WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: How To Commemorate WW2 (December 30, 2025)

Hosts: Al Murray & James Holland
Guests:

• Henry Montgomery (grandson of Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery)
• Angela Findlay (author, In My Grandfather’s Shadow, granddaughter of a WWII German general)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the complexities of commemorating World War II, focusing on personal family histories from both the British and German perspectives. By interviewing Angela Findlay and Henry Montgomery, Al and James navigate challenging questions around memory, guilt, trauma, and the ongoing process of national and personal reconciliation. The conversation weaves together expert historical insight, grounded family stories, and ideas for how remembrance could evolve meaningfully as WWII passes out of living memory.

1. Guest Introductions and Backgrounds

[02:34–09:16]

• Angela Findlay discusses growing up in rural England with a German heritage. Her grandfather was a Wehrmacht general, which was normalized within her family but problematic in British society, especially given post-war anti-German sentiment.

  • “For us, it was completely normal to have a German general sitting on a writing desk. And for others it absolutely wasn’t.”—Angela Findlay [03:06]
  • Angela’s journey of discovery began at 40 after watching Downfall: “I could not stop crying. [...] Something became kind of dislodged in my psyche and I googled my grandfather’s name for the first time and up came that photograph of his surrender.” [05:02]

• Henry Montgomery describes growing up acutely aware of his grandfather’s fame as “Monty.”

  • He shares the difficulties of public visibility as a child, feeling “quite traumatic,” and how he mostly avoided delving into his family history until later in life and after meeting veterans.
  • “I knew him as a grandfather, but he was a… good grandfather, wasn’t he? He was fantastic to me and my sister... But it was more, quite formal.” —Henry [09:00]

2. Shifting Narratives and National Memory

[10:14–13:29]

• James Holland highlights how British WWII narratives shifted in the 1960s–70s from triumphalist to more questioning, affected by attitudes toward the war and evolving national identity.

• Angela describes the painful psychological split of having “bad” (German) and “good” (British) heritage, and the silence within postwar German families regarding their roles in the war.

  • “Germany as a whole… has looked at the past ad infinitum. It’s done a remarkable kind of job, I think, of the memorial culture and counter-memorial culture, but within families, it’s still impossibly painful and difficult.” [12:43]

3. Remembrance and Reconciliation: Broadening the Discussion

[13:29–20:40]

• The group introduces the theme of who and what is remembered on official dates like Remembrance Sunday.

  • Henry: “When I talk to veterans, they consistently say, ‘Don’t let it happen again.’ …There’s no sense of glory in the way they talk about their experiences.” [15:05]

• Angela advocates for a broader remembrance that acknowledges the vast civilian casualties and sacrifices of other nations:

  • “If we could include remembrance of other countries’ dead and also acknowledge the sacrifice of the Russians… the 30 million Chinese and the 6 million Poles… broaden out our understanding of war as a calamity for everyone.” [16:40]

4. Facing Difficult Family Histories

[18:08–21:42]

• Angela discusses the trepidation and determination in researching her grandfather’s actions, striving for understanding rather than judgment, and exploring how ordinary people can become complicit in atrocities.

  • “By going in without judgment, I was able to ask people questions… I really put him on trial in a way.” [18:54]
  • “Trying to understand is NOT the same as condoning or justifying or excusing.” [20:30]

• Her efforts revealed her grandfather “was a poet… a thinker,” allowing her to see him as a complex human rather than a caricature of evil.

5. The Consequences of War and the Challenge of Memory

[24:01–30:09]

• James underscores the incomprehensible scale of WWII destruction, the trauma left in its wake, and the remarkable recovery of nations like Japan and Germany.

  • “The trauma of WWII feels much, much more remote. I worry that we in the west just feel all a bit too comfortable and a bit too safe…” [25:38]

• Henry cites Eisenhower:

  • “Freedom lives in the hearts, the minds, and the spirit of men… It needs to be daily, fresh and earned. Otherwise, like a flower cut from its roots, it will wither and die.” [26:18]
  • Remembrance shouldn’t just be annual; it should be “much more in our daily culture.” [27:08]

• The group agrees this must begin early, with education—helping young people understand not only facts of war but how easily “othering” and division lead to conflict.

