Abbi Jacobson

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Abbi Jacobson
Date: September 28, 2022

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode of You Made It Weird features actor/writer/comedian Abbi Jacobson (of Broad City and Amazon's A League of Their Own). Pete and Abbi dig into the “secret weirdness” of showbiz, creativity, self-care, and identity with an easy, sleepover-like intimacy. Their conversation weaves through childcare, social media angst, self-care, growing up with artist parents, breaking into comedy, the making of Broad City, and Abbi's late discovery of her queer identity. The tone is casual, sincere, and brimming with both silly riffs and serious self-reflection.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Sleepovers, Parenting, and Instinct ([08:23]–[12:33])

• Sleepover Vibes: Pete compares the podcast vibe to a sleepover for instant comfort.
• Parenting Instincts: Discussion of biology-focused parenting vs modern “sleep training.”
• Decision Fatigue: Abbi expresses uncertainty about future parenting choices, relating pet training decisions to the pressures of parental “correctness.”

“[Parenting advice]...it’s insane.” — Pete Holmes ([12:33])

2. Art of the Reimagining: A League of Their Own ([15:59]–[20:19])

• Reimagining vs. Reboot: Abbi insists the show is a “reimagining,” not a simple reboot.
• Fan Resistance: Pete and Abbi reflect on internet backlash to reboots, and the emotional stakes behind beloved cultural properties.

“People get really upset when you’re going to reboot their thing. Well, you’re rebooting a memory.” — Pete Holmes ([17:01])

3. Navigating Internet & Social Media Pressure ([20:19]–[24:23])

• Social Media Dilemma: Abbi isn’t on Twitter, only Instagram, and only for promo—she finds feedback cycles addictive and poisonous.
• Binary Reality: Pete describes how the internet traumatizes our brains into “Velcro for negative” feedback, and both discuss the self-destructive pull of reading criticism.

“It’s as close as I can come to understanding...cutting...it is self...yeah, you’re hurting yourself.” — Abbi Jacobson ([24:02])

4. Making TV: Process, Craft, and Aesthetics ([25:07]–[31:57])

• Intentional Filmmaking: Comparing the improv/lo-fi energy of Broad City and Crashing to the careful, storyboarded look of A League of Their Own.
• Coverage and Comedy: Abbi notes that the single-camera, non-cross coverage style limited comedy but enhanced drama and visuals.

“I felt like it limited the comedy for me, but enhanced everything else.” — Abbi Jacobson ([29:09])

• Writing in a Pre-tech Era: The constraints of 1940s letters as a storytelling tool—how lack of immediate tech communication raises emotional stakes.

5. Social Media, Community, and Modern Disconnection ([32:33]–[36:46])

• Phone Sabbaths: Pete advocates for “phone sabbath” to experience pre-internet connectedness, the need for low-stimulus, high-necessity asking from others.
• A Richer Day: They note how life feels deeper and slower without constant phone use.

6. Creativity Fuel: Coffee, Anxiety, & Magic Mind ([36:47]–[39:10])

• Caffeine and Productivity: Abbi shares her (significant) coffee habit and anxiety management.
• Productivity Drinks: Pete introduces Abbi to Magic Mind live, discussing adaptogens and nootropics.

7. Self-Care, Travel, and Recovery ([44:55]–[54:36])

• Self-Care Routines: Abbi discusses how her habits collapse outside routine, but how her recent two-week Italian/Spanish vacation (with minimal phone) provided her best self-care in years.

8. Family, Divorce, and Creative Roots ([54:36]–[66:13])

• Parental Influence: Both Abbi’s parents are artists; their divorce led to a unique double-home dynamic and a lingering preference for chaos or “un-settled” routines.
• Childhood Observations: Abbi remarks how familial unpredictability tuned her for creative, sensitive work (mimicry, observant humor, affinity for art).

“My life now can be directly pinned to that. I like split my time between New York and LA...I thrive in chaos.” — Abbi Jacobson ([59:20])

9. The Comedy Hustle: UCB, Improv, and Broad City ([71:29]–[105:17])

• Early Comedy Days: Abbi found classical acting school stifling, discovering her voice in UCB's improv where she met Alana Glazer.
• Practice, Rejection, DIY: Rejected by mainstream improv teams, Abbi and Alana started Broad City for autonomy and inclusion—relying on their network and hustling for every ounce of production value.
• Gatekeepers: They discuss the value and curse of comedy “gatekeeping”—inspiring some to make their own “gate.”

“If you don’t like the gatekeepers, build your own gate.” — Pete Holmes ([105:17])

10. Identity, Queerness, and Community ([125:26]–[133:09])

• Uniform Moments: Abbi describes the emotional impact of donning the Peaches uniform (“felt bizarre... made it feel very real”).
• Queer Storytelling: Her coming out occurred in her 30s, and she channels this in her work (Broad City, A League of Their Own)—valuing narratives about outsiders forming authentic community.
• Historical Accuracy: The all-women’s league was indeed very queer and racially diverse (facts the new show foregrounds).

11. Spirituality, Nature, and Connectivity ([114:06]–[124:52])

• Spiritual Ambivalence: Abbi identifies as culturally Jewish, but not religious—finding her deepest connection to “origin” or the divine in nature and synchronicity.
• Synchronicity: Mutual stories of meaningful “coincidences” and feeling most spiritually aligned in nature.

“Nature is beautiful and asks nothing from you.” — Pete Holmes ([119:49])

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MEMORABLE MOMENTS & NOTABLE QUOTES

• On Reboots:
  “You’re rebooting a memory.” — Pete Holmes ([17:01])

• On Social Media:
  “I feel like it is self...Yeah, you’re hurting yourself.” — Abbi Jacobson ([24:03])

• On TV Craft:
  “I felt like it limited the comedy for me, but enhanced everything else.” — Abbi Jacobson ([29:09])

• On Queer Identity:
  “I think that any story that's about a group of people that are like outsiders and they find each other...is very queer.” — Abbi Jacobson ([129:32])

• On Childhood/Divorce Influence:
  “I thrive in chaos.” — Abbi Jacobson ([59:20])

• On Gatekeepers:
  “If you don’t like the gatekeepers, build your own gate.” — Pete Holmes ([105:17])

• On Spirituality in Nature:
  “Nature is beautiful and asks nothing from you.” — Pete Holmes ([119:49])

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• 08:23 – Podcast “sleepover” energy, parenting philosophy, and instincts
• 15:59 – Reboot vs. reimagining, stakes of redoing beloved works
• 20:19 – Internet outrage culture and social media addiction
• 29:09 – TV making: constraints, process, visual choices
• 31:00 – Writing challenges in period drama; the importance of letters
• 36:47 – Reflection on phone-sabbaths and richer days
• 39:10 – Magic Mind productivity and coffee talk
• 44:55 – Abbi on self-care, travel to Spain/Italy
• 54:36 – Artist parents, growing up amidst divorce and its impact
• 71:29 – Quitting acting conservatory, finding UCB, meeting Alana Glazer
• 83:46 – Not "fitting in" at the UCB house teams, genesis of Broad City
• 101:16 – Navigating success, survivor’s guilt, including community in later work
• 125:26 – Wearing the Peaches uniform for A League of Their Own
• 127:20 – Coming out, queer identity, authentic stories
• 114:06 – Religion, meaning, spirituality: nature and synchronicity

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FINAL SEGMENTS

• Abbi’s Funniest Memory ([133:58]):
  High school, running away from a haunted trail volunteering gig, tripping face-first in the parking lot with friends—laughing hysterically at the absurdity and injury.

• Engagement & Weddings ([109:04]–[112:49]):
  Abbi shares, in brief, her recent engagement and her approach to savoring the period of being engaged without rushing into stressful wedding planning.

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TONE & ATMOSPHERE

The conversation is playful, intimate, and often deeply candid—balancing Pete's boisterous warmth with Abbi's thoughtful, sometimes self-effacing observations. It's peppered with callbacks, wordplay, and a recurring appreciation of both the absurd and the profound.

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CLOSING

The show wraps with signature warmth and wit. Abbi delivers the catchphrase “keep it crispy!” and Pete thanks her for a spirited, thought-provoking conversation.

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Recommended for listeners eager for behind-the-scenes comedy stories, reflections on creativity and self-acceptance, and anyone curious about the personal journeys of artists who build their own gates.

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Abby Jacobson. I still. We recorded it today. I still kind of can't believe she came on. She's one of those people that. The few times I've seen her out and about, I get starstruck. I get nervous. But. But she was so, so delightful. This is always a treat when we reach that frequency of kind of like a sleepover or a friend hang, Instant friends kind of vibe. I'm gonna say it. Instant friends kind of vibe. Really enjoyed our chat. So awesome. Definitely check out A League of Their Own, which is on Amazon prime right now. Val and I are currently watching it. It is, as Abby says, a re imagining it's not a reboot or a remake. It's a reimagining. And it's incredible. And she's incredible in it. So definitely check that out. Couple things for me to plug as well. I have my Largo show here in LA. Go to largo-la.com for tickets to that. Always awesome. October 9th and November 3rd are the next two. Hope to see you out there. They've been so awesome. Neil Brennan did the last one. We've had Sarah Silverman. I can't say who, but we're definitely gonna have a very big guest in October. Pretty excited about that. On October 9th, largo-la.com for tickets. And I'm going on tour. It's the Pete Holmes Where Were We Tour. Boom. Art by Katie Fishel. I sounded like David Brent on the Office. Art by Katie Fishel. Not bad. I'm going to be in Toronto, Atlantic City, New Jersey, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Washington, D.C. we may be adding some more dates right now. The tickets on PeteHomes.com are Toronto, Atlantic City and Boston, because those are ones that are on sale, but as they become available, we'll be. We'll be adding them. So Chicago, Hope to see you out. That's gonna be at the Den. That's a full weekend, so I'll be there all weekend. Hope to see a lot of weirdos out there. It's gonna be truly, truly great. Truly, truly great. Couple things to plug if you like this show. The best thing to do, we don't have a Patreon or anything like that. Just try a pizza pick. Just try some of the products that I love and swear by, like Magic Mind. It's funny. Abby actually Drinks a Magic Mind in this episode, which was not planned. Here they are sponsor, but here she drinks one on the air. Loved it. Because I love it. I absolutely am so into Magic Mind. It's not an energy drink. I don't mess with energy drinks. I don't do great with high levels of caffeine. Magic Mind only has about 35 milligrams of caffeine in it. It's like having a green tea or something like that. Pretty mild on the caffeine level. Has adaptogens which are naturally occurring compounds that help round out the edges of stress. So this is something you take with your coffee. If you're drinking coffee in the morning, it's gonna round out and soak, smooth out that that jolt you get from caffeine and make it more productive, more sustainable. Dialed in. This isn't something that gets you jacked up. It makes you dialed in. It's a little shot. Like I say this in the episode. I always feel like the witcher when I'm drinking a little elixir. Because that's what it is. It's a magical elixir that makes you focus better on your work, be more creative and drink less coffee. Which is great for a lot of reasons. Your sleep, your health. Well, lots of stuff. I'm just going to say generally your health. It's got a mix of 12 functional ingredients including matcha, nootropics that help you focus and adaptogens that help you fight off stress. Can be taken for a daily. I take it sometimes twice daily. To be honest. For a sharper mind, steady energy, immune support and less stress. You get 30% more done. On average five to seven hours of 30% more productivity after drinking. And I can attest to that. I sometimes have it around 10am it's still in my system several hours later. And it's not a jacked up feeling. It's just a you brain has what it needs. Energy wise, focus wise. It's truly incredible. It's changed my life. Magic Mind is the daily morning drink for creators, entrepreneurs and freelancers. Athletes have Gatorade now creators have creator aid. Don't expect wired. Expect dialed in. Helps fight off procrastination, brain fog, fatigue and some ADD symptoms. Getting you into that sweet, sweet flow state after three to seven days of continuous use gets easier to get into that flow state easier. The more you use it, the better it works. It is a creator's best friend. You will fall in love with this as I have, I promise. It is incredible and I actually have A special offer for listeners for weirdos from our friends at Magic Mind. All you have to do is go to www.magicmind.co weird and use our discount code at checkout Weird to get a limited 20% off your first order. That's MagicMind Co weird. Use promo code weird to get a limited 20 off your first order. And try the world's first productivity drink. Honestly, a super secret weapon in my creative life. Speaking of secret weapons, this is this right here that you're seeing me wear. If you're watching the video version, this is my Apollo Neuro. If you guys listen to the show, you guys know I swear by this. Val swears by this. And there's no product. Maybe Magic Mind, it's tied for first that I tell people about just in regular life. They see it, I tell them about it. Deliver delivers gentle, almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system. Because that is the language that your nervous system speaks. Touch. This is basically like a wearable hug that helps you fight stress and recover from stress. Can help you relax, focus and be more productive. A wearable hug for your nervous system. Using touch therapy to help you feel safe and in control. I actually left the house. This was two mornings ago. Got quite a ways from the house, realized I forgot my Apollo, turned around and came back and got it. That's how important it is. And last night I did sets stand up. And as I was falling asleep, it was hard for me to fall asleep. I realized I didn't. My Apollo had run out of battery. I charged it, wait 10 minutes, put it back on. That's how much I rely on it to lull me into sleep. If all it did was help me fall asleep, I would still be singing its praises. But it also helps me wake up. It helps me ease into social situations that would have otherwise made me anxious. Helps me be clear and focused when I'm working. Helps me recover from a workout or from a stressful conversation with my parents. Helps me meditate. There's a meditation and mindfulness setting. Sometimes I use it when I'm not meditating just to kind of feel a little bit more Zen. But when I use it when I'm meditating, I go so much deeper, so much more easily. And at night I put it on, relax and unwind. When we're watching tv, before I know it, I'm starting to nod off, get in bed, put it on, sleep and renew. And if I get up in the middle of the night, hit these two buttons, reruns the program and Helps lull me back to sleep. It is actually training your nervous system to cope with stress better over time. The more you use it, the better it works. And it's not, I always say this. It's not woo woo. They don't sell these in crystal shops. This is science. It's specifically neuroscience. It was developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who have been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can try it with 10% off by going to Apollo neuro.com weird. That's a P O L L O N e u r o.com weird for 10% off and to show your support of this show. All right, everybody, enjoy Abby Jacobson. Be sure to check out A League of Their Own and hope to see you on the road. You got those dates. Go to Pete Holmes if you want to come see me. Do stand up PeteHomes.com in the meantime, enjoy Abby Jacobson. Get into it and we're started. Abby, this is a very casual show, if that's okay. I just don't want you to feel like we're bugging you. Like bugging your secret thoughts on weather.

[B]

No, no. Oh, it's because.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would love for my thoughts on the weather to not. To not be.

[A]

Could. We can edit it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is your episode and it's a safe space. You have several weeks. I was just gonna say I'm socks on though. No, no. Think of it as like a sleepover. Do you want a blanket?

[B]

No, no, I'm good.

[A]

I don't know how you are. Yeah. Yes. That's. That's it. You're the only guest. No one does that. Ryan Holiday just did it. And the whole time he was like this.

[B]

It's like a really deep. You must have to.

[A]

You have to. But it's supposed to be like a. It's not really by design, but I love sleepovers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And doesn't this feel like a sleepover?

