Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — Guest: Bob Crawford (Avett Brothers)

Date: November 2, 2022

Overview

In this deeply moving and philosophical episode, Pete Holmes sits down with Bob Crawford, bassist and multi-instrumentalist from the Avett Brothers. The conversation weaves through themes of suffering, faith, community, music as spiritual experience, and the transformative power of love and presence—especially in the wake of personal and family adversity. Bob opens up about his daughter’s battle with brain tumors, the role of St. Jude’s Hospital, his journey with faith, and the spiritual underpinnings of music and connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Story Behind St. Jude and Bob’s Daughter (12:00–24:00)

• Background: Bob explains why St. Jude is a central figure in his life—his daughter, Hallie, is a patient at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital after being diagnosed with a rare brain tumor at 22 months old.
• Hospital History: Bob tells the story of entertainer Danny Thomas vowing to do something great for St. Jude (the patron saint of hopeless causes), leading to the creation of the iconic hospital, its fundraising roots in the Lebanese/Syrian American community, and its role in desegregating Memphis hospitals.
• Miracle and Tragedy: Hallie’s initial dire prognosis and the desperate hope that St. Jude represented.

Quote:

"We arrive at St. Jude with no hope, but the hope of St. Jude, the patron saint of the hopeless cause." — Bob (13:54)

2. Grappling with Suffering & Speaking Publicly About It (24:30–43:00)

• Trauma Becomes Testimony: Bob discusses the challenge and responsibility of making his daughter’s illness a public story—balancing honoring the real pain while also offering hope to others.
• Community Response: The kindness and support shown by friends, family, and bandmates during the crisis, including Avett Brothers’ members helping him through shock at the airport, showcases the communal nature of surviving tragedy.

Memorable Moment:
Pete reflects on how crisis "removes the distance between people," evoking Leonard Cohen’s line:

"The cracks are how the light gets in." (36:07)

3. Finding Presence Amid Anxiety & Pain (43:35–50:55)

• Therapy, Prayer, and Mindfulness: Discussion of Bob's practice of therapy, his wife’s steadiness, and how being present is essential to enduring trials. Pete connects this to spiritual wisdom:

"Anxiety is paying interest on a debt that isn't yours." (45:44)

• Small Mercies: Loving details—who held Bob, who drove him, who was there—mattered as much as medicine or solutions.

4. Suffering as Connection & Spiritual Growth (51:23–61:10)

• Radical Empathy: Bob expresses a longing for a world where suffering is seen as the glue that connects humanity instead of something to hide.
• Spiritual Awakening: Bob recounts the moment in the hospital when he unexpectedly led his friends and family in prayer—marking his own renewed commitment to faith and the Church, echoing the Abraham Lincoln quote:

“I found myself on my knees many times because I had nowhere else to go.” (53:38)

5. The Habit and Ebb & Flow of Prayer and Faith (61:10–68:26)

• Prayer as Muscle: Bob and Pete discuss how prayer and spiritual practices need maintenance and can ebb and flow. Bob shares he was once bitter—loving God but not people—and how his faith community brought him back to loving others.
• Mystery Over Certainty: They address the importance of embracing the mystery of faith, citing Iris Dement’s "Let the Mystery Be" and Catholic liturgy’s emphasis on mystery.

Quote:

"If you can figure it out, you haven't figured it out... with God and faith." — Bob (77:05)

6. Music as Church and Communal Experience (75:10–83:01)

• The Spiritual Experience of Concerts: Both discuss how Avett Brothers concerts—and live music more broadly—can mirror church and spiritual community, as audiences and performers merge in shared joy and catharsis.
• The Sacred Silence:

"The most amazing moment for me on stage is...when it's absolutely quiet, hushed. And it's that moment of just, like, silence in the middle of this whole thing. That's the loudest noise." — Bob (81:44)

7. Theology, Mysticism, and the Nature of God (83:01–100:16)

• Afterlife & True Self: They explore evolving concepts of God, the afterlife, the merging of all consciousness, and the "true self versus false self" as described by Richard Rohr and Thomas Merton.
• Spiritual Teachers: References to Henry Nouwen, Tim Keller, and others reinforce the idea that deep spiritual growth is less about dogma and more about transformation, presence, and unity.

Quote:

"When I pass, I think...you become united with that energy...all the love you've felt in your life...you're all merged." — Bob (85:56)

8. Lessons from Disability, Caregiving, and Childlike Presence (101:53–110:32)

• Hallie as Teacher: Bob describes his daughter’s disabilities as a window into immediate presence and joy, unburdened by cultural striving, achievement, or ego.
• Sanctity of Care: Getting his daughter dressed becomes a sacred act, offering a tangible experience of God’s love:

"When do we experience God?... One of the times that I feel God, have felt God repeatedly, is like, getting her dressed." — Bob (105:24)

• Pete sums the essence:

"Merging with God is not difficult for those who have no preferences." (107:15)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Handling Anxiety:
  “Even in 10 out of 10 nightmare suffering, you can slow down and drop anchor into the present and deal with it. And that's biblical, too. The concept of God not giving you more than you can handle...slow down.” – Pete (49:03)

• On True Spirituality:
  “The primary focus, the point of spirituality, of religion, is to get you to identify and get you in relationship to your true self...to know who you are in God.” – Pete (93:01)

• On Joy in the Mundane:
  “She teaches me, right? Because if I want...the Hallie I want, I'm gonna be angry and bitter forever, and I'm gonna burden her. But if I can get into Hallie's world and see the world the way she sees it, that's a good place to be.” – Bob (102:19)

Standout Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 12:00 | Story of St. Jude Hospital and Danny Thomas | | 25:00 | How Bob began sharing Hallie’s story publicly | | 43:35 | Therapy, anxiety, and learning to stay present | | 51:23 | Suffering as a bridge between people | | 61:10 | Discussion on the ebb and flow of prayer and faith | | 75:10 | Spirituality of live music and audience connection | | 83:01 | Deep dive into theology and the "true self" | | 101:53 | Parenting, caregiving, and spiritual transformation | | 105:24 | Experiencing God in the simplest acts of love |

Lighthearted & Memorable Exchanges

• Name-Dropping Joy: Bob shares backstage memories (David Crosby, Bob Dylan, Rick Rubin, Ringo Starr, etc.) and pokes fun at the reputation of "name-dropping" (117:13–122:56).
• Shared Laughter: Both recall uncontrollable laughter with friends and bandmates akin to childhood sleepovers, and Pete’s story about a nude portrait in Scott Avett’s studio (124:39–125:47).

Conclusion & Tone

The episode is sacred and silly in equal measure. Pete creates a space for vulnerability and philosophical exploration, honoring Bob’s candor about suffering, uncertainty, music, prayer, and love. The tone fluctuates organically from deep contemplative honesty to levity and camaraderie—mirroring the human experience itself.

Closing Words:

"Keep it crispy." — Bob Crawford (127:04)

Useful for anyone seeking an unvarnished look at faith under pressure, the spirituality of music, and the transformative beauty found in presence, suffering, and love.