Jennette McCurdy Returns

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Jennette McCurdy Returns

Episode Date: December 21, 2022
Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Jennette McCurdy
Main Theme: Processing complicated family dynamics, authenticity, healing, and the aftermath of Jennette’s memoir I’m Glad My Mom Died.

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Overview

In this heartfelt, deeply honest episode, Pete Holmes welcomes back author and former Nickelodeon star Jennette McCurdy, seven years after her first appearance. The conversation centers around family dysfunction, the impact of Jennette’s best-selling memoir I’m Glad My Mom Died, and the challenges of healing, forgiveness, and reclaiming one’s identity. Both Pete and Jennette openly share their own family struggles, dig into spiritual territory, and manage to keep things light and relatable, even as they cover heavy ground.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jennette’s Book, Reception, and the Burden of Promotion

• Opening Vibe (08:04): Pete expresses new appreciation for Jennette post-memoir, feeling a gentle desire to be “kind and sensitive.”
• The ‘Pity’ Problem (09:05): Jennette shares discomfort with being pitied for her story:

  “The only thing that I don't like is, 'Oh God, I just want to hug you.' That makes me feel like then I'm being pitied and I'm like, oh God, that's not... Yeah, I'm good on that.”

• Press Tour Hazards (12:03): Jennette describes the surreal “morning show” circuit, where the brutally honest book title gets read in a glib, bullet-point way, stripping the story of nuance.
• Emotional Distance & “Becoming Bullet Points” (17:02): Talking endlessly about trauma for press has numbed her connection to her story:

  “In the repetition it becomes stale or too distant. I feel there's something of a lack of connection just by nature of—I like cried a couple times in press. I felt some shame about that. So then I felt like I had more of a guard...”

Timestamps:

• Pity and reactions – 08:55-09:43
• Press promotion weirdness – 12:31-17:32

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2. Family Dynamics, Holiday Guilt, and Childhood Roles

• Responsibility for Parents’ Happiness (25:39): Both discuss growing up feeling responsible for keeping parents happy and the guilt-ridden negotiations of adult holidays.
• Authenticity vs. Performance (34:23): Pete admits he becomes a “rodeo clown” around family, faking accents and performing to smooth things over rather than being real:

  "I’ve been speaking in a fake Boston accent... and no one in my family has noticed."

• Pretending Things “Work” (28:05): Pete and Jennette both reflect on families pretending closeness, even when nobody truly enjoys the time together.

  Jennette: "Why can't it just be said that we don't really want to do this?... There's just a disconnect."

• Yearning and Mourning Lost Possibilities (29:51): Pete shares the heartbreak of realizing parent–child closeness may never materialize, invoking the image of “hopeful but knowing it’ll never happen.”

Timestamps:

• Family responsibility and guilt – 25:39-27:59
• Pretending and performance – 28:04-36:36
• Mourning family fantasies – 29:51-30:36

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3. Handling Growth, Regression, and Boundaries

• Reverting Around Family (48:49): Jennette and Pete both notice that, despite all their personal growth, they instantly fall into old “child” roles around parents:

  Jennette: "Why is it so difficult to maintain the growth ... around family? I immediately revert. My voice feels different coming out of my body."

• Growing Apart from Family of Origin (54:19): Jennette describes creating healthy distance from family, and the strange tension when both parties sense it but don’t address it—sometimes out of fear of closeness.
• Tolerated vs. Celebrated (55:55): Referencing a Kim Cattrall quote, Jennette notes the importance of seeking relationships where you're celebrated, not just tolerated.

Timestamps:

• Regression and roles – 48:49-50:01
• Family distance and boundaries – 54:19-56:09

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4. Addiction: Food, Ritual, and Feeling Alive

• Addict Brain & Sensory Experience (64:33): Both discuss how being “addict-y” can manifest in craving intense sensory experiences—Sour Patch Kids, wasabi, etc.
• Rituals and Magical Thinking (86:12): Jennette describes post-memoir rituals/trappings—saving shampoo bottles from the launch week etc.—to try to control fate:

  "I... was holding on to shampoo because I used it when [the book] debuted at number one... there was a part of me that was almost relieved when it dropped, because then I don't have to keep doing those rituals…"

Timestamps:

• Sensory cravings and addiction – 64:11-65:59
• Compulsive rituals for control – 86:12-87:28

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5. Spirituality, Guilt, and Forgiveness

• Spiritual Language & Reclaiming “God” (67:04): Both discuss struggles with the word “God” after religious upbringings, and ultimately find empowerment in reclaiming it.
• Guilt vs. Remorse (70:55): Pete distinguishes helpful remorse from unproductive guilt/shame, tying in spiritual growth as letting go of the "twisty chocolate-vanilla ice cream cone" of shame and guilt.
• Mercy vs. Forgiveness (73:32):

  Pete (quoting Greg Boyle): “Mercy is just—it's always there, it doesn't think about it… It's completely irrational, completely illogical, and does not perpetuate or affirm your existence, which makes it so scary.”

• Letting Go of Forgiveness as a Goal (111:35): Jennette shares a transformative moment from therapy:

  “What if forgiveness isn't the goal?... That was, I mean, transformative... I felt what people mean when they say the burden is lifted.”
  (This is highlighted as especially helpful for those stuck in anger at their parents.)

Timestamps:

• Spiritual terminology and reclaiming – 67:04-68:35
• Guilt, shame, remorse discussion – 70:55-72:57
• Forgiveness/mercy – 73:32-75:26, 111:35-112:06

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6. Processing Loss and Moving Toward Closure

• On Her Mother’s Death & Grief’s Complexity (102:01-108:41):
  Jennette explains that her mother’s death did not bring instant closure; in fact, it set her on a winding path through anger, blame, and eventually self-forgiveness:

  “It was not by any means—she died, and then I'm relieved and can finally be myself… I was really deep in eating disorders and alcohol issues at that time... It was really years of anger before starting to feel what was underneath... just so much pain and disappointment. Now, I am able to just miss her.”

• Notable Quote:

  “Anger is pain in disguise.” – Pete Holmes (106:00) “Forgiveness is giving up hope for a better past.” – (Lily Tomlin via Pete, 110:18)

• Letting Go of Family Fantasies: Over time—and with help from therapy—Jennette has learned not to chase the illusion of a “perfect” or “healed” relationship with her mom or brothers, but rather to allow her feelings as they are.

Timestamps:

• Complicated grief—mother’s death – 102:01–110:13

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7. Lighthearted Closings: Food, Napping, and Laughter

• Best Candy & Breakfast Cereal:
  • Jennette: Sour Patch Kids, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Reese’s Puffs (63:41, 115:11)
  • Discussion of “addict” cereals gets lots of laughs.
• Sleeping & Airplane Naps:
  • Jennette describes finally learning to enjoy sleep and napping hard enough to drool, especially on planes (122:37).
• Laughing Together:
  The episode closes with a relaxed sense of mutual affection and gratitude for the depth and fun of the conversation.

Timestamps:

• Favorite candy/cereal – 63:41-65:59, 115:11-118:14
• Airplane naps – 122:37

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Press & Pity:

  “It's sort of like improv—yes-anding your victimhood.”
  (Pete Holmes, 09:05)

• On Family Guilt:

  “You end up with a stable relationship... and there's a part of me that's just like, I just want to fuck everything up… just get that impulse.”
  (Jennette McCurdy, 94:40)

• On Self-Forgiveness:

  "I feared what was on the other side of self-forgiveness. But I really did feel … because you vanish. It's the opposite of wasabi pea."
  (Jennette McCurdy & Pete, 73:21)

• On Sacred Boredom:

  Pete and Jennette both acknowledge how their “addict” brains sometimes crave chaos or intensity, making peace/happiness feel almost threatening.

• On Closure:

  “If I'm not... carrying that chip on my shoulder, what does that even mean for who I am? ... Now, I am able to just miss her.”
  (Jennette McCurdy, 108:41)

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Episode Structure / Timestamps at a Glance

| Time | Key Segment | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:04 | Opening - New Appreciation, Book Reception, Pity Problem | | 12:03 | Press Tour Stories & Strangeness | | 17:00 | Emotional Numbing, “Bullet Point-ing” Life | | 25:39 | Family Holiday Guilt, Performative Roles | | 48:49 | Regression, Voice Changing Around Family | | 54:19 | Growing Apart from Family in Adulthood | | 64:33 | Addictive Sensory Preferences, Wasabi Peas, Sour Candy | | 86:12 | Magical Thinking, Rituals with Objects | | 67:04 | Reclaiming Spiritual Language, Remorse vs. Shame | | 73:32 | The Power (and Discomfort) of Mercy, Spiritual Bypassing | | 102:01 | Processing Death of Her Mother, Grief, and Moving Toward Forgiveness| | 108:41 | Closure, Letting Go, Pure Missing | | 115:11 | Food, Cereal, Lighthearted Wrap-up | | 122:37 | Airplane Naps, Sleep Revelations |

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in vulnerability and self-inquiry, interspersed with real humor and warmth. Pete and Jennette scrutinize difficult family patterns, performative coping, the paradoxes of healing, and the challenge of spiritual and psychological integration. Grounded in both their personal experiences and philosophical conversation, listeners who have navigated complicated family relationships or the struggle toward self-acceptance will find themselves seen and supported.

Jennette’s closing words capture the spirit of the conversation:

“I'm just so happy to be doing this with you. ... I really appreciated how we talked about it—I felt really engaged and I didn't revert to a sound bite.”

(124:17–124:27)

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Suggested Listening For:

• Anyone processing family trauma, parental relationships, and how to heal
• Listeners who enjoy raw, honest, but ultimately hopeful conversations
• Fans of both Pete Holmes’s playful/spiritual style and Jennette McCurdy’s unflinching memoir

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Book Plug:
I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy (Audiobook and print) – Highly recommended for its humor, candor, and compassion.

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Sign-off:
"Keep it crispy." (Jennette, 125:03)

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Transcript

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird. Oh, yeah. You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is the Return. The Return episode. It was like seven years ago that Jennette McCurdy, the incredible Jeanette McCurdy, did this podcast. But Katie made me aware of her new book, which is called I'm Glad My Mom Died. And obviously I was like, what? I gotta read this. Checked it out, actually. I listened to the audiobook. It's unbelievable. It's incredible. She's so talented. She's so wonderful. I was like, we have to have her back on the podcast. So definitely check out. I'm glad my mom died. As an audiobook is how I did it. Katie read the book. Book. Either way, same words. But her performance is really, really great. She's so talented. So this is an incredible chat. Obviously we joked in this episode that it's like perfect for the holidays because there's a lot of talk about how family dynamics can be in relationships like that and how to mend them and how to heal them. And anyway, it's really wonderful chat. One of my favorites in a long time. So let's get to it as quickly as possible. This episode will be on YouTube, but because of some technical difficulties, the video didn't work out. We're just releasing it as audio on YouTube and also as an audio podcast. So that's. I don't know, I just wanted. I didn't want you to be confused. But you can still watch it on YouTube if that's. If that's how you fuck with podcasts. If you'd like to see me live doing stand up comedy, come go, come go to peteholmes.com some new dates are also about to be added, but right now you can go for tickets to San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Washington D.C. and I'd also like to point out that it being the holiday season, it's a wonderful time to treat yourself or someone you love to a Pete's pick. Like, I'm holding it right here. Magic Mind. It's always here on my desk. You hear me offer it to the guests. Because I loved Magic Mind. First I reached out to them. My dear friend James Bashar. It's how we became friends. Is the developer of Magic Mind. I loved it. Then I reached out and was like, you guys gotta sponsor the podcast. Get a promo code to the weirdos. So the love was first. That's super important because this is the product that has changed my life the most in recent years. I absolutely, absolutely swear by it. And if you've tried it recently or never tried it, I'd like to point out they just put out a new version. It's version 4.0, which tastes even better. It's less shaking required, meaning the matcha that's in this drink, you don't have to shake it as much, it gets mixed up easier and it gets into your system faster, meaning you feel the effects faster. So I already loved it, but they're always working on it, tweaking it, improving it on version 4.0 and is now available. And I absolutely love it. You maybe heard me on we made it weird. I drank one and talked about the new taste, but that was the first time and now I'm hooked on version 4.0. If you don't know what it is, it's a magical elixir that makes you focus better on your work, be more creative and drink less coffee. In fact, you drink it with your coffee because it has adaptogens in it and adaptogens round the edges of stress. Sometimes coffee can make you a little stressed. This rounds out that experience and and makes it just pure, clean, creative energy. It's a mix of 12 functional ingredients, including as I mentioned, matcha, nootropics that help you focus and adaptogens, as I mentioned, help you fight off stress. Everybody has, you know, athletes, everybody, athletes have Gatorade. We jokingly call this creator aid. It's creator aid. You take it with your coffee or on its own, which is often what I do. For a sharper mind, steady energy, immune support and less stress, you get 30, 30% more done. On average, five to seven hours of 30% more productivity after drinking. It doesn't get you wired. This is the biggest point. It doesn't get you wired or jittery. It gets you dialed in, which makes it your creator's best friend. You try it 15 minutes before you're doing something and you just have so much more ease. Getting into that flow state. Getting into that dialed in state fights off some ADD symptoms, procrastination, brain fog and fatigue. I absolutely love it. I swear by it. Give it a try. Perfect way to support the show. If you like the show, go to www.magicmind.co. who has time for that? M Co weird and use discount code weird at checkout to get 20% off. It's a limited time. 20% off your first order. Magic Mind co weird. Weird at checkout. It's also brought to us by our friends, which I'm also wearing. This is my Apollo Neuro. I was just leaving for LA the other day and realized I wasn't wearing my Apollo. It was charging and I turned around, I was like 10 minutes away from my house. I turned around, came back to the house just to get my Apollo. It is a wearable piece of technology. A lot of people think it's a watch or something like a whoop. It is not. It is way better than either of those things because it sends gentle vibrations directly into your nervous system. Basically speaking to your nervous system in the language of touch, which is the language that that it can understand. It's basically a wearable hug. It's like a robo hug. They could have called it robo hug, like robot hug. Who has time for that tea? I have a lot of who has that time jokes in this intro. But it gives your nervous system the signal that it is okay and that it is supported. It's like a weighted blanket that you wear all the time, helping you feel safe and in control. I wear it on my wrist. I Val wears hers on her ankle. It delivers those gentle, almost sub perceptual meaning. You don't notice it, but you notice the effects of these vibrations that train your nervous system to recover and rebalance after stress. And in my experience, help you while you're feeling that stress. Also like one of the settings is called Sleep and Renew. As I'm older now, I get up more in the night to go pee pee and when I get back in bed sometimes it's hard to fall back asleep. I just hit these two buttons on the Apollo. It runs that program again. Sleep and Renew. And literally lulls me gently back to sleep by basically like establishing a pattern and then slowing that pattern down and then you're off. They have the opposite of that, which is energy and wake up. Social and open is also a more upbeat sensation. Helps you get into those group modes, into that creative mode. Clear and focus has been shown to help fight off symptoms of add. Rebuild and recover is what I put it on after stressful things like flights or difficult phone calls or meetings. Relax and unwind. We call it the try to stay awake setting. That's what I have it on at night when I'm watching TV or reading, getting ready for bed. And as I mentioned, Sleep and Renew. Apollo Neuro works better the more you use it. It's not woo woo. As I always point out. This isn't like a crystal. It was developed by a neuroscientist And a board certified psychiatrist who have been studying the impacts of chronic stress for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. So don't just take it from me. This is the. The cutting edge of wearable technology and it's absolutely changed my life. I've given it away. More Apollos. It's an incredible Christmas holiday gift that if you don't know what to get somebody, the answer is the Apollo. So get 10% off and show your support of the show. Go to ApolloNeuro.com weird that's a P O L L O N e u r o.com weird r for 10% and show your support of the podcast. All right, everybody, enjoy this incredible chat with Jeanette McCurdy and I really, really hope you're having a great holiday season. We'll be taking next week off, but we will see you on Friday for we made it weird. And then we'll be back in the new year. All right? Get into it. Look at you. That's the way to do it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm wearing. I'm so embarrassed. I'm wearing my, like, monster socks because the shoes are too big. What?

