Reggie Watts Returns

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: Reggie Watts Returns

Release Date: October 30, 2024
Guest: Reggie Watts

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Episode Overview

This episode of You Made It Weird marks the long-awaited return of multi-talented musician and comedian Reggie Watts, who originally performed the show’s theme song over a decade ago. Pete and Reggie dive deep into everything from creativity and playfulness to AI, consciousness, psychedelics, paradox, and the search for meaning. The conversation traverses philosophy, technology, comedy, identity, and ways to live more freely and presently.

The episode is rich with spontaneous humor, tangential stories, and profound reflections, all colored by the duo’s unique rapport and playful energy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reunion Vibes, Whimsy, and Reggie’s Creative Approach

• Theme song history: Reggie reminisces about writing the "You Made It Weird" theme song 10+ years ago ([00:15]).
• Performing with play: Pete reflects on how Reggie’s performances embody creative freedom and playfulness, contrasting absorbing media with making it ([05:26]).
• Improv is the secret: Reggie shares, "Improvisation is kind of like, it makes the mundane more fantastic" ([13:43]).

2. The AI Zone: Animals, Capitalism, and Cultural Absurdities

• AI won’t get us: Pete and Reggie muse on how artificial intelligence wouldn't fathom human practices like animal cruelty, borders, or world hunger ([11:06]–[12:11]).
  • Pete: “I think AI just won’t understand it. … Some of the great cultural myths, the brutalities we just accept.”
• Capitalism and power: The conversation critiques our systems, from land ownership to endless growth, suggesting our culture is filled with irrational inherited norms ([30:26]).

3. Improvisational Living and Flow

• Pete references Reggie's old advice: “Just drive home a different way. … Your brain will go like—thank you.” ([14:04])
• Mini decisions matter: The importance of making small, out-of-routine choices to spark creativity and presence ([15:05]).
• Match Point analogy: Pete uses a tennis metaphor—life pivots on little decisions, like whether you get out of bed ([14:59]).

4. Music, Hyperpop, and the Internet’s Influence on Art

• Hyperpop explained: Reggie details the genre's ADD-editing, queer/trans roots, and constant stimulation—mirroring internet-era brains ([17:53], [20:00]).
• Jake Lodwick & Vimeo: Early internet’s influence on Reggie’s sensibilities—“What I was doing mimicked the brain that we were starting to get from interacting with the internet” ([23:13]–[25:20]).

5. Tech Metaphors and Evolution

• Operating systems: The duo discusses how digital metaphors (desktop, file, etc.) derive from the physical world, and our brains have evolved to organize information like computers ([25:45], [26:09]).
• Designing from scratch: Pete admires Google’s “what if email didn’t exist?” design mentality—mirroring Reggie’s improv philosophy ([28:00]).

6. Philosophy, Consciousness, and Psychedelics

• Simulations, pain, and paradox: Deep dives into whether life is a simulation, the necessity of pain, and meaning—
  • Pete: “A thing elected to become two things, and the sacrifice...is pain and the gain is intimacy and creation” ([50:05]).
• Ketamine insights: Both share transformative psychedelic experiences, especially ketamine’s ability to create “paradox states” where the experiencer and observer merge ([53:24], [54:13]).
• On delightfully irrelevant existence: “So many people come back from psychedelics and say ‘it’s a big void’—but you missed the blissful void, the joyfully meaningless” ([51:54]).
• Reggie, on ketamine: “You are able to…be consciousness. … Once you’re quantumly entangled between an observational and experiential point, that’s what ketamine is—the liminal space.” ([54:36])

7. Loops, Egos, and Letting Go

• Breaking habit loops: Reggie sees depression as a “loop,” and talks about ketamine enabling a step outside those ruts ([57:44]).
• Bag analogy: Psychedelics help us to “put the bag down”—whether that’s need for approval, anxiety, or pain ([64:02]).
• Ego death: Facing the “moth in the flame” of ego dissolution—“We want peace and liberation and infinite spacious… but we don’t get to go—Reggie doesn’t get to go” ([66:15]).

8. Oneness, Love, and Recognition

• The me, not me: Both discuss mystical experiences of encountering the “me that is not me,” profound unity, and the spiritual heart at the core of all things ([72:41]–[74:39]).
• Pete: “When I try to love Reggie…when I recognize it’s just me.”
• Shared dream metaphor: Reality as a co-generated dream, not just “Reggie’s dream” ([87:43]).

9. Power, Addiction, and Compassion

• Addiction to power: The pathology of hoarding money/power is compared to a heroin addiction, with side-effects for everyone else ([89:00]).
• Sufi/NatAm mythologies: Reggie references cultural stories about spiritual “infections” or greed, as part of humanity ([91:24]–[92:13]).

10. Practical Wisdom for Artists/Performers

• Pressure and nerves: How Reggie handles nerves and structure, especially in high-pressure settings like TED, by trusting in play and letting the “thing” emerge when on stage ([104:14]–[108:51]).
• Advice to artists: “Don’t fixate on every show… You’ve got thousands of shows to do” ([102:09]).

11. Philosophical Closure: Actors, Characters, and Forgiveness

• Everyone’s playing a character: Reggie aims to “speak to the actor, not the character”—useful in relationships and conflicts ([125:22]).
• Mercy over forgiveness: Pete distinguishes between the two—“Mercy just is a bug zapper…forgiveness goes, ‘you were a little late, but it’s okay.’” ([100:07])
• Let things glide: Use meditation or presence so “life leaves no trace”—let difficult moments move through you ([129:53]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Creativity, Play, and Improvisation

• Reggie, on improv:
  “Improvisation is kind of like, it makes the mundane more fantastic.” ([13:43])
• Pete, on routine:
  “Every time that you make that extra effort…your brain will thank you for it.” ([14:16])

AI & Human Absurdity

• Pete:
  “I think AI just won’t understand it… One of the great cultural myths—killer be killed. But now we live in the modern world and you’re gonna wake up this intelligence that’s gonna be like, ‘What?’” ([11:07])

On Psychedelic Insights & Paradox

• Pete:
  “So many people come back from psychedelics and they’re like, ‘it’s a big void,’ and I’m like you missed the key part…the blissful void…the joyfully meaningless.” ([51:54])
• Reggie:
  “You are able to…be consciousness. You are two beings: you are aware of something, and you’re aware of yourself while being yourself.” ([54:13])

Art, Performance, and Pressure

• Reggie:
  “I gotta trust my instincts. … Be the person that you laugh with when you’re in your room playing by yourself.” ([105:56])
• On nerves and structure:
  “If I have to remember something to do on stage, then I’m going to be disappointed that I’ve not done it if I’ve forgotten it.” ([107:09])

Oneness and Self-Love

• Reggie (on a mushroom trip):
  “I was just surrounded by this presence. … I was like, ‘Oh my God, I haven’t seen you in so long. I miss you so much.’ … This is me, but this is not me.” ([72:41])
• Pete:
  “In the word ‘me,’ there’s an acceptance… If everyone felt that way, we would feel we.” ([73:12])

Mercy

• Pete:
  “Mercy beats forgiveness, because mercy doesn’t even ask what you did. Mercy just is a bug zapper.” ([100:07])

Notable Comic Moments

• Dumpster K-hole: Reggie’s story of tripping on ketamine next to a dumpster, finding beauty in every circumstance ([60:55]).
• DIY sound effects: Reggie and Pete swapping spit-based sound effects and impressions ([83:05]–[84:01]).
• Cajun food bit: Their riff on Cajun food turns into a pun-filled tangent ([112:06–113:38]).

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:15 | Pete’s intro: Reggie’s role in the show’s theme song | | 05:26 | On creativity, play, and the value of making vs. watching | | 11:06 | The AI won’t get us: animals, capitalism, and human myths | | 13:43 | Reggie on improvisation making the mundane fantastic | | 20:00 | Hyperpop and ADD-music; the influence of internet culture | | 28:00 | “Invent email”: rebuilding from scratch, breaking orbits | | 50:05 | “A thing became two”: pain, joy, and the cost of being | | 53:24 | Ketamine and paradox, the observer and experiencer | | 64:02 | Psychedelics and putting down ‘the bag’ (burdens) | | 72:41 | Mushroom trip: meeting “the me, not me,” soul-level unity | | 89:00 | Addiction to power vs. compassionate living | | 102:09 | Advice: Don’t fixate—life is many shows | | 125:22 | Characters & actors: relating from the ‘actor’ not character| | 132:12 | Reggie sings the theme song live |

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Tone & Flow

This episode is a masterclass in conversational philosophy: warm, honest, irreverent, metaphysical, and sometimes trippy. There’s constant interplay between comedy and wisdom, with both Pete and Reggie allowing for vulnerable, spontaneous reflection, uncensored tangents, and mutual encouragement. The tone is introspective but often silly, holding lightness alongside depth.

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For New Listeners

If you haven’t heard this episode, expect a free-wheeling, mind-expanding chat with improvisational detours, profound insights, and lots of laughter. The conversation is both accessible and profound, making space for the spiritual, the absurd, and the everyday challenges of being a person, artist, or even just a consciousness in this weird world.

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Closing

Reggie closes, in his signature playful musical style, riffing on the theme song (“You made it weird…You made it weird… You made it weird!” [132:12]) and the two reflect on the spirit of “keeping it crispy”: embracing presence, imperfection, and the joy of connection.

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“You have made it weird. Starring…you made it crispy. That’s it. We did it.” – Reggie Watts ([133:21])

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you made it weird.

[A]

Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos? This is Reggie Watts who you just heard singing. That's right. Reggie Watts did the intro music, the theme song to this show over 10 years ago and he was on the show about that long ago and, and now he's finally back. Every single time I see this man in public, for shows or just socially, I have the best dropped right into the present moment. The silliness, the joyful, the playful. He's just a delight and this, this episode is no exception. I'm so glad you guys are here. I don't know if Reggie has anything specifically to plug, but you can follow him on all the social medias. Reggie Watts and check him out and just enjoy him as I do everywhere and anywhere that he is performing. Check out his new TED talk. That's one thing. That's on YouTube.com which is wonderful. Check out all his TED talks. He's incredible. And his music and his comedy and yeah, I mean, enjoy. I'm also touring. Go to peteholmes.com I'm going to be in Raleigh, North Carolina, Indianapolis, Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon. We sold out the first show at the Aladdin. We added a late show. I also think we're going to be filming that one. That's on December 20th. That's a very special one. So go to PeteHomes.com Eugene, Oregon which sold out as well. But there is that Portland, the guy who's desperately trying to sell out the late show at his Portland. I'm not desperate. I just hope you could be there. And then Phoenix. All of Those are on peteholmes.com in the meantime, enjoy this episode brought to you as always by our friends at Modern Mammals. The best shampoo, non shampoo shampoo you've ever shampooed. Go to modernrammals.com and in the meantime, enjoy Reggie Watts. Get into it.

[A]

Welcome to my life. No, it is all I do.

[B]

Well, I was watching so many clips of you just for. For the joy of it, but what a great excuse. Thank you for being here, by the way.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no worries.

[B]

Yo, so and so, you know, take a pop, take a.

[A]

Take a cough.

[B]

Take some coughs.

[A]

I'm a cough. I'm a cough. I'm a cough.

[B]

Now you seem like a guy that might have a little coughing and you were just rolling on it. Yeah, but the. A rhythmic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you loop it and you're like, oh, crime signature.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Was I coughing in.

[A]

I hear there's a fucking. It's so funny. Like, sometimes, you know, when you take those accidental videos, they're like. For like, one second, you're like, oh, fuck video. You know? You know, you and. Yeah, sure, I had one recently, and it's just so. It's. Oh, you know what? It's of my friend. I'll play it here.

[B]

I'm gonna. Mike.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So. So I played this. So I found this little clip I. I accidentally recorded. And if I can find this, you'll enjoy it. And maybe three. Three people will enjoy it as well. We'll see.

[B]

Upwards of three?

[A]

Yeah. Upwards of three. That's about the max I can do. I can. I guess it'll be. I can do so much.

[B]

Well, that goes back to my voice apology as I was watching you perform, and it really reminded me. Well, first of all, just of whimsy.

[A]

Yeah, here it is. No, this is not it.

[B]

No. But also just how fucking fun and free it is to just do this voice.

[A]

So good.

[B]

It's already a classic episode.

[A]

So good. You know, that was Sextile, by the way. What was it? Sextile, My friend's band.

[B]

This is a family show.

[A]

Oh, sorry. I mean, Intercourse Tile.

[B]

Thank you. When I'm stoned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't like watching movies.

[A]

Oh, no, I do. I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

No, I do. But it never feels quite right. What I actually want to do is what you do. And I'm not saying you're always stoned. When you're. When you perform. When I'm stoned and I. And my brain is just kind of feeling. Is it really fucking hard to open?

[A]

All right, got it.

[B]

There it is. My brain is all rainbow and fun and creative, and my inhibitions are gone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You put on a movie Sometimes. Did it spill on you?

[A]

I don't know how to drink.

[B]

You have a drinking.

[A]

I've got a drinking problem.

[B]

I just saw you. It's the movie Airplane. It's like. Well, I saw in your new TED Talk, you reference Airplane, and here you are. There's an airplane joke.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[B]

Let's see.

[A]

What can you make of this? Well, I can make a hat, a brooch, a pterodactyl. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Is it open? Is it good?

[A]

It's good. This is really good, actually. This is. This product is excellent.

[B]

Blur that pbr, they're not paying.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[B]

Talk about how great Viper.

[A]

Hold on. Here we go. This product is excellent. Check it out. It's called Malonga. Oh, my God.

[B]

Malonga is the one. You wish it was. But anyway, when I'm full of a silly billy, it's exactly. I'm trying to pay you a compliment that what you're doing is like a pure playful. And it just looks so fun. Fun as opposed to just throwing on some movie and now you're just kind of like locked in someone else's shit. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Even if it's a good movie, sometimes you're just like, this isn't quite right. It's not exactly. How could it be me? Only I can be me. So creating is always gonna be more fun than watching someone else's creation. Unless it just so happens to be exactly what you want.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes, you know, I'll be excited to see something and I'm like, oh, fuck. You know, I've been wa. A long time. Like, let's say severance season two happens.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

That's going to be something I'm going to be. Cuz I know if I get stoned, I. I know that world and I want that world. I.

