhere with what he's doing.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Trying to get real.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. It's just, like, good for you. You're not just gonna be snarky and just do that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. I think that whatever he had coming at me was just this snark.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's a good. Like, you've. We've all worn that hat at a point. Like, now he's got the hat on. Like, you know, you've worn the hat. I wear the hat. Everybody wears the hat.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And now you got to deal with the blowback.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I would think. Now I think I get. I don't attack people on my show or goof on people on my show for no reason. Like, I. I would think I'm just selective about it now.

[John Worster]

And that's.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think that comes with maturity. You're just kind of like, you realize who the actual targets should be.

[Marc Maron]

Well, there's certain people you have that vibe with.

[John Worster]

I.

[Marc Maron]

Do. You know, anybody that can indulge my.

[John Worster]

My.

[Marc Maron]

My. My charming bully, I'll do it.

[Tom Scharpling]

But there's just, like, a moment where I was just like, you know, Kevin Smith's not hurting anybody with these. He just makes movies I don't like.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, and I just finally, like, I'm gonna put that one down.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I'm gonna set that sword right.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

Or just like, why am I fighting a Guy who makes things. I. Why am I, like, turning him into, like, public Enemy number one?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Just because he makes movies that I don't like.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's pretty much.

[John Worster]

Oh, well.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think I'm just running out of energy, honestly, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think it's really running out of fucks to give kind of, you know, you gotta deepen the conversation at some point. Do you miss Jersey?

[Tom Scharpling]

Not. Not really. I went back a couple times and it was kind of rough because the things I. Things changed so much. Like, in five, six years, just things were gone.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Favorite record store, gone.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Love going to that diner, Gone. The places that were like, my. They were like, the backbone of. Because I had. The one thing I had in New Jersey that I still don't entirely have here is I knew where to go and what to do if I was like. Like feeling like if I was just in a bad place.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I knew where I could go to kind of get myself.

[Marc Maron]

Where is that?

[Tom Scharpling]

I would go to either go to Princeton and kind of walk around the town and the campus, or I go down to, like. Like Asbury Park.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Just like, I would just. There are places I could go that I knew were just like, I'll go hang out there for a few hours.

[John Worster]

Yeah. It.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like. It's good for me.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And I can kind of get my feet back on the ground. I still don't have that here yet. Like, I don't know where. Like.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that stuff's so deep in you.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, that's the thing is, like. It was like. Those are, like, neural pathways that are carved, and I don't have those here. But going back, a lot of the things had changed and it felt like we drove. We did a trip, me and my wife Julia, we drove from LA to New Jersey in May. We drove like, three and a half. Three and a half weeks on the road. We just took our time. Stopped at all different places for America, kind almost. Yeah. We were looking for things that were going to be gone in five years.

[Marc Maron]

What did you find?

[Tom Scharpling]

I. Some places I thought were absolutely. I was, like, so impressed by, like, Utah. Like, stuff in Utah. First of all, Utah is so beautiful. I couldn't believe how beautiful.

[Marc Maron]

I find Salt Lake City oddly comforting.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, I like Salt Lake City.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I loved, like, just being in the middle of nowhere there. We went in this, like, hot spring that was like, in a crater. It was like there was just so many.

[Marc Maron]

Like, was it full of hippies?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, it was a little bit of everybody. Like, it Was like. It was just like. It was like. It was better. It was so much.

[Marc Maron]

People actually bathing in it.

[Tom Scharpling]

Nobody's actually bathing. We had a bar of soap.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Floating. That was great. And. But then other things, when we just, like. We kind of went down. Because I love Tennessee so much.

[John Worster]

Beautiful.

[Tom Scharpling]

And like, Nashville, Memphis, those are my favorite cities.

