Kunal Nayyar (2:26)

Like, there's the psychological aspect of money that we can't deny.

Pete Holmes (2:29)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (2:30)

I remember when we had Bill Gates. Yeah. Ice cream cone.

Pete Holmes (2:33)

Ice cream cone. I remember Bill Gates on your podcast.

Kunal Nayyar (2:35)

Oh, the show. On the show.

Pete Holmes (2:36)

On the show.

Kunal Nayyar (2:36)

I mean, there was a remarkable difference being around a billionaire and seeing how.

Pete Holmes (2:41)

People treat a billionaire.

Kunal Nayyar (2:42)

Yeah. Just there's something about The.

Pete Holmes (2:46)

What was it? How did people treat Bill Gates?

Kunal Nayyar (2:49)

I mean, there was. There's a lot of rich people on that set, but there was. They're not as rich as Bill Gates. Well, although maybe some of them now, but. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it. Like I said, it's the psychological. There's an energy. There's a psychological energy that comes with money.

Pete Holmes (3:13)

Well, you're like a magician. You're like magic somehow.

Kunal Nayyar (3:15)

Yeah. It's, like, different. Like, your personality gets less important than the physical asset that you own. Does that make sense?

Pete Holmes (3:23)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (3:23)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (3:24)

Well, it's like being incredibly beautiful.

Kunal Nayyar (3:26)

I was going to say like a very beautiful woman.

Pete Holmes (3:28)

You talk to a very beautiful.

Kunal Nayyar (3:29)

She's always subjected to the way she looks.

Pete Holmes (3:31)

Incredibly handsome, man. And when you talk to. I've had people that are friends with very, very beautiful people, and when they're on, like, mushrooms or something, they unburden themselves with, like, the thing that nobody wants to hear, which is. You don't know what a trap this is. Like, everywhere I go, people treat me this way and expect me to be this way. And they want. They want something from you.

Kunal Nayyar (3:55)

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, even if it's just a smile, but especially if you're a woman, just being hypersexualized your entire life since you had puberty is just.

Pete Holmes (4:02)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (4:03)

Must feel so disgusting, in a way.

Pete Holmes (4:06)

And then if someone's talking to Bill Gates and you're like, this guy could give me a grant.

Kunal Nayyar (4:13)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (4:13)

Or something like, he could fund my entire.

Kunal Nayyar (4:16)

But that's not even Bill Gates. That could be. There's a lot of people there that could change your life in an instant.

Pete Holmes (4:22)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (4:22)

I mean, people ask me for money all the time on, you know, DMs and stuff like that. And it could be $500 or $1,000 or. Yeah. Do you ever do it? Well, I. I like to go undercover on GoFundMe and help people sometimes and just.

Pete Holmes (4:35)

I love that. I had a feeling. Hey, man. Gay man with the sleeper, go fund me.

Kunal Nayyar (4:41)

So silly.

Pete Holmes (4:42)

It's fine.

Kunal Nayyar (4:42)

And then you get my vigilante. My vigilante is undercover. GoFundMe, dude.

Pete Holmes (4:47)

We don't perch on gargoyles anymore. We just click around on some websites. That's nice. But it is, like, on succession. And I wasn't even really planning on talking about this with you, but it is interesting. You weren't wealthy or rich or whatever you want to say, and now you are. So you have data from both sides, and the one thing we're saying is like, people, do you get the sense or do you smell it that somebody is kind of gaming you or wanting something from you?

Kunal Nayyar (5:17)

I think instinctually, I've been quite good somehow. I think also growing up in India, you know, we were middle class. We didn't have a lot of money, but we were educated. You know, we came from a sort of a class of people that were considered educated and upper class. That may not have been reflected in our lifestyle or our cash, if that makes sense. Y. You're just around so much poverty, you know, that there's an acceptance. I know this sounds difficult to say, but there's. It's different than the poverty in America. Like some. You see in Los Angeles, there's a lot of poverty, and you're afraid for your life sometimes because someone may be on drugs or try to harm you. And that's what you. You don't see that so much in India. There's a real acceptance of the way the class system is. And I don't know if that makes any sense.

Pete Holmes (6:08)

No, I think I do. We were. We. We've had two guests today, and the last one was Forrest Galante, or I hope I'm saying that correctly. I never said his last name. But anyway, he works in, like, the jungles and stuff, and he talks about, like, you go up to a hippo, it's gonna eat you. Like, it's gonna. You up. And he has this, like, you let me know if I'm completely out of. Out of depth here. He had this understanding of, like, kind of like, that's just natural. This thing will kill you. These are there. This is. And in India, is it more in tune with, like, there's this and then there's this, and it's all kind of happening on top of itself, as opposed to. In America, we have. Well, there's skid row downtown, and then there's Beverly Hills over here.

Kunal Nayyar (6:50)

I. I think, first of all, yes, physically, yes, there is definitely a delineation. You're not living amongst it, like in. In Delhi, in New Delhi. And you're living amongst it, all right? You have the mansions, and then you have the slum right next to it. That's just every. The richer colonies of people are serviced by a village that's right next to it where all the people who serve them live in. So all the workers in your home live in a village that is right next to the little sort of neighborhood. It'll be like Los Feliz, where all the rich people live, and then it'll be right next to it. It'll be a little colony where all the gardeners and all the cooks and all the chefs and all the servants and all the maids and everyone lives.

Pete Holmes (7:27)

Right. So, by the way, I'm not trying to be funny here. Like Hawaii, that's a huge problem. Because Hawaii, everybody wants to vacation there. And then the people that work at these resorts, which are often the locals, are obviously and rightfully upset. You know, that White Lotus was about that. It's like, now we can't afford to live on the place that used to be our beach. Now there's a gate here.

Kunal Nayyar (7:49)

Like Spain. Spain is going. They're fighting back against over tourism because Ibiza was a place that I love, is becoming unaffordable for all the locals. And they're just fighting back against, you know. But going back to what you were saying about the del. The.

Pete Holmes (8:03)

The sort of the new delegate.

Kunal Nayyar (8:04)

Yeah. There is a. I think India, just as a culture, accepts a certain surrender to the way things are, as opposed to America, is the place you come. Anyone can become president.

Pete Holmes (8:20)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (8:21)

And therefore, you are always wanting to be somewhere else other than where you are already. Right.

Pete Holmes (8:26)

It's the American optimism.

Kunal Nayyar (8:28)

Exactly. So in between your imagination and your reality, a lot of anxiety comes. Does that make sense? So we don't have that so much in India. There is a deep acceptance and surrender, my friend.

Pete Holmes (8:40)

Love. Love. Reiki. I don't know if you know love. Just because he's a great writer and he's worked on so many shows, but he was like, in India, the idea of your life being a work of art is just not a thing as much as it is in America, where everyone's like, I'm gonna have my 20s, and then I'll have my 30s, and then I'll go through this phase, and then I'll die in this perfect way, surrounded by. It's just like today. What's gonna happen? I don't know. Like, it's not so much like.

Kunal Nayyar (9:08)

But there's a. There's a real peace in that. There's a real peace in that feeling. Like, for example, let's say you're sitting at home and you're having a panic attack about something that has not happened. And suddenly your house catches fire. Your panic attack is gone.

Pete Holmes (9:25)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (9:26)

Your house is on fire. Yeah, that's it. Your imagination is not dictating your reality. Your reality is dictating your reality. Right.

Pete Holmes (9:32)

Hey, man, this is good. Ram Dass would say that.

Kunal Nayyar (9:34)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (9:36)

Car veers off a cliff. You're not Horny.

Kunal Nayyar (9:39)

Exactly. But in. But in America, you have so much comfort that you have time for your imagination to paint this sort of work of art. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (9:48)

Future tripping is a luxury.

Kunal Nayyar (9:50)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (9:51)

And we have so much of it.

Kunal Nayyar (9:53)

Well, that's why so many rich people are unhappy, miserable.

Pete Holmes (9:56)

And again, Forest and I were just talking about, like, he grew up in Zimbabwe. He's like, there are these people that have nothing. And I thought of India, because Ram Dass again, would make the same point. He's like, you see a kid living under a table, literally living under a table, and he looks as free.

Kunal Nayyar (10:11)

As free as. Exactly.

Pete Holmes (10:13)

And here we're streaming 28 seasons of Spongebob. We're eating all these things that our brain wants. Fat and sugar and all this stuff. So the secret to life clearly isn't meeting all of your needs.

Kunal Nayyar (10:26)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (10:27)

And it seems like maybe one of the secrets of life is, is to have actual problems. Maybe we might say, like, there's a comfort, like, I'll join you in this weird thought experiment. I say this all the time, but the people that were getting bombed in World War II in London were the hap. They pulled them. They. They missed that time when they were going underground at night and bombs were going off because they had a shared. Human beings pointed in the same direction are the happiest human beings there are. And when they know what the threat is, we go to bed in our mansions. I'm just saying, like, human beings, rich people go to bed and they worry about the tumor that isn't there, or the assassin or the thief. None of this is real, so it can be as horrible as you want it to be. As opposed to the daily quest, I need to find food today. I'm not trying to say on house, people have it made by any means. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. But human beings do well, when we're like, today, I need to eat, I need to sleep, I need to find shelter. That's why people on that show alone are so happy. Like, they're. They're kicking it or camping people or survivalists, they understand this.

Kunal Nayyar (11:40)

Yes. I mean, I think there's a danger to that too. I mean, I think anyone can be enlightened. If you live in a mountain alone and you never deal with any other egos in this life, but that's their journey.

Pete Holmes (11:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that the recluse, who was it there was a swami that said, the best place to practice your sadhana is in the military or the police force. Really and he was like, that's where you should go.

Kunal Nayyar (12:00)

Wow. Or spend a week with your family. Like Baba Ramdas.

Pete Holmes (12:02)

Exactly. Every time I think I'm doing great, I go home and I'm like, oh, shit. I'm a beginner. I'm a beginner.

Kunal Nayyar (12:09)

But it's interesting that you. I think that if we were all allowed to be ourselves without guilt also, and without fear of losing out or missing out on someone else's version of our lives, I think it bring us a lot of peace. Tell me, like, in the sense right now, if I told you there's nothing.

Pete Holmes (12:29)

Wrong with you, if I could really.

Kunal Nayyar (12:32)

Own that, really, like, you don't have to be anything else. You don't have to sit here and constantly work on yourself and have your 10 vision boards and have your six steps that you're trying to do and the seven books you're reading about. If I just told you. If you just stopped in this moment.

Pete Holmes (12:48)

And I'm giving you permission.

Kunal Nayyar (12:51)

I'm giving you permission to absolutely be yourself.

Pete Holmes (12:55)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (12:58)

Can you do that? And I think it's difficult because a part of us is so riddled with guilt.

Pete Holmes (13:04)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (13:05)

Right. Because every. We've always been. Everything we've been told is wrong. Everything that we like is wrong.

Pete Holmes (13:10)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (13:11)

I'm saying everything that we've enjoyed.

Pete Holmes (13:13)

You're broken.

Kunal Nayyar (13:15)

Yeah. Like, I mean, look at the perversion of sexuality these days. But if you were told sex was normal or was healthy or you could explore this, you could explore that. You're not disgusting. And yes, if you believe in monogamy, you believe in monogamy. If you believe in polygamy, you believe in polygamy. It doesn't matter. It's not a big deal.

Pete Holmes (13:29)

Right? Right.

Kunal Nayyar (13:30)

There'd be so little perversion about it.

Pete Holmes (13:31)

We just talked about this last time. It's wine in Europe. It's like a little wine with dinner. And they have way less binge drinking.

Kunal Nayyar (13:38)

Yes, of course it was normal. Have a glass of rose with lunch or whatever.

Pete Holmes (13:41)

So Rob Bell, who's a spiritual teacher, maybe, you know, he's incredible. He read my book, and there's so much sex shame in my book. And he goes. I just. He goes, my fantasy is exactly what you said. I just wish I could go back to teenage Pete and say, there's nothing wrong with you, and I was straight. I'm saying that with full respect to people who have bigger battles. You know what I mean? I was. I made this joke a million times, but I had to come out to my parents as Straight. Just that I was a fucking horny teenager. That was shameful enough. Imagine.

Kunal Nayyar (14:12)

Were they very religious?

Pete Holmes (14:13)

Well, they were. They were fine with it. I just got a lot of shame from the church and. And from myself.

Kunal Nayyar (14:19)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (14:19)

Nobody really actively squashed it. And I think a kid left to their own devices will be like, what is it like? It's weird. It feels weird. You feel like an animal or something.

Kunal Nayyar (14:30)

Yeah. You feel again because of the moral code that is somehow linked to all this stuff.

Pete Holmes (14:36)

Yeah. Right.

Kunal Nayyar (14:37)

You know.

Pete Holmes (14:38)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (14:38)

I want to go back to what you're saying about sort of the rich people. If I. If you're tripping future when you have so much money, you could use it for so much good. And by that I also mean you could take the time to finally be with yourself, discover yourself.

Pete Holmes (14:57)

But the. The level of consciousness that gets you to extreme wealth is not the level of consciousness that can enjoy that wealth.

Kunal Nayyar (15:04)

Fair.

Pete Holmes (15:04)

Wouldn't you agree?

Kunal Nayyar (15:05)

Yeah, fair. I wouldn't say that about everyone, but I understand what you mean.

Pete Holmes (15:08)

I mean, I wouldn't say it about.

Kunal Nayyar (15:09)

Everyone either, but I know what you mean. Yes. If you're. If your entire sort of painting of your journey, of your life is about achieving money.

Pete Holmes (15:19)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (15:20)

Making more money.

Pete Holmes (15:21)

And then you get there and now you're. You have become addicted to a certain type of achievement. It's like you built a Transformer robot and you live inside of it, and now you're trying to get it to sit down and just listen to a river. It like, it doesn't understand that.

Kunal Nayyar (15:34)

Yeah. But that's all of us.

Pete Holmes (15:36)

It is all of us. Absolutely. All these addictions.