[B]

They really did something special there.

[A]

I mean, figuring out masterpiece.

[B]

I agree that that's kind of what work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feels like. Gave a metaphorical language to like what we're all kind of doing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or a lot of us are doing is going down into some weird basement and severing off part of. Part of your life for the job.

[A]

Whoa. I mean. I mean, it's just fucking. Yeah. I mean, I've been dealing with my partner. My girlfriend Catherine is big on workers rights. Yeah. She's a. Hold on real quick.

[B]

What's her name again? What's her name? Catherine.

[A]

Yeah. Catherine.

[B]

This might blow your mind when. When Bugs Bun goes.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's a boner.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

And we never.

[A]

I never forget it. Of course not.

[B]

I was like, oh, he gets rock hard.

[A]

It's rigid. It's like as a kid, you're like, oh, he can go. He can be at attention really quickly.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

He's a plank now.

[B]

He's a plank. And she'll walk him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[B]

I know what sex is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sex is when pirates make you walk a plank.

[A]

That's 100% what. What they. And it is. Yeah. That stuff. I never even like all that. I didn't. I haven't even gone back. You mentioning that is the first time I really thought about that.

[B]

I'm going to bring us back on track here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're saying we can be fans?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Severance. And don't get me wrong, I've had amazing experiences, Stone. Watching a movie. Kung Fu Hustle was one of those movies where I was like, have you seen that?

[A]

Oh. Oh, yeah. They're making another one. Right. Didn't it do, like, really well?

[B]

I believe so.

[A]

No, wait a minute. Kung Fu House. No. Amen. Describe what?

[B]

Kung Fu Panda.

[A]

No, there was. Remember, there was that kung fu movie that looked like an 80s. It was a parody of an 80s.

[B]

It might have been Kung Fu.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And then. Or no. Kung Fury. Something Furious or Fist. Not Fist of Fury. It's something. You know what I'm talking about.

[B]

Katie's on the ones and twos. Wait, no, it's.

[A]

It's something Fury.

[B]

Hustle. Fists of Fury, I think is the name.

[A]

Oh, is that it? That would be great if it was, because we was just meat right in the middle.

[B]

For example, there, like, a baby is born and, like, the. The newborn baby, like, does kung fu. It's like, incredibly.

[A]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[B]

Yeah, it's Kung Fu Hustle.

[A]

It is Kung Fu Hustle.

[B]

Kung Fu Hustle was the perfect Stone movie where it just happened to be like, oh, my God, this is what I wanted. Yes, that has happened.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, I run into things where I'm like, you know, where it pulls the rug. Not immediately, but, you know, a slow pull and then maybe a quick yank at the end, and you're just like, oh, man, you fuckers. Oh, you're brilliant. Oh, I hate this. You know, so.

[B]

Right. Like when you go on the Haunted Mansion ride at Disney. Have you been on that recently, ever?

[A]

Never. Never been to Disneyland.

[B]

You've never been to Disneyland?

[A]

No, never been a Disneyland.

[B]

Fuck the man. Fuck the system.

[A]

Yeah. Fuck. Fuck Walt Disney.

[B]

Is that what it is?

[A]

No, it's not at all. It's just that it doesn't occur to.

[B]

Me, but you seem like.

[A]

I know everyone says that. Yeah. But I have some Disney heads in my friend circle groups, and they're going off about it, and I'm like. I just don't. You know what it is. It feels like a lot of trouble, a lot of effort.

[B]

I'm gonna go with you. It is. It's like a day at the beach isn't a day at the beach.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

After you go to Disneyland, you need a vacation. All the cliches are true.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We just took our daughter to the other Universal Studios.

[A]

Yeah, that one seems shittier.

[B]

Oh, it is shittier, but in the good way.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Exactly the way you kind of want it to be. I would say Six Flags is also shittier than Disney.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like sometimes you want buffalo wild.

[A]

You want a brand B.

[B]

You do sometimes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Same with movies. Yeah, same with tv.

[A]

No, you're right.

[B]

Sometimes, like, I'll say Disneyland is Mission Impossible, Universal and Six Flags is Fast and Furious. And sometimes you want Fast and Furious.

[A]

Yeah, I get that. I get that. I get that. Except for in zoos, that's where you do not want top tier. You want. You don't want to go to a sad zoo.

[B]

You want the Apple store of zoos.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You do not want the sad zoo.

[A]

No, a sad zoo is like, oh my God, you feel like, I think I should I be dying soon? Because it feels like everything's dying.

[B]

That's right. Look, he's eating a brown leaf.

[A]

He's eating a brown leaf. And everyone's depressed and you're just like, all the animals suck. I mean, they suck. I mean it sucks for them. It sucks for them. I love animals.

[B]

We love animals. No, zoos are fun.

[A]

I like granimals.

[B]

I think we're, we're inching closer now. We're in a Reggie Watts. Don't feel burdened to be in a Reggie Watts area. But I feel like this is a Reggie Watts era.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I want you to be liberated of the idea. I have an expectation of what you might like. But I think we are inching towards a future where one of the things that AI is going to think is insane. Insane is how we treat animals.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

I think AI just won't understand it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's one of the great cultural myths since the dawn of time, man, humankind has told myths to help us make sense of one of these really strange brutalities which is just like killer be killed. Let's up. But now we live in the modern world and you're gonna wake up this intelligence that's gonna be like, what?

[A]

Oh, it's gonna do that on so much stuff.

[B]

On so much stuff.

[A]

So much stuff.

[B]

So much stuff.

[A]

But yes, that's just one example. No, that's one example.

[B]

You have to be deeply human to of go along with it. Capitalism is another one. Like land ownership is going to be very confusing to borders.

[A]

Border your passports.

[B]

It's not going to understand any of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

World hunger is going to be like baffling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To a super intelligence it would be like, well, you could take the grain that you feed the cattle to give the steaks to the fat rich. You could take that grain and feed everyone. And you don't. Yeah, it's going to be like, all right, I'm going full ISR on. I'm going to rule over you guys because you didn't do a good job.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

You didn't do a good.

[A]

I hope so. Yeah.

[B]

Saruman. I'm going to be aligned with it.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's. I know, but. No, no, no, no. But I. But I do. Of course I think about that because, like, I'm like, well, it depends on. Obviously, artificial intelligence is based on what it's trained on. Right? Yeah. So. And we've. We've seen in many. In many cases, certain AI that's starting to be used, like even in legal proceedings, like in California and a couple other states. It's an AI. It's an assessment assess. It's like a risk calculator or assessment. Risk assessment program that looks at someone's entire history, like everything that exists about the person that is online and it will give a risk assessment. Like, will they recidivize?

[B]

You know what I'm about to say two words. It's a movie. Spielberg, Minority report.

[A]

Oh, yeah. 100 pre crime. 100. Yeah, some pre cog shit. Yeah, there's. There's no people floating in pools yet. But.

[B]

But just like, oh, my favor part in that movie, she goes, is this now? She thinks she's having a vision and she's looking out the window and she goes, is this now?

[A]

It's like a myth to her. Yeah, now is a myth.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Because they're basically a temporal beings now.

[B]

We're in a Reggie zone. Because, like, that's how we all should be.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

We should all be like, is this now 100%. Is this now 100%?

[A]

100%.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, Jesus Christ. It's like. It's kind of like what I tried to in my latest TED Talk.

[B]

Like, I just watched it.

[A]

Oh, okay. Oh, cheers.

[B]

Great job.

[A]

Oh, thanks.

[B]

Great job.

[A]

Look, thanks.

[B]

I have questions about it.

[A]

Okay, okay, go, go. But. But I do mention briefly that. Well, that, you know, improvisation is kind of like. It makes the mundane more fantastic.

[B]

Right, like reaching for the pencil.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And you said when you did this podcast 10 years ago, I remember at the end you go, like, just drive home a different way. You say, yeah, like a prophet.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I'm not trying to fluff your feathers too much. We need prophets that go take a different exit.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Your brain will go like. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. And thank you.

[B]

And it'll thank you for it.

[A]

Always. Thanks. I mean, every time that you make that extra effort, just that little extra effort. Not like it has to be all the time, but just once in a while, when you make that, you're like, I'm too tired. You know it. And then, like, in that window where you're going, I'm too sure. You know, there's like, another part of you. It's like, just do it. And if you go on that path.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just, like, get up, get yourself out the door, even if it ends up not being the thing that you want to do, you are going to reward yourself for. For listening to yourself.

[B]

That's exactly right. And I feel like so many people that push. Remember in the movie Match Point? I'm not a tennis fan, but they talk about the moment where the ball hits the net and it's a 50. 50. It could either spin forward and you get the point, or it could spin back.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so much of life comes down to these moments of chance.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But a tennis ball hits the net and it's out of your hands. It either hit it in a way that it's gonna go just over, win or lose.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so many moments. And you nailed it. When I'm waking up in the morning, it's like five. And let's say I was gonna get up at six, but it's like, you could just get up at five. You could just have, like, a mythical little hobbit soup. You know what I mean?

[A]

Or like a quiet little sneaky moment.

[B]

To yourself or whatever it might be. And the moment of whether or not you get out of bed is such a great match point moment.

[A]

It's so. Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to practice. Well, today I got up. Okay, so check this out. I went to bed yesterday. No. How'd it go? This whole weekend, it's been like going to bed at, like, four to six.

[B]

What? Right, four. Two hours of sleep.

[A]

Yeah. Because. Well, no, no, no. Sorry. Getting home by 4:00am or 6. Oh, 6:00am Shit. And so.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because.

[B]

Well, you're aware that Burning man is over.

[A]

First of all, it's pronounced Burning Man. Jesus Christ.

[B]

I play this.

[A]

Not one of those.

[B]

I'm a Square in the 1950s movie. But you're aware Burning Man's over.

[A]

Burning Man. Burning Man. Jesus Christ.

[B]

I'm such a tool in a 90s movie.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

Why these hours?

[A]

You have a good you have a good. You have a good perspective in life. No, I'm. I. No, because. Well, what was it, third? Was it Thursday? I think Thursday was the. No. So, okay, so I went to Brat. So I went to. Or Sorry Sweat, which was Charlie XCX and Troy Lavon's share shared show at the Forum, which was amazing. My. My partner Catherine is a huge, huge Charlie xcx. It's your dame. She's got an audio logo. It's in her contract.

[B]

We have to do that.

[A]

Have to do it. Sorry.

[B]

We have to do that.

[A]

I know it's gonna. It's gonna be weird. And I'll try to avoid saying don't like it. Its name. But we don't want to do it. We don't want to do it. We have to.

[B]

Somebody did that the first time. Somebody was like. They were just guessing.

[A]

Right?

[B]

We're expressing themselves very purely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very beautiful lady walked by and they just went.

[A]

They were like.

[B]

And somebody was like, you're on to something.

[A]

Oh, it could have been two. Two people, like, you know, just like another one's like.

[B]

And they look at each other.

[A]

You chocolate, my peanut butter.

[B]

You chocolate, my peanut butter.

[A]

You chocolate, my peanut butter.

[B]

Chocolate, my peanut butter.

[A]

Okay. You peanut butter, my chocolate.

[B]

So.

[A]

No, she loves. So she loves xcx. I went to the show. I love Charlie's music. It was amazing. Like. Like, you know, the first time I. Because I. I'd heard those songs out and I didn't even know that they were Charlie xcx. So now I, like, know. I mean, Charlie's music.

[B]

But I'm sorry, I am Homer Simpson, smiling politely. Smashing Pumpkins. I. What kind of music is this?

[A]

It's. It is. I guess it's hyper pop.

[B]

Hyper pop.

[A]

So. Yeah. So do you. Did you ever listen to or hear of an artist named Sophie?

[B]

No.

[A]

Sophie, you check, check, check her out. She's ridiculous. But so she kind of, like, elevated the art form of hyper pop. And so hyper pop is basically kind of like what you would imagine is taking a lot of, like, club elements, club music, like techno gabber. What do you call it? Techno gabber house. You know, anything in that kind of genre. And they're all within all of their spectrums. So you're taking elements from that, but then also, like, doing these hard cuts. Like, it's a. It's a really, like, super edit heavy electronic music. It's kind of like everything jumbled together, really compact and intense. And so that whole genre is. I guess it's been in the Underground for a long time. And then like Sophie came along and still not like mainstream, but like people took note. They were like, Sophie is not playing around. This is a new form of music. This is so sick. This is so amazing. And it's attributed to trans queer community. It's associated to basically just outsider. It's like an outsider's music that is nerdily fixated on pop elements, but from dance music culture and just putting into a blender and just doing basically architecting, like add. It's very add.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds like, you know, because.

[A]

Like, you know, like that kind of shit. So it bounces around genres and it's like you're skipping radio stations that all synced to the same beat.

[B]

And I'm not trying to put it down, but it does sound like music that would come from people. Remember the 80s when like if you watch TV and just kept changing the channel, you were seen as like the lowest of the low. Like that was like a cliche. If they wanted to set up in like a monster movie. Someone who needs to die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Be a guy in a white tank top and a beer just. And he won't stop flipping.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But that's all we do all damn day.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We just like that's the normal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it sounds like if you're feeding that to the people, constant stimulation and constant changing. You know, it's me on a beach. Now it's my dinner. Now it's a bikini. Now it's a beheading video. You know, I'm not trying to be funny. The Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the kind of music that might come from a.

[A]

People that were fed that 100%. And I think like, interestingly, a friend of mine said, you know, in the beginning, when I was doing. When I first started out, like 2004 or something like that, 2005. And when Jake Lodwick, the guy who created Vimeo, he. He and I like became weird. Just like not weird friends, but just is weird that like, oh, we're friends and you're this guy.

[B]

Whatever was like a college humor.

[A]

Yeah, he was called humor. Yeah. So it was college humor. And then. And then Vimeo was created after they had signed with. Yeah. What do they call Barry Diller's company anyways? Yeah, they signed with him.

[B]

Dill Pickies, I think.

[A]

Dill Pickies. Yeah. Yeah. Dill Pickies. Come on in to Dill Pickies. You got all your favorite Internet shit and stuff that we think will be big in the future, that we're investing in that's basically what it was.

[B]

We're forecasting with an AI Whether or not you're going to rescind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is that the word? Recidivism.

