Hood vs Bismarck: Passage (Part 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
Episode: Hood vs Bismarck: Passage (Part 2)
Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts: Al Murray (A) & James Holland (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the dramatic recounting of the legendary pursuit of the German battleship Bismarck by the Royal Navy in May 1941. Al and James pick up the narrative as Bismarck and her consort Prinz Eugen attempt to break out into the Atlantic, revealing the chaotic, often fatalistic mindset within the German command, and contrasting it with the steely professionalism—and mythic tradition—of the Royal Navy as it prepares for one of the most famous naval actions of World War II.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Grand Admiral Raeder’s Dilemma and Kriegsmarine Strategy

• The episode opens with a passage from Grand Admiral Erich Raeder, reflecting on the decision to send Bismarck alone rather than as part of a larger fleet.
  • Quote: "The risk attached to the undertaking was thus greatly increased...if we decided to wait...it might well mean that the new battleship would never operate in the Atlantic at all." [01:17]
• Hosts’ Analysis:
  • Al: "It's the devil in the deep blue sea, isn't it?" [02:57]
  • The Germans face mounting pressure: delay risks losing their asset entirely, but going now means high risk and no clear strategy.
  • Bismarck’s deployment is not a confident power play but an act of resignation—trying to do something before being outpaced by events, like the upcoming Operation Barbarossa.

Leadership Styles: The Royal Navy vs. Kriegsmarine

• Contrast between German fatalism and British confidence:
  • James: "Just think about what we're talking about here. They leave port on the 18th of May..." [05:43]
  • Al: "They don't have a strategy because they haven't got the means to deliver the strategy they had two years ago." [06:01]
  • The Germans, lacking resources, revert to tactical improvisation, while the Royal Navy relies on deep experience and institutional memory—even invoking Nelson as a spiritual guide.
• Hitler’s Interference:
  • "Raeder doesn't tell Hitler when he's launching Rheinübung because he doesn't want Hitler interfering." [05:07]
  • Hitler is portrayed as vacillating—aggressive one moment, anxious the next—prompting the Kriegsmarine to act semi-autonomously.

The Bismarck’s Initial Sortie and Intelligence War

• The passage through confined Danish straits means the Germans cannot hide their movements; Swedish neutrals and Norwegian resistance quickly spot them, and coded messages tip off the Allies about major warships underway.
  • Memorable quote on Norwegian observer Axelson’s code: "Is it, you know, two large Cornish pasties have been ordered from Greggs..." [11:50]

Admiral Tovey and the British Response

• Portrait of Admiral John Tovey:
  • Unflappable, confident, deeply experienced—"the complete package". [13:38–15:45]
  • James: "He's got confidence pouring out of him, transmits confidence to everybody. Which I think is quite important to the senior commander." [14:17]
  • The Royal Navy’s top leadership rose via 'Imperial Defence College' and wide sea experience, unlike many army contemporaries.
• Massive British mobilisation:
  • KGV, Prince of Wales, Hood, and Victorious (plus escorts, trawlers, cruisers) all move to intercept.
  • Quote: "They're all primed for this. They know the drill. Literally moment you press the go button...it all starts to kick into gear in pretty quick order." [19:10–20:08]

Tactical Blunders and Missed Opportunities

• German indecision:
  • Lütjens takes Bismarck into Norwegian fjords, refuels Prinz Eugen but inexplicably not Bismarck, delays, then sets out again—vaguely hoping for cancellation or a clearer break.
  • Al, exasperated: "Why hasn't he gone through the Kiel Canal and the North Sea? Why, why dither in this way?" [20:53; 21:03]
• British command and weather issues:
  • British recce planes spot Bismarck in Bergen, but communication delays, contradictory orders, and terrible weather hinder both sides.
  • Coastal Command’s bold long-range reconnaissance (with pilots like Rotherham and Goddard braving appalling conditions):
    • "Twice they fly to under 100ft but still can't see the sea...there’s a gap in the cloud that appears at the key moment..." [34:22–34:37]
  • Tovey dispatches forces into the Atlantic gaps despite not knowing Bismarck's exact location due to weather and comms blackouts.
  • The sheer vastness and danger of the North Atlantic loom large ("It's absolutely gigantic...you might see 15 miles or nothing in mist" [26:19–26:39]).

The Pursuit Tightens: Denmark Strait

• German confusion about route—north or south of Iceland—but eventually aiming for Denmark Strait, missing more refuelling opportunities.
• British cruisers Suffolk and Norfolk patrol the area:
  • James, quoting Ludovic Kennedy: "One saw nothing but an agony of water, gray, green or blue, black spume tossed, marble streaked..." [45:11]
  • Suffolk’s advanced radar gives them a chance as "eyes" of the fleet.
  • Vivid episode:
    • 7:15pm, 23 May: Abel Seaman Newell aboard Suffolk spots the Bismarck: "It’s the Bismarck. Black, massive, emerging from a patch of mist on the starboard quarter not more than seven miles away." [49:05–49:20]
  • Suffolk and Norfolk shadow the Germans—by strict order, not engaging, just reporting and waiting for the "big boys" (Hood, Prince of Wales) to arrive.

The Tension Peaks

• Chase begins:
  • After briefly exchanging warning shots, the British cruisers lose and regain contact in the fog, extreme weather still complicating both sides.
  • Bismarck's first shots are a miss, but the sighting is now confirmed, and signals alert the British fleet.
  • Al, on the context: "This building is being padded by Nelson whirring in his grave right now." [50:09]
• The episode closes with anticipation: Hood and the mighty British fleet are bearing down, but even the hosts cannot help but foreshadow the tragedy of the Hood in the imminent clash.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Al Murray (on Kriegsmarine strategy):
  "It's the devil in the deep blue sea, isn't it? ... If you don't really have a strategy, you'll never settle on your tactics, right?" [02:56]

• James Holland (on Raeder & Lütjens):
  "They don't think there's a huge chance of getting through this. Which is different to the way the army's feeling about Barbarossa..." [07:04]

• James, on Arctic naval operations:
  "[Quoting Ludovic Kennedy:] One saw nothing but an agony of water, gray, green or blue, black spume tossed... heard nothing but the thunder of the seas..." [45:11]

• Al, humorously evoking British spirit:
  "On the bridge of Norfolk they can see the ripple of orange, brown puffs of smoke..." [50:47]

• On naval tradition:
  "He wants to be Nelson, because they all do." [24:51]

• On historic weather and the fog of war:
  "On a clear day you've got visibility of 15 miles...on a misty day it might be nothing." [26:19–26:39]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:17 – Raeder’s strategic dilemma; why Bismarck must leave now
• 05:07 – Hitler kept in the dark about Bismarck’s mission
• 09:00–12:00 – Norwegian resistance and coded signals tip British off (Axelson and chain of communication)
• 13:30–15:45 – Portrait of Admiral Tovey and Royal Navy command pathways
• 19:10–20:08 – Full British response, orders, fleet disposition
• 21:03 – Bismarck in Bergen; error not refuelling
• 34:09–35:12 – Daring British reconnaissance to Bergen in dreadful weather
• 41:23–43:06 – Bismarck’s dangerous run through the Denmark Straits; lurking fog and ice
• 45:11 – Atmospheric reading from Ludovic Kennedy’s account
• 47:22–48:47 – Suffolk and Norfolk begin their crucial shadowing of Bismarck
• 49:05 – Sighting of Bismarck: "Two ships bearing green 140!"
• 50:09–51:36 – Brief naval skirmish; first shots fired; signals go out—“the chase is on”
• 52:14–52:36 – Teasing the next episode: The Hood prepares for battle

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Tone and Style

• The episode is lively, witty, and full of historical asides—blending expert analysis with the hosts’ signature humor.
• The interplay between Al and James brings levity to the complex historical narrative (e.g., British as Nelson-obsessed, German characters named in classic style, teasing about pasty-based naval codes).
• There’s a palpable sense of anticipation building toward the famous battle-to-come, with repeated invocations of naval tradition, the randomness of war, and the fog (literal and metaphorical) that shrouded the Bismarck saga.

