Gary Gulman #3

Summary

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You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: Gary Gulman #3

Date: September 20, 2023
Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Gary Gulman

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Overview

In this deeply personal, hilarious, and reflective third appearance, Gary Gulman returns to "You Made It Weird" for an episode devoted to the secret weirdness of life, family wounds, creativity, comedy culture, and the subtleties of New England upbringing. Pete Holmes and Gary, both renowned for their honesty and warmth, share stories about their evolving relationships with their parents, discuss Gulman's acclaimed memoir "Misfit," and peel back the layers of what it means to be original––and to hope for unconditional acceptance. The episode is filled with signature improvisational riffs, philosophical tangents, and emotionally resonant moments on vulnerability and the artistic life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Comedy Beginnings & The Boston Scene

[07:08–18:52]

• Pete recounts seeing Gary perform as a young aspiring comic in Boston. Seeing Gary’s unique, non-aggressive style made Pete realize there was room in comedy for originality, not just brash personas.
  • Pete: “When I saw you, I was like, oh—oh. Like, you can come up with that. You don’t have to be that hot.” [08:15]
• They reflect on how the Boston scene was dominated by aggressive, blue-collar-style comics, but there was also an influence to "first be original" from legends like Barry Crimmins, Bobcat Goldthwait, and Steven Wright.
• Discussion on how being original often set them back with audiences conditioned to expect loud, abrasive comedy, but ultimately enabled longevity and distinction.
  • Gary: “You don’t have to sound like any of these guys... all I had to do was, well, I don’t have anything about being arrested for drunk driving. I don’t have anything about hating my wife.” [09:38]
• Analogy of comic clones: “photocopy of a photocopy of the originals” (Chris Gethard).

The Challenge of Earnestness & Family Dynamics

[11:10–22:37]

• Comics often misread as sarcastic by cynical New York audiences; struggle to express genuine affection or enthusiasm on stage.
  • Gary: “A lot of my takes are... Well, I love this thing...[but] they laugh because they think I’m being sarcastic.” [11:29]
• Hilariously recall their parents’ motto ("What are you, gay?") as the unspoken ethos of their high school/class – a joke about the performative and limiting masculinity of the era.
• Both discuss how growing up in unpredictable, sometimes cold or chaotic family environments prepared them for the toughest club crowds.
  • Pete: “Felt a little like, you know, I'm at home with this... I can win these very irregular, unpredictable people over.” [20:41]

The Drive for Parental Approval & Childhood Lessons

[22:37–35:14]

• Both comics reveal deep-seated childhood wounds and ways these shaped their hunger for attention and need for affirmation, especially from parents.
  • Gary (on family hierarchy): “The pecking order in my home was anything on television, anyone calling on the phone to my mother, then maybe me.” [21:48]
  • Stories about Gulman’s father making him repeat a grade for potential sports advantage, and the subtle traumas of unmet parental expectations.
  • Riff on Malcolm Gladwell: admiration for his writing but outrage at Gladwell’s dismissal of stand-up as easy—“He has no respect for stand up comedy.” [23:41]
  • Pete uses Gary’s story as a segue into the need for creative witnesses—people to see and validate your journey (“looking for a reporter at Waterloo Station,” a nod to the Bourne series).

Navigating Artistic Families & Writing Memoirs

[35:14–50:36]

• Gary discusses writing "Misfit," his mother’s reaction, and the uniquely Jewish maternal skepticism and botism.
  • Gary: “Her immediate response to me handing the book was, ‘Who’s the publisher?’” [38:24]
  • The difference between reactions from his wife’s family (“We are blessed”) vs. his mother’s nitpicking and undermining.
  • Pete shares his own journey of making peace with his mother, recognizing how both were “golden boys of single mothers.” [34:30]

Recognizing Family Limitations and Setting Boundaries

[50:36–60:36]

• Sade (Gary’s wife) offers critical wisdom—don’t expect deep psychological conversations from someone with a simple, literal perspective; adjust your expectations accordingly.
  • Gary, about his mother: “She knows good, bad, like, dislike. Pretty, ugly... You are bringing in 30 years of therapy... all she knows is that she didn’t like your hair.” [53:36]
• Both discuss strategies for seeking validation, disappointment with “fact-checking” families, and the persistent hope for emotional acknowledgment that rarely comes as desired.

The Pain and Acceptance of Parental Shortcomings

[55:16–104:24]

• Pete discusses the Byron Katie concept: “For me to be safe, I need my father or my mother to understand and see me in a way that I understand being understood and seen. Is that true? It's absolutely not true.” [104:10]
• Sade/Val’s view: Some parents’ neutral or evasive comments are their version of “I love you” (“Was that programmed?” or “I would never want to hurt you”).
• They debate whether their parents “did their best,” or simply defaulted to inertia and never pursued growth, contrasting that with the host/guest’s own self-development efforts.
  • Gary: “If you're a doctor, you have to keep up with [new] information... yet as a parent, not doing any of the things to become a better parent. And everybody would say they did their best.” [98:02]
• Acceptance comes from recognizing limits—sometimes it's healthier to limit contact rather than seek impossible closeness.
  • Gary: “I don't have a lot of time for them anymore.” [101:04]

Memoir Writing, Family Fact-Checking, and Storytelling Truth

[66:10–86:17]

• Both discuss the anxiety of family members reading their books and fact-checking stories.
  • Gary: “I could have gone harder. It could have been worse. Just be grateful.” [67:21]
• Pete references the Anne Lamott quote: “If people don't like how you wrote about them, they should have been kinder.” [67:25]
• The creative tension between literal truth and emotional or storytelling truth.

Creative Inspirations & Joy-Stealing Family Members

[80:17–85:10]

• Gary recounts childhood moments when his self-esteem or joy would be undercut by family members (“joy vultures”).
  • Gary: “There were a number of things... but that one was a real, like, holy, I'm not the same as I was before he said that.” [81:52]
  • Stories about getting no recognition for big achievements; family never matches enthusiasm.
• They riff on "fourth wall them"—don’t always engage combative audience members/family; sometimes talk “to the heavens” instead.

Parenting, Mr. Rogers, and Generational Healing

[88:52–107:44]

• Pete and Gary reflect on parenting, delight, and unconditional love, using Mr. Rogers and Father Greg Boyle as inspirations.
  • Pete: “We are like children drawing bad crayon drawings and God puts them on the fridge.” [90:09]
  • Gary: “That's what they never tell you about being a parent, is that it's important... to enjoy them.” [88:52]
• Stories about forgiving parental shortcomings, wanting their kids (or themselves as kids) to feel safe, loved, and accepted. Pete shares the repeated affirmation he gives his daughter: “You’re good, you’re safe, you’re loved.” [105:59]
• Riff on religious and cultural upbringings; the “Don’t be like that” energy and differences among Jewish/Christian family cultures.

Humor and Childhood Riffs

[116:33–121:06]

• Gary shares his hardest or most joyful laughs as a kid, highlighting the comedic genius of his childhood friend, Billy Mamion (“Did your dog make it?”) [119:33], and the simple pleasures of kids' jokes and camp culture.
• Pete and Gary riff on kids' pool jokes (e.g., “Thank you for coming to our ool…” [120:12]) and dissect the deeper comic structure of such childhood humor.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pete (on Gary's originality):
  “When I saw you, I was like, oh—oh. Like, you can come up with that. You don’t have to be that hot.” [08:15]

• Gary (on distinguishing himself in comedy):
  “There was this vibe... with the Hippocratic oath, first do no harm; theirs was first be original.” [08:57]

• Gary (on family hierarchy):
  “The pecking order in my home was anything that was on television, anyone that was calling on the phone to my mother and then maybe me.” [21:48]

• Pete (re: seeking validation):
  “For me to be safe, I need my father or my mother to understand and see me in a way that I understand being understood and seen. Is that true? It's absolutely not true.” [104:10]

• Gary (on his mother reading his memoir):
  “Her immediate response to me handing the book was, 'Who’s the publisher?'” [38:24]

• Gary (on lesser compliments):
  “You sucked that lucky feeling right out of me.” [82:54]

• Pete (on unconditional love):
  “We are like children drawing bad crayon drawings and God puts them on the fridge.” [90:11]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:08] – Memory lane: Pete’s first impression of Gary on the Boston scene.
• [11:10] – The challenge of earnestness in comedy audiences.
• [22:37] – Childhood wounds and drive for affirmation.
• [23:41] – Gary's Malcolm Gladwell grievance.
• [35:14] – Navigating memoir writing and family reactions.
• [50:36] – Learning to accept limited parental understanding.
• [67:21] – How to respond to family critiques of memoirs.
• [80:17] – Joy-stealing family moments and resilience.
• [88:52] – Parenting, delight, and the legacies of love.
• [104:10] – Acceptance mantras: Letting go of the hope for full understanding.
• [119:33] – "Did your dog make it?" — Gary's childhood laughing fit.
• [120:12] – The “ool” joke and nostalgia for juvenile comic wit.

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Tone & Style

• The episode is a freewheeling, digressive dialogue—switching between sharp comedic riffing, soulful honesty, family systems, and comedy shop talk. Both men communicate with a blend of wit, self-effacing vulnerability, and philosophical curiosity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is essential listening for anyone tracing the overlap between family-of-origin wounds, artistic creativity, and the earnest hope for recognition in adulthood. It explores the generational limitations of parents, the imperative and the pain of being unique, and how, for comedians especially, deep family weirdness is as much a gift as it is a challenge. If you love comedy that’s as introspective as it is side-splitting, and if you’re interested in the “why” behind our secret weirdness and desire to be seen, this is an all-timer.

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Gary Gulman’s memoir Misfit is available now. Sign-off catchphrase: "Keep it crispy!" [121:38]

Transcript

[Gary Gulman]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, you made it weird.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, you did.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is the return of Gary Goleman, his third time on the show and by far it's my favorite appearance of his. He is one of the best stand up comedians to ever do it. He. He's also one of the best writers in the world and he's written an incredible book called Misfit which is available now. I'm currently reading it. It is heartfelt, it is insightful, and it is deeply, deeply funny. It's as funny as his standup, which is an incredible achievement. So reading it is kind of like having a personal Gary Goleman standup show in your living room. So check it out. It's incredible, honestly. Misfit by Gary Goleman. I have a couple things. I have a couple things to plug up top too. Let's see. I'm gonna be at Largo in Los Angeles this month on Saturday, October 14th. Go to largo-la.com for tickets to that. I'm also going to be in Salt Lake City after that. Bloomington, Indiana. Those will all be on peteholmes.com Hope to see people out. Thanks to everybody who came out in Raleigh. Raleigh, am I saying that correctly? Raleigh. So tour dates are [e-mail] and you guys know I only ads for products that I actually use and actually love. And I actually was just writing. Actually a lot of actuallys. Actually I was just writing and I was rocking my latest Pete's Pick run. Don't walk to this one. This app is brought to us by our friends at Brain fm. So I was sitting down to write, to work, and how am I going to cue my brain that it's time to sink in, to settle in and get in that flow state? Well, turns out music is a huge, huge part of that. And Brain FM has been how I get that into my daily creative routine for years now. And I'm so happy to be partnering, partnering with them. Every morning I sit at that computer behind me, I throw on these headphones, hit focus on Brain fm. On the app, I hit focus, I hit creative flow. Lo fi is my favorite genre and boom, I'm in the pocket and ready to work, create and focus. Without this specially designed lyric lesson flow state scientifically dialed in music, I find it so much harder to complete tasks. I procrastinate. I have a hard time meeting deadlines. But with Brain fm, I'm signaling to my brain literally that it is time to get things done. And it works. What is it? On the surface, Brain FM seems like an app that gives you the perfect background music for creative work, study, reading, meditation, relaxation and sleep. And that's true. But it's incredible music. It is to work, read, meditate to. But under the surface, it is so much more than that. Brain FM's composers work hard to create amazing sounding music that doesn't distract and uses their patented audio technology to boost your mental states. On demand audio signals get your brain dialed in. It's incredible. Brain FM's scientists and composers add patterns to their music that change the patterns in your brain, creating increased blood flow and electrical activity in your brain and increasing focus in as little as five minutes. Regular music is designed to be distracting, so you're constantly being interrupted, having to skip songs that are pulling you out of that flow. But not with Brain fm. Sc stop. Stop the skipping. Brain FM has a wide variety of sounds and genres, from natural soundscapes to lo fi electronic music. To get you in that zone almost immediately, but without having to pick the perfect playlist, it takes no thought. I never skip songs. I love them all. They help me dial in. And it's science backed. Brain FM actually has the scientific research to back up their claims through close collaboration with neuroscientists and a wide array of field experiments and testing. But even better, their music is made by not made by computers instead, multi instrumentalist composers. That way the soundscapes on Brain FM still have the warmth of real people. So give it a try. It's a huge part of my routine, has been for years. Great way to support your brain and support the show. Go to Brain FM. Weird. To get 30% off one year of Brain FM and start getting more done with less effort and unlock your best self on demand. Experience the difference that the right music can make in your life. Brain FM. Weird. Support the show. Support. Support your noodle. Also, I, for years, years, decades never washed my hair. Hate shampoo. I hate looking like a bale of hay that just got out of the dryer. Crispy, hard to control, horrible looking hair. So I just didn't wash it until Kat, my hairdresser, she was like pete, this is disgusting. You need to wash your hair. Yuck. I was with her. I know. I just didn't know a better way than. Thankfully modern mammals has come to the rescue. It's the only shampoo that's like a non shampoo that somehow cleans your hair so the comb goes right through it. Super clean, but leaves it perfect. It's not going to frizzle it. It's not going to fry it. You're not going to have to wear a hat for three days or hope no one takes your picture. You get a perfect hair day on demand. It has structure. It still has some of its natural moisture. It doesn't dry it out and it stays in place and looks incredible, giving your hair that wave, that flow that I am looking for after a wash. It looks like how my hair used to look if I wash it with regular shampoo and waited four or five days. But now I can have a perfect hair day just whenever I want on command. Now my hair regimen is the opposite of what it used to be. I used to not wash it when I wanted to have a good hair day. Now I use it. Modern mammals when I want to have a good hair day. So over 40,000 guys have switched to this instead of traditional shampoo. You got to see the reviews for this product. They're insane.

