Podcast Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: How the Navy Learned to Fly: Stringbags (Part 1)
Release Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Al Murray (Comedian), James Holland (Historian)

Main Theme & Episode Purpose

This episode delves into the origins and evolution of British naval aviation, focusing on the Fleet Air Arm and the iconic Fairey Swordfish ("Stringbag") aircraft. Al and James trace the intertwined histories of the Royal Navy and aviation, spotlighting the innovation that led to WW2’s pivotal naval air operations—culminating in the planning for the raid on Taranto (Operation Judgment). With lively banter and deep expertise, they challenge misconceptions about the Fleet Air Arm's perceived obsolescence and celebrate its technological breakthroughs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Fleet Air Arm and Swordfish

• The episode opens with a tongue-in-cheek sea shanty about the Swordfish, setting a light, enthusiastic tone.
  Quote:
  “If it weren't for King George's Swordfish, where the hell would the Royal Navy be?” — Al Murray & James Holland ([02:08])

• The hosts admit this is their first deep dive into the Royal Navy’s Fleet Air Arm.

• The Swordfish—visually antiquated by WW2—was, in fact, an aircraft with a storied, and surprisingly effective, service history.

2. Deep Roots: Naval Aviation’s Genesis

• Historical Context: The Fleet Air Arm’s roots trace back to the early 1910s; the Royal Navy recognized aviation’s value from the outset—for reconnaissance, submarine spotting, mine protection, and artillery spotting.

• Quote:
  “The Admiralty…from the start…the minute aviation comes along, the Admiralty has its eye on aviation.” — Al Murray ([04:51])

• Early tensions: the creation of the Royal Flying Corps and subsequent debates about whether naval aviation should be controlled by the Navy or an independent air service.

• Winston Churchill’s personal role as First Lord of the Admiralty is highlighted, especially his advocacy for an independent naval air arm ([08:43]).

3. WWI Innovations and Birth of the Aircraft Carrier

• The Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) in WWI demonstrates innovation: deploying airships, seaplanes, and the world’s first aircraft carrier.

• Daring rescues, the development of aerial torpedoes, and the use of aircraft in artillery spotting are discussed (“eyes in the sky”).

• Britain invents and pioneers the aircraft carrier concept, converting existing ships (including one meant for Italy!) and leading with HMS Argus and HMS Furious ([13:55]).

• Quote:
  “We are the first. We're pioneers. We invent it, we pioneer it, we drive it. And we're the best.” — Al Murray ([13:57])

4. Interwar Challenges & The Swordfish Emerges

• Post-WWI, the Navy briefly loses control of its air assets to the new Royal Air Force, stifling innovation and identity.

• International treaties (Washington 1922) limit naval expansion, but all sides maneuver to maintain naval aviation capability.

• Inter-service rivalry persists: the Air Ministry (led by “Bomber” Trenchard) prioritizes bombing over naval air power, marginalizing naval aviators ([25:14]).

• Despite this, the Fairy Swordfish is developed—praised as rugged, adaptable, and, crucially, “fit for purpose.”

• Quote:
  “What we've got to do is not succumb to the idea that biplanes in the 1930s are some sort of prehistoric relic.” — Al Murray ([27:10])
  “They're damn good on aircraft carriers because they don't need much room to take off and land.” — James Holland ([27:11])

5. Swordfish and Fleet Air Arm on Eve of WW2

• By 1939, the Royal Navy regains operational control over the Fleet Air Arm; new carriers are rapidly being commissioned ([30:12]).
• At the war’s outset, the Fleet Air Arm is small but expanding—13 operational Swordfish squadrons, with new carriers Illustrious, Formidable, and Victorious coming online ([30:43]).
• The role of the Swordfish is reevaluated: not obsolete, but specialized and highly effective in anti-submarine warfare and other naval roles.

6. First Combat Lessons: Mers-el-Kébir and Dakar

• The hosts recount Britain’s attacks on the French fleet after the fall of France to prevent it from falling into Axis hands, notably the action at Dakar.

• Swordfish are used to attack the battleship Richelieu in harbor—demonstrating that slow, maneuverable aircraft are ideal for such strikes ([41:41]).

• Lessons learned: torpedoes run too deep and too fast for harbor attacks; modifications are developed accordingly. The importance of running at slower, more stable speeds for stationary targets is underscored.

• Quote:
  “Proof of concept—attacking ships in harbor with Swordfish works.” — Al Murray ([43:10])

7. Planning Taranto: The Pinnacle of Ambition

• The concept of striking a fleet at harbor (“doing a Nelson,” as Al jokes, referencing historical British naval raids) is deeply ingrained in Royal Navy strategy.