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Final Thoughts

For listeners new to the story:
This episode lays out the confusion and drama that led to the epic clash between Bismarck and the Royal Navy, highlighting both the human indecision and the institutional determination that defined the opening moves of the Atlantic chase. As the British cruisers sight the Bismarck and the fleet rushes to intercept, the stage is set for a momentous battle in the next episode.

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Memorable last lines:

• Al: “We’re going to get to know the mighty Hood, while we still can...” [52:36]
• James: “Maybe he [Jim] never will [accept what happens to Hood].” [52:36]

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Next episode teaser:
Delve deeper into the fate of the Hood and the ultimate showdown with Bismarck.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Visit blinds.com now for up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus a free professional measure. Rules and restrictions apply. The decision to send out to Bismarck in the circumstances was a very difficult one for me, particularly as the conditions prevailing when Naval Operations Command at first plan the operation had considerably changed. The Bismarck undertaking, which had at first been planned as part of a larger operation, had now been reduced to a single individual operation. This meant that the enemy might have an opportunity to concentrate all their available fighting strength against one single grouper. The risk attached to the undertaking was thus greatly increased. Against this, however, the general situation brought no hesitation or economy in the use of such a powerful unit. If we decided to delay the operation until the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were ready for action once again, it might well mean that the new battleship would never operate in the Atlantic at all. The Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau were being subjected to constant air attack in French harbors, and there was no certainty of reaching a point at which there was both three ready for action again. Alternatively, if we decided to wait until the battleship Tirpitz was ready. This would mean a delay of at least six months. Six months in which a Bismarck would be ideal but not the enemy. Six months in which the situation in the Atlantic might get to deteriorate through the ncls, the United States, into the war against us. That was, of course, Grand Admiral Eric Rader.

[B]

There's a bit to chew on there.

[A]

I mean, it's the devil in the deep blue sea, isn't it? Basically. Basically they're on the pot and he's deciding whether to do his number one, isn't he? Number two. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Welcome to. We have ways to make you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland with many mixed metaphors there. Yeah, as we.

[B]

Look, that's quite the metaphor to open episode two of this epic Hood and Bismarck series.

[A]

Yes, the Hood and the Bismarck.

[B]

I mean, I just think that's a remarkable passage.

[A]

Well, it just shows that they're not.

[B]

Feeling quite so superior now, are they? In the Kriegsmarine? I mean, you know, for all the confidence of the Blitzkrieg and, you know, know. Yeah, we'll hammer them with our Stukas and our.

[A]

But it also shows if you don't really have a strategy, you'll never settle on your tactics. Right? They don't have a strategy. The Kriegsmarina. They, they.

[B]

Because, well, they have got a strategy. But it, but, but it was interrupted by Hitler declaring war in 1939.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So the whole strategy is in tatters.

[A]

You can't have a strategy if you don't have the means to deliver it.

[B]

They don't have no wiggle room, is there?

[A]

Yeah, they don't have the means to deliver the strategy. So they don't have a strategy. So now he's basically reduced to tactical management rather than. Is this the right thing to do? He's also caught in that thing of we've got to do something.

[B]

We've got a battleship.

[A]

We might as well.

[B]

We have a battleship.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But it's also, but it's also. I mean, action this day is very often, you know, it's the thing Churchill is saying a lot. This is the problem with action this day, without actually clear thinking at all. And sail her back up the Kilkenau and break her up for scrap would be my advice. And use the steel submarines.

[B]

I mean, it is amazing, isn't it? And that pre war decision to focus on surface vessels, you know, it's already in tatters. And you can see, can't you, why Admiral Lutyens, when he takes on Grijnubung the operation to go into the Atlantic. Maraud in the Atlantic. You can see why he's fatalistic about this. Because really, if you're betting man, the odds are against you, aren't they? Against the might of the Royal Navy and Raider.

[A]

Just, you know, we need to get her out now because later it might be worse. Okay, so it is going to be worse later.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But is now any good?

[B]

Yeah, well, quite. I mean, the other thing is, is that Raeder doesn't tell Hitler when he's launching Reinuben because he doesn't want Hitler interfering.

[A]

Well, and Hitler's interference will probably result in not deploying Bismarck. Right.

[B]

Because far from being the kind of sort of aggressive gambler, he's also the prevaricator and faffer.

[A]

Well, he's a sort of chicken hawk, isn't he? One minute he's talking aggression, the next minute, oh, please don't break my battleship. This is what characterizes how the Kriegsmarine, in the end, feeds its premium asset as it sees it into the hands of the Royal Navy.

[B]

Well, and also, just think about what we're talking about here. They leave port on the 18th of May, okay? And here they are. You know, they've, as we recounted the last episode, you know, they've begun their passage through the Baltic Sea. Why are they going for the Baltic Sea rather than the Keel Canal, straight into the North Sea, for example? I mean, just makes no sense whatsoever.

[A]

Again, they have no strategy because they haven't got the means to deliver the strategy they had two years ago.

[B]

And so also because they're just thinking, whatever. Yeah, a bit.

[A]

Let's go. Where should we go?

[B]

Let's go. And also just think what else is happening. You know, we're a month away from Barbarossa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The largest military operation the world has ever seen.

[A]

That is a really good point. The timing is a really good point because the Kriegsmarina, he knows there's a bigger show that's going to get all the headlines, doesn't he? Raider. So he's thinking, well, we've got to roll our dice now because otherwise no one's going to be interested.

[B]

There's a bit of that going on.

[A]

That has to be a fact. He's thinking he's got to shoot. He's basically saying, we have a bolt to shoot. We will have shot our bolt by the time this is over. But we have to shoot the bolt now because otherwise it's going to disappear in the, in the tumult of the summer.

[B]

But you really get the impression from this, or at least I do from Raider in this piece here and from Lutchins and what he says, that they don't think there's a huge chance of getting through this.

[A]

Which is different to the way the army's feeling about Barbarossa. So yeah, the army thinks. The army thinks. Was convinced. Convinced itself. It's going to be a walk in the park. Although of course, as we.

[B]

We saw from General Paulus.

[A]

Well, it's. Well we saw a couple of years ago where, where they, you know, they ran a. They lose. They rerun the war game in order to win Barbarossa.

[B]

So I mean. Oh my God, every time I think about that, it's so mad, it's bonkers.

[A]

But this is the point. The Kriegsmarinen, they need a result right now, don't they? And so even though they think that this might not work out, they need to do something because they need to be part of the war machine. The hype too much.

[B]

And they may well be thinking, actually we probably Doneitz was right and we probably do need more U boats. But they haven't got any.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what do you do? Yeah, and at least Gneisenau and Scharnhorst got. Did you know they did sink 116,000 tons as you pointed out. Not that much in the big scheme of things.

[A]

But there's the business of a dry dock with an unexploded bomb in it, isn't there? And all this sort of stuff. So in our last episode she'd set sail. Good hunting and a good bag.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Captain Denham had spotted. Reported back.