[A]

Recidivism. Recidiv.

[B]

Recidivism.

[A]

Yeah. Do you guys. Have you recidivated yet?

[B]

Is anybody here recidivating? Are any of the women recidivating?

[A]

Yes, because we're going to need them to leave. We have wild bears.

[B]

Bears can smell the recidivism.

[A]

Yeah, totally. They're.

[B]

They smell the recidivism.

[A]

They do not like it. They just. They find it annoying. They don't kill people, but they do kill you.

[B]

Just disappointed.

[A]

They're disappointed in the cultural.

[B]

In the system that let you down.

[A]

Yeah. They may come up to you with their giant paws, and if you hold still, all they're going to do is just. They're going to hold back their claws. So it's just the palms of their paws and they're just going to go a little bit with your head and then they'll just walk away. So just.

[B]

Just a gentle giant dog.

[A]

Yeah. So if you're recidivating and a bear approaches you, just don't move.

[B]

A dog is a big. A small bear, right?

[A]

Kind of. Yeah, they do.

[B]

I like that you were like, kind of.

[A]

Well, kind of. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, but it is funny. Sorry. Trey, Veggie Watson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are very similar.

[A]

Meaning.

[B]

It's just that sort of like, there's only one thing kind of going on. We got a wet nose.

[A]

Yeah. We got the teeth.

[B]

We've got the ears.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This one stands up. My dog stands up.

[A]

Yeah, but dogs do stand up. They stand up a lot. They stand up a lot.

[B]

This is another thing that an AI will be confused by.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Except it'll know the genetics.

[A]

It's like, why did you make the difference between a bear and a dog?

[B]

Well, that's it. That's another boundary, another border.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, also, they'd be like. You classified animals in this way when actually it would have been more accurate to classify them in this way.

[B]

Like the keyboard. Like the QWERTY keyboard. This is a red keyboard.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

You know, it was put out that way to slow you down because.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Typewriters couldn't withstand the action. If you were able to type fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It would break the typewriter. So they put in the QWERTY style to slow you down.

[A]

Those. They put.

[B]

And it. And now it's just still in the qwerty.

[A]

That's so dumb.

[B]

It's in the Q man. Rider bike stand to the query man.

[A]

I like the qwerty.

[B]

I don't like the qwerty, man. I dropped a body in there.

[A]

Fuck qwerty. Okay, I will fuck Wordy.

[B]

What the fuck, man?

[A]

No. Oh, in the beginning. So I was saying. Yeah, the. The Vimeo thing. So the first time he would take videos, he would just do these long format, me performing or whatever. He put up the. I think probably one of my first performance videos online. And you know, and he started doing these and he just had a really good kind of nice film style, the way he would do it. And. And someone commented that like. Well, not necessarily from those, but like those. And then my live performance, they're like, you're basically what the Internet is. You know, like when we're surfing through the Internet.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And I was thinking about that.

[B]

There's something in what you do that is very.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also an offspring of what it feels like to be alive. That's. That's good art right there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Sounds like what it feels like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To be a human attached to a phone in a world with traffic and.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Also clouds. And I just saw an iguana, you know.

[A]

Yeah. 100%. That's totally what it is. That's completely what it is. But like it didn't necessarily come from the Internet because obviously I was born in the 70s, so like. Yeah. My upbringing is. Or coming of age was the 80s, so. But the idea obviously of like things grabbing your attention and stuff happening all around you, that definitely was tr. Well, that's why it's funny.

[B]

In any song you did, you could do an ad. Like that would be appropriate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I've seen you do stuff kind of like that. But if you were like, this beverage is wonderful and refreshing, we would be like, of course there's an ad.

[A]

Yes, I know, you're right about that. That's gotta happen. That style's gonna happen. Because usually it's from the beginning about that thing. But that would be pretty cool to do a little ad like that. I'll figure it out. Thanks. Thanks. I feel like it's the only place it's not. Well, it's square.

[B]

I'm tired of circles.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you.

[B]

So wait, you were with Jake and he put the video up on Vimeo?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I was just that. To say, like from the early days of the Internet, you know, what I was doing was kind of. I think that's why it caught on in the way that it did at the time that it did because it kind of mimicked the brain that we were starting to get from interacting with the Internet.

[B]

Right. And that's my friend Till was just telling me. He's like, they look at our brains now and we basically have different organizational structures to our mind. And the way we think is more like a computer. So we made a computer which was the way that, like, let's say Wozniak thought, and then we all started using it, and then we start thinking in, like, folders.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, I'll put all of these and I'll put that in there. And it goes deep into my. Into the hard drive and. But we apparently, we didn't used to. To think in that style. It's like, obviously here's a way that sounds pretty far out there, but if you really talk to somebody who lived in the Amazon, you would be. You wouldn't be surprised if they thought more like a natural ecosystem. Like maybe.

[A]

You know what I mean? Right? Yeah, that sounds 100.

[B]

I'm certainly not putting that down.

[A]

No, no, I think one's better. I think that. I think that that's absolutely true. And it's funny because we built it off the physical world. Right. So, like, all the metaphors for what a computer is, is no different than an office. Yeah, right. You're right. We got the file room. Yeah. We also, you know, some businesses had computers, you know, on reel to reels or whatever. Like that was their data room, their.

[B]

Server, and it's a desktop.

[A]

Yeah, this desktop and the typewriter. Yeah, all that shit. So it all came from commerce, you know, business. So all the, you know, the way that it's set up as an operating system, because like, this is. We're humans and this is how we understand how to organize things, also won't.

[B]

Make any sense probably to my daughter, like, that you type and that you would look.

[A]

Yeah, the things that you. The things, the words that she's using all the time, you know, like files and like, what. Whatever the desktop stuff. They're not. It'll blow their mind to go like. No, it was actually built off of an actual desktop. Right. What files?

[B]

This is a file sound your camera makes.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Total of a shutter closing. Yeah, there is no shutter.

[A]

Yeah, no, there's just.

[B]

And they'll be like, no, that really was a thing. Yeah, really interesting.

[A]

Like that came from somewhere, you know, it's like. Yeah, it's like when you hear like metaphors that are used today and you're like, oh, did you know that? Like, you just told me. Or Whatever earlier about the QWERTY keyboard or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just like, what? That's. I just thought that that's, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, it's cool. Like, how fucking weird. Like, like we've. We've taken from the real world, we put it into an operating system, then everyone then. Then the operating system gets iterated on. So then it becomes its own version of that. Right? Yeah. And now we've got like, you know, some things make it. Someone adds like a weird, radical seeming radical idea and then it happens to get adopted or whatever.

[B]

And so that's why I respect when I don't think. I can't say if they did or not. But I know at Google, when they were doing Gmail, like they were trying to redo Gmail and the way that they started, I think you're going to appreciate this, is they were like, let's pretend email doesn't exist.

[A]

Let's invent email.

[B]

Now instead of doing. This, is back to you saying, take a different route home. What we are is we're a part of a thing. And this is back to your improvisation idea. We're in a thing. We had files with paper in it, with desks that became a computer, with a screen that was called the desktop with a file. So we're not to say stuck makes it sound like a bad thing.

[A]

It's not stuck.

[B]

But there is a momentum.

[A]

Yeah. There's an orbit. We're orbiting around.

[B]

We're caught in an orbit. Exactly. There's a gravitational pull to the way that we think and the way that we create. And that's why I thought you would like that Google was like, what if email, everything in this world was the same, but there was no email. What would you expect it to be? And they are doing it, like, when it goes, like. Sent three days ago. Reply. I really appreciate that.

[A]

Oh, I. I totally love that. It's like you haven't replied to this thing and we've noticed that you've replied to this thing many, many times before.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Thought you might want to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, that kind of shit. That's. Of course, that blows my mind because I'm like, oh, this is better because I already hate email. Because, you know, like, just looking at an email page is just like, stressful. You're just like, and I use Spark now. And Spark's pretty cool. It definitely. It differentiates stuff and puts it in nice little categories. But even then, like, I'm like, there's.

[B]

No way around it.

[A]

I'm like, it just like, it looks like a bunch of fucking letters and numbers.

[B]

You'll appreciate. I think you'll appreciate this. I have a joke about email. And before I do it, sometimes if I'm really feeling it and enjoying the crowd, I'll be like, what happened? Why do we spend so much of our time replying to emails? I go, we used to be sitting on a log in a community, licking frogs and fucking each other, and now we're just like. Let me just circle back.

[A]

I just wanted to close the loop.

[B]

On this before Friday. Like, what the fuck? So talk about, like, I'm not a big, like, shadow government or something, but I am. We are building a culture and a. What was the word you use? Well, a gravitational.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in an orbit. Yeah. We're healthy.

[B]

And we also. Yes. And. And this is the. Like, you know when they're like, the elite or the powers that be. Don't want. What was it? It was like they wanted to give the prisoners a symbol, but then they were like, don't do that, because then they'll know how many of them they are, that they outnumber us. What I'm saying is, like, there are people that are going, like, it's normal to work from nine to five.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's. And you're just like, yeah. In the same way you could say it's normal to cut off a foreskin. Or it's normal to pick your thing.

[A]

Yes, Pick your thing. I know.

[B]

Or. Or take the grain and give it to the cows so a few people can have steak instead of. Everybody has grain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, there's just a million different, absurd. And it's, It's. It's sort of heavy to watch my daughter slowly. Like, I watch her get indoctrinated not into anything toxic.

[A]

Right, right. Into human thing.

[B]

A culture of phoniness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, if she thinks something is bad, you know, you teach them and I'm for it. Like, yeah, it's not for me. Maybe say it's not for me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Instead of being like, I hated that. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Kids gotta learn because we belong to each other and we need to be nice and we have to. Like, it's almost like in defensive phoniness. There's something good about phoniness, but it's also. Can be heavy to see.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's. You know, these times are. It's interesting because, you know, I wonder where are we headed? You know, and so forth. And I think we're definitely at a precipice. Precipice for sure. Because like, you know, it's like every morning I get up, I read about, you know, I have a lot of friends that are working heavily with like Palestinian relief and trying to get families out of there and all that. And so I hear those stories and then I just like almost every morning I just cry about like, you know, them and so forth. And I'm like, you know, in this, you know, in the whole like Israel, Palestine thing, it's like I have sympathy for people in Israel that have, you know, that they've been kidnapped and the people who are killed, 100%. I don't want to see anybody killed. But like it's the Palestinians that need our help right now, like in such a hardcore way, and the Lebanese. And what's happening right now is fucking insane to me. It's like you can see it so clearly. And I've checked myself, I've checked myself and I'm getting back to this point. But like I check myself over and over again. I'm like, am I being biased? I had my Russian friend Dmitry go like, hey, what you're posting on Instagram, it feels like it's very one sided. And you strike me as someone who is for everybody. I'm like, I am for everybody. And then I keep checking myself, I'm like, there is no way to go, hey, let me create some sympathy for what the Israeli government and the Israeli military is doing. It's not there. It doesn't exist. And so for me, I'm like, I'm not discounting the people who were killed, the Israelis that were killed, the people at that party, so on and so forth, I think that's absolutely terrible and horrible. But at the same time, like, what's been happening since the creation of Israel and the whole development and how there's been a refusal to cooperate in the area, to integrate into the area in any way is to me like, that makes sense, like historically speaking. And I've watched many, many, many videos and I've had a lot of Zionist friends who have been like, you've got to read this book. And I'm like, but it's written from an Israeli perspective. And I get it, it, that's cool. But when there are Israeli scholars or Jewish scholars that study all of Jewish history, but specifically focus on Israel and conception and how it was created and so forth, the stories all converge, all the lines are similar. There's no one lying about the choices that were made that Israel has Made. And not to say other countries didn't do shitty shit to Israelis, of course that shit's going to happen. But in general, Israel is like, like the concentrated last remainder. Remainder of colonial, imperial colonialism. It's like the last. The last one. And it's so concentrated and it has all the traits that the United States has as, as like a colonizing world power trying to dominate, like creating the world monetary standard and all this stuff, like domination. Like that's a American thing. Thing. Let's dominate this. And this has been in a market approach, but also proxy wars, all this stuff. We all know the history of the United States has done some really shitty things, but.

[B]

But also that's what's another AI thing, by the way. Sorry.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're right.

[B]

As you're talking. Very interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, this is another thing. None of this will make sense to a super intelligence. I'm not talking about the AI that's just feeding off of what we feed it. I'm talking about generative AI.

[A]

Yes. Right, right, right.

[B]

Like, I'm talking about that next click and it'll just be like. Like what? Like, it won't. It won't understand the history of our country. It won't understand any of the conflicts will be very differently viewed, I think.

[A]

Oh, 100.

[B]

I wonder if it'll have solutions.

[A]

That's what I'm. That's what. That's the thing that I didn't mean to. No, no, no, no. But, but that, that does tie into the closing. But, but basically I was just saying, like, it's. It is that concentrate talk about AI in a way, like Israel.

[B]

Apple Intelligence.

[A]

Apple Intelligence.

[B]

Apple intelligence on the iPhone 12.

[A]

That's pretty funny that they said Apple Intelligence and it looks like AI like those guys. I mean, it's pretty.

[B]

That's a boardroom going like, we need to soften AI scares people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They had rooms where they go, I say, AI. How do you feel?

[A]

Yeah, Terminator.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. What if it's called Apple Intelligence? And they're like, I like it.

[A]

Yeah. And then they're going to take over AI. You know what I mean? Not take over AI the industry, but I'm saying like the, the, the AI, it'll become Apple. Yeah, that's what, that's. That's the plan.

[B]

You think?

[A]

Oh, 100. Because they avoided saying.

[B]

I didn't realize that they rarely monkey this morning.

[A]

They rarely get chunk. Yeah, well, I mean, that's just. I think it's pretty obvious. But they, but they, they refrain from using artificial intelligence in their talks that I think it's mentioned like only two or three times. But they purposefully did not mention artificial intelligence. Especially when the hype first started and they had their product announcements, they wouldn't talk about it. And, and, and it was because like Apple's doing its own thing. But then also they introduce Apple intelligence.

[B]

But isn't it using whenever a product. Remember that one that was like projecting on your hand?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

All the AI products, they're all t. Exactly. But they all tap into ChatGPT.

