You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Rabbi Mordecai Finley
Date: November 8, 2023

Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Comedian Pete Holmes sits down with Rabbi Mordecai Finley (“The Black Belt Rabbi”) for a wide-ranging, lively, and deeply insightful conversation on wisdom, spirituality, the human shadow, parenting, humor, the nature of evil, and living well. Their discussion blends psychology, philosophy, religion, and comedy, offering practical and profound perspectives for navigating life’s weirdness.

Rabbi Finley draws from his diverse background as a rabbi, martial artist, scholar, and counselor, while Pete brings humor and vulnerability as they together explore what it means to lead a wise and meaningful life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining the “Official Beverage” of Religions and Jewish Symbolism

[03:50–08:00]

• Pete humorously speculates about the “official beverage” for world religions (wine for Christianity, milk for Hinduism, coffee for Islam/Middle East, tea for Buddhism, etc.).
• Rabbi Finley explains that, although wine is present in Jewish ritual, Jews typically don’t claim a beverage as “official” and discusses the role of sacramental wine.
• Pete asks about the Star of David’s origins—Rabbi Finley clarifies it is a relatively late symbol with little ancient precedent:

  “Usually when I say things, I’ve looked it up. Not always... But clearly the Zionist movement needed a symbol, we need a flag, and that was decided upon.” (Rabbi Finley, 07:55)

2. Kosher Laws, Wisdom, and the Nature of Spiritual Duty

[08:19–12:00]

• Pete and Rabbi Finley discuss the logic behind kosher dietary laws, relating them to hygiene and cultural boundaries.
• Rabbi Finley sharpens the conversation around what constitutes wisdom:

  “I think it’s the most important thing a human being can learn. One reason people suffer is because they don’t have wisdom.” (Rabbi Finley, 12:02)

3. What is Wisdom? Is Life About Self-Realization?

[12:32–17:00]

• Pete recalls Eckhart Tolle’s ideas on collective insanity and asks, “Does wisdom add or subtract?”
• Rabbi Finley articulates his nuanced view on self-actualization and the importance of using precise language to avoid spiritual fuzziness:

  “Language mediates between the conscious and the unconscious... The more precise we can use language, the wiser we become.” (Rabbi Finley, 15:45)

• On realizing one’s potential:

  “Not all potentials are worth realizing. We all have the potential to be very stupid.” (Rabbi Finley, 14:56)

4. Levels and Meaning of Life: Duty, Happiness, and 360° Awareness

[20:08–25:45]

• Rabbi Finley outlines four levels for finding meaning:
  1. Duty: Do your spiritual/moral duty (to self, to others, to maintain well-being).
  2. Happiness: Seek authentic joy and resilience.
  3. Awareness: Maintain constant “360°” awareness, a concept he draws from martial arts and spirituality:

     “In martial arts, we call it 360 awareness. I should cultivate a kind of moral and spiritual 360 awareness.” (Rabbi Finley, 21:48–23:41)

• The importance of resilience when facing despair:

  “I think you have a primary duty to be resilient when your option is despair.” (Rabbi Finley, 21:36)

5. Martial Arts, Spiritual Practice, and Discipline

[25:45–33:25]

• Finley connects the physical discipline of martial arts with spiritual discipline:
  • Martial arts cultivate 360 awareness both physically and morally/spiritually.
  • “There’s always something in you that does not want to be disciplined, which is why we call it discipline.” (Rabbi Finley, 31:41)
• Discussion on Steven Pressfield’s concept of "resistance" and its Jewish analogue, the Yetzer Hara (the destructive inclination):

  “Think of it as a quasi external intelligence that does not share your vision for yourself and will work actively against it.” (Rabbi Finley, 33:32)

6. Humor, Jewishness, and Comedy as Wisdom

[35:18–38:07 & 46:05–62:09]

• Discussion about Bill Burr’s deceptive craft and the mastery required in comedy.
• Rabbi Finley loves standup, names Bill Burr, Jeselnik, and Chappelle as favorites.
• On the nature of Jewish/Yiddish humor:

  “Yiddish humor was very much surreptitious, deconstructive, cynical, edgy coming from an angle. And that’s one of the functions of humor.” (Rabbi Finley, 46:08)

• Humor, like wisdom, breaks through slogans and exposes unconscious truths:

  “The greatest philosophers are comedians. Because a good comedian relentlessly goes to the heart of the matter, breaks it open, and we laugh because a new truth has been revealed.” (Rabbi Finley, 63:00–64:25)

• Pete and Rabbi Finley discuss how biblical stories like Jonah are best understood as sophisticated, dark satire or burlesque, not sanitized morality tales.

7. Shadow, Resistance, and Insight (Psychology of Evil)

[39:40–41:04 & 69:53–73:32 & 90:25–104:50]

• Both discuss the Yetzer Hara (and “the shadow”), and how recognizing and naming it are essential to not being run by it:

  “Once you get to a level of consciousness, you realize it is not I. There’s an authentic self trying to live my life, and suddenly you realize there’s an alternative self inside of you that has a contrary vision.” (Rabbi Finley, 39:40)

• Pete shares personal stories illustrating the shadow in daily life (feeling slighted at swings, dealing with embarrassment or status). Finley suggests these moments are opportunities for “insight”—the seed that allows for growth and repairing one’s “brokenness” (a kabbalistic idea).