[Pete Holmes]

Why are you embarrassed? I mean, I actually think this is the highest compliment. Leela, who's my four year old, would love everything you're wearing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, I love that.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's great.

[Pete Holmes]

Why not? Why not? Well, we're, as you know, the show just starts. As long as it's okay with your sock material being.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know why I feel like I've been reading your book. So maybe you're getting this, like, I feel like this, like, sensitivity. Like, I want to be really gentle and kind to you. Like, even Katie was like, she said, I loved your book. I read it in two days.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thanks, Katie.

[Pete Holmes]

It's such a weird thing to be like. And we loved it. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, when I saw you, I had like, this new. Obviously you did the podcast before years ago, but now there's this new appreciation. I hope that's not, like, rubbing you the wrong way. Are you getting that from people?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I appreciate it. The only thing that I don't really like is, oh, God, I just want to hug you. Yeah, that makes me feel like then I'm being pitied and I'm like, oh, God, that's not. Yeah, I'm. I'm good on that.

[Pete Holmes]

Pity is an interesting thing. Right? I Mean, it's sort of like improv. Yes. Anding your victimhood. Is that what it feels like?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. And it feel. And to me, it feels like that's not. I would have never sort of done written about my life if I just wanted pity. Like, I thought that there was something entertaining about. I thought there was something. I thought that I could write a good story and I. It feels sort of like, to me, it feels like it's being kind of undermined if it's just like, oh, the pity.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's also loaded, isn't it? Jump right in.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, no, no, no. Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you have any coffee this morning? Just be silly. Yeah. There's a water right there.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

This is so fancy.

[Pete Holmes]

That's. We were just talking about it. This is our new water. It's Nirvana water and it's made by a doctor who was treating patients and they were having a hard time holding onto their muscle. Like, you know how people that are sick. Obviously I was like, this will be interesting to mention to Jeanette, but it decreases muscle loss, reduces muscle recovery time, and strengthens muscles and bones and doesn't taste bad. It's got orange in it, right?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is good.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad. Yeah. It's called Nirvana. There are new water.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm so surprised.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm glad you enjoy. It's our first. Literally our first step out. So anyway, yeah, that's my point is I'd like to start with, like, more casual water banter and all the things.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That it's not to. It's good. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, then let me jump right in because it has to be loaded that your mom used so much of her diagnosis to get specialness.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So if you wrote a book, it would be like, oh, no, she learned nothing. You know what I mean?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. We would all understand and would just kind of say it behind your back. It'd be like, well, the apple doesn't fall far. You know what I mean? Like, what a nightmare. But it's clearly not what you're doing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's my worst.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, of course it is. Of course. I'm so glad you left because I'm like, no one thinks that, but, like.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But now that you've said it, people.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, we're dispelling because it's so clearly not written. Look, I look back on my book and there's certain things that I wrote about my parents that were just a little bit.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

When was your book?

[Pete Holmes]

It came out right when Lila was born, so about three years ago.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God, I can't wait to read it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll give you one. There's one on the shelf. It's. But, like, there are parts I wrote about my parents. I do not regret it. But I can tell that I'm going, like, pretty fucking sad. Right? You know what I mean? Like, I'm trying to get the base coat. And when I read yours, you have this license, like. Like James Bond. You have a license to, like, go for tears and stuff.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You're not doing that like James Bond.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but it's not blood that drips down. It's tears. It's translucent. You can't really tell. It just looks like goo, but it's tears. I just want. I want you to know no one. No one feels that way.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm so glad. I'm so glad to hear that.

[Pete Holmes]

Why. So tell me a little bit more about why the catharsis.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I mean, do I need to hold this close? Also, Is this okay? Kind of. Here? Okay, great.

[Pete Holmes]

In fact, let me start with. Is it hard to promote. This is the first thing I wanted to say. Is it hard to promote a book? Because you go on the morning radio, you go on lots of things. Dumb things, stupid things. They're like, tell Jeanette. But, Curtie, you're glad your mom died. Tell me, Jeanette, why are you glad? Oh, that your mom. Am I reading this right? It's like Chico and the Boy. Am I reading this right? That your mom died? Like, right. The title's great. I mean, I love it because I respond to that sort of honesty. But you must be getting that, like, crazy.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, it's definitely been so. I was feeling. I was.

[Pete Holmes]

The boy, isn't he. Coming up next after the break, Jennette McCurdy's glad her mom died. I wonder how she died. If my mom died, I wouldn't be so glad. Let me tell you that right now. I love my mom. In fact, we're gonna call her after the break and we'll let Jeanette talk to my mom, who is alive. Okay. We'll be right. I'm just. Can I tell you, I've been on radio shows where they call someone from Orange is the New Black. And they're literally like, you guys get naked a lot in that show. And the woman hung up on them. I forget which actress they were.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I love that. But I was like, I respect that.

[Pete Holmes]

Get the fuck off this. That's what he. That was. His first question was like, you gotta take your tatas out. And I was like, click. And they were like, I think we lost her. Yeah, you fuck. You fucking lost her, you idiot. So tell me, is that your experience?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm crying. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, we need to laugh. It's heavy stuff. It's heavy stuff.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Honestly, before, like, I wasn't even sure. Like, doing press for something like this felt weird. Like, I didn't. I felt like, fuck, I shouldn't. I don't know if I should do that. And I just had a lot of doubt and. But ultimately my manager sort of convinced me to do it. And I trust him a lot. And he felt like, you know, this is just gonna. It's just gonna help so much and like, you need to do this.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I echo that?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, when Katie. This is all Katie, by the way. I'd have you on anytime. Anytime. You're welcome on the show anytime.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

But she was like, I don't know if, you know, Jeanette wrote a book and we love talking about parent issues. And I slow gas leaked it. Like, I didn't wanna, like, fully come out. Like, about, you know, you feel weird.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Family secret.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then like, that is the. Maybe tied for first number one thing other than like spiritual trauma. But that's tied into your story. But people are like, you share helps you and it helps them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's like.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a miracle. It helps everybody.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm truly glad you did.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

So keep going.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thank you. No, thanks. I appreciate it.

[Pete Holmes]

My gratitude.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And then. Yeah, so. So I started doing press and I did have a lot of the other sort of radio voice, which is just such a weird layer, especially considering the things I'm talking about. And like growing up in Hollywood and all of that. It's like the irony of it and the humor was. It was like, funny to me. I remember did. I probably shouldn't say this, but Good morning America. And it was like, you have 15 seconds. Yeah. And they. And they. They like, load. I'm like being loaded into the set while they're already recording another segment.

[Pete Holmes]

It's always noon.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's always hard noon. It's like a wild west noon. Like no clouds. Good morning America. And I'm sorry to keep interrupting with rips. We're going to get back to it. But is there anything more like a bad psychedelic trip than good morning? Like, not just Good morning America, but morning shows in general. There's something really unnatural.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

About smiling when you're not happy.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

So glossy and shiny and polished.

[Pete Holmes]

Her coming. And it was nice to see the host realize the Title of your book is so sad because they're like. Coming up next on Good Morning America, Jeanette Jennette McCurdy is here to talk.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

About how her mom slowly, mildly, I'm glad my mom died. And like, just trails off as they're reading the prompter. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. KFC is out with a new flavor that might be a little too Spicy. And Jeanette McCurdy from iCarly is glad that her. Her mom died. That after message from the wacky weather. Jesus Christ. Off camera. I need to be warned.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm sure that happened more than a few times, right. The woman who was like, announcing or present or introducing the segment, she was going on and on about my terrible life while I'm being kind of loaded in and trying to be quiet. And they're like, pipe down. Cause I was wearing loud boots and they're trying to get me to be more quiet. And she's like, her terrible, brutal, awful, horrendous, hitty. Just a string of adjectives going on and on about how kind of brutal my life was. And I sit down opposite George Stepped, who we found out, like, the day before he was gonna be doing the interview instead of, you know, it wasn't like the light segment they thought it was gonna be. It was like a serious sit down. And the whole thing just felt like, God, this is. This is bizarre. This is. This is sort of. Yeah. Like, it's just. It's. It's just a weird, like, meta version of the thing that I'm talking about.

[Pete Holmes]

In the book, you've been reduced to bullet points.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

And when you erased it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's very dehumanizing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not saying Good morning America, please have me back, Hoda. You know what I mean? Like, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. I love always noon. I love a bad psychedelic trip. It's so fun. But I'm just saying, when you are just not the same. But on crashing, they would be like, he was raised religious, and then his wife left him here to talk about it. And I'd be like, thanks so much.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. They just sort of inherently lack nuance, which I get is part of it. But the idea of, like, okay, I'm sort of participating in this thing, which. How much does that suggest that I'm endorsing this thing while also I know that I have to do this thing for the thing to do. Well, it's like, it was really kind of. I did a lot of things, therapy, specifically around press and like, how to navigate that. And then I actually noticed last night I was feeling some. I was so excited to see you guys, you both. But I was feeling some dread and I was like, what is this dread about? Why am I feeling this like. And I think it's just from talking about it so much and that I've become somewhat desensitized to it, I think. And I think that then makes it just less. I think it makes it less interesting to hear and I think it makes it less impactful to even talk about. Like, I felt. I feel like there's something of a lack of connection just by nature of. I like cried a couple times in press. I felt some shame about that. So then I felt like I had more of a guard when I would talk about it and kind of be more the presentational version of myself in order to get through talking about a thing without choking up. Because I'm like, fuck. I know how they're gonna edit it and they're gonna make it seem like.

[Pete Holmes]

Like I'm like grainy black and white. Like. Like an off angle camera you didn't know they were shooting on. Jeanette McCurdy breaks down yes, yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And then the thumbnail on YouTube, like I knew that was how things were gonna be sort of. Yeah. Just they and I. And I get that they're doing that because they have to because they want the views, but yeah, we can all.

[Pete Holmes]

Puke in our mouths for what you just said. You know what I mean? I'm not even trying to be funny. It reminds me of how one of the things that really haunted me is how kids learn to justify their parents behavior. So anything. And I think it's probably why you have this aversion to it. Anything that sounds like, yeah, but you know, they're just being a good show. You know what I mean? Chilling. And as a father now, I was like, oh my God. Like, don't forget. I don't. If there's anything I can say about Val and I's parenting styles, we don't forget that Leela's watching and paying attention as best we can.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

She's 4.

[Pete Holmes]

She's 4. Yeah, I know. Two years older than you when you said you were 2 and singing. But here, let's keep on what you're saying.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

This is gonna sound. I've had good experiences, profound experiences that get turned into a story.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And Louis C.K. i know, but he has this thing about stand up where he's like, there's dictating, like reading a script and then there's communicating and it's different sides of the brain. And when I heard him say that, that really changed how I do stand up. I try to perform from a communicating place.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think what's happening and you tell me is you had this wet stone of something to share and you walked it back to the beach blanket and it dried up because you have to talk about it so much.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I don't understand. Walk me through the wet stone.

[Pete Holmes]

Here we go. We're gonna stay with it. Okay, great. I'm just saying in talk. Talking about it so much, it becomes words instead of. And it's a self preservational thing somehow. That's the wet, dry stone. No one, no one called that into. You either got it or you didn't, man. But like, I, I've had beautiful experiences that when people ask me about them and bad experiences.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You hate that. You go like, well, this is the time I saw a dead body. And, and, and it becomes. You turn yourself into bullet points.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

But isn't there like. And you tell. This is a leading question, but when you write about it, there's almost the good version of that because you're putting it on paper and you're making it words. There's like a healthy distance.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But then in the repetition it becomes stale or too distant.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. I'm already self conscious of how pretentious this is. But also like the.

[Pete Holmes]

Can't wait. Can I just say can't wait.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's like it was my genuine thought and I was like, fuck this.

[Pete Holmes]

Whatever, whatever it is gonna. Yes. And the pretentiousness so hard.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Like the writing of a thing. You know, if it's a personal experience, feels like there's some crafting involved. Like there's some, there's commitment to it. There's the time and energy and effort it takes to like really consider what's entertaining and what's not. But then just talking about the thing that you've made then that to me just feels really. Just kind of. It's starting to feel a little vapid.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. What's twice removed?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It happened. Then you wrote about it. Then you talk. Talked about what you wrote about.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. And the writing about it felt pure. Like, I really mean that. Like, it really felt pure to me. It really felt, it felt. I felt compelled to write about it. I felt really connected to it. And now I'm just like, okay, I, I. There's nothing. What? There's nothing else to say. There's no other Like, I'm not gonna say something in a better way than I wrote it for. Then I spent writing it for a year and a half, and then now if I say something, it just. Like, I'm rehashing and I'm. Yeah, it just feels tired.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, every author that comes on, it sucks that you're like, so someone wrote the book, Committed. And we're like, what's it mean to commit? And you're like, I wrote the book. The book is the answer.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Now you have to go around. I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, I'd love to find a way to talk about it, but we don't have to directly talk about it. Like, I really don't want to be like, so why are you glad? You know what I mean?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

If I. So I'll steer it, and we can talk about whatever you want.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm really excited to talk with you about spiritual. The spiritual elements and all that, because I know there's exciting or I assume. I think there's a connection there.