Kunal Nayyar (15:39)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (15:41)

Do you enjoy having money? Has it made your life harder or.

Kunal Nayyar (15:46)

No. Much easier. I'm so blessed. Yeah. I'm so. I feel all the time so lucky and humbled. And also a level of responsibility that comes with being publicly wealthy. You know, I think that. That I don't talk much about money. Yeah. But I'm also extremely grateful to be in a position to help people.

Pete Holmes (16:11)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (16:12)

You know, that's really important for me.

Pete Holmes (16:15)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it doesn't freak you out, family members, knowing how much you have?

Kunal Nayyar (16:22)

I'm not. So I also like to. I'm. I don't have guilt about it. Sorry. I don't have. I don't feel sheepish or shy that I was awarded equitably for the work that I put into a show that made a lot of money.

Pete Holmes (16:39)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (16:40)

It's not like we were overpaid. Even the salary may seem Very big.

Pete Holmes (16:45)

But remember, actually underpaid.

Kunal Nayyar (16:46)

You're getting only a very small percentage of what that show is making every single. And continues to.

Pete Holmes (16:52)

We always say that on the show. It's like, it's not just in terms of successful television shows. Whatever you're making, who's paying you is making a lot more.

Kunal Nayyar (17:01)

Yeah. So it's in relation to that. My father is retired now, but was an accountant, and when I first started doing well, he said, you know, enjoy everything. Like, if you tell yourself, I can't, I don't know, buy that car, because what will happen tomorrow then you. That car will become your jail.

Pete Holmes (17:22)

Yeah, that's right.

Kunal Nayyar (17:23)

Buy it, use it, enjoy it. That's the point of it.

Pete Holmes (17:27)

Look, that's what I said to so Deepak Chopra when he did my podcast. It was on his, like, compound. It was like Disney, Disneyland.

Kunal Nayyar (17:35)

Deepak Land, the one in San Diego. Yes.

Pete Holmes (17:37)

And I was like, what is this? Like, you're just walking around. It's so well manicured and beautiful landscaped. And you're like, this is. The gardening bill for this place is $175,000 a month. Like, there's just no way. And I said that to him off Mike. We were in a car and I go, what do you make of all of this money? Like, you're just dealing with a lot of energy. These like kind of a spiritual term. Like, you just have a lot of this stuff coming and going and staff. And he goes, it's all play.

Kunal Nayyar (18:08)

Yeah, it's all just play.

Pete Holmes (18:09)

And I was like, yeah, okay, I like that. I take that. And that's what I hear your dad saying.

Kunal Nayyar (18:14)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (18:14)

Don't put your identity in the car. But also don't. You can re. You can by retreating from the car. Now it's got you in a different way.

Kunal Nayyar (18:22)

100.

Pete Holmes (18:23)

Pushing or pulling? How about just drive the car?

Kunal Nayyar (18:27)

Well, also, remember if. If it's a nice car or something that you like, whether you like the shape of it, it's also a beautiful marvel of modern engineering. There has been labor, there's energy in that car. Someone has made it, someone has painted.

Pete Holmes (18:41)

It's beautiful.

Kunal Nayyar (18:42)

There's something that it gives you joy. You know, I. I've never understood when you're enjoying something, why people feel like you're taking their joy away.

Pete Holmes (18:49)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (18:50)

I've never understood that.

Pete Holmes (18:51)

The depravity mindset.

Kunal Nayyar (18:52)

Yeah. I'm not doing anything to hurt you in that way. I just want to enjoy. But so many people live in a jail because they're afraid to Enjoy anything.

Pete Holmes (18:59)

And what have you done to overcome this? Because, like, what. We did a movie together, and when you. Did you see me reading my Rupert book or something? We talked about Rupert Spira.

Kunal Nayyar (19:10)

No, it's because I had seen interviews with you and I had seen videos of you talking about it. And did you do Mind Biolic's podcast?

Pete Holmes (19:19)

I did.

Kunal Nayyar (19:20)

I think I saw that one.

Pete Holmes (19:21)

Okay.

Kunal Nayyar (19:22)

And I saw you talking a lot about some of the.

Pete Holmes (19:24)

Well, she was very generous with that. She, like, let me go.

Kunal Nayyar (19:27)

Yeah, she's. She loves. And I think I heard you talk there. And then I follow. And then I watched a bunch of interviews where you were talking similar language to what has made sense to me in my life. And that's why when we met, I thought I would. I didn't think I would bring it up. It just came when we were chatting.

Pete Holmes (19:42)

Yeah. Yeah. And as you saw, I get so excited if somebody is like, maybe I shouldn't. People could manipulate this. I. I don't think anyone would. But it's like, if someone comes up and like, I love Rupert Spira or I like non. Duality or this. That these teachers. I'll just immediately.

Kunal Nayyar (19:59)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (19:59)

The guard comes immediately down. And that's what happened with us. I was just like. And now I just. We're kind of like, in love.

Kunal Nayyar (20:06)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (20:06)

Like, I don't want to.

Kunal Nayyar (20:07)

It's a different language, you know, it's a. It is. I think if two people have done. I don't like to use the word work, but have looked at the psychological makeup of their nature and have a little bit of distance from it, just even that much. I think two people can have this language of love.

Pete Holmes (20:27)

Yes.

Kunal Nayyar (20:27)

Because you're not constantly rubbing up against the egoic psychological makeup of what you think is right or wrong.

Pete Holmes (20:35)

Yes. So when I'm talking to you now, and when I talk to you, then I just sense this. This distance and this liberation from, like, sex shame. We've talked about money shame, your car shame, whatever it might be. What. What are some of the steps when you were younger that you took that led you to this?

Kunal Nayyar (20:52)

Well, my journey started with complete. And my. By the way, I also want to preface by saying that it's not as if those things don't continuously eat at you or bite at you or they just. The sting doesn't quite sting in the same way when you've seen through the illusion of it.

Pete Holmes (21:09)

Yes.

Kunal Nayyar (21:10)

Right.

Pete Holmes (21:10)

You can see them. Like, I. I think it's around us thing. They come to you like children.

Kunal Nayyar (21:15)

Yes.

Pete Holmes (21:15)

Your children. And you and you just love them and hug them. I'm glad you mentioned that by the way, cuz. Two dudes talking about spirituality. It's easy to be like, oh, we just, we don't get angry or we don't get this.

Kunal Nayyar (21:25)

Yeah, but that's not true at all.

Pete Holmes (21:26)

It's not true.

Kunal Nayyar (21:26)

That's not true at all.

Pete Holmes (21:27)

The great disappointment of it actually is you're like, you can be at peace somewhere and be completely not peaceful in your.

Kunal Nayyar (21:35)

What we'll call this is my journey. I mean this is everything we're talking about literally is what you're saying is I. What am I, 44? So when I was 30 years old, I just started making great money. I was doing very well. I just got married. Big Bang was becoming a huge hit and I was driving on the freeway and out of nowhere I had a panic attack. And I had never experienced panic or anxiety, never really liked heights and stuff and you know, didn't like flying as much. And although that now I love flying, but it doesn't matter. Like I had some like little phobias from my family. Like my dad growing up, never liked going into elevators. This is pretty normal stuff. Yeah, most people don't like, you know, something, something.

Pete Holmes (22:17)

But you weren't like a deeply anxious.

Kunal Nayyar (22:18)

No, I wasn't. Never really ever. In fact I was the opposite. And then that got really bad. Like every time I looked at my car keys that feeling came up. Or couldn't go on the highway, couldn't, you know. And then that started getting into heights and buildings and elevators. Almost like very kind of agoraphobic. But I was still working, I was still doing it.

Pete Holmes (22:40)

I just functioning and still driving to work.

Kunal Nayyar (22:42)

Still driving to work.

Pete Holmes (22:43)

But you know, everyday system that you'd.

Kunal Nayyar (22:45)

Get one every day was a struggle.

Pete Holmes (22:47)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (22:47)

And then I was living in the hill, so I had to drive up the mountain and then down the mountain and. And all this stuff and I thought, wow, I gotta get back, you know, I'm not well. Well, I'd never thought of this. And so I started seeing a hypnotherapist, a lovely lady.

Pete Holmes (23:01)

And by the way, I feel like that deserves stepping out like going like wait, I'm not well. Yeah, I think that's huge.

Kunal Nayyar (23:08)

Really.

Pete Holmes (23:08)

Oh, good. Good on you.

Kunal Nayyar (23:10)

Oh, okay. It didn't.

Pete Holmes (23:11)

That's what we're all.

Kunal Nayyar (23:12)

But it didn't feel like a pat on my shoulder. It felt like my house is on, I need to do something.

Pete Holmes (23:17)

No, for sure. But I think a lot of us will grit our Teeth and fake it or it's too embarrassing, like, to be able to say, like, I do this a lot in my marriage. I'm like, oh, I think we're in a blind spot of mine. I think I'm in some, like, I have like an irrational belief here and I'm speaking from a place not. I'd say to my wife to be funny of bullshit. Like, I'm in a. I'm in my fear, I'm in pain, I'm. Something's not right. And I think especially even at our age, to go, like, let's not be addicted to how we think so much so that even when we start being unwell that we go like, but it's up here, so it's me. So it must be good.

Kunal Nayyar (23:53)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (23:54)

So you were like, I'm not well, I need help.

Kunal Nayyar (23:55)

Yes, but it, but, yes, but at the time I didn't know anything about anything that we're talking about.

Pete Holmes (24:01)

Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (24:01)

I was like, help me. And so she was just helping me. Therapy, like also just. It was my first try. A therapy.

Pete Holmes (24:10)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (24:11)

And it was amazing because I realized, oh, I'm not crazy. Something has led to this belief. And. And now that I.

Pete Holmes (24:17)

What was the belief? Well, it wasn't Cynthia Morgan, was it?

Kunal Nayyar (24:23)

No.

Pete Holmes (24:24)

What if it was?

Kunal Nayyar (24:25)

At the time, I didn't know at the time, I didn't really understand at the time. I wasn't even exploring psychologically as much as just figuring out how to get over my fear so I could drive on the freeway. Yeah, right, right.

Pete Holmes (24:37)

But that's how it gets here.

Kunal Nayyar (24:38)

So then I started driving every day on the freeway with her or whatever. Every once a week we'd get in the freeway and I would fight this like horrible panic. And then I would go through the exercises and drive and drive. And then at the time I started reading Deepak Chopra's Seven Laws of Spiritual Success. That was the first book I turned to spirituality. I didn't know what else to do and I didn't want to take a pill, though I was self medicating with alcohol, so it's the same thing. And I didn't want to take a pill. And I. That's why I started reading all this stuff. Then I started following from there. I thought I read Michael Singer's book. The Untethered Soul was the first book, book that I read that changed my life because it was the first time I realized that my thoughts are not real. Till that moment, every thought that had come into my head, I had believed as me the, as a Thinker of it.

Pete Holmes (25:28)

Right. Here it is.

Kunal Nayyar (25:30)

I just had no separation.

Pete Holmes (25:32)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (25:33)

That my reality was what I was thinking and feeling.

Pete Holmes (25:36)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (25:36)

Because I thought that was who I was.

Pete Holmes (25:38)

Well, there was no separation.

Kunal Nayyar (25:40)

Yes. At the time I didn't, I didn't know. I hadn't talked about any of this stuff. The first time I read that book I thought, oh, oh, I am not my mind.

Pete Holmes (25:51)

You're the presence watching your mind.

Kunal Nayyar (25:53)

Yes. Or that I have the ability to.

Pete Holmes (25:55)

Be the presence to whatever.

Kunal Nayyar (25:56)

Yeah, whatever word we want to give it. That I have an ability to step away from it and look at all this nonsense that it's spitting out.

Pete Holmes (26:02)

Right, right, right.

Kunal Nayyar (26:03)

And when I had that for just half a second, it changed my life. I said, oh, now I want, now I want to know who I am.

Pete Holmes (26:12)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (26:12)

Cuz this is not who I am.

Pete Holmes (26:14)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (26:14)

Everything I thought of as Kunal is not that. Every. I was a blank slate when I was born and everyone put their stuff on me. My name, my religion, my culture and everything wrote their story on my board and then that became me. But I've never asked myself, who am I?

Pete Holmes (26:29)

Who were you before that? And who are you still?

Kunal Nayyar (26:32)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (26:32)

By the way, this, like. Oh, I want that. So you like tasted peace. I was just thinking about this on the way in for some reason that Jesus tells a parable about a guy who buys a field because he knows there's a treasure buried in the field. So he sells everything that he has to buy the field to get the treasure. But he's trying to intimate the preciousness when you taste it. Your true nature. We could call it the only actual piece, which is a non circumstantial, ever present, familiar, intimate piece that no one has pointed us to. Everyone does everything they can to distract us from. But when you taste it, you'll sell everything you can to buy the field, to dig up the treasure, because nothing else will do.

Kunal Nayyar (27:14)

That's a beautiful. That's exactly what happened.

Pete Holmes (27:16)

Yes.

Kunal Nayyar (27:17)

Like I did that. And then from Michael Singer, I started listening to Muji. Muji is a great spiritual Muji Baba. Then I went from there to Adi Ashanti. Adiya is great. And so now simultaneously I'm trying to get over.

Pete Holmes (27:30)

Sorry, keep going. Those are great finds.

Kunal Nayyar (27:34)

I mean, at the time, probably just YouTube videos led you to an algorithm of YouTube videos. An algorithm of YouTube videos in defense of YouTube.

Pete Holmes (27:41)

By the way, if you're having a spiritual thing, YouTube will be like, I got you.

Kunal Nayyar (27:46)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (27:46)

It's crazy.

Kunal Nayyar (27:47)

It's crazy.

Pete Holmes (27:48)

It'll either take you to be a flat Earther. Or it'll be like, oh, here's like, ancient wisdom. Like, thank you, YouTube, for being both.

