Okinawa '45: Allied Assault

Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Okinawa '45: Allied Assault
Release Date: June 16, 2025
Hosts: Comedian Al Murray and Historian James Holland
Podcast Description: Dive deep into WWII history with Al Murray and James Holland as they explore key battles, forgotten front lines, and incredible untold stories from the war that shaped the modern world.

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Introduction to the Battle of Okinawa

The episode kicks off with historian James Holland setting the stage for a comprehensive exploration of the Battle of Okinawa, highlighting its significance and scale. He introduces First Lieutenant Bill Looney, the executive officer for Charlie Company, 1st 5th Marines Regiment from the 1st Marine Division, who provides an insider perspective on the logistical marvels and massive scale of the Allied forces involved.

Notable Quote:
[01:03] James Holland: "All those ships and men have to arrive together at the right time and place, thousands of miles from the USA. Remarkable logistics."

Alleged Catastrophe: The Attack on USS Franklin

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the harrowing attack on the USS Franklin by Japanese dive bombers. James Holland narrates the event, detailing how a single bomb penetrated multiple decks, resulting in the tragic loss of around 100 crewmen. The attack exemplifies the intense and sudden nature of Japanese naval assaults during the Pacific Theater.

Notable Quote:
[04:53] James Holland: "The bombs punch through the flight deck and into the heart of the ship with catastrophic consequences worse than any other suffered that survived the Pacific War. Hundreds are killed instantly."

Despite the devastation, the USS Franklin showcases extraordinary resilience. Through relentless firefighting and repairs, the ship regained power within 24 hours, allowing it to sail to a safe anchorage, a testament to the superior training and engineering prowess of the US Navy.

Notable Quote:
[09:07] Al Murray: "All the while, work is furiously going on on the carrier. ... by 3am on the 20th of March, the Big Ben regains power and it would make 20 knots under its own steam."

Japanese Strategies and the 32nd Army’s Resilience

The discussion shifts to the Japanese defense strategies under Lieutenant General Mitsuru Ushijima of the 32nd Army. Unlike previous defenses at Iwo Jima and Peleliu, Ushijima opts for a strategy of defense in depth, relying heavily on tunnels, bunkers, and natural caves to inflict maximum casualties on the invading forces. This approach aims to prolong the battle, thereby draining Allied resources and morale.

Notable Quote:
[28:23] James Holland: "Okinawa is defended by the 32nd army under Lieutenant General Mitsuru Ushijima. Originally he's planned not to concede the beaches or even airfields and wait for the Japanese to come to them on ground of his own choosing."

Operational Preparations: Operation Iceberg

Operation Iceberg, the codename for the Allied assault on Okinawa, begins with meticulous planning and preparation. James Holland and Al Murray delve into the complexities of moving over 200 warships, 600,000 men, and the staggering logistical challenge of supplying six million barrels of fuel per month, all transported from the United States across vast distances.

Notable Quote:
[25:05] Al Murray: "This vast Allied fleet is burning 6 million barrels of fuel per month. 6 million."

They also highlight the critical role of Ulithi, a US Navy base that serves as a pivotal logistics hub, enabling the leapfrogging of forces across the Pacific. The rapid construction of facilities by the Seabees underscores the urgency and scale of the operation.

Notable Quote:
[12:05] James Holland: "Ulithi is a major US Navy base... it's loaded with docking piers, camps, and extensive facilities built in a matter of months."

Japanese Air Resistance and Kamikaze Tactics

Despite significant losses, the Japanese Imperial Air Fleet, under Admiral Motomi Ugaki, continues to resist fiercely. The adoption of kamikaze tactics, involving pilots conducting one-way suicide attacks, poses a persistent threat to Allied naval operations. The episode details several kamikaze attacks, including on the USS Randolph and USS New York, highlighting both their devastating impact and the psychological toll on the Allied forces.

Notable Quote:
[13:56] James Holland: "The attackers have flown from Kyushu... it's one of 24 Kamikaze planes that took off as part of Operation Tan 10."

Leadership Under Strain: Admiral Spruance and Admiral Turner

The episode examines the leadership dynamics within the Allied command. Admiral Raymond A. Spruance oversees Task Force 58, orchestrating the naval bombardments and air strikes essential for softening Japanese defenses. Simultaneously, Admiral Richmond Kelly Turner leads Task Force 51, responsible for transporting the massive invasion force. Turner, portrayed as a battle-hardened yet weary commander, exemplifies the human cost of prolonged military engagements.

Notable Quote:
[40:22] James Holland: "Admiral Spruance has argued for the assault at Okinawa and it persuaded both Nimitz and King. And he's another one of these sort of big men."

Logistical Overload and Strategic Challenges

The sheer scale of Operation Iceberg presents immense logistical challenges. Coordinating over 1,200 ships, managing fuel supplies, and ensuring uninterrupted support for the invading forces are depicted as monumental tasks. The episode underscores how these challenges are compounded by the relentless Japanese resistance and the looming threat of further kamikaze attacks.

Notable Quote:
[24:33] James Holland: "This is, this is a kind of delaying operation. That's all it is. You know, there's no question that they're going to win."

Human Cost and Civilian Involvement

A poignant segment addresses the devastating impact of the battle on Okinawan civilians. With around 300,000 civilians trapped in the southern half of the island, many are coerced into defense roles or forced into brutal conditions. The narrative highlights the tragic human cost, emphasizing the brutal nature of the conflict and the immense suffering endured by both soldiers and civilians.

Notable Quote:
[34:18] James Holland: "Women and children are ordered to safe areas so as not to become operational obstacles, because it was not acceptable to lose in battle to save civilian lives."

Closing and Teaser for Next Episode

As the episode draws to a close, Al Murray humorously contrasts the operational name "Iceberg" with "lettuces," reflecting on the complexity and gravity of the impending invasion. James Holland provides a brief overview of the impending invasion day, setting the stage for the next episode, which will delve deeper into the naval aspects of the Battle of Okinawa.

Notable Quote:
[47:40] Al Murray: "So L day arrives Sunday the 1st of April, 1945. Easter Day, April Fool's Day."

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Conclusion

This episode of "We Have Ways of Making You Talk" offers an in-depth and gripping analysis of the Battle of Okinawa, blending expert historical insights with engaging commentary. Al Murray and James Holland meticulously unpack the strategic, logistical, and human elements of one of WWII's most formidable and tragic battles. Through detailed narratives and impactful quotes, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the complexities and sacrifices that defined the Allied assault on Okinawa.

For more detailed explorations of WWII battles and untold stories, join the membership club at patreon.com/wehaveways or visit www.goalhanger.com for additional Goalhanger Podcasts.

Transcript

[James Holland]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com wehaveways.

[Al Murray]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Al Murray]

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[Bill Looney]

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[Gordon Carrera]

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[James Holland]

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[Al Murray]

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[James Holland]

This is the.