[Gary Gulman]

Insane.

[Pete Holmes]

Guys don't get this excited about anything, but literally, it's blowing people's minds, including mine. And once you use it, you are hooked for life. I'm hooked for life. I'm never going back. I travel with it. I love it. It's in every bathroom. You can't go back to regular shampoo after this. And it's a small punk rock company that I love their grassroots. These were just guys that were fed up with shampoo frying your hair and set out to actually create new products to wash your hair with. New shampoo alternatives, new specifically for guys. And they have bars if you want the no plastic, no fragrance feel or bottles. It's like a magic gray mud that I love the feeling and the smell of that gets your hair perfect every single time. Six seconds away to perfect hair. No joke. I love it. I use it. Modern mammals.com weird. Where weirdos can get a special combo deal and try both products, the bar and the bottle for 44 bucks. The bar, by the way, lasts a really, really long time. So this is a good, good, Good deal. Modern mammals.com weird support your hair. Support this show. All right, everybody, let's get into Gary Goleman. He's incredible. Get into it. It's like 1997.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

I go to the Comedy Connection. Not there anymore. Faniel hall. Run by a scary man named Joey.

[Gary Gulman]

You? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who scared. It's scary to me. I was a sweetheart. I didn't know what club got. And he was sometimes nice, but that's what made it kind of oddly familiar was sometimes he was very sweet. And sometimes it'd be like, kind of gruff.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I called too much. Sure I did.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But he was too much.

[Gary Gulman]

But he was. I was the same. I was the same way, but. But I was a little bit further along in my.

[Pete Holmes]

You were a lot further along. I had yet to do it.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was going to a con.

[Gary Gulman]

But you were calling even though you had not done it.

[Pete Holmes]

I was doing the open mic probably after I saw you, though.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Real. Like. I know you believe this. Why would I make this. I've told. This is probably. This is your third time on the show. I bet this is the third time I've told you this on the air. But I. You know, Billy Burr was on the show.

[Gary Gulman]

Uhhuh.

[Pete Holmes]

Murdered.

[Gary Gulman]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But I didn't. The punchline of the story. I'm sort of ruining. I. I wasn't like, I can do it watching Bill. Not talent wise, but just like, when I saw you, I was like, oh, oh. Like, you can come up with that.

[Gary Gulman]

You don't have to be that hot.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You don't have to be hard. Cause, dude, growing up in Boston, I thought comedy was like. And this guy's over here, he's flopping, and it's jizzing. Jay, it's jizzing. And I'm slipping in it. I'm slipping in. Then the fucking chairman of the board walks in. He's got a mustache. I know it's fake. Cause he got it down in Austin. And I'm just like, that's what comedy was. Screaming at the Thanksgiving table. And like, lenny Clack. I'm not putting Lenny Clack down. I'm just saying that is what comedy was. From what I could tell, if I wanted to make my dad laugh, I had to be like Lenny Clark. And I didn't feel like that.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I saw you.

[Gary Gulman]

That's interesting. There was also this vibe, and I think it was a remnant of the. The. What do you call it? The influence of guys like Barry Crimmins, Bobcat, Steven Wright, and the. What is called the Ding Ho Crew, which was this restaurant that. And. And. And Jimmy Tingle that. That sort of like with the Hippocratic oath, first do no harm. Theirs was. First be original. Don't sound like any of these guys. And so that was good to know. And also the fact that everybody sounded like you just described so perfectly. It was easy to be different.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

So all I had to do was. Well, I don't have Anything about being arrested for drunk driving. I don't have anything.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it.

[Gary Gulman]

About hating my wife and using a voice that makes her sound like a lunatic. So I can.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, you're helping.

[Gary Gulman]

I can stand out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Yeah. Look, I'm not putting.

[Gary Gulman]

And that was important, and it would allow you to get more work than. Than the person who was just doing an impression of somebody who was doing an impression of somebody from the previous generation. I mean, you see that in New York a lot. There are a handful of Templ.

[Pete Holmes]

Atel. The Atel.

[Gary Gulman]

The Patrice. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Patrice Gaggle. Where they.

[Gary Gulman]

Where they use a lot of the similar mannerisms and cadence and. And it's just Chris Gethard pointed out. He said they're a photocopy of a photocopy of the. Of these.

[Pete Holmes]

You ever been at the table at the Cellar, and you're like, there's only two guys here, but here's. Look, let's smell our own farts. Let's enjoy it. It was a handicap. I don't know if you can say that. I'm not trying to be cute. I'm saying it set you back initially.

[Gary Gulman]

Initially.

[Pete Holmes]

Initially. If you were fucking me, Nate Bargazzi, you. I'm not saying, you know, I can be dirty and stuff. It's not just that. It was, like, going for this sort of other way.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that was sort of strained.

[Gary Gulman]

It was difficult because the audiences were conditioned to enjoy that speed and that loudness.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And those takes. I. I still find it, if I'm performing at the Comedy Cellar, it often feels like a road room. They're not there to see me, so I'm going on there. And they're assuming that everything I say is sarcastic and cynical. And so it. It's just very. It's just very frustrating.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Gary Gulman]

A lot of my takes are. Well, I love this thing.

[Pete Holmes]

You're being earnest.

[Gary Gulman]

I'm being earnest. And they laugh because they think I'm. I'm being sarcastic.

[Pete Holmes]

You're about to say in one way or another, what, are you, gay? You know what I'm saying? I don't like saying that. I'm just saying that's what they're wearing.

[Gary Gulman]

That was my high school motto.

[Pete Holmes]

What are you, gay?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Our high school yearbook. The motto was. And it sounds much nicer in Latin, but the motto was, what are you gay?

[Pete Holmes]

That. First of all, part of me believes you. Of course you're joking. But part of me thinks that a very persuasive yearbook committee, Mr. Capeza. Come on. It's for us.

[Gary Gulman]

It's our catchphrase.

[Pete Holmes]

It's our catchphrase.

[Gary Gulman]

You wouldn't ask Arnold not to say what you talking about, Willis, don't ask us not to say what are you gay?

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, I'm gonna give you real life example. Rle.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Worked. I wasn't.

[Gary Gulman]

Boy, do we love a good acronym.

[Pete Holmes]

Speed, D, W, L, A, G A. Boy, do we love a good acronym. I'm a little foggy because I was just on the road, but here's the example, okay? I come out. It's a standard thing I do. I'm doing the helium and all the helium rooms are the same. Very well built. Yeah. The front row is really close.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So I usually open.

[Gary Gulman]

They're always snacking on hard pretzels, it seems. Or the equ.

[Pete Holmes]

You're my only friend. You're my only friend. I'm the only one that goes. Is popcorn the treat for the movies? Should we be giving these fucks big bags of feed? Just dry sheep feed. And did you turn a knob? Like hamster food for that shit? Just eating dry cr. And I just saw. Cause I was on the road. I saw the equalize of 3 kid. I saw it alone. I actually fucking loved it. I thought it was great. It's a great franchise trilogy. Let's hope it's not a trilogy because they better make Antoine make a fourth baby. Denzi's still got it. Denzy still got it.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, I love my. That. That would be a person who works at the subject. I love my density.

[Pete Holmes]

I love Denzies. You know, I love my stories. Yeah, I love my stories. I love my martini. I have one martini day. And I love my Denzies. You know, Denzies can do no wrong with me.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh. So anyway, Denzy and Aerosmith.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, you know, I'm so kind of like PTSD from growing up in Boston that I sort of am dismissive of Aerosmith just on principle.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, yeah, No, I get it. I.

[Pete Holmes]

You immediately understand.

[Gary Gulman]

No, because I ignored most of the glam metal scene. I ignored Rush because they were so popular and Rush isn't glam metal, but they were in that era. I ignored them because they were so popular with kids who teased and bullied me. So I. I said, well, I'm not em. Their. And I missed out. But now I'm really enjoying it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you got to circle back. Yeah, it's like religion. You have to go back and go like, was there something there?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Or was it just grown ups with halitosis telling me I'm going to hell.

[Gary Gulman]

No, AB. Yeah, it's absolutely right. It was the. It was the messenger. Who was it up.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And Aerosmith's good.

[Gary Gulman]

Aerosmith is. Aerosmith is excellent. But they have a lot of baggage because of what you're saying.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm going to tell you something. You pointed out Ram Dass on your way in.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm on Maui. On Maui. Like on Long Island? Yeah, I'm on Maui for the Ram Dass retreat. This is when he's alive.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's an auction where they're selling Ram Dass stuff to support his medical bills and stuff.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

So there's like a harmonium. And you know what that is? It's like a. Like an accordion, Indian kind of instrument. Anyway, we're just kind of perusing. It's the last day who walks in. But Steven Tyler, he's just living on Maui. You know, they get the ring. I saw Rick Rubin at this thing too. So there are these like spiritual musician people that live.

[Gary Gulman]

That's a good book on creativity, the Rick Rubin book.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. It frustrates me a little bit. You know why? Because it's so right and it just. It shines too bright of a light on how I'm not pure.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, stop.

[Pete Holmes]

It does.

[Gary Gulman]

Nothing is pure.

[Pete Holmes]

Just do it for its own sake.

[Gary Gulman]

Nothing is pure.

[Pete Holmes]

Get in there because you like it. And I'm going like, I need a closer that everyone will.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh. Nothing is pure. We went into this to express ourselves, but also because the hours are great. But it was more.

[Pete Holmes]

The hours are great. Can I tell you that?

[Gary Gulman]

It was more to express ourselves.

[Pete Holmes]

The set that I saw you that changed my life. You in the middle of your set, in the middle of your 10 minutes, you looked at your watch. Gary Gullman, in his early 30s, maybe late 20s.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, late 20s, probably looks at his.

[Pete Holmes]

Watch and says, has the gall. I say to camera one, the gall. I was fucking enamored. You went, I'm halfway through my work day right now. Oh my God. You said that. And a young me went, woo hoo hoo hoo. Like I fucking. Somebody put Mentos in the Diet Coke. That was me. And I was like, woo, boy.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow. I don't remember saying that. Yeah, it's a pretty good. It's a kind of cool thing for a 20 something to say it now.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd be embarrassed, but no, it was fucking incredible. Okay, so where are we? Steven Tyler was there. Yeah, he sang. He was Someone was playing the harmonium and he's saying, I'm trying to get us back to where we were going. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't really matter.

[Gary Gulman]

But this is a free flowing. It's a free exchange of ideas.

[Pete Holmes]

But let's stay on what we were saying, because that set and watching Nate Bargazzi too, dude, like, I'm not saying we're all the same. I actually, I think people are missing the point. If they go, those are clean comics. No, that's not the point. Thank you. Right. I understand that you could load their material into a machine and it would go. I didn't see one. Fuck. You know what I mean? That's not it.

[Gary Gulman]

But that was also part of the idea. Everybody's saying fuck. They've already said fuck a million times. I'm not gonna stand out by saying fuck. Harder.

[Pete Holmes]

Louder. Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Or more frequently.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But that really, the not swearing was just like an add on to the overall goal of just being unique.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is really cool. But believe it or not, I watch Nate blowing up and I'm fucking. So I'm not just saying this. You have to say that. So happy for him.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, I remember when we were at the Boston Comedy Club and Nate would get. And so would I. Now it sounds like I'm complimenting myself, but I'm just saying, like, Nate would go up and it would be sort of like uncomfortable. Like, what. What is this? Like, if anyone thinks I'm talking shit, Nate would tell you the same. He's just kind of like. And I'm up there and my phone's not working. I can see the side a lot. Like something that gets an applause when you get enough of his fans together.

[Gary Gulman]

Good.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, good comedy, people together. But it's like 1am on a Thursday at the Boston Comedy Club. Nate Bargettzi's going like, hey, what's going on with buying pars? Or whatever he's saying.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So it was this. What's another way to say a handicap?

[Gary Gulman]

It was a.

[Pete Holmes]

It was a impediment.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I would have called you for that.

[Gary Gulman]

But I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Gary, I need a synonym for handicap.

[Gary Gulman]

But I. But I think that comedy is this weird thing that I can't think of another instance where. Okay, so in baseball, you learn on a tee. They put the ball on the tee and you swing. And in the backyard, your father or mother throws it to you and is very careful. And you have a glove that fits your Hand. And then comedy. You don't know what the hell you're doing. And they put you in front of the most hostile, stingy, mean.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

People tired and you're number 32. Yes. At best, are hoping a celebrity will show up. At worst, are waiting for their best friend to go on. And then they're gonna tune out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And. And you have to try and be yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Which is the. The thing that takes the longest in comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I.

[Gary Gulman]

You can kill for years before you're even yourself for a. For a moment.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been to most any place, but I've never been to me.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow. Have you heard that song?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know what it's from.