[A]

Yes, some binoculars involved. Somewhere along the line someone. Oh, hang on a minute. Is that the. Yes, it is by goodness.

[B]

It's the Bismarck.

[A]

It's the Bismarck. Well, I'm not sure we can say that for certain, but it's certainly a jolly big battleship. We must let London know. The Admiralty must know this forthwith. I mean it's, it's all there, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most secret, most immediate.

[A]

Yeah, wonderful.

[B]

Bismarck excited.

[A]

The drama that's to play out no one at the Admiralty could have predicted. And that's. That's what's amazing about this film.

[B]

It is, it is, it is. And for an amazing story and for.

[A]

All of Raeder and Luttin's fatalism, none of this is fated. The sea Kampfgruppa are off. Together they go through the Fehrman Belt. Yes, they're skirting the eastern edge of the Kiel Bay joined by another destroyer, then through the great belt dividing Denmark.

[B]

Now this is really narrow passage. I mean, you know, this is an absolute network. This is one of Germany's big, big problems. It's got this tiny stretch of the North Sea to the other side of the Denmark peninsula, you know, Schleswig Holstein. And then on the other side, on the eastern side, you've got a longer coastline, but it's all tied up in the network of the Baltic Sea, which is a series of islands and really narrow channels. And between southern Sweden and Norway and Denmark, it's.

[A]

There's no going anywhere without letting everyone know what you're up to.

[B]

Precisely. That's my point.

[A]

So on 4am on the 20th of May, they get a signal that no British air reconnaissance has left Scapa Flow yet because of cloud. So they think they've got a. They've got. Basically they've got, they've got away with it. At dawn of the 20th, they come to a calm and empty North. North Sea.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In order to get this going, they have to change all their other shipping though, don't they? The lack of options that they have.

[B]

Yes, it's incredible.

[A]

You've got Scapa Flow, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Chatham, Liverpool.

[B]

None of that.

[A]

None of that.

[B]

And also Sweden's neutral. Yeah. So they can't stop the Swedish cruiser Gotland, which is now steaming on a parallel course. Kotlin then sends. Sends routine signal to Stockholm. So the cat's out the bag, but it's whether Sweden then chooses to use that and tell the Allies or not. Anyway, Luchens immediately thinks, oh God, okay, yeah, whatever, you know, I'm gonna die anyway. So what? You know. Anyway, this EGRAF group is spotted, also spotted by a number of Norwegians as it passes and not least Viggo Axelsson, who's a young ship's chandler on the coast there. And he's walking on the shore at Westervajen in Christiansand, which is on the southern. If you look at the bulge of southern Norway, it's just on the east side.

[A]

Dangling protuberance. I always think Norway does look vaguely droopy phallic. Right? Yeah, but it's just, it's just on.

[B]

The right hand side of the knob end.

[A]

Okay, okay, we got there.

[B]

I decided to just spell it out. Anyway, so, so, so he's, he's on that southern tip and he's, he's with, with his friends. And Axelson knows that what he's seeing is significant. It's a massive great warship and he worked for the resistance in the Oslo Stavanger circuit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So his job at the port and harbour gives him access to all sorts of, you know, intelligence. So he now sends a coded message reporting the two large warships via Arne Moen, who's a local bus driver. And Mohan then gets in his bus and he passes them on to Gunvald Tomstadt who lives in Helle in fleckerfjord, which is 60 miles away. But this is moving pretty quickly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is, you know, whatever it is, you know, early in the, early in the morning. Yeah. Dawn on the 20th of May. But by the evening Axelson's message of 12 words is with Tomstadt. And Tomstadt sends it on immediately confirming what Denham's been able to report earlier. This is the proof.

[A]

This is one of those things where you wonder what the code is. Is it, you know. Two large Cornish pasties have been ordered from Gregg's.

[B]

Jumbo Size Jumbo.

[A]

One jumbo.

[B]

One jumbo pasty and one jumbo sausage roll just to distinguish the two. Or you might have just said Bismarck's.

[A]

Boys B has gone by with pe. So we've talked about Lutchens, of course. On the other side of, I suppose the other side of the roller. It's not the other side of the hill, is it? On the other side of the roller is Admiral Tovey, Admiral John Tovey.

[B]

And I think he's an admiral that most people. You know, it's interesting, isn't it? You know, the heroes of, of the Second World War, you know, Allied side, British side, you know, we, we know all the generals, we know our Slims and Alexanders and Monty's and everything. But I think the admirals are, are, you know, Bruce Fraser, Charles Forbes, you know, how many people have heard of Toby? I don't know, you know, he's pretty cool.

[A]

Well, he must be.

[B]

All of them are. This is the point. But if you, the caliber of the senior admirals is, is level Commander in.

[A]

Chief of the Home Fleet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Although you know, there's the odd, there's the odd dud in the army that's got to the top. So he's Commander Chief of the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow and he has his brand new flagship, King George V. Kgv. Yeah. And he's taken over from Admiral Charles Forbes in November he's come up from the Med where he'd been ABC's second in command and he's 56, so I'm 57. I feel like he's within reach as a, as a person. He's not some like 32 year old blade who's like a dim and distant memory. He's. He's got. He's got sharp features. Jim. He's got clear blue eyes. I mean I'm.

[B]

He's got a sort of slightly sort of ratty face. He's got. He's kind of.

[A]

I was edging towards a resemblance there but no, you don't look anything like. Okay, thank you.

[B]

You don't look anything like him. You're much more handsome.

[A]

And he's the youngest son of 11 children.

[B]

Fancy that.

[A]

So they parcel him off to Dartmouth when he's.

[B]

Yeah. Your seplace requirements. Dartmouth for you.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

All right. Daddy.

[A]

He's the oldest. Run the family business. The second one goes to the priesthood. Goes to the priesthood. I mean when you're down to the.

[B]

11Th and he's in the name of. Isn't it.

[A]

He fought at Jutland commanding the destroyer HMS Onslow and sunk the German light cruiser Wiesbaden. So this is an experienced naval officer who knows battle like raider. He's very religious and prays every morning and evening. It's a natural leader. He's got confidence pouring out of him. Transmits confidence to everybody. Is it?

[B]

Which I think is quite important to the senior commander.

[A]

I'd rather like that. Wouldn't you?

[B]

Yeah. It's going to be fine. We're going to sink her rather than.

[A]

Oh just. I just don't know what to do. Yeah.

[B]

Should we go through the demo straight?

[A]

I can't make my mind up. And he. He's served in all sorts of different sizes and types of ship in the different theaters.

[B]

He's done the Imperial Defense College which is. Which is the marker of high command.

[A]

I mean this is so interesting coming to the Navy after all these years. We've done so many high level British officers who've done a stint in India. Maybe they. Maybe they put down a rebellion somewhere doing some imperial policing. Then they were at the staff college and they taught at the staff college and while they were there they met. They met the other people who become the building blocks of their career as it come. You know if you look at any of the. Any of the top people we've talked about and not just. Not just army group commanders but people further down. This is the sort of path and this is. This is the. The naval version of that path isn't it? Basically yeah. You serve all over different types of ship. You've worked your way up. You've been to the defence college. So you Understand Imperial strategy as a philosophy and a way of doing things.

[B]

The Staff College and there's Imperial Defense.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And Imperial Defence College is the bit where you're really earmarked.

[A]

Yeah. You absolutely have your card mark for the future.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's been Naval Assistant to the Second Sea Lord, so he's swam a desk. Yeah.