[Pete Holmes]

There is. Well, God, I. Again, I'm being very sensitive. I keep wanting to say white glove, but that's not right. It's like setting still like Downton Abbey. I'm not treating you like a giant dining table. Kid gloves, maybe.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

What were we gonna say?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

The sensitivity. Yeah, I feel. I feel. I feel. Right. What's the worst that could happen? What if I just started crying? Like, whatever. Who cares, right? I mean, it'd be fun.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, then we'd work through it. Yeah, you're right. And by the way.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Facts. This is your episode. Well, we'd edit out anything.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Well. And I. I genuinely do. I feel. I feel safe here. And I feel like we're gonna have a. I hate that you know that word, whatever. But I do feel like it's what's safe. Yeah. At this point, it's lost its meaning. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually. Maybe. I've had a lot of therapists reach out, and they're like. We've noticed that you say you're in a safe space, and they're like, we think that's really good. And I'm not doing it to manipulate.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I benefit when people just say, like. Just, like, call it out. You're safe. It's okay. Like, this isn't a gotcha podcast.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's all true. You could make this 20 minutes if you want at the end of the day. But what I was worried that I'm doing is people projecting on or. Or over. Sharing. Making it about them. Making your story about them. But in the interest of talking about.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It, I like that. I like it. To me, if that feels. Makes it feel more conversational. It makes it feel less, you know, kind of pointed and like. Well, so here's my question for you. You know what I'm saying?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what I hope it feels like.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When I was reading it. Well, I'm listening to it, and you did a great job, and the writing is fantastic. And here's a very surface compliment. Love short chapters. When you feel like you're ripping through a book.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And it never gets caught in the mud. There's no fat on the screen.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no, like, all right, move on. You're just like, I can't believe you ended there. Like, it's not even my life. I would have been like. I would have written so much more. Not in a good way. You end it wanting more, and then you have to read the next chapter.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. I have such a short attention span when I read that. I really wanted it to be sort of feeling digestible and. And just. Yeah. Readable. I wanted it to not feel too long. Like, I'll get so distracted in the middle of a chapter. If a chapter is, like 10 pages, I'll think, okay, I'll. I'll get to the end of it, and then I'll kind of go do something else. And then I'll wind up just getting. Just feel like, oh, it's too much to read these 10 pages. And then I'll go get distracted and watch something or, you know, do the dishes, and then forget about it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's actually, it's. And it's kind of. People sometimes say I use the word graceful wrong. I mean, full of grace, meaning understanding of the reader. Meaning I'm telling you something difficult.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What is graceful? What is the wrong gr.

[Pete Holmes]

I think when people say graceful, they mean, like, elegant.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, composed. I mean, full of grace. Compassionate might be a better word that. It's like, let's not. Let's not go nuts. Let's do a little. Little segments.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you can take a break whenever you want. I know there's a lot. Little Skittles.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so let's talk about this, and then we'll talk about what our favorite candy is. So we'll do, like, little palate cleansers. Great.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm excited.

[Pete Holmes]

Spoiler mine's. Skittles. I'm just kidding. It's not, it's not, it's not. I really related hard. And I know this is general to feel the feeling of a child being responsible for the happiness of a parent. And I know that's pretty on the nose if you've read the book.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But like, I don't know, there's something about realizing and being told my mom, you know, we're doing pretty good. But like, she still will say, like, you're the only thing that makes me happy. And I, I did something crazy where I, we, Val and I were in the car together and I was like, I just want to call my mom. I have no other time to do it. Do you want to listen? And she listened. Did you ever do something like that where there's a witness and you're like, no. This is weird. I know. This is weird.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And my mom, who knows I'm not coming home for Christmas, by the way, I spend a lot of my time being. Feeling sad and feeling loving. So I'm not just sure. Get over it, dumbass. Like, it's not that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And you're usually with her for Christmas. This is. No, okay, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

We usually alternate, but now that we have the baby, it's like we just want to make it about Leela, not fly to Boston.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And if I'm being real, and this is the hardest part, and I think we all kind of know, nobody likes it, nobody enjoys it, no one wants it for sure. Including them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, Jeanette. Yes, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

They flew out for Leila's four year old fourth birthday. Yeah, my dad. For everyone to hear. We're cutting the cake. And my dad's. He's always perpetually pulling up his pants. He's just going, he's shuffling over in his Tevas. And if you saw my dad's feet, you would see what a bold choice Tevas are. My dad is my foot. His foot takes a left. Like there's, it's just like, like two feet. He's going in two directions in one foot. And he's like, I'll wear the most open toe sandal. And he's pulling up his pants and, and he goes four. And my Val's parents are there and he goes 4,000 miles for a lousy slice of cake. And I'm like, if you're not enjoying this, who is this for?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Like it really becomes to a certain extent where it's like, you want to. This is so brutal to say. So I'm Oversharing. I'm like, we enjoy our Christmas, and you'll come and you won't enjoy our Christmas.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's just a loss. I hate what I'm saying right now, but nothing is.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I couldn't agree more.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So when it's like, why aren't you coming for Christmas? There's these, like, you talk about in the book. There's unspoken family things. One of our unspoken family things is like, we don't really work. We don't work. And by unspoken, I mean sometimes I do say that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I use Seinfeld voice, but I have to be like, we don't work.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Do you feel? Do you feel? I feel. I've felt that a lot recently. I was trying to figure out how to spend Christmas with my brothers. We haven't spent it all together since our mom died. And I thought, there's some part of me that thought, like, that became a child and thinking, oh, it's going to be this healing, beautiful, wonderful experience. We'll all be together. We'll all get through it. And then just working through, like, literally the second I sent the email thread to all three of them, I was like, what have I done? Like, why did I start this? And then realizing kind of that I don't think any of them want to really be there either. And I can feel them kind of making excuses for doing it and just being like, let's just not make this happen. Like, none of us want to do this, but why that can't be said. And why we have to pretend that we want it. And then also, just, like, the sadness that it's not. That we're not really that close and that we're not really that connected and that we don't really have much in common. It's like, it's. It can be really sad.

[Pete Holmes]

I know we're talking about a sad thing, but I'm, like, really happy because so much of life is not talking this way.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it drives me crazy.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And what we're talking about is what Val's therapist would say. Because sometimes Val talks about me in therapy, which, if I'm being honest, I'm like, that's so nice. You devoted a little time for you. I'm like, really? What did she say? But she was talking about this, and it was like, she would say, like, you have to. And Val would say, you have to, like, mourn, like, while you were saying it. It's like the little girl, Jeanette, and the little boy, Pete, that wants it to Work.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I could make myself cry. But I remember saying to my dad, I was just in one of those heart open moments, like a moment of clarity. And I was sitting with him and I was like, we should. We should take a road trip. Me, you, and my brother. Ugh, this is brutal. Have this pillow. And he looked at me and was like, yeah, we should. But the subtitles on it would be like, his line would be, dad, the reader in parentheses knowing it's never gonna happen would be his direction. Pete, knowing it's never gonna happen. Dad, we should take a road trip. It would actually say, earnest, yet knowing it'll never happen.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, coming to terms with that. One of the only ways I have to come to terms with it is having these conversations like this where I'm like, there's unspoken family mythologies. One is never admit that we don't work. Act like we work, but we all know it doesn't work. Yes, brutal. Yes, brutal.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It makes me think of, well, a couple things, but there's also, like the. The things that you then have to say to, like, reiterate, you know, in person. I don't know. I feel like it's so difficult for me to do the thing that I know I should do. For example, like one of my. I have two sister in laws. One of my sister in laws will do the thing of, like, we're always here for you. Like, we love you so much in this thing. And I feel. And none of them will ever watch this, which is why I feel comfortable saying it. Yeah, but. But I guess, you know, if they did, we'll figure it out.

[Pete Holmes]

If they did. Meundies.com Weird. Please just sell three. I'm just kidding. I just want them. I mean, if they're gonna watch and complicate your life, they might as well support the podcast. They're not gonna see it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

They avoid. They avoid. They tend. I've noticed that they sort of avoid anything where I'm talking about childhood stuff. That's just. It's difficult for them. And they, they. You know, one of them is. Has been in therapy. The others really aren't and aren't ready for it and don't really kind of want to go near it. But the can of worms thing, right?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to open the can of worms. Yes, open the worms.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so. Yeah, that's its own thing. Yes, that's its own thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't mean to interrupt, but.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Perspective towards therapy is so confusing. Oh, My God, they're worms. They're not gonna eat you. The metaphor is actually quite right. It's just worms.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Let them out.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

There you go. It's. Yeah. But I feel like I can't do that thing of, like. It feels so put on to me. If I were to go and, like, grab them by the shoulder and be like, God, we're just here for each other. Like, I can't get through the thing that I feel like would give them some sort. Because they're doing it to me, but I feel them also wanting it from me and wanting that, like, you know, reassurance of that we are a family and we're here for each other. And it's not that I think we would all be there if we needed one another for one reason or another, but it's not. There's. It's just not. We don't. We don't want to. There's just a disconnect. There's just a fundamental kind of. We just are not, you know, in harmony. We're not. I can't find the right way of.

[Pete Holmes]

Saying it, but very different people.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And why wouldn't we be? We are very different people. Some families luck out or they bond or. I don't know what the fuck they do. Can I. Do you relate to this? Because as you're saying, that that wishful hope.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When. If I am. Oh, God, this makes me want to puke. If I'm at my absolute best. And by best, I mean my perfect, which is a big theme in your book, which I also was. It's when I'm driving, I go, oh, God. Like, out loud saying, oh, God. But the concept of perfect, meaning don't feel how you feel. Just let the positive, pleasant emotions be a tarp over everything else. And if you dance as fast as you can and put on a show, then the family can sort of appear to work.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. It literally makes me uncomfortable talking about. I feel my whole body. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When I said I could puke, I'm not joking. It's like. So I'm being asked. And again, I don't want to sound too pretentious, but in the hopes that people listening can relate and we can all be healed a little bit. Is I did. I do still. I'm 42. 43. I'm one of those. I'm 43. I think I'm 43. I feel like the rodeo clowns that, like, come out and calm down the bulls and, like, I don't want to jump in a barrel and, like, honk my nose. And, like, I have to, like, do a character.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I said this on stage once. I'm going to throw this back to you. But when I go to Boston to do shows, I'll be like, I've been speaking in a fake Boston accent the entire time with my family, because that's the only. Like, it helps me, like, cope. I'll be like, Jay Holmes, how are you, big guy? Like, just this ridiculous character.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Ah, Jay, what a pain in the ass. Joe Lombardo. Your own, like, doing his jokes to him.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's laughing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then going to my mom being like, what a pain in the ass dad is. Am I right? Look at him. He didn't even care about your cauliflower. It's the only move. The only move is, like, bazooka shots. Like, you can't go in. You have to kick in the door and mow everybody down with bits. And everyone laughs. And then before you know it, it's over. But you go home and you feel like, you feel drained, exhausted, you feel used, you feel dishonest, all of this stuff. So I feeling. Oh, my God, there's gotta be a word for it. I bet in Germany they have a word for it. You mean schneichenachfacken. You had a little bit tushn much schneiking a fracking schneik in a fucking. I have schneiking a fucking. So I say on stage, just. And put it back to you, I go, I've been speaking in a fake Boston accent for the past, let's say, three days. And no one in my family has noticed. Like, not one of them goes like, what is this voice?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right? What's going on, man?

[Pete Holmes]

What are you doing?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Again, this is just the Jeanette and Pete make themselves almost cry episode. But if someone went like, pete, are you uncomfortable? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it seems like you feel like you have to perform. We can just sit and eat and like, how are ya? Like a real, like, how are you? Let me tell you a little bit about my day. It doesn't work that way. In fact, watching sitcoms, I'm talking too much. No, no, but you're from those types of shows. I would watch shows like that and be like, Blossom. And the dad with his high 80s 90s jeans would be like, blossom. You seem a little off. I'm like, if somebody said you seem off, like, they know what baseline is. Like, it was just bazooka bits. Bazooka Bits and golden child. Tell me everything.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What would happen, do you think, if somebody did say that? Like, at a gathering or something? If somebody really just, like, saw you for a second, what would it lead to?

[Pete Holmes]

The real heartbreak with my mom. I could. My mom and I could have a real chat, and my dad. It's very rare. It's almost like these clouds part and you find a moment and you can connect. But you better be talking about how great it is to win and how it sucks to lose and how hard work is great and aren't we better than other people? Like, these are the hips. Without really saying. You know, when they ask, like, how's blah, blah, blah doing? It's just like you doing better than them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Mm.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like how I scroll through Instagram, which is why I don't. It's like, where am I in relation to this person? It's not always, but there's that voice in my head.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But if my dad asked, really, what's going on? I wouldn't feel safe to answer because I would know. Five seconds in, he might just start going, like, am I off? What does it mean for me to be off?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

If Peter's off, where am I? And he'd come back and I'd be like. And that's probably the most vulnerable thing I've ever said. And it'd be like Ghost Walks or something. Like, he just. It's not even his fault. It's just not on the menu. Tractor beam. I hear you. I'm listening. And I'm not just guessing what you might say. I'm actually listening to what you are saying.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Schneichenfracklin. Too much. Schneikenflacken. What do you got? I'm talking too much. Jeanette, I'm sorry. Please. I'm just. No.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Now I'm just thinking, honestly, I'm doing exactly the thing that your dad would be doing. So now I'm thinking about my. Sort of my. My situation with my brothers and what to. I want to, like, solve it. I want to fix it. I want to. I mean, honestly, the other day, I was figuring out what to do, and I just. Like. I was talking to my significant other, and I felt like. I said, like. I just. I just. Can you just decide? Because I just feel like it's too. I feel overwhelmed. Anytime my family comes up, I feel completely like my decision making. I just can't make very simp. Simple decisions. I can't do it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's freeze, fight, flight Freeze.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, there's sparks happening. I can't focus. And then. And then I just kind of, like, started crying. Like, it just. It just started coming out of me and just feeling like I. I honestly. I go, well, it's just. I can't have any contact with them. I just can't do it. It's just too excruciating. Or then I'll go, well, why can't I just have a kind of a sense of humor about it? Why can't I just walk into these situations and just kind of go, it's literally six hours with my family on Christmas. Like, whatever. Just.