[Gary Gulman]

That's really good.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's true. So you're supposed to go up and be. But the fucking craziest thing. Is that the advice. Let me ask you this. Does that trauma. Because let's name it. Let's call it what it was.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Starting in comedy is lowercase T trauma. But I'm going to say, just to hear what you say, it was familiar to me, going up in front of drunk, rowdy, unpredictable people.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Felt a little like, you know, I'm at home with this, like. You mean I have to turn around a bad family vacation in a Winnebago. So, like, there was a compulsion to do it, to sort of rewrite the past, to sort of use the skills I had gained in keeping the peace in my family. To, like, keep the peace out of, like, even with the club managers. Even I mentioned Joey and all the people that run. Ran the clubs. I was like, I can. I can win these very irregular, unpredictable people over by being like a. Hey, Chief. Like, call him chief.

[Gary Gulman]

Right. That's interesting. I think in a similar way. In a similar way.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't mean no laugh. I meant you don't relate in a similar way.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I do relate in a similar way in that I didn't feel like I had a lifetime of experience in mastering hostility or chaos. But what I did have was this desire to be paid attention to.

[Pete Holmes]

Why?

[Gary Gulman]

And because I was. I was. I wouldn't say I was ignored, but growing up. But the pecking order in my home was anything that was on television, anyone that was calling on the phone to my mother and then maybe me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I read that in my book.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And my father only showed up on Sundays, and he gave me his undivided attention, and there was nothing I could say or do that he wasn't mesmerized by. But it was A short amount of time. And also I was covering up this thing with my dad that I wasn't a good fighter like he was. I was being, I was being pushed around and teased in school, even though I, it turns out he, he had me repeat the first grade, which was, was a small T trauma, but, but definitely had an effect on my.

[Pete Holmes]

What was it? Why, why did he have you repeat it?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, and this is sad that I'm still telling everybody this at, at 53 years old. Can I say I was in the top reading group. I was in the top reading group. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You get both likes. I was in the top reading group.

[Gary Gulman]

And for sports reasons, felt like I would have an advantage if I repeated the first grade.

[Pete Holmes]

But he tried to outlier you.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember Outliers?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, totally. He tried to give me a January birthday and put me in the Canadian Hockey League.

[Pete Holmes]

If you've read Outliers.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh my gosh. Malcolm Gladwell is the greatest journalist in taking cockamamie theories and ideas and turning them into beautiful prose. None of his ideas holds up scientifically. Including the thing where he says stand up comedy is really easy and he could do it tomorrow.

[Pete Holmes]

He said that?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes, and that's why I'm going in on him. But his.

[Pete Holmes]

I had him on the show. Had I known.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He has no respect for stand up comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

You show you footnote this comment. Where did he say it?

[Gary Gulman]

I forget where it was, but it outraged me. And, and I, I, but, but here's the thing. I couldn't take trends and, and ideas and make them so readable like, like he does.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, no, I'm still mad.

[Gary Gulman]

He's super talented, but I'm super mad about.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't want you to put the band aid about him. Keep coming.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, about him denigrating stand up comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

How.

[Gary Gulman]

How dare you.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll say it, Malcolm, I love you, but just because we get laughs at 92nd y doing a Q and A, it's not the. No. The stress factory.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Go up at the fat. Go up at the fat Black pussycat on a sad late show.

[Pete Holmes]

After Chappelle. Oh my God.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. After Chappelle held the, the, the wait staff hostage for three and a half.

[Pete Holmes]

Hours and ask them the favorite breakfast cereals.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And, and, and a hostage negotiator comes in and says, let the manager and the wait staff go.

[Pete Holmes]

Chappelle doesn't get the light. He gets the. Gets a bullhorn from the FBI. Dave, you do not have to leave. But these people have children and babysitters yes. That's funny. Yeah, that's funny.

[Gary Gulman]

The 23 train runs express from here to the Bronx unless you let them go.

[Pete Holmes]

Now, can I tell you, and all respect to Chappelle, he used to come in and do a very, very long set. And I used to say to the manager at the Boss, because I was hosting.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Just when he let him leave the. Like, I don't need to go back up and go, Dave Chappelle, everybody know.

[Gary Gulman]

Like, he needs that.

[Pete Holmes]

I would be waiting. You know, obviously, most of the time I watched and loved it, but, you know, 15th time, you're like the F. I used to take the F train home. Oh, my word turns into the fucking D. And this isn't a time where old Petey's going, well, I'll just take a cab. Are you fucking nuts?

[Gary Gulman]

That's the whole thing.

[Pete Holmes]

We're now getting the whole thing.

[Gary Gulman]

That if I remember being so broke in New York City that if you. If you went in on the wrong side of a subway, you would think, oh, I can't afford the. The. Maybe it was $1.75 at the time to change sides of the train and go in again. I'm. I'm going to have to negotiate with the person working in that box who made Oscar the Grouch seem. Seem kind and loving. Yes. Oh, my word.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Gary Gulman]

I don't know why Oscar the Grouch was my go to. I. I'm. I've become Muppet obsessed lately.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say what's more New York? Like, that's who it is.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The Count. Can I say you brought up baseball. I'm not trying to be offensive. I have family members on the spectrum. I feel like I might be a little on the spectrum. Is everyone who plays and watches baseball on the spectrum? It's just a question. It's just a question. There's so much superstition and you know what I mean? And there's secret shit shakes and there's.

[Gary Gulman]

But also the fans and the obsession with the stats and the people in my family averages.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And they're. Each one of them is the phantom manager of the team. And they'll tell you, like, well, we haven't had. He hasn't batted third since. I'm like, this is for the superpower.

[Gary Gulman]

Is a phenomenal idea. That, that, that. That our buddy Malcolm Gladwell would be all over. It would turn into a. Let a Kindle short.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm still taking Malcolm on the road. I don't know if you've done it. I Want him to succeed, you understand? I want him to do well. But there's.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay. So when I was a kid, there was batting average, number of home runs and rbi, and you would memorize all three, and you knew everything there was to know about baseball. And so it became a thing. This is. I'm adding to your theory. It became a thing where people obsessed with the averages and numbers were really into it and attracted more and more people on the spectrum with the mask.

[Pete Holmes]

Look, if you hand out a book that you can fill this up, you're printing out an Excel spreadsheet. This is a recreation. So the beer swilling guys and the hot dog boys are hitting the bricks because this guy's willing to pay a little bit more for the ticket. And he's like filling out a scorecard and he's got a radio because he wants to. That's.

[Gary Gulman]

Come on. And now there are, I'm not exaggerating, 16 different categories that have numbers in them. One, and this is on the scoreboard while the guy is going through his 90 different obsessive compulsive moves with his batting gloves and his. And his cap. Right. And then. Yes. And this one is called number of pitches per at bat. Can you imagine wanting to count number if that isn't an opportunity for a Dustin Hoffman impression in the. In rain? My word.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this is where it came from. First of all, I just rewatched Rain Man. I had never watched. Watched it.

[Gary Gulman]

It still holds up. It's great, doesn't it? Yeah, because it was. Gary Levinson is something.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that the director? Yeah, it was R. And so my mom used to cover my face. Remember when he walks in on them having sex, my mom would cover my face and kick me out because they're swearing and stuff. I watched that movie and I relate hard to that movie. I love that. It's great.

[Gary Gulman]

No, it's fantastic.

[Pete Holmes]

It's also. Can I give that movie the ultimate compliment? I'm watching it for the first time. I said I rewatch it. Really? I meant for the first time.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know what I wanted to happen. When does that happen?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

When you're like. Because you're like, is he going to give him possession or not? And you're sitting there going like, I don't know what. That is. The ultimate compliment.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If I stop you in the middle of a story and go, gary, I'm going to be honest with you. I don't know what I want to happen. You've done a Great job building a.

[Gary Gulman]

World for a 90s movie. That kind of subtlety. Death to death. To have ambivalence, perhaps. Maltivalence.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll even say maltivalence. But, dude, that movie was addressing, again, family members on the spectrum that there was a time we used to call him idiot savants. I'm not trying to be funny. It was just, like, a cruel.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And weird time.

[Gary Gulman]

And it took movies. He's a savant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's sad.

[Pete Holmes]

That's like, idiot. Understood, though.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember savant. We know what you're saying, but savant is now a good thing. But, like, that's why I feel okay in the baseball riff, because these. These people that are doing it are genius.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm watching it. It was on a TV somewhere where Val and I were eating, and they were showing, like, the four pitches that had been thrown and the speed of them and where they went. And I was like, this is just for Vulcans. Totally. Like, if Vulcans were real, they'd be like, take me to your baseball stadium. They would fucking love it.

[Gary Gulman]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

There are. Yeah. There are people who are baseball fans who have never picked up a glove or have no interest in playing it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just looking at the inside of a clock.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's either baseball or the inside of a clock. But I'm gonna stare at one of them because I need. I need something to put all this.

[Gary Gulman]

Power on top of it. Oh, that's such a beautiful image. The inside of a clock.

[Pete Holmes]

Is there anything better?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you believe we made clocks? How badly do you want to know that? It's noon. You're gonna get tiny gears.

[Gary Gulman]

I keep reminding myself the sun's right there.

[Pete Holmes]

This guy's gotta know it's noon. Sorry, I wasn't done with the riff. But I.

[Gary Gulman]

But I keep reminding myself on the clock idea. And there are a million things like this that if suddenly everybody lost the recipe for a clock, there is no way I would be able to contribute to it. I would say, well, there are a lot of these round things with sort of teeth, but they're not teeth, but they were called teeth. And I forgot that there were springs.

[Pete Holmes]

Springs.

[Gary Gulman]

There were springs. And I don't know how you get from that collection of Items to, it's 1205, buddy.

[Pete Holmes]

And if you look at it, you're like, I would expect more if I didn't know what the inside of a clock was. And you showed me the Inside of a pocket watch. Just that, you know, you're picturing it perfectly. I'd be like, well, this keeps a man who doesn't have a heart alive. And they're like, no, it tells him when it's time to eat lunch.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, that's all it does.

[Pete Holmes]

That's all it does.

[Gary Gulman]

And it is miraculous.

[Pete Holmes]

And it took a man. Or a woman.

[Gary Gulman]

Or a woman.

[Pete Holmes]

The guy who takes a stand at the wrong times. They're like, that's not being an ally. No, it could have been a woman fucking. That's not what we asked for.

[Gary Gulman]

Gotcha, Pete.

[Pete Holmes]

Gotcha.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, it had to be a man. Cause it had teeth.

[Pete Holmes]

There is something particularly masculine about clock making. Is it because it sounds like clock making? I don't know.

[Gary Gulman]

No, it's because that guy. Cornelius. Cornelius, I think his name was on Mr. Rogers neighborhood in the land of make believe, didn't he? No. Daniel the tiger lived in a clock.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no.

[Gary Gulman]

Cornelius something.

[Pete Holmes]

Daniel Tiger lived in a clock.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because he's an. He's a harbinger. Harbinger of death. Daniel Tiger kills us in the end.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I didn't realize.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you didn't know because he's in the clock.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow. He's like.

[Pete Holmes]

So when your time is up, it's so Fred Rogers with a very clearly just Fred Rogers voice going like, he was so sweet. You go, this isn't so bad.

[Gary Gulman]

One of my proudest moments was being able to use a quote from Mr. Rogers as the epigraph to the. To the book. And it. And I'm pretty sure it's epigraph and not epigram. But that little quote you get to put at the.

[Pete Holmes]

At the book, like a closing quote.

[Gary Gulman]

The opening. The epigraph is usually the opening. And. And it's just. You write this whole book and then you get to kind of cheat by. By putting a quote at the end.

[Pete Holmes]

And as long as you footnote, nobody complains, buddy. When you go from stand up to book as you just have the fact that, like academia, for example, is just stealing. I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. You're just building on other People's. Took them 17 years to find out that fruit flies go like this. And you go. They go like this. But did you know that a bird will. And you. But you quote him and you build on that and you. Nobody cares about ripping off. Because I wrote a semi spiritual book. Nobody cares. If you go like, well, this guy says this. That's a great book.

[Gary Gulman]

But it's also great memoir in that I loved to see your particular odd relationship with your odd mother. The way that I had. We were companions to our. To our moms in different ways.

[Pete Holmes]

We were the golden boys.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. The golden boys of single mothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you know what? I just had a moment with my mom talking about that I had a little dust up with my dad, and then I called my mom, and it, like, it reactivates that relationship. I was hoping in an appropriate way, but I, like, needed my mom to be like, it's okay. And I talked to her and she's like, it's okay. You know, I heard about you and your dad. It's like time travel.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I said to her, because I have given my mom a lot of grief on this podcast and to her and just kind of same here. Been like, mom, we should see other people, stuff like that, you know? But in that relationship, it was very tender, and I was like, mom, I really think we. We just did what we needed to do.

[Gary Gulman]

Like, yeah, I can't. That's really nice.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't blame you. I understand. I was there.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like a sweet. You know what story? I'm gonna load this to you, then I want you to talk all about it. No, but my mom always tells this story that I was like 8 years old, and she says, she comes home, I come home from school, she goes, how was your day? And she's told the story a million times. And I go, it was good. How was your day? And I just sit there and I look at. And like, that's exactly what my mom. So maybe this is me softening because I'm a parent now, but I'm like, can you blame her if it. If it did get a little too. Yeah, whatever. Codependent or intertwined or whatever. What do you got?

[Gary Gulman]

Well, I think that it's very interesting to see how my mom has dealt with. With me writing about her in the. In the book. So it's. It's. I. I'm very lucky in that my wife is a really good interpreter of my mom's actions and witnesses things and is really insightful.

[Pete Holmes]

Val's like that, too, of Rosetta Stone. She's like, could it be this?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. So my. My wife has witnessed things, and she's. She's given me a lot of. Of insight into my mother, and she loves my mother, but she recognizes her weaknesses, and they are countless and they are legion. Yeah. So the book comes out, and I bring it over to her, and all along the way. And my wife's. My mother in law is problematic in her own way. But with regards to the book, when I told her I had finished the book and showed her the book, she said, oh, she's a black woman. So I. She says, we are blessed. And. And I thought this is. I just want to try it. Yeah. This is the nicest thing that a mother could say. And I wait.

