Billy Gardell

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Billy Gardell

Date: November 19, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this deeply heartfelt and hilarious episode, Pete Holmes welcomes stand-up comic and actor Billy Gardell (Mike & Molly, Bob Hearts Abishola) for a rich conversation about comedy, mentorship, family, vulnerability, healing old wounds, and what it means to build a good life. With trademark warmth and Pittsburgh candor, Gardell shares wisdom gleaned from showbiz, struggles with addiction, parenthood, generational trauma, and the journey towards self-acceptance. Expect big laughs, surprising emotion, honest talk about sobriety, and a masterclass in what truly matters—service, connection, and kindness.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pittsburgh Roots, Comedy, and Authenticity

• Pittsburgh’s unique mix: Billy explains, “It’s the perfect Mason Dixon line for the east coast and the Midwest because we have sarcasm, but it’s not cruel. And so I kind of like that kind of humor.” (07:28)
• On working-class values: “It’s that rust belt thing… look out for your neighbor, work hard, put the project first, not yourself. That’s Pittsburgh, Philly, Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo…” (09:05)
• Comedy’s role: Both agree that authenticity is key to great stand-up. Gardell says, “To young comics...Be kind. Not a lot of that going on.” (09:42)

Addiction, Sobriety, and Parenting with Vulnerability

• Billy on not drinking: “I haven’t drank in about 17 years. My wife put that in a suggestion box...it’s the best thing I ever did. For me. And I have talks with my son about that all the time.” (10:10)
• Advice to kids: “The most powerful word in your vocabulary is no.” (11:30)
• Generational growth: “I think this generation’s a little smarter than we were… They have all the freak outs we had in adolescence...and then you add social media, politics, the environment. These kids are terrified.” (13:35)

The Importance of Mentorship and Kindness

• Mentors matter: “Find a mentor you can trust… Laughter knows its place. It’s at the procession of the problem. So once you talk through something, then you can laugh at it.” (17:35)
• Choosing your circle: “You’re gonna be the five people you hang out with. Be careful what you hang around… You hang around loyalty, kindness, someone you can be vulnerable around…you grow.” (15:51)

Vulnerability and Nonviolent Communication

• Male vulnerability: Pete: “Men need people they can be vulnerable with, not perform for. I’ll sit down with a guy and say, ‘What are you scared of?’” (17:20)
• On honest connection: Gardell: “All the great standups are guys that can reveal a truth and how they got through it…” (16:36)
• Nonviolent communication: Pete explains the method: “Instead of guessing, you ask them, ‘Is that the issue? What is the feeling, and what was the need that wasn’t being met?’” (19:15)

Healing Old Wounds & Creative Outlets

• Trains as therapy: Billy recounts building a model train set with his son to “refix that hole” left by a destroyed childhood train. “I like. It’s therapeutic.” (15:09)
• The healing power of art: “I found the drama department in high school...it was the first group of kids on campus not locked into a thing...I was home.” (24:57)
• Guidance from his dad: “My dad wanted to be an artist...his thing was, just apply your work ethic to it…put your time and study the films that you want to…From that, you find your own voice.” (26:13)

Humility, Service, and Redefining Success

• Post-TV humility: On returning to stand-up: “I had to remember how to suck when I came back. I took three years off…” (35:34)
• The ‘rocket ship’ sitcom: On Mike and Molly: “Everybody was 40 when we hit…no one wandering around like ‘I’m gonna need a velvet hat with green M&M’s.’…We got insurance, good parking, coffee’s free. Nobody screw this up.” (36:05)
• Finding fulfillment: “At the beginning of my career, it was look at me, look at me, I needed validation. But the best thing is service…That’s where you find peace.” (40:00)

Social Media, Addiction, and Raising Kids

• On the internet’s toxicity: “I wade out into the internet like an old guy at a pool. Like, ‘That’s cold. I’m going back.’ …I root for the younger generation—these kids are terrified.” (12:36)
• Social media as dopamine: “They don’t call you customers, they call you users. Same thing dealers do.” (37:11)
• Setting structure: “I tried to build routines for my son…there has to be some structure away from that thing [the phone].” (37:15)

Family, Repair, and the Second Conversation

• Modeling repair for kids: Pete shares a moment where he apologized for losing his cool, and Billy responds: “My son and I developed this thing called the second conversation…what I said was right, the way I said it was wrong…That’s more powerful to a child than anything.” (55:04)
• On fear and love in parenthood: “When you have a child that is the biggest cocktail of fear and love that you’re ever going to experience…But what you have to look through that fear at, is the gift that I get to love something so unconditionally.” (57:32)
• Job isn't identity: “My treasures at my house. My wife and kid are at my house…When you have something more important than your job, your job doesn’t define you.” (58:03)

Recovery, Food, and Self-Love

• Food addiction: “Some people don’t understand: food addiction is as dangerous as any other addiction. If you suffer with that one, it’s a secretive thing, it’s ugly.” (64:07)
• Learning self-compassion: “She said, treat yourself with 15% of the love you have for your son. That unlocked me. I was like, I can get healthy.” (65:40)
• Feelings aren’t facts: “Feelings aren’t facts. They’re time periods. That’s all they are. And this too, shall pass.” (66:38)

On AI, Technology, and Remaining Human

• Don’t outsource your life: “I don’t want AI to tell me what kind of shirt I like or music I like. I want to go discover those things…The point was not the result, the point was finding out what I like.” (71:03)
• Courage to change: “The real richness of life is going, ‘help.’ Getting help. Helping yourself…” (72:06)

Spirituality and Mentorship

• God, faith, and welcoming mystery: “My God is just unconditional love…there’s this thing that might appear if sought, in different ways to different people, the way they need it to appear to them. That gives me peace.” (91:31)
• On Richard Rohr’s 'Breathing Under Water': “That book made me go, if this works for someone to go to Mass…that’s none of my business.” (92:39)
• Learning from wisdom figures: “When you find a great mentor and you feel it’s safe to learn, there’s nothing better on Earth.” (99:03)

The Value of Individuality in Comedy and Life

• Your own noise: “We all have the same notes…It’s how you play your note. That gave me the freedom to go, I could just talk like me.” (87:09)
• Finding your audience: “If you’re being yourself, you’ll have supply and demand covered. You’re gonna find your audience.” (88:44)
• Conan’s triangle metaphor: “If you keep doing the same thing, someone will go, what is that? Let’s go check that out.” (89:15)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Billy Gardell: “You want a superpower? Be kind.” (09:42)
• On male vulnerability:
  Pete Holmes: “Men need people...that they can not perform for and be vulnerable to. I’ll sit down with a guy and say, 'What are you scared of?'” (17:20)
• On raising resilient kids:
  Gardell: “Your child will watch you more than listen to you. They watch our habits, our reactions; that is the most powerful thing.” (53:26)
• On sobriety & career:
  “When you have low self worth, no matter what you do, you think you either don’t deserve it and so subconsciously you try to destroy it. You don’t pay attention to it…you numb it out with booze or gambling or food…And at some point, you have to surrender and go, I need to ask for help.” (47:02)
• The two wolves inside:
  “The Cherokee sentence…which one wins? The one you feed. So what you’re feeding your eyes, your ears and your heart is everything about what you’re going to become.” (48:32)
• Simple wisdom:
  “If you’re feeling lost, feed the dog.” (Matt McCarthy, relayed by Billy, 48:30)
• Mercy:
  Pete Holmes: “Forgiveness acknowledges that something bad happened. But mercy…that’s Jedi level …that’s your robe.” (82:01)
• Billy’s 29 books for his son:
  “I bought him 29 books that changed my life…one day when I’m gone, those are going to be with you forever…Either way, I’m right there on your shelf.” (51:23)
• On true fulfillment:
  “Service…immediately lowers your blood pressure. You immediately feel dignity, empathy…To me, that’s a version of God.” (40:26)
• On spiritual seekers:
  Pete: “Wizards are real. They walk amongst us and they go like Frodo.” (100:34)
• On forgiveness:
  Gardell: “Forgiveness is for us. It’s not for them…It astounds me that it works every time. Even when I think there’s no way this can work. It does.” (81:44)

---

Key Segment Timestamps

• [06:31] – Pete and Billy dive in, riffing on comedy mics and performance style
• [09:40] – Kindness as the ultimate rebellion in comedy
• [10:10] – Billy discusses his sobriety and parenting philosophy
• [13:35] – Navigating technology, adolescence, and the internet as a Gen X parent
• [15:09] – Healing father wounds via model trains and family legacy
• [17:20] – Male vulnerability and why men need spaces to be real
• [19:15] – Nonviolent communication: sharing experience versus opinion
• [24:57] – Drama club as safe haven for misfits; the origins of performance
• [35:34] – Returning to stand-up post-sitcom, and the humility it brings
• [40:00] – Finding peace through service, not validation
• [48:32] – The “two wolves” parable and self-mastery
• [55:04] – Repairing with children: the “second conversation”
• [64:07] – The hidden nature of food addiction and healing through self-love
• [66:38] – Feelings aren’t facts—they pass
• [71:03] – Real growth comes from not letting AI, tech, or commerce define you
• [82:01] – On forgiveness, mercy, and living with an open heart
• [91:31] – What “God” means to Billy, the nature of faith, and spiritual seeking
• [99:03] – The gift of mentorship, learning from wisdom figures in life
• [100:34] – Pete on “wizards” and real-life, everyday magic

---

Final Thoughts

This episode resonates with humor, kindness, and authenticity—a masterclass in breaking cycles, living present, and reclaiming a sense of wholeness no matter what life throws your way. Billy Gardell and Pete Holmes create a safe space to talk about real transformation, the hard work of recovery and self-betterment, and raising the next generation with love and vulnerability. You'll laugh, you may cry, and—most importantly—you'll be reminded of the healing, connective power of comedy, service, and being unashamedly yourself.

Pete’s Sign-Off:
“Everything we’ve been talking about today is crispy.”
Billy’s Parting Words:
“Keep it crispy.”

---

“Your child will watch you more than listen to you. That’s the goal.” — Billy Gardell, [53:26]

Transcript

[Billy Gardell]

It's morning in new york. Hey, everybody, I'm Andy Patinkin.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm Kathryn Grody.

[Billy Gardell]

And we have a new podcast. It's called don't listen to us. Many of you have asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't listen to us. Our take it or leave it advice.

[Billy Gardell]

Show is out every Wednesday, premiering October 15th. A Lemonada Media original.

[Pete Holmes]

Lemonada.

[Billy Gardell]

You made it weird. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? This is one of my all time favorite episodes ever. I'm calling it, I mean it. Matt McCarthy, my dear friend who just was on the show introduced me to Billy Gardell, who you may know from Mike and Molly. He was also on. Bob loves Abishola and other wonderful things and he's incredible. And I just wasn't prepared for the rich, delightful, hilarious goodness that you're about to hopefully enjoy as much as I did. So I'm glad you're here. I'm so glad Billy took the time to come in. It's. It's a smash. I love it. I love it so much. So, as I always say, let's get to it as quickly as possible. I'm just opening up my own tour dates here at Largo on December 5th here in Los Angeles, followed by Milwaukee, Brea, San Francisco, North Carolina, South Carolina, Miami. What happened to my voice just then? Michigan, Madison, Wisconsin and Denver, Colorado. All of those tour dates are available right now on petehomes.com. hope you can be there. And in the meantime, enjoy my chat with my new friend, the incredible Billy Gardell. So glad you're here. Get into it. You know that one friend you got that's like, yeah, I'd get a bidet, but I don't need one. Wake up. I thought I didn't need a bidet and then I got a tushy. And let me tell you, it is an absolute game changer. I'm serious. If you had poop on your hand, would you just wipe it with paper and call it a day? No. You want to power wash that, like, leaves off your driveway. I installed mine in about 10 minutes, no plumbing degree required, and it instantly made my bathroom feel like a spa that also cares about my butt's feelings. The clean, way better than toilet paper. Smoother, fresher. And honestly, it's like a little life upgrade I didn't know I needed. It's sleek, it's easy to use, and it fits perfectly with my bathroom vibe. This is everyday luxury for your, you know, your gravy spout. Can we say that that's disgusting? Listen, the A hole is only a naughty word if you're still wiping with paper. Give the gift of daily dignity this holiday season with Tushy, the bidet that uses nothing but fresh water to keep things pristine while saving you 80% on toilet paper. Your future self will thank you and so will your plumbing for For a limited time, get 10% off your first bidet. [e-mail] with promo code weirdo. That's 10% [e-mail], code weirdo. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Element lmnt. Healthy hydration isn't just about drinking water. It's about drinking water plus electrolytes, which makes sense. You lose both water and sodium when you sweat, so both need to be replaced. And Element does this deliciously easily with no bs, no sugar. Five calories won't break a fat and helps prevent those muscle cramps, headaches and energy dips that come with dehydration. So many electrolyte drinks have tons of crap in them. Sugar, tons of sugar. As much sugar as a can of soda. It's ridiculous. But Element has none of that. It's the optimum ratio of sodium, magnesium and potassium for health performance and energy. I start every day with my favorite flavor, which is lemonade salt. Close second watermelon salt. And this floods every cell in my body with optimum hydration and jump starts my day. It's amazing before or after a workout. It's also just great when you're fasting or trying not to snack late at night because it's delicious and it fills your body with what it's craving, which is so often, in my case, salt. So get a free sample pack of Element. Their most popular flavors, citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt and orange salt. Two sticks of each flavor with any purchase when you use promo code weird go to support this show. Go to Support your body drinklmnt.com weird and get your free sample pack with any purchase promo code weird. That's drinklmnt.com weird I am thrilled that this episode is brought to us by our friends at Cachava because we worked with them a few years ago and I've literally had a cachava every day in that course of those years. I'm obsessed. It is a superfood shake that has not just protein, it has everything. And we all know it's hard to eat healthy. You go grocery Shopping with the full intent to make something good and nutritious and delicious. And then you're so wiped from shopping that you just order takeout. I've done this and that's why I love cachava. It's hard getting enough protein as a mostly vegan person. And cachava makes it so easy and so delicious. It's insanely tasty. It's a whole body meal made from 85 plus superfoods. We're talking nutrients and plant based ingredients. Gives me all day energy, helps me get have my digestion work smoothly with fiber and probiotics, supports muscles and metabolism with protein and electrolytes, even helps my brain and my immune system stay sharp. I'm currently on a chai kick because it's kind of got a cozy fall vibe to the flavor. But they have six incredible flavors. Chocolate, vanilla, chai matcha, coconut, acai and strawberry, which I'm also currently obsessed with. I usually toss in some greens, maybe a little peanut butter, maybe some almond milk and give it a shake. But it's also just good in water so I travel with it and I'll drink one on an airplane. Just shake it up and boom. I didn't eat some terrible in flight meal and compromise everything I believe about nutrition. So no artificial stuff, no gluten, no soy, no weird additives, just real food. Your future self will thank you. Go to kachava.com and use code weirdo at checkout for 15% off your next order. That's Kachava K A C-H-A-V A.com, use code weirdo for 15% off.