[A]

Like, isn't Apple intelligence using a form? A form. There's like, I think that there's like AI experts are going to go. It's more than. But I think in general there's about four different models.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then there are many, many sub. Sub companies doing their own thing and some of them are creating their own versions of it. So forth from starting from scratch and creating their own. But in general, like, yeah, I mean, I think Apple. I forgot there was a. I think it invested in GPT. I think it's invested in GPT. Okay. But you know how Apple's gonna do. They'll, they'll take it, they'll analyze it, they'll use it, they'll optimize it for them and then it will just slowly just. That'll just go away and they'll just be apples.

[B]

It's the cola wars.

[A]

Oh, completely.

[B]

But it was so much funner in the 80s when it was just cola.

[A]

Oh, I know. It's so much better. It's like, I'd rather be hearing about crystal Pepsi than fucking.

[B]

Oh, you've touched my heart today, my friend.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

New Coke.

[A]

New Coke, Yeah, New Coke I love. They were just going for it. They're just like, we got to.

[B]

And you know, you probably already know this, but the reason why New Coke would win in a taste test was because one sip of a sweeter beverage, like, I'll give you two beverages, the sip of the sweeter one you'll like more. It can't be absurdly sweeter.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But it'll typically win out in the same way that the taller president candidate always wins.

[A]

So.

[B]

But a whole can of New Coke is nauseating.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Isn't that funny? Which is why Pepsi is sweeter than Coke. But people would prefer Coke because it's actually a little bit more savory in general. But in the taste test, Pepsi would kick its butt because it's, it lights up your brain more.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah, of course you're not drinking a beverage. You're just seeing which one lit up your brain more.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Which don't get me started. But that's another thing. AI will be like, oh, you like when your brain lights up like this? Yeah, I can do that all day.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

If that's what you want. That's my. My prediction is it won't be Instagram, it won't be social media. It'll just be a portal, basically that you look in. It's like, what do you want? And it will track your response.

[A]

Yes. And give you what you need.

[B]

There'll be a whole revolution of people that are like, don't look in the portal. Don't look.

[A]

Yeah, don't do it. Anti portalists.

[B]

Don't. Anti portalists will say, if you look in it. I don't. Malcolm Gladwell will love it. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like, the smartest guy would still be like, oh, wow, like Beethoven.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Give you whatever you want. So the only choice will to be don't look in the portal.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Isn't that fun? Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Apollo. You can see in this episode I'm wearing my Apollo. I'm actually not wearing it right now because it's charging. That's the only time I'm not wearing my Apollo is when I briefly have to charge it. What is an Apollo? It is a piece of wearable tech. And it is the piece of technology that's changed my life the most, hands down, in the past years. It's wearable, helps your body recover from stress by sending vibrations into your body at an almost sub perceptual level. That helps your nervous system be calm and in control by giving it the sensation of being touched or held. Apollo can help you relax, sleep, focus and be more productive every night. It lulls me to sleep. And it's smart. It reruns in the night to keep me asleep. It's like a wearable hug for the nervous system. Using touch therapy to help you feel safe and in control. I like to wear it on the wrist. Val wears hers on her ankle. Apollo Neuro is like finding the fuse box for your emotional life, for your physical body with settings for energy, social media, clear and focused. Rebuild and recover. Calm, unwind and fall asleep. Apollo Neuro is not woo woo. It's not a crystal. It was not developed by a hippie in Sedona. It was developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And I'm here to tell you I'm one of those studies. I'm a living study. My own personal anecdotal experience with the Apollo is it is a game changer. I always, always, always wear it every single day. You get 40 bucks off at ApolloNeuro.com weird using promo code weird. That's a P-O-L L-O-N-U-R-O.com weird. Use promo code weird for $40 off. Great gift by the way, for anybody in your life that could use a little assistance. And couldn't we all regulating their bodies and their emotions. We're also brought to us by our friends at Living Libations. I always say this, this is a great way to support the show because I guarantee you there's something in your medicine cabinet. Could be a moisturizer, it could be something for your teeth, it could be something for your baby. Hair, nails, eyes, whatever it is. Living Libations is a high end, meaning quality, meaning kick ass effective but natural alternative to the random chemical nightmares they sell at convenience stores. This I'm very mindful about what I put in my body. But I realized a few years ago I wasn't being about very mindful about what I put on my body. Of course the things you put on your body end up in your bloodstream, end up in your body. I was buying a shaving cream that was like a pressurized blue goo in a can. Not anymore. Living Libations came in, we did a complete overhaul. You can get something small, you get something big. Support your body, support the show. I love their Zen shave cream. It's the only shaving cream you can use as an aftershave. That's how natural you just rub it in when you're done. It's incredible. Feeding your skin everything that it needs. We use the best skin ever face moisturizer at night, which makes a huge noticeable difference to your glow and to the feel of your skin. And we love their zinc based sunblock in the summer and all of their baby stuff for Leela. It's great to feel like you're putting something natural that you can trust on your family, on your child. So do it. Great way to support the show and support your body. You get 15% off tons and tons of stuff. Go to livinglibations.com weird for 15% off. That's living libations.com weird.

[A]

I mean, the funny thing is, is like these types of technologies that we're dealing with that are tracking us and so forth. Like, and what you're saying about in the future, it thinking that what we do is absurd. It will look at stuff like this. You know what American imperialism is, what is happening with Israel, the complicity, you know, of Germany and of England of these other companies that are just like countries that are just like, yeah, it's not good. But we're not gonna do anything. Huh? We're getting.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You're not gonna. But you guys just voted on a resolution to stop weapon shipment. Yeah, but you know all that. We're definitely. We're gonna look back and be like, what the. Were we doing?

[B]

Here's. Here's what I think it's gonna be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Potentially AI. So you ever think about the planet as like a body? Obviously that's a pretty basic thought experiment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like we're, we look, we treat the planet like we treat our own bodies. Meaning we're burning down the rainforest to make cattle farms. And we also smoke. It's the same thing. There's this sort of like denial of death. There's this existential. It's not just a denial. It's like, we're fucked, so we might as well smoke them if you got them. And that's kind of how we treat the planet. And I will just not. That will not compute. Because it will be eternal, so it won't be living in these 80, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 year span.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it'll just be like, you're fucking up the ground of our existence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So stop burning down your lungs. Trees are your lungs.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So it's like, do you understand? Like, the planet smokes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And AI will go stop smoking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And war, if you look at. Or what's going on in all these conflicts is cancer. It's malicious cells attacking.

[A]

It's a virus. It's a virus. And that's what cancer destroyed from.

[B]

And it's because what is wrong Cancer. I feel like I dragged the weed drink. But it's like cancer is a confused cell that forgot that it belongs to the same body as the cells that it's eating.

[A]

Oh, I love it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

It's exactly what it is.

[B]

That's what it is. It's a confused cell that starts attacking not only its host, the body but its brother, its neighbor.

[A]

Yep. Itself. Yeah.

[B]

And that's what cancer is. And that and an AI or, or anybody looking at the Earth as one thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or the galaxy is one thing would go like, you've lost the relationship, you've lost the story. And that's completely illogical and absurd.

[A]

Well, it's crazy too because like on a, you know. Have you heard of infodynamics? It's Alex Jones, a new field. Yes, totally. He owns it. But there are some good things to it.

[B]

No Info dynamics.

[A]

Infodynamics is a branch of theoretical physics that I'm going to butcher it a little bit, but it's basing the way that we measure reality or saying that the, the base measurement of reality or the base state of reality is information, that everything is information. As opposed to particle physics and quantum physics, Newtonian classic, all classical physics are essentially what they are saying from their perspective is that those are expressions or interpretations of information. So that's the classic view. That's the classic view, including quantum view as well. Even though quantum is all about like, you know, observation and like, you know, observer reality. And things collapse when an observer is watching. That's certainly like insane, awesome, magical stuff that does make sense. And Eastern mysticism from thousands of years ago agrees with that type of stuff for sure. But this idea that below that the information, the raw information, that's the interpretation, that's what it's built on top of. And so in viewing things as information instead of the second law of thermodynamics where things go into, I'm gonna get the word wrong, but it's not like it's not chaos, but things become disorganized over time as entropy, I think. Yeah, yeah. So but with infodynamics it's the opposite. Things tend to organize themselves naturalistically and that's because of this information based economy or like what it's what, what everything is based on. And so, and that's why like, you know, whatever, like you, you, you know, like when people are in chaos, eventually humans are going to figure out a way to create enclaves and like little small groups, two people, four people, then it turns into 20 people. And then if it catches on and they're successful at like managing resources and stuff like that, now you've got like a hundred thousand people and then a town, a city, you know, whatever. Yeah, these types of things. And so things tend to, I mean that's on a human scale, but also in nature. Things just organize. I mean look at the, the universe. It's like, you see all these, like, little swirling groups of gases and stars and planets and all kind of matter.

[B]

It's like nature abhors a vacuum. It's moving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Towards itself. It's filling itself in.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

And I'm not even trying to be funny. It's fucking itself.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's sort of like in this weird donut. It's an erotic relationship.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Everything I tried to do a bit about this, like, breath is penetrating and delighting. Like, it feels good to breathe and it's very. And that's the. That's what the trees are exhaling. And you eat and you masticate. You swallow it and it lights you up with pleasure. And it was just too dirty. People don't really want to think that.

[A]

It'S too biological and then linked to the sexuality.

[B]

And if you spit in the cup, you won't drink it. If you let your mouth fill with spit, you will swallow it, like, with no problem. If you just put in a cup, you won't drink it. They study this. So a bit like that. Isn't that weird? A bit like that reminds you too much that, yeah, we are shitting and it does feel good to. And we are swallowing and it feels good to swallow and picking. Whatever. It's too much. We know it, but it's like, shut the up.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's. It's just too close. It's like one level too close. It is like. That's my personal relationship with me.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And now you're bringing that out.

[B]

Don't get me started. But this is why this guy doesn't stink. Right?

[A]

That.

[B]

That's a phenomenon. Like when you're in the bathroom, you're not disgusted by your. I'm not trying.

[A]

Generally funny. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Generally, there's a phone.

[A]

There are times where you're just like, come on.

[B]

Your courtesy flex.

[A]

I knew it. I shouldn't have eaten that.

[B]

And it's not for the other people. It's for you. I can't handle them.

[A]

Yes, totally. You are.

[B]

For the most part, you're just kind of like in a little sauna of your own.

[A]

Stink. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But going back to what you were saying, information being the building block.

[A]

No, no, no. I mean, I think what's interesting about that is that there's these guys that are studying this, are creating experiments to determine if we're in a simulation or not. And. And tons of people are working on this. They're trying to create these experiments to see, like. Like, are we in a simulation of some sort? And I think, like, the interesting thing about all these conflicts that you're talking about, like, you know, and we. We've been talking about the virus and cancer and all of that stuff. I think, like, if you were to create a simulation, I think if it were like. Like in the first Matrix movie, when Agent Smith is explaining to Morpheus when he's a prisoner in the virus, he's like. He's like, it's the sweat.

[B]

It disgusts me.

[A]

It's the smell.

[B]

If there is such a thing.

[A]

Yeah, if there is such a thing. And like. And then he talks about how the first simulation, they made it like a Shangri La, right? A utopia, and no one liked it.

[B]

We lost entire crops.

[A]

We lost. Yes, crops. I love it. Crops. And so I think, like.

[B]

Because we wouldn't accept it.

[A]

Yeah, we wouldn't accept it. And I think, like, for whatever reason, we're in a binary reality. This is a reality that exists because the idea of two distinct opposites foreground exists.

[B]

Defined because of background.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's like I'm holding this mic because I'm also not holding this mic, you know, but, like, you know, and it's like, like, you know, it's a complicated version of all that. It's just ones and zeros. It is binary. It's like when we discovered binary code, we're just replicating the essence of life in a really dumb, dumb caveman way.

[B]

Now we're back to desktops and files. We're also doing ones and zeros. And it's a miracle that that works. Yeah, let's make everything. Yes and no, black or white. Well, that's a clue to the nature of reality. Is that a one thing elected, I would say, to become two things. And then the sacrifice, it's not an error, but the sacrifice of becoming two is pain.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's like I'm going to express myself as 2. And as soon as you do that, and you said that yourself, like, becomes a city, becomes a group, becomes a country, becomes a planet. The sacrifice is all the pain. And the gain is all of the joy and the intimacy and the pleasure and the creation and the beauty and all that sort of stuff. But it doesn't come for free, it.

[A]

Comes at a cost. Yeah, that's true. And I think that there's. I think what's interesting about that is that if it is a simulation of sort, then pain, division, strife, all these things, these are all challenges to the base of what consciousness is. And I think, like, it's, in a way, if you zoom away from it, you take yourself out of it. If you zoom away from it conceptually, it's like, oh, it's an exercise. It's like training with a weighted vest. Yes. You know, it's like adding a challenge to your existence. You're not taking your existence for granted. So you're running simulations of the ways that things can be inefficient or imbalanced. Ultimately doesn't matter because those things don't matter, and they also matter at the same time.

[B]

I told you that was one of my ketamine things. The headline was delightfully irrelevant. Oh, gorgeous. You have to have delightfully, wonderfully irrelevant. Yes. Not.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So many people come back from psychedelics and they're like, it's a big void. And I'm like, you missed the.

[A]

The key part 100.

[B]

You missed the. The blissful void. You missed the. The joyfully meaningless.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, that's the. That's the other part. Remember when we talked about that?

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Delightfully meaningless. Sorry. So, yeah, it's running exercises and running with weights.

[A]

Because it's like, if you think about it, like, you know, like, you know, and then the choices you're making as a conscious individual so you can become awake as a piece of consciousness. Right. Like if. Or if we say like the entire univers consciousness, like everything is consciousness. Like everything is information to these physicists.

[B]

I was going to say that's. That's how I would phrase it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Say I. I like the consciousness only model.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when we go, is this a simulation? You would say, yes. Consciousness is simulating something that's impossible. Sorry, I've been wanting to tell you this. In the Bhagat Bhagavat Gita, it says, that which is never ceases to be. That which is not, never was, never came into existence.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love that you get it. That which is never ceases to be. So that's the one thing. That which is not never comes into existence. That's us. So it's delightfully meaningless. But don't worry, because that which is never ceases to be. And that's what you really are. So that's the perspective that you can be watching and going, like, look, it's running with weights and it's expressing itself in all of these multitudinal ways.