[B]

I haven't had one in a while.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, except like with my person. I'm with.

[A]

Of course. That's the perma sleepover.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And with Val. Well, that's. That's why I didn't hug or shake or anything. You as our baby has a cold. So she was in our bed last night and I actually think that's my favorite thing in the world.

[B]

Imagine it's.

[A]

And it has to be for her. Imagine you're two number one people.

[B]

Oh, my God. Like, let me in, right?

[A]

Yeah, It's Cuddle puddle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was just reading this. It's so embarrassing when I'm reading a book and I know you're a reader. I was listening to you.

[B]

I try all the time.

[A]

Tell me.

[B]

Wait, why'd you say it's embarrassing that you're reading a book?

[A]

No, it's embarrassing that I will mention a book because I read multiple books at once.

[B]

Oh, you're, like, embarrassing I was reading a book.

[A]

No.

[B]

It'S such, like, a humble.

[A]

It is. It's a humble brag. You know, I'm a reader. But if you can manage to read. I do want to talk about that with you. But anyway, this book called Tribe, which I'm really enjoying, talks about how, like, parents and babies were primates. We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. But this whole, like, sleep training thing.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

They're like. That would have been considered child abuse for the past million years of human evolution.

[B]

Like, not to leave a baby. There's, like, nowhere to. Where would they have left the baby? It would have been, like, right there. Always. Right.

[A]

Absolutely. Which I don't even think would count because. And he is making the case. And by the way, I know this is a sensitive subject, so to those parents that are sleep training. I understand. I get it. Just kind of making this other point. He said that we hold our children skin to skin, like, 16% of the time, whereas our ancestors were, like 90, 90% of the time around there. And I'm just like, when I do does sort of feel sort of like cheaty, like I'm being too lovey to the baby, but it also feels like the best thing in the world.

[B]

See, I don't have any kids yet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I can't imagine you're being bombarded with what to do, how to do it, all the different ways.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From, like, Internet books and friends who just did it, and parents and do.

[A]

It to your face. Your parents will do it to your face.

[B]

But this sleep training, I have friends doing that too. And I, like, I. I don't know how you choose what to do.

[A]

Well, Val, that's. My wife and I are super softies, and we're just going with that instinct. So the, like, cry it out thing just wasn't on the table.

[B]

I mean, I even have a dog and I remember doing that with like a. It's not the same, but, like, a lot like a Crate training. You're like, I can't, I can't do this.

[A]

We had that with Brody. We were like, for some reason I got in my mind, because I had never had a dog before, that I was like, dogs need to sleep in crates. Otherwise, I don't know what I thought he would do, like mangle the sofa or something.

[B]

The same thing where you're like, well, he needs to know this. And then once he's trained, then you can like, let.

[A]

Exactly. Well, thank you.

[B]

Why do we.

[A]

And by the way, a lot of the same shame stuff applies. I remember I Instagrammed that we got the dog. Then like 10 days later, I was really having like a, like a panic that we had made a mistake with the dog. We did not get. We still have this dog. But I felt trapped. And obviously there's like a social element to that. It's like, you, you didn't get a rescue or are you even considering giving the dog away? I'm ashamed to admit that. So when it comes to breastfeeding, sleep training, what do you feed them? I know, it's insane.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

But you would like to, you kind of have kids? Yeah. I'm sorry, that's a personal question. But you can always, you can always just say pass.

[B]

No, no, no, no. I do, I'm kind of. Oh, not. See this other sound like I'm kind of like, I kind of got to, I kind of got to do it soon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I, I do want kids.

[A]

You. Would you carry the baby? I think, because that's the biology. The only reason I. That's your, that's your close process. And I'm going to give you a stand up tip. Ice. Ice cream cone. Ice cream cone with your microphone.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, no, no. And if there was. We just won't use that shot.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

You were saying, carrying the baby.

[B]

I think, like, we don't know exactly, but I think one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. At least one.

[A]

You would do one. Well, I would do one and you might have two. Yeah, that's a really cool.

[B]

Well, I don't know. I, I, I don't know. We like to not have.

[A]

This is not a legal document.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm just curious. That process, first of all, is a huge undertaking. Like they say, like, I'm not like a huge astrology person or anything like that, but they say it shows up on a chart like a death. And Val will say that like a huge event, like, like, like a death in that sense.

[B]

You mean, like. Wait, you mean looking at the mom's.

[A]

Chart or looking at the mom's chart.

[B]

Oh, like that.

[A]

It's like you show Abby you or Abby you or Abby, bam, you're somebody else.

[B]

Because it'll show up when someone were to look at my thing before I were to have it or.

[A]

I don't know. I don't think it works that way, but.

[B]

Okay. I didn't understand what you say.

[A]

I don't even know. I use an example that I can't even fully. What I'm saying. Let me. Let me bring it back to Earth. Val would say that it's this rite of passage.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which this culture is severely starving for. So there's something really cool. And I like Freudian pouch envy stuff. I saw what Val did giving birth to the baby, and I saw that she did something impossible and then showed up on the other side of it. So it must. She must be stronger than she thought she was. You know what I mean? Like, that's a invaluable experience.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's. Yeah. And I feel a lot of my friends, a lot of my close girlfriends have recently had kids, and I'm just sort of like, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it is huge.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

Huge. And very scary.

[A]

I was just gonna say terrifying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had a lot of moments as the. As the non. Holding the baby partner. Whereas, like. And Val knows this, so thank God. Like, I. I would have nightmares. Like Junior.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, I'd be so scared.

[B]

Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito.

[A]

Is it Danny? No, it's not Katie Putco. It's not Danny DeVito. It's. But shouldn't it be Tom Arnold? But shouldn't it be.

[B]

Wait, isn't there one where it's like, twins. That's.

[A]

Twins is in Junior as well.

[B]

They brought him back because I was like, just. That's casting. I was like, they. There should. There was one. Okay. But that's Junior, too.

[A]

Is that what they're trying to do with the Rock and Kevin Hart? I just realized. I just realized.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. That makes. I didn't think of that either.

[A]

There's nothing new.

[B]

There's nothing new.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

As someone who. Yeah. There's nothing new.

[A]

What? Truly is someone. What?

[B]

Who just, like, I just reimagined a thing. There is, like, nothing new.

[A]

We can't call it a reboot. It's not really a reboot. It is a reimagining.

[B]

I try not to, because people are, like, very upset.

[A]

Are they?

[B]

Or just, like, people get really upset when you're going to reboot their thing. So well, you're rebooting a memory.

[A]

Yes. Reimagining is great, by the way. The show's fantastic.

[B]

Thank you. I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to. That was just an organic segue. But there is nothing new.

[A]

We all saw it coming a mile away. You came in here talking about the weather and you kept being like, yeah, this weather's in a. Of its own. Lincoln. It's like, stop it. You're a media mogul and a promotion machine. She mentioned it three times.

[B]

This craftsman is in a.

[A]

You said you had to take. You said you had to take a pena. Davis. When you went to the bathroom. You said, I'm sorry. To be a real Madonna right now. This is ridiculous.

[B]

That's so good. If I was doing that.

[A]

That's really good.

[B]

That's great. I gotta like get a couple more.

[A]

No more puns. I gotta take a peanut Davis. But that is interesting. I didn't consider that. People must be a little protective because it's like a two hour childhood memory.

[B]

And it's like. It's one of my favorite movies. Is why we did it. But it is. People were. Are like, why do you need to remake? Like, why. Like, I think in general a lot of people are just like angry at remakes. Like, why can't there be anything new? What like Hollywood has no original ideas anymore.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

All that. I don't get really upset. Like, you know those. That sector of the Internet. I just have a. I don't feel that way that strongly to comment about anything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In that way. Like I kind of just don't understand. I am. I think I have anger in my life, but like, I don't feel like I need to put it on the Internet.

[A]

Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also, I'm not a huge course in. Sorry to keep mentioning astrology now or the course miracles. Do you know a course in miracles?

[B]

No.

[A]

It doesn't matter. It was a book that a woman channeled. It doesn't matter. It's interesting. A lot of people love it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love the. The practices about it. I keep looking at your toe. I don't want you to think I'm like a weirdo. Like checking out your feet. They're very colorful. Don't say it.

[B]

No, no. Like, I don't know if you ever paint your nails, but see this, my daughter, when I.

[A]

And I.

[B]

If I got a pedicure and I like immediately ruined it and then like with the. The shoe and haven't fixed it.

[A]

So shame.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Shame. As a lot of shame. And recently started getting pedicures and flippy flop season. By the way, all of our dad's feet are so disgusting. Your dad? My dad. What are these fucking feet? I was like, you need to start fixing that shit now. I'm 43. It's right around now that they're starting, but it's to turn into Star Wars.

[B]

You started going, aren't you a little bit like, wow, this is like a little ab. Life changing. Right?

[A]

It's everything. It's self care. Women have had self care cornered, not wrongly. Here, let me say, let's put a pin in self care just for fun.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I was gonna say in A Course in Miracles.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I wanna see your course in miracles.

[A]

Yeah. I love this teaching. It goes, you're not angry for the reason you think you are is one of the, like, things you're supposed to.

[B]

Yeah, it's not about.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

This is not about this.

[A]

And they actually, because it's a spiritual thing, they go down. They go. You're angry because you think you live in a meaningless universe. That's so. It just goes like, stop. It's not A League of Their Own.

[B]

No, I'm like, you're not really, are you? Like, this is not about us redoing this movie.

[A]

It's absolutely not.

[B]

No.

[A]

And then the third one again, and then we're gonna go back to self care. I'm more excited about that. But the third one is God did not create a meaningless universe. I know that uses religious language, but it's like this.

[B]

Like, whatever you believe.

[A]

Yes, yes. You could say the universe is not meaningless. Meaningless. Yeah. Even if you don't believe that, it's helpful to say it and lean towards looking for the evidence that it's not meaning. Yes. You know what I'm saying? We'll get to that later. Unless you had something.

[B]

No.

[A]

I just wanted to really work A Course in Miracles into the subreddit about people who hate. A League of Their Own is such.

[B]

Like a. I have a hard time with the Internet, I think, because it makes me feel terrible if I ever, like, just dive right below the surface of. Of anything like that. I'm like, wow, I can't handle this.

[A]

Well, what's your relationship with it like with social media and all that?

[B]

Not on good for you Twitter.

[A]

Okay. No, I'm not on, hey, good for you, Twitter.

[B]

I'm just on Instagram.

[A]

Okay. Yes.

[B]

That's so like. That's like the last.

[A]

The last one.

[B]

And I'm really. I really wasn't on it very much at all until the show came back. And then I, I just feel this, like, I feel like it's part of the press.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like it's part of Mark. Like I, I feel a responsibility like I have to sort of market it to whatever people would have watched the Broad City would like. I just feel like a very. Yeah, it's part of the game now.

[A]

No, you, you wrote a wonderful book. When I was doing my book, I was and my book is all about like, not really, but it's kind of hinting that social media and stuff is bad. And yet I'm on social media being like, hey, you gotta check out this book. You have to.

[B]

Exactly. Me too. I feel like I'm like, what are we? I think there's a part in the book where I'm talk about this because we all feel that. But it's vicious. Like you need it, it's there. It's part of the marketing stuff.

[A]

Well, it's like McDonald's or pick a fast food chain that might not be good for you. You need food so they have the like hook. You need connection.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not just promotion, but you kind of like talk about a million years of human biology. We need to check in with the community, with the tribe, see where we are. I don't mean to say especially women, but women tend to lean communal than men. So we're having like that, this yanking us towards it. But this is, look, this is too heavy handed. But like I was just talking to Mike Birbiglia yesterday. I was telling him I have this bit about social media and how I think it's funny that everybody thinks that if you were in One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, you would be the person that wouldn't take the pills.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because they make everyone crazy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you throw them over your head or you. Yeah, poor Katie's heard me say this a million times. Or you put them under your tongue or whatever. But here's the rub. Some of those pills are Xanax. You know, that's what I mean. Like some of the pills are promoting your book. Like some of them are knowing your friends had a baby.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So there's some. I'm using Xanax as meaning you'll like it. And then there's the crazy making ones as well.

[B]

The good pills.

[A]

Xanax. Xanax.com. weird for 10% added to your bill at the end of the program, but it still supports the show. Please do it. I'm just kidding. But like what's interesting about that is I'm trying to say, like, social media, it's the pills that makes everyone crazy because it reduces reality into a binary. It's either good or bad. Either, Abby, look, you look hot. Or it's like, what a piece of shit.

[B]

Like, go like, yeah, go yourself. Go fuck yourself.

[A]

Nobody. Nobody is gonna.

[B]

You're on, like, a wild ride.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And don't get me started on how the human brain is preconditioned to hold on to negative things ten times more than. Than positive.

[B]

This is like. I like the good. I don't process a good thing, but I will take, like, the one. Of course it's terrible.

[A]

It's a drug.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a. It's.

[B]

I feel like I'm looking for it.

[A]

You are.

[B]

I am.

[A]

I just. I'm only saying that because I am.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, it's whenever I engage or when I mean engagement, whenever I actually look at the feedback, it is to find a bad one. Yep. Or the bad ones.

[A]

It's as close as I can come to understanding. And I don't think cutting is, like, the weirdest thing in the world.

[B]

I said this too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Where I'm like. I feel like it is self. Yeah. You're hurting yourself.

[A]

It's something in your mouth that won't heal. Cause you keep tonguing it. To quote Fight Club, you won't Fight Club. Hi, I'm 1999. But like, you or like something on your body you just won't let heal. I can relate way more to that. Val's always like, will you stop?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's because you want. You want that rush, that feeling of indignation or self righteousness. You want to be like, you make a TV show, do you not? You know, like all that sort of stuff. But. And everybody that listens to this show has heard this before. But think of how I feel. I've said it so many times, but it's Velcro. Teflon is the theory. Velcro is. If I say. I don't even want to say a fake negative thing, but if I say something negative, it Velcros to you. But if I say, which I did, not only is A League of Their Own incredible. And I envy those, like, sculpted shows because the show I made Crashing was great, obviously. But when I watch it, I'm not like, it wasn't Wes Anderson. It was. It was improvised. And it was more like.

[B]

Yeah, more like Brad City, where you're like, you love. I feel this. Yeah.

[A]

Yes, but then. But then I watch League of Their Own. You must have had the same feeling. And you're like, I'm finally in something that's like, we know how we're gonna shoot this. It's a special shot. It's slow motion. I know you were there. I'll tell you what it feels like as a viewer crashing. You cut to the. Why?

[B]

It's just a different process. It's like going on stage and doing. It's not this. Because crashing is not fully improvised. Bronze is not fully improvised. But it's like, you go on stage and you're like, here we go. Let's use whatever happens and the energy versus going on stage and doing a. A scene.

[A]

A bonsai tree.

[B]

Yes. Like a dramatic. Like, not that leaks dramatic, but it's like a planned, like, scene. Like. And both can go, but. Yeah, very different.