[Pete Holmes]

And yet it's not.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Is your partner good at that? Cause Val is the best. Okay, then they're tied for first. Cause Val is like, pete, stop it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We almost had a little funeral for. We bought this little coffin. We never did it, but we were gonna fill it with all these hopes, the things you. I know. We're dead. We're dead. Let's not even release this. We're dead. You and I are dead. Put it on our Wikipedia page. We died today at the same time. Cause it's too much. Yes, but we. She wanted, like, a ritual to help me, like, watch it burn up and just be like, it just is what it is, and it's okay. Yeah, but even as you're saying this, I had. This gets a big laugh when I say it on stage, too. And it's one of those things that I didn't even know was funny. But one of my cousins said to me. He was like, but, you know, you get married, but I'm doing my dad's voice. It wasn't my dad, but it is kind of something he would say. But he goes, but your mom's always your number one girl. And I was like, I'm feeling it right now. Like, acid rain on me, where even though I can have these boundaries, even though it's a win, it's not a win I'm fully comfortable with to be like, we're gonna stay home. I just saw you in October. I'm gonna take a break. Yes, but you hear the guilt. I'm even saying, like, I saw you in October, which none of us enjoyed. So check, check, check. Sorry I have to say this to you. The insanity of my family is not enjoying a hang. And during the hang, you're not enjoying. You're planning the next one. The next one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God. It kills me. Even. Okay, even with. Even with, like, just friends, when you're at a dinner and they're like already setting the next one two months from now. I thought, like, that's why we just did this, so we don't have to see each other.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

A long time.

[Pete Holmes]

And you feel this way too? Yes. You keep waiting for 1312 year old Pete to show up with his 43 year old. Therapized grump. Keeps showing up and saying things like, I'm not responsible for your happiness, Mom. This isn't a good hang. I said to my mom very casually, she was actually doing a really good job because she's, she's, she is a learning person and I'm watching her adapt and stopping herself from playing some of the old games that she used to play. So she actually is improving.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's incredible.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. And Val was the one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I mean, truly, that feel, I feel like that is so rare.

[Pete Holmes]

It is rare. So credit where credit's due. And I, and I really hope this isn't out of guilt. I really love her and there's like a desire for this connection. And yet I had somebody show up in my life. It was a friend and was like, I just miss us. We hadn't talked in 20 years.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, I needed Val to put it together, but she was like, they miss who you were to them 20 years ago.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And they don't know. And this friend was even like, I don't even know know your work. I didn't watch Crashing. I didn't, I don't watch your special. I don't listen to your podcast because I don't want you to change. Doesn't that sound like something your mom would say?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Right? I mean, it's the same sort of codependent yes be you're here to support this puke city.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I, I, I had a friend recently text me. It was a sort of late night text. And she said, I just want you to know I'm always, I'm always here for you. Like, I just, I love you forever and I'm always here for you. And I wish my reaction had been like, oh, that's so thoughtful. Like, that's really nice. My first thought was like, okay, she's on her period. Because I know she texts when she's sad, like late night. And so I kind of, I discount that for, honestly, for myself. And really, I just always feel like that's a different, that's a different thing. I know we're not supposed to do that, but I just feel that.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know. By the way, we all have hormonal things. The fact that there's a predictable one is just. It doesn't make women different from men. We're all having that. But there is a predictable one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Like, I know I'm gonna have. I'm gonna want to like, quit my career every time I'm on my period. It just happens every single time.

[Pete Holmes]

Val and I just had a little. We're very sweet, but we had a dust up and she was like, I'm sorry, I'm on my period. And I was like. And I was like, and I must be on whatever. My boy. I'm not trying to be funny, but like a boy period. And I'm like, I really overreacted too.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It happens.

[Pete Holmes]

So we're all doing it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Women just do it on a schedule, for sure. And not always. Not every period is that way.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Unless you're me. And then every single time, like work.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, she said that. Not don't cancel it. Menstruation cancellation. Pete Holmes is going down in flames after Jeanette McCurdy, who I'm reading now on the prompter, is glad her mom died. Pete Holmes claimed that all women get emotional and said what used to be funny in the 90s. Papa, my doll. Remember that? That was like a thing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so funny to me that I love being able to just write off something as being on my period. It makes me feel less accountable for it. It's so funny that. I don't know why.

[Pete Holmes]

I say this too much, but it's one of the greatest revelations of my 40s. We are blocks of tofu. Hormones go through that tofu. We behave in accordance to them and then we call it our personality. All it was was chemicals. We all know this. When you don't eat. I don't know, there's got to be a hormonal. Yeah, you eat in your hormones, for sure. I notice it if you exercise with weights, my testosterone goes up. I become a lot, like, quicker to anger. And this is like road rage, gym rage.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I thought that when I used to run a lot and I felt like, oh, I can't run because it makes me so much more hot tempered and.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, because you're coursing with all these like, you know, go kill a lion hormone.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

So I can't say it enough because it leads to self forgiveness. You know what I mean? It also leads to, like not taking anything too seriously.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes, like I was saying, my heart was open because I said to my dad. Let's go on a road trip. That was just a different hormone. I'm not saying there isn't an us that's doing stuff.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But, boy, we're a sailboat. And every breeze is a hormone.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Definitely.

[Pete Holmes]

And everybody. Nobody's immune to that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, right. I forgot what I was saying.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll find it the worst host. Who cares? As long as I get to make my hormones point. I was saying. You were saying if you have your period.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Period.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, your friend texted.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my friend text me. And I wanted my. Thank you. I wanted to rem. I wanted to feel. There was. There were a couple layers. My first instinct. I was, like, irritated, honestly, that. That. That this person had texted from this place.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Because I felt, okay. This person knew we had a very codependent relationship. This person knew me at a time when I really was struggling a lot. And this person. My thought as to why we became less close was. I think I was such. We were codependent was unhealthy. But also, I think this person was a fixer in a lot of ways. And really, I mean, was so incredibly kind and helpful to me in so many ways. But there came a certain point where I felt like I needed to take care of myself and do that for myself, and I couldn't rely so much on this person. And I kind of had recognized the unhealthy dynamic. And then I pulled away, and then that became like, oh, okay, we can't exist unless we're in that very specific dynamic where it's like me being needy, me needing help, me struggling, and you feeling like you're the savior and we can't get past that. And that was. It was difficult. It was uncomfortable. But then this text just hit me as irritating because I thought, like, what do you mean? I'm here if you ever need anything. That immediately puts me lower, makes me feel like. You know what I'm saying?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Like, I completely had a.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's fire up the old engine again. Because I like who I am when you're that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm gonna ask you to be that, because I miss being that. And you're like, what? Like, when people point out that helping can be. Let's put it this way, on the Enneagram, the two is the helper. And the problem, or the shadow of the two is that you want people to appreciate you. You also want people to not appreciate you. Anything that you can do to validate the fact that either you're better than everybody because you're Helping or you're better than everybody because you're helping? Both are the same. I completely agree with that. And in this in mind, I think the person was asking me to help them. And what's weird is there was a time in my life where I was. Really hadn't realized who I was. And therefore, this is gonna sound really pretentious, but, like, there's a time in my life where I was just more of an idiot and leaned into being an idiot. Because being an idiot made you kind of fun.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, if you were just kind of a doofus, you know, and then this person was like, be that doofus for me. I remember that doofus. And I was like, that was 20 years ago.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And I've just.

[Pete Holmes]

Again, this is the height of. This is literally pretentious. But it's like, it's been a lot of therapy, a lot of books, a lot of learning, a lot of growing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't wanna. I even look back and I was like. I was putting it on to merge with you or to mirror you. I was lowering. That's what I think a lot of people are doing. Lowering to a level because they. People like us, sensitive people can tell that's what's being asked. And now we're back to our families. Lower your age. Lower your.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Why is it so. I've thought a lot about this recently. Why is it so difficult to maintain the growth from what. From therapy or books or whatever it's been. Or aging or perspective, whatever. Why is it so difficult to maintain that in certain environments? Like, why. And around certain people? Why can't. Because. Because I wish it were possible to just kind of maintain those relationships. I don't know how to do that, to just be the person I am now. And I feel like I immediately revert. I start literally talking. My voice feels different coming out of my body.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too. It's like, Val can tell I'm on the phone with my mom.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Mom.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Boys. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And again, as a parent, I'm like, leila, you can't have. You can't have dad voice.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Voice.

[Pete Holmes]

We're not doing that. And I know that's good. Maybe be a thing. But you know what? It is one of the most beautiful lines, and it was brutal in your book, is the. The vibe in your house was like a held breath, right?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I'm getting that right. Yeah, I. I think I am.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so funny, anytime somebody quotes it, I'm always like, oh, God. Like, I don't know why. Yeah, Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think Held Breath is. Feels what?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It. It feels like I've been. I don't know, it feels like so dramatic. Like, just hearing that sounds so dramatic. And I'm like, can I see? I didn't mean it. Remember in the movie Held Breath? Like, it sounds so. Like, what was it? Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. In my book, I talk about my parents fighting. And I said, me and my brother frozen in his room like dogs waiting for fireworks to end. I mean, as you say it. Yeah, that'll give me the same feeling where I'm like. But you know what? Remember an adaptation? Did you see Adaptation?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, actually, kind of like a couple years ago, pretty recently, for the first time.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. It's great. It's one of my faves.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the guy playing Robert McKee, the story guy, is like. And Nick Cage, who's playing Charlie Kaufman, asks, what about a story where nothing really happens? So you're saying you feel too dramatic. And he goes, what about a story where nothing much really happens? And he goes, nothing happens. It's the guy from Succession. He goes, things happen. Life is dramatic. A friend dies on the steps of a church is his example, which makes me laugh every time. It's so specific.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

A friend dies on the steps of a church. I'm getting the impression's coming in better, but you know what I'm saying? So what you're saying is it's too dramatic and that's embarrassing. Yeah, life's fucking dramatic.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like kids waiting for parents to stop fighting. And your house.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So this all leads to. What I like about a Held Breath is it's so. I'm doing it. It's like. It's so precarious. You don't want to let it out. You don't want to let more in. You want to just hold it, but you're going to shake and meaning, isn't it, that there's no room. Like, one of the qualities of spirituality that I like that I think it helps cultivate a spaciousness. And when you feel spacious, there's room. It's what I'm trying to do with you. There's room for Jeanette to be who Jeanette is today. You know what I mean? And you're doing that for me. I feel that. You did this podcast, I don't know, seven years ago. So it's like, long time. We can be different. We can be different.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great. But again, it seems to be a common phenomenon, so maybe we can say by no Fault of their own. But when we go home, there's no spaciousness. So you have to. I've always said it's like they hand you your line. My question for you though is, do you think they feel that way? Do you think my dad is like, thank God Peter left, I can finally. I don't think he does. I don't think he does.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know? Yeah, I don't. And it's disappointing because I really could just be completely undermining them. But my thought is like, I don't think they do the kind of. They don't do the digging. They don't, they don't. It's just. Yeah, I literally. And yeah, literally, I wonder are they. Do they just go home and. That was a fun. That was fine. We got through. That was good. Like, what is their reaction? I'm sitting there feeling like my soul's like being sucked from my body and are they just like, that was a good time? I don't know. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

That goes back to my most heartbreaking point is when things just aren't good. You can only disrupt something that is good. Like our house is a happy house and in comes this other element and it fucks everything up.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like it really does. Are they going home and going like, that was weird or are they just like.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I think they're in like a, like kind of a stuck state. And you, you move that state around but it doesn't, it doesn't change. Like, we've tried.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You and I have tried our whole lives to kind of, you know, one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Of my sister in laws, I think she. We're less close than we used to be. I've known her since I was six years old. She and my brother were high school sweethearts and they've been together for so long. But there, there was definitely a shift in my 20s where I realized. Okay, I think, I just don't think like I feel like I'm being really fake to keep this relationship going at the same, at the same pace that it's going and to be as kind of intertwined with this person as I am. And I think that's totally normal of the, you know, it's what happens in your 20s, I, I think. But. But I, I kind of started creating distance there and I know she has picked up on it. I, you know, I can feel the tension.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But then I don't, I also don't want to bring it up because I know that that's gonna bring to closeness. It's gonna. No, I think it'll make us closer, and I don't want the closeness. So I'm like, fuck, this is right. Like, yeah, I know she feels it. I feel that if I. I could bring it up or, I mean, she could also have brought it up any number of times, but neither of us do. And I know I'm not doing it because I think that it will make us closer.

[Pete Holmes]

You actually just helped me find a deeper truth for me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Tell me.

[Pete Holmes]

Because my mom always goes, pity, sweetie, you're tolerating me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

She's like, I don't want to be tolerated. And I'm like, that's like, yeah, I am. Because it's too. She wants that little boy sit on her lap.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Kiss her, give her smooches. And also just completely merge. Like, there's so much merging in the book. In fact, the whole thing is merging. You didn't like acting. Your mom's like, you love acting. And you're like, I love acting. And like, all of this suppression and when you grow up, that doesn't work. That dog won't hunt. Is that the expression? That dog won't hunt? Yeah, it doesn't hunt anymore.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, you maybe thought, I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Know why Katie went like this.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I saw a. On my YouTube recommended, like, Kim Cattrall, I think. Kim Cattrall from Sex and the City. Is that right? Some sort of speech for, like, a women in power event or something. She's like, this is what happens when you go where you're celebrated and not where you're tolerated. That totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It just makes me think of. I don't know. I've thought about that on a couple occasions. I'm not super familiar with Kim Cattrall's work, but just that. That has. I don't know. It's. There's something. There's something to it.