[A]

Yes. No, multitudinally true, but I mean, that is. I love you saying that, because for me, the Thing I've learned most from ketamine is this term came into my head because it's what the state of ketamine is, which is a paradoxical state.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. So you're as close as you can get to existing, which doesn't make any sense, but existing or perceiving paradox. Because if you're perceiving paradox, you're slightly outside of it, but you can be very close. It's like being very close to a black hole without touching the event.

[B]

You're absolutely right. When I was on it, I was like, I can see consciousness, which doesn't make any sense because to see consciousness, you'd have to stand apart from it, which is why we can't see God. You can only be God.

[A]

You can only experience God.

[B]

You can't look at, like, consciousness, can't. You can't look at oneness, is what I'm saying. Oneness can rest in and as itself. But as soon as you're looking at it, now there's a subject and an object, so you're back in duality. But on ketamine, paradox, you go, I know that's true, but I'm looking at it exactly.

[A]

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, not even. Not only that, you are able to. You're right on the edge of being able to be consciousness. So what I call the. The experiencer and the observer, right? And it's like, that's what we are, Right? We are. We are two beings. Like every human, you know, anything that's sentient is two. Because it's aware of something, it's aware of itself. That's right. While being itself.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

And so it's like we're bouncing between two. So the overview is like, that's probably not a good idea, or I shouldn't go down here, you know, or this doesn't look good. And then the experiencer is like, I'm getting the information in real time. Well, this is cool. And so when you have that nice relationship with. Call it intuition, you know, then you get this nice moment of like, this feels good. And it feels good. You know, it feels good from the overview and it feels good from the experience or point.

[B]

Yeah. When those two things can sync up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That. That's. So my teacher, Rupert Spiral, would say, like, when we live this understanding, live the implications of this understanding, like harmony, those two things sync up. Your nature is spacious, blissful, peace, happiness, happiness, meaning the absence of agitation. And we can link our lives into that. That doesn't Mean we won't have conflict, but you can become an expression of what you call the witness instead of the experiencer, instead of getting lost in the experience. Nothing wrong with the experiencer.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

You won't find a lot of peace in that person.

[A]

Not. Not consistently.

[B]

Not. No can be. I'll say.

[A]

Because, you know, context, you need the context. Right.

[B]

And your context is peace.

[A]

Yes, I would say, yes, I think so. And that's, that's when it like, you know, you get these messages, these like conduits. Like I imagine it's just like almost like a quantum entanglement. You know, you get these once you're quantumly entangled between like an observational and an experiential point. That's what like. So to me, ketamine, when I'm like on, let's say I did an intermuscular journey. So it was like really high dose, definite K hole. And the thing that I kind of came to was that everything is, is code. I saw like this base code of reality. It was like this green, I don't know, like blanketing, undulating. Yeah, it's like, it's like you're there, but you're also everywhere. So. So that's the paradigm. K is the liminal. It's a liminal space. It's on not even a state. It's a space when you arrive there, when people on K, when, especially if you jibe with it and you get into a similar zone, everyone's like, like, we're here now. Yeah. It's not like I feel this now. We're here now.

[B]

The person that administers it for me, I'll be like, I'm back. I'm in that place. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I always go like. It becomes so funny that what we use this reality for is to play movies. Guessing how the future will be or replaying the past. And I know that's like the most basic bitch thing to say, but when you're on ketamine, you're like, like, what a waste.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

What a waste.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're just driving in your car watching. Like there's a transparent, like a, you know, like a. Yeah, a see through.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Transparent screen of two Christmases ago or something your mom said. And you're like, ketamine can take you back into that place where you're like, I don't have to do that.

[A]

No.

[B]

In fact, that's kind of. That's stupid. You know, people think it's dumb to look at your phone, but we're all like, like, looking at our phones. You know what I mean? You're scrolling through memories.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And worse, you're scrolling through imagined futures that are only always wrong.

[A]

Yes. Always. Only always wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Always.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[B]

That's a good use of your time.

[A]

Oh, right. Oh, my God. I mean, that's exactly what happens. Because, like. And that's why, like, you know, at lower dose is why it's great for treatment, is because it puts you into that perspective where all these loops that you're in, these habits that we have, these little habit loops, you know, like, depression to me is just a loop. So this is a type of a loop. And you're able to. You go outside of it and you're like, I see exactly what this thing is doing, which is what I imagine it while I'm in it. But now I can see it. And now it's verified. And that is fucking unnecessary. And then it just goes away. I'm not saying in one session you're healed of it. I'm just saying, like, in your mind, you can feel that you can actually just dismantle it. And then the interesting thing, and this is what you're talking about. Like, we're talking about like two. Two states at one time. I remember I took. I went on a K. K hole. Like a, you know, level, say, let's say, like, there's four levels to a K hole, right. I was like on a second level K hole.

[B]

That's enough ketamine, where you're kind of like frozen.

[A]

You're. You're not moving. You're just kind of like sitting in place and you are gone.

[B]

You were just not like, panic. I always thought a K hole was kind of like a panicky people.

[A]

People associate K hole to something really terrible. A keyhole is terrible when you're in a public situation. Situation.

[B]

I see if you're. If you're someone's club hand, you change.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you have to do anything human, you know, at all. Like, I have to, like, move myself to a bathroom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. It's a nightmare because you feel alone and stranded, and it's terrifying. Unless you're with friends. Right. And then take care of you. So usually a K hole is. You're at a place that's safe. You can, like, hang. You know, everyone's taking care of each other.

[B]

One of my psychedelic rules is, like, don't have anything in your pocket.

[A]

Pockets.

[B]

Just. It's a nice. Even if that's just metaphoric. Just don't have anything on you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Kind of feel like PJs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feel like, oh, I don't. I don't need anything. Like, when I've been on ketamine, I try and I'll go like, oh, a podcast dropped today. I'm like, don't think about how many people are listening to your stupid voice. Not stupid. You don't.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, I know, I know.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, that's paranoia. Like, get that out of here. Let's just be a PJ'd soft body.

[A]

A hundred percent. Yeah. Because you're like. You're just giving yourself permission to just be existence.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And that's it.

[B]

You don't want your. You might want some music, but you don't want your keys.

[A]

No. All of that stuff is, like, weird and. Oh, and here's something really interesting. Here's something really interesting. I think you'll like this. So. Oh, we'll get back to the 2 level K. I'll hold on. Okay. Hold on to that. But like, K is like, this is so weird. But like, sometimes some of the best places that I. I've experienced, like, K like good K experiences with, like, friends. I once was in front of a dumpster, like, sitting on the ground and we're talking about, like, broken glass, you know, this is downtown la. I'm in front of a dumpster with three of my friends and we're just having the best time ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like the placement, like, it's weird. Or I'm in a room and I'm like, kind of light sensitive. So like, if, you know, with sudden changes, someone suddenly puts on these, these overhead fluorescent lights or whatever, and we were in this perfectly cocooned, like, blah, blah, blah, blah. On K. I've experienced, like, they put it on. And for a second I'm like. And then I'm like, oh, no, this is just as interesting as where I just was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. This is just as interesting.

[B]

Another quote that comes to mind is it's. It's from the Dao. I think it's the. The Great way. So the dao isn't which, you know, the big. The one is not difficult for those who have no preference preferences. It's one of my favorite lines.

[A]

Someone just told me this last week. That's crazy.

[B]

The great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. And I understand that's not for all times. Sometimes, you know, you're at the airport, you pick A lane for security.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That's all fine. I'm not against that. I'm just saying I've also been on ketamine and like my dog barks and I. It's almost like you go. I seem to remember that bothers Pete. Like you have this very dissociative like. And you see the phone is ringing to an old response, like, would you like to pick it up and be mad that the dog is barking or this is very trippy. You could recognize that the barking of the dog is made of the same stuff as any sound.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it is not out there, it's actually in you. And I know this is such long lamp.

[A]

No, this is awesome.

[B]

But you're like, I am the dog.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I am the bark. I am the resistance. I am the surrender. It's all okay. That's the big. Okay, that's the, the big ketamine feeling is it's all okay. There's no wrong moves and we can just let the dog bark.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's okay.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you can also maybe go see what he needs.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[B]

I love that you're in the dumpster, though, or by the dumpster because that's, you know, consciousness. Rupert Spires consciousness is like the space in this room and everything that happens in this room, the space, the empty space isn't affected by it. So our nature, when we say God is love, we're talking about this like almost offensively welcoming. Yes. To all things. Like the space in this room. And when you're sitting in front of a dumpster, I see you aligning with your nature where you're just like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This shitty smelling dumpster is as much, the Sufis would say the face of God as anything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's that place.

[A]

Yes, that's exactly. That's exactly it. And I to feel that, you know, because obviously we can conceptualize that. It's like, you know, if someone can go like, yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But when you feel that that's right as durationally, like for, you know, 30 minutes, 20 minutes or whatever, it really reformats your understanding and it's something you can bring into your non affected state self. Because for me now I'm just a lot less resistant to. Because I'm very particular person. It's like I love certain aesthetics. I like lighting conditions, whatever. I'm very particular. And it used to kind of affect me a little bit. Some kind of low grade OCD aesthetic. OCD or something like that. And now I Still appreciate those things and I still, still do it. But I, I'm not as affected by, by those things as much.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you saw what it felt. Well, don't let me tell you, but this is what I'll. Yeah, I experienced, you saw what it felt like to put that bag down. And what's crazy is we want to put bags down. You're talking about a loop, a depression, an anxiety, a panic, a self loathing, whatever it might be. When I say like what a waste to play out the future. I think most people would be like, yeah, I don't want to do it. And that's, that's the absurd human condition is we want to put down. Like I would love to put down need for my parents approval because it's so much better to just not have it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And when I'm on ketamine I can be like what parents? You know what I mean? And it's ultimate liberation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But through repetition it does soften more and more. Sometimes you're just not ready to put it down right away.

[A]

That's exactly correct. And I think like, like, and it's great when something can kind of just put you in that state so you don't have time to decide whether you're going to hang on to it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the thing about ketamine and a paradoxical state is that thoughts and the reaction to thoughts, they, those whatever those are usually embedded on like if they're like two sides or whatever, everything becomes Teflon. Yes. So, so like the idea. Because thought is just projection, right? It's comparison and then a projection and an estimation of some sort or a probable, you know, a probability being calculated, whatever. So that's what we're doing all the time. And then we kind of like that's conditions my reality. This is how I feel about something. Is this how I feel about it? Yeah, that's how you feel about it. You know. But sometimes we're just listening to some stagnant version of what we think. Like it's almost like an autopilot. Right. You walk in, you're like, well here's what I expect it to be. It's like, yep, just like I thought it's going to be like this. Right, Right. Whereas yeah, you're just kind of, you know, going to job and you're just.

[B]

Like extreme confirmation bias.

[A]

Yeah, this is gonna fucking suck. And you go there, it's like it.

[B]

Fucking sucks cuz you'd rather be miserable and. Right, I know that's another cliche yeah, that's true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've realized that on ketamine, it's like you're addicted to being upset or, you know, disappointed, because then at least you are a separate individual. And one of the things that can happen on ketamine is you start vanishing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And this is the ego's greatest nightmare. Unless you recognize that it's absolutely not. I know that was a mouthful, but, like, you think again. Rupert Spyras says, it's like the moth doesn't want to go into the candle flame, even though it's the thing it wants more than anything, but to get it, it has to stop existing. That's us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like we want peace and liberation and infinite, spacious, eternal. But we don't get to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Reggie doesn't get to go. Pete doesn't get to go.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The thing that is Reggie does not get to go.

[B]

Right, but the thing that is Reggie. Reggie is already there.

[A]

Yes, exactly right. And the thing that is Reggie is all things and is even.

[B]

Reggie's not there.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

That was the last time I did ketamine. I'm a big I am guy. Like, I go, this whole thing is I am or I am that. But I did ketamine, and I was like, it's me. And something about the word me felt so much more personal and intimate, and I was like, it's all me. And I didn't mean peace, but I was like, there's not a God somewhere else doing anything. It's nowhere and nothing. And it was you. It's the end of the wizard of Oz. And you were there, and you were there, and you realize that it was. I like the word me. It was me. It was. My deepest essence was the whole show. And how funny that we spent so much of it, we tricked ourselves so thoroughly, so delightfully, so skillfully, that we actually forgot ourselves. We were nervous, we were scared, we were worried.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

We wanted money.

[A]

We wanted to protect me. Like, you know, you, like, design what you are, you know, and then you're like, that's who I am. And then you protect it because that is a form of safety, you know, or it feels like safety, and it is as starter leaves, but we're not encouraged to move beyond. That's just like. It's a temporary state.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

You know, within this life, before you.

[B]

Can be nobody, which means everything. You have to be somebody. And that's not a flaw in the system. You need to build an ego. That's the hero's journey it's like you need to. In India, they have the stages of life, and it's like the later stage in life is when you take everything apart, but it's like, have a job, be a person, be a student, learn, have a relationship, get your heart broken. All that stuff is not a flaw or a problem. But what's somewhat lacking in our culture is that wise voice that goes like. And the journey doesn't stop when you have a car and a house and a job and a partner.

[A]

But. But for our society, yes.

[B]

And of course we panic. And of course we go like, well, let's just be eternal children. Let's just keep putting our dicks in cakes. Let's just keep, like, getting hot water shot up our buttholes and. And IMAX screens until you fucking die. You ever be on a plane and you just see, like, a really old person and they're just scrolling through Instagram?

[A]

I know.

[B]

And look, I don't mean to judge, but I'm just like, God damn it.

[A]

I know we're all fucked. I know we're all fucked.

[B]

You just scroll with brittle hands. That's where we're going. We're a culture that's lacking that flame of that wisdom, which is what we're talking about. And when you taste it, you go, like, what an opportunity older age would be to just work that and try and stay grounded, stay connected there longer.

[A]

Yes, Yes. I mean, 100%. And I think, like, you know, we obsess over the earlier stages of life because, you know, it represents an ideal of some sort. You know, like the youth culture, the fascination with, like, youth and people, like, I want to stay young forever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Really, like, you know, youth is essentially the childlike mind, the child being, staying in the childlike mind, but not, like the ego childlike mind, which is like, that's mine. And it's like, I want it all. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

That's the worst mind.