[B]

You know, he's, he's, he's done Mediterranean, he's done destroyers, he's done big ships. You know, he's, he's a complete package basically.

[A]

He Commanded Rodney in 1932. He was promoted rear admiral in 35. Senior officers War course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then he was briefly Naval ADC to the King.

[B]

Quite useful.

[A]

Yeah. The big difference though between the army and the Navy is you do have tons of ship experience in a way that, going on, you know, you're used to the sea.

[B]

Well, and the other thing is, although the technology on a ship has changed, the principles haven't. So, so, you know, things like new tanks and how you use tanks, that's entirely new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas battleships, aircraft carriers, cruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers, aircraft carriers is where.

[A]

The novelty is and where it still is.

[B]

But, but they still have them in the First World War, at the end of the First World War. So it's not like they haven't been using them. Yeah. But my point is, is they've got all this kit already, so there's, there's new tactics, there's developments, there's, there's radio direction finding.

[A]

Yeah. There's not radar.

[B]

Not radar, no, no, definitely it is, but it is by 1941. But they've got everything, you know, so, so they really are experiencing the kind of, sort of in the warfare that they're going to be fighting, which is not the case for the army.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where they're having to kind of adapt all the time. And indeed the raf and also, as.

[A]

We keep saying, it's slightly an uneven struggle between the Navy and the, and the Kriegsmarine, isn't it? I suppose one of the crucial differences is that the German army has been, has been, you know, chomping at the bit for the encounter that it delivers in 1940 in the West. Toby, he has the courage of his convictions. He's, he's stubborn, he's bloody minded, he doesn't kowtow, he hates yes men, he's well dressed, he likes his food and wine. Golf handicap of four. That's a good time to play golf. Is there a link?

[B]

Everyone has time, Everyone has time for golf.

[A]

George V.

[B]

There's Probably a little putting thing, isn't it?

[A]

Driving balls off the back of the, off the thinking about, thinking about, you.

[B]

Know, gunnery knocking out Dolphin with his golf balls. That's exactly.

[A]

And he's this important though on King George V, on kgv he's got a green telephone connected to the special shoreline.

[B]

To the emeralds of London, don't you? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to use the green telephone.

[A]

I'm going to the green phone.

[B]

Very well.

[A]

On the morning of the 21st of May, his secretary Captain Paffard and his chief of staff Commodore Brind. Well, the green phone rings Jim.

[B]

Yep. To inform Toby that Bismarck and Prinz Eugen are on the move.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if he's not surprised, you know they've been keeping tabs on Bismarck pretty much since. Yeah, yeah Dot.

[A]

Well they would, wouldn't they?

[B]

Of course they'd be looking at the activity in Brittany, seeing the increased enemy air traffic in the Baltic and North Sea. All of which points to something happening. And in fact Toby's already sent a cruiser, HMS Suffolk to patrol the Denmark Straits while, while her sister ship HMS Norfolk is, is on the way to relieve her. Yeah. But on the morning of the 21st of May, Toby now orders an aerial reconnaissance of the Norwegian. He would. And the fjords and brings the fleet to short notice. And HMS Hood, which is the largest battle cruiser in the world and, and actually in terms of length is the largest ship in the world at 42,000 tons plus the new battleship Prince of Wales and the sister ship King George V, plus new carrier Victorious ready with 48 crated Hurricanes for Malta. Actually Victorious is due to be, is to be meeting the battle cruise, the Repulse in the Clyde.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're now all on standby for operations in, in the north in the Atlantic against Bismarck.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So it's like you're on notice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get ready chaps.

[A]

And these big ships come with, come.

[B]

With clutches of destroyers also fairly chunky chips. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well these are, yes, these are all serious ships but you also, they also, you know, they don't sail alone, do they? All the other supporting ships around them that go with it.

[B]

Yeah. You know, there's the cruises of Manchester and Birmingham, there's five Troll, you know, armed trawlers in Iceland and Pharaoh's Passage who are on standby, you know, the Home Fleet. He decides it's going to be divided into two. There's going to be the Hood under Vice Admiral Lancelot Holland and the Prince of Wales in one group and the KGV King George V and the battlecruiser Repulse in the other. So fighter reconnaissance Spitfires are sent over to Norway. One towards Oslo and Skagerrak and the other towards Bergen. You know, so it's all systems go. You know, they're all primed for this. They know the drill. You know, literally moment you press the go button. Yeah. Boom. It all starts to kick into gear in pretty quick order.

[A]

And now Lutyens does exactly what he says he wants. I just, I just picture him sighing.

[B]

All the time and looking a bit sad and wistful.

[A]

Oh my God. Thinking of his, thinking of home. And he orders the whole CCAF gripper into the fjords. So, so he puts on a pause.

[B]

And don't forget he's not a Nazi because he's got an Imperial dagger, not a Nazi dagger.

[A]

He is.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so 9 o' clock in the morning on the 21st of May they turn into Kosfjord, up towards Bergen and Bismarck then sails into the Grimstad ford just south of Bergen. And so Prinz Eugen is oiled and new supplies are brought on.

[B]

Yes. So when you, when you're saying you're oiled, I mean, you know what that means is you're, you're getting a refuel, refueling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Filler up, will you?

[A]

It is peculiar that he should do this. I mean why not? First of all, why hasn't he gone through the Kiel Canal and the North Sea? Why, why dither in this way? Or is he.

[B]

Why say we're not going to stop, we're just going to go for it and then to change your mind and then he goes in to refuel the Prinz Eugen. But doesn't oil Bismarck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though you've kind of burnt through.

[A]

Even though you ought to. It is interesting though that, because this is sort of Hitler doesn't. It hasn't been told about this. It's sort of semi autonomous, isn't it? So, so there's a bit of that, isn't there? There's a couple.

[B]

And also, I mean they've had intelligence from Admiral Canaris who's obviously the head of their, the Abwehr, you know, the Vermax intelligence service that clearly the Bismarck has been spotted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And again, you know, you can see Luchens having another sigh and going I still must go and see my berg. So, so Bismarck lies up just to the south of Bergen because when you get to it you go down, you go down the cause fjord and it's all kind of, you know, fairly sort of narrow and then it sort of opens up into these little kind of sub fjords and little bays and bits and islands.

[A]

Tendrils.

[B]

Tendrils, that's the word. And anyway, so that Bismarck kind of anchors up in the. In a way and just sits there, sits there while Prinz Eugen's getting oiled. Why wouldn't you? And you know, it's absolutely, completely part of the Royal Navy's DNA that every time you have a chance to oil doesn't mean you've only got rid of two liters.

[A]

Yeah, you do it. It's described as like a burglar loitering outside his local police station. And this is the other thing you're up against people who all want to be Nelson. That's the other thing. This is the other thing you're up against. You're up against the Navy with the tradition of like.

[B]

Yes. Who wants to be like Rodney in the hood.

[A]

Exactly. Not reckless aggression, but like aggression. Like they want to fight you and they want to destroy you.

[B]

It's absolutely part of it.

[A]

You're like picking your nose and admiring the Norwegian girls. It's, it's, it's, it's very strange, isn't it?

[B]

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[A]

And she spotted, of course, inevitably, I mean, must have caused a slight element of mystification. You have Pilot Officer Suckling in a, in a PR photoconnaissance Spitfire spots the two warships at 25,000ft and because they're not going anywhere, it's time to take pictures of them. Of course.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At 1:15 and zips back 21st of May.

[B]

So this is 21st of May before they've got anywhere. You know, they're still in the North Sea, they're on the Norwegian coast. They're stuck in a fjord. Yep.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

Or is he just thinking if I do this then perhaps I'll just cancel the whole thing?

