Forrest Galante

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Forrest Galante
Release Date: August 21, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Pete Holmes welcomes wildlife biologist, adventurer, and TV host Forrest Galante. Together, they dive deep into Forrest’s wild life—literally—and discuss everything from the interconnectedness of nature to close calls with dangerous animals. Along the way, Pete explores themes of happiness, technology, culture, conservation, and the weirdness that underlies us all. The conversation is rich with humor, memorable stories, and thoughtful insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Who is Forrest Galante? (01:41–03:35)

• Forrest’s Role: Wildlife biologist, educator, and communicator who travels the world working on conservation projects and mitigating human-wildlife conflict.
• Approach: Grew up in Zimbabwe, learned to collaborate with indigenous communities, and now seeks to balance conservation with cultural respect.

Navigating Cross-Cultural Conservation (03:35–05:12)

• Education vs. Imposition: Forrest stresses understanding and negotiation over imposing Western perspectives.
• Core Principle: “We all want wildlife on the planet, right? It makes us better, makes the planet healthier, makes everything better.” – Forrest (04:08)

Interconnectedness of Nature & Importance of Predators (05:51–08:31)

• Sharks as Bioregulators: Without sharks, oceanic balance collapses, affecting oxygen and food sources.

  “If sharks disappear from the planet… we’re dead.” – Forrest (06:23)

• Seafood as Global Nutrition: Oceans supply the main protein source for 91% of people globally.

Humor & Humanity: Survival Show Tactics (07:44–10:18)

• Pete and Forrest banter about survival shows like "Alone," discussing real strategies vs. ego-driven ones.
• Notable Observation: Art and homemaking matter for survival—“Why do we make art? It's so you don't just jump off a cliff… people lose hope if there's not something to, like, look at and enjoy.” – Pete (09:53)

Myth, Balance, and the Roots of Overconsumption (10:36–13:23)

• Discuss ancient myths about living in equilibrium with nature.
• Cultural Roots of Resource Use: Industrialization and religious doctrine (e.g., dominion over animals) shifted humanity to overconsumption.

Invasive Species and Responsible Consumption (13:41–14:51)

• Forrest’s Solution: Eating invasive species like wild boar helps restore ecological balance.

  “You can eat ten kinds of meat a day. Just eat the right ones.” – Forrest (14:51)

• Systemic Obstacles: Realities of farming, economics, and slow-moving subsidy changes.

Factory Farming and Environmental Despair (15:00–16:49)

• Pete laments factory farming’s harm to communities and the environment.
• Forrest discusses the need to avoid “ecophobia” and focus on solutions, not just doomscrolling.

Optimism, Proactivity, and Small Solutions (17:31–19:00)

• Optimism in Conservation: “All hope is not lost. This planet is incredibly resilient, incredibly beautiful, and with small amounts of effort…” – Forrest (17:33)
• Emphasis on realistic, gradual change rather than guilt or “grandiose” lifestyle shifts.

Technology, Happiness, and Planetary Health (19:00–22:51)

• Pete theorizes that increasing general happiness would improve care for the planet.
• AI and Conservation: Forrest discusses cutting-edge use of AI to interpret animal behavior from drone footage and suggests AI may help in conservation—while warning of technological pitfalls.

  “AI will be the same as with cell phones… there's good and bad with all these things.” – Forrest (22:39)

Animal Sentience, Ethics, and Lab-Grown Meat (24:03–27:45)

• Pete raises the potential for communicating with animals via AI, which could challenge ethical boundaries.
• Forrest is skeptical of lab-grown meat, believing natural dietary connections to the earth are important.

Nature Connection, Grounding, and Lifestyle (27:45–31:23)

• Both agree on the psychological and physical benefits of time outdoors and "grounding" themselves.
• Forrest shares that even with a science background, he feels worse in offices and better outdoors.

The Lost 80s: Human Connection Before Devices (34:39–38:39)

• Extended riff on how pre-digital life in the 1980s was arguably the “peak” for balancing tech, connection, and happiness.

  “I feel like [the ’80s] was like the peak of Western humanity, or at least American civilization. Because we weren't staring at a device all day long.” – Forrest (37:23)

• Technology has streamlined tasks but increased stress and reduced meaningful connection.

Present-Mindedness in the Wild (54:07–56:01)

• Forrest explains that high-risk fieldwork demands utter presence and focus, unlike the distraction-filled modern world.

  “When you’re tracking that animal… you are only living in the now.” – Forrest (54:50)

Generational Differences and Hope for the Future (56:20–58:02)

• Suggestion that younger generations, exposed to tech from birth, may be less drawn to it—an analogy to European attitudes to wine.
• Hope that society will rediscover the value of nature and presence.

Near-Death Experiences & Adventure Stories (58:10–68:35)

• Dramatic Highlights:
  • Two plane crashes (lightning strike, bush landings in Zimbabwe and Panama)
  • Stung by a man o’ war, bitten by sharks, chased by hippos, run-ins with armed rebels
  • Close call: hippo charge in Colombia while mitigating Escobar’s invasive hippo population

  “Every time I work with hippos, something bad happens. Like, hippos are so scary.” – Forrest (68:35)

On Dangerous Animals & Dramatic Animal Work (68:35–78:21)

• Hippos: Most dangerous large land animal; Forrest works on controlling their Colombian population.
• Sharks: Real but manageable danger; bites happened due to his own mistakes during animal studies.
• Conservation fieldwork regularly involves unpredictable dangers (armed interventions, wildlife, weather).

Dragons, Bigfoot, and Misunderstood Animals (78:04–83:19)

• Viral “dragon” clip: Forrest clarifies that dragons were likely cultural archetypes, not literal animals, though he notes the global consistency of dragon myths.
• Cryptids: Entertaining, but Forrest remains skeptical.
• Most Misunderstood Animal: Pandas, which aren’t cuddly but are “vicious, dumb as dirt, the worst parents in the world”—yet have amazing “PR” (82:01–83:36).

Extinct Species Forrest Would Visit (84:01–86:28)

• Pick: Thylacine (Tasmanian tiger), extinct marsupial wolf.
• Forrest outlines its tragic history and his fascination with its behavior and unique evolutionary niche.

Happiness, Contentment, and the Human Condition (96:01–end)

• Forrest describes how children in remote villages are often happier and friendlier despite material deprivation—community and presence matter more than needs or possessions.
• Pete reflects: “The secret to happiness is not meeting all your needs… [it's] belonging, being present together.” (98:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shark's Importance:
  “If sharks cease to exist on planet Earth, we’re dead.” – Forrest (06:23)

• On Proactivity in Conservation:
  “If we can be a little bit proactive, we don’t have to be reactive. We don’t have to wait until the sky is falling to try and fix things.” – Forrest (18:26)

• On Nature and Modern Life:
  “When I come home and I go to my office, I start to wilt… It’s like a physical manifestation.” – Forrest (31:11)

• On the ‘80s:
  “I feel like that was like the peak of Western humanity… technology to help us get stuff done, still connecting with people on a personal level.” – Forrest (37:23)

• On the PR of Pandas:
  “Pandas have the best PR campaign in the world because they are so dumb… [and] vicious.” – Forrest (83:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Forrest’s origins & style (01:41–03:35)
• Conservation and cross-cultural negotiation (03:35–05:12)
• Vital role of sharks and ocean in human survival (06:14–07:44)
• Humor: Survival tactics & gender (07:49–10:18)
• Ancient myths and ecological equilibrium (10:36–13:23)
• Factory farming despair and solutions (15:00–18:26)
• AI & animal communication (21:59–23:18)
• Lab-grown meat & ethical quandaries (24:03–27:45)
• Technology and best life era riff (34:39–38:39)
• Near-death adventure stories (58:10–68:35)
• Clarifying the viral “dragon” clip (78:04–80:31)
• Pandas’ bad behavior, misunderstood animals (82:01–83:36)
• Happiest children have the least (96:01–98:28)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rollercoaster from educated environmental optimism to wild adventure tales and deep reflection on happiness, technology, and society. Forrest Galante is candid, passionate, and occasionally hilarious—a living reminder of the awe and weirdness that surrounds us and the importance of direct experience in both nature and human connection.

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Transcript

[A]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with weird.

[B]

Yes, you did.

[A]

Made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Forest Galante. Galante. Who is Forest Galante? Well, you probably know if you clicked on this episode or maybe you don't. I didn't until I heard him on another podcast and I thought he was fascinating. He is an American outdoor adventurer. He's our first adventurer. He literally risks his life. He goes on these. We're going to hear about a bunch of them. Daring expeditions, seeking out primarily almost near extinct animals. I should have just said near extinct, not almost near extinct, near extinct animals. He's also the host of Extinct or Alive on Animal Planet. Mysterious Creatures with Forest Galante. And he's also on Shark Week, which is something I just did, which is how we thought it would be fun to connect. Now, is it still Shark Week? I don't think so, but anyway, here's Forest Galante. I'm so glad you guys are here. I'm currently touring. Go to PeteHomes.com for tickets. The next shows are Washington, D.C. boston, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Washington state, St. Louis, Cleveland, Florida, just all of Florida. Doral, Florida, at the Miami Improv, Chicago, Pennsylvania, New York, New York at Town hall on November 14th, and then November 15th in Atlantic City. And I hope to see you guys out there. It always means so much to have weirdos out there supporting on the road. So hope to see you. In the meantime, enjoy this wonderful chat, chat, chant, chat with the wonderful Forest Galante. Get into it.

[A]

Good. I'm stoked to be here.

[B]

Well, great. Okay, now we can start. That's our natural intro.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I was just saying thank you. In general, I'm glad you're here.

[B]

It's really nice to meet you. I've never met a real life adventurer. Yeah, isn't that what you are? I mean, you're like. What is that video game? My favorite video game. I can't remember it. It's called, you know, it. Fuck My Face. Indian Jones.

[A]

Oh, like Unchart, Uncharted. Yeah.

[B]

I always want to call it Fallout, but you're like real life Uncharted.

[A]

Thank you, that's an honor. I mean, I get all kinds of titles. Biologist, wildlife enthusiast, expert adventurer. I don't know.

[B]

The last one was the most interesting, though. Biologists, people go like, oh, this guy's looking at cells under a mic. Crisco. Nobody likes that.

[A]

Totally. And I don't know anything about that.

[B]

Wildlife enthusiast. Now I feel like I feel bad because there's things. The world is so. The environment is so screwed. And you probably know exactly why. Yeah, yeah. And then adventure. I'm like, okay, he's running around with dust on his leather jacket.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Let's go with that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you really.

[A]

A lot of that.

[B]

Okay, so I was listening to you on another podcast and what I was craving was like, I don't normally do this is, will you tell us who you are and what you do? Because I was looking for my footing. It took a while to figure it out.

[A]

Yeah. My wife never knows how to answer that question. Yeah.

[B]

How do you answer it?

[A]

Well, I say I'm just a lowly wildlife biologist, but the reality is, at this point, I think I'm a wildlife communicator or educator. So I like to travel around the world, work in some of the most remote and hostile environments, work with indigenous and tribal people to expose incredible wildlife. And it doesn't matter if it's human wildlife conflict, whether we're working on mitigation methods, looking for extinct species, working on translocations or relocations. Basically any wildlife that needs exposure and needs help. Yeah, I work on those projects.

[B]

Okay, thank you. Got it right off the bat. I'm like, how difficult is that to navigate when you're dealing with, like an extreme cultural difference? Like if they're like, we eat dolphin fin or whatever, and you're like, hey, stop doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you, as an American, like, navigate that? Seems like it could be politically very touchy.

[A]

It can be. And there have been people that have been upset and offended by things that I've done. I mean, pretty small, not really, like, broad things, but I grew up in Zimbabwe in southern Africa, so I learned how to work with indigenous people, with tribal people. The. As far as the cultural customs go, I think one thing that we can all agree on, I don't care what side of the political coin you fall on, social coin, you fall on whatever it is. Whether you're left, right, red, blue, it doesn't matter. We all want wildlife on the planet, right? It makes us better, makes the planet healthier, makes everything better. So sometimes it takes education or figuring out very complex issues, whether that's governmental or conservation based or whatever it is, and going, hey, I know you've been killing X for this many years, but just don't do it here. Like, if you just leave this one little patch of forest alone, then all the animals, once they reproduce, will breed over and Right outside your village, you'll have more things to hunt. And if you can educate people that way and just say, look, I know you've been doing it a certain way for this long, but you want it to be sustainable. You want to be able to hunt or kill or eat or fish or whatever it is forever. Here's a way to do that so that you can continue to grow your family, grow your culture, be. Grow everything. Just do it this way as opposed to a blanket. Like, we can kill everything anywhere.

[B]

I'm already so interested. That was really interesting. We can end the podcast here.

[A]

Okay. But that was good to see you, Pete.