[David McCloskey]

Largest open seas on martyr in history. Seven divisions and the whole Pacific Fleet. 1457 ships and half a million men. Think about this. All those ships and men have to arrive together at the right time and place, thousands of miles from the usa. Remarkable logistics. The seven divisions all come from different places and are all on ships. An awesome sight. Then there were the warships, carriers, battleships and cruisers and lots of destroyers. There are also some 40 submarines that had been in the operation and had transported the underwater personnel who had worked under barriers. I am sure the public did not realize the size of the Okinawa operation. In some ways it was bigger than D day.

[James Holland]

And that was of course First Lieutenant Bill Looney. He's the executive officer for Charlie Company, 1st 5th Marines Regiment from the 1st Marine Division.

[Al Murray]

The old breed.

[James Holland]

Yes, welcome to we have ways to make you talk and the one word Okinawa.

[Al Murray]

It is quite simply the biggest battle of the Pacific. Yep, it's huge. It's absolutely huge. And it's three dimensional, as all amphibious operations are, but much more so than most, I think, you know, air, land and sea. The naval battle is just off the scale. It's so dramatic. There's so much going on. The ground battle is a is a complete horror story that involves native Okinawans as well as the 32nd Japanese army as well as the US 10th army, which is a combined army and Marine ground force. You've also got the British Pacific Fleet, let's not forget them, also involved in this. This is enormous in its scale and complexity and it is only right that this 80th anniversary of 1945 we do a bit of a Number on Okinawa, to be fair. They're also going to be tackling Burma, of course. Yeah, yeah, but Okinawa, it's a biggie. You can't do Iwo Jima and Peleliu and not do Okinawa.

[James Holland]

Well, and also a thing we've been talking about a lot lately on the podcast is the decision to drop the atomic bomb. If you want to know why, listen to these episodes.

[Al Murray]

Well, quite, yeah. We're going to begin going back a little bit in time because Operation Iceberg, as the American assault on Okinawa is codenamed, begins on Easter Sunday 1st of April 1945, April Fool's Day. But inevitably with these things, the preparations begin a little bit earlier than that and we're going to be turning to 0710 hours on the morning of Monday 19th March 1945. So there's a low cloud ceiling of 1010 cloud around 2000ft covering the ocean in what were ideal conditions for the aircraft of the Japanese Imperial Navy's 5th Air Fleet to attack. 5th Air Fleet is based on Kyushi, the southernmost island of the kind of mainland of Japan. And down below, just a few miles off the south coast of the island of Shikoku, was much of Task Force 58, a huge fleet of the U.S. navy. And they're waiting for their own fighters return from attacking targets on Kyushu where there's plentiful Japanese airfields.

[James Holland]

Suddenly, a swarm of Japanese bombers appears. They've got past the combat Air patrol above the cap and they hit the USS Wasp of Task Group 581 with a single bomb that penetrates three decks before detonating and killing around 100 crewmen. Minutes later, a Yokosuka D4Y Suisei Dive Bomber hurtles through the cloud base at about 1,000 yards ahead of the carrier USS Franklin, which is the carrier for Admiral Ralph Davidson's Task Group 58. And it drops two 250 kilogram bombs before the anti aircraft gunners can react, pops out of the low cloud. You haven't got time to spot and react, have you? That's the thing. No, this low cloud is absolutely perfect for ambushing ships.

[Al Murray]

Exactly.

[James Holland]

If the dive bombers can find them, they have the whip hand here. The bombs punch through the flight deck and into the heart of the ship with catastrophic consequences worse than any other suffered that survived the Pacific War. Hundreds are killed instantly.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I mean it's an absolute horror story. And the USS Franklin is one of the big aircraft carriers and it's known as the Big Ben after Benjamin Franklin. And how it works is you've got Task Group 58, which is huge. This is the big carrier strike force. So it's an outsider fleet, effectively.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

It is absolutely enormous and it's divided into different task groups within.

[James Holland]

Because it's so enormous.

[Al Murray]

Task force, because it's so enormous. So you've got task group 58.1, you've got task group 58.2, 58.3, 58.4 and there's even 58.5, which is a kind of sort of night operations thing. So typically these task groups would have, you know, maybe a couple of aircraft carriers, some cruisers, screening destroyers each. What's really interesting is each of these task groups is about the same size as the British Pacific Fleet.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And the size of the Royal Navy now. Full stop.

[Al Murray]

Full stop. Yes.

[James Holland]

It's extraordinary, isn't it? Yeah. This attack is so sudden that Captain Leslie Gears, who's on the bridge, doesn't see either the bombs or the dive bombers before the explosions because they've been perfectly ambushed. Ordnance and service ammunition on the anti aircraft mounts cooks off, which then causes more explosions. A number of Hellcats armed with Tiny Tim rockets as they're called, or also catch fire and those begin fizzing off. I mean, just imagine it's the inferno, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Commander Joe Taylor, who is the xo, the second in command, says some scream by the stabboard, some to port and some straight up the flight deck. The weird aspect of this weapon whooshing by so close is one of the most awful spectacles a human has ever been privileged to see. Some went straight and some tumbled over end over end. Each time one went off, firefighting crews forward would instinctively hit the deck.

[James Holland]

Yeah, he's not interstating the obvious, but that is the obvious. And then other ships in the task group are watching this in.

[Al Murray]

Well, because you're seeing, you know, from quite a long way. You can see the explosions and you can see towers of sort of rolling black smoke rising above them. It sort of pinpoints it very, very obviously.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Admiral Arthur W. Radford is on board the Yorktown from Task Group 58. Four is 15 miles away and he's watching it through his binoculars.

[David McCloskey]

We could not believe that anyone remained alive on a ship undergoing such travail. I mentally said goodbye to my classmate Admiral Davison and to Franklin skipper, my friend, Captain Leslie Gears.

[James Holland]

And from Yorktown, nine enormous explosions accounted. And one sailor said, that's all, brother.

[David McCloskey]

We can tell Big Ben goodbye.

[Al Murray]

You know, I don't know why I'm LAUGHING it's just.

[James Holland]

Well, here we are again, Jim. I'm struck again by people thousands upon thousands of miles away from the United States of America, perishing in this inferno in a war they didn't start, that they didn't want. When we've been touring the Victory 45 book, we've talked an awful lot about isolationist America and how it's turned around. These are people who are isolationists five minutes ago, just a few years ago. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing to remember, isn't it? And that points to why getting the war over is the thing they're really, really, really keen on.