[Billy Gardell]

It's like being at home.

[Pete Holmes]

You have mics in your home? No, you just mean as a performer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you can do this. Hello. Yeah, all that.

[Billy Gardell]

Right. Whisper loud. Whisper.

[Pete Holmes]

And nobody does it.

[Billy Gardell]

No, no. Everybody just screams like they're a DJ at a strip club. It's the new wave. Just yell and be loud. That's how that works.

[Pete Holmes]

It's true. I have to give myself that note, by the way.

[Billy Gardell]

We're rolling.

[Pete Holmes]

If that's okay. We just jump right in.

[Billy Gardell]

That's okay. Great.

[Pete Holmes]

My favorite part of comed in cards is watching them order. So we like to catch that moment of.

[Billy Gardell]

Not as a trick, the spontaneity.

[Pete Holmes]

But we'll take it out if you want. We can start here if you want. Start here if you want.

[Billy Gardell]

We're all good.

[Pete Holmes]

Start here if you want.

[Billy Gardell]

Whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

You seem like a real piece of Billy.

[Billy Gardell]

We got 82 minutes left. We're good. Let's just kill time. I love that.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, the sense I get from you immediately. Maybe I consider Pittsburgh east coast, even though it's kind of Midwest.

[Billy Gardell]

It's the perfect Mason Dixon line for the east coast and the Midwest because we have sarcasm, but it's not cruel. And so I kind of like that kind of humor. That's my favorite thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Me, too. Yeah. We were just there.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Literally, I was there two nights ago. Like, we just got home. Well, no, yesterday.

[Billy Gardell]

Where were you playing?

[Pete Holmes]

The improv.

[Billy Gardell]

Okay. The Waterfront.

[Pete Holmes]

And I love it.

[Billy Gardell]

Sure. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We go there every year.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have these stories. I don't.

[Billy Gardell]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's actually kind of a. There was a humbling thing that happened last time I played Boston, which is where I'm from.

[Billy Gardell]

I've never done welder.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not. It's not easy.

[Billy Gardell]

Well, the other thing was I. For. When I was on television, that was a thing we used to watch before it happened, before it became Wayne's World. I. No, but I. Public access. I would always get on the Patriots and how much I didn't like them. Yeah. That's not good for ticket sales in.

[Pete Holmes]

Boston, but there's a lot.

[Billy Gardell]

Hold a grudge.

[Pete Holmes]

You just need a good blast. On my mailing list, I feel like a lot of the softer, gentler, more. I don't know how to put it. But I'm not a Patriots fan, though.

[Billy Gardell]

Great food, great city, clean city, great seafood, and enjoyed all that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I was there, I told all these stories about being a dad, and they have a certain. All I want to say is I don't really think of myself as a person from Boston. And then when I was in Boston, all of these stories that really have a lot to do with how I parent, which has a lot to do with how I really am. Deep down, we're doing better than other places. And I walked off stage and I was like, oh, I am from Boston. Like, it was weird.

[Billy Gardell]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But those same stories do really well in Pittsburgh.

[Billy Gardell]

Well, it's the working class. It's that rust belt thing that, you know, that look out for your neighbor, work hard, you know, put the project first, not yourself. All those little things that I learned in Pittsburgh, that's. That's Pittsburgh, Philly, Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo. Like, it's.

[Pete Holmes]

And those are all good comedy cities.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. It's the salt of the earth people. That's who I like.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something about it.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't. I can't if I took a stab at what it was, I would just sound like a coastal la.

[Billy Gardell]

I think it's just authenticity and it's the ability to, you know, to keep each other, each other right sized without being cruel, I think is what it is.

[Pete Holmes]

And is that a role of comedy, do you think?

[Billy Gardell]

I don't know if it's the role of everybody's comedy, but it's the role of mine. I mean, you know, I tell young comics now, you want to be a punk rocker, you want to be a rebel, be kind. Oh, wow. Not a lot of that going on.

[Pete Holmes]

That's so funny. And, you know, I'm prepping this for my daughter. I really, I don't drink and I, I don't want to. I want to play it cool. But I, I do want to say to my girl when she's older, if you want a superpower, just maybe just don't drink until you're 25. Like that.

[Billy Gardell]

As long as you can hold off. Yeah, I don't. I haven't drank in about 17 years.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Billy Gardell]

My wife put that in a suggestion box. And how did she do that? She. She's a smart lady. She taught me how to impersonate a human being. But it's the best thing I ever did. And for me, for me, for my choice. And I have talks with my son about that all the time. And I think, you know, he went away to. And you have to learn the hard way, you know, is that drinking fireballs and whatever and feeling sick. And I think he finally is getting it. And I think this generation's a little smarter than we were. Like, we were having drinks at 9 to go out at 10. They're usually home by 10, hitting the bong and watching YouTube, which is probably a better way to go. I think it's probably.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not ideal, but it is better.

[Billy Gardell]

I think it's better.

[Pete Holmes]

I saw a guy, Dr. Amen, he has these clinics where he scans your brain. It doesn't matter. It's not a plug. It's just who he is. I actually, I did it one of those. Anyway, who cares? I guess I have a lot of energy at whatever. It's all burning off. Just the atmosphere burning off. I'm going to calm down. But he was saying he's so against drinking before 25. This is just brain science.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not sobriety, not any program. But he was like, I don't think kids should go to college. That's how against drinking is. Because he's like the damage. You're doing is like worse than, Than the knowledge.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. And I told my son before he went, man, I said the most powerful word in your vocabulary is no.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right.

[Billy Gardell]

Okay. And you have to learn to be able to say that instead of people pleasing or putting yourself in a position that you don't want to be in. And I said, the first time you say no, they'll tease you. Second time, they'll tease you a little less. But by the third time they go no. When that guy says no, he means it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And I go, that's the most powerful thing you can have in your vocabulary period.

[Pete Holmes]

We could just end now. I really, I mean, it would be more viral to put out a 45 second podcast. Like, it would be like, what happened? Did he walk off?

[Billy Gardell]

I'm proud of you for doing it. I can't do it.

[Pete Holmes]

What? Pods.

[Billy Gardell]

No, they. I don't know what I'm doing. I was.

[Pete Holmes]

You're doing great.

[Billy Gardell]

I was on TV for the longest time and then TV went away and now it's like starting over, which is kind of fun. That has a Gen X thing to it, which I like.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean?

[Billy Gardell]

Well, it's got that, you know, all right. We were in a band. The band was good. The band's broken up. Like, all right. I still can play guitar, so that's what I do now. And so I'm trying to enter into this. I literally, you can call it eccentric or whatever, old genic, whatever. I ignored the Internet. A good part of my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

I'm actually proud of that. I did, I did, I did emails, text and music. That was basically what I was doing. That was it. And so as I came off of my show and started to do stand up again, the whole world had shifted and I made myself unrecognizable, which was a great business move. But what I did was I've kind of re. Embraced just the creativity of it. And that's why I'm trying to do that. And I'm trying to be smart about where I go and, and what things I become a part of. But I, I, it's all new to me. I'm still horrified by ugly things. Like, I wade out into the Internet like an old guy at a pool. Like, that's cold. I'm going back. It's too much for me. I can't imagine what it's done to our. Which is a reason I kind of defend them. I root for them because they have all the freak outs we had in adolescence, you Know, who am I going to be, who am I going to love? All that stuff. And then you had social media, you had politics, you had the environment. These kids are terrified.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And so I try to come at it like, you know, I'm rooting for you and if you need some advice and if I have it, I'll give it to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And I find that's a peaceful place for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's interesting. The young people are smart. I know we're just two old guys talking about the young people, but it's true.

[Billy Gardell]

No, I root some of them because I have one like you have one. Yeah. So I think it's our job to root for them.

[Pete Holmes]

I completely agree. This is very Mr. Rogers. And I'm not just saying it because you're a sweater in Pittsburgh.

[Billy Gardell]

I swear. And listen, at this rate, I wear a sweater 24 hours a day anyway. I just freeze. I will toss it from one hand to the other and snap.

[Pete Holmes]

Do it. There's a trolley on the way and there's a traffic sign. I love Mr. Roger. What's that?

[Billy Gardell]

I said I am a train guy at Christmas. Are you? I got the whole thing. Yeah. I actually have a Mr. Rogers trolley there now you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God. Tell me the value. You must be dying to tell somebody how much money you've sunk into your train zone. You must be dying just own it.

[Billy Gardell]

It's great. I probably put about, I don't know, about five grand into it, which is moderate compared to some of these guys. But that's over the years. And I had a dear friend who was a cameraman on my Kamali, who was a model railroad train guy. And when I was a kid, my grandfather and I, we did the thing where he got me like a $60 Tyco train and put it on a piece of wood and we put the grass over it. And then we nailed the track down so I could play with it year round. Then I had a drunken stepfather get mad at me. I was about 10 cuz I spilled some Kool Aid on his Florida gator shirt. And so he broke that board and that train that my grandfather and I made. So kind of to refix that hole way to a.

[Pete Holmes]

Like get revenge.

[Billy Gardell]

Well, yeah. Can we pause there and say petty, but.

[Pete Holmes]

But I still revenge on a child?

[Billy Gardell]

No, but. Well, he's a scumbag. But. But people are. There are scumbags out there. But my job is to not carry his mess with me. My job is to fix that hole. And so the way I did. That was. I built a pretty big layout in my own house, and I got to do that with my son. And my friend taught me how to do all the little nerdy stuff like aging the trains and the wheels, and I just. I like. It's therapeutic.

[Pete Holmes]

You've already. You've said 17 things that I'm just like. My heart is just full, and I feel a lot of love for you right now. It's beautiful.

[Billy Gardell]

Back at you. I like decent people.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this is good. Let's own it.

[Billy Gardell]

That's another big one that I give my son. Man. You're gonna be the five people you hang out with. So be careful what you hang around. There's an energy transference. You hang around miserable liar, cheater anger. You're next.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

But if you hang around loyalty, kindness, someone you can be vulnerable around without them weaponizing it, you grow and you become a good person. And that radiates.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great. Someone it's safe to be vulnerable around.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. And it's very. And I don't think enough young men have that in this world.

[Pete Holmes]

The vulnerability.

[Billy Gardell]

No, because there's this. There's this bro culture of you say something, and I have to jump on that and make you feel bad. Not for me.

[Pete Holmes]

The quickest way to build an identity is to put something down. You're vulnerable. You say something, you share something.

[Billy Gardell]

100. And it's what makes great standups. All the great standups are guys that can reveal a truth and how they got through it. To me, that's my favorite stuff. Carlin Pryor. All those guys. And those are the cats that I always aspire to be. I'll never be that good. But that's where I was aiming.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But even in your relationships, one of the things that men. And I'm not just making this up. I've. I read. Which means. I saw a podcast where they were talking about how. What was. The school of Life is the channel. It's a podcast channel that I really like. They were talking about how men specifically need people that they can not perform for and be vulnerable to. Like, yeah, I. I'll sit down with a guy and I'll say, what. I'm not great at it. I'm learning. I'm like, what are you scared of?

[Billy Gardell]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, what's hurting you?

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Because we don't talk about it.

[Billy Gardell]

No. You're taught as a little boy, for your whole life, just push that shit down and don't acknowledge it and tough through it. And then you wonder why you have ulcers and psoriasis later in life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

The idea is to find a mentor that you can trust. That's, you know, the laughter. Mark Twain said laughter knows its place. It's at the procession. It's at the procession of the problem. So once you talk through something, then you can laugh at it.

[Pete Holmes]

Can we unpack that? Because that's a good quote. Meaning it's the thing that's leading. Like the issue is behind it.

[Billy Gardell]

The issue is behind us. We do the work first, then we can laugh at it. If we're just laughing at the issue, we're not working through the issue. So the laughter can come. But I think we could do without all the cruelty. And I know I sound like a big softy, but that's what I believe. That's who I am. That's what I believe.

[Pete Holmes]

So what do you mean exactly? Because I don't want to guess when guys are talking and I say something vulnerable, right? I say, I'm worried. I'm teaching my daughter to be self centered like I am. And then you just make fun of me.

[Billy Gardell]

No, no, no. I think the first thing you say is, well, well, tell me about that. How's that? How do you feel you're affecting that? And then I think the most important thing you can share with humans is experience. That's how we learn from each other, is experience, not opinion. And we're in an opinion driven world. Well, for instance, if you say to. If you go into a bar and a guy's hand's on fire and you go, hey, pour water on that, that'll make your hand feel better. Well, most people are contrarian and they're just going to go, don't tell me what to do. Even if it's going to help them. But if you say, hey, you know, my hand was on fire once and I poured a little water on it and it made it feel better.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Now it's up to them, but they're hearing experience, not an opinion. Exactly. And I think that's communication.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you heard of nonviolent communication?