[B]

All this way. No, I'm just like. It was very interesting to hear you say, you have to think, just basic negotiation, like, what does everyone want? We want wildlife.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's interesting to think of the planet as a body. And wildlife is almost like white blood cells or red blood cells. It's, like, good for the whole system.

[A]

Very much so.

[B]

Which is tricky. Sometimes I do that. I'm like, the planet smokes. You know, the rainforest is like our smoking cigarettes all the time. Like, we're not a very healthy planet if it's a body.

[A]

And it's a good way to think about it. It's very intuitive of you to realize it's a body. But everything on the planet is connected. A mosquito in the Arctic, a lot of people think there aren't mosquitoes in the Arctic, but a mosquito in the Arctic is somehow connected to the air in the Amazon. You know what I mean? And everything is connected. And I think we all understand that we need all these things, like, one thing that people never think of. Pete, you just did Shark Week promo, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I just did a couple Shark Week shows. If sharks disappear from the planet, you and I, your producer over here, our families, they're gone. Really gone. If sharks cease to exist on planet Earth, we're dead. What? Yeah.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because sharks are bioregulators for the ocean. They have what's called a trophic cascade. They control the ocean.

[B]

I know. A trophic cascade.

[A]

Pardon me?

[B]

No, keep going, Keep going.

[A]

But if sharks cease to exist, the oceans become imbalanced. The ocean is our largest producer of oxygen on the planet. It's also our largest producer of food on the planet. Those two things go away. We go away.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, and people forget that we're killing sharks. At a rate of fact, check me on this. It's like 8 million sharks a year or something like that. Right?

[B]

Because of accidental, like, tuna Poles?

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Because we're just killing.

[A]

We eat them. The shark fin soups, a big trade in Asian countries.

[B]

I'm sorry, it's just no soup. No soup can be worth this.

[A]

Especially when you think about shark fin soup as might as well be human ear soup. It's just cartilage.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

That's all a shark fin is.

[B]

It's just the same stuff.

[A]

Same exact stuff.

[B]

Yeah, brutal. Yeah, brutal.

[A]

But isn't that crazy to think we're that connected to a shark?

[B]

Which, I mean, see, I knew that about, like, bees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, bees know these. That's the T shirt and it's plants.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But I never thought of ox. And seafood is, like, so much of our diet. Is that what it is? Or is it algae or what?

[A]

No, it's something like 91% again, fact check. That number of the world relies on the ocean for their main source of protein.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, so. Yeah. So seafood is the majority source of protein for the majority of the world.

[B]

Yeah. I've watched. What's that alone?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[B]

They're always going to the. To the river. The river pays out. So the people that are chasing the land animals, I'm like, that's really cute, bro. Like, good luck.

[A]

They spend a month, like, lobbing arrows at things and some guy goes down the river and catches eight salmon and you're like.

[B]

Or you just have a. There's just a net in a current and they check it and they're like, there's all these fish in it. And the dumb guy that wants to be the hero chasing the boar.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm like, first of all, something's going to steal it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You kill it.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

It's the dumbest. Look, I would last half an hour on that show, but I know my strategy would be go to the ocean.

[A]

Go to the water, and you need.

[B]

The fat and all that sort of stuff. Like, it's good.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's a good livable thing.

[A]

You're underselling yourself. I think you'd last a good. Good 24 hours.

[B]

You know, my. I think I'd be good at keeping myself safe. Insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I wouldn't be good at all the survival stuff, but I'd be good at being alone.

[A]

Are you good? Are you good in that kind of environment? Like, I don't do well when I've got no one around for a long period of time.

[B]

I. Maybe I'm flattering myself. Maybe I would go, absolutely not.

[A]

Yeah, more.

[B]

More Nuts. I actually now. Sorry. I want to get back to your fascinating life. But I think I would go the castaway approach. I would make a God. I would talk to it.

[A]

Like, talking to inanimate objects.

[B]

I would build, like, a universe. I'd be like, well, I have to talk to this guy. Like, just pass the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'd have a rich culture, dude.

[A]

I could just imagine. I could just imagine you, like, throwing jokes at a volleyball. And it's just. And you're like, I told you. That was a good.

[B]

Yeah. I would do little shows. You'd have to. The people see that there was a guy on a loan that was like, figured out, like, how little he could move. And he was like, because if you move, you burn calories. So I'm just going to stay still. I was like, you're not going to make it.

[A]

No way.

[B]

The women have a so beat on. I'm saying, including you as a guy. It's not like you've been on that show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the women murder on that show because they understand. Like, I'm gonna make a beautiful place to be. Like, you have to want to live.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

And that's what art is, too. It's like, why do we make art? It's so you don't just jump off a cliff. I'm not even trying to be funny. It's like, people lose hope if there's not something to, like, look at and enjoy. And historically, on that show, it's always the women that are like, I made a sauna.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? And the guys are like, don't move.

[A]

I'm right.

[B]

Now, you'd be useful in a hunt. But, like, you're not good at making life worth living.

[A]

You. You have to. You're 100% right. And that's why, you know, women, for the most part, make better homemakers and everything else. Because you need to live in that joy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Otherwise, what are you living for?

[B]

And that's been. Yes. Encourage. I'm certain men can and could do it. And there's got to be more of that. For sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's interesting when you were talking about the balance of. Of sharks and. And don't hunt over here. I'm. I'm a Joseph Campbell person. I like myths, and I'm always. There's so many myths about equilibrium.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whether these are ancient myths.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where there was an intuitive understanding. They're always like something like a buffalo. A hunter falls in love with a Buffalo, it turns into a woman, they get married. But it's about. It's about. It's a way of understanding an alliance between humans and animals. And the buffalo says the buffalo's okay, I'm losing it. But the woman who was a buffalo, her father, who is a buffalo, says, you can get married because they're in love, but you have to, like, spare a certain number of us every year. It's exactly what you're saying with data.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't kill this. And then you can have buffalo all year. Native cultures had stories that said the.

[A]

Same thing, and we've always understood that until industrialization, which is crazy. And then it was like, just take, take, take. And also, not to dig at any one religion or nation or anything else, but part of the Bible, and I haven't read the Bible since I was very young and forced to in school, but part of the Bible says that wildlife and nature and animals were here for our harvest dominion. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And so during the Industrial Revolution, it was like, how fast can we evolve technology to consume wildlife, consume animals, consume the planet?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was under the guise of, well, Christianity says, this is put here for us, buddy.

[B]

Look, I don't think we're dragging Christianity. It's fair game.

[A]

No, I'm just saying what was fact.

[B]

I'm letting you off the hook. Don't feel weird about that. Because the same thing was done with slavery. There's just dodgy stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because it was a long, long, long time ago.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But there are these. These. You know, you got to leave some of these parts, the slavery parts, obviously. And I don't think we had that nuance with the animal parts. We just used it as a trump card to just do whatever we want.

[A]

Well, and think about it. Because, yes, certain native peoples appreciated in things, but when the Bible was written and those times were written, the human population was minute. We didn't even think. Extinction wasn't even a word that was known at that point in time. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

We didn't have a concept for that.

[A]

How could human beings ever kill the last bird or kill all. It didn't make sense. It felt infinite. So in order to expand and grow, which is what a lot of Christianity stood for, having good ethics and good morals and good values. Take those things that God has put on your plate and use them so that you can expand and grow. That was great to a point. And then it's like, well, wait a minute. We need to adapt, you know, like, we need to Adapt our approach so we can continue to expand. Yeah. Way too good at it.

[B]

I don't know where you're at, but, like, should you be eating four different animals every meal?

[A]

It's a good question, you know, if you know where those animals come from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, you should eat all the wild boar that's harvested in America. You can. All the lionfish, all the iguana, if you want to be adventurous. You know, all those things.

[B]

Why are they picking these?

[A]

Because these are invasive species. So these are species that have been brought here by us, released, shouldn't be here, and are harvested or taken. And every time that happens, that actually helps native animals.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So there is a balance. You know what I mean? Everything. That's what's so great about what I do. Yeah, that's it, man. I'm not even kidding. Go out and get them. Yeah.

[B]

Why doesn't McDonald's have a boar burger then?

[A]

Because it's expensive. Way more expensive to go out and hunt down a boar, a wild boar that's causing billions of dollars of agricultural damage than it is to farm a cow.

[B]

I mean, doesn't that seem like the government could incentivize it? I mean, like, aren't we making, like, corn? Super. Like, I think I'm going to. We're going to fix this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like, couldn't you somehow. Isn't that what subsidies are? I don't know.

[A]

It's a good question. Starting to, you know, like, in the state of Texas, they have eradication efforts to shoot the boars. They fly helicopters. It's like a video game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And mow them down and stuff. So they're starting to do that. Other states, they'll give you $5 a carp, which is another invasive species, so on and so forth. So it's starting to come around. Yeah. But it's like. I guess my point is you can make your cake and have it and eat it, too. You know, you can.

[B]

Your whole thing.

[A]

You can eat 10 times of kinds of meat a day. Just eat the right ones. Or you can be a vegan or, like, there are good ways and bad ways to do all of these things.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It is troubling. And I have. I've actually. I'm not a vegan anymore. I eat a lot of vegan food, but I can't call myself a vegan anymore. My wife was just like. She just. She's with me all the time and she's like, pete, stop saying you're a vegan.

[A]

Yeah, we literally Just left in and out for. You're not a vegan.

[B]

You're out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, damn it. But I am still sensitive to factory farming and, like, the way we're doing it. And it seems like that would be in line with everything I've heard you say so far, is like, okay, you want to eat pork? Can we find a better way to do it? Like, I don't know if you watched any of those really haunting Netflix fucks the neighborhood and, oh, yeah, what to do. I don't even want to talk. It's too. Fuck. It's depressing. But that's like, if you live near where they're farming pork, you're in trouble.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And that's just like a Forget the pigs. I mean, we can talk about the pigs, too, but it's like the whole community. Talk about being interconnected. It's not just, like, happening in some magical bubble. It's hurting all of these people around as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unhealthy. Yeah. Pink sludge and spraying the feces everywhere, and people are getting sick. It's like Aaron Brockovich. It's like, yeah, this is killing this whole community.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And we're like, yeah, but bacon is good. Like, it's really fucking nuts.

[A]

It's crazy. But my whole thing. And we got straight into the heavy stuff out the gate, which I like, but it's heavy. Is this stuff doesn't need to be depressing. Like, I hate ecophobia. You know, I hate the idea of waking up, opening the newspaper, and it's like, the world is ending. Global warming. The icebergs are melting. You know, we're all gonna go underwater. The storms, it's like, we get it. It's a page turner. I don't want to read it. I don't click on it on Instagram. Like, it's a page turner. It's instead. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[B]

No, I was just. I was agreeing with you. It's clickbait. It gets you engaged.

[A]

Maybe, but it's so.

[B]

It's not true. I'm saying it's more sensational.

[A]

It's very sensational, but it's so demoralizing, and it. It puts a message of, like, all hope is lost out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, global warming. We'll all be underwater in 10 years and can't go outside. It's like, enough already. You know, it's not that some of that isn't true. It's just, let's look for solutions and silver linings and ways to make things better as opposed to just the doom and gloom of, like, new study says icebergs will all be gone tomorrow. It's like, yeah, okay, so how do we not do that? You know, as opposed to just putting out all of this negativity, which seems to be like this vicious media cycle that we're stuck in.

[B]

So you're optimistic?

[A]

Very, yeah. Very. Yeah. All hope is not lost. This planet is incredibly resilient, incredibly beautiful, and with small amounts of effort. Here's the thing, Pete. Like, I don't want to sound too grandiose, but we as a species, human beings, we're reactive. We're not proactive. We wait until the car starts making a weird sound and start clicking and breaks down before we take it to the mechanic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We don't just take it to the mechanic because. So if we can be proactive in helping with these problems, and that doesn't mean changing your whole lifestyle, never having a burger, never using a plastic bag. It doesn't mean anything like that. Be realistic. You know, don't. Don't be this, like, grandiose. Like, I can. I have to ride a bike, you know, across the country because I don't want to drive my car. That's silly. But if we can be a little bit proactive, we don't have to be reactive. We don't have to wait until the sky is falling to try and fix things. We can just do little things every day now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whether that's around conservation, environmentalism, it doesn't really matter. That can make such a big difference that we don't have to do this doom and gloom stuff all the time.

[B]

Right, right, right. Yeah. That's interesting. It reminds me of the. I think Tony Robbins talks about this. We'll do more to gain. We'll do more to avoid pain than we will to gain pleasure.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

That sounds like what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like we. I don't want to just get a checkup because I'm fine. You wait until something's wrong.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But we should be getting checkups and then you'll be all right.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I mean. I mean, that's.

[A]

That's the metaphor anyway. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

We're back to the Earth being like, a body.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which also brings me back to, like, I wonder if we can really dramatically increase human lifespan if people will start caring about the planet more. Because I think there's, like. When I see politicians being reckless.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're usually like old white guys, and I'm like, yeah, they're on their way out. Right.