[Marc Maron]

Great. And Nashville's changed a lot, but it's great.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. It's like. Well, Nashville, like, seeing that part of, like, the downtown in Nashville, it's like 9:30 in the morning. We're just, like, walking around and it's like 9:30 in the morning. And then, like, those pedal bikes go by where it's like, eight.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Women drunk guys and women pedaling and pounding. It's like. It's 9:30, guys. It's Thursday.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

9:30 on a Thursday. You guys are hammered.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And every one of the bars along the main drag, they pull like. Like the garage door thing. So. And there's music coming from everywhere, so it's really alive and it's exciting. But, yeah, it was just like. We stayed at the Peabody in Memphis.

[Marc Maron]

Had a big night at the Peabody. They still got the ducks.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

That's why I wanted to show Julia the ducks. And it was so much fun because they do this thing where the ducks live. They walk them into the fountain in the middle of the lobby, and then there's like, this guy, the duck master. He's the one who tells you about the history of the hotel. So I just wanted to say to him afterwards, like, hey, that was amazing, your presentation. You know, you're holding everyone's attention. It's really impressive. And we're, like, waiting for the ducks. We're waiting for this guy. He's talking to somebody else. And then there's a guy behind us, and he's wearing a T shirt that just says Gulf of America. And you're just like. Like, can you turn it off for one? Yeah, like. Like, look, have your dumb fucking views. I don't. Like, what am I gonna do about that? Yeah, but can you, like. Can you just, like, enjoy that you're somewhere nice right now? You have to, like, come into it ready to fight with your Billboard T shirt.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You know, like, it was, like, stuff like that where you're just like. You're like, this is just, like, a cheap way to have an identity. Like, it's a cheap way to be interesting.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, and you're just. Because you're just boring. You clearly have nothing else to talk about. And this was a Ready made.

[Marc Maron]

I think that's a good point. I think interesting's a diplomatic word.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it was just like, it was such a. And there was so much of that fronting. And I was just like. It started like we were away for. By that point, we're a couple weeks away, and you start to get a little squirrely being on the road that much. And you're just like, where else did you drive through? We went Arizona, up to Utah, Colorado, then, you know, all the way to Wisconsin and then down south, and then kind of South Carolina, swoop up to New Jersey. And finally getting to New Jersey, it really had the feeling of after seeing all of these towns.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

When you're driving on highways and then you pull off and it's just like Chili's, Applebee's.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yes, that.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Walmart and Walmart. And I'm just like, Well, I was like, look at all Bucky's. Yeah. Like, looking at all these places. But then, like, I got to New Jersey and it was the same place. It was the same thing. I was like, oh, my God, I lived in one of these.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I was just like, well, I don't live. Look, like, look at these saps with their.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

With their. Their strip malls and all things that. And then, like, I saw New Jersey as, like, a tourist.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And I was like, it was literally no different than anywhere else. We pulled off to just sleep at a Hampton Inn. I was like, I lived in one of those spots for other people. It just was. It was probably the most obvious thing. But it took me forever to realize.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, you go. I mean, like, I imagine looking for the things that were going to be gone, that if you get off the interstate, there was this idea, I remember, like, AAA Triptychs, you know, but, like, all of those smaller towns are just probably decimated, really. I mean, all the places that were smaller cities and smaller towns that had their own sort of economies and personality just got drained out. I mean, I mean, where do you even, you know, where do you even pull off to go? See?

[Tom Scharpling]

There was a place in Wisconsin, House on the Rock. Do you know what that is?

[Marc Maron]

Oh, yeah. I think Kit talks about it.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like, it's on the. One of the takeaways was that there were these maniacs in America who built huge, stupid things that no one asked them to do. And they saw their vision through to the finish line. Like House on the Rock with this guy in the rural Wisconsin, just on the side of a mountain. He's Just like, I want to build a cool house. And like, Frank Lloyd Wright told him, it's just like, I wouldn't hire you to design a dog house.

[Marc Maron]

Chip on his shoulder.

