← You Can! Inspiring Women In Business
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- [00:06]
A
Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the UCAN Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Doddy Jarvis, and today we are going to be joined by Savannah and we're going to be talking around mentoring. Okay. And the value of mentoring. Obviously, I'm a mentor and Savannah's a mentor and I'm going to let her introduce herself to you and before we get started. So over to you, Savannah.
- [00:26]
B
Lovely to be here. Thanks so much, Sarah. Yeah, I'm Savannah. So I am a mentor for cake business owners. So I initially started as a cake maker myself, which I've been doing and still doing actually for the last sort of 13 years. And in the last two to three years I've moved over to coaching and mentoring and actually online courses as well. So a bit of everything. But yes, slowly stepping away from making the cakes to now teaching.
- [00:57]
A
Sounds good. Sounds good. Okay, so what got you into making? Let's start with the profession in itself. So what got you into making cakes?
- [01:07]
B
Kind of fell into it. It wasn't a decision that was consciously made. I just found myself bored one day, so I was like, right, let's just make some cupcakes. And I'm pretty sure that's how all cake makers start. It's like, I'm bored, let's just make something. So I made some cupcakes and they looked horrific, but they tasted really nice and I really enjoyed doing it. So I just did more and more and more and then I got really good at it pretty quickly. So I was like, you know what, I could do this as a side hobby. I had a full time job at the time, so corporate job. So I was like, let's just do this as a side business and make some extra money. And that's what I did for years. And then I slowly graduated from cupcakes to cakes, celebration cakes, birthday cakes, that sort of thing. And then slowly moved into the wedding sector. So now I am solely wedding cakes and that is actually what was my full time business before moving into the coaching.
- [02:06]
A
So how long have you been doing this for?
- [02:09]
B
So the cakes I. About 13 years and then the coaching for about two years.
- [02:16]
A
And as a hobby before you started taking it seriously?
- [02:20]
B
Honestly, it was only about six months.
- [02:22]
A
No way.
- [02:24]
B
Yeah, it was one of those things that I just loved doing and I could never really see myself in the corporate world at all. So it was just one of those things you're told to go out and get a job. So I did. Didn't enjoy it, but found something I did enjoy and I Loved feeding people these cakes and then sort of watching their reaction. And that was what hooked me. It was. It was like, oh, they really like my stuff. I'm going to make more and more and more. And I think my husband at the time, he was, he was like, yeah, they're nice, but you'll never be able to sell anything. So it was a. I'm going to prove you wrong. And I did. And now he. Well, he loves everything because he gets to eat all the offcuts.
- [03:10]
A
Nice. And so does. Is that what you find most people do? They kind of fall into it and then do it as a side hustle and then move into it full time. Is that the normal pattern for your kind of client base?
- [03:22]
B
Yeah, from what I've seen, yes, that is the normal pattern from. I'll make some for, like, kids birthdays. You know, most people start with that. It's like, oh, I want to make a cake for my child's first birthday. And they will cobble something together, usually from a box. They'll love the process of the decorating more than anything. And they're kind of like, right, well, I did it last year, I'm going to do it this year, so I'm going to make an even better cake than I made last year. And then their friends sort of say, oh, can I have one? That that cake was really lovely. Do you want to make my kid a cake? And that's usually the pattern that happens. And then they sort of start doing more and more and more and before they know it, that they've created a business almost for themselves. And the next, obviously, next progression from that is to start making money from it. So that's what I normally see. It's very rare that somebody comes along and says, I want to start a cake business because I want to start a cake business. It's usually they've fallen into it somehow.
- [04:24]
A
Yeah, it's kind of a. It's kind of an evolution of a hobby, isn't it?
- [04:28]
B
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Definitely. I mean, it certainly was for me. I never thought from making those first cupcakes that I was going to start making money from it, let alone have that as my main business. It just wasn't something that I pictured, but. And. And I think that's the case for so many others as well. It's. It's something to do in the spare time.
- [04:49]
A
Yeah.
- [04:49]
B
You know, we all have these corporate jobs or most people do, and spirit. Spare time baking is really relaxing. And I think that's how they start and then the more you do it, the more you enjoy it and the more you want to do it. And then it's that. So exactly the same as me. Watching other people enjoy something you've made is incredible. It just gives you such a high. And that's what most people fall in love with. Not like the baking itself. It's more the feeling that everyone else gets from what you've made, the outcome.