[A]

They've got 20 years of life left.

[B]

They're putting their dick on everything they can while they can. They're like in a falling elevator. And it's hard to get someone to really. It takes a certain kind of intelligence to go like, no, you will die and, and we won't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, I kind of think they're solipsistic and they're like, no, when I'm dead, it's over.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or they're narcissistic or both.

[A]

They just don't care.

[B]

Or they don't care.

[A]

They just want to make their mark.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it. So when I think about a more. Let's think of our Star Trek future where AI is coming up with, let's say, or we are with solutions that are helpful. One of the things that we need to do is get human beings happier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And better, taken care of and living longer. And then I think you'll see, you know what I mean? When you quit smoking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the, the rainforest is being burned down at an alarming rate and has been pretty much our whole lives, but it's to get cattle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's fucking nuts. Burning down our lungs. So we're polluting our air and burning down the thing that creates our oxygen.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It's literally something an alien would go like, but that a Vulcan would be like, but that is illogical. It makes absolutely no sense. But like, oh, I'm losing my train of thought. I'm saying we want to stop that. I think when someone quits smoking, like if someone wins the lottery. Right. I give you $10 million. Better chance you'll quit smoking because you'll be like, I like this. I want to go like when I, I'm not dragging or making fun of Larry David, but when you hear Larry David eats like three cashews a day and only has wheatgrass, I'm like, yeah, he's got a dope ass life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's trying to keep it going.

[A]

He's trying to maintain. Yeah.

[B]

And again, I'm not trying to put anyone down, but somebody that's like really lost hope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Probably eating whatever they want. Probably drinking, probably smoking because they're not doing so well. They're feeling depressed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So if we can get humans happier, I think we'll see more care for the planet. That was a really long way to make a pretty basic point.

[A]

I think it's true though. I mean, I think if you're happier then it's easier to contribute and to.

[B]

Care about Something outside of you.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

We're just like, great. Like the joke of, like, yes, save the wills, save the humans.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That was the comedy take through all of the 80s.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

We were just like, what about the guy I just saw?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you're not wrong.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We can get that, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But, like, then more people will care about the planet if we can get them in that Larry David lifestyle.

[A]

I think that's true. Yeah.

[B]

And maybe artificial. Where are you on artificial intelligence? Do you think it'll help the environment? Do you think it's possible to come up with some good solutions?

[A]

Oh, I mean, some of the tech that's coming out in AI. Like, I was just working with this woman who I'm friends with and brag. Well. Yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

[B]

I have female friends.

[A]

Yeah. I hope everybody heard that. No. And she's doing this. So she'll take drone analysis of herds of elephants. And then it looks like something out of Star Trek where they're analyzing each head movement, each step, each shoulder position, and going, well, this one's the matriarch, and she's saying that there's water four clicks this way. And this one's a Betta, and this one's an Omega. And it's all done through AI, Right. It's basically interpreting elephant language. And so I think that there are going to be just like everything. Just like cell phones. When cell phones came out, it was like, oh, this is awesome. Now we can all talk to each other. Yeah. But we're now also all addicted to porn and social media, so, you know what I mean? It's like there's good and bad with all these things. So I think is going to be the same.

[B]

It's like there's going to be elevant podcasts. The matriarch has their own show, and.

[A]

That part will be good, but then there'll be bad parts too.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that'll be excellent podcast. Oh, I see what you're saying. So we are going to unlock stuff, but there's always going to be some fallout. Yeah, but that's fascinating. I mean, that was one of the early things I would hear about is the potential of, like, translating whale language or dolphin language. But it sounds like they're doing it with movements.

[A]

Lots of things. Yeah. Head movements, shakes. I. For Shark Week. I probably shouldn't even talk about this, but next year, one of the programs that I want to work on is using AI to analyze how hammerheads speak to each other because of some weird new observations. About the way hammerheads flick their heads. I actually think there's body language in the way they talk.

[B]

Really? Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And that would be on an AI program. Because humans can't do that observationally. Because if you're in the water staring at the shark, it's changing its behavior.

[B]

Okay. This is crazy. So we started by saying that Native American cultures have myths about buffalo talking to us and being like, let's make a deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We might be approaching a future where literally we talk to the cows.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

And they're like, we get it. We're delicious.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But let us have Arizona.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you give us this, we'll give you our most annoying cows.

[A]

Our worst cows.

[B]

We'll give you the worst. But, like, there are implications if we start. And again, keep in mind, I had chicken yesterday. This isn't a vegan agenda. I'm just saying one of. One of the things that's fascinated me is why we eat animals. I've done a lot of jokes about it. They never make a special because they always end up being too preachy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's because we think they're fucking stupid. Like a chicken is a dumb fucking bird staring at the sun. We can't discern what it's doing. And having been a vegan for so long, I'm aware of the arguments. Like, cows have friendships. Elephants, we talked about them, will mourn. They have funerals big time. They'll go back to the site of a dead person that they loved every year on the anniversary. But if you get them talking like the fucking dog in up.

[A]

Yeah. Right. With the little translator. Hi.

[B]

If a pig could just look at you and say good morning.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You'd find a different breakfast.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

You would.

[A]

I mean, or just accept it.

[B]

Be like, I don't know, man. If a pig was like, oh, no, come on, man.

[A]

Come on. As he's going into the conveyor belt.

[B]

Or are we so still, like, Old Testament?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That we're okay with would be hard.

[A]

I don't know. I mean, and I, I. So I've never been a vegan. I literally had a steak for dinner last night.

[B]

You've been a vegan the whole time you've been here.

[A]

That's true, actually. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Non smoker and a non drinker.

[A]

Yeah. But I don't think it's that. I think you're right. And I appreciate that argument. I appreciate that side of the side of the story. And I think the more people that choose not to eat meat, the better. I also Think it's okay for people to choose meat? Like I was saying earlier, it's just be aware that these are, they're not sentient beings. They're not all, you know, and they're not idiots. Like they're just. Some animals are more intelligent.

[B]

You don't think they're self aware?

[A]

Yes, I agree with that.

[B]

A chicken wouldn't be like, I am a chicken.

[A]

I think, I think that's true.

[B]

I think they're more simple.

[A]

Well, maybe they will be.

[B]

I mean, maybe way they're more simple than that.

[A]

But that's true.

[B]

Look, don't we, we know that pigs are like three year old children.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

That would mean they're sentient.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. Actually.

[B]

I don't know, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't mean to put you on the hook.

[A]

No, I don't care.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think we're just two dudes talking about 100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What I'm interested, I'm interested in seeing like what will happen. Do you think there's a way around this? Do you think the Earth, like almost in a science fictiony sort of way, could we clone meat? Could we somehow find a way around it? Food synthesizers I think so. Do you think the Earth would allow it almost in a mythological way, man?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Would we start getting like sick in some way because we belong?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Like if we're eating something printed molecularly.

[A]

I think we'll get sick.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

I do, yeah. Because I mean, they're already making lab meat. Right. You can grow meat in a lab in some of these places. And I think that every time we come up with that, there's a positive and negative reaction, you know, it's like, oh, cool. Like the planet. Now we don't have to farm cows because they're being created in lab, they're being printed, whatever it is. I think our cells will be like, no, that's not it. We've evolved evolutionarily to need to eat meat in a certain capacity, get enough protein. You know what I mean?

[B]

It's like now we're like to the Earth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's like a flow and a rhythm to it.

[A]

I believe that, I really do. And I'm. I come from a science background, but I believe in like I, like we're saying earlier, that connectedness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You need to walk barefoot, you need to eat some meat, you need to get some real sun.

[B]

You grounded, guy?

[A]

Not, not hugely, but I never wear shoes, so, you know.

[B]

Oh, Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[B]

Is that a Zimbabwe? I'm not trying to be funny. It sounds like something maybe you picked up in Zimbabwe.

[A]

I mean, I grew up on a farm, so. Yeah, well, maybe just growing up on a farm anywhere. Yeah. I mean, and I live in Santa Barbara on, you know, a medium sized piece of property, so I never have shoes on at home, so I just never wear shoes. But it's not that I'm grounding or I worship the sun and I want to, you know, tan my gooch or whatever people are doing nowadays. I just think that you need to have connection to the natural world and that makes you healthier.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I used to be, before I had kids, way more into, like, grounding, like, sinks you. And now I'm just like. It feels good. It just sing in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stand barefoot on grass, looking at the sun. And then you look into the science of it and it's like good sleep actually starts in the morning.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

If you look at light exposure, you'll sleep better that night. And how many things like that are happening that were completely including what you're eating, including your relationship with everything.

[A]

Because with our technology, like we talked about earlier, we have evolved. We think we're above that. Right. We're sitting in a completely artificial environment right now. Everything. No, including me. Including you.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Yeah. You're a simulation, Pete.

[B]

No, but we have air conditioning.

[A]

But that's what I mean, you know, the lighting's artificial. The paint on the walls is artificial. Like, and it's no different in my.

[B]

Radiation in here that are completely freaky to our ancestors.

[A]

Totally makes no sense.

[B]

It probably. Sorry, I'm not trying to cut you off. I'm trying to load you into that thing. Like a prehistoric person in this room would be deeply uncomfortable.

[A]

Oh, lose their mind. This would feel like a trap. Right. You feel like you're trapped in a cave of things you don't understand.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Be crazy.

[B]

Which reminds me of psychedelics. When you're on psychedelics, which is so, like, ancient, they're like, see the horizon, right? Like, be able to see where you are because you go into, like, a prehistoric part of your brain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Don't be trapped.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Outside. Exactly.

[B]

See where water is.

[A]

Don't feel closed in.

[B]

Don't feel closed. Don't feel trapped because that part of your brain gets lit up and it'll go like, there's a bear after me.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So go on, whatever you got.

[A]

I don't. I just was What I was gonna say is, do you follow Gary Breca at all?

[B]

No.

[A]

So Breca's awesome. He's like a big biohacking health and wellness guy. Really nice guy.

[B]

I'm a huberman man.

[A]

Oh, I'm a loyalist. Same world, same world.

[B]

I got that stuff from huberman. But tell me about. Bend it like Breckham.

[A]

Yeah, that's it. Gary Breca, he says nature is medicine. I think that's his saying, or connectedness is medicine or something like that. And again, I come from a science background. Like, I'm not all hippie, dippy, you know, like into all that, that kind of connectedness stuff. But I have never had to seek that out because my job and my career and my lifestyle is outdoors, barefoot, in the sun. Usually I'm trying to get out of the sun or I'm trying to avoid the mosquito bites, or cover up, not go out and expose myself to it, because I'm on the opposite side of the coin. But I could tell you, as someone who does live on that opposite side of the coin, when I come home and I go to my office, like I was just in my office this week in New York, and I sit inside in air conditioning, in light, staring at a computer screen all day, you start to wilt. I wilt. I totally do. And you see it. It's like a physical manifestation. Like your skin gets pale. That's not a good sign. You get bags under your eyes, your eyes turn bloodshot. You know, you get back aches from crunching over the computer. Like our body's telling us the planet is telling us this is bad. Go back to the other thing. And we're like, no, no, no. Look what we've built. This is great. It's crazy.

[B]

Pardon the interruption, weirdos. Obviously, I am not in my house. This is a hotel room. And obviously I brought my ritual for men, my multivitamin and my symbiotic probiotic. Symbiotic plus, pre, post and probiotic. Also by ritual. Because I am absolutely obsessed. I see so many supplements when I'm scrolling, claiming some weird proprietary formula that's just like a super secret bullet to good health. But they do not tell you what's in it. They don't tell you where it's from, they don't tell you how it's sourced. That's why I love ritual. It is essential for men 18 and over. It's a multivitamin with science backed with traceable and bioavailable key ingredients. They share the source, the supplier, and the Scientific research backing each active ingredient so you know what you're putting in your body and why. And bioavailable is key because as a delayed release, so many people that I talk to say you, you take a multivitamin, you can see it turns your pee bright green and it just flushes out of your system. Ritual is different. Breaks down in your lower intestine where it can actually be absorbed. So that delayed release is good for two reasons. It gets into your body for real. For real. And two, it doesn't upset your stomach if you take it without food, which is huge. It has science backed multivitamin like I said. Omega 3 DHA, vitamin D3. So many people are deficient in vitamin D 10 key nutrients in two delayed release capsules. So essential for men is a quality multivitamin from a company you can actually trust. You can get 25% off your first month for a limited [e-mail] weird that's ritual.com weird for 25% off your first month. I swear by it. Get it in your life. Also I'm in a hotel, but you can see here. This is my modern mammals. These are modern mammals ketchup packs. These are their trial packs, their travel packs. I love modern mammals. It's the only thing I will use to wash my hair. I call it the non shampoo shampoo that washes, that cleans your hair like shampoo but won't dry your hair out like shampoo shampoo. And that's exactly what it is. For years if I wanted my hair to look and feel good and have just a little bit of hold, the secret was to not wash it. That way the natural oil would stay in there and it would have the look that I wanted. But of course after a few days of that gets disgusting, your hair turns into like a grease trap from an Arby's. Enter modern mammals. The non shampoo shampoo that cleans it but doesn't strip it of all of all of the oil, leaving just enough to make it look perfect in about six seconds. So I don't even put product in my hair anymore. Modern mammals, it's the six second solution to perfect hair. It has that hold, it has that flow. It is an absolute, absolute game changer. And you can try both of their products, the magic mud which is what is in this pouch and also their bar which is amazing for daily maintenance go to modern mammals.com weird and you can get a special combo deal and try both the bar and the bottle for 44 bucks. Lasts a really long time. Go to modernmammals.com weird. It almost seems like. Well, I'm sure it has been sort of like sold to like slowly, like boiling a frog. Slow is like, no, it's good. Get money so you can go on vacation and get these micro doses of like the beach.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or sunlight or rest.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, when did we get so far from being on a log sharing food? I. I'm not, I'm not saying every lo fi human system is good. They were warring and all that sort of stuff.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I'm just saying we've lost.