[Pete Holmes]

I. Yeah, I. I know your mom died. What a dumb thing to say. I just wonder, did that give closure? Let's actually get to that question. We have to. We do mid rolls now. We weren't doing them seven years ago, but we do mid roll. But when we come back, I want to talk about if you got closure from that or if it's just the same looming presence. Because I've heard therapists go both ways.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So we'll be right back in literally two minutes, and we'll. And we'll keep going on this great conversation. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Next Evo. I know we talk a lot about cbd, but Nextevo has absolutely cracked the code, meaning this is cbd. For people who have tried CBD in the past and just weren't that into it, because why? First of all, this is. These are my words. I don't know how they did it. With science. They did it with science. They found a way to get the CBD into your system really quickly so you can tell how it feels, get your dose just right and get the effect just dialed in perfectly. And I'm holding right here, the cbd, the stress CBD complex, which mixes CBD in a gummy with Ashwagandha. Ashwagandha. We talk a lot about adaptogens on this podcast. It's because they've absolutely changed my life. Something about the blend of Ashwagandha and CBD together. This has absolutely been my secret weapon against stress. But also not just to, like, relax or, like, loaf out on the couch, but if I'm trying to work and I'm just a little bit too worked up or a little bit too tense to get into the. The. A place where I can just answer emails or sit down with a document that I have to work on, I take one of these and like I'm saying 10 minutes later, you just. You ease into it and you're able to work, you're able to focus, you're able to relax and go on a date or enjoy a movie. Something at the end of the day that can help take the edge off for sure, but also something in the morning that can help you ease into the things that you have to do. Because honestly, I'm a sensitive person. I get overwhelmed easily. I know a lot of us do. And the stress CBD complex has been a huge, huge help for me. The new year is obviously a fresh opportunity to achieve your full potential, but you can't be your best if you're stressed. So if you've tried. If you've tried the stress CBD complex like I have, you'll see it's a total game changer, helping you get into that flow state. And I didn't know it was possible to have CBD get into you this quickly. Usually it's kind of a like. Like, I don't know, did I take it? Is it here? This. There's no doubt it's here. And you can dial it in just right. Yes. Stress CBD complex has both Smart sorb. Smart sorb, meaning it absorbs smartly. Smart Sorb CBD and a patented whole plant Ashwagandha clinically proven to reduce stress by up to 70% and improve concentration by 50%. Next Evo uses that that it's over 30 times better absorption in the first 30 minutes. So don't just use any CBD brand. Most CBD products on the market have only 2 to 10% absorption 2 to 10% absorption. So at least 90% is actually wasted. It's simple. If it's not absorbed, it can't help you. And nextevo has cracked the code. It's different. It delivers four times better overall CBD absorption and has been proven in multiple clinical studies. And mixed with that Ashwagandha, it's an absolute game changer. So make CBD a part of your full potential. With Nextevo naturals go to nextevo.com podcast and use promo code WEIRD to get 20 off your first order of $40 or more. That's 20 off 40 bucks or more at n e x t e v o.com podcast promo code WEIRD. I know that by heart because I use my own promo code to order refills on this and I'm just fully subscribed at this point. Next up. Oh I gotta get it. Hold the phone. It's over here. Hold the phone. I can't talk about Displate without showing you my Displate. What is this? This is a metal poster. This is this is the not feeling it chicken. And this is available on displate displate.com petehomes and we have five different designs ready to purchase. One of them, of course is the not feeling it chicken. So if you love not feeling it as much as I do and you want something substantial, not just a piece of paper hanging on your wall peeling off on one corner looking like crap, get yourself a one of a kind metal poster designed to capture your unique passions. Displate created a 21st century canvas, as you can see is sturdy, magnet mounted and durable enough to withstand a lifetime of intense sharing. But starting is only half the fun. You can even customize, collect and rearrange them at will. Displays Display Excuse me. Displate has both branded and artistic artwork. They have over 1 million designs available for everyone including Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Netflix, NASA, South park, games, movies. You can find something for everyone, anything that they're passionate about. I guarantee you'll find some version of it on display and you'll find it in this permanent, awesome, heavy, badass looking way. Each product is high quality design, printed on metal in Europe and hand signed by their method master of Production Displate creates a unique safe magnet mounting system that only takes 20 seconds. You don't have to drill into your walls. All you do is wipe off your wall with a cleaning wipe stick on a protective leaf, place a magnet and put the Displate on your wall. It's that easy. Displate delivers its products worldwide in only 45 business days. It's a perfect alternative for standard paper posters that often get damaged and don't look that great. And it doesn't leave marks on the wall. It's incredible. They also, they're also eco friendly. For every design sold, they're planting a tree. So right now Displate is having the biggest discount ever. That's one to two. Displaces, you get 20 off. Three or more, you get 30 off. Like I said, there's five. Pete Holmes [e-mail] Pete Homes. Use the link in the description. Go to display displate.com pete holmeS-I-S-P-L-A-T.com pete holmes and use code weird at the checkout. Displate. Collect your passions. All right, everybody, let's get Back to the second half of Janette McCurdy. And we're back. What I was going to say, like the longer version of couch.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's really good. It really is.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad you like it. I've had people really not like it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Why?

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's too deep seated.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

A lot of people just slump in it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm for sure slumping, but I love that. I love feeling like you just kind of become my.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you're the only one that went crossy legged. That's what you're supposed to do.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What are people?

[Pete Holmes]

I tell everybody. Most people. Chris's strategist did it and he was great, but he sat like Pinocchio on the edge of a stool.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

How do you. The whole time he's just like, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It was kind of to the side. It was like we were in a car together.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Very intimate. We are. This is.

[Pete Holmes]

This is what it's supposed to be. Locked off, sleepover style. You're the only one that gets this, Jojo. You're the only one. And before we get to my question, I won't forget the question. What is your favorite candy?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

My favorite candy is Sour Patch Kids.

[Pete Holmes]

Fucking great choice.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's a good choice, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Jesus Christ. I remember being scared of Sour Patch Kids.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Why?

[Pete Holmes]

Because they're sour. I don't want that. I don't want a 9 volt battery with my Popcorn.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I love the sour. Like the warheads and the. You know, the. Anything that, like. Like, makes your tongue lose feeling after you've had it.

[Pete Holmes]

I wish I had. I bought. I have something called Grenades. Gum, which is the strongest gum. I like to say it's the strongest gum in the world. I don't know if that's true, but it's like, Japanese strong.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, novelty Japanese.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And I absolutely love it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like. Are you an addict?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. I would say I definitely. That's my. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't mean to jump right there.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But a lot of people like us.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That I. I got over it. I now love sour.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something I can eat that'll, like, clear my sinuses. That's what grenades do.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You like jalapenos?

[Pete Holmes]

I'll eat a jalapeno.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh. See, I have a theory that anybody who's an addict loves jalapenos. Or really just anything that has a really. Yeah. Like, intense.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

There's something about mine is wasabi.

[Pete Holmes]

Wasabi peas.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay, great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, I'll eat those. And I want the painful one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Give me the most intense. Give me the fucking.

[Pete Holmes]

I want tears in my eyes. I regret this because Richard Rohrer, who writes a lot about addiction, who I love, he said that what addicts are looking for is the feeling of being alive. The reason I like that is it humanizes us. It's not just, like, just pure victim. Like, they just can't stop. It's actually, like. There's actually something. It's a misappropriation of a beautiful urge. And there's even a misappropriation of, like, the ghost of Christmas Present in the Muppet. Muppet. Muppet Christmas Movie.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The retelling of the Charles Dickens ones.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Michael Kind. I'm sort of. I can be like the ghost of Christmas Present, where I'm like, more. More wasabi, more spicy, more feeling. But then that can go all these dark ways. But what was I saying? Oh. So the feeling of being alive when you're burning up from wasabi, there's no question that you exist.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm here.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm fucking here. I'm the guy that's burning up with wasabi.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You relate to that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. And Richard War. That sounds familiar.

[Pete Holmes]

He's the Franciscan that I'm obsessed with. I absolutely love him. He wrote Falling Upward, I think is his biggest book.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. No, I Haven't read it. But his name sounds familiar. Maybe I've seen a TED Talk or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe. Yeah. He has a lot of crossover because he's one of those. I hate that, this, that you have to like, like that spiritual people. You have to be like, you know, he's, he loves everyone. He's not, he doesn't judge people. He doesn't believe in hell, all of these. So he's just talking about the present moment. He's just talking about accepting your acceptedness. I think, I think that's actually one of his lines.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Accepting your, that you are accepted. See, that's a little, that's a reach for me. That's like, okay, let me think.

[Pete Holmes]

Did I lose you?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Accepting that you're accepted?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. He would say that the job of being a human is to accept that you're accepted because by yourself, by, by the universe, you can say, we don't have to say God. You can just say that you are a dignified member of reality.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

How do you feel about. Is, do you label the universe? What do you, what do I use?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I have no problem with God. But that took.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Me neither. I, well, here's my thought. I, I, For a while, well, I, well, from growing up religious, I was so sort of like, absolutely no hard no on anything religious, no God, no whatever. And then I kind of was dipping my toe back into spirituality and started calling it the universe. And then I felt like, well, if I'm gonna call it the universe, like, why not just call it God? That felt kind of, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

It just, it feels, I think it's empowering.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

To me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Because if you don't call it God, talk about yes. Anding your victimhood. That's the first thing we said. But if you don't, you're going, look. And this is a fine way to feel.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But for me, getting back to a place where I could say God, I can even throw out a Jesus, a sweet baby Jesus.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

There you go. There you go.

[Pete Holmes]

I can throw out a sweet Baby Jesus. For me, I. Sometimes Val and I do the Friday podcast and I'll catch myself saying the Holy Spirit or something. And I'm like, you gotta watch it. Because some people hate this language so much, but it's just like, comes out of it. I know. I want to talk about that, that with you. Because the Holy Ghost is different in the Latter Day Saint tradition a little bit.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What is the Holy Spirit? What is the same thing? Oh, okay, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy Spirit. Holy Ghost.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Same thing. Okay, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

But the communique, the open communique. Love to talk about that. Or we can just tease that. That's in the book. It's very interesting. But to me, the yes ending of the victimhood is saying like, this is so fucked and twisted for me and ruined for me. I can't even say it. Or you go like, no, I'm going to start saying and I'm going to retrain that groove and reclaim it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Take back the night.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yep. 100%. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That, that's been meaningful for me, even though I understand if somebody doesn't want to say it. So accepting that you're accepted. I've studied a lot of spiritual, different practices.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was thinking about this on the right in. Actually, I was thinking they all sort of come down to dropping your guilt, dropping your shame. I'm not talking about mainstream Christianity. They would love you to keep your shame. And the Mormon Church as well. Like a lot of churches can have that going on for sure. I say that based on the Mormons that I knew that would tie their wrists to bed at night. So that's not exactly going like God loves you no matter what. Relax, go have a good jerk in the bathroom. Hey, Elder. Go have a big jerk in the bathroom. Because you obsessing about it is way worse than just blasting one out and getting on with your mission, buddy. There's some Mormon missionary in Venezuela listening and he's like, he's right. But this is Doc Martens takes him off with the yellow colored in and just blasts out, oh God, I've offended myself. Accepting that you're accepted, dropping shame, dropping guilt and realizing that this thing that we call God is inside of you and everywhere, meaning not in the sky.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And if God, which we can all agree is perfect oneness, perfect holiness, all these things that don't mean anything.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's inside of you. You therefore are also holy or good. Or by holy I mean like whole and you've sort of forgotten. And peace or salvation or conversion or enlightenment is going like, if I'm a piece of God and God is perfect, then I am perfect. Because I can't be the. I'm not sullying, can't be sullied.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm just telling myself a story of guilt when I could just drop that. Wake up to reality, wake up to perfect oneness. That, that's, that's what I would say. A lot of them are pointing and.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You mentioned both guilt and shame.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the, the, the twisty chocolate vanilla ice cream cone of shame and guilt.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What is your. So I, I, I've gotten so mixed up in guilt and shame. I typically think of guilt as helpful. I think of guilt is like, okay, I need to like apologize, correct something.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want to? Then if you like being corrected, you're gonna love this.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. Yeah, pull up.

[Pete Holmes]

No. 100% JK. I think just the language I would use is the difference between guilt and remorse.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Ah, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You want remorse.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yes, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Remorse is good.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Totally. So, so guilt and shame are, is according to Richard Rohr or this is.

[Pete Holmes]

Just, I'm kind of generalizing on saying a lot of them are saying like, go easy on yourself.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I find language like some people find this gaslighting, like Val, Val does not like this type of language. But thinking of reality as a dream or just play. My daughter's name is Leela. It means play or dance of life. Meaning it is what we're perceiving, but not just somewhere else. Behind this is a perfect loving oneness. Like here and now it's here and we've. Our job is to remove the impediments to perceiving it. And you know how you do that? It's by loving each other, forgiving each other and forgiving yourself and forgiving reality.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's all of this stuff that nobody in their right mind really wants to do. Again, not to shit on your mom, but she loved the victimhood.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

She loved guilt and she loved to blame. And everything was like. I'm saying this because I relate.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I do this too. Everything else is the problem and everyone else is the problem.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And like that's a nice thing to do with your guilt, is project it out and go. This casting agent won't book Jeanette. Fuck you.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Pete Holmes]

Sweetheart. I mean it like really sweet, sweet sweetheart. Sweetheart. Not like a Don Draper cigarette cocktail waitress, but like sweetheart.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, let's just go easy on ourselves. That's what we're doing. Yeah, we're scapegoating. When really it's easier said than done, but like, just relax into the sizzling champagne bubble bath love that's right here.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, I didn't realize the thing about self forgiveness. It always felt to me like that was such a, like it was, you know, lazy or, you know, I have, I feel such a need to like prove myself even to myself that the idea of like, it just felt like going easy on myself, letting myself go. I kind of Feared what was on the other side of self. Forgiveness. But I really did feel, you know, because you vanish. Yes, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the opposite of wasabi P. Exactly. You're not.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Or angry or Right. God, I love being right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What? Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Where do you go?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

The word for that is mercy. Father Greg Boyle did this podcast and he was like, I don't like forgiveness. Forgiveness. Because forgiveness acknowledges that something bad happened, something wrong happened. Mercy is just. It's always there. It doesn't think about it. Well, Jeanette didn't mean to hurt my feelings. Probably having a bad day. That's like fucking cheap dollar store forgiveness. But mercy is like completely irrational, completely illogical, and does not perpetuate or affirm your existence, which what makes it so scary.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's better to be like, now you. Because that's a wasabi P. I wonder why too.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Like mercy, I immediately think more religious than for even forgiven. For a while I think there I also was. Was averse to it because of it being so religious. Y. But then now it's like, okay, mercy seems more religious than forgiveness. Why does something like. I immediately felt myself be kind of defensive toward mercy when you just were talking about it right there? I felt myself like, oh, I don't know. I can kind of get on board. I get it with that.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I completely get it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