- [05:21]
A
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And so what is the biggest pitfall that you see people falling into when they come from that? Because coming from that place, I, my kind of client base tend to come more from a. I don't want to work in this, in this environment, I want to work for myself. Whereas I think your guys, it's interesting and that's why I kind of wanted to chat with you because they've kind of accidentally ended up with a business. Whereas my client base tend to want a business, but what they actually end up selling isn't so fixed, particularly when it's kind of service and it's skill based. They're kind of then looking at what the market wants rather than what, you know, this is, this is my thing. So what do you, what, what for you is the biggest pitfall people have when it comes to changing their hobby into a business?
- [06:13]
B
Treating it like a hobby, that is. Yeah, absolutely. Even though they've registered and they've said, right, this is going to be a business and I'm going to make money from this, they still treat it like a hobby. They still undercharge everybody because they're new to it or, you know, then they're not as good as that person over there. And that's all they do is they keep treating it like a hobby. And my job now is to make them realize, no, this is not a hobby. If you want this to be your full time job, which is always, inevitably what happens is they will start this as a side business, treat it like a hobby and never go any further. They'll stay in their corporate job dreaming of making cakes full time but never getting there. And yeah, that's, that's the biggest thing I see. And it's trying to educate people. It is a business no longer a hobby, so you have to do things differently. That's, that's the number one issue that.
- [07:15]
A
I have with cake makers is switching that mindset.
- [07:19]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [07:20]
A
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I, I do feel like with. My client base is predominantly female, presumably yours is too. I do feel like we have a bit of a problem with enjoying something and charging for it.
- [07:34]
B
Absolutely.
- [07:35]
A
It's like we've been greedy. It's like, oh, wait a minute, you know, because I like this, I shouldn't really charge somebody so much. Whereas the guys that I work with are very comfortable to charge, you know, for the value of what they provide and then enjoy the process as well. Whereas we feel it almost like we, I don't know, we're stealing, taking advantage of people because we're also getting this, like, side, you know, hit of, of happiness and enjoyment from what we do.
- [08:02]
B
I find it exactly the same and I completely agree. It's this whole mindset for women is I'm enjoying what I'm doing, so surely I can't charge for that. You know, this is fun. Whereas, yeah, men, obviously, they are just programmed to just go and sell, sell, sell. It's just so much easier for them. But. And I wish it wasn't the case.
- [08:25]
A
But it is, it is, it is. And so, you know, I've. I've talked before because I've. I've come across clients who, they've had competitors who were doing things as a bit of a side hustle, a bit of fun, and even to the level of vets and them having vets who are mobile vets, so they come to your house rather than have a clinic and. And they were doing it as kind of like, oh, kind of keep me busy. And that actually can have a really negative impact on the market that they're in, in that area, because you're undercutting everybody else and then that makes it that your competition, they just, you know, it's a very good way of removing competition from, from an area. But it really is quite damaging, isn't it?
- [09:12]
B
Yeah, it's really damaging to the industry as a whole, not necessarily just in your area. For cake makers, we find not only that people are undercharging because they don't want to sell, we're finding that a lot of people are selling as if they're a business but aren't. So they are charging mates rates to everyone around them where they've not even registered. They don't have the qualifications, they don't have the insurance and it's a really difficult thing to tackle. So educating everybody to charge what should be charged helps. You know, as soon as you start charging the right amount, you don't have the people that are looking for cheap cake and you educate the area that you live in, the cake isn't cheap, it is a luxury. If they want cheap cake. Then there's a supermarket down the road. This is, you know, it is a bespoke item and we have to sell it as such. So, you know, when, when somebody says, but that cake maker charged me half the price you're charging, it's like, okay, that, that cake maker needs educating. Because it's. First of all, they're probably not even making a profit. And again, it comes back to, is this a hobby or is it a business? Because if it's a business, you need profit.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And they're probably not making profit. So it goes back to, everybody's still treating it like a hobby. And the person that is out there charging their worth and trying this, a really successful business, is constantly getting people saying, you're too expensive and it's just not the case.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. And so what, you know, where do you fit in? How can you help somebody with something like that? As a mentor.