[Al Murray]

And the other thing that strikes you on this whole battle of Okinawa, the thing that's really struck me, sort of reading up on it all, is just this incredible levels of courage by both sides. Yeah, it's truly awe inspiring. And not least now on the USS Franklin, because Captain Gez decides to try and save his ship rather than abandoning it. The cruiser the USS Santa Fe comes alongside and takes off. Many of the crew, including Admiral Davison and his staff, who after all is, you know, a task group commander, and far control parties then working tirelessly and in immense danger. But Incredibly, by about 11am they managed to subsist aside most of the flames to a point where the cruiser USS Pittsburgh manages to kind of link up with the Franklin and take it off in tow. And soon after, the carrier is making three knots. And the amazing thing about this is, of course, it's being towed by the Pittsburgh. But all the while, work is furiously going on on the carrier. You know, no one's idle. You know, they're working down in the engine rooms. They're kind of mending stuff, repairing stuff, pairing wiring and all this kind of stuff so that by 3am on the 20th of March, so less than 24 hours after it's been hit, the Big Ben regains power and it would make 20 knots under its own steam. And it's that ability to not only kind of, you know, be immensely courageous, but also the engineering clout to be able to keep these ships going at sea even when they've been kind of very, very badly stricken. All the way that it goes, it. First of all, it goes to Ulithe, a safe anchorage and port on an atoll in the central southern Pacific. So it's about 1600 miles away from kind of Okinawa, and all the way that any witnesses that see it could scarcely believe that the Franklin is afloat. You know, it's just this sort of and wreck where some of the Wreckage is fused to the ship, such as being the heat of the flames. And incredibly, 807 men are killed and 487 wounded in that. In that attack. So that's half the compound. And Chester Nemetz, you know, the commander in chief Pacific, says no other ship in World War II and possibly in history suffered such extensive injuries and yet remained afloat. I mean, it's just. I guess it's the point I was making. It kind of speaks of the superb training of the US Navy, you know.

[James Holland]

Yeah. But also the way the Americans have turned things around from. Again, from a kind of a standing start. The US Navy was in five years or in three years, in two years even, has expanded and ended up with this incredible capacity and skill. It's extraordinary, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

And, you know, the other thing that I think is really clear that you've got sort of courageous, brave, enlightened commanders, naval commanders now. I mean, you know, these people are of highest caliber from. From Nimitz down to these individual captains like Captain Gares. I mean, these are people who know the sea backwards, who know what they're about, have embraced modern technology, you know, work as a team. And I think that's key to the whole thing. You know, you're working into the team of your particular task group, but you're also part of a wider team, which is your task force, and then an even wider team beyond that, which is, of course, the Pacific Fleet. But this attack on the USS Franklin on 19 March, of course, is also a reminder that this is a war that is not done yet. You know, the Japanese might be all but beaten, but they still got plenty of fire in them, and there's plenty of violence to come, and it's going to reach a crescendo in the forthcoming battle for Okinawa.

[James Holland]

And that this attack might be termed conventional. And the Japanese have something unconventional that may be more effective up their sleeve.

[Al Murray]

Indeed.

[James Holland]

So Task Force 58 had returned to Ulithi after the end of the Iwo Jima battle. Ulithi is a major US Navy base on a tiny atoll in the Caroline Islands between Marianas and the Marshall Islands in the western Pacific, north of New Guinea. So one of these pimples in the middle of the middle of nowhere, that's actually incredibly important. It allows the Americans to leapfrog across the Pacific. Base been built for nothing following unopposed landings there in September 1944. It's amazing, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

It's absolutely incredible. In a matter of months, it's just kind of Boom, it's there.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, it's US Navy Seabees. So sappers essentially from the 18th Special Battalion arrive on the 1st of October and then the 88th Naval Construction Battalion on the 11th of November. They build a large recreation base for 20,000 personnel. Docking piers, camps.

[Al Murray]

I literally can't get my head around this.

[James Holland]

I wonder if it's better. If you look on Google Maps you can Google Earth, it's all still there. A 1600 seat theater at 100 bed hospital with a large anchorage. I think one would have heard of Elephant had there been fighting for it, but there isn't. So it's just one of those places in the story of the Second World.

[Al Murray]

War that it's a US Naval base and that's it.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it's plain forgotten about, but it's incredibly important because it's part of the operational side of things. And operational art is you've no option but to engage with it if you're fighting a naval war. Yep, it's all operational. They have a short period of rest and refit. But on the 11th of March, Admiral Jock Clark on the flight deck of the USS Hornet in Task Group 58.1.

[Al Murray]

Still at ULIFI.

[James Holland]

Yeah. An hour after sunset and suddenly, and we said a kamikaze aircraft appears low in the sky and flies straight into the USS Randolph, which is another Essex class carrier. Puts a 40 foot hole in the deck. 27 men are killed and 14 aircraft destroyed. This is the beginning of a completely unexpected. And if you thought was going on with the Yorktown was bad for kamikaze bombing, you don't require those perfect conditions. All you require is a pilot willing to.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, you can go further because you're not. You haven't got to do a return trip.

[James Holland]

You go further because you haven't got a return trip. And you don't need skill in dive bombing either. You don't need to work the parabolas and all that. So the attackers have flown from kyushu which is 1600 miles away on a one way mission. This plane is one of 24 Kamikaze planes that took off as part of Operation Tan 10. Suffered from engine problems. Yeah, right. And turned back.

[Al Murray]

Oh no. Oh yeah. I just, you know, I'd love to go and kill myself.

[James Holland]

The oil pressure by oil pressure. Oh no. I'm sorry, this seems to be. I can't lower my undercarriage again. Well you don't need to lower your undercarriage again. Yeah. But several others disappear en route. I bet they do. But one lone bomber finally hits The Randolph at 6:52pm as ever, because no one knows what's going on on the other side of the hill. The Imperial Japanese Navy 5th Air Fleet staff, they conclude 11American carriers must have been struck. In fact, it's just one.

[Al Murray]

Well, we've talked a lot about delusion in recent episodes and you know, one of the things that is just absolutely breathtaking is, is the delusion of the Imperial Japanese Headquarters and what's going on at the kind of high command levels. It is absolutely nuts.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Be that as it may, despite the attack on the Randolph, the whole of Task Force 58 is back out at sea on the 14th of March under Admiral Mick Mitcher, who's a tough old bird if ever there was one. And his flag is on the USS Bunker Hill. So there are these four main task groups, 58.1 to 58.4, and then there's, as I mentioned earlier, the 58.5, which is the kind of sort of night operation, smaller one. Their task is to absolutely hammer Japanese air bases on Kyushu, Shikoku and southern part of Honshu of the main Japanese home islands. Head of Operation Iceberg, which is, as we mentioned, the invasion of Okinawa and L Day, Love Day, not D day, is scheduled for the 1st of April. So this is very much the kind of softening up operations.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And you know, no one is expecting it to be easy. You know, they're dominating the skies and you know, they've got the upper hand. But these crazy Japanese and their kamikazes, etcetera, Are still posing a massive threat.

[James Holland]

Yeah, the Japanese have other ideas, don't they? And what it's all about for the Japanese by now is making it too difficult and too bloody for the Americans. Yeah, they're close to achieving that, is the truth.