[Tom Scharpling]

So he builds this house in the side of a mountain. So you're touring it, and it's really impressive. And the guy's just like, in the 50s, he was like, well, I could charge people to tour it. I'd need to have a little bit more for it. So to show them. So he builds this museum down on, like, at the bottom of the mountain. That is like. It's like, just imagine. Well, what's the museum having? Everything you want to see a carousel. The world's biggest carousel you've ever seen. Here it is. You're just like, oh, my God, this carousel is amazing. Well, there's two more carousels. Like, it's like, he didn't know when to stop with things. Things. You don't need. 3. Like, you want to tell the guy it's like, one carousel.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that'll do it.

[Tom Scharpling]

Better than three carousels.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You go like, well, what about a room full of organs and pianos? He's just like, yeah, I'll do that. It's a room. There's 300 organs and pianos. And it's like you're touring through the things. Like, hey, you like doll houses? It's like, here's 300 doll houses, and you're just walking. Dude. You're just. It's. We were three hours. We were moving fast through it at a point. We're just like, we gotta. We'll be here. Like, they'll lock us in.

[Marc Maron]

But just that in and of itself is something.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was three hours, and we're just. We're, like, hauling ass for this thing. And it was three hours. Yeah. And you're just like, this is like, what you can do in America if you're a crazy person who doesn't take no for an answer.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And in its weird way, it's like, that's. That's kind of where I've lived in terms of. Just like, I was not. I didn't get a. A job that was like, yeah. With any stability.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Or anything. Anybody giving me any sort of, like, guidance as a boss that this is what you do. And everything was just like, yeah, I'm on my own here with this, and I'm figuring it out. And if. If something's not working, then I don't eat now.

[Marc Maron]

Right.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'm the same way. And I guess it is similar in spirit that you know, that. And I think that I guess still holds up in some weird way that here you can kind of do whatever you set your mind to. It might not work. It might not work, but you can certainly give it a go.

[Tom Scharpling]

Absolutely. And the crazy thing is, like, we went to, like, Was it Nebraska? I forget where it was. It was like, there was this museum. This guy had the warp. It's called the, like, the Warp Family music in the middle of nowhere.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And he just collected. Like, you walk in, it's just like, oh, there's a Model T. And there's like. There's, like, the planes that didn't fly that people tried to, like, you know, like, you see from old.

[Marc Maron]

The old footage.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it's every kind of car. It's every kind of everything. Suddenly it's like, here's cell phones throughout history. It's like a car phone from the 70s.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, it's just like, they go from being. There's a point if you collect stuff.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's almost like that dip. Like, the low point is you're an insane person with too much stuff. And it's like, if you just punch through, then you can be a museum owner. Like. Like, then you're. Then you're just like, oh, it's valid. Right?

[John Worster]

Right.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, people are like, stop collecting this stuff. What are you doing with all these microwave ovens? From, like, what are you doing? Why are you collecting this? And this guy just keeps going. He's like, hey, now I'm a museum.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Now it's curated hoarding.

[Tom Scharpling]

It really is. Hoarding masquerading as history.

[Marc Maron]

Where are all your records, dude?

[Tom Scharpling]

They're here still. Some in New Jersey. I gotta get it. I gotta get them that squared away.

[John Worster]

They're at the house.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, it's fine. I have so many records that it's just like.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever think about, like, I gotta get rid of them. No, I can't.

[Tom Scharpling]

They're my friends. They tell me who I am. Like, when I.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever go through it and go like, oh, I forgot I was this guy?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

There's times where you're just like, wow. I really was trying to like that for a while.

[Marc Maron]

I have nine records.

[Tom Scharpling]

I see it, and I'm just like, if I was more confident, yeah, I would have one of them.

[John Worster]

Yes.

[Tom Scharpling]

But I was just like, I don't get it yet. Yeah, I know. I'm gonna chase. I'm gonna keep chasing this thing.

[Marc Maron]

I get them all at once. If I. If you hear one song, I'M like, I gotta know more about this guy. And then they have nine of their.