Kunal Nayyar (27:56)

I remember of shooting a. A taping of the Big Bang. It was in the middle of a live taping, and I wasn't in the next two scenes. I was up in my room and I was watching a meditation or, like, a video from Muji. And the video is called the only exercise you'll ever need. And he was just doing his meditation, listening. I'm listening, listening to him. And then for a second, I had a complete gap between two thoughts. It was like a second where there was nothing. And then I went crazy, just searching for that, for the rest. Then I started going meditating. Hours and hours and hours, hours, always trying. And that gap then became bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. But what I'm trying to say is all of the energy that it took to create my acting career, like, that sort of egoic energy I then put into my search for spirituality. And it led me so far off the deep end that I then had to crawl back and be like, I need to still be a husband and a friend, and I can't just sit every day. Just.

Pete Holmes (29:02)

You became like a renunciate, but not on, but.

Kunal Nayyar (29:06)

But it was like, I need to be enlightened.

Pete Holmes (29:08)

What else?

Kunal Nayyar (29:09)

Exactly. I need to win an Oscar. I need to be enlightened. Like, you know, it was the same kind of energy. And. And I'll just end this entire journey by saying that I'm still driving on the freeway. I'm going through all of this, like, spiritual stuff, and I'm still having to get back in the driveway to get highway with my hypnotherapist to get over the panic. And one day I'm on the freeway with her, and I'm hot. I'm angry. I'm like, who am I? Like, who am I? I'm screaming. I don't even know why, because I'm not at all. I just don't. Anger is not an emotion that I've felt much. And I'm saying, am I the one wearing all the masks, or am I the mask? Am I the one wearing all the masks? Am I the mask? And then it just happened. I just. Everything stopped. And I knew in that moment who I was.

Pete Holmes (30:00)

The one wearing the masks, or how would you frame.

Kunal Nayyar (30:03)

It was. Yeah, it was. Oh, I've always been here. From the moment I was born till this moment, I've always been here.

Pete Holmes (30:16)

Yes, that which can seem disappointing.

Kunal Nayyar (30:19)

That's what I love about it comes later. The disappointment came later. But in that moment it felt like. Yeah, just laughter and laughter. I've always been here.

Pete Holmes (30:30)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (30:31)

This, all this crazy everything.

Pete Holmes (30:33)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (30:34)

But it was generational. It was like. Like every lifetime of mine or something like that. I don't know how to explain.

Pete Holmes (30:42)

It led to that.

Kunal Nayyar (30:44)

Yeah. They're like, oh.

Pete Holmes (30:46)

And it was for all of them. Right?

Kunal Nayyar (30:48)

For something. Yeah. It was just. But there was such a divine laughter out of it because it was like, oh, it's so silly. The diamond's always been in my pocket.

Pete Holmes (30:56)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (30:56)

What I'm having.

Pete Holmes (30:57)

Searching for those stories, by the way.

Kunal Nayyar (30:59)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (30:59)

The beggars sitting on the box or the diamond in the pocket.

Kunal Nayyar (31:03)

It all made sense in that moment. And I was foolish enough to think that that was it. The journey continues even to this day. But in that moment I thought, that's it. I've discovered you're cooked. Yeah, I'm done. I'm finished now.

Pete Holmes (31:16)

But you had. And forgive me if I'm not right, but I'll take a stab. Our task now is to learn how to abide there. To like, live from that place.

Kunal Nayyar (31:26)

Oh, my God, it was amazing. For three or four years I was on cloud nine. But then all of the. When you become very, very silent within, this has been my experience. All of the stuff that generationally has been hidden under the muck of your psychological makeup bubbles to the surface too. So it's not like if. And to be honest, my phobias probably got. Have been getting worse. Like I've. I hate heights now more than I've ever hated them. You know, I. I feel claustrophobic more when I'm. But even though I know it's not me and it's not real, it's just all that stuff for all of the gener. Generations that you've hidden, it's now it's there and you cannot. It doesn't end until it ends. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (32:13)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (32:14)

Am I making sense?

Pete Holmes (32:15)

I think so. You know what it reminds me of is getting sober. They say when you stop drinking, you'll feel better.

Kunal Nayyar (32:20)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (32:20)

And they go, you'll feel angry better. You'll feel lonely better. You'll feel. All of your feelings will be. So you're getting clear. And now this system that was kind of repressing all of this stuff is now kind of flowing freely. I've heard it kicking up sediment.

Kunal Nayyar (32:35)

It's like, never heard of that, but that sounds about blowing.

Pete Holmes (32:38)

And now some of the sand on the bottom is Getting in. In the mix.

Kunal Nayyar (32:41)

But it's good because it always reminds me that the journey continues. There's nothing. That's it. All we have is the journey. There's nothing else. I mean, unless when the body goes to the ground, then you do another one. Or maybe not. Depends where your soul is.

Pete Holmes (32:56)

But yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (32:58)

I think that we believe once we become in the spiritual world, if we feel like we're trying to find enlightenment, that once you find it, it's the end.

Pete Holmes (33:06)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (33:07)

Yes. Now, I will say that part of you does finish. I mean, there's nothing you can do about that.

Pete Holmes (33:11)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (33:11)

But no, there's so much life to live.

Pete Holmes (33:14)

Yeah, I agree. Well, that's what Rupert says is he's like. He goes, the first part is inward facing, but then you return. It's the hero's journey.

Kunal Nayyar (33:21)

By the way, Adya talks about coming down the mountain.

Pete Holmes (33:23)

Yeah. You have to come down the mountain.

Kunal Nayyar (33:25)

And.

Pete Holmes (33:25)

And if. Ram Dass used to say, if cities stress you out, he's like, move to a city. Like, go, get in the mix. Get in the dream. Be in the dream. Yeah, play your part in the dream.

Kunal Nayyar (33:37)

But. But there is. There is this feeling, though, of such peace that. It's so difficult to explain, that it is the least sexy kind of peace you can imagine. There's nothing ecstatic about it. There's nothing. Yeah. That butterflies. And nothing about it. It just is this kind of stateless.

Pete Holmes (34:00)

Yes. To the mind, it appears to be nothing.

Kunal Nayyar (34:04)

Yes.

Pete Holmes (34:04)

And that's why it's so unpopular.

Kunal Nayyar (34:07)

Yeah, of course.

Pete Holmes (34:07)

Because it's like you're talking about nothing. So when Rupert talks about your true self being happy and peaceful, which you can. Everyone listening could experiment and go like, are you aware? What is the nature of that awareness? Not your experience, but just the awareness that's aware. And you'd be like, well, it's quiet. You could say it's quiet. You could say it's spacious. That's a concession to the idea of space. But it has a space. You could say it's luminous, but that doesn't mean it's fireworks, it means it's aware. Luminous is just another way of saying aware. But when you say peaceful, what you really mean is lacking agitation. And when you say it's happy, it's because it's lacking desire. It doesn't need anything. So we think, or at least I'll speak for myself, but I think very strongly you'll agree. We set out searching for enlightenment, thinking it's going to be fireworks and it's going to be happiness in a way that having a three way while eating an ice cream sandwich is happy. And it's not. It's not a flare up of chemicals.

Kunal Nayyar (35:11)

In fact, it destroys the idea of having a three way and eating ice cream. Because you're like, even that can't give it to me.

Pete Holmes (35:16)

That's right. Because afterwards you'll just need some food and then you'll need a nap and then you'll need another three way. And now three way doesn't work anymore. Now you need a five way. It's opting out. So Rupert uses the image of the moth and the flame. We want the flame more than anything, but to get it, we have to die in. And by the way, this is what Jesus is saying too. He's like, the disappointment is you can be enlightenment. No person is enlightened, no God.

Kunal Nayyar (35:43)

There is only enlightenment.

Pete Holmes (35:44)

There is only enlightenment. And to go into that nature, you have to die before you die. As the. As the Greeks. You can't do it, though. You also can do it.

Kunal Nayyar (35:55)

You cannot do it. But it has to. Just. You talk about closing the gap. I mean, no one's going to watch this because they're gonna be like, what is this boohoo stuff we're talking about?

Pete Holmes (36:02)

What was Big Bang like?

Kunal Nayyar (36:03)

Yeah, exactly. How much money did you make?

Pete Holmes (36:05)

Yeah, well, that's why it started with that. It's a Ramana Maharjee. Give it what they want.

Kunal Nayyar (36:09)

Yeah, exactly.

Pete Holmes (36:11)

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Kunal Nayyar (39:14)

I will say that, that, that the. It is interesting that we are this infinite thing playing as this finite thing who's trying to be the infinite thing.

Pete Holmes (39:24)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think that's a mistake.

Kunal Nayyar (39:27)

No, no. It's a game. Whoever created it's brilliant.

Pete Holmes (39:29)

Well, that's my daughter's name, Leela. It's a dance. It's a dance. It's unbelievable, and it's beautiful. I had this experience. I know it's drugs, but it was still incredibly profound. I was on ketamine and I was like, oh, it already knows, right? Obviously, the sun is illuminated and it illuminates. That's all it is. But I go, he just wants to keep swimming. That's what it felt like. I was like, it loves, loves all of it. Even you in a car having your panic attack. It's like, yes, all of it.

Kunal Nayyar (40:05)

It's the desire that if there was such a. All of this is because it just.

Pete Holmes (40:10)

Wanted to see what it is, because it's its nature. In the same way again, this is Rupert. He goes, a mother or a couple has children. It's going to ruin an aspect of your life. It's going to sacrifice an aspect of it. It's going to sacrifice an aspect of my wife's body. You know, she paid a price. Ripping and bleeding. It's awful. Why do we do it? It was in our nature. We couldn't resist. We loved so much. We wanted a bait. We wanted more. More. My friend Michael Gungren has an incredible book. This. He says, the universe is like me throwing my daughter up in the air at the beach. And she's just going, more, more. That's it. It fucking. It's like a fountain. It wants more and more and more and more and more. If you can say it wants something.

Kunal Nayyar (40:59)

This was. This happened to me. I was in London, I think, 20, 21 or 22, and I was really in the heart of my, like, I need enlightenment phase. And I'm sitting in this park and I'm watching these kids play and looking at the trees, and I'm like, am I.

Pete Holmes (41:14)

Am I.

Kunal Nayyar (41:15)

The kids that are playing in the park, are they me? Am I this tree? Am I breathing in and is it breathing out?

Pete Holmes (41:21)

Who am I?

Kunal Nayyar (41:22)

Which one am I?

Pete Holmes (41:22)

Oh, am I breathing or am I being breathed?

Kunal Nayyar (41:24)

Yeah, exactly. Am I in this universe or is this universe in me?

Pete Holmes (41:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (41:28)

You know this. And I was, like, really spiraling hard this evening, buddy. I call it spiraling at the time. I call it spiraling now. I call it spiraling.

Pete Holmes (41:35)

I squeeze you because I just don't have a lot of friends. I know these moments where everything, you know, comes into focus and it's unsettling. It can be frightening.

Kunal Nayyar (41:45)

I just remember, though, in the heart of it, having one of those moments where I just burst out laughing and. Because I had a real understanding that this moment in time does not give a shit what I Think about it. It's the only thing that's going on.

Pete Holmes (42:02)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (42:03)

Who cares if you are enlightened or if you're not or if it. It's. The only thing that is. Is this. And that's how I burst out laughing, because it goes back to your point. It's just the play. It's just the thing.

Pete Holmes (42:16)

It's just the play. I wrote this in my book. I say the reality of the divine is not contingent on my mood. But you could also say it's not contingent on, or reliant upon your version of it. My feeling.

Kunal Nayyar (42:26)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Pete Holmes (42:27)

My understanding. Richard Rohr says that he goes. In Christianity, you would call it salvation or conversion, enlightenment, attunement, self realization. Whatever it is. It can't be an intellectual thing. Otherwise, what hope is somebody who's just. Not that. He doesn't say this, but somebody who's just not that intellectual. They're just not in the game. Sorry. You can't explain Brahman to me. Yeah, you're out. It can't be. It's a shepherd in a field with his flock. He's like, those people were in tune in a way that they couldn't explain it to you, but they intuited it and they knew it. Whether or not they could write a book about it, who fucking cares? So you're. If I'm miserable and I'm depressed and I'm petty and I'm dying and I'm like, oh, shit, I'm having, like, a bad debt or, who cares? It's all.

Kunal Nayyar (43:20)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (43:20)

What it is. And it's already complete and it's not reliant. And thank God it's not relying on me. I'm 50 different people every day. Thank goodness. It's not up to me.

Kunal Nayyar (43:28)

But very difficult to understand when your daily needs are not being met. Like, we talk a lot about this in Hinduism. You know, the hierarchy. Kana, you know, makan house. We say, first take care of your family, take care of food, take care of your house. And now is the time for yoga.

Pete Holmes (43:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (43:53)

Because it cannot be. Now is the time for yoga. And then you. You cannot. You have to settle. Yeah. Your psychological life. Yeah. In this way.

Pete Holmes (44:02)

Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (44:03)

And now is the time for yoga.

Pete Holmes (44:04)

Right. I love that. Correct me if I'm wrong, too. And I'm not making you the representative of India, but I remember Ram Dass also saying there's an understanding of the times of life. It's like, okay, you're a young man. Go make your Living. Now you're a family person. Raise your children. Now you're an older person. Now it's time to go. Like, what is this?

Kunal Nayyar (44:23)

Yeah. I mean, you don't want. I mean, no offense. You know, every teacher is different, and every religion is different. Every spirituality, spiritual circle is different. But. Yeah. You want your kids to just play.

Pete Holmes (44:34)

Yeah. Well, that's the great roomy poem. I think we talked about this. Don't waste your time in the orchard wondering who planted it.

Kunal Nayyar (44:40)

Exactly.

Pete Holmes (44:41)

Maybe just eat an apple. Val and I do this on purpose. My wife will go. No deep thoughts today. Yeah, let's just.

Kunal Nayyar (44:48)

Good.

Pete Holmes (44:49)

Let's just.