[A]

Is that connectedness.

[B]

The Louis CK bit where he's like, why do we're talking to God? And we're like, well, we had to go to work all the time. He's like, why? To get money. Why? To get food. And God goes, I left that shit on the ground.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. There was food exactly everywhere.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

Yeah, why are you doing that?

[B]

And we have just kind of made the system of keeping it over here and letting you have a little bit. Totally send me on vacation.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

Really fucking bizarre.

[A]

It makes no sense. Again, if aliens like you said earlier looked down at us, they'd be like, what's wrong with these people?

[B]

It doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Yeah, they're like, they're doing it all wrong at all.

[B]

And then even camping of seems like, really, you're gonna go be in the woods? Like even more than it used to be.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

I feel like in the 80s people were camping all the time.

[A]

More. Yeah.

[B]

And now it's like there's no wi fi.

[A]

Well, right. And now you need to have your Starlink on the roof of your million dollar rv, you know, with. So you're sleeping inside and temperature control.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, with your sleep eight mattress. And it's like, wait a minute, this isn't. You should just be on the ground over there and you'll be happier.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm reminded of like some Amazonian tribes that will like, if you're really depressed, will bury you in the earth and like talk about grounding. Like really, just like literally. Literally. And also like kind of like a weird. Not weird, but an unusual death ritual that really makes you face these things psychologically and maybe gives you some zeal afterwards. I don't know. But what happens so that person that is in. In the office, which is millions of.

[A]

Us with the bags, myself included.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. What. What are some strategies to get around that, obviously?

[A]

Well, okay, so first of all, I want to answer Your question. But I don't think we should also only glamorize. You know, it's not like every tribe in Africa or the Amazon or, or wherever is living this beautiful, stress free, healthy life. It's a balance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I don't think we should be in an office all day in artificial light. I also think if you, you know, live in a famine area, in the desert, you know, in a hut, getting sun all the day, that's bad too, you know, you're gonna have other health issues.

[B]

Of all people, Bono was like, I'm not anti capitalism. He's like, I go to parts of Africa where I'm like, let's get some capitalism right.

[A]

Bring it over.

[B]

He's like, let's get some of like the balance right. Like, we don't have to go to the full extreme.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, we could use some commerce, we could use some money coming into this area and, and self sufficiency or whatever. I'm trying to get what he was saying.

[A]

I think. You know, it's funny you said like, the 80s, I, I feel like. And look, I was born in the 80s, so I feel like that was like the peak of Western humanity, or at least American civil. Yeah. Because like we weren't staring at a device all day long. We had a little bit of technology to help us get stuff done.

[B]

Oh, my God. This is a great theory.

[A]

It's. I. I'm making it up as I go here.

[B]

It's great. You could have a car phone.

[A]

Yeah, you could have a car phone.

[B]

But its battery life was very short and you couldn't really talk for very long.

[A]

And you were a big deal if you had one.

[B]

Right. But if you really needed help.

[A]

Right. You could get it.

[B]

You could get it.

[A]

That's right. So it's like, it was right there, but we were still connecting with people on a personal level. We're going to the bar, going to the restaurant, going to picnics.

[B]

Going with you so hard. One of the things that's weird is as I found more success in my life, I needed less things. Obviously, you're taking care of yourself. So I feel like, oh, I feel sufficient. Right then I noticed so much of my early, like my 20s, I was desperate. I needed people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I didn't mean to, like, use people, but I needed to make alliances and.

[A]

Yeah. Contacts. Yeah.

[B]

Who books that and all this stuff. Now I'm at a cruising altitude. I love it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But when I was younger, I had more relationship because I had more needs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So in the 80s, we had more needs.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then we were forced. I still remember, look, it sucks, but it also. It's your life being lost. And who helped me. Going into a gas station and someone helped me. It was great. Still have, like, a vivid memory. And what I got from that was so much more than the directions. It was like, there's a person.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We recognized each other's humanity and need. He felt useful.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

He was probably like, I helped that young man today.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I felt helped. He got to help, and I felt helped. And now fuck off.

[A]

Yeah, totally. Personal connection over a help like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you pulled up to me at a gas station and I like to think of myself as friendly and helpful, we're like, hey, where am I going? I'd be like, google it.

[B]

Yeah, look it up.

[A]

Like, why would you. But that's.

[B]

Sometimes people say, what's your favorite restaurant in town? I'm like, yelp.

[A]

Yeah. Like, why are you asking me this?

[B]

I don't know what you like.

[A]

Yeah, there's a million. And you can look at. Look it up and type in your preferences.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And now what I think is even crazier. And I had a terrible experience with Uber last night. You rate people.

[B]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like your Uber, Airbnb. Rating the guy.

[A]

That's who you're rating? You're rating the guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, I got out and I called my wife when I got. I went from laughs to a hotel. So I found this out. I'm being insensitive here, but I got in the car. I usually. I sit like this a lot, Pete. That's, like, how I'm comfortable sitting. I got in the car. Very nice car. Like, nice. Uber, Tesla, whatever. Sat down like this, and the driver was here, and I'm in the back seat here, and he turns back to me and goes, are you uncomfortable? In, like, a very heavy Middle Eastern accent. And I was like, no, I'm fine, thank you. Like cars. Lovely. And then three minutes later, he goes, why you sit like that? You know? And I'm like, just comfortable. Like, it didn't even register in my brain. Two, three minutes later, he pulls over. He goes, you must find other cars. And I was like, why? What's wrong? I was like, is it because of how I'm sitting? He goes, yes, get out, car. And so I got out of his car, and I was like, sorry, Take care. Turns out he. I told my wife about this, and she's like, you're. Something's up Let me figure it out. So she Googled it.

[B]

Can I guess?

[A]

Yeah, please.

[B]

Because when I went to Israel, I read a book about culture. It's like, don't show someone the bottom of your bottom of your feet.

[A]

You got it. You figured it out.

[B]

I human Googled it. But I. I can't believe he didn't just. Well, I guess maybe he could have said, you're showing me the bottom of your foot. And that's rude to me.

[A]

I had obviously insulted him. And of course, I'm just sitting here like this, being like, how did I upset this guy? And then, you know, I wasn't gonna fight him and be like, no, I'm staying in your car. I was like, okay, sure, I'll grab another car. And then I stood on a crappy part of LAX, like, curbside for 30 minutes waiting for another. No, we were like, two minutes out of the Uber lot there. And anyway, I obviously offended him by showing him the bottom of this fairy shoe that I'm currently wearing. And. And so he kicked me out of his car. And my instinct back to our point was to pull out my phone. I didn't do it in the end. And be like, this effing guy kicked.

[B]

Me out of his Uber.

[A]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm glad I didn't, now that I know it was a cultural thing at the same time. We're in the U.S. we're not in Israel or wherever he's from.

[B]

It would have been nice to explain it, but maybe the language.

[A]

Yeah, there was definitely a limited language.

[B]

How sensitive we're both being.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If this were the 80s would be like, this fucking guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I think this is great. Maybe he didn't know how to explain it. Maybe he didn't want to.

[A]

I think I didn't want to. Oh, really? Yeah. That was the impression I got. But regardless of that, the fact that I could then go and rate a human being on a phone and potentially ruin his business.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Like, he was rude to me and I was upset, but if I gone and give him a one star review, it's. That's like crazy.

[B]

I don't want a virtue signal, because maybe I'm just an idiot. I had a guy falling asleep while he was driving me and Val. And Val was pregnant at the time.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

We ended up ending the ride early. We're just. We'll go here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was so tired. I felt bad for him. I was like, please go get some sleep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I still gave him five stars. I've never. Not I've. But that's, that's like a share of the wealth. My life is so good, you know what I mean? And so nice. And I'm not gonna go like, fuck you, guy. You know, so overworked that he's asleep. But I mean, I could hear someone in my mind, my friend going like, yeah, but he needs to learn that. He needs to get rest. So you should punish him. Yeah, I don't know. I can't do it.

[A]

I left no rating. But my. I was angry enough that I was about to because I didn't have an explanation. I didn't understand. I didn't know about the cultural thing. Don't look at the bottom of the shoe. And it's just crazy. Like that never. Like you said in the 80s, probably would have been like a yelling match between me and that guy.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

He would have been like, put your foot down, it would be fine. And he would have driven me on. Do you know what I mean? And nobody would have rated anybody.

[B]

You're right. It wasn't even confronted.

[A]

No, it's all non confrontational.

[B]

When is a behind screens that are like, don't show me the bottom of your foot. And you're like, I didn't know, I didn't know.

[A]

But it would have been over.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get to go where you're going. Yeah, that's so funny. I just brought my daughter. We were going to do a staycation because my wife had a bunch of people at the house and I. She's six and I took her to this hotel in town and we're so excited. I kept telling her, daddy, daughter, hotel date.

[A]

It's nice.

[B]

So fun. Pool, check in. Pool. Yeah, we check in, we're going up the stairs. The manager starts running after us. She wasn't there when we were checking in. And she goes, Mr. Holmes, Mr. Holmes. And it makes the story better. I thought she recognized me and was gonna upgrade us.

[A]

Yeah, totally. Like, yes, that's me.

[B]

That's important to the story. If someone in a hotel goes, Mr. Holmes. Mr. Holmes. Yeah, I'm sorry, Conditioned. I'm about to get a cheese plate.

[A]

Oh, totally. You're like, yes, that's what I thought.

[B]

I was like, oh, good, I'm showing all my cards here. My daughter's gonna be like, daddy's the coolest. I'm about to get some sort of. We have a special room for you.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

She goes, the hotel is 18 and over and so we had to leave. Oh, no, and my daughter immediately starts crying. She's embarrassed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And rejected. And I'm holding her and she's. And we just had to get our car that we had just valeted. Leela's crying and they're like, you can come for dinner. This is as angry as I got. I was. I was very like, it's not your personal policy.

[A]

It's the policy.

[B]

It's the hotel's policy. I understand. She's like, you can have dinner on me tonight. And I was like. Like, no.

[A]

Right. You're like, absolutely.

[B]

We're not coming back.

[A]

I will never set foot in this establishment ever again.

[B]

Are you a dad?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

You're completely reading my mind. In my mind, I hurt my daughter. I'm not gonna come have zucchini fries here. We will never be here again. And we left. But you have that impulse. If I'm being honest, it gave me understanding to all these. Sometimes I read 1 star Yelp reviews of Starbucks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to laugh.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Always there. And they're always. Personal respect issues.

[A]

Yeah. This. Yeah.

[B]

And. And what it said about them and how they felt in their value.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, what idiots. And then when that happened, I had to do all this, like, ego repair. Totally on me. To be like, it's okay. I'm not.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

It's just a play. My daughter got over it way faster than I did.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You're still talking about it.

[B]

Exactly. It did happen like two days ago. But I did. Okay. It was on Thursday. I couldn't believe how sensitive we all are. Anyway. In the 80s. But I didn't leave any review.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's good. So you're a better. You're.

[B]

No, no, no, no. You did it too.

[A]

I didn't leave it. But I thought about it and it's just crazy to me that that is even a thing. And that's why I say, I think the peak of Western of American 80s.

[B]

Well, we had penicillin. We had like. You know what I mean? Like, we were pretty good. Medically good.

[A]

Medicine, good enough. Technology, good enough. Still had human connection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Still had better economy and lived better. As a general rule. Bigger middle class.

[B]

I'm going to say it, man.

[A]

Let's go 80s.

[B]

No email.

[A]

No email.

[B]

No email.

[A]

Chef's kiss. I hate email.

[B]

I feel like, you know, Your birthday is one day after your March 31st. March 30th. I'm not like an astrology person, but I was like, maybe we'll have some sympathetic feelings.

[A]

It's over emails.