[A]

But even the way it's shot, there's a lot of deliberate and beautiful. Val was like, is this shot on film? And I was like, no way.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, there's no way. But it looks that good. It doesn't have that, like, digital piece of shit. So many digital things look terrible. But, like, it looks beautiful. It has, like, slow motion stuff. It has, like, I don't know, like, the scenes. There's a lot of scenes where, like, they let the X factor play out. Like, there's some sort of quirky performance, and it plays out in one meaning you're not building it by cutting between crashing. What I was gonna say was, like, sometimes would cut across the street because it was the only coverage we had that riff in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it'd be a scene like this, and then for some reason, it's over the freeway, and it's me being like, talk about the flash. And then it comes back in. A League of Their Own has more of a. And I'm not putting my show down. Or Broad City shows that are building it like that. But A League of Their Own has that, like. It feels storyboarded, like someone new. Like, I keep thinking of that scene where you're running out on the field and how joyful that is and how cool that is. Or even the opening where you're chasing the train. Very deliberate.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Was that harder to do, or did you like the constraints? It must have been driving like one of those old Model Ts at Disneyland where there's the track and you can't really move.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there are so many different kinds of constraints. Cause, like, I did feel similar things on Broad City. That you probably had on Crashing two where you're like. We had like crazy oners that like, you had to be like. We were very intentional with the way that we made that show too. This was just like so much bigger in terms of like, budget and scope. And it's an hour and it's period. And I think, like, visually, all. Everything already puts us in like a more filmic environment. So costumes. But the Model T, like all the cars and everything is like. You're like, where the fuck are. Like.

[A]

Must have been tripping.

[B]

Not in my usual space right now and. But the limitations of like, we still just had. It was coverage wise. It was like we. We hardly ever did cross coverage. And like, so it was so much more intentional and limited in terms of. I'm trying to think, like, there wasn't as. Yeah. There wasn't as much freedom because we needed to get certain coverage in a way. I don't know if I may. If I'm articulating.

[A]

Oh, I'm understanding you. Perfect. That's exactly what I was asking is like, you're cross coverage. For those who don't know is you're shooting it two ways and that, you know, this way and that way at the same time.

[B]

Which lends it to. Which is what we're kind of comedic scene.

[A]

Exactly. Because what we're doing right now.

[B]

Yes. Because if we're gonna riff, you have both.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Whereas if you're in league and Darcy and I are in a scene, it's not done. Cross. Cross. So you're. It's really hard to like, re. Riff.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You know, forget it. Get it again.

[A]

Even if someone wrote it down so.

[B]

Right. So you. We might have had it in a two shot. And so you're always like. I felt like it limited the comedy for me, but enhanced everything else. So you do have these like more grand, sweeping things that I think make it maybe feel like it's shot on film or something. But I don't know. I'm like, this is a. I'm rambling now. But yeah, very different.

[A]

You're answering my question perfectly.

[B]

Very different. And in terms of like arcing a season like Broad City, we didn't. Story wise, didn't start really arcing the characters emotionally until like the fourth and fifth seasons.

[A]

And.

[B]

And this is like fully arced and. And built to be twists and turns and this and that. Like Red City is like a day. Every episode is a day. You can watch them out of order kind of. And this should not Be watched out of order. It's very crafted in that way.

[A]

I. The letter. I don't want to spoil it, but the letter. It's a letter. It's in your notebook, but it's a letter that you're writing to your husband.

[B]

Husband.

[A]

Husband. Yeah. I'm, like, concerned for your character. It's a boyfriend, right? It's a boyfriend. No, it's a husband. That's.

[B]

Got it. You got it.

[A]

I was like. I envied the drama of that. I was like, how simple. I feel like shows these days have to, like, hook you real quick, but they. I don't want to feel like I'm being hooked real quick. There are certain shows where I'm like, this is just a pot boiler. They're just going like. But I don't even want to name the show I'm thinking about. But, like, they just know the devices that will make you want to see.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Who shot the arrow. Like, just, like, human. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, this show puts stuff in play that you want to see how it works out without me feeling like this is just to get me to watch the next one.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's also so interesting to talk about a letter. Like, I'm. I think you too, like. Like, I'm used to writing right now, so the limitations of story right now. So much of a drama and conflict in our present day, unfortunately, involves. Is lost because we have a cell phone.

[A]

Oh, my God, forget it.

[B]

It's like, you can't.

[A]

You just.

[B]

No one's late. No one's. Like, you can't. Like, everything that you can. Can happen is like. Well, they would be able to text them or anything.

[A]

The directions.

[B]

And so with that, it's like this letter.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So important because it's like, it's not. I'm not spoiling anything. In the pilot. I write this letter, and it's sort of, like, very important, whatever's in the letter and all this, but you can't. A letter now is so. It's just an interesting thing to. Someone doesn't show up in 1943 is like, they're gone. Yeah, they're gone. Yeah.

[A]

Like, where are they? They skadoodled. That's why they had so many ways to say, yeah, she hit the. She hit the bricks. Like, because everybody was always Dissipated. Disappearing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's on the lamb.

[B]

Yeah. And also, like, not a. It is a big deal. And not because, like, people must have not shown up all the time, and you had to not think it was that's right now. If someone doesn't show up and they don't pick up, it's something's. They're gone.

[A]

They're dead.

[B]

They're fully dead.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Like, let's call whoever has their phone.

[B]

15 minutes and doesn't answer once. I'm like, we need to call. We need to call someone. And there's something to be.

[A]

Yeah, but you're bringing me back. I was just talking to Birbiglia again, same phone call. This was last night. And I was like, on Saturday, I try and do like. Like a phone Sabbath. I'm not Jewish, but no phone.

[B]

But it's a good.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

It's a great rule. I don't do it. And I am Jewish.

[A]

I'm Jewish. Shaming you. Yeah. So feel like.

[B]

I know I should.

[A]

You could do that.

[B]

I know.

[A]

No, it's not. It's. It's really not for everybody. Meaning There are times in my life that it wasn't for me, but now it's for me. I feel like I can do it and I do it. And Mikey was like, I should do that, too. He said that he went to the Comedy Cellar last night, but he forgot his phone, and he needed to ask someone to call an Uber for him. And he asked his friend. They did it happily. But that need that was created. I said to him, what did I say? I said, remembering my own life, like I'm Hemingway. What did I say to him? I said, yeah, well, I said, it went from a problem that you would have just solved with, let's be honest, a piece of technology that does not love you. Pretty simple. But, like, really consider that it doesn't give a shit about you. Food cooked by people who don't give a shit about you, delivered by people who don't give a shit about you on a phone that doesn't give a shit about you. Doesn't need to, but it's kind of worth noting.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now has been turned into a friend. It became something that. And he agreed. I was like, you might remember that on your deathbed. It's so small, but you go like, remember that time that Abby called me in Uber? Or she took care of me, and it was created by not having your phone. And we had so much more of that need in. In the 90s. And certainly. What year is League of Their Own?

[B]

43.

[A]

43. Good year.

[B]

Good year.

[A]

And I know nothing about that year.

[B]

I know kind of a lot, but don't test me now.

[A]

Oh, I will not I will. Absolutely not. So you're absolutely right. The letter. And when you mail the letter, this is what that brought to mind. How many breakups or, like, decisions that you didn't even mean were you forced to stick to because of the heat of the moment? Like, that letter these days, you might just be a text and maybe you just send it and now you have to commit to it. But you really had to, like, think about it and stuff. I know I'm talking a lot, but, like, I really feel like so would have.

[B]

It lasts like, at least a week.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, it's not so immediate. Things are not as immediate because at least anyone that wasn't living in the same spot. Like communication.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was very different.

[A]

It was brought by pony.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then their response, you kind of knew you were getting, like, a thoughtful response, unless the handwriting was insane.

[B]

And there was tell. There was telephones as well, but telephones for sure.

[A]

But who had time?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But it is just. This is. It's just different.

[A]

It is.

[B]

But also I can, like, we can remember not no cell phones, which was like, if someone didn't pick up a landline.

[A]

No big deal.

[B]

No big deal. But also I remember my mom, like, not being able to find me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And truly, I will never forget. I was at a baseball. Hilarious.

[A]

There it is. All right, we get it. A League of Their Own now streaming on Amazon prime included with prime membership.

[B]

It was one of those things where she was like, I pictured you on the. On the back of a milk carton.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we're like, now. It's like you have a phone. You have a phone attached to you.

[A]

You're right. Look, this is what I was gonna say about phone Sabbath is. It is like being in the 90s for one day. And what you notice is a day is a lot richer than you remember. Like, if you're not con. And let's be honest, sometimes it's great you're being. It's like a layer of frosting. You're it. It keeps you from feeling unpleasant things, but also might be keeping you from feeling some pleasant things. But like, on those Saturdays, I'm really shocked at how kind of crazy your inner life can be. Not bad crazy because it's slow. This is misleading.

[B]

It's more like this life can be so much slower.

[A]

Slow.

[B]

The phones make us. Everything go fast because you're wasting time.

[A]

And then bring in coffee, which I'm drinking just a little bit of you.

[B]

Oh, you're drinking. I thought that was a seltzer in a Cold brew.

[A]

I'm drinking a cold.

[B]

You know, I don't know if you can tell. I am. I'm. I've only had one coffee.

[A]

Do you need.

[B]

I should have had a second coffee. No, I think I'm doing okay.

[A]

Do you want to drink A Magic Mind is my favorite thing.

[B]

A what?

[A]

It's a magic. It's 35 milligrams of caffeine. So it's like drinking, like a green tea matcha, but also has nootropics and adaptogens. So do you know what adaptogens are?

[B]

A little bit.

[A]

They round out stress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They help you cope with stress and nootropics. Help you think if I give it to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're a writer, you're going to.

[B]

You're going to get on. Do you. Are you sponsored? You're sponsoring them?

[A]

Yeah, but I love them. Before they were sponsoring the show. Would you grab one, Katie? Sorry.

[B]

I.

[A]

Truly, as a writer, you're gonna love.

[B]

I. I drink matcha.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Oh, they're like little guys.

[A]

Oh, yeah. A little elixir from the show. The Witcher. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. You're gonna love. I. I know this seems like an ad. This is just real. This is just me saying, like, this is gonna make you. You're gonna love it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It also works with your coffee.

[B]

I have one, and I usually have two. I usually have three a day. How many do you have?

[A]

I'll have this much of this, and then I'm done.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm an anxious person, so if I have too much.

[B]

Okay. This is good.

[A]

It's. Oh. Okay. I was ready for you to be like, yeah. They put honey and stevia in it, and I think they're. My friend James Bashara invented it. You should just shoot it.

[B]

I should. Okay. Maybe that is because I'm sipping it.

[A]

Yeah. It's definitely a shoot. But it's also. Can I use the phrase ladylike? Or. I'll just say it's very dainty. You're just taking a little.

[B]

It's not one of those where it's, like, uncomfortable to sip.

[A]

I think they were afraid, as most people who sell matcha are, that it tastes like. Like mown grass. But this is. This is totally workable to get that good stuff. You're really a magmind pro, I'm gonna say.

[B]

But wait, I feel like I cut you off. We are going to. Which I tend to do.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

It is okay. I kind of want to go back to your coffee thing? You can drink that much coffee without spat. And you should.

[B]

But you know what? I have.

[A]

Don't say spazzing. It's offensive.

[B]

I have major. Not major. I do have anxiety. So maybe it's bad that I drink so much coffee, but I'll have one in the morning and then maybe a second in the morning and then I'll have one at like 2:33.

[A]

Are we looking at like a 16 ounce, like, iced coffee?

[B]

No, we're talking like coffee at home. Like a Chemex cup of coffee.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then maybe another one of those. And then I'll. Maybe I'll do a nice coffee later.

[A]

At what time is that?

[B]

2:30 or 3.

[A]

Okay. That's not terrible.

[B]

This is also when I'm mostly in a writer's room.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Where I'm like, I need it so bad. Especially a zoom room.

[A]

I can't even throw me out the window. Like, what season of. It was Broad City where you're like, that's me in a zoom writer's room where you're like, hanging on the building.

[B]

We wouldn't. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was like, we would never.

[A]

The poster.

[B]

Well, we were mimicking, like, the rock hanging off.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What was bringing it back to the rock where he's like, hanging out of the helicopter. Yeah, yeah. Or Kevin Hart hanging off his foot.

[A]

Right on one shoelace.

[B]

That's it. That's it.

[A]

I got it. I'm fully supported.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Oh, poor Kevin. So talented.

[B]

Keep your shoe on. Keep your shoe on. Just don't remove your shoe.

[A]

He's so talented and all we talk about is how short he is. What a shame. I mean, us as a collective.

[B]

I do really. I do really like Kevin Hart.

[A]

Is he great? Have you ever.

[B]

No, never. I do really like Kevin Hart. Oh, no, maybe I shouldn't say this.

[A]

I love it. Edit it out if you don't like it.

[B]

You know what? And maybe just fact check it. I really actually love Kevin Hart. I love Alana. And I wrote a movie for him once that he didn't want to do. We wrote it, but.

[A]

What?

[B]

We thought it was great. No, no.

[A]

Kevin Hart said no to something. I left Val a voicemail and Kevin Hart was in it. Hot riff. Hot riff. I'm gonna give myself the hot riff award. He said no.

[B]

Well, like, it just wasn't the right movie.

[A]

Well, probably because he was doing nine.

[B]

Yeah. Like, he's like a huge movie star. No, actually, we wrote this movie, which I think Is brilliant.

[A]

Tell me.

[B]

It was. And it is a reboot. It was. You remember the film the Bodyguard?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Whitney Houston, Kevin Costner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We wrote a new version of the Bodyguard with. I think this is so funny. Kevin Hart, Melissa McCarthy.

[A]

And Melissa McCarthy's the Bodyguard, isn't she?

[B]

This is funny, right?

[A]

It's great.

[B]

Kevin Hart is a rapper and needs a bodyguard. But doesn't. They don't want the Bodyguard to look like a bodyguard.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And so she was sort of like this, like, X.

[A]

Like, what if you pitch Melissa McCarthy and she's like. What do you mean? What do you mean? I don't look like a bodyguard?

[B]

Oh, I thought you meant. What do you mean? Like, I've never heard of this movie. And I was like, she might have never heard it. Might never got.

[A]

No, it got to her.

[B]

I know. I'm like. I'm pretty sure it got to them.

[A]

What you were saying, though. Melissa McCarthy isn't gonna look like a bodyguard. So she can be close to him without him.

[B]

Without, like, she would be the unlikely person nearby. And the. The poster is obviously her carrying Kevin Hart out of, like, Kevin Costner caring.

[A]

And she's kind of like, we're back to co sleeping. That is like a. That's a baby. And when I hold my baby, I.

[B]

Thought she would be so fun.

[A]

Like, are you fucking crazy? Yes, I know. I hate. I hate when ideas die. I can't handle it.

[B]

But also, I've never liked. I've never talked about it. It's kind of fun to talk about it. And it's like, that would have been a fun movie.

[A]

It would have been great.

[B]

Anyway. The one thing I don't love that I might have heard wrong and maybe someone will come at me about it.

[A]

Probably on the league subreddit.

[B]

I really don't ever want to go and look at. I feel like I heard that he didn't feel comfortable playing gay.

[A]

Oh. In. Not in the Bodyguard, but in some.

[B]

In anything. Which I feel. I feel just overall like an actor isn't really a lot of things that they play.

[A]

Right. I wonder.