Kunal Nayyar (44:49)

Is she on a similar journey as yours?

Pete Holmes (44:51)

Val is the heart. I'm the head. She understands all of this. She lives it. I'm in awe of her, but she's. I don't know. I'm very taken with my wife. She's just very gorgeous. She doesn't spend a lot of. I'll be going like you and I.

Kunal Nayyar (45:05)

Will spend six hours.

Pete Holmes (45:07)

And it's not because she doesn't understand it. No, I will. Obviously, I didn't have to say that. I just want to be very clear. I think all that's ever ex. All that's ever experienced is knowing. So there's just knowing. This chair is made of knowing.

Kunal Nayyar (45:25)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (45:25)

There is no such thing as matter. It's consciousness playing as these senses as this. And Val will be like, great, and I'm gonna dance with my friends. And you're just like, I'm so happy for you. I'm alone by a fire door.

Kunal Nayyar (45:41)

It is interesting, though.

Pete Holmes (45:42)

This is all in God's mind. And Val's having some watermelon. It's beautiful.

Kunal Nayyar (45:46)

We do think that people think that. Oh, when you reach some level of. I don't even like that word. But if you experience some kind of spirituality thing, that you will become very. Just like this and like that. And you see so much false representation of that, which just drives me crazy. It's made me want to enjoy everything.

Pete Holmes (46:05)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (46:06)

1,000 times more, which is not great for me. Just because my personality is such that if I decide to do something, I'll do it. I'm not. I never had an addictive personality, but I'm. If I want to experience something, I want to experience it. You know, people. It's not at all this death kind of. It's. No. It's alive and vibrant and not messed up in all the gunk.

Pete Holmes (46:28)

Yeah. Well, it's funny that you say that again. I have nobody to talk about this with really so many people. Ask Adyashanti or Mooji or Rupert Spira. The question is, nine times out of ten, the question is, do you get angry? That's what they want to know.

Kunal Nayyar (46:43)

Really.

Pete Holmes (46:43)

I really feel like people are going, you seem so peaceful now, but do you ever get mad when you're running late for a flight? We're obsessed with, like, what do you do with the human experience and self realization? And over and over they're just going, like, none of that goes away. There just might be, like, a little smile. Like, I might be freaking out because I'm late for a flight, let's say. Yeah, but now there'll just be more moments where I'm like, I'm just freaking out, you know, like, that's. That's kind of how it feels.

Kunal Nayyar (47:14)

Have you seen the video of Ram Dass was always obsessed with getting the mics right? In every video of his, like, in every. And he's just sitting there. He's just trying to play with this mic. He's looking back. He's so upset because the mic is not working. And I'm like, ah, the play. This is literally the play.

Pete Holmes (47:29)

Well, his. His guru Maharaji would yell at the staff and stuff. People would get the dinner room and, like, yell and throw stuff. This is the sort of category of, like, Indian spirituality that I don't think translates well to the west, where we're like, but you're supposed to be nice. I feel like the. You correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like in India there's more of an appreciation for, like, the quirky guru who's just kind of on a trip and having, like, a moment.

Kunal Nayyar (47:56)

You're just. You're just completely rooted in your reality and whatever that is.

Pete Holmes (48:01)

Right, right.

Kunal Nayyar (48:02)

And also, I think every single person, if you're listening to this, I think regardless of what you believe in, I think it's important to question who you are.

Pete Holmes (48:11)

Self inquiry, you mean?

Kunal Nayyar (48:13)

Yes. Because your entire life, you have psychologically just. I don't think there's a difference. Is that re just really exploring what life looks like if for this next five minutes, I drop everything I have ever known.

Pete Holmes (48:27)

Yeah, that's like the Moji meditation.

Kunal Nayyar (48:29)

Yeah, that one really changed me.

Pete Holmes (48:31)

Like, come in the room.

Kunal Nayyar (48:32)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (48:32)

Do me a favor.

Kunal Nayyar (48:33)

I. On my. I have a meditation page where I do that meditation a lot.

Pete Holmes (48:36)

Really?

Kunal Nayyar (48:37)

Yeah. That's where I really.

Pete Holmes (48:38)

Invitation to Freedom.

Kunal Nayyar (48:39)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (48:39)

It's on itunes, by the way.

Kunal Nayyar (48:40)

Oh, really? It's a great meditation.

Pete Holmes (48:42)

And there's two versions and one's like 7, 6.99 and one's $3.99. I'm here to tell you, they're the same.

Kunal Nayyar (48:47)

I have both of them.

Pete Holmes (48:48)

Get the 3.991. This is Muji Baba. But he goes. He's inviting you inside a room. But he goes, leave your shoes behind.

Kunal Nayyar (48:58)

Yes.

Pete Holmes (48:58)

Then he goes, and leave your mind.

Kunal Nayyar (49:00)

Yeah, exactly. And leave your likes, leave your dislikes and you can pick them up after you leave.

Pete Holmes (49:06)

And by the way, so I talk about doing gamine or something, all of those journeys, you just go if you want to. If you're feeling anxious, you go, it'll be back, It'll be back. Like, I've done some pretty strong psychedelics and to be.

Kunal Nayyar (49:19)

Even in that moment, you know, it's gonna.

Pete Holmes (49:21)

You just go, it'll be back. That's. I think that's the last thing I said to myself. I did 5 Meo DMT and I was like, you'll be back.

Kunal Nayyar (49:29)

I don't know any words you just said.

Pete Holmes (49:31)

5 Meo DMT is. Is toad venom. It's like a very, very.

Kunal Nayyar (49:34)

Oh, boy.

Pete Holmes (49:35)

Straight, strong psychedelic. And I did it. But I was like, you'll be back. And then you know what else I said? I. My mantra for that was I trust myself. Meaning there's only one self and I'm doing this. And like, it's sort of like, what could it be other than myself? I know it could be something unpleasant, but, like, it'll still be me, but.

Kunal Nayyar (49:56)

It'Ll be part of you. That unpleasantness will live.

Pete Holmes (49:59)

I suppose I just had. Honestly, as I'm saying it right now, I'm like, that's kind of risky, actually, like, psychologically. That doesn't sound like.

Kunal Nayyar (50:06)

I don't think that's.

Pete Holmes (50:07)

Yeah, that's not a good strategy. Just because people do have psychic breaks on that stuff. I. I was very deliberate with my setting and. And my intentions and all that, for whatever that's worth.

Kunal Nayyar (50:17)

No, but you also must have. I would be terrified. I did chocolate mushrooms once and I had the greatest time, but that was it.

Pete Holmes (50:24)

Oh, really?

Kunal Nayyar (50:24)

Yeah, I did. Yeah. I just started laughing. Yeah, Everything. I think, like, that's it. I mean, I didn't.

Pete Holmes (50:31)

You can do ketamine legally and therapeutically, and I think. I think you would like it.

Kunal Nayyar (50:35)

Muchas I think it'll be good for me because a lot of sort of my psychological phobias and all, all stem from the fear of losing control, fear of embarrassment. Very good. Indian boy. That kind of stuff.

Pete Holmes (50:47)

Like, oh, interesting.

Kunal Nayyar (50:48)

Why? What if I get a panic in an airport with a million people here, and they know me, I'm big, and will I be embarrassed? And how do I control what happens in this elevator? Or how can I control if I'm on the top of a mountain and I begin to panic? Like those things.

Pete Holmes (51:03)

That's interesting. I wonder if I. Because I've never really felt fearful talking about my psychedelic experience. Maybe I'm getting it from you that I was like, what was I doing? Like, I've always just been like, cannonball. It was fine.

Kunal Nayyar (51:14)

No, but that's amazing. I think that there is. And also we've spoken a little bit about your journey through substances and all of that stuff and getting off of them. Like, there must have been this real sense that you have of abandonment, which I think is so amazing.

Pete Holmes (51:31)

Well, that's the trust. That's what the mind will never say. It's a good idea.

Kunal Nayyar (51:35)

Never.

Pete Holmes (51:35)

That's why you just have to go, like, I trust it. It's okay. You're not going to understand it. The moth is going into the flame, but it's going to rematerialize as a moth afterwards. But in my experience, ketamine can be very gentle and easy because you can step it up as you go. So you'll be Kunal. You'll be Kunal kind of feeling very groovy. You'll be Kunal, feeling very groovy. And then you'll go into, like, the void. And when you're in the void, just like you're saying about your experience, it's exact same language, you go, oh, it was me the whole time. Nothing new emerges in all of these experiences. You come back and go, it was me the whole time. Meaning something different played on the. In the movie, but I was the screen the whole time.

Kunal Nayyar (52:16)

So a drug addict, let's say, who would get addicted to something like this, And I know nothing about drugs, but they just want to. The void becomes the reality. And they think that that's. They wanted to stay on that.

Pete Holmes (52:29)

I think. I wonder. I don't know.

Kunal Nayyar (52:31)

Yeah, I don't know.

Pete Holmes (52:32)

I think if. I wondered many times, like, if people that. Do I have to imagine that heroin has to have some sort of quality like that, obviously, that you're just like, I just want to be there the whole time. I don't know. I can't speak to that.

Kunal Nayyar (52:44)

This is not going to make the video. It's okay.

Pete Holmes (52:46)

It made it. There's no edit. Can you make it warmer, Katie? I mean, Colder. I feel like, let's put it at 69. The funniest.

Kunal Nayyar (52:56)

Now to make a joke. Didn't you?

Pete Holmes (52:57)

I did.

Kunal Nayyar (52:58)

People are gonna be like, pete Holmes, I love. You are a good.

Pete Holmes (53:02)

You're a good Indian. British Indian man. That is like, I hope people like this. Let's give the people what they want. How many times did you audition for Big Bang? What was that process like?

Kunal Nayyar (53:14)

It was. It was early days. I had just got my MFA in acting and I moved to la. And then it was my first by the season. Don't kill me.

Pete Holmes (53:22)

And because most times people do like 10 or 12 and then.

Kunal Nayyar (53:26)

And I auditioned on a Monday, screen tested for Warner Brothers on a Wednesday, then screen tested for CBS the following Wednesday. And then I got the part.

Pete Holmes (53:39)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (53:39)

But I got the part. We shot the pilot show gets picked up. I read about it in the news. They fly everyone to New York except for me. So I'm like, oh. At the time, because I had just graduated, there was some concern from the powers to be that maybe I wasn't the right person for the role. Too young, maybe inexperienced or whatever. You know, I was just a. You know, I just come out of graduate school. I hadn't had a lot of experience in film and tv. Course, I was a theater nerd, you know, and. And Chuck Lori, who created the show, was like, no, you're definitely on the show. And. And made everything happen for me. So I owe him my life.

Pete Holmes (54:16)

Oh, he, like, stepped up.

Kunal Nayyar (54:17)

I owe him my life. I mean, he's one of the greatest mentors I've ever had. And he's just been. He was my rock. But imagine I'm on the show, but I don't know if I'm on the show and. Oh, wow. Three months went by of them filming. No. Before we started shooting this whole summer. Because the show gets picked up in May and you don't start shooting till August. So there's three months. You're just like, what is my, you know, life gonna be? Wow. So.

Pete Holmes (54:40)

And he.

Kunal Nayyar (54:42)

He always fought for me. Yeah. I don't think.

Pete Holmes (54:44)

But there was. There was a fight.

Kunal Nayyar (54:46)

I don't know how. How serious that fight was, but I think there was that. I think there was, at least in the beginning, some apprehension to cast such a newcomer.

Pete Holmes (54:56)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (54:56)

On what could potentially be a huge show for C. Right.

Pete Holmes (54:59)

They're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kunal Nayyar (55:02)

And also. Yeah. And it's a Chuck Lorre show. Two and a Half Men was a huge hit at the time. Like, this is going to be the next Chuck Lorry show. So the stakes are very high.

Pete Holmes (55:09)

Can I ask. You're a theater guy.

Kunal Nayyar (55:13)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (55:13)

Got an MFA in acting. And then you moved to la and then you auditioned for a Chuck Lorrie multicam. I shouldn't say a Chuck Lorre multicam. Just a multicam on cbs. Was there any like. This isn't. This isn't Macbeth.

Kunal Nayyar (55:28)

No, no, no. Not for me.

Pete Holmes (55:29)

Okay.

Kunal Nayyar (55:29)

I always loved. I grew up in India. We grew up on all multi cams.

Pete Holmes (55:33)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (55:34)

And by the way, people who don't know multi camera shows are shot in front of a live audience.

Pete Holmes (55:38)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (55:39)

So you have. It's like doing a play every week.

Pete Holmes (55:41)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (55:41)

There wasn't. Not snobbery about.

Pete Holmes (55:43)

I'm so glad.

Kunal Nayyar (55:44)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (55:44)

As I asked that, I was like, I really hope you were enjoying it because I know I wrote on a multi camera.

Kunal Nayyar (55:50)

I enjoyed every single moment. Every day. Every moment you did was the greatest. No, I. I'm so lucky. I swear to God. It was a great set. Very happy. Everyone got along. You know, we were family for 12 years. So obviously you have little things here and there, but nothing. We all. I mean, we loved each other and the. Right everyone. It was just a great experience. And we were very. Remember, we were also at the time, Glee, Modern Family. What else was doing? Well, chalk.

Pete Holmes (56:16)

It was like a golden age.

Kunal Nayyar (56:18)

And there were so many shows and they were all so popular like in the tabloids and this and that. And we were just very private, very close set policy, all about the work. And I think that really protected us because look at what happened to so many cast members of Glee. Look. What happened is so. Money and fame can really do so many. Unfortunately, so many horrible things. I feel like we had a rock.

Pete Holmes (56:41)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (56:42)

With Big Bang.

Pete Holmes (56:43)

Wow. And that was deliberate. Do you think? Chuck was like, let's protect the set. Let's protect the 100?

Kunal Nayyar (56:48)

I think he was. And also every. I mean, Jim, Johnny, Kaylee, you know, everyone's. Everyone's about the work. And then that's so important.