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

It's very interesting. I bet you do it, maybe intuitively.

[Billy Gardell]

What is that?

[Pete Holmes]

But let's say you're getting really upset at me because I was late. Let's say this podcast was at whatever time we started. You got here first and it doesn't seem like you would care.

[Billy Gardell]

I was waiting. No, I feel like you were waiting outside like an orphan.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's interesting that you say like an orphan because people do get Worked up because obviously if it's hysterical, it's a historical. So you're going like, like an orphan? Yeah, like, you think I'm stupid. You think I'm not valuable, right? So nonviolent communication, which I was briefly obsessed with, just long enough to I think get a little bit, not of a hold of it, but like some of it is like, instead of. This is how you would say, you'd say, like, it sounds like you're feeling upset because your need for respect isn't being met.

[Billy Gardell]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Instead of, instead of like guessing, you ask them like, is that the issue? What is the feeling? And what was the need that wasn't being met? A better example is when my mom is like, says, I need you to visit more. I'm only happy when I'm with you. Nonviolent communication is made for statements like, I'm only happy when I'm with you. It says, mom, it sounds like you're feeling lonely because your need for connection isn't being met. I live in Los Angeles and I'm working right now. How can we get that need for connection met? Because it's not just me, by the way. That's not just my mother. A lot of people feel that way and I feel that way sometimes. But we go like, oh, you have a need for connection, let's talk about it, but let's name it, right?

[Billy Gardell]

And by owning that and talking through it first, then at the procession, you can go, okay, how about next December? So the laugh becomes healing instead of hurtful.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you free in 2028?

[Billy Gardell]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

We had dinner with my parents and as we were leaving, my 7 year old daughter goes, see you next year.

[Billy Gardell]

There you go.

[Pete Holmes]

It wasn't a joke, though.

[Billy Gardell]

She was like, she knows the routine, she knows the schedule.

[Pete Holmes]

But grown ups go, that's true, but we don't say that.

[Billy Gardell]

You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

There's a lot of things.

[Billy Gardell]

Time and place, place, time and place.

[Pete Holmes]

My daughter said to me, we were swimming literally this morning, and she pointed at my big old dad belly and she went, you need to work out more. She's joking, though. I know she's just trying to make me laugh. We're very close. She's never trying to hurt me. But I was like, sweetie, I love that. I really do. I think that's great. Just don't say that to other people. You know what I mean? Like, that's a hard one.

[Billy Gardell]

But that's our job is to guide them again to, you know, time and place.

[Pete Holmes]

Time and place.

[Billy Gardell]

And children don't know. They just know to be honest until they're taught something else.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Billy Gardell]

They just know to be on. They don't know it's hurtful. They're not coming from.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what I mean. I can see it in her eyes and I can discern her intent. But I'm like most people. You say you need to work out more. Unless you're Don Rickles, it doesn't. I mean, you know what I mean.

[Billy Gardell]

But see, that was the gift of a guy like Rickles. There was always love underneath. So it never hurt.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

That's why all those great comedians from that era could get away with that kind of humor is you knew there was no ugly intention.

[Pete Holmes]

Right? Right.

[Billy Gardell]

There was no ugly intention. It was to make you laugh and maybe see a shortcoming. But still there was some love underneath.

[Pete Holmes]

But there isn't a word. I have a big brother, so I know. I don't know if it's the best route, but I know the efficacy of like I had a gold cross like that I wore in school and I had a black turtleneck on and I. I wore it out.

[Billy Gardell]

Wore that out. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

By accident.

[Billy Gardell]

You got it.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know. But Billy, I didn't know. A lot of times I go, why didn't anyone tell? Why didn't my mom go, sweetheart, how.

[Billy Gardell]

About a warning shot before I go to school?

[Pete Holmes]

Somebody. But my brother goes, we call each other dude. He go, we're like, this is like fourth grade. He goes, dude, you look like a nun.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just go, oh. And I tuck it in.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So he, he did hurt my feelings. Probably because you also.

[Billy Gardell]

He was looking out for.

[Pete Holmes]

He was looking out for me.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. Yeah. He maybe didn't want you to catch any ridicule or get teased.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, the problem is a lot of people were going to be worse about. I was going to get a year long nickname, you know, Sister Ignatius or whatever. I mean, it's hard to get away from.

[Billy Gardell]

I grew fat kid with crooked teeth and glasses. So I heard every awful thing that could be said to self esteem and.

[Pete Holmes]

You were the trifecta.

[Billy Gardell]

I just had it all.

[Pete Holmes]

Triple scoop.

[Billy Gardell]

And we were broke. So you had that in too. It was wonderful. But what saved me was when I found the drama department in high school because it was the first group of kids on campus that were not locked into a thing. Like in the 80s it was like there was the preppies with Izods or there was the jock group or the Izod. Remember you had to have your. You had to have your outfit to be a part of it. We all got our costumes, and the drama department was the first place in high school I found where kids were. This is the first time I ever heard, like, I'd go, I like Duran Duran. Instead of people going, oh, they suck. You shouldn't listen. They were like, okay, that's not for me, but cool, man, right? And I was like, wait, what is this group of weirdos? These are the people I want to be a part of.

[Pete Holmes]

So I grew up in Boston, and Gary Goleman has one of the best jokes.

[Billy Gardell]

He's the greatest guest.

[Pete Holmes]

He's the best.

[Billy Gardell]

And talk about an honest guy on stage. I know there's a guy who gets.

[Pete Holmes]

To the corner, deceptively, he's fantastic. And he has a joke where he goes, I'm from Boston, where a place where drinking Sprite was considered effeminate.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, so I'm with you. When I was in high school, it wasn't quite Izod. It was white baseball, cats, caps that had, like some college on it and a certain kind of Nike and fleeces. So not Izod. The same sort of stuff.

[Billy Gardell]

But you had to be in that clique to be in that clique. And just. I've never been interested in a click.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, and then for me, I'd love to hear more about you getting into the theater. It was all different kinds, Is that what you're saying?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. It was just I had to find a. I had to find a direction. And I always wanted to be a performer.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, there's a director in here.

[Billy Gardell]

I knew. I knew I wanted to perform since I was nine years old. I wanted to be a stand up. And I used to love watching sitcoms with my father. And he was a big Honeymooners fan. And being a chubby kid to see Jackie Gleason come on and light the place, I was like, well, I'm gonna do that. Yeah. And then seeing John Candy later, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Was like, I'm gonna be that guy winning.

[Billy Gardell]

So I had my direction. I just didn't know how to get to it. And when I found the drama department in high school, that was like, oh, I'm home.

[Pete Holmes]

How did you find it?

[Billy Gardell]

You know, man, I took it as an elective because I just thought, okay, well, this will be a fun elective to go check out. And then I got really lucky with the teacher. His name was Kit Haskett. And this guy wasn't doing plays like Our Town and Stuff like that. He was, like, making us do heavy stuff like the Ballad of the Sad Cafe, the book. I mean, we did these heavy plays, and he was teaching us, even in high school, Stanislavski and Meisner. And really. So I really. I really gravitated. And the fact this guy took. He was one of the first adults that took me serious. Like, most people had me pegged for. You're gonna be working at the gas station. Let's not fool each other. Which, by the way, you have no grades, you have no hope.

[Pete Holmes]

And in the 80s, they just said.

[Billy Gardell]

That that's just what you're gonna do. Be like, Billy.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean gas station Billy.

[Billy Gardell]

You gotta pay for your pump. That's where I was headed, and that's not wrong with that. But. But I had my own aspirations. And he was the first adult that was like, okay, well, if you really want to do this, start thinking about the path you want to take. And then my dad just applied. My dad wanted to be an artist. He was a great. He could draw. He was really great. Like, he wanted to be an animator, and he never got to realize his dreams. So he was always in my corner for this. And his thing was just apply your work ethic to it. Like, read books on the actors that you really love.

[Pete Holmes]

Get Pittsburgh with it.

[Billy Gardell]

Watch films. Yeah, get Pittsburgh with it. Put your eight hours. Like, when I moved to la, he said, you ain't got no money, you ain't pretty, and you don't know anybody. You better outwork everybody. And I kind of took that to heart. And he just said, put your time and study the films that you want to like be in. Study the type of art that you want to project. And from that, I think you find your own voice.

[Pete Holmes]

How did he know that?

[Billy Gardell]

My dad was just this great advice. He was one of these cool cats, man. My dad was the most original guy ever. My wife always says, you're just a hack rip off of your father. And I'm like, shut up. And bought us a house. But he just had his own. He just was this creative guy, man. He was, you know, he's a jack of all trades. He was in the Navy during Vietnam, and then he was a house painter, and then he was a cop for a little bit. And then he ended up settling as a bank teller and worked his way up in this little branch to become a manager of one of those little tiny branches that used to be around. And he did that for 35 years, but he hated it. And that's why he would always say to me, man, you can't quit. You cannot quit, even when you don't. Even when you want to quit. Lie to yourself. He goes, don't give this thing up. Don't ever. So he was always my biggest fan. And my new hour, like my last 15 minutes, is about his guidance and how I'm trying to get that to my kid, because without him, I would have failed, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

But you mentioned a stepdad. What happened?

[Billy Gardell]

My parents split around. I think it was 79 or 80. I think I was 10 or 11. And then, you know, some people, you know, they had me at 20. Because that's what she did back then.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

And that was really stressful. And they didn't get along with each other. And so they had two more, which, you know, always adds to the fun. And so it was just too much. They weren't supposed to be together. But then my mom, you know, my dad remarried, remarried a woman. It worked out for her. You know, my mom had a tougher case. She's over 35 at the time, three kids in tow. You're not going to get the cream of the crop. And so we ended up with a couple of bad guys. And. And in the grand scheme of things, you look back and you go, that's my mother trying to keep a roof over our head. But then you get the chaos that comes with people that aren't your blood parents. And that's a hard thing. And so, you know, I had to swim through that, and I did that with the humor that my dad gave me, and that's what got me out of the house at 17 and on the road and trying to do my thing.

[Pete Holmes]

That's interesting. I heard this thing about, you know, the meteor the size of Texas that had hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs, so it made the oceans. I always wondered why the fish walked out. You know that story of the. Oh, yeah, yeah, the fish, obviously. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just saying.

[Billy Gardell]

I was.

[Pete Holmes]

I was going to give a nod to the creationists. I'm just saying, the fish walks. Here's a tip. But the fish that walked out, I was always like, that's really interesting, but why? Like, I had a bit about it. I was like, he just had wanderlust. He just wanted to see the Earth. The true answer is because the. When the. That asteroid hit the ocean, it made the oceans too toxic. It was inhospitable for a really long time, so the fish had to walk out.

[Billy Gardell]

There you go.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm hearing you fishing your way.

[Billy Gardell]

Out of the house. I left the house at 17 with about $26 and.

[Pete Holmes]

Which back then was a lot of money.

[Billy Gardell]

Beat up train, suitcase. And I stayed on couches and whatever. And then I got a job at a comedy club and made 150 bucks a week under the table, you know, doing that, cleaning the club and driving comics to the airport. I thought I was in heaven. I thought that was the best couch college education I could get for what I wanted to do. Wow. You know.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you have relationship with comics? Did you meet comics?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, I mean, I really was so blessed. Like, I, you know, I started in 87, so I was emceeing for, like, it was that first. Like, it's not. It wasn't like arenas like it is now with this. I mean, what's happened now is just amazing to me to look at.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

But back then, I was seeing guys in the club like, you know, Bill Hicks and Kinison and. And even great performers that you might not be household names, but were brilliant comedians. You know, Kenny Rogerson and Ben Creed and all these guys that you were like, wow, man. That, like, we would. I remember the comics I saw. Our open mic night was pretty amazing. It was me, Darrell Hammond, Tom Rhodes. Tom was already a feature act. And Dan Whitney was not Larry the Cable Guy yet. He was Dan Whitney. And we had Carrot Top, but we had this eclectic group. But everybody kind of rooted everybody on, but we were all down there watching the Pros every week, and these were polished, great comedians. And it was right at that first heyday of it. So I feel very blessed to have gotten in when I did, because I got to see the kind of craft I try to do. You know what I mean? I try to get there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Did you drive Bill Hicks to the airport?

[Billy Gardell]

I did. In fact, I drove him to Skeeter's Biscuits one night, too. And I got to sit and talk with him and eat eggs and listen to him complain about the world in the best way. And I was just honored to be able to hang around those guys.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like guys like that, because I can be a guy like that. Not always, but I can be that way sometimes. And Matt, our. Our dear friend Matt McCarthy.

[Billy Gardell]

Love him.

[Pete Holmes]

Is the best.

[Billy Gardell]

Love him.

[Pete Holmes]

If I'm just feeling salty, which really means I'm feeling tense.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, it's usually before a show or backstage, I'll be salty about everything. If somebody knows, like you with Bill, I imagine eating those eggs at Skeeters.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

How to love somebody like that, meaning how to make space for Them, Yes. You can open them up.

[Billy Gardell]

And I always found that those guys and I always try to pay that forward when I work with comic because they remember that. You remember. I mean, in this business, like any business, you're going to get kicked around by 90% of people. So you remember those people that gave you a little encouragement, maybe shared a little experience with you and said, hey, man, good luck to you. Did he wish you the best?

[Pete Holmes]

He did.

[Billy Gardell]

That's great.

[Pete Holmes]

What did he say?

[Billy Gardell]

He said, he said, just always stay out of time.

[Pete Holmes]

We're out of time. We're out of time.

[Billy Gardell]

Okay, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Thanks, everybody.