[Pete Holmes]

In regards to the book.

[Gary Gulman]

And in regards to the book. And I know my mother, like, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Just the work has blessed us. We're blessed with you.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. That I have this opportunity and that I. I was able to express myself and that there's a physical artifact of. Of my ideas and my life. And. And she's a very religious woman. I mean, Sade, by the way, is. Is not especially religious, but grew up in the black church and so has a lot of the ideas and, and anyhow, I knew that was the best I was going to get from a mother figure because I knew my mother's reaction to the book would be entirely different. And I. And cultural things and there's age differences, but my mother. So we've got. We are blessed from Ms. Jeannie. And then we have Barbara Goleman at 90 years old and not a reader and not a writer. And her immediate response to me handing the book was, who's the publisher?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm dead. I'm dead. There's a. There's a certain. I call it botism. There's a certain thing that only maybe other places.

[Gary Gulman]

Jet Juettes. Yeah. Where a Jewish person will say the absolute.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like that one was not on my menu, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Where a Jewish person will say the absolute worst. Undermining, negative, cynical.

[Pete Holmes]

You're so. Your mom has.

[Gary Gulman]

And bautism and my words. So she says, who's the publisher? Then she starts examining the book, clearly looking for typos. Her name.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God, her name.

[Gary Gulman]

Or my mother scanning for her name, how she's represented. She goes to the back to check the blurbs, only reads the names of the blurbers, not what they said about the book.

[Pete Holmes]

I love in the intro where you go, there's a. There's a group of you that bought this just based on the blurbs. A shame on you. You like that? I love it.

[Gary Gulman]

Whenever you try to be funny, it's always fingers crossed. Oh, I hope this lands right. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you're a fantastic writer. The book is.

[Gary Gulman]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

We're out of time anyway. So misfit. It's such a Weird feeling.

[Gary Gulman]

Have I ever played the game with you? When I sit at the. At the comedy seller with a bunch of comedians that the comedians really. There's just two and somebody.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Gary Gulman]

But somebody will say something really funny, and then I'll turn to what I pretend is the camera and say, we'll be right back.

[Pete Holmes]

One of the best. 1. I don't know if we've done it. Oh, it's Kurt. Blanket on his last name. But there's another comedian that I like doing that with tall.

[Gary Gulman]

Jehovah's Witness.

[Pete Holmes]

No. T, J, W. Kurt. He married Clint Eastwood's daughter.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

I met him at Dane Cook's fourth of July party, and when he did the podcast, we played out. We'll be right back. Let me bring it back to this, though, and maybe Katie can find it. He did the podcast, and I'm pretty sure his name is Kurt. I'm gonna be embarrassed.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna load this back to you.

[Gary Gulman]

But he was at a July 4th party at Dane Cook's house. That must have been young.

[Pete Holmes]

What? Young people. He. No, he was always. He was older than me.

[Gary Gulman]

Still is interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

He. Gary's off the tour. Torgasm. Gary's off the tour. He disappeared. I don't know where he is. And I call you, and you go, I had a college for those of you that watch Torgasm. You're like fun Easter egg. But everyone else. What? Okay, I'm gonna give you a story.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I want to put it back to your mom and everything that happened.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

To relate. I was on Family Feud, and this actually ties into how Val interprets my. My father and my mother for me. So I'm on Family Feud, Celebrity fam. Family. With my wife's family. I was like, did I say family? Yeah. There's a moment where I made Steve Harvey laugh really, really, really hard. It's like this big moment. I was very proud of it. Of course, we didn't win, but, like, I was like. But we won. I. I made Steve like. Like, fall down. Like Black Church. It was incredible.

[Gary Gulman]

That's incredible.

[Pete Holmes]

It was a really nice moment.

[Gary Gulman]

That ain't easy. It wasn't easy to make another comedian laugh.

[Pete Holmes]

And it was real, and I loved it, and it was wonderful. So I call.

[Gary Gulman]

Are you gonna tell what the joke was?

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't remember the details exactly, but it was named something that you wouldn't expect a candle to smell like.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the woman said. I think she said. Let's say she said, green Beans. The answer is, good answer.

[Gary Gulman]

Good answer.

[Pete Holmes]

The answer. That's what you got to do.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The ant. The number one answer that they give her is like rotting fish. So I.

[Gary Gulman]

They are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's because that they're a little more lenient, maybe.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I rightly go on a little tear going. So any food. You say, any food, you get the number one answer. And then I go, what if you just go, do you get the answer? And that's what makes Steve collapse. You just go, number one answer.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh. That is fun.

[Pete Holmes]

So he dies. It's a great moment.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Call home that weekend after it aired, and my dad goes. And God love him, this isn't. I'm not saying this with any bile. There's nothing nasty here. My dad's like, I saw Family Feud. Yeah. It's a perfect impression. TV blaring in the background. Anyone else with parents that don't mute the TV for the.

[Gary Gulman]

My mother's television. I can.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Gary Gulman]

She's watching TMZ right now. Blaring, blaring.

[Pete Holmes]

I. When I'm on the phone with them in the car, I put it on the minimum volumes because it's. It's just so hard. So I can only kind of hear their voice because the TV and the.

[Gary Gulman]

That's how I did my home homework through high school with Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous blaring.

[Pete Holmes]

You're making me want to puke right now. No joke. That make. That nauseates me.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So my dad goes, I saw you on Family Food, Peter. And I'm like, yeah, well, that was fun. Like, I have to. I have to say the things. That was fun, right? Yeah. That was good for the comment.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, that moment where you made the guy laugh. Was that programmed?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, gosh. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And I go. And I know what he means, but I still want him to step it out. I go, programmed? Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Like, did you talk about it ahead of time? Oh, my gosh. That's. He doesn't believe in you, Peter. Peter. He doesn't believe in you.

[Pete Holmes]

See, that's. That's what I take. So I get a little tight.

[Gary Gulman]

Because that's what he's saying. I hear you unintentionally, subconsciously. He doesn't believe in you. That you were that quick, that sharp enough. And here's what I'd like to say to my family from the stage. Do you know how easy this is for me?

[Pete Holmes]

Good Will Hunting.

[Gary Gulman]

Good Will Hunting.

[Pete Holmes]

This is Nothing to be.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Gary Gulman]

Because I'm talented.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And just because you tried to convince me otherwise for the first 53 years of my life, I'm dying. Oh, my gosh.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like. You're my protector, you know, the part of your brain that protects you. You just became Gary Goldman, and you got real.

[Gary Gulman]

I love that.

[Pete Holmes]

So that's my flair.

[Gary Gulman]

I just hate seeing somebody else go through what was done to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And so I. Yeah. I've become Holden Caulfield over here.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you just caught me. You stopped me from running off the cliff in the rye.

[Gary Gulman]

No, it's because these fucking people had no business raising kids. And they weren't. That. My mother said something recently that everything became so clear, like this. Like this grail of Rosetta Stone, of how I became who I am. We went to see my. My nephew had a child. We went to see the baby, and so it's my mother's great grandchild. And I said, how about that? I said something, and I. I put together something, because she's always impressed by a little bit of. A little bit of sentimentality. So I said, so I know my audience. So I said, how about that? Four generations. Whatever horseshit I was, I was peddling with her because I. I like to please her, and I am relating hard to that. And she said, yeah, I'm not a baby person.

[Pete Holmes]

Your mom said that?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And. And I said to myself, oh, you mean a mother.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm dying.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not a baby person. To her baby.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, to her baby, I will say Val.

[Pete Holmes]

Do I say the H. Sade.

[Gary Gulman]

Sade.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but it's S, a D, E, so I always have Sade. Anxiety. Am I like, is that Sade?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. No, but. But Siri. But I have Sade. But it is Sade, and when you.

[Pete Holmes]

Use Siri, you have to go call Saad. Sade. Call Sade.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Who do I have in my phone like that? It doesn't matter. Who cares? Oh, my friend Kate. Kate Mallor. It's Kate Mallard. But you have to say Mallor anyway. Stupid. But, you know, I hear all that anger, and I share in that. And that was partly my experience. But then Val, Like Scarlett Johansson and the Hulk, you know, Like, I hold out my hand and she goes, sun's getting real low. You know, she kind of calms me down and goes, isn't it possible? And I'm gonna ask you, too, that. That is how he's trying to say, I saw that and I liked it. She's like, put the subtitles on and just own that. That's as close as we're gonna get to. I saw it and I liked it. We want Peter. I can make myself cry doing an impression of my father and just be like, I know we've always, you know, I don't know if we've ever had a close carving. You know, just like, like a fantasy. But like, he goes, was that programmed? Can't we, instead of getting upset, I'm just saying for our own good, step out and say, is it possible that that's him saying, I saw it and I liked it? That's what Val says. She goes, I saw it and I liked it.

[Gary Gulman]

She's an apologist. She's a Mr. Holmes apologist. That's how I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not having it.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I'm not having it. That says more about Val than it says about your. Val is a Peacekeeper and loves you and loves your dad and, and Peacekeeper. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that. That's a tricky one for us because I'm a Peacekeeper. Val's a Peacekeeper.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then like. And I'm assuming you were a Peacekeeper.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I had a middle brother who was a Peacekeeper. I. I was. I was 10 and 15 years younger than my brother. So I was just this kind of. Kind of weird remnant of my parents marriage that dissolved when I was one and a half. So. Wow. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Heavy.

[Gary Gulman]

Pretty heavy, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But you still have that when you were talking about with your mom and you want to say something, the role. It feels almost like a little politician. I talked to my brother after that little dust up with my.

[Gary Gulman]

What's his name?

[Pete Holmes]

John.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is my dad's name? John Holmes. I know you want a family joke. In our family, we call them shorty. And to say something kind and nice about my parents, they don't take anything seriously. They love jokes. You know what I mean? I like that we have a family joke.

[Gary Gulman]

Right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like when I hang out with families, we have our stuff. But when I hang out, one thing we're not. We're not stiff. You know what I mean? Nobody's being as stiff. And there's a lot of like death before wow. That's blending in or fucking. They're out there, razzle. Dazzling in their own way. I got stoned recently and had like a nice moment. I was like, oh my God, this is what this plant is for. Where I was like, I was like. I was visiting home and I was like, they're One of a kind. But I had it in the good way instead of like the angry. Like, nobody's like my parents. You don't understand my parents. I was like, oh, my God, nobody's like them. And I had real. I accessed a room that is usually mired by the.

[Gary Gulman]

The. The.

[Pete Holmes]

From the ground up. Seaweed of. Of. Of what I wish it was, but I got past it.

[Gary Gulman]

That's a great attitude. Because they are a gift to somebody like us or David Sedaris. His family is just.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what Val says. She. Is that what Sade says. She's like. That's the Goman factory.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. I mean, my. My. My wife has really interesting takes on my family because she's also seeing them as an outsider, not just of my family, but as a. As a black person. Yeah. And somebody who didn't grow up around. Around a family of Jews of our age. Yeah. And background. So she's. She's sort of an anthropologist in that way.

[Pete Holmes]

Was that part of the appeal? Because I was looking for somebody different, too. The thought of dating someone from Boston. Is Sade from Boston?

[Gary Gulman]

No, she's from Trenton, New Jersey. She went to the same high school my dad went to, but 60 years apart.

[Pete Holmes]

Little. Whoa. But she's. You didn't want to reenact the pattern. You were looking for a new. Not just a new record, but a different record store. Right. But completely. Let's move away.

[Gary Gulman]

The main thing in that she.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not. That's not code for black, by the way.

[Gary Gulman]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm not saying you went to the black record store. I'm saying you want it different from.

[Gary Gulman]

What you differ from my family is that my family are the simpletons. And Sade is an intellectual of the. Of the highest order. I mean, she's a. She's a renaissance.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. She. She reads in. In physics and science and. And feminist studies. And she went to the Tisch School at NYU for. For theater and writing. And so she's. She's a really special.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's great to have this brain watching your family. What are they. Would you mind sharing any of her takes? Something that might help people?

[Gary Gulman]

I had an argument with my mother because somebody put on a video of me on a. On a. On an. On a talk show. I think it was the Tamron Hall. And at the time I had long hair and a goatee. And my mother said, ugh, you look evil. And. And immediately I went to DEFCON 1 and I said, how can you say that about your about yourself. A lot of people are confused about the DEFCON ratings because of Kanye west saying that he was at DEFCON. First of all, it's DEFCON. He was at DEFCON 3 on the Jews. And it turns out DEFCON 3 is not that severe. DEFCON 1 is really. That's nuclear war. But DEFCON death con 3 on the Jews. We still have time to get our affairs in order.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a siren. Yeah, you have time.

[Gary Gulman]

I think death con 3 was pretty much the Cold War era. We were always at around three or three and a half. But I mean, this is just a person who saw war games six times in the. In the theater.

[Pete Holmes]

So Kanye was offensive and inaccurate.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, that's. I don't know which bothered me more, the anti Semitism or the. The not getting the words.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's hard to say.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And. And then so we had an argument over that. And I said, you know how hurtful that is, and why is everything about my appearance like I am an extension of you? And Sade said, you're arguing, and not in front of my mother. But later, after things calm down, she said, you're arguing with her like she's an equal, and she is. And she said, I don't mean this in a. In a pejorative manner. She's a simple woman. She knows good, bad, like, dislike. Pretty ugly.

[Pete Holmes]

You're trying to put it on.

