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- [00:00]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
This is a real good story about.
- [00:02]
Julianna Hauser
Bronx and his dad, Ryan, real United Airlines customers.
- [00:06]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Kath and Andrew. I got to sit in the driver's seat. I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future. It felt like I was the captain. Allowing my son to see the flight.
- [00:27]
Julianna Hauser
Deck will stick with us forever.
- [00:28]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
That's how good leads the way.
- [00:34]
Podcast Announcer
Welcome to the youe Are Not Broken podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kelly Casperson, a board certified urologist, thought leader and conversation starter on midlife living, hormones and sexuality. Enjoy the show.
- [00:48]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the you Are Not Broken podcast. I have my friend Julianna Hauser on today and we're going to talk about her new book that's coming out. Welcome.
- [00:57]
Podcast Announcer
Thank you.
- [00:58]
Julianna Hauser
It's so good to be back.
- [00:59]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
When's the new book come out?
- [01:01]
Julianna Hauser
September 23rd.
- [01:02]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
September 23rd. September's a good month. It is. So get it now. And we're going to talk about your new book called A New Position on A Guide to Greater Sexual Confidence, Pleasure and Authenticity. It's not just sex tips. I love it. Why did you write this book?
- [01:18]
Julianna Hauser
I wrote it because I've been doing this work that is based on for 20 years and there's only one of me. So I wanted to be. To make it accessible for everybody. And when I've seen what the work has done to people that I have been able to work on individually with and in groups, I want everyone to have access to this because we are not being given this level of information about who we are as sexual beings. And I think it is a huge reason why we have such a negative sexual culture currently and so many problems within it.
- [01:50]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I think that in order to get good at sex, whatever that means, maybe we'll talk about that. You have to unlearn first. Like before you can learn good sex or part of learning good sex is unlearning the shit that got you where you are.
- [02:05]
Julianna Hauser
Yeah, agreed. It's a lot of what. And you have to have trust that there is something out there that's going to make a difference. You have to believe that sexuality is a necessity and not a luxury. And then you have to have the bravery to have curiosity about what could change. You have to. You have to understand that sexuality is worth it.
- [02:26]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Let's dig into that because it's like, it's one thing for you to say it is or me to say it is or like the sexperts who are like, you know, men die less when they have orgasms and like, you know, stuff like that. But it's like, dude, you're looking at the average. I'm going to pick an age 45 year old woman, she knows exercise is worth it and doesn't exercise. She knows eight hours of sleep is worth it and doesn't sleep. She's allowed so much of societal demands and taking care of other people to claw away at like everything that's good for her body. So what would you tell that person when we're like, well, I know that like, dude, an awesome sex life is freaking awesome. It's not enough for me to just say, and I never want somebody to do it for somebody else. It's like, what do you do in a society that has taken away the ability for women to do everything that's.
- [03:14]
Julianna Hauser
Good for them away and told her she has to be doing everything in order to be a good woman and having a good life. It is such a conundrum that we have positioned women into. So what I think say is the first thing is I'm not telling you to go have sex acts. That's not what I'm talking about in this. That's to me, that's the addict. I want you to look at the foundation of a house. I'm actually in the middle of a house renovation.
- [03:41]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
And you're like, I know there's good stuff at the end of this.
- [03:45]
Julianna Hauser
So I am living what I'm teaching you right now. I'm living a metaphor. I'm saying, similar to what you said before is like we have to do the unlearning, but after you unlearn, you have to start with, well then what is the right foundation? And for me it's holistic sexuality. And so everything that we've been teaching everyone about, about what sex is, is about sex acts. And that's one of the nine things that I consider are part of holistic sexuality. It's a part of it, but it's one of nice 1/9 of this and it's unfortunate that that's all we understand. So when I start talking about sexuality being a necessity and a luxury, what we all hear is sex acts is a necessity. And that's, that's not it, it's part of it. And so when, if I can just have somebody give me just a couple more minutes after that to hear what mean by that? Then? Usually I have a buy in and actually a releasing of tension. And someone exhales because like, okay, you're not going to tell me I have to have sex to be good? And I was like, no, I'm not saying that. And sometimes in this work, what I have people finding out is that they say no more, more often. And they say no to the things that really are no for them, and they say yes to the things that feel right. And when you start making that shift in your life, when you really know who you are and you really understand what your yeses and nos are and you live them and people can trust your guesses and respect your nose, it opens up a lot. And then you start relearning a new way of being in the world and a new relationship with sexuality. I remember years ago I had this workshop called Finding Sexy. And I was used to having lines out the door for my workshops and this one was crickets. Like, no one wanted to come to this workshop. And I was like, at the door, like, come on. Like, you know, I'm not scary. And I started asking people, like, almost like interviews on the streets. And I said, what is up about this word? And they said, it's, it's sexy. I just, I don't feel sexy. I don't want to be told what sexy is. It's out of my life. I don't. It's offensive. It's upsetting. And I was like, well, that's why the word finding is in front of it. Let's figure it out. And I really should have said figuring out sexy and that's how I feel about sexuality is. I want everyone to figure out who they are as a sexual being on their own terms, not what society has said.
