Lucius

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Lucius (Jess Wolfe & Holly Laessig)
Release Date: October 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

This vibrant, candid, and often hilarious episode spotlights the acclaimed indie-pop band Lucius, comprised of Jess Wolfe and Holly Laessig. Pete Holmes guides a wide-ranging conversation that explores parenthood on the road, artistic evolution, the weird gendered roles in music, and the joy of shared, honest creative collaboration. With Lucius in the midst of their Gold Rush tour and reflecting on new music, the trio dive deep into the realities behind artistry, touring with children, and the challenges and rewards of following their own path as a band.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Touring with Kids and Parenthood Balance

Timestamps: [09:48]–[16:40], [32:03]–[40:44]

• Parenting on Tour: Both Jess and Holly now tour with young children, navigating buses modified for naps and shared nannies.
  • "We share a nanny on tour." – Jess Wolfe [10:41]
  • "On a bus... one of the bunks has like a zip mesh zipper thing." – Jess Wolfe [11:01]
  • "Tour before the, I mean before kids though, is...waiting...now it's a little bit more evened out, you know, because you're using your energy all day." – Holly Laessig [38:31]
• Creative Challenges: Jess is open about postpartum struggles and the “tunnel” of tiredness, but performing can bring a sense of relief.
  • "I feel like I'm in a bit of, a bit of a tunnel at the moment." – Jess Wolfe [37:31]
  • “I feel relief and release from performing. And I also feel like...in a tunnel.” – Jess Wolfe [35:24]
• On-stage vs. Family Life: Pete and the band relate over the intense split between domestic responsibilities and the glow of performing.
  • "Parenting is so much compromising...Then you go on stage and you're like, I know what I'm gonna do. These people all seem rested." – Pete Holmes [35:07]

Navigating Genre and Authenticity

Timestamps: [14:15]–[24:10], [25:46]–[30:07]

• Genre Fluidity: Lucius is classified as pop but frequently branches out, leading to confusion but artistic satisfaction.
  • "You are listed as a pop band, but you also like rock really hard. What's going on there?" – Pete Holmes [15:34]
  • "We never know what to call ourselves, so we can't expect other people to." – Jess Wolfe [15:43]
• Resisting Boxes: Both band and host discuss the external push to “package” art into familiar boxes, while their own voices/ideas evolve with life’s changes.
  • "People, like, tend to...This is why we're not successful." – Jess Wolfe [53:25]
  • "It's a little weird when artists don't [evolve]. When they're still kind of doing an impression of who they were when they were 25." – Pete Holmes [17:56]
• Authenticity, Not Commerce: Attempts to “write a hit” often backfire; the most resonant work comes from honesty and inspiration.
  • "When we've tried...it's not even, oh, let's try and make something more accessible...it never happens that [it's a hit]." – Jess Wolfe [21:57]
  • “Just write the best thing, do the thing that is the most honest, feels the best. At some point, probably something will hit. Or not.” – Jess Wolfe [22:30]
  • "If I think it's funny, I think that's valuable...But I'm also sensitive and there's also fatigue." – Pete Holmes [28:00]

The Big Stage, Gender, and Background Singer Stereotypes

Timestamps: [44:34]–[54:25]

• Breaking Norms: Pete leads a deep dive into how Lucius, as a dual-voiced band of women, subvert the music world’s patriarchal models — challenging the trope of the “frontman" and the role of female vocalists as backup.
  • "Why is my brain going, 'Oh, this is the sound I associate with background singers?'...the stage mimics...societal structures." – Pete Holmes [44:34]
  • "People automatically think background singer when they see two people singing together in harmonies, which has been a blessing and a curse." – Jess Wolfe [46:27]
  • "We are lead singers together. We are a band." – Jess Wolfe [48:38]
• Band Identity: Lucius discuss the choice to dress alike and present as a “unit” — a distinct entity that sometimes is misperceived.
  • "We could be a double tracked vocal live...and then eventually like perfectly matching our outfits so that people would see us as a unit, the way they hear us as a unit." – Holly Laessig [47:51]
• Market Realities: Collabs often credit Lucius less visibly than soloists; Pete and Lucius unpack the music biz’s centering of individuals over groups.

Connection, Community, and Creative Process

Timestamps: [68:21]–[75:39], [85:24]–[103:05]

• Advice for Young Musicians:
  • Investing in real community and in-person musical circles is key — social media can't replace old-fashioned scene-building.
    • "I do think that it's still that nothing beats like face to face community and going to shows and seeing live music and meeting people." – Holly Laessig [69:21]
    • “Community is everything.” – Jess Wolfe [69:33]
• Meaningful Work vs. “Clipification”:
  • The necessity of focusing on depth and meaning over social metrics.
    • "If you make something meaningful...people will connect. So just worry about making the thing that's meaningful." – Jess Wolfe [72:11]
• Live Shows as Communion:
  • Pete suggests and Lucius agree that live music is about a deeper collective experience, not just performing hits.
    • "It's this excuse to be together, and the songs are like this blanket that kind of tie everything together." – Pete Holmes [74:27]
    • "Laugh together...It's about joining into some placeless place. You kind of lose yourself into an audience, into a show, and then you're not even there. But then...we're all there." – Pete Holmes [74:41]
  • The nourishment of focused, present experiences — a contrast to the distracted, hyper-edited world.

Creativity, Technique, and the Weird Joy of Performance

Timestamps: [40:44]–[44:22], [43:42]–[44:34]

• Vocal Power & Technique:
  • Memorable moment: Erykah Badu’s pre-show advice — “Sing from your pussy” — and the significance of singing from deep within the body.
    • “Erykah Badu, once before a show, stopped us and said, all right, girls, sing from your pussy.” – Jess Wolfe [41:01]
  • Jess shares vocal health tricks (blowing through straws into water — “straw phonation”) for maintaining endurance.

Playfulness & Meaning of Life (Games, Ram Dass, Humor)

Timestamps: [84:10]–[96:48]

• Mind Meld and Five-Second Animal:
  • Joy in playful creative games before shows, underscoring that connection and fun are as meaningful as any Big Answer to life.
  • Pete: “This is the meaning of life — playful connection.” [88:14]
• Ram Dass & Spiritual Frameworks:
  • The enduring inspiration from Ram Dass — the ongoing value of his teachings, even after his passing.
    • "Love a good Ram Dass. I'm so glad we had some time with Ram Dass." – Jess Wolfe [84:22]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On artistic honesty and connection:
  "Just write the best thing, do the thing that is the most honest, feels the best. At some point, probably something will hit. Or not."
  – Jess Wolfe [22:30]

• On creative evolution:
  "It doesn't all feel the same. Why would it sound the same?"
  – Jess Wolfe [18:17]

• On gender roles in music:
  "We have a... We are lead singers together. We are. We are a band."
  – Jess Wolfe [48:38]

• On the joy and struggle of parenting:
  "It's the best. Hardest best."
  – Jess Wolfe [79:24]

• On live music's function:
  "It's this excuse to be together, and the songs are like this blanket that kind of tie everything together."
  – Pete Holmes [74:27]

• On vocal advice from a legend:
  "Erykah Badu, once before a show, stopped us and said, all right, girls, sing from your pussy."
  – Jess Wolfe [41:01]

• Ice and Sonic Ice:
  An extended, comedic “debate” about the relative merits of Sonic vs. Coffee Bean nugget ice and how to acquire the "best" ice as a touring musician.
  – [82:13–83:58]

• Best Laugh Ever Story:
  Holly tells the delightful tale of laughing while rollerblading as a child, peeing her pants, and having her friend douse her with water to save her from embarrassment.
  – [101:27]

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Structured Timeline

• 00:00-03:59 – Intro, tour dates, Lucius song preview
• 03:59-09:15 – Age, eyesight, Comedians in Cars & authenticity in showbiz
• 09:15-14:15 – Touring, parenthood, children on tour
• 14:15-24:10 – Genre fluidity, artistic evolution, Lucius’ varied sound and approach
• 25:46-30:07 – The unpredictability of hits, honest connection, responding to audience energy
• 32:03-40:44 – Touring tedium, balancing music and family, community among touring musicians
• 40:44-44:22 – Singing styles, vocal health and iconic advice
• 44:34-54:25 – Gender, roles in pop music, band identity and industry packaging
• 54:25-62:39 – Lucius’ origins, Brooklyn era, house as creative incubator, NY vs. LA
• 62:39-67:38 – Changes in creative scene, city moves, shifts in artistic community needs
• 68:21-73:44 – Advice for musicians, connection over clout, making lasting work
• 74:27-81:20 – Meaning in communal experience, parenting
• 84:10-96:48 – Games, playful meaning, Ram Dass, creative rituals
• 101:27-103:04 – Favorite laugh memories, closing

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is conversational, playful, intellectually curious, and laced with warmth and insider anecdotes. Pete’s signature earnestness and sense of wonder meets Lucius’ authenticity and candor, making for an engaging reflection on both music and life.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode charts the joys and challenges of a band genuinely charting their own path — musically, personally, and professionally. It’s a must-listen for those interested in the rich, often unseen side of music-making, and for anyone wrestling with how to stay true to themselves across life's changing chapters.

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End note:
“Keep it crispy!” — Lucius, with their signature wit and camaraderie. [103:04]

Transcript

[Jess Wolfe]

Lemonade.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Lucius, one of my favorite bands. They are incredible. Who are they? They are Jess Wolf and Holly Lasig, better known as Lucious. They are wonderful. They are here to discuss so many wonderful things about music, about art, about life, about parenthood. It is interesting, it is funny, and I'm glad you have joined us. They are currently on their Gold Rush tour, which will be at the Wiltern, which is the intersection of Wilshire and Western. I never knew that. I found that out, like, a year ago and it blew my mind. The Wiltern Theater in Los Angeles on 11-21-10. Tickets are available at their website, Ilove Lucious.com. you can also check them out wherever or whomever you get your music from on all of the streaming platforms. And I sincerely, sincerely recommend that you do. In fact, their new song Thick As Thieves has just dropped. Let's give it a listen before we jump in. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Lucius. This is Thick as Thieves.

[Jess Wolfe]

We were looking for something, Wanna be the winner?

[Pete Holmes]

Just home.

[Jess Wolfe]

So we'd run under the bleachers Everyone was cheering and pretend it was for us.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, pretend it was for us. All right, everybody, we are so glad you're here on my end. Not too much to plug. I'm just going to say a couple of the tour dates before we jump in. November 1st, I'm going to be here in Los Angeles at Largo, followed by Chicago, Pittsburgh, New York, New York, Atlantic City, New Jersey. We got the Milwaukee Improv, the Brea Improv. We got San Francisco just added coming to Cobbs on January 8, North Carolina, South Carolina, Miami, Mark Ridley's Comedy Castle in Royal Oak, Michigan, Mark's and Madison and Denver. All of these are on peteholmes.com hope to see you guys out there. In the meantime, enjoy my chat with my wonderful friends of Lucius. Get into it. It's morning in New York. Hey, everybody, I'm Mandy Patinkin.

[Jess Wolfe]

And I'm Kathryn Grody.

[Pete Holmes]

And we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Listen to Us. Many of you have asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people? Don't listen to us. Our take it or leave it advice show is out Every Wednesday, premiering October 15th. A Lemonada Media original.

[Holly Laessig]

Hi there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. This fall, my podcast, Wiser than Me is back for season three with even more wisdom straight from some legendary old ladies. These chickadees have a lot to teach us. Every word is a lesson in living unapologetically and focusing on the stuff that really matters. From Lemonada Media Wiser than Me, Season 3 out now. Find it wherever you get your podcast, subscribe to Lemonada Premium in the Apple Podcasts app and listen to every episode of season three ad free.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to ask how old you are, but I'm. I'm right there with you. And I. I don't want to assume that it's an eyesight age thing.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. I mean, I have terrible. I'm wearing contacts. I have.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you just had them. Had bad eyes.