[Gary Gulman]

Yum. And you are. Are bringing in 30 years of. Of therapy and. And Jungian psychology and Camus and. And all the other things you've read. And all she knows is that she didn't like your hair and she found it revolting.

[Pete Holmes]

You. Can I call Sade when I need this?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I've said. You know how many times I've said this with week? I just resent sometimes. Not sometimes.

[Gary Gulman]

Often.

[Pete Holmes]

I was on an airplane. I talked with the woman the whole flight, and it was a great chat. I enjoyed the chat. But they, like a lot of people were going like, you know, the things you leave unsaid with family, you'll regret, so you should do it. They were like, sit knee to knee, look eye to eye and say this, this, and this. This made me feel this way. And I hear now Sade's voice going like. Like, what do you. I say, you might as well be telling me to speak Portuguese to a tennis ball. That's not putting down the tennis ball. And I'm not degrading the Portuguese language.

[Gary Gulman]

My therapist said, and.

[Pete Holmes]

And that doesn't make me a Coward. It doesn't make me not doing the work. And you know what I said? I was like, you know what I can handle regret. You know what I can't handle? I can handle regardless. You know what I can't handle? Is that.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You're talking to me like you're saying, you know what I say? It's not people. You're picturing a person. You're picturing, like, a thing. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes, like, in your situation, you're speaking Portuguese, different things. And that doesn't mean you're not brave and honest.

[Gary Gulman]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

And I crave closeness with my family, but that's not the way to do it. And that's not the way for everybody. So I do want to say let's stop. Stop assuming that that's a safe endeavor for everybody.

[Gary Gulman]

That is such a great insight. And I. And I. I love that. Yeah, I can live with regrets.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's what Val's therapist says. She goes, regrets manageable.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And my therapist said something similar. He said about my entire family. They're not taking any new information.

[Pete Holmes]

That is great. And I didn't know Ray Romano was seeing people therapeutically.

[Gary Gulman]

Alan Lefkowitz is his name. And it. And there are a number of friends that we have that. That see him to Bobby Kelly going in and out. Or. Or Joe List.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's a warm couch after.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, it's a warm couch. And Bobby, he's so funny. And he would say if he'd come in after me. So you leave anything for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, he's gonna be done. Done doling it out. But he sees this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the conversation I had with my brother, that I wanted to know, you said, I know what to say, you know, to your mother. She likes sentimentality.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm saying this out of a beautiful. Like, this is me in my. Because under all the anger is the sadness. Right. It's the colorful candy shell on the sadness. Eminem. Right. Under it is a little boy. Me still wanting closeness, wanting connection, wanting good for them, wanting good for the family. So there's still this like. Like desire to connect. Boy. I was hoping I was going to remember what I was trying to say.

[Gary Gulman]

With your brother John. Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I call him. What did my brother say, though? We're talking about now. This almost never happens.

[Gary Gulman]

That's okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It is okay.

[Gary Gulman]

It'll come back to us. We'll circle back.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When you said, do you have any idea how easy this is for me?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

I got the chills.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, really?

[Pete Holmes]

Goodwill hunting.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. It just keeps giving to us, doesn't it?

[Pete Holmes]

It just keeps. Keeps getting.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Sade and I were over at your house and we watched it together. And it's one of my favorite moments right here. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you remember?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't get enough and forgive me, everybody, but I'm gonna.

[Gary Gulman]

And I don't think I've ever done a better TV set than what I did on the Pete Holmes show. That I watch that now, and usually we cringe. And I watch it now and I think, oh, that's what joy looks like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Comfort and being embraced. That was a. That was a great feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

That was a special thing, too, because the Pete Holmes show was such a tree house.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like climbing up into a tree house.

[Gary Gulman]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And there were Rolling Stones and Mad magazines. Yeah. You know what I mean? And there was an old Nintendo, and we had electric running on a long orange extension cord, and it was just safe. And we were going like, let's make the comics safe. And you came out and you're one of the best that's ever done it.

[Gary Gulman]

Living or dead.

[Pete Holmes]

Living or dead.

[Gary Gulman]

I told you to say living or dead. At the end of that, whenever you say living or dead, you say, I'm the greatest. Imagine if I wrote it out. Can you imagine?

[Pete Holmes]

I can. I'm gonna toss this Matt Damon at you, and I'm almost done. Everybody knows I say this a lot, but the Bourne trilogy is about trying to break family trauma, break bad patterns. I'm gonna say one point. Bourne Ultimatum, the best one.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Who is he trying to meet at Waterloo Station? He's trying to meet a reporter. He wants witness. He wants someone to hear his story. He was inducted through waterboarding into a system that he did not want to join. Can you commit to this program? Sounds like my dad, doesn't it? Can you commit to this? Was that programmed? And he goes, I can't. They make him in. That's your genes. That's your upbringing. That's your school. That's everything. They're not even doing it maliciously. That's just what they think. We gotta train you to be a killer for your safety.

[Gary Gulman]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Then he's had enough.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He meets Marie, who I actually think is the mom. His girlfriend is the mom.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

She dies, so the mom is taken. And then Pamela Landy, who's the woman on the inside that helps him come in, that's his wife. That's his Sade.

[Gary Gulman]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the. She's smart. She understands the system. So he goes to Waterloo to meet a reporter. So the reporter will write a story about what's happening. That's what we're looking for with therapists, with friends, with. With relationships. Can you bear witness to what happened? Because if we can quote Fred Rogers, if it's mentionable, it's manageable.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's talk about it.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow. Todd Glass said that to me again last night.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't mention other podcasts.

[Gary Gulman]

I'm sorry about that. He doesn't pot, he doesn't cast anymore. So I think it's safe. But I'm also getting. I'm also getting a lot of Homer's the Odyssey vibe in the telling the tale and the. And the being forced into going on an odyssey and. Yeah, yeah, and. But also the coming back with the elixir and wanting everybody to. To know about it with the.

[Pete Holmes]

The hero's journey.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, the hero's journey.

[Pete Holmes]

You bring it back to the village.

[Gary Gulman]

It's not surprising. It's. It's a Jungian, right?

[Pete Holmes]

It is. It absolutely is. In fact, Falling upward, which I'm looking at. It's on the bookshelf there by Richard Rohr is looking at the Odyssey through a spiritual lens and being like, that's what we all have to do do.

[Gary Gulman]

Can I take a break to use the restroom? I'm really sorry about that.

[Pete Holmes]

Sweat it out, Gary. Sweat it out. I am so excited about this latest pizza pick, which is First Person, a mushroom based supplement that helps us naturally produce more oxytocin. This is a product that has literally changed both my and Val's life, giving us more oxytocin, also known as the feel good hormone. From our friends at First Person Person. What is it? It's called Golden Hour. Using precision targeted supplements with functional mushrooms that aim to stimulate the body's natural production of specific neurotransmitters that trigger activities like energy, mood and sleep. That's a fancy way of saying, here's an all natural supplement that is going to help your body produce more oxytocin. Golden Hour helps me tune into a sense of joy, connection and relaxed presence. I noticed the difference the first time I took it within 15 minutes. It's incredible. And that effect has only built over time. The more I use it, it helps support your body's natural production of oxytocin to mitigate stress, boost the mind body connection, and it may even help promote long term cognitive health. So we're always talking about oxytocin. I mean, it's huge the feel good hormone. How do you get it? Turns out our friends are here to help. But that's not all. I loved Golden Hour so much. I take all three of First Person's family of supplements and I'm so glad I do. Sunbeam maximizes productivity and creative activities by turning into inspired, focused mindset by supporting the body's natural production of dopamine. So now we got another hormone going. Dopamine to activate the brain's motivation and reward system. I'm like on demand and moonlight helps me stay in deep restorative sleep longer. Waking feeling clear and well rested by supporting the body's natural production of the GABA neurotransmitter to relax the central nervous system preparing the brain and body for sleep. These are meant to be stacked. They work so well together. But if you're going to try one, I would start with Golden Hour. They are so incredible. I take Sunbeam for the dopamine. I take Golden Hour for the oxytocin so I feel joyful and motivated so I take them at the same time time. And of course I take moonlight before bed for the perfect night of sleep. It's 100 grain free organic mushrooms as well as highly curated blend of neuroceuticals. First Person is a game changer. It's an incredible company. I'm so glad to be working with them. So start improving your brain health and cognition with first person. You can get 20 off your first order by going to get firstperson.com and use promo code weird. Weird. That's get firstperson.com and use Promo code weird. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. 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[Gary Gulman]

Gary ask you about a dynamic of the book with your family.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh yeah, because we only got who published it, right?

[Gary Gulman]

There are things that I'm sure they'll be embarrassed by or think, well, that's not what happened book. Yeah, or that the or with my mother. She'll say that she was embarrassed that I talked about her stealing greeting cards from the Hallmark store she worked at. And so she called me about that and it's just how was that part of the dread? Because I'm shaking of it coming out the book was that, oh, I'm going to hear from my family and they're going to like they do at every comedy show. Well, that wasn't true, was it? It is that how that happened? And second guessing and undermining. And I worked out this thing in my head because I've thought about it and I wonder what you think about this. And to anything they say, if they really get down on me, I will say, I could have gone harder. It could have been worse. Just be grateful.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you know, the end.

[Gary Gulman]

Lamont, I was easy on you.

[Pete Holmes]

The end. Lamont, question quote, which is, you should.

[Gary Gulman]

Have been nicer to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. If people don't like how you wrote about them, they should have been kinder.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, I forgot about that. Oh, my gosh.

[Pete Holmes]

Everyone who writes a book needs that.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, that's really helpful.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

You thought about that when you were.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, dude, I realized that I wrote the book trying to be my own reporter at Waterloo Station. Like, I like, I was like, I'm gonna put it in black and white.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I actually had a nice call with my folks. I didn't go that hard, but there was a nice moment where I felt seen. It was very brief. It was on the call. They had just read it. But I also think there was some stuff. Somehow it got back to me that it was like, I think somebody in my family. I'm still too scared to be specific, but somebody was like, peter's a drug addict or something. Because I talk about taking mushrooms in the. Right.

[Gary Gulman]

Right. That's hilarious.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like. Like, that is.

[Gary Gulman]

But when we were kids, we would have thought, Pete is a drug addict.

[Pete Holmes]

You're right. But this is Sade.

[Gary Gulman]

He's good, bad. Yeah, he does. He's a stoner.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And a burnout.

[Pete Holmes]

Even though the book goes to great lengths to being like, this was weird for me too. And this is what it meant to me. And all this stuff and that understanding faded away very quickly.

[Gary Gulman]

That region of the country and our families never got artists.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

We would. They referred to as artsy fartsy. And one of the hottest things. One of the hardest things to do as an adult. Yeah. Was as an. As an adult performing and writing was to see this as art and as an artist. And that these sentences were, in their way, poetic. And that's a tough transition to make from where we came from. And it makes me admire Damon and Affleck even more because they were Able to maintain this street cred. But also they tell stories of being really into the theater when they were in high school even. And it must have been that their parents being from Cambridge and. And understanding artists and. And creativity, because we just didn't. We didn't have that. And. And the artists would denigrate. And they were going to be broke and. And the perpetual students and the starving artist, and it just. It. It makes me want to take a flamethrower to this place.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's a YouTube.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. That's a great New England movie, man. Scent of a Woman gets me so pumped up sometimes. If I was half the man I used to be, I'd take a flight.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Gary Gulman]

And Harry, you too.

[Pete Holmes]

And it cuts to them in the crowd. There's an insert of them listening. Little Phil Hoffman. Yeah, Phil.

[Gary Gulman]

Phil Hoffman, even as a child, was out acting everyone around him, including Al Pacino.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah, I know, right? I know. How good is he in that movie?

[Gary Gulman]

Heartbreaking.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. You mean what happened even within that movie?

[Gary Gulman]

It's heartbreaking.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I agree.

[Gary Gulman]

Because he had a little bit of a conscious and a little bit of a. Of a. Of a heart in that movie, and he just. Yeah. And he was just a pawn of.

[Pete Holmes]

Talented Mr. Ripley, too. That was the pe. Tom.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

So good.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's when we were like, boogie and boogie Nights.

[Pete Holmes]

Boogie Nights. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[Gary Gulman]

Scotty.

[Pete Holmes]

Who knew?

[Gary Gulman]

Who knew?

[Pete Holmes]

Who knew he could do that?

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Because there was a time when we didn't know that Philip Hoffman was, like, gonna be a great actor. She was just a guy. And send him over. And you're kind of like, yeah, that's probably just who that guy is. No, you know what I mean? He's like. Or whatever.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He's in Boogie Night.

[Gary Gulman]

Give me one of those great hugs.

[Pete Holmes]

So good. I. It's.

[Gary Gulman]

Chris Fleming loves watching Al Pacino in Anything and Only the Al Pacino. And it's. Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's so cutting to just the Pacinos in Just the Pacinos just skip in.

[Gary Gulman]

The heat and scoff. Well, Scarface, it's all Pacino, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's funny, because that was my movie. When I watched Scent of a Woman, I wrote my dad a letter.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

See? Talk about books. Right? And I want. Let's get back to your book. But, like, it's always been trying to get to Waterloo Station.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Trying to put it on paper so you couldn't change it. But that was just Like a love letter to my dad.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And I still stand by a lot of what I said, because when I was a kid, like, you know, 15, 13, maybe drive a fucking Winnebago to Staten Island. Park it in Staten Island. Take the ferry. I just thought, like, there was a feeling that Manhattan was like a special place for very savvy people.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course, having lived there, you're like, that's not true. But.

[Gary Gulman]

No, but it was overwhelming on my first visits. And actually, I should give myself more credit for this for navigating it and feeling it at home and comfortable there and not terrified of missing the connection or the transfer and all that. Yeah, no, it's a lot because I do have friends who said, I can't handle it. It's too anxiety provoking for me, and they have to avoid it.