- [05:59]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I love the finding out who you are, knowing who you are and using we'll say concept of sex, not sex acts. And I love how you clarify that as a tool to learn who you are and to learn like, and to give yourself permission to be like, what do I like? What do I not like? Because it really can be the start of finding yourself. And like, what, what kind of shoes do I like? What kind of hair do I want to wear? What kind of music do I want to listen to? And really like starting to listen to this, like, inner self that we've completely lost relationship with in midlife.
- [06:39]
Julianna Hauser
Agreed. And if you could figure out who you are as a sexual being, holistic sexual being, because it's such a hard place, we aren't given a lot of Space to talk about it safely and in any kind of evolved way. Because there's so many values and political things and negativity associated with it. If you can, if you can sift through all of that and get to a place that you're like, okay, then what is the yes for me in any of this? The actual skills that you gain in curiosity, in knowing who you are, it transforms. Like, it's not even just a topic. It's the skill within a very hard topic that actually becomes the most transformative part. Then it becomes this synergistic thing. You're like, oh, okay. Like, I do feel it's really a journey of self trust. And when you learn to trust yourself and you learn to show up for yourself in general, life changes. But if you do that within who you are as a whole six sexual being, it is absolutely life altering because you now get to have this expanded way of interacting with who we are as a sexual being is if you're breathing, you're sexual. Just as we've just been taught the wrong definition of it.
- [07:49]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Yeah, I love it. I think, I mean, to me it's like there's a body acceptance that comes with this journey as well. Because I think I'll say pre holistic sexuality of like, current state of affairs is like, my body's too jiggly or it's too old, it's too wrinkly, it's too tight, it's too loose, it's too stressed, it's too blah. And it's like this absolute disparagement of the physical body, which is insane when you think the only reason we're here is because we have one of these things. Why aren't we trying to be as effing grateful about it as we can? And by the way, it's amazing. And by the way, it's feels amazing.
- [08:29]
Julianna Hauser
Agreed. One of the things I talk about in the book is having body compassion and what a pivotal thing that is. And actually studies show that it is the most transformative thing you can do with your relationship with your body is to embrace body compassion.
- [08:42]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I love that. I think the other thing about this journey is like, this will not resonate with everybody, but I think it does for some people is there is a certain level of like, fuck it that comes to like going on this journey because you have to discard but dogma of like how it's supposed to be, what you're supposed to do. And you have to realize like, that hurt you, that got you to have shitty sex. It didn't serve you. And you had.
- [09:11]
Podcast Announcer
There has.
- [09:12]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
There's a certain level of like freedom and fuck it. To be like, I want to go see what this is actually all about. Like, there is a strong amount of badassery that goes into this journey. From my view, yes, it's all of.
- [09:27]
Julianna Hauser
That is a yes. I agree with it wholeheartedly. And, and I acknowledge along with that is sometimes it depends on how you get to the fuck it. And sometimes that is, I guess, the beautiful. Like, that's right. Fuck it, fuck it. And other times it is. There's more grieving attached to it when you hit it in that way. You have to be able to experience a leap of faith in yourself. And like, is it going to be worth it? Because sometimes people aren't willing to go there because if they haven't tried the last thing, then there still is a little bit of hope that avoidance adds some bit of like, well, it's not all to at this point.
- [10:05]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Well, and it's safe, right? Like the shitty sex you're having is safe.
- [10:09]
Podcast Announcer
Right?
- [10:10]
Julianna Hauser
We will, our brains will choose chaos as that is comfortable to us. Like familiar than it is like to something that's unfamiliar and feels unsafe every. Every time it'll choo. You have to overcome it in that and, and same with who we are as sexual beings. And as you said earlier, like, we can say all we want that the great sex is great sex and it makes a huge difference. But I love it when I see a woman who says it on her, like, who can really show it for herself. Like, who I am as a sexual being is so much different than who I was 20 years ago. And for me, like, part of my journey is I learned to stop pushing through things that weren't right for me and weren't good for me. Like, we as women, we are, we experience this every single month. Like, if you have discomfort with periods, we learn how to just push through it. And if you have sex that's like that, you just really accumulate all these neuropathways of overcoming something bad. And we don't. And we don't have a lot of neuropathways that are like, hold on a second. No, no, I don't, I don't want this. I don't like this. And we don't have a lot to draw from in our brain science. And so we have to think our way through that and feel our way through it. And if you can do all of that while showering and taking care of the 100 things that you have to do that day. What a mirac. And it is worth it. I have never seen somebody go through this process and be like, well, that was a waste of time and it did nothing for me. It is always like, thank goodness. Thank goodness I did. Actually, this woman who let me share this story, who I was working for this organization called Camp Powerment. So every year I went and did workshops that had to do with sexuality. And she would look at me. She was like, not this year, Dr. J, but maybe someday I'll be coming for you and we'll talk about it. And it took her two years to be able to feel comfortable to have a conversation with me. And as we grew into that relationship, what she said to me is, she's like, I was so afraid of you. And I was so afraid that what you were saying was true for everybody else but me, and I couldn't have the conversation with you that I walked away. And I realized that, yep, it wasn't for me. And she's like, so you kept up with me, Julianne, and you let me. And now her story is absolutely phenomenal. She's in her mid-60s, and on paper, the way she describes it is. It's not. She's like, it's not what I thought I was going to be. I thought working with you, I was going to make me having sex five times a week. And, you know, I'm hanging from the chandeliers. That's what I thought I had to achieve in order to feel happy about where I was. And she's like, the difference is I know how to talk to my husband now and to me, I'm not afraid to have that conversation. I'm not sitting in resentment or avoiding him. When we are able to have sex because of aging bodies changing, I. I love the kind of sex we're having. And it gets to be what we want because we finally talked about what we want, and it's not what everyone else said.