[B]

You know, that's always just like a. Interesting thing to know about someone that they. Yeah.

[A]

Remember Will Smith? Pre Slap. Pre Slap. Smell. Pre Slap. Smith.

[B]

Did he say. Is this him too?

[A]

Pre Slap Smith was in Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. I'm just kidding. It's called Six Degrees of Separation.

[B]

Yeah. It was a great film.

[A]

And he said pre slap. I have to keep saying pre slap. Not that we have to disown somebody for Making a mistake. I'm just making. But he. He said that one of the greatest regrets of his career was doing the kiss. There was a gay. A homosexual kiss. It sounds the words to say homosexual. It was a man. Man kiss with Will and he had it shot from behind. So I think he didn't actually do the smoochie smooch.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And he later said that was one of the greatest regrets.

[B]

He didn't do it because it was.

[A]

Like his artistic career. He was like, what am I? What was I? But he was on. You know, he wasn't there yet. Maybe Kevin's in a similar.

[B]

Yeah. Because I really, really. I do really like him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's the one thing that kind of threw me.

[A]

It does. Are you looking it up? You don't have to. What do you type in Kevin Hart? Gay.

[B]

No. But I also, you know, I might. I'm not really up to date on all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I understand. It doesn't feel. This doesn't feel like shots fired.

[B]

No, no. I just. I do really, like. I think he seems like he's super talented.

[A]

He sure is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's just pitch him. A lot of gay movies is. I'm saying, like, only.

[B]

The Bodyguard was extraordinary. It actually wasn't.

[A]

But Although I just light up. That's if it was two dudes they found kind of. Kind of a good idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Where were we? Oh, self care is one of the.

[B]

Self care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you a good self care person?

[B]

Not right now.

[A]

What are you doing? Right. Are you doing. What's going on?

[B]

I need to get. I'm not. I'm really good at self care when I'm in a routine.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And right now my life is all. I feel like. I just. I just. Like the show just came out and then I went on. I did. I went on vacation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which I haven't done in so long.

[A]

Let me guess where you went. You're gonna guess it because you went to Maui.

[B]

No.

[A]

Is it because you went to Maui?

[B]

I didn't go to Maui.

[A]

Where did you go?

[B]

I went to Italy.

[A]

I was gonna say you feel Spain to me. I was closer. And Spain.

[B]

I went to Mallorca.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was it.

[B]

It was incredible.

[A]

I believe it. I've never been to Spain.

[B]

You should. You should go.

[A]

I believe it.

[B]

It's really good.

[A]

Towards the top of my list.

[B]

I'd never been to Italy. I'd been to Spain, but very different. I've been to Barcelona, but I'd never been. I mean, Italy is What they say? Yeah, it's great. No, it's fully great. It looks like everything about it.

[A]

Where. Where were you?

[B]

I was on the coast, on the west coast.

[A]

Santa Monica.

[B]

Yeah. Great Italian restaurant, Santa Monica.

[A]

Buca di Beppo. There's a great buca di Beppo in Santa.

[B]

Family style. Yeah.

[A]

Family style. Or just me, really hungry. Either way, I'll eat seven chicken cutlets. I don't care. You're in the west side.

[B]

I would be like. If you're. I didn't go to Tuscany, but it's like Tuscany and like. Like the coast.

[A]

How was the driving? Did you take, like, a car from the airport to where was it? Nuts. That's all I remember.

[B]

We took a car one way and it was like an hour from the airport, which was fine. And then we took a train the other way, which was nice.

[A]

But you didn't notice that the driving was, say, different from the western style?

[B]

No. Did you?

[A]

Yeah. Last time I went to Italy. Sorry, privilege check. But last time I was in Italy, Val and I got in the cab, or I actually think it was a car. Like a. Like, you know, somebody was hired. Meaning not just a yellow cab off the street.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was looking at his phone and driving, like, the whole way. And we were just like. It's like when you're not sure if it's cultural and it doesn't feel appropriate because everyone was doing it. It was sort of like a guy.

[B]

Was like in the lane. It was almost like he was driving where, like, the lines were supposed to be in the middle of the car.

[A]

Yeah. Like when you're. When I was a kid, I thought you made the lines go underneath the car.

[B]

I do remember that.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And did you relax?

[B]

I did.

[A]

You were able.

[B]

I read a whole book.

[A]

You read a whole book?

[B]

I just have. I had been on such a not relaxing mode. Like, this show took season one took like. I mean, we've been writing it since 2018.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And production was like two and a half years.

[A]

This shows. Sorry.

[B]

So I was like, I need. When this. When I. When it comes out, I'm leaving.

[A]

Yeah. I'm getting out of here.

[B]

Getting out of here.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I wasn't. As you were talking about before, I really wasn't on my phone that much.

[A]

Tuscany style for two weeks.

[B]

I read. I read like, a book.

[A]

What book did you read? Please be tribe.

[B]

I read.

[A]

We would have so much to talk about.

[B]

Interesting. Like, dark book. My year of rest.

[A]

What if you were like the Bible?

[B]

Yeah. I Read the Bible.

[A]

It's really dark, sort of twisted. Guy's son dies.

[B]

A lot of.

[A]

He comes back.

[B]

Family tragedy. Yeah.

[A]

So it ends with this weird prophecy. The ocean turns into blood.

[B]

It took a turn.

[A]

Takes a turn. It starts off kind of. It's actually. This is the Bible. It starts off really fast. The Genesis.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like, great book. A lot of twists and turns. That's the Cecil B. DeMille stuff. And then the middle is real sleepy. Real sleepy. Stick with it, Stick with it. Wait for Jesus. Wait. He's sort of the Jared Leto of the story.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What?

[B]

That's so funny. Jared Leto was there.

[A]

Where?

[B]

On the vacation.

[A]

Okay. Synchronicity. Note it. Nothericity.

[B]

Right when we got there, he was there. He was at this hotel.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You saw Aletto?

[B]

Well, I mean, like, from so far. He was truly. It was like. It was like on one of those picturesque Italian. It's not a beach. It's like a rocky seaside.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Where you can kind of. You just, like, take a swim.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, this incredible area, but it was shallow rocks. But he was in. He was fully snorkel, like, snorkeling on his own. Like, no one else was. He was in a full wetsuit. Snorkeling.

[A]

Leto.

[B]

Yeah. And friends we were with said they had spoken to him. And, I mean, because I was like, whoa. Can you even. Like, is there anything even to see right here? Like. Cause it's. It was. He was on his own.

[A]

Like, he's just looking at his own beautiful reflection in the mask.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, he's looking at his own eyes. Oh, my God. I'm Jared Leto.

[B]

But apparently there were a lot of things to see down in there.

[A]

Yeah. He's no dummy. I actually. I'm gonna put this to you, Jared Leto. I think. I think people tease him a little bit because he's. He's so beautiful and all these things. So you assume he's stupid or whatever. I mean, I don't know what people are teasing him for, but I catch Leto being kind of a funny thing to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jared Leto, I think he might be supremely happy. Like, I think. I think he might be rocking the best life.

[B]

I think he. Yeah, he. It felt like a place he. He went a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, he knows there's. He knows. I'm like, what is he looking at? And, like, then I find out there's, like, all this life right there.

[A]

He's like, yeah, you gotta check this out.

[B]

I think he. I don't know, like, his full. I mean, he'll always be Jordan Catalano to me from My so Called Life. But I feel like right now he does roles where even if it might not be a show that I'm, like, obsessed with, it does seem like he's having fun. He's, like, taking roles that seem really fun.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So I'm like, how's it Gooch? You know what I mean? That. And then I did watch some of the We Work one where I'm like, these are like big characters that seem fun, but I don't want to put.

[A]

Down Joseph Gordon Lev. But if you think it's just a foregone conclusion that like a tech billionaire, like, upstart thing is like an easy slam dunk role. I wasn't as compelled by super pumped as I was by we crashed or whatever.

[B]

I didn't see the Joseph Gordon Levitt one.

[A]

Yeah, it's not. I saw it on an airplane, which is just sort of. What?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Which I don't know why Brian Koppelman, who wrote it and a lot of the people in it are wonderful, but for some reason, Jared Leto gave it that secret sauce. I'm giving some Leto love.

[B]

There you go. And I'm like, not even. I just am like, you know what? Good for you. Like, I'm not. I don't even know. I'm not even saying anything good or bad about the shows.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I'm like, whoa. He's like, going for it in a way that is like, I do think he is, like, seems like a happy person.

[A]

Well, remember when the quarantine happened and. And the joke was that Jared Leto didn't know because he. Because he was on a private retreat. Right. That's what I mean. Like, I think he's finding a pretty groovy balance. I don't know if there's. I didn't know this, but if there's a person that could be for a month, I think Jared Leto might be one of them.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Just be let out for a month. Just walking around.

[B]

That'd be a good choice.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Self care. So you were on your trip and you read a dirty book?

[B]

No, I read a book called My Year of Rest and Relaxation, which was a big book.

[A]

That's what the book is called.

[B]

Yeah, it was a big book a couple years ago. And I. I truly, I was like, well, I've never read this book and I clearly, I just picked it because I felt like I needed rest and relaxation.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

And it's about a woman that's so depressed that she does not leave her apartment for like months and months.

[A]

Bait and switch there.

[B]

But it did make me laugh.

[A]

Should have been called bummer.

[B]

I know it was. It was a weird choice for my vacation. But yeah, I did feel like the vacation and really letting my phone go. I had no way message. And it may be a bad time. The show had just come out.

[A]

Yep. Or maybe the best time, I thought.

[B]

Best time for me. But I was technically still. I could have been doing press but I was like, I need to end this for two weeks. So that felt like self care.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And so now I'm back a couple weeks trying to get some sort of award.

[A]

Two weeks.

[B]

Two weeks. I've never done that before.

[A]

All the publicists, you know what I mean? As a standup, they're always having us do things that you're like, I don't think this is actually moving the needle as much as like strategic little, like, do something that's really gonna help. Not me on my phone constantly stressing. I don't think that it feels like work. It's like writer's room stuff. It's like, we're gonna stay till nine. Cause it feels like work. How about we just write the script? Can we just write the script?

[B]

Yeah. We don't need to stay till nine. Like, for us to feel more. Like more stress isn't gonna help anything.

[A]

And to feel like grownups. So like we wanna have briefcases and but shirts and be like, we're out City Season 9 or whatever it is. Like, why are you turning this into a real job? It's. I don't mean broad city. I just mean all of them.

[B]

Yeah, I know. And why not be efficient and get to like have life experiences so you can actually write about something.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Welcome. You're welcome.

[A]

So silly.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Tell. So your parents are both artists. Is that true?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which one do you like least? No. Let me ask it nicely. Which parent did you get along with more growing up? Like, did you not? I'm gonna assume we liked and loved each. But like, I'll tell you, me and my mom, it was like this crazy alliance that she still has yet to get over that I left. You know what I mean? Like, there's like a real, like, thought we had a good thing going here and now I'm here with your dad. Like, this is weird. So I'm just wondering, where did you lean?

[B]

I don't know. I think I went back and I literally went back and forth you isolated? Yeah, well, I think I. I have really good relationship with relationships with both my parents. I think I might be more like my dad.

[A]

In what way?

[B]

Like, kind of like doing a lot of different things and interest. Like, I want to write this thing, and I'd love to, like, do, like, draw. Like. Like, just like, lots of different interests. But then on the flip side, I tend to be a little set in my ways and. And I am also kind of a homebody, which my mom is. I don't know my mom. So growing up, my mom was a potter and would sell her work at, like, craft shows. And then my dad is a graphic designer, environmental graphic designer. And my brother works with my dad now. But that's just giving you a little bit. But my parents got divorced when I was 13.

[A]

Rough age.

[B]

Yeah, rough age. Rough age.

[A]

Because you were, like, really aware of.

[B]

What was going on. Yeah, yeah, I was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then my brother is like, I love.

[A]

Sorry. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I really was. Thanks for mentioning.

[B]

I really was. But we also. It was also sort of fully Jewish, but not the typical Jewish family where, like, we weren't talking. Like, I fully knew what was happening, but it was very much, like, not talked about very often.

[A]

The divorce.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that like, a. How is that Jewish?

[B]

No, no, I. Not. We're not Jewish in that. I think maybe stereotypically, like, Jews are more, like, vocal about.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, more like therapy. Like, and early open. Yeah.

[A]

This is what I envy when I.

[B]

Watch not all the shows that way as much.

[A]

Imagine just, like, saying what you're thinking in real time. I don't think it's very WASPy. Let's put it the other way. It's very WASP. Yes. Be like, your mother and I need to have a discussion. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. I don't think. I think we weren't. Wasn't that formal, but it was, I think, a little bit more WASP Y.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was happening and you weren't super aware of it.

[B]

It was sort of just like, I was aware and then it was happening.

[A]

Brutal.

[B]

And then, like, not much talk about it.

[A]

Not to put down your parents, but that's just brutal.

[B]

They were doing what they.

[A]

Yes, everybody.

[B]

I was fine. I said I was fine. So you're, you know. Yeah, I think they. They were doing the best they could. And. And I will say to your earlier question about, like, who'd you get along with better? So my brother is four years older, so we were never in school together, and so he was, like, home for, like, A year. And then went to college and then it was just me and I switched houses every Sunday for five years.

[A]

No, McGoost.

[B]

No, no. Yeah, five years. So.

[A]

So you'd spend a week.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the next Sunday you'd go back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that standard divorce protocol?

[B]

I think it. I think it's that or it's on the menu. Stay at one house and then you go for a weekend or whatever. And I was really close with both my parents. And so this is me being. Finding the silver lining right now, which is what I think I tended to do as a kid. But I got to know them individually way better than I think I would have if they were together. Because it was like me and my mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then me and my dad.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So it was like truly like us. Like if I spent doing that in a very different way, I'd be like, what you? Like, I'd figure something out and like us cooking and us doing this only.

[A]

Knew them as a dynamic.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

As a unit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. There's something kind of great about it, but it also sounded like maybe it was whiplash.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it. I. My. The way my life is now can be directly pinned to that. I like split my time between New York and la. Like, I truly. I'm trying to do that still. And I'm like. My therapist was like, why do you think you're doing that? Like, I'm truly mimicking tapping a picture. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm like. I live in. I thrive in chaos.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a way.

[A]

You probably don't like the feeling of a cruising altitude.

[B]

No. It makes me uncomfortable.

[A]

How does that work? You're in a long term relationship. Does that show up?

[B]

Yeah, it's something we. We literally.

[A]

Yes, it does.

[B]

No, no, in a great way. We literally talked about this yesterday. The fact that the chaos and how we both sort of like, I. I feel like even anyone in this industry, whether you're working or not, it is chaotic. You do not know. Nothing is stable.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

You know, so it's just like pirates.

[A]

We occasionally meet in like a shanty bar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we go out to sea and you look, we're meeting in a port and you're going, I bagged a League of Their Own. And I go, the remake. How dare you? It's a reimagining. Then I make you walk the plank. I'm just kidding. But like, I. I'm totally with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's one of the reasons why I like being one of the reasons why? Being married. And basically, I'm also homebody. Pretty boring. Boring is not the right word. I find it peaceful.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Peaceful. Steady.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Is because my. My work is so nuts.

