Michael Kosta

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — Guest: Michael Kosta

Episode Date: May 7, 2025
Main Theme:
Pete Holmes welcomes comedian and Daily Show correspondent Michael Kosta for a funny, warm, and self-aware conversation that explores the "secret weirdness" everyone carries, with deep dives into comedy, tennis, childhood and family dynamics, emotional self-understanding, sports as a metaphor for life, and the beauty of sportsmanship, all punctuated by vulnerability, memorable stories, and plenty of laughs.

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Breakdown of Key Discussion Points

1. Opening: Tension, Openness, and Repair

• 00:25 – 03:00
  The show starts on a slightly awkward note: Michael is late, and Pete feels anxious because of a tight schedule.
  • Pete gently but honestly calls out Kosta for being more than “a few minutes” late.
    • Quote: “That's not a few minutes. I'm going to call bullshit on a few minutes.” – Pete (04:33)
  • Both work through the tension in real time, exemplifying the theme of repair, not perfection.
    • Quote: “It’s not that you don’t make mistakes and are grumpy. It’s all in the repair.” – Pete (00:15, intro)
  • They quickly move to mutual understanding, vulnerability, apologies, and friendship.
    • Quote: “Thank you for taking the time... it’s not a big deal that you were late. I’m a little tight because I have this thing.” – Pete (07:15)
• Parenting Parallel: Pete connects repairing after conflict in the podcast to parenting and emotional health.

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2. Performance Anxiety & Boundaries in Comedy

• 07:16 – 09:00
  Michael and Pete bond over the less-glamorous side of stand-up: performance anxiety, setting boundaries, and the struggle to relax before a show.
  • Kosta: “It’s taken me 22 years in comedy to realize that... I think it’s called performance anxiety.” (07:34)
  • Pete admits he envies comics who seem relaxed before sets, but he just can’t be one of them.

Notable Moment:

• Seinfeld’s advice to Shandling: “The day you [are comfortable at a party], you’ll stop being funny.” (08:13)

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3. Comedy Legends: Stories of Gary Shandling & Magic

• 09:00 – 13:00
  Michael shares a cherished story about Gary Shandling’s one-on-one humor (the “steak knife bit”) that illustrates comedy for its own sake.
  • Quote: “He did a bit for one person. And I tell it to everybody for 15 years.” – Michael (09:10)
• Pete tells a magic anecdote about Ricky Jay’s legendary “block of ice” trick over lunch, tying into the theme of doing brilliant things without seeking immediate recognition.
• The pair riff on tennis, art, and doing things “for the future” (as in churches decorated in ways no one could appreciate in the builders’ era).
  • Steffi Graf, Andre Agassi, and decorating for “future recognition.”

Notable Quote:

“Andre Agassi... looked down on top of these churches... perfectly decorated the top... the future would recognize this excellence.” – Michael (13:01)

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4. UFOs, Storytelling, And Truth in Comedy

• 13:35 – 18:00
  Pete and Michael discuss UFOs, skepticism, and why most “contactees” aren’t convincing.
  • Kosta: “I find the people who have been contacted by UFOs... are not good at convincing me.” (17:01)
  • Pete riffs on how vital storytelling is for both comedians and anyone making extraordinary claims.
  • Quote: “Everybody should... take a one day course in how to tell a story.” – Pete (17:54)
• They bond over comedy’s requirement for authenticity and “reading the room”—the way truly great comics are hypersensitive to the audience's vibe.
  • Pete: “The crowd makes a gelatinous frequency when they don’t believe you.” (20:39)

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5. “Lucky Loser,” Family, and The Need for Parental Understanding

• 23:23 – 26:32
  Pete reflects on writing his memoir ("Comedy Sex God") as an attempt to get his parents to understand him, and Michael chimes in about driving needs for parental attention.
  • Quote: “I wrote my book almost exclusively to get my parents to understand me.” – Pete (23:41)
• The nuanced dynamics of attention, childhood, and how they shape one’s need, even as an adult—and then, as parents, wondering what effect their style will have on their own kids.

Notable “Gaze of the Father” Discussion

• Pete describes “a spacious sort of... allowance of you,” the quiet, loving gaze a parent can give (26:11).
• Michael shares his friend’s parenting wisdom: sometimes you just need to create space for your child to talk, instead of peppering them with questions.

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6. Sports, Mortality, Sportsmanship & Transcendence

• 30:00 – 44:00 A large and profound section—sports’ emotional meaning, “the handshake,” transcending the game, and parallels to life and death.
• Tennis and the beauty of shaking hands after battle.
  • Kosta: "You’re doing everything you can to defeat them... and then you approach, look each other in the eye and shake hands." (35:25)
• The emotional power of sportsmanship—how it “transcends animal behavior.”
  • Quote: “There are no two animals... that will fight like boxers and then... stop.” – Pete (44:26)
• Sports as childlike, invented (drawing lines, creating play), and how shared experience creates rare kinship (tennis, late-night hosts, comedians).
• Consciousness Metaphor: Pete: “What we all are is awareness, is consciousness... But it’s playing this game, it’s like sports.” (39:56)
• The necessity of death as the clock of the “game,” and how gratitude for the transient nature of life underpins meaning and connection.
  • Kosta: “In life, the game clock, when it's zero, is death. And how important is death, man?” (41:24)

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7. Setbacks, Memory, and Meaning-Making

• 50:00 – 55:00
  The hosts swap stories about travel fiascos and family potholes: missed baby passports, rerouted trips, and how frustration turns to cherished memory.
  • Pete: “The artistry is you getting mad... If I was playing peekaboo with myself and got so lost in the dream...” (52:33)
  • Michael: “Our memory remembers when emotions were present... That’s why it’s hurtful when someone forgets your birthday, because they’re not having an emotional response to you.” (54:49, 55:04)

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8. Reflection on Hosting, Forgiveness, and Creating Content

• 55:31 – 57:41
  They revisit the episode’s rocky start and model forgiveness and understanding.
  Michael shares his gratitude for comedians finding their own ways to thrive, and Pete agrees.
• Kosta: “I love when a comedian has figured out a way to provide for themselves through the content they make.” (57:08)

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9. Comedy, Laughter, and Family Stories

• 58:15 – 61:59
  In closing, Pete asks Michael for a time he laughed uncontrollably: Kosta’s cruise safety joke story (his brother tying his life vest to a pole) and family dynamics.
  • Michael: “That was a very funny bit. And... it’s also how my family said I love you.” (60:41)
  • Christy (his sister), hospice care, and the art of release:
    • “She says, I love it because it's the only part of medicine where I don't have to fix it...The art is letting it go.” (61:16 – 61:22)

Pete’s Signature Goodbye

• “Keep it crispy!” – (Episode close, 62:11)

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “That's not a few minutes. I'm going to call bullshit on a few minutes.”
  Pete Holmes, 04:33

• “It’s not that you don’t make mistakes and are grumpy. It’s all in the repair.”
  Pete Holmes, 00:15 (intro)

• "He did a bit for one person. And I tell it to everybody for 15 years."
  Michael Kosta, 09:10

• "The day you are [comfortable at a party], you'll stop being funny."
  Seinfeld (quoted by Pete), 08:13

• “Everybody should... take a one day course in how to tell a story.”
  Pete Holmes, 17:54

• "I wrote my book almost exclusively to get my parents to understand me."
  Pete Holmes, 23:41

• "You’re doing everything you can to defeat them... and then you approach, look each other in the eye and shake hands."
  Michael Kosta, 35:25

• “There are no two animals... that will fight like boxers and then... stop.”
  Pete Holmes, 44:26

• "I love when a comedian has figured out a way to provide for themselves through the content they make."
  Michael Kosta, 57:08

• "Our memory remembers when emotions were present... That’s why it’s hurtful when someone forgets your birthday, because they’re not having an emotional response to you."
  Michael Kosta, 54:49 / Pete Holmes, 55:04

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Episode Flow, Structure, and Tone

• Tone:
  Warm, fast-paced, candid, vulnerable, philosophical, and frequently hilarious. Both men are open about their wounds and needs, but quick to joke and tease.