6. Lessons from Reconciliation and “Othering”

[28:37–32:47]

• Angela: “Nearly all wars… the foundation is othering, the division between people… that was the foundation of Nazism, the foundation of discrimination, conflict, war.” [28:37]

• Both guests reflect on personal family reconciliation. Angela points to her Anglo-German parents’ marriage—complete with a German general and British naval officer at the wedding—as a living model of reconciliation and how love and heart can bridge traumatic divides.

7. Embracing Complexity: National Guilt and Nuance

[33:30–36:24]

• The hosts and guests agree that honest remembrance must be nuanced. British and German histories are not simply “goodies vs. baddies,” and every nation’s history contains elements of shame and pride.

  • “It’s OK to have a complicated relationship with your past… whether you’re British or German… It’s the rich nuance of history.” —James [33:39]
  • “Remembrance needs to be honest… and reconciliation is an ongoing process that you need to work at, day after day.” —Henry [35:06]

• Forgiveness and Reconciliation:

  • James recalls his mother’s advice: “I think generally speaking, one’s life is better if you better forgive.” [36:02]
  • Reference to “Mandela’s South Africa” as an example of power in forgiveness and the dangers of hatred.

8. The Ongoing Process and Generational Trauma

[36:24–39:15]

• Angela introduces “intergenerational trauma” and shame, suppressed in one generation, resurfacing in later ones.

  • “What is suppressed, unprocessed, unresolved. It doesn’t just go away, it comes out.” [38:04]

• War trauma persists far beyond armistices—affecting countries like Russia and Israel today.

9. No Glory in War—The Need for Humble Remembrance

[39:23–42:29]

• Al: “There is no glory in any of this. Because that’s often when Poppy Day comes around, you get people pushing back because they say it’s glorifying war. I can’t locate that in Armistice, but people do see it as that. There is no glory. This is all horror.” [39:23]

• Henry recalls how his famous grandfather, Monty, “knew war was a disgusting business… he wanted it to end.” [40:36]

• Even as a respected general, Monty carried trauma: “He probably carried that trauma buried until he died.” [40:52]

• The task after the destructive war—a more difficult job—was, as Monty said, “winning the peace.” [42:18]

10. Closing Thoughts and Notable Quotes

[41:03–42:29]

• Monty’s postwar message: “We’ve won the war, now we need to win the peace… a job we still need to do today.” [42:18]

• James: “Forgiveness is such a powerful healing tool… The lesson from the Second World War clearly, is about the catastrophe... The destruction, the death, the mayhem... that’s the warning.” [36:02–36:40]

• Angela: “Well, ignorance isn’t bliss.” [39:13]

Key Memorable Segments with Timestamps

• Angela’s personal catalyst for discovery: [05:02]
• Discussion of “othering” as the root of conflict: [28:37]
• Eisenhower’s “freedom is a flower” quote: [26:18]
• The ongoing process of reconciliation: [35:06]
• Forgiveness and generational healing: [36:02]
• No glory in war: [39:23]
• Monty’s shift to “winning the peace”: [42:18]

Tone and Takeaways

The episode blends empathy, wit, and candid honesty. It challenges listeners to accept a nuanced view of the past—one that recognizes both national trauma and the dangers of oversimplified narratives. The guests’ personal stories make clear that remembrance and reconciliation are active, never-finished processes, requiring humility, broad-mindedness, and, above all, willingness to face uncomfortable truths in pursuit of peace.

For those unable to listen to the episode, the central message is clear: Remembering WWII isn’t just about honor or victory parades—it’s about facing family histories, teaching the dangers of division, and insisting that the lessons of war inform us every day, not just once a year, so that its horrors are never repeated.