Josh Ruben #3

Summary

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You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: Josh Ruben #3

October 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

The third sit-down between Pete Holmes and multi-hyphenate comedian, actor, and director Josh Ruben is a classic "silly one," packed with improv, voices, Hollywood inside baseball, and some real insights into the craft of acting and filmmaking. The conversation, peppered with character work, impressions, and meta-jokes about the entertainment industry, gradually transitions to thoughtful reflections on directing horror movies, the psychology of actors, and the cathartic function of horror in culture. Mixed throughout are tangents on psychic readings, family, and the weirdness comedians carry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy, Industry Weirdness, and Impressions

• Opening Banter & Impressions (02:00–14:00)

  • Josh and Pete launch into freewheeling bits, including riffs on Alec Baldwin, Gareth Reynolds’ Jay Leno impression, following people on social media, and a running bit with "Invisalign."
  • Hilarious inside stories about meeting Philip Seymour Hoffman and the anxiety (and pride) of doing impressions in front of your idols.
    • Quote: "He was like, well done. Like, shook my arm like Shakespeare. Well done. Well done." — Josh Ruben on meeting his idol, Philip Seymour Hoffman (06:20)
  • Commentary on the new etiquette of following spouses in the entertainment world.
  • Impressions become a recurring motif, with playful debates about whether it’s “okay” to impersonate certain people.

• Residuals, Industry Struggles, and Mailbox Money (07:48–08:53)

  • Running gag about “mailbox money” (residual checks), the randomness of how actors get recognized, and the mercurial nature of fame (e.g., "Make Some Noise" vs. a whole career).
  • Industry meta-jokes about the fall of platforms like Quibi or Super Deluxe.

2. Directing, Acting, and The Art of Managing People

• Challenges of Directing (12:32–22:17)
  • Josh shares the learning curve of being a director, especially when handling “salty” (difficult) actors, and the subtleties of “manipulating” actors into necessary blocking for shots.
    • Quote: "I just. I'm still learning... and I'm starting to get good at manipulating actors into doing blocking." — Josh Ruben (12:40)
  • The contrast between authoritative directors (like William Friedkin) and a softer approach, often using humor to make suggestions or diffuse tension.
    • Quote: "I disarm with humor, which I think Mike Nichols actually did. If it starts to get weird, I'll just start singing Happy Birthday or something." — Josh Ruben (13:49)
  • Anecdotes about working with tough, detail-oriented actors like J.K. Simmons—managing their depth of preparation and nitpicks, and whether such attention to detail is a facet of their greatness.
  • Pete reflects on acting, coaching vs. learning on the job, and why some actors demand textual justification for lines or movement.
    • Quote: "It's so embarrassing to have learned so much about acting through acting." — Pete Holmes (14:55)

3. Medical Mishaps & Celebrity Lore

• Bob Odenkirk’s Heart Attack and Pop Culture (16:41–19:04)
  • Conversation about Bob Odenkirk’s on-set heart scare and the (possibly cursed) symbolism of Peloton bikes, referencing moments in media that impacted real-world company stocks.

4. Horror Filmmaking, Tropes, and Cultural Resonance

• Living With Horror (Behind the Scenes) (33:07–44:44)

  • Pete (via “Irina wants to know” segment) asks if saturating oneself in horrific imagery, as a director, has a psychological cost. Josh admits to being spooked alone in New Zealand, living in a big, quiet house after days of shooting.
    • Quote: "I was just kind of staring off and picturing this like, crudeson like, image of, you know, the killer from my film staring back at me." — Josh Ruben (34:19)
  • On the escalated impact of horror films after having kids.
  • Josh clarifies his preference for “gateway horror” (e.g., Joe Dante, John Carpenter, Scream) over “torture porn.”

• The Function and Mechanics of Horror (37:00–45:04)

  • Horror films provide catharsis and empowerment, especially to the marginalized and "othered" (queer, BIPOC, or simply “weird” or bullied kids).
    • Quote: "We watch something that's... usually normal people survive horrific situations... it's so cathartic." — Josh Ruben (38:07)
  • Pete and Josh discuss the “rules” of horror (referencing Cabin in the Woods, Scream) and how clever directors plant setups early for later payoffs.
    • Quote: "The thing that saves you can't be something you haven't seen before. The audience hates that." — Pete Holmes (44:47)
  • The ongoing obsession with horror is linked, not to cultural hopelessness, but to the satisfaction of seeing ordinary people overcome, or at least survive, chaos.

• On Directing Tropes and Editing (58:00–65:07)

  • Pete inquires: How do you keep genre tropes fresh? Josh explains the science of suspense — “lulling” the audience and then springing the scare in a rhythmically surprising but inevitable way, sometimes letting “luck” happen on set for the best reveals.
    • Quote: "The scary stuff is such a science... you're lulled into a sense of normalcy and complacency... and it's the asymmetrical moment... that's the secret." — Josh Ruben (58:23)
  • Editing as creative salvation: letting collaborators reshape moments, even cutting huge sequences into tight, energetic montages for pacing.

5. Representation, Comedy in Horror, and Personal Stakes

• Catharsis and Representation in Genre (47:27–50:03)

  • Horror is important, in part, because it lets all audiences, especially "outsiders," live out power fantasies: survival, revenge, triumph.
  • Josh talks about his own experience as a chubby, lonely kid bonding with queer and “othered” horror fans.

• FOMO and the Premise of Heart Eyes (56:53–57:45)

  • The killer in Heart Eyes embodies the bitterness of being a single person besieged by “coupleness.”
    • Quote: "You have to do that. It ends up being about something else... There’s a little bit of like, yeah, I fucking hate Valentine’s Day." — Josh Ruben (57:31)
  • The slasher is a “mascot for anti-Valentine's Day.” The film uses genre to explore feelings of exclusion and resentment in a heightened, comedic way.

• Actor-Directors in Horror, Comedy as Preparation (68:28–71:22)

  • Pete notes the trend of comedic actors (Peel, Cregger, Ruben) excelling at horror, theorizing it has to do with their attention to behavioral detail and subversive instincts.
  • Josh credits comedians’ ability to recognize minutiae in behavior, creating “safe spaces” for actors while also capturing authenticity.
    • Quote: "We get. We know the specifics of behavior... None of us get caught trying to be funny." — Josh Ruben (71:09)
  • Emotional sensitivity is presented as both a curse and a directive superpower in art.

6. Psychics, Weirdness, and Personal Rituals

• On Consulting Psychics (73:39–75:52)
  • Pete and Josh bond over their genuine belief in psychics, swapping stories about uncanny specific readings. Josh describes searching for emotional insight or affirmation from his psychic, Sunny.
    • Quote: "Her name is Sunny, she's our age, and she's actually intuitive... there's something wrong with your aunt's foot... you'd be like, whoa." — Josh Ruben (73:48)
  • Pete tells a story of a psychic nailing the nickname “Bug” for his ex.
  • Both agree: even as comedians, “something’s going on.” Josh offers to share contact info.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Philip Seymour Hoffman’s Approval:
  “He reached across like a mob boss in a big puffy coat... Well done. Well done.” — Josh Ruben (06:20)

• On Disarming Difficult Actors:
  “I disarm with humor... if it starts to get weird, I’ll just start singing Happy Birthday.” — Josh Ruben (13:49)

• On Learning by Doing:
  “It’s so embarrassing to have learned so much about acting through acting.” — Pete Holmes (14:55)

• Catharsis through Horror:
  “We watch something that’s... usually normal people survive horrific situations... it’s so cathartic.” — Josh Ruben (38:07)

• The Anti-Valentine’s Slasher:
  “There’s a little bit of like, yeah, I fucking hate Valentine’s Day... make him a bit of a mascot for anti-Valentine's Day.” — Josh Ruben (57:31)

• On Comedy-Horror Directors:
  “None of us get caught trying to be funny... if you’re a good actor, you’re not going to play a funny scream.” — Josh Ruben (71:09)

• Belief in Psychics:
  “Her name is Sunny, she's our age, and she's actually intuitive... There’s something wrong with your aunt’s foot.” — Josh Ruben (73:48)

• Keep it Crispy Sign-off:
  “What would you say? Keep it crispy, my friends.” — Josh Ruben (77:33)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Comic Improv, Industry Riffs, and Impressions: 02:00–14:00
• Directing and Working with Salty Actors: 12:32–22:17
• Bob Odenkirk's Heart Incident, Industry Sidebar: 16:41–19:04
• Horror Movie Craft, Film Tropes: 33:07–45:04 & 58:00–65:07
• Editing Realities, Montage Stories in TV/Film: 65:08–67:34
• Comedy/Horror Director Discussion: 68:28–71:22
• Psychic Consultation and Closing Bits: 73:39–77:41

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Tone

Consistently silly, quick-paced, and meta, the episode includes both unguarded honesty and affection for creative weirdness. It’s playful (“knock, knock, who’s it for?” becomes a motif for both horror and pure improv). Beneath the bits are real insights into performance anxiety, managing creative egos, the meaning of horror, and the belief that weirdness is a universal, not-so-secret superpower.

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For New Listeners

This episode distills the essence of "You Made It Weird": blending improv, vulnerability, show business wisdom, and joyous weirdness. Even if you’re not a horror buff or an industry insider, you’ll leave it with a new appreciation for creatives who carry “secret weirdness” — and the catharsis of facing your monsters, onscreen and off.

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Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

Lemonade.

[Josh Rubin]

You made it Weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Podcast Announcer]

This is the return, maybe the third or I think, maybe fourth return of one of my favorite people in the world and quite possibly the funniest person alive, Josh Rubin. He is from college humor. He played the Joker in our Batman Bat canned videos. He's been in lots and lots and lots of things that I've done, but he's also done millions of things on his own. On college humor, on Dropout, on Make Some Noise. On Dropout. He also is a film director. He did Werewolves within, which is one of my favorite modern horror comedies. He also did Heart eyes, death to 2021, and scare me. So he talks a little bit about directing in this episode, which I'm super excited about. But mostly we were due for a silly one. He just makes me laugh for about.

[Pete Holmes]

An hour and a half.