• Structure:
  Flows naturally from awkward beginning → open sharing → friendly banter → deeper themes of creativity, parenting, mortality, and meaning → closure with gratitude, laughter, and forgiveness.

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Who Should Listen?

• Comedy fans wanting behind-the-scenes realness
• Anyone interested in the psychology of performance, family, or sports as life metaphors
• Listeners who value self-reflection and vulnerability mixed with sharp wit

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Final Note

Keep it crispy! (62:11)
A classic, slightly bewildering but loving send-off from Pete Holmes, and a perfect encapsulation of the generous, “weird,” and laughter-filled energy of the show.

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos? This is the incredible Michael Costa, who is a Emmy award winning chorus senior correspondent for the Daily show and, and the author of the new book Lucky Loser, which is about his life in comedy and tennis. Tennis. It's a thing. It's a wonderful book. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I actually got the audiobook. He reads it masterfully and he wrote it beautifully. So check out Lucky Loser. It's really, really wonderful. And so is this conversation. I'm gonna say you'll hear it because we're not editing it out. We only had an hour and then he was running a little bit late. And then for some reason we get into it, I was like anxious about this thing I had afterwards. So I kind of like called him out for being late. And it's a little bit. Well, it's a little bit weird. But then like 10 minutes later, we're the best of friends and we're talking about it. And like we say in parenting, it's not that you don't make mistakes and are grumpy. It's all in the repair. So we talked about it. We love each other. We are wonderful. But you'll hear a little, a little bit of persnickety Pete at the beginning of this episode. And I'm happy to say that we did the repair very well. So we're leaving it all in. Even though I think in the episode we talk about taking it out. So check out Lucky Loser. Check out Michael Kosta on all his social platforms. And please go to peteholmes.com as I'm going to keep mentioning, this is no longer the PG13 tour. This is now called the Pete Here now tour. Because I did one show in Austin that was going to be the beginning of the PG13 Tour. I got off stage and I was like, am not. I'm not PG13. This hour is not PG13. It is normal dirty. As I like to say. It's not filthy, but it's normal dirty. So we're just calling it the Pete Here now tour. And the upcoming shows are all on my website. Toronto is coming up, Los Angeles on May 24th. Then we have Nashville, Irvine, San Jose, Houston, Royal Oak, Michigan, Washington, D.C. boston, Spokane, Washington, St. Louis, Cleveland, Homestead, Pennsylvania, Atlantic City, New Jersey. And it hasn't been announced yet, so it's not available yet. But right around that New Jersey date, I'm pretty sure we're going to be in New York, which I'm very excited. So when that is official, all of those will be on peteholmes.com this episode is brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. When I Fly. I'm currently in Utah shooting a movie. And guess what? I have the whole crew drinking Magic Mind. Why? Because we're trying to make something. We're trying to create something. We're trying to create something special and magical. Trying to keep our energy levels up, trying to. Trying to keep our minds sharp. And Magic Mind is the perfect creator drink. It's like creator aid. Coffee. Sure, I like a little coffee, but it can get you jittery, it can get you wired, it can mess with your sleep. Magic Mind is matcha. So it's got about as much caffeine as half a cup of coffee. It's also got nootropics earth grown, which help you focus, concentrate, think, use your brain. And it's got adaptogens like lion's mane, which help you calm down and stay restricted regulated. So you got up with the caffeine, you got down with the adaptogens. Putting you right where you want to be in the middle for that flow state lasts about 3, 4 hours. In fact, I did a show while I was here in Utah. I'll drink one, six, seven o' clock at night, still go to bed. Absolutely no problem. It is not jittery. It is dialed in. It is absolutely in flow state. It's flow state in a bottle. It tastes fantastic. I absolutely love it. You got to give it a try. Go to MagicMind Co weird and use our discount code at checkout. Weird for a limited 20 off your first order. That's MagicMind Co weird. Use discount code weird at checkout. It is absolutely wonderful. Fights off add, Fights off. Procrastination, brain fog, fatigue. You got to get it in your life. Magicmind Co Weird. So glad you're here. I love this conversation. I am a huge Michael Costa fan and I hope you enjoy him as much as I did. Get into it. This is it.

[A]

You did it.

[B]

You did it. Welcome, welcome.

[A]

Thanks and sorry. Sorry about the.

[B]

It's okay. I almost sent you a sn. Few minutes. 20 minutes, my man.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

That's. That's not a few minutes. I'm going to call bullshit on a few minutes.

[A]

Yeah. What is it? It's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Yes. It's late. I'm sorry.

[B]

We are cutting that out. Yes, you are my guest and I'm glad you're here.

[A]

Start with that. You Very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. No, it's all good. But thank. But yes, I'm happy to be here.

[B]

And well, it's also because we only have until 1:10, so this is. Will now be the shortest episode of you.

[A]

We can. I can go longer, but I'm not sure if you can.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

Okay. Told 110.

[B]

You look pretty. Here's two things. Your team. Yeah, I'm going to say this. Up top. Talent seems to never know how. And your team is fine. We got a very firm 110. We push back on that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Nope. 110.

[A]

Okay. All right, all right.

[B]

And we also said don't call him Mike.

[A]

Oh, wow. Pretty. That I'm actually happy with. I can go longer if you want to go longer.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[B]

Unfortunately.

[A]

Copy that. Copy that.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Yes. Okay. Got it. I hate it.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. All good.

[B]

But.

[A]

But you know how when you. Yeah, tell me when you go to comedy clubs how sometimes they hate you immediately because they've been dealing with your team, but you don't even know. You don't even know what's going on.

[B]

So nobody's mad at you whatsoever. I do. I was telling Katie after this, the reason I can't go longer is because I'm reading for like, the producer's read. Yes.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And I just told this to Katie, but I'm putting it to you. If I'm. If I have something hanging over my head, I'll just be a little persnickety the whole day. Like a little tight. And I swear to God, I'm 46. You're 45. Correct. I just. I'm telling you, I just figured this out. That, like, I had another audition. I swear we're gonna get to you. I had another audition. No, no, I had another audition and I did it at 7 o' clock PM over zoom.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I had a show at 8 o'. Clock. My show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The first of a weekend. Big show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I said yes.

[A]

That sounds terrible to me.

[B]

That was one. I'm like, you just feel like a stranger to yourself. Like, that's the ABCs of a performer. You're about to do a show.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it was like a new hour. And I was nervous about it. I'm like, sure, I can be in my dumb hotel room setting up lights and putting on my stupid favorite shirt. Of course it went like shit. And I just figured this out. So I want you to know, two apologies. One, you're so welcome. And I'm so happy to meet you and sit down with you. Thank you for taking the time. And two, it's not a big deal at all that you were late. I'm a little tight because I have this thing.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

That's all my cards.

[A]

I got a text yesterday. I had a show at the Hollywood Improv, and it was like, pretty. Can you meet before? Can you meet before? Can you meet with the four? And finally, I've gotten good at creating boundaries, but it's still hard for me to enforce.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Enforcement is hard.

[B]

Anyone can take the reservation.

[A]

Right. I had to then say, I don't want to see anybody before the show, because I don't. I want to be in my space. But it's taken me 22 years in comedy to realize that. I think it's called performance anxiety.

[B]

Of course it is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're in Fight Flight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as much as I like to think that I'm Fonzie, I'm Potsy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I'm cool. I'm like, I've seen other performers have a show and hold court. I'm like you. I am not like that whatsoever.

[A]

It's because you feel that way. And because I feel that way is also why we're good at it.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

So there's that.

[B]

Well, that's the greatest. I say this probably every fifth episode. Seinfeld said to Shandling, they're at a party. Shandling says, when will I be comfortable at a party? And Seinfeld says, the day you are, you'll stop being funny.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So I wouldn't trade it for the world. It is hard for us.

[A]

Can I share with you a very funny Gary Shanling moment I had?

[B]

Yes, you may.

[A]

I was at Hermosa Beach Comedy. I tell this to everybody who will listen to me, and I know you'll appreciate it. I know you appreciate it.

[B]

I'm here for it.