[Al Murray]

But what is absolutely not happening anymore is there are no aircraft carriers that are operable. You know, amazing when you think how crucial that was to the whole Imperial Japanese Navy's strategy, the start of the war. You know, whatever planes are taking off, they're taking off from southern Japan and that means Kyushu and Shikoku and places like that. So.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And what's left of the Japanese air force is now combined into the Japanese Air fleet, which is commanded by Admiral Motomi Ugaki who is obviously a naval officer. But there are both Imperial Japanese army and Imperial Japanese Navy units in this. And this is much the same way that kind of, you know, U.S. army and U.S. marine Corps are operating side by side and ground operations, the same kind of thing, same principle. I Suppose, and Ugaki is based at Kanoya Air Base, so he has corralled almost all the surviving aircraft that the Japanese have. And their job is to kind of try and delay invading the home island as long as possible. But there's some debate over this, you know, it's not straightforward.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Two weeks earlier though, Tokyo had ordered that the best and most experienced air squadrons be kept back from invasion of the home islands, not to be used against a mere carrier raid. So even if American Navy, US Navy planes appear over the homeland, Japanese pilots were to resist the urge to engage. So they're saving them up basically. Anti fighter plane combat for the purpose of air defense of strategic points will not be carried out in principle with combat strength except when the situation is particularly favorable or when it is urgently needed.

[Al Murray]

But what you do see is increasingly is greater fractiousness at command level at this time.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, people are not just taking it on the chin in the way they used to. And you gaki amazingly just decides to completely ignore this because he says, well this is absolutely crazy because if his airfields are completely destroyed and the aircraft destroyed, then he won't be able to carry out any scouting patrols and he won't be able to defend Kyushi, you know, that have been destroyed on the ground without putting up any fight at all. So, you know, he thinks actually no, so this, I'm going to counter attack with entire strength.

[James Holland]

Yes. I mean, Japanese officers are pretty liberal with their orders, aren't they?

[Al Murray]

Often, yeah.

[James Holland]

And can frame it in terms of, you know, I'm doing the right thing for the Emperor, regardless of the orders of the people in between me and the Emperor, can't they? That's how they tend to do it. So before dawn on the 18th of March, 90 miles south of Kyushu, 130 Hellcats and Corsairs are launched.

[Al Murray]

These are US Navy fighter planes.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And the latest. They're fast, they're agile, they're absolutely full to the gunnels with 50 caliber machine guns and they can take bombs and all sorts of.

[James Holland]

Well, the Vought Corsair is a proper unit, isn't it?

[Bill Looney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

It's absolutely amazing.

[James Holland]

And there's little opposition of few aircraft on the ground, so they mainly strike ground installations. There's a second round of strikes that same afternoon of the 18th of March further inland. And the US Navy air crew claim 102 enemy aircraft shot down, 275 destroyed on the ground.

[Al Murray]

This is clearly kind of exaggerated, but yeah, you know, potentially not massively so.

[James Holland]

Yeah. With a slight pinch of salt. But basically they're dominant. That's the point. However, little opposition and few aircraft gone, ground is the clue. However, that same afternoon, Imperial Japanese Navy pilots come through the thick cloud and hit USS Enterprise and Yorktown Intrepid is also hit. The three carriers manage to contain the damage, but the Americans are unnerved to find there are still enemy pilots who can pull this stuff off.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, clearly, enemy pilots are clearly experienced. You know, these are not rookies where they've done it. And I think that's, it's more the kind of the skill of the Japanese pilots that's really shocked them rather than the fact that the pilots have appeared.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, and that's the same day of course, that they strike Franklin and Wasp that we were talking about earlier on.

[James Holland]

Yeah. So on the morning of the 19th of March, the Americans then attack Japanese warships anchored at Kure and Hiroshima in the Inland Sea. I mean people like to say Hiroshima has never been involved in the atomic bomb is the first time it's troubled by the war. That's not the case.

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

U.S. navy pilots, they have a bad time of it. Two squadrons of Hellcats are ambushed from behind by elite pilots, the 343rd Kokutai, flying the new Kawanishi N1K 2s. A dozen American planes lost.

[Al Murray]

Well, that's quite a big hit. That's quite a big hit in one go.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And lots of anti aircraft fire over Kure as, as well. The Americans lose 60 planes that day.

[Al Murray]

I mean it's, it's a lot, isn't it?

[James Holland]

Yeah, it is a lot. And, and when you consider that to replace that aircraft, it's got to come all the way across the Pacific. Yeah. You know, these are precious assets, aren't they?

[Al Murray]

Well, yeah, and the pilots have got to come all the way across the.

[James Holland]

Pacific too, you know, and if you're shot down and taken prisoner, it's no picnic is the other thing.

[Al Murray]

Put it mildly. Yeah. But there's no getting away from the fact. But you know, that's what they're there to do and you know, no one is expecting it to be easy. And, and you know, this is all part of the softening up operations for Okinawa. And the idea is that by reducing the airfields on Kyushu particularly, you know, their lives will be easier when it comes to the invasion of, of the island of Okinawa. That's the plan. And in two days of strikes, Task Force 58 that hit Japanese airfields, ports, warships destroyed as many as 400 enemy aircraft, but they had had a pasting in return. You know, there's no getting away from it. Six aircraft carriers hit and damaged, three of which needed major repairs and were now out of action. That's the Enterprise of Wasp and the Franklin. So Mitscher actually Admiral Mitcher actually decides to pull back before the planned third day of strikes. So most of the task force then RVs with their service squadron 150 miles southeast of Okinawa for refueling and rearming and so on and prepping for Iceberg. So that's the other aspect of this is, you know, it's all very well having the naval base of uliffi kind of 1600 miles away, but you also need service squadrons 150 miles away. So that's like your A echelon, you know, your immediate backup troops rather than your B echelon which are kind of sort of in the rear. And you know, the logistics of that are obviously enough to make your head hurt a bit.

[James Holland]

Yeah, well, so while your head's hurting, we will take a brief break and we'll be back with the plan for operation Iceberg. Did you do better operational names? The Americans, let's face it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, well, I think so. It's good, I mean, but I'm not really thinking of icebergs, I'm just thinking of lettuces.

[James Holland]

We'll see you in a ticket. What is dadication?

[Ryan Reynolds]

The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him day date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together, we did a good job.

[James Holland]

That's dedication. Find out [e-mail] brought to you by.

[David McCloskey]

The U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

[Gordon Carrera]

Hello, I'm Gordon Carrera, national security journalist.

[Bill Looney]

And I'm David McCloskey, CIA analyst turned spy novelist.

[Gordon Carrera]

Together we're the co hosts of another goal hanger show called the Rest is Classified where we bring you the best stories from the world of secrets and spies.

[Bill Looney]

We have just released a series on the decade decades long battle between the CIA and Osama Bin Laden. And this week we are stepping into the devastation of the 911 terror attacks to understand how Osama Bin Laden was able to carry out such a plot right under the nose of the CIA.

[Gordon Carrera]

It was a moment that changed global politics forever. Shifting the focus of spy agencies away from nation states towards hunting for terrorists and understanding the extremist ideology that drove them.

[Bill Looney]

We will then go into the decade long manhunt for Osama Bin Laden which culminated in a dramatic raid at his compound in Pakistan in 2011 which killed the world's most wanted terrorist.