But I think mercy is offensive to most people if we're being honest. Because mercy says nothing happened. And if nothing happened, then like, what? This doesn't matter, right? That or this mother or that piece of shit. I'm right. And they deserve hell and I deserve heaven. And it goes, now drop it all in the acid of mercy. And we go like, we don't want a God with mercy. We want a God that sides with us and condemns our enemies.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's another bad parent. We want a special relationship with our secret God and everybody else gets fucked. And I say that with. Again, I'm trying to say that with compassion because I used to be one of those people.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure feels good.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable. It's more. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna throw you another weird one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Even if God's mad at you, if you think you're a wicked little boy or girl, that's good because at least he knows who you are. Val and I were just talking about this, which is also very dualistic. And it's also not mercy. It's not even forgiveness. It's wrath. But you Love it. Because it's another wasabi P. You upset the president of the fucking cosmos and he's coming for you. That feels good, too. Never occurred to me that you might. Your behavior might actually be unconsciously seeking things that you, you know, quote unquote, no, God won't like. Because at least then, wasabi P. You exist because you're walking around with that heavy lead coat you wear at the dentist of shame, guilt. And you're. And you're wicked. And he's gonna kick your ass or burn you up, but at least he's affirming Jeanette McCurdy exists. Her behavior mattered, right? Mercy sucks. We hate mercy. The mercy that just goes like, come on in. Who wants to go to a country club where everyone can get in There's.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay, I have concern. How do you stay grounded while spiritual practice is big for you? Is it? So it's. How do you stay grounded?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, big time. To camera. Big time. Put my Twitter handle at the bottom. Big time. I am just having a laugh. That a man who sells his ego in segments for his job is also like, love the Lord. I do. But it's funny, too. It's both. It can be both. Big time spiritual. Have you read my Wikipedia page? Holmes is interested in spiritualities of all varieties. Humility, mercy. He's. It says he's more into mercy than forgiveness. With a 1. And the references to this podcast. What a silly, silly thing we're doing. What a weird dream. Oh, my God. Oh, gosh.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. At a certain. I.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I. I love therapy. It has helped me to be a functioning person and a, you know, and a healthy person. But I do feel. I guess I feel concerned that I, I just becoming too therapized, becoming too spiritual that I get lost in, which is, I know, kind of the, The. The. The point is to lose yourself and all and like, you know, whatever. But I, like, there's some. There's some times when. If a therapist telling me something and they're kind of like, neutralizing my thinking, where it's just. Just. It makes me want to throw something. Like, it's just like. That's so neutral.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's not like, there ha. Like, if you don't. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything like that. It just feels like what is. Where. Like I want them. And I, I, The. The. The. I work with a therapist now who really will tell me how she feels and what her kind of judgment is about the thing or where she's like, oh, you know what? I don't think this is, like, she just tells me where she stands. And I find it so, so helpful because I think, where do you. You can't. Everything's not just like, well, it's neither here nor there. It could be this or it could be. I know. It could be this or it could be that. I'm here to figure out whether it's this or that. Yeah, I.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, we've just stepped into another one of my favorite. And this is what VAL is so good.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You need val. You can't just have Pete. You need val, too. Meaning there's different altitudes and if you want to come.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Put that out, please. My Pete Holmes show pillows. I love humility. I just love vanishing into the void of God's love. Watch Pete Holmes show clips on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe and make sure Alerts are on 100% JK. In fact, unsubscribe. I'm just kidding. I don't know what I'm doing. There's just different altitudes, and I think this is one of the tricky things. Different altitudes to fly at. So here's your issue.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And we can fly way up here and go, like, Jeanette, just dissolve into the champagne hot tub of God's love. Fuck off. Right?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because sometimes you just. The most loving thing to do, which, again, isn't just for its own sake. It's like, by me loving, and when I say forgiving, I don't mean looking the other way on an error, but just meeting you where you are not going, like. Well, Jeanette should realize that God's love is right here. And why she. Fuck that. Forgiveness might actually just be like. Like Jesus Christ. Yeah. You shouldn't have to go. I just had to go to traffic school. To traffic school or whatever it is. Like, sometimes you need that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But like, that spiritual bypassing. Or as I think you were saying, being ungrounded.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Untethered feet off the ground sometimes can be the least helpful thing. In fact, Val has to remind me all the time that she's like, don't be too Ram Dass. Be Richard. Because Richard Rohr is very on the Earth and very loving. And Ram Dass would be like, it's all an illusion, baby.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Not helpful right now. And he would say the same.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm gonna look up Richard Rohr.

[Pete Holmes]

You will love Richard, Roy, if you're okay with the sweet cheese, a little mention every five pages. You might. He might talk about oh, it's sweet juice.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. That's a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it a lot?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Every five pages.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but the pages are huge.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

They're like beach towels.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to go like, oh, man. There's like, it's five, ten page book. The Naked now is a good one. Are you. Do you like Eckhart Tolle and stuff like that?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I did the Power of Now and I did the follow up to it, the New Earth. Yes, yes. They're both those kind of a while ago, and I really liked them, but I read them when I was sort of falling in love into a really. Into a very addictive relationship. And I think I was just kind of high on that and, like, reading them from that place, like, oh, my God, everything's amazing. Like, it was the most.

[Pete Holmes]

So funny.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was. I was. I was 21 and it was. It was intense. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was gonna say, is that this one, you're like a really toxic, like, unhealthy, codependent relationship. You mean the one you're now. I relate so hard to what you're saying because the last time I've read or listened to those books dozens of times. And the last time was when I was starring in a multicam sitcom, which, as you know, super fun. Great schedule. I know yours was complex, but the schedule.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Great schedule. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And old Holmesy was so high on life that it was bleeding into his interpretation of spiritual things. And that's like, I can get kind of embarrassed. I'm like, you were the star of your own show. Of course you could walk around being like, it's all one, man. It's all one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have to do traffic school animals. Like, maybe duality's real. This website's really riding my ass. There's nothing more boring than traffic school. I thought it might be fun. It was the most boring thing I haven't been. Well, it was online, just reading stuff.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And I'm like, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which one of the questions was like, which of the following is a two point violation? How is that helpful?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What is this for?

[Pete Holmes]

I got pulled over. Speaking of which, do you have that? Because I have that from my mom. The story of you and your dad getting the smoothie.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you come home and your mom is, like, waiting for you.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. The sound of her keys, like, if I heard her keys, to this day, I could tell you that from any other set of keys. It's like, so distinct. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Brutal.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This stays on the spiritual thing. Do you still have a hard time accepting an image of God that isn't waiting for you with keys. Because that stuff bleeds into. Can bleed into our perception of our higher power.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, I try not to. I try to think of God as. There's still an element of needing to perform for him, of needing to, like, achieve for him, or feeling like, well, if I do this, then good things will happen. And I definitely noticed I had a bit more. I had a bit of a, like, resurgence of OCD kind of a couple weeks into the book coming out and with it, you know, doing so. And I wanted it to keep doing well. So I thought, oh, if I keep. If, like my ritualistic behavior was kind of just clicking into gear again.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

If I keep everything. If I keep control over all these things, then. Then all the success will continue. And it was. Yeah, I've definitely had to pay extra attention to that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, for a couple months.

[Pete Holmes]

I relate hard, really. Somebody. Just this last week, Val and I had a nice chat about this on. We made it weird, but, oh, no, it didn't come up. We meant to. Somebody texted me and they were like, I want a dear friend of mine.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

She's like, I really want to break into writing. And I'm like, why do I hate this so much? And I actually. We uncovered it. We talked about it for quite a while. Not meaning the person or the ask.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just like, why do I hate trying to find an answer to this question? And I was like, I think it drop brings into my awareness something I don't want to look at, which is the randomness of success.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

So when you're ritualizing your book success. Oh, it's from a Fear of the same thing. Right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I 100% want to believe it's because it's this great work of art and it's all the writing and it's all like.

[Pete Holmes]

Or whatever your ritual was. How is that different from me being like, it's. Stick to it. Iveness or whatever the fuck. You know what I mean?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Valentine were talking about it. I was like, there's a lot of people very talented. Because I'm like, oh, they didn't make it. But they weren't out every night. A lot of them were. They didn't. They. They didn't make it, by the way, we're putting make it in quotes. But they didn't write spec script. A lot of them did. Like, there's this like, X factor element of unfair, cold, whatever. It is it's not even justice. It's like it's Plinko on the Price is Right. Things are just. And you don't want to look at it. And when someone says, how do you become a writer? And you're like, well, in you asking me, it's really making me realize that you could call it luck, you could call it fate, you could call it good fortune. These are all synonymous. But, like, there's right time, right place stuff, and it's scary. Meaning I'm not ocd, but I have. I'll catch myself being like, don't think that way, because that's naughty. And the universe will. Will see you for who you are and will turn off the faucet.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

That's. Again, I'm just trying to relate to you totally. That's not clinical ocd, but it is magical thinking.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And everybody. I'm not saying everybody has that. I can't speak for everybody. I have that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So your book was doing well. What was. How did it manifest? Or is that a two person.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, no, no. So I, I mean, this is maybe the, the scariest of all because I hadn't. I, I'm sort of, of. I need to purge things often because my mom was a hoarder. And so I feel like, oh, I want to keep my space very clean. But I was like, holding on to shampoo and conditioner that I had finished because I was like, oh, well, that was the shampoo I was using when it debuted at number one, and I wanted to stay at number one.

[Pete Holmes]

And it was the number one shampoo.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

So it literally. And, and then there was a part of me that was like, almost it would flirt with the idea of relief at it not being at number one because I thought, well, then I don't have to uphold the rituals. As soon as it's not number one, I don't have to keep doing this. But then, Then of course, it's like, well, it's on the times list still. So now I'm just gonna do it till it's off the top. So then it like. But I, I, I mean, I still have. Yeah, I have like a hand cream jar that was an empty hand cream that's still in my cupboard. I have a shampoo and conditioner. And then, like, I twirl in the bathroom. Like, I twirl around myself, which is kind of spin.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I spin.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It is called twirling. I just want to make sure.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When you said that, I thought maybe a baton or something?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, just myself. Yeah, this is.

[Pete Holmes]

This isn't othering you. I'm curious. Could you refill the old bottle with new shampoo? It's just interesting to me that, like, what are the ones like? Let's talk about them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Interesting. I think that would work. That would feel. That would feel okay to me. Yeah. Yeah, that would be okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes I can really get in touch with how insane it is that we throw things away and, like, things that meant stuff to us. I've had that with skin. Like, you ever get, like, a sunburn and you pull off your skin and you're like. Like, this was me. And then you throw it away.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's so nasty.

[Pete Holmes]

I know it's really gross, but it happens. Something that was you. And I'm like, this just goes in the trash.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I had it with a blister, literally, a couple weeks ago.

[Pete Holmes]

See? Oh, thank you for joining me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But I was ready to get rid of it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, there's grosser and other examples, but you're just sort of like. We have a friend whose kid I think, has ocd, and one time they had a very big meltdown because they. They threw something away. I think they were just at Disney and they threw away a bottle.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And it was like, but where is it?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, look, it's tempting to scapegoat that child and be like, grow up. But I'm also like, I thought that as I was taking out the trash last week, I was like, this is just our family. How many bags? Where is this trash?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And also, how weird is it that it's like razors that were touching your face and grooming you and these bottles that were like, you're sitting with you at the time.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

It was in my shower. Like, your bottles was there with you.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All this time and you just fucking throw it away.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And isn't it. Well, you tell me, is it death anxiety, too? Is there something like a. I'll be thrown away? That is. That's what it is for me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I think there's some element of that, and then. Yeah, I think there's some element of that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But what is it? More just what you said, the specialness.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah. And feeling like I want things to keep going well. I really, really want things to keep going well. And I want to believe I have some control over that. I really want to believe that I have some hand or some ability to keep that happening. And. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't want to Believe it's random. I don't want to believe there's any element that's random or.

[Pete Holmes]

But also with your mom again going to the universe and, and I'm really struck sometimes where I'm like, our parents teach us not what God actually is, but how we relate to God. I think it can. Meaning your mom was a, was like a 50 sided Rubik's cube. You know what I mean? Like, it seemed like you didn't know which one you were going to get. But like, like me different but similar. Got very good at reading it. When I was reading a book, I was like, oh, you'll relate to like I could speak mom, but no one else could speak mom. And I could, I could speak dad. I'd translate what mom said and I'd translate it to dad.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Then I translate it to my brother. I was like, why am I the only one who can fucking do this?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And the line I said to my dad, we still laugh about it, even though I'm like, why are we laughing about this is. I was a little kid, like 10, and I looked at my dad and I was like, why don't you just do what mom says? Because I thought I had figured out the answer, which is like, if you want the house to be calm, just fucking do what she says. And as I got older, I was like, because my dad is also a person with his own needs. And so I still kind of wish he had maybe walked, maybe middle, just the middle ground. A couple compromises here and there. But where were we? I, I. Did you have anything else before I go back to the question?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Well, I'm curious what that is. What is that? What is that thing? You have siblings?

[Pete Holmes]

I have one brother.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. What is. And he, he didn't speak the languages of.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobody spoke, John.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What is then? What is that? What is that? Is it that you just want to speak so you figure it out or stop fights?

[Pete Holmes]

I think to stop.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But then why wouldn't other people, like, like, I mean it. This truly like, it baffles me.

[Pete Holmes]

Why, why, why aren't they trying to figure it out? Yeah, why aren't they? That's the whole thing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Someone hates when shit's going crazy so much.