[A]

So I loved him, loved his shows, and just grew up watching him. And I finally got to meet at Hermosa Beach Comedy Magic Club. And he's sitting next to me. We're having dinner with all the big group there, and Mike Lacy comes in, who owns the Hermosa beach, and says, gary, can I speak to you privately? And as Gary stands up to walk with Mike, he takes a steak knife and he hides it in his hand and walks out of the room as if he's gonna go stab Mike Lacey, like, and no one else saw. And I just think it is such he did a bit for One person. And I tell it to everybody for 15 years. But what a great bit. And I've been wanting to copy it. I've been wanting to copy it, but I've never had the opportunity. But if someone says, can I speak to you privately? And then you take a knife to that meeting, is. Is great. And Katie is dying over there at that story.

[B]

She's loving it.

[A]

She's loving it. It's great story.

[B]

I'm going to tell you this. There's a lot of people in different makes and models of cars that are dying at that story. Yeah, the sliding it. Did he slide it up his sleeve?

[A]

Yeah, he did. Like the. What you do with. If you're. If you're a silent assassin. And so often we meet people's comedy that we love and they don't deliver on attitude or personality as they are in life. As they are in life. And that's an ex. Example where he elevated.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I liked it even more.

[B]

I'm trying to remember Ricky J. Yeah. Ricky J. Is that his name? He's a magician. Ricky Jason, Paul Thomas Anderson movies. I think it's Ricky J. I'm 99.9. Ricky J. We got it. Ricky J. They were doing this documentary about him, and there's this magic trick. You're gonna see why I brought this up. There's this magic trick that imagine if you. I'm, you know, I'm a magician. But we have lunch, right? And we're eating lunch. And Ricky J. Did this trick. He's meeting with an interviewer. And in the middle of the lunch, he lifts up his menu and there's a block of ice like the size of a microwave on the table. And he gets up and leaves. And she said she wept, right? Because what. Yeah, I kind of trimmed the story. The story was. The interviewer knew that that trick was Ricky's favorite trick. So he seeded the idea that, let's say it was Houdini. Who knows who it was. But there was a classic magician that his signature TR trick was you'd be having lunch and out of nowhere.

[A]

That is amazing.

[B]

He'd produce a huge block of ice. And she said. She goes. And it was in the sun, but it wasn't yet melting. How was he keeping it cold? How was he keeping it cold, Michael? I don't know.

[A]

But also. And comedians do not do this. Although my example of Gary Shailing is the opposite. I just said to do the thing, to do the trick and then walk away.

[B]

I knew what you were gonna do.

[A]

You know, we have to. I have to wallow in it. Yeah. I did a thing that's special, and now I'm going to take it in. I. It is selfless. It is selfless to do such a straight. Yeah.

[B]

I would stick around and go, how is it not melting 100%? I'd go, where was it? How did I have that ice? Right where. I think they had already had the salad course, too. So it was like, that's.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

But then you look under the table. It's just a freezer. Just something rare.

[A]

Just like.

[B]

Just a big igloo cooler or.

[A]

That was a great trick. But we heard this freezer humming behind us.

[B]

Ruined.

[A]

Let me. Let me reference sports for a second.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Steffi Graff is one of the greatest female tennis players of all time.

[B]

Steffi Graff.

[A]

Steffi Graft. German. German tennis player.

[B]

You got a Steffi graph, didn't you?

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

Your left arm. You got some Steffi Graft onto you. Please, please walk away from this bed.

[A]

Please, Michael, I beg you, do not respond to this.

[B]

This is my ice block, by the way.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I walk away. You got a Stevie graph, didn't you?

[A]

Steffi Graff is married to Andre Agassi. You maybe know that name.

[B]

I know I had those shoes.

[A]

Yes. Unbelievable.

[B]

Great shoes.

[A]

So Steffi Graff was being introduced to the Internet. This is going to connect what we're saying. She was being introduced to the International Tennis hall of Fame, and her husband, Andre Agassi, also a former world number one, was introducing her. His wife.

[B]

Yeah. With a dangling earring, probably. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. And he tells the story of playing in Rome one year and in this high hotel and looking down on top of these churches and the. They perfectly decorated the top of these churches, even though at their time there was no high rises. High enough to even see on top.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But knowing that the future. That the future would recognize this excellence. And when you told me the story of the block of ice and the restraint it takes to walk away from that, I thought of Andre Agassi introducing his wife to the International Tennis hall of Fame.

[B]

Because of the building.

[A]

Because of the buildings.

[B]

Correct. I completely understand.

[A]

Isn't that cool, though?

[B]

I don't have that kind of. No foresight.

[A]

No. Imagine to spend so much time and energy knowing this isn't even for us, or maybe even for my kids, but for just future generations to maybe. Or maybe the gods.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's the other thing.

[B]

Well, like those. I believe it was Peruvian. The guy that doesn't know who it is.

[A]

Peru maybe.

[B]

But you know, they made those giant like. Like a owl or a hawk or something. And now we see them. Yeah, but they never saw them.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

They were for UFOs, Michael.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you're in the news media. What do you make of all that?

[A]

Of the Peruvian?

[B]

No, no. Of all the. You UAPs. Is that what it is? Do you have a take on UFOs?

[A]

Man, I don't. I don't get sucked in. I have had numerous people in my life who have felt that they have been contacted by. Contacted by and communicated with.

[B]

Communicate. Not just a flyby, right?

[A]

No, like conversations. Numerous people.

[B]

Through what the fucking clear Lego triangle that the girl from out of this world. One of your dad with.

[A]

I think one of them was a cell phone. I. I don't know exactly.

[B]

Wait, they're calling.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That was one of the things I heard was that they.

[B]

Who's this?

[A]

Well, I don't know. That's what I'm saying.

[B]

No, who told you this?

[A]

I don't want to start revealing who it was.

[B]

Christy, the non athletic sister, isn't it? Christy who? What's your sister's name?

[A]

Christy. How do you. Oh my God, you know my sister. Oh, you. Thank you for reading.

[B]

Deal with that. That's very, very good. Very good.

[A]

Oh, that's nice that you did that.

[B]

Very good. Isn't it good pace you.

[A]

Thank you. You have written a book as well. And isn't it wild how many press things you did where they clearly did not even open it. Of course it's wild.

[B]

I hosted. I mean you tell me what it's like at the Daily show, but they'll give you a copy of the book highlighted with like post itself. I thought that was the. That was the coolest I ever felt was when someone would read a book for you and be like, just read the highlights.

[A]

Or like they eat the meal and then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They throw it up into your mouth.

[B]

They throw it up like. Well, my mom was a pelican.

[A]

And that makes sense still. Yes, you do.

[B]

A lot of where people ask a question. Here's actually what I think. What is a lucky loser? It's like Jiminy Glick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or they go or, or have you ever. Look, everyone that listens to this podcast knows what I'm going to say right now. But I'm going to say it to you for your response. You ever do radio and you can tell by the order in which they're asking you questions that they're reading your Wikipedia page.

[A]

Oh my God, the Wikipedia page.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

Because mine. Correct. And mine said I was Greek forever, which I'm not.

[B]

He's not Greek, folks.

[A]

So then they would come in with all these loaded Greek questions and I would go, I'm sorry, I think we're referencing my Wikipedia page.

[B]

Do you think if we took a six week retreat, just you and me, we could write a movie that has the line, yeah, my big fat Greek dick, it has that line. And it's a huge line.

[A]

Yeah. Like. Like maybe right.

[B]

People like, but we, we built the movie just for that line. Do you think it's possible?

[A]

I bet we could do it in less than six weeks.

[B]

I think we could do it. Well, we're going to do this in Hawaii, so we take days.

[A]

Got it. Okay.

[B]

Nail it.

[A]

Yeah, we saw.

[B]

Play a little grab ass. Turn the script in.

[A]

I want to respond to your ufo.

[B]

Yeah, I. Oh yeah. You didn't want to say who it was.

[A]

Yeah, I don't want to say who it was, but that's how we got down there. But I find the people who have been contacted by UFOs or whatever we're calling them are not good at convincing me.

[B]

I know exactly what you mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's not no worse feeling for two lovers of truth and reality.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You want them to wow you.

[A]

I.

[B]

And it's always, I'm open.