[Podcast Announcer]

And I'm so glad you're here to laugh along with us. Not much to plug up top on my end. I am on the road. I'm going to be in Cleveland coming up. Los Angeles on November 1, Chicago on November 6, followed by Pittsburgh, New York, New York on November 14, New Jersey on the 15th. I'll be in the mill at the Milwaukee Improv, the Brea Improv, North Carolina, South Carolina, Miami Improv. We had to move, but it's still on the calendar. Royal Oak, Michigan, and Madison, Wisconsin. All of Those are on peteholmes.com I'm so loving this tour. I hope to see you out on the road. And in the meantime, you enjoy my chat with the incredible Josh Rubin.

[Pete Holmes]

Get into it.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my God. I'm doing a video pod. Vita Coco. Do we have to say, hello? It's Vita Coco. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing. Where's my mailbox money? It's not hilarious anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought you were, like, not sitting down because there's Vita Coco.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, no, you definitely can't. Okay. Hi. Nice to see you. Oh, my God. Who is that dude who did Isosceles as Jay Leno?

[Pete Holmes]

Gareth.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Gareth Reynolds.

[Josh Rubin]

I just followed him the other day.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, I saw. Saw these. I saw Celis.

[Josh Rubin]

I saw Celis. What kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the key line is, what kind of triangle? Vivi. He doesn't know. That's to me, Gareth. Gareth is a genius and hilarious. I know people throw genius around a lot, but he's really so special.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And to me, what makes a funny guy and like, that extra oomph is what kind of triangle Did Eve. Because he's going, I saw these. I saw Thalieves. He just thinks he's saying, I saw Saldiv. I saw Saldiv.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my. Then he goes, what kind of turtle are these? The archaeological piece of finding. You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Of finding the finding.

[Josh Rubin]

Finding the detail. Finding the detail.

[Pete Holmes]

Use that.

[Josh Rubin]

Wait, are we already ready?

[Pete Holmes]

We can't not.

[Josh Rubin]

We can't not. Yeah, it was on the rack. Thanks so much for following me. Give on Instagram. I have Invisalign now.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean when you went to his profile, it was a nice follow back. Go to somebody's profile to follow them.

[Josh Rubin]

And it's like, yeah, you know, it's. You know, it's weird. Meeting a few people in the industry is like, oh, man, great, I'll check you out. And they follow your wife, but not you. That's an interesting. That ever happened to you?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry, are you following my wife?

[Josh Rubin]

You following my wife? And then you get a little Harrison Ford about it. Like, you follow my wife. Oh, that's Phil Hasida Hoffman. It's like, yeah, I was in Frantic. I was in Frantic. I won't find my wife. You know what I mean? Oh. Anyway, Jack had the long walk. I think it's just going to be. It's just going to be an interesting. It's like most of the stuff that we. You can't. You can't. Can you do it anymore? You know? Can you do that? It's like, you do that. I have a. Can you do a Guillermo del Toro? I don't think so. Creatures. You know what I mean? I don't think you can.

[Pete Holmes]

Why not? No Guillermo.

[Josh Rubin]

I don't know. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know Del Toro's voice.

[Josh Rubin]

Well, why not? It's. It's out of affection. Creatures. You just have to say, creatures. Creatures. Creatures.

[Pete Holmes]

Creatures.

[Josh Rubin]

That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that it?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think I've heard him speak.

[Josh Rubin]

I love them. Yeah, but it's like, can you do it anymore? I don't know. I love them.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll do it with you.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. On the count of three. One, two, three. I love them.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you do have Invisaligns.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, I do. And they turned a little yellow and they were like, keep them in 24 hours. And it's like, really? Wow. Yeah. So you smile. It's just kind of like. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. Hey, did you see Dead Reckoning Anyway? You know what I mean? Wow. It's great. You just. You just attach yourself to a plane. You know what I mean? Rents. Do you know what I mean? That wasn't his line in Big Lebowski. It wasn't his line in Big Leowski. I know. Yeah. Did I tell you I met him like, two weeks before he passed.

[Pete Holmes]

Well done.

[Josh Rubin]

And he went, well done.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell the story again. We need it again.

[Josh Rubin]

A guy I think he did you aaa with saw that he did an impression. He's like, I bet Phil would love that. They had. They had an event at the Jane hotel where the two celebrities for maker Studios, I think were Snoop lion, formerly now Snoop Dogg. Anyway, and he's Phil Hoffman. He's back the rizzle. And he was like, okay, it's time to meet Phil and the guy like this wild, wild ass dude. Whis me upstairs, pass Phil's table with it where it's like all these, like, New York blue collar folk, like, you know, yule Vasquez and stuff. And he's like, you have to sit here. Just wait. I think he was a little coked up. I mean, he should have been in group. Anyway, finally, it's time. Like, 10 minutes later, I'm sweating balls. I finally get to meet my idol. I go up to him, the whole table lights up, and they all. They all in like a chorus of points are like, that's the dude that does you. And I was like, well, here's the moment. And I sit down. I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it loud?

[Josh Rubin]

It's. It's very loud. So it's loud. I feel like I'm in 25th hour. So I'm sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Idol.

[Josh Rubin]

And he goes. He reaches across like a mob boss in a big puffy coat because, you know, texture. And he's sort of hiding, you know, himself. And he was like, well done. Like, shook my arm like Shakespeare. Well done. Well done. And I was just like, in the middle of my praise for my idol, I was like. And I just want to say, you know, I'm really doing it. Just. I just want to say, just, I'm doing it, Spike Lee. I'm doing this out of Admiral. You know, imitation is a form of flattery. And then the dude who brought me there is pulling me away. So he's like, okay, sorry, we're at capacity. It was pulling me away mid sentence from my idol. And then later.

[Pete Holmes]

You didn't even do it for him.

[Josh Rubin]

I didn't even got. Well, I mean, he already knew. I think everybody in his circle was sending him videos.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. So I don't know if you'd like.

[Pete Holmes]

Well done.

[Josh Rubin]

I think the. Well, well done. I think the rumor is that he saw it and he's like, I don't. I don't like that there's someone out there who does what I do and is better looking. It's very sweet. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who said that?

[Josh Rubin]

I don't know. That's evidently what he said. Through. Through like the grapevine in New York.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he said that.

[Josh Rubin]

Evidently. He said that. Yeah. I don't like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Better looking.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Better watch out. I followed your wife on the gram. You know what I mean? How much Hoffman can we do, you know? I mean, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Hundo percent Hoffman. Wait, are you sensitive? Like, no more Hoffman.

[Josh Rubin]

I don't know, man. I don't. What can you do anymore? Here's. What can you say? Sag. Here's the thing I've been listening to.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's the thing.

[Josh Rubin]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Lena Dunham.

[Josh Rubin]

You know what's not hilarious? Mailbox. Money. You know, I. Yeah, it's just like.

[Pete Holmes]

What's mailbox?

[Josh Rubin]

It's just when you get residual. It's like Kevin Spacey's probably like, I wish, you know, I did better. You know what I mean? Because now it's. You know what I mean? You gotta open an envelope and hope you pay for groceries. I'm sorry, but you got it.

[Pete Holmes]

Space. Said that.

[Josh Rubin]

I mean, no, I'm just imagining, you know, when you sweat a little bit after they don't invite you back.

[Pete Holmes]

Whenever these comp. Like a big company goes bankrupt, they're like, can you believe wework went bankrupt? And I'm like, you know, they keep the money. Right? You know what I mean?

[Josh Rubin]

Did he. I don't. I don't know how. I don't know how it goes. I don't know how it goes.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't give it back.

[Josh Rubin]

No, no, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

He does.

[Josh Rubin]

Just like. Well, I guess I could liquidate, you know, the Maryland house.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly what he's like.

[Josh Rubin]

He has real estate.

[Podcast Announcer]

He's got real estate.

[Josh Rubin]

He's got real estate. Bought a Hummer. I bought a Hummer, if you know what I mean. Anyway, I sure hope I can go to Trader J's and, you know, Not. Not. That's a good.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good space.

[Josh Rubin]

Well, don't interrupt me when I'm talking to myself. Put.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, what is he saying? Glenn Gary Glen Ross. Go to lunch.

[Josh Rubin]

Go to lunch. Go to lunch. Jack Lemon.

[Pete Holmes]

Go to lunch.

[Josh Rubin]

Go to lunch. Go to lunch. Will you go to lunch? I See you standing over the grave of another dead. Why did you talk about that?

[Pete Holmes]

You could have been good in that. But that's Malkovich.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Go to lunch. Go to lunch. Go to lunch. Am I Russian, French, or just born in Santa Monica? I don't like. You know what I mean? It's just like, I see you growing up in Japan, living in Santa Monica, having a little bit of education in England. England.

[Pete Holmes]

Would my brother do Jack Nicholson and the Departed going, I'm from the mean street to South Boston?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Of course. Not at all. Someone who grew up. Up mostly out here, I think, anyway. My sister. Your mother? My sister. Your grandma. My sister. Was that even my line? I don't know. I have Invisalign. I saw the least. Anyway, I. Yeah, I'm just gonna keep doing him, you know, because. Can I have the Vita cocoa or is it just here?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's for you.

[Josh Rubin]

What's this? A shot as well.

[Pete Holmes]

I gave that to you when we did blah, blah, blah.

[Josh Rubin]

Reclaim your brain. Oh, Magic mind. I've heard of this. Does it work? You're telling me. If I go to coca cola.com, backslash magicmind, I find out if I.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Not yet. I'm sure it's coming. We did that when we did. Here's the thing.

[Josh Rubin]

What's it called? It's called here's the thing. You.

[Pete Holmes]

I said, here's the area.

[Josh Rubin]

You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Make some noise. When we did make some noise, I brought you Magic Mind. Because I'm always thinking, how does the Jeff Rubin get his clock ticking?

[Josh Rubin]

Turns out real quick, it's Josh Rubin. So, Jeff. So. Excuse me. Excuse me. So. So. Excuse me. So, Jeff Rubin. Excuse me. I need to start saying excuse me a lot more. I don't think Jeff Bridges ever did it. Excuse me.