- [13:02]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I love it. People do have to find somebody, whether that's a book, whether that's a trusted friend, whether it's, you know, me or you, to kind of be the guiding light of. We know that there are women who've gone through this journey just like you. We've seen what's possible. We've seen the hero's journey. We're coming back. We're communicating about it, because, yeah, you don't know what's through the gate. But my question is, is there any data in the sex therapy research world that women who are confident in their sexuality and can communicate about it. Does that correlate to overall life confidence, body confidence, work confidence? Like do we have data that it actually spills over again? Not as a reason to do it, but in my experience, women who are confident about this, they're just grounded, confident people like you. It doesn't exist in a bubble.
- [13:59]
Podcast Announcer
This show is sponsored by MIDI Health. When we experience perimenopause, menopause and midlife issues, we feel unheard, dismissed and unserved by the traditional healthcare industry. And here's the powerful it's time for a change. It's time for miti. MITI is not just a healthcare provider, it's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. MITI is leading the way by providing expert personalized insurance covered virtual healthcare for women in midlife, empowering us to thrive and experience our second act with vitality and confidence. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com MIDI the Care Women deserve. Now back to the show.
- [14:49]
Julianna Hauser
So the answer is yes, there is research out there that talks about it. There's not a lot of it because you and I have said a thousand times there's just not nearly enough. Research in the sexual world is what needs to be, particularly if you put it into more of the psychosocial world of looking at sexual. Partly it's because people don't want to talk about it. So it's hard to get people to participate in research. The other thing is that people. There are studies that show that people don't tell the truth when they're being asked questions about who they are sexually. So there's issues in that too. We could do a whole episode on that for the research that is out there. And then I would even say what's even more profound is just the anecdotal conversations and the presentations that we have that haven't been necessarily under a rigorous study. That it is across the board that a woman who has put time into who she is as a sexual being, not just again about what sex she's having, but the sexual being that informs what she's doing with her body. It makes an enormous difference. And I think there's a lot of reasons why people are so afraid of the power that women have when they are sexually confident and that has made sex such a negative and threatening thing. It's not necessarily because of the sex she's having. It's because of who she becomes when she's having the right sex.
- [16:02]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
She's like, I might have to burn the whole house down. And you're like, that is possible, my friends. It probably won't happen for most people. They don't have to burn the whole house down. But I think that's the fear is like, if I actually get confident and advocate and ask for what I want and like my life, I'm gonna have to change a lot of things. And that is the truth, and it's very scary.
- [16:25]
Julianna Hauser
Agreed. And my mentor, Betty Dotson, when she was alive doing workshops, she would often start her workshop saying that there will be a percentage of you. And depending on how sash she was feeling that day, she'd put a number to it. And she would say sometimes it was like, half of you are going to end your relationships after you leave this workshop. Half of you are going. It is not half, but it is a pretty high percentage of relationships that at the least change dramatically and at the most end. And that can be your romantic and sexual relationships. But even friendships, your work, People change their careers after they've done this kind of work. There is a loss to that, but the gain is so worth it. And the other thing is, if you are partnered and you want this work to not, you need to do the work with your partner, Your partner needs to be doing it, and you need to not be doing all the emotional labor because you're going to grow so exponentially when you work within your sexual self. And if you're partnered in it, your partner needs to be doing it too. They have to be doing their own work and alongside of it, or the chasm between the two of you will be too difficult.
- [17:25]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
That just makes me think of effing Viagra. Because don't get me wrong, Viagra is great. We all deserve medications that help our body like it's. Once you realize the depth of this and the fact that Viagra came out in 1998, in $1998, it made its first billion in year two of sales. It's the most widely recognized pharmaceutical on the planet. 90% of men are heterosexual, which means that 90% of households that have Viagra in it have vaginas through which the penis wants to be sexual. It gets dark pretty fast. We just gave people super dicks with no communication skills. No taking care of the vulvas and vaginas and those people's brains. I don't think we will ever understand the absolute destruction. Just for me to be like Completely the antagonist of Viagra today that that's.