[Holly Laessig]

But now they're just getting like.

[Pete Holmes]

The tiny words are, I can't do it anymore.

[Jess Wolfe]

But after you drink this, after you.

[Pete Holmes]

Drink one Magic mind. We're not supposed to say this, but it'll restore your vision. Yeah. I did wear this for you, Jess. And we are rolling. Is that okay? Yeah, we'll get all of this. I'm one of those people that when I watched Comedians in Cars getting coffee, I just wanted to see how they ordered, like, how they ordered breakfast. Like, I didn't care about the interview. So how you, like, come into the room and get settled is so much more interesting.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here, hold this.

[Holly Laessig]

What was the most surprising breakfast that you remember from that show?

[Pete Holmes]

I think they're faking it. I think everybody's full of shit. I don't mean in a sinister way, but when Alec Baldwin was on it, they were like pancakes and shit. And I'm like, this is for the camera. There's a specific LA thing that the very fit body conscious actor types when on camera, will eat peanut M and Ms. As a flex. I'm not saying that's what Baldwin was doing. I'm just saying I don't buy it. Remove the cameras. It's an egg white omelette.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Camera's on. Man of the people.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I will have the. The, you know, French toast. Right, Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No magusta.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Well, we won't fake it when we go for. For breakfast with you.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, thank you.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, we'll just order the things that we want to order.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, Just eat it. Well, I'm really touch. Is this intentional Jacket?

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Holly Laessig]

What? Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think we've ever gotten an Internet clip in the first 30 seconds of an episode before. But watching you both realize that it wasn't intentional that you're. That you're top bottom parent.

[Jess Wolfe]

We don't do anything intentional. What are you talking about?

[Pete Holmes]

That's not true. I saw you ladies open for. Not open support. War on Drugs. Who were opening for the next. You were there. I was there.

[Holly Laessig]

It was the National.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I. I can't handle it. I can't handle the sweaty ass. Oh, can you relate? I. I feel like I'd be bothering you if I was like, never come say hi.

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

And we know Matt, too, but I won't do it.

[Jess Wolfe]

You are. Yeah, that's right. You're old friends with Matt.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I love him very dearly.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I tell you something?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That. Because you like the national, too.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm assuming, of course. What if you hate them? Holly, you kind of were like, yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Don'T worry.

[Jess Wolfe]

I have tears after.

[Holly Laessig]

From the earlier moments anyways.

[Jess Wolfe]

My brain hasn't been reclaimed yet.

[Pete Holmes]

I. This is. This is also being in my 40s, I do know and love Matt, and I just got into the Nationals. First records. I never liked them. Cherry Tree, I think is the first one in Alligator. I just thought they weren't for me. And now, having enjoyed everything else they've done, I've gone back and been like, these are some of their best songs. I love them so much. And then younger Pete would have texted Matt and been like, hey, man, it's probably. Who cares? But I've always told you I'm like, a boxer, forward national fan, which I have told him that many times, which is weird to share. And I'm like, I was wrong. But there is something, and I am putting this back to you.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No, this. This can't. Don't you do it. Don't let me monologue. There's something about. I really like being in my 40s where I just play it out. I'. I don't really think that's about him. I don't think I really care that he knows that I like those records. I think it's about him validating that I exist somehow, and I just let it go. That feels like age. I just go, like, it's okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

I hear that. I hear that. But also, as we get older and we tour the way that both of our bands do, I think having people that you respect.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Recognize or acknowledge or something that you do that resonates is. It's meaningful.

[Pete Holmes]

You think so?

[Jess Wolfe]

I do. I think when I do say things like, you know, I went back and I listened to this record, I just want to tell you how moved I was or what it. I don't know. It just resonated in a certain way. It always comes with a positive like, touched.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. See that? I can be in that space where I really am just. It's like an overflowing of love where you're like, I really just wanna tell you, I'm just a little suspicious of old Petey going, like, do you want the rock star to text you back? Is that gonna give you a little hit?

[Jess Wolfe]

Also?

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Jess Wolfe]

Also. That's okay. You are friends. You are friends with the rock star.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I am.

[Jess Wolfe]

You're friends with the rock star.

[Pete Holmes]

No. And rock stars. Come on. Rock stars.

[Jess Wolfe]

Although you didn't text me at the Hollywood Ball. Well, here.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't handle it. It's too risky.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, we're old pals. Come on.

[Pete Holmes]

It's too risky.

[Jess Wolfe]

I was invited to your wedding.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but you did not attend.

[Jess Wolfe]

I did not, but not for lack of want. We were on tour. We were on tour.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me about touring. Let's start there because we won't forget how you and I know each other. And. And your matching pant jacket. Let's. I want to start there with touring.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What is it like? Are you guys touring? Do you mind being called guys?

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

I can also do bros. Yeah, I.

[Jess Wolfe]

Prefer bros. Do you?

[Pete Holmes]

Bros?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you enjoying touring? This is. This is something that I can't wait to talk to musicians about.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been touring too much, a little bit too much lately. I'm just curious. Your strategies, your feelings, everything. Tell me everything about touring.

[Jess Wolfe]

Children.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you're bringing the children.

[Holly Laessig]

The newest chapter.

[Pete Holmes]

How old are your children, Holly?

[Holly Laessig]

Mine are four and one and some change. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Holly Laessig]

God. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a lot. I mean, you tell me.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

My joke. When Lila was four and we were thinking about having another one, we were like, I've never been like, I wish there was another kid here. And. You have another one.

[Holly Laessig]

I do.

[Pete Holmes]

You got the two, I think.

[Jess Wolfe]

You can't think about it too much.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Just kind of dive right in.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the whole thing.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a non. Your brain doesn't get to come. It'll never make sense to your head.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Do not drink these before trying to have a child.

[Pete Holmes]

You need magic heart. They do have a magic heart.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's a. You need mud. You need mud. Shampoo.

[Pete Holmes]

Eat the shampoo if you want to understand parents.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you bring your baby, too?

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Go ahead.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. We share a nanny on tour.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it Alice Cooper?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Keep it in music. I did say Manny.

[Pete Holmes]

We have a Manny. It's Alice Cooper. He Just likes the vibes.

[Jess Wolfe]

He'd be great.

[Pete Holmes]

He would. So on a bus.

[Jess Wolfe]

On a bus.

[Holly Laessig]

On a bus.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. We got like a whole setup. One of the bunks has like a zip mesh zipper thing.

[Pete Holmes]

It becomes like to keep them in.

[Jess Wolfe]

Uh huh.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And like padded walls in case of.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, sharp turns.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. We always answer in unison.

[Pete Holmes]

I like it. By the way, this is going to be a Simon and Garfunkel comparison free interview. I want you to know that. Can we be sophisticated enough to hear two people singing and not think, oh, Simon and Garfunkel. I'm gonna edit that out. Do you get that from a lot? I know, I'm all over the place.

[Jess Wolfe]

Honestly. Never.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Holly Laessig]

Never got that.

[Pete Holmes]

I was listening to you. I was like whenever people are singing and not aggressively harmonizing, meaning pretty similar. Yeah, I know you're harmonizing, but like, not aggressive.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, we're more aggressive than that.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you. But than them. Yeah, they're going for like the same note. Yeah, but I still got a slight.

[Jess Wolfe]

We've got an Everly Brothers.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh. Which is.

[Jess Wolfe]

I feel like sort of in the similar realm. But never saw me in Garfunkel.

[Holly Laessig]

What was the really weird one we got? It was like.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, no, that was like a metal version of.

[Pete Holmes]

Here it is.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, it was like a metal band. Or not metal, but worse. Worse punk.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, my God. It's on the top of my tongue. It'll come back later in the.

[Pete Holmes]

It'll come up in the conversation.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

It'll go back.

[Jess Wolfe]

System of A Down.

[Holly Laessig]

No, no, it wasn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I know. It is. Taking back Sunday.

[Holly Laessig]

No, it was.

[Pete Holmes]

What if it was them? That would have been awesome.

[Jess Wolfe]

Wasn't this. Some of it down. It was something like that.

[Holly Laessig]

It was something like that. But Pete would know this pod.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay, where were we?

[Pete Holmes]

Avenge Sevenfold. Avenge Sevenfold. Maybe you remember your children. I don't know.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, I don't know what they sound like.

[Pete Holmes]

Avenge Sevenfold. I don't either, but based on their name, I don't. Probably not a dentist artist.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Probably something you listen after the dentist to get that rage out.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Unless you're getting a root canal.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, that. Maybe. That'd be great.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Could the music mirror the feelings a little bit better? It's so relaxing.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, I mean, like, we. We like relaxing music during massages.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, wouldn't we want extreme music during intense. Yeah, because you're aspiring to feel how the music.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Is. You want to be.

[Holly Laessig]

Match something outside of yourself.

[Jess Wolfe]

Like, when you're giving birth, don't you want to hear, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. We played a lot of Beyonce.

[Holly Laessig]

Beyonce.

[Pete Holmes]

A lot of Beyonce. A lot of, like, power. Like, I would. If I was like, I can't even. I'm not even trying to be funny, but like a boulder up a hill or something. As close as I can imagine. I would. I wouldn't want to listen to. Who can say I would want.

[Jess Wolfe]

That as his.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, yeah. His funeral march.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Our longtime producer wants.

[Pete Holmes]

Only time he wants.

[Jess Wolfe]

He wanted that song. Yeah. Right. And. Yeah. And. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Anyway. Yeah. Pretty funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. We're on touring.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

And I am remiss. I think you are wonderful. And I. I was listening the whole way down. Often do love. But it's just truly remarkable. I think you guys have really dialed into something unique and special, but also just perfectly fit. It's not like forced. Seems very naturally occurring. And also happens to be incredibly cool and wonderful and sonically impressive and all the good things. Come on.

[Jess Wolfe]

We're just trying. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Come on.

[Jess Wolfe]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

I should open with things like that, but I have to wedge it in the middle.

[Holly Laessig]

We're.

[Jess Wolfe]

We're trying to just follow what, you know, the pulse of what. Whatever it is that's happening in our. In our lives.

[Pete Holmes]

And working it out through the music, you mean.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. And it never kind of sounds the same, but I guess the voices are what keeps it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, they are very different. They're every. I don't know if it's by record because I'm often just listening the way people listen these days, but I'm seeing the icons for the albums. I'm like, this is very different. Some of them sound like. And I mean this with full respect, like a hit in the 80s or something. Like, there'll be something that sounds like 80s, kind of synthy, and then there'll be something that's almost like black keys, like Tony guitary funk. Cool. So that's why when I picked. Picked you up, opened the door for you. I said, is it the pop band? Lucius? It's funny.

[Holly Laessig]

They.

[Pete Holmes]

You are listed as a pop band, but you also like rock really hard. What's going on there?

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know.

[Jess Wolfe]

We never know what to call ourselves, so we can't expect other people to. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, nice. Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

What a generous answer.

[Holly Laessig]

Wrap our harmonies in different things. Clothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I think that's why, like, a lot of other artists have wanted to work with us because we sort of can, you know, meld and Merge in different universes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And it keeps things interesting. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it starts with the feeling first. Like you're having a feeling.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. There's definitely some kind of spark or inspiration, and then we just follow it. And we're not precious about keeping something the same. Although I think it has gotten us into trouble. Might not be the right word, but it might confuse people at times. Like, what are they?