[Tom Scharpling]

Records and then I start getting like, well, I need to listen to them in order.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I need to follow their artistic journey.

[Marc Maron]

And still nothing.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, still just like, I don't get it. And then I'm just like, I think I'll just listen to Loaded again. For the 9 billion.

[Marc Maron]

Which bands do you not get?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[John Worster]

Who?

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, that I don't get.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I mean, because like, I know, like, you know, I've gone back and forth with you on Destroyer and I'm getting. I'm going to try again soon.

[Tom Scharpling]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, look, I talked to Nico Case and by all indications, that guy, what's his name?

[Tom Scharpling]

Dan.

[Marc Maron]

You talked to him?

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, Dan Behar. Yeah. He's a nice guy.

[Marc Maron]

He's a thing.

[John Worster]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

And I just can't lock in.

[Tom Scharpling]

In a different era, he would be Neil Young or Bob Dylan. Like, if a different kind of music was popular, he would be huge because he's just. It just pours out of the guy.

[Marc Maron]

The funny thing is when people like you, like him and you know, there's certain people that I respect who like somebody and I can't wrap my brain around it or get it. I end up resenting them.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, I understand that feeling too. I resent everybody. It's like, what do you think? You're so good. You get it?

[Marc Maron]

So not you, but him. It's sort of like you're not getting through to me. So what does that mean for you?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, you think you're.

[Marc Maron]

You think you're all that.

[John Worster]

I don't get it. No.

[Tom Scharpling]

I don't understand what you're doing. The one thing I wish.

[Marc Maron]

I'm a pretty smart guy.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I'm smart and I don't care. I really wish I could that like jazz that I could with like, that I could love it with all of my heart.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like I don't have like a pure, both hands on it connection to jazz.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you're lucky because that's another 10,000 records.

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, I know, I know that. And I just like, as a somebody who likes buying things, I would just be like, why am I being denied this?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you'd be in trouble.

[Tom Scharpling]

Buy all this stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Never, never ending jazz hole.

[Tom Scharpling]

And yeah, I just like, I like it. I like what I listen to and I like the right people with it. But in terms of just like that thing where it's just like, it's. It's like healing me.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I don't. I don't get that deep with it.

[Marc Maron]

I think I could, but, like, I think I have enough, you know, and some of it, you know, I. I kind of It. I think your brain has to walk into a meditative state with it. Like, you know, like, you can sit there and listen to all the nuances, but, like, jazz kind of can just be. And it has an effect.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And one of the things I. That I wish I could, like, prove. But as I think so much of what made, like, John Coltrane.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Work. Like, people. Like, you read accounts. Like, people would go see him at, like, the Village Underground and stuff.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And they were like. It was the loudest thing I had ever heard. Like, the. Like, the force of it gets lost in with time and with that. Oh, we only have this album of it, but when people were in the club with it, it was like an assault on them.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, the. We. We were only getting, like, a fraction of the power.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Of him.

[Marc Maron]

Right. I think that's probably true with a lot of bands I like. You know, I. I've had recent kind of catharsis with Alice Coltrane.

[John Worster]

Oh, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I can listen to that stuff and be like, what is. It's otherworldly.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, I love Alice Coltrane. There was a. Did you go to that exhibit that was. There was an exhibit last year of just, like, her archives.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, really?

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

She's something really like, a real. What an. Like, isn't it amazing that there can be a John Coltrane.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And then there's an Alice Coltrane and, like, that these forces of nature bond.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And like. Like, how is that even possible for these things to be like. Like, you're. You're like us. Like, you're like a sun and you're a sun, and you're like. You're. You're the. Everything's orbiting around both of you, but you're like.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Together, unite somehow. It's like. It's like. That's like earth changing.

[Marc Maron]

Does that still happen? You mean, sun's joining? I mean, would we know it?