[Pete Holmes]

And then what you realize to survive in Manhattan is you have to carve out your little web way.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not the whole thing. Don't do the whole thing. No, you're a little way. Yeah. And that's why, again, when I say I'm a little on the spectrum, I don't know if that's true, but, like, I thrived in that way. I always ate at my moons, you know what I mean? That's my pre show meal. And I always catch this train and go, I need. Just get in.

[Gary Gulman]

Your little ritual is very comforting that it helps if you look onto something.

[Pete Holmes]

It's true. If you look at all of it, it's paralysis. But if you're just like, that's why Stan up. Coming into Manhattan and learning the city, I mean, talk to any comic. You're like, it's over by Broadway. Broadway Club. It's by got. It's by the old Gotham. You know what I mean? It's by the old improv. Like, these are still the landmarks because that's where we went. Totally riddled with adrenaline. So of course we remember where it is.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. But it's the adrenaline. That's a great point because I am driving around the city, going to different. Different interviews and plugs and things. And I'm going by the Laugh Factory and I'm going by the store, and I'm filled with bile.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Because these were places that shut me out while I. While I lived here and I couldn't get on. And Jamie Masada was convincing. I don't know if you ever heard about this, but his thing was to get young comedians to be a character that had nothing to do with their life or their biography. So he would say, okay, body, you are the garbage man. You do only jokes about garbage. And it was this incredibly cynical, calculated idea to get development deals from the networks because they were very lucrative in the 90s and up until 2000. And it was just so twisted.

[Pete Holmes]

You're trying to hack the system.

[Gary Gulman]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

What did he tell you to do? Luckily, you are told you to me.

[Gary Gulman]

He said, you. You like kid who never grow up. And so I was like, all right, that's not actually true, but at least it's a little bit closer to what I. Yeah. You're making me realize when I was.

[Pete Holmes]

In New York, I'm a little bit silly in a loving way. Was like, you should wear long sleeve T shirts and like an Atari shirt over it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Because you had to have a hook. But here's the thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, look like an alt kid in a Capri sun commercial.

[Gary Gulman]

Wrong. In terms of commerce in that TV is a very efficient look.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Look that way.

[Gary Gulman]

Business. Yeah. You. It probably held me back that I didn't look my, like my act at any point that people were interesting. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When I saw you, I don't remember often what people are wearing. And I'm sure I mentioned this the other two times, but when you did that set of the Comic Connection, you were wearing a heart. A red. A crimson red Harvard.

[Gary Gulman]

Harvard football sweatshirt. Yeah, I still have that sweatshirt. And I was like, adorable, man.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, what is this? Because again, comedy was like, if you need a place to open a beer, you put it on a can. You bop it. You bop it like a gopher in your fucking yacht. Now I'm drinking a beer.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Unless you are fucking pussy.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. And then you come up looking like Malcolm Gladwell, to be honest. And proving that stand up is quite easy. You know, I'm just kidding. So let's talk a little bit more about the book. Your mom didn't like, like the greeting cad stuff.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And she's not gonna like me talking about her twin brother who was a burglar and fence.

[Pete Holmes]

The best word to say in a Boston accent, burglar.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, he. He was a. A very interesting, very entertaining man. But he was. He was a. A derelict and a lunatic and. And didn't bathe and had had a very interesting story about Uncle Norman was that he was working at the post office and there was a big snow bank and it was very snowy. And his job at the post office was he was a janitor. So you did everything involving that when you were a custodian in the. In the 50s or 60s.

[Pete Holmes]

You are custodian. Yeah, yeah. Not a good accent.

[Gary Gulman]

Right. But Uncle Norman was a custodian at the post office. It was a government job and it had benefits and he was, he was shoveling some snow and a truck, either a Sears truck or a truck associated with another deep pocketed corporation, backed into Uncle Norman. And as this was happening, Uncle Norman always told us, he said, and I knew at that moment my time had arrived. And, and that lawsuit, with that lawsuit, he bought a house. And with that house, it was a duplex, so he was able to rent.

[Pete Holmes]

Out the other part, like the guy in the wheelchair. And he's like, if you wait, yeah, something good is coming down the line and it's like a huge injury and a loss.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. And he was just thrilled. And, and for the rest of his life he, he dealed in stolen merchandise. And, and so we, I, I don't know if I talked about. Yeah, I don't know if I talked. That's the irony. I don't know if I talked about this in the, in the book, but we would have great electronics and we were broke, we were on food stamps, but we would have a good TV and a good stereo. Throughout the 70s. It was never the same TV, never the same stuff because he would resell things that he had given us. And, and like one year we had a. Yeah, we would bring it back and then he would get us another one. And it was either the same, better or worse. But, but beggars can't be choosers. And then my, my Uncle Norman at one point, and it was probably just. He was storing it at my mother's house until the heat was off. We had a pinball machine in our kitchen and not a plastic one that you would get at Sears. It was a, it was from an arcade or a sub shop. It was a sub shop pinball machine.

[Pete Holmes]

What was it? Tell me.

[Gary Gulman]

It was Aaron Smith Kitchen. No, it was the, it was not the who's Tomorrow, but that's the only one that people know pinball machines. It was a, it was a stock car racing type thing and it was old fashioned. It didn't have the digital. It was really old, but it was, it was really cool, man. And at one point my brothers took off the, the glass that covered it so we could just run up the high scores by flicking the, the things while we were playing pinball. And it was just, it was a lot of fun. And it was this weird little oasis of utter poverty where we had essentially an arcade. And also I had A gumball machine, like from the front of the grocery store that Uncle Norman had lifted. And so I started this candy store in my garage called Gully's Gumballs. And you could. You didn't have to ride your bike to 7:11. You could buy a gumball in my garage. And as the. And let me tell you something. The gumball was a loss lease for the, for the candy that I bought at a. At a candy store in, In Lynn, Mass. And I would resell it at a huge markup. I just wanted to get you in the door at the.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it got. Garage door.

[Gary Gulman]

It got you in. It's a drum on Amazon.

[Pete Holmes]

They don't make money on the street.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna. Yeah, you're gonna buy a Mallow cup or. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Gulman's. What was it?

[Gary Gulman]

I was Gully's Gumballs. And I was an entrepreneur until I was telling the story of my, of my coup. I thought I had invented capitalism because I was telling somebody at a Passover Seder, I said, so what I do is I buy the candy for a nickel and then I sell it for a dime. Like I had invented some brilliant scheme. I had invented profit. I had invented profit. And my.

[Pete Holmes]

Invented profit.

[Gary Gulman]

My middle brother. And I don't know if you had this with anybody in your family. Their job was to. Anytime there was a swelling of my self esteem, they would immediately pop it. So I'm telling the story about my brilliant scam of charging more than I paid for candy. And my brother Max said, don't be so obnoxious. And Pete, I don't. I don't know how many times you've been slapped in the face. Yeah, but it was, it was that. But worse, it hit me right in the stomach and it just. And it was in front of people and I was on such a high and, and he was so put off by my personality that I. And, and, and you're giving them the benefit of the doubt. You're like, oh, he was probably 2 or 3 years old, but like I said, he was 19 years old when he just robbed me of. Of any kind of. Of pride and excitement. And I just remember that was like kind of a. There were a number of things that, that were demarcation points in my childhood, but that one was a real like, holy, I'm not the same as I was before he said that.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow. Yeah, there's a Jimmy Eat World song that I love. And the middle. It's not the middle.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, the middle is a.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a great song.

[Gary Gulman]

It's a great song.

[Pete Holmes]

That was my divorce anthem. It'll just take some time.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It'll get better. Everything will be all right. That saved me.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was in the car listening to, like, Drop Kick Murphy's and feeling angry. And then Jimmy World comes on, mixes up the vibe. This is Ray Radio Days. Yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I get it.

[Pete Holmes]

So I hear. It's gonna be okay. Put it in. Crashing. I'm listening to the middle Little Easter egg. Who cares? Who cares? But there's a song called Lucky Care. I know you care. We care.

[Gary Gulman]

We're caring.

[Pete Holmes]

We're creating the caring. Yeah, but you made it weird. Creating the caring. 2013. Jesus. Anyway, the chorus of the song is, you sucked that lucky feeling right out of me.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I really relate to that because it's a thing.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a little baby bird.

[Gary Gulman]

So careful with any kind of accomplishment. So they're. They're publishing a. An excerpt from the book in Rolling Stone. And I know. Yeah. And I know if I were to tell my mother or my brothers or anyone, they would say, either, oh, I don't read that, or, oh, good for you. Good for you. And. And it'll just take all the excitement. So I don't share anything with them because they can suck the joy. Right. They're joy vultures, these people, and they just. They never match my enthusiasm for anything. Who's the publisher? Ugh.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And is there a publisher I could have mentioned that she would have known, other than Random House? Or. It's.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just left with it's not enough or whatever?

[Gary Gulman]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it never. It never ends. And sadly, I still need to. To. I wouldn't say impress her, but make her. Make her proud. And compliments you get. I don't. Let's go over these. Have you ever gotten. I don't know how you remember it all.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Terrible one.

[Gary Gulman]

It's a terrible. That's not a compliment. No. And if you said that to them, they would accuse you of being sensitive.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. That's really, really hard. I've gotten the money. Look at you in California, following your dream.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

That was at a funeral.

[Gary Gulman]

Patty Ross.

[Pete Holmes]

It was at a funeral. And my brother was standing next to Patty Ross. No.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, she. She's this great comedian and actress. You'd recognize her because she's been in a lot of Boston filmed movies. She was in. She was in like. Like, not the Fighter, but she was in Spotlight. She played one of the secretaries and she's a great article. Guys, guys. She's got this great voice and she was, she was a stand up who came out here and immediately was embraced and, and, and, and pushed ahead. But she told me something early on in comedy that was so great because the audiences could be just, just treacherous in Boston. She said, fourth wall. Them. Fourth wall.

[Pete Holmes]

They put a wall between you.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. You don't need to acknowledge these people. People. They're lemmings. They're lemmings.

[Pete Holmes]

I've heard a different strategy, which is sometimes don't build a connection like a tube from you to them. Put a tube up into the sky, like into a higher power or another meaning. Because sometimes it's not safe. It goes back to Portuguese to the tennis ball. Sometimes it's not a safe connection.

[Gary Gulman]

To establish, you find a safe one. It's great to put it into that area of the audience.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Gary Gulman]

You can't find a safe place. 1.

[Pete Holmes]

Put it to the sky. Totally put it to the sky. Or talk to Shade. Talk, Talk to my person. Collect the people like me. I'm seeing your. Your book is brilliant. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I thought you self published it. Then I, then I. Then I dig you. I thought you self published it. And I still liked it. I was kind of sad when I saw Gully's Gumballs Publishing made it. I'm like, oh, he's in the hole on this one. 1. Let me ask you this.

[Gary Gulman]

Here's the thing. I lied when I told my mother.

[Pete Holmes]

You said Random House.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I said, I said Macmillan. But it's a, it's a, it's an imprint of McMillan called Flat Iron.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

But she wouldn't know. Flat Iron.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And I knew. All she asked me for was that so she could brag to her friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And so I said macmillan, which isn't a. It is. It's a white lie. I don't know what, I don't understand what the difference is.

[Pete Holmes]

Harper Wave published mine. That's Harper One impression print from Harper Collins. From Harper Collins.

[Gary Gulman]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm telling my folks. Yeah, Harper Collins.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Because they don't, they don't get anything. And I mean, I'm a recurring character on Life and Beth with Amy Schumer. And I have not told my mother because she doesn't understand what Hulu is.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so funny.

[Gary Gulman]

What you're just saying it's funny and it's kind of sad.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it is sad. But it was funny. How you said it. I'm seeing myself.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm seeing.

[Gary Gulman]

Here's.

[Pete Holmes]

This will drive you crazy, but it's fun watching you get crazy. I'm never going to forget. Do you understand how easy this is for me? My dad. My dad always goes, on a scale of 1 to 10, Peter, how big of a deal is this?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And God love him for trying it.

[Gary Gulman]

They are trying it, but they're also telling you how big of a deal it is to them. Them?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that they.

[Gary Gulman]

They. My father was really good at matching my enthusiasm for something and understanding what level of enthusiasm there should be for to match my enthusiasm for this. And he teaches you indirectly, subconsciously, how you can get with him and you can get excited and he'll match your enthusiasm because he loves seeing me excited. And so. So that he's passed. But there's so many things where my mother will say, oh, your father would be so proud of the.

[Pete Holmes]

He's passed at the Cellar.

[Gary Gulman]

He's passed at the Cellar.

[Pete Holmes]

He's passed everywhere.

[Gary Gulman]

He got two recommendations and, and, and the SD saw him on a Friday night and he won. He went on after Pete Davidson did a guest spot. That wasn't easy.

[Pete Holmes]

That wasn't easy. Yeah, right. The waves.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. So my dad.

[Pete Holmes]

It matches your enthusiasm.

[Gary Gulman]

Matches my enthusiasm. And so, and so the, the book. I know how excited he would get because he got excited when I made one out of two free throws at the. At the free throw line. Anything I did, he was excited by, because he took great joy in me. Took great. That's what they never tell you about being a parent, is that it is important. As important as getting them through college to enjoy them.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Can I tell you. Okay. I think you should read these books. Father Greg Boyle.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't get sweaty. He is a. He is a priest.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I, I.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know.

[Gary Gulman]

I went to a Jesuit college.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember. And he's a Jesuit, so you'll love it.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I love them.