[Gordon Carrera]

So if all of this sounds good, we've got a clip waiting for you at the end of the episode.

[James Holland]

Welcome back to we have Ways of Making youg Talk With Me. I'm Murray. James Holland. Now, Jim's thinking lettuce. I'm thinking how iceberg is the perfect name for an operation like this where there is the tip of the iceberg, the bit doing the fighting, then the enormous bulk of operational effort and art beneath that tip of the iceberg to make it come off. But you can stick with your lettuce if you want Jim.

[Al Murray]

Well, I don't want to at all. It's just the center of my mind. I can't get it out. I much prefer your version. That's the truth of it.

[James Holland]

This is the point is that every, every American operation in the Pacific, expeditionary warfare in Europe, everything's got to get across the Channel. Oh it's got to get across the Atlantic to the UK and then across to Britain and then across the Channel. But what we're looking at here is an army of 183,000 men, which is army and Marine Corps people plus 120,000 service troops and engineers. It's a logistical fleet of 1200 plus ships.

[Al Murray]

So that's your transports and your supplies and your victuals.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah. And There's Task Force 58 plus the British Pacific Fleet, 200 warships. You want to compare the distances crossing the English channel. It's 6100 miles from San Francisco is Okinawa. I mean it's 850 miles from Iwo Jima, it's 920 miles from Manila, it's 1400 miles from Guam and it's 1400 miles from Ulithi. These distances.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, it is huge. And also just one comparison, 200 warships. Okay, so on D day there's 1,213.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

So there's almost 80 more in the Pacific waters around Genauer than there were on D day. I mean. Yeah, just think about what that looks like, you know, 200 warships.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it's extraordinary.

[Al Murray]

It's immense.

[James Holland]

One of the key distances though in all this is they're only 330 miles from Kyushu. So this is if you're looking at the island hopping towards the mainland this is, this is one of the most important hops possible.

[Al Murray]

And here's a stat for you.

[James Holland]

Oh, I love this.

[Al Murray]

So this vast Allied fleet is burning 6 million barrels of fuel per month. 6 million. And every single one has to be transported from the US in tankers.

[James Holland]

Incredible.

[Al Murray]

It is absolutely incredible. Just defies all logistical logic.

[James Holland]

Yes. And again, this is to take this small island. What's it going to take to take the Japanese mainland? Well, heaven.

[Al Murray]

Well, exactly. So should we have a look at Okinawa?

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

I mean, you know, we keep banding about this place, but what is it? How long is it, how wide is it? What does it look like? So one one TBM Avenger crewman describes Okinawa as a dainty island with crumpled hills, thickly wood sloping down to a neat crazy quilt of tan and green farmland. That makes it sound quite nice, doesn't it? It's long and thin, really, with little sort of bits that stick out. So it's, it's 60 miles long and sometimes it's 15 miles wide and, and sometimes it's only 3 miles wide. Total area 480 square miles.

[James Holland]

Have you been there?

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

You've not been?

[Al Murray]

No. Quite like TiVo.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, of course. And it's sparsely populated, heavily forested. The northern half, 80% of the pre war population live in the southern half.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And that's where the main towns are and whatnot.

[James Holland]

The economy's fishing and farming. Sugar cane, rice, yams, barley, cabbages, oaks and pines make up the trees there. There's few paved roads and the locals are still using horses and carts.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But four airfields?

[Al Murray]

Well, yes, and most of these have been built by the Japanese the previous year. They're obviously all out of action by March 1945. You know, Naha have been hammered the previous October. This is an island that's been regularly visited by the Super Forts, the B29s, over and over. So, you know, there's not much left. There's two main towns, Naha and Shuri. There's also the kind of the ancient castle of Shuri as well. The southern half of the island, sort of rugged, with sort of soaring ridges, plunging ravines, rocky escarpments and natural caves, which makes you think anyone attacking it, you're just going to think, oh, you know, where have we seen that before? CF Peleliu and Iwo Jim, etc. So the 1940 population is around 800,000, but a large number were actually evacuated, so they've been sent to Kyushu and to Formosa and Nimitz. Intelligence suggests there's only around 65,000 Japanese troops on the island, but actually it's more like 100,000. So actually there's 75,000 troops of the Japanese 32nd army and about 25,000 local militia. And Okinawa is part of Japan. It's fully incorporated in Japan, but. But only since 1879, when the entire Ryuku archipelago was annexed. So this does make the Okinawans culturally, racially, and linguistically quite different from their northern mainland neighbors. And perhaps unsurprisingly, you know, the mainland Japanese regard these sort of hicks as rather inferior.

[James Holland]

Yeah. But nevertheless, people who are caught up in their war, it's not like they're saying, fine, you can have these inferior Japanese people. They're still going to get caught up with it. I mean, now the Japanese decide they're going to. As at Peleliu and Iwo Jima, they're going to do defense in depth, because after all, you have high, rocky terrain which is well back from the beaches. There's no point opposing the landing. Not when you can bleed the Americans once they're ashore.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly.

[James Holland]

And Okinawa is defended by the 32nd army under Lieutenant General Mitsuru Oshijima. And originally he's planned not to concede the beaches or even airfields and wait for the Japanese to come to them on ground of his own choosing. And he's not going to use his heavy artillery until the invaders are well in land. This is all based around knowing you're going to lose, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Can't save the island, hasn't got deep pockets in terms of ammunition, so that. The point is, what he's going to do is just fight to the last round and make it as disgusting and unpalatable for the Americans as he possibly can.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. There is a difference between Palelua and Iwo Jima, because at Iwo Jima and Peleliu, they did at least assault the attackers when they landed.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

They then retreated to their honeycomb web of tunnels, etc. But they did attack in the initial. Wait. Ushijima's thinking there's not even point in doing that.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, what's the point of saving the airfields when we're going to use them? They're wrecked anyway. What's the point? Let's wait for them to come to us so that they're coming to the ground of our choosing. And also then we can conserve our ammunition to have the greatest effect. Because his absolute aim is to drag this out as long as possible and exact as heavy a price on the attackers as possible. But it's interesting because this plan is only implemented right at the very end of 1944. But again, part of this sort of rising, kind of almost insubordination from lower command, you know, commanders lower down the food chain, such as an army commander compared to Imperial General Headquarters in Tokyo, you know, he is going against the grain of what it is that IGH has envisioned for Okinawa. You know, and initially in the early part of 1944, Imperial General Headquarters is envisioning Okinawa as a sort of massive, 60 mile long, unsinkable aircraft carrier. And that's why they've been furiously building all these extra airfields, which is why you got four. Yeah, but obviously Tokyo never accepts a major flaw in this strategy that you can't be defending successfully against relentless juggernaut of United States Navy amphibious operations. I mean, you know, you just can't.

[James Holland]

Well, it's essentially as if they've lost the Battle of Malta already, isn't it? Yeah, in effect, it's. They're trying to use it as a malta, but they haven't even made a standing start. And it is interesting, isn't it, that nevertheless no one at any point is thinking of abandoning Okinawa?