[Pete Holmes]

But again, absolutely no flush of anxiety because I. It was just a total.

[Josh Rubin]

It doesn't matter.

[Pete Holmes]

46.

[Josh Rubin]

I'm missing. I'm messing up, see. I'm missing up all kinds of words all the time.

[Pete Holmes]

Mailbox. How are you, my man?

[Josh Rubin]

I'm good. I'm good.

[Pete Holmes]

How are you shocked at how many people see make some noise?

[Josh Rubin]

It's crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

People come up to me and go.

[Josh Rubin]

Get recognized for it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They go, hey. And I'm like, you're the make some.

[Josh Rubin]

Noise guy after your whole career. Yeah, Yeah, I.

[Pete Holmes]

They did it then because when college humor was like, we're gonna go subscription based, I think a lot of people were like, bye. See?

[Josh Rubin]

So you. Later. You know what I'm Saying but. But super deluxe, though. But for real. Budweiser.com like one of the things for me is to be Quibby about to work in all the ones that fit Verve, you know what I mean? What was it? Verge, Verve.

[Pete Holmes]

You're going to go for a Quibby. You're going to try to quib it. College humor quibbed it.

[Josh Rubin]

Did they quib it? Oh, they big breakfast it. But it's no longer big breakfast now it's dropouted. I don't know what they did. I think the only time they ever had is what I'm trying.

[Pete Holmes]

It worked like what Quibby dreamt about. College humor did. And I'm not saying that to be a company man. I. I don't. You work with them a lot?

[Josh Rubin]

I did.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm.

[Josh Rubin]

I do.

[Pete Holmes]

You do?

[Josh Rubin]

I do. I do. Baldy. Yeah. I got a couple dogs and I don't know why I got a couple of dogs, man. Yeah, Dropout's good. Few bucks a month and, you know, you do a couple of noises and. And the kids love it. Can you imagine if he was on just Three Old Dogs? Just him, Ron Perlman and, you know, Bill Sadler. Just. Okay. Just trying to do space work. I actually think I would do okay. I think it would do okay. And Bob Reich.

[Pete Holmes]

But you get recognized for that.

[Josh Rubin]

It's only that it's like I've had a whole life and they're like, you're the seagull dude and I don't care.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you'll be fine with that.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you've moved into the scarum ups.

[Josh Rubin]

I have. Can you believe it? And I'm not even that good at it.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean?

[Josh Rubin]

I just. I'm still learning. It's hard, you know, I'm good at all the. I'm good at juicy character stuff and I'm starting to get good at manipulating actors into doing blocking.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, what do you mean by that? Oh, it's really to move how you.

[Josh Rubin]

Want them, getting them to move. I'm sure you've seen some in your professional life. I. It's so interesting. That is what I'm most fascinated about is how can you convince some. Like, it's usually a salty male. It's usually the dudes between their early 30s to their early 60s. So most actor men who are like, but why would I walk to the door that. And sometimes if I get that energy, I'm like, oh, how do I. How do I.

[Pete Holmes]

You're doing a scene and for the shot, you need them to go to.

[Josh Rubin]

The Door or whatever it is. So, like, I don't have William Friedkin's like, I guess gusto, where he's like, you're gonna walk in Tommy Jones, go to the wall, take a drink of bourbon and sit in the big chair. Yes. And then they're all just like, yeah, okay. I'm just kind of like, what do you think if maybe we. And they're just like, roll over, bitch. Like, show me your tummy. Like, that's a real fascinating new piece of. What I do is like having to convince you need to be the best.

[Pete Holmes]

Actor on the set.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

But I act like, you know what you're doing.

[Josh Rubin]

Part of it is performance. So I disarm with humor, which I think Mike Nichols actually did. He would just. He would just like, you know, if there's some kind of an argument or tension, like, what I do is I start singing Happy Birthday or something. If it starts to get weird, I'm like, well, that's just a happy birth. Like, I'll just start to actually diffuse with clowning in a way. And everyone just like, yeah, you want.

[Pete Holmes]

Them to snap out of. Well, someone's getting sucked into the trope of the actor resisting a blocking direction, which I've.

[Josh Rubin]

Which I've rarely had, like, resistance. Like Shia LaBeouf esque. Like, well, I don't think we should do that or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

There's the buff.

[Josh Rubin]

The. I don't know. There was a video moving around. He was just. Him and Francis Ford Coppola and Megalopolis didn't see it and what? Yes. And he's just like, I just think I should walk over here and Francis Ford Cobalt, like, God bless him, he spent 150 million of his own dollars. You just like, well, I don't know if that's. That's. I mean, I'm. I don't know what director walked in and, you know, decided to make all these decisions, but go for it. I'm like, oh, man, that is my nightmare. As someone being like, what if we just redo everything? You know, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Look as someone who. You're blossoming as a director. I really feel like I'm starting. It's so embarrassing to have learned so much about acting through acting. Like, I have to kind of like, I know, but I feel like there are people who do it the other way. Like, they study it and they. Oh, yeah, torture. I meant coaching. They have coaching and all this stuff. So I feel a little embarrassed to those hard working individuals that I'm right.

[Josh Rubin]

Because you never walked around doing animal exercises. You were like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna. You're like, I'm not gonna be a tiger. Like, I'm just gonna open my mouth a little bit, purse my lips, and just like, listen.

[Pete Holmes]

You're absolutely right. I rolled up a skateboard and was like, you guys shooting a movie and just, like, was in the scene.

[Josh Rubin]

They just devolved Duvalled you. I think that would happen to him too. He's like, devolved. I just wanted to be a farmer or whatever, and it was just like, you're great. You got devolved.

[Pete Holmes]

I hope I got devolved. But, like, with full respect to those people. So I'm. I'm conceding this very special gift I was given of being able to learn through acting. I'm. I'm still. When I'm on a set and there's an actor that's going like. I just don't know why I would say that I still have this, like. Cause it's on the page.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah. That's probably what Ray Romano does. I mean, it's here. It's right there. It's right there. You say. You walk in and then you say. And you say, we can all go home. If you do it. We can get home before the Taco Bell. A new one. Hi. Yeah, it's me. I even do my own stunts. I broke my leg.

[Podcast Announcer]

Ray, we haven't been rolling.

[Josh Rubin]

Huh?

[Pete Holmes]

We haven't been rolling that whole time.

[Josh Rubin]

Does it anyway, He's a nobody.

[Pete Holmes]

What is going on with Odenkirk's voice? It's kind of like a. Is it Midwestern? It's like I. Listen, buddy, we're watching Better Call Saul.

[Josh Rubin]

I was like, I think he's an Illinois boy. I guess so.

[Pete Holmes]

Illinois back your bag. Yeah, I'm a nobody. Or.

[Josh Rubin]

Or we could do a thing where, you know, I punch everyone. You know, I mean, I have no idea.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Did he. I think. I think Odenkirk's heart exploded on a peloton.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

On set, like, he was a real peloton addict.

[Josh Rubin]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not being paid by peloton to say that, but it did hurt him.

[Josh Rubin]

That's why I gotta drink Vita Coco.

[Pete Holmes]

Had he been hydrated with Vita Coco. And believe it or not, I'm not being paid to say this, but Vita cocoa will stop.

[Josh Rubin]

But it's the deadly combination of magic mind with Vita Coco that will eightball your.

[Pete Holmes]

But he would have them. Somebody told me this, that he had a peloton on Stage. So he had one in his dressing room, but then he would also have one on set. So in between scenes they're just changing the setup or something. And luckily he was doing it on set.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Cuz he fell off the bike.

[Josh Rubin]

Okay, so it wasn't like mid take. He wasn't like better call. Ha. It was like he was better call. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who are we going to?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Saul Goodman.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Put an amp on Pan. They don't. If there's something strange in the Widowmaker.

[Pete Holmes]

The peloton is known officially as the widow.

[Josh Rubin]

My God. And if you just push a little bit harder, you don't know. You might not make it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you know, their stock went down. When in Sex and the City, the new Sex and the city, I think Mr. Big has a heart attack on a peloton.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the stock went down. That's how we think. We're so savvy and like facts based on.

[Josh Rubin]

No, it went down.

[Pete Holmes]

Had a fictional heart attack on a peloton.

[Josh Rubin]

I can't go near that. It's cursed. It's cursed.

[Pete Holmes]

Meanwhile, there's guys smoking and they're fine.

[Josh Rubin]

Absolutely. Yeah. Give me a Kent King. I'll bike all night. I don't care. You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

But what I'm saying is, had Odenkirk gone back to his dressing room and worked out bad for. Bad for Bob. I love Bob.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This isn't talking out of school. I think this is a known story.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. And now he's killing it. Doing, Doing stunts. Man in your 60s. Pretty rat.

[Pete Holmes]

Is he in his 60s?

[Josh Rubin]

I don't know. I just made that up. Hey, Siri, is Bob odenkirk in his 60s? Yeah, I guess so. You know, I mean, just like a different Siri.

[Pete Holmes]

Like.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It looks fabulous. So, yeah. So you have to. You're not. You're a director who doesn't like confrontation.

[Josh Rubin]

I, I like directing. I, I freeze up often with challenging. So like, I worked with. I'll just. I, I say because he was great. J.K. simmons, for example. Salty, wonderful, sweet. But he's like.

[Pete Holmes]

Or anybody scarier.

[Josh Rubin]

And he's also. And also very scary. He's like, I won an Academy Award. So it's. He was just kind of like. He was totally right about this one thing. It was so funny and innocuous. It was about like the time because he. No one does more research than him. Especially on Roku's Die Heart, which I directed A Heart to Kill with Kevin Hart. Like Kevin's like, I'll say whatever, but he's just like, the microwave shouldn't say that. Like, why does it say that? Because it takes this long for my character to do this. So if he dies at this point. Spoilers. No one's here. Why would the microwave say that? And I was just like, my soul. Like, I looked at my DP and she was just like. Like, everyone in the room was just like. Like, I just. And it wasn't even that bad. All you really need to do is. That's a really good point. What do you. What do you think? Or what would make it better? You just have to kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Fall back on the. Yes. And yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But sometimes when I hear to, like, when she's directing, she's like, you just got to be like, fabulous.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, everything starts with like, great. And then, like, which, by the way.