[Pete Holmes]

He's incredible. Tattoos on the heart, the whole language. And I'm blanking on the other one, but just get any of his books on. On audio. They're great, great books. All right, so he works with gang members, and he tells story after story. He's one of my, like, fathers. You know what I mean? Like, he's a guy that's, like, just filled a place in my heart. And he tells these stories of, like, gang members coming in and being, like, proud of their report cards. And he's, like, straight A's he's like, check it out. Gee, I got straight A's. And he opens it, and it's like, C, D, F, A, C. Yeah. And he goes, you know his inner monologue. He's like, oh, this guy doesn't know. He doesn't even say, this is what I would say. This guy doesn't know what straight A's means. But he probably says something more gentle, like a little confusion on what straight A's means. But he just goes, oh, son, you did it. This is incredible. And there's. There's this thing that Richard Rohr says about our relationship to God that I think about all the time, is that, like, we are like children drawing bad crayon drawings and God puts them on the fridge. Oh, my word.

[Gary Gulman]

What an image. What an anatom. That's incredible.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's it. That's. You know, as we're talking about these human letdowns, it did put me in me a yearning to find the source.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? It sent me on the journey to go like, sure, look, I think we're looking maybe in the wrong place. People are always gonna be people, but you can be the twinkle in the eye. You can look at the report card and go, go, son, you did. I'm so proud of you. And I know there's people out there that people gave Mr. Rogers shit. But it's like, it's. And Mr. Rogers said it's all love or lack of it, Right?

[Gary Gulman]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

So, yeah, you could go, what's this f. You know what I say to that? Off, like, pick your moments. You know what I mean? Lila does it all the time. She says something wrong or she. She's just completely wrong about something. And I go, I didn't know that. I didn't know birds are robots or whatever. Whatever it is.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't know that.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or you know what I do with Lela? Not to toot my own, but, like, I say, what do you think?

[Gary Gulman]

A lot.

[Pete Holmes]

She goes like, we went on Pirates of the Caribbean. And she goes, is that pirate real? I'm like, what do you think? You know what I mean? It's just fun.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, man, that is.

[Pete Holmes]

I know you don't want to have kids because you're too old now. I'm just kidding. Because of the Great Depression. We've talked about that before. Yeah, but I just want to give you love. I'm not judging that. I'm saying you are a great father. You have that energy, and when you share this wisdom, you're giving it to people. It's beautiful.

[Gary Gulman]

Well, that's so nice to hear. I appreciate that. But Sade and I are going through some steps involving.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm sorry. Here. I'm holding you to that. Ten years ago.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And that's. Forgive me, that's not a euphemism for having sex. Taking steps to.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want to take some steps?

[Gary Gulman]

No, they're.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, eating oysters helps.

[Gary Gulman]

Because.

[Pete Holmes]

Take steps.

[Gary Gulman]

There are. There are things. Because with regards to pregnancy. She's 37.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And so we're going to be 37.

[Pete Holmes]

And you gotta watch Adam ruins everything.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

There's an Adam ruins everything about pregnancy.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Must watch.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Because the risk.

[Gary Gulman]

I enjoy that guy.

[Pete Holmes]

He's incredible.

[Gary Gulman]

Sharp man.

[Pete Holmes]

The risk. So when people say that your risk doubles at a certain age of something going goofy, goofy. It goes from something like 0.01 to.02.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I'm saying? So you need to watch it. It'll make you feel.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Better. It made us feel better about breastfeeding. It's a gift. Anyone I talk to going into this? You have to watch the. Adam Ruins Everything on pregnancy.

[Gary Gulman]

Okay, cool.

[Pete Holmes]

It's incredible. So you're. You're thinking about. About it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're sniffing around.

[Pete Holmes]

You're going.

[Gary Gulman]

We're taking steps, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, buddy, I already said. But I'm like, you are a dad.

[Gary Gulman]

You're a dad. Thanks, man.

[Pete Holmes]

You're a dad.

[Gary Gulman]

Thanks. And yeah. Yeah. That's really nice to hear.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like such a. I feel like an old guy in your temple being like, it's a mitzvah, but that's how I feel. I hope it happens. I hope this out beautiful.

[Gary Gulman]

I think would be really cool. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. Goodwill hunting. Well, I just got sidetracked. I was gonna say, what. What do you make of this? When you said, I still want my family to understand. See, compliment, whatever.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Even though, you know intellectually and you kind of were hard on yourself, you're like, I still go back and I still go.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I have to. And I need.

[Gary Gulman]

You said something the last time, either on stage or backstage at. At Lago, where you were saying. No, it was backstage in your dressing room where you said, I don't. Your father just showed up and you said, I don't let them come to my shows, and I don't invite them. And I remember thinking to myself. And not as a bit. I just remember thinking to myself, you can do that. I thought you had to allow these toxic people into your, into your show because they, they spent a lot of money to get you through school. School and everything. But, but it's, it's such a healthy thing. And this time around, because of that, I, I, I felt like while my mom is, is a big star of the book, I'm, I'm going to have her come and I'll pay for her to be driven into Boston and, and she'll say the same thing she says after every show, which is, how do you remember it all?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Which is, you know, I tell you the story.

[Pete Holmes]

My dad came, even though I told him not to come.

[Gary Gulman]

Right to the Wilbur.

[Pete Holmes]

Right to the Wilbur. And I told a story that involved. I still tell this story, actually, I'm still doing it involved him not knowing he had pushed the wrong button on his phone. And I, you know, standing ovation, thousand, whatever people. Wilbur, big deal. Homecoming, always special.

[Gary Gulman]

Special.

[Pete Holmes]

And my dad, again, I want to buffer this with like, everyone's doing the best they can. I get it. But the comment that he said was that didn't happen. That was what he said.

[Gary Gulman]

He goes, that never happened.

[Pete Holmes]

Happened. The story.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, the point of the story was that you didn't know it was happening. Like, that's the, that's the mechanism of the story was that you were in the dark. So, and then I don't know if your family is like this. Then the next day I'm talking to my mom and my, she'll be like, your father loved it. And like, I'm like, it's interesting.

[Gary Gulman]

They fact check my, my set and, and question whether I.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's the question.

[Gary Gulman]

Really happen. And they don't understand the idea of emotion, truth. And, and that exaggeration doesn't negate.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.

[Gary Gulman]

And it's just.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, let me ask. This is what I was gonna ask you.

[Gary Gulman]

Mind blowing. But, But I, I just remember thinking that I do not have to have these people at my show. And if they want to come, this was the thing in that little allowance I made. I said, if they really want to come, to come. They'll get tickets themselves and show up instead of expecting me to arrange it and tell them the, the times. And it's just, and, and so that assures that they won't come.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how I feel when my mom are like, my friend Johnny B. Joanie wants to come.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Like, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

The link is because he's not coming.

[Gary Gulman]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

But my mother, he was being nice to you. He was going, like, I want to see that. You being nice.

[Gary Gulman]

You said something a moment ago where you said, they're doing the best they can. And here's my question. Are they going to therapy once a week? Week? Are they inviting you to be in their therapy? Are they reading books on what it means to be the grandparent or an adult and things. Are they really doing their. Doing their best And. And what's the reality, Peter?

[Pete Holmes]

Here's, here's my. Could be just defensive response, meaning I had to build this. Maybe it's not real. Maybe I should just say, you're right. I always say if I was. Was my dad, my mom, anybody, if I was them, I'd be them. Meaning to you and I, it's an option to go. I could go to therapy if I were them. If I had their past, if I had their biology, their physiology, every. Every experience they've ever had. Every guy at the paddock smoking a cigarette going, you go to therapy, Jay, you might as well chop off your balls, kid. That isn't in, like, the key years. The brain is being formed, and that got kneaded into the dough. If I was him, I'd be him. If I was her, I'd be her. And there is a surrender to that. And, you know, Rainn Wilson did the same thing. He was like, are they really doing the best they can? You know why I know it's the best they're doing? It's what they're doing. The end. It's reality. We can argue with it, but we'll only be wrong every single time. Byron, we go out of our way.

[Gary Gulman]

To improve ourselves in so many different ways. And for instance, if you're a doctor, you have to keep up with the information. Yeah, right. And you, you sometimes have to be recertified and all these things. And if your father was a doctor and was practicing, he would keep doing that. And yet he was a parent, and he's not doing any of the things to become a better parent. And. And everybody in my life would say they did their best. And it included not trying to get better at any aspect of what I expected from them.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear that. But as someone who's experienced depression and anxiety. Yeah, we only call it depression because we always got to work in the special, the Great Depression on Max.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, it's not streaming on Max.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I say that like that's a hot take. No, it's called Max, One of my hack. Anyway, I just. Look, this is just dabbling in compassion because I love anger. Yeah, Love it.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I know what it's like to just not be able to, for example, on a certain day exercise, even though I know, right. It'll extend my life and help my mood and turn it around. And some days I just go eat shit. I go in and I ask the boardroom of my psyche, hi, I'm higher functioning Pete. I'm the high, I'm the CEO here. They all laugh, they all laugh that I think I'm the CEO. And I go, I'd like to exercise today because I think we're getting in a rut.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they all vote and I'm out voting. I can't do it. It's just a colorful way.

[Gary Gulman]

And you do this seven days a.

[Pete Holmes]

Week or try to exercise.

[Gary Gulman]

No, have this, have this vote that you voted down seven days a week. What I'm saying is that your parents are voting it down seven days a week, 365 days a year, and however many years, and here's the thing that I finally got into after all these years is close to just accepting that, but also realizing that, well, if they're not going to put any effort, I'm not going home as much as I used to. And if they invite me out on these things and to these things and I've done it with friends and I've done it with family, I don't have time for this because there are people who, I go over to Pete Holmes's house and if I were to tell Pete Holmes that he made me really uncomfortable last time because he didn't, because he short shrifted or dismiss this, Pete Holmes would feel bad about it, not become defensive, not put it on me, not give me an example of how I did something similar to him. He would feel kind of bad. And so I don't have to, I don't have to dismiss them entirely and not have a place for them in my heart, but I don't have a lot of time for them anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear that, man. Man, I hear that. I understand.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I had a joke.

[Gary Gulman]

I was, I'm on the back nine of life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I, Bill Burr at the Comedy Store the other night was like, if you're having fake arguments with people in your mind, just get that person away. And I was like, you know, I bristled against that. I was like, I don't know if I can do that.

[Gary Gulman]

Dan Soder calls them shower arguments or thanks or shower shower fights. We're in the shower.

[Pete Holmes]

But you just mentioned something truly powerful, which is I've been doing it on stage. And I just decided I'm not gonna do it on stage. It's. It's just not. The funny to, like, real ratio is a little bit off. But I was like, every time. This is just true. In my family, it's just a thing. An extended family. It's like a Boston thing. If I look for an apology, it almost always ends.

[Gary Gulman]

It.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it always ends. Ends with me apologizing for having my feelings hurt.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, wow. So why would you abandon something that's that real? And you think keep it and. Yeah. Because eventually you're going to make it funny. Right. As. As I come up on 30 years of comedy, there are things from 30 years ago in my notebook that I stuck with because they were original and also said something about me and my should not. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I did it in Largo and I saw people nodding and I was like, you know what? I'll take nods.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because those people probably felt less alone.

[Gary Gulman]

Eventually you're going to get laughs and you're gonna find something, and maybe it'll just be a sentence amongst a bigger thing, but you get that sentence and that. And that will, that will resonate, man. Because that happens to me, me all the time. Where I stood up for myself on that instance when my mother said I looked evil.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And the next thing I know, I'm looking over at her and she's. She's whimpering because she feels attacked. And that's what Sade. She said. She didn't hear anything.

[Pete Holmes]

She.

[Gary Gulman]

You said all she heard was criticism, Criticism, criticism, criticism, criticism, criticism.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Gary Gulman]

And. And it was. And so I, I, I lost.

[Pete Holmes]

That's an interesting thing. Again, Val's strategy is. So when I said in this dust up with my dad, I apologized to him. And then I said, would you apologize to me? Because my feelings were hurt. And he wouldn't. But he was like, I was joking. And I really believe he believes that. And then he goes, but then he did say, I'm your father, Peter. I would never want to hurt you. So then I tell Val that story and she goes, I think that is the apology you're waiting for.

[Gary Gulman]

My mother's version.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry, but. But this is actually, I'm trying to defend my dad and saying he did sort of say it. They'll just. So I did something called the work. I go, for me to be safe, this is Byron, Katie. I go, for me, this is the belief that I caught myself feeling. For me to be safe, I need my father or my mother to understand and see me In a way that I understand being understood and seen. Like, is that true? It's absolutely not true. I'm waiting for.

[Gary Gulman]

For.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm waiting for someone like you to come in and be like, wow, of course, yes. I'm sorry. Are you crazy? I didn't know you felt that way. I'm humiliated. Like, that's not happening.

[Gary Gulman]

Right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

But you have to sometimes. Val goes, wait, run the tape back. And we rewind it and goes. He said, I'm your father. I would never want to hurt you. I would prefer I'm your father. I'm sorry. I did hurt you.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But he's saying, my intention wasn't to hurt you. That's as close as we got. And we go, you know what? Bingo.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Question mark.

[Gary Gulman]

Bingo, question mark.

[Pete Holmes]

This is how you play family Bingo.

[Gary Gulman]

Bingo.

[Pete Holmes]

The car, it's all just, like, satanic symbols.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Bingo. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. My mother's equivalent of what your father said was, what do you think? I wake up in the morning and think, how can I hurt my son?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm telling you, buddy, there is a fog over the entire Northeast.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like chemtrails.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, dude.

[Pete Holmes]

Because everybody's going. It's the same.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And there's nothing in between that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

Either you're waking up in the morning looking at how to hurt Gary, or you're completely innocent and immediately forgivable.