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, I relate really hard sometimes. I'm like, who am I? This is just to relate. Who am I for? Meaning I'm a guy who does really dirty jokes, but then also, like, some, like, strangely earnest spiritual joke. And I'm like. I often say that to the audience. I'm like, who are you guys that you can. Not. That you're. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's not as easy to buy off the shelf.

[Holly Laessig]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what you're saying?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, if you had stuck to, like, 1. Put it in a box. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and we do, like, things that are in boxes.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. I mean, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. It's easy to digest. Digest or compartmentalize. And.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And that makes sense. And we just have never been able to do that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's just because, by the way, same. Do you relate when people are like, well, let's talk about how an album sounds different from another album. And in my case, it would be an hour of material sounding different from another. It's like, what did I have to do with it? It was just the stuff. And I don't mean, like, the cosmos was transmitting jokes to me or songs, certainly. But we would never say such a thing publicly. No, that. That inspiration and the mystery of that is at play. But there's also just, like, life and feelings are so complicated, and if you're being honest and reporting on them honestly, as your life gets different, your art will get different.

[Jess Wolfe]

Absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a little weird when artists don't. When they're still kind of doing an impression of who they were when they were 25.

[Holly Laessig]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Like, I think that feel would feel more forced or something, like. Like trying to stick to a, you know, formula or something. And.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I. Yeah, we change. We. We things. You have children. You.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Get hurt. You're something. You know, something sad happens in your life. Something beautiful happens in your life. Like, it. It doesn't all feel the same. Why would it sound the same?

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And are you like me? I. I sometimes think I'm, like, a pretty easygoing person. And then I realize, if you want to get me really worked up, like, tell me not to report honestly on my experience, I know that sounds ridiculous, but, like, going back to what you're saying about marketing, I briefly considered doing, like, a clean tour. I was like, oh, that'll be fun. I think people think of me as a clean comic. What if I do a clean tour? And then I tried it once, and.

[Jess Wolfe]

By clean mean not drinking.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, just don't say fuck, shit, piss, all that sort of stuff. Clean language. And then. Yeah, that's interesting that you took it as the lifestyle. I mean, I just meant as how it presents.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is, again, sort of a. I. Anyway, I tried it once and was just like, oh, I got into this out of, like, a real burning desire to be heard and to be authentic. Would you say that? I mean, it seems to be driving you pretty hard to be like, this is what it is. I don't. I'm not. You're not reverse engineering a top 40 song.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just going. Also following the feeling.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's fun to.

[Pete Holmes]

To try and write a top 40 different things.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, sometimes I've definitely tried that.

[Holly Laessig]

It never works.

[Jess Wolfe]

It never works. But. But. But it's fun to try.

[Holly Laessig]

It's fun to try.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

You know, like, do you want to listen to that version of yourself? Probably not.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I always Wonder if top 40 songs, like, I remember Free Fallen, the bass, Tom Petty's bass player, didn't like it and wouldn't play on it, Right. Like, a decision that cost him millions of dollars. I'm sure he just was like, this song's garbage. But I also remember that Tom Petty wasn't like, this is Free Fallen. This is a hit.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, nobody knows.

[Jess Wolfe]

No one knows.

[Pete Holmes]

And by the way, can't you imagine a world where Free Fallen is kind of like, yeah, I love it. I love it, but I wouldn't necessarily hear it. I don't have that, like, ear to go, like, this is a hit for sure.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's hard to say after it's a.

[Pete Holmes]

Hit, it's too late. I'm humoring. I'm thought. Experimenting. Because I'm with you. As you looked into the middle distance. Holly. I can't imagine a world where Free Fallen isn't a hit, but the bass player heard it and thought it was stupid. And. And he is a heartbreaker. He was in the Heartbreakers and he thought, this sucks, and now he sucks, and now he's heartbroken. That's exactly right. Or Like Last Dance with Mary Jane. Do you know that story? No, that it was Rick Rubin. Tom Petty gave them a demo of 10 songs and it was something he played in between the songs. So Rick was like, I don't like any of the songs. But that thing you played in between the songs, Crazy.

[Holly Laessig]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

But so, so, like, is that. Does that speak to your experience of trying to write a hit? Like, the mystery of it.

[Holly Laessig]

Well, we've never had a free fall, so, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, what was something that you wrote to be.

[Holly Laessig]

There's definitely.

[Jess Wolfe]

I think Tom Petty was trying to write.

[Holly Laessig]

No, no, but I'm saying, I'm saying.

[Pete Holmes]

That'S a good question.

[Holly Laessig]

I. I think, yeah. I mean, who knows? But it's definitely. There have definitely been songs that we've been, I guess, surprised at, like, how people respond.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Or, like, preferred or, like, we would think it would be another song and instead it was. I mean, I have no example off the top of my head, but yeah, you just don't know.

[Jess Wolfe]

You don't know. And, and, and when we've tried and it's not even, oh, let's try and make something more accessible, it's just like, oh, we're, you know, this record feels a lot more dancy or pop or maybe there's a world where there's a single in here that has some radio compatibility.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It never happens that.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's like, it's like, you know, what people connect to something that connects to them.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Whatever it is. Like, if it's gonna make them feel like it resonates in their life, that's the thing that's gonna take off.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

And so just write the best thing, do the thing that is the most honest and feels the best. And at some point, probably something will hit.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

Or not.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm so with you. I don't think it's bad. Throwing. Is that an expression? Throwing spaghetti at the wall?

[Jess Wolfe]

No. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's not bad, but it's kind of what we're doing as opposed to commerce, which is really the science of predicting what people want.

[Holly Laessig]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then putting together a super group. And although that's not fair, Joey McIntyre from the New Kids did the show and they're talking about the real songs. It's not like a computer wrote song. Somebody wrote the song. There is a little bit more into the marketing and all that, but, like, I don't want to dismiss that summarily, but, like, again, going to Rick Rubin, he was talking about the Marvel. Marvel movies sometimes can feel hollow because they were so clearly trying to go, well, people want to see this, and then they reverse engineer it. But it's very interesting to think that, like, comedy, meaning. I think everything I write is really funny. I'm like, this is really funny. And then you try it and you're like, for some reason, that caught on. And this one that I thought was brilliant just didn't catch on at all.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

But when you're performing it, you think it's funny. I think that's worth a lot. Like, you can always stand behind the thing that you feel strongly about.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It might not resonate. We have songs that, like, for whatever reason, just, you know, again, like myth.

[Pete Holmes]

How do you know?

[Jess Wolfe]

You just.

[Pete Holmes]

You just feel it, you know?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The applause. Is it the applause after?

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it the bathroom break? Are you seeing people going and getting drinks?

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to know how you can tell a song isn't connecting.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

If people are chatty or.

[Pete Holmes]

Yikes.

[Holly Laessig]

They're kind of. I mean, it's hard, though, because sometimes if you're playing, like, a new album, it always happens. Every time we put out a new record, the first few shows, people kind of are like, just. They don't know the song yet, but it's.

[Jess Wolfe]

But.

[Holly Laessig]

And so you feel like, oh, no, they're not liking this, but it's just because they don't know it yet. And they're. They're absorbing it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what Val says to me all the time. They were listening. Yeah, they were listening.

[Holly Laessig]

So that's always a hard gauge to make. Like the beginning of a tour of a new record.

[Pete Holmes]

But then do you ever feel like. Then you have a song on, like, Grey's Anatomy. Right. And now we have an association with that. Some scene in Grey's Anatomy that is linked to the song. And now you play the song. Isn't it kind of silly? At a certain point you're like. Like, if it had been a different song, you would like that song. But they picked this song, Right. I'm not saying it's wrong, but isn't it funny why a song works is so obvious in one way, because it's from that movie. And then also very mysterious, listening to you ladies on the way down. Forgive me, I don't remember which song it is, but there's some beautiful song and you say, I'm lonely. And, yeah, for some reason that I'm just like. Like, just, like, got me. I was like, we're so mysterious and music is trying to, like, thread like a weird river of purple and Orange sensation inside of you and sometimes it's something. And I'm not even particularly lonely today, you know what I'm saying? But something about the mixture of something so beautiful but saying something broken together really stirred me. And I'm sure you weren't sitting around going like, let's sing beautifully, but say something sad. Like, that would be stupid.

[Holly Laessig]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You just were probably feeling lonely.

[Jess Wolfe]

I. Yeah, I think to that. You know, we were talking about the. The. What's the word?

[Pete Holmes]

Synergy?

[Jess Wolfe]

Force. No, the thing that. No, there is a word for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, inspiration.

[Holly Laessig]

The vessel.

[Jess Wolfe]

The vessel. Ooh, vessel. I think most of our good songs are not ones that we've thought too hard about.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It just. The melody and the lyrics came together.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. What'd she say?

[Pete Holmes]

Channeled.

[Jess Wolfe]

A little bit channeled.

[Pete Holmes]

They came through.

[Jess Wolfe]

It just came. And it's like, it was always there.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry, all my references are Tom Petty today, but he played Wildflowers and it was like just one take. He just kind of, like, sang it.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, what? That's not an easy song. That's not just like, Scooby doo doop wanna hold your hand. It's not. It's like a very weird.

[Jess Wolfe]

That was challenging.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that was difficult. It had its own quality. What if I loved it? That had its own thing.

[Holly Laessig]

But if he overthought it and over recorded it, then it would sound like, oh, that's not an easy song.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

And then it wouldn't connect, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Totally.

[Holly Laessig]

Because it wouldn't have that sort of, like, inclusivity of, like, making it making things sound easy or natural.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Holly Laessig]

Overwrought. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a way that it comes out that's hard to imitate, which goes back to what I was saying about, like, when I know something's funny and you're like, well, there's value to that. And I certainly agree. But how many times. You know what I'm saying? It's like, how many times can you do it and kind of just get told that it's not good and then it just starts to die?

[Jess Wolfe]

Is that what happens?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jess Wolfe]

Who tells you it's not good?

[Pete Holmes]

Silence. It's actually not even that. It's. It's a blend. And this goes back to touring and I want to put it back to you and your process, but it's like, I believe it's funny and I have an abundance of. If I think it's funny, I think that's valuable. Like, I'm not lacking there But I'm also sensitive and there's also fatigue. So I'm trying to, like Steven Wright said, it's like painting a picture in their mind. You're trying to like. And sometimes you forget to say, you know, reluctantly. You forgot the word reluctantly. And now it doesn't work like. Cause turns out it was actually. What was funny about the joke was your shame. So, like, you forgot that. So there's all this effort and sometimes there's vocal effort and like, believe it or not, there's like notes somehow I'm having to hit and like, I just go like, fuck it. It's not that it wasn't good. Yeah, I'm interested that jokes and maybe even songs get cut just for, like, very boring reasons. Like, it just. Whatever the payout is, meaning that frequency that we want the show to have, I can get it there. But it takes all this effort and this one gets us there and it's easier. You know what I mean? So I'm gonna do more jokes like that and fewer jokes like this. And that's a touring comedian as opposed to. There are like more alti comedians who don't tour. And they do these really interesting acts because they haven't been. They weren't in the. You know, you put those rocks in the crystal turner. They weren't. They weren't. Rock tumbled. So now they're very raw and interesting. But you. You ladies are out there rock tumbling. Yeah, so I'm imagining. You watch things.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, we are doing the same set or similar to most nights. And I. I do think that sometimes they really carry and travel and connect, and sometimes they don't. Whether it's us who's actually not connecting to them and therefore you can't fool an audience, or whether it's just them not being interested, it's hard to know which is which.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, there's so many variables. And like, there's usually playing around with the set list a little bit because everything is context, right. So if you have a song in the wrong place in the set, it's not going to land as hard. And you have it after another song. All of a sudden everyone's like, a pin could drop. And everyone's just like, wow. And. And you're just like, why didn't that work like that last night? But what if the audience is also different?