[Al Murray]

No, they're not thinking of abandoning it. They're just thinking how can we be most effective here? And you know, there's clearly plenty of grumbling at 32nd army headquarters. And one of Ushijima's staff notes, it was as if our ground forces had sweated and strained to construct airfields as a gift for the enemy. Now why are they wasting their time building airfields which they're never going to use and which eventually are only going to be used by the Americans? You know, why are we doing this? By kind of November 1944, Shijima's staff are pushing for a complete rethink on this 32nd army headquarters in a bunker underneath Shuri Castle. And Colonel Hiromichi Yahara, who's a senior operations officer at 32nd army headquarter, has argued that they just simply don't have enough strength to defend the beaches, planes or airfields. So instead persuades Iijima towards a revised defense plan, which is then issued to 32nd army on 26th November 1944. But they do this without approval from Imperial General Headquarters in Tokyo. Yeah, they're just doing it anyway.

[James Holland]

So they opt for. It's a system of tunnels, bunkers, pillboxes, trenches, tanks of a honeycomb of interlinked caves, all interlinked with tunnels. And at the heart of it is the Shuri Castle, which is the ancient seat of the Ryuk kings, and Ushijima's command post, bunkers on the reverse slope of the ridge near the castle. And basically they've built a thing, an extremely tough nut to crack. And that negates lots of the American advantages. Right. Once you're engaged in this battle, American control of the air is kind of.

[Al Murray]

Who cares?

[James Holland]

But it's just nowhere near as important as it could be.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, well, it is. Who cares? So the ground battle, that's for sure.

[James Holland]

So it's three concentric rings of fortifications around Shuri Castle with sweeping fields of fire. Ian Toll, the writer, calls it a Pacific Verdun.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And he's onto something. I mean, this, the other thing is this, these Japanese soldiers. This is very, very hard work building all this.

[Al Murray]

Oh, my God, can you imagine?

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

There's no concrete here. This is, you know, so. So the front of the bunkers are, you know, the embouchures of these caves are lined with pine logs which have been cut from the northern part of the. Of the island. Then they've got kind of huge camouflage of branches and trees and camouflage netting and all the rest of it. And the heavy guns can be. Can be brought into. Into different positions. So they've got a sort of quite a bit of 360, but a very wide arc of fire. And they can also pull them back into the caves.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, the artillery is. Is among the. The best troops left in the Imperial Japanese Army. So, you know, they're going to be a really, really tough nut. I mean, this, this is a kind of defensive network that the Americans are going to have to clear bunker by bunker, tunnel by tunnel, ravine by ravine, ridgeline by ridgeline, and it's going to be completely unforgiving.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Now, there are civilians, of course, as we said, on the island.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

In March, that most of them have evacuated north. But you've also, if you're a civilian there, and even though you're held in low regard by your fellow Japanese citizens, you're now part of the defense militia. Every civilian is told to try and kill 10 enemy soldiers before being killed themselves.

[Al Murray]

In other words. Oh, and by the way, you will get killed as well.

[James Holland]

Women and children are ordered to safe areas so as not to become operational obstacles, because it was not. It's not acceptable to lose in battle to save civilian lives. I mean, honestly.

[Al Murray]

Well, at least I know where they stand, I suppose.

[James Holland]

Yeah. The way you stand is.

[Al Murray]

It's brutal, isn't it? It's absolutely brutal.

[James Holland]

It's a death culture.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Hundreds of teenage school children immobilize as a student corps with serving as cooks, messengers, laborers, and nurses. All Okinawans between 17 and 45 are conscripted into a new defense corps, and they're told what's going to happen to them if the Americans get their hands on them. They're told all these horror stories, aren't there?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Whatever they can do to mobilize people. And by the end of March, 300,000 civilians are in the southern half of the island. And without sufficient food stockpiles, they're just.

[Al Murray]

Not ready for this. And that's because the 32nd army has only got one use for these Okinawan civilians, and that's as defenders. You know, they're not interested in their personal liberties or anything like that. No, it's all about preparing for the onslaught when the Americans come, Making it as long as possible. And the 32nd army are all preparing for imminent demise, and so should the Okinawans. That's the brutal truth of it. But clearly, a human catastrophe is in the making. And. And so it is. I mean, crikey.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it's completely horrendous, all this. Now, there isn't. There is a Japanese air strategy which.

[Al Murray]

Has been devised by yugaki, and that is that the imperial Japanese navy aircraft would target enemy warships, and the imperial Japanese army aircraft will target the transports. And this will be done in a crossover between conventional bombers and fighter planes and one trip kamikaze attacks. So flight cadets are being hurried through training and then sent straight to strike squadrons and then invited to volunteer as kamikazes. So, you know, the old days of 500 hours training, before you reach your frontline squadron, they have long gone. And the plan is just really simple. It's to keep the fighting on Okinawa for as long as possible. And this means that the allied fleet is going to be forced to remain in the area for duration, which then puts a greater strain on it logistically and gives the Japanese greater opportunity to attack them. Japan's last hope is to degrade the enemy's preponderance and ships, aircraft, and men to obstruct the establishment of advanced bases to undermine enemy morale and thereby seriously delay the final assault on Japan. So there you have it. This is a gargantuan delaying operation. That's all it is. You know, there's no question that they're going to win.

[James Holland]

No. In the western theater, we always say, just give up. When are they just going to give up? We're actually well beyond that here, aren't we?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

Because everything Hitler's doing is framed in terms of we will finally triumph.

[Al Murray]

That this isn't, is it?

[James Holland]

Not at all.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. It's just totally crazy. Absolutely crazy. But anyway, so nearly all the air power that the Japanese still have is in the hands of the 5th Air Fleet under Admiral Yugaki, as we already mentioned is at Kanoya Air Base in southern Kyushu. And it's a kind of mixed force, you know, 600 plus strong varying times. It's hard to keep tabs on it because of the numbers just keep getting shot down. Then more come through. You know what is also extraordinary is the rate of replenishment that's going on at this time. But of course, with that rapid replenishment also comes a massive drop in quality. And you know, these are not well trained pilots by this stage. Anyone new coming to it, you know, they're prone to deadly accidents. Weather constantly interrupts. You know, this is. This is not like flying in Florida or Texas or whatever. This is much more kind of European in style in terms of kind of the vagaries of the weather. And training is constantly interrupted and the air crews are generally in a bad way despite receiving the kind of priority allocations of fuel and supplies. And for example, on 27 February, Ugaki has given a briefing on the process of extracting biofuels from pine roots. So school children are being sent into the country to extract this. But this requires more than 1,000 hours of labor for one hour's flight on biofuels.

[James Holland]

I'm sorry, Jim. An obvious joke's come to me. Are they. They're flying net zeros, right?

[Al Murray]

That's very good.

[James Holland]

It's ridiculous.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. A great waste of time.

[James Holland]

Fair enough. Ugaki is pretty pessimistic, right? Isn't he?