Pete Holmes (56:57)

You know, it was never like, Galecki has a sauna in his green room. I don't have a sauna.

Kunal Nayyar (57:02)

No.

Pete Holmes (57:03)

Never.

Kunal Nayyar (57:04)

No. Galecki did not. Have you seen a wonder? Have you ever been to the old stages of Warner Brothers?

Pete Holmes (57:08)

Of course.

Kunal Nayyar (57:08)

When I started the show in 2007, I had a rotary phone. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (57:16)

People probably don't even know what that is.

Kunal Nayyar (57:18)

It's the phone. When you do that 2007 rotary phone in your.

Pete Holmes (57:21)

In your room.

Kunal Nayyar (57:22)

Brown colored rotary phone. I should have stolen it because now they're worth like five grand or whatever.

Pete Holmes (57:27)

Are they?

Kunal Nayyar (57:27)

I don't know.

Pete Holmes (57:29)

Throwback. Lo fi.

Kunal Nayyar (57:30)

I should have. Yeah. No, I mean.

Pete Holmes (57:32)

So it wasn't fancy pants.

Kunal Nayyar (57:33)

It wasn't fancy pants.

Pete Holmes (57:35)

Did you guys eat lunch together?

Kunal Nayyar (57:36)

Yeah, it was all. Yeah, we all hung out, you know, because our schedule was in the day we would rehearse, and then at night we'd be home. So we all ate together, played ping pong. Wow. Hung out. It was great.

Pete Holmes (57:46)

I can. I'm gonna load you with this, like rehearsing a multicam. It's Monday.

Kunal Nayyar (57:51)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (57:52)

The script is still wobbly.

Kunal Nayyar (57:54)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (57:54)

But you're kind of rehearsing it, kind of blocking it. You're doing a scene. It didn't really work at the table, so, you know, it's probably going to get cut or change. We're still kind of rehearsing it. That's maybe my favorite thing. It's like low stakes, but, you know, maybe I'll be over here. It's just total flow and play. Did it feel casual like that or were you like, oh, my God, 100 million people are gonna watch this. We gotta get it fucking right?

Kunal Nayyar (58:19)

I think it was a mixture. Especially in the earlier days, it was a lot more tight, you know what I mean? The scripts were so good and our table reads were fantastic. And we all took our table reads very seriously. So we had already gone and made all the choices for the jokes. We'd all. Everyone with the table reads is what set the tone, really. And then we had a director, Mark Zindrowski, who directed about 97. I know. Yeah, yeah. Mark directed, like, I think out of 279 episodes, maybe 250. Yeah, he's the best. He always set the tone on set, too. So he was always fun, but always about the work, like, you know what I mean? So it was really. Yeah, we were. But everyone took every moment, really.

Pete Holmes (58:55)

He directed almost every episode of How We Roll Cinder and he was just so.

Kunal Nayyar (58:58)

So. You know what I mean? He had a great. I'm telling you, he had a great energy.

Pete Holmes (59:01)

I had one season of a multicam and I was like, it's not just that. It's like, good schedule, good money. It's like, this is just. Like I said, people pointed in the same direction and it's going to happen, so there's an urgency. We're gonna have tape night. So there's a clock on it. It's like we thrive in that situation.

Kunal Nayyar (59:23)

I love it.

Pete Holmes (59:23)

We're really losing something by not doing one.

Kunal Nayyar (59:26)

I know, we should do one.

Pete Holmes (59:27)

I would love to do one. Are you nuts? I write multicams all the time.

Kunal Nayyar (59:31)

Really?

Pete Holmes (59:31)

My wife and I were deciding whether or not to have two kids or one. And I wrote a multi cam. It was like a journal, a multi.

Kunal Nayyar (59:38)

Cam pilot about the journey.

Pete Holmes (59:40)

A couple deciding whether or not they should have one or two. That's how much I love the language of it and that's how much I enjoy writing it. So we'll do it. What's our idea? We work it in there.

Kunal Nayyar (59:49)

I have to figure it out.

Pete Holmes (59:50)

Wings. So you enjoyed it and you were able to enjoy it. This makes me so happy.

Kunal Nayyar (59:57)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (59:58)

The whole cast.

Kunal Nayyar (59:59)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (59:59)

Everyone vibing.

Kunal Nayyar (60:00)

Vibing. Just great.

Pete Holmes (60:02)

That makes me so happy. Again, I don't want to drag any show, but I've been on some multicams where I'm like, why aren't they having fun? They should be having. Not just okay, but this should be fun. It's like summer camp talent night. You're preparing a play for yourselves.

Kunal Nayyar (60:21)

But I've also been on somewhere. I guest starred and stuff like that. And it wasn't the sense of. And I think the writing, I mean, I have to go. The writing was so good on Big Bang.

Pete Holmes (60:31)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (60:31)

It's a joy to read these scripts. You know what I mean? It was. Every moment was a joy because you. And everyone's laughing and the show's doing well and everyone. So there was a real. It was funny for us. It was fun for us, you know?

Pete Holmes (60:43)

Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (60:44)

Mostly on a multi camera and you're grinding to get the joke right. You're trying to get the scripts right. You're trying to get stress, whatever system the writers had.

Pete Holmes (60:50)

Well, speaking of Chuck, the first time I saw Chuck Lorre's face was in a Roseanne documentary you can watch on YouTube. And it's just brutal. Like it's brutal. And I don't mean specific, I don't know. But it's the height of Roseanne and it is tight. And it's just Chuck, a young Chuck Lorre looking like he's keeping it together but working till 4am trying to get these notes. And I was like, boy, you can make anything heaven and you can make anything hell.

Kunal Nayyar (61:24)

It seems like he also just. I remember going to him once and I had dealing with something and I said to him I was dealing with someone in my life. And I. And I said, hey, can we chat? He's like, sure, sure. And I went on this rant about something and 20 minutes later, he just looks at Me, he's like, did you ever think of choosing love?

Pete Holmes (61:41)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (61:42)

And I was like, oh, yeah, you're right. And I just thought, oh, wow. You do not. I did not expect. I thought he would give me very nice, like, fatherly advice. Ever think of choosing love?

Pete Holmes (61:54)

He just said, have you ever thought of choosing love? And you do forget, by the way, that that's what you're doing. Yeah, I know. It's a cliche. Fear, hate, judgment, or love. And we do have this, like, mechanism.

Kunal Nayyar (62:07)

Well, the more. Again, when we go back to what we were talking about earlier, the more time you spend spend on having some distance between the filter of how you see the world. You know, when you have some distance from this or maybe this just drops off, then you don't. That your instant reaction of anything is trying to make situation better because it's not rubbing up against your egoic side. Right. Which is mainly the cause of everything in this world.

Pete Holmes (62:33)

That's right. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (62:34)

It's like defending a fantasy, defending your illusion.

Pete Holmes (62:38)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (62:38)

That's why you're so exhausted all the time, is holding up this thing that you don't really know is real.

Pete Holmes (62:45)

Yeah, that's right.

Kunal Nayyar (62:45)

But you, you think is real.

Pete Holmes (62:47)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (62:48)

And in order to protect it, it's like, you know, it's like punching and like doing air box. But if you do shadow box, shadow boxing, it's exhausting.

Pete Holmes (62:55)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (62:56)

Because you're punching against an invisible enemy.

Pete Holmes (62:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what Rupert says. And I do this all the time. He goes, if you're getting worked up or you've been slighted or insulted, Rupert just goes, on whose behalf are you getting mad? And I'm like. And he goes, show them to me.

Kunal Nayyar (63:13)

Show them to me.

Pete Holmes (63:14)

And like everything that you are, it's like sand underwater. It's coming and going, but you just kind of like. It's why burning man at the end, they burn that big old man, they're.

Kunal Nayyar (63:23)

Just like, oh, I didn't know that. I don't know anything about burning.

Pete Holmes (63:26)

I've always assumed, to be honest, that it's like, this is the ego, this is the false self. We're burning it down. Drop it. It's gone.

Kunal Nayyar (63:33)

I just didn't. I don't know. Doesn't seem like there's many places to shower there. So I didn't feel like going.

Pete Holmes (63:38)

I think there's a big human car wash that everyone just goes in naked and there's just bubbles. I'm not even making this up.

Kunal Nayyar (63:46)

You're making this Up.

Pete Holmes (63:47)

I'm not making it up. You go in and you just kind of.

Kunal Nayyar (63:49)

Why don't you have someone on from, like, the burning. Like, is there a Burning man expert or something?

Pete Holmes (63:54)

I think everyone who goes to Burning man is like, I'm a Burning man expert. I have a lot. Moshe goes to Burning Man. He's talked to us about. About Burning Man. He's the one who told me about the Dr. Bronner. It's Dr. Bronner's, and they just spray you down.

Kunal Nayyar (64:07)

Jesus.

Pete Holmes (64:08)

And I'm talking about sex shame. I'm always like, what? First of all, of course, I'd love to be in a human car wash, just slipping and sliding, but I'm also like. So my wife is just gonna go in there. Like, I get very like, look, I want to grab everybody, but I don't want anyone grabbing my thing.

Kunal Nayyar (64:27)

You know what I mean?

Pete Holmes (64:27)

Like, I'll get real tight.

Kunal Nayyar (64:29)

Of course. Human nature.

Pete Holmes (64:32)

It is. It can be.

Kunal Nayyar (64:33)

Have you spoken to Rupert Spirit about that?

Pete Holmes (64:35)

About the naked. Like, I want to go in, but is someone gonna.

Kunal Nayyar (64:39)

I don't want anyone grabbing my wife.

Pete Holmes (64:41)

I know.

Kunal Nayyar (64:41)

I want to get Mr. Grabbyhans.

Pete Holmes (64:43)

But why does every. No, why does every cult. And I'm not saying Rupert's a cult. Certainly not. I'm saying it made me think of every cult go sideways because of sex or guns or both. It always. I just watched the one.

Kunal Nayyar (64:57)

Oh, sure.

Pete Holmes (64:58)

Oh, show. Well, it's funny. Osho got so goofy, but it was so. Sheila. I'm not an OSHO apologist. I just know friends that still are like, listen to Osho. He's got some really great.

Kunal Nayyar (65:07)

I love Osho still.

Pete Holmes (65:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, my friend Michael Gunger loves. Oh, show.

Kunal Nayyar (65:11)

I love what he has to say.

Pete Holmes (65:12)

You can get osha. So there's people still holding on to Osho, going, like, the organization was goofy, but we still like Osho. Yeah, but I. The guy who owned Yogi Tea. What's his name?

Kunal Nayyar (65:22)

Yogananda? No. Oh, it's.

Pete Holmes (65:26)

It's with an R, I think.

Kunal Nayyar (65:28)

Oh, God. The Sikh gentleman.

Pete Holmes (65:30)

Katie. Oh, Google it.

Kunal Nayyar (65:32)

The Sikh gentleman, Yogi Bhajan.

Pete Holmes (65:35)

Yogi Bhajan? Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (65:36)

Yogi Bhajan. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (65:37)

And he was grooming and fucking. I mean, I'm not. No shots fired. That's what this documentary I watched was all about. Sex. Sex ruins everything.

Kunal Nayyar (65:48)

When you have a. Some of these teachers have such incredibly manipulative gifts.

Pete Holmes (65:54)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (65:54)

That they don't think that they're using for manipulation.

Pete Holmes (65:58)

Right, right, right.

Kunal Nayyar (65:59)

Whatever they have, it's like a superpower. Yes. And clearly people aren't just idiots to move to an island and live with their guru. There's a magnetic, there's something there. Who are willing to give up their entire lives and families and go to these places and become parts of cults. I'm not excusing. I mean it's, you're right. Why is it always revolved around sex? Maybe there is a certain freedom that comes with. I don't know.

Pete Holmes (66:26)

And that's one thing. But then you just go like, let's just put some parameters on. You're so close to utopia. Just don't do it with the kids or don't do it with the. I mean, I don't know.

Kunal Nayyar (66:39)

Yeah, no, no, I know, I know. I, I, there's no excuse. There's no excuse. It was say if you go watch back and watch that Osho documentary, which I think hurt his image a lot more than what he did damage to. He wasn't he was he. He also changed a lot of people's lives for the better. But everyone who talks about those three years in Oregon talks about it like it was the greatest thing to have ever existed.

Pete Holmes (66:59)

This is my point. You watch these documentaries and I'm screaming at the TV going like, just stop here. Yeah, yeah, like, because the Kundalini. So yep, Yogi Bhajan was doing Kundalini. He brought Kundalini. And people are talking about, I kicked this addiction. I was feeling euphoric and I lost this neuroses, all of this stuff. And that is just the first 30 minutes. And then the last hour is it gets Bikram yoga. Bikram, another great, another horrible example.

Kunal Nayyar (67:32)

Bought hot yoga. And then so caught.

Pete Holmes (67:35)

Yo.

Kunal Nayyar (67:35)

And by the way, and again, also sexual.

Pete Holmes (67:37)

It is sex and it's the same thing. It's grooming and power and sex. And nobody, it seems, can handle this. Whenever I watch these things too, there's always a part where they go like. And it turns out he was just making it up. And I'm always like, you tell me. I'm like, I don't know about that. Because they always claim that it was an ancient Indian thing. And then like, how thorough are you looking? Are these things even written down? You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I don't know if it's all nonsense. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

Kunal Nayyar (68:06)

It does. I mean, you know, obviously Bikram was a very accomplished yoga teacher. And then the hot stuff, he just started on his own, I think because he doesn't really talk about that. Yeah, but look, I mean, when The Vedas are 5,000 years old, they're probably the greatest scripts ever written. You know, spiritual texts ever written, in my opinion.

Pete Holmes (68:26)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (68:28)

You can emulate on those things, but it's the same thing we're talking about that they were talking about 5,000 years ago. Same thing Jesus is talking about. The same thing Buddha is talking about.

Pete Holmes (68:37)

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Kunal Nayyar (68:39)

Right? It's just, it's, it's all the same. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (68:43)

And we have to rediscover it and rediscover it and rediscover it and rediscover.