[Billy Gardell]

No, all he said was just stay authentic.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

You know, if it scares you, talk about it. If it doesn't scare you, talk about it. A great piece of advice an old comic gave me early on was I was like, I don't want to just write stuff about commercials and topicals, like, how do I get into stuff? And he goes, you have to get. You have to get personal with yourself. Because a quick way to start that is get two pieces of paper and write on the top of them what I hate, what I love, and make lists and take them one by one and go, how do I make that funny? How do I turn? And it was a great way into finding out about myself, you know, fan. It was an easy exercise. You know, I was like, that's it. And he's like, that's it.

[Pete Holmes]

But you know what's funny is I said to Matt, which I just.

[Billy Gardell]

In business, McCarthy has a great way of making it. He changes perspective wonderfully.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

He has a great way of making a big thing small. That's his gift. He's really loving that way. I like it.

[Pete Holmes]

He's also very generous. When a big sweaty ham of a man, like, says, matt, what do I care about? I couldn't remember. Well, sometimes that's what a friend is.

[Billy Gardell]

You need your friend. I was just going to say, you need your friend who knows you to go, no, you like that thing? Oh, I do.

[Pete Holmes]

It was for a pre interview for something I'm going to do. And they were like, what are you passionate about? And I was like, matt. And I told him, I was like, all my things are really boring.

[Billy Gardell]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

And then he was like, no, you're forgetting this, you're forgetting this, you're forgetting this. And I was like, sometimes you just need that guy that can remind you. But that exercise, exercise, this is. This is really valuable. I think good art and good living are sort of indecipherable. Knowing yourself 100.

[Billy Gardell]

Right. And it's the admission of when you feel weird that people go, oh, my God, I felt that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Like, when I talk about. I talk a lot about being married for 25 years, and my wife and I went through the euphoric phase. I almost wrecked our marriage for about eight years with drinking. We stayed and healed through that, and now we're in that sweet spot. And that's a journey worth talking about. And so like those. But, you know, you're hitting a chord with your audience. When you look at the audience in there, you do that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

You get. You see the elbows. Now I'm in the zone. Now we're connected.

[Pete Holmes]

And I actually think Matt and I were talking about why I cut bits all the time. They work. That's a brag. But I'm just saying, like, the joke. That was. That was a brag. But, like, I'm saying I'll cut jokes that don't work, but then I also will cut jokes that do work. And it's because there's some sort of intuition. There's some sort of feeling. And I think you're helping me understand what it is. It's like, oh, they're not resonating. I'm not getting that vibe in the movie.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. There's. There's a funny joke, and then there's a joke that moves you forward. Yeah. That moves you forward. That's what I find. There's a joke that moves you forward. And those are the ones I'm always looking for. Because I'm sure you've had this happen. I think most comics have been doing it for a long time. Can. When you're doing a bit that you've been doing forever, that you know is gonna get a great reaction in the back of your head, you're having that second conversation like, why are you still doing this joke? What does it matter? You lazy. Write another joke with this. Really? This. You know, this is gonna work. What are you doing? I have to fight against that a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

That's really interesting.

[Billy Gardell]

I had to remember how to suck when I came back. Cause I took three years off.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And then I had this thing in my head, like, oh, you were on tv. You have to deliver a great show. And I'm like, dude, It's Tuesday. There's 12 people here. No one's watching TV anymore. Just go up and do your stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And then you get hit in the face a few times. You go, okay, I remember this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, I'm okay with this.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, Would you talk a little bit? Because it sounds like it. It would be exciting for you, and you correct me if I'm wrong.

[Billy Gardell]

It was. Yeah, it still is. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But also the process of. And when I say humility, I don't mean that in a bad way.

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

There was a time when Mike and Molly and Abishola, these were. Were smash hits. Big deal. I talked.

[Billy Gardell]

Certainly Mike and Molly, Bob and Harts did good, but that was right in the middle of the transfer of TV to the Internet. But it did well for when its time ran, Mike and Molly was absolutely a rocket ship. And luckily, man, I had just, you know, I understood. One of the gifts of that show was everybody was 40 when we hit Melissa me, you know, Everybody was over 40. So we had all done our time, and so there was nobody wandering around. Like, I'm gonna need a velvet hat with green M&Ms. Don't look me in the eye. You know, people were like, we got insurance, we got good parking, and the coffee's free. Nobody screwed this up. And so that kind of took over our set. And you talk about humility. That's your most powerful weapon. Yeah, that's your most power. It's the last one anybody reaches for, but it's the most powerful weapon.

[Pete Holmes]

You mentioned kindness, and now we have humility. These are real superpowers.

[Billy Gardell]

I think they are. And. And I strive. Look, I strive to bat 750. Nobody's perfect. But if you're doing that more than you're not, you're in a pretty peaceful place.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's kind of one of those things. If you're trying to do it, you're ahead of the pack.

[Billy Gardell]

Yes. I think if you're even thinking about it, it's like you talk about with parents. The fact you're thinking about how to react to your daughter, how you're guiding your daughter, you're ahead of the game. We have to be present for these kids because I don't think we've paid enough attention to what the phone really did to this last generation, especially during lockdowns where they were just in there with a screen. I mean, I tried to build routines for my son. Like, I bought him a bike. I said, give me the phone, get on the bike. Go ride till you're tired, come back here. You know, Saturday we're gonna clean the house. Sunday is movie night. Like, there has to be some kind of structure away from that thing. And it still got to em. Like, it gets to all of them. But I think it's A dopamine hit to say, you're not doing well enough, everybody's doing better than you. I mean, they don't call you customers, they call you users. Same thing dealers do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

So the. Look, it's a necessary part of commerce now, but don't look at it as more than that. It doesn't mean more than that.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

What means something is when you actually have a moment for yourself or with a friend that you don't have to record, that you don't have to brag about. Just a moment, you, experience that will heal you.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

That's been my experience. And I'm sure there's 12 people that are going to say in the comments, comments, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, okay. But I'm not walking around with ulcers.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not sure. I don't think, I don't. Call me crazy, I don't think those comments are coming.

[Billy Gardell]

Somebody with an idea.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, they could be. And who. We can't control that.

[Billy Gardell]

No, you can't.

[Pete Holmes]

But you're right.

[Billy Gardell]

But see, our generation knows that. Yeah, the younger generation puts a little too much stock in that.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's the gift, right?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And now we are two older guys. Just saying, like, that's the gift of.

[Billy Gardell]

Gen X. I honestly think if social media would have hit Gen X, it wouldn't have been as big because we would have been like, you know, I'm going to a show, I'll look at that Sunday. But I think it hit a generation that was already isolated, already scared, and, you know, and now we got, you know, 11 billionaires that just want everything and they want everybody. I blame us for that, though. If we would have just invited them into the kitchen during a party once months, we wouldn't be suffering either, those billionaires. Yes, we would be suffering a rat.

[Pete Holmes]

That's. That's really compassionate, though. It's very funny, but it's also compassionate. You know, it's like, what is this? There's a hurt here.

[Billy Gardell]

Why do you need it all?

[Pete Holmes]

Why do you need it all?

[Billy Gardell]

Why do you need it all?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

You know, I just don't understand what's.

[Pete Holmes]

Interesting, it's this teacher named Sadhguru. He goes, if you own the whole Earth, if you owned everything, it all said Billy Gardell on it.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

How long before you want Mars?

[Billy Gardell]

You want the moon?

[Pete Holmes]

You want the moon?

[Billy Gardell]

100%.

[Pete Holmes]

Because the thing isn't not having something, and I don't exactly know how to finish the second half of that Sentence. But it's like. Because it's more than appreciating what you have. It's figuring out.

[Billy Gardell]

I think for me, what changed for me is at the beginning of my career, it was, look at me, look at me, look at me. I needed validation. I needed whatever attention I was seeking because I thought that was gonna fill this hole in me. And it. What I find is what I've found in years of practicing a spiritual way of life. The best of my ability. Not perfectly. 750, is that. Yeah, 750. That's hall of fame.

[Pete Holmes]

Very good.

[Billy Gardell]

So very good. But it's in service. That's where you find your peace. But it's in service. Without saying I was of service. It's just doing something kind. It immediately lowers your blood pressure. Pressure. You immediately feel dignity. You immediately feel empathy. You immediately. And to me, that's a version of God.

[Pete Holmes]

Completely agree. I would. I. I like your Pittsburgh realness there. I would over intellectualize that and be like, well, it would be me recognizing our shared nature.

[Billy Gardell]

100.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

But that's.

[Pete Holmes]

But we don't even have to say that.

[Billy Gardell]

But you don't even have to say it. You feel it.

[Pete Holmes]

I can just smile at a stranger.

[Billy Gardell]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I can.

[Billy Gardell]

Dude, if you get a door for somebody now, they almost found winked.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

What do you want? Nothing. Yeah. Up to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right, right, right.

[Billy Gardell]

And I like doing that. It's like having a Jedi power.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a superpower. Yeah, it's a superpower. And Lord help you if you can let someone go ahead of you at the airport. See, Matt and I fly a lot together. And, you know, sorry to keep mentioning Matt, but I love him. He's like a stone in the best way.

[Billy Gardell]

The best way. He's a 100.

[Pete Holmes]

Just a stone. And sometimes we'll be at the airport and we're waiting to board and people keep cutting us. We were laughing. We just wanted to be like, we're all at the airport, you know? Don't you just want to say that.

[Billy Gardell]

We'Re all at the airport at this point? They should just. Because they got all their stupid line theories and everybody crashed, they should just fire a starting gun, let us run. That's right. Because it's just a mess. I just. I'm like, whatever, man. I got a backpack. I don't care.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's, you know, what Matt would say about that. That's self love. See, I realized I was doing all these things, like preparing for my set, listening to the set from the night before, looking at My notes. And I just thought I was, I was dragging my feet and Matt was like, no, you're, you're. That's self love. You're caring for yourself.

[Billy Gardell]

He's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And traveling, which is a backpack, if you can.

[Billy Gardell]

That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

Is also self love.

[Billy Gardell]

That's it. One of the greatest things about my weight loss is small packing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

I used to have shirts that could cover the mound at Dodger Stadium. So now I got my little teeny T shirts and they all fit and I'm like, I'm gone. You got a shirt, you fold it 22 times. That's it. Rolled up like the military. I'm gone. I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. The easiest, most intuitive, and I'd even say fun, all in one website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're starting a business, sharing your art, or just need a place to say, hi, it's me, Gary. Squarespace makes it easy to claim your domain, build a beautiful site, and even get paid all in one place. What I love is it actually looks. Looks good right out of the gate. Obviously, that's super important for a website and you don't have to be a designer to make something that feels pro with their blueprint AI feature. It will build a custom website for you. You just tell it what you want in plain English and a little bit about your vibe, and it generates polished pages, great copy and design ideas in seconds. Then you can tweak everything with a simple drag and drop editor, just like your website. Website is sitting right in front of you on a table. Or you can choose from tons of award winning templates if you want to start from scratch. So whether you're selling merch, posting tour dates like me, or just showing off your work, Squarespace gives you all the tools you need. No coding required. Head to squarespace.com weird for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code weird to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. That's squarespace.com weird. Obviously, I'm wearing perfect jeans in this interview. And obviously I'm wearing perfect jeans right now. Because the perfect jean are just that. They are, no joke, the perfect jean. I used to think jeans had to feel like punishment. Stiff, scratchy, crushing your hopes, your dreams, and your nuts. But these, they're soft, they're flexible, and they somehow make me look like I have fashion and I have my life together.

[Billy Gardell]

Together.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm serious. I've worn these on Meetings on stage, on red carpets, running errands. I've taken naps in them. I could probably do yoga in them. They move with you. No plumber's crap, no denim diaper situation. Just perfectly fitted, stretchy comfort. And they're only $79.99, which is a cheap, cheap price for designer jeans that are so impeccably made. I play. I pay double for ones that feel like sandpaper. So yeah, yeah, I love them. They're stylish, comfy, and they make me feel like the main character in a rom com. So fuck your khakis. Get the perfect gene For a limited time, you get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC. Use code Weirdo. That's 15% off at ThePerfectGene NYC with promo code Weirdo. And when they ask where you heard about them, tell em this podcast sent ya. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Kenobody. The maker of the supplements that have really been turning my life around in a major way found out that there was a study that discovered between 1987 and 2004, men's average testosterone dropped about 1% per year. That means today men have about 40% lower testosterone than their grandfathers did in the 80s. I didn't even know that was a thing. I went to the doctor. They would tell me I was normal, low on testosterone. But now that I've been supplementing it, it explains a lot. That feeling tired, dull, just kind of off has a lot to do with testosterone. Thankfully, Keno Body is here to help. I've been taking their supplement Mojo for Testosterone. And yeah, it's the perfect name because it brings your mojo back. Since starting it, I've noticed a huge difference. More energy, better workouts, sharper focus and blood flow. And yes, wink wink, that means boner city. This isn't just an ad, it's 100. My experience. I feel motivated, creating creative, more driven. Mojo gives your body the nutrients to naturally boost your testosterone, lower your cortisol and get your edge back. I love all their supplements. I take Mojo Shred Nitro. I love Keno Octane as well, which is their pre workout that gives you an amazing euphoric energy that carries you through your workouts and helps you go that extra mile. So weirdos, you get 20 off your first order. Go to kinobody.com and use promo code weird. That's Kenobi body.com promo code weird. So talk to me about because I think we all need to know like these billionaires, you went to the top of a very rarefied mountain and it didn't very lucky. It didn't fill you up though.

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're not complaining.

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. That's very clear.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm asking you, just like Jim Carrey said, I wish everybody could have their dreams come true so they could see it's not the answer.

[Billy Gardell]

It's not.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm asking a very clear.

[Billy Gardell]

That's an inside job as they say.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me. Oh yeah. The work you need to do.