[Tom Scharpling]

I don't know if we'd know it. I think maybe time has to pass when you also. To realize what was actually happening.

[Marc Maron]

I just, like. I've gotten kind of, like, interested in, like, the group theater, you know, where it's like. It seems like during the 30s that there were these groups of, like, you know, intellectuals and artists that would all hang out together and they changed the course of understanding philosophers.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know if that happens anymore. Maybe it happens on Zoom.

[Tom Scharpling]

Somebody needs to move to Austin. You're right.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't think about it.

[Tom Scharpling]

I just sit at the Algonquin round table down there at the mothership.

[Marc Maron]

Mothership in the second green room.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

But it also feels like just people have had enough of that, and it really just does feel like people are feeling like they have a voice to just go like, yeah, you know what? I'm tired. You guys had a good run, but I'm tired of it.

[Marc Maron]

I was hoping that voice would be louder, and I think it's what compelled me to be part of it, to.

[Tom Scharpling]

Be part of it. And that just gives people permission to join in on it.

[Marc Maron]

I just wanted comics to relax, for Christ's sake.

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, the thing is, it's just like, none of this would be happening if they just said, well, my number one priority is to be funny.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

None of this would happen.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Anytime comedy gets off target, it's because somebody's trying to be cool.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Or they're trying to be smart.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

They're. They're not trying to be funny. Like, they've lost the mission statement.

[Marc Maron]

Or you can try to do both, but.

[Tom Scharpling]

But you have to major in being funny. Like, you can.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You can be cool.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It's like, look, Anthony Jeslin, like, I think, is cool.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

But he's. He's there to be funny.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

He's not there to be cool. First. Funny.

[Marc Maron]

Second.

[John Worster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, and that's the thing. It's like, how did they lose?

[Marc Maron]

I don't know.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was like. It's a very basic agreement.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah. Which is like, you're here to be funny.

[Marc Maron]

I'm blessed with the ability to never think I'm cool. And then, you know, and then I try really hard, and I've failed a lot of times, but I think in the last special, I might have been a little cooler.

[Tom Scharpling]

Your journey is well documented, but you're the one documenting it. Like, you're not hiding from, like, you were searching for a thing when your thing clicked. It clicked.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And it's like, it actually, I feel like people can look at these stories and realize you don't get to say when it clicks, but if you keep trying, maybe it will come.

[Marc Maron]

Maybe it will. And you, sir, were a big part of it, both on an inspirational level, on a guest level, on a friendship level. And I always appreciate seeing you and your input and hanging out like this.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, it's really been. It's been great. To have you as a friend for as long as we've been friends. And it started in such a. I can remember because I would go see you with Largo, talked about this new lounge. But then, like, the moment it was at Yola Tango, doing their Hanukkah shows at Maxwell's in Hoboken. I can literally picture by the payphone between dividing the restaurant and the club.

[Marc Maron]

In the hallway there.

[Tom Scharpling]

In the hallway, and you were performing. And I'm finally. Mark's here.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

We're kind of circling each other now. This. Let's get. Let's see what this is going to be. It's like, hey, how's it going? It's like, huh, huh. Looks just like this. Like, huh. Okay.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And finally, it's like, I think I'm all right with that guy. Like, I came where it's like, okay, that went well. And then. And then it just kind of grew from there. But there was that initial, like, kind of, like sizing up, like, huh, okay. Yeah. What are you.

[John Worster]

Yeah, okay.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, that's you and I'm me. And I'm like, where are we going with this?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I was probably just freaking out about performing at that fucking thing.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, that. But really, it's. You know, I. The thing that I've always felt separated you from a lot of the stuff that I related to was you talked into microphones on the radio, and that just. It just puts you in a whole different mindset for any of this.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, there's a certain. You talk a different way after you've done. After you log hours on the radio.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You just approach this differently. And there's only a few people who came into this radio first.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that's why I think I always had, like, an affinity and respect for that. Like, you put the hours in on Air America and all that stuff, the break room, and you're just grinding it out when no one was asking for it, necessarily, because nobody knew what these things were.