Kunal Nayyar (68:46)

Until you discover it and then you don't come back.

Pete Holmes (68:48)

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Kunal Nayyar (71:28)

No, you're going to.

Pete Holmes (71:30)

What are some of the teachings that have really kind of become principles in your life?

Kunal Nayyar (71:35)

So I don't meditate anymore the way I used to. I don't really have a specific practice. I kind of fell into meditation, which means if I'm just driving, I'm just driving.

Pete Holmes (71:45)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (71:46)

You know what I mean? Or if I'm just. I can sit.

Pete Holmes (71:47)

Me too. I don't meditate either. Just so you don't feel ashamed. I don't formally meditate.

Kunal Nayyar (71:52)

I don't formally meditate, but my life is meditation. Like, I'll sit. I love cigars. So, like, I'll sit in the evening and I'll smoke a cigar and I'll just be. There'll be nothing going on.

Pete Holmes (72:00)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (72:00)

Other than the smoking of a cigar.

Pete Holmes (72:02)

Nice.

Kunal Nayyar (72:02)

Can we make sense anytime? Anytime, please.

Pete Holmes (72:07)

Because that sounds amazing.

Kunal Nayyar (72:09)

Yeah. Well, for me, again, coming back to questioning my thoughts. Like, if I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If. I'm sorry.

Pete Holmes (72:22)

I was thinking about cigars. You caught me.

Kunal Nayyar (72:23)

I got you.

Pete Holmes (72:24)

Did you see me being. I was a little bit like, that'll be fun.

Kunal Nayyar (72:28)

Anything. Keep going.

Pete Holmes (72:29)

So not being your thoughts. Disidentifying.

Kunal Nayyar (72:32)

I'm always going back to the silence. Always anything. So it's not like I. I love reading. Roomy Hafiz. I like to read. I try not to read too much anymore because I was going so nuts reading spiritual texts. So I try not to. I went too deep. So now it's like just a little bit. You know, when I want Dessert, you know?

Pete Holmes (72:52)

Yeah, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (72:53)

But mainly if I'm in a place where I'm going through something psychologically, I just come back absolute to the silence.

Pete Holmes (73:00)

Silence? Yeah. That's the highest teaching.

Kunal Nayyar (73:02)

Yeah, Come back to that.

Pete Holmes (73:04)

And what's crazy about silence to me is that. I don't know, I think this will make sense to you. I want it to make sense to everybody. If you are experiencing silence, there's still a frame rate to it. It's still going. So it's not silent, it's not inactive. So that silence is very alive and luminous. And it's what you are. And the brain will always. I know we already said this, but it bears repeating. The brain will always go, there's nothing here.

Kunal Nayyar (73:33)

Yeah, that's mooji.

Pete Holmes (73:34)

There's nothing here. This is boring.

Kunal Nayyar (73:35)

Yeah. I want, I want, I want, I want.

Pete Holmes (73:38)

What, what is, what is silence? What is emptiness? What is a void actually? And you. When I say frame rate, that's one way I can go. Like when you're looking at perfect darkness, you can still see a frame rate to it and that gives a hint to its aliveness, if that makes sense. It's a very LA way of putting it.

Kunal Nayyar (73:58)

Well, everything is alive, even the silent. But I feel like when I'm silent then I can actually truly see.

Pete Holmes (74:08)

I like that.

Kunal Nayyar (74:09)

Do you know? Of course, otherwise I'm just seeing it through this gunk that's here. And I don't. I want to be careful here because I think this also gets. This also gets misconstrued. Just because you want some space from a psychological nature does not mean your psychological nature is bad.

Pete Holmes (74:29)

That's right. You're just looking for peace a little, a little rest, a little, a little break.

Kunal Nayyar (74:34)

Yeah. It doesn't mean that only when you free yourself from yourself, then you are yourself. This I think gets sort of modern day spirituality is all about ego, death and dying before you die and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, well let's say you die before you die, but you're still here, right?

Pete Holmes (74:52)

Well, now we get into tantra, which everybody thinks is sex. Yeah, but tantra is just. I always think of a T going down like a jackhammer. So in the Vedantic, it's like a V. So you stand apart from it. You go, here's me, here are my thoughts. That's Vedanta. I am not my thoughts. Tantra is, let's go deeply into. That's how I remember. Go deeply into the experience and get so curious about what is it when I'm eating cake. And you see that it's made of the knowing of this flavor, this experience, sensation. And that knowing is God. You know what I mean? So you start. Nothing is mundane. Swimming in the ocean, having sex, smoking a cigar, having a conversation is suddenly revealed to have always been imbued with divinity. But that's. That's going.

Kunal Nayyar (75:46)

That's not true.

Pete Holmes (75:48)

So we're not running to the hills. I can do it on my best comedy nights, doing comedy. I'm like, oh, my God. We are an undulating wave of consciousness, joyfully laughing. And when growing up, I'd be like, swearing and talking about butts. That's the devil. You know what I mean?

Kunal Nayyar (76:08)

Yeah. I'm sure you had. And now all you do is talk about butts.

Pete Holmes (76:11)

All I do is butt stuff. That would be a great title for a special butt stuff. You had to have moments where you were doing Big Bang or anything that you've acted in where you're like, we're in it. We're in a flow. We're out of our own way.

Kunal Nayyar (76:24)

It's the best. I mean, that's why I became an actor, because in my junior year, I was a theater student in Portland, Oregon, and I was on stage doing the rose tattoo, and I had to put a shirt. Like, my character puts on the silk shirt and has to pretend it's silk or whatever, but it's. You know, it's college, so it's some cheap material. And I put it on and I'm like this character, and I'm feeling the shirt on my skin. And for a second, I have. I've gone. There's no. I'm not there. I am that character putting on a silk shirt. It lasts for a second. I call it searching for truth. And in that moment, I knew my whole life is going to be about searching for this moment, vanishing into a character.

Pete Holmes (77:06)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (77:07)

That was it. That's why I became an actor. Because now in every scene and everything I ever do, I'm always just trying to search for that moment.

Pete Holmes (77:13)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (77:13)

And you get it sometimes, and sometimes you don't. You know, Actor, you know?

Pete Holmes (77:16)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (77:17)

Sometimes you get it, and sometimes you don't.

Pete Holmes (77:18)

Sometimes you're just singing a song that.

Kunal Nayyar (77:20)

You'Ve never heard before or you're hitting a mark.

Pete Holmes (77:23)

Do you remember that scene we did? I was like, I don't know what this song is. I'll try.

Kunal Nayyar (77:27)

It's so funny.

Pete Holmes (77:30)

No, I. I know what you mean. But you can get into that groove. That's my favorite. I'm Gonna move us away from spiritual stuff. We'll just talk about other stuff, I suppose, if we can. I don't know if we can, but I love the metaphor of so we are awareness in the way that, like, an actor, John Smith, is playing King Lear. And when you play King Lear so well that you think you are King Lear, and after this show, people come back and go, great show. And you're like, what? I'm King Lear? Like, you're lost in it. But really, you couldn't be any closer to John Smith. Like, he goes, what does King Lear need to do to become John Smith? He already is John Smith.

Kunal Nayyar (78:08)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (78:09)

The King Lear is the activity of John Smith's. There's only John Smith. And when you can, like, get that, you go like, there's nothing to do. I told you this one of the times we talked. It's written on my mirror. You can't become what you already are. You already are it what you're.

Kunal Nayyar (78:25)

So I said, same thing. Which is what you're searching for is already where you're searching from. Saint Francis of Assisi.

Pete Holmes (78:31)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (78:31)

You are the thing you're searching for.

Pete Holmes (78:33)

Right. And that's the diamond in your pocket. And then when you realize that it's not fireworks and, like, speaking in tongues and.

Kunal Nayyar (78:39)

Or.

Pete Holmes (78:39)

Or Eckhart Tolle sitting on a park bench, some people have those experiences, but a lot of us are just going like, oh. And then it spends the rest of your life trying to abide there.

Kunal Nayyar (78:49)

There's a great saying, and I've completely forgotten it. And I was trying to remember. When I look outside and I see everything, I know that I am love. And when I look inside and I see nothing, I know that I am God. And in between those two coins, this.

Pete Holmes (79:08)

Is also written on my mirror. What is it? I said I am everything. Wisdom says I am nothing. Between these two, my life flows.

Kunal Nayyar (79:16)

That's what it is.

Pete Holmes (79:16)

Yeah. I like the way you said it, though.

Kunal Nayyar (79:18)

I said it kind of wrong. It's the accent. It's the accent. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (79:21)

Oh, yeah. White people love this.

Kunal Nayyar (79:22)

I know.

Pete Holmes (79:23)

I'm ready to follow you.

Kunal Nayyar (79:26)

Follow me.

Pete Holmes (79:29)

So do you have kids?

Kunal Nayyar (79:30)

No kids.

Pete Holmes (79:31)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (79:31)

We talked about no kids.

Pete Holmes (79:32)

But you are married.

Kunal Nayyar (79:33)

Married. No kids. No desire.

Pete Holmes (79:34)

No desire.

Kunal Nayyar (79:36)

No desire. No offense. If your kids want to hang out.

Pete Holmes (79:38)

No kids, no desire. No offense.

Kunal Nayyar (79:40)

Yeah, yeah. There's your bumper. I think we're living. I mean, obviously, you know, also, my culture is so. Indian culture is really about, you know, family and marriage and children.

Pete Holmes (79:49)

You Might have just caught me having an Indian bias. Or I'm like, what?

Kunal Nayyar (79:52)

Yeah, no, it's. But it's. But also, in this day and age, it's quite unheard. Well, now it's changing. I don't know. Yeah, I guess it is changing, right, People. Don't we have so many people in the world?

Pete Holmes (80:02)

There's so many. You know, Terence McKenna took mushrooms and he said, how do we. What. What's one thing we could do to help the planet? And it said, the wisdom of all these mushrooms apparently said everyone should have one kid. That's what it said. It was like it would solve everything, really. Well, look at what we're. I mean, that's a lot of mouth. I'm not, by the way, have as many kids as you want. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, as a thought experiment, what would happen? You could say, what would happen if everybody was vegan? That's an interesting one. What would happen if everybody only had one kid? What if we took a big break and only some people had kids? Would have a dramatic effect on the. On the planet, obviously.

Kunal Nayyar (80:40)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (80:41)

And you're talking to a breeder right here. So I'm not saying that's my plan, but.

Kunal Nayyar (80:45)

How many children do you have? 40.

Pete Holmes (80:47)

No, just one.

Kunal Nayyar (80:48)

Okay. That's not breeding.

Pete Holmes (80:49)

That's nothing. That's barely. That's cake and eat it too. Somebody said, you have one kid, it's part of your life. You have two kids, it's your life. So we're like, check, please. Yeah, we're done.

Kunal Nayyar (81:00)

Okay, good.

Pete Holmes (81:01)

I wrote a multicam about it. Have you ever seen a ghost or had anything unexplainable happen to you?

Kunal Nayyar (81:09)

Yes, I had a ghost experience in London in 2021 of the Dorchester Hotel.

Pete Holmes (81:16)

Scary ghost. British ghost.

Kunal Nayyar (81:19)

Not. I was. It was. I basically. It was around. Covert. Ish. I was shooting a show there, staying at the Dorchester, fifth floor. I'm sleeping and I feel the indentation in the bed rise next to me. And then I hear two feet, little feet, like this.

Pete Holmes (81:36)

Wait, you feel what? In the bed?

Kunal Nayyar (81:38)

Like, the indentation. Like. Like I feel like I'm sleeping and I feel like there's like something that's like. Like getting up. And I look up and I'm like. I look up and I know, and I'm very peaceful. And I hear feet. Close the bedroom door, then close the living room and leave. And I'm like, I am completely in the presence of a ghost here. Completely. I knew I wasn't scared. Calm. Then I put the TV on because I needed something to just, like, bring me back. And I slept with the tv. And then the next day, I was googling. And the fifth floor of the Dorchester apparently is haunted. And Gary Oldman was staying there with his manager while they were shooting Slow Horses. Got obsessed with the ghosts on the fifth floor of the Dorchester and is now doing a whole documentary about them. And then I spoke to another friend of mine, and she said she's kind of a clairvoyant. She said, oh, yeah, I see them at the Dorchester all the time. Apparently on the fifth floor, right, there's a little kid. And I was like, yeah, that was the kid I saw.

Pete Holmes (82:37)

He chose your bed, bro. He's a fan.

Kunal Nayyar (82:39)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (82:43)

That'S a good one. I'm glad I asked. You know, it's funny. People are gonna laugh because people do often turn this around on me. And it's my cat, the ghost of my cat. If I go and visit my parents and I go in my childhood bedroom, I don't sleep there anymore. But when I did, every morning, reliably, my cat, I'd feel the indentation of my cat walking on the bed and curl up next to me, totally peaceful. And it was a hundred awake. I'd wake up and then I'd wait for him.

Kunal Nayyar (83:10)

Wow. And you're completely present.

Pete Holmes (83:12)

Completely.

Kunal Nayyar (83:13)

That's what people don't. Yeah, people don't realize. They get scared. But it's not actually when you're in the real presence of a ghost. Yeah, you're like, completely aware. It's like the most real thing.

Pete Holmes (83:20)

Yeah, it's very, very real. Very precious and very sweet. Mine is very sweet. It's my cat cuddling up against me, and I know he's coming. Like, I would wake up before he did it, and then I would feel him come up and curl up next to me. But reliably every time I stayed at home.

Kunal Nayyar (83:36)

I'm very sensitive to energies, though. Like, I shot a movie in New Orleans, and no offense to the city or anything, but I felt energetically something very different there. And then I read a lot of black magic Happens there. Felt the same thing in two other cities, Manchester, and recently in Edinburgh. And when I did research on all those cities, there is an element of sort of spiritual magic that apparently rubs my energy in kind of an uncomfortable, unsettling way.