- [18:19]
Julianna Hauser
Put on people, I ask people specifically and on my intake if that has been a part of their sexual timeline is using Viagra or a version of it. Because the thing that I' know that happened and I've often said that, that if they're, if we're going to be policing warnings on boxes, the warning box that I want on Viagra is you need to have a therapist alongside of this when you're doing it. Because for most people who are using Viagra they coming to Viagra having had so many issues in their erections that they have had to have, they've had a different kind of sex because there's often an urgency to it. And so the way that they are having sex and you would people think that when they take it they're going to start having sex differently but they don't. They still fuck the same way, which is not typically the pre Viagra sex is not pleasure focused on the female and it is basically like I got to get this in and out as fast as I can before I lose it. And so it's a whole lot of jackhammering or things like that. It's very quick and it's very anxiety based and, and that doesn't go away until they can trust that Viagra is not going to do that. But then we both know sex on Viagra is different also and there's no one guiding them on how to have sex differently and how to lessen their anxiety that is already so associated with sex. So they're bringing new anxiety to a new way of having sex. And then the woman that's having sex with them is still like oh, has her own issues and anxiety and fears.
- [19:52]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
And avoidance and nobody treated her gsm, right.
- [19:55]
Julianna Hauser
And so there, there needs to be a warning box and frankly I think there needs to be like a. You have to show that you have a therapist on hand to get Viagra in order to have good.
- [20:05]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I mean right now there is a gender bias because that's, as everybody knows that's not required for Viagra but for women to get Addie and the meds for low desire. Some insurance companies are requiring therapy first and that's a big problem because that's not gender equality between medications for sexual health. And we're actually not okay with insurance companies requiring therapy first for their meds because it's not required for Viagra. But yes, I agree, I agree what you mean of like. I mean there's not enough sex therapists but the way the situation is broken. Like, do you ever just think, Because I think I'm like, oh my God, there's only a thousand female urologists and there's only, you know, 20,000 trained menopause people. And like, do you ever think like, oh my God, whatever sex therapists there are, there's only X of us and there's a hundred million American adults. Does this overwhelm you a little bit sometimes? Because I wouldn't say the majority of them are having great sex October is.
- [20:58]
Podcast Announcer
Menopause Awareness Month and I couldn't be more excited to join colleagues at the Menopause Society meeting in Orlando this month. It's an incredible time to connect, learn and share new insights with one another. Conversations at this annual meeting reinforce that menopause is a complex, multifaceted transition and much more than just hot flash. For example, one of the most common and disruptive concerns women share is vaginal dryness. While vaginal estrogen is the gold standard for treating vaginal dryness, lasting comfort can take more than one solution. That's where Via by Solve Wellness comes in. VIA is a non hormonal hyaluronic acid based vaginal moisturizer that can be used alongside local estrogen or on its own for those who want an alternative. It helps restore moisture, soothe delicate tissues and support daily comfort. To learn more about Via Vaginal Moisturizer by Solve Wellness, visit viaforher.com that's V I A the letter for her.com where new customers get 20 off their first purchase for an additional $5 off Via use coupon code DrKelly5. That's D, R K E L L Y5. Solve Wellness will also be at the Menopause Society meeting this year where providers can learn more about via or you can request patient education materials and samples by visiting hcp.solvewellness.com Agreed.
- [22:23]
Julianna Hauser
Or they don't even realize how their sex could be different and could be changing their life in such different ways. You know, I think about most on planes. It's so funny. I sit there on planes. I think who here is thinking about sex? I am. And I'm wondering and I think just think about in general. But then I also like do lots of problem solving on planes as well. But when I get to see a sex therapist in the wild, I'm sure it's like with you I'm like you too. And I feel like we just know what they've gone through and to be in the work that you're doing. The work that I'm doing. We have to have very thick skins. And there's a lot thrust upon us that isn't accurate. And we have to live inherently by being in this specialty. What we're teaching, it's an impossibility. Which is another thing that makes people like us intimidating and scary to people is that we are in our. We have a confidence in who we are as a sexual being because we have to know who we are and be confident in who we are as a person. Order to be in this space because it is not a friendly space inward looking outward a lot of the times. And it's also really important. We know, like, lawyers don't have wills, doctors don't go to doctor's appointments, therapists don't have therapists. In a lot of ways, as people in the sexuality world, I don't think we have an option but to do the work ourselves so that we are good stewards as well, which is a lot of pressure.
- [23:39]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I agree. I'm like, if you don't do the work of this, I wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about, first of all. And I think it would feel very inauthentic. And then I'd just be like, shilling vibrators. And don't get me wrong, I love shilling vibrators. I just think of us growing up in the Cosmopolitan magazines, etc of the one move you need tonight and the best, hottest lingerie for the winter season. And it's so superficial and it's part of the undoing, but it makes you think there's just a right skill or a right tool or a right look to obtain. And then it's Valhalla. And it's like, that's not how it works.