[A]

I'm open. I'm ready.

[B]

A rock of cocaine falls out of their nose or whatever it is.

[A]

There's just something that you go, I. I'm ready. I'm open. I'm not closed minded. I.

[B]

It's a big molder.

[A]

It's. It's. You're. I'm molar. It's a big world out there and. And you're not. You're not getting me.

[B]

I can't tell you how many days of my life I'm. I'm almost emotional. I feel so sane that. Not in a bad way. I just feel great that you brought this up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So much of my life is talking to somebody and going like, I believe maybe that did happen to you. And I hated the way you told it. It's like everybody should be a waiter for two weeks and everybody should take like a one day course in how to tell a story.

[A]

Yeah. Oh my God, the story.

[B]

If you came to me and you had a UFO calling you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The first line.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In fact, as a comic, you'll appreciate this. Something I say on stage all the time is, I'm not lying. And I'm not lying.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I say this really happened.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because we need it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So many robotic, dead faced, motionless comedians. These are my people. I love them. Tell these unbelievable stories and nothing in their body, their face, their inflection, nothing says this really happened. And often it didn't. But sometimes it did. And I'm like, you had the most precious antique and all you had to do was wipe the dust off of it with a little. I know this sounds unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was Mikhail Gorbachev.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know why he was flying coach. Like, anticipate my questions and answer them, Pete. Why would he fly southwest? Sorry.

[A]

One of your strengths as a comedian. I'm serious. I'm serious now as someone who's enjoyed your comedy for many years. And we did a, we did a show together many years at the Irvine Improv.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I mean, I, I remember it was. You were doing your bit about. No, we'll tag, we'll tag ourselves in Facebook. No, we'll. We'll tell you who.

[B]

Was new.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

It was like, they don't need to surveil us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is actually.

[A]

We'll tag our own family. Yeah, it was great.

[B]

Yeah. So that was the big punchline. Let me tag those for you.

[A]

Yeah, it was great. But I, But I would say one of your strengths is of a comedian. And I hope I have the same strength. But not your strength. My strength, but similar is you are very in touch and aware of your audience in the sense where they need to know that I'm not lying right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what I find so frustrating with so many comics is the same thing you're saying. They're not reading the faces or the room or the vibe.

[B]

I'm so with you.

[A]

What is going on?

[B]

I couldn't be more excited about this. I've had a lot of conversations about comedy. I don't think I've had this one.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Because, you know, let's go ahead.

[A]

No, I'll say you have had a lot of conversations about comedy, but not this. Okay, good.

[B]

And I couldn't be more passionate about it. You know, like Google, not the old Google Glass, but like the new ones. The AI glasses that they haven't even released. It doesn't matter. They all have. Or. Or a Waymox they all have. I think it's called Ludar. It's some sort of laser thing.

[A]

I see. That goes like this.

[B]

It shoots a laser and it's 200 yards that it can see Wow. A lot of comics don't have. Is it called Ludar? I'm gonna sound like a Luddite. That's a bad joke. But I'm gonna sound like a dumb. Dumb. It doesn't matter. Some people have car. Like, as comics, they have cruise control, but they don't have the.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

The constant checking of, like.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

I know. You know, the crowd makes a gelatinous frequency when they don't believe you or when you've been too rough with them. And it's a hyper. Vigilant. Hypersensitivity thing.

[A]

Vigilant is a good word.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I also fall into a trap where then yesterday somebody made a noise. I was being hyper vigilant. And then had felt like I had to stop the show and address the noise when I should have. If I didn't have good Ludar, which we still don't know if that's the worst, I just would have ignored that. Like, is what I should have done. Because then I halted the whole deal and talked about the thing, and the woman was like. It was just a small noise. And you're like. You're right. But now I've stopped everything. I.

[B]

Well, Caperland, who is, I think, a genius, she has this as well.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I've watched her, you know, she has ladder, she has letter.

[A]

Okay. We don't even know if it is Ludar. Why were my glasses right there?

[B]

But I liked it. Yeah, but I've seen her. Meaning it's easy to diagnose in others. Like, she should have let that go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then 99 of the time when my wife. Well, she comes with me. Most Largos, I'll come off stage and he'll go, no one knew what you were talking about.

[A]

This is our. This. I know. It's our cross to bear. It is. It is. And usually it almost always has to do with some fear or anxiety. That's here.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, if you got. I wrote that down.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I listen.

[A]

Oh, you wrote stuff down, Pete. That's so professional and nice.

[B]

You think I don't know how to play conversation tennis? You don't know what I'm talking about. The book is called the Wait. Sorry, Lucky loser. I was gonna say the winningest loser.

[A]

Oh, I like that, too.

[B]

That's the second lucky loser. Lucky loser. And am I correct? It's a slight wink to Lucky Louie.

[A]

Correct. Correct. That. That was the.

[B]

Correct. The worst interviewer.

[A]

No, but there is there. Lucky losers. Is a 10. Is a 10. It's a tennis term.

[B]

It's a tennis term. It's for the getting into a tournament.

[A]

Even though you didn't qualify by losing.

[B]

Because someone else dropped out.

[A]

You sports. There's our clip.

[B]

We got our clip.

[A]

We got our clip. We got our clip. Phew. God. I always do these pods and I'm.

[B]

Like, I say there, we got our clip.

[A]

Okay, we got a clip.

[B]

And then sometimes Joe doesn't clip it. And I'm like, that was. I'm just kidding. He always get. What were we saying?

[A]

Lucky loser.

[B]

Lucky loser. But one clickback.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I said, I know. Conversation, tennis. Talking about comics.

[A]

Cape Berlance.

[B]

Cape Berlance. Lutar.

[A]

Letting things cross. Bear.

[B]

Let things go. Hyper vigilance. I wrote it down. Remember? I wrote it down and you said you wrote things down.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

This is what I wrote down. Something that I realized. You mentioned my book and this is actually, this is pretty. A sensitive subject for me. I'm bringing it up. I'm happy to talk about it. I46 now look back and I'm like, I wrote my book almost exclusively to get my parents to understand me.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

My whole life trying to get my parents to understand.

[A]

That's a very poignant.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Statement.

[B]

But then you say in your book, and this made me think we might have this in common. You were like, I got into stand up because you say, I want attention from my parents. I'm going one click more vulnerable, maybe one click more sensitive. Sad. Not saying that.

[A]

Okay, this is you. I'm. I'm with you.

[B]

I'm saying actually to just like to know me. So when I'm being hyper, Kate Berlant. It's because I'm like the A bomb for me is we didn't understand each other. And then my child self will interpret that as I am unsafe. I'm actually in danger. I'm going to die. I'm going to vanish. So like I hear a sound and I'm like, nobody's leaving this show thinking I didn't hear that sound.

[A]

Right.

[B]

When you're like, interesting, slow down. Sometimes the Hulk just needs to eat a sandwich.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like just slow down and eat a sandwich. Tell me what you got.

[A]

Your understanding of yourself is really important to know that. And I think one similar to you. I am still figuring out if I, Michael, need more attention and affection from mom and dad because I do or.

[B]

I grew up in siblings or just other.

[A]

Other people in the whole world.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, I don't know also you know, anyone that does stand up, there is some delusion we have or necessary need for public attention, affection, acceptance. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or did I grow up in a home with three other kids and it was a busy home. And that's just a healthy reaction, a normal reaction to, hey, I want mom and dad to pay more attention to me.

[B]

Right? Right, Right.

[A]

And now am I doting on my own children too much? Because that's what I wanted and what fucked up thing am I doing to them?

[B]

Right. I think.

[A]

What's their book going to be called? Winningest Losers.

[B]

We got it from a podcast. They asked AI to listen to every podcast you were ever on. Say, like, give me. And they were like, well. And they're like, I don't need to know why, just tell me the title.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And winning those losers. And then they go, please write the book for me. And then it's out. I had something in my.

[A]

There's a lot to unpack. What I just said.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, my daughter sometimes goes, not in a bad way, but she. I'll be looking at her like lovingly, which is exactly what I've always wanted. Is just like a quiet beholding, they call it. There's actually terms in therapy for it. It's like the gaze of the father. G A, Z, E, obviously.