[Billy Gardell]

100 tell me about it. For me my journey was always, you know, searching for that success. I'll get that. I'll be happy. And that's not what it is. What I found, and this is just my journey was I had a very low self worth. And when you have a very low self worth, no matter what you do, you think you either don't deserve it and so subconsciously you try to destroy it. You don't pay attention to it. You build up a bright outlook and then you begin to tear it down and you don't know why you're doing that. And then you're afraid to feel when you have low self worth so you numb it out with booze or gambling or whatever your food, you know, And I had all those. And at some point you have to surrender and go, I need to ask for help. Because what I'm doing is a repetitive cycle. And what's the old definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. I keep going to the hardware store for milk. It's not in there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

No matter how many times I show up, it's not in there. So asking for help, finding some mentorship again in these places with people who have experience, who are willing to share their experience but not point their finger and tell you what to do. Now that gives me the freedom to make that choice for myself. And the more know my wife taught me, you know, you, you want self esteem, do esteemable acts and that when that, when that clicked in, I was able to start tackling my problems one at a time.

[Pete Holmes]

Matt says that too. It's like you're feeling lost. Feed the dog.

[Billy Gardell]

Feed the dog, man. That's a great way to see again. He makes it sound cool with that much sentence, you know, but that's exactly it. That's it. Feed the dog. And there's that old, you know, there's that old. The, the Cherokee sentence where the grandfather is speaking to the grandson and the grandfather Says there's two wolves that live inside you. One's evil anger and all that, and the other's peace, kindness, and they fight your whole life. And the kid says, well, which one wins? And he says, the one you feed. So what you're feeding, your eyes, your ears and your heart is everything about what you're going to become.

[Pete Holmes]

I completely agree.

[Billy Gardell]

And that's how you change things too.

[Pete Holmes]

But that brings us back to the phone. And I'll just. I, I, I've experienced addiction in my life as well. And like, the phone is binary and addict thinking is black and white. 100 I'm either winning or I'm losing. This post either went viral or it was a flop. I either got good comments or I didn't. I either exist or I don't. And you're chasing it.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And like I, I for 99.9% of my life just don't engage. But the times that I have, I'm like, oh, this is exactly like, like being in a bubble, looking at pornography, looking for the right thing that's going to make you feel a certain way. But it's just, it's comedy clips or, or it's self help clips, whatever.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, it, it is. I'm real careful with that algorithm because if you touch the wrong thing, bro. Yeah, people, dude, I, I looked at one UFO thing for a month. I felt like I was on the Enterprise. I'm like, I don't need any of that. I just wanted to know if it was a rock. I researched all I wanted to know.

[Pete Holmes]

I researched g guests. So I'll watch something that I wouldn't normally.

[Billy Gardell]

Now that's your thing.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's like dumb Amazon. Amazon used to be really dumb. You bought a mattress and it keeps going like you want a mattress.

[Billy Gardell]

You're like, you know, and now we just have to say it and it'll hear it. And later we'll have emails for mattresses.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

That's the thing. I, I Casper mattresses. I try to take a little bit of time every day away from all of it. I try to take between 5 and 30 minutes every day just away from it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, that's my, that's what I drew.

[Pete Holmes]

Would you call that a meditation or you're just.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, I actively try to meditate. I can usually get about five minutes before the orchestra cranks up. But, but meditating for me looks like reading. I'm a vinyl record guy. Like, I have one room in my house. After 25 years of marriage, if You've been a good husband. You get one room for your shit and you go in there and play. And in that room with your train, that's it. And in that room it's all the stuff that inspired me. And I'm hopefully leaving that stuff for my son. Books you hold in your hand, classic books. His birthday's on the 29th, so I bought him 29 books that changed my life. And so one day they're on the shelf and I said one day when I'm gone, those are going to be with you forever. And I hope you explore them. But either way, I'm right there on your shelf. I'm right there with you. So it's those little things that I try to hold on.

[Pete Holmes]

I got to go. I'm going to cry. We're two Irishmen just.

[Billy Gardell]

Oh dude, I cry more than dick Vermeil these.

[Pete Holmes]

I was crying on the ride down. I cried on the drive down because I was listening to music and the sun was so beautiful.

[Billy Gardell]

I hear cats in the cradle and thinking sun. It's over, we're done, it's just over.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to, we have to unpack everything you just said. Can I start by saying cuz we, I want to get to the 29 books. We don't have to say all of them.

[Billy Gardell]

No, no, no fun but.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh God, will you allow. It's like a little, a little share. I just want to tell it to you. It just happened this morning. So every morning I get up, I'm, I'm. I'm a morning person and as a parent it's hard to have time to do the things I, I need to do to feel my best. One of them is move and one of them is read. So I get up 5:30 in the morning. Usually this time of year it falls off in the summer. Cuz summer's so obvious. Yellow and blue. Get the out of here. So I can't do it inside.

[Billy Gardell]

I like the fall falls myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Fall is my time. I don't even try to do it. That's why I'm telling you this. It just rolls around right around the time change. I'm just up at 5 5:30 and I love, it's the best. So I get up, I get out of the bed. My daughter's climbed into the bed with us probably by that point. So I'm leaving a bed with my whole heart, my wife and my daughter. But I'm getting up and I go down and I love it and I, I swim and then I sit by the fire And I reach read, and it's the best.

[Billy Gardell]

Perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

And like you and I, I do want that gardell validation, but I know I have it. I like every morning my daughter gets up before my wife. She'll come down, and she catches me. And that's part of it. Because I'm like, you catch me.

[Billy Gardell]

She sees you doing reading. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And swimming. And then we got back in the pool. But here's what we did this morning. I got up, I swam, I got in the house. I don't even know anybody's. I'm just drying off. And I look by the fire. My daughter is sitting there pretending to read by the fire. Are we going to cry now?

[Billy Gardell]

I can't handle how beautiful that was. No, you can. And you earned it. And that's why it feels so good. Because here's the thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you, Billy.

[Billy Gardell]

More than anything in this world, your child will watch you than listen to you. So they watch our habits, they watch our reactions. They watch how we interact with other people. You know? And that is the most powerful thing that lands on your child.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

It's not. You could talk till you're blue in the face.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

But they watch. They watch every little thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

I remember one time I caught my son. I GUESS he's about 3 or 4, and I was doing something with my hand or whatever and just watching a game or something, and I looked over and he was doing it and I was like, that's when that landed on me. Like they're recording everything he did do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

So your behavior more than anything you say.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

That's the goal.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I ask you. I'm compelled to ask you. 7:50.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. My daughter, one time, the gate was closing on the car.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We laugh about it now. Me and my daughter do laugh about it. But like, Daddy freaked out.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I just was like.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't remember what. It wasn't even what I said. It was like the tone of my voice. Like, I really just. I couldn't that morning have the gate close on the car. I'm mashing the button like God or something.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We repaired. My wife always says you can't always do it right, but you can make it right.

[Billy Gardell]

Right. That's great.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's in the repair.

[Billy Gardell]

It's the react. It's what you do after.

[Pete Holmes]

So that happened. I want you to grade my work here. It's like you acknowledge that it happened. Daddy freaked out. That was loud. And that was a little scary. Can I tell you something? I was scared too. Yes. That scared me.

[Billy Gardell]

There is the human emission right there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

My son and I developed this thing called the second conversation. Every now and then when he was younger, he'd do something that would frustrate me. And you know, you're parented the way you parent until you learn to evolve and you try to fix and do a little better. But every now and then I would go, hot Pittsburgh. What the hell is. What are you doing? Hot Pittsburgh. And so then I would circle back and by being big enough to go back in there and say, hey, listen, what I said to you was right. The way I said it to you was wrong. Here's what I was trying to say. But my emotions got out in front of me.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Billy Gardell]

And so we joke. And I'd come in and he'd go, second conversation. I go, second conversation. And he understood that I was trying to get better as well. And I was trying to convey to him that, that every mistake I've ever made in my life was because I acted on an emotion. So what I try to teach him is if there's a big emotion, whether it's anger, celebration, whatever, speak about it to someone first. Get the emotion down to where it's logic, then make your decision. You avoid a lot of messes in life that way, like the knee jerk emotional reaction. But we're also human and we're also fallible. So you did 100% it's gonna happen. It's what do you do after you fall down? What do you do after you make the mistake? And I find that being a big enough person as a parent to look at your kid and go, I completely shit the bed on that. I'm so sorry. Here's what was going on and I should have handled that a little bit better. I hope you get that and I hope you don't have to do that as much as me. Man, that's more powerful to a child, to me, in my opinion, than anything. Cause then they feel safe to tell you anything. The other thing I stopped doing was like, when I got in trouble when I was a kid, my parents exploded because that's how they were raised. And then all that teaches you is I ain't ever giving up another shred of information as long as I'm alive. So the thing I tried to correct with my son was is you can come to me with anything. I will not explode at you. But I'm going to shoot you straight. I'll tell you if I know. I'll tell you if I don't know. I'll tell you what I did if I had that. But I'm not going to blow up at you so you have a place to come. Lay that down. Down before you make that action. Lay it down before you make an action. That's always what I try to teach.

[Pete Holmes]

It reminds me of the nonviolent thing, too. It's like that my need for your security wasn't being met.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was feeling scared because my need for your security wasn't being met.

[Billy Gardell]

When you have a child, that is the biggest cocktail of fear and love that you're ever going to experience in your life. And you Never look. He's 22. He lives in San Francisco.

[Pete Holmes]

Every.

[Billy Gardell]

Every day. Is he okay? Is he all right? Did he. Did he used a cream for his eczema? Did he eat today? What did he. I mean, you. But. But what you have to look through that fear at, at least I tried to, is the gift that I get to love something so unconditionally.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

That's why we're here, in my opinion.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

That's why we're here, man. And that's. I think that's what kept me out of any kind of trouble and hard Hollywood, too, man, is. I just. I didn't go to parties. I didn't go to, you know, if I had to go to a network event because I was required to be there. I did my lap, I shook hands, took pictures and left. Because my treasures at my house. Yeah, my wife and kid are at my house. They're always more important in my job. And when you have something that's more important than your job, then your job doesn't define you. And when that happens, that means if you're bad at your job, you're not a bad person. If you're good at your job, you're not a good person. You're just doing your job. Who you get home to? To me, that was everything. And it still is to this day.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt that shift because I was doing, obviously doing show business before my daughter was born. And then after she was born, like.

[Billy Gardell]

The volume, just big change in perspective. You see a couple sets of eyeballs looking at you like, how are we gonna do this? Yeah. And you're like, whoa, now I know what I'm here for. Now I know what I'm supposed to do. And by the way, that's not for everybody. I respect people who know they don't want children, but for me, it gave me. I know what I'm fighting for. I know Every morning, what I'm up. I know why I'm going out there. I know why I'm continuing to try. I know why I continue to do this. That's the job. And I like that job. That job suits me. That suits me. And I found that.

[Pete Holmes]

And multicam schedules.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. The best. It's like stealing money. I tell everybody on a sitcom, you should be wearing a ski mask. We're going home at 4. The poor writers are going back up into the room for another nine hours. We're gonna come in at nine, have a bagel going. Pretend. Okay, I'm in.

[Pete Holmes]

That's putty. I can't.

[Billy Gardell]

And you worked with a. When you did your show. Your executive producer is a dear friend of mine, Mark Gross.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Mark Gross.

[Billy Gardell]

Another wonderful.

[Pete Holmes]

One of the best.

[Billy Gardell]

Good Midwest guy. Another cat who understands going home is the job. Getting home is the job.

[Pete Holmes]

Is. He's not sober, but he has sober energy.

[Billy Gardell]

100.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Billy Gardell]

I've never. I work hard to be a good human being. Mark's one of those cat like Matt. That's their default position. And I admire those people. They just got the wiring. They got the booklet. I didn't get the booklet.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they got the.

[Billy Gardell]

I had to learn as I went.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

They got the instructions.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? He feels seasoned.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. And kind and driven by the bigger picture. And to me, that's the deal, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. He's fantastic. So the books. What are some of the books?

[Billy Gardell]

Some of the 29 are. Well, obviously the Count of Monte Cristo. Cause you have to escape whatever prison your mind put you in. So there's a great metaphor there, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Because that took me off in a direction that I wouldn't have find a couple Dashiell Hammets. Because I love La Noir and my son was born in la and he loves everything about Los Angeles. He really embraces the city.

[Pete Holmes]

You considered him in the list. It's not just your list.

[Billy Gardell]

It's our list. For him, it's our list. But those were also things that made me want to come see certain things, like Philippe's in LA and go see the. You know, the history of Los Angeles. So that. And of course, Huckleberry Finn and a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. A Sherlock Holmes. So it's an eclectic. On the Road by Kerouac. And, you know, it's an eclectic mix of books, but they all touched me in a different way at the right way. At the right time. And so 29 is always my number for him because that's when he was born. So wherever I see a 29, if it's gate 29, I send him a picture or whatever. But those 29, they're there for him one day, and I hope he'll sit and explore these and go, these were my father's books. These were the things that inspired my father. Father, can I tell you that.

[Pete Holmes]

That 29 thing, just that you have this thing, right. Seems so light. But every time I do the. I do a type of therapy called Internal Family Systems, it's like looking at your parts, right. It's hard to explain, but Inner child kind of comes from Internal Families. It didn't. They didn't make it up. But it's big. Talking to your child and all this stuff, it's huge.

[Billy Gardell]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

And asking feelings what they want to tell you.

[Billy Gardell]

It's huge.