[B]

Yeah. I feel the same. Where I love. Even if I'm trying to, like, split my time somehow.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The. I do feel. I do feel it. I want to say boring, too, but it's just like, I want to read.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or I want to just, like, be at home, because the rest is so.

[A]

You just made me wish I was at home. I'm having such a great time. I really am. But I just said to somebody last night, I was like, I'm so glad there's a social component to my work. I did sets last night, doing this with you right now. And I'm like, if I didn't have a compulsive addiction. Good addiction to this podcast. To stand up. I don't think. I think I'd have jars of urine in my house.

[B]

Like, I do feel. Yeah. It is, like, because it's like a high. It's like a manic energy.

[A]

Yes. Me too.

[B]

In at work and, like, right in a writer's room, you, like, you are. You are paid to be on. It's truly, like, turn on. Because you got to, like, churn out. You're spewing ideas.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And if you do not do that, then you're not. That's like, the job is spewing out, editing this. Then we're gonna do this, like, four year. Like, it's like. So then when I'm not working, I want just like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that. That does also make sense because. Or I'm trying to map it back on, but, like, that chaos feels very natural to me. Moving back and forth and being sort of, like, stressed and not knowing why.

[A]

And I'm gonna.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not often that I hesitate to say something. I share almost everything on this podcast, but I think this is fair. My family life growing up was chaotic. In the same way, I didn't know which version of my parents I was gonna get in the very same way, you don't know which show business you're gonna get.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know when you pitch something and they buy it and you're like, oh, I got happy dad today. Like, that's how it feels. And if you do something and it goes badly, you're like, dad was in a bad mood today.

[B]

And then you don't even know. You're like, wait, how did it go, though?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Like, you pitch and you're like, they seem this way but they didn't. And then. Or like, well, they want to make it but like in. They really didn't seem like that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like you're. It's truly that anything goes.

[A]

Were you. I'll. I'll say what I experienced in my youth and one and. But know that I'm telling it to see if it was similar for you is like I felt like the. The Jason Bourne. You know how Jason Bourne in those movies is like, he always knows where the exits are. And yeah. You know, he. Like I was watching my mom be upset by something my dad said and my dad is like eating peas and I'm like, he doesn't know. He doesn't know. He just upset her. And like, I can like reading. I don't want to make myself sound like a genius. I'm just being a hyper sensitive person. Highly sensitive person. Which I still am. It's one of the reasons why.

[B]

Anyway, not to mention it's like reading body language. Because you constantly.

[A]

Yes, you have to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything. Not just when is a good time to ask for a phone in your room? Which I really wanted 90s but like private line.

[B]

I had one.

[A]

I didn't have a private line, but.

[B]

I got one for my birthday one year. It was like my. Yeah.

[A]

At which house, though? I'm that friend. Yeah, but at which house?

[B]

Before I. Before this? No, I think I had it at my mom's. I only had the private line at my mom's.

[A]

I mean, if I'm your dad, I'm getting two lines.

[B]

No, I didn't have that.

[A]

You can put one on hold, conference, all the 90s stuff. But like, it wasn't just like, when is a good time to ask for something? But like, I just want to be able to digest my dinner. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

By the way, a lot of people had it worse. I'm just dealing with tensions. That's fine. I'm just throwing a bone to the.

[B]

People that are like, listen, all relative. Everything's relative. Like, yeah, everyone's childhood trauma is very.

[A]

It's theirs. Yes, it's theirs. But I don't know if it's uniquely Boston, but like everyone I grew up with, you can't get them to complain about their childhood because they're always like, well, they didn't, you know, put cigarettes out on me.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

Yeah. But they did leave you in the car for nine hours. Whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, whatever it is. Like, your shit is your shit. I'm Glad you said it. I usually say it. I'm totally with you. Thank you. So is this where you started to develop, for lack of a better term, like, talent? Like, you started to get, like, mimicking, noticing, hyper attention? I mean, how much of what we do is going like. And then mom is like this. And you can kind of talk in their voice, but it's because you were paying attention.

[B]

I think I was very observant as a kid and very, like, maybe because of some of this. Like, very much on my own. Like, I was very good at. I drew a lot as a kid, even before that. And that is because they both are in the art world. And I.

[A]

That's great. Because I'm always worried that Lila won't like being silly or that's my daughter. So they both liked art and you liked it, too. Cool.

[B]

Yeah. And it was like. It was very, like, part of, like, my, like, birthdays and stuff was like, art supplies and just because that was like. I don't know. That always felt better than. I mean, now I hope kids are still getting art supplies and stuff because it's so, like, screen filled, but the.

[A]

Infinite potential of a blank piece of paper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't it the best?

[B]

It's the best. And that would, like, occupy so much of my time as a kid. And I don't think I came to performance stuff until later. Like, my parents were. My grandparents were very funny. And I started to. I was obsessed with snl and I would kind of mimic that. Them, not people. Yeah. I would mimic SNL characters.

[A]

Who did you latch to?

[B]

Mike Myers, of course. And Gilda Radner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just like, I was just obsessed. And my parents were obsessed with snl.

[A]

Like, fun.

[B]

My parents, like, would. I didn't know this, but my parents smoked weed. And like, I had no idea that they were smoking weed and wheat. Like, every once in a while would stay up and watch or I would be doing something and they would be hysterical. And I thought I was just making them laugh. And they're slurred as high and, like, so sweet. Because they're just home with us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're not, like, high in an irresponsible way.

[A]

That is not what I thought at all.

[B]

But it's so sweet now to be like, we're also really high. But that also gave me confidence.

[A]

Isn't that such a. Yeah. I had a lot of feelings, but from that. I don't know. I do know why, but let's keep going.

[B]

Yeah. And then I didn't get. Go really into Performance. Like, I did a little bit in middle school, and I was. I felt funny. I used to do. We had homeroom, like, student council, homeroom reports. I don't know if you had this as a kid where there'd be, like, student council representative in your home.

[A]

Speak.

[B]

Yeah. And you would like, once a month, go to the meeting and you'd come back to your homeroom and like, talk about.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

What was going on in school. And I always did it as Linda Richmond, which is coffee talk. And then my teachers loved it. And it was almost like, happy, the. That validation from the adults.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was like, oh, but then I went to art school. Like, I. I didn't know. And I don't know about you, but, like, I didn't know anyone that did anything in this world.

[A]

Art.

[B]

No, no. Like Hollywood, like, writing, acting. Like, so this was like, not even on the menu. No. I was like, what? I love performing for school at school, but, like, what the am I gonna do?

[A]

I'll say. For me, it was Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. I know that's silly, but they were a little bit older than us and they won Oscars. And we were like.

[B]

And wrote it themselves.

[A]

And wrote it themselves.

[B]

All of that.

[A]

I was like, who did it for you?

[B]

Who did that? Because I didn't come to it.

[A]

Geena Davis, Rosie o'. Donnell.

[B]

No, I mean, I don't. I. I gotta say, like, maybe Gilda.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I read Gilda's book, her autobiography. Like, when I was a kid, I was really did deep dives on Gilda Radner.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I watched Gilda Live a lot, which aired on Comedy Central. Have you seen Gilda Live?

[A]

No.

[B]

It's great. Mike Nichols directed it. Like, Paul Schaeffer is her musical. Like, it's great. It's like, if you love Gilda on snl, it's like she does all these characters, but it's on Broadway. Maybe that I don't know. And then.

[A]

But when you went to art. Sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you went to art school, it wasn't as warm. Is that what you were getting to? You said you did your homeroom report and everybody was dying and the teachers were laughing. And then you said, and then I went to art school.

[B]

And then. I mean, and then I went to art school because I was like, well, I'm not going to be a performer. Like, what? In high school, you had to sing to act. And I didn't feel like I could do that. And so I ended up going to art school because I Could. I could see like you can see if you're good at that or not. I could draw.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was, I was.

[A]

You can do it alone.

[B]

Yeah. And I and my brother went to art school who's older than me. My dad was a graphic designer. My mom is a potter. I was like, this is being a successful artist. Even though that seems just as hard, felt more attainable because I was like, wow, I can do this here and see that it's good and looks like this. And that felt way more. I don't even.

[A]

It feels more attainable to me.

[B]

And I could think this way. And I was like excelling in my art class at, in high school.

[A]

And I think it's because you, you and I both know that there are potters, artists and graphic designers that you have. You and I haven't heard of. But there's no one who's successful in show business that we haven't heard of.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like they have to like get on the board.

[B]

Yeah. And it just felt, it felt like we've all been a graphic design. Like I just didn't. I didn't feel like I could. I guess I always was like, I want to be on snl, but it didn't totally feel possible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when I was in college, I would take this bus up to New York going to college in Baltimore at this school called mica, Maryland Institute College of Art. And I'd go up to New York all the time. And I minored in video. And then I started to be a little bit more everyone's wanna what? Maybe I could figure this out or like go to acting school.

[A]

Comedy. Yeah, comedy and acting.

[B]

I think not even I had. Comedy was like childhood. And then I felt like I was good at it. But then I really wanted to go to acting school. So I applied to the Atlantic Theater, which is like Mamet and William H. Macy's school in New York. And I got in and so I went to this conservatory after college for a week because it was so. It is a two year conservatory, like dramatic actor or a one week. And I.

[A]

It's a one week.

[B]

Moved to New York after I graduated from college and started this thing and I was so this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to really be an actor. And I hated it more than I think anything I've done. I felt so I was completely stiff and numb. It's not how my mind worked. It was like scene study, analyzing a scene, analyzing like beat word by word. And I. I can't I couldn't. And then my roommate, it was taking.

[A]

What you love is like a free flowing silly. Like, like. Like how you made Broad City in the moment. Figuring it out on its feet and turn. It's like what we were saying about writers rooms.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And no disrespect to that process. It's just not for me either. Like, what do you mean? Look, when you say but ellipses, what do you think that ellipses? Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Okay, shut the fuck up.

[B]

Talking about it, analyzing it before it comes out of your mouth so that when you're ready, when it is going to come out of your mouth, like how could you ever. It's just not how my brain is.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

And my roommate at the time, who was someone I went to college with and I had done video work in college and really it was just characters. It was fully just characters. Like SNL stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But projected on a gallery wall so it felt serious. At college she was like, have you ever heard of this place? The UCB Upright Citizens Grade. And I had not. And I went one night by myself on 28th.

[A]

The Ridge.

[B]

Yeah. And was just blown away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I had never seen anything like that before.

[A]

Because it was exactly what you were going.

[B]

Exactly. And I was like this. I don't know. I honestly was like, I have no idea what they're doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the best way. But I. It's all I wanted.

[A]

It's like seeing the. The Lots boys. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm. I'm projecting onto you my experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I saw improv. I was like, there are other boys and girls.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You're like. It's just awe and it's just. I want to do whatever they're doing. That looks so engaging and so.

[A]

And this is where you meet Alana, right?

[B]

Yeah. And then I just. I quit Atlantic.

[A]

How did you do that? Okay, we have to take a small break.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not going to do the ads in front of you, but we're going to go to the ads. I want to know how you quit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm picturing you handing a resignation to David Mamet, which you're going to have to tell me if I'm wrong. He runs the day to day.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

As he calls it, the fucking day to day.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then I also want to get into. Into UCB and all that. But we're just going to take. We're back in two minutes. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our Friends at every plate. Fall is finally here. Which means back to routine, back to busy schedules, and back to the best time saving hack for weeknight dinners. I'm talking about every plate. At first I was skeptical, skeptical about meal kits, thinking they were overpriced, so expensive. But now with every plate, I'm convinced you can get the same deliciousness at a lower price. A much lower price, in fact. And now the quality of life goes right through the roof. Val and I are cooking together, making these meals together, cooking them for me, for Lee, for her. Sitting down like a family, feeling good and eating delicious, delicious stuff. If you think meal kits are too expensive, think again. Every plate is 25% cheaper than grocery shopping. 25% cheaper. And they make it fun and they make it easy. So don't turn to takeout when things get hectic. Instead, get every plate delivery. It's 58% cheaper than your average fast, casual meal. And you can always feel good about what you're eating. Plus you get in the kitchen, which is so good for your digestion. You smell and you see what you're making and that starts the process. And then you feel this great feeling of satisfaction when you're plating it and eating something that you prepared. It's a wonderful way to bond with the family, and it's a wonderful way to make it an event and an activity with no stress and without breaking the bank. Every plate's quality ingredients come pre portioned to help you save money and honestly reduce food waste. You know, like that big bag of spinach you throw out every week because it starts to turn into liquid, they start getting dark, dark green and sticking to the bottom. You know what I'm talking about. So when your weekdays and nights get jam packed, every plate will help you get delicious meals on the table without breaking the bank. You can skip your weekly trip to the grocery store as well. So this is win, win, win. I'm actually counting like 12 wins here. So if you get your first box for just one 49, that's $1.49 per meal by going to everyplate.com and entering code weird149 because it's $1.49 per meal, which is crazy. Get started with everyplate for just $1.49 per meal on your first box by going to everyplate.com and entering code weird149. And that's up to $110 value. That's crazy. Thank you, every plate for your support of this show. This episode is also brought to us by Our friends at Mint Mobile, after years of fine print contracts and getting R off by big wireless providers, if we've learned anything, it's that there's always a catch. Always a catch when it comes to mobile service. So when I first heard that Mint Mobile offers premium wireless Starting at just 15 bucks a month, I thought, well, what's the catch? But after talking to them and finding out more about their service, it all makes sense. There isn't a catch. There isn't one. Mint Mobile's secret sauce is that they're the first company to sell wireless service online only. That means they cut out the cost of retail stores and pass those sweet, sweet savings directly to you. I mean, 15 bucks, that's crazy. If you swap, you could be Saving, I mean, 67 crazy amounts of bread is what I'm saying. And 15 bucks is incredible. So for anyone who hates their phone bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. Mint Mobile gives you the best rate whether you're buying for one or for a family. And at Mint, families start at just two lines. Two lines for a family. That's awesome. And all plans come with unlimited talk and text and high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. So you can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and keep the same phone number along with all of your existing contact details. Switch to Mint Mobile and get premium wireless service starting at just 15 bucks a month. So if you want to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month and get the plan shipped to your door for free and show your support of the show, go to mintmobile.com weird that's mint mobile.com weird. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/weird. And for us, we're back right now. Okay, so we're back.

[B]

We're back.

[A]

We're back. For us, there was no break. How did you quit that conservatory? Because, I mean, this is a big deal. Your parents had to be paying for it. Or were you paying?

[B]

They were. I was very lucky. My parents paid for college. College.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that I was paying for this.

[A]

Okay, that makes it better.

[B]

I think I was paying for. I'm like, now I'm like, either way, it. I ended it when I ended it because I would have lost so much money. Oh, you were in it like, it was like. It was like, you can take it if you quit before this time you won't lose your deposit. You will just get it back.

[A]

I can't wait to quit. With you.

[B]

And so I was. It was a mess. I was like hysterical on the street in New York, which at some point happens to everybody that lives there. And I was like, I need to quit now or I will lose the bulk of this. It would be. It would have gone past the week or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I went in and just. It was one of those scary. I was like, I can't do this. I guess I can't be an actor and maybe I'll do this other thing that. I wasn't sure what that trajectory was.