- [24:22]
Julianna Hauser
Correct. And you add that misinformation to the pervasive message that our worth is based on our sexual currency and add that to the space that we're both in with menopause and how women are just trying to figure out what this quote, currency is that everyone else is putting upon them while trying to figure out what they want for themselves and figuring out everything else that's happening in their body on top of it. It's a lot.
- [24:52]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
It's a lot. Dude, I'm gonna go down a dark rabbit hole real quick and then I promise I'll pull us back out. There is no more egregious symbolism of this right now than the aesthetic surgeons chopping off labia to achieve a manufactured look that in no way enhances a female's sexual performance, except for if she Believes her body image is closer to the mainstream. Improved body image can help sexual function, but it's like thousands and thousands of dollars to go through major surgery to cut off sexual organs to achieve a look.
- [25:31]
Julianna Hauser
Yeah, and, and there's some studies show that it's one of the. It's the number one surgery that is being asked to perform. And I know studies can change all the time, but it is a very surgery that people are seeking on their own and internationally it's very popular. There are some people that they do it also like if they're big bike riders and that they have big inter labor. You know, there's some physical reasons too.
- [25:53]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
If it's a medical problem and affecting function. Different story if you're doing it to look like Barbie, which is a plastic Mattel product.
- [26:01]
Podcast Announcer
Right.
- [26:02]
Julianna Hauser
I know one of the things that I'm drawn to and that I love in the work that I do is I gather lots of stories. I have so many stories of women who are need to heal from experiences of receiving oral sex sex or avoiding oral sex because of fear of what their labia looks like, fear of what their partner looking at their labia, their vulva looks like, or having an interpretation of somebody's reaction to giving oral sex based on that and having horrible genital body dysmorphia or avoidance of that experience of pleasure then can also go to like not wanting to touch themselves, which is an issue about self pleasure. But it also goes to again menopause that I I work with people that are so afraid to use vaginal cream like testosterone or estrodil cream because they don't want to touch themselves. And when we unpack it, it comes back from 30, 40 years ago. Some guy in college went down on them and rushed to wash their face afterwards or made a look like oh wow, you've got big inner lips like whoa. And that one statement from one person has changed up to the point that they now have such a negative reaction to their. And that's again like the work we're talking about, the unlearning that you have to do, the faith that you have to have. And I want to give one powerful story with that is one woman. I mean many women I have stories like this, but she and I were working together for a while. Her husband of already 20 years had said to her, I really miss oral sex. And I, you know, is there anything that we can do to help you feel more comfortable with this? And so we started working together and the story came out that this had happened in college. That a guy that she'd been dating for a while never said a word, but washed his face every time that he went down on her. And her interpretation was that she must have smelled bad or tasted bad and that's why he did it. But they never talked about it. He never said anything. It was all her interpretation. And so through the years, she just made the decision. It was untoward and she didn't want to deal with that. Fast forward afterward. We'd been working together about six months. She had a college reunion. And at the college reunion, she happened to run into this guy and made the decision to say, I know this is a lot, and this is from many, many years ago, but I have to ask you, like, do you remember, was it bad? Like, what was that about? And he knew exactly what she was talking about. He remembered. And he was like, no. He's like, one time you made a face. And so I thought that you didn't like dealing with me after I'd done that. So I was just trying to be respectful to you. And I took it off. The work that we've been doing helped her to have that conversation. And I thought this happens all the time because we don't know how to communicate and because we aren't given the space. And if you do this work. And again, it's. I just can't reiterate enough. I'm not trying to push sex acts on people. I am trying to say, don't avoid sexuality in general. And it is surprising how you can't get away from sexuality if you understand it in a broader definition. And it will come for you. And it is a much better process if you are in charge of that experience of interaction.
- [29:11]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. First of all, I'd like to say to all the. The shitty college guy, which this guy wasn't even a shitty college guy, but it's like, f them, they were kids too. We gotta let that go, man. Stop giving Steve the power on your life 40 years later. First of all, second of all, women, oral sex, just let me tell you, it's really, really, really good stuff. Like, do the. Do the work. Accept the pleasure. It's insanely pleasurable. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Like, after 330 some podcast episodes, I just feel like people need to know that. That simple fact. Yes.
- [29:50]
Julianna Hauser
And embrace your vulva. Embrace it, look at it, know it, embrace it, and work with it. There's every variation of vulva and especially labia has such potential of pleasure. And if you understand that And I've said this before, like, my. My favorite book is the Clitoral Truth. It's an old book. It's a classic. And she does such a beautiful job of combining our anatomy and our pleasure potential. And part of that is really, again, like, just embracing it. And I. There's all sorts of artwork you can do with it. There's also etiquette. This kind of. You said earlier, this isn't for everybody. I have a goal that I want to do a vulva casting.
- [30:26]
Podcast Announcer
And.