[Josh Rubin]

Sometimes salty folks are like, don't grate me. Tell me why. Tell me what? Why can't. And I'm just like, tell me why. You know, like, why does it have to be that way? Like, I don't know why they all do. Why do all the salty guys have to do Backstreet Boys? But.

[Pete Holmes]

But there's not a lot of. Ray, we're saying there isn't a lot of you.

[Josh Rubin]

And right there in a lot of people. That's fine. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. There's like a. There's a book called. I'm not going to plug the book. It doesn't matter. They're talking about the story. He's doing stand up, and somebody's like, I would never go on stage. And shoes like that. And let's say they were shoes. And he goes, if they notice my shoes, I'm not funny. And that. That's how they notice the microwave. Yeah, the movie sucks. We've got way bigger problems.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, but.

[Pete Holmes]

But then this is what I'm trying to appreciate, because jk, obviously. JK Simmons. Very, very, very good actor.

[Josh Rubin]

Very good.

[Pete Holmes]

Very, very good actor. And is it. Is it that attention to, like, nitpicker, glitch, catching shit? Is that. And also ran. Is that running aside his greatness or is that somehow holding hands with his greatness?

[Josh Rubin]

I think that's. Hold it for him. It's holding hands.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, it's.

[Josh Rubin]

I think there are other people who are like, ah, I'm gonna challenge you. I'm gonna challenge you. Yeah, because you're visual.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, we have that in the writers room. The writers that would go, like, they did that on Community. I'm like, shut up. Let us kick it around for a while.

[Josh Rubin]

Like, it's not a try to blue sky it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but I. I am. The best actors you've seen probably take it pretty seriously.

[Josh Rubin]

I think so.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is what I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm just now figuring out. Like, prepare. Think about the character journal as the character. Try to imagine what they might be like. I know. That sounds so obvious.

[Josh Rubin]

Have you done it? Will you do it a little bit? Hey, that's good when you're carrying the whole thing. I mean, one time I opened a book and just wrote, the old man until Bo came in, was like, it's dinner. He's like, jeff, your photos. Your photos are ready. Kate's here. Kathy Bates. Katie. Katie's here. She's here. She's here. Katie's here. Get under the bed. Let's pretend we're not here. Let's surprise her. Kathy Bates walks in. She's like, hey, hey, everybody here. Hello. I'm feeling miserable. And they're just like, boo. And she's like, I'm 77. Don't. Don't jump out at me. I'm Kathy Bates. I am so sorry. We thought it'd be fun. It's nice to see you. And they all jump. Chime in. Just. It's nice to see you. And then they're just like, it's really nice to see you, too. I'm gonna get the camera out. You know what I mean? They just kiss. You know what I mean? And then. All right, spaghetti's on. No, they grill. They grill. They don't do noodles. Yeah. Why can I, without any effort, picture.

[Pete Holmes]

Jeff Edenbow with the huge eyebrows kissing Kathy Bates.

[Josh Rubin]

Just. She's just. She just. About Schmidt. She's just like, oh, I'm gonna get in that tub.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, full nude.

[Josh Rubin]

Absolute full nude.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolute love about Schmidt.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh. Oh, my God. Me too.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a great movie.

[Josh Rubin]

Dear and Dooku. Come on. I mean, we did it. We did it. We brought it. We brought it back. Dear and Doo Goo. My wife cheated on me, and I pissed everywhere. Is that what he did? I just remember something about the place being unclean. But anyway, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Weirdest commercial break of all time. But our recorder, which has really never happened in 10 years. But Katie caught it right away. It died very suddenly.

[Josh Rubin]

I did that big shout out to Katie for catching her.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's Dave Matthews.

[Josh Rubin]

Dave, huh? Yeah. I just want to do a quick big shout out there, kitty. This number 42 goes out to Katie for being younger than 41. Wow. What was the one technical. I just want to say thank you so much for everybody. Boy Tinsley on the drums, Stephen Murphy on the hips. And my best friend Jack. Nicholas said, Jack, come out. Yeah. I want you to tell everybody, I don't even know what you're saying. Don't even know what you're saying. That's my man, Jack Nicholson. He's a few good man, this man. A few good man. Wow. Yeah. You know, he'd all up here going, hey man, I'm. I'm Batman. Yeah, that's his joker. All right, whatever. You know one thing I love, I'm going up South Africa. Number 41. Why am I here? I need to. I need to sit. I have to sit. I have to sit down. Why don't you do one of monologues? Monologues from the new School. Why don't you do one of them new school acting training monologues? Knock, knock on the door. Who's it for? It's. It's me, Jack Nicholson. The fucking audience goes, oh my God. So with that, we'll go to the mid rolls and we'll be right back.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry for the abrupt cut there, but we had some technical difficulties. But after this, we'll be back with more.

[Josh Rubin]

It's Magic Mind, my friends. I'm in on my.

[Podcast Announcer]

What is that tiny green magical elixir that me and the guests are always drinking on this show? Well, you probably know if you listen to this show, it is Magic Mind. Athletes have Gatorade now. Creators have creator aid. It is a matcha based drink, which means it has matcha nootropics and adaptogens that help you fight off stress. That is why Magic Mind's slogan is do more stress less but put more. Basically, it is flow state in a bottle. It is the perfect mix of up but also down to put you right in the middle, right in that flow state where you can get more stuff done. They say five to seven hours of 30% more productivity after drinking. I actually love it because it lasts about five hours because I drink them before shows and it does not mess with. With my sleep. You can fight off procrastination, brain fog, fatigue and some ADD symptoms. I can attest to that myself. And we've worked out a money back guarantee with them. Any first purchase will be refunded, no questions asked. If it doesn't meet your expectations and we have a code that gives you a discount of 20 off. Try it. Go to magicmind.com weird and use promo code Weird at checkout for a limited 20 off your first order. That's magic mind, my first favorite dot com. Don't say magic mind, my favorite. Go to magic mind dot com weird. Use promo code weird for 20% off. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Apollo Neuro. A revolutionary wearable that you probably often see me wearing on my wrist. Val wears hers on her ankle. That helps you manage stress naturally without drugs. It is on your body, sending soothing vibrations into your nervous system in the language that your body can understand. It is basically like a wearable hug that can improve sleep and boost focus. You can even wear it clipped to the inside of your shirt. So it is incredibly subtle sending these gentle scientifically backed vibrations. It is ideal for those seeking a holistic approach to wellness. The Apollo Neuro fits seamlessly into any routine. Using this vibration therapy to reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus and help you recover. It is drug free and non invasive and this is not woo woo. I absolutely swear by this. It is science backed, developed by a neuroscientist and supported by clinical research. It is versatile, trusted by experts made in the USA and they even offer a money back guarantee. So it is risk free with a 30 day return policy and a one year old warranty. So try to get this digital hug on your body. Get an Apollo Neuro. They sell out fast. Now is the time to buy. They even have 0% APR financing. Go to ApolloNeuro.com weird and use code weird for 60 bucks off and a free sleep band. That's a P O L L O N E u r o.com weird.

[Pete Holmes]

How fast did we turn our back on Dave Matthews? Remember when they dumped their poop? Do you remember?

[Josh Rubin]

And we were all like poop, poop. Who's it for? It's for the fisherman. Sorry, I guess I'll pay the fine. What do you think? The last thing that fisherman says, just like the last thing that poop saw was just a fisherman going hi matey. You know what I mean? Just a tour group I think, oh my God, Chicago. I think a tour group of pirates going, oh no dear. Oh, I just wanted to look at Chicago. You know what I mean? Is that a pirate stock pirates tour? Yeah, the old pirates tour of Chicago. Yeah. Over there is bad Bodenkirk's old apartment over there's. That's where Bat Bodenkirk's from. Over there's, you know Captain Phillips. It's a pirate tour. Was she from Chicago? Probably duh. Bears. Oh, I'm on a peloton but one thing. Help me. But. But. Yeah. No, for real. Bell time went under. But ain't it crazy how. Why am I doing Jack Nicholson's face but tacking like I'm one of the bears?

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, that's a fun game.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Jack Nicholson's face.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Hey, man. Hey, man. Where do they get a load of these toys? Or De Niro face. Where do they get a load of these toys? Where are they gonna load of these toys? It's not that great if you're just listening, which is why you have to go to coca cola.com backslash vitacocomagicmind to find Pete's latest episode. Thank you so much. I'm Casey Kasem. No one knows who that is anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

The Lego man.

[Josh Rubin]

The Lego man.

[Pete Holmes]

He looked like a Lego man.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, he did.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Tell me more.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, just kind of Lego man haircut.

[Josh Rubin]

He had just had that little.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's my m. Here's my. Here's my mom.

[Josh Rubin]

I saw at least here is my mom and my friend. Come on, South Africa. I don't even know what he's saying. I don't even know what he's saying. Dave, open your mouth. Articulate. Well. So sorry, Mom. Not saying you don't articulate. You're never going to get what you want. I already have a million dollars. And I told the world the crowd's on his side. Always. Always. The crowd is. Yeah. No, no. You're going to be on my side now. Oh, wow. My mom just took control, exerted a little bit of that Alpha quality. Knock, knock. Who's it for? Mom's at the door.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying we all loved Dave Matthews. We all love Dave Matthews. And as soon as they dumped their feces onto that tour boat in Chicago.

[Josh Rubin]

Uh oh. Who's it for? Not for you. That was for the toilet, my friend. But the Taurus, they got drenched. Now my career's reaching. And here's Jack. N. What did you say? What did you say? He can't keep the note. What did you say? But. But everyone's just like. You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

They still loved it.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Knock, knock. Who's it for? No, it's okay. You need a little more. You gotta have more magic mind.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't blame the sponsor.

[Josh Rubin]

What were you gonna say about your mom?

[Podcast Announcer]

No, Well, I was gonna say my.

[Pete Holmes]

Mom would wonder this. So let's ask one for my mom in a segment we call Irina. Irina wants to know when you're directing a film like Hard Eyes, not to be confused with Snake eyes. Wow, wow, wow.