[B]

I hate emails. I hate texts.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I hate all of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I only reply to texts when I'm in the bathroom and my daughter will come in the bathroom as little kids do.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I don't like her to see me on my phone. I feel like.

[A]

Right. You like hide it immediately. Yeah.

[B]

So I hide it and I just don't reply to text. Like a terrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Text. All of my tech. I've said this a million. They all start with, sorry for the delay and I can't stand it. I'll say this in defense. Two things in defense of technology. We could say a million. One is my dad. I can see his picture over there on the wall. Used to just write in a notebook what he had to do. And I think he's like me. I think he might have some ADHD kind of stuff. I'll just do it. I'll go like, fuck. I gotta tell my team this.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Email right now. Done. That's pretty dope. Moment scattered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't have to write it down. He couldn't read his writing later. Like he didn't know what was going.

[A]

To remember what it was.

[B]

Led to a lot of stress.

[A]

Yeah. But it didn't matter because it was the 80s. He was doing a bunch of coke, he was partying. It didn't matter. And he was that human connection and.

[B]

Everybody else was as fucked as he was.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Yeah. Now if you. If you don't respond to it. I had this experience literally 4 days ago where one of the guys that works with me comes into my office and goes, so and so didn't respond to an email. And I'm like, oh, when did you email him? He goes, this morning. And that is.

[B]

That's insanity.

[A]

That's not about Jimmy who came into my office and said that that is the place that we're at.

[B]

That's where you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I've had people follow up on a text and they wrote me at 10am and then they're writing me at 3pm and it's not time sensitive.

[A]

No. And you're like, sorry, this is not that important.

[B]

So I don't know why Tony Robbins is on my mind so much today. I think it's cause you brought that thing up about avoiding pain instead of. Or that's how I heard it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Two things. If you had a day planner in the 80s, you were kind of a psycho. Like you had a calendar.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

You were a psycho. Like, what are you, a goody Two shoes.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You're writing down your homework, dork. Yeah.

[B]

We had to wait until, like, Christmas to get our calendar for the next year. The wall calendar.

[A]

That's right. That goes on the fridge. Yeah.

[B]

And if someone in November wanted to make a plan for the new year, it'd be like, I'll write that down after Christmas when I get my new calendar. You'd. Fucking nut job.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I have stuff in my calendar from three years out, like some sort of, like, don't forget to replace this filter or something. It'll be in my calendar. You couldn't do that in the 80s.

[A]

No, forget about filter.

[B]

Just didn't get changed.

[A]

They didn't even know what the days were for that year yet because they hadn't made the calendar yet.

[B]

It's absolutely true, by the way. How close? Oh. What Tony Robbins says is, the main thing with scheduling is discerning what is important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And nobody cares anymore.

[A]

No, it's not. Is everything.

[B]

It's just everything.

[A]

It's just everything is on the calendar.

[B]

Everything is read.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Urgent.

[A]

This 30 minute, this 30 minute, this hour, this 30 minute, block, block, block, block. Yeah. All terrible.

[B]

Bright red in your calendar. And you're like. He's like, you can liberate yourself very quickly by just going like, this doesn't have to happen.

[A]

Well, you know. So here's an interesting thing, which is crazy, by the way. Our mutual friend, James Peshara.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I spent a weekend at his place, like, maybe six weeks ago. My wife and I and our. Our kids and his family. And he told me something, you know, pretty successful guy. And he goes, I don't take meetings anymore. I was like, what do you mean, James? Like, you're running a big business. Like, you're busy. Busy as anybody. He's like, I don't take meetings anymore.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, that's. You're lying to me. He's like, no, if I need something, I do a loom, which is like a recorded, you know, like, here's what's going on, like, on a computer. And then he sends off a video. He goes, I haven't scheduled a meeting in almost two years. He's like, if I want to do something, I'll reach out, but I will not take a meeting. I won't take a phone meeting, a zoom meeting. I don't do meetings. And I was like, you're nuts. And he's like, try it. So I tried it for two days. I couldn't do it because of the industry I'm in. But I tried it for two days, and there's something very freeing about opening up this thing that we just talked about not doing, but opening up your phone, looking on a calendar, and you got nothing on a Tuesday. You know, you got nothing on that. And you're like, whoa.

[B]

It's funny that you picked Tuesday. Tuesday is my nothing day.

[A]

Really.

[B]

I'm in a very, again, very fortunate place. Monday, we'll do these podcasts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tuesday is always my. Like, if there's some dumb thing I don't want to do, do it on Tuesday.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

And kind of have nothing, but. Yeah, you got that sensation.

[A]

It was crazy.

[B]

And you loved it.

[A]

I loved it. I kind of live that way right now because it's. It's not conducive to the industry I'm in.

[B]

Still don't quite understand. We got to. I'm going to follow up with him on that.

[A]

Ask him about it. Ask him how he doesn't take meetings. I don't get it. It's crazy. Like, for. Said you don't take meetings.

[B]

Should we FaceTime him and ask him?

[A]

You could try. Let's see if you.

[B]

Let's see if he picks up. We need more detail on how you're not.

[A]

Let's try.

[B]

This will be a podcast first.

[A]

Yes. This is great.

[B]

He is the kind of person that might answer.

[A]

Yeah, if he sees it. I bet he'll answer.

[B]

And he probably won't.

[A]

Yeah. And this is going to be interesting. We're gonna be like, we're making fun of you on air, James.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. He's not gonna. He would answer it right away. He's probably in a meeting.

[A]

Yeah, right. The meetings he doesn't take and no luck. No, I think he keeps his phone on do not disturb.

[B]

Me, too.

[A]

So do I. Yeah.

[B]

I think that's just a dude that might be so high up. Like, there are people that need an answer from you.

[A]

Yeah, that's probably the difference. Like, my whole business would cease to function if I didn't take meetings or send meetings. Yeah.

[B]

I think we'll get more. We'll get an update on that.

[A]

I still appreciate it. I think it's really cool.

[B]

And I don't see a lot of people making that effort, even, like, having my phone. This is the hot tip. I. I share as much as I can. You can put your phone on do not disturb. Then you can make a group. Like, I have a group called Family. It's just val.

[A]

And then you turn notifications on for that.

[B]

For Val.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Even if it's on do not disturb. So if I'm talking to you and I feel a vibration, I know it's Val.

[A]

It's important.

[B]

And if I hear. If it's going, like, three, four times or she's calling.

[A]

Right.

[B]

She's locked out of the house or something's wrong with the dog or whatever it is. So you answer it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But the rest of the time, everything else can wait.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Everything else.

[A]

Exactly. And it used to. Back in the 80s, back when we had motherfucking 80s, dude, it used to wait.

[B]

I think you're right. What?

[A]

It's a hot take.

[B]

It is a hot take. But I mean. And I haven't. I'm not the first to make this, but, like, it's not the movie. We live in a time now where we think it's the movie. We want the movie to be amazing. In the 80s, we knew it was like, who am I gonna watch this movie with? We're all gonna go to Blockbuster together. I know we sound like old guys. We're gonna look for it. We're gonna be disappointed that Terminator 2 is out. All 50 copies are rented.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then that's only gonna make us even more desirous of seeing it.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

And that's the human experience. The human experience that we don't get anymore. That's stopping for directions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you must see that in the natural world, when you're, like, stalking an animal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're living in the real.

[A]

You live in the now. I think that's the difference. Right. Even going back to, like, James, not taking meetings and whatever we live in. My opinion, yourself as a successful guy and myself running a small business and everything. We live in the. What's coming next. Okay, I finished that meeting. What's next? What's my next trip? What am I planning for? What's my next conservation mission, whatever. But when you're on that. And I'm just talking from personal experience, when you're on that trip filming crocodiles, catching hippos in Colombia, whatever I happen to be doing, you're. When you're tracking that animal, like you said, you are only living in the now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There is no cell phone. It doesn't matter if your wife's car is broken down. It doesn't matter. You know? And I love my wife. I want to help her. If her car breaks down.

[B]

In a certain. In a manner of speaking, you're free of all of that.

[A]

You're free of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're Free of it.

[B]

You.

[A]

You have one thing on your mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can, you know, meditate or think about whatever you like. You could think about, I hope my wife's okay. But you are focused on following those tracks, looking for that hip.

[B]

It's dangerous to not be present.

[A]

And you're in the present. You're living in the present. And something about society, whether. I don't know if this was the case in the 80s or not, but now you are always living in the next thing. You're always thinking about what's coming next. What's my next phone call, my next meeting, my next appointment. But not when you're in nature. Not when you're focused on something in the wild.

[B]

And you can die if you're thinking about something.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

In fact, those people did die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now only the distractible people are breeding.

[A]

That's right. Isn't that crazy?

[B]

We're thriving the most.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we have seven businesses. Because we have.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

All these.

[A]

You're pulled in all these directions, and our culture rewards.

[B]

That's right. You're less present. Less present. Less present. Less present. Less present.

[A]

And I don't know what the solution to any of this is. These are just observations. As someone who studies animal body language and behavior for a living.

[B]

Yeah. But it's interesting to think. I mean, there might. I hold out hope that my daughter's generation, maybe the one after it, I don't know, will kind of go like, oh, we're starving, we're deprived of something, and there might be a resurgence in, like, nature stuff.

[A]

You know what I've seen that I think is interesting? Our generation, we are old guys at this point in time.

[B]

You said blockbuster for fun.

[A]

I'm gonna speak for myself and not you here, but I'm definitely addicted to my phone. I wake up, I grab my phone, I see what's on my calendar, blah, blah, blah. I have coached rugby. I didn't get to do it last year because I was traveling too much, but up until last year, I've coached youth rugby for 10 years. So I've seen kids grow up. They start at like, age 7 or 8 and they go till they're 18, and then they go on to college and stuff. And what's so interesting is when I started coaching rugby, all the kids had phones. Okay? I'm talking 8, 10 year old kids had phones. And that first generation, they'd, you know, get a water break, they check their phones. They'd walk onto the field checking their phones like you and I Probably do. If you're walking to Starbucks, you're on your phone. Right. But the new generation, the kids now that have grown up with it, they're callous to it a little bit. I feel like their brains have not got, oh, shiny new thing. I'm sure you remember a time before social media. I certainly do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now social media is like, ooh, this new shiny thing. But I think maybe if you grow up with exposure to it, it's boring. It's boring. It's not as like, I got to be on it. I got to check it. I got to look at. Exactly. It's wine in Europe. Wonderful analogy.

[B]

Yeah. You know, we always had that. Who cares?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You're slamming as many drinks as you can get. But you grow up with wine in Europe, it's like, yeah, I might have one with dinner, but whatever.

[B]

Oh, I hope that's true.

[A]

I hope so, too. Yeah.

[B]

Because we were the. We're the generation. God, I hope we're not the most obnoxious generation for talking about this, but we lived a lot of our lives without it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then we got it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And now everybody, from now on will have had it.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

That's a different experience.

[A]

But where that one little in between where we went from not having something to now having it unlimited.

[B]

Right, right. I hope. I hope people do. Tell me about your experiences. I imagine you've almost died a bunch, unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the time you almost died? That was something I was excited to ask you.

[A]

Oh, man. I mean, I've been in two plane crashes.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. What happened?

[A]

Okay. I was gonna do a whole prattling list.

[B]

You can do a list.

[A]

I'm glad we stopped there, but go ahead. Well, I mean, look, I've been in two plane crashes. I've been a big car wreck. I've been stung by a man who wore jellyfish, mulled by lion, charged by hippos, stung by stingrays, bitten by sharks. Twice. I thought I rubbed snake venom in my eye once, and I didn't, thankfully. Yeah.

[B]

And you still do Shark Week.

[A]

I love it, man. I got a new scar from Shark Week on my hand this year.

[B]

You got mauled. Okay, we should have just only done this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. The plane crashes. Small planes. Big planes.

[A]

Small planes. Small planes.

[B]

Like four seaters.

[A]

One was a 12 seater, the other was a six seater.

[B]

Wow. And where.

[A]

One was in Zimbabwe, Northern Zimbabwe, and the other was in Panama.

[B]

Okay, so you've been in two plane crashes. So the second one where you were like, I remember this.

[A]

No, were you looking around, going like, first timers? Yeah, here we go.

[B]

Yeah, this is fine. We'll be fine.

[A]

No, the first one was much worse. We got hit by lightning. All the instruments went out. Then when we came down to land with no instruments.

[B]

In a storm.

[A]

In a storm.

[B]

It didn't like sneak up on you. Did you take off in a storm?

[A]

No, it was a long flight. Took off, you know, back in the days before a lot of good high tech radar and all that. My mom was a bush pilot, so I grew up in Zimbabwe. So we're always flying into the bush to run safari businesses. And first one was literally over the limp. Wherever the Limpopo, I don't know. In that region. Got stuck. Plane got struck by lightning. What is the 310? What's that?

[B]

When it gets struck by lightning?

[A]

It happens all the time.