[A]

Wait, you had seen ucb.

[B]

Dad seen it.

[A]

So that helped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You started the other relationship before you broke up with the bad one.

[B]

It was kind of simultaneous.

[A]

Okay. Nebby.

[B]

Yeah. But. But UCB wasn't. It's not like you go on and perform on that stage right away. You are. It's like signing up for a class.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And so who was your.

[A]

So you signed up for class?

[B]

Signed up.

[A]

Who taught your level one?

[B]

Zach Woods.

[A]

He taught my level three. Yeah, we were there around the same time.

[B]

Yeah. This was 2006.

[A]

I actually. You're reminding me all of 2006. I remember. Yes. So I was there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hearing about Broad City. Sometimes seeing Alana do some like, she did these, like. And this is not the Alana conversation. I just imagine you get that you would have.

[B]

I mean, Alana was way more stand up than me. So you. Your paths probably would have crossed in that world.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. And she did these things where she was wearing like, like a work. Like a. Like an 80s workout thing, almost like American Apparel. And she was like, bend. It was just really like hypersexual. It's like the point of it was like, I think making fun of how hypersexual American Apparel was because.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she was like bending over orgasmically. But it was very funny. But it was also very sexual. And I remember being. I was very Christian and weird and being like, who's this young lady? Like, I was the person that she was freaking out. Like people like me. But I remember her at that time. But I don't think our paths crossed, but I remember hearing tell of you guys.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, we were just UCB for a long time. We started doing broad city in 2009.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But before that, I mean, it was just like day jobs and I was UCB classes and I was doing some more character stuff and she was doing more stand up. And we met in a practice group. Bobby Moynihan was our coach.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I. He was our coach. When he got on snl and he kept doing it well, it was like. I just. He was our coach and he was like, this second audition, freaking. Like, he was like, telling us week by week of what was going on. And then when he got it, you know, it takes a while. It's like. He would have gotten it, like, in May, and then it would have started in August. So he was like, I have to go. I'm gonna go on. It was like, so exciting. Wow.

[A]

I remember he said when I always forget this guy's name, Don Pardo, the announcer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Said his name that backstage, he just started weeping, which I thought was so, so sweet. So sweet.

[B]

Yeah, he was great. But we were on a team.

[A]

Practice team. I didn't know. That was like two years you got on a. Because I didn't know how to.

[B]

Not at ucb. Like, basically, we. You would pay a coach and you would pay for a space like, once a week.

[A]

This is what I did in Chicago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because UCB was such a hard nut to crack.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And every time I auditioned, I would. The bed. Like, I just. They'd make you audition. Sorry, but I. I'm gonna stick with my words. They'd make you audition with people you didn't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're improvising with eight other sweaty white guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, would all just do poorly because everyone's going, like, I'm gonna make the big play.

[B]

Right. And you don't know. You just. There's not that trust. If you could, like, sign up with a friend. That was always ideal. But I couldn't crack it either. I mean, that's the whole reason why we started Broad City. I was obsessed with ucb. All I wanted was to get on that stage and, like, could not never get on those teams or anything. And so Alana and I were like, should we just, like, make something? And so that was what we did. But the practice group, we would perform. I mean, that was so fun.

[A]

And Alana was on this group.

[B]

Yeah, me and Alana, her brother Elliot.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Tim Martin. I don't know if.

[A]

You know, let me do a take each way and we'll edit it accordingly. Oh, yeah. Tim. No, no. I don't know. Tim. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But what if I do? I'm so scared.

[B]

So funny. No, I don't know if you would know Tim. Anyway, like, he is the one that introduced Alana and I. But we would perform at, like, under St. Mark's Theater, like, Little Black box theaters where you'd rent the space and like, give shots to the audience to like get them. It was just like a very fun time. Yeah. Let's really bring back never getting on one of the house teams at ucb. And that was very much the. What is it called?

[A]

The like, impetus.

[B]

Yeah. To start our own thing.

[A]

Yeah. Those gatekeepers can be good for the people that are there at the beginning when the gate is first being put up. And then it actually becomes like this bottleneck that you even great people, it's. It's not even a UCB thing or, or other places thing, just the nature of gatekeepers. Then they just start keeping out more people than they let.

[B]

And there's never going to be enough space for everybody. And if you're a little bit different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're not going to fit into like the formula of like a Herald team or whatever.

[A]

Well, I know this sounds absurd now and isn't that fun, but like a two lady team in 2009 would have been kind of like, okay, not. Not full okay. But it wasn't exactly like, like, correct me if I'm wrong, this was still when most people going to an improv show were expecting nine white guys and a girl.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so we knew going in was like, okay, the slots for us are so few.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also we were both just like kind of different. Like, Alana wasn't as obsessed. She was really into improv, but I was like obsessed with improv. And Alana, I mean, what we do, what we ended up doing at Broad City is not improv. So it was, it was more. It was always based on our dynamic. So we were never doing like. We would never have really done a two person improv show because our. What we ended up finding was just sort of like these two amplified versions of us. And then we can improvise within that context of the situation we're laying out or like the scripted episode. But we were never like on our team. We were good and fine, but that was never like. Our goal was to like go on for us to be like all these different characters necessarily. But there were like, Nicole Byer was her. Her team with Keisha and Sasheer were really popular. There were like women doing not Harold stuff.

[A]

But I know what you mean. It's just that seems like the new normal. Like you'd be like, of course it's like this or this or this. But very much in 2009. That's about when I left in 2010. So it was still. It was unconscious. Meaning I don't think we knew we were doing it, but that's what was happening. You were an outlier if you were two ladies. And did you guys become super close friends right away? Is there some fun, funny story that you went to a KFC that was also a Taco Bell and you stayed there all night or something? Like, what is the story?

[B]

The story is just. So this guy, Tim Martin, brought Alana. Yeah, Brought Alana onto our practice group that I. We'd been going. Lennon Parham was sometimes our coach for that Level one. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Great.

[B]

She's the best. And so Tim had brought these two new players, Alana and Elliot, her brother, onto the team that night. And I was so confused because I really thought that Alana was Aliya Shawkat, who played Mabee on Arrested Development.

[A]

You thought it was her?

[B]

I didn't know. I didn't know what that actress's name was in real life.

[A]

You just thought it was Mabie for.

[B]

Because they really look alike.

[A]

My God, I never put that together. But you're.

[B]

They really look alike. And so I thought.

[A]

And I'm gonna add to the mix, one of the people in she Hulk looks enough like her that I was like, is that just for a second. I don't even know who it is.

[B]

Maybe Tatiana.

[A]

All I saw was a preview. It might have been at a gas station, maybe.

[B]

But I don't think they get like. Aliya and Alana get, like, mistaken for each other sometimes, which is what happened. And I also, like, get. I didn't know her real name. And Arrested Development, the original one, had just ended. Well, maybe she moved to New York and would be in the comedy scene here.

[A]

By the way, someone I know took a clown class. And what's her name?

[B]

Alia.

[A]

Alia was in that class.

[B]

Oh, so there you go.

[A]

So, like, exactly.

[B]

Going like, it might have been Alana.

[A]

I don't think that is so funny.

[B]

My friend thought it was her, too.

[A]

You assume everyone makes that mistake.

[B]

And so we went to McManus.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is where the UCB community. And, like, just the Com. It's one of the bars that the comedy community at least used to hang out at. And we went there that night, and we were at the bar, and Alana and I were just, like, hitting off. We were the only two girls on this team. And the more she talked, she was like, I'm from Long Island. And we ended up having a friend in common. And I was like, this is not the girl. Like, this is not the girl from.

[A]

Arrested Development you were slowly putting together.

[B]

But I really love this girl Alana.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she was so. I can't, you know, just. So all the things that make Alana unique, just very bold and opinionated and hilarious and just, like, really felt very different to who I was at the time, which is what we ended up amplifying. So I was always a little bit shy or a little bit more insecure, doubtful of, like, why I was even trying to do what I was trying to do. And Alana had this sense about her that felt like she really knew who she was. And that is sort of like the seeds of these two characters.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And by the way, who wouldn't feel that way with Alana? Like, that? What a great wild card. And then you're like, well, I'll just kind of tone myself down a couple notches, and we'll have a nice, odd couple going on.

[B]

But it was. It was. We were just on this team for two years before Broad City, and that was just this. Our dynamic. Like, we just made each other laugh. So we're very much. We're very alike. Both have older brothers, both Jewish, both more culturally Jewish than religious. And, I don't know, we just. This dynamic was just cracked both of both of us up. And then when we were both really frustrated with our careers, what if we just did something else? What if we made this thing that was, like, tangible? Yeah, a little bit. Like, I was talking about, well, I could draw, and I could see I could draw. Like, we were trying to do these shows, and we're like, what if we made a thing that was like, a thing you could send, and it was like a piece of something that would.

[A]

Audition for you and exist? When you like something that's like. Like doing a web series or a video or whatever, it's out there walking around even when you're asleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it gave us control over something, gave us agency in that we could. No, one, we couldn't. We were auditioning for commercials. Just couldn't get anything. Like, you know what? Let's just do this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Invest. Like, we were so broke. We also work next to each other.

[A]

Where?

[B]

Well, I worked at a bakery called Bird Bath and Lucia in Yellow.

[A]

Isn't that where birds poop or bathe? Okay. They bathe. Yeah. I poop in the bath, so I don't know what's going on. Sorry, I'm confused. I'm always bathing in the toilet, and then I take a big dump in the tub. Why are they always covered in bird shit? They're not. Go on.

[B]

I worked at this bakery. Sorry. We had started Broad City, the web series, and I worked at a bakery, which is the City Bakery in New York, had these offshoots called Bird Bath. I worked at one of those. And one of our best friends, Lucia Aniello, who now does the show Hacks and who was a ep and one of them, our main director of Broad City, later on had worked at this company called Lifebooker, which we were in the craze of, like, Groupon type businesses. And that was another one of those. Lucia got this job and then got Alana a job like a week later or a couple weeks later, and then got me a job. And so we. I was sitting next to Alana and we were doing. We were making Broad City, the web series and sort of, you know, every episode we were paying like our director, like 100 bucks or like paying the pizza shop to stay open an hour later to let us shoot in the back. 50 bucks and like bringing bagels to everybody. Like, it was so diy.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that was. Our stories are very similar. To keep it brief, I was frustrated not being able to get in certain places, certain gatekeepers, doors closed. And then I've told this story before, but I noticed people like Aziz were making human giant videos and all that sort of stuff. But like, the thing that I found to be really. I knew for a long time, and it was like a pretty frustrating time of my life where I was writing sketches and I wanted to do them, but I didn't know who could edit and shoot and who had equipment and who had lights and stuff. And until I met Orin Brimmer, who does everything. And we still work together, but like finding an Orin or finding a Brendan cohost, you know, like, really hard. How did you find some? I know you studied video a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, but I didn't. Wasn't. I will again. Mine were sort of like a camera and I was doing a character and then I figure out how to edit a little, but I never really trained in that way. So there used to be this site called the IRC Improv Resource center that I would go on. You know, you'd find out about shows or someone is looking for a new improv members. You would just like. You'd go on there and there'd be like. It was almost like a little Reddit. I'm not familiar with Reddit. I think it's like Reddit.

[A]

Neither am I.

[B]

Sort of like a place where you.

[A]

Read it real fast.

[B]

You what?

[A]

I'll say, as I have many times I've said subreddit. I don't know what that means.

[B]

It's like a.

[A]

It's like a League of Their Own.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they talk about it, but I think they read it in HTML. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. Yeah, well, it was like that, where like, there were, like, these just, like, discussions. But also you could post, like, something you needed or wanted or get out.

[A]

It worked.

[B]

Yeah. And so this guy, Rob Michael Hugo.

[A]

Edit that out.

[B]

What? That worked?

[A]

No, edit out this guy's name. We're not giving him any.

[B]

This guy, Rob Michael Hugo had posted that he was, like, interested in directing and editing. And so I knew him from a class or a practice group, and I was like, dude, we're looking for that. And for the first season of Broad City, the web series, we did two seasons. He did all of them. And then the second season, we expanded, and so we had a bunch of different directors. So, like, Paul Briganti, who ended up being, like, SNL's director. Lucia. Who else? Just a lot of directors that are. That really wanted to direct this, and we had no money. We would. Rob worked just with us. I don't.

[A]

And he had cameras. Yeah, he did.

[B]

Yeah, he had a camera. I mean, we used one of these. I mean, Canon.

[A]

Was it a happy day? This is a leading question, but the first sketch that I shot with me and Matt McCarthy and Oren. And Oren came and he brought a bounce out, like this light bounce. And he had a camera and he had a tripod, and I was just like, I could have cried. I was like, oh, I found the guy. Was that a feeling like, oh, we're finally plugged in.

[B]

I mean, we worked with Rob for the first season, and then it, like, it changed a little as, like, dynamics due, and we started working with other people, and Rob still was, like, a part of it, but it felt like growing pains within the web series. But, yeah, it was. It was exciting because also, you know, a lot of people that are in the web series, like, wanted to be actors, and we needed extras. And so it was always about using the community. And I always found people on irc. It was really bad.

[A]

Someone calling an Uber for Mikey. It's like that need again in Tribe. They talk about how, like, there's obviously disadvantages to being living in poverty, but the need that forces people together into community is closer to our evolutionary history than wealth will ever be. In fact, the more wealth you have, you're at higher risk of suicide and depression.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when you're telling this story. Right.

[B]

Yeah. I mean that this time we're all.

[A]

Racing towards being depressed and suicidal in a mansion.

[B]

Yeah. And like this, that time was. Was so exciting because it was like hustling to try and find this stuff. And, you know, listen, I. I don't know, the other people involved might have a different experience of doing this stuff, but we always hoped the intention was that everyone involved was getting experience for their reel and their. What they wanted to do as well. And we paid them what we could pay them. And we would have these big parties, like. Do you remember 92Y Tribeca?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is not there anymore, is a great space. But we'd have these big parties where we would screen like a couple episodes and have a big party and like, the directors would come up and talk and, like, really trying to. To find that community. But then, you know, when we got the show, the TV version was always. We were writing about that time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So, like, Abby and Alana weren't trying to be actors and writers, but it was always that hustle.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

On the TV version was about that. That feeling of being in New York in your 20s and trying and doing, like, wanting and like finding your community and all that stuff.

[A]

It's going to be the most interesting time of year life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's what crashing was. Okay, now I've reached a cruising altitude. Now. I'll tell you a fabricated, mostly true, but, like exaggerated or toned down in some cases, version of what it was like. Yeah. The reason I'm. I'm shining a light on this is like, for all the people watching that are in that. That time when you're like, uncertain, the gatekeepers won't let you in. You haven't found your Alana. In your case. In my case, my Orin, my mattress, like, that means you're on the same path we were all. Everybody has a time where they're just like, this isn't working.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That means you're in good company.

[B]

And also I found that though. Listen, I hope I. I mean, I have written about other things, but that was. That time was the most fruitful material for sure. Resource for me.

[A]

For sure. Because you were. You were flapping in the wind.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, even looking back on it, like, I needed to go through all that, what felt like those shitty, hopeless kind of moments where you're just trying to get anything. Like that is. Most of my material is from that time.