[Marc Maron]

I know if we did break room now, I mean, they might even have an audience, me and Cedar. But we should just.

[Tom Scharpling]

That would be the greatest. If you two got. It should be like, the Sunshine Boys.

[Marc Maron]

We should do the Sunshine.

[Tom Scharpling]

You should do the Sunshine Boys. You and Sam Cedar, that. That's the culmination of all of it. Marc Maron, Sam Seder, essentially.

[Marc Maron]

It's such a funny but real tension to him and I.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, that's the whole thing. It is like. It seemed like he really didn't know what to do when you Started to succeed. Like, this was not supposed to happen. It's like, this is like a glitch in the Matrix. Mark's getting popular. No, like, this isn't supposed to. He was supposed to go. I was supposed to go up, and he was supposed to go down.

[Marc Maron]

It's made our dynamic kind of more funny because it's almost, like, on the verge of crying so. Well, because he can't get the same, you know, edge on me.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, he just. Yeah, like, he lost. It's like he lost the ability to, like, the knockout blow. Yeah, like, he just can't. It's just. Now you're just punching each other, but nobody ever loses the fight.

[John Worster]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tom Scharpling]

Constantly punching each other.

[Marc Maron]

Exactly.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

No, but really, it has been, like, just getting to be a part of the thing. And, you know, I always looked at my thing as being like, I just want to be on the continuum with it. It's just like. Yeah, I was obviously, I was influenced by a hundred people before it, and if anybody took inspiration or whatever from what I did, that's just. That's the gift. Like, when people are like, you stole that. It's like, well, I fucking stole stuff from people. Somebody could accuse me of stealing stuff from people before me. I was like, you know, you're just on the continuum.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, that's right.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that's a good way to look at it. And that's everything I've ever asked for, is to get to be like, when you look at the timeline of all of it, I'm like, a dot on the timeline.

[Marc Maron]

We're on the continuum. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that's like, the funny thing about.

[Marc Maron]

Me is that I did not, like, in doing radio, I had no heroes. I did not, you know, And I don't really listen to much now. Obviously, we have comedy heroes, but for me, on these mics, it was all. It's better because I didn't know how to do it. And you don't know why you're compelling on these mics. There were things I learned along the way, but it was not based on anybody. I never listened to Stern.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I never listened to Ira that much. Or Ira's hero. What's that guy's name? Joe Frank or Joe Frank.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I didn't really listen. You know, I didn't have a source.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And I think it helped me.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, I agree. Look, I did listen to Howard Stern when I was in high school, and. And it just. It was an influence at a point. But as soon as he got, like, when he leveled Up. I immediately lost interest in it. Like, I liked him as this underdog who was like, why doesn't people respect me? Why don't. Like, that's the stuff I ate up. But then as soon as he was like, oh, he is number one, I was just like, well, I. This has no. This does not fit what I want from anything.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I don't. I don't want to hear, like, winners talk about winning.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like, I don't care about. I want to hear somebody talk about the struggle.

[Marc Maron]

I think the thing I learned from you. And also, oddly, Rush Limbaugh, you know, who I'd listen to in bits and pieces when people told me about the idea of holding silence.

[John Worster]

That's. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And that is. That was the biggest lesson I learned.

[Tom Scharpling]

That was. I can even tell you where I was influenced by that. It's funny, because that actually is one of the things that scares people the most. Like, when I'll just be, like, telling something, and then I just, like, I'm not scared of that moment. And you realize it's actually your friend because you're in control of the thing now.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

It was. Dave Eggers wrote in that memoir he did. Heartbreaking.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Something, something, something.

[Tom Scharpling]

He just talked about, I think, and I only read it once, so I just. How his father. And I'm probably getting it really wrong. Just encouraged to get the uhs and the ums and the likes out of your vocabulary. It's just like, just slow down. Rather than go, uh, yeah. Just be quiet for a second. You can. It's the same thing, but it sounds a lot better.

