Episode Overview

Episode Title: What Did My Family Do In WW2?
Podcast: WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
Hosts: Al Murray and James Holland
Date: December 25, 2025

In this episode, Al and James dive into one of the most common questions they receive: How can people find out what their family members really did in WWII? Using the vast digital archives of Ancestry, they trace their own family connections, share stories of lost relatives, and unearth hidden details from war diaries, POW records, and operation logs. With a blend of rich storytelling, genuine curiosity, and characteristic humour, the hosts explore the personal side of WWII history and demonstrate how listeners can embark on their own journey into family war records.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Ancestry’s Archives (01:47–04:52)

• Digitization Transformation: James describes his surprise at how comprehensive the Ancestry resource is, shifting his view from "births, deaths, and yeoman farmers" to a trove of operational documents and service records.

• Al’s Family Search:

  • Al traces his grandfather Rafe, who operated with the Political Warfare Executive, noting the lack of formal record of his supposed military rank. This leads to discussions of clandestine activities and hidden wartime roles.
  • He tracks his other grandfather’s story—initially recorded as missing, then killed—and reflects on how such records reveal not just stories but also the “muscle” of wartime bureaucracy and its human impact.

  "These records... shed light not just on the people, but on the process, on the bureaucratic muscle behind the whole of the... And so. And his initials are in wrong. And I wonder if that delayed..."
  — Al Murray, 04:01

• Clerical Errors and Human Cost: The team discuss how clerical errors could delay family notifications, showing the war's chaos at the administrative as well as the frontline level.

2. Detective Work in Military Archives (05:00–08:24)

• Personal Connection to Archives:

  • James describes the thrill of investigation, likening it to detective work, filled with dead ends and serendipitous finds ("little rabbit holes").
  • Al highlights the availability of rare primary documents—like POW debrief forms—that bring the reality of war closer.

• Example: Captain John Lothian Nicholson:
  Al reads a detailed POW escape narrative from a British Army captain, illuminating the perils and resourcefulness required during the Japanese advance after Singapore’s fall.

  "About midnight on the 15th, 16th of February 42... we took a 12 foot dinghy from the Yacht club beside the harbor and made off in the direction of St John's Island..."
  — Al Murray reads from Nicholson’s POW Questionnaire, 08:26

• Emotional Resonance: Both marvel at how these records humanize the administrative, logistical, and emotional toll of war.

3. Uncovering Squadron and Unit Stories (12:08–20:18)

• Al’s Friend’s Father and 407 Squadron:

  • Al dives into the RAF’s 407 Royal Canadian Air Force Squadron using online operational record books, tracing his friend's father’s missions—including the famous “thousand bomber” Bremen raid.
  • They discuss the hazardous, relentless pace of Coastal Command, often overshadowed by narratives about U-boat hunting.
  • The diary entries reveal operational highs and lows: celebrations muted by ongoing losses, pride in achievements, and brutal statistics on attrition rates.

  "So at the same time as they're celebrating their squadron anniversary, there's no one left alive with the squashies. Well, there's no one."
  — Al Murray, 14:21

  "There were shouts of glee from all those present when the group captain announced we were going to obliterate Bremen."
  — Al Murray, 20:00

• Nature of Operational Records: James explains the value of both the “diary of events” and the “Operational Record Book” (ORBs), showing how differing styles and detail levels paint richer or patchier pictures.

4. How Ancestry Works: Advice from a Military Genealogist (20:45–23:31)

• Simon Pearce (Ancestry Military Genealogist) Joins:

  • Simon recommends beginners start their research by gathering stories, photographs, and letters from family, then plugging names, dates, and places into Ancestry to trigger record hints and further connections.
  • The importance of building a family tree is stressed; the more detail you input, the more effective the searches and AI suggestions become.

  "Each record is just one piece of the puzzle, so when you find one, it's not the end of it, it’s just... Just leading you on to another one. And that's what's so exciting. You never know where it's going to take you next."
  — Simon Pearce, 22:48

• Personalizing the Past: The hosts reflect on how everyone is just a couple of degrees away from the war—“people were involved in it whether they liked it or not”—making the research both universal and unique.