8. Parenting: Virtue Signaling, Video Games, and Real Conversations

[71:51–86:52]

• Pete and Rabbi Finley lampoon parental virtue signaling and question blanket anti-tech stances.
• Rabbi Finley urges parents to seek out “the long goal of parenting”:

  “The greatest gift you can give your kid is to know that calendar is king and clock is queen. You got to live inside that.” (Rabbi Finley, 83:00)

• Replace slogans and rules with insight; have honest talks about desires, risks, and meaning (“Explain to me your resistance to brushing your teeth.”)

9. God, Atheism, and the Power of Story & Metaphor

[112:35–119:05]

• Rabbi Finley on modern atheism: The rise in atheism is a result of the Enlightenment's challenge to dogma.
• What does “belief in God” mean? For Rabbi Finley, more than metaphysics—it's about language, inherited stories, and tools for meaning:

  “I see Judaism as a coherent language, value system, text, metaphors, ways of talking, so we can conduct the business of deepening and enjoying our lives.” (Rabbi Finley, 112:35)

10. Mind, Language, and Reality

[115:04–121:22]

• Pete ponders the unreality of abstractions (“United Airlines doesn’t really exist”), leading into a discussion on concepts, phenomenology, and the construction of meaning:

  “When we say United, it’s a linguistic way to organize something…does it have a will? Is it conscious? Did it actually do something?” (Rabbi Finley, 117:15)

• Finley introduces “Meinung’s Jungle”—the place in philosophy where concepts that don’t exist nevertheless occupy our minds.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wisdom & Language:

  “Language mediates between the conscious and the unconscious… The more precisely we use language, the wiser we become.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 15:45)

• On Duty and Happiness:

  “I have a duty to create well-being physically, mentally, morally, spiritually... When I'm not sure what to do, examine myself, examine my environment, and ask myself what my duty is at that moment.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 21:00)

• On the Shadow:

  “The Yetzer Hara…a quasi-external intelligence that does not share your vision for yourself and will work actively against it.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 33:32)

• On Comedy and Truth:

  “A good comedian relentlessly goes to the heart of the matter, breaks it open and we laugh because a new truth has been revealed… that’s why I love standup.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 63:00)

• On Parenting:

  “The greatest gift you can give your kid is to know that calendar is king and clock is queen. You got to live inside that.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 83:00)

• On Self-Honesty:

  “If it’s ever all for God, you are in really big trouble because you’re lying. Because you’re lying. And a pious liar—that's the worst kind.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 103:40)

• On Insight:

  “Insight is a gift for life. Every problem you have with a child is a chance to teach insight.”
  (Rabbi Finley, 86:21)

Standout Moments (with Timestamps)

• Star of David’s True Origins
  07:55: “Six-pointed star… more or less, the Zionist movement needs a symbol, we need a flag and that was decided upon.” (Rabbi Finley)

• Meaning of Life Framework
  20:08–23:19: Four-level model—duty, happiness/well-being, resilience, “360” awareness.

• Discipline and the Monkey Mind
  30:58–32:33: How meditation and habit “tame the monkey”—“once the monkey’s trained, you just keep the monkey trained.” (Rabbi Finley)

• Jewish Humor and Parenting by Deconstruction
  46:05–49:40: “Our child rearing has been based on jokes and pranks… part of one of the jobs of parenting is to constantly deconstruct reality.” (Rabbi Finley)

• Genesis and Jonah as Dark Satire
  54:55–64:09: Rabbi Finley reframes the Genesis snake as truthful (and God as ambiguous), and explains Jonah as a burlesque of prophecy.

• The Function of Comedians in Society
  63:04: “The greatest philosophers are comedians…”

• Reframing Video Games and TV in Parenting
  75:02–86:52: “Let’s not make the kid bad for loving what they love. Every issue is an opportunity for a meaningful conversation, for teaching insight.”

Further Learning and Courses

• Parenting and Wisdom Classes:
  Rabbi Finley offers online courses on wisdom and parenting—more info at rabbifinley.com. He recommends approaching parenting as fostering insight and resilience, not control.

  “When they're 20 and lost—really lost—they’ll call you. That's one of the goals of parenting.” (Rabbi Finley, 83:51)

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, witty, and rigorous, full of gentle teasing, rabbinical precision, and stand-up comic angles. Both men embrace uncertainty, joke about their own flaws, and are unafraid to inhabit “the shadow”—the embarrassing, messy, or even dark parts of human nature. There’s a shared commitment to going beneath slogans, asking deeper questions, and tolerating ambiguity, always with an undercurrent of warmth.

Closing Note

“Mitzvah means duty... It's a duty that produces a good.” (Rabbi Finley, 123:36–124:10)

The episode closes with Pete offering a heartfelt, “Of all the things you could do, you share and you give, and that’s beautiful… I wish that for you. I hope you feel that today.”

Keep it crispy.