WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: Swordfish, Stalingrad, & Uniting Nations
Hosts: Al Murray (A), James Holland (B)
Release Date: January 1, 2026

Episode Overview

In this rich and freewheeling episode, Al Murray and James Holland channel their boundless enthusiasm and expertise into an exploration of “meanwhile” moments across consecutive New Year’s Days in WWII. Blending deep-dive history, humor, and fresh perspectives, they weave together stories often lost in the headline events. The pair shine a spotlight on the humble but heroic Fairey Swordfish ("string bag"), forgotten Arctic convoys, codebreaking triumphs and setbacks, the birth of the United Nations, seismic echoes of Stalingrad, evolving commemoration, and the enduring relevance of WWII’s overlooked corners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Enduring Legend of the Swordfish ("String Bag")

• String Bag Obsession (01:11)
  Al and James revel in the ingenuity, adaptability, and sheer courage behind the Royal Navy's Fairey Swordfish biplane – affectionately dubbed the "string bag."

  • Rocket-Assisted Take Off:
    They marvel over the Mark II Swordfish’s completely incongruous marriage of biplane antiquity with modern innovation—armed with rockets and even featuring RATOG (Rocket-Assisted Take Off Gear).
    • Quote – Al:
      "A biplane with struts and stresses that can carry radar and be rocket propelled. It makes no sense." (04:47)

• Life and Death in the Arctic Convoys (03:04; 05:33–09:27)
  They share harrowing anecdotes of Arctic deck landings and patrols, conveying the often-invisible scale of endurance, exposure, and mortal peril faced by Swordfish crews.

  • The “Worst Job” in the RAF Torpedo Bomber Crew
    Only 17% survived their first tour in the Mediterranean; Swordfish crews had it just as rough, but in open cockpits and far worse conditions.
  • Extra Fuel, Fewer Crew:
    To extend range, crews would sacrifice the air gunner’s seat for a fuel tank—a decision not all found disappointing.
  • Notable Quote – James:
    "I just can't compute what it must be like flying in an open cockpit aircraft...from a small escort carrier with icy decks in the Arctic. It's beyond comprehension." (05:33)
  • Memorable Account – Deck Landings:
    “Instead of landing the string bag on the deck, I should practically be able to wait for the deck to rise up and catch the string bag… the impact nearly snapped off my tail wheel.” (08:51)

• Forgotten Corners of History (10:20–13:24)
  The hosts reflect on how Swordfish crews and similar outliers are eclipsed by glamorous stories of Spitfires or big battles—a subjective narrative that it’s their responsibility as historians and podcasters to challenge.

“On This Day” – WWII Snapshots from January 1

1940: The Winter War – Plucky Finns vs. Soviets (14:35)

• Battle of Raate Road:
  Finnish troops defeat far more numerous Soviet enemies.
  • The Soviets had even brought a military band for a victory parade—whose instruments were later found among the Finnish booty.
• Galvanizing National Identities:
  “If you want to make a country, invade it.” (15:49)
  Hosts riff on the motif of ‘plucky’ nations—Finns, Swedes, Ukrainians, Brits, and more.

1941: The Codebreaking War (17:00)

• Enigma Struggles:
  British naval officers are pushed to scour captured vessels for codebooks and Enigma parts—British SIGINT is far from dominant, while the Germans enjoy considerable intelligence wins early in the war.
• Partisan Narratives:
  The hosts skewer the celebratory, unbalanced British narrative of codebreaking, noting the Italian and German sides were often formidable as well.
  • “From famine to feast” – Intelligence volume overwhelms capacity by 1944.

1942: Declaration by United Nations (20:55)

• Roosevelt’s Vision:
  FDR hoped the UN would avoid the League of Nations’ fate and bring the USSR and China into a peaceful postwar order, based partly on Western generosity (Lend-Lease) and the lure of future trade.
• Realpolitik and Autocracy:
  Stalin and Chiang Kai-shek’s autocratic tendencies would, of course, undercut this vision, but the foundational impulse "counts for something."
  • Quote – Al:
    “It’s understandable people think this war has been so cataclysmic… surely part of the outcome is that even rival nations… have to understand that we can’t go on like this. But that then flips straight into a Cold War mentality afterwards.” (23:24)

1943: Stalingrad Encirclement – A Turning Point? (25:56)