- [30:26]
Julianna Hauser
And then on top of that, like, I want to have the courage, like, put it up somewhere.
- [30:30]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
You're like, that's. That's my vulva. It's like a door knocker to, like, your new renovated house. Exactly. That's the doorbell, right?
- [30:38]
Julianna Hauser
And that's not for everybody. And that's not the goal. I want everyone to have their own version of what it feels. And for me, and when you're doing the work within sexuality, it should. You should find your way of having a nudge but not a shove. And I do so much work, and it. A lot isn't a nudge for me anymore. So I have to go a little further to have a shove to keep in the work. So vulva casting it is. But everyone else will have their own 20, 25.
- [31:04]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
We've. We're to the point of vulva casting, but you don't. You don't. But, like, that's not for beginners or.
- [31:09]
Julianna Hauser
No, it's not.
- [31:11]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Let's talk about arousal, because I'm very interested in arousal now. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna explain my theory. Cause as I'm developing it, so Masters and Johnson, Kinsey, et cetera, et cetera, the very male model of how you go from, like, desires always comes first, and then there's arousal, and then there's orgasm, and then there's resolution. It's this very linear thing. The orgasms at the top of the mountain. We call it getting over the top of the mountain. The orgasm is the end all, be all. And that's kind of how we've been trained. But the sex perts, the people who are good at sex, they prioritize time. They work on it, they explore, they see what their body can do. We are completely ignoring what I think is the most beautiful part of the whole thing. And it's living in the arousal time frame. I call it the arousal room. It's like, it's a very nice place to hang out. And nobody was taught about that.
- [32:09]
Julianna Hauser
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- [32:52]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Oh, okay, okay. Oh, what arouses me?
- [32:56]
Podcast Announcer
Normal.
- [32:57]
Julianna Hauser
Yes. And you can imagine the answer is like, yes, yes, yes.
- [33:01]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Yep. Right. Like it's a short answer. Right. It's three letter word.
- [33:03]
Julianna Hauser
It is, right. And I hate the word normal anyway, so I always correct it and say common. Yes, it's common. Yes, it is common. Not everybody feels that is arousing, but it is common. And I have really yet to come across something that isn't common because I ask people and people want to share that with me. So I have a long list of what is arousing to people. And some of it is like, oh, how interesting that that is arousing. And also how cool. It's really interesting. I feel so lucky to be in the career that I'm in because it normalizes a lot for me too, to hear what is arousing to a lot of people. And it's also really sobering to me to hear how afraid people are of what arousing them means about them. Whether it's fantasy, whether it's thoughts, whether it's actual, the acts or when they're in the room. And to get to your point, like, once we can get past that part and embrace what arouses us, when you can get to that place, I agree with you. There is a humming, there's an energy force in that arousal state that you really can harness for confidence for your relationship, connections for your overall wellness and ability to be content. And that probably sounds to some people like, what are you talking about? But if you. It's true, it does. And there is a happiness associated with arousal for most people. And I use content more than happiness because there are some people that arousal state is about pain. And so I don't want to confuse that aspect. There is a different energy that you live in that is good for the science of your body when you don't resist arousal. And there's a lot of psychology that works into not resisting arousal.
- [34:54]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Are there books or. I don't even know, like, where do people go just to learn about, like, the arousal? Because I think arousal is like, you know, it's the. At the stoplight, take a left on your way to orgasm. I'm like, now, I hope no, like, brand new beginners are listening to this episode because now we're kind of. We're getting into like the advanced topic of like, fuck the orgasm. Just hang out in arousal, right? Yes. Right. Are there good resources on just like getting into the arousal space?
- [35:24]
Podcast Announcer
Yes.
- [35:24]
Julianna Hauser
And actually I'll send you links to put into the show notes of it. Also, there are people.
- [35:29]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Kath and Jessie.
- [35:30]
Julianna Hauser
Yes, yes.
- [35:31]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Kath and Jesse. I was looking for their books right now. I think their books are. Talk a lot about like, living in the female arousal state. Not living there like you're loading the dishwasher, but, like having your intimate time. Be more prioritized on arousal than like the orgasm and finishing the orgasm. Like, it's a radical rethink of what sex is.
- [35:56]
Julianna Hauser
Yes. The way that some people will describe it too is that if you've heard people talking about how to control the male orgasm, like the male ejaculation, like being able to stop and start that, it's not completely dissimilar for that. For women, it's just harder to visually see that or to have as much to it. There's a little bit more psychology to it.
- [36:18]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah.
- [36:18]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
You're saying, like, it'd be like female ejaculatory control is kind of staying in the arousal state.
- [36:24]
Julianna Hauser
Correct.
- [36:25]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
It's.