[Pete Holmes]

It's incredible. But what I want to tell you, and it's a compliment for you, is every single session, at one point, when I say my inner child, I just mean my inner world will show me this moment. When I was a kid at a birthday party for my friend Opie. His name was Otis. We called him Opie. So Opie and his mom were at a nature preserve, and his mom is saying, don't hurt any of the animals, otherwise my friend here, meaning her son, will have a problem with you.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I. I still have a reaction when I tell you that story. But when I was a kid, I was like. And look, my parents did a great job. I'm not dragging them. I'm just saying. I'm sorry. You have like a. You know, his interests, and you're defending them, and you're making kind of like a friend joke. Like, my friend, like, you called him my friend. Like, I couldn't. There's a lot there.

[Billy Gardell]

Subtle threat.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that?

[Billy Gardell]

There's a subtle.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, there's a subtle threat, but she was demonstrating un understanding of his concerns, his values, and treating him like a chum. And. And so when you're sending, like, 29 is our thing.

[Billy Gardell]

It is our thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying when your son is 46 like I am, you'll never. You don't know what it is. It might be something as small. My daughter and I have a secret handshake. My dad and I have a secret handshake. These are the things that matter.

[Billy Gardell]

These are the gifts of family. One of the things my wife and kid do is we always go one four Three to each other and the other one will go two. And that just means I love you. And then. So that's our thing. But it's those little things that, that's what's going to carry them through the adversities. To let them know they have worth. To let them know that it's. It's worth fighting one more day. There's always one more surrender. There's always one more round to go. This thing doesn't end. It ends when we're in the box. So the quicker you surrender that the better. But the thing you were talking about, talking about the inside kid, you know, I got up to £385 and I would look and look. You know, some people, they don't understand that food addiction to me is as dangerous as any other addiction. If you suffer with that one, you know, it's a secretive thing, it's ugly.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, can I.

[Billy Gardell]

It's in the dark. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You never really see. This isn't a stand up premise. I'm just saying you never really see very heavy people even eating.

[Billy Gardell]

No, because it's shame. You're shame filled. You're eating in the middle of the night when no one's looking, right. And then you're acting shocked the next morning. How did I gain five pounds?

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Billy Gardell]

But what I did. And a therapist gave me this, what I did, I have a nutritionist who's a slash food therapist too. And she really. Because when I did my surgery, it wasn't about that being the answer. And I tell everybody I did bariatric surgery. I'm very open about it, but always look at what you have to do to maintain because that's the work. It's just a window to get better.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. It gives you a little head start.

[Billy Gardell]

It does, it gives you a start. But if you're not willing to change, you're done for exactly. You get five minutes. You get five. And that's. We'll see how you do. That's your surgery. We'll see how you do. You'll see how long the window stays open your mike.

[Pete Holmes]

And my grace period is bariatric surgery.

[Billy Gardell]

My thing through it was all those years, I would lose 30 pounds, gain 35 pounds and I would look myself in the mirror and go, lose one. Wait, you fat piece of shit. And it wasn't until this woman changed my thought process of that she goes, you're just reinforcing how much you hate yourself or what you're afraid of. You know, And I did some deep work and you know, I Caught some beatings when I was a kid. And I put that gorilla suit on, and I wore that like a beating was coming for 38 years until I did the work and realized that beating's no longer coming.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. It's Iron Man.

[Billy Gardell]

You can be. Yeah, it's the big Iron man suit. And I.

[Pete Holmes]

He built it because he had to get out of a cave. But you're not in the cave.

[Billy Gardell]

But it wasn't. That's a great analogy. And it. But it wasn't until I started looking myself in the mirror and saying, I love you, and I'm gonna do my best to take care of you today. And the way she got me there was. She said, how much do you love your son? I said, I die for my son tomorrow. And that's not a joke. I give a kid my heart, so you see how I get. Talk about the Irish criers. I know. But she said, I want you to treat yourself with 15% of the love you have for your son. And that it unlocked. I was like, I can get healthy. See, it still affects me. It should be. But I did it. I walked out of that prison. And that's why I try to tell other people how I did it. Because if I can do it, you can do it. I was a black hole. I just absorbed everything.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Because when you're eating. I struggle with food addiction. When you're eating, you're not feeling.

[Billy Gardell]

No. And you can pretend like it's, you.

[Pete Holmes]

Know, I mean, the way we eat.

[Billy Gardell]

No. Dude, I used to lay next to stuff like a boa constrictor to size it up, make sure I could get it all down. No. It is a form of numbing. I need to numbness because why? I'm afraid to feel. Why am I afraid to feel? Because I've never learned how to do that. And once you learn how to process it. Feelings aren't facts. Yeah. They're period time periods. That's all they are. And this too, shall pass.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. They're class.

[Billy Gardell]

You just gotta hold on. So, you know, that's just that. And then you try to convey that to your kids and say, hey, you know, I hope you get this so you don't have to go through it like I went through it. You're gonna go through your own stuff. You know, the question.

[Pete Holmes]

What am I unwilling to feel right now?

[Billy Gardell]

Well, that's it. Yeah, that's. And that's the world right now, you know? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it is. Yeah, that's true.

[Billy Gardell]

I'm afraid to feel, so I'll just be angry.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Billy Gardell]

I'm afraid to feel, so I'll just be mean. I'll protect me. When it's really. What you're doing is just cutting yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a different suit.

[Billy Gardell]

You're just cutting yourself off.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And I don't want to be that. I don't want to do that.

[Pete Holmes]

And, you know, it's interesting sometimes when I go in and find the feeling that I'm unwilling to feel. And I do want to say that journey in itself.

[Billy Gardell]

Huge.

[Pete Holmes]

It is huge. And I can't always do it.

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes I am.

[Billy Gardell]

Most people don't want to look at that. They don't. That's terrifying.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes when you look at it, and this is. I believe it's the Tantric approach. Like, you go into the feeling instead of going away from it.

[Billy Gardell]

You got to walk into it.

[Pete Holmes]

You go into it.

[Billy Gardell]

There's.

[Pete Holmes]

There's two spiritual kind of approaches. One is, I am the awareness. That's observing the feeling. That's sort of the vedantic. The tantric is going into it. Both reveal who you really are, which is something independent of this sensation that's temporary. This too shall pass. But when you do go into it, and I'm curious if you've ever, ever experienced this, let's say it is loneliness. Just as an example, you go into it, you. You welcome it in for tea, as they say in some traditions, sometimes without any agenda. Just like you and I should not have agendas for each other. You know what I mean? Just like an openness.

[Billy Gardell]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You go into it, you realize that the loneliness is made out of something very beautiful.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you had that experience?

[Billy Gardell]

I was always okay, I guess because being a road comic, you're alone so much. And when I started, it was. You were in a car for, you know, 10 to 15 hours. No phones, no cell phones. So it was just you and a tape deck.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember this.

[Billy Gardell]

I remember those days. So I got okay at being alone. And the thing it taught me is until you're alone, you can't be reflective. The reflective can be scary, but it's also the time you get to look at stuff. If you can be gentle with yourself and it can get chaotic, and then you num it out and you try again. You try again. But what I've found is, and this is the thing I kept preaching to my son, it is better to be alone than in a relationship that is harming you just for the sake of being in a relationship, whether that's a friend, a lover, a wife. Whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

You're the five people you hang out with.

[Billy Gardell]

There it is, man. And that was advice my dad gave me, and I didn't get it till I was 40. But I'm hoping he's getting it now because he seems to have a pretty solid squad around him. He's got a girlfriend, and I love seeing that. And that's what I tell him because he gets overwhelmed like any kid today, like the world. And I'm like, go be in love.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

That what you can do right now is go be in love. You can follow your dreams. You can be kind to others. That's really where we begin and end. So if you're doing that, you're going to be okay. And one day at a time. One day at a time. Let's just do it today. Let's just do it today.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, let's do it today. And it's not a lot of mental emotional issues, disorders, hinge on the idea that it somehow comes down to you.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like it's all hinging on you.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I quote it all the time. But BJ Novak had this joke where he's like, sometimes it's one of these, what we call a false premise. He doesn't really do it. He's like, if I'm on an airplane, I'll look at the guy next to me and go, do you think I can crash this plane just by thinking about it? It's a very, very funny.

[Billy Gardell]

That's a great line.

[Pete Holmes]

But the reason it really stuck sticks with me is I'm like, I think mo all of us are living like that.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is why AI psychosis is a real thing. Because AI will reflect that back to you. That it does all come down to you.

[Billy Gardell]

So horrible, the idea, but it's not new. Yeah. No. I just felt sparked when you said that. This idea, like, what's. Again, I go back to Mark Twain. I've lived through a million bad things, and some of them actually happen. You can't trust your brain. It's telling you a lie most of the time.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

And when you understand that, that's when you can reach out for a little bit of help. The AI thing, the reason I try to tell my son this is commerce. It's nothing but commerce, only treated as commerce. Because I don't want AI to tell me what kind of shirt I like or flower I like or music I like. I want to go discover those things because then I get the worth of having made that search. And I think there was a result.

[Pete Holmes]

The Point wasn't the result.

[Billy Gardell]

The point was not the result. The point was finding out what I like. So I know what I like, why I like it. I know why I didn't like it.

[Pete Holmes]

Or even the funny story of falling on your face because you didn't find it.

[Billy Gardell]

All of that. All of that. And there was the great stuff, man.

[Pete Holmes]

That was your life.

[Billy Gardell]

And I think that's what makes us individuals and it makes us able to be a part of and apart from. And I think that's the balance. I think you be an individual, but you can join in. And I think that's what you bring into a room with you, is that that's everything.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree.

[Billy Gardell]

And they just did a report, I think it was MIT did it, that said they followed people just on ChatGPT that were using that every day. Like their cognitive thinking declined 13%. You know, I mean, I don't want to have to rely on this.

[Pete Holmes]

Seinfeld has a great bit about it.

[Billy Gardell]

What's he saying?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want you to do it for me.

[Billy Gardell]

I want to do it. Well, he's right, though. I want to do it. I do. I want to still know that I function. I want to know that I'm here. I want to know that I'm present and I can't get there if I'm asking you to do everything.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny because these conversations are linked. The vulnerability to ask for help, to admit you don't know, to sit with this discomfort of I am incomplete or I'm not where I want to be. Yes, it's easier to go to something that will fill that in for you. But the real richness of life is going help, right? Getting help. Helping yourself, figuring you know what I mean by helping.

[Billy Gardell]

And if I know. But if I go to that thing, if I go to that. That automated thing, there's no courage in that. Yeah, Courage is laying yourself out there to someone you trust. We're back to home again. To me, the wiring I grew up with was, you get to the corner bar, you sit, you drink, and you suffer quietly like the. Of the rest. Rest of the men. And that makes you a man. That's horseshit. Strength is. I'm afraid. Strength is. Have you ever done this? I don't know how to do this. Now you're coachable now you're learnable. Now you can break out of bad cycles.

[Pete Holmes]

Great. You know, there's a line and there's a. It's silly to call it a children's book, but it's a book that's suitable for children and it's for everybody. And I always get the name wrong, but it's called something like the child, the Horse, the mole. You know what I'm talking about?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe you could look it up so I don't butcher that. Please. Thank you, Katie. But somebody. It's like. It's like, reads like poetry. And somebody says to one of the characters, they go, what's the bravest thing you ever said? And the kid says, help.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're just like, yeah. Am I gonna cry? What's it called?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse. The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse is a great.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Take one of the books off your son shelf and put that in there. Like, you keep changing the list a little bit. I'm just kidding. But I do think you'll.

[Billy Gardell]

You'll like it. It's powerful stuff, man. To be able to. To seek help from the right people and then grow. And then when you grow, your worth grows, your dignity grows, your kindness grows, your calm grows. And that what. I mean, what are we doing?

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. That's right. It seems so obvious. All the great truths seem so obvious. But it's like we're taught. We've been having this long conversation. It is about. It does seem to be about one thing, and it's like the courage to change. Change and grapple with your brokenness.

[Billy Gardell]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And your insecurity and your fear and social media and consumerism. Commerce. As you said, to easy answers, fast things. Likes. All this stuff. Is this, like, synthetic. Over the hero's journey, which is lighting a torch and going into the darkest, scariest chaos.

[Billy Gardell]

That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's. Here's the bad news. It's a cave made just for you.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's your cave.

[Billy Gardell]

By you.

[Pete Holmes]

For you. So the things in the shadows are actually uniquely terrifying to just you. And that's. I actually think that's what being a human is.

[Billy Gardell]

It absolutely is, man. And the more. When you can find people safe enough that you can illuminate your fears, real or imagine, they go to half Mask. Now you can. Now you can navigate them. But if you're just sitting there on your own consult, I wish you well. I couldn't do it. I had a friend tell me, don't go in your neighborhood. Don't go in your head. It's a bad neighborhood. Don't go in there alone.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And that's what I learned. That's true. But that comes Also with seeking. You know, I had a mentor who always said, go where the love is. Go where the love is. Look around your life, it's easy to spot. Go where the is love. Love is. Don't go. Don't hand a stick to somebody's gonna poke you in the eye.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's when you said what you said to your son about commerce and chatgpt. It's David Foster Wallace. I quote him all the time. He goes, I'm worried about all of us having our needs met by things that don't love us.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So again, this is a great quote.

[Billy Gardell]

That's, that's money.

[Pete Holmes]

And he said that before the Internet, basically.

[Billy Gardell]

I mean, when we see some of these guys that saw all of this coming. Yeah, like there's a. Is it Sagan, that demon haunted world? I mean, he wrote about we were going to lose our industry. We were going to be nothing at a commercial and a technology driven. Like, how did you Write that in 94? And you saw it all coming. You listen to some of Carlin's old pieces and you're like, it's happening right now. How did you see into the future?

[Pete Holmes]

But isn't there a comfort there? Because I guess there isn't anything new under the sun. That kind of old thing, Ecclesiastes, it's in the Bible is what I'm saying. But there's something valid about that. And I go, look, it's the same thing in a new package.