[A]

Maybe that, maybe there's a bit of that, there's a bit of like. Ah. They're going to call it off at some point surely.

[B]

Because don't forget, he's reluctant to go. He thinks it's a bad idea to go without the Scharnhorst.

[A]

Obviously the Admiralty that they are. These are these photographs. It's a cruise and a battleship. The Admiralty request a bombing attack.

[B]

They don't have any other battleships. There can be only one.

[A]

Exactly. Commander in Chief Coastal Command's Air Marshal Sir Frederick Bohill.

[B]

Never forgotten.

[A]

Yeah, gone. He wants his own assessment first. So Suckling flies down to London with the photos, gets in the car Drives through the blackout to the Air Ministry where the assessment made at Wick is confirmed that that's, that's a. That's a movie scene. HE BANGS the desk. There's your bloody photos. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that's just ridiculous, isn't it?

[A]

Stupid. You know, not everyone's getting this right, are they? But it's as if they're trying to cook us an excellent drama. These people, these minor players are doing their bit to delivering an incredible drama.

[B]

But the interesting thing is, is that the Home fleet, despite, I mean, obviously, it's constantly in a state of flux. There's obviously new ships coming in, there's new crews, new recruits. So. So yes, there is this absolute hardcore of amazing experience, but there's also quite a lot of new. Yeah. And he's worried that the Swordfish crews are new on the carrier Victorious, which is also new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, he's worried at the coup on the kgv, King George V is new. Worried that the crew on the Prince of Wales is new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know Vickers Armstrong is still working on the guns.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And actually they sail with her.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And, you know, so there's, there's a bit that's kind of not certain and unsure and all the rest of it, but at the same time, you're right, he wants to be Nelson because they all do. They all do. So. So, you know, what the heck, you know, we didn't get where we are today by. By being, you know, timid.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

You just gotta go for it.

[A]

Well, Toby's in the KGV awaiting more news. Captain John Leach gathers the crew together, gives them a pep talk.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Saying he hopes they'll acquit themselves well if and when battle came. Nelsonian England expects. I mean, just this, this whole.

[B]

Just there. He said Nelson's literally just hovering on everyone's shoulder. He's looking down.

[A]

Well, he's sort of like Obi Wan Kenobi, isn't he?

[B]

Yeah. After he's been satisfied. Yeah. Sort of not, not a full focus. Use the fleet.

[A]

Do you think?

[B]

There's a little sort of. There's a sort of a sort of buzzing hum around him as well. England expects, obviously there's.

[A]

There's a change, the weather. So there's this. There's stuff to be worried about. Right. There's a mist rolling over the sea, then rain. They're worried that the, the Bismarck and the Eigen are going to get away undetected where they're into the Atlantic. That's. I mean, that's because that's what you're worried about here of course.

[B]

11, 11 convoys either in operation or about to be in operation because although.

[A]

They'Re confident they can deal with the Bismarck it's how much damage she does before they do. And the Atlantic as we've said in previous episodes is enormous. It's vast. You've just sailed it.

[B]

I can vouch for that.

[A]

Emptiness.

[B]

Yeah it's absolutely gigantic. And you know from the, from the bridge of. For King George V for example on a clear day you've got visibility of 15 miles around probably and on a non clear day that is massively reduced and on a misty day it might be nothing.

[A]

They see Kampfgruppes at Bergen Prinz Eugen oils. The destroyers do too.

[B]

Bismarck doesn't despite having burned a thousand tons since leaving gotten harbour.

[A]

It's really weird.

[B]

I mean why not?

[A]

And that's a lack of experience question isn't it really? They repaint both warships.

[B]

Yep. Get rid of that camo scheme which I think is a shame.

[A]

Yeah. They go gray to blend with the ocean and to make it more. Make them more confusing to look at. So you might confuse them for a British ship. They don't really need to do that though because Bismarck is basically a great big target isn't she? They've got pictures of Scapa flow of course because it's a two way traffic this recce thing. Yeah that there's I think it's high altitude ju88s maybe isn't it going over. And in the end they adopt a Spitfire don't they with the pressurized cockpit to deal with that. But he knows he Lucian has a picture of what's going on the other.

[B]

End of the north and he sees no movement whatsoever. Yeah which isn't entirely true but that's what they've reported.

[A]

That's what they've got in terms of intelligence. So at 730 she sets, Bismarck sets sails again on anti aircraft action stations. Because the other thing is to remember about these ships is they are basically anti aircraft batteries. Yes. We'll come to when, when, when we have some string bags possibly the destroyers in Prinz Eugen they. They all fall in line astern. A British coastal command signal is intercepted warning all aircraft to look out for the German ships. So they know they're being hunted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think you might be right. I think it might be you loiter a bit in the hope you get called off.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I would.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah I would take it but you know and also he hasn't got Nelson on his shoulder.

[A]

No he hasn't exactly.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And they're well out to sea when they see the glow of explosions over the Kolsfjord where Bomber Command or Coastal Command rather have turned up to attack the German force that's already moved on. So the British have missed their window there. So at five o' clock in the morning on the 22nd of May Liutjan dismisses the destroyer force ordering them to Trondheim.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Again why?

[B]

He doesn't give any reason. Any signals at all?

[A]

Yeah. So Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen continue.

[B]

Well the destroyers were never going to go and maraud in the sea. That's not what destroyers do.

[A]

But you. I know but.

[B]

Well the problem is if you have the destroyer force then you've got another whole load of ships who've also got to be oiled and you've got limited amount of oil. I mean this is sort of fatal flaw in the whole plan that they don't have any bases, they don't have an Iceland or Greenland or Halifax or you know.

[A]

Anyway they're heading north. Prinz Eugen and Bismarck unescorted are heading north alone. And we will take a break now to find out what Admiral Tovey decides to do about that. Welcome back to Weird Ways to make you talk with me Owl Murray and James Holland where the Bismarck having having dithered is now heading north.

[B]

This prompts a decision for Toby. He doesn't really know what's going on. He knows he's there. He's not aware at this point that it's that Bismarck's left but he's got to kind of COVID all bases. So at 09:00 clock on 21 May dusk is settling over Scapa Flow on the Orkney Islands just north of Scotland and he makes his decision. He signals to Vice Admiral Holland on HMS Hood and tells him to take the Prince of Wales plus the destroyers Electra, Anthony, Echo, Icarus, Achates and Antelope and head for Iceland to refuel and then take up position southwest of Ireland covering both the Denmark Straits and the Pharaohs island gap. So this is a stretch of land, it's where the North Sea meets the Northern Atlantic basically yeah. So just before midnight on 21 May the destroyers slip through their mooring and they're followed by Hood and Prince of Wales just after, you know, and this is, this is a little bit after midnight. So now we're in the early hours of 22 May and the Hood has sailed her very first mission 21 years earlier from Scapa. Now it's heading out into the North Sea again leading this force under Vice Admiral Lancelot Holland's flag. It couldn't be more tense.

[A]

We're going to get to Holland aren't we? No. No relative?

[B]

No, sadly not. I wish, I wish he's got Nelson on his shoulder.

[A]

Yeah I mean of all the senior naval officers who have he definitely has hasn't he? So where is the Bismarck? That's the big question. Toby's gloomy on the morning the 22nd of May because he had a lead and, and, and now it's sort of fizzling out really isn't it? They've sent, they've sent 18 bombers from Wick the previous evening but low cloud they bombed blind.