[A]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[B]

Like, just like a. A spacious sort of like. Like imagine if you're about to play tennis and your dad. It sounds like your dad did do stuff like this, but if he was just like.

[A]

But gaze of the father is one of acceptance and acknowledgment.

[B]

Just like a quiet allowance of you. Meaning the dad, meaning me. I stop insisting my own identity. So much so that I actually become inverted. And I'm only like. Like some sort of neutron thing. Something in science that holds a neutral.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's the most. And I become a neutron holder for my daughter. And I do it so often, I don't do it on purpose, but I'll just be looking at her and just like, amazed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she'll be like, what? Like, you know what I mean? So am I doing it too much? Probably.

[A]

I just came from a friend's place and he was. Has teenage girls and he said that his strategy. Because all he wants to do is go, are you being bullied? Who's hurting you? How can I protect you? How's school? What's your math test? How'd you do? Is he. He picks him up, they sit in the car and he doesn't say anything. And they see him, they feel him, and then he says, then they open up, open up. And I go, that is not how I parent. I do not wait. I mean, my kid's five, but I'm like, how was school? Was the painting? Who's the. What's the teacher? And it's like, hey, man, just make, you know, maybe she needs to see you and feel you and then she'll talk.

[B]

I think that's lovely. And. And also, if your baby is five, I. I think it's not too. My wife and I talk about this all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's not set in stone yet. In fact, just last night we were like, I think we need to stop constantly talking because she isn't only. So we're like, yeah, right.

[A]

Like, four eyes are on.

[B]

You can't have two butlers. And like, everyone's trying to behold. And so there is time. In fact, it becomes very precious time where we're just hanging out and I'm really purposefully not saying anything. And that is when she'll be like, God, that's hard.

[A]

Why is it hard? I'm just kidding. Yeah, but. But we have to leave space for our children to tell us that they saw a dead body in the woods.

[B]

I know. You know, otherwise. Well, you're. You're picking up on it.

[A]

I've never said that sentence in my life.

[B]

Look, if they see a dead body, they're not gonna. When you say, how was your day?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The hope is that they'd say, I saw a dead body.

[A]

I saw a dead body.

[B]

But the truth is they might not be sure if it's. When do you bring that up? It's kind of a buzzkill.

[A]

I remember watching Stand by me as a kid, and I never understood that to mind. I never understood why it was so important for them to go see this body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't that what the whole driving force of the film was?

[B]

Let's go see the body?

[A]

And then I went to a funeral, you know, as a. And saw a body. And I said, it is something that.

[B]

To behold.

[A]

To behold. It is something to look at.

[B]

But imagine that body. Look, here we go in the woods. Bloated, right? Not fixed up.

[A]

And you get to do a trip with your buddies to go do it.

[B]

If you told me if, like, if River Phoenix. It's River Phoenix.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

And like Corey. Feldman.

[A]

Feldman.

[B]

If those boys that age saw me in 20, 25 and were like, there's a body in the woods, I'd go with Them.

[A]

That would, that would be a great. It'd be insane story to tell.

[B]

Insane.

[A]

I mean, River Phoenix and Corey Feldman, but yes, the body. Yeah, that's.

[B]

But I mean, did everybody we see is so cleaned up.

[A]

Did your, did your parents read your book? Is that, is that, is it. Is it loaded? Should I ask you that?

[B]

Because they said they did. But I, I can't be sure. Okay.

[A]

And I don't have to answer. That's a personal question.

[B]

I, I feel really considered that you asked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think they read maybe the beginning and then when it stopped being about them. This is my guess is that they might have fallen off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My mom might have read all of that. This episode is brought to us by our friends at dad Grass. I am obsessed with leisure drink because as you know, probably from listening to the show, I don't drink alcohol anymore. But I occasionally enjoy the hemp arts. And dad Grass makes the best hemp arts. They didn't ask me to say hemp arts. I'm saying hemp arts. They make leisure drink, which is not only one of the tastiest beverages I've ever had in my, my life. With like yuzu flavor. It's unbelievable. But it's also the perfect dose of hemp. Not too little, not too much to loosen you up and let you settle into a social event. Holding a can of something frosty in your hand so I don't feel left out. I'm feeling light, I'm feeling fun. I'm laughing more, I'm loosening up. Thanks to our friends at dad Grass who, like me, noticed that weed was too damn strong. So they made a perfect stackable beverage that is delicious, sparkling. And finally, when there's a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body and your mind with your friends. I've been putting my leisure drinks out at parties. I've been sipping them during family movie nights because it's mild. It's just a little lightness. Not falling into a black hole of oblivion where I can laugh at things a little easier. Enjoy family movies like the Parent Trap, which, which is what it was. And eating pizza with my family, but not eating the entire pizza because I'm completely stoned out of my mind. It's only 3 milligrams of THC, 6 milligrams of CBD and 2,200 milligrams of Lion's Mane per can, which really helps the dose feel nice in your body. It's mild, it's happy and relaxed. Absolutely no hangover. Stackable For a bigger buzz and fast acting. So get leisure drinks and all of dad Grass's products including joints and gummies go to dad dadgrass.com weird use promo code weird for 20% off. That's dadgrass.com weird promo code weird for 20% off. We're also brought to us by our friends at Tushy. Mothers change as many as 6,000 diapers per baby. So let's let the woman of the house get a hall pass when it comes to wiping her own butt. That's right. A bidet is the mother. Day is the mother. Excuse me. It's the mother of all mother's day gifts. Baby that bottom with wave, cloud plus and aura by Tushy Bidet. These are the everyday luxury bidets that instantly transform your bathroom habits and bottom health for life. I don't understand why in 2025 we're still just wiping our butts with paper. If you had poop on your hand, you would wash it off. It's the same with your butt. Get a warm, comfortable blast of water straight at your butthole. Clean as a whistle. It's like power blasting dry leaves out of your driveway with a high powered hose. A Tushy bidet is an absolute game changer. There is no going back. It's easy, it's fast, and once you try it, your life will never be the same. I thought it would be weird. It's not weird. I thought it couldn't find what it's supposed to find. No, it finds it right away. I thought, there's no other way now to poop. It feels primitive any other way. This is like a midday shower in five seconds with every poo the way God intended. So reclaim your comfort zone in the bathroom. For a limited time, our listeners get 10 off your first bidet order when you use code weird at checkout. That's 10 off your first [e-mail] with promo code weird. But this is actually I again, 46. And I'm just going like, I need to stop wanting them to be something that they're not. And that's, I mean, I'm shooting a movie and I have to cry. And that's something I wrote down to think about when I have to cry in this movie because it's, it's really, it's really hard. And I did this therapy session where I was like surrendering this hope me and my child self being like, I got you. We don't need that. Let's stop. And.

[A]

And it was like, thank you for Sharing that.

[B]

Yeah, of course. It's hard, right? Well, go ahead.

[A]

It is hard to surrender that you cannot change people, or they may not give you what you want. What you want, what you.

[B]

What you think you need.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's hard.

[B]

What? Who in your family. You don't have to. Is it dad?

[A]

What? That is.

[B]

When you dedicated your book to your dad. Yeah. I was like, here we go.

[A]

Here we go. Here's the. Here's the good stuff. My father passed in the writing of this book.

[B]

Oh, wow. Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So it just felt. Michael, that's okay. It felt very. It felt very appropriate. And I love this picture of my dad and I shaking hands. It's not printed very well, but.

[B]

Take that, Simon Harper Collins. Let me see.

[A]

There's this beautiful moment in tennis, Pete, and I don't know how much you. You know or care.

[B]

Movie, Match point.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, Exactly. But you're going to battle with this person, and you're doing everything you can't. Thank you for that. You're doing everything you can to trick them. You're doing everything you can to defeat them. You're doing everything within the rules to belittle them, to humiliate them. You know? And then there's my favorite part of all sport, but in particular tennis, because it's so personal and there's no other teammates to hide behind or masks or is. Is you. You approach each other and you. And you look each other in the eye and you shake hands.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And hockey is the closest. Where they will kick each other's asses and then go, hey, man, good fight. You know, it's like, I freaking love that.