- [11:00]
B
So my job as a mentor is to basically, I've been through all of it. You know, I did start as a hobby and I did transition into a business and I did keep it going like it was a hobby for years. And it wasn't until I really understood that to make this a success and to be the full time cakeman that I wanted, something had to change. And I started to look to other mentors in completely different businesses because there aren't many cake makers out there who have turned into a mentor. So, you know, I was looking at other businesses and I was like, they're treating it like a business so I need to do the same thing. And I did that for years and I built my business to what it is today, which is a full time wedding cake business and making the money that supports me, my family and my lifestyle. And then I saw everyone else not doing that. So I needed to do something to boost this business because it is declining. You know, whether it's the economy or anything like that, it is declining. And unless the cake makers themselves are willing to change, it's going to disappear and nobody's going to have a business. So for me to educate everybody, they don't know what they're doing wrong. First of all, I have to make them aware of what they're doing. So, you know, that is my priority. First of all, it's like you're looking at that cake maker over there who is successful, who charges their worth, who has so many followers on social media and you're complaining you're not as good as them, you're not as successful. As them. Well, it's likely you're not doing the stuff you need to do as a business to have that success. So it's changing mindset. First of all, I think for me, mindset is a massive thing to be coached on and most people don't even think they've got an issue until you start telling them. So that's where I start. I start with the whole mindset of this is a business. Let's get you thinking like that. So, you know, do you want this to be a full time business? Do you want it to be a hobby? You need to make a decision. And then that's. Once they've made that decision, I can then coach them on what comes next. Obviously there are so many different cake businesses out there. Whether they want to do celebration cakes or wedding cakes or luxury or anything. Knowing what they want first of all is the first step. And then once we know that, we can move on to the next step, which is running a business.
- [13:36]
A
Okay, that makes sense. And then, you know, we, we had a bit of an exchange over Instagram on like mentoring and what, you know, what constitutes a mentor. And for me it is that real. You've been there, done it, like you're able to guide that individual through it. Whereas coaching tends to be more of a, of a supporting that person to come to their own thought process on it. What is your take on that?
- [13:58]
B
Yeah, completely agree with that. I would say I am a mentor because I support them and direct them in the way that they want to go. Whereas a coach will listen to what they want and pretty much just listen and help them talk stuff through and come to their own conclusions.
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A
Yeah.
- [14:20]
B
Whereas I'm not that person. I am the person that says, right, you want to do this, this is how it's done, go and do it. And for me that works better. Rather than just listening to what they want. And I mean, you are kind of guiding them as a coach, but you're more leading them with questions and getting them to come to their own conclusions.
- [14:44]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [14:45]
B
And as a mentor, I want to see them succeed and having that experience of doing it myself, I would never go to a mentor who was never done what they are teaching, essentially. So knowing that I've been through all the struggles and it's not that I can only coach or mentor cake makers who do wedding cakes because I actually started with cupcakes, then I did celebration cakes for about eight years before going into weddings. I've done it all.
- [15:16]
A
Yeah.
- [15:16]
B
I've gone through all the different stages that typically everybody goes through. So I am in the position where I'm able to say to them, you're doing this wrong. If you want this, you need to do this.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that's my impression of a mentor. Coaching is a little bit more hands off.
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A
It's a little less assertive, I feel, isn't it? That's, that's.
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B
Yes.
- [15:41]
A
That's why I kind of. I went towards the label of mentor quite early because I am quite opinionated and I just can't sit there and be like, well, I'm not sure you should do that and be thinking that but not saying that and doing more sort of guiding. And my thought process is, I've worked with mentors, I've only worked with business mentors. And I really like the fact that you are behind where they were. You're on the same sort of journey, you're doing the same sorts of things and they're able to say, well, actually, this is what worked for me. This isn't what worked for me. This is what's going on. You probably want to look at this. And you only get that through experience. And when you look back at your own journey and understand the processes that you've gone through and the understandings, like we started out our first business when we came back from traveling with cupcakes. We did cupcakes. And then from there we evolved into different stuff and a food subscription box and all sorts of stuff. It was very much a kind of starting out, which is why I was. Because when I was following you and you had that, that amazing little fondant machine and I was like, epic. I love it. It's like basically it's like an electric mangler, isn't it? It's like basically, yes. But I was like, that is epic because you just feed it through. And it was, you know, it is a journey. And that person that started on that journey to where you are now, it's like, you know, if you had somebody that you could tap into who's done all those things, and I think that's where the mentoring comes in, is this person has done it, they've made those mistakes, you can avoid those mistakes, they'll help you to avoid those mistakes. And so you're tapping into that knowledge of somebody having been doing that for 10 plus years, which is a totally different scenario to working through and talking through and kind of looking at particular subjects and being supported. Supported in that it's a lot more directional, isn't it?
- [17:44]
B
Very much so, yeah. I wish I had somebody Back then, who I could just get in touch with and say, look, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think? And actually get some advice about whether I should or shouldn't do it or at least give me the pros and cons rather than just trying to figure it out myself. And a lot of the times failing. Obviously I learned from all the failures and I got to where I wanted to go, but I got there slowly.