[B]

Yeah that was the, that was, that.

[A]

Was the raid that the Bismarck saw over his shoulder as she sailed, sailed away. So they don't know where the sea campgripper is if she's still there or not. The weather's terrible. It's interesting isn't it? It's May for the time of year. Really really bad rain is a blanket of rain a low 10/10 cloud over the North Sea so she can't be found. Recce aircraft have gone out but it's too difficult to see anything so they've come back and the worry is that the Bismarck she's steaming flat out with Prinz Eugen. She could be basically she could be anywhere.

[B]

I mean the Atlantic's fast, the North.

[A]

Sea's pretty big too and obviously the thing that Tovey's worried about is his ship's because we talked about oiling being really really important and the Royal Navy's attitude that you oil whenever you possibly can if you've got a fleet charging around burning it up looking for a needle in a haystack and as you said the human eye can see 15 miles to the bridge of a battleship.

[B]

Which is, which is significantly less on smaller ones.

[A]

Yeah which isn't really much is it? On the plus side however they're being canalized the sea campgripper to go to the Denmark Straits and the Iceland Faroes Gap. You know where they're going if they take that route. If they take their route. So they're going to turn up there at some point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if they don't go that way if they decide to go to the English Channel in theory.

[B]

Well no if they go through the Pharaoh's Ice.

[A]

No but, but you know what I mean right. Their options are, their options are limited. At some point they're going to come into contact with the Royal Navy one way, one way or another.

[B]

Well the reason for going over Iceland is you've got fewer aircraft. You know you've got aircraft on Shetland, you've got aircraft on north of Scotland and yeah, so you, you, you are in the kind of aircraft striking distance if you go through the Pharaohs Iceland gap, but less so if you're going around the north.

[A]

Yeah. But it's cloudy all day mid morning. Coastal Command cancels all flights because it's, it flying is impossible.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But Captain Henry St John Fancourt, I mean honestly, Commander Commanding Officer of Naval Air Station Hatstone.

[B]

Can I just say something really? So, so my mate Giles, his father was born in 1906, it was really, really old and he had a friend called St. John Fancourt and we used to think it was hilarious. Yeah. So we always write these kind of fake postcards to each other from St. John saying, you know fishing, fishing fair and all the rest of it. And I spoke to Giles this morning, I said it's really funny. I've just come across St. John Fancourt. There can only be one surely. And he said that will 100% be the sinjin Fanco. Oh amazing childhood myth.

[A]

Oh amazing.

[B]

There he is. He suddenly popped up.

[A]

Amazing. And people aren't cool called Singen Sinjin anymore, are they? No. He sends Alba calls up to Shetland despite the weather which are therefore 100 miles closer to Bergen. So Fancourt then asks his 2IC Lieutenant Commander Jeffrey Rotherham with an expert old school navigator whether he'd be willing to fly over to Bergen in this God awful weather.

[B]

Yeah. And the point about Rotherham is that he's flying a desk at this point. It's absolute itching to get back in the saddle.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So off he goes in a Maryland which, which have, which as we've seen the Malta story did sterling recce work.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Noel Goddard, who's the leader of the Target Tank flight Volunteers. I'll do it sir. Absolutely. They take off at 4:30 in the afternoon in terrible weather. Twice they fly to under 100ft but still can't see the sea.

[B]

You say no, no, no, no, I think we better.

[A]

Can we go back up again? This is awfully risky. They get to Bergen and there's a gap in the cloud that appears at the key moment and they get to Kosfjord and there's nothing there. Nada. Immediately sends a message in case they're shot down. That's the spirit, isn't it?

[B]

I mean you might be dead in Three minutes. So I'm gonna send it now.

[A]

Yeah. I mean honestly, they can't get hold of Coastal Command so they call on the target towing way instead because it's a target towing aircraft. They get the message through.

[B]

Pass on the message, will you? Very well.

[A]

And three, three and a quarter hours after take leaving Shetland.

[B]

I've just got this image of them sort of crowded in the cockpit of the Maryland. We've kind of battered and buffeted.

[A]

You must have been in a light aircraft when you fly through cloud, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you cannot see anything. It's just white in front of you. Right. And that. I've done that in, in good weather. Right. You have to fly through a cloud. You're in a cloud for 10 minutes and you literally can't see anything at all. It's simply white in flight in front of you, flying. It's terrifying. Yeah. You know, you're told, look out the window in case you see anything coming and let me know. Well, the moment you'd see the thing coming is when you'd be hitting it. Right.

[B]

Coming up 10 yards ahead in this.

[A]

Situation they're in absolutely filthy weather and you know, they go down to 100ft. How reliable is the altimeter? Actually in really difficult weather.

[B]

This is Wildstone Miller, remember.

[A]

There we are. Sadly we can't. But they get back to Shetland three and a quarter hours later.

[B]

Absolutely amazing.

[A]

Incredible. But Toby knows it's not good news. But Toby now knows that he's gone.

[B]

That they've sailed anyway so they're there. You'll see our refusal to join Manchester and Birmingham, which are cruisers, they're light cruisers in the Iceland Pharaoh's Passage and Repulse, which is supposed to be escorting the victorious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Malta to join his flag north of Hebrides in the morning.

[A]

Now he's got some information he can. They can start steaming less sort of aimlessly. Although not aimlessly is not the right word. They've got. They've got more of an idea of the picture.

[B]

Yes, but what of the Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen?

[A]

This whole thing, you know, this is like watching a mouse stick its head in a trap in slow motion. Isn't it like reaching for the cheese? No, I'm not sure.

[B]

Yeah, maybe not.

[A]

Oh, actually I do really like cheese. No, no, I'm not so sure about the cheese. Oh, actually I really fancy a piece of cheese. It's a bit like that, isn't it?

[B]

So.

[A]

Oh no, the trap's gone off.

[B]

So.

[A]

So what are the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen doing.

[B]

They are continuing north and. And Lutchens is still undecided to whether to go north or south of Iceland. I mean, here's a man. He belt up, mate. Yeah. Anyway, his meteorologist is a chap called Dr. Eksternbrink. Of course he is.

[A]

Obviously what one doesn't like to do when looking at history is seek out stereotypes. But by God, both sides are conforming. Right now we've got St. John versus Dr. Ekstenbrink.

[B]

That's just superb. I want Synge I with syngeon. Doctor. So Dr. Extern.

[A]

He might as well be called Dr. Exterminate, he says.

[B]

He advises him that the bad weather's unlikely to shift soon. But how he knows this is anyone knows because they haven't got many. They've got a few weather ships but that's it. So Luchens decides to head directly to the Denmark Straits I over the north until you go over the top of Iceland and then down that gap to the west of Iceland, southeast of. Of Greenland. It's a high risk decision. He also makes a decision not to oil from the Weissenberg unless the weather suddenly lifts. So he wants to kind of make the most of it. You know, make hay while the weather's low. But you know, he hasn't oiled in Corsfield at Bergen. He's now not oiling from the Weissenberg. Prinz Eugen has got limited range and Bismarck's already burning. You know, it was a thousand liters before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They even got to Bergen. Yeah. But he reckons it's better to make most of the weather and get well cleared of the Royal Navy. So he's. You know, the flip side of that is you're not going to be going anywhere if you've got any fuel. Yeah. And also that's also then if you do start getting yourself short of fuel and you suddenly find yourself and you need to do some sort of dramatic sailing, you haven't got the wiggle room to do it.

