Podcast Summary: WW2 Pod – We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: Rommel: Germany's Best General
Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Al Murray and James Holland

Overview

In this episode, Al Murray and James Holland conclude their comprehensive ranking of German generals who served in the Western theatre during WWII, culminating in a spirited assessment of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel. Through lively discussion, deep expertise, and irreverent wit, the hosts evaluate each general’s strengths, shortcomings, and overall impact. The central question: Does Rommel truly deserve his legendary status as Germany's best general in the West?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing the "Best in the West" Debate

[02:13–03:17]

• The episode is the final installment in a mini-series evaluating WWII generals by theatre and nationality.
• Al and James explain that their methodology mimics a "Booker Prize" longlist-shortlist format, culminating in an in-person debate at the We Have Ways Fest.
• The goal is, humorously, to "settle for once the argument about who the finest commanding officers of the Second World War were" so “no one need ever argue about this again” (Murray, 02:58).

2. Critical Appraisal of German Generals

[03:35–47:17]

• The hosts work through influential German commanders, mixing biographical backgrounds, command critiques, and moral judgments.
  • Notably covered: Kesselring, Manstein, Manteuffel, Model, Senger und Etterlin, and Student.
• Each general’s performance, particularly in terms of tactical, operational, and strategic skill, is scrutinized with candor and wit.

Notable Discussions:

Albert Kesselring – "The Smiling Albert"

• Kesselring is depicted as a man "broadly seen as a good Nazi and a jolly good chap" (Murray, 03:51) but whose strategic capabilities are debunked.
• "He's a good tactical air force commander... but nothing more than that." (Holland, 11:33)
• The hosts sharply criticize his record in Italy, both for military decisions and for sanctioning brutal reprisals against civilians (10:23).

Erich von Manstein

• The myth of Manstein’s originality is dismissed.
• "There is nothing original about von Manstein's plan at all. Nothing at all. What is original is the execution." (Holland, 14:32)
• His contributions to the "Best in the West" argument are minimized—“he’s irrelevant to this because his only contribution is in 1940...a bit of a non event.” (15:46)

Walter Model – "Hitler’s Fireman"

• Model is praised for his defensive brilliance and adaptability, particularly when the tide of war had turned against Germany.
• "A leader who is placed in the most critical position will never disappoint. Personally exemplary in bravery, ruthless towards himself..." – von Kluge on Model (24:18)
• Humanized as both “unspeakably impressive” and capable of great speed and coordination in a crisis (22:50, 24:03).

Hasso von Manteuffel

• Respected for his tactical acumen and thoroughness, but regarded as lacking charisma or true vision (18:24).

Fridolin von Senger und Etterlin

• Described positively as a humane and principled officer, but not in the running for “best” due to command level and impact (41:01).

Kurt Student

• Recognized for innovation in airborne warfare; credited with influencing the Allies' own strategies (45:17).

3. In-Depth Assessment: Erwin Rommel

[29:14–39:17]

Early Life and WWI

• Rommel is introduced as non-Prussian, dynamic, and creative—traits underpinning both his military and public persona.
• WWI exploits: heroics in the Alps, use of stormtrooper tactics, authorship of Infanterie Greift An (30:59).

WWII Campaigns

• 1940 France:
  • Blazes the path in the 7th Panzer Division, crossing the Meuse ahead of schedule, outmaneuvering opponents.
  • "Epitomizes the values of the new form of warfare. It's a poster boy for it in lots of ways" (Murray, 32:03).
• North Africa:
  • Takes command in 1941, quickly demonstrates audacity and tactical flair.
  • Greatest victory at Gazala and the capture of Tobruk, though hosts note British strategy blunders play a major role.
  • Overreaches at Alamein, failing to account for logistical realities and Allied air power.
• Tunisia & Later War:
  • Rommel’s late war activities—planning counterthrusts, dealing with command confusion, and advocating operationally sound strategies in Italy and France.
  • "His plans for Italy are the best plans and are ignored. And his plans for Normandy... are the correct plans and also ignored." (Holland, 38:12)

Command Philosophy & Legacy

• Hosts highlight Rommel’s front-line leadership, learning ability, and eventual understanding of operational and air power factors.
• Suggest his “greatest moments” may be in adversity rather than in his early, meteoric successes.
• "I've now come around to the view that actually he was really, really good... his vision, his leadership, his concept are the right ones. It’s just that he's not allowed to enact them." (Holland, 38:09)
• Points made about his moral standing: Rommel “doesn’t have to compromise himself on the Eastern front” and is ultimately forced into suicide after July 1944 (Holland, 39:09; Murray, 39:17).

4. Final Rankings and Reflections

[46:13–47:58]

• The hosts offer their top-three Axis “best in the west” picks:
  • Murray: "Guderian, Student, Model" (Murray, 47:34)
  • Holland: "Rommel, Model, and Guderian" (Holland, 47:43)
• Both agree Model stands out for his ability to manage crises and marshal effective defensive resistance when Germany was in retreat.
• They note Rommel’s strengths as rooted in adaptability, learning, and practical leadership throughout many phases of the Western war.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kesselring’s optimism:
  "His optimism is actually la la land. I mean, that is the truth of it." (Holland, 07:59)
• On Manstein’s “originality”:
  "There is nothing original about von Manstein's plan at all. Nothing at all. What is original is the execution. And that is down to Guderian..." (Holland, 14:32)
• On Rommel’s growth:
  "I think his greatest moment is his extraordinary victory, the Gazala Line... but he overcooked it. He doesn't really understand air power at this point, but he learns." (Holland, 32:23)
• Reassessing Rommel:
  "I've flip-flopped with Rommel...I've now come around to the view that actually he was really, really good." (Holland, 38:09)
• On Walter Model’s command style:
  "A leader who is placed in the most critical position will never disappoint... Performs very well." – von Kluge on Model (24:18)
• On German command dysfunction:
  "You can have brilliant people and you can have bad people... but the Allies still have someone in charge." (Murray, 35:32)
• On the futility of some campaigns:
  "The Ardennes is after all, a fool’s errand... a massive shower from start to finish." (Holland, 18:18)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:13] – Series structure and debate format outlined.
• [03:51] – Introduction to Kesselring; critique of tactical vs. strategic leadership.
• [11:18] – Assessment of Kesselring’s wartime crimes and postwar fate.
• [14:15] – Deconstructing Manstein’s reputation.
• [18:18] – Manteuffel's role in the Ardennes: "a massive shower from start to finish."
• [22:50] – Discussion of Model’s speed, initiative, and role in halting Allied advances and Market Garden.
• [24:18] – von Kluge’s evaluation of Model, read by Holland.
• [29:14] – The Rommel deep dive begins.
• [32:01] – Rommel’s North African campaign and its turning points.
• [38:09] – Holland’s revised judgment: Rommel’s ideas and vision were correct, even if ignored.
• [41:01] – Assessment of Senger und Etterlin’s limited strategic impact.
• [45:17] – Recognition of Student’s innovations and their impact on Allied doctrine.
• [46:13–47:58] – Final top-three rankings for “Best in the West” German generals.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive, entertaining, and incisive assessment of Field Marshal Rommel’s true military value amidst a broad discussion of German generalship in the Western theatre. Challenging myth with nuance, Murray and Holland show that while Rommel’s reputation is not entirely unearned, Walter Model emerges as an underrated master of defensive warfare. The hosts’ banter and detailed debate offer fresh perspectives, making this an essential listen for anyone interested in WWII command, myth-making, and military history.