[B]

I wrote about this in my book.

[A]

You did?

[B]

Somebody plays for the Red Sox for the most of their career, gets traded to the Yankees.

[A]

Outrageous.

[B]

But then they come back to Fenway, Everyone gives them a standing ovation. That's the handshake of thousands of people at once.

[A]

That type of silly thing makes me cry.

[B]

Can't handle it.

[A]

One time I was at Dodger Stadium, which is right behind this studio.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's why I'm pointing to it this way. And one of the players on one of the teams was traded that afternoon to the team. They were playing this crazy. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, so.

[A]

And no joke. And this will be.

[B]

He just walked across.

[A]

Dude. No joke. Someone can find this on the Internet. When the inning was over, the first inning, he ran to the wrong dugout because for 15 years, he'd been running to the Dodgers dugout, and he was on the other team. Anyway, so when I found this picture of my father and I shaking hands at the net, it was like, oh, man, I can't.

[B]

You've. You're very good at conversation. Tennis, my man.

[A]

Well, good.

[B]

Good, Mom.

[A]

That is what. That was what my mom taught us.

[B]

It's beautiful because you've really, like, five times now touched on something that I'm like, That's like my number one thing.

[A]

Like, my number one thing. Good.

[B]

Even though I don't play sports, I love sports. Movies. Who cares? I'm just.

[A]

No, I want to talk about that actually, too.

[B]

I can get in touch with sports. I just. Because I was never good at it. I was like, this isn't paying out. I'm gonna walk away. But when it comes to people transcending. So sports, and I'm gonna put this to you. Is like, let's. Let's play a game.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Just like reality, obviously, but you and I are playing a game, and there's dynamics and there's rules and all this other stuff, but we're gonna be like. It's gonna. We're gonna accordion it down, and we're gonna live a whole life in three periods or four quarters. It's going to be the whole life of this thing. And we're gonna be mad at each other, and we're gonna be angry and we're gonna cry and all this stuff. And at the end, there'll be this little twinkle in your eye, like all of this was pretend. All of this was. We did this for each other.

[A]

I, I, I resonate with that wholeheartedly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the beauty, in my opinion, is all of those words you mentioned, we're gonna. You didn't say love. I'll add love. Because sometimes in a competition, you do look to your opponent with, with admiration and vice versa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In tennis, you. You clap your racket to the other person, they hit a good shot, and you go, hey, you know what, man? I hate you, and I'm trying to kill you, but good job. All of those words you said are life in real words. But the trick of sport is it's not real stakes. That's. That's the beauty.

[B]

Right?

[A]

No one's. It's made up. It's a game we've made. It's a play. They draw lines.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just like my daughter draws lines in this. I mean, that's what a line is.

[B]

Yeah. You enter this space, and in this space, you're my opponent. But it gives you this, like, safe place to feel. All right? Feelings.

[A]

I Think it's so funny that there's lines on a court. We drew lines. It's so game. It's so gamey. It's so childlike.

[B]

You mean like a board game?

[A]

Yeah, like a board game. Like a sandbox. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, you know, it's a. It's silly. It's silly.

[B]

It is silly.

[A]

Much like borders are silly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Someone did that. And now that's. This.

[B]

And this is a great piece you did. The Great Britain was like, now there's two Irelands. It was an island.

[A]

Was that my bit? Was it your bit? Oh, my God.

[B]

You did that about. You were talking about Palestine. So what else. What else do you have to say? Just kidding. But it was. It was your Israel, Palestine segment when you guest hosted, Correct?

[A]

Yep, correct. Thank you for.

[B]

For.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

You feel researched, my man.

[A]

You did do your research.

[B]

Feel researched.

[A]

That's very nice of you. Thank you.

[B]

I would say I don't want to force this, but I'm going to lob it to you.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I actually think I would have said that even if it wasn't you.

[A]

Yeah. Which makes you think. Was it vernacular first?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tennis took it or was it tennis? Yeah.

[B]

Is it like. Oh, that was like, when you lob some. Yeah, I think it was tennis.

[A]

It's gotta be tennis first. It feels tennis first.

[B]

Feels tennis first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the reason I like it and feel free and I trust you to disagree with me, I think deep down what we all are is awareness, is consciousness.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And consciousness takes these different forms, but deep down, it's the same consciousness that's in me, that's in you. And it's. It's one thing. It's one knowing. And. But. But it's playing this game. It's like sports.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, I'll be in life. Let's say I'll be your teammate. We're both comedians. I'm your teammate. We're allies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you and I were at a wedding and there were no comedians there, oh, man. We would go right for each other.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Like your great line in your book, if I saw a tennis racket and a dog, I'd be good. Those are your allies? Yes. Comics, too. I think we're drawn towards each other. But, like, I also might be your enemy. I might, like, blackmail you or I just listen to something about black.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Or, you know, I steal something from you or. Or whatever it is, but underneath it all, you know, I'm just pretending to be a Yankee and you're Just pretending to be a Red Sox. And I think without talking about. I like talking about it and ruining it. The reason why we're all so emotional when Johnny Damon takes his hat off at Fenway, even though he's a Yankee, we go like, we're all the same. We're all the same. And you can say that we're all consciousness. We can just say we're all in this together. Is a more human way to say it, right?

[A]

Yeah. It is wild how it strikes these emotions. And what's interesting about your metaphor or analogy, I'm not sure which one it was, is that in life, the game clock, it's when it's zero. Is death.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And how important is death, man? We have to have death, buddy.

[B]

I can't believe. Would you listen to this podcast? Because I often. Don't answer that.

[A]

I've listened. I listened to your. The. The last one, which I love. The. The. The Jesse.

[B]

Oh, Jesse Fox.

[A]

So great you got. And it was. It was a bummer that. That you guys could have talked comedy for four hours.

[B]

I know. And it was the only day in my life they double booked.

[A]

And that made me laugh. It also made me think of. It made me laugh with the. The Conan o', Brien, Rory Scoville and John Doer double booking comedy bit. That made me think of that.

[B]

One of the best night.

[A]

That was just so funny.

[B]

Just do their simultaneously.

[A]

But yeah, yeah, you guys touched on death a little bit and it connected with. It connected with me. And I remember this childish book we read in elementary school called Tuck Everlasting. And somehow Tuck drank from the fountain of whatever everlasting and never died. And it was the first time in my life that I learned and kind of everything that he loved died around him. The dog, the family. But you don't want to live forever.

[B]

That's a dark book.

[A]

Yeah. For. Especially for first graders. I know. No, it wasn't first graders. It was like. I forget what it was.

[B]

But yeah, later, later. A little bit later.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, this is the Curse of the Vampire. Christian Finnegan, I always think of. Christian Finnegan had this bit where he's like, why are vampires going out? Oh. He goes, why do they live in castles? And then he's like, well, they live forever. So a few prudent investments, like it pays off.

[A]

You can let. You can let the market come to you after 150 years. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

[B]

A great bet.

[A]

That's a good bet.

[B]

Christian Finnegan.com. i don't know why I'm doing that. But yeah. He's so funny. Anyway, I was saying, I've said before that death is like the clock on the game and makes it so fun. And what makes sports resonate and be relevant throughout. Again. See, I love sports even though I don't watch them or play them. But it's a great metaphor for life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we love sportsmanship because sportsmanship is transcending or having some sort of cap on your emotion that you can be so mad at your opponent, so tough and clap for them is incredible.

[A]

That's the whole thing. That's my. The thing I get most impressed by now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is sportsmanship. I couldn't agree more. I cannot fathom with the stakes even. There's no real stakes. Money, winning, pride, fame, effort, devotion to the sport. That then people will lose with class. I can't believe it.

[B]

It's literally. We sound like. I don't know, we sound like two dignitaries. Like we should be wearing powdered wigs.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Because this sounds like an old timey conversation. Like nothing more than the class of a good sportsman.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But it's true. And listen to what I was about to say. I should be in a top coat. It's like it is what separates us from the animal.

[A]

It is. It is.

[B]

There are no two animals.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean literal animals.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That will fight like boxers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when a bell rings, will stop.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And go like, nice fight.