[A]

No. You know, they. They do have intelligence from air reconnaissance. They are listening to wireless traffic.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

This tells them as far as they know that the home fleet still hasn't sailed and is still at Scaffold.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they've been sending over reconnaissance planes over Scapa Flow. And what they haven't realized that there's dummy boats there. What do you think the Lutchens would do if he. If he heard that they'd sailed? Big sigh.

[A]

Whatever the German FML is, I think my plans.

[B]

I have my affairs. Well.

[A]

And I think it's quite interesting. They paint out the Nazi swastikas on the quarter deck and the fo'.

[B]

C'.

[A]

Sl. At this point that sounds to me like a little bit of confidence trickling out of the old tank there, isn't it?

[B]

A little bit.

[A]

Maybe it's a tech. As if we're not Nazis. The foggy weather continues all afternoon into the evening. It's so thick that the ships can hardly see each other at various times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Further faulty intelligence arrives. A signal from Group north at the Royal Navy Force H based Gibraltar were now at sea, most likely headed for Crete. In fact, they're actually all still at Gibraltar.

[B]

I mean, how bad is their intelligence?

[A]

It's really not good. After all, this is a signature thing of Nazi intelligence, isn't it? You know, we. All the times we talked about the Battle of Britain, you know, how Beppo.

[B]

Schmidt maybe these statements with enormous authority but with absolutely no basic reality pulling.

[A]

Them out their ass. Yeah. 11pm on the 22nd of May. They're now 200 miles northeast of Ice Iceland and Lutjens turned southwest into the.

[B]

Northern stretch, now getting into the stretch of the Denmark Straits, Mark straits.

[A]

And at four o' clock in the morning. So five hours later on the 23rd of May, the two warships, they open their throttles and they're going at 27 knots now because they need to. You need to get through the Denmark Straits and out of them and out into the open Atlantic.

[B]

It's so big. But don't forget the night. You know, it's light until about 1:15 in the morning. Yeah. And it's dark for maybe an hour, half two hours.

[A]

Right. So. So you've not really got super north here. Yeah, yeah, I would have. I would have been steaming at 27 knots quite a lot earlier.

[B]

Yeah. But you haven't oiled.

[A]

I haven't oiled. I've not been oiled today. Jim, the discerning listener.

[B]

You went past the Weissenberg and I didn't oil.

[A]

The discerning Lister could tell that I've not been oiled this morning. I may be getting well oiled later anyway. They're now approaching the most dangerous place after the break.

[B]

Would you be getting oil from the Weissenberg?

[A]

Possibly. Some Weissen beer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a narrow. There's a narrow passage of straits. It's only 30 to 40 miles wide. And there's ice floes. They're dodging icebergs.

[B]

It's absolutely amazing. And they have these snow flurries and then you have little patches of mist, and suddenly they emerge into this sort of crispy clear for a little bit. There's these ice floes all out. You know, everyone's out huddled in their kind of extra jackets and scarves and gloves and. And what have you. And you can imagine the tension on the Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen as they're doing this, because they know that this is the danger zone. You know, they're in this narrow stretch. They've got very little room for maneuver. This is the moment.

[A]

And late in the afternoon of the 23rd, the weather starts to clear.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fog rolls away. At the moment, the straight's narrow to between 3 and 10 miles. So they're really.

[B]

The sun is crystal clear.

[A]

Yeah. So you actually, when it's this narrow and there's this much ice back, you can't barrel on as fast as possible. Gospel got to be. You've got to be pretty cautious, haven't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So they can see this big bank of fog over to, you know, over to their left as they're heading south or over to port, I should say.

[A]

Yeah. And it's this feeling.

[B]

They are.

[A]

I mean, they are on the edge of the world. This is the edge of the world, isn't it? Make no mistake. There's the distant mountains of Greenland, there's icebergs, and there's danger lurking. Captain Blinkman gets out his binos and looks at the wall of fog.

[B]

I mean, and he looks at this wall of fog and he goes, is there anywhere in these parts? They're in there.

[A]

I mean, you can see how that.

[B]

Would start to play on your nerves as this fog bank. And are they just suddenly going to see this warship kind of emerge?

[A]

But, Jim, this is like. This is like something from a Viking saga, isn't it?

[B]

It's just amazing.

[A]

The ice monsters and. Yeah, yeah. And danger lurking in the fog. I mean, it really is. Yeah.

[B]

And there are two cruisers. Yes. There's the Suffolk and the Norfolk. And these are county class heavy cruisers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as we know, the heaviness refers to the guns.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yes. Rather than displace, they're three funnel, 13 and a half thousand tons displacement.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They're built. Built for speed, not for protection. 630ft long.

[B]

So compare that to. I think the hood is 842ft long. So this. They're smaller.

[A]

Yeah. Still pretty big.

[B]

It's still pretty big.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Top speed of 31 and a half knots.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, that is seriously going.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can Cut through this.

[B]

You know when you're going in knots, you're going faster than miles per hour power. Yes.

[A]

Crew of 700. She has eight 8 inch dual gun turrets. She's got six quick fire 4 inch guns.

[B]

That's 16, right, yeah. Their armament changes by the way. There's a, there's a night up to 1939 and then there's up to 1941. What I'm not quite sure is at what stage in 1941 we are at the moment.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

So I'm taking a sort of mean.

[A]

Line in terms of a realm.

[B]

Anyway, the bottom line is that, you know, I'm happy to be corrected on this but. But the end. Eight eight inch dual ton turrets. The six quick firing four inch and two times two pounder eight barrel quad guns. I mean, yeah, two quadruple fifty cals, two 21 inch quadruple torpedo tubes. I mean that is serious amount of firepower.

[A]

And they're part of the first cruiser squadron and cruisers were. These were laid down in the 20s, launched in the early 30s. And the idea is they're kind of a multi purpose shipper cruiser that can be used for, you know, merchant shipper shipping raiding. They can be used for escorting. They're essentially for this kind of thing as well.

[B]

They're supporting the big boys basically.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's the idea exactly.

[B]

Laid down the 1920s, launched early 30s. Patrolling the Denmark Straits is not a popular job. You know, you're just going up and down, up and down. You're not seeing anything. It's cold as rough, you know, it's rough, it's weather. You know, you have these snow scores, you have the fog, all the rest of it. There's a brilliant passage in Ludovic Kennedy's book where he goes, the bowels dug deep into the dark sides of the traveling water hills flung the spray upwards where the polar wind caught it, hurled it over the ship on deck and superstructure and the faces of crouching men froze it on steel and skin. One saw nothing but an agony of water, gray, green or blue, black spume tossed, marble streaked, heard nothing but the thunder of the seas against the sides. The yell of the wind above. I mean incredibly evocative that is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And obviously having been an old hand now crossing the Atlantic, I can tell you that you do. It is really noisy.

[A]

Is it just like that, Jim?

[B]

It is just like that.

[A]

It's just like that. There we are. The captain of HMS Suffolk is Captain Robert Ellis and he's been ordered by Toby to oil when he can. He's oil fully oiled on the 18th of May after 10 days already at sea. So he's Dr. Havelfjord in Iceland. And the Suffolk is a better bet for this job than the Norfolk because she's been arcticized so prepared for this bad weather. So she's got now got an enclosed bridge.

[B]

Steam heated.

[A]

Just imagine.

[B]

Can't go on Suffolk.

[A]

Imagine the open bridge. I think I've just volunteered for the summer.

[B]

And it's got radar. I think we can say radar now.

[A]

You can say radar. Norfolk is open bridge because she has not been arcticized.

[B]

No.