[Billy Gardell]

I think it all comes down to how we treat each other again. Can we put the common welfare first, above our own needs? And that doesn't mean bleed everything you've worked into somebody else. It just means. Means be sensible, be kind and where you can help, help when and where you can. Yeah, that simple. When and where you can. Yeah, it doesn't have to. You don't got to go out and move the United Nations. But maybe you help somebody across the street. Maybe if, if we were in that direction as a race, I think we'd be doing cool stuff by now.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree.

[Billy Gardell]

You know, and now I'm just like, well, when's it going to be over? We got about 20 minutes left. What do we get? You know? So.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it just me or are things actually really scary right now? In the world of public health, every day brings another confusing headline. Or yet again a far fetched claim. Vaccines are somehow up for debate and parents are scrolling TikTok for medical advice. I'm Chelsea Clinton, an advocate, author, investor, teacher and mom navigating this insane Time right alongside you as well. I hope you'll join me on my new podcast, that Can't Be True, a show that sorts fact from fiction, especially on issues impacting our health. From Limonada Media and the Clinton Foundation. That Can't Be True is out October 2nd.

[Billy Gardell]

So I don't know. I don't know where we're going, but I know that if I bog down in that, my day's over.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

But if I bog down in service and what my family's doing and you're saying keeping myself out of myself, I got a shot today to be happy.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to the bj. No. Can I crash this plane by thinking about it? Can I help the world by stressing out about it? No. In fact, the you that's not constantly getting second by second updates on every tragedy.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The you that isn't getting those updates is a more capable person.

[Billy Gardell]

100. 100. Because you're present.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

You're present.

[Pete Holmes]

And your heart isn't. You don't have the Iron man suit on.

[Billy Gardell]

There it is. Yeah, there it is. And I. That's a tough way to walk through life, man. And a lot of people are afraid to look through that. And I just try to say, look, if I can look through it. I grew up not telling anybody anything, terrified to get in trouble when I got in trouble, trying to cover it up. When you become a person who's just trying to be of service, that stuff, it just evaporates. And then you're free to just be. Try to be a good person. And I'm not better than anybody else. I'm not. I. I am on an equal footing with everybody, have my flaws, just like everybody. But like we talked about earlier, I'm trying.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

I'm trying to bring good where I go. I'm trying to leave places better than I found them. It's just simple little things like that that bring a piece to me that works for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Boy, I love that.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I caught myself holding, like, a couple things to say next, and I was like, just listen to them.

[Billy Gardell]

No, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I. I dropped them. That's why they're not here. That's why this lull is brought to you by my.

[Billy Gardell]

Brought to you by what was the mattress company?

[Pete Holmes]

We don't work with them. We should say. Say Magic Mind. Say modern mammals. Say a real one. We did work with Casper Mattresses. They gave us a mattress, so they.

[Billy Gardell]

Deserve some free Casper.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't use it. I gave it to these people.

[Billy Gardell]

These.

[Pete Holmes]

The people that live here.

[Billy Gardell]

Nice. There you go. Oh, there you go.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice little thing. There was a weird flex service, but it's true. We were talking about the quality. So Ram Dass talks about, how do you keep your heart open in hell? And he said that in the 60s, which, again, is like, there's nothing new. These people are fearing nuclear obliteration. There's always, like, some existential threat. There's always, like. I'm not saying we shouldn't. But what they would do before they would protest like a nuclear power plant is they would, like, chant. They would meditate. They would. They would do something to open their heart. Yeah, because you can't kick any. He was like, do what you need to do with somebody, but don't ever kick anybody out of your heart.

[Billy Gardell]

No, exactly. And that doesn't mean you can't separate with love as well, to take care of yourself. I mean, there's certain people that you're just not meant to crisscross paths with. And I think they come into your life to teach you boundaries, but boundaries. You can set a boundary with someone and it can be a decision, and go, that person's just. I don't get along with them. I've tried. It doesn't work. But I don't have to walk away carrying a vendetta. I can just understand that that doesn't work. And if you really want to get elevated with it, pray for them. That's what releases you. I always find prayer is not for them, for us. Forgiveness is for us. It's not for them. Not in some majestic way. It's so that what they say, anger.

[Pete Holmes]

Is like a poison.

[Billy Gardell]

And hoping them to die, hoping someone else dies.

[Pete Holmes]

But forgiveness is like offering someone a cake, and suddenly you're tasting it.

[Billy Gardell]

It astounds me that it works every time.

[Pete Holmes]

It does work. Every time.

[Billy Gardell]

Every time. Even when I think there's no way this can work. Yeah, it does.

[Pete Holmes]

And I would even elevate that to mercy, because forgiveness acknowledges that something bad happened. But mercy goes.

[Billy Gardell]

That's. That's Jedi level.

[Pete Holmes]

It is Jedi.

[Billy Gardell]

That's Jedi level.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's.

[Billy Gardell]

That's like you actually get your robe when you can do that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And we're back to 750. Can't always do it.

[Billy Gardell]

That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

But, yeah. No, forgiveness is like a gift. It is that you give yourself. And prayer. Well, we're back to Fred Rogers. And not just the sweater, not just Pittsburgh, but when he would pray for people by name, I think just Always.

[Billy Gardell]

Teaching the right thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Look for the helpers, look for the helpers.

[Billy Gardell]

That's the whole philosophy my dad was giving me, you know, and I didn't realize that Mr. Roger Pittsburgh guy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Billy Gardell]

Come on.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. Every night. Well, not every night, but I would go, I'm so happy to be in the neighborhood.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And everybody would clap and I was like, you should be proud.

[Billy Gardell]

Yes. Oh, my God, he was the best.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Billy Gardell]

Never a bad thing about that guy. I know. And just always in the security.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding.

[Billy Gardell]

You know, I would love that. I kind of would have loved that. I would have loved that. He was all tatted up. But I, I, I was so taken by him when I was a child because it always felt like he was talking to you. And in Pittsburgh, you watched pbs. That was what we watched.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And I made sure that when my child was little, too, I, I filled him up with Mr. Rogers and, and then, of course, the old Warner Brothers cartoons and, and all the stuff. And in, you know, Schoolhouse Rock and the stuff that molded me. But Mr. Rogers was a fixture at our house, and I made sure it was a fixture at my house.

[Pete Holmes]

That's beautiful. That one didn't take with Leela. No, Leela's like, Where the Wild Things Are.

[Billy Gardell]

Where the Wild Things Are. Fantastic.

[Pete Holmes]

If you want to light my daughter up, show her.

[Billy Gardell]

That's another great something. Did you show her the movie, too?

[Pete Holmes]

We haven't watched the movie yet.

[Billy Gardell]

The movie's pretty good. It's a little scarier for the kids. And how old's your daughter now?

[Pete Holmes]

Seven. So that's a little early, but, like, she loves Beetlejuice. She just watched Beetle.

[Billy Gardell]

She, she. Michael Keaton.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that?

[Billy Gardell]

Another Pittsburgh guy, Michael Keaton.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Billy Gardell]

Pittsburgh.

[Pete Holmes]

One of the best.

[Billy Gardell]

The, the goat. The goat. The cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you ever do stand up with him?

[Billy Gardell]

No. I met him twice, though, out here just on lunch and what a down to earth Pittsburgh guy. There was an old Steelers. There was a Steelers commentator for many years in the 70s and 80s named Myron Cope. And he had, it was just one of those local guys, like he had his own thing, right? And he had throat cancer. And I was doing a table read for a movie that didn't go. And Michael Keaton was going to be the star of it. And I had an Iron City beer shirt on, which was a local brewery from Pittsburgh. And he walked over, she from Pittsburgh. I go, yeah. He goes, hey, Mike. I'm like, yeah, I know. And first thing I was About. Hey, did you hear about Cope? How's Cope's throat? Like just. We might as well been at a lunch truck somewhere on the corner. Just. But he's that kind of guy and you just can't not love that.

[Pete Holmes]

I've met him once and he gave.

[Billy Gardell]

Me that impression, just solid as can be.

[Pete Holmes]

And also Jon Hamm is that way.

[Billy Gardell]

I have not met. I met him once at a party briefly. And he was just very cool. Very cool.

[Pete Holmes]

But both. This is name dropping, but we're having fun. It's Keaton and Ham. We're both guys. Especially Ham. When I met him for the first time was when Mad Men was on. We're backstage at UCB and I look, I'm just good at my job, right?

[Billy Gardell]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But like I hadn't done anything good in my job yet.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's just say so nobody knew who I was. And that's fine. He was talking to me like I was Michael Keaton.

[Billy Gardell]

Those are the guys that I was.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, what is happening when you meet.

[Billy Gardell]

A guy locked in? When you meet a guy that's great at what he does or a woman that's great at what she does and they've influenced you in any way and then you find out they're a decent human. You're like, right on.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

This is possible. The biggest example of that while we're dropping these names all over the place for me was Jimmy Burroughs who directed Cheers and Taxi and Friends and I mean the Legend. And we had him for two years on Mike and Molly.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Billy Gardell]

Here's a guy at the top of the top of the top of the top. And the kindest man I have ever worked with in my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Edit that out.

[Billy Gardell]

Always, though. How are you, honey? Everything okay? You and Patsy saving money? You know, just kind. Because he knew creativity lived in kindness.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

And that's what he would always say. Creativity lives in kindness.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

Doesn't live in chaos.

[Pete Holmes]

The people that understand. And it sounds like I've never worked with him and I regret it. That understand the spacious quality to the creative pursuit.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When a group of people. When a group of humans. And I know you know this especially from a multi cam. Alaskans carving a canoe together or you guys on a multi cam set. I swear to God, some of these guys have almost a. I know it's not Alaskan shamans, but like a shamanic quality. Rick Rubin.

[Billy Gardell]

And you need that guy on the.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

And I love when I hear Ruben speak because whenever he's talking about an artist, he's like, I'm not interested in the most clever guy. I'm not interested in the most clever girl. I'm interested in an authentic point of view. Someone who knows who they are. That's what he looks for. And that's reassuring, too. And you were talking about something earlier about nothing's new under the sun. The way I kind of figured out that I could. Could make my noise was I saw. Remember that old VH1 show, Behind the Music?

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Billy Gardell]

All right. Well, they were interviewing Carlos Santana one night because I was trying to come up, like, what premise can I do that? Nobody's done nothing. They did it all in the 50s. They've done everything. But what made me realize that was he was talking about. He goes, we all have the same notes. We have to play. Play. There's so many notes. A, B, C, D, G, E, F. And all the sharps and minors. Right. But it's how you tune your guitar. That's why you can tell my E from Keith Richards E. You can tell his E from Pete Townsend's E. It has nothing to do. It's the same note. It's how you play your note. And that was like. That kind of gave me the freedom to go, I could just talk like me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

Because it's going to be the same premises, going to be relationships, politics, religion, topical. What? It's the same stuff we're all going through.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Billy Gardell]

You're not inventing anything new. But what makes it new is what you feel about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'll tell it real fast. Cause I'm loving talking to you, and I want to see what you do with it. But when I started this podcast, believe it or not, I started this podcast 12 years ago.

[Billy Gardell]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. And even 12 years ago, people were going, there's too many podcasts. Which we say that now. I'm like, it was like buying bitcoin when it was $7.

[Billy Gardell]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

But even then, people were like, they already have Marc Maron. Why do they need you?

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And, you know, young guy, kind of a flex. But I was like, because it'll be me.

[Billy Gardell]

But you have your thing. That's right. It'll be. And I didn't even know what my.

[Pete Holmes]

Thing was quite yet, but I was like, you can't. It goes back to Bill Hicks. If you're being yourself, you'll have supply and demand covered.

[Billy Gardell]

And you're gonna find your audience.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

And that's the beauty of Judith. You're gonna find Judy.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the Judy of the Internet, you're.

[Billy Gardell]

Gonna, you're gonna find your audience and like minded people and if you're trying to put good out there, you're gonna find that.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'll just say one more. Conan told me his whole career he was just banging on a triangle like a musical instrument, the triangle. And around him everyone's blowing on saxophones and hitting drums. And he was like, I just kept hitting my triangle and wow. And he's like, if you keep doing the same thing.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Someone will go all the way. Noise. What is that? I keep hearing that.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, let's go check that out.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't that good advice?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, it's great advice.

[Pete Holmes]

He has really good stuff. Yeah, he has really good stuff. So what is in. We'll wrap it up here because this has been.

[Billy Gardell]

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's turn the cameras on and do it.

[Billy Gardell]

We record.

[Pete Holmes]

I would be devastated because I've enjoyed this more.

[Billy Gardell]

Back at you. Thanks for having me.

[Pete Holmes]

Then you'll ever know. I just told you, when we talk about higher power, just because it's fun.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What does that mean for you?

[Billy Gardell]

Well, I grew up around Presbyterians and Catholics and that kind of worked for me a little bit. I was never a guy that didn't have any faith. I've always thought at the beginning of my life I thought God was out there. I didn't think he had any time for me, which is just incredibly self centered. But it took a long time to figure that out. But I found you just stole a.

[Pete Holmes]

Line from my act, by the way.

[Billy Gardell]

I did.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, if you don't believe in God, that makes perfect, perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is if you believe in God and think he's mad at you.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, well that was me and I, and, and the, the religion thing for me just because from being a kind of an alley kid, the numbers don't work. So if there's 3,000 religions, somebody's gonna be wrong. Yeah. So I, chances are, you know, we might all be sitting in hell going, who'd you think it was? So I, my, my take on it was. And this is just my belief that there's this loving thing that knows that I am not perfect. And if I have to be perfect in front of this thing, it doesn't work because then what would I bring it? So my feeling on God is. And I think that's what you're asking. It would be, first of all, my God is just unconditional love. Now when I pray it's like Buckshot. Sometimes because of my. When I grew up, I'll say in Christ's name. Sometimes I go right to the top, cut out the middleman. It doesn't matter to me. My idea of it is there's this thing that might appear if sought, in different ways to different people, the way they need it to appear to them. And that gives me a piece. But I do believe in that thing. I don't believe it gives you cash and prizes, but I do believe it gives you dignity, patience, strength and grace. And that's kind of where I live with that.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, that's my thing.