- [36:26]
Julianna Hauser
It's similar to it. And that's how some people speak about it. There's the physical aspect of it and then there's the mental aspect of staying in there in the arousal state. And there's techniques for both and like the ecstatic breathwork. Barbara Caroles is to me one of. One of the top people who. Her book is called Urban Tantra and she speaks a lot about. She's really stepped away from some of her work, but she is one of the pioneers of pleasure and was a contemporary of Betty Dotson also and just a beautiful person who's doing really, really good work. And her book is very accessible to understanding that. And breath work wasn't something that for me came easily. It didn't connect with me as much until I started working with Barbara. And the first time that she Calls it like a static breathing. We did an essential that like breathing circle. And I got it and I was like, whoa, that is powerful. It is true. And some people call it like fire breathing. There's a lot of things you can learn again, that's. It's a little more in it once you've done some of the other stuff first. But, but what I'm saying is there is something for everybody to find your entry point into that room. So my first pillar of holistic sexuality is sensuality. And the reason why it's first is because everyone has senses. You may have different access or you may not have all your senses, but everyone has some of those senses. And if you start there, it's really a journey of embodiment. And when you can connect to your body or reconnect with your body, if it's changing, then that gives you just the world becomes your oyster of figuring out all those things. And you get to redefine what arousal means. And arousal can mean yum. It's as simple as that word. And how that feeling happens in your body. Two, arousal can be you are just about to climax and anything in between that. And I think most people when they're thinking arousal, they are thinking lubrication, they are thinking panting, they are thinking like they're, you know, really involved in this sex act buildup. And that's part of it. But I also think their arousal state is an embodied state. And that was a huge journey for me. It didn't come easily for me.
- [38:41]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
It's a very much like a present moment. But like wanting to stay here versus I need to get to orgasm.
- [38:49]
Podcast Announcer
Right.
- [38:50]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Like breaking that cultural linear pathway and being like, I actually just wanna stay here. I wanna hang out in this room. I like this room a lot. That's a whole new way of thinking about things. And probably not like beginner 101 at this point point, but yeah.
- [39:07]
Julianna Hauser
And sometimes it is 101. Because sometimes climax or orgasm isn't on the table or it isn't on the table yet. And when we position it on the pedestal of the the only thing that is worthy in our sexual lives, then the arousal room sounds like the foyer and not its own like beautiful room is like, well, I mean we'll stay here. And what you're saying is, and that's why it's the radical thought is arousal can be in and of itself really good for you and enough. And it doesn't have to be the lesser than of who we are as sexual beings. It can really be Something like, put your foot in. Put your toe in the door. Just try that. And sometimes that's exactly where you have to start. It doesn't have to be something that you build into.
- [39:58]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
If there's feelings that come up or freeze states or stress when arousal enters the body or you get there, that's when we would want to bring in a sex therapist.
- [40:08]
Julianna Hauser
Right. And just learning our brain is. Is such a big help and such a big hindrance to our. I mean, what you're talking about really is the excitation cycle, which. I don't love that word either. Please come up with something else. I want a different graph for it. The graph really pisses me off. It's. It's such a misogynistic way of looking at it.
- [40:26]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
The linear one that goes boom, boom.
- [40:28]
Podcast Announcer
Boom, and bumps up.
- [40:29]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Yeah, yeah. Like, I think we're talking about that. That's like Masters and Johnson or Kinsey or something. It's like. It's like these round little humps and then orgasms at the top.
- [40:37]
Julianna Hauser
And there's another one that has, like, it's more jagged, and then it has this plateau, and it actually makes the orgasm look like it's nothing as well. It's. It's. It's bizarre, but it's. It's really not based on. On female pleasure and the female arousal cycle. It isn't. But anyway, we could talk about that.
- [40:56]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
You're like, when you redesign that, please publish it. Please come back on the podcast.
- [41:00]
Podcast Announcer
Right.
- [41:00]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
So your book, and I would encourage people to get the book because it goes very thorough into the nine pillars of holistic sexuality. We do have time, though.
- [41:09]
Julianna Hauser
You're in the book, too.
- [41:10]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I'm in the book?
- [41:11]
Julianna Hauser
Yes. Yeah. I put a shout out to you.
- [41:13]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Search for it. Thank you. But we do have time for you. Will you tell us about your favorite pillar?
- [41:17]
Julianna Hauser
Yes. So I mentioned sensuality in it. One of my favorite pillars is connection, and it's one of the last ones that we get to. And it's because I think it is. So it's. It's often really a powerhouse of what sexuality really should mean. And it's also been a place where it has been weaponized the most and that a lot of people have to. To back away from to unlearn.
- [41:45]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Ooh, the weaponization of connection.