[B]

Good fight. Like a wolverine claw across the face and be like, you know what you've been practicing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's why I love seeing opponents hanging out like anytime. They're like classic rivalries. And it's like, did you like McEnroe? His arrival with Bjorn Borg? But they were friends. I think. All I know is McEnroe had a friend and they made each other better.

[A]

Bjorn Bork.

[B]

Okay. For sure.

[A]

The Swede.

[B]

It's like we need those relationships. I was also going to put this to you. Is like when you're playing another fantastic tennis player, maybe 1% of the audience, audience, crowd knows why the other player might be better. Like, what I'm saying is it's like mathematicians. It's like Good Will Hunting. He's like the difference between me and you, only I know it.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

I'm the only one who knows that you're a genius. But you have to be a genius to know what a genius you are. So you must be like, not only do I love this person, but this person actually defines me.

[A]

Well. And that's why you start to kind of hate the sport when you're in it so much because it takes over your life. But then as you get older and I'm 45 years old, you're 46 now. When I go to a party and I find someone plays tennis, it's like, boom, locked in. We know each other's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Comedy's very similar. I mean, this is what I love about late night in that only so many people can like talk to you about the late night writers room. Yeah, you obviously can, but it's like. Oh, it's. I'm not even saying anyone's better than anybody. It's just we've all had that once singular experience that is very small and specific.

[B]

That's right. When I was doing my talk show, I had a meeting with Seth Meyers and I swear to you, I'm not just changing this revisionist history, but he was like, we're in a really interesting group. Like you and I are in this group of people who have had late night shows. And I remember thinking, I was like, it's not the same. Like, I'm doing this little dinky. I wasn't putting myself down. But he's still on the air.

[A]

I know, but I.

[B]

He's been doing it for a decade longer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, probably. I mean, I like that though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I agree with him.

[B]

It was nice to step it out.

[A]

And it is cool when you see like the pictures of like Jay Leno and David Letterman hanging out or whatever. It's like, okay, they're at least have a similar experience.

[B]

Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, I can't speak to Conan if he like, really had an animosity towards Jay. But I have to think that even if he did, at the end of the game, we all take our hats off and we're Johnny Damon and we cheer like you can see.

[A]

That's so. That's such an interesting question.

[B]

Yeah, I. I couldn't.

[A]

Wow, what a wild situation that was.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Remember, that was a while and I think I was. Yeah, I was here in la. I talk about a little bit of that situation in the book.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Because that situation behooved me because Jay got the Tonight show back, which a lot of the comedy industry was frustrated with.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But then I had a relationship with Jay's bookers, and so then they offered me the Tonight show, which was a wild situation that I said yes to. And I'm very stand up on it. I'm very thankful I did. But there was A part of me thinking, seven months ago, this was Conan's Tonight Show. Yeah. And it's like, I needed a break. We all need a break. And I was thankful for it. But what a wild time.

[B]

Well, I actually remember. I don't think Team Conan liked this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's all imagining.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Seinfeld was like, the whole thing with show business is you stay. Like, if you get something, you stay. Oh, so he would agree with what you just. What I just said, and there is a logic to it, is the Seinfeld say that he sort of, in my mind, famously said that Conan should have taken the 12 o' clock tonight show. Like, this whole idea of, like, it's not the Tonight show if it's on at 12. He's like, Seinfeld was like, once you get the gig, keep it.

[A]

But that's not how he says it. He says it like, if you have.

[B]

A gig, you gotta keep it.

[A]

That's why I wanted, that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted.

[B]

I walk away from the gig.

[A]

Yeah. It's bad.

[B]

It's fun, though.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I remember wholeheartedly Conan sending the letter out.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Earthling. Dear Earthlings. And I just thought that was so respectful and cool and good sportsman. Good sportsman.

[B]

But see, at the end of the day, that's tough, though. But at the end of the day, what we're talking about, Leno and Conan backstage. I mean, like, I'm picturing it in, like, heaven. Like a classic child's understanding of heaven. They hug each other.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

They go, I really fucked you. Or you really tried to fuck me, or whatever it is. What a game. It's like the worst days of our lives are like. David Mamet wrote this really great essay about the perfect baseball game. I think about it all the time. It's basically, home team is winning, home team is losing. Home team is losing. Way beyond hope. Home team comes back. It's every movie. Right. So, too, with our lives, we want it when your car breaks down or whatever it is. Like, I think about it every time I drive home from the airport. Val and I hit a pothole. And it turned into this really sweet little inconvenient adventure where it was raining, but we were laughing about it. And I was like, yeah, home team down.

[A]

That's really good that were you laughing in the moment.

[B]

We can do that now.

[A]

Okay. Because.

[B]

Because that was amazing.

[A]

We took the whole family to Canada last Christmas, and babies don't need passports to fly Right. Right. Wrong. So it is.

[B]

So I just say, as someone who had a baby passport, is there anything funnier?

[A]

Dude, I had to hold her head up. Baby.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

It's like, I'm like, literally like my hand, my hands are in her passport picture.

[B]

Signature. Yes.

[A]

No, it is inside. Insane.

[B]

You're who? You're pro.

[A]

You're weakened.

[B]

Bernie.

[A]

She can't hold her head up yet. And. Yes.

[B]

But now she has official documentation that she is currently chewing on and doesn't.

[A]

Look anything like that picture because she's.

[B]

Leela flew with that. We. I forget why we went. She came to see me in Canada or something. So she's got her baby passport. We just updated it. But yes, you.

[A]

So, okay, so this couldn't go. Yeah. Okay. So we get to the airport, it's like, you know, we're counting down the days. We're going to be on an airplane to the kids. We're going to be on an airplane. Oh, my God. We get there. They go, the baby needs a passport. We go, no, she doesn't. I googled it, you know, and it was like, they don't need a passport. Exactly. They don't need a passport if they cross over a land border, but over airport, you do. So all of this to say that's a disaster. We had four airplane flights and we decided to drive across the border to Montreal, which is five and a half hour drive. Pain in the butt. Now we're in a hotel rebooking all the flights. This whole thing, right, Everything's a disaster. Kind of like your pothole. Time time. A million.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We kept it together, but there was some frustration. All of this to be said. We now look back on that experience as this wonderful, beautiful travel thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And even crazier because we were in Montreal. We needed a last minute hotel. We booked this place quickly. We get there. It's where I met my wife.

[B]

We didn't.

[A]

It was a new hotel name. We didn't realize it.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So now I'm like in a hotel room with my wife, with our children now, reminiscing about when we met.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What a beautiful life thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But my challenge is when that pothole gets hit. I don't see that. That is going to be a great story. I get mad. I get mad is what happens.

[B]

But that look, in your defense, that's the artistry of life. Look, I'm always going to spiritualize things. That's just who I am. I'm happy you do, but. Okay.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I feel safe.

[A]

Then for real.

[B]

Imagine there's one consciousness. We call this God. There's one knowing, and it splits itself into 10,000 people, 10,000 things, all this stuff. Then it gets so lost in the drama. Just exactly the same way you get lost in a movie, there's a bomb that's going to go off. It's a flat screen, you're on your couch, but you're in it. The artistry is actually you getting mad.

[A]

I'm supposed to get. It's okay. If that's what I feel, I'm going.

[B]

To say it's beautiful, right? Let's not say if it's okay or bad. I think it transcends that category. But put it this way. If I was playing peekaboo with myself and I got so lost in the dream, right? Like when you have a lucid dream and you realize you're dreaming, the dream is kind of over, right? It's. It's. It continues in a way, but it's sort of ruined when you're like, ah, good episode, right?

[A]

Look. Right.

[B]

We really thought we were.

[A]

Michael.

[B]

We really thought the vacation mattered in exactly the same way we really thought the points mattered in this sandbox we drew correct. It's exact. It's all meaning making.

[A]

Oh, I had a thought. Michael. Think it was that. That's gone. Does that happen to you more and more?

[B]

Single day.

[A]

More and more, though.

[B]

I'm going to say I think I have a neuro. Talked a lot. No, you don't. You do not. Talking about 45. 46.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I turn 26, I swear, like an airlock on a spaceship, a door opened and just thousands of docum flew out. And I am.