[B]

But what is it like as a passenger?

[A]

Loud and bright. But it doesn't really. Yeah, exactly. Whoa. And it. Planes get struck by lightning a lot, actually. People don't realize that, but in this instance in our old bush plane, everything went out. Power went out, instruments went out. And so we came down to land.

[B]

But you're gliding.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And the plane restarted, but the instruments were all out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So we couldn't find the Runway or whatever else. So my mom went down. My mom was the pilot. I was. I was sitting in the passenger seat. Yeah, exactly. And we went down to land.

[B]

But she's just finding it with her eyes.

[A]

Right. Basically in a storm. Yeah, exactly. What went down? Landing.

[B]

This is Sully.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

Your mom is Sully.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

She found it. I've been in a plane where you can see the windows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, I. You see nothing.

[A]

You don't understand what you're looking at from that.

[B]

She was probably like standing up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And out. That's an uncomfortable feeling when your pilot.

[A]

Is like, yeah, where are we going? Exactly. Yeah, she did it. She more or less did it. But then the plane crashed when we hit the ground because. Hit a termite mount. Plane spun around. Things got ripped off. Yeah. But we're okay. A couple. Couple bruises, broken ribs, stuff like that.

[B]

So after her most amazing moment, she hits a termite mound.

[A]

Well, yeah, because there was no Runway to see. So we just went down to where we thought the Runway was. I was 14, so I hope I'm retelling this exactly right.

[B]

Holy smokes.

[A]

But she. Yeah, she hit a termite mound, you know, in Africa. You have these big like 6 foot tall termite mounds and you hit one of those going 100 miles an hour landing. It's. It's creates some damage.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's clear out these termite mounds even near the Runway.

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

That's my policy. Get them all out of here. That is crazy. And it was your mom okay?

[A]

Yeah, everybody was okay. I mean, a little rattled up. Plane was not okay, but we were okay. It was just my mom and I in the plane at that point in time.

[B]

Just you guys?

[A]

Just us, yeah.

[B]

Oh my God. She must have been terrified.

[A]

She was, yeah.

[B]

Oh, God. As a parent, I can't. Did she resume flying?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Got a new plane or that one fully fixed up. I don't really remember. And back to work. You know, it's part of her job. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. This is the bad part of the 80s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody knew. You've been traumatized. We're not gonna process this.

[A]

No such thing. Yeah.

[B]

Your mom just got a tic and started smoking.

[A]

That's it. Back and on to the next thing. Yeah, but. Yeah. Short answer is I've had a few near death encounters. That one was not my fault. A lot of them are close to wildlife, like bad animal interaction.

[B]

Fish.

[A]

One just got stung by a man O War jellyfish. It wasn't like I didn't go into coma or anything, but it was a lot of toxin. A lot of pain. Yeah.

[B]

Hurt muchos.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it hurt a lot.

[B]

Shock or a burn?

[A]

No, it's more like, like feels kind of like an acid burn. Like it just doesn't go away, you know, it lingers for a long time.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what were you trying to do?

[A]

Swimming. Mozambique. Yeah.

[B]

Just hanging out.

[A]

Just hanging out.

[B]

Not even for work?

[A]

No. I was also pretty young when this happened. Yeah.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

But I mean, literally, like in February, I almost got killed by a hippo while we were working down in Colombia.

[B]

The secret killers.

[A]

Man, hippos are gnarly hippos.

[B]

I mean, the Hungry Hungry Hippos franchise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just because they're kind of cute. But those are sharks.

[A]

Fantasia, Remember Fantasia the movie?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

They had like the happy dancing tutu hippos. And so people thinks they're like these.

[B]

Cute cuddly things, murder people every year.

[A]

Right. The most dangerous large land animal in the world.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

The most dangerous large land animal. Because mosquitoes are more dangerous. You know, things like that. But the hippo kills more people.

[B]

A mosquito is more dangerous because of like malaria.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But a hippo will eat you.

[A]

It won't eat you, but it will bite you in half, trample you, kill you. I mean, so one of the shows.

[B]

That I have coming up, fucking Altoid teeth.

[A]

Yeah. Those Altoid teeth are like this big, around in this long. Don't be fooled. I thought they were Altoid. No. They'll smash you up.

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, no. And why will they kill you? For being in their spot.

[A]

So people often ask me that. I don't think hippos are aggressive. They're just very, very nervous creatures. And hippos don't have a fight or flight response. They have a fight response.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So if you corner a hippo, if you trap a hippo, if you get a hippo in a situation where it can't sink under the water and be. Be nervous and scared, it just attacks.

[B]

I've always related to a hippo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't feel.

[A]

I don't sinking under.

[B]

I just like how they just kind of want to sink and relax. It seems like pretty much left alone.

[A]

Pretty much. They just want to be left alone.

[B]

But they seem like deeply traumatized creatures.

[A]

They do.

[B]

They really do it. It'll just overreact 100% every time.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So we were working in. In February of this year and last year too, but we're working with Cornare, which is the government institution in Colombia in charge of mitigating the hippo issue. Do you know about that? Like, Pablo Escobar brought hippos to Colombia.

[B]

Oh, yeah. What was his. He used to feed his enemies and stuff.

[A]

They say that. I don't think that's true. We dig into that in the show, but.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Hacienda napolis was his 5,000 acre private zoo estate that Pablo Escobar had. And he brought in all these animals, including four hippos. He was gunned down. They moved all the animals out to various zoos except for the hippos because they're too dangerous, too difficult. Everything we just talked about. So they're just like, off you go. They let them out. Those four hippos are now over 200 and they're killing people. They're 200 hippos.

[B]

200 hippos.

[A]

They bred to be over 200 hippos. Yeah.

[B]

Horny, horny hippos.

[A]

Horny, horny hippos. That's right. Not hungry, hungry hippos. Hi. God, I wish I'd had that line when we were filming that show. That's a good line. Horny. Horny hippos.

[B]

It's my pleasure.

[A]

That's really funny.

[B]

Drop it in adr.

[A]

I wish. That's a good line. I'm stealing that one, Pete. But, yeah. So they're. They're a huge menace down there. And hippos aren't supposed to be in Colombia. They're from Africa.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

And so, yeah, we've been working on catching them, castrating them, chemically castrating them, relocating them, all kinds of stuff. Yeah.

[B]

And you're doing that without anesthesia, I'm guessing.

[A]

No, no, we put them under. Yeah, you put them under. It's very dangerous, though. You got catch a hippo, put it to sleep, open it up, cut its nuts off, take its ovaries out, sew it back up, wake it up, and let it go. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

It's hard to catch a predator.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

It's nuts.

[B]

It is literally not.

[A]

Yeah, not anymore.

[B]

It was nuts.

[A]

It was nuts. Yeah.

[B]

And that's to let this generation live out, but then be done with it.

[A]

That's what we're trying to do. Yeah. Because they've become a bit of a cultural icon because of their past with Pablo Escobar, because they've created a tourism industry around them. Oh, people going to see them.

[B]

They want some.

[A]

They want some.

[B]

But the government's like, leave us enough.

[A]

For people to take pictures. Exactly. And it's created a whole financial industry, like, around tourism. And if you go to Hacienda now, it's like a theme park. It's like going to Six Flags. It's all hippo themed. It's like dancing hippos everywhere. So they don't want them gone, but they're legitimately out of control.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who knew?

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

Can you eat hippo?

[A]

You can eat hippo. I have had it. I'm sorry to say. You could kill these hippos, but that's not what people want.

[B]

Right, Right. I'm not in favor of that, but I'm like, there's overrun with this delicious animal.

[A]

It may. I don't know that they're delicious, but it may get to the point where they have to shoot a bunch of them. They're not there now, but it may get to that point.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I have no idea. I'm in the dark on hippo news.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a hippo attacked you.

[A]

We. So because they're in this cr. There's, like, one rule in the bush in Africa. Again. I grew up on safari that there's a few rules, but there's one big outstanding rule, which is never walk in thick bush with a hippo. Because if they hear you, if they smell you, if they see you, boom, they go for you. Guess what? In Africa, you have these big open fleas, you know, like big grasslands and savannas. You don't have that in the Colombian Amazon. You have jungle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we were tracking hippos on this island in the middle of the Rio Magdalena basin. And it's like you can't see from meteor wall right there because of how thick it is. And sure enough, we pop out into this one area, and there's a hippo wallowing in a pool right there. And it can't submerge because the pool's on, like, three feet deep. So it just comes charging up at us. And we scattered. And the one good thing about being in thick bush is when you scatter, they don't know where to go because you just scatter in every direction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it charged towards me and the guy that I was working with, of course, always. And the guy in the front, me and Alejandro, the guy I was working with. And then it turned off and ran into the bush. But it was. It was like, I'm getting the heart palpitations now just thinking about it. It just. It sucks. Hippos suck. Every time I work with hippos, something bad happens. Like, hippos are so scary.

[B]

You're like Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park. You're the one going like, we should be going after these hippos.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're the guy that's saying, we shouldn't be doing this. Insane.

[A]

But we do it anyway. Yeah. And then I also lead the mission, so I don't know if I'm quite. Yeah, I'm unhinged. Yeah.

[B]

This episode is brought to us by our friends at dad Grass and the official beverage of my summer, dad Grass leisure drink, which, if you're 21 and over, ship legally to all 50 states. You gotta check it out. Dad Grass was founded by two bros. Two bros. Two guys who feel like I feel weed is too damn strong. It hits you too hard. It sends you into outer space like a chimpanzee exploring things you don't understand. You can't follow the plot of a movie. You eat an entire pizza just trying to regulate and come back to earth. And you can't even follow the plot of Parent Trap. So what they did was they made Leisure drink, which is delicious. It's a yuzu flavored, which I don't know why we don't have more yuzu flavored drinks. It's sweet, it's bubbly, it's goodness that finally offers a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body and mind with friends and keeping you on the earthly plane but still feeling great. I've been putting them out at parties, I've been enjoying them on family movie nights because it's just, it's just that that takes the edge off. It's 3 milligrams of THC, 6 milligrams of CBD and 2,200 milligrams of Lion's Mane which I find balances out the whole experience. So it's a mild dose but it's also sessionable. You can stack them. If you want to have a bigger buzz, you stack them. It hits really fast because it's a liquid which means like you'll know how you're going to feel in about 10 to 20 minutes. Get leisure drinks and all of Dadgrass amazing products including their joints and their gummies by going to dadgrass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20% off. We're also brought to us by our friends at Apollo. My Apollo is charging. Usually I hold it up at this point Apollo. I'm never without it, I'm always wearing it. Why An Apollo neuro is a piece of wearable technology that sends almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system. You can wear it on the inside of your wrist, you can wear it on your ankle. I wear mine on the inside of my wrist. And what it does, it's like finding the fuse box to your nervous system. It can energize you, it can help you focus, it can most importantly help you relax. The setting I have it on most often is either calm or unwind and when I'm traveling I have it running on unwind the entire day. When I'm going to bed I put it on a setting called good night and when I'm in bed going to sleep I put it on setting called called sleep. It gently talks to your body in the language that your body speaks and can understand. Reducing stress, improving sleep, boosting focus, helping with recovery. It's drug free obviously it's a topical thing, it's a. It's on your body non invasive and it's science backed. It's developed by a neuroscientist and supported by clinical research. Try the Apollo. With rising demand now is the perfect time to buy. Go to ApolloNeuro.com weird and if you apply the code weird, you'll get 60 bucks off and a free sleep band. That's Apollo Neuro A P O L L O N E U-R-O.com weird. Use promo code weird for 60 bucks off and a free sleep band. Back to the episode. So you, for a very real moment, thought you were definitely dead by hippo.

[A]

I mean, you don't think that way. You just react.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then after you go, shit, that was close. Like, you know, I don't think in that specific situation, there was never, like. I had one other hippo charge many years ago in Mana Pool, Zimbabwe, where I felt its breath. It was that close to me. This wasn't like that, you know, it was still probably 25ft away from me, but it was one of those situations where I was running without looking back, you know, it was just like.

[B]

Just absolutely.

[A]

Just go. Like, don't think. Go. And nothing bad happened. But I just. You just. Adrenaline takes over. You do what you think is right and you hope for the best. And in that situation, nothing happened.

[B]

But it's crazy that that's one of the ways that we are so wildly an animal. It's like adrenaline and our fight flight program.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And when they kick in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like slow motion, like when time slows down, or, you know, you just have these instincts.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So happy to be an animal when we're an animal. When you need to be an animal, you're so happy you're an animal.

[A]

That's it. Yeah. You know, no rationale or thought or anything is going to save you in that situation.

[B]

And it floods you with a, I guess, hormone adrenaline. Is it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That you have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or that it can make. It's insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Body chemistry is insane. You could probably illuminate me on this. But it's like, give him this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Boom.

[B]

From where?

[A]

It's like. It's like.

[B]

It's in you.