[A]

Absolutely. And I'm not now. I'M not forcing it. But a league of their own. It's not about the third season of the baseball league. It's about the first season. It's about the running to the train, leaving your life.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Love those stories.

[B]

Yes. About the. Like, who am I? I feel like it's always about figuring it out.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Figuring out where you are.

[A]

And once you have it figured out, I mean, I'm not set. Look, to a certain extent, I have it figured out, and I love my life. I just don't have a lot. I don't have as many stories about it. I don't want to be like, well, I went to the Whole Foods and they had less kale than I had. Like, that's not as interesting as, like, we'd go to the Whole Foods and eat the free samples and leave.

[B]

Always. That is everyone. Yep.

[A]

Or 99 cents.

[B]

You'd be like, you have to. You can't just.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And you just want to be like, you're just some guy. You don't work for this yogurt company. You're just. You're. We're the same team.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Tell me. I don't want to get into what Val and I call Nasty Delicious when you're talking shit. But I am interested in when going from web series to TV show. I remember when I got my first couple credits, there's just, like, a little bit of a Survivors. What's it called? Survivor's Guilt was there. I mean, you can't bring all of these people with you. Everybody that went to 92 y Tribeca, I'm going to say 99% of them couldn't come on the. Let's not call it a lifeboat. That's too dramatic. But you got this break. How did you navigate your first success?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure. Again, I'm sure there are people who probably hate me. Rue your name or, you know, without me intending that or. I thought maybe I handled a situation one way and didn't. That's just.

[A]

I just want to say. Absolutely. That's true for me too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And so that sucks. But I'm. I mean, I hope it's not like, a vicious hate, but maybe, like, the situation felt very different for them than it felt for me. That's probably never. Because I have that with. On the other side.

[A]

Oh, forget it. So talk about, like, Aziz. There was, like, I looked at him, but there was also times where I was just like, Aziz, you know what I mean? Like, what is. What is his life. There's. That was his business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And my business was my business. But like, I. They become the symbol of your frustration.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm sure. And, yeah, I'm sure that that happened. I think we had worked with so many people on the web series, and then there was like this big, huge time lapse of us pitching and developing, and we were at FX for a year writing the pilot, and then they passed. And then we were like. There was so much time that we hadn't really been working with anyone specifically when we were done with the web series, that it felt like crazy to not like it wasn't. It wasn't like someone we were like by at that point.

[A]

Yep, that's probably good. It slowed down a little bit.

[B]

And again, maybe that there was messiness in the middle there. But I think we've. We really tried and not even out of, like, listen, so many people helped us, but they were peoples whose work we loved. So it wasn't even like we owe them. It was like, well, we do. They did. We do owe them, and they're great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If that makes sense. So it wasn't like we're bringing people. We're trying to include people because we feel owed. It was like both. It was like they were part of this and they're awesome at this. So I was so happy with the. The TV show in. I always felt like it was an extension of UCB and the comedy community in New York. Like, you can't watch an episode without.

[A]

And Neil was in the pilot. Neil.

[B]

Casey.

[A]

Casey, yeah.

[B]

And Neil was in Broad City. And just. I think in Broad City, we. There are so many New York comedy people in every. In the series. Right. I mean, Hannibal we met. I mean, Hannibal, we had known for a long time. He used to do standup at shows where we were doing our improv team shows. Hannibal Gemberling, two of our. Paul. I mean, Paul Downs wrote on the show as well. And Paul and Lucia were our main two collaborators from ucb. Like, from UCB days. Like, it just felt such an extension of that community that actually we couldn't. We couldn't perform on that stage. And then I almost felt like we created a space where we all could. We all could.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even. Even in League, like Don Finelli is on Darcy. I mean, I've known Darcy for 15 years. I met in a commercial acting class that I truly.

[A]

Brooke and Mary. No, not Brooke and Mary. I bet we took the same one, though.

[B]

It was. It was someone.

[A]

I can't remember their name.

[B]

Her name to me all the time. Because Darcy has a story. Darcy felt like. She said she went home and told Jason, her husband. When we took this class, she was like, there's this girl in this class that's great. And the teachers think she sucks. Like, the teachers just, like, can't see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I. I really feel that way where I'm like, I believe in these people and, like, I think these people are so funny.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if I have the power to, like, cast people, I'm gonna cast the people who I love working with because I. They're fun in the process and they're great. And for some reason, like, aren't always thought of.

[A]

It's like, I wish you would say this so we could put on the YouTube thumbnail, but I'm gonna say it. If you don't like the gatekeepers, build your own gate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what would you say? That. I'm just kidding.

[B]

No, like, I don't think that we ever thought that. But, like, we just, like, it became that where it was like, wow, we're gonna cast. Get third.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My get third. And Shannon o' Neill were the two most influential improv teachers for me and Will Hines. Like, yeah. Anthony King, Ronan, like, all these people.

[A]

Who had this edit, all of that.

[B]

Who had this effect on us were all in the show.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Take it out, please. Yeah. So love it. Need it again. Our lives are very similar because with Crashing, I was like, one of the reasons Judd wanted to do Crashing was he said, if there's great comics that don't have their own show, we could do an episode just about them. And I was like, oh, yeah. We. The show kind of went a different direction, but we got to cast a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah. You also worked with. I think you. Sloven worked on your show too, right? Sloven was on ours too.

[A]

He did. Gotta have Eric Sloven.

[B]

Gotta, got to.

[A]

I always think about how his wife is. What's his wife's name?

[B]

Amy Ryan.

[A]

Cuz she's incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And whenever we see her, I love.

[B]

Them as a couple so much.

[A]

I've never seen them as a couple, but I. We watch the Office kind of all the time, and I'm always like, I can't believe this is no disrespect to Eric, but she's so magical. I'm like, I can't believe she's not married to, like, George Clooney or something. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, she just, like, literally, I feel like there's a movie where she is Married to George Clooney.

[A]

Is there wonder.

[B]

She's just like.

[A]

That's what I mean. She's just like one of the grapes.

[B]

One of the greats.

[A]

And so funny. So funny.

[B]

But they're great.

[A]

I believe it. Yeah. I hope that didn't come out like I was like, this bum. Because Eric is a delight, an absolute delight. Shifting gears ever so slightly. Have you ever seen a ghost?

[B]

No.

[A]

Are you sure? Would you like to? No. I wouldn't either. What about. This is pretty open ended, but has anything in your life happened that you can't explain that sort of defies the laws of reason, or it just remains confusing to you? A couple examples would be certainly a ghost, a ufo, an alien. You went to a psychic and they told you this, this or this. Anything unexplainable and no is fine. Or synchronicity.

[B]

Oh. I mean, I do feel. I don't have an example, but I feel like some synchronicities. I'm very aware of synchronicity and love when it happens.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

But I can't think of one.

[A]

No, I wouldn't ask you to.

[B]

But like, they.

[A]

But they're like breadcrumbs. They're like, we must be on the right path.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Speaking of God, what happened last night? They happen so often to Val and I as a couple. Not to say we're like this magical pixie couple, but we sort of are. How annoying. But, like, we'll be talking about. It has to be something really obscure. Like T ball isn't obscure enough, but let's say it's T ball. Like, we have a long conversation about T ball. And then that night we're on my YouTube, which of course is all like weird mystical stuff and religious lectures and stuff. She's like, what's that one? And I click on it and the guy will talk about T ball for like five minutes.

[B]

And we're like, that's nuts.

[A]

And I'm like, val, you. That just happened two nights ago. I'm like, you picked it. Like, that's so. I'm actually being more excited than I even am in the moment. Because I'm just like, that's just how it goes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you? And you're. By the way, this isn't like, I'm not trying to get it dirt or anything. I'm interested in your relationship. Aren't you engaged?

[B]

I am engaged.

[A]

Hey, congratulations. Are you super excited?

[B]

I am really excited. We haven't planned anything.

[A]

Great. Because, you know, it's trouble when everything's planned and, like, it's just like.

[B]

Like a business. The, like. Yeah, the wedding business. It's just like. Like, it's so exciting. And we're so excited when we. We keep, like, having, like, okay, what do we want to do? And it's just like, I think we're both so excited to be engaged also, and it's okay not to. There is a pressure. Just because it's like, oh, if you want to get married at a place that's actually like, a traditional wedding venue, it's like a year out. That's why there's this pressure. But I think at this point, it's only been a couple months that we've been engaged, so it's still just exciting.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know. How did you get engaged?

[B]

We got engaged, and I'm not. I might not tell this whole thing. We got engaged. She was in London.

[A]

You're like, well, David Blaine. Yeah, David Blaine wasn't there.

[B]

We were. We were in London. She was shooting. She's gonna be on the upcoming season of TED Lash, so.

[A]

Oh, fun.

[B]

Yeah. And we were in London and it happened there.

[A]

Cute. She waited until it turned six o' clock on Big Ben, and the ring was on the 6th, and it fell. It fell. And you went. She was like, just keep holding your hand like this. Okay. I don't know. And then Jason Sudeikis walked by and went, now, that's an engagement. And you're like, oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. And I couldn't believe she got him.

[A]

And she's like, he charged me $50,000. He did no friend rape.

[B]

He can't afford the wedding anymore.

[A]

But Val would say, were she here, a wedding planner will remove thine fear.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, a wedding planner is great.

[B]

We just, like, haven't. It's been, like, such a. Oh, don't.

[A]

Even worry about it, Summer.

[B]

But that is the.

[A]

You know what is reminding me of abs is. Is your approach to acting and creativity and. And Val is. Val got excited about planning not in the. What is the typical gender? Typical. Or whatever. Whatever it is. Like, oh, the lady can't wait to. She just, like. She kept saying, I'm gonna say this to you and see what you guys do with it. It's like she wanted to invite people to a space that looked like our love. So it was a very warm wedding. Yeah. Safe. It was kind of like, you just.

[B]

Want to create an experience that can celebrate this thing.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Feels like you guys, and you're inviting.

[A]

Them into it, and there really is something Just as primates, as mammals. It feels good. I'm just excited for you to invite other bodies into a space that feels like you guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then saying, hey, we love each other, and we just want you to hear that.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's.

[B]

This whole thing is special. And I. I really love weddings. And you also feel when you're at one that's good is, like, that good, and it doesn't have to be, like, exactly what I would want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In. In the way of, like, it's a good wedding. It's just like, wow, that feels like them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm so. I feel happy that I was there to witness that.

[A]

And once you're married, you might already understand this as having been in a relationship. But, like, especially when you're married, you go to another wedding, it's like,.02%, your wedding renewed. Because you hear the vows and you cry, and you're like, I still feel it. And then you're like. And there are other couples that are like, like, but that's wonderful. And sorry, but it seemed like you skipped over the engagement story, so why don't you tell them? I'm just kidding. I know you did. I know you did. That's okay. I'm excited. And please, you already said it. I have no advice. I'm just echoing what you already said, which is just enjoy being engaged.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's the rush?

[B]

I know.

[A]

Enjoy it.

[B]

The only rush is that it's. It is, like, also exciting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's like the rush.

[A]

In the same way that, like, Supermarket Sweep. There's a rush.

[B]

Yep. Love that one. I love revisiting that.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's on Netflix, I believe.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's. It's a hoot with the ham. Grab the ham. Grab the ham. Jon Ham, too. Just grab him if you see him. It's okay. He won't mind. So, nothing unexplainable other than synchronicities. Have you ever. Oh, it's okay. Zero People ask me sometimes. Fans will ask me questions that I ask, and they're like, what was that? And I go, I got nothing. I can't. I can't answer my own questions, so please don't feel bad. Have you ever almost died? That one's easier.

[B]

I would not. This would be top of mind, wouldn't it?

[A]

You would know sometimes. It's. When you were a kid.

[B]

I don't think I had a major.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Almost death.

[A]

That's all right.

[B]

Yeah. That makes me nervous.

[A]

Like, it's like, zero this isn't Final Destination.

[B]

No.

[A]

Most people have one really good one. Occasionally you get one. I remember Taylor Tomlinson's was like, I wish you hadn't told that story. Like, it was like.

[B]

Like a terrifying.

[A]

Like a scary one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're looking for like, I got caught by the riptide. That sort of. No, all good. All good. Well, you mentioned your cultural Judaism from the Tribe of Judah. Where are you now? Know that you're in the safest place possible. So it's an agenda. Free. But, like, I really mean now. Like Abby, today, here we are. Conscious. Alive. Alive at the same time. Fucking crazy alive at the same time as, like, Toby Maguire. Like, just like.

[B]

I haven't thought about that. That I might. That. That we are alive at the same.

[A]

Time as Toby Maguire. Just a tossed pillow. I had to. I couldn't think of a. Of a more dynamic answer. But, like, it is confusing and none of us are talking about it really. And I know there are easy answers, but there are easy answers on both sides of the spectrum. Where are you at when it comes to the meaning of life? One way at it is, do you think death is the end? Do you have any deity or any framing device? Just what comes to mind?

[B]

No. It's so nice to. I don't often stop and think about this. And I feel like. Like I'm not as spiritual right now as I feel like I am.

[A]

Interesting. I know that feeling.

[B]

And that might be also the way I'm feeling of, like, this. I'm just like, I don't have a lot of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even the vacation felt like I was intentionally putting time, like over here to do the vacation where it. But I feel like I. The rhythm of what I want my life to look like normally would have more space for that. And like, that just kind of means more quiet.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

For me. Yeah. I do feel really, again, culturally Jewish. I. I mean, I had a Bat Mitzvah as a kid and I do feel connected in that way. But not religious. I don't go to temple.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The thing about that that I miss and that I feel like would be nice is that community.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

But I never felt that. Never felt connected to that community as a kid.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If that makes sense. Like, I liked the gathering on high holidays and things like that. But it. Those actual people in that room didn't feel necessarily like the community.

[A]

Just want to say same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so weird thing.

[B]

It's almost like an aspirational community in that way. But I do think that that is why I Felt so connected to Alana. And we had this, like, shared culturalness to us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think.

[A]

But also a displaced feeling from it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, by the way, again, yanked from my own experience. It turns out the people. The large number of people that don't feel at home in the community that your parents probably feel at home. Those exiled people are a community, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We just don't have anywhere to meet.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're just around.

[A]

But you can find them. Then you find Alana and you're like. Like, Val, her parents are pastors and stuff. And, like, that was a huge reason why we bonded was we knew the same praise songs and we knew. But we also had that same sort of like, it's almost, but not quite. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you look for it together.

[B]

Yeah. But I guess for me, spiritually, I really feel most connected when I'm in nature.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, that is kind of, I think, taken the place of, like, whatever. That I don't even feel like I felt connected really religiously as a kid going to temple.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It felt like something I was supposed to do. And now I do feel most connected to whatever people would call God. I don't know if I. I really need to examine it a little more. I'm in a. I'm in a moment where I'm, like, not sure. But I think my spirituality really is nature.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, it's funny. Where did I get this? I'm forgetting the name of it. It's a Vedanta book. It doesn't matter. I mean, it does matter, but it also doesn't matter. The writer makes the point that God is just a word that means origin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. So it's been ruined, certainly over and over and over and will continue to be ruined. That's what we do with it. But when you're in nature, a couple things. One, silence is everybody. Every mystic, every teacher worth their salt will always say the same thing, which is like, there's no greater teacher than silence. And the more accustomed you are to being with yourself and being silent and being still. Great. And they all will say that nature is a great way to get into that. Because I don't know if you're the same as me. You seem like you are. Like, we're achievers. We like doing stuff, we like making stuff. And then underneath that drive, for me, it's a repurposing of anxiety into drive is a feeling that if I'm not producing, I'm not worthy. Like, I'm worthless. And the great thing About Nate. I don't really believe that. But that's still in there.