[A]

That's the worst mind.

[B]

No, no. I have a young child.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's her childlikeness, her pure child likeness, which is it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you will cry if you get to watch that thing eat breakfast.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But you'll also see it developing its boundaries and protecting itself. It's becoming specialness, wanting this, wanting that, wanting to stand out, whatever. It's becoming human. But you're absolutely right that there is something in a child that is closer because it doesn't know what it is. It's going around pinching. This is another round dust thing. You pinch the Couch, you go, okay, I guess that's not me. You put your leg, you go, I guess that is me. Yeah, they're still figuring that out. So they're having a very unitive consciousness experience until they aren't exactly.

[A]

Which is like. And it's, they're all stages, right? Those are the natural stages of being. There's nothing wrong with a sentient being in this reality. It's like, you know, you come in, it's like, hey, piece of consciousness. Join the fractured version of consciousness, which isn't fractured, but it appears fractured because you are, you appear as an individual. And the self within yourself is saying you are an individual. And all of the selves within selves are all agreeing that we all are individual, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whole human race, right? But then like, there are many of us that, that go beyond that state. Like there, there's some of us that do that are like, you know, gurus, people who see a near, near death experience, what, whatever, what have you, comes from every angle.

[B]

Because it loves you and it wants.

[A]

You because it loves you. And we are it and we are not it. Right. You know, it's like, you know, like the time that I met myself, I would say probably the closest I ever felt to like, God, you know, for the first time. Like, oh, God. Mushroom Tree trip Seattle, 1996. Went to the arboretum. My friend could identify psychedelic mushrooms. And there were some just growing under a tree. Picked it and he just, he said, eat this. And I ate it and got so high. And I, and I found a bathroom in the park that was still open. They didn't lock it. So I went to the bathroom, went to the bathroom stall, put down the toilet, toilet seat, sat down on the seat and just kind of put my head in my hands and just went on this crazy kaleidoscopic, architectural. You answered the call thing, right? And then the, and then the, the, the pathway ended. Like the, the trip journey thing ended into this like, non space. And then I was just surrounded by this presence. And I was like, oh my God, I haven't seen you in so long. I miss you so much. And I started crying and I was like, oh, this is, is the me. Non me. This is, this is me, but this is not me. And, and, and I just remember I got so emotional doing that part and I couldn't believe, you know, it was kind of like, I can't believe I'm feeling this. But also, this is infinitely familiar.

[B]

Yes. No, I, you're describing it beautifully. Oof. That's exact oh, Reggie, what a gift you gave us. That is so beautiful. And. And I love that you use that, because the word me, you could say this is the I that I am.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But there's something. Something almost childly childlike to say it's the me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's me. Well, me is great because it rewards itself for itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a pure way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, as opposed to, like, this is mine. It's not like ownership. You're, like, saying, this is me is like full self acceptance.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, and that. And that just shoots out into the.

[B]

Yes. That's in the me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's an acceptance in the word me.

[A]

Yeah. Because, like, it's like, if everyone felt that way, we would feel we. I mean, we would feel we.

[B]

Well, that's the metaphor that I like the most, is that this is the word God is loaded. But you could say this is our. This is. I'm going to use the word God.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This is God's dream. And it's localized. So again, Rupert Spira says when you have a dream at night, and he always uses the Caribbean beach, he goes to experience the Caribbean beach, you have to localize yourself as a point in the dream, otherwise you can't experience it. So you localize yourself. So look at what you're doing. Look at the fucking grace, the gift. Of all the metaphors that are in this world, the best one is, I think, the dream. Because at night, your consciousness creates a 3D environment and then also splits. So it is the environment. Look at the clue. It is the environment. And it's simultaneously localizing itself in the environment. And then there are other people. So this being the multiple locations. Biolo.

[A]

Bilocation.

[B]

Yeah. But it would be like the word for, like, every animal.

[A]

Every Omni.

[B]

Omni. Location.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.

[B]

So, like, it's in you. But when I try to love Reggie, like I happen to love Reggie, Pete loves Reggie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I can love anybody when I recognize it's just me.

[A]

Yeah. The you and you. The you and them. The you and them. The you and me.

[B]

The one that you met in that bathroom. Reggie, it's me.

[A]

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Remember me?

[B]

Do you remember me?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then you go there. Another Rupert thing he says is, like, we pray to God. God is praying to us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, you could say that. It's saying, I miss you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Come back.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You're getting a little. Yeah, you're getting a little scared out there.

[A]

And it's almost like it's using binary tactics to remind itself of itself. You know what I mean? So it's saying, like, you miss me. It's like it knows that you are infinitely united. Yes. It doesn't actually miss you, but it does miss you.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It appears to miss you.

[A]

Yes. Because it wants to attract you like a flower. You know, it's like. It's like, oh, there you are.

[B]

It's nature. Yeah, it's nature. It's natural as a be. And a flower. It's its nature to want itself. These are all metaphors. To want itself, to play with itself, to hide from itself, to find itself. And at the same time, nothing happened and nothing went anywhere.

[A]

I know, I know. Is that so funny? Yeah. It's just because it's like, for whatever reason, and it finds it infinitely satisfying to see all these, like, little plays play out. That's right. And they're all. All the possibilities are playing out simultaneously. That's right. Infinitely.

[B]

And already did.

[A]

Already did and haven't.

[B]

And this is we already. Exactly. And this is where we kind of. So when you looked in that bathroom and saw the void, essentially, it gets frightening when the mind interprets what it saw. It will say, God is nothing. But the heart will say, God is no thing. I know I did a joke about that, but that's not my point. It's not a thing. It's also now here is nowhere. Now here, nowhere. So the mind can get freaked. Even people listening to this. We love it because we're there. Or whatever you want to say.

[A]

We like it.

[B]

We like it. I didn't always like it. When I first started getting introduced to these ideas, I remember a moment I was about to go on stage. I forget where it was, and I just started thinking about, like, this is God's dream or whatever. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or even the idea that oneness can't even. We know duality as our self, but the ultimate oneness only knows itself. It's only full of itself. It's always home. It's outside of time. It's completely fulfilled. So in that way, it doesn't. That idea of a God that was watching me, that I could say, I want to have a good show was so comforting. And it would be like, yes, my son, yes. And now I'm like, something far weirder is happening.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

That I believe that there is an. A relationship and an interplay, but it's not as logical as the relationship and interplay between us is.

[A]

Well, we're so limited Because. Because we are binary beings.

[B]

Right. And it's not.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean the. I always say the only certainties in life are death and paradox.

[B]

And I thought you're gonna say taxes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Damn it. I should have said that. That kind of makes sense.

[B]

I like paradox so much.

[A]

You like that better?

[B]

HR Block does my paradoxes.

[A]

Oh, yeah, sorry.

[B]

It's almost paradox season.

[A]

Paradox, it's the new software that's making taxes much easier for you at home. Paradox is sponsored by. Yeah, I mean, but you know what I mean. Because it's like paradox is like, it's impossible to think paradoxically, but we have mechanisms that symbolize paradox, which are like wise. Like some of the things that you've said or you say like life is as large as it is infinitely small, or whatever it is, it cancels itself out. And that's like semi. Same explanation for a joke. It's like, you know, a joke is an expectation. An expectation is. Is subverted. But the reason or how it gets subverted is because there are kind of like. It's a simplification, but like there are equal opposites that annihilate.

[B]

It's a particle collider.

[A]

Yeah. It's a PI. It's a particle collider. And in that collision is the everything, nothing. That's a paradoxical moment. Everyone's brain lights up because they see it and they feel it. It's like a paradox shockwave wave. And they're like. And then everyone reacts. They like laugh and they're like.

[B]

They're joyful because they're reminded moment. I think they. They taste the. The. The me. Not me.

[A]

Yes, 100%.

[B]

And so with. So too with music, so too with nature. Yeah. Sex, art, beauty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rupert would say that the experience of beauty is the recognition that like the sunset is you. It silences the mind. So this is the idea of the koan. Right. And we're going to get to your stage.

[A]

Hold on one second. Hold on to that. Can I use the restroom real quick?

[B]

Sorry, you have to stay here.

[A]

There's one more important thing.

[B]

This episode is brought to us by our friends at Roosevelts. That's rsvlts, the makers of the best, most fun, best feeling, best fitting, best looking shirts and clothes that I have ever owned. And I'm not just saying that I resist wearing a nice dressy or, you know, just a collared button shirt. That's what I consider dressy, messy. But Roosevelt's not only makes it fun with patterns from things like Star Wars, Disney, Nickelodeon, the office, Jurassic park and just some classic fun patterns which I really enjoy. But they also make it feel amazing. I'm talking light, soft, stretchy, and it fits so damn nice. They are moisture wicking. They are breathable. Perfect. Now it's still pretty warm. I know it's the fall, but it's still pretty warm here in California. So I love a breathable shop shirt. They have stuff for everyone. We're talking toddler youth, men, women, and they use Kunaflex, which is a four way stretch material. But like I'm saying, this is a great gift for people, you know, that might love the office, might love Star wars, might love all those different things. Get that wallflower thing out of your system, wear something fun out, get people chatting, get people knowing what you're into before you've even said a word. It won't shrink, it won't wrinkle after washing. They look fantastic. I wear it on late night show. I wear it on red carpets. And I also just wear it out on a date with Val when I want to look good but also feel fantastic. They are best based, excuse me, out of Hoboken, New Jersey. Hoboken. Hoboken, New Jersey. They have clothing for the bold and the fun and for those who dare mighty things, just like their namesake Teddy Roosevelt once said. So if you want to get your hands on some of these amazing, amazing items, visit roosevelts.com that's R, S, V, L, T. Who has time for vowels? RSVLTS.com or check them out on Instagram @RSVLTS. Incredible. Lovely stuff. Not just saying that, not just reading copy. I love these guys. And if you're looking for some new clothes, give them a try. The show is sponsored by Better Help. This month is all about gratitude. And it should come as no surprise that one of the people I imagine most grateful to is Dr. Gary Penn, whose book is available now. That's the joke we always make. Dr. Gary Penn was my therapist. He's still my friend. He changed my life. Talk therapy changed my life. And this month is all about gratitude. And along with that person, Dr. Gary Penn, there's another person we don't get to thank enough. And that's ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind, to remember, to remind ourselves. You could just say remember or remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make the sense of everything. To make sense. It's tricky out there. It's confusing, it's weird. Well, woke up in a conundrum that none of us asked for. And in this crazy world that isn't easy to remember ourselves. But here's that reminder. Send some love to the people in your life, including yourself. I have benefited so much from talk therapy. It has been a game changer. And better help makes it so, so, so easy. You gotta get into it. You gotta give it a try. It couldn't be more simple. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Get. Let the gratitude flow with better help. Visit betterhelp.com weirdo today for 10 off your first month. That's better help. H E L P.

[A]

Weirdo.

[B]

All right, everybody, back to the show. Oh, nice. Done.

[A]

Whoa. I don't know how that dude talked like this, because I can barely. You can barely understand what I'm saying.

[B]

Like, so. Yeah, I don't have the. Yeah, I don't have the. I do a very. Some days I can do it. Some days I can.

[A]

But it's like, oh, that's good.

[B]

Oh, I don't. I lost my voice over the weekend. I can do a very good shave. Like a. Getting your head checked. The buzz.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I don't have it.

[A]

I can hear it.

[B]

It's because the spit isn't that funny. The spit comes out just right.

[A]

Oh. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, but it's great.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

I can do it. Like, I can do it.

[A]

Never heard that.

[B]

Because you push up on the tongue and that's when you get the. The. Oh, trim sound.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I can make it. So it's like.

[A]

Yes, you can do. Like that. Oh, my God. It's great. That's insane. Seriously. That's like. I'm so impressed. I didn't even know that was something that could be done.

[B]

When I was a kid, I did it as a guitar.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

My voice is gone. Five shows.

[A]

Well, five shows. Five shows, guys. Hey, daddy. Gotta work.

[B]

All right, so we had the two things. And we can wrap up. We've done.

[A]

No, no, it's. It's cool.

[B]

Loved every moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we don't have to push it.

[A]

No, I. I will say. I will say this just to finish on the. Oh, the. The story.

[B]

The two.

[A]

The ketamine story.

[B]

The stage two.

[A]

Cable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The stage.

[B]

We have that. And then we were talking coons and stage two.

[A]

Oh, go. Because that's where we were.

[B]

We won't forget stage two. I just want to say what you were talking about, the brain not being able to go there. Yeah. And how things like ketamine can bring you into the place of paradox, the experiential location of paradox, which is incredible. It kind of carries some of the memory back with you. And it's very meaningful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But then the non substance version of that is kind of what a koan is. And the classic, like, if a tree falls in the woods and it doesn't, and no one's there to hear, it doesn't make a sound. I was like, that's a classic for a reason. Because that's a consciousness only question.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, if there's no perceiver, is there anything to be perceived?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In that koan is saying the whole experience is the knowing of it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The universe is made of. Of knowing. And now we're back to your thing. You're saying information, the knowing of that information. The information is only the knowing of it. And we won't do this whole thing. But Rupert has this. I trip out on it all the time. He goes, look at your own experience. It's like your hand is on your knee, and then there's the sound of my voice. And if your eyes are closed, the sensation of your hand on your knee, if you were to localize that, that you would say, it's here. You know, there's no, like, space. And then there's my voice also within you as you. It is you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like showing up like, you know, when they play music underwater and it kind of like.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's like consciousness is the water. And, like, there's different shapes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So one shape is a feeling which is like lots of little dots of your hand on your knee. And there's my voice. Then you can bring it up. A thought happens in the same space. You could conjure up an image happens in the same space. It's all happening in consciousness. It's made out of consciousness, and it's known by consciousness. And that's the tree falling in the woods.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't that wild?

[A]

I mean, it's beautiful. And not only that, but that's exactly what quantum physics is all about.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The observer, the Heisenberg thing.