• Stalingrad’s Significance Debated:
  James argues the real “strategic earthquake” is the failure of Barbarossa, not Stalingrad; Stalingrad is the consequence, not the cause, of irreversible German defeat.
• Cherished Myths & Cold Realities:
  The Red Army’s successes in 1942-43 depend in no small part on massive American truck deliveries—an inconvenient fact often omitted in Soviet narratives.
  • Quote – B:
    “It remains this unconvenient truth for the narrative of the Great Patriotic War, that the only reason Stalingrad is encircled by the Soviet Union is thanks to the 75,000 trucks that the Americans give them.” (30:09)

1944: The Remembrance Movement

• Death of Sir Edwin Lutyens (31:08): The architect who shaped Britain’s culture of commemoration—responsible for iconic memorials and cemetery designs.
  • Murray and Holland reflect on the societal importance of commemoration in the industrial age and the role of architecture in collective remembrance.

1945: Operation Bodenplatte – Luftwaffe’s Last Throw (32:21)

• A Doomed Mass Raid:
  The Germans launch a massive air attack in a desperate attempt to damage Allied air power, managing some surprise but suffering unsustainable losses.
• Hitler’s Empty Promises:
  The hosts poke fun at Hitler’s repeated claims of promised “thousand plane raids” that never materialize—except perhaps on this day, though it does little to alter the outcome.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 04:47 | "A biplane with struts and stresses that can carry radar and be rocket propelled. It makes no sense at all. Absolutely, absolutely no sense at all." | Al Murray | | 05:33 | "I just can't compute what it must be like flying in an open cockpit aircraft biplane from a small escort carrier with icy decks in the Arctic. It's beyond comprehension." | James Holland | | 08:18 | "On such flights, the monotony and the vastness of that unending expanse beneath us become so intense that any break is almost always welcome… And we would swoop down to examine it." | Read from an Arctic convoy account | | 10:20 | "I do think it's responsibility of this podcaster to cast a light onto for the forgotten corners of World War II." | James Holland | | 23:24 | "It’s understandable that people think this war has been so cataclysmic… surely part of the outcome is that even rival nations… have to understand that we can’t go on like this. But that then flips straight into a Cold War mentality afterwards." | Al Murray | | 30:09 | "It remains this unconvenient truth… that the only reason Stalingrad is encircled by the Soviet Union… is thanks to the 75,000 trucks that the Americans give them. Otherwise, they’re not mobile enough." | James Holland |

Plans for 2026 and Beyond

• Upcoming Themes:

  • Deep dives into naval warfare (“Hood vs the Bismarck” series launches Jan 6)
  • Coastal Command and more “string bag” episodes
  • Guadalcanal
  • Reappraising key campaigns and aircraft (besides the Swordfish)

• Meta-Reflection:

  • Both hosts muse on the crowded editorial choices of WWII historiography (“Meanwhile, meanwhile, meanwhile”) and their aim to illuminate forgotten stories alongside the celebrated ones.
  • Community and gratitude: heartfelt thanks to the audience, and a promise of more “war waffle” in the new year.

Episode Flow – Key Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | Opening Banter | Intros, “meanwhile” approach, preamble | 01:03–01:58 | | The Swordfish: Endurance & Innovation | Rocket-assisted takeoff, Arctic stories, crew odds | 01:55–13:24 | | Jan 1 Year-by-Year | Battle of Raate Road (1940), codebreaking (1941), UN Declaration (1942), Stalingrad (1943), Lutyens’ death (1944), Bodenplatte (1945) | 14:35–34:04 | | Reflections & Upcoming Series | Naval history, string bags, Guadalcanal, Coastal Command, audience thanks | 34:04–35:37 |

Tone & Style

Warmly irreverent, deeply informed, peppered with dry wit and self-deprecating humor. The hosts effortlessly alternate between technical detail, broader strategic analysis, and big-hearted storytelling, making even arcane corners of WWII vivid and vital.

For New Listeners

This episode exemplifies what makes “We Have Ways” beloved—a passionate rummage through WWII’s attic, dusting off overlooked heroes, questioning accepted narratives, and inviting listeners to marvel at courage, loss, and serendipity in equal measure. Whether you’re a hardcore historian or a casual buff, Al and James guarantee an invigorating start to your WWII year.