[Josh Rubin]

It's going to be a oner.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a oner. When we didn't even do that, that's.

[Josh Rubin]

One of the craziest things we could do. You know, I could buy a bunch of expensive glass for my house and then listen to Elvis and buy a crypt. Is that. That's my. I guess so. I don't know. Just like, he likes expensive, strange things.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The pool table.

[Josh Rubin]

I like expensive jellyfish. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What's. What's Elvis? What's that? Uhhuh. Yeah. Huh. You know what I'm saying? Leaving Las Vegas. But, you know, long legs, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to know. Irina wants to know. Yeah, Mommy, Mother would like to know. You're directing horrors, horror pictures. Is that heavy? Like you're watching take after take after take of a hole in a woman's face and the camera's pulling through that.

[Josh Rubin]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That must have been hours of your life.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Does that flash through your brain a lot?

[Josh Rubin]

God.

[Pete Holmes]

Is there a cost?

[Josh Rubin]

There's no. Well, the only cost, when I was shooting hard, I was living by myself in New Zealand. And they're just like, man, we'll give you a director. You might as well have two level house all by itself.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, it was like a four bedroom, nine bath. And I'd go home.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, so everybody gets more than one bath?

[Josh Rubin]

It. Well, I did not. You're the director. You might as well be comfortable. I mean, I had probably had choices, but anyway, I was just like, I like this. It's walkable. And it was dead quiet, obviously, when I get home. And there was this long, dark hallway. So the cost was sometimes just kind of staring off and picturing this like, crudeson like, image of, you know, the killer from my film staring back at me. And I was like, it feels strange.

[Pete Holmes]

So you would spook yourself.

[Josh Rubin]

I totally would. Yeah. I totally would. My.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I mean, like, if you watch a horror movie, yeah. You go to bed that night and.

[Josh Rubin]

You'Re like, normally I'm fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Really.

[Josh Rubin]

Normally I'm fine. But also I don't watch like, you know, the real torture. Torture, pointy stuff. I like. I like a Joe Dante.

[Pete Holmes]

I like a Joe Versus the Volcano.

[Josh Rubin]

I like Joe versus the Volcano. Great horror.

[Pete Holmes]

What is Joe Dante?

[Josh Rubin]

Joe Dante direct. He's a good, very good genre filmmaker. He did Gremlins. Gremlins 1, Gremlins 2. He did. Those weren't three films. Gremlins.

[Pete Holmes]

The cereal.

[Josh Rubin]

Gremlins. The cereal. He did Gremlin cereal. He did Gremlin guar. Gore squares, Gremlin tar. No, he. But that's herbs. He. So he's like a wat. A very watchable, almost like a gateway horror. Yeah, yeah. The most intense horror. You know, I Like an Ari Astra film. It gets a little, you know, esoteric for me, but I like, pop it on, get a pizza, not get too sad, and I get too. Too freaked out. Like a John Carpenter.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

He doesn't get too crazy, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

What is that? Ari Aster 1. You. When you said mother. It wasn't mother, though.

[Josh Rubin]

Hereditary.

[Pete Holmes]

Hereditary.

[Josh Rubin]

I am your mother. When Toni Collette was just like. Just a. Just phenomenal monologue. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I tried to watch that.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, yeah, I get it.

[Pete Holmes]

Regret.

[Josh Rubin]

I get it. Get it.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, I think horror can really help us shine a light. Like, we have nightmares, right? And it seems like nightmares are like our subconscious way of being like, you need to look at this. We need to, like, deal with this.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here it is in a compelling way. And horror movies. My theory was if I watch this, I'll have. I'll achieve some sort of peace, some resolution. Like my subconscious won't need to give me weird dreams because I'll just watch this Ari Aster movie. Then I'm watching it and the head out the window, and I was like.

[Josh Rubin]

I gotta go now. Did you watch before or after you had children?

[Pete Holmes]

It was after I had.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, that'll probably. That Bet that's a piece of it.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. Definitely. Absolutely.

[Josh Rubin]

It's a lot of younger kids who are like, I can't watch. Wait to watch Art the Clown just tear all those women in half. And then they're like, had. They have kids. And like, I am gonna make a juice. I'm gonna just make a juice. And I think I'm good.

[Pete Holmes]

But yours, I haven't seen Heart Eyes, but it looks. There's Wheelance.

[Josh Rubin]

There's. There's some.

[Pete Holmes]

This isn't. This isn't that moment where I'm like, you're making violence. I love violent movies, but it doesn't seem like it's just a fun. It looks like Scream.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, it's got.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's got like.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Kinds of films I, you know, I really liked. They're gore that just kind of, you know, makes some people squirm, but not so much. It's like. Well, it's 14 minutes of watching that stomp, but a weird Illuminati reference to the.

[Pete Holmes]

The fire extinguisher scene in that movie where someone's Getting brained with a fire extinguisher.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. What was that?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't remember, but it's comically long.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my. Horrible.

[Pete Holmes]

It actually, it's so horrible, it stops being horrible because you're like, well, this clearly is fake.

[Josh Rubin]

No one ever hit that. You wouldn't even hit him that many times. Something really illuminating that was articulated horror movies is that it's. We. It. They're so successful, especially now with the horrors of our world, is that we watch something that's. We watch usually normal people survive horrific situations.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

And we leave the theater going, oh, that was so cathartic to watch, you know, Mary and her daughter get away. Escape, you know, pumpkin head or whatever. Yeah. So it allows. Just give us a. Oh, I thought.

[Pete Holmes]

You were gonna say now we watch movies where they don't get away.

[Josh Rubin]

No, that's. That's. I think what the. What the great. Why they're often so successful is, oh, thank God we got to watch him survive that. That horrible thing. Which is why folks, usually folks of color, too, are the biggest audience for people like me, for people to make harp. Because they're like, their lives are already. They're already living at this horrific. At the horrific degree. They're like, yeah, I want to watch people make smart choices.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Josh Rubin]

More than anything else. And goddamn right. I. Boy, do I love especially watching some watching David beat Goliath, basically. And it's super, super powerful, and that's my talent. It's also really, really important for me as another white, Caucasian male filmmaker. Not enough. There aren't enough of me. We need more to hire people who look like our audience because there aren't enough, you know, aren't enough folks who representation themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that was the Scream trope. Well, was that in Scream, but the black guy always dies first. God, I don't remember the rules of horror.

[Josh Rubin]

Yes. There was a dude. There was a cameraman. I think in Scream was like, oh, man, Bummerville. But, you know, it'. There were really progressive dudes like George Romero, who, you know, even though his character in Day of the Dead talked with a really problematic Jamaican accent, he lived. Spoilers. And, like, it was just. I don't know. It's lovely.

[Pete Holmes]

That's interesting. I feel like one of the reasons I avoid. Even though our friend Zach Kreger made it, but, like, I won't watch weapons is I'm just like, I'm too scared of, like, children.

[Josh Rubin]

It probably would be. It'd be tough, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you watch it?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I loved Dead. I. I heard.

[Josh Rubin]

And it has that cathartic. I think it does. I know it will have that longevity because it's got that cathartic ending. And we live in a world where, you know, we're. We're constantly being bullied and the bullied with, you know. Spoiler alert. Like, the bully gets their. Like, they get what they deserve.

[Pete Holmes]

That really big in movies these days. Like, every villain, even in. I just watched the Naked Gun. That's more my.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's like the villain is Elon Musk, and you're just like, yeah, totally. We're just going. Like, I even watched. What is it? It doesn't matter. You see more and more takedowns of situations in our lives.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Taking place in comedies, but also horror.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, yeah, definitely. But that's a lot of eat the rich stuff too. Of course. You know, it's a little too gilding Lily for me. But I do love. It's like, you look at everything now. I'm like, oh, yeah. This is why they were so impactful. Even way back when it went in the 60s and during the war and all this stuff, horror films, it was like, oh, there was all this horrible stuff going on in the real world. And this was representing what was going on. Even Joe Dante's Piranha, which is just about Killer Fish, was like, no, it's kind of Vietnam War.

[Pete Holmes]

I just watched that.

[Josh Rubin]

Did you really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I like older movies.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't find old Matt McCarthy and I in the green room before we go on. Always watch Shudder. We'll watch Showbots drive in.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, delicious.

[Pete Holmes]

So I like the comedy.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Mixed with, like, a really. I wouldn't even. I actually. I hope this is interesting to you because you're the guest, but, like, I'll watch something like Piranha or Slumber Party. And I'm watching it, and I'm like, that person. Maybe it's the time. But they're not acting in a way that we act. Like, we act in a way that's like, I always do this with Al. I'm like, I'm gonna start acting now. You know what I mean? It's like acting happening. And I watch these 70s movies that are supposedly cheeseball and bad or Campbel, and I'm like, that performance was right on. They don't even. You'll never see someone in a 70s horror movie, like, finding their angle.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, where they look good, there's, like, unflattering, natural.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Long. They didn't often have a lot of money. And it was often just a lot of these actors who really wanted to be, I don't know, Brando or whatever. And they were like, that way. Why? Or they'd just be themselves. Like, what? I don't know, Billy. Like, you. You can go to sleep and you'll be fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

And I'm just like, wow. It's actually pretty natural.

[Pete Holmes]

It's very natural. That's exactly what I mean. You'd think what would make it campy is the acting, but it's often not the acting.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, the campy stuff comes when the director's like, big eyes. You're okay as you're being strangled. Bigger eyes. So they're just like, you know, whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

You enjoy the effects.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I never really thought of. I always forgive. Forgive and forget. I thought the obsession with horror these days was because we're so, like, hopeless. That were like, we might as well just have people screaming and dying. But you're saying. And this is from someone who's not really watching these movies, you're saying the catharsis is the getting away.

[Josh Rubin]

It's the dopamine hit of watching people who, you know, are not strong or normal or not. The. Often the smart. They're not superheroes. Not superheroes making smart decisions. You hear a lot of people in the horror community talk about, like, I just wish she would have run out the front door. Why do they always go up to the stairs? And so, you know the catharsis of seeing someone go, oh, they went out the front door.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

And they ran and they ran out into the street and they tried to flag someone down. Then, oh, no, they got hit by a car. Because, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Josh Rubin]

So you're just like the. The.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the cabin in the woods where it's like, why doesn't he jump his motorcycle over the ravine?