[Pete Holmes]

Unless they don't see that's an Eckhart Tolle thing that's in the power now. I'm not trying to shame you that you forgot it. Like, no, no, no, no. Don't you remember? But he talks about like how some relationships. He talks about our pain Body. And our pain body is a collection of our past hurts, our psychology, and all our attacking memories.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like just the most vulnerable.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

When, like when Val and I had that little dust up, we both were like, I think we're in our pain bodies. It's just the language we use.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you feel sort of possessed. You're not thinking clearly.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, Yeah, I feel. I always feel like my brain's going at a faster. Like it's just. It can't really focus. It can't.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You go like, this would be solved if I would just sit down, take a breath. But you can't.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just like, I cannot.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Going too fast. Yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's over some nonsense. But he. Eckhart Tolle says that some relationships are just pain bodies who get together to feed each other. Like, not feed each other goodness, just feed each other. Like the meat from Tiger King. You know, those disgusting pizzas. Like, you just feed each other shit. Because again, it's another type of wasabi pee. Meaning not everybody does want peace. And it does go back to the spiritual thing. It's like the first step to peace is admitting you don't really want peace. You actually kind of like just a little. Even if it's good stuff, that's not very peaceful. Because even when your book was doing well, you were like, when does it end? That's another wasabi P. Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so interesting. I've been thinking, too, just from recently, about sort of being having the addict mindset, having addictive tendencies and being just kind of obsessive about things. And I'm in a really good relationship now, and we've been together for six years, six and a half years. But there's some times when I just feel like it just is too boring for me. And we speak about this all the time because he's very Frankie Muniz.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, tell me about Frankie. Frankie just clickbait. Would you go into your relationship with Franklin Muniz? And if you don't correct me, we will assume that it is Frankie M. And the M. Muniz. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

But we did have a good laugh. So. Good relationship. We're gonna lose it to the friend.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Good relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And he's okay with the. He's okay with the boring. Yeah, he's okay with it. And he's.

[Pete Holmes]

He's a steady Eddie.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

He doesn't have a. He's very Steady. He's very. He doesn't have that addictive. Like, he doesn't even relate, you know, I'll explain what it feels like for me. And he just doesn't have that thing. That addictive kind of thing. And there's some. There's some part of me that really just feels like, God, we end up with a stable relationship, and I'm. I'm healthy and functioning now, and there's a part of me that crops up fairly often. Like, more often than I. Than I would like, for sure. That's just like, I just want to fuck everything up. I just want to do something that's, like, rebellious and. And, you know, just. Just get that impulse, you know, I wanna.

[Pete Holmes]

Where's that from? Oh, yeah, it's in the master, where Joaquin Phoenix, who represents. In my interpretation, represents the ego. So it's the part. And he's talking to. What is that guy's name? Jesse Plemons.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who everybody loves. We all love Jesse Plum.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Jesse Plemons.

[Pete Holmes]

He's yelling at Jesse Plemons. He's like, get mad. Hit me. Throw something like that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That is the voice of the ego.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, call me a. Like, it won't tolerate just, like, okayness and.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is peace.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, it can be peace.

[Pete Holmes]

And even as you're saying it, and even for all the good game, I'm. I'm spitting about, like. Like, wanting surrender and wanting forgiveness and stuff.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is so healing to me, this conversation. And we're not. We're not flying at the highest altitude. I. I relate to what you're saying.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And at the same time, I'm like, it sounds like a good thing for. For you, because that's what Val is for me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

She is in therapy. I used to say is when we were dating, I was like, if there's any problem, it's that I will tire. And she knows this. I'd go of the peppermint fountain. Like, there's a fountain, and I just fill it up, and it's like a clear glass, and it looks like a candy cane, but it's a glass of candy cane. And I'm like, peppermint. And if I ever get tired of never ending. Peppermint.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank God. Here's something nice about my parents. Whatever they did, they instilled enough like, no, you deserve to be happy. You deserve to be loved that I can go like, no, you know what? I actually really like somebody that loves me constantly. So much so that she Talks about me in her therapy and gives me little tips.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

That might sound unloving, but I take it as quite loving.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So, yeah, they gave me that for sure. And you've been almost seven years.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Almost seven years. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which means you've regenerated. You've been cellularly in six months, you'll have known each other completely different people.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Wow. Okay. I mean, it definitely feels that way. I've changed so much. He's changed so much.

[Pete Holmes]

Growing together.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What's that?

[Pete Holmes]

Growing together.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yeah. But then also just who we are individually. We've grown so much closer and so much. That element I love and I wouldn't trade that. And also it's cool to see how much we've, I think informed how we've each grown individually, but in big ways. But that we're more ourselves, but just. Yeah, it's really exactly the phrase you.

[Pete Holmes]

Want is more ourselves.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The opposite of what we. What we've been talking about. Like, imagine I've been in relationships like this where you have to get in character.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the same wound playing out again. But if you found somebody where you can be safe and be yourself, I mean.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, I've definitely had the in character ones. I. There was somebody I was with during, when I used to be on vine, that app that really rip vine and we missed. And the guy would say, just be more like you are on Vine. Like you. You be like, you know, do that more.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, did he meet you on the app Vine? I mean, the only way I would accept this is if you met because you connected on Vine.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I think he had seen. I think. I think he had seen some of my Vine. We didn't. Yeah, we didn't like meet through friends. We met sort of through social media.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Oh, my God. Can I say who I. We were talking about? Friends don't miss us. They miss who we were 20 years ago. I don't miss the app Vine. I miss the guy that was making vine. Just still kind of had had it in me. I'd make little like Good Night Vines. Oh, I loved my Vine. I was all about it. Oh, and I'm very proud. I wouldn't say I'm very proud, but you can type in because Val and I did it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Pete Holmes vine compilation and watched my old vines and it sounds like just like a exercise in narcissism. But it was really just going like, remember, wow. Just like silly.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like I just seem like I Was worried about less.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Do you feel. Do you feel that? Like, do you feel that you're worried about more?

[Pete Holmes]

I do, yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, there's part of my awareness. It's like, where's Val? Where's Leela? Like, just kind of like, in a loving way, not a nervous way. Where are they? Where are we@?me.com weird. Or the sponsors happy and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Always me undies. I should pick a different one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Do you feel. Yeah. Do you feel in. In relationship that you're. That you? I do that so often. I hate when I get stuck there of, like, how are we compared to how we were before? How are we. Where are we gonna go in the future? Like, I have to try and. Try and calm that part of myself to be present. Yeah. Because I really. My. My instinct is so often to not be present and to be the list maker. The. The. How many times have we had sex this week? Okay. Is that enough? Is that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, and, you know, sometimes we need that. You know what I mean? Like, in Val and I's relationship, we fill in the blanks. We're both kind of, like, kind of soft and gentle, and then there's different parts of each of us that is rigid.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Have you heard of internal family systems? Parts work.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm familiar with it. I've never done it, though.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I've started it recently.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, I really. I like it.

[Pete Holmes]

But Val's recommended it before.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

I think she's more familiar with it than I am.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

They just mentioned a thing of, like, how sometimes, you know, you've got your different parts, and the idea being to sort of integrate them more, but also that sometimes. Okay. To let a certain part kind of take the reins, if that's what's needed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Just what you said reminded me of that and letting the manager.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you were talking. You're freezing. This. I can help Val out of her frozenness, and she can help me out of my frozenness. And what's beautiful is that we do that for one another.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

There's been plenty of times where I'll go, like, you're not doing that. It's a beautiful loving. And she starts laughing, and I'm like, that sounds like a nightmare. You don't want to do that. You hate that. That every time you do that, you hate it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And she's healed, and she'll do the same for me. She'll be like, what do you. It's often with my family, I'll go like, well, you Know, and my. Yeah, I shouldn't say that, but it's not like, oh, God, you know what I mean? I'm worried they won't, they'll think that she keeps me from them, but the truth is she just helps me realize, like, have a boundary. For example, when I said, I just saw them in October, I have no memory like that. I don't work in time like that. Val has to go, you saw them two months ago. And I'll be like, right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And so she helps me in that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And yeah, she's really good at regulating me.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, yeah. Ari does that for me also. He'll say, he'll remind me. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Ari Shafir.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Ari. No, wait. He's like. That's a comedian, right? Yeah, that's a. He's. I can, like, sort. I think I can picture his face.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But maybe I'm thinking of the wrong one.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to describe him. I don't know why. Okay.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

That sounded like the worst burn. It would be impolite to describe him, but that's not what I meant. He's a very, very funny man and a good man. And a special. It's called Jew is on YouTube right now. I'm not making that up. I look to Katie. Katie, edit all of this out. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Here we are, the question. We're on your spirituality, and we're going to stay there. But I am curious if you, if when your mom died, did that give you closure or did it, Is everything the same? Does she still loom in your consciousness in a similar way?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Well, I mean, certainly not when she first died. I mean. Yeah, no, it was not by any means. She died, and then I'm relieved and can finally be myself. And what I, you know, it was really, really.

[Pete Holmes]

I think a lot of people might believe that, by the way. It's like when they die, they're gone.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, yay. Right? No, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't think that's how it works, is what you're saying.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, and, you know, actually, I, I, I think that last time I was on, it was maybe shortly after my mom died. I was in a really. I was in a dark place, but I don't think it seemed like one. You know, I don't, I don't think hindsight Dark. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I, Well, I always think it takes, like, three years to know where I was at any time. It really kind of takes that perspective. Like, oh, God, Yeah, that was now from where I am now. I kind of know the extent of what was happening and just knowing. I mean, I was. I was really deep in eating disorders and had a lot of alcohol issues during that time. And yet it was just like, I think I was kind of showing up me like, oh, I'm having fun. Like what? You know, it just was so funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too, whenever it was.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was also. I hadn't stopped drinking yet.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Probably hungover and all the things. Yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, I was so self conscious about it too. I was wondering if that was kind of why I was feeling that. Of like, I really want to show up as myself and not be, you know, not have that kind of. The, the how I presented before was just so inauthentic to what I was actually feeling at the time. I'd like to be able to show up as myself at any given time. This is something I talked about actually in therapy where she was like, oh, but don't, you know, don't discredit yourself and recognize that you're a decade older and a decade of working on yourself further and you know, have some self trust. She kind of encouraged me to have. So I try to remember that. Yeah, yeah. But no, it was not. It. It was really. It was really heavy for a while. It was really, you know, of course, painful and complicated. All the things that you, I guess, expect grief would be. And then I actually found out in. I found, this is, I guess, a spoiler, but whatever. I found out that my dad wasn't my biological dad a year and a half after my mom died. And that was sort of the thing because my first therapist had suggested that my mom was abusive. I quit that therapist because I didn't want to. Want to believe that. I didn't want to, Yeah, I didn't want to do whatever work that entailed. It was just intimidating. And then, and then little like I found out the thing about my dad and then I thought, well, who. If my mom didn't tell me that, like, who was she really? That was just sort of, as I see it now, the final straw. Is that. Right? The last straw. The final straw. The straw that. Yeah, there's.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the last straw.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

A lot of straw.

[Pete Holmes]

Most of human history, we were fucking with straw. So a lot of metaphors about straws. Not so much anymore.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And I, and I, and I, you know, I just. That there was something to that that just made me think, okay, I gotta figure out. I gotta figure out kind of who I am separate from. From the, the, you know, these People intentionally kind of distancing myself from. From my family. Not saying I gotta figure out who I am separate from my family, but like, these people who are my family. I have to figure out who I am separate from that because I can just get caught in the undertow of this and the. The. And the. The baggage of the past where I can kind of just start taking accountability for myself, you know, And I could get. I. I was really caught in blame and anger for a while of how. How dare my mom not tell me this about my dad. Her. I can't believe she did this. This is ridiculous. Now I have to deal with all this. Who am I? Why didn't my dad tell me sooner? Why didn't my grandparents tell. Just so pointing fingers toward everyone and. And really, really angry. And I think I'd been carrying that anger for a long time before I even knew those realities. There was something in me, I think, just from growing up the way that I did, where I was just angry, you know, just had that. That unprocessed, unexercised, unfelt anger, I guess. You know, I was trying to suppress it for so long, and then I really just kind of felt the anger, you know, a lot and for a while, and then kind of started feeling what was underneath the anger, which was just so much pain and disappointment.

[Pete Holmes]

And they say anger is pain in disguise.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That I didn't want to believe for a while when my therapist had told me that, like, that there's stuff underneath the anger, I thought, because anger, so much better.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's more empowering and it's.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's motivating it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's cool. There's literally a whole genre of movies.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, but if John Wick was like, wait, I'm just mad about my dog. I don't need to shoot all of these people in the face. I'm transmitting my pain because I refuse to transmute it. That's a Richard Royer. If you don't transmute your pain, you transmit it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's great.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it good?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's really great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you just keep passing it forward.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Into four John Wick movies. There would be no franchise if he was just like, yeah, mercy. No one wants mercy. We want vengeance.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You know, And I think there's a part of me that wanted to. To hold on to the anger because I did think it was. I thought that I could be funnier with the anger. I thought that I, you know, the kind of roles that I played tended to Be very angry people, you know, and, and I thought, well, that works for me.

[Pete Holmes]

And also sad people, heartbreaking in your book, when they're like, like noticing your sadness.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the worst part of this town. It's like, she's so sad. Put her on camera. Like, look at the sadness in her eyes. It's like, it's like what the whole country thinks we are. And sometimes it is what we are and we're like, whoopsie, we're the worst.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Horrible. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But then I think once I really, I mean, I really started to get more honest with myself about the anger and the sadness and the pain, all the things underneath it and, and all my mistakes and the things that I, the, the blaming I had done. And I think that was when I started to actually feel some closure, which I think weirdly ties into the self forgiveness, which I didn't want to believe that could lead to forgiveness of other people because I think I just feared what that would entail. Like, oh, if I'm not. If I don't have that chip on my shoulder all the time, what does that even mean for who I am as a person? Like, if I don't carry that around, what will I be? And yeah, I mean, it took. Took years and I would say now I feel. I don't think there's ever going to be like full closure with it. I don't. I don't really know if that's possible, but I. I am able to just miss her and to not have it be a really complicated experience that brings up anger and wanting to throw things and then feeling like my whole day's thrown off and then feeling like I'm taking out on other people. Like I'm able to just have it be like, oh, I just miss her. Her, like literally.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so much better. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, I know I should be like, oh, don't cry. But it's so beautiful. Because to mask it and disguise it and to hide it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because sadness is also one of those feelings that we're supposed to be like, you know, but it's like, I'm so. I know it's not my place to be proud of you, but like, I'm proud of you as a friend.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, that's what the work looks like.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Because if you were just, if you were just you, like, I'd be like, oh, we just started the journey.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes, we just started the journey.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel the same.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I spent A lot of time being angry or. Or just bound with my. With my folks, really just being like, this sucks and. And really going at it hard and then just being, like, getting a little bit more honest.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

You don't. You don't read angry at all. Like, I don't pick up on any of. Of that.