Pete Holmes (84:03)

Have you ever liked, gone to a clairvoyant or a psychic and know something?

Kunal Nayyar (84:07)

I've spoken to some clairvoyance, and some of that stuff's obviously Private. So I won't talk about it, but.

Pete Holmes (84:16)

No, go ahead.

Kunal Nayyar (84:16)

Just in general. Just in general. I think I'm just upset.

Pete Holmes (84:20)

Su.

Kunal Nayyar (84:20)

Like, I can walk into a room, and I can feel what people are feeling.

Pete Holmes (84:23)

Oh, wow.

Kunal Nayyar (84:24)

And it's not good because I'm. I'm so aware if we're in a restaurant, what's going on at every table.

Pete Holmes (84:32)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (84:32)

It makes me insane. And I. I try my best to shut it off. I cannot.

Pete Holmes (84:36)

Yeah. I have the exact same thing.

Kunal Nayyar (84:38)

Do you. Okay. So you know what I'm feeling, and.

Pete Holmes (84:40)

You know what helps is doing stand up. Like, something about that, like, drains that energy, and then I can actually feel comfortable enough in the world to go to a restaurant. But if I'm like, I had brunch with some friends yesterday, and I'm like, I'll say to Val, I'm like, a lot of humanity in here.

Kunal Nayyar (84:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I really admire that. I admire people who have the ability to just be completely present sort of in a group of people doing what they're doing and not really a care in the world. I think that would be so.

Pete Holmes (85:10)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm drawn to Val. And Val, this is.

Kunal Nayyar (85:13)

She's completely just doing what she does there.

Pete Holmes (85:15)

She's having. She's having a croissant. She's.

Kunal Nayyar (85:17)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (85:17)

Living her life. And I don't mean she's like a. She's got neuroses. She's perfect for me, but she's also capable of, like, just have. She was at that brunch. She wasn't worried about the table next to us. I feel like Jason Bourne. I'm like, no, that couple's having a fight.

Kunal Nayyar (85:33)

Hundred same thing.

Pete Holmes (85:34)

Yeah. Hyper things is called.

Kunal Nayyar (85:36)

Or if I meet someone, I'll. I'll know how the day is going. Or I'll know something about their entire.

Pete Holmes (85:41)

Life, which is that other Matt Damon movie where he's a psychic. We're a blend of all Matt Damon.

Kunal Nayyar (85:45)

Which one?

Pete Holmes (85:46)

Clint Eastwood directed it. It wasn't good. It's called, like, Hereafter, I think. I can't believe I pulled that out. Can I tell you this? Last night, I had a dream that I was with my junior high best friend. His name is Earn. He was on this podcast once, and he had a baby, and he goes, that's my fourth baby. He has two kids. And he goes, his name is Beckett. Like, Samuel Beckett. So I text him this morning, and I go, I had a dream I met your fourth baby, and its name was Beckett. And he goes. He just replies like, it's nothing. He goes, I was going to name my son Beckett. I was like, what the fuck is going on here? Why did I. Okay, the least sensational reason, he told me that his kid that he was going to name Beckett is like 14. So 15 years ago, he said, we're thinking about the name Beckett. And I remembered it. I'm totally open to that. That's also a phenomenon. It's amazing that somewhere is everything I've ever heard and I'm just dreaming it. Or I didn't know that, and I guessed that Beckett was the kind of name my friend would give his kid. Or I didn't know that, and I somehow picked that up from him. Like from the collective. All three are. What a.

Kunal Nayyar (86:58)

Well, what's. What's crazier to you? What's crazier to you? That there's one all knowing reality where it's peaceful and loving and kind and wants to enjoy itself and create and birth itself multiple times. So we get to experience itself. Or nothing exists and we are just individual people who have individual personalities. And when we die, we die.

Pete Holmes (87:24)

Right. Which is what is the question? Which is.

Kunal Nayyar (87:27)

Which is crazier to believe?

Pete Holmes (87:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (87:29)

You know, that depends on the person.

Pete Holmes (87:30)

Right? That's one of my. It's always hard to explain and I try every time, but Rupert Spira makes the point that the real blasphemy is to not say that you're part of God. Because then you're drawing a border around you and saying God is infinite except for this little speck called Pete. And that's the true blasphemy. He goes, it's all God's dream.

Kunal Nayyar (87:51)

I guess that's my point. Do you dream a lot?

Pete Holmes (87:55)

I do dream a lot. That's one of my things.

Kunal Nayyar (87:57)

Like crazy dreams.

Pete Holmes (87:58)

Can I tell you in it? Oh, sorry.

Kunal Nayyar (88:00)

No, tell me.

Pete Holmes (88:00)

In anticipation of this. I had. I don't know if you've ever had enlightenment dreams. I had, like in. Here's what it was. I'm in my dream. I know I'm dreaming. I'm looking around. It's exactly like reality. What a gift. I've had enough deep lucid dreams. Not the fluttery ones that are kind of half. I've been deeply asleep and lucid. And I'm telling you because you're not seeing with your eyes right now. I'm seeing with your eyes. 46.

Kunal Nayyar (88:32)

It's a little blurry.

Pete Holmes (88:32)

Maybe this.

Kunal Nayyar (88:33)

44.

Pete Holmes (88:33)

You're seeing perfectly because it's all just in your mind, there's no ocular mechanism, it's just your mind. So. And I, every single time I've done it, I go, this is more real than reality. It's more vivid. I'm touching things. I'm like the grain of wood. So last night I'm doing that and I'm going like, oh, it's all me. It's all me. Everything. And I don't mean me, Pete. I'm like, it's all the. I am. And I had last night because I knew I was going to be talking to you. Like the most delightful dream self realization where the dream is me going like. And you start just being like. And it starts like the Matrix.

Kunal Nayyar (89:15)

It's like a Matrix movie.

Pete Holmes (89:16)

It's exactly like when the walls breathe. With Neo it's like that I'm like. And I just hung out being. And then I was with my friend Michael and I was like, I was so scared. But in the end it was all me. And he was like, I told you.

Kunal Nayyar (89:29)

Oh my. That's so good.

Pete Holmes (89:33)

So, yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (89:33)

My only lucid dream was I was. I was like in a cafe in the mountains and I was like, oh, I'm not feeling so uncomfortable as height. Oh, I'm dreaming I can do anything. And I got off of the table and I started flying through the mountains. Look at what I can do. And then I woke up and I was like, what the hell?

Pete Holmes (89:49)

It's so exciting.

Kunal Nayyar (89:51)

It was so nice.

Pete Holmes (89:51)

That's my. The lucid. My lucid dream tip is if you want to stay asleep, you have to do boring things. If you fly, your heart rate will elevate and you'll wake up.

Kunal Nayyar (90:00)

Okay. That's good for me because I've only had it once. So maybe tonight I'll. I have insane dreams of crazy circumstances, everything. Unfortunately, I don't have any spiritual powers in terms of clairvoyance. I have a lot of friends who do and. But I do dream about natural disasters.

Pete Holmes (90:18)

Oh wow.

Kunal Nayyar (90:19)

So I dream about earthquakes before they happen.

Pete Holmes (90:22)

Oh.

Kunal Nayyar (90:22)

Or dream or plane crashes before they happen. Or I dream about hurricanes. Whenever I have a big weather related event. I feel like a natural disaster is gonna. It's horrible.

Pete Holmes (90:32)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (90:32)

So I don't even talk about it anymore because I'm just like, what do I do with this?

Pete Holmes (90:37)

It's like dogs sensing these things and there is an attunement. I suppose I'm open to this.

Kunal Nayyar (90:43)

Something like that.

Pete Holmes (90:44)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (90:45)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (90:45)

I know. I had a friend that on the morning of 911 dream that a plane crashed into our bedroom. I was like, that's a very specific dream happened to me.

Kunal Nayyar (90:55)

I dreamt I was on a flight. I was. I was sleeping on a flight from New Delhi to Dubai. Sorry. From Los Angeles to Dubai. I'm sleeping and I wake up and the maps are on. I'm looking at the map and we're flying over sort of, I think, Russia, Ukraine. I'm flying over it. And I was like, oh, man. Be so weird if, like, a missile hit a commercial jet. And I went back and I was like, I don't know why I had that thought.

Pete Holmes (91:20)

Oh.

Kunal Nayyar (91:20)

And I went a bit sleep. Two days later, that's when the Ukrainians fired the missile and hit The Malaysian Airlines MH17, I believe.

Pete Holmes (91:27)

Yeah. Wow. Holy smokes.

Kunal Nayyar (91:29)

Yeah. I was like, what in the world? I don't want this superpower. I want my gentle stuff.

Pete Holmes (91:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

Kunal Nayyar (91:36)

So what do you do with it?

Pete Holmes (91:37)

Yeah, what do you do?

Kunal Nayyar (91:38)

All the authorities.

Pete Holmes (91:39)

Hi. Weird thing for you.

Kunal Nayyar (91:43)

Eeks.

Pete Holmes (91:44)

Yeah, That's.

Kunal Nayyar (91:45)

That's terrible.

Pete Holmes (91:46)

We live in an amazing world. Even when we're talking, like, take my thing with my friend. And the Beckett.

Kunal Nayyar (91:51)

Yeah, yeah.

Pete Holmes (91:53)

Even the most boring explanation that I remembered that he told me that he thought of the name Beckett. Memory is so fucking weird.

Kunal Nayyar (92:03)

Oh, yeah.

Pete Holmes (92:04)

Everything that is just so ordinary. Someone going like, oh, I remember. What did I have for breakfast this morning? Smoothie. Where are you? Like, you can't get people interested in this, but what are you doing? You're pointing the flashlight of your brain in, like, filing cabinets.

Kunal Nayyar (92:21)

Like, smoothie.

Pete Holmes (92:22)

Like, it's insane. You can't find it. Where can't cut you.

Kunal Nayyar (92:27)

Where's your mind?

Pete Holmes (92:28)

Where is your mind? Where is my mind?

Kunal Nayyar (92:31)

Makes me insane.

Pete Holmes (92:32)

This is a big Deepak Chopra thing. He's like, they can't.

Kunal Nayyar (92:34)

Where do thoughts come from?

Pete Holmes (92:35)

Exactly. And where do they recede into? And what is their. They're just endless.

Kunal Nayyar (92:42)

They have no tangible quality.

Pete Holmes (92:44)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (92:44)

Right.

Pete Holmes (92:45)

That's what I think. It'll be interesting to see if I get good at picking up on thought energy.

Kunal Nayyar (92:51)

Have you used CH GBT to ask it spiritual questions?

Pete Holmes (92:54)

I have asked a couple. It's good, right?

Kunal Nayyar (92:57)

My parents are just visiting, and I was trying to show my dad what it can do, and I put it on and I asked.

Pete Holmes (93:02)

Let's ask it.

Kunal Nayyar (93:03)

I asked different questions about. Do you have.

Pete Holmes (93:05)

What was the good one?

Kunal Nayyar (93:06)

No, I have the nice voice.

Pete Holmes (93:08)

I have a nice voice.

Kunal Nayyar (93:09)

Do you have the nice sweet voice kind of guy?

Pete Holmes (93:11)

Oh, it's a lady.

Kunal Nayyar (93:12)

Doesn't matter. You can ask it.

Pete Holmes (93:14)

Go ask. Ask it what you asked. Wait for it.

Kunal Nayyar (93:20)

What according?

ChatGPT (93:21)

Sorry, I'm having issues right now. Could not understand what you said.

Kunal Nayyar (93:27)

Hey, what according?

Pete Holmes (93:32)

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Okay, ready? Start now. Wait for the big circle.

Kunal Nayyar (93:38)

Now. Hey, what according to.

Pete Holmes (93:41)

You're going too slow.

Kunal Nayyar (93:43)

What do you mean?

Pete Holmes (93:43)

You're being too thoughtful. Ask quickly now.

Kunal Nayyar (93:46)

Hey, what according to Neo Advaita was here before nothing.

ChatGPT (93:55)

In Neo Advaita, the concept of before nothing is often seen as pointing to a state of pure awareness or consciousness that exists before any conceptualization of self or the universe. It refers to an experience or awareness that is beyond time, space, space and individual identity. An unmanifested state. Neo Advaita doesn't focus on intellectualizing or defining it as. The idea is that trying to grasp it with the mind only creates more separation. Before nothing is sometimes described as a pre awareness or an ever present, ever available state of being that is beyond all opposites. It's not really something you arrive at, but rather something you come to realize is always here, beyond the thoughts, labels and distinctions. In simpler terms, it's a kind of awareness or presence that doesn't need to be defined. A knowing that just is.

Kunal Nayyar (94:48)

Can you give me a real life example if I want to use that in my humanity?

ChatGPT (94:56)

A real life example of experiencing before nothing in your humanity might come during moments of deep stillness or presence where you're not thinking or identifying with anything at all. It's like when you're sitting quietly in nature and for a moment there are no thoughts about who you are, what you're doing, or where you're going. For instance, if you've ever been absorbed in an activity like watching a sunset or listening to music, and you suddenly feel like time has stopped, your sense of self fades and there's just the experience. That's a kind of before nothing moment.

Kunal Nayyar (95:32)

Come on.

Pete Holmes (95:34)

That's exactly what we were talking about this whole time.

Kunal Nayyar (95:37)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (95:37)

She nailed it.

Kunal Nayyar (95:39)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (95:40)

Wow. I mean, if this is God's dream, it's pretty funny to be like, and then I'll dream that I make a super intelligence that will then explain me to myself for you to understand. For me to understand. I see that as intense, like you having your panic attacks. To me, seems like the Hound of Heaven, the dog that's chasing you. God wants you. Wisdom wants.

Kunal Nayyar (96:06)

Yeah, yeah. And you're running away. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete Holmes (96:08)

You're running away. And it goes, fuck up his stuff on the highway. Yep, always.