[Josh Rubin]

And it's like, subversion.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he did.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, he did. Vroom, vroom. Everyone stand back. I mean, I'm Australian, but you know what? I talk like this playing an American. But anyway, Hemsworth. You know what I mean? Do you think as he was on the motorcycle, he was like. He was going, hemsworth. You know what I mean? Joss Whedon's like, I don't think you should say that. And he's like, you're not directing. It's actually Matt Reeves directing. Or is it actually. Oh, my God, I should know this. I should know who directed Hemsworth. Vroom, vroom. Oh, no. I'm like, the crow that got hit.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it does establish that at the beginning. Are there rules that you keep an eye out for? Like in Cabin in the Woods? Mild's actually pretty big spoiler here. Movie Cabin in the Woods. If you haven't seen it, jump ahead a couple minutes. I'm gonna give a tiny little spoiler. Turns out that the area that they're in is fenced in with an invisible fence that is discovered not when Chris Hemsworth jumps into it. But it's in the beginning of the movie. They go through the tunnel and a bird flies into it. Then about an hour later, he jumps into it. But I was watching Aaron Sorkin's masterclass Bradley, and he was talking about, like, the thing that saves. You can't be something you haven't seen before. You can't say, wait, the magic rope. That's right, the magic rope.

[Josh Rubin]

Of course. We got to use this thing we're talking about for the first time.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Josh Rubin]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Audiences hate that. And similarly, the device that you has to be in the beginning as well. The bird has to hit and fall. I'm sure they had a discussion. Doesn't that ruin it? Yes and no. Without it, you'd feel cheated. You actually want it to be kind of obvious that there's a force field.

[Josh Rubin]

But I wanted to get kind of obvious. And what's great about that movie is you've forgotten about the crow. By the time he's like, I'm gonna get us out of here. You're all going, great. He's gonna make the jump. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's gonna make the jump, man. Are you gonna go? Oh, get in here. We're watching Cabin in the Woods, Lloyd's favorite film. Dad loved Cabin in the Woods. He wasn't even alive. Bo, you don't talk like Jeff. I know. I'm in that lock. How do you think Bo Bridges talks? I don't know. Maybe like this. I don't know. Jerry Lawler. I'm the man on the moon. Who do you think you are, Randy Kaufman? But anyway. But. But for real.

[Pete Holmes]

But are there rules that you keep in mind like that when you're reading a script or what? Have you added things like that? Have you caught people breaking rules?

[Josh Rubin]

I probably have. I. I'm such a dense learner. So much about me when I read stuff, and I'm a slow reader too. Is it all just has to feel fun? I think about things I probably shouldn't. Shouldn't talk about prioritizing, but I think about, like, what Is an actor selfishly gonna love. Yeah. To do. But also, like, how am I gonna not run it into too many situations where I have to. Where I won't know the answer to the question about the timing on the microwave? Or I can see it clear enough in my head that I'm not gonna freeze on set? I truly, honestly think, like, is this a test I can pass?

[Pete Holmes]

You're analyzing the script as a part of your life. Like, can I direct this?

[Josh Rubin]

And will this make me miserable to spend a year doing this? And do I understand? You know, because I'll probably never direct Apollo 13 Part 2 because I'm not that smart. You get consultants and stuff. That's what Ryan Coogler did on Sinners. You surround yourself with. With people who know what's up. And that'll be the thing to do when I make a smarter film. But I definitely read, okay, what's an actor going to love to do? Am I going to pass the test for any question anyone might answer or ask me? And. And is it going to have commercial potential? Which is also something that, you know, might be a little taboo to mention? It's like, I love a movie you can rewatch. You know, I rewatch, I don't know, everything from Gremlins and defending your life to the burbs and Sam and pretty much anything Sam Raimi did. Because I try and think of, you know, what will be fun for. For your children's children to hopefully watch if there's still a world many, many movies and years from now.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's really interesting and very honest.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, I like it. I want to make sure I know, like, the definition to all the, like, the big words. Like, I'll just go through and be like, is this gonna be too smart for me? There's one thing I just read that has Wall street people in it or like, yeah. Traders and analysts in the financial world. And I'm like, you know what? I'm very scared of that piece of it. I don't understand. I don't. I have no toxic male trader types in my life. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm confident that I can get a consultant who will fill me in on the culture and make sure it's right. And make sure it's right, because there's. There's another piece of this film. I don't even know if I'll end up doing it or winning it or whatever. I understand. All the other stuff, all the creature stuff, all the, you know, it's a Horror movie. Yeah, all the drama stuff, but it's a. Really. Got really good drama stuff. So there's a piece of me that's like wanting to move into more adult films. Yeah, you know, you know, dirty films. You know.

[Pete Holmes]

Dirty pictures.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, real dirty pictures. You know, adult films. And there's another piece of me that's like, you know. Yeah. I still want to do like little creature puppet coming out of the toilet. Yeah. You know, you want to make ghoulies. I guess. But anyway. Yeah, so it's interesting. It's interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Was Ghoulies the one where I think they got.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, they come out of the. The pooper chud. Yeah. Chad, that's the. That's the sewer.

[Pete Holmes]

Different. Yeah, sewer. Well, yeah, the flush.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, flush. Ghouly and.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. And you enjoy it. It's not just what's. It's not just what's for dinner. Like you like doing the horror.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Cuz I grew up, I. I think because I was a kid. Now the more that there. There are. There's more investigation, interrogation to why horror is everlasting with. With networks like sh. Such and you hear people who talk about, man, it's great to see people survive these impossible situations. I was like, I think I love especially queer people, people of color, you know, othered folk. I was like. I was a chubby kid who didn't have many friends who spent a lot of time talking to himself, playing with action figures in the attic or whatever. And I would watch horror films and see the chubby kid fight the, you know, the things from the gate or survive the poltergeist or run out of the whatever and like make it like Goonies, you know. There was a kid, you know. Yeah, exactly. You know, I was basically Chunk and I was like, oh my God, junk rules. And then you get to watch chunks survive, you know, pirates and. And criminals and you know, these kind.

[Pete Holmes]

Of, you know, like do the truffle shuffle. That's all I got from that movie.

[Josh Rubin]

Come on.

[Pete Holmes]

Wasn't helpful.

[Josh Rubin]

Come on.

[Podcast Announcer]

Wasn't helpful.

[Josh Rubin]

Hey, that's not helpful. Yeah, it's pretty great because see, I get to watch myself in that film and go, wow. You know what I mean? Anyway, Richard Donner, were you there?

[Pete Holmes]

John C. Reilly did this podcast and he told this story that he was doing some play. If I was slicker, I'd remember the.

[Josh Rubin]

Name of the play, True west with him. With Phil.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, there you go. Yeah, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It was true.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, we were playing brothers. Yeah, well, I Don't. I don't think I sound like that. Yeah. I don't think Frank Held is a really good. Good John C. Rising. Yeah. I do wear a cowboy hat. Is it a fedora? Anyway. It's a Stetson. Anyway. Ah. It's me, Jesse Riley. I'm a great character actor.

[Pete Holmes]

He said there was a moment in. He is fantastic. There was a moment in that play where he was like turned away from the audience and Phil was playing the part in the front of the house. And he'd get this big laugh every night. Even though he's not saying anything. He's toasting bread. And he was like, what is he doing? He couldn't see it every night. Big laugh.

[Josh Rubin]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It swapped the rolls. He's toasting the bread. He doesn't get any laugh. What is he doing? Finally asked somebody watch that moment. Tell me what Phil is doing. Phil Hoffman. And what he was doing was he'd press the toast down and then he'd be waiting and then he'd put his hand over the toaster to see if it was hot and we'd get this big laugh. So John was like, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do it.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, I'll try it.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't do it.

[Josh Rubin]

I can't either.

[Pete Holmes]

And he did it. He put him down and he put his hand over it and no laugh. And he was like that. Phil's magic was like.

[Josh Rubin]

Got the magic.

[Pete Holmes]

They believed that he was a guy. The timing was just perfect.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

On why isn't the toast toast?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. He probably did. He probably did just like this. Before you put the toes in. Go. It's funny. Right? But. But John goes in the ground. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Well, okay. You know what I mean? Not as love him.

[Pete Holmes]

Let me ask you. Even without having seen heart eyes too scary. I. I bet I would love it.

[Josh Rubin]

I think you.

[Pete Holmes]

I loved where I was.

[Josh Rubin]

Thank you very much. You know. You know what the great challenge with hard eyes real quick. It's like Nora Efron making this movie.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Was like legitimately a Nora Efron rom com. And legitimately screaming.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Josh Rubin]

So that's what the chat. I was like. I'm gonna make one that doesn't shortchange other genre. So if you like a rom com like maybe even Val could watch or stand a little bit of it. Because it really is these two. These two people really like really me cuting. Yep. But. But they pop up anyway. Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, they start getting chased by a killer with artists.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Kills people on Valentine's Day.

[Josh Rubin]

I love a good slasher slumber party masher. Knock, knock. Who's it for? Hot eyes at the door. You just got slashed. To my friend.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm curious. Is there a message to that movie that is like love? There's something dark about love. Is that, like, you get into these situations and most of us are really, like, the biggest pains of our lives are from romantic relationships.

[Josh Rubin]

You know what I love about this? The specific. Oh, the Bridges brothers. You're not making me miserable. Is that a Kathy Bates? Anyway? It is. You're a dirty bird. Oh, Mr. Khan, I'm a number one fan. We are of you too. In front of everyone. You know what I mean? Just a huge wow. Oh, Neil, check out this threesome. We got the British brothers and Kathy Bass. Everybody take a check out out about like the kisses are giving him mic feedback. But anyway, for me, Hard eyes was exciting. Excuse me. But for me. But for hard eyes, I need to start saying excuse me. And again. Excuse me, but again. So one thing for me was that. Excuse me again. So for hard eyes, it just start. Really? Yeah. I bet Jason Bateman does that. Well, you know, the Bridges.