• Long-standing plans for a Taranto attack are dusted off and modernized as the Italian Navy becomes Britain’s main Mediterranean rival ([34:01], [36:24]).

• Extensive operational planning begins for Operation Judgment, with leadership like Captain Boyd and Commander “Streamline” Robertson at the helm.

• The operation requires intricate logistics, surprise, and technological adaptation; setbacks (fires, aircraft losses, mechanical failures) threaten to derail preparations but the plan persists.

• Noteworthy: “Fulmars” (carrier-borne fighters) are instrumental in providing air superiority during these operations.

• Memorable exchange:
  “At the briefing, one of the observers, Blood Scarlet…says, 'Don’t let’s waste valuable time talking about the return journey.' Stoic society, straight in.” — Al Murray ([65:20])

8. The Italian Fleet—The Target

• James provides a detailed inventory of the Italian fleet anchored at Taranto: battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines, torpedo boats—a “rich bounty” ([57:16]).
• The upcoming attack’s challenge: keep the Italian fleet in port until the moment of strike.

9. Operation MB8 and the Deception Plan

• Operation Judgment (Taranto raid) is part of a wider operation (MB8), involving multiple convoys and deception moves to bamboozle Italian naval intelligence ([58:41]).
• Even post-war, Italians could not make sense of the British operational intricacies without British explanation.
• The original strike date (Trafalgar Day) is delayed by technical hitches, but is rescheduled for November 11, aligning with favorable moonlight.
• Technical improvisations and last-minute heroics (e.g., Lieutenant George Going’s determination to join the mission) punctuate the buildup to the raid.

10. Cliffhanger Ending

• The episode ends just before the Swordfish launch for Taranto, with the Italian fleet unsuspecting and the British poised to deliver a historic blow ([65:33]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the innovation of naval aviation:
  “Here’s the Navy, inventing what’s going to be power projection for the rest of the 20th century into the 21st.” — Al Murray ([14:20])
• On British naval identity:
  “You declinists…stick that in your declinist pipe and smoke it!” — Al Murray ([14:36])
• On Swordfish Doctrine:
  “It’s the helicopter before the helicopter…what you want is a mixture of different aircraft that can do different things.” — James Holland ([28:24])
• On technical adaptation:
  “The crucial lesson they learn is that the torpedoes are too fast. Right? The torpedoes run at 40 knots and are better off running more steady at 27 knots.” — Al Murray ([43:52])
• On the Royal Navy’s ethos:
  “Gentlemen, I have called you together for—I want your advice on how best we can best annoy the enemy.” — Admiral Cunningham, quoted by Al Murray ([50:41])
• On the sheer scale of the Italian fleet at Taranto:
  “That is a rich bounty if ever there was one.” — James Holland ([57:35])
• Stoic humor:
  “Don’t let’s waste valuable time talking about that [the return journey].” — Blood Scarlet, observer ([65:20])
• On the episode's climatic pause:
  “And if that’s not a cliffhanger, I don’t know what is.” — James Holland ([65:33])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:08 — Fleet Air Arm sea shanty; setting the episode's theme
• 03:55–06:41 — The historical impetus for naval aviation
• 09:01–10:30 — Churchill, the early days of British naval aviation, and WWI lessons
• 13:55–16:31 — Britain invents and pioneers aircraft carriers; pride in innovation
• 24:42–25:36 — The interwar organizational mess and rivalry over air assets
• 27:10–29:04 — The case for biplanes and the attributes of the Swordfish
• 41:41–43:10 — Swordfish strike at Dakar: operational lessons
• 50:41–51:56 — Admiral Cunningham’s “how best can we annoy the enemy?” speech; planning intensifies
• 57:16–58:41 — Detailed inventory of the Italian fleet at Taranto harbor
• 58:41–62:13 — Operational complexity and setbacks before the Taranto raid
• 65:20–65:33 — Observer’s dry wit at the briefing (“don’t waste time on the return”); closing build to the next episode

Tone and Style

• The hosts expertly blend humor, affection for their topic, and authoritative analysis.
• Frequent playful jibes and references to British naval tradition, stoicism, and dry wit.
• Passion for the technical innovation and underappreciated aspects of military history shines throughout.

Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode provides an engaging and thorough primer on British naval aviation’s origins and the development of carrier warfare leading up to World War II. Al and James reveal how much of what’s often considered “old-fashioned” was actually revolutionary—and how the much-mocked Swordfish proved vital at a moment of destiny for the Royal Navy. With colorful anecdotes, clear technical explanations, and lively banter, they make the run-up to the Taranto raid both accessible and compelling, leaving listeners eager for the climactic events of Part 2.