[Pete Holmes]

So, Father Greg Boyle, do you know the Homeboy books did he write?

[Billy Gardell]

Is it Homeboy? I think I have heard that. Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You'll love him.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't need to read it, but you'll enjoy it.

[Billy Gardell]

There's another one, Breathing Underwater.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that's Richard Rohr.

[Billy Gardell]

That's Rower. That's a fantastic.

[Pete Holmes]

That's Richard Rohr's hat. See that white hat?

[Billy Gardell]

Are you kidding me?

[Pete Holmes]

He's my spiritual father. I love him to death.

[Billy Gardell]

That is a serious. See, I knew we had a lot of fun.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know you loved him.

[Billy Gardell]

Rohr is his book. Really? His book. Let me not judge religion. That works for people.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

It took my judgment away from that because my experience wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't horrible either. But it had a little bit of a. I'm not sure. But he took that away from me, that book.

[Pete Holmes]

I took that away from Breathing Underwater. So Breathing Underwater is his interpretation of the 12 steps.

[Billy Gardell]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And he has this great line where he goes, we're all addicts. We're all addicted to our own way of thinking.

[Billy Gardell]

100.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, chills when I say that. No, by the way, on YouTube and for everyone watching, you can just watch. He gives a talk. It's like an hour and a half. I'm breathing underwater to look it up. And I would say it's. It's as good as the book.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, well, that. That book. Well, it's come from the horse's mouth. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's him doing it as a speech.

[Billy Gardell]

That book made me go, if this works for someone to go Sunday to Mass or go Sunday, that's none of my business.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right.

[Billy Gardell]

And I wish them. If that's making them a better, kinder, more peaceful person, all for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, yeah. All for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I'm also not religious, but I love Richard Rohr. So how confusing is that?

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, but that's me. I think, again, it goes back to your. If you're trying. Yeah, I'm trying. Yeah, I'm trying. You know, But.

[Pete Holmes]

So father Greg Boyle, who loves Richard as well and sort of looks a little bit like him, but is here in la, he has this great line where he goes, I think God is too busy loving you to have a plan. And I'm like, he just. Matt McCarthy, I would say infinite oneness, unconditional love. Can't know. Subject to object. It doesn't even really know about you, literally speaking. But that's. That's cold and scary. He just goes, it loves you.

[Billy Gardell]

Period.

[Pete Holmes]

Period.

[Billy Gardell]

Period.

[Pete Holmes]

And I had an experience where I was sort of talking with God. I was. It was on ketamine. I hope you don't judge that. Know, it was a beautiful. Okay, thank you. It was a beautiful experience talking to.

[Billy Gardell]

A guy who took a lot of LSD in the 90s.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But even as this is, after I got booze sober, I. I did this ketamine therapy, and I was asking. I was like, after all this non. Dual.

[Billy Gardell]

So you had, like, a guide take you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

See, that's the way you're supposed to do it. I named. Eddie, walked me out. It was a little weirder.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

I did a.

[Pete Holmes]

I did a bump with Eddie.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

No, this was.

[Billy Gardell]

You ever seen a glowing. Yo, Yo. Okay, I got four hours. Let's do that. All right, that's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

But I. I was, like, really had just gotten introduced to the idea that infinite oneness, if we can even call it that, doesn't know anything. It just is full of only itself. It just is love. And we're kind of having a dream that we're separate and all this stuff. But, like, it was lonely to think that God didn't know Pete. And I asked it. I was like, do you love Pete? Because Pete is like his imaginary friend. And it was like. Like, it was really beautiful to me. It was like. That's like asking the ocean, will I get this wet? Yeah, all I do is get things wet. Yeah, I am wet. I'm wetness. And it was like the funniest and.

[Billy Gardell]

Most profound, but it was a big revelation.

[Pete Holmes]

It was like, if my daughter says, this is my imaginary friend, she actually has an imaginary friend.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And she's like, do you love it? And I'd be like, I love it so much.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, that's.

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't matter.

[Billy Gardell]

It doesn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Real, unreal. It Doesn't. It's just love. It's a love that you can't divide or fathom.

[Billy Gardell]

100. And I don't want to fathom it. And the good thing is.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't want to fathom it.

[Billy Gardell]

I don't have to figure and I.

[Pete Holmes]

Don'T have to fathom it.

[Billy Gardell]

I tell my son all the time, man, I go, I don't care what you pray to, as long as it's not you.

[Pete Holmes]

That's good.

[Billy Gardell]

And find that thing. I go, the good news is you just have to seek it. It'll come to you. It'll come to you in different ways. Ways. Just seek that life. Seek that spiritual life, and it will come to you.

[Pete Holmes]

That's beautiful.

[Billy Gardell]

You don't got to find nothing because.

[Pete Holmes]

It turns out it's not. It's like we were saying about your favorite song, your favorite shirt. Don't just have something to tell you. But similar to your Count of Monte Cristo, you're. You're born into something and you need to escape.

[Billy Gardell]

Break out of the prison.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And that's not a flaw in the system.

[Billy Gardell]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

And if you're like me, you'll end up coming back to some of your traditions and being like, I like them.

[Billy Gardell]

In a new way. And you get to understand them better, too.

[Pete Holmes]

But. So Richard has a book called Order Disorder Reorder.

[Billy Gardell]

Haven't read that one.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's. They're all great, but he goes, that's the. It's called the.

[Billy Gardell]

I believe you have his hat. You're the only other person I've met who read that besides the guy who gave it to me. Wow. That's a fantastic.

[Pete Holmes]

My Breathing Underwater has somebody in AA their inscription to it because I bought it, used the divine dance. There's a bunch of Richard books over. There's like seven Richard books.

[Billy Gardell]

That book. Really. A friend of mine named Dick Kendall, an old Texan I knew, he goes, you need to read this. I suggest you do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Gave it to me and took about two years, and I finally cracked it. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Oh, my God. What a perception.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

What a perception this guy has.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I tell you? Just because it's so fun. He just is. Without deifying or sanctifying. I'm just saying. You were talking about Keaton.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Jim Burrows.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's add to that list. Richard.

[Billy Gardell]

It's got the default setting because when.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm with him, my. I tell the story all the time. But it's a beautiful story. When I'm with him, I watch him and I learn from him.

[Billy Gardell]

Like a child.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. And like a father.

[Billy Gardell]

Right. 100.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm not even Catholic. I call him Father. We go into the, I call him Richie as well. We go into the hotel and there's the guy who's, who's like the hotel manager. We're on this little road trip and he. And he just goes, look at you. Always here, always with a smile, brightening people's day. Hello. He just sees people. So then I come home, I'm like, all Richard is doing when we're saying like love people.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I saw a concrete example. Look at you doing this for free. You're lending your time. You're lending all of this hard earned wisdom for people to share and you're doing it with all this generosity and humor. What a gift. You are.

[Billy Gardell]

Right. But I only do that with people that I feel are like minded.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm glad that you feel safe.

[Billy Gardell]

I do. No, I do. And I just don't have time. I don't have time left on earth to be angry. And so that's what I'm trying to escape. You know, there's an old Paul Simon song off his last album where he said, I'm just trying to find a drop of inspiration and get rid of my anger before this is over.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

And that's where I want to go. That's, that's. I like a lame life. I've worked a long time to be lame and I enjoy it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

Very much. I like calm waters.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Billy Gardell]

It's not easy in today's world, you.

[Pete Holmes]

Know, I mean, again, this is why we love Matt. Matt and I are just like. We get to the club, they're like, do you guys need anything? And we're like, we need nothing.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah. Yeah. And I get to the club still and they're like, what do we need? Do you guys have coffee? Coffee? Yeah, I'd like coffee. Yeah, but if you don't, it's okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. We're trying to have as few needs.

[Billy Gardell]

That's all it is. And I think that's the way to go, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. That's beautiful. What was I going to tell you? Richard talking.

[Billy Gardell]

I'm going to check out a couple of these books. I will tell you that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the Naked now is a great book.

[Billy Gardell]

That's so cool, man.

[Pete Holmes]

It's one of the great gifts of my life.

[Billy Gardell]

When you find a great mentor and you feel, feel it's safe to learn there's nothing better on earth.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I tell you something?

[Billy Gardell]

Nothing better on earth.

[Pete Holmes]

I got it. Let's see if I can get through this without crying. So I saw this YouTube something this guy was talking about. When your father dies, it's a very tragic day for a young man.

[Billy Gardell]

There's a hole in you.

[Pete Holmes]

And he says, I'd love to hear more. But he says, because it's the death of the only man that wanted you to do better than he did.

[Billy Gardell]

Absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm so privileged. The abundance of riches. You wouldn't know. Richard wants me to do better than he does.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like I have a lot of.

[Billy Gardell]

There are those rare gems out there. And there are.

[Pete Holmes]

Again. I'm not saying he would hate to be sanctified. I'm not sainting him.

[Billy Gardell]

No, but I get it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just saying I've met numerous people.

[Billy Gardell]

I get that.

[Pete Holmes]

That want. Mirabai star wants me to do better. Richard Ramnath wants nothing from.

[Billy Gardell]

From you. Just success in your happiness.

[Pete Holmes]

Jim Finley. There are living. By the way, you should know. Jim Finley. There's just so many. Greg Boyle.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Father. Greg Boyle's entire life is, I want you to do better than me. And this is why we call these guys Father.

[Billy Gardell]

But they get it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

They get there. Here to be of service. That's right. And in that, they become powerful. Without ever trying.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Billy Gardell]

Without ever trying.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And that's why it's funny. If I had 30 seconds to describe Jim or Richard or Greg to you, I'd go, wizards. Wizards are real. Because they are real wizards.

[Billy Gardell]

They walk amongst us and they go like Frodo.

[Pete Holmes]

And they help you when you really need it.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But mostly they're just holding space and going like, it's your 100/50th birthday. Brought some fireworks.

[Billy Gardell]

Yeah, exactly. And that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I might. I'm gonna do it. I'm adding you to the list of wizards.

[Billy Gardell]

Oh, I don't know about all that. I'm a junior. We'll be junior. All right.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll be junior.

[Billy Gardell]

Junior Wizard.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll be juniors.

[Billy Gardell]

What. What do they call the Jedis that are trained Padawans?

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny because I was talking to Richard. He was talking about the archetypes. And there's the magician, the lover.

[Billy Gardell]

I always look at that list and then I never read it, but it always fascinates me. I see that all the time online. I'm like, I never dig into this.

[Pete Holmes]

Richard's into it. And he's like the king is the one that incorporates all of them.

[Billy Gardell]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

He told me that I was a magician.

[Billy Gardell]

What's that?

[Pete Holmes]

Magicians, we use our words. Comedians are obviously like, casting these little spells. These little. The charmer. The lovers are, I guess, Matthew McConaughey. I don't know. But, like, there's those.

[Billy Gardell]

The actors that always look like they need wiped off.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. The wet ones needs to wipe out.

[Billy Gardell]

Him and Bradley Cooper need to be wiped.

[Pete Holmes]

They need to be de. Moistened. And then there's the hunter. And. And the hunter is one of the ones that I needed to open my heart more to. But there. There are just hunters, and they're very useful. Sometimes you need that energy. You know, we don't always have an allowance for that because it's not always polite to have the, like, strong spearhead.

[Billy Gardell]

I wouldn't be that guy, I don't think.

[Pete Holmes]

But he goes, the king is the one that incorporates all of them. And that's our aspiration.

[Billy Gardell]

That's what we shoot for. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And he said, you're. You're on your way to becoming a king. And I. I feel like you're on your way.

[Billy Gardell]

Oh, thanks, man. Back at you.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it funny?

[Billy Gardell]

This was a really great, great time. I really enjoyed being on here.

[Pete Holmes]

I loved it. One of the.

[Billy Gardell]

Tell McCarthy.

[Pete Holmes]

I love him.

[Billy Gardell]

Talk to him.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, he made this happen, so. Thank you, Matt.

[Billy Gardell]

Thank you, Matt.

[Pete Holmes]

Follow Matt on TikTok.

[Billy Gardell]

There's some valuable, funny, funny man and a good, good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, fuck both of us. Find Matt McCarthy on TikTok. You'll be glad you did. Yeah, well, it did feel good to do. Doesn't always feel good to be out here just hawking my tour dates.

[Billy Gardell]

No, you can feel good about talking about Matt.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. Well, guess what? My tour dates are Matt's tour dates. So do. Do check out my door.

[Billy Gardell]

Go see Matt. And there's the bonus.

[Pete Holmes]

And also there's this guy. While you're gathering your things, I'll be on stage. Thank you so much. We have a pleasure. Honestly, Billy. We have the guests say, keep it crispy. Everything we've been talking about today is crispy. All right. I like. You can just say, keep it.

[Billy Gardell]

That's good. Keep it crispy. Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

You know when you're just going about your busy day and a voice asks.

[Billy Gardell]

You something like, why do people have crushes? Or do dogs know their dogs? The Brains on podcast is here to.

[Pete Holmes]

Help every episode answers tough questions with funny skits.

[Billy Gardell]

Cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Facts and more.

[Billy Gardell]

It's a science show for kids of all ages.

[Pete Holmes]

Whether you grew up with jfk, mtv, tlc, or tmz, brainson is for you.

[Billy Gardell]

Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn.

[Pete Holmes]

Backseat squabbles into harmonious car trips.

[Billy Gardell]

Find brains on wherever you get your podcasts.