[Pete Holmes]

You're right.

[Gary Gulman]

You should not even bring it up.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Part of the joke.

[Gary Gulman]

I'm not Hitler.

[Pete Holmes]

I've apolog. That's so funny. I've apologized to Leela because she was choking me. She was on my back, and she. She just under. Doesn't understand necks very well. And she's choking me, couldn't breathe, and went, baby, you're choking me. And. And she didn't like that. I no butted her. You know, we're playing, and she's feeling all those things. She's feeling embarrassed. Embarrassed.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

She stopped the fun.

[Gary Gulman]

She.

[Pete Holmes]

She hurt me. Who knows what she's feeling? But she. She, like, kind of cowers. All I said was, baby, you're. You're choking me. And I was like, sweetheart, I'm so sorry. You're good. This is what I say to Leela a thousand times a day. I go, you're good, you're safe, you're loved. I just. Right, that's what we need. Oh, my word. And I say it to Leela so much that the last time I said, gary, you're good, you're safe. You're, like, loved. And I mean that dead serious. And I say to Leela so much, one time I said it, she goes, you say that all the time. Stop saying that. And I was like, I fucking love it. I love it. I want you to be embarrassed that I love you so much that I look at the report card and go, straight A's.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Straight A's.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It reminds me of that moment in. Remember the original Parenthood with Steve Martin. Martin. The film when his son is at the top of Clock Tower gunning down strangers with a rifle. And he says, that's my son. He's such a great shot.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't remember that.

[Gary Gulman]

Is that extraordinary.

[Pete Holmes]

He's such a great shot. Wow.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things that. In a different universe where I got to that idea first, and I'm not sure I would. Oh, would I be pleased with that one.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so. Well, that's God putting the. The pictures on the fridge.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't have to unpack all that. I understand. Unconditional love's a real tricky one. Here's a bit I'm working on. I go, I think God loves you just the way you are. And God loves me just the way I am. Isn't that annoying? Totally. Doesn't that suck? Totally. Of course.

[Gary Gulman]

Because you worked really hard to get this love, and it was gonna come no matter what you did.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I say it was so much more exciting when I thought God was like the Jason Bourne guys in the room with all the computers going like he masturbated again. Deploy. Deploy. That was such a rush to win over the angry dad. God.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And penance and.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And be sweet and help people just so I can get back on his good side. I was like, but that's a. That's a toxic.

[Gary Gulman]

That's my. That's my oldest brother's biggest complaint about my. My dad is that my dad was so impressed with everything we did. He said it didn't give him a realistic view of how the world was going to interpret me. And. And I think now you're miss. You're miss reading it. The world was going to be that way. It was. He was telling you that there was somebody who is always going to see you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

In the best light.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what we're going for.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, I pick Leela up. You're going to say, I pick Leela up from preschool. It's like fucking Shashi. Kids are screaming, wet. Why is this Kid wet. He's head to toe soaked. That's so funny. You know the kid cutting an apple with a knife? Like, what is this?

[Gary Gulman]

How old is she now? Four?

[Pete Holmes]

She's gonna be five in, like, 11 days. So my thing is, she's getting the full buffet. I know some of these kids. They're wild. In your book, you use duds. I love calling some of the kids duds. Of course they're not duds. I'm just joking. But it's not. Some of these kids are.

[Gary Gulman]

No. As a kid, I was very critical of the kids of. Of my age. It was just so cruel. My head, though, but it's in my act.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, I'm out here judging. I judge my daughter's friends. I'm out here judging. Nobody gets a pass. It's just a reflexive thing.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. Did you ever. Did you get to the part where I went to Hebrew school for the first time?

[Pete Holmes]

No. I'm an anti Semite, so I skipped anything.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, no, I get that. But. But I did the same thing the first time I read a prayer for Owen Meaney. Anything to do with Christianity, I was like, that's not for me.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I'm kidding. Wonderful.

[Gary Gulman]

I'm kidding. Overwhelmed by the prayer for own meaning Christianity, because I was like, wow, there is so much more. I knew. I knew Catholic, and I knew Protestant, and there was. There were different sects of Protestantism within that. And then when I got to college, I realized there were like 90 different Southern Baptists. And.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're like distilleries. You know what I mean? Like, whiskey.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

We're a mash whiskey.

[Gary Gulman]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

They're a Southern mash whiskey. Like what?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. And so my mother drives me to my first day of Hebrew school. And the thing about Hebrew school is that it comes right after regular school. So these kids who have been cooped up all day get a brief recess between regular school and Hebrew school. And so they're outside of the synagogue and they're running around and they're behaving like they're kids do during recess and that they're screaming and laughing and jumping and running. And I'm a little bit overwhelmed because I'm like, I don't know any of these kids. And they're all having fun, and they seem to know each other. And my mother looks at them and obviously doesn't remember ever having been in recess as a kid because she was about 50 at the time. And she said, and I'll never forget this. As long as I lived, I Knew as I don't know how often this happened to you growing up, you knew. I'll never forget this. And I didn't know why, but I knew. This is something. She looked at all the little Jewish kids and they were eight or nine. And she said and with disdain in her voice. I didn't have the word disdain, but I knew that she was revolted by these people. And she said, look at the Jews, they're wild.

[Pete Holmes]

You've taken my breath away many times during this chat and it's never.

[Gary Gulman]

I didn't know the word self hating Jew. I didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

But I, I was like, oh, she's put off by just the wow. And also she was telling me, you're not to behave like that. Yeah, you will be. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

That was ugly.

[Pete Holmes]

That's rough, man. Yeah, I always. Yeah, a lot. That brought up a lot.

[Gary Gulman]

But that exact same thing was happening in the various versions of that within every religion.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's true. The. You're not gonna be like. That was such a huge energy for me. In fact, I've said this before. My Jewish friends tended to be a lot more. Not always. I'm just talking about my Jewish friends growing up were closer with their buddy parents.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

And I've told this story before, but I was at a dinner. Me, my brother.

[Gary Gulman]

No, I found that too. And the. And the Jewish parents, other than my own parents were pretty close with their kids.

[Pete Holmes]

Friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a. Just a different style.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And this kid put his dad in a headlock. Lovingly, jokingly. They were playing.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And gave him a noogie. The dad's dying laughing. It's just like a silly funny moment. And my brother and I both remember that my dad just looked at us like he gave us like don't. Don't you dare. Don't you dare face.

[Gary Gulman]

That's amazing.

[Pete Holmes]

And now I've tried to do this as a bit. I haven't tried it yet.

[Gary Gulman]

My father would say I'd never allow it. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And my compassion is. I'm like, they grew up in a time.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, no, I get it.

[Pete Holmes]

But they couldn't. They couldn't.

[Gary Gulman]

Full disclosure. I do a joke about this different time. So full disclosure. But I always ask when people say about. Because my father was from that different time. He was a World War II vet and greatest generation. But he never said anything sexist, racist, homophobic or denigrating any culture. And so I always say this different time. This was before the famous schism between right and wrong when they split over creative differences. Abraham Lincoln. Your father was older than Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln. Because he saw through that. That nonsense. It's just a different. A different time. It doesn't. During each of these different times, there were groups of people, millions of them, doing the opposite thing. The thing that could have gotten them killed. Hiding Jews during the Holocaust, helping black people escape the Southern slave owners. And. And I'm sure there were witches being burned at the stake and there was a counter program protest to that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there probably were people.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. With.

[Pete Holmes]

With pails of water, women accused of witches hiding those. Hiding those sorcerers. I'm very progressive, but I do think they were warlocks.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. You John Proctors.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't get me started on Salem. Salem Town, which is now Danvers. That's a fun one.

[Gary Gulman]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

You gotta. That's a gulman. You gotta have that. Nothing of historical import happened in Salem. It all happened in Dan Danvers.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All of it.

[Gary Gulman]

And what is now Peabody?

[Pete Holmes]

Is it now? Yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

John Proctor, the. The male. This was. Chris Fleming did this great joke that I forget who. I think it was Josh Gondoman. So Chris Fleming says that he and Josh Gonelman, you know Josh. Right. He and Josh Goneman moved out of Boston. And he said. And people say, well, why did you guys leave Boston so quickly? And he said, do you remember how during the. The. The witch hysteria there were for some reason men accused of witchcraft?

[Pete Holmes]

Chris Flaving says us. That's what he said.

[Gary Gulman]

And that's why we left Boston so quickly.

[Pete Holmes]

Giles Corey. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gary Gulman]

And John Proctor, who is. Who is buried in the.

[Pete Holmes]

The.

[Gary Gulman]

An extension of the Route 128 area is John Proctor's grave. And so you can. You can like walk to the Barnes and Noble and just walk by his. His grave.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was accused of being away.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, was anybody that made a contract.

[Gary Gulman]

With the devil or had more than two cats? I heard. No.

[Pete Holmes]

Or was a landowning woman, you know, basically a single landowning woman.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's all. It was the same stuff.

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, let's end on a lighter note, okay. It could be in the book. It doesn't have to be. Can you tell me a time in your life you've had to answer this a couple times that you laughed really, really, really, really, really hard? Maybe to the point of tears. Maybe you're falling over. Maybe somebody farted. Maybe somebody fell. Maybe you're in church or temple or something. Where you're not supposed to laugh. Anything come to mind?

[Gary Gulman]

Oh my gosh. I had this friend named Billy Momian.

[Pete Holmes]

Momian?

[Gary Gulman]

Yeah. He's now known as Will Marmion, but back then he was Billy Momian. Or as my mother still calls him, Billy Mamia. I don't know if no New England parents could ever get their kids friends names right, but they would just whatever was closest to a name they grew up with, with that became the name of the, of the, of the kid. And this is off the dome. Don't think I prepared this, this bit. But it sounds like a bit, right? Sounds like a bit, yeah. Anyhow, Billy Mamion was the funniest kid I knew. And I knew, I knew Gary Goleman and, and I was very close with Gary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I was Gary Goleman at the time. And, and Billy Mamion and I were sitting outside the Warren 5 Cent Savings bank and I put this story in the book, this little tease, I guess. And he said, my mother was in the Warren $0.05 as a savings bank for so long. One thing he said that I thought was just really smart, but also funny. He said they only allow you to deposit $0.05 in there and somebody in there must have a quarter. And so that's what's taking so long because they have to make change for the quarter because you're only allowed to bring in 5 cents to this bank. Bank. And then, okay, so then, so that's a brilliant joke. Then a woman walks by and I just want to. This is the, the beauty of the child mind, right? That it goes from high status to low status and everything in between in terms of comedy. So there's jokes, there's fart jokes, and then there's something as sharp as the 5 cent thing. And he also said that the name of the bank owner was. It was the Warren $0.05 bank. He said the, the bank owner was called Warren, that Warren. They had to call Warren to see if it was okay. I mean this is just a genius comedic mind. He's a lawyer now, which makes sense because he's really sharp, right? So anyhow, he then pivots to this. A woman walks by with just a run of the mill, mangy looking ski hat because it was really cold out. And he rolled down the window and he said, nice hat. Lady, lady, did your dog make it? And I, I immediately pictured a dog knitting with glasses and also a knit cap on the dog because they had knit that before and they're knitting with glasses and it Was a dog. And. And as much as I love the 5 cents, because I love a good sharply worded joke. That dog image. Then I was crying, did your dog make it? He was like. He went from. From. From Steven Wright to insult comic like. Like that. And it may. To this day, I. I mean, oh, my word.

[Pete Holmes]

Your dog make it. Did your dog make.

[Gary Gulman]

Was. It was also a little bit of a far side, right? A Gary Larson type thing where. Where dogs knit. It just. It had everything. It had everything. A dog, a dog being crafted. Crafty ship it. Arts and crafts.

[Pete Holmes]

Ship it. Which we called, going back to your point, farts and craps, because. Wow, no. No respect for the arts.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, that drove me nuts that they thought they were so smart by calling the arts and crafts at camp farts and craps.

[Pete Holmes]

You're also the only person I've been obsessed with. Thank you for coming to our ool. Notice there's no pee in it, because that was like, oh, a joke.

[Gary Gulman]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Gary Gulman]

A really strong joke, this one.

[Pete Holmes]

I had a. I had a bit about this. It is a strong joke. Ever see this one? I don't swim in your toilet, so please don't pee in my pool. You ever see that one? I don't know. In my open mic days, I go, I love that you want to swim in my toilet. You.

[Gary Gulman]

Here's the. Here's the. Under the. The. The unsaid idea that makes the deconstruction of that so good, which is that it's only my decency, ethics, and integrity that keeps me from swimming in your toilet.

[Pete Holmes]

I want.

[Gary Gulman]

A lot of people are swimming in your. Whether you know it or not, there's a lot of people swimming in your toilet.

[Pete Holmes]

But I got.

[Gary Gulman]

I was raised right. I'm not sleeping in your toilet, so return the favor. Yeah, return the favor by not peeing in my pool.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not hitting them.

[Gary Gulman]

They are equipped.

[Pete Holmes]

That is fantastic.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, man, that's so good.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, buddy.

[Gary Gulman]

The book is called Misfit. It's a misfit colon growing up awkward in the 80s.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's an oral history of the misfits. Would you. Gary, your third effortless return episode. Would you say, keep it crispy, kid. And thank you.

[Gary Gulman]

Oh, my, What a joy. I've been looking forward to this for. Since we put it on the. We put it in the challenge.

[Pete Holmes]

I texted you last night because I was like, what if he doesn't want it?

[Gary Gulman]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe you were like, lukewarm on it.

[Gary Gulman]

No, this is espresso. This is reenergizing. Keep it crispy. You all.