[A]

It's Captain America's super serum. It's like, boop. You know, like.

[B]

And you had it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just not giving it to you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because it, like, has only a limited amount, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the body's intelligences go. We have this, like, Batman gives himself that adrenaline shot in the New Batman.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We have that. But it's smart enough to know, well, don't just give it to him when he's watching a movie. Like, this is fake. This is fake hippo real. And it gives it to you. And now you could climb a tree.

[A]

That's Right. Kick into overdrive. I mean, there's been instances of women, like lifting cars off of their children and stuff. And you're like, where did your super strength come from? And. And she's like, I don't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, my car, my kid was under the hood of the car or whatever.

[B]

And the less romantic answer is your brain was like, this is a five alarm fire.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Everything we got.

[A]

That's right. Put all systems go.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you feel this crazy rush after it. You get like. I get. And I'm not. I don't think I'm an adrenaline junkie. But you get this crazy endorphin high afterwards. Really?

[B]

That was so nuts. That hip almost fucking killed me, you know?

[A]

And you're like. And you're like, your hands are like this. And you're like, what just happened? Like, why do I feel good now?

[B]

You had to trick. That's why the adrenaline junkies are tricking the brain to give it the thing.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Designed for trouble.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But we're like, oh, we'll find a way around that.

[A]

That's why you skydive or bungee jump or whatever, because it kicks. That adrenaline kicks in and then you get that rush afterwards.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And I do get that with wildlife quite often. I'm fortunate in that regard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe I am an adrenaline junkie. I just hide it by saying I'm doing it for the greater good of wildlife. You're in.

[B]

You're an adrenaline recreation connoisseur. Yeah, you're connoisseur.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Indulge from time to time.

[A]

Yeah. I have a nice, nice glass of adrenaline.

[B]

And what was the shark one?

[A]

I've been bitten by lemon sharks twice, so once on my arm right there.

[B]

What is a lemon shark?

[A]

That scar right there. Yeah. A lemon shark is like a yellowish colored shark. They get that name from their yellowish complexion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Very common in the Caribbean.

[B]

But it's not like a sand shark. Are these little sharks?

[A]

No, no. They get like 11ft long. They get pretty big shark. Yeah. It can do some real damage. Look.

[B]

You bit by any shark. Good story. I'm just wondering how scary and big the shark is. Big.

[A]

I guess neither one was like, you know, I was swimming at night and it dragged me under anything like that both times. And this was the point of why I even brought this up is anytime something like this happens with wildlife, I'm the one to blame, not the animals. I put myself into this weird situation. Feeding sharks, darting hippos, whatever it happens to be. And the animals are reacting defensively. They're not like, oh, I'm going to get that guy you were after.

[B]

It's nuts.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. But, yeah. So I was feeding lemon sharks, and one got me there, and then another time, one bit me on the foot. So I've had these stupid things that I've done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I've put myself in those situations.

[B]

More like a sting or a grab.

[A]

With the shark, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, this one was a slice. That was a single tooth where I pulled my arm back as it went for me. And so it just sliced me right there and that.

[B]

Well, I think most people, like, doesn't that lead to a frenzy? There's all your blood in the water.

[A]

No, no, there's a little bit of blood. I closed it up. I duct taped it closed and got right back to work. So it didn't.

[B]

You're like your mom. I crashed the plane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Next day, I'm up in the air.

[A]

Yeah, you got to keep going. Yeah.

[B]

Just duct taped it underwater.

[A]

No, we were. I was on the back of a boat working, so I came in from the boat. We were feeding the sharks is what you do to get a lot of sharks around and study them. And again, my fault. I wasn't paying enough attention. Complacency set in. This happened, and we had plenty more to do, so I duct taped my arm and went back into it. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. When I'm swimming in the ocean, do I have to worry about sharks?

[A]

Where are you swimming?

[B]

Well, I just was swimming. Well, up. Up in Ventura?

[A]

No, not really.

[B]

Not really.

[A]

I mean, we have, like. I live in Santa Barbara. Right. Just north of Ventura. We have tons of sharks at Padaro Lane, which is like this one little beach where there's a white shark nursery for juvenile sharks. That. That same exact beach is where my son, this next summer. Not this summer because he was too little, will go to lifeguard camp. They're literally swimming in the water with juvenile white sharks all around. Oh, wow. But it's just sharks. And I know you've heard this, doing Shark Week press and stuff. They're not out to get you. They don't choose to attack you. When they bite you, it's because they've made a bad choice. You've probably made a bad choice in where you're swimming and what you're doing. And it's a sort of confluence of situations that leads to a negative encounter.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Okay. All right. Good to know so for the most part, you just live your life. Don't worry about it.

[B]

I like that. I will. And forgive me if this is like a topic you're tired of talking about, but is there some dragon stuff we're gonna talk about?

[A]

Some dragon stuff?

[B]

Is our dragons real?

[A]

Oh, are you thinking about that Joe Rogan clip thing?

[B]

I didn't see any clip.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I remember when James put us in touch, he was like, he's done a lot of interesting work with dragons.

[A]

No, I have not. No dragons? No, I think so.

[B]

There was a clip.

[A]

There's a clip that went viral. And then was it Joy Behard or one of the women on the View? I don't remember who. It was like, made fun of Joe Rogan over the clip. So it went even more viral because it was taken out of context. And the context is this. I haven't done a lot of dragon work. I really don't even know what I'm talking about. But the context is this. Joe and I were talking about, you know, Bigfoots and all these, these cryptids and mythological things. And he's like, which, which of them.

[B]

Do you think Cryptids? What's a cryptid?

[A]

Cryptid is a Bigfoot or an alien or a Sasquatch or a yeti Chupacabra. It's something that hasn't been proven to exist. Yeah, that's a cryptid. And there's, there's so many of them. And my. What I said to Joe is, here's something I heard that I thought was kind of interesting. Think about dragons, right? Dragons popped up during the same general time era across the planet. The Chinese have dragons, the British had dragons fighting knights fighting dragons in Africa. There's stone paintings of these fire breathing giant reptiles on the wall, blah, blah, blah. So around the same, like 200 years, there were dragons painted and depicted throughout human culture. Every corner of the planet, basically. Now, why is that significant? Well, first of all, first of all, these cultures couldn't communicate. They didn't talk to each other, yet they all had similar renderings and drawings. Secondly, when you think about fossil records, what is the hardest thing to fossilize? It's bird bones. Why is that? Because bird bones are hollow to make for flight. Right. So these things didn't fossilize. So if there were dragons out there, there really wouldn't be very many fossils because their bones wouldn't fossilize. So I basically said that I might have explained one or two other things.

[B]

About this is why we wouldn't have evidence for.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But it's not like I'm saying there's dragons out there or there ever was. I don't know. And I highly doubt it. And I certainly don't think they were ever fire breathing. There may have been flying lizards, but they weren't fire breathing, in my opinion. And then that clip got taken out of context. And again, Joe got made fun of by someone on the View. And then he. He literally changed his, like, Instagram or Twitter or something to be. It's a Joe Rogan dragon believer. And like, he texted me, he's like, look at this. And I like, we made fun, you know, we laughed at it. So it really blew up and all.

[B]

Of a sudden really didn't know about.

[A]

No, it's fine. But I became like the dragon guy on the Internet and I'm like, I don't know anything about dragons. I don't. I just presented something that I thought was crazy.

[B]

Dude, I'm glad because I was talking to Katie. I was like, I don't know if I care about dragons. Like, even if they did exist.

[A]

I'm like, all right, I don't know anything about dragons. I just found that one sort of tidbit of information.

[B]

I do find stuff. I find when cultures are. Well, there's a lot of, like, spacemen. This is very Joe Rogan experience area. But, like, when you see it in the art of cultures that couldn't communicate.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Reptile people. Yeah, that's fun stuff.

[A]

It's interesting.

[B]

Like that ghost story kind of feel.

[A]

Of course it's. I mean, look, they've. How many Bigfoot shows have they made? Yeah, Hundreds. Thousands of episodes. How many Bigfoot have they found?

[B]

Zero.

[A]

Zero. Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's the old Mitch Hedberg bit.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Or maybe it was Kumail. It was like, you're watching. It's like 1am and you're watching the History Channel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's the Search for Bigfoot. And you're like, I don't think they're going to find them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think that would have been on the news.

[A]

Yeah. I think someone would have said something if. I don't think it'd be airing at 1am on the History Channel on a Wednesday if they had actually found Bigfoot.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is the most misunderstood animal? That was a question for you.

[A]

The most misunderstood animal.

[B]

And it doesn't have to be the most. But what is an animal that people think about incorrectly? We already covered hippos.

[A]

I think everything. Every animal, to some degree. I think we understand our dogs, really. Well, and things like that. But I'll tell you what animal has the worst best PR campaign. How about that?

[B]

Tell me.

[A]

Yeah, Pandas.

[B]

Pandas.

[A]

What do you think of when you think of a panda bear?

[B]

Japan.

[A]

Okay. They're from China, but that's good.

[B]

Oh, no, but I'm thinking of, like, cute Japan. Culture, Anime.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

A girl dressed as one.

[A]

Yep. Black and white.

[B]

I'm embarrassed.

[A]

Huggy.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

Cuddly beer.

[B]

Cuddly bear don't mate. Sorry. But that's where I would go that. We have a hard time getting them to mate. But cuddly.

[A]

Cute, right?

[B]

Magical. What did. I just. Oh, I just watched Chad did my Largo the other night and he had a line. Everyone gets a panda was in the joke.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

So it's like, like the best thing, right? We all get a pet panda.

[A]

They're vicious, they're dumb as dirt. They're the worst parents in the world. The worst. They will literally. If you go to a panda in the zoo. Pete. Pete. You go to a panda in the zoo and you go, you've got a baby. Say you're a mommy panda and this is an apple.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. If I give you this. No, no. You'll hand me your baby to take the apple. These are animals. This is why I say pandas have the best PR campaign in the world. Yes. I swear to God, Google it. You'll see all these images, this. Videos of this. Because we. Everybody on the planet thinks pandas are so great. They're cute, they're cuddly, they're fun, they are beautiful. I'll give you that. These are animals that have been trying to head towards extinction for like thousands of years.

[B]

Running towards.

[A]

Running towards.

[B]

Let us go.

[A]

Yeah. That's what they're.

[B]

Let us go. And we're showing them. Panda board.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To get them to.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Maybe we were just lucky to be here for the brief panda time.

[A]

And by the way, I'm pro panda conservation. I want to keep them here. I don't want them gone. But they are.

[B]

Are.

[A]

They have the best PR campaign in the world because they are so dumb and. Yeah.

[B]

Vicious.

[A]

Vicious.

[B]

And they'll kill people.

[A]

Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, they're not like a super. They're not like a grizzly bear aggressive or a polar bear. They're not out hunting meat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they. They are a very defensive, territorial animal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we just like.

[B]

Unless I'm an apple.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think people think, like, I'm going to go See a panda. I'm going to walk up to it and hug it and kiss it on the nose.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about if you could travel in time to see an extinct species? Is there one that you would have loved to see?

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Obviously. Dinosaurs.

[A]

No, I.

[B]

And yes, you go to a more interesting place.

[A]

Well, like T. Rex. So, I mean, yes, I would love that. To go back into the Cretaceous and see dinosaurs wouldn't just be T Rex.

[B]

Be everything but giant bugs would freak me out.

[A]

That'll be so cool.

[B]

Huge, huge bugs.

[A]

Oh, was it Glyphodons, the giant armadillo creatures? Oh my God. There's incredible animals. Mosasaurs. But my, my thing doesn't seem chill. No, my thing. And it's funny because people will be like, why would you want to do this? But do you. Have you ever heard of a thylacine?

[B]

Thylacine. Is that a thyroid issue?

[A]

It sounds like one. It's called the Tasmanian tiger is a marsupial wolf, basically lived in Tasmania.

[B]

Marsupial meaning pouch, like animal. Okay. It has a pouch.

[A]

So all kangaroos, koalas, wombats. Those are all marsupials.

[B]

Any wombats had pouches?

[A]

Keep going. There you go.

[B]

So he has a pouch but he's a tiger.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And. And it evolved from marsupials. It didn't come from our regular land mammals. Oh, wow. So this is an animal I've been obsessed with for a long time. It's one of the things that I'm known about, known for is like being obsessed with this creature because we drove it towards extinction in Tasmania not that long ago by hunting for them, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in the Hobart Zoo there was an animal named Benjamin, I want to say 70 years ago now I'm getting the numbers mixed up in my head, but that. We had them. We even had them in captivity. We had them on the island of Tasmania. People. There was a bounty placed on their head because they'd kill sheep. They actually didn't, but they pretended they did. That's a story for another time. If I could just go back a hundred years.

[B]

Wait, they were framed?

[A]

Yeah, they were framed. Yeah.

[B]

Because they wanted an excuse to kill them, pretty much.