[Pete Holmes]

It's working. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

But you know what I mean, how. I feel like. I don't know. I, like. I feel like anytime if a person's really angry, forward, I feel like it's just impossible to not kind of, like, lead with.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. It's the grapefruit in the fruit salad. The whole thing tastes great. No, I know what you mean. I appreciate that, because it's the same compliment I'm giving you is that, like, to process it. On the other side of it, there can be a calm recognition of wrongs. No denial.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But also not. No need to exaggerate them or to hold on to them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yep. Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you realize. I don't know if someone else has made this metaphor, but it's like you're. You're clinging to these rocks, and they're the rocks that are keeping you sinking in the ocean.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And, like, you don't want to let go of them because. Damn it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

These things happen.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it is, like, what is it? Forgiveness is giving up hope for a better past. I believe Lily Tomlin said that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Giving up hope for a better past. Wow. Lily Tomlin said, that's incredible.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Old Lil. And she said, watch Grace and Frankie. We sell dildos. So people are lots of different things.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

How do you feel with. So forgiveness? This was. This was. This was something that was really important for me to hear. I'll say it, and I hope it's helpful for someone, but I. Cause I had been so. So adamant about finding forgiveness for my mom, and that was sort of the goal. You know, I love a goal. I love a result. And. And the. The thing that I was going to therapy for was I'm going to find forgiveness for my mom, and then I'm going to quit therapy, and I'm gonna be good, and I'm on my merry way. And my therapist, Aaron, had said, you know, what if forgiveness isn't the goal? What if that's not what you're aiming for? What if you just kind of, like, gave up on the idea of forgiveness? And that was, I mean, transformative. Like, I remember just kind of bending over myself and really collapsing and feeling now, as I see it, What I imagine when people talk about forgiveness, what I imagine that weight is that's lifted when they forgive. I felt that by giving up. By giving up the idea of forgiveness.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say not to over spiritualize this, please? Because you. You are mercy. Like, the ego forgives. Your true self is just made of mercy. The ego loves or has special love, but your true self is made of love. Is love. So that surrender. Very smart. Who's this therapist?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Aaron Mason.

[Pete Holmes]

Aaronmason.com McCurdy. That's the promo code, but that's good therapy right there.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, it was. I mean, wow. Yeah, it was like. It was a moment that I'll never forget, and it really changed my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, let's note that as a. The time. Sorry to commercialize this, but I'm like, that's a good little clip. Just because sometimes people don't watch the whole episode.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Just this clip. Yeah, that's really good.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. I have to pee, but I'm gonna hold it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. The story of you holding your poo as a background actor. Again, like, if you. If you have kids. Do you want to have kids? Good.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I. I don't question. I don't. But I'm open to my mind changing, and I recently have been kind of thinking. I think. I don't know, maybe I. Maybe I will. There's like a weird.

[Pete Holmes]

My friend Chris just said to me, he goes, I don't believe in planned pregnancies. He's like, just. Just see what happens. I guess that could be a controversial statement, but. But their baby wasn't planned, and. And they're rolling with it. And I'm like, do you want to have another one? And they're like, we don't plan. Yeah, it's like, I like that.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I hear what you're saying, and, yeah, it's not something to. That seems loaded. It would kill me if Leila thought I was like, yikes. It's just. It's a big thing. It's a big thing. That's all I'm saying. For sure, it's a big thing. But when reading your book through the lens of a parent is like, this is. I can't handle the thought of Leila holding her poop in. It's just too much. Now we're getting into pity. I'm not trying to pity you. I'm just like, the thought of kids. Kids.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Too much.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Sure, sure. No, no. And I. Yeah. A lot of. A lot of. A lot of parents have said Things about how. Yeah, they've. I love. I love hearing from parents who have. Who have read it and.

[Pete Holmes]

And, yeah, believe it or not, even though it's this, like, troublesome tale, is it too late to put that on the book? A troublesome tale. Pete Holmes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And it has a picture of me. Why is his picture on the book? It is. It. I think it will help people in big ways and little ways. Just. Parent better be more aware, more conscious. Any memoir written from that age is gonna help people go like, oh, right, these are people.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

These are people.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

They're not purse dogs. Okay, let's roll. Let's. Let's close. Is there anything you didn't want to say? I mean, that you did want to say that you didn't get to say any area that you felt I cut you off or something?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, no, no, no. I feel. I feel good. How do you feel?

[Pete Holmes]

I feel great. But that can sometimes be the worst sign, really. I'm like, it was fantastic. And then I don't read comments and stuff, but people sometimes be like. Like, I remember I thought the Charlie Day one was so good. And then I accidentally saw the comments, and they were like, this host needs to shut the fuck up. And I was like, yikes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, God.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they're not wrong, but they're not right, either.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Do people comment on. Is it YouTube or. Where do people comment?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that'll be on Instagram.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Okay. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why I'm not. I don't. I don't do it anymore. I occasionally check my messages, but, yeah, just the verified ones. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Maybe I'm not. What's your favorite breakfast cereal?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Just to cleanse, I'm gonna say Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's the right answer.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

What's your number two? Because that is just the right answer.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Reese's puffs.

[Pete Holmes]

Jesus Christ. Those are exactly.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What? Are you serious? Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Oh, my God.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Favorite breakfast heroes came up on a zoom recently, and I felt like, such an oddball. Everyone was, like, talking about. I mean, there was, like, Special K was mentioned, which I just thought is.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, not that person. That's a cry for help if they're like, I love Special K. I'm like.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Special K when I was.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you special okay? Are you okay? You're not okay. Like, are you in a. That's, like, blinking erratically to tell the FBI. I don't. I am safe. My favorite cereal is Special K. Do not Worry about me. Do not send rescue. The FBI would be like he said, special K, we gotta move. Swarm. Swarm. Special K is good, but so is Total. Get the fuck out of my house. You know what I mean? We're not here to talk about Total. Total's toasted. It has a nice toasty taste. Crispix. If we're gonna say like, a basic bitch cereal, that's the sort of, like, hexagon. Yeah, it's good. Strangely good. But the correct answer is, I'm thinking.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Of the flavor of Wheat Thins, but the shape of Crispix, and I don't like.

[Pete Holmes]

Crispix is more of a corn.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Wheat Thins, no checks. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Crispix is a. Is a cracker.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Wheat Thins are a cracker.

[Pete Holmes]

Wheat Thin is a great cracker. Don't get me started.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

What's the Shredded Wheat one with the sugar on top? Is it Shredded Wheat? Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Are they Frosted Mini Wheats? You might be thinking.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yes. Those are so good.

[Pete Holmes]

Also love we. These are the addict cereals. These are the ones that give you.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

The most, like, a layer of sugar on top. Yeah, totally. Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Cinnamon Toast Crunch is like, we know what you want. Yeah. But Wasabi Peas is a breakfast cereal called Frosted Mini Wheats. Like, it's the most, like, experience.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a narrative to it. Those last ones are super soggy.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, God. One Christmas, I gave Val here at this house, I gave Val. It was a big box and it was just five cereals.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

She loves cereal.

[Pete Holmes]

Everyone loves cereal. This is what made this gift genius. It's the gift you didn't know you wanted. You open it up and there's just five, by the way. Steal this idea. Five sugar cereals. We. I think we ate all of them in, like, three days. Like, we just housed them.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Do you not have sugar cereals on hand regularly?

[Pete Holmes]

In fact, I'll go ahead. I'll straight up judge you. If I'm in your house and I see Count Chocula, I'll be like, okay, all right. Grow up.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's literally me.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm wearing I and what?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I'm wearing a dinosaur cardigan.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. No, you never grow up. I'm full of shit in so many ways. I'll judge it, but it's probably envy and it's probably scapegoating, because what I'm doing is binging, like, I'll buy it and eat all of it.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, that's what a decent person does do it in the shadows. He's a Dracula for count sake. So, yeah, just having it and occasionally eating it. But I couldn't have it in my house if I had Sin toast Crunch in my house.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I have cinnadeust that I put on my coffee every morning. I do whipped cream on top of my coffee and I do the cinna dust on top. It's so good.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my Jesus. Cinnadust.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. I have a thing with food because I had such a difficult relationship with it for so long that I have no food rules. I eat whatever I want whenever I want.

[Pete Holmes]

Food rules.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. No, like I'm gonna not have this, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Good for you.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah. And I just, I have a half the time a very childlike relationship with food that's really important to me. And then, you know, and then yesterday I had a salad and a green juice from Earth Cafe and I feel like I'm. I literally have that when I want that and when I don't want that, I completely don't have that. And it's. And it feels. Yeah. I love food and I love my cinnadest Every morning doing so good.

[Pete Holmes]

See, that's Cinnadust is forgiveness and earth bar. No offense. That's, you know, that's like having the right amount of. Hey, mom, you could have done better. You know what I mean?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But the extremes in either direction can be so dangerous.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

And the balance is for me with alcohol. Like I can't just like sometimes have alcohol. So you need to know your limits. But I can sometimes even eat some cookies.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Really? So is that your. Your relationship with alcohol is that it's very.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's. It's out.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's out completely.

[Pete Holmes]

Only because Ghost of Christmas present.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you give Pete a handle of vodka, I'll be like this every meal. Like every meal.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And again, it's that wanting to be alive and. And there's. I wouldn't change it about me in the world. It's the same guy that buys Val five boxes of cereal or has conversations like this. It's like let's more and more the two hour podcast.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Let's go like.

[Pete Holmes]

Like that. So I've learned like you that balance. I'm not like fuck addict Pete. He's the worst. Addict Pete is why I got good at stand up or why I get good at writing. You need compulsive behaviors sometimes.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Show me somebody that we all like, that we all know about Michael Jordan or I'm trying to Think of somebody who hasn't been scandalized. Yeah, I was like Michael Jackson and. But you know, what I'm saying is, like, they all had compulsive behaviors.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, I had.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the end.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like, you know, I also have to pee. Last question. Well, wow, this has been such a great episode. I didn't get to any of the. Like that post that says, die UFO ghost, nap or vice UFO ghost.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Wait, what. What post are you looking at? Oh, there. I see.

[Pete Holmes]

But we'll just do the last question, which is better than all of those. Can you think of a time in your life that you laughed really, really, really, really hard? Maybe when you're a kid, maybe recently with Ari Shafir, your boyfriend, Frankie Muniz. But like, some, like, crying, laughing, and it doesn't have to be a good story. I always like to take the pressure off. It's just like, who are you with? What happened? Did somebody fart? Somebody usually farted or fell down.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, I remember this from last time. I remember. I don't think I had anything last time either.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The either is the tell. Then let's do this. Ever see a ghost?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Ever see a ghost or a UFO.

[Pete Holmes]

Or something you can't explain? Ever have a psychic tell you something and it completely comes true? Ever have a prophetic dream ever almost die?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

No, I don't. I don't think I almost die. I don't think I've had any of the. No.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, here's a better one. We never get to this one. Oh, tell me about a great nap you took. You have any, like, best nap of your life in a weird place where it's perfect?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I've recently. I've never been a napper. I used to really not. Like, I used to not be a good sleeper and thought it was a waste of time and really was so weird about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you wake up in the morning? Well, that was a waste of time. That is the funniest way to start a day. I literally did nothing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's how I felt. That's literally how I felt.

[Pete Holmes]

I could have been doing anything. What a waste of time.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Truly hard on myself about sleep. Like, just. It was. Yeah, but I. I love sleep now. I love, like, a good nine hours. Like, ten hours is great.

[Pete Holmes]

You're cinedustin.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, I love it. And I've been napping on. I've been doing a lot of travel and I've been napping on airplanes. There's no real story here, but I.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that you can nap on an airplane.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

And I love a nap where I drool. When I drool, it's a really, really good. Good. It means I'm very comfortable. I'm really, like, deep in it. And I've been drooling, napping on planes a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that you're like, I better get this out quick, because he is going to talk about drool. I can't wait. I'll nap on a plane and I'll wake up, and it's so uncomfortable and so unnatural. And you're in a chair like you're visiting someone in the hospital. It's the only time you sit in the chair position. Hospitals and planes. You're in the chair position.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

That's so true.

[Pete Holmes]

You wake up and you're like, I didn't even nap. And I'd feel my mask, and it's wet. And I'm like, you nap?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You wet mask?

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I wear the mask. I don't care about COVID I just want to know if I know Jeanette. I think the hardest laugh might have been this episode. We laugh so much.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like we. I'm just complimenting us. We talked about your book, but not. Not directly.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I really appreciated how we talk about it. Like, I felt. I felt really like. Like this was fun. And I felt engaged, and I. I didn't revert to a sound, but I.

[Pete Holmes]

Didn'T see you do it once.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The answer. The capital A answer. Oh, let me get the answer. Oh, God, I'm so glad. I'm proud of both of us. But here at the end, I will plug. We'll plug it in the intro, too. But the book is called. It's not called I'm glad my mom is dead. Don't call it that. It's. I'm glad my mom died, which is very different.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

It's so funny. People do. I'm glad my mother has died. Like, I've seen so many different.

[Pete Holmes]

My mother wrote a porno. It's wet. That's a different piece. Podcast. Yeah. No, it's hard. It can be hard to hold in your head, but it's. I'm glad my mom died.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's a great audiobook because people listening to this love listening to things. Great performance. It's also just a great book. Book. Check it out. And anything else you want to say.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

I am just so happy to be doing this with you. And thanks for having me.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it was awesome. Truly one of my favorite episodes. And I think around the holidays, people are going to be needing this one.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

People gonna be needing.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

My therapist said this is when she gets her biggest uptick in appointments. Appointments these two weeks.

[Pete Holmes]

Facts. What was her name? Aaron.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Aaron Mason.

[Pete Holmes]

Aaron Mason. Aaron Mason is my literary agent, actually.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

So edit that out. I'm just kidding. Aaron mason. Check her out.com McCurdy and I don't know if you remember from last time. We have the guests say keep it crispy.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Keep it crispy. I remember because I didn't remember. I didn't know then. And I was mortified because you were a big fan. Yes. And I could not believe that I didn't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Here we are. And we to this. Make it right. Yeah. Well. Yeah. That's your camera.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you so much.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Thanks.

[Pete Holmes]

We could have talked for nine more hours.

[Jeanette McCurdy]

Oh, my God.