[Pete Holmes]

Showed up.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Hey, I'm also here. Well, knock, knock on the door. Who's it for? Hey, buddy. Well, I. One thing. Yeah. Oh, that's a pretty good kiss. Hey. Oh, wow. Jeff. Oh, wow, that's Jeff. Hey, Bo, why don't you. Why don't you lay. Why don't you lay one of me? Oh, okay. All right. I'm just. I'm just kind of measuring the kisses of the two. The two Bridges brothers right now. Yeah. And I think. Let me just try one more time. Let's go one more. One more time around the block. Let's go one more time. Yeah, we're gonna go one more time around the block. Bo is pretty good, but Jeff. Jeff tastes a little bit like that. What's that flavor? Oh, orange and cream. Oh, my gosh. Oh, but your orange and cream, I think I prefer. I think I prefer a kiss from Jeff. Thank you. But for me, heart eyes. Excuse me. Was. Thank you so much. Be. We'll be great buddies. Thank you so much, buddy. He calls the audience buddies because they can all be, well, buddies. You know what I mean? Terrible.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Josh Rubin]

But for me, heart eyes. Excuse me again. What? The thing that I loved is the specificity about who find those of us who find, well, who find couples excruciating. So part of it is I thought, ooh, it could be really fun to look at fomo, like, feeling like a third wheel and that. Or like when couples are so cute, it just makes you want just you have to do that. It ends up being about something else.

[Pete Holmes]

You kind of want to root for the killer in that there's a little.

[Josh Rubin]

Bit of like, yeah, I fucking hate Valentine's Day. There's so much like, you gotta get chocolate and what if. And you make us feel like shit for not being a relationship. So for to make him feel like a bit of a bit of a mascot for anti. Valentine's Day was really fun too.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, fun.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're a couple. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

And when you're setting, talk about tropes. I don't think there's any place where tropes are more at play. Maybe comedy. Comedy and horror probably tied for first.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Where we're going to close the Fridge. I'm old enough. You are, too. We're closing the fridge and the killer is there. Now we're closing the fridge and the killer isn't there.

[Josh Rubin]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, how do you tell. Knock, knock. Who's there? A psycho killer in a new way. How do you get that timing right? Is it in the edit or are you doing it shot by shot?

[Josh Rubin]

Like, that's the toughest part. I'm good at all of it, usually. But the scary stuff, really, it's so crazy. It's because the scary stuff is such a science. Like, there. There are moves still to this day and stuff that, like Carpenter did, where you'll follow one character into a living room and you're just kind of living with them. I think this is part of the secret. It. So you're lulled into a sense of normalcy and complacency. It was quiet and the radio's. You know. And now they're putting the popcorn in the microwave. And so now the sound of the popcorn and the sound of the thing. So you're just getting the sense of. Lulled into a sense of complacency and normalcy of what it is to be, you know, hanging out in your living room at night. And it's the asymmetrical moment. It's the irregular beat of something coming out of the cabinets.

[Pete Holmes]

And is it musical?

[Josh Rubin]

Is it, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you think there's a rhythm of, like, her footsteps?

[Josh Rubin]

Yes, definitely. In fact, who's it?

[Pete Holmes]

But it has to definitely subvert that. Or does it hit it on the beat?

[Josh Rubin]

The killer.

[Pete Holmes]

We're gonna show the killer.

[Josh Rubin]

You gotta do it on the beat.

[Pete Holmes]

I haven't. I didn't watch it, but I watched all the trailer. All the trailers. I'm looking for credit for spending six minutes on years of your life. I watched both trailers, but there's the great moment where they're on the carousel. What a great time to reveal the guy.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah. Is.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not trying to say you're not good enough to orchestrate that, but it looks like luck.

[Josh Rubin]

I was like, that was luck. The shot was luck. Sometimes it was luck. Sometimes it's like.

[Pete Holmes]

It looks so like a compliment. I was like, that had to be luck.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so good.

[Josh Rubin]

Sometimes you have to let this up. I feel like even I'm gonna try doing this in more films moving forward. I feel like really good movies let stuff kind of happen and let it get a little messy instead of micromanaging. I've definitely tried to, you know, it's like, you should all stand right here. Like, with werewolves. It was pretty awesome because I knew the tableau of the shot. Well, if you walk over here, everybody, I got to just announce to 10 great actors, if you walk this far, you're gonna be off camera. And if you walk this way, you'll be off camera. So you could do anything you want in here. And then I could let them. So if, you know, one person needs a little hand holding or one person wants to be let off the leash a little bit, I could kind of sculpt. But to let it go and see people do their thing, I want more opportunities to, like, why don't we just. Let me just see you guys do it. Maybe we even film it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

You know, because I think that's how, like, these, like, you know, Sidney Lumet and Bogdanovich and all these, like, greats would do it, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

You know what? Birbiglia. Another great eye roll.

[Josh Rubin]

Jk.

[Pete Holmes]

I love Braviglia. But what he would do is JK Simmons.

[Josh Rubin]

He'd be like, I get it. Oh, I get it. Is that JK all right? Me? No, it's not really. I think it's Buffalo. Buffalo Simmons. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm kidding. That Mike is great. I love Mike. He would set up the camera and have them do the scene 10 times in a row. Just over and over. Because you. If you watch something twice or something they're watching, you have.

[Josh Rubin]

It has to be messy.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's. So how do they get. How would you even. And he was like, I just did it 10 times. He wouldn't call cut. Wouldn't call action. It was like a little insanity loop.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh. So it's one long take.

[Pete Holmes]

One long. Well, he's in it. Oh, he's in the scene. So he's there.

[Josh Rubin]

Smart.

[Pete Holmes]

And they just do it over. And it feels so natural.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because they would never stop. They just keep doing it over and over. I wonder if that's.

[Josh Rubin]

Wow. If you were here, I'd be like. I'd turn him and go, like. Were you micro adjusting? Like, I wonder if he would, like, shout out a little like, hey, Darcy, don't do this on this take. And it was just. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

This next one, let's. Let's pace it up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So are you aware when you're looking for those scary moments of tropes, like, you have the. Totally. The knife going through the door. That's a trout. And.

[Josh Rubin]

And for that sake, I was like, let's just lean in. And it's great because when you're in the audience, I have them staying at the door so long, it's. No one would do that. You can hear the whole audience go, get out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Run. And it's so funny because I'm just like. And they turn to each other. Hey, hey. I just think that bomb, you know, it's like you still. It still gets you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Josh Rubin]

But it makes you squirm. And that was on purpose. But there are other great irregular things. Finding those irregular beats to, you know, freak people out are great. The editor has a lot to do with it, too. I lean on this dude, Brett Bachmann, who's amazing and great editors, will challenge you to. To be like, what if we just do this crazy thing you haven't thought about? What if we. What if we just break this open and try this at all?

[Pete Holmes]

Because if you're looking at that scene, you said you shot them on the door for a really long time. Being cute, driving the audience crazy.

[Josh Rubin]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That didn't work. You can always go in and just have the knife come through the door right away.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's really interesting. I know that's kind of obvious, but on the other hand, that's sort of the whole art.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Or the moment they shut the door, you could just cut the outside.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, you can cut it.

[Josh Rubin]

You can cut it. You cut the whole thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you do anything crazy like that? Did you cut big, expensive scenes?

[Josh Rubin]

No, but the ending, there's this whole kind of denouement thing, and that was where Brett came in, was like, I want to try some genre departure for this one and a half minute beat that feels like it's slowing down the audience experience in testing it. So I want to do. I just want to. He, like, basically made this almost musical but expositional sequence out of what was kind of a nothing burger. You know, not. Not on anybody but me. And it just brought all this infusion of energy to it. Yeah. So my big fear is if I can't get Brett on the next thing, or Patrick Lawrence, who worked on my first film, who I love. The scary thing is, I wonder if you feel this too, finding collaborators, like, collaborators like you that you trust.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Like another Katie in the future or another writing partner or whatever, that's a really scary thing for me. It's a producer. It's like, who are the unicorns? Who will trust you? You trust you. You could trust. Want to watch you succeed, not throw you under the bus.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

I'VE been very lucky thus far. You had some hand holding, but that's not too bad. But that's a scary thing, is like, well, when you get your editor, who. Who's the person who's gonna say, josh, let's break it open. Let's try something crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

So he turned a bunch of sequences into a montage. Basically, he.

[Josh Rubin]

He did this one. This one thing in particular with this one thing in the end that just brought in this infusion. It's one of many examples of great things Brett Bachman did. But that's. That's a scary thing. It's finding who are the collaborators you bring into your life, you know, so sometimes it's like you. The nightmare scenario, which I luckily haven't had to deal with, is you bring people in. You're like, I gotta let you go. I gotta let you go. I'm so sorry I got to fight you, or whatever. Like, I've never. Knock on wood. Haven't had that.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. On your way.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Haha.

[Pete Holmes]

You made me remember that in the third season of Crashing, I wrote all these scenes about what it was like to do colleges. And I was really proud of it because.

[Josh Rubin]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

It was like, cool. It was cool.

[Josh Rubin]

It.

[Pete Holmes]

It's kind of.

[Josh Rubin]

Did you. But did you shoot it?

[Pete Holmes]

We shot it. It didn't make the show, though. No. We shot for a week of me going to different colleges, getting all these tropes that I was, like, proud of it because I was like, nobody would be able to write this except a comedian who's done colleges. And there are all the things, like nooners in a cafeteria. I had a running gag where no matter what you said, you say, please just say my name last. Just say, ladies and gentlemen, peter. Don't. Just say. That is the last thing you say. They always say. The comedian today is Pete Holmes. He's been on VH1. Please welcome. Here he is. That's how they would always do it. So I had that as, like, a runner. And you would see it like three or four times. You'd see me putting ice in the sink and putting cold cuts, like, off the rack. Cold cuts. Not like deli cold cuts and, like, drinks in the ice. Making a refrigerator out of a shitty motel sink.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The routine of, like, what I would do with the. Just getting ready in a hotel room. All these things. I was so proud of it. And Judd, I think he was right, but it really hurt. Was like, this is. This is the beginning of the new season. This has to be like, shots. It became a Musical piece.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, like a. Like a montage showing how your life is just.