[Marc Maron]

Sam's really. Cesar's great at the uh's. He's a big uh.

[Tom Scharpling]

Well, when you do the. What you're doing is you're not allowing the other person to talk. You're. You're saying, like, I'm still going. I'm still going.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Like you.

[Marc Maron]

I do.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

I'll. I hear myself go. Like, when I did it, probably did it 12 times.

[Marc Maron]

I know. I do it, too.

[Tom Scharpling]

You're talking then go, huh?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Just so, like, I'm still here.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Just. I'm supporting you.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I'm still not great at that stuff. I go up and down with it. But, like, knowing that you do hold the space, especially with somebody else, it's a big deal. And I'm not great at it, but I can do it.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And that's. You just grow into it. And it's just like, you're not scared of the stuff.

[John Worster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Do you think you're gonna miss. What part of this do you think you'll miss?

[Marc Maron]

Well, just like, you know, before you came over, I was like, this is not a good day. And my fear is that's going to be a lot of days and there's not anyone. Coming up for.

[Tom Scharpling]

Hey, guys, it's the new wtf. We're back. Brendan's not here, but meet Keith, my new guy.

[Marc Maron]

I just don't think I could do it. I think that. But most of that is ego that it's really come down to, who else can we talk to? And obviously you can keep talking. And I imagine I could keep talking in some form or another. And a month or so ago, I was more sort of like, yeah, I'll probably show up somewhere just for the. People can hear me talk. And that's starting to fade a little bit. But I don't really know. I mean, what I'll miss is that excitement and dread and anxiety of meeting new people, coming over and locking into this, because it does get me out of myself and it does, you know, kind of provide me a social life, you know. But everything that my experience, all my experience with this thing are these conversations. Because after I do it, it's out of my hands.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

So it's all very kind of real life for me. And that's going to be a big change. I mean, even, you know, now that we only have a few slots left and we don't have to. To do a backlog. I've had a lot of free time in the last couple weeks. And I'm like, I'm watching the Sopranos again and I'm eating and I'm practicing guitar and I'm sort of like, is this it? Is this it? But I spent half my life like that.

[Tom Scharpling]

But that's exactly. And also you have a. There's a certain creativity in you and energy for that. And you do have the. Not the luxury. You've earned it. There are multiple places you can put that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I think so. I'm curious to see what that is and where that goes.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think that's. That's exciting.

[Marc Maron]

I'll probably end up over there with you at Forever Dog. Just like Marin's come in. I think this week he doesn't really have a plan. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Marin's got the studio from 4 to 7. He doesn't know. He just. He just. He doesn't even the lights on.

[Marc Maron]

He's waiting for something to happen.

[Tom Scharpling]

Sitting in there in the dark. He's pretending he's doing an interview, but there's nobody else in there.

[Marc Maron]

We're just gonna let him do it because no one had it booked.

[Tom Scharpling]

He thinks he's talking to.

[Marc Maron]

He said Brad Pit was coming.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

He's not Brad Pitt.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't, I hope I don't become that guy. No. It's just going to be a battle against whatever my brain does alone, you know, which has always been difficult. But maybe, you know, it's time to sit in it after all I've done.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

Now one, one other final thing is like, I feel like for some people, the introduction of podcasting into the comedy world has been a huge, hugely bad for. For their. Like. It is. It has diminished the idea of like, the value of what you say and also of anonymity.

[Marc Maron]

Of like, surprise.

[John Worster]

Yes. Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

You know everybody too well.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

And. And the idea used to be every two years, here's one hour of me talking every two years. And suddenly now it's like in one week, here's 10 hours of me talking and you're just like, well, the value of talking for that person is just plummeted. What do you think not podcasting is going to do for you as a stand up?

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know.

[Tom Scharpling]

Change that.