5. Sicily Campaign: Terrain, Commandos, and Hard Lessons (24:28–39:43)

• James Hunts the 7th Royal Marines War Diary:

  • Using Ancestry’s digitized diaries, James reconstructs a campaign in Sicily where Marine Commandos fill a dangerous gap between British advances.
  • The discussion paints a vivid picture of Sicily’s harsh landscape, the logistical struggles of mechanized warfare in such conditions, and the collision of eras between Allied commandos and centuries-old villages.

  “A proclamation of Allied military government was read from the balcony of the town hall at 0830 hours on the 18th of July. I mean, there's a lot going on just in that paragraph, isn't there?”
  — James Holland, 27:09

  • The hosts trace the challenges of attacking up steep, poorly scouted ground with inadequate equipment (like improvised anti-tank guns that “crash into ravines”), and analyze how lessons learned in these operations fed into better approaches later in the war.

  "First light found the companies in the bridgehead in an exposed position. Oh no. Dominated by Razor ridge and the Picca Indira... they came under very heavy fire from an assortment of German weapons..."
  — James Holland, 37:06

• Reflection on Historical Documentation: Al and James note how officers’ reports both preserve crucial detail and sometimes shape or distort the narrative, and how casualty lists and records democratize the experience by recording “other ranks” as well.

6. Accessibility and Breadth of the Archive (41:00–44:14)

• Breadth of Records: From D-Day diaries to casualty and honors lists and even postwar National Service records, the database allows searches for UK, US, and Commonwealth personnel.

• Family Legends & Verification: The hosts discuss the joy and surprise of verifying or debunking family stories and legends using digitized archives.

• A Plug for Listeners: In their trademark light-hearted style, Al and James urge listeners to explore the archive, suggesting that it “may save you from some awkward holiday small talk,” and expressing genuine gratitude to Ancestry for making research so accessible.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bureaucratic Mistakes:
  "There's a gap between my grandmother knowing he's missing and knowing he was killed. These records, it just—it sheds light not just on the people, but on the process, on the bureaucratic muscle..."
  — Al Murray, 04:01

• On Prisoner Records:
  "How many people know prisoners of war then filled in a questionnaire when they were liberated? This can be, you know, ‘I'm all right, I was wounded,’ they can be quite sparse or they can be super detailed."
  — Al Murray, 06:46

• The Squad Brought Low:
  "At the same time as they're celebrating their squadron anniversary, there's no one left alive with the squashies. Well, there's no one."
  — Al Murray, 14:21

• On Investigative Joy:
  "One of the things that I really enjoy about doing the research for books is the kind of investigation... you like a detective."
  — James Holland, 10:25

• On Personalizing the War:
  "People were involved in it whether they liked it or not. You will have a grandparent, great-grandparent, great-uncle, great-aunt, whatever, who somehow got caught up in this, because that was the nature of the event."
  — Al Murray, 22:48

• History as Lived Experience:
  "A proclamation of allied military government was read from the balcony of the town hall... I can hear sappers working very hard and not getting the credit."
  — James Holland & Al Murray, 27:09

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:47 – 04:52]: Delving into Al’s family WWII records, and reflections on administrative chaos during war.
• [05:00 – 08:24]: Detective work in archives—POW records and bureaucratic muscle of the war.
• [12:08 – 20:18]: Tracing Al’s friend’s father’s record in RAF 407 Squadron; the hazards and pride of Coastal Command.
• [20:45 – 23:31]: Military genealogist Simon Pearce on how to start researching military ancestors.
• [24:28 – 39:43]: Exploring the 7th Royal Marines war diary in Sicily—terrain, gaps, attacks, and hard lessons.
• [41:00 – End]: Navigating different record types, democratizing family stories, and the ease of use of Ancestry.

Conclusion

This episode is both a guide and an inspiration for those yearning to dive into their family's WWII past. With warmth, humour, and expertise, Al and James show how to move from myth to documentation, from legend to record. By demonstrating captivating finds from operational logs, war diaries, and oral histories, they invite the listener to connect with history at the most personal and meaningful level—one ancestor at a time.