[Al Murray]

No, he's not. He's not. He's not. And he keeps a diary and he knows that, you know, his. His life is coming to a close and he's full of feelings of guilt and despair and you know, all sorts as he sort of wanders around his leafy above ground area of the Kanoya Air Base.

[James Holland]

Yeah, he's ordered on March 25, Combined Fleet Headquarters in Hiyoshi order him to initiate Operation 10 Go, which is a mass suicide and bombing attacks on the allied fleets. Obviously preparing for this will take time. The air element will be carried out in conjunction with a similar naval banzai charge of warships.

[Al Murray]

I mean, it is utterly bonkers. I mean totally. Madam, we'll get on to what happens on operation 10 go in our next episode. But trust me, it's extraordinary because, you know, you can't just. Just get this massed operation up and running just with the click of your fingers. It's agreed that Operation Tengo is going to take place on the 6th of April. And at pretty much the same time, 32nd army would launch a counterattack in Okinawa. Now, you know, Ushijima is not happy about this at all. He's defied Imperial General Headquarters with his battle plan of creating the tunnel network in the southern half of Okinawa and waiting for the Americans to come to him. That involves staying put in their tunnels. So he's not at all happy about having to do a counter attack. But anyway, those are the orders. But it's interesting because Yugaki keeps a daily diary and he, he does confess to feeling wretched and guilty about consigning so many of his air crew to death. And he vows to follow the example of those young boys someday. I was glad that my weak mind apt to be moved to tears had reached this stage. I mean, you just want to give them all a slap, don't you?

[James Holland]

Yeah, you do. That's the best way of putting it. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Wake up.

[James Holland]

Stop.

[Al Murray]

This is madness.

[James Holland]

American plans, you know, they need it as a base, so they need control of the island, don't they? Yeah, control of the island.

[Al Murray]

It's Steve Prince's plus one, minus one. You know, you're denying it's the enemy and gaining the benefit yourself.

[James Holland]

So overall command of Iceberg is Admiral Raymond A. Spruance.

[Al Murray]

I think the other thing that's really, really worth pointing out is the main reason they want it is they wanted it as the kind of launch pad for the inspected invasion of Kyushu in November 1945. Yeah, the attack on the Japanese mainland. No atomic bomb at this point.

[James Holland]

They want it as an aircraft carrier the way the Japanese want it as an aircraft carrier. So. Yeah, plus one, minus one, exactly.

[Al Murray]

Well, and a base camp as well and you know, a kind of a port and warehouses and storage and ammo and supplies and hospitals and blah, blah, blah.

[James Holland]

As Bruance has argued for the assault at Okinawa and it persuaded both Nimitz and King. And he's another one of these sort of big men, isn't he? They're all these. He's big experience, quietly spoken, soup tie.

[Al Murray]

Kind of looks like Popeye a bit. He's got. He's got a kind of sort of long nose, sticks out. He's kind of thin jawed. He always wears a kind of, you know, A naval version of a baseball cap. Yeah, he's pretty casual, doesn't say much. He's very kind of taciturn fellow, but absolutely top draw bloke. I mean, you know, he's an incredibly proficient and exceptional commander. Yeah.

[James Holland]

Commanding task force 51 is Admiral Richmond Kelly Turner. And that's the transport fleet. That's got the joint and U.S. marine Corps, army and Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces. That's got old battleships, escort carriers, screening cruisers, destroyers, hundreds of attack transports, thousands of assault craft, minesweepers, hospital ships, incredibly importantly, and other auxiliary vessels.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And it's really interesting about Turner because you know, Richmond Kelly Turner, you know, we've come across him a lot. He's there at Guadalcanal. You know, he's been through the whole thing. And there is a kind of acceptance by both Nimitz, King and Spruance that Turner is burnt out by this stage, but this guy just needs to go home. They also know that he's drinking heavily each night, which actually is in breach of U.S. navy regulations. You know, you're not supposed to drink on shit, but he's necking his whiskey every night and all the rest of it. But they also believe that whether he's sober or half cut, Turner is going to do a better job than anyone else. So it's kind of one last show.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And he does, to be fair, it.

[James Holland]

Is fine, doesn't he? Yeah.

[Al Murray]

So the invasion troops are placed collectively into the U.S. 10th Army. This is under Lieutenant General Simon B. Buckner Jr. Of the U.S. army. So he's not a Marine commander, he's an army commander. The army troops are in the 24th Corps under Major General John R. Hodge, who he. I mean, it's just amazing, isn't it? There's all these kinds of corps commanders that, you know, most people never even heard of. While the U.S. marine Corps in the, in the 3rd Amphibious Corps is the 1st and 6th Marine Divisions. The 1st Marine Division, of course, being the old breed that were there at Guadalcanal, etc under Major General Roy S. Geiger. And of course, the British Pacific Fleet is also part of the plan Designated Task Force 57 under Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser. Remember him?

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Battle of the North Cape. Yeah. And their job is to, is to operate, you know, separately, a cover and screen to the south between Okinawa and Formosa, which is now Taiwan. And the British Pacific fleet includes four carriers, two battleships, 15 screening warships. And you know, he's really only the size of a U.S. navy task group. Just amazing. And Fraser is reporting directly into spruance.

[James Holland]

And in theory they're operating independently, aren't they? They've been told, yes, you can come and join in the Pacific, but we're not going to help you out. But actually they are plugged into the American logistic thing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And there's no quite, you know, there's no reason for the Americans be poo poo about this. I mean, it's still not an insignificant force.

[James Holland]

Course. No, I know, but the official policies that they've got to fend for themselves. But it's not actually what's going on.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Which I think is quite interesting. There's a tension, isn't there, about the British Pacific Fleet. Chiefs of staff at Churchill disagree about what to do.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Whether they should be involved at all. Roosevelt then goes, no, no, I want you guys on board. And is central to their involvement. But they've now been designated with a task force number. Basically says that the Americans are comfortable with them being there now is the truth. It's very, very interesting.

[Al Murray]

Well, it's also amazing when you think, you think that, you know, 1939, the Royal Navy is the world's largest.

[James Holland]

Oh, yeah.

[Al Murray]

And now by, you know, March 1945, it's. Oh, that's good of you to come and join us. You put yourself over there.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

As they're dwarfed by the fifth Fleet.

[James Holland]

Yeah. I mean, they're a tiddler by comparison. I mean, it is very much the American attitude in the Pacific, though, that it's their war, they don't really want anyone else getting under their way, which is how the Australians end up sidelined and all that sort of stuff. Now, the sea around Akhidar is never more than 100 fathoms deep and it's easy to mine, so there's tons of mine sweeping that has to go in prior to L Day. It's a quarter of a million square miles of ocean have to be swept for mines.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. It's not a small amount, is it?

[James Holland]

It's unbelievable. On the 26th of March l day -5, three battalions of the 77th Infantry Division land on the Karama Islands 15 miles southwest of Okinawa. It's a small garrison of 500 troops who are quickly overpowered. And you clearly haven't decided to turn it into some sort of Japanese cavalry.

