Podcast Summary: You Are Not So Smart, Episode 322 — Intellectual Humility with Dr. Tenelle Porter

Published: September 15, 2025
Host: David McRaney
Guest: Dr. Tenelle Porter (Assistant Professor of Psychology at Rowan University)
Special Segment: Includes appearance/interview from the podcast “How to Be a Better Human” with host Chris Duffy

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into intellectual humility — what it means, why it’s crucial, and what recent psychology research (especially by Dr. Tenelle Porter) reveals about its development and impact. The first third of the episode offers host David McRaney’s philosophical and scientific framing of intellectual humility, including classic quotes, studies, and a breakdown of its meaning. The remainder features a rich interview with Dr. Porter (moderated by Chris Duffy) that makes the science tangible, from childhood development to practical tips for daily life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Intellectual Humility

[04:35, 34:23]

• Host Framing:

  • Intellectual humility is “the degree to which you recognize, accept, and willingly admit the limitations of your cognitive abilities.”
  • True intellectual humility means recognizing the limits of knowledge, accepting you may be wrong, and being open to new perspectives and corrections.

• Expert Definition (Dr. Tenelle Porter):

  "Intellectual humility means understanding what you don't know and recognizing that you might be wrong… Our knowledge is partial, that nobody knows everything there is to know, and therefore we sometimes get things wrong." — Tenelle Porter [34:23]

2. The Science & Psychology of Intellectual Humility

[04:35–24:15, 37:28]

• Cognitive Biases:

  • “Illusion of explanatory depth” is a common bias where people overestimate how well they understand how things work — until pressed for details (e.g., explaining a zipper, toilet, or lock).
  • Intellectual humility relates to recognizing this overconfidence and being open to updating beliefs in light of evidence.

• Relation to Science:

  • Science is “a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.”
  • Scientists thrive on intellectual humility out of necessity; research is a constant engagement with being proven wrong, which builds rigor and progress.

• Memorable Quote:

  "Science works because unlike politics and business, the people in scientific institutions will shame and ostracize their peers for not accepting evidence that calls into question their prior assumptions." — David McRaney [21:42]

3. Development Across the Lifespan

[38:29, 39:40]

• Children:
  • Young children (e.g., 4-year-olds) often claim complete knowledge, but accuracy improves with age and education.
• Teens:
  • Contrary to stereotypes, teenagers are not necessarily less humble or more narcissistic than others. As they mature, humility and accuracy about what they know generally increase.
• Adults:
  • Older adults may become more intellectually humble — wisdom through lived experience and embracing human fallibility.

Quote:

"With experience, you really come to just appreciate this fact of being a human being, which is that, to be human is to err.”
— Tenelle Porter [39:55]

4. Measuring and Encouraging Intellectual Humility

[37:28, 44:41]

• Scientific Measures:

  • Surveys and behavioral tasks (e.g., how many contrary perspectives a high schooler will engage with about a contentious issue).

• Behavioral Observation:

  • Intellectual humility is observed not just in self-report but willingness to read and consider opposing views.

• Modeling & Context:

  • Teachers and leaders set the tone. Modeling humility licenses others to do the same.
  • Environments (classrooms, families, online) can stifle or support its display.

• Family/Parenting:

  "Find ways to model it. Say you're asked a question and you're not sure… Like, trying to model intellectual humility. I'm not sure. Maybe we can try to look it up together." — Tenelle Porter [60:13]

5. Intellectual Humility in Relationships & Society

[42:13–44:29, 64:46]

• Relationships:

  • Sharing “I don’t know” strengthens trust; hiding behind jargon or rigid certainty is off-putting and less honest.

• Polarization:

  • Online, social and political environments reward rigidity, but face-to-face people are often more open.
  • Societal progress and better relations depend on “holding space for the possibility we might be wrong.”

• Gender & Identity:

  • Boys are less likely to admit not knowing due to perceived weakness; girls often hesitate to “take up class time” and ask questions, unless humility is modeled.
  • Non-binary experiences and questioning old categories invite both humility and confidence.