[A]

So they were a predator and they probably would take a calf or something like that, you know, like a newly born sheep or something like that, that. But the Tasmanian government put out a whole campaign on, you know, five shillings for a Tasmanian pelt or whatever to eradicate them, to promote farming. This goes back to the beginning of the pod when you're talking about industrialization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this was one of the things. But this was an animal that was very delicate. It wasn't used to human pressures and thus got hunted out very, very quickly. I'm very fascinated by this animal. I think that there's a tiny, tiny, tiny remote chance that they still exist. Probably not in Tasmania or mainland Australia, but up in New Guinea, Papua New Guinea. That area that's neither here nor there. The answer to your question, if I could go back 100 years and see a living thylacine, that would be the animal I'd pick.

[B]

What. What do you think would be cool about watching it? It's. Do you. Are you curious about its behavior? Like, are you uncertain about how it behaved or is it just to see its beauty?

[A]

All. Both. So everybody is somewhat uncertain about its behavior. Behavior. Because everything we have is completely anecdotal and based on what we think they did, I think their behave. I think they would have behaved similarly to like a jackal or a coyote. But they had this incredible. Like, they had the gait of a kangaroo, meaning they walked like a kangaroo. They had this big stiff tail. They had the striped bum, you know, this crazy stripy pattern. They could open their jaws wide like a snake with these unbelievable jaws. They had pouch, like little tiny pouched young. I mean, it was just. It's like a hodgepodge of creatures.

[B]

Somebody hit shuffle on nature and that's.

[A]

Why I'd want to see one.

[B]

Yeah, good choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mine's a koala beach bear.

[A]

Oh, really? You could still see those.

[B]

Yeah, they're all riddled with. What is it? Herpes.

[A]

Herpes? Yeah.

[B]

They have the worst pr.

[A]

And they stink.

[B]

Yeah, they stink.

[A]

They smell so bad and they claw.

[B]

You up and they have herpes.

[A]

Yep, this is all true. They're really cute, though. They really are cute when you see one, even if they're smelly and have herpes.

[B]

Tell me about. Have there been nights that were weird when you're doing what you're doing? I have to imagine it's not super relaxing to make camp and sleep in some of these situations. Have you had like a weird night?

[A]

Hundreds, Hundreds and hundreds of weird night nights where bees get into your tent and camp floods and the rain won't let up and all your equipment goes down or rebels come into camp or. I mean, the list goes on and on.

[B]

Rebels come into your camp?

[A]

Yeah, it's happened multiple times.

[B]

You've just been camping. See this. See, this is how I relate to this. In red Dead Redemption 2. Sometimes you'll make a fire to save and then a cut scene where these, like, dangerous guys come in.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty much how it's.

[B]

I was expecting you to be laughing because that's such a stupid way to relate.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

But you're not expecting it. And it's a great gameplay mechanic. This happens to you in real life?

[A]

It's happened several times.

[B]

What does it look like?

[A]

You wake up, you're sitting around the fire, you're hanging out, and guys with machine guns walk out of the bushes. Or, you know, guys with machetes are like, what are you doing here? Or a trap. You know, like, in Papua New guinea, we came out of a cave and warriors with spears were like, why are you in our burial cave? And we're like, oh, I don't know. So these things happen.

[B]

They don't say that in English.

[A]

Depends. Yeah, it depends. I mean, in Papua New guinea, they had a lot of missionaries, so they. There's. There's guys covered in body paint with tribal paint and a spear named John Dudley, you know, because. Wow, the missionaries went through there. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So you just never know. Yeah.

[B]

And what is the flavor? Because obviously, similar age. I'm Indiana Jones. I'm like, they're going to kill you. They're going to chase you in a delightful romp, and you're going to get to your seaplane and escape. What is the tone in which they're saying, what are you doing in our burial cage?

[A]

So we've had one of those, but for the most part, a run the Indiana Jones Runaway and Fly Away. What's that?

[B]

What happened?

[A]

I don't want to say what country, because I still work with their.

[B]

Ireland.

[A]

Yep, Ireland.

[B]

And it's bad what you're doing in our fields. Pitchforks.

[A]

And it's bad press for them. And I still work with their government on conservation.

[B]

Okay, but country, I was working in a. South of the equator.

[A]

Yes, south of the equator. I've actually had two sort of similar instances to this, but the one, the one in Africa that took place was we were there filming something with crocodiles, and they thought that we were there exposing an illegal logging operation that was paid for by Chinese mafia. And the Chinese mafia had the government in their pocket, so they paid the military to come and seize our cameras and potentially do away with us. We found this out through a back and forth, an overnight thing. It was a whole shuffle. So anyway, we ended up having to run to our bush plane, not our seaplane.

[B]

So, wait, tell me how they presented themselves.

[A]

Well, first they just came out of the bush, surrounded us, day or night. It was like 4 o' clock in the afternoon. Yeah. And we were done. We were hanging out. We were actually having a beer. We're just celebrating the capture of this animal and relocation and.

[B]

Do you hear a twig snap?

[A]

No. We were at like a very lovely camp and these guys just walked in with military uniforms and guns and they're like, what are you doing here? We, you know, we need to see your cameras, blah, blah.

[B]

And what is their tone still? Or is there a guy going through your stuff? Whoops, I broke your lens. Like that. Are they intimidating?

[A]

Mildly aggressive, but also more questioning. Not like, we're here to kill you because then they just shoot us.

[B]

Right?

[A]

This is more just like, hey, where are your cameras? And I'm not asking twice. And it's like, oh, shit. So I grew up in Africa, like I mentioned. So I was like, hey, sit down, have a cold Coke. That's on me. Would your guy over there like a beer? Let me get you the cameras. You know, and so you have to. Going back to human connection. You have to connect with people and be like, look, shared interest, the problem here, you know, don't just get all angry and upset and uptight. It's not. It's hard to explain because in America, if the special forces or the military, the police or whatever are assigned to do something, they come in with, like, aggression and authority and, like, do this now, you know, and that's what we see. Yeah. And that's what we see in the movies. And I think that's how, you know, for the most part, even when you get pulled over on the highway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nine times out of ten, the cop comes in with a shitty attitude, right? He doesn't come in like, hey, man, like, you're speeding, you know, Come on. You know, he's a license and registration now. Yeah. And you're like, okay, don't be a dick. You know, like, yeah. So these guys came in not being dicks. They came in like, we're not gonna ask twice. Get us this. And I'm like, listen, no problem. Like, listen, nobody wants problems here. Sit down. Let me get you a nice cold coke and a beer and some snacks. And you've just walked through the bush all day to get here, you know, just relax. And I look at my guy, we've worked together a long time, my guys now.

[B]

So he knows your high footage face.

[A]

So I go, you know, go get the cameras. So he runs upstairs and gets two GoPros and a Handycam. Meanwhile, red cameras are going under the pillows and stuff, you know, and comes back, hands over the footage. They take off to review it. The story gets really long and it's complex, but basically they show back up. Their bosses go, no, that worked.

[B]

Yeah, that's how good Coca Cola is.

[A]

Yeah, it works.

[B]

Ooh, that was a secret.

[A]

But then they take off and their bosses go, no, they're lying, they're hiding stuff. They really are here to expose this illegal activity. And then I'm trying to be vague and not. Not get in trouble because I actually once shared this story and then I pulled it down off the Internet because the government contacted me. It was like, you can never work here again if you're saying this right. So I apologize. And it sounds made up to the.

[B]

People of Alberta, Canada.

[A]

That's right, yes. The Winnipegians listening. But no, I apologize for being so vague, but I feel like I have to be an interesting country.

[B]

Absolutely. But there was a chase.

[A]

Yeah. So, long story made short, they went back with those cameras that we turned over, and their bosses, who are higher up in the food chain, said, this is bullshit. They've given you fake footage and fake cameras and all that, which we had, but. So they thought we were hiding this illegal logging operation, which we weren't. We didn't even know about it until finding out through what was going on. So they sent the same guys back and they said, this time, make the problem go away is what we heard. We sent our cook with them. It's a whole complex thing. But our cook, Rick, called us and said, hey, thank God I had my Starlink. Thank God I had technology at this point in time. Our cook called us and said, hey, they're coming to get you. You know, And I don't know if that means they're going to take you in or you're going to disappear. We're out in the bush.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So we ended up like, it's two in the morning. I get knocks on the doors. Like, we got to go, we got to go. So we're like throwing cameras in bags. Like, no. You know, usually we break down all our gear and put in nice pelican cases. You've been on set, so you know what it's like. We're just like, as quick as you can. It's like, grab that bag. No, leave it. We don't need it. Blah, blah. And a car to a boat, to a car, to a plane. And as we're getting on the last plane, literally throwing Stuff in and panic because our cook's with them coming back and he's like updating us as to what's going on. They're like, they're getting closer. They're getting closer. And we pull off the Runway, like, yes. As the cars are pulling on with guys with machine guns, like screaming and shaking their guns kind of thing. So, yeah, we've had a couple of crazy instances like that.

[B]

Yeah, I knew you were the kind of guest that. I'm like, if I don't ask the right thing, I'm gonna kick myself. I'm so glad we got this.

[A]

I just have so many stories.

[B]

I know, I know. That's why I was trying to be like, what's crazy?

[A]

Yeah, that was crazy.

[B]

That was crazy. But amazing.

[A]

To your main point, I'm like the opposite. I sleep better after 12 hours on my feet, trekking through up a mountain, setting up a tent, sleeping on a, on a, on a thin little mat than I ever do at my home in my beautiful king bed with a sleep eight temperature controlled mattress. Blah, blah, blah. Like I, I.

[B]

Would you say Casper Mattress, please?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I'm just.

[A]

Sorry, I don't know if they're your sponsor. That's the one I got recently. My wife loves it, so they're not a sponsor of me either. I just like that thing. And I never knew there were temperature controlled mattresses until recently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But my point is simply like, I do better. I sleep more peacefully out in the bush than I do at home.

[B]

Well, that's one of the things, you know, this has kind of been. I've been so delighted that so much of our conversation has been about what we're missing. And like, it seems like human beings in these settings are far more human. And like, we're built to be doing those things that we're doing now.

[A]

And you know where you really see it, Pete, is you go to some village in Zimbabwe, which is where I grew up, or Botswana or whatever, Myanmar, Thailand, it doesn't matter where, the Amazon. And you see these kids that have nothing, and I mean nothing, like one or two pairs of shorts, no cell phones, no tv, no Internet, no real roof over their head, A thatch roof over their head. And they are nothing but smiles. And you walk in and they grab your hand, they take you to swim, and they feed you a banana off the tree and they, they show you the fruit and they show you the bugs and they're smiling and they're happy and. And half of them are sick as shit too, by the way. Like they don't have modern medicine. They don't have what we have. And you get this sense of community and human engagement and. And just happiness. And this sounds so silly and grandiose, but you get the sense living in this tiny little village in the middle of nowhere with no modern amenities and everyone's happy, and maybe it's ignorance is bliss situation. I don't know. But everyone's happy. Then you come back here, you land at lax, we have everything, and the woman behind the counter at TSA is an absolute bitch to you, and then the Uber driver is a prick, and you get home and the ungrate. And I'm not talking about my kids, but the kids are mean and, like, you know, and they've got everything. And you're like, what is wrong? Yeah. Why is the system so broken that everyone that has everything is unhappy and miserable and. And addicted to technology and addicted to dopamine hits from social media, and these kids over here that literally. And again, maybe it's ignorance is bliss. I don't know. And I don't want to go noble, savage, or anything else. I'm just depicting my experiences. These people that have nothing have happiness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so interesting.

[B]

It's something. It took me. It's still taking me all this time to figure out the secret to happiness is not meeting all your needs. Because again, we're back to life, like, what next? This is a Ram Dass thing. We're pretty much out of time here, unfortunately. But, like, he's like, you know, you eat ice cream, then you want water, right? Then you need the bathroom, you're bored, you need tv now you need food. So the answer can't be taking care of your to do list or, like, meeting goals or meeting needs. What it seems like, what These kids you're talking about, they seem to have an attunement with their environment, with their community. So belonging, present. You know what I mean? And also a lifestyle that. That nurtures that presence and being present together.

[A]

I think so. Yeah.

[B]

It's. That's a really nice note to end on. You've given us a lot of wonderful stuff. Thank you very much, Forrest.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[B]

What a banger.

[A]

Yeah. Great to sit and chat with you. Yeah.

[B]

I loved it. Yeah. Thank you for making sure it happened because I fell off there for a minute and you guys followed up, and I'm so glad you did.

[A]

Well, I'm glad to be here.

[B]

Yeah. Anything to plug? We'll plug up top, but you can say keep it crispy. Is how we end the show. It's just you sign off by saying, keep it.

[A]

Oh, got it. Yeah. Check out any of the stuff I do online. The YouTube channel. That's new. We just started doing YouTube. And keep it crispy.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, thank you so much.