[A]

She's commanded by Rear Admiral Frederick Wake Walker. He's a good chap who done jolly well at Dunkirk.

[B]

Very well.

[A]

Norfolk is now fully well now steaming to Isofordia on Iceland's northwest peninsula to look.

[B]

I'm quite tempted to get and visit that really ISA fjord.

[A]

Okay. Right on the. And there's a new radar station. That's why she's gone.

[B]

It's five and a half hours. My car went by from Reykjavik.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really. Wake Walker is a torpedo specialist. He's tall. He's an impressive cut of a fellow. He's rather dry and humorless. His hobbies are shooting sketching and looking for wild flowers.

[B]

Get on like a house on fire with Wavel.

[A]

He likes hunting saxifrage and yomping around ice.

[B]

I'm leaving shed for a minute. I'm just going for a hunt for some saxifrage.

[A]

Did you find your saxifrage sir?

[B]

Yes I did actually.

[A]

Yes I did actually. 10 o' clock in the morning on 23 May Suffolk arrives at Isofjord and there's these cliffs of Vestfield there looming above. Norfolk's already there. It's the team up event of the century as these two East Anglia. It's like that. Norfolk and Suffolk are destined to sail together. Right. Aren't they?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

While flicking V's at one another and.

[B]

Not bothering with Essex. Yeah.

[A]

Not bothering with the estates. Exactly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

At Cambridge. Cambridge.

[B]

Cambridge.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. They're ordered to proceed within radar distance of the pack ice opposite Vestvida and then patrol parallel in a southwest northeast direction on each leg for three hours. Norfolks to station herself 15 miles to the south in case the Germans have skirted around the edge of a minefield. Because it's mined as well. As well as ice flow. As well as how narratives. They've mined sections of it to deny it to the enemy. If nothing spotted by the following ships to the two ships are to rendezvous and check positions. And as you said Suffolk has radar.

[B]

Range of 13 miles. Yeah. And that covers all sections except either side of the stern. So Suffolk heads off into the mist to begin the patrol. So you know Brinkmann was right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's gonna be there. That's where they're gonna be. Yeah, yeah. But they're under strict orders not to engage the Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen if spotted. Rather just to shadow them until the big boys turn up. So nothing happens, nothing spotted all afternoon. To the south the cruisers Manchester, Birmingham, Arethusa and also Hood. Prince of Wales, kgv, King George V and Repulse are all steaming to the south of Iceland. And pilots and observers of coastal commanders scanning these seas from above between Iceland.

[A]

And Orkney but nothing.

[B]

Then 7:15pm 23rd of May Abel. Seaman Newell on the Suffolk on the starboard lookout on the bridge. He's been sweeping for you know, 50 times or something just going back and forth.

[A]

Imagine the concentration required.

[B]

And then suddenly he spots something he's never ever going to forget. It's the Bismarck. Black, massive. And it's emerging from a patch of mist on the starboard quarter not more than seven miles away. It's nothing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Ship bearing green 140. He shouts. And then the Prinz Eugen also appears. Two ships bearing green one four zero. Suffolk now speeds up full speed to the fog bank. Alarm bells ringing, action staging.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

[B]

Two very slow minutes as Bismarck came on at them and everyone's waiting for the first salvos but it never comes. They reach the fog. Suffolk's bridge is able to see the two blips pass from left to right. And when 30 miles ahead at limit of radar, Suffolk runs out of the fog and takes up position on Prince Eugen's wake.

[A]

I mean what on earth is going on on the Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen?

[B]

Well they've also been told don't engage, get out to the Atlantic. Yeah but, yeah but what if you suffer some damage?

[A]

This building is being padded by Nelson whirring in his grave right now. This is an extraordinary encounter given given Bismarck's superiority in terms of firepower.

[B]

Well it's not as clear cut as you might well point out. I mean Norfolk's 15 miles away in fog but picks up Suffolk's signal so emerges from the fog to find Bismarck only six miles ahead. Coming straight at us. Exactly. Run away. Run away. But of course they've got Nelson on their shoulders. They can't do that as. So Norfolk maneuvers to get back into the fog. Step it back in Bismarck's gun fire in anger for the first time.

[A]

So last finally.

[B]

But it's just, it's a shot across their bowels, literally.

[A]

Warning.

[B]

Don't muscle Voss.

[A]

Warning shot.

[B]

Yeah, well you're never going to hit first time unless you're just. It's a complete fluke. So on the bridge of Norfolk they can see the ripple of orange, brown puffs of smoke. Heard the scream coming over towards them. All miss. But one bounces off the sea and ricochets straight over, over the bridge. God, did you see that go by? By Jove. Anyway, five salvos fired before Norfolk gets into the mist. So that is. That's a squeaky bum moment if ever there was one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No casualties or hits both. Splinters spatter the sides but gets away. So Suffolk has been sending out a stream of signals but none have gone through because of icing on the aerials. So the Norfolk sighting report is the first that's picked up by the Admiralty shore establishments and also by Toby on the King George V and also by the Admiralty in London. So suddenly it's like. And everyone's like we're on.

[A]

It's into the matrix.

[B]

Yeah. Day before, HMS Rodney and the troopship Britannic had left the Clyde and they're now 800 miles to the south en route for a refit in Boston. Also picked up by Vice Admiral James Somerville of Force H who is still at jib. And also by the Kryptanalists in Bismarck and Prince Eugen. So suddenly the cat is out of the bag. The chase is on.

[A]

The Germans know they've been sued because after all the Germans are reading Royal Navy ciphers at this point quite happily.

[B]

Which of the big warships, British warships are closest? Now you've obviously got Suffolk and Norfolk but, but who are the big boys that are coming towards them?

[A]

Hood. That's not quite brand new.

[B]

Not quite brand new. Yeah, but she's a beauty.

[A]

But she's not quite brand new.

[B]

She's a beauty. She might be really famous. She's iconic.

[A]

Yeah. And this is unsinkable. Oh no, Jim, you said it.

[B]

Oh God.

[A]

Anyway, join us for our next part of the Hood and the Bismarck. Well, we're going to get to know the Hood, aren't we Jim?

[B]

We are going to get to know the mighty Hood.

[A]

The mighty Hood. We're going to get to know the mighty Hood while we still can. Join us for our next episode. Episode where Jim tries to accept what happens. Maybe, maybe he, maybe he never will. We hope you hope you've enjoyed this. Become a patron of the way of ways of making you talk officer class. But the patron is where the action is, if I'm honest with you.

[B]

Extra material.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. There's extra material. There's audiobook stuff, readings, reading. There's exclusive offers. And there's our live cast where you can, you can watch us War waffle in real time.

[B]

Quit a month.

[A]

Exactly. And of course, no ads if you subscribe to either of those options.

[B]

Substantially less than a past year from Greg's.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And who wants an advertisement interrupted the story of the mighty hood. Well, maybe James, to delay the analogy.

[B]

I'm not talking about it.

[A]

Thanks very much for listening or watching those of you on your screens. We'll see you soon. Cheerio.

[B]

Cheerio.

[A]

So what's really going on between Donald Trump and Venezuela right now?

[B]

Now, I'm Gordon Carrera, national security journalist. And I'm David McCloskey, author and former CIA analyst. And we together are the hosts of the Rest Is Classified. In our latest emergency episodes, we go deep into the inside track of what's really going on in the spy war in Venezuela. And we're looking at how, with the help of the CIA, Donald Trump has managed to oust Venezuela's leader. So get the full insider scoop by listening to the Rest Is Classified. Wherever you get your podcasts.