[Pete Holmes]

It became a week, maybe a week and a half of shooting became like, probably 45 seconds of film.

[Josh Rubin]

I've been like. I've been there. We shot 14 pages in a day. And for my first film, it was just Aya Cash and Chris Redd just. Just like, basically locked off in two with two different angles. And they were wonderful, and they were so exhausted, but they. It ended up being a minute and a half in the. In my first film.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Rubin]

And it was totally the right choice, too.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

Because it was just like, you can't watch two people talk for 14 minutes if it's not, you know, the most incredible thing you've ever seen.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, speaking of Social Network, you know that opening scene.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Where it's like you punch the phoenix? Yeah, that opening.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just two people talking.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. They.

[Pete Holmes]

I think they did it 40 times.

[Josh Rubin]

40 takes.

[Pete Holmes]

40 takes over and over and over and over and over. And I was like, I don't know, but proof be in thine pudding.

[Josh Rubin]

I suppose so that's the great. That's a great Legend of Dave adventure. You do it many times.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that true?

[Josh Rubin]

I saw. Suppose so, dear. One of the things date working with David Fincher. Oh, he had me. Hello. I did 50 takes, dear. And it's one of those things when you put your face in a cake and you kind of go, I don't want to do it anymore. And he goes, shut the up, Dave Affleck. I meant to call you Ben. That's the third Affleck brother, dear. There's Casey, Ben and Dave. Anyway, Argon, as in don't do it. But one day you're gonna do it again. Don't panic, Room. But for me. Yeah, I. That's. I mean, it really shakes you up. Oh, don't panic, Mr. Room. But, dear. Oh, wow. I can't believe you didn't do it again the way I thought you would. It's because I've broken you, dear. I'm David. Mrs. David Venture. Fire. I've broken you.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny, given how hilarious you are. You and Zach. Craig. Craig directing and making horror movies. And you're both incredible comedy performers.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What do we make of that?

[Josh Rubin]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something about your sensitivity to performers. Or, like, do you like this as much as performing? Do you like it more than performing?

[Josh Rubin]

I like performing. I. You know, anytime anyone asks me to do a live thing, unless it's, like, Harold Improv, which scares the out of me. I've done it a couple times. I've just been like, well, I don't know how to sweep. I was like, do you run now? Dan Gregor, do you run now? And Dan would be wonderful. He would be very supportive if I. If I, God forbid, gun in my head, did along a long form. But anyway, anytime anybody asked me to do anything live, I will do it because it's scary.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

So. And I'm just like, yeah, sure, why not? And it always, always ends up being great. Unless I was doing like a bringer show at Gotham Comedy Club in New York 150 years ago, and. And, you know, other than the first and second time I ever got out, all the other times were really messy, plumbing bad. Yeah. But I think what it is about people like Craig and Peel, and there's this new kid, Cory Barker, who's very funny, who has this movie I think he shot for under a million that sold for 15 million. He's very, very good. I think what it is about these comedians, especially ones who did sketch, there's a little bit of that, like, danger. What's the word? It's like. It's like a puckish kind of. I want to hold the mirror up to you, make fun of you, mimic you. Usually it's make fun of the bully, make fun of the authority figure. We're really good observationists. All comedians are. I mean, you. You got a great genre film. And you too. It's like, because we. We get. We know the specifics of behavior. And so it. The combo of being an actor's director to be able to just be there to create a safe space for actors, people to. To be able to do their, you know, do the Amy Madigan to do her thing in Weapons as an example, or Josh Brolin. But to also be like, oh, let me. Let me dial this a little further. And also, because I'm such a great comedic performer, the royal eye. The royal eye is none of us get caught trying to be funny. So if you're a good actor, you're not gonna play a funny scream like Sam Richardson. Werewolves never screamed funny. He just played terror for real. And you're like, oh, God, I don't want him to get hurt. And so I think that's a great thing for an actors. An actors director to be like, I'm sitting in the front row. I'm. I'm your first audience member to watch your performance. So I'm just gonna tell you, just watch that one thing, dial that back a little bit. But otherwise you're doing great. Push it a little further, maybe do something, you know, I don't know. I think there's something that's like the combination of being observationist, but also like a little bit of a rule breaker or a little bit of like a kind of a mildly anarchist, you know, pcu. I think that. I think that helps kind of throttle it a little.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great. Great.

[Josh Rubin]

We're all angry, and I think that that helps too. It's like, yeah, let's have that character be more condescending and take a little more time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Josh Rubin]

You know, with the line.

[Pete Holmes]

Because life can seem so hard.

[Josh Rubin]

I think it comes from sensitivity. Yes. Definitely.

[Pete Holmes]

Being sensitive people.

[Josh Rubin]

Totally, Totally. I was a bullied kids. I love being able to, you know, like Milana, who was in Werewolves with them, I love especially too. She was playing a woman who was hard done by by men. I was like, really take your time mocking them in this one moment and do this specific thing with your eyes. It was so cathartic to be able to instruct that and see her recognizing the impact.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like Birbiglia's great joke where he goes, you're the joke later when people go like, you're not very funny. And he's like, but I'm gonna tell.

[Podcast Announcer]

The story of this.

[Pete Holmes]

See, you're the joke later. And so, like, very sensitive people in their art can kind of go like, this is what it was like for me. I was overwhelmed and I felt condescended to and I felt scared and all this stuff. But you get to kind of reclaim it in a safe way.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's totally right. So my journey is going to be, can I continue to keep doing that? But, you know, learn how to be firm. Firm and diplomatic with, you know, the Salties. And I honestly, I really haven't had bad experiences with. With actors. I think it's all survival mechanism. I. I want to be able to keep doing what I'm doing. But it always feels like the first day of school, going with a troop or a few people, and, you know, I think I just end up scaring myself. It's never bad as I think it is. Everybody wants to know they're doing a good job. Yeah, everybody wants to feel taken care of. And everybody wants to feel like you know what you're doing and you don't go in there and go, I don't know, I. We could do a low angle. I don't know. Can you imagine if they all came in sounding like a Diane Weiss character? Well, we could do that, Edward. You know Scissorhands? Oh, my God. You know what I mean? Do I do a Diane Weiss?

[Pete Holmes]

It was very good.

[Josh Rubin]

I don't know. Avon calling.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Josh Rubin]

We could.

[Pete Holmes]

That we could. Was excellent.

[Josh Rubin]

We could.

[Pete Holmes]

That was very good.

[Josh Rubin]

My daughter Wynonna.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you do? We're almost out of here. I can't believe it's been an hour and a half.

[Josh Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you believe it?

[Josh Rubin]

To talk to a psychic at three. It is la.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you really?

[Josh Rubin]

I do. Are you really? I do, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. She's great. I'll tell you everything.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me. This is way more interesting.

[Josh Rubin]

Her name is Sunny, she's our age, and she's actually intuitive. If you get on the phone with her and you'll just be. She's like, do you have any questions for me? Do you want me to just start talking? And. And you just be like, just start talking. She goes, there's something wrong with your aunt's foot. And. Hang on, sorry. Are you a little depressed? Like, it was just like. You'd be like, whoa. And they're all specifics that she gets.

[Pete Holmes]

Give me one real specific.

[Josh Rubin]

She told my. She told my wife that a bald man with very white hair is going to. A bald man. A half bald man with very white hair is going to be the source of XYZ job that she was. She was hoping to get. And sure enough, we kept an eye out for that. And she called out. My wife later called out once this job opportunity came. She goes, you know, the person who is in charge of this operation looks like this, right. And showed me a picture exactly as she described. She's like those little chilling things.

[Pete Holmes]

Whoa. Over the phone, too.

[Josh Rubin]

We went in person once and it was really intense. My wife and I both went and was like, really? She was just like, yeah. It was just, you know, and she's just as normal as you can. Yeah, no, come on in. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm getting full body chills because it's your sister. Your sister has something with her. There's her hair. She has. Or whatever. Yeah, but it's always like that specific. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I've told it a million. But I had a girlfriend that I called Bug.

[Josh Rubin]

She had the touch. Did she have the magic?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. I talked to a psychic and the first thing I was like, can we talk about relationships? And she goes, yeah, who's Bug? And this is before I. I don't write hey, boy.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

On Facebook. I Never use social media.

[Josh Rubin]

Facebook.

[Pete Holmes]

And I know we've told that story a million but like it. Something's going on. It's crazy.

[Josh Rubin]

So you. You're a believer?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah. I am too. I am too. In some sunny and sunny.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Josh Rubin]

For sure. For sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm gonna get her info.

[Josh Rubin]

Please do. Knock, knock on the door. Who's it for? For those of you just listening, I held two fingers to my temple like a psychic. I slice away.

[Pete Holmes]

You are the funniest and a delight. And I'm just so happy to see.

[Josh Rubin]

You doing so well. You too, man. Let's do it again. It again. We both have expensive blazers and we're both doing Netflix shows. And you know, check me out on Black Rabbit. Just me and Julia. Yeah. Carry on.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm going to call a guy at.

[Josh Rubin]

An airport and say. I'm going to say. Hey. I'm going to. I'm going to blow up the. I'm going to blow up the. The plane. It's Jason, baby. My friend. I. Hey, buddy. He welted my hand. Well, bud, you broke me. I. Actually, the insurance claim will be. It'll be.

[Pete Holmes]

I've never needed to hurt somebody for being so funny.

[Josh Rubin]

I'm. I'm. I'm livid. I'm livid. Yeah, I'm. I'm livid. Yeah, Pretty livid. It has been a pleasure, man. Don't hit me, dude. Don't. Don't. No, dude, no. Knock, knock on the door. Who's it for? Pete with the mic in my. For those of you just listening, I pretended to get hit in the face with a microphone. Shaking my hand over my broken nose.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. Would you say, keep it crispy?

[Josh Rubin]

What would you say? What would you say? Keep it crispy, my friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Very good.

[Josh Rubin]

Keep it crispy. Hey, dear Ndugu, keep it crispy. My toes just curled.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you, Judge.

[Josh Rubin]

You're so welcome, Pete. It.