[Jess Wolfe]

Or.

[Holly Laessig]

Or it's an outdoor venue and it's freezing cold that night? I mean, there's like so many.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Holly Laessig]

Reasons to get confused about what's landing.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say there's an advantage to being a comedian. And please, I'm saying this for you to weigh in on it. I'll sometimes accidentally jump the order, whereas I imagine it's harder for you. The whole band has to be synced up.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, yes, but. But if. If there's a feeling of stagnancy or something, it's easy to just sort of change it.

[Holly Laessig]

Call out.

[Pete Holmes]

You call it out.

[Jess Wolfe]

Absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

That's like. There's a story of Andre the Giant wrestling Hulk Hogan right before he died. And they were going to do a very tame fight. But then this is when I learned that in wrestling, sometimes they would go bali slab. He would yell it out.

[Jess Wolfe]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

And he would body slam him so they realized they were losing the audience. So you'll body slam you'll Andre the Giant?

[Holly Laessig]

Absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

Whoa.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Has anyone ever vetoed?

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Holly Laessig]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like gold rush. And someone's like, no. Second on card, Jeff.

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? So you're all synced up.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, yeah. What, are you gonna have a fight on stage?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, maybe.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, that'd be pretty entertaining, actually. Maybe that's what we all need to do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. And then he did it.

[Jess Wolfe]

That's good.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm interested in. Okay. So you do get to mix it up. And that does happen.

[Jess Wolfe]

But by the way, there are nights that are very hard to get through.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It doesn't mean it's not resonating, but it's not resonating for us. Or we're just tired and we have babies and I'm up all night feeding or whatever happens. It's. It's tough.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Of course. For all of the things to line up.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And it's tough to keep going. You know, tickets are people. It's hard times for people right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

And we do pretty well. But it. You can feel it.

[Pete Holmes]

You notice it. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, you just. You could feel it in the air. Generally. It's a heavy time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. We go around to a lot of cities and we're like, oh, like. And I'm not trying to be funny, but you go, oh, you guys never bounce back after covet. Like, you can see it's like a Covid town.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And what's funny is they actually desperately need you.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right. Well, they just stuff.

[Jess Wolfe]

Just shake them up something to.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

To take them out of whatever they're, you know, spiraling on.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, totally.

[Jess Wolfe]

There's a lot to spiral on, so.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know what you mean. I'm just kidding. Hey, it's me. Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because you and I go way back, right? Yeah. And look at us now, like, we're all grown up. We've got this new podcast where we talk about all this grown up stuff and there's special guests like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media Alive with Steve burns is coming September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts or you can watch every episode on YouTube. Can I ask. As mothers, as parents. Sorry, that feels. I don't know why mothers felt gross as mothers. Feels gross. Felt like a lactation consultant. I didn't like it as mothers. How's the latching going? I just. I didn't like it as parents.

[Jess Wolfe]

She's got teeth now.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no. Do you? This is a leading question. Just full disclosure. Are you grateful when you're not tired to have this other aspect of your life where you get to be rock stars, where you get to fill this other aspect of you? Because I find as a parent, there's a lot of giving, a lot of sacrificing. And then when I go and perform, I really go like, oh, I don't even perform that much, but I go, thank God. Something we can call mojo or swagger or being in control of something. It's so. Parenting is so much compromising and real time. You know what it is, but, like, I don't know what the right move is here. Then you go on stage and you're like, I know what I'm gonna do. These people all seem rested. Like, it brings it out of you. And then you come back and I feel like a better partner, better father. The day after shows often. Can you.

[Jess Wolfe]

That's so nice.

[Pete Holmes]

Relate to that mostly. I mean, what's the not part? Go ahead, Jess. Have a fight on stage.

[Holly Laessig]

I mean, it's still early days. Like, real tired.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. It's only 10 months.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You might. This might be a year or so.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Yes. I feel relief and release from performing. And I also feel like in a.

[Pete Holmes]

Bit of a tunnel, of course.

[Jess Wolfe]

And like postpartum. I mean, there's just so many aspects, like just the exhaustion and the postpartum and the.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you postparting pretty hard?

[Jess Wolfe]

I feel like now weirdly more than. I mean, I didn't really experience that in the earliest days.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. By the way, sorry. I just want you to feel safe and welcome in this topic. If men experience postpartum, it would be on there would be 22 TV shows dedicated to just that. It would be the most common stand up topic, the most common song. It's just really insane.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I know I'm a man. I'm just saying like watching Val and watching all of my friends that have had kids be like, oh, our strategy as a nation is to just not talk about this and be like, women are weird. You know what I mean? And no help, no support.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I, I just wanted you to. A little solidarity. It's crazy. It is crazy that we're not talking about it more. So I'm welcoming you to talk about it if you'd like.

[Jess Wolfe]

Thank you. Yeah. I, like, I'm always okay, but it, it, it's, it's just harder to move through the mud sometimes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And to find that relief release, it just, it's just feels harder to get there right now and. But generally I do think that does get open up the energy and the space for the other parts of your life. Like, you know, the, the grueling days with baby. Yeah. I don't know, I feel like I'm in a bit of, a, bit of a tunnel at the moment.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So is it. Maybe. I do think you will later have that experience of like, oh, I'm glad I have this thing, but I forgot your baby's so young. So now you're probably coming home after a show and then just staying up with the baby.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean he's a pretty good sleeper, but like anything, you know, being on the bus and it's bumpy or whatever, you know, he's up or regardless if he has a good night's sleep, he's still up at 6 in the morning.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And you know on tour when you're singing late at night and then, you know, without good sleep, your voice is suffering. We're singing. Singing, you know. Yeah, singing.

[Holly Laessig]

So like 6:30 in the morning, making oatmeal in the microwave while the bus is moving. The baby in a, a little high chair.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Attached to the table. But I mean, it does make a lie.

[Pete Holmes]

This is what I'm saying. Every movie, every John Wick movie would be microwave and babies.

[Jess Wolfe]

And we both toured till eight and a half months pregnant.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Holly Laessig]

Tour before the, I mean before kids though, is. It's so much waiting. I mean you're like, it's the other 22 hours it's waiting and then you have this huge burst of like energy for two hours at the show and then, you know, so it's like this massive roller Coaster. And now it's a little bit more evened out, you know, because you're using your energy all day. And kids are great to have around and everyone. And you've got all these aunties and uncles that you can just hand them to.

[Jess Wolfe]

That's true.

[Holly Laessig]

They're all around you all the time.

[Jess Wolfe]

There is a certain levity.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

So there.

[Holly Laessig]

It feels weirdly balanced, actually.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I know what you mean.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like momentum as opposed to, like, reserves. Like, I think what touring can feel like. Being a firefighter, like, you're just sitting around waiting for the bell to go off, and then the bell goes off and you do the show. But with kids, you're kind of putting out all these little fires.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then at night you do a big fire. Yeah, I. I think.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So they are on the bus with you and you, days off and stuff, I'm assuming.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. But, you know, never a day off.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. I mean, I guess we will drive through the night. We park, the babies are up. We probably go find coffee, maybe find a playground nearby, hang out. And then, you know, it's sound check mid afternoon.

[Pete Holmes]

And the show I've never even really thought about. Like, the parents at a playground might be touring rock stars just kind of like pushing a kid on the swing. And later that night, stars, they're just like us. And you mentioned singing. Singing, too. I mean, that is. If I was explaining Lucius to somebody, I would be like. I don't know, I'd say power. Like a powerful singing style.

[Jess Wolfe]

Dynamic. Very dynamic.

[Pete Holmes]

Dynamic. But also I do sometimes go like, that must feel really good. Like, some of the notes and some of the moments, I'm like, that's gotta feel. Yeah, yeah. It's not a very repressed sound.

[Jess Wolfe]

Erykah Badu. Am I allowed to curse on here? Yeah. Okay. Erykah Badu watched before a show. I can see it. I can say that Erykah Badu, once before a show, stopped us and said, all right, girls, sing from your pussy.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Jess Wolfe]

And you know what? She's not wrong.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you. But don't. That is amazing. Sing. You. And you think that's true? Like, really go as deep as you can.

[Holly Laessig]

It really is.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, there's something. I'm not a chakra crystal person, but there's something about that area.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The energy, which chakra. It's your root chakra. When you're sitting, obviously your butthole's in the mix too, but everything down there.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, you just experienced that the Power of that.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. I mean, your diaphragm, I mean, it's all connected.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And your throat. I'm not trying to be gross or funny. Have you ever gotten an endoscopy or any sort of.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The thing down your nose. Uhhuh. It's very vaginal. Yeah, it's just another vagina.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's very vaginal.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Next time you get the nose camera, just be like, wow, there it is. And if you're wondering if I said that to my doctor. Yes, I did. Was she a woman? Yes, she was. And did she agree? Yes, she did. Thank goodness. What if she was like, get out of my office.

[Jess Wolfe]

I wonder if we have the same.

[Pete Holmes]

Doctor in LA at Cedars. It might be.

[Jess Wolfe]

Does it start with a G?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. I haven't seen them. Have you ever heard of Entertainer Secret? Is that something? Yep. Do you like it?

[Jess Wolfe]

I. I used to take it when I was younger. Yeah, I do.

[Pete Holmes]

It's okay. I just found it because I lose my voice. It's just a throat spray. What's your technique?

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, straw phonation. That. That'll help you.

[Pete Holmes]

Straw phonation?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that?

[Jess Wolfe]

I'll send you some videos.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's like a process.

[Holly Laessig]

It is.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's so easy. You basically blow through a straw into water and it stretches your cords.

[Pete Holmes]

No way.

[Jess Wolfe]

Your muscles.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

And you do different. There's some different exercises you can do. You don't need to be a skilled singer or anything like that, but I. I have felt that. And also doing a cool down, not just a warm up, helps with endurance because I have struggled with that because we do a lot of belting and stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Which, you know, yelling. I mean, using your voice. But you can yell in a certain way.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I went and saw a guy and he was trying to get me to yell properly.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's hard because it feels unnatural. But the more you do it, the more it feels natural.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Or at least you just think about the placement of things. Even makes the adjustment just thinking about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Oh, interesting. Can I ask a strange May. I don't think it's that strange listening to you ladies singing and talking a little bit about marketing. Right. The music industry. This sounds like a something you'd talk about at, like, Vassar in like a women's study class. But I really mean it. I was like, why is my brain going, oh, this is the sound that I associate with background singers. Two women singing, you know, mild Flex here. I got over it, but I noticed. Oh, why does my brain go. This sounds like Mick Jagger is going to come in and be like, thank you, ladies. You know what I mean? Like, that's. And then I wanted to get your take. I love that you both humorlessly nodded at my Mick Jagger impression.

[Jess Wolfe]

This is loaded for us.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it loaded? Well, then I'm gonna finish everything I have to say, and I'm gonna give it to you. Is that this idea that bands and art in general are something that propagates these ideas of, like, gender norms and also just, like, societal structures. The man, like Sinatra is like, the dad. He's like the patriarch. He's the president. He's the commander. What do they call him? I wish he was the. Yeah, but they called him, like, the. The chairman of the board. And that's not a. So right there, we're saying, like, yes, the singer. The stage mimics and reflects the power structure, which is a guy in a suit. Why is he wearing a suit? Why is he so cool? Why is he calm? He's leading the band. The band are his employees. And I even think there's something about. There's these women that are backing him up and supporting him. Then you get like, Whitney Houston or something like that, and we're like, we're still kind of comfortable. We're still kind of like, okay, yeah, she's a woman. She's kind of like, she's out there, but you might even be thinking she's looking for a man. Like, there's something going on there that might be a stretch. That might be my weird Christian thing. Like, she's, like, showcasing to be like, aren't I beautiful? And the guy's like, aren't I cool? And it's like, these guys should get together. All I'm saying is Lucius sort of breaks that a little bit. And I'd like every thought you have on how the stage is a reflection of societal norms and what it's felt like to sort of challenge that. Or do you feel like you're challenging them? Oh, well, I thought I had you all lit up and then. Did I talk too much?