[B]

No, it's. Yeah, yeah, it's still in there.

[A]

We're working on it.

[B]

Critically know that that's not right, but that's right. Ye.

[A]

Exactly. And there was a time that I critically thought it was right.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

But nature. And I've said this a million. But Richard Rohr talks about how nature is beautiful and asks nothing from you. And there's. That's just one of the things that calms me down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, there's nothing sinister about this podcast. But you are doing my podcast. Like, we're having a nice chat, but you're doing my podcast. So I am asking something from you again, I hope that's not malicious or gross, but a sunset, Abby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's given you everything and it doesn't even care if you look at it. I mean, I could cry. That is just like so necessary. I think I'm gonna say to people like us.

[B]

And I, I also like. The secondary part of it is like. Well, I think of nature as like going out and looking at the sunset or I'm on a hike and you're. You're able to get away from like everything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But then going back to your. The synchronicity, like that also, I think is when I feel most. I mean, it's really just feeling a connection to this. So it's. When I'm in nature, I really feel connected. And we are part of nature. And so the synchronicities that happen. Maybe not. I mean, you could feel it with the T ball thing, but I think it's like the, the synchronicities that happen when you. Where you think of someone and they call you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or you run. You. You're. You thought of someone and you, You, You. You go out and you. You're running an errand and like, you see them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, thing, like energetically. That also feels like the secondary part of like the nature where I feel connected, where I'm like, okay, so like there. That's bigger than like the energy of it.

[A]

That's right. You're not isolated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the whole point. Everybody knows I'm going to say this, but religion breaks down to re. Like to do it again. Lygio comes from the same word for ligament. So to reconnect. So when you're in nature, you see it. You see this non resisting thing. Like, I know it's an extreme example, but in a forest fire, the trees aren't like, oh, no, no, no, no, there's just kind of like. It's just kind of doing what it does, including living and dying. Same with animals dying, by the way. They don't go, like, what about my things? They just kind of go. I've been with my cat. When it dies, it just sort of, like, goes. And there's something connecting and soothing to go. Like. Even though we have these highly developed frontal lobes that give us this, like, different perspective. Yeah, you're that.

[B]

Yeah, you're.

[A]

You're that. Like, when I look at the stars, you're that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not what so many of us grew up thinking, which is like. Like, you're this thing that was placed in this world that, like, walks around and explores it. Like an astronaut.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You are a product of it. You're an extension of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In fact, you're a linchpin holding it all together. And even your death is appropriate in the wholeness of it. Like, because it's not about Abby and it's not about Pete. It's about this one life. So, I mean, you don't need my validation. But I think that's beautiful.

[B]

I also. In the last. Yeah, maybe last year, but I read that the Overstory. It's just beautiful for me. Richard Powers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's a beautiful, beautiful book about trees, connectivity.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Well, one of the favorite. My favorite books I've ever read.

[A]

Overstory.

[B]

The Overstory.

[A]

Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna put my phone here.

[B]

Like, I'm big into trees.

[A]

Well, you should be. Abby, why are the most interesting things, the most boring things, like trees and the way that they use spores. The. So there's this book. Right.

[B]

They're fascinated. And they're all. It's like, all connect. Like, it's. Yeah.

[A]

And we're that way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So when you're thinking of your friend. I know we don't have the data for this. Although some would say we do have the data for this. There's. Interesting. I forget what it's called. I think it's called the Science Delusion, but it's called something different in America. Anyway, someone messages it to me. There's this British guy who talks about the mythology, meaning, the beliefs, the unquestioned beliefs of science, and one of them is things like if Abby thinks of somebody and then they call them. That's hogwash. And meaning we don't have the how would we measure?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And it's not yet agreed upon.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I think there. There will be a time when it is agreed upon or we'll go into another dark ages, who knows?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm actually not pessimistic. I just mean, like, that seems to be what's going on. Like, it's like, burn the libraries. You know what I mean? Not. I actually didn't even mean that in a fearful way. So I'm going to read that over story. But I think everything you need to know. And not to be too religious, but every time. Not every time. Often when people ask Jesus a question, he would say, look, look at the trees. He would say, look at the fruit of the tree. He would look at the birds. It's one of my favorite teachings on anxiety is he's like, look at the birds. They don't worry about where their food comes from because they know that they're part of a system.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Obviously you and I need to plan our lunch probably right around now, but. But the point remains the point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, this was a delight. Is. Is there any. Oh, I had one. League of Their Own question. How dare you. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Save that one for the end.

[A]

How dare you go back into my childhood. I'm just kidding. I was. How old was I when I came out? Doesn't matter. When you put on the uniform and you ran out on the field.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Emotional.

[B]

Yeah. Putting on, you know, so the pilot, we didn't wear them. You wore your like a practice uniform because it's like tryouts.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, even that felt emotional. Just like. Because there's a field of women in old timey practice gear. But putting on the Peaches uniform.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That just felt bizarre.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that made it feel very real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was a very formative film for me. And just. What are we doing?

[A]

We didn't get to this. What are we. I don't.

[B]

Yeah. You know, like.

[A]

Wait, do you identify as queer? Is that the right word? Yeah. Okay, so as a queer person, was that movie like. I mean, I'm not queer, but I watched that movie and Rosie, I'm dying. Like, I can't like any story, whether it's sexual identity or otherwise, about someone despite the outside world claiming their truth. Moonlight. I know it's another sexual one. It destroys me every time. But if you go like, I have to live authentically.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which, by the way, tribe mentions the three things that you need to be happy. One is you need to feel like you're good at your job. One is you need to feel connected to community. But the third one you might not guess is you need to feel authentic in your life. Of course, but. Of course, but, yeah, but how many people do you know that maybe you went to high school with and you talk to them and they sound like they're doing some sort of character?

[B]

I know. I feel like a lot of people don't feel that.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's huge. So that, so tell. Is there a little bit we're sort of at the time, if you have to go, I completely understand. And that's, that's not passive aggressive. Like if you want to end this and everyone boo. But I did forget to ask about that. And I'm very interested in like sexual identity. A League of Their Own, your own coming out, all that sort of stuff. Where does that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, vibe. When I watched that movie and did not in Naya came out in 92, I did not really clock that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's also not over for yourself. Well, for myself. No. At all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't come into my sexuality until I was in my early 30s.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, it truly, like, was not surprised.

[A]

I'm sorry. Again, even as a straight person, it wasn't until my early 30s that I was like, what do I actually like? It turns out it's women.

[B]

But like, like I just was. Yeah. Like, I didn't, I wasn't like, I wasn't ever against it. And I had like, thought I, I had like, I had been like, maybe I like, should I like try to like hook up with girls? And I was like, I don't think I'm in. Like, I truly was not. I don't know. And I went to art school. I really feel like it was a missed opportunity, you know, but whatever. But yeah, I, I, it so it just. I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also I think the generation. I'm 38. Like, I just, I'm like, there was like two out people. Maybe in my high school. It was like we just grew up in a time where that was like no content about Will and Grace.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then like Ellen, like Ellen, like, truly, like, there's nothing.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So.

[A]

And Ellen was a big deal. Remember when we were all like, she's gay.

[B]

Huge deal.

[A]

Big deal.

[B]

And Rosie wasn't out when this film was made. And her character is not overtly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gay at all. Talks about a boyfriend and then like throws his, throws his picture out the, out the window because he doesn't treat her well.

[A]

Right. Not because this is. I'm living a lie.

[B]

No, it was not. But it is like Considered. Not considered, but it is sort of like, was this film that queer people love? Because it's just about. I think that any story that's about a group of people that are like this, like, kind of like they're outsiders and they found each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Any story where people have, like, found their community.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Is very.

[A]

Especially in the 40s. What, you're not supposed to do it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that that's why it was. So it's like a queer film, but it's not queer at all. Yeah, but. So that was this. This. That was part of. At least this reimagining was like, this community. Well, that league, the All American Girls League, which is like, where the Peaches are, which is only half of the show version, was really queer. A lot of women on that league were queer. Doing the research, we found out, like, we found more and more that that was the case. And that generation, this generation that we are exploring in the show version is about a generation of women playing baseball. So it's not just about the white women or the white passing women that were allowed to be on this league. It's about what happens when that door closes for women of color who were fucking great at baseball. Where. Where did they play? And so we're trying to tell a lot of stories, a lot of queer stories, too. And so I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I guess, I mean, I. Since I realized this about myself, I've put it into everything I can just because I put everything else about myself into stuff. So Broad City, I think more than league, is like, a more true version of my experience. So, like, in the fourth season of Broad City, Abby meets a girl because she smashes her face. She, like, faints and smashes her face, which did happen to me, too. I have a scar on my nose. And at the hospital, this is not true, but at the hospital, like, meet the doctor, she, like, asks out because she's like, wait, the only reason I'm not asking her out is because she's a woman. But, like, I'm attracted her. And that was exactly what it felt like for me, really, where I was like, wait, I'm, like, into this person, but they're a girl. Like, they were a guy who'd asked them out. I was very much into that at the moment. Like, very much like Vogue. Like, just, like, not in love with you, but, like, you want to get a drink? And I felt like the only reason I'm not doing that is because she's A woman. Like, that's fucked up. So let me, like, let me ask her out and see what happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that would happen in irl. Yeah.

[A]

And they said, yes, this person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then how did that go?

[B]

It went great for a while. And then.

[A]

So you dated that person.

[B]

Yeah. And then it didn't. You know, and that is also, like, I'm so, again, sort of into what you were talking about of, like, that. Those moments in your life where you feel like they're like, the worst. Like, me being broken up with and, like, heartbroken. After that relationship, I was devastated. It was a new. And I. It was so essential. That too. Like, I'm so happy that happened.

[A]

They broke up with you.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I. It was terrible.

[A]

What was their name?

[B]

Going there, like, it was such a. That was like. That's what my book is about, in part. About just, like, whoa. Figuring this out about myself. That I do. I do also. Like, I'm marrying a woman, but I'm like, I still would, I guess, if I were to label myself more in the. Label it. I know I identify as queer, but I would be bisexual.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, wow, I missed out on, like, half the population here. And I don't know, the way that all went down. And I was, like, devastated and heartbroken. It was so essential to who I am now. So I'm like, yep, it's all part of it.

[A]

It's the forest again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It needed to. It needed to burn.

[B]

It needed to burn. And then, like, regrow. And now I'm like, wow. Yeah.

[A]

Yep. Yep. You are nature. Yep. That's pretty wild. I love that. And I'm excited for you. I think you're gonna like being married.

[B]

I like being married. Me, too.

[A]

It's fun. But it's a girl, right? Are you worried about cooties? I'm just kidding.

[B]

Yeah. We haven't kissed yet, so I'm not sure.

[A]

Like, I don't know. I had to get over that. When you're raised your whole life, girls, cooties. Girls cooties. Let me ask you the final question.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Can you tell me a time in your life that you laughed really, really, really, really hard? Maybe you were on drugs. Maybe someone farted. Maybe someone fell down. These are the. These are the orphans.

[B]

Oh, I have one. This is. I. Yeah. Okay, so I'll try to make this quick. So I was in high school, and my one two of my best friends, Sam and Jess, we were volunteering to skip. It's like Halloween. And we were Volunteering to scare kids on, like, a trail. Like, I don't know why. It was like, they, like, needed people to, like, there was like, a. Like, a haunted trail in, like, this, like, community center. They, like, needed people to, like, volunteer to, like, be the people that, like, scared people. Anyway, we were doing that, and then we also simultaneously were teens and were like, there's a party tonight. We need to leave. And so we'd committed to volunteering, and then we're sneaking out also, like, what were we volunteering? It wasn't like a charity. It was like a scare. Kid. You scared.

[A]

You were a scare group.

[B]

Anyway, so we were like, we gotta sneak out of this trail to go to the party we really wanted to go to.

[A]

Like, are you dressed as ghouls?

[B]

We had, like, masks and wigs. And I think we were going to my house after to change. Anyway, so we're running away from the trail, like, trying to be, like, sly about it. And we finally. I was in the front because I was pretty fast. I was in the front, and we were like. It was like, from trail into parking lot. Like, pavement change. Like, so, like, the, like, blacktop of the. Of the parking lot, like, was like a dip in the.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Anyway, sprinting, and we're, like, looking back and, like, we made it. We made it. I trip over the, like, pavement. Go down so hard. Okay. Like. Like, like full, like, down on the pavement. And Jess is right on my tail. And so she. She falls and on over me. Like, trips on me. And then Sam, like, made it out clear. But we were. We were dying, like, because we'd been trying to get away quietly and quickly and truly, like, hurt ourselves so much. Leaving this volunteer, like, Halloween, like, it was nuts and, like, really hurt ourselves. And it was one of those moments as a teenager where I've never laughed harder.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And like, like, fully had, like, blood. Like, blood, like, skinned, like, hurt. Every.

[A]

Which was very fitting for the holiday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Looked even scary.

[B]

It was so messy.

[A]

And you had a wig on. It was like, that makes it.

[B]

Yeah, it was like. Like, I think I. I think I was. Had a mask. So I, like, took the mask off. But, like, we were carrying, like, the shit that we had, like, dressed up as. Yeah. It was so messy.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, I love that. That's what I'm gonna remember. It also reminded me of a bit I used to have where it was, like, a lot of people get hit by cars on Halloween, which is obviously sad. And it also has to be awkward, too, because for a moment, you're like, either they're really hurt or. That's a great costume.

[B]

Great. Like in action costume. My God.

[A]

It seems to have some sort of pump action.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. That looks.

[B]

It looks so real.

[A]

Abs. Thank you so much. I was very excited for this. I'm really glad you so fun.

[B]

It made me, like, think about a lot of things.

[A]

I'm glad it got toasty in here. We're gonna have to run that AC next time. You couldn't find. Oh, no, no. That wasn't me being passive aggressive like Katie. You should have known. Well, thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much. Oh, I love Mitchell's versus the machines. I actually think, like, it was, like, an Oscar worthy movie. I love it.

[B]

They killed it.

[A]

They killed it. And your performance is great in it.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So I'm excited. We have the guests say the catchphrase, which is keep it crispy. So in a moment, I'm gonna ask you to say, keep it crispy. Did you do an affectation on your voice? Not really. So I.

[B]

Sometimes I go a little bit like, kid.

[A]

Yeah. A little younger. Skew younger. I don't know why I felt the need to finish that sentence for you. And I apologize.

[B]

You knew where I was headed.

[A]

But. So we'll have it as your character, but also as you.

[B]

It's the same voice.

[A]

It's the same voice, but because it is technically your character. I owe you a sag.

[B]

Yes. This will be as Katie.

[A]

That's right. Would you say keep it crispy just to close us out?

[B]

Yeah, keep it crispy.

[A]

I mean, great voice.

[B]

Keep it crispy. Couple options there.