[A]

Or is it. Is it parenting?

[B]

Maybe it might be parenting. Parenting kills you slowly.

[A]

Because I'm thinking about this other person and wanting to protect and provide for them.

[B]

Yeah. And I know every dog on puppy paw patrol. I know puppy dog pals.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

When my daughter goes, what's that show with the ooze? And I'm like Captain Underpants. And I know.

[A]

Yeah, that's also.

[B]

That's me re. Re parenting.

[A]

I did get it back. You got it when I'm angry about the pothole. Metaphorical pothole in this case. The baby's passport. Emotions are present and our memory remembers when emotions were present.

[B]

It's in the book.

[A]

It's in the book because it's. It helped. It helps us to remember. We don't remember folding laundry last Wednesday because there was no emotions present. I mean, maybe we can draw And.

[B]

I love that you said that's what makes it hurtful when someone forgets your birthday, because they're not having an emotional response to you.

[A]

They're not attaching emotions to you.

[B]

Yeah. So if your husband does forget your anniversary, you're right to be a little upset.

[A]

It's okay to be mad.

[B]

It doesn't go ahead and read into it, too. It's like, yeah, come on.

[A]

Yeah, come on. And also, what's an important part of relationships is forgiveness.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Because I just see that.

[A]

Which cameras?

[B]

Which one is mine? They're all getting a piece of us. Actually, that's not true. This one is only getting you.

[A]

Yeah. So that's that.

[B]

Okay, speed round, because we're. We're four minutes out.

[A]

Oh, man. Flies by with you, Pete, again, thank you for the time.

[B]

Can I say, again, I'm sorry I gave you any guff about being late. I'm gonna replay that a thousand times.

[A]

Is it gonna be on the pod? Let's. Let's.

[B]

Maybe we should leave it in.

[A]

Yeah, you want to leave it in? It's a real moment when I go.

[B]

You were 20 minutes late.

[A]

You. Well, I was late.

[B]

Yeah, but I'm your. I'm your host. I'm hosting you.

[A]

Thanks for taking hosting seriously. Serious? No, I mean, I've been drawn to hosts my whole life. That's what I always loved as host. And people see it. A lot of people, especially comedians, see it as like, I'll do the thing at the beginning of the show.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

But it's like, hosting is a thing. It's an action verb.

[B]

It's also a. I'm gonna. It is an action verb, and I'm gonna say it's a good life. Is like trying to empathize and be imaginative about another person. I can't always do it, but if you can make that space, that's why. Well, we covered it. I have this audition.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I was tense. I feel better now. Thank you. But, like, when I'm tense, that's when Pete says things like, you were 20 minutes late. It's just a hurt person.

[A]

No, stop. It is.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's. I. I.

[B]

What?

[A]

I. I get it. I. I get it. You do? I get it. I connect.

[B]

This is forgiveness. I really appreciate it. And it wasn't a big deal. And you could even flip the tables and go, you're doing this podcast for free. This is your time.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that. Of course. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Do get a Gift basket.

[A]

Oh, that's nice. Perfect.

[B]

Modern mammals. You like it?

[A]

I love. You can have two any time. I mean this truly authentically in. In organically. I love when a comedian has figured out a way to provide for themselves through the content they make.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't that great?

[A]

It's like, I love when comics are like, I don't like that show. I'm like, okay, you don't like the show. That's. That's yay for comedy. That this person created a thing that now is out there and works for them and it lets them be in the business.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That's a win for everybody.

[A]

Win for everybody.

[B]

Rising tide.

[A]

Rising tide. And what is. What does Rick Rubin say? Releasing the art is the success.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do we like him? I like what he says. Okay. Okay. I like it. But I'm always like, am I falling for the cliche spiritual?

[B]

We like. We like Rick Rubin.

[A]

Everyone needs to know that. I'm saying this as much to myself as I am to everyone watching. Releasing is the art is the success.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is the success. I love that. And it's a nice note to end on. Although I do want to ask, risking going a little over. Who cares?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Can you think of a time you laughed really, really hard? I imagine growing up in this big family, you had lots of moments. I'm gonna prime you a little bit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sometimes someone fell. Oh. I. I usually say it doesn't have to be a good story. I'm not looking for, like a. It was Christmas Eve. It's not like that somebody fell, somebody farted, or. It was a situation where you're not allowed to laugh.

[A]

Yeah. Catholic church. We would have laughing fits a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you weren't allowed to the best. And mom would get mad immediately. So we'd have a lot of those. The one that comes to mind when you said this to me was in seventh grade. We went on a cruise. My dad took our whole family on a cruise, which now sounds like the biggest nightmare of my life. At the seventh grade, it was cool because there was a casino and I could drink virgin pina coladas. Yeah. You ever been on a cruise?

[B]

Virgin pina.

[A]

Have you ever been on a cruise?

[B]

Yes, unfortunately.

[A]

Okay. Right.

[B]

It was awful.

[A]

So people get very reactionary about cruise.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They bring you out at the very beginning, and they do this safe, light safety vest thing.

[B]

Where everybody.

[A]

They have to wear their life vest and they show you, like, if the cruise ship. I'm already dead. Do you remember this or.

[B]

No. Yes, I do remember this. So what a great backdrop.

[A]

Right? So I am the punchline of this story, but it does make me laugh. And I hate that my brother Todd gets the credit for this one. So they bring out thousands of people. They do the thing over the thing. You tie the thing, the life vest on. And as we're all walking away now, thousands of people are heading in this direction. My brother had tied my loose life jacket to this pole behind me, and I didn't know you know the trick I'm talking about.

[B]

So now elevation of tying the shoes late.

[A]

It's exactly that. So now thousands of people are all moving this direction, and I'm moving with them, but I have to now go backwards to untie myself. And it was a great joke. It was also probably why I'm a comedian today, because I still just want someone to say they love me and stop making fun of me. Yes.

[B]

Fuck you, clown.

[A]

Fuck you. You know, Fuck youk Clown.

[B]

Do you know that joke?

[A]

I don't know that.

[B]

Guy gets insulted by a clown, goes to clown college. It's one of those jokes you make it as long as you can. He majors in comebacks. He finally sees the same clown and goes, fuck you, clown.

[A]

Oh, that's exactly right. So that was a very funny bit. And. And when. When you said that, that's what I thought of.

[B]

What a fantastic answer. I. I can see it. I'll never forget it.

[A]

And it's also how my family said, I love you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though it's up.

[B]

No. Everything you read about my family gave me, like, some. Some jealousy, actually. I was like, this sounds really sweet. I related mostly to Christy, who couldn't play sports.

[A]

Chris, you know what Christy does now?

[B]

What's that?

[A]

She's a nurse practitioner at a hospice.

[B]

Yeah, you told me in the.

[A]

You told me every single day she helps people pass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't that unbelievable?

[B]

She's doing great.

[A]

Isn't that. It is a crazy, amazing job. And she says, I love it because it's the only part of medicine where I don't have to fix it. Yeah, you can't fix it.

[B]

You can't fix it.

[A]

You're there to become. From.

[B]

The art is letting it go. Releasing it.

[A]

It's releasing it.

[B]

Something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What a beautiful calling.

[A]

Yeah. If she.

[B]

She doesn't need any help. But Ram Dass has some great talks on hospice.

[A]

It's okay. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

I'm trying. I'll try. And it might be called, like, Death and dying. It's with CDs it doesn't matter. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Called Lucky Louie fx Lucky Loser.

[A]

Lucky.

[B]

Lucky Loser. Lucky. Oh no.

[A]

Yeah, here we go. Yeah.

[B]

But Lucky Loser, it's available now and it's a great audiobook.

[A]

It's a good. I read it and thanks for having me. I've been a fan of yours for a long time. It's a pleasure to be on your pod for real.

[B]

It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Oh, you have to say keep it crispy. What am I doing?

[A]

Doing? Okay, so I didn't understand this. This is just. I just.

[B]

It doesn't mean it's not a trick.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

No hyper vigilance, no Ludar. It's just how you say goodbye. You get to say goodbye though.

[A]

Keep it crispy.

[B]

That's.