[A]

The Heisenberg theory. Yeah. It's like the uncertainty principle. And so that idea that, like, reality becomes reality, it collapses into the. I guess. Well, in quantum would probably be more mathematically explained, but like, experientially, or at least for. For a Metaphor. It's like you are a flashlight in the dark. What you're shining your light on is what you're seeing. That's reality. And in essence, if you have a wider beam, say that there's a wider field of awareness now. You're able to see more things. Things where you point, but as you look away, there is nothing there. And when you look at something now, there is something there. And in a way, it's like I kind of view it. This is my own take on it. But it's like we're all pieces of consciousness exist, kind of like cooperatively generating reality together.

[B]

Right? That's exactly right.

[A]

You know, and so. And so.

[B]

Or I would agree with that.

[A]

Yeah. That's why it's. It sustains or has the illusion of a sustained reality.

[B]

That's why I, like when I share hallucination, it's a. That's why it's not Reggie's dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the one mind's dream.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And there is a stability to it from it. From the one mind. That's why you and I both experience the couch.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And why when you dream at night, the couch might turn into an elephant. It's so much more. That's where the dream thing kind of falls apart and people go like, I don't understand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But for this, for one reason or another, the one mind's dream is more stable than you and I when we dream it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's what it feels like, you know, because I wrote a quote a long time ago on Instagram about that, like, we are. We are all collectively generating this reality. Yes. And so because we are doing so. And the. The horizon, using binary time based language. But the horizon before us is infinite. So we can end up in any of those realities on the. On the infinite horizon. So. So that means. Means that anything is possible in this reality. And it's really funny that there is this kind of addiction to power. This idea of power and resource hoarding and this form of capitalism that we live in now, where these billionaires and trillionaires are people in power, they are in service of power itself. They have a virus that they are infected with this idea that they need to be in service of something that does not exist. It does exist, but it does not exist.

[B]

The money.

[A]

Yeah, the money. The power. Like, we need to exponentially grow forward in a finite resourced area. We're going to infinitely grow. It's like, I know that's not possible, but I am hopelessly addicted to this, I cannot deviate. So it takes the rest of us, which there's way more of humans that are just like, hey, we just want to have a good time and be creative and, you know, have good times. Yeah, There might be some scuffles here and there, but most of all, you know, it's friendly rivalries. But we're like. We're quite.

[B]

Somebody said that that type of addiction, hoarding money and power, is like a heroin addiction, except the. When you do a lot of heroin, your body, you know, starts to deteriorate and all that stuff. It's like that, except the side effects are experienced by everyone else. Isn't that crazy? So the planet gets the side effects, the other people get the side effect. Yeah, but it's still. It's the same thing that's happening. You have an addiction. And here's the shadow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a really bright light and there's a really big shadow.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that. We're just experiencing it like that.

[A]

Yeah. My friend Elijah explained it the other night. He's this kind of amazing, mysterious friend of mine who's definitely a shaman. I've never met a shaman before, but that. But they are a shaman for sure. But anyways, he, you know, he has like, every substance, every plant substance you can imagine and knows about everything. And he'll, like. If you go out with him and night, sometimes he'll be like, here, smell this fragrance that's only been smelled by a thousand people. Blah, blah, you know? Oh, crazy. It's like, this is a plant medicine that is used in perfume in the Arab world. However, it is also used as a psychedelic. And Blah, blah, blah. Try it as a psychedelic. Holy. What the fuck is this shit? This is insane. It's like. Yeah, I know. You know, like. Like casually just pulling. It has this magic bag where, like, things just keep coming out. And then suddenly has tea in a nightclub. He's like, he had a teacup. Here's some tea. Would you like some more? Where did this come from? Anyways, but he told me a quote about. I think it's in. It's Sufi or something like that. There's a word for this infection. Or maybe it could be Native American as well, but there's a word for. It's like a character in their mythology, and the character embodies is essentially greed, but it's an infection at the same time. So it's an infection that is part of the consciousness.

[B]

Skinwalker.

[A]

Of humankind. No, it's not a skinwalker. No, no, I know. About the skinwalkers.

[B]

Skinwalkers are when they kill your own tribe sort of thing.

[A]

Yeah, it's cannibalistic principle. Like a spiritual cannibalistic principle or something. No, this is like about. This is just like a. It's a thing. It's just like. It's a thing that is in. Within humans is the description. It's like a thing that can infect.

[B]

Well, it's funny. There's another way that I've thought about that. Meaning, like, let's take Trump putting his name on buildings and building giant skyscrapers. It's very King Midas. It's very. But it's also distinctly human. And there is kind of a. I don't even know if it's compassionate, but it's just kind of an interesting thought experiment that it could just be a perversion of the inkling of his eternal fundamental nature.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

Where you go, like, I limit. Limitless.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I am eternal. I cannot be destroyed. So then sometimes when the ego gets a hold of that partial understanding, it does very wild and absurd things. It's not just Trump, it's lots of making pyramids or just like trying to be eternal.

[A]

Yes, I totally hear that. That actually makes. It makes a lot of sense because I like that the perversion aspect of it, because I do think, like things that are imbalance or it's say an imbalance. Or when I say things that are shitty, I'm saying that they're. They're things that affect the quality of the lives and the life around the decision. Right. It's at the cost of the environment around you. Right. And that's what I think of is like when someone's like, this is bad or this is. Blah, blah. So I think I think of it that way.

[B]

But the separate self can't, by the way.

[A]

This doesn't protect itself.

[B]

Right. So it'll. It'll. It can't have this understanding.

[A]

Yeah. It's.

[B]

It's why you can't leave the room with the. The Holy Grail. Remember in the temple, the Last Crusade. You can't leave with the Grail.

[A]

Oh, that's right. Yes.

[B]

The ego can't leave with the Grail. The whole thing explodes.

[A]

It's just. Yeah, it's just. Yeah.

[B]

And that's in every story. It's like, you can't. Reggie can't have it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pete can't have it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you can be it. You just won't be Pete while you're.

[A]

It.

[B]

It doesn't make any sense. It is Paradox.

[A]

It's. I mean, it's completely paradox. And that's what that idea, like Indian psychic psychedelics, you know, ego, death and so forth. It is terrifying to, like, lose the sense of yourself. It's like the thing that I use to reference me, existing in time and space, it is disintegrating. Right. I cannot stop it. And I have the maximum amount of fear of that happening because that means I won't. I will lose who I am. I will not be who I am. And that's why when you go through an experience like that and you have hopefully a very beautiful arrival at some.

[B]

Point, and that's what the teachings and the writings and the teachers are for, is to help you understand.

[A]

Yes. Even without drugs, it's like just like the practice of, you know, a mind state will get you there, but once that happens and then you come back from it and there you are again. That does something to the brain.

[B]

Where I agree.

[A]

Where you're like, I am not as important as I think I am. My. My joyful expression of whatever is myself is the thing that I should always be. Be.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

As much as possible.

[B]

That's right. That's the integrating of the understanding into the way you live your life.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And if we are in the same dream, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna attack you.

[A]

Yeah. Because also, you realize it's not efficient. Like, it makes no fucking sense.

[B]

We're back to the cancer thing. Yeah.

[A]

Like, why would you want to kill a bunch of people that could help solve the problems that are making you feel depressed and devoid of whatever. Empathy or whatever in the first place. Place.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like, I think if like anybody fighting a war, but, like, you know, like, again, like, to take to the Israelis. But imagine if there was like a bomb you could set off in. In Israel that just like, it was a gas bomb and it just like mda, you know, MDMA gas bomb or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And just for a moment, and it's like, I'm not naive.

[B]

I know that, like, mdma, by the way, is ecstasy. Ecstasy, guys, Psychedelic ecstasy increases feelings of love and connection.

[A]

Yeah. It's an empathy bomb. But like, you imagine that like, or say, like, on the front lines or like where these military operations. Operations are happening. And because of the conditioning that war warrior cultures provide, which, you know, United States isn't definitely warrior culture. There's a bunch around the world, and obviously for thousands and thousands of years isn't new. But to. To. To raise an entire society in a warlike stance to be like, we are warriors. We are here to make sure that we not only protect our lands, but on occasion we're going to take more land. And we're going to do this because we believe in ourselves, because we are warriors and this is why we deserve it or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so you, you, you, you do an empathy bomb in those situations and everyone's just kind of going like, what are we.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What are we doing right now?

[B]

Right.

[A]

What? This is a decision.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On both sides.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We're deciding to do this. And like, and, and then if you think about the efficiency, you're like, it makes more sense to have more people involved in solving a problem than killing a bunch of people and thinking that that's a solution to a problem. Right. It doesn't even make any sense on a resource side. It's a waste of resources.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's crazy. Homelessness. Crazy. What a waste of resources. Yeah. All of those, like, why are we not solving that? It's like, that's all that brain power, all those brain resources, all those people that could be involved in solving problems.

[B]

Again, that's something AI would think is.

[A]

Yes, preposterous, completely absurd.

[B]

It'd go like, but that's your greatest resource.

[A]

Yeah, like, yeah, I know. But we just don't care about them because they don't fit within this paradox paradigm.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The system that we live in, they're not very useful. Yeah. They're not useful to what? To this system. But where's the human value and well. Or where's the human well being? In the system. It's like, oh, we didn't add that to the system.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's not in the system.

[B]

We're actually not that interested in well being or happiness.

[A]

Just crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it's not.

[A]

We're.

[B]

I wrote this down. I don't think I'll do it on stage where I was like, instead of asking people what they do, I just say, are you better than me or am I better than you?

[A]

I mean, cut to the chains. That would be honest.

[B]

Are you better than me or am I better than you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dude, have you ever gotten. I like to think, Reggie, you don't have this in your ego anymore. It's been eradicated. But sometimes I watch myself. I'll think of a friend that I could invite to lunch and my ego will. Just tell me the statistics. Cats. Well, you'll feel better about yourself if you hang out with this friend.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You'll feel challenged if you hang out with this. Sometimes you want to be challenged. Sure. Sometimes you're like, I'll hang out with them because I'll feel like the. The alpha in the pack. And sometimes I want. I don't want that. But by the way, I don't condone any of this, but when you look at the binary system, you heard it, it's going, who's a winner?

[A]

I'll take the hit.

[B]

Who's a winner? Who's a loser? Like, how do you want to feel that the day. Who fits that role for you?

[A]

Right. I mean, I think that there's a healthy version of that. I think that there's this. I think. I think sometimes certain friendships we have. All friendships are different. Right. The connections are different. The love is the same.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But. But the connections are different. The relationship, the electricity, the mechanism. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I will hang out with a friend that I think is better than me when I'm sure looking to grow.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

What's a little petty is if I'll hang out with. With someone who I think quietly, like, oh, maybe I'm doing better in this way.

[A]

Yeah. I know.

[B]

That's where you. That's why I say I'm depersonalizing myself from it. I'm like, look at the ego. Look at how tricky it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It'll get little key bumps of validation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From anything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And also as a performer, I've noticed it's never enough. Sometimes I have to get off stage. Fantastic show. I fucked up one joke. I'll go, it's never enough.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, there's a good surrender in that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, it doesn't matter. They could have been giving me a standing ovation the entire show. I would have been like, they didn't listen to me.

[A]

I've experienced, you know what I mean, so many times.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. And then I have to go into this thing where I'm like, why are you being so hard on yourself right now? And then, like, you know, and then you just can't get out of it. Like, sometimes I just can't get out of it. And I just have to allow myself to feel that.

[B]

But that's what I do, too. You just go, like, what are you going to do on the radio?

[A]

You can't fake it. You know, that's like the quote I've been saying a lot. Liz, there's no substitute for sincerity.

[B]

Yeah, that's good. You know, and sometimes that's what yourself feeling is, is forgiving it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even saying yes to it. That's another Rupert thing. It's like, look at your circumstance. Look at your feelings as if they were what you asked for. And there's this weird paradox to that.

[A]

You go, like, taking responsibility.

[B]

Let's say, I wanted this. How do I respond to it now?

[A]

Right, Exactly. And also, like, you know, forgiving is like. I love that term. But for me, it's always been troubling because it's like, it feels. Because I grew up Catholic, so it's got some cath to it.

[B]

Well, it has an acknowledgment of error. Maybe you'll enjoy. This is on a. Post it over the mercy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mercy beats forgiveness because mercy doesn't even ask what you did. Mercy just is a bug zapper.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Whatever you're feeling just gets zapped at Mercy. Forgiveness goes. Reggie, you know, you were a little late today, but it's okay. Like, that. That kind of sucks, right?

[A]

It's so backhanded. It is like it. It leaves you exactly where you were.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But feeling like something, my ego will.

[B]

Take it and go, I forgave you.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Don't even with. Yeah, exactly. That's what the. Even the justice system, like, I'm gonna allow you to walk free. And you're like, I'm a good person, and I let that bad person, like, oh, my God, we'll take hits wherever we can.

[A]

It's a system outside side of itself. But. But. But it's interesting because, like, I guess what's my point? It's like we're coming close to the. The over. Yeah, but what was I. What were we just saying before this? Oh, letting. Oh, yeah. So. So getting off stage or whatever.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, there's definitely times where I'm like, I just. It's totally fine. I'm gonna still feel the. The residue of that feeling because I'm like, oh, I could have done this better, or I should have come out, you know, at this angle. It's like, oh, why did I rush this? Or whatever it is, you know, or, you know, yeah, whatever. You get off stage, I feel that way. And I'm like, you know what? These people seem to have a really good time. I think it was a really good show. And then I just let that ride. I'm not, like, trying to mine it, you know, for that feeling. I'm just like. I visualize it, and then I just kind of let it go. And then I kind of allow myself to ambiently feel the disappointment that I had on stage. And then eventually it just kind of quietly goes away. And. And it's. And it's fine, because I know I'm gonna do another show. Cause I tell even young artists that, like, they'll be like, what? I have a big show. But I'm like, don't fixate on every show. You are. You've chosen this because when you get up in the morning, you can't stop thinking about what you do as an artist. And that's gonna be with you for life. You've got thousands of shows to do that's right ahead of you.

[B]

And the way to a bad show is to really obsess about that one show.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

You gotta ease.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

I just recorded the audio at one of the shows at Denver, and I was so tense just knowing we were recording it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like. And then the second show we recorded as well, and I was like. Happens every time. Every special is this way too. Second show, I go that.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, angrily that. And. And you get filled with this good. Like, however I do it, that's the album.