- [41:50]
Julianna Hauser
Yeah. So I wait. I. I wait us through the other pillars so that the. The technique of going into each of these pillars has more of a muscle memory. And then I hit you with. It's so beautiful when people are ready for it and prepared to. The bravery muscle has already started. And you really need to have a lot of bravery to get into what connection means to you. Because, again, it gets into, I'll say just even religion. Religion is a big place that we have to unpack things for people in the sexuality world, for some people, not everybody. And I talk about it in this pillar of how do you make sense of things that you were taught that your body didn't necessarily agree with, but society told you this, and it becomes this, like, tanglement. And now where you are in your life, what feels right for you, and if you're still in a religious setting, how do you make sense of that? And for instance, like, the sex before marriage is the only good marriage or is the only good sex and it's the only sanctioned sex, like, that is still so pervasive in people's body that even if they've been married for 25 years, they still have this guttural reaction to it that they. They still feel bad. I've had people that have asked me, do you think that the ghost of my father watches us have sex? Like, what do I do about that? And. And how do I get out of that aspect of it? Which isn't necessarily the first thing you think of with connection. That's just one. That's actually just like, two paragraphs in that chapter, because there's so much richness and in what connection is. But I try to bring home the concept that. That holistic sexuality is the core of who you are. It's the essence of you. And if you are reviewing and doing these nine pillars, it is a 360 view of who you are as a. As a being and as a therapist. What I see more than anything is that people can live a long time in pain, which may be different than what you see with your patients. But people can't live a long time without their purpose, without a purpose. And how you define purpose is different for everybody. But in almost everyone's definition of what their purpose is, is connection is an aspect of it. And for the people who have. Who really know who they are, have an authentic view of who they are, those are the people whose connections, like when they show up to be seen and to be valued and to be wanted. When they show up authentically to another person or a community, they're the ones who actually get to experience the amazingness of being seen, wanted, and valued for the truth of who they are. When you are. When you don't know who you are, when you're Performing when you are keeping parts of yourself hidden through shame and trauma and all the other things that happen between us and the truth of us, or they just haven't spent the time for self development, you don't get the richness and goodness of it. When someone wants you sexually, it doesn't feel like the truth of you, which really devalues the experience and the connection, as opposed to when you show up in the truth of who you are and somebody wants you, you're like, that's right.
- [44:49]
Podcast Announcer
Fuck.
- [44:50]
Julianna Hauser
Yes, you want me. Yes, this is. And I want to be wanted in this. And that's just the sexual word, wanting. But I just mean, even just like, do you want to be friends with me? Do you like me? And to really be able to accept some of these. Yeah, I do. Sure. I think you're great. You have to know who they're saying yes to and who you're offering to them. And as a therapist, I see so much pain of people. It's how you say, like, I have tons of friends and I'm so lonely, or I'm in this marriage and I'm so lonely in this. It's because we haven't done that level of work in our connection. And again, back to your point that the ripple effect when you do, when you do know who you are, sometimes it means you end relationships, but it often means you're cutting out the weeds and you are letting the flowers grow and the right people come in.
- [45:42]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
There's a lack of authenticity that you start becoming intolerable to Correct. And I think what you're saying. I'm trying to cram this in in three minutes. But what you're saying is, like, women want to be wanted. And ideally, you're going to be wanted for who you are, how you show up your whole package. And I think we sell our. And because we don't know who that is, we sell ourselves short in saying, I want to be sexually wanted because I've got the right lips or I've got the right breasts or I've got the right hips or I've got the right vulva. It's a sloppy, sloppy second or third to actually being wanted for who you are. And then those other things really don't matter.
- [46:25]
Julianna Hauser
Yes, that's it.
- [46:26]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
I think that's absolutely huge and an amazing place to stop. And now I need to, like, go write a blog post on that. Tell us where we can find your book and find you, my good friend. Yes.
- [46:39]
Julianna Hauser
So I have a page on my website, Dr. Juliana, that all the links to the online world where you can choose what store you want to buy it in, but it's Barnes and Noble and Amazon are the bigger places where you can buy my book. September 23 Yay.
- [46:55]
Dr. Kelly Casperson
Go learn about it. Holistic Sexuality the Nine Pillars of Holistic Sexuality this was an amazingly fun and I hope insightful conversation for a lot of people today.
- [47:05]
Julianna Hauser
Thank you, thank you, thank you for.
- [47:08]
Podcast Announcer
Listening to this week's episode of youf Are Not Broken. If you want to dig deeper with me, sign up for my Adult Sex Education Masterclass where you learn adult things like communication skills, anatomy lessons and desire types, and how to talk to your doctor about sexual health concerns. If you want the Adult Sex Education Masterclass for free, join my monthly membership for more in depth exclusive content, more time with yours truly. A private podcast, coaching and educational empowerment and you can watch my interviews live and get them immediately without advertising. Head over to www.kellycaspersonmd.com for the membership and Adult Sex Ed Masterclass members get the Master class for free. This podcast is presented solely for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. I am a doctor but not your doctor in this format and all of my platforms and guests including on this podcast are not giving individual medical advice or practicing medicine medicine. See in Consult with your own care team for your individual needs and concerns. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for the care and advice of a physician, therapist or other qualified professional. This podcast does not constitute the practice of medicine, in case you were curious about that and no doctor patient relationship is formed. But I still love you. Using the information on this podcast or any of my platforms is at your own risk. Until next time, remember you are not broken.