Kunal Nayyar (96:13)

So I spoke to. I spoke to. I was talking To a lady about, she's a light healer, and I was just talking about my life to her. And she said it often happens when you're doing very mundane activities, days. It's. It always happens to you when you're doing something that you're not thinking about, like driving, like you do every single day. Like, you have these moments. What I perceived as panic was actually the universing. Hey, I'm sorry. It's your time now. You can come. I'm happy to drag your hair through the mud, or you can just give up and come now.

Pete Holmes (96:41)

That's right.

Kunal Nayyar (96:42)

And I think what I've been doing or what my journey has been is always just dragging myself through the mud and having experiences of bliss and then dragging my head to the mud and having.

Pete Holmes (96:49)

Right.

Kunal Nayyar (96:50)

You know.

Pete Holmes (96:50)

Well, that's why when Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane is like, take this cup away from me. Like, I don't want to do this. Like, I'm like, it's not about not resisting sometimes or not doubting or not not wanting what's happening. And then the ultimate example of Christ even surrendering to death and being like, this isn't the real me. It's okay. I mean, that's. But he still didn't want to do it. It sounds like in the story.

Kunal Nayyar (97:16)

Yeah, I don't know much about that story.

Pete Holmes (97:18)

Well, that was a fun little tidbit for the. I got to keep the white people interested.

Kunal Nayyar (97:22)

Oh, yeah. Trust me. I don't. I don't. I mean, the seven people that are going to watch this after we said that nothing was here before. Nothing was here.

Pete Holmes (97:29)

Oh, they're.

Kunal Nayyar (97:30)

They're.

Pete Holmes (97:31)

The diehards are with us.

Kunal Nayyar (97:32)

Really?

Pete Holmes (97:33)

People like this show, Those that still.

Kunal Nayyar (97:36)

Do, we can make bum jokes. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (97:39)

My butt is broken. There's a gas leak.

Kunal Nayyar (97:43)

Wait, what?

Pete Holmes (97:44)

Sorry, I was going for a Cheers.

Kunal Nayyar (97:46)

Oh, sorry.

Pete Holmes (97:46)

That's all right. You know Sadhguru. Is that something you talk about?

Kunal Nayyar (97:51)

Yeah, sure. Of course.

Pete Holmes (97:52)

Is that fine? I just think it's fascinating, you know, Sadhguru.

Kunal Nayyar (97:55)

Yeah, I mean, stays with you. He has stayed with us. Yes. In the past. I've just.

Pete Holmes (98:00)

You know who Sadhguru is.

Kunal Nayyar (98:02)

He's a famous Indian.

Pete Holmes (98:03)

Looks like an Indian guru.

Kunal Nayyar (98:05)

He is.

Pete Holmes (98:05)

I know, I know. But, like, if you think of an Indian guru, he's the one that you see that has the big white beard. Is he wearing a turban?

Kunal Nayyar (98:12)

Yeah. Sadhguru is an incredible teacher, obviously, and he comes a lot from the. So the. The yogic space of spiritual practice to Reach enlightenment. So he has a lot of great. He has a lot of. Yes. He loves Kriya. He loves Sadhana. He has a lot of great programs. You know, inner engineering is a great program for you to discover who you truly are or. Or it'll give you tools to maybe understand some of that, you know. So he doesn't love sort of philosophical debate about spirituality as much as he really is about being in reality and doing. Doing the. I mean, he has some very intense programs, too. I just love him because he likes golf, and he always tells me that my mind is full of. Which I think is so funny, which is so true.

Pete Holmes (98:56)

Is that what he's like? Is he funny?

Kunal Nayyar (98:58)

Very funny. He's brilliant. He's so funny.

Pete Holmes (99:00)

And he like Roasty.

Kunal Nayyar (99:01)

Yeah, all the time.

Pete Holmes (99:03)

Would he be like, okay, Big Bang Theory?

Kunal Nayyar (99:05)

Yeah, yeah, you love all that. But I love just being in his presence because, you know, you've been in the presence of awakened beings and they're already sharing information with you without you having to speak. Do you know what I mean? And you've been around. Like, you've been around Rupert. So when, you know, does it have to. I mean, you probably have a thousand questions for him, and then when you see him, can't say anything.

Pete Holmes (99:29)

Right. Yeah, that's true. And I get real giddy.

Kunal Nayyar (99:31)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's just an energetic personality.

Pete Holmes (99:34)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (99:35)

You know.

Pete Holmes (99:36)

Oh, that's really cool.

Kunal Nayyar (99:37)

He's great. I'm not like, again, I don't know a lot of. I haven't done what you've done. Like, I haven't visited a lot of gurus and. But.

Pete Holmes (99:46)

But you do get to kick it with him.

Kunal Nayyar (99:48)

He's great.

Pete Holmes (99:49)

Are you nervous when he's there? Are you, like, getting out the fine china?

Kunal Nayyar (99:52)

No.

Pete Holmes (99:53)

Are you trying to impress?

Kunal Nayyar (99:53)

I'm putting away all the booze in the house.

Pete Holmes (99:58)

Do you feel like you gotta have to hide the cigar?

Kunal Nayyar (100:00)

I'm just like, yeah, cigars, not so much as booze. Because I find cigars kind of a. I know it sounds silly, but I kind of find cigars kind of a spiritual.

Pete Holmes (100:07)

Yeah, it's a slow down moment.

Kunal Nayyar (100:09)

It's a tobacco leaf and it's coming from the earth, and it's dried and it's handmade and it's packed in a very specific way. And there's a real connection to, you know, I don't consider. I don't consider. I'm not the kind. I don't really deal that much in moral judgment. I'm just not that kind of a person, But I just like it, you know, so that I don't feel so much. Like, why is weed illegal? It never made sense to me. Yeah, true.

Pete Holmes (100:31)

Didn't. Forgive me if this isn't something. Didn't you have an experience where Sadhguru, like, shifted in front of you? Because I told. I've told the story of being with Ram Dass and he turned into my father.

Kunal Nayyar (100:42)

Yeah. I saw him turn into Sadhguru. Sadhguru turned into the. For me, just like this. Having conversation into the avatar of Shiva. Wow. So there was. I don't.

Pete Holmes (100:53)

Isn't Shiva blue?

Kunal Nayyar (100:55)

Yeah, but it wasn't like that. It was more. It wasn't as physical as much as it was just a real energetic avatar shift, you know?

Pete Holmes (101:02)

Wow.

Kunal Nayyar (101:03)

It's brilliant.

Pete Holmes (101:03)

Wow. So cool. I don't think I'd ever relax around sad girl. I'd be, like, sweaty and weird. You get used to it.

Kunal Nayyar (101:13)

Yeah, I think so.

Pete Holmes (101:14)

Just a guy.

Kunal Nayyar (101:16)

Yeah, well, brilliant guy. But, like, I'd get sweaty and weird about LeBron James because I'm a huge NBA fan.

Pete Holmes (101:22)

Okay. Not so much.

Kunal Nayyar (101:23)

Sadhguru 2016. LeBron James tweeted, I'll never forget. Time for some wine and the big bang theory. Oh, family. And I was like, he's a fan.

Pete Holmes (101:31)

Oh, nice. It's kind of weird to think, like, you actually are in one of the few places where you can be like, I assume you watch the show. You know what I mean? There are. That's kind of a dying thing.

Kunal Nayyar (101:42)

It is weird if I meet someone who's never seen the show.

Pete Holmes (101:44)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (101:45)

It's a bit strange. And sometimes people actually love the show and they'll pretend they don't know it.

Pete Holmes (101:49)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (101:50)

Because they want to equalize you. It's a very weird psychological thing. Guys. Sort of very strong, male dominated, energetic guys often feel uncomfortable with acknowledging. Oh. They're like, hey, can I get a pic for my mom? Yeah, yeah. You know. Oh, my God. For my girl. I don't watch it. It's always like this.

Pete Holmes (102:08)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (102:09)

I don't know what you do, man. I don't watch the show, but my girl loves it. So can we take a picture? I'm like, hi, my name is Kunal. Where are you from? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, I'm Adam. But just do this my. You know. Yeah, do this with my girl. I'm like.

Pete Holmes (102:20)

And then he goes say, bazinga.

Kunal Nayyar (102:22)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Or they'll say, oh, you're the funny guy. Right. You do that funny. You know that funny. Thing. I don't watch comedy. The worst is when someone says, yeah, you make me.

Pete Holmes (102:31)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (102:31)

I never. I don't.

Pete Holmes (102:32)

I'm not a fan.

Kunal Nayyar (102:33)

Yeah. I don't really like that show. Okay. I was like, what do you do for a living? Yeah. Well, I'm a, you know, doctor. Well, I don't like doctors. I mean, what do you. No, but I say that to someone. I'm like, why would you say that to someone, man? You could say, hey, it was for me. Or maybe now I've met you, I'd like to.

Pete Holmes (102:49)

Or maybe not say anything. You could have just said nothing.

Kunal Nayyar (102:52)

It is weird, though. People feel like they own you when they see you in television.

Pete Holmes (102:55)

Well, you were in their house.

Kunal Nayyar (102:56)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (102:57)

You lived in their house.

Kunal Nayyar (102:58)

Yeah. And I'm very grateful for it because, like, 99.9 of everyone I meet is awesome.

Pete Holmes (103:03)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (103:04)

Always like that. But you always remember the battle. The one who also. Cell phones. This whole picture thing is just. It's because it's. There's no manners in. Can I get. Not. Can I get a picture anymore? Hey, let's take a selfie. Let's take a selfie.

Pete Holmes (103:20)

I was just on a plane. The guy took a picture of me and him without him asking.

Kunal Nayyar (103:24)

He just did it.

Pete Holmes (103:25)

And I was like, oh, that didn't feel good. I don't like that at all.

Kunal Nayyar (103:29)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (103:30)

Then he goes, I'm going to send that to my friend.

Kunal Nayyar (103:31)

I was like, you have friends? That's what he said.

Pete Holmes (103:35)

I don't like doctors.

Kunal Nayyar (103:36)

Yeah, exactly.

Pete Holmes (103:37)

Well, buddy, I've loved this.

Kunal Nayyar (103:38)

Thank you.

Pete Holmes (103:38)

The final question that we usually ask. I mean, what a great episode. I'm just so glad to know you. And we're gonna have a cigar.

Kunal Nayyar (103:45)

Great. That's for sure.

Pete Holmes (103:46)

I'll hit you up. And we ask the. Can you think of the time you laugh the hardest in your life? Doesn't have to be the hardest. Maybe you're a kid. Maybe someone fell down. Maybe someone flipped, farted. Maybe it was your dad. These are some of the big ones. Something embarrassing. Your pants fell down. I don't know. Or it could have been on set. You couldn't get through a take.

Kunal Nayyar (104:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (104:07)

It doesn't have to be a good story, but, like, where are you if you're laughing so hard your belly hurts? Who are you with?

Kunal Nayyar (104:14)

Oh, that's a great question. I think for me, like, Simon Helberg is the funniest guy I've ever met in my life. He played Wallowitz on Big Bang. And there was an episode where. And they always had. My character always had these sort of homoerotic moments with him, even though they were best friends. And it was all very funny. But we're doing a scene where he's invented a kissing machine, which is a real kissing machine in. In Korea. He's invented it where you kiss it on this side, and it does exactly what it does. And they look like mics, but they've got fake lips and tongues. And he's doing it, and he's like, hey, will you. You know, like, practice. I want you to practice with this. So we are just making out with these two kissing machines, and every time.

Pete Holmes (105:06)

And I can see what you do is on his.

Kunal Nayyar (105:10)

Yeah. And we're just. And the audience is eating it up, and we're just going for an. Every time the camera cuts to him, I can see in the corner of my. I'm just, like, bursting out laughing because I cannot keep it together. A lot of moments had in Big Bang, but I remember that one specifically.

Pete Holmes (105:26)

That's got to be one of the best answers. You're making out with a Korean makeout.

Kunal Nayyar (105:30)

Machine with Simon Helberg. And who is who to. To this day, is still one of the funniest people I've met in my life. Wow. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (105:38)

That's fantastic.

Kunal Nayyar (105:39)

I laughed really hard. I. I have to be honest. The. The time I did mushrooms, I laughed so hard that I asked God to stop me from laughing because otherwise I would die.

Pete Holmes (105:53)

Oh, wow.

Kunal Nayyar (105:54)

I'm like, I love you.

Pete Holmes (105:55)

You prayed. Please stop.

Kunal Nayyar (105:57)

I will die.

Pete Holmes (105:58)

Yeah.

Kunal Nayyar (105:58)

I can't breathe.

Pete Holmes (105:59)

Yes.

Kunal Nayyar (105:59)

And you know why I was laughing? Because I had ordered sushi for dinner, and I forgot how to use chopsticks. I could not figure out how to put the sushi into my mouth. And I thought that for some reason, that was like the. And I was alone, and I thought that was the funniest thing.

Pete Holmes (106:21)

Oh, my God.

Kunal Nayyar (106:21)

In the entire world.

Pete Holmes (106:23)

You did mushrooms alone.

Kunal Nayyar (106:24)

Yeah. The time you did chocolate mushrooms. Yeah.

Pete Holmes (106:26)

By yourself?

Kunal Nayyar (106:27)

Yeah.

Pete Holmes (106:27)

Wow. Respect.

Kunal Nayyar (106:30)

I mean, is that weird? Yeah.

Pete Holmes (106:32)

Usually somebody else there to be like, are the walls moving?

Kunal Nayyar (106:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, a little chocolate or something, and it was amazing.

Pete Holmes (106:38)

Okay, fantastic.

Kunal Nayyar (106:39)

Thanks.

Pete Holmes (106:40)

Two great answers. Thanks for doing it, man. Would you say keep it crispy? It's just how we end.

Kunal Nayyar (106:44)

Yeah, Keep it crispy.

Pete Holmes (106:45)

There it is. It's done. All right, thanks so much.

Kunal Nayyar (106:48)

Thanks.

Pete Holmes (106:49)

Amazing.