[Jess Wolfe]

No, no, no. It's just. Well, it started with the background vocals.

[Holly Laessig]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

I think people automatically think background singer when they see two people singing together in harmonies, which has been a blessing and a curse in our careers, because people. We do sing with a lot. We collaborate a lot, and people think of us as background singers. Like, they're. They are a set.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Like, if, like, we've done so many collaborations where if we were one person, it would have probably said featuring, but because there's two and we're kind of like singing around the. The lead, you know, not credited. It's not.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, depends who it is.

[Holly Laessig]

Depends. Oftentimes credited, but maybe not like featuring. The way that it's no longer a duet, it's the person. And then us, you've now become like.

[Pete Holmes]

An instrument kind of. As opposed to Phoebe Bridgers.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right, Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And if Phoebe was singing with another person, maybe she would have had the same packaging problem.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, maybe.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't know. Maybe from the start and that's how they presented and you know. But.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, I mean, when. When we started, we wanted to both lead sing. We liked the sound of the double tracked vocal and we could do that live. And we like the idea of coordinating and then eventually like perfectly matching our outfits so that people would see us as a unit, the way they hear us as a unit.

[Jess Wolfe]

Like a choir.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. And so that we would become this like two headed beast, like its own entity with this third voice. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

A choir is now the Something Tabernacle Choir. It's not Bill and Sally. So you kind of leaned into that.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. But then it bit us in the ass a little bit.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In what way?

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, just in that people identify us as background singers.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And I think it's. While there's nothing wrong with that, we have a. We are lead singers together. We are. We are a band. We're. And I think when they think of you as background singers, it's. It puts you in a certain place. I don't know if it's energetically or if it's. I mean, it's not just energetically, but it's happened that way where we've been treated as. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What's interesting that you do with the beautiful wigs and the outfits. I saw you at Largo, which I really enjoyed seeing you backstage and being like, I gotta go put on the wig, which I thought was really cool. And then you do become this thing. And rock and roll is so like about differentiation and like standing out. Right. I mean, I think I'm maybe close to an interesting question. It's like, we want showboats. And you guys are being like, no, we're actually merging. Does that make sense?

[Jess Wolfe]

It was also like the head in the heart. You have a set in the beginning. Like, we couldn't afford production, so we were like, we're the production.

[Pete Holmes]

The way that you dress with the.

[Jess Wolfe]

Way that we dress.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. That's the Spectacle.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. People would be like, what is that? Who are they?

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Draws a crowd. I mean, well, like, Head in the Heart has multiple lead singers. You've toured with them, but they're all doing their own thing.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

They're like, I'm the one with the hat. I really like Head in the Heart. I'm not making fun of it.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, no.

[Pete Holmes]

But they're decidedly, like, what was that? It had a really long name. The Symphonic. Blah, blah. Everybody needs a bosom for a pillow oh.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, my God. And they played with us.

[Pete Holmes]

Katie will look it up.

[Jess Wolfe]

They also wear, like, sort of.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, they're merging, too.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

That's like culty.

[Pete Holmes]

Everybody Needs a bosom for a pillow band. That's what they're called. 45 Spree Spree, Polyphonics Free or Arcade Fire. And there's like, 30 of them. Like, so there is this weird, like.

[Jess Wolfe]

But you still think about when, like, you think about.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, Right. Which is why that instinct when I'm listening to you, you're waiting for. For. But I was noticing a bias. Like, not a preference, just like a. We already addressed this. But it's interesting that we really want rock stars to be, I don't know.

[Jess Wolfe]

Singular.

[Pete Holmes]

Singular. We want Bono. Even with Bono, we're like, stop mentioning the Edge. Stop it.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Well, another thing, too, is that on some records and recordings that we've done, we've gotten. We love layering. We've gotten, like, really carried away with layering our vocals. So there's like a million. So it really is just like this choir, this ethereal choir, and you can't really find, like, the. Like, where to look.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

With your ears.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

And so on the most recent record, we did a lot more. A lot of, like, we did some layering, then we'd end up taking it off because we're like, this isn't intimate enough. You can't find.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Holly Laessig]

The storyteller here. Yeah. And.

[Jess Wolfe]

Or the preacher, whatever the thing. I think that's what people want.

[Pete Holmes]

The chairman of the board.

[Jess Wolfe]

Want the chairman of the board. Right. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, who am I?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so silly.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I think there is something interesting about this, though. It's like you're listening to it and the things we're. We're like, what do people latch on to? And it might be harder to. By the way. There's no. You know, that. I'm not saying, like, that's what you should do in a million years. Just saying it's interesting that we're like, we want Personas.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Huh? It's like that thing.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I think having. It's funny because it was the thing that we were like, oh, we could do this live. We could be a double tracked vocal live. Like the way that Phil Spector recorded. Or the way that Les Paul and Mary Ford, like, a lot of Elliot Smith, like, doubled their vocals.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's kind of. I hear Elliot in your music.

[Jess Wolfe]

Because it's. It's. It's cool. It sounds cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

But it's still one singular.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And even though we make one when we sing.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I do. I do think people, like, tend to. This is why we're not successful.

[Pete Holmes]

But isn't that weird? Dude, you're saying something. The Beatles doubled their vocals. Nirvana doubled. Everybody doubles vocals and their guitars. Everything is all fake. But then we want to think. I don't know. I went to Green Day and I'm like, it's a three piece. And then you listen to the record and there's like nine guitars.

[Holly Laessig]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, we don't care.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll hold on to, like, it's Kurt Cobain, but it's really three Kurt Cobain.

[Holly Laessig]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like three Elliot. Yeah, but we're like, but it's Elliot.

[Jess Wolfe]

But it's Elliot. Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't notice. There's a lot. You. You guys are on a lot of, like, here's a band that's the best band you probably haven't heard about. We're like, have you heard the best album of the century by these two pieces of. It's like, you're on a lot of, like, lists. Lists of the best thing that you maybe you don't know about.

[Holly Laessig]

That has never.

[Jess Wolfe]

You're right. Made it. That is basically our career in a nutshell. This is the greatest thing you'll never know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They always have to hit you with the other hand.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But they're. Maybe they're trying to make you sound cool. I'd like to think, like, underground.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, totally. I mean, this is something you can discover.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right. Doesn't mean it's happened, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. But it's a little bit like movie stars. And I don't. We're an individual culture.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe we've exhausted this. Like, did you. Am I correct that you auditioned for American Idol? I know. That was a lifetime ago. Really?

[Jess Wolfe]

This thing is forever.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it always take it off your Wikipedia Delete it. Delete it from Wikipedia. Delete it.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't put it on. Is it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know, but you can take it off. You know what you can do? You can add. Please don't ask me about this. But I was going to. Because you can edit it yourself.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You can say Jess has stated publicly. Not that she doesn't really enjoy talking about this in interviews, but the reason. Well, because American Idol is one person. We want to make Kelly Clarkson. There are no duos. It's again, it's just that, like the corporation.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

McDonald's.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. This was a long time ago.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sure it was.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it was just. Is it embarrassing?

[Jess Wolfe]

Is that it just has no meaning for me or did not. I mean, there was just nothing. It was a joke. Really. Yeah, I mean, it was all predetermined, so.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you mean it didn't feel like a true competition?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, I mean, whatever. I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

But you're not alone. I've heard that.

[Jess Wolfe]

So relieved it wasn't more than what it was.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. But it was a long time ago and. And I just don't. It's. Yeah. You know, it's cheap. That's what it is. It feels cheap. Although Cali is a superstar.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you mean early Idol. Early Idol seemed to be its own. I don't know. I didn't know realize I was idol apologist. Well, Kelly was the first one and then Clay Aiken was the second one. And then I think it really became something else. Ish.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. And I remember, like, it was fun to watch and it was the first. It was kind of like, you know, we used to watch Star Search.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Remember stars?

[Pete Holmes]

Of course. Three and a half stars. You have to lose on Star Search. That's the key. Oh, you don't know the curse.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's like not graduating from Berkeley.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you drop out of Berkeley?

[Holly Laessig]

No, neither of us technically graduated.

[Jess Wolfe]

We have folders that, you know beautiful leather bound, engraved, gold folders. And you open it up and there's a piece of paper that's like, this is not an official diploma.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Jess Wolfe]

You still have a few credits to.

[Pete Holmes]

Finish, but I don't know much about Berkeley, but that feels very Berkeley to me.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, it's like there's like a curse, an unspoken curse if you've graduated.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I was gonna ask you because we've had a lot of band. I'm from Boston, so I know Berkeley. I briefly wanted to go to Berkeley. Who cares? But I don't know A lot. I just got. Who cares?

[Holly Laessig]

Guitar player.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I wanted to go into music production. I thought it was so fun. But then I realized that's just because nobody wanted to be in a band with me. And I had a four track, you know what I mean? Like, I was close to my interest, but it was actually showboating. It wasn't. I don't want to make someone else shine. That would have driven me crazy. But I was like. For all the bands, I don't know, a lot of them that graduated from Berkeley from. From any music school. Yeah. But certainly Berkeley. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So that there is a curse to it.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, supposedly.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, how many bands is the average person attending Berkeley in? Is it like four? I can't. I mean, regular college, there's probably 10 other musicians.

[Jess Wolfe]

You mean while you're in school, While you're there.

[Pete Holmes]

If everyone's a musician, right, and all you're doing is playing music all day, why wouldn't you just form a million bands?

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean. Yeah, I think that happens.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

There's a lot of throwing spaghetti at the wall, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Jess Wolfe]

Let's see.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll see what happens.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But then you two met and then you dropped. Well, you didn't finish and then you went to Brooklyn.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

To the magical house.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. First there was a stepping stone house.

[Pete Holmes]

In between, but it didn't get a record.

[Jess Wolfe]

It didn't get a record.

[Pete Holmes]

It was nice house. Not record worthy, but it sounds so romantic. You went into a Victorian house.

[Jess Wolfe]

Ye.

[Pete Holmes]

And there were old pianos and I have to imagine amazing acoustics in this old wooden, absolutely spacious house in Brooklyn.

[Jess Wolfe]

Very weird. Yeah. Ditmas Park.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Ditmas Park. That's where you see them. That's like in Sophie's Choice. They live in Brooklyn. Yeah, exactly. So this house had to be like turn of the century, right?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes, I. I don't remember the year, but yes, they're. I mean, gorgeous, Gorgeous Victorian homes. Kind of like painted ladies but detached.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

And we were the first tenants after the owners that had had it forever, so it was beautiful. Wow. We went back recently, not so good. And wished we had not gone back and seen it because it's gotten.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Run down. Real run down.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, there's like, like boarded up.

[Jess Wolfe]

There was like army trucks in the driveway. It was a weird vibe.

[Holly Laessig]

It was a weird vibe. Yeah, it's. I mean, like when we moved in, we had nine musicians with us, but we were the first tenants, so it was still beautiful. But since. Since we were There they kept renting it out to like, you know, large groups of young people and it just hasn't been taken care of. And the two brothers that own it are unique.

[Pete Holmes]

The Brothers Titmous.

[Jess Wolfe]

The Brothers Titmous.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But did there. Are you believers in like a place inspiring your art and bleeding into it and then. Feel free to speak on that. But also, like, Brooklyn versus LA is very interesting to me how you find the two.