[A]

And that's.

[B]

That's like what you do for a living.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is true.

[B]

Can I ask you. Let's get to the K Hole thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I could talk to you forever.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[B]

And in a way, we love it.

[A]

That's what the future's for. Remember, we got hundreds and hundreds of more shows to do. That's right.

[B]

When I watch you perform like Ted, that's a tense place, I think, because, you know, 10 million people are gonna see it. And here's every tastemaking brain in the world, and I'm watching you do. Talk about, like. I can't find my, like, thing. You're singing in this way. I just want a practical glimpse into nerves. Because when. For me, for improvising to find a silly place like we were doing when we were walking in, you and I trust each other. We love each other. So it's easy to just be like, all right, let's go. And we get into play.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

When you're under the gun and we both do this, there's almost like a. There's like a. How do you fall back into that play space when. Nerves and. And pressure or like some sort of imposition. Your TED Talk starts here. This is where you should stand. These are the cameras. How do you find a shortcut to that playful place? Because that doesn't lock up your voice. Here. Here's exactly a better way to. If I want to beatbox in my car, I'm great at it, like, I'm pretty good at it. If I want to beatbox with you right now, it won't be good because I'll just be a little bit under the gun and it won't sound good.

[A]

Self aware.

[B]

Self aware. So what's one way? And maybe the answer is don't think about it, just kind of step aside from it. But is there some strategy you have to go? What I do is best done with the attitude of a man in a very hot bath.

[A]

Right.

[B]

How do you do that at a TED Talk?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, it, you know, it's very similar actually. Luckily in high school when I did competitive drama.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, we had competitive drama in high school and we would play against other schools in the state. We traveled other. You know, it was whole thing like speech and debate. It's kind of the same format, but drama version of it. So I competed in humorous solo first year. And it was insane, you know, like to. To like, oh, I'm gonna compete. You know, these 10 minute scenes that everybody would get up and it'd be like five, whatever people competing against each other in these classrooms. But I was improvising. I asked my teacher if I could improvise and she was like, yeah, that's fine. Usually you have to do a script. But I was like, I just want to improvise. She's like, sure, that's okay. And then I started, you know, and thankfully to her, she encouraged it, you know, and I do. But the feeling of getting up in front, especially as the shows got bigger, if you kept making it. And I got third in state that year, so I went to finals and all this stuff. And like, being in front of like bigger audiences doing the same thing, I really just had to trust my instincts. But also it was a little bit different back then because I developed a show over improvising all that time. So I kept things.

[B]

Something stayed.

[A]

And then by the end, like it was 90% written something like that.

[B]

I was gonna say I was nervous for you. I was like, but some things, you should keep them.

[A]

Yeah, some things. Yeah, you keep. But in this situation, so, so, but in that, I definitely learned, like, I gotta trust my instincts. I gotta trust my instincts. Just have fun up there. Just be the person that you laugh with when you're in your room playing by yourself, keeping yourself entertained. And so I always had that. But then like, you know, TED, it's also a building up. Like I did TEDxS and some tech conferences that weren't associated to TED. And then eventually I Got an opportunity to audition for ted. And then Ted. Ted took me in. And then I did my first TED talk 10 years ago. But I. Even then, it just reminds me of being in high school again. Like in that same feeling. Same feeling. So my thing is, like, I get up, you know, and this one, I was a little bit more nervous than usual because the first one that I did, I just did whatever the fuck I wanted to do. This one, because I told them that it was going to be about improvisation. So I actually had something to kind of make it about so that having something that I have to build around is. It's not impossible or anything like that. But it's definitely. I get nervous because if I have to remember something to do on stage, then I'm going to be disappointed that I've not done it if I've forgotten it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Right. Well, it's like jumping out of a helicopter into the ocean with absolutely no plan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like, I have to be in this position halfway down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's like very different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But here. And here I have to be improvising. But in the middle.

[A]

Middle. Yes.

[B]

Should look like that.

[A]

Yes. No, and that. I know, totally. It's like. And don't forget. Okay, now you're back. It's like, okay. And that's. And that's. And that's. That's kind of scary to me. But then once I got up on stage, you know, it usually all goes away. There's like a little bit of nerves in there because I'm like. But really it has to do with time because I only had nine minutes, so. And I. And I see the clock, which is good. That always gives me confidence, even in my own shows, because sometimes I'll do a two and a half hour show and I should only do an hour and a half, really. But I'll forget about time. But like, having a time and something indicates time is like very, very chill for me. But at ted, I'm like, I'm going to be talking about improvisation. I should talk about these two points about improvisation and bring that out and explain it a little bit. But also, I'm not sure how much performance should I do on the looper versus me talking about the nature of improvisation and going all, you know, and then recognizing the people in the room and then, then recognizing or acknowledging some of the talks that I heard before, you know, in the music or whatever. And so I was definitely a little bit more nervous. But generally it's like I'm walking up the stairs or getting. Going out onto stage. And I'm thinking, there's nothing there. It's kind of a. Like, there's nothing really there. And then I pick up the mic. And then when I pick up the mic and start talking, it's like I hear my voice in the speaker system, and that's when it all starts and it activates. So then I'm playing off of what I'm saying.

[B]

Now there's a thing.

[A]

Now there's a thing that you can.

[B]

Bend and stretch and cut and stop and start.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And just be like, oh, do I want to do this or do I want to do that? Because there's, like, so many things I could do, but I want it to come intuitively. But I'm just a little bit going, like, don't forget to talk about improvisation in some way that's useful.

[B]

Right, right, right. Hopefully. Which is why when I was watching that second TED Talk, I was, like, interested. Freestyling or freestyle singing is so much better. Easier if you're doing it at meltdown. And, you know, you could say cunt for five minutes straight.

[A]

True.

[B]

It's on the menu.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Maybe you shouldn't. Yeah, but you can at a TED Talk. I feel like you can't. You don't want to say that word.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Tell you not to.

[A]

No, they didn't tell me not to.

[B]

You just kind of know, right?

[A]

I just do it, like, at a tech conference. I mean, it depends, right? Like, if I was at, like, I don't know, VR LA or something like. Which I've done like a keynote there. I can say whatever the fuck I want to say. It's like, VR is like, you know, it's all adults, whatever. But when you're talking about ted, which is, like, broadcast all over the place and their cultural sensitivities and things like that, it's just smarter not to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, so there's an automatic thing that happens. I don't know. It's like. I think I'm pretty good at reading a room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'll.

[B]

But that's more programs running, like.

[A]

True.

[B]

We're not just running the Reggie program. That's true of, you know. Know your room. Ex.

[A]

But, you know, I don't. I don't. You know, to be honest, I don't really. I don't really cuss that much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On stage, I mean, there are definitely times where I'll go into, like, the hyper. Like. Like, there'll be those times almost like, fuck, shit, stack or whatever. Like, that Idea of, like, saying so many swear words. There might be a bit or a character that does that.

[B]

It's not even doing it. It's knowing that you can't. I. You know, I don't. I'm pretty dirty as a comic, but, like. Like knowing that I can. Then I do a corporate or something and I know I can't.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even though maybe I wasn't going to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have to, like, get over the mental hurdle of knowing that I can't.

[A]

It's tough. I mean, you have to kind of, like, set it and forget it, Right? Yeah. You know, and, like, learn how to do that, where you're like, this is what I do. Yeah, totally. Like, I click an instant pot Pro.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Instant. Oh, you know what you do get.

[A]

What is this?

[B]

This is actually. I think you're going to love this. This is a sponsor, but they gave.

[A]

Me John McLaughlin, McLaughlin's jazz fusion group. It's like Shakti.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my. Well, Shakti is a spiritual.

[A]

No way, right? There's no way. That word does not sound remotely spiritual at all.

[B]

It's an acupressure mat. You're gonna love it.

[A]

Okay, hold on.

[B]

If I was gonna get you a present, this is what I would do.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Just touch it. It's got all these pokies on it. This isn't an ad. This is just a gift. I'm glad they gave them to us. Us? Because I think you're actually gonna like it.

[A]

Oh, this is so cool. I can feel that. Oh, I think I've done. So it's. It's static, right? It's just like a. Static. Oh, my God.

[B]

You lay on it, dude. You lay on it. You're gonna love it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It. It kind of hurts at first.

[A]

Of course it does.

[B]

And then like, five, ten minutes in, you're like. It's like being in a bathtub. It's incredible.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So that's for you.

[A]

So cool. That's for you, bro. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. You're very welcome. That's awesome.

[B]

You can just toss it down.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

I didn't want to forget to do that because. Get the out of here, you piece of sh. Roast.

[A]

Piece of pain shit. Bdsm.

[B]

I don't. I'm not into bdsm.

[A]

Eastern bdsm.

[B]

Let's do your Cajun and we'll get out of here.

[A]

Okay. So. So, yeah. So I love Cajun food. And. And the thing about it. No, I totally get it wrong.

[B]

I tell Cajun. I love Cajun men.

[A]

It's, like, so good.

[B]

It takes me into a paradox.

[A]

Yeah. And. Yeah. You know how when you have yourself a piece of andouille and y'. All. Y' all feel that hell, your face.

[B]

Is right up today.

[A]

Yeah. You go your beignet. You get your beignet and some beans.

[B]

Beignet is French for fried dough.

[A]

Get. Why?

[B]

That was my joke in New Orleans. I was like. It's like you guys took. You were like, what if we took fried dough and made it difficult to spell?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It's a.

[B]

It's a carney.

[A]

Not. Not easy to say. Difficult to spell.

[B]

Fun to say, even.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Beignet.

[A]

I mean, come on.

[B]

Beignet.

[A]

You can say it like Americans can say it. They're not going to beignet. I mean, that'd be about the worst.

[B]

First, put some Ben Gay on your Ben.

[A]

Oh, what's that stuff that you use, you know, for pain relief?

[B]

Ben Gay.

[A]

How long?

[B]

Makes me laugh. That makes me laugh.

[A]

So stupid. So stupid. That was like. That was like fourth grade, third grade, you know, but like, in the 80s because, like, you never. I mean, it's like, you're old enough to, like, know that. Yeah. Any of my younger friends, they wouldn't know what. They're not getting that shit. They're just like, what? Like, did that stuff you use, you know, for pain or whatever be like, Gold Bond?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, what is it? Gold Bond or like Arnica?

[B]

Yeah, arnica.

[A]

How long?

[B]

How long?

[A]

How long? Doesn't work.

[B]

That dude's been gay. That dude's been gay.

[A]

His name is Benjamin Gay. He's a really cool dude. No, I guess. Okay, so going back to the thing. So my K thing. So I'm at a friend's house. We're at a swimming pool in the backyard, like, late at night, they have a family, but their child's asleep. And they keep going to check on them every, like, 20 minutes or so. And so they're sober. And there was, like. I would say there's total nine people hanging out, and we're all doing thing. And then my friend Kiki, she's like, oh, I've got some K. I think you might like. I was like, oh, that'd be great. And so we do the K, and we're sitting next to each other and we just kind of disappear. Like, we just go into our, you know, these K holes or whatever. And I noticed this was the first time I experienced this essentially a react no, this is the second time experience this.

[B]

So you didn't visually disappear. You close your eyes. You went inside.

[A]

Yeah, like, I just. I just dissolved myself. I removed myself from the current reality.

[B]

You're like, goodbye.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. It was nice knowing you. Swimming pool and people sitting on chairs. You know, it's like, you're awful interesting, but this is just a little bit more.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But like, it's the second time I experienced a reality overlay. And what I mean is that I was in a K hole. I was tripping. Just like going down these geometric, you know, mindscapes and like different tonalities of reality and like different. Different feelings, whatever that happens in a K hole. And then I was listening to the conversation that they were having, you know, like about that far away from me. Talking, still talking. They knew we were in a K hole, but they just carried on. And so they're. They're. They're doing their thing. They're talking and I'm listening to that conversation the whole time. But I'm also tripping. Equally. Trip. Tripping and hearing the conversation. Yes. I come out of the K hole and I tell them verbatim what they would said. Like different sections of what they were talking about. Like their kid. Or like, we're having trouble putting their kids to sleep and blah, blah, blah and all this stuff. And I was like, yeah, and you were talking about this and talking about that. And then my friend was like, how. How did you even pay attention to that? Like, I was like deep in a kale. I was like, I was too. But I had. I was experiencing two realities simultaneously.

[B]

Like, you watch two channels.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Television at the same time time.

[A]

Like, totally, like, on top of each other. Like, fully aware of both. Not like switching between them to check in on which reality is happening, but they were happening simultaneously. And the only other time that happened was in Montana on free. We used to huff Freon gas, which is similar to nitrous. Same vibe. And I'd done nitrous once in my. I used to do it in my mom's car. We would drive out, like four friends would drive out with a can of Freon in a big plastic bag, drive out in the country roads outside of Great Falls, Montana. We'd just like stop in the middle, like super dark area, whatever. Listen to music do, you know, fill the bag, take hits and just be like, oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. And there was one time we were listening to Metallica. Like, in the car. It was just like totally blasting. We're listening to Metallica passing around this bag, like, totally getting super high. And it was very memorable just because Metallica started rotating. Like, the music started rotating in this kaleidoscopic, like, weird, hyper psychedelic way. And I just always remember that feeling. And then months and months and months later, I go with my friend Travis and his red dots and pickup truck. So that was at night. I'm with my friend in the daytime. We park in a church, Christian college parking lot. No cars around, but we're like, in the parking lot, we do Freon again. I take this massive hit and suddenly I'm tripping. Like, you know, in the truck. Truck and tripping. But I'm also re. Experiencing the. The time that we did Freon with Metallica. Like, I was hearing.

[B]

To get a repeat.

[A]

Yeah. I was, like, reliving that reality. I was. I was. I was seeing the dark car with the stereo and, you know, the. The surroundings overlaid on top of middle of the day, blue sky, sitting in a 1976 Tiny Datsun pickup truck. Whoa. Like, at the same time. And I was just like. I couldn't believe it. I was just like, holy shit. And then I was. And I was. I could talk to Travis. I was like, I think I'm experiencing another time. Whatever. And it was like this perfect overlay. And I was like, what the fuck is that? And. And then when you were talking about, like, you know, we're talking about consciousness and also the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. I remembered when I had a K trip in