[Marc Maron]

Well, my fear is that like, you know, will I still, you know, have the crowd while I still have the audience, but, you know, I can stay engaged with Instagram to a certain degree. But I don't know, man, because a lot of times in the beginning of the show, like, I'm, I'm just improvising and things come up and they end up things I work on in my stand up and. And you know, there was a. An evolution of material that happened in those intros. So I don't know. I mean, I gonna have to stay engaged with you and Lipsight and Jerry. Like, I do need an audience, but. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it'll be like it used to be where I have to nervously go on stage with stuff that I thought of over the last week and just, you know, find the balls to get it out there.

[Tom Scharpling]

I think something good will come out of it. And the other thing is you just do a different thing if you really miss this.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Tom Scharpling]

There's different forms you can take.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I'll be all right. I'll be all right. I'll let you know if I'm not.

[Tom Scharpling]

No. Well, I'm sure I'll know before you say you're really. Yeah, Mark let me know he's not doing well.

[Marc Maron]

It's like he's gonna be on the show again. Just be nice to him.

[Tom Scharpling]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

I'll be showing up on your show.

[Tom Scharpling]

Once or twice a month. Hey, man, what's up? Let's just talk about some. Yeah, yeah. We're kind of busy today.

[John Worster]

This week.

[Tom Scharpling]

Mark. No, no, no, no, no. Fine.

[John Worster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Mark's been waiting outside in his car for two hours.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, he's calling in now.

[Marc Maron]

I can do. I can do characters like John.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yeah, we got Mark from Los Angeles. What do you got?

[Marc Maron]

All right, buddy. Well, I love you, man.

[Tom Scharpling]

I love you, too. And this is great. And thank you for. You've always been very generous with the platform, and I appreciate it.

[Marc Maron]

I appreciate you. Now that's it. That's the last word from either of us.

[Tom Scharpling]

Yes.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Me and Tom. Last talk on this show. Touching. It's all heavy. Again, the best show, 25th anniversary shows are coming to Brooklyn, Philly, Chicago and LA in October. Go to thebestshow.net for dates and tickets. Hang out for a minute, folks. People. Ten years ago this week, I had a long chat with the very funny Fred armisen. It's episode 636, and it's available for free on whatever podcast app you're using. Just search. Wtf. Fred Armisen. They bring me into audition, and I went at ucb, went up and did my. The original used to be with the shitty. The weird seats. Yes. But you walked in and you kind of had to walk by the stage. Like, when you walked in, the stage was on the right and you had to make. That's the one.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, so who else is on the night? So this is where your audition is going to be.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And everyone else who auditioned was groups, like improv groups. Interesting. And then I went up and I did that. And then a while later, maybe a month later, two months later, they asked me to come back and do it at the studio.

[Tom Scharpling]

Oh, right.

[Marc Maron]

Camera condition.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

They flew me to. And I was already, like, in heaven. I was like, I can't believe this is happening. It was just for Marcy at ucb or Lauren came. Oh, Lauren came. Tina Fey came to. She was the head writer.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[John Worster]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And then she was head writer. There was a couple head writers at the time. And then when I met Lauren, I was like. I was like, you. You knew George Harrison? You said that to him at ucb? Yeah. And then I asked him. And then. This is a very typical Lauren thing to say, but I asked. I was like, just this conversation like, so are you seeing a lot of people, meaning, you know, auditioners? And he answered no, which is a very honest like, you know, you would think the answer would be like, oh, yeah. But he was very like, no, we are not. So when you said you knew George Harrison, you sort of approached him with an intensity and a sort of left field question, because it was what was compelling to you? Did he, how did he respond to that? Yeah, I mean, can you imagine someone who knew George Harrison? That's episode 636 with Fred Armisen, available now for free wherever you're listening to this show. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by acast. Here's a little George Jones without the singing Boomer lives Monkey and lafonda Cat Angels everywhere.