- [18:10]
A
Yeah.
- [18:11]
B
And if I had somebody to help me, to give me answers, to give me support and be direct, then I would have got there a lot quicker. So has a. Having a mentor is essential. I mean, I've. I've had a few. I've got one now. No, they're not in the cake business, but they are where I want to go eventually. They've done it all. So, you know, they've done the mentoring and they're further along than I am. So having a mentor that's done what you've done has got to a place where you can see yourself is. Is so important. But a lot of people don't see that, unfortunately.
- [18:49]
A
No. And that's the thing is, is. And I think when you are looking for a mentor, one of the places to start is to look at the social media and look at what that person is doing now. And you know, because for me, a lot of the time people are. There's elements of marketing, sales and marketing that need working on. That's why people predominantly work with me. And when you look at the. Their social medias, if they're marketing themselves in a way, I always liken it to. We had a client from the agency side of stuff for the. Outside of stuff that business I've got. And we had a client who would go on to TikTok and she would stand on her dining room table in a Wonder Woman outfit and do all sorts of dancing and all sorts of stuff. And. And she was really comfortable with that. And when then the team were like, Sarah, how about TikTok? I'm like, I'm absolutely not getting on a table with one woman out. And that was, to me was like, that is what you have to do on TikTok. It is obviously not. That's how that person did TikTok, but it's looking at the way that that person markets themselves. If you're like, you know what, I can see myself, I'd be comfortable doing that. That's within my kind of parameters of willing to do, then that's great. If they're doing stuff, if they're Doing practices, if they're saying things, if they're making claims, if they've got structures and funnels and things like that in place that you wouldn't want to go down that route, then they're probably not the best person for you. And so, you know, what could you add to that? What would you like if you were saying, people were saying to you, how do I go about finding a mentor? What would be kind of your tips for finding a mentor that's the right fit for them?
- [20:24]
B
I think essentially it's looking at where they ended up. Is that the direction you can see yourself going in? Because I ended up as a wedding cake maker, which doesn't necessarily mean my, the people who choose me as a mentor don't necessarily want to end up as a wedding cake maker, but they can see that the end result was a full time cake business.
- [20:50]
A
Yeah.
- [20:51]
B
So I would say if you're looking for a mentor, the final stage before they started becoming a mentor essentially is the point that you want to go to.
- [21:02]
A
Yeah.
- [21:03]
B
If somebody is wanting to have a shop selling cakes and things like that, that's probably not for me because I've never done that. Yeah, that wasn't, you know that, that was not my path. That is not what I wanted to do. I work from home and that's my specialty. Running a cake business from your own home, making it your full time career is the point where people need to be to choose me. If they do want to do it maybe alongside their full time job, they don't ever want to quit their full time job or they want to open a physical shop and, or do online orders, then you would find somebody who's been there and done that and been successful at that to be your mentor. So top tip is just find somebody who got to the point where you can see yourself getting to. I mean everybody changes over time. So in five years you might actually change the way you want to go. Your direction could change, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to know that now. So find somebody now who is your goal. Who is your goal and then in five years time if you've, if you've changed, find somebody else who's doing the new thing that you want to do. So yeah, that's top tip.
- [22:16]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. So if people want to find out more about you, is. Is Instagram your main place? Is that the main place you hang out?
- [22:24]
B
It is, yes. Instagram, the cake business academy. Same on Facebook as well. I'm not on Tick Tock because I am one of those people that will not dance on a table and do funny things.
- [22:36]
A
I'm just not that funny. I'm just not. No, I'm just not that entertained.
- [22:40]
B
No, I. I did give it a go. Um, it just wasn't for me. So, you know, if you're looking for a mentor that does TikTok, I'm not your person.
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A
That's the thing, isn't it? Is. Where do you hang out? Where do they hang out? You know, that's the kind of stuff that you want to be looking at. But then, yeah, you know, if you do want to break into Instagram, then there you go. Savannah's your person.
- [22:59]
B
Yes. That is my number one place. Yes.
- [23:03]
A
Nice. Well, it's been so nice chatting to you. Thank you very much for having me and you. Thank you for having me. I will put Savannah's Instagram link in the show notes so that you can grab it from there and find out more about her. But thank you so much for your time, Savannah. Guys, I look forward to speaking to you next week where we'll have a solo episode where I'll be talking more around growing your business and building that business. That's it for me, guys. Bye for now.