[Al Murray]

No, this is really key to the whole battle because it's a small archipelago of hilly islands, but they offer really good protected anchorage. You can't be hit from Okinawa there and it's shelter from winds and all the rest of it. And it's large enough to accommodate about 75 larger ships in the anchorage. And the Americans call it the Karama Roadstead. And there's narrow entrances which can be guarded by submarines and also, you know, the space for seaplane base as well. And then on the 27th of March, dozens of auxiliary and repair ships already begin arriving. Their job is to become a floating logistics task force, you know, where they can do fueling and ammo and repairs and so on. And the repairs is going to be the really, really key bit. The other thing is, while they get there, the US troops capture 315 Shinyo Plywood Kamikaze suicide speedboats.

[James Holland]

Dear God.

[Al Murray]

It's quite the kind of the bonus, you know, they weren't expecting that at all. And again, it's kind of, you know, they've got them and so the Japanese can't have them anym anymore. And then on the 31st of March, the Kaiser Islands are also captured, which are just eight miles west of Okinawa. And the interesting thing about that is that 155 millimeter artillery is swiftly put ashore. You know, these are the Long Toms and whatnot. And they line up targets on Okinawa because they can operate that far.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah. That's actually well within what a long Tom can do, isn't it? So, blimey.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

The Japanese are sending the odd kamikaze to try and interrupt things.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. All while every so often a kind of buzz in the sky and then, you know, know.

[James Holland]

But it's not their main effort. That's yet to come.

[Al Murray]

No, no, no.

[James Holland]

L minus 131 March, Spruance's flagship, the USS Indianapolis, is attacked by a lone Oscar fighter. It releases its bomb a split second before crashing into the port side aft. The bomb penetrates through the condenser room and the mess deck before detonating next to one of the ship's fuel tanks. Ship's okay, but it has to be patched up at Karama and then has to sail home for repairs. That's a near miss.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Spruance could have been killed.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Had things turned out differently.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

And he's moved to the battleship USS New Mexico. And then 72 hours before love Day, they start the naval bombardment. It's a gigantic fire plan commanded by Admiral Morton El Dayo. His ships fire 33,800 tons of shells in the last 24 hours.

[Al Murray]

Correct.

[James Holland]

And they're shelling the wrong bit. You know, they're in the tunnels in the south. Keeps everyone awake in Okinawa. So you know, frayed nerves. Every village in southern Okinawa is destroyed and airfields are smashed up. But it doesn't touch the sides when it comes to the fortifications.

[Al Murray]

I suppose it's a wasted effort. I suppose it keeps the Japanese troops awake.

[James Holland]

Well, probably keeps everyone in the fleet awake as well.

[Al Murray]

Oh, maybe, yeah.

[James Holland]

But it certainly. It lets you know it's coming. Right. The guns are only firing because you're about to land on the beach. You know what I mean?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

There's mood music. If you're in the assault force, it must concentrate the mind.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, you're about.

[James Holland]

First Marine Division have been warned to expect 80 to 85% casualties and first waves. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

[Al Murray]

So L day arrives Sunday the 1st of April, 1945. Easter Day, April Fool's Day. Men aroused before dawn. You know, usual final preparations, breakfast of the condemned men. Steak and eggs always tastes delicious, but less delicious than it might do if you don't think you're going to be one of the 85% people about to become a casualty. And it's interesting, you know, it's checking weapons and kit and all the rest of it, you know, NER smoking and. And obviously a lot of. A lot of men are fresh to action, but there's also, you know, there are plenty of veterans, too, you know, so virtually all the NCOs, particularly corporal and above, you know, they fought in at least one amphibious assault, which I think is amazing.

[David McCloskey]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

They're lowered into sort of landing craft, the big guns, the warships still thundering. And then as dawn creeps over the seas and the island, waves of aircraft roaring overhead give the men a fearful. But at the same time, you know, Larson RA recorded that they were incredulous any enemy troops could still possibly be alive. You know, and you can see why they would be thinking that. It's slightly cloudy, it's cool breeze, temperatures around 24 degrees Celsius. So that's 75 degrees Fahrenheit. And then 8:30am, you know, all the sort of circling around, getting into formation. The time has come. Flags go up on the control boats leading assault craft. Open throttles. And Operation Iceberg. The invasion of Okinawa is underway.

[James Holland]

Right. And in the next episode, we'll be looking at the naval battle.

[Al Murray]

Well, really focusing on that. And I've got to say, boy, the drama of that is just unbelievable.

[James Holland]

And if you can't wait for that, of course, join our Patreon. We have ways of making you talk Patreon for less than a pint now, all the way across the uk, get these episodes without adverts and get them all in one go. Or even better, come to our festival in September at the weekend James and I were hey, Festival, Festival. And it was fantastic to meet listeners to the podcast, but also a little perturbing to have to quiz them about whether they were coming to the festival or not and them not being sure of the dates.

[Al Murray]

Come on, people.

[James Holland]

12Th to 14th September. It's at black Pit Brewery next door to Silverstone Racetrack. We will see you there. We know we will. That's we havewaysfest.co.uk. join us for the brutal battle at Sea Okinawa Episode two immediately. If that's what you've decided to do with your subscription, we'll see you very soon. Thanks very much for listening. Cheerio.

[Al Murray]

Cheerio.

[Gordon Carrera]

I'm Gordon Carrera.

[Bill Looney]

And I'm David McClarskey.

[Gordon Carrera]

Together we're the co hosts of another Goal hanger show called the Rest Is Classified.

[Bill Looney]

Here's that clip we mentioned earlier on.

[Gordon Carrera]

When I look back on it now, you still see that, you know, there's plans, there's memoranda, there's notifications, there's all these things, but they're never actually executed. They never actually kind of pull the trigger on anything, do they?

[Bill Looney]

I'm a little bit of two minds on this because I agree with you that the theme of this episode really is a series of missed opportunities to get Osama bin laden prior to 9 11.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[Bill Looney]

But we should also note that once Tenet and the CIA understand that Osama bin Laden is coming for us in particular after the East Africa bombings, there is a push to improve our collection and our understanding of Al Qaeda pretty significantly. I mean, there's a bunch of human sources who get recruited in this period. There's a lot more technical collection. Alex Station is beefed up to more than 40 people. There's a bunch of connections with foreign partners on Al Qaeda that hadn't existed before. I mean, interestingly, There's a the PDB President's Daily Brief in December, December 4th of 1998, which is titled, quote, Bin Laden preparing to hijack U.S. aircraft and other attacks. And so there's a lot of strategic warning, I think you could say, about what Al Qaeda is up to. And yet there's an inability, I think, to translate that into practical efforts and operations to, to stop these attacks and just stop Al Qaeda from ultimately carrying out 9 11.

[Gordon Carrera]

If you want to hear the full episode, listen to the Rest is Classified. Wherever you get your podcasts.