• Societal Impact:

  "If people really embrace this, we would see more progress. I think we would learn more, because we would begin to stop holding so tightly to what we think is true so we might question and push the boundaries further, which would allow us to progress… If we embrace intellectual humility, we find it's easier to get along and love each other." — Tenelle Porter [64:46]

6. Finding the Right Balance: Confidence and Humility

[40:19, 50:25, 51:07]

• It's not about weakness or indecision:
  • Intellectual humility can co-exist with confidence and even requires it:

    "I'm so confident that I'm willing to be vulnerable in this way, that I am wrong or I don't understand that." — Tenelle Porter [40:33]

  • Avoiding analysis paralysis — being stuck in uncertainty — is key.

7. Practical Ways to Build Intellectual Humility

[57:08]

• Porter’s Recommendations:

  1. Perspective-taking:
     • Step back and imagine the conflict from 20 years in the future, or as a neutral observer (“fly on the wall”).
  2. Remind Yourself of Benefits:
     • Recall why humility helps learning, relationships, and honesty.
  3. Grounding in Values:
     • Reflect on your core values before difficult conversations to anchor yourself and be secure/open.
  4. Growth Mindset:
     • Embrace the possibility of change—for both yourself and others.

• Role Modeling for Parents/Teachers:

  "Practice what you preach… Try showing it to [your kids, your brother, your students] first and see what happens. It's not a guarantee, but it's going to work a lot better than yelling at him to be more humble." — Tenelle Porter [52:55]

8. Quotable Moments & Highlights

• Feynman on Uncertainty:

  "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong."
  — Richard Feynman [03:10, 24:15]

• Carl Sagan on Science & Humility:

  "It seems to me that what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs, the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypothes that are served up to us, and at the same time, a great openness to new ideas."
  — Carl Sagan, quoted by David McRaney [24:27]

• On Cultural Current:

  "It feels to me like we are in a cultural moment where there's very little cultural capital in having flexibility, and there's quite a lot of rewards and cultural pressure to be rigid in your beliefs." — Chris Duffy [43:44]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Host Framing (On Humility & Illusions):
  • [01:13–24:15] — David McRaney
• Classic Science Communicators on Humility (Sagan, Feynman):
  • [03:10], [24:15]
• Science & Intellectual Humility:
  • [24:27] — Sagan on skepticism & openness
• Porter Interview Begins (How to Be a Better Human):
  • [33:26–65:32]
• Dr. Porter Defines Intellectual Humility:
  • [34:23]
• Measuring/Studying Humility:
  • [37:30]
• Development Across Childhood–Adulthood:
  • [38:41]
• Balance with Confidence:
  • [40:19]
• Practical Tips for Building Humility:
  • [57:08]
• Gender & Social Dynamics:
  • [62:02]
• Society & Cultural Impact:
  • [64:33]
• Endnote & Reflection:
  • [65:39–67:17+]

Tone & Style Highlights

• Conversational, Curious, Lighthearted:
  Host Chris Duffy brings humor and relatable anecdotes (e.g., the “wrong airplane seat” story and standup comedy “bombing”) to illustrate principles.
• Accessible Yet Rigorous:
  Dr. Porter presents complex research simply, underscoring her own intellectual humility.
• Encouraging, Reflective:
  The conversation encourages introspection and acknowledges the difficulty—but also the rewards—of practicing intellectual humility.

Conclusion

This episode provides a rich, multi-perspective exploration of intellectual humility: philosophical, practical, and scientific. Listeners gain not only a crisp definition but actionable steps for self-improvement and recipe for stronger social fabric—at home, in school, and in society at large.

Standout Quote:

"To be intellectually humble is to accept that you are the unreliable narrator in all the stories you tell yourself about yourself and about others and about the world in general."
— David McRaney [20:53]

Recommended For:
Anyone interested in self-development, psychology, education, science communication, social change, or tackling polarization with grace and curiosity.

For more resources and details:
Visit youarenotsosmart.com or check the show notes in your podcast player.