[Jess Wolfe]

It was vibrant at the time. Like, I remember when we first got to New York. I mean, there was just such a scene and there was such a community and we were writing and exploring and we went to open mics every Wednesday night and.

[Pete Holmes]

And did the kind of Lucius thing.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. It was just the two of us and sang our new song for that week.

[Pete Holmes]

And you wrote a song each week?

[Jess Wolfe]

At least one.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Most of them were terrible.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

You know, but. But we were just practicing. We were just finding our. Our path and inspired by what was going on around us, which felt. Yeah. Again, very vibrant and. Yeah, this was 2007.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. When I was in Brooklyn.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

It was just a good.

[Holly Laessig]

It was a scene.

[Jess Wolfe]

Something. Yeah, it was. There's something magical in the air, in the jazz scene. We were very much active and inspired by. And it was just a really, really cool time. And, you know, I don't know, I feel like once we got to touring, going back home to Brooklyn, it started to shift. I don't know if it was just us shifting or that the actual community was shifting or dispersing, but it started to feel like, I don't know, different and time to move on.

[Pete Holmes]

My favorite song, but Tom Petty again, he won't Stop coming up. I also. So you left in 2000?

[Jess Wolfe]

2015.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so not. I left in 2010, but I think I noticed the shift that you're talking about.

[Jess Wolfe]

And we were on tour, like probably all of 14. Sorry, 12 to end of 14. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So it's interesting you mentioned jazz. Is this non vocal jazz? Like, I don't mean to say jazz jazz, but there's like jazz singing and then there's like guys or people playing jazz. You like that?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, I mean, it was like Robert Glasper and Chris Dave and all these incredible players.

[Pete Holmes]

What was it that. That spoke to you? I mean, I. I really love jazz.

[Jess Wolfe]

I mean, John Batiste, before he was John Batiste, you know, that everyone knows, and Louis Cato and Near Felder and all these people. I don't know, we were just. You just. There was just A vibrancy. It was just electric and. Yeah, there was all these amazing little clubs and you could just hop from one to the next. And a lot of them aren't there anymore, right. Yeah, but it was just. It felt. Zinc bar. Do you remember zinc bar?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think so.

[Jess Wolfe]

The original zinc bar. I think there's still. There's. There is another one, and I'm sure it's great. But the original one, I don't know, there was just a scene. It was magical.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And like, raw, too, right? It was, like, unfiltered.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And very real.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It started to get found out in a way.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Again, I think people, you know, get to touring and realize, like. Oh. And have families and realize they're gonna need different things or long for different things. And so it just started dispersing in a way.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Naturally. But it felt like it was time for the sunshine and we wanted a barbecue in our backyard.

[Pete Holmes]

We're very similar. Once I. Look, I'm not putting down New York, but there's a certain kind of yes to going to California. When you get here and it's all sunny and you're driving with the windows down. I'm not saying every part of LA is great, but when I got here, I was like, what is this? And, like, sometimes you're not ready to give yourself that kind of a yes. But I'm really glad that I was. I was like, it's time for this. I want sushi and salads. I don't want subway and pizza anymore. I love going back. But there's a certain next stage of.

[Jess Wolfe]

Life, space and sunshine. When I go to sky, like, periphery.

[Pete Holmes]

Periphery, which is really important to just feeling a general sense of safety, by the way, is being able to see the horizon, being able to know where your exits are. Just on a very basic level, have you seen that Grateful Dead documentary where somebody's having a bad acid trip and Jerry Garcia is like, yeah, this. This truck is blocking the horizon. Go over there.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

You need to be able to see where you are. And in New York, you. And again, I love it. I'm about to go there. But, like, you can feel like, where is this? Fifth Avenue.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

But where? That's all you need to know. Maybe that's all you need to know.

[Jess Wolfe]

And at the time, that was, like, so exciting. Like, there was just constancy and a pulse and, you know, you wanted something, you could get it at any time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And then, you know, what you want is just quiet Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

I definitely noticed the last time we went to New York. How loud.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so loud.

[Jess Wolfe]

Wow.

[Holly Laessig]

I was taking all of this in all day, every day.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Overstimulated.

[Pete Holmes]

And we left la. We're up north of la and I was like, now when I come back to la, I. I feel that way. You can always up level your quiet game and you're like, wow, I'm so sensitive.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But when I was in New York, I didn't even notice it. But I would say if you're not in New YORK in your 20s, not for everybody, but I was like that. That would have been a waste. I'm so glad I was there for a decade. When you don't notice stuff like that.

[Jess Wolfe]

Absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

And then when you start going like, why is my building shaking every time a truck goes by? It might be time to look to the west.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you. It's kind of a cliche. Are the bands out here more business minded? It didn't feel that way.

[Jess Wolfe]

I think once we got here we were. We had already found such a community and we were so like in our, you know, sort of system or whatever, I mean, in our flow. And so when we got home, when we got here, it really felt like we weren't searching for a new community. Whereas when we first got to New York, it was like, how do we get in? How do we see everything? How do we meet everyone?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

When we got here, it was really about, how do I close the door.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

You know, and quiet down.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And because we're going to be on tour and we're going to see all that stuff and then we get to come home to our respite.

[Pete Holmes]

You're at a cruising altitude. The ascension is very interesting, but that's where all the bumps are. And then cruising altitude. Not as good of a story, right? Way better.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Better night's sleep.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. Way, way better.

[Holly Laessig]

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[Pete Holmes]

I know we talked a little bit about like the, the marketing. But I'm, I'm really interested that I'm sure musicians are listening. I'm sure you get this all the time. So let's get in one fell swoop. It's 2025. You're trying to be a musician.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you want to know? What do you wish you had known? Because you're talking. What brought it to mind was talking about those relationships and sounds like you're involved in community not just with your own band, but with other bands. So that seems like one thing. The company you keep probably makes a big difference, but just would you indulge the, the young musicians that are listening that are wondering?

[Holly Laessig]

I mean, the landscape has changed so much since we were in that space as far as like social media and like connecting. But I, I do think that it's still that nothing beats like face to face community and going to shows and seeing live music and meeting people.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you mean just good old fashioned green room stuff, like just being like.

[Holly Laessig]

That's the lasting stuff, you know, it.

[Jess Wolfe]

Cannot be replaced by anything.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

I do think community is everything.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Without. I mean, we're a community in, in itself.

[Pete Holmes]

But.

[Jess Wolfe]

Having people that you can lean on, that you could share ideas with, that inspire you input.

[Pete Holmes]

Val and I were just talking about that so we often. I'm assuming you're the same way. Often just go like, I don't, I don't even know what to make because I don't even know what I like. And then you watch something and you're like, God damn. Like, that's. That, that's so good. And Val was just reminding me like, as much as we love just kind of, you know, relaxing and watching something light every once in a while we're like, we gotta watch like a film, like something good.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That doesn't mean like hard to watch, but like something that was keeping somebody out of bed. Like they had to get up and write that thing and make that thing. So input consuming good stuff. Being inspired by the people around you and then being physically present. I forget who I quote this guy all the time. I should really look it up. But he's like the six the Geography of Success and the example that he uses that Arnold Schwarzenegger wanted to be a bodybuilder, so he was always in the gym. If you want to be a musician, you're in clubs, you're in venues, you're with musicians, you're in rehearsal spaces or whatever that might be. And it just kind of, that's where it's happening is that. Do you feel that's right?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Be around the thing that you want to create and make and the people that inspire you. Yeah, absolutely.

[Holly Laessig]

And make something that's meaningful to you and not worry about the likes and all of that stuff. Because the stuff that you feel like you have to create that means something to you is what's going to last and what you're going to want to do. Continue to.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Perform or whatever it is.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't envy all these youngsters who are starting from the place of needing to be tapped in to social media in a way that, you know, we didn't have to think about that because it wasn't there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, totally. It's changed. Live shows, even this podcast, I joked at the beginning, like, oh, we got our clip. We never used to think about clips. And I try not to think about clips, but it is the, like, clipification of all things as you do a live show in hopes of getting like a one minute clip that goes super viral.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, that sucks.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, and the thing is, if you make something meaningful, like Holly was saying, people will connect. So just worry about making the thing that's meaningful.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jess Wolfe]

And then.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's long game. It's like a life of art and a life of music.

[Jess Wolfe]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I really am curious what's going to happen. And I can't blame anybody. When I was young, I was getting my camcorder and making these bad videos. I mean, I thought they were great and they probably were okay. But like, then it was just for its own sake to maybe one day get better and better and better. But I would be posting that and then one of them picks up and then I'm like, we'll do more of that. And like, guess what? You work in a corporation now. Like, you have meetings about bottom line and synergy and collaboration and, and boost post and all that stuff. It's like they turned you playing with toys on the corner of your bed into Microsoft and that fucking blows.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, it certainly creates a. I don't know, a vapidness. Like there's just a thing that feels so much less connected, even though we are more connected. And we, and we talk about this a lot and we write about it. We have a. We have a record that we haven't released yet that that is. Is all about that. And you know, just the, the more connected we are, the less we actually connect weirdly. Well.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, would you agree with this? It's like at a show, at A Lucius show. It's a. It's. It's getting it wrong. If you're wondering what the set list will be, or will they play this or whatever or how well will they play or even that. It's like. It's this excuse to be together, and the songs are like this blanket that kind of tie everything together. Does that make sense? Like, when I go on stage, I go. I say this all the time, but I want to hear. Your response is like. It's not about the words. It's not about me doing the joke perfectly. It's all this excuse to just be together for a little while, because that really can't be achieved other than being together.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You can watch a video, you can watch a VR of being together. It doesn't work. It doesn't make sense.

[Jess Wolfe]

They say, like, meditate together and you meditate for the world, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

So same same thing. Laugh together and.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's about joining into some placeless place. You kind of lose yourself into an audience, into a show, and then you're not even there. But then, kind of paradoxically, we're all there. I know that sounds very hippie dippy. No, but if you vanish, but you're still there.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If I go away in a song and you go away in a situation song, we're in the same place. And I don't mean that metaphorically. That emptiness. I know the song is there, but it's the same experience. And that's really, really beautiful.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

And it feels like brain food, too. In this time that we're in. Of, like, attention, fragmentation, everything's like, you know, 20 seconds here and 20 seconds there, and you're here and there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

So when you go to a show or, I know, a film or even. Or whatever it is with people, and you're there in this moment for a long period of time, it just feels nourishing.

[Pete Holmes]

I honestly feel that way. Even in this podcast, there's moments where we're all just kind of, like, thinking or considering, and I'm like, yeah, those are delicacies. Like, you watch things that are clipped, all the ahs and ums. Like, you can watch a ted talk in 30 seconds, and it's like. But it turns out it wasn't really information. Even a TED Talk, you might learn something. But it was about this sort of. I don't know, the space of listening and grooving with someone else and kind of experiencing their trip is really what you were after. And we know this because instagram will summarize a cooking instruction video. Like, we didn't watch Julia Child to learn how to cook. You know what I mean? We watched it to be with Julia Child. We wanted to be in her kitchen. We wanted to watch her mistakes. But now you watch a video where it's like, if you've got a chicken breast in half, it'll cook in half the time. And that's perfect every time. And you're just like. You just go, like. Like, what we think we want is actually really far away from what we actually want.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we think we just want orgasm. Like, that's pornography.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Wrong. We think we just want sugar and fat and starch or whatever it is. That's also wrong. You wanted to be bumping elbows with your friends and the, you know, the Chianti with the candle in it. The hippies were right. That's what made me think about your Victorian house and go, like, that must have been so sweet. And this life, being parents is such a forced community. Talk about what you want being the last thing you would think you would want. But that's parenting.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, there are parts that are slow.

[Holly Laessig]

Slow down. Like, you're forced to slow down, too.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly right.

[Jess Wolfe]

Eye contact. Like, yeah, you are. You are so much more aware of what. Of your actions and how they affect this little person discovering the universe.

[Pete Holmes]

What? Well put. And just. I have this rule. It won't come into play for you just for years, but, like, the 45 second rule. And this. I can't always do it. In fact, I often can't. But Leila's getting in the car. We're running late for school. She's getting in the car and, like, if we leave right now, we'll be on time.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But of course, she's, like, getting in the car in this weird way. You know what I mean? She's rolling and, like. And I can't even close the door. I'm like. Because at this point, I'm willing to drive in our driveway with her. Not buckled. But she's, like, doing all this, and I always just go, 45 seconds. 45 seconds. Never. Maybe at NASA makes a big difference, but usually 45 seconds doesn't make a real difference. So you just go, I'm gonna allow this for 45 seconds. And then you'll see it actually only takes 20 seconds. It never takes 45 seconds. But it's these little beings that make you go, like, what am I doing? Rushing. When 20 seconds, being 20 seconds later will never Matter. Unless it's a shuttle launch or an airplane or something like that. But like for the most part. But there. And also to what you were saying. I catch these moments where Leila. They're so meaningful to me. Is looking for some sort of connection. You and I, we're all looking for connection with eye contact now. But with kids and your kids. Very different. It's like a real life or death.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is the world safe or is it not safe? You know, that calms down. But like you can give them these moments of like, look and you're getting it from a person.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it. You got me talking about parenting. I'm excited for you. And it's the roughest. I'll give you whatever you want. Optimism or solidarity. It's crazy making. And it's the best.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's the best. Hardest best.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the best. Hardest best. Good album title. And not for Lucius. But some. Maybe.

[Jess Wolfe]

Who knows? I know. Can you. Did you see this for yourself when we were all in Hawaii?

[Pete Holmes]

Honestly? Okay. So we had this. I consider it a magical.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Night. My special came out. Do you remember that?

[Jess Wolfe]

Your what?

[Pete Holmes]

Didn't I have a stand up special? Wasn't that.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

While we were there.

[Pete Holmes]

While we were there.

[Holly Laessig]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

So we're on this Ram Dass retreat and we went to our little room and we watched. It was an HBO special. We watched it when it aired.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then there was like a full moon and there was like mushrooms and mushrooms dancing and barefootedness. It was really special. And I look back on that very fondly and kind of to what you were saying earlier about it used to be all this waiting and then these bursts and now it's just like life all day. I look back at that and go like, oh, I'm not taking anything away from that. But I'm like, that felt like a holding. I don't know how to explain it. When my daughter was born, everything got much more real. And now I look back on those memories, but I don't pine for them. I'm like, I'm glad I have them, but I'm not spending a lot of time going like, I wish I was just watching my HBO special with Friends. I'm like, that's kind of stupid.

[Jess Wolfe]

It was a big deal. And we had all just met.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Fast retreat.

[Jess Wolfe]

Friends there to try and better ourselves.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

And so there was, you know, an openness.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And yeah, you're absolutely right. And a lot of potential and not a lot of plans. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's probably better than I'm even remembering.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, it was really, it was. I mean, that night in particular, but that, that week or whatever it was.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. I remember it very. With, with, with a lot of joy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think our kids will feel that, oh, this is a mom or a dad that, like, had nice times. I'm not gonna be watching her having nice times and being like, should be me. You know what I mean?

[Jess Wolfe]

If we didn't have those, there's a certain part of us that couldn't give.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jess Wolfe]

You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jess Wolfe]

In the same way.

[Pete Holmes]

That's where here, in our final thank you for being so generous with your time. What are in these giant.

[Jess Wolfe]

Water?

[Holly Laessig]

Such moms.

[Jess Wolfe]

Can you imagine? It's water.

[Pete Holmes]

You gotta get it.

[Jess Wolfe]

Water and ice.

[Pete Holmes]

Gotta get it.

[Jess Wolfe]

I'm an ice girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Ice girl. Yeah, Nice.

[Jess Wolfe]

All kinds of ice, but particularly pellet ice.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you a crush?

[Jess Wolfe]

Pellet crush?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Coffee bean nugget ice.

[Pete Holmes]

You like coffee bean ice?

[Jess Wolfe]

Sonic, Sonic in the Styrofoam Sonic ice. You know that you could buy sonic.

[Pete Holmes]

Ice bags from Sonic?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes, for like 2. $2.

[Holly Laessig]

Wow.

[Jess Wolfe]

For a bag.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good deal.

[Jess Wolfe]

And it's the best ice ever.

[Pete Holmes]

You bring it to a party?

[Jess Wolfe]

No, I keep it for myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Sonic ice and coffee bean ice. Same ice. Pretty sure it's not.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's not. It's similar, but it's not, it's not soft.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, Sonic is soft.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you ever gotten into the nuance of the different Diet Cokes? There's like McDonald's Diet Coke.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's worth a, Worth a Google.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Holly Laessig]

Do you think it's soft because they just keep it at like, a slightly lower temperature. I don't know, Melting.

[Jess Wolfe]

I think that you can buy a sonic ice machine for like 20 grand. And I mean, I, I, if I had. No, I can't, but I wish I could. It would make my life better.

[Pete Holmes]

Can we. I think we could do a GoFundMe for that. The most. Like, please buy me.

[Jess Wolfe]

Send me an ice machine for Lucius.

[Pete Holmes]

New mom, the Bandube band.

[Holly Laessig]

Lucius you should know, but have never heard of it.

[Pete Holmes]

The ice that you've never heard of, but you should. You are sonic ice. Lucius is the sonic ice of bands.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, okay, I'm sorry, but ice lovers.

[Pete Holmes]

Know about sonic ice and music lovers know about Lucius. Come on.

[Jess Wolfe]

You might be right. You might be right.

[Pete Holmes]

We met at this Ram Dass retreat. We have like 10ish. 10ish minutes here. I think that's a soft 10.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Where are you both? I always think it's funny that I go, we have like 10 minutes. What's the meaning of life? I am curious. Do you have any sort of framework because you like Jaramdas? Still in Jaramdas.

[Jess Wolfe]

Still into Ram Dass.

[Pete Holmes]

Love a good Ram Dass.

[Jess Wolfe]

Love a good Ram Dass. I'm so glad we had some time with Ramdas.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. Me too.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's not the same.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not the same. I actually, sometimes, because I'm in that community, get like an email. Like we're doing a new book or we're doing a series of interviews to draw attention to it. And I'm like, I don't mean to be so of the body, but I am like, it was more fun when he was around. I don't like the archival feeling of like. But still, that stuff is great. And I go back to it time and time again.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that. Do you.

[Jess Wolfe]

You. I listened to his record for the first time with you also. I remember we used to play these drawing. Well, that's a side. That's aside. That's a side you play.

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Jess Wolfe]

We used to play this, like, game, Five Second Animal.

[Pete Holmes]

Five Second Animal. John Leland made that up.

[Jess Wolfe]

He did?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, I'm. I'm still very close to John.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Holly knows John.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Five Second Animal. We just saw John when he was in Ohio. He came through anyway.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Five Second Animal. I'm glad you brought this up.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

This is the meaning of life.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Everybody gets a piece of paper. The. The person who's running the game names an animal, and you just do it. You draw it. Five seconds.

[Jess Wolfe]

We should do this.

[Pete Holmes]

We can do it right now.

[Holly Laessig]

You just look around at everyone.

[Jess Wolfe]

No. And then you. You pick which one is the best one.

[Pete Holmes]

I picked the best one. Do you want to do it here? This is the best game in the world. And I've thought about how to.

[Jess Wolfe]

We're a big game band. Yeah. Before. Before every show, we do something called mind meld. I'm sure you know about mind meld. Mind meld. So, like, on the. We could play that game next. But on the count of three, two people say a word, whatever word comes to mind, and then the next two people or those same two people say the word that they think melds those two words together until you say the same word.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Jess Wolfe]

And that's how. That's what we do right before every show.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that. Like an improv team.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, like an improv team.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Ready?

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay. Are we doing drawings? Oh, my God. Holly's gonna win. She's really good at this.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no, because it's not supposed to be good. I, in fact, I'm glad you brought this up.

[Holly Laessig]

Are we supposed to not look?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, no, no, you look. You try in earnest. That's what makes it extra funny, is that you were trying. I always do really well at this because I'm a bit of a cardanist, but no one ever picks me because it's not. That's not the point of the game.

[Jess Wolfe]

Right? Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Ready?

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Ready?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Feel the aliveness of waiting for me to say it. Penguin. Oh, my God. Two, three, four.

[Holly Laessig]

Stop.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, that's. I mean, this is excellent. Yeah, that's very funny. This is. Show the people.

[Jess Wolfe]

Why is he so sad?

[Pete Holmes]

Holly, that's not a frown. She was doing the. She was doing the outline.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, yeah, very cute.

[Pete Holmes]

This. This. Wait, could that be a baby chicken? I think that's excellent. I'm going to give it to Jess. It is, but that's the funnier one. But you also have to know the judge. I, I tend to give it to the more accurate. I liked it very, very much.

[Jess Wolfe]

I, I, it is kind of a chick, but it has the.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. The belly is what puts it over the top. That's the one line that helped us and let do mind meld.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

So you both say the words.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

We're. We'll start.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, wait. Hold up, hold up your microphones.

[Jess Wolfe]

Micro.

[Holly Laessig]

My.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay. I think I just said okay. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that we're doing this instead of the meaning of life, by the way.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, no, I, this is the meaning of life.

[Pete Holmes]

This is the meaning of life. Playful connection.

[Jess Wolfe]

Wait, so should we do 3, 2, 1? Yeah. Okay.

[Holly Laessig]

3, 2, 1.

[Jess Wolfe]

Mineral. So then cereal.

[Pete Holmes]

General Mills.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, no. So, and it has to be one word.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Cereal.

[Pete Holmes]

Cereal and mineral.

[Holly Laessig]

Mineral.

[Pete Holmes]

Vitamins.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, no. On the count of.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I do it with her.

[Jess Wolfe]

You're really this happy?

[Pete Holmes]

I thought I just. I did it.

[Jess Wolfe]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, then you guys start over. Start over. Start over.

[Jess Wolfe]

And you can't repeat a word either.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, I see.

[Jess Wolfe]

That was going to be a good one.

[Pete Holmes]

That was because. Vitamins and minerals and cereals. We got it. It would have been. It would have come right back.

[Holly Laessig]

All right.

[Pete Holmes]

Niacin.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay. Three, two, one. Curiosity. Okay, then you two. Hair on the count.

[Pete Holmes]

Curiosity and pair.

[Jess Wolfe]

Curiosity and pair.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Three, two, one. New shape.

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know why.

[Jess Wolfe]

Shape.

[Pete Holmes]

N. Newton.

[Jess Wolfe]

Newton. Okay, three, two, one. Big fig and cookie.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, oh, wait.

[Jess Wolfe]

You can't repeat a word.

[Holly Laessig]

Damn it.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay, okay. Three, two, one.

[Holly Laessig]

Jar. Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

Jam and bar.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

Jammin box.

[Holly Laessig]

Jammin bot.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. Sandwich.

[Jess Wolfe]

Pop tart and sandwich.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. Gently. Damn it. You do it with a look in your face that's like, why aren't you saying mine? There's a judgment to your face.

[Jess Wolfe]

I want. I want them to be the same. What were.

[Pete Holmes]

What was it?

[Jess Wolfe]

Jelly and snack.

[Pete Holmes]

Jelly and snack.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. I think you got it. See, I'm playing now how you play. There is a. I don't think you're.

[Jess Wolfe]

Going to say what I'm saying, but. 3, 2, 1, gushers.

[Pete Holmes]

O. Wow. I was going to say grape.

[Holly Laessig]

Gummies and gushers.

[Pete Holmes]

Gummies and gushers.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay, wait.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, this is good. You got this.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, my God.

[Jess Wolfe]

I'm trying to think of the Gummies and gushers.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. You did two words. Fruit snacks and candy.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Three.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, God. Two. Wait, wait, I'm not ready. Fruit snacks and what?

[Pete Holmes]

Candy.

[Jess Wolfe]

This is when we. We speed up this portion of the.

[Holly Laessig]

Are we gonna edit this out in all the meaningful Julia Child empty space?

[Pete Holmes]

No. No.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay, but we gotta keep moving. Yeah. Okay. Candy and fruit snacks. No. Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

Candy and fruit snacks.

[Pete Holmes]

Candy and fruit. Sn. 3, 2, 1.

[Jess Wolfe]

Sweet. Okay, sweet.

[Holly Laessig]

Organic.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't know.

[Holly Laessig]

3, 2, 1.

[Jess Wolfe]

Honey.

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know, Honey. Strawberry.

[Pete Holmes]

Honey. Strawberry.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one, poo.

[Jess Wolfe]

Cake.

[Pete Holmes]

Pooh.

[Jess Wolfe]

Poo.

[Pete Holmes]

Winnie the Poo.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, Winnie the Pooh. Okay. Cake and pooh. Huh? Three.

[Pete Holmes]

Cake and poo.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Three.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. Marmalade.

[Jess Wolfe]

Scent and marmalade.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah, I did Scent and marmalade.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Scent and marmalade on chocolate for a cake.

[Pete Holmes]

Three.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, that was. Wait, wait, wah. What was the words?

[Holly Laessig]

Marmalade.

[Jess Wolfe]

Three, two, one. Citrus.

[Pete Holmes]

I was going to say orange. And it was supposed to be us. Damn. Was supposed to be us. And I was gonna say orange.

[Jess Wolfe]

Well, now you gotta do citrus and orange. Citrus and orange.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one, lemon. Three, two, one, martini. Did you say wine? Rind?

[Holly Laessig]

Zest would have been the right zest.

[Pete Holmes]

We're not allowed to talk about martini and rind.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one, twist.

[Jess Wolfe]

What did you say? Twist.

[Pete Holmes]

Twist. Twist was the right answer.

[Jess Wolfe]

Dirty.

[Pete Holmes]

That's olive.

[Jess Wolfe]

She's been doing it dirty with a twist.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't do dirty with a twist.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes, you can. And it is good. I promise. Extra dirty with a twist.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. Yeah, you can add lemon to most things.

[Jess Wolfe]

It is so good.

[Pete Holmes]

I just go, okay. No, you guys have to finish lemon and twist. Wait. Lemon and twist. No.

[Jess Wolfe]

Lemon and twist. Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it was dirty. Dirty and twist.

[Holly Laessig]

Dirty twist.

[Pete Holmes]

Dirty twist. Three, two, one. Elvis.

[Jess Wolfe]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Pete Holmes]

Elvis did the dirty twist. I'm mad. I'm not playing this properly. I'm mad.

[Jess Wolfe]

You're doing great. We just all suck.

[Pete Holmes]

Dancing Elvis.

[Jess Wolfe]

Dancing Elvis.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Dancing Elvis.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Is it us?

[Jess Wolfe]

I guess.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one.

[Jess Wolfe]

Suede.

[Holly Laessig]

Say hips.

[Jess Wolfe]

Suede and hips. Damn it.

[Pete Holmes]

Suede and hips.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You got this one.

[Jess Wolfe]

I do? Yeah. Three.

[Pete Holmes]

Hips.

[Jess Wolfe]

Suede. Hips. Three, two, one. Stripper pants.

[Pete Holmes]

Was the correct answer. What did Katie have?

[Jess Wolfe]

Stripper.

[Holly Laessig]

Stripper and cow.

[Pete Holmes]

Stripper. Cow. Three, two, one.

[Holly Laessig]

Leather.

[Jess Wolfe]

Leather was good.

[Pete Holmes]

Leather was good.

[Jess Wolfe]

Leather and beef.

[Pete Holmes]

Leather and beef.

[Jess Wolfe]

Three.

[Pete Holmes]

Leather and beef. Leather and beef. Leather and beef. Three, two, one. Cow.

[Jess Wolfe]

No, cow has already said it's jerky.

[Pete Holmes]

Leather and beef. Yeah, I see it now.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

Jerky.

[Pete Holmes]

Jerky and cow.

[Holly Laessig]

Jerky.

[Pete Holmes]

Cow. Is it you two?

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. All right.

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Jerky.

[Jess Wolfe]

One word.

[Pete Holmes]

Cow. Three.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's not gonna be the same. Three, two, one. Peppercorn.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay. Carnivore and peppercorn.

[Pete Holmes]

Carnivore. Peppercorn. Another good album. Carnivore. Peppercorn.

[Jess Wolfe]

Why did I say peppercorn?

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. Salt.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't know. Salt and cooking.

[Pete Holmes]

Salt and cooking.

[Jess Wolfe]

This is like.

[Pete Holmes]

We know this. It's from the episode.

[Holly Laessig]

Three.

[Jess Wolfe]

Wait, I'm not ready. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Salt. Cooking.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, three, two, one. Julia.

[Jess Wolfe]

I thought you were like, salt. Acid heat. Ok. What'd you say?

[Pete Holmes]

Acid. Acid and Julia.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay. Three, two, one. Lemon. Oh, we already said lemon. This has really got. I have to say, this is the worst we've ever done. This is the worst it's ever been.

[Pete Holmes]

It's me. I've ruined it. I'm the X Factor. Okay, but Trip and Lemon.

[Holly Laessig]

Trip and lemon.

[Jess Wolfe]

Holly's crying.

[Pete Holmes]

Trip. Lemon. Wait.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Holly Laessig]

Tripping.

[Pete Holmes]

Trip and lemon.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Trip and lemon.

[Jess Wolfe]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Trip.

[Holly Laessig]

I don't know why.

[Pete Holmes]

And lemon.

[Holly Laessig]

Makes sense to me.

[Jess Wolfe]

Trip and lemon.

[Holly Laessig]

Trip and lemon.

[Pete Holmes]

Trip and lemon. Three, two, one. Psychedelics. Oh, that was good. You guys are synced up.

[Jess Wolfe]

Italy and psychedelics.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I feel like there's one here.

[Jess Wolfe]

There is Italy.

[Pete Holmes]

Psychedelics.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah. I don't know that I have. Okay. Okay. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one, Mushrooms.

[Holly Laessig]

Mushroom club.

[Jess Wolfe]

Mushroom club.

[Holly Laessig]

Is that what you said?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Holly Laessig]

This is really okay. I don't know.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay. Mushroom club. So sad.

[Holly Laessig]

Are you ready?

[Jess Wolfe]

No. I want to make a joke, but That'll ruin it. Okay.

[Holly Laessig]

Three, two, one. Foragers. Foragers and fungi.

[Pete Holmes]

Fungi and foragers.

[Jess Wolfe]

I was thinking, like, fun guy.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay. Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Forage. Fungi.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Three, two, one. Portobello. Oh, my God.

[Jess Wolfe]

I know.

[Holly Laessig]

This is really sad.

[Pete Holmes]

Portobello. Woods.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Holly Laessig]

We're gonna get there, guys.

[Jess Wolfe]

I was about to get there, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Portobello and wood.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah. Three, two, one.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't even know what a chanterelle is. That's a type of mushroom. Shiitake, chaga. Chanterelle.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah, those are forage. Well, I guess they're all forageable.

[Pete Holmes]

Forageable. We did well. We did all right.

[Jess Wolfe]

Usually it's like.

[Holly Laessig]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, wait, wait. You two do one real fast. Just you two.

[Jess Wolfe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I think it's me.

[Jess Wolfe]

We might this up. Okay. If it doesn't go well, we'll just delete it.

[Holly Laessig]

Yeah. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

We're keeping it.

[Holly Laessig]

Two, one. Peace. And Tic tac.

[Jess Wolfe]

Tic tac. In peace. Okay. Three.

[Pete Holmes]

I know how you feel.

[Jess Wolfe]

Tic tac and peace. Peace. Attacking peace. I don't know. Three, two, one. White.

[Pete Holmes]

White. Relief.

[Holly Laessig]

Jesus.

[Jess Wolfe]

Jesus. Let's keep this happy.

[Holly Laessig]

Oh, God. Okay. Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

White. And. And relief. Yeah. Three, two, one. Space. This is the meaning of life. Space and toilet paper.

[Pete Holmes]

Space and toilet paper.

[Holly Laessig]

Okay.

[Jess Wolfe]

Toilet paper. Relief and white. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Toilet paper and space. Three, two, one. Bathroom.

[Holly Laessig]

That's close.

[Pete Holmes]

What did you say? Bathroom? Yeah. I thought you're gonna say Uranus.

[Jess Wolfe]

Uranus.

[Pete Holmes]

You did it.

[Jess Wolfe]

That would have been really.

[Pete Holmes]

You did.

[Jess Wolfe]

Much more clever.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, thank you for. I'm going to play that with Val. I think Val and I will be really good at it.

[Jess Wolfe]

You will? Normally we have gotten it on like, number two.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Uranus. Well, thank you. The last final question. Is there a moment where you two can remember laughing really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hard? Doesn't have to be a good story. It can be separate. Maybe you're a kid. Maybe somebody fell over the time in your life where you laughed harder than you've ever laughed ever. Or one of them.

[Holly Laessig]

I remember one time being with one of my good childhood friends and I cannot remember why we were laughing. We were rollerblading to the ice cream shop. And I can't remember why we were laughing, but we were laughing so hard. And we got to the ice cream shop and it was one of those things where I was just laughing so hard that I, like, so slowly collapsed onto the ground and then peed my pants, like, in the middle of the parking lot. And so my friend, immediately, Joy, ran to the ice cream shop and asked for a big cup of water, came over and poured it on me, like, loudly poured it all over my lap to save you. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

She Billy Madisoned you.

[Holly Laessig]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Peeing your pants is the coolest. That is one of the best ones I've ever heard.

[Jess Wolfe]

It's really good.

[Pete Holmes]

That's perfect. Perfect ending. Would you ladies say we'll plug everything up top. The new album is not out yet.

[Jess Wolfe]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, Lucius is out.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought you were alluding to another.

[Jess Wolfe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. But there is a 2025 album that we will plug.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And tour dates and all that. And thank you so much. And the way we end is the guest says, keep it crispy. Would you grace us.

[Jess Wolfe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

With a Lucius. Keep it crispy.

[Jess Wolfe]

Do we look in the camera?

[Holly Laessig]

What do we say?

[Pete Holmes]

You can do it however you want. You guys are used to doing.

[Jess Wolfe]

We say we're Lucious or just keep it.

[Pete Holmes]

You can do it like that. We're the band Lucius.

[Jess Wolfe]

We're the band Lucius that you've never heard.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, this one.

[Holly Laessig]

This one you've never heard of. Yeah.

[Jess Wolfe]

Keep it crispy. Okay. We're the band you've never heard of. Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you so much.

[Jess Wolfe]

Thank you. Every caregiving journey is unique. But the isolation, guilt, and exhaustion we all feel, that's universal.

[Holly Laessig]

It's reality. It's life. You know, I wish it could all.

[Jess Wolfe]

Be happy and joyous, but sometimes it's full of rage. And that is what it is. That's why this show exists, to be a safe place for caregivers to land. Listen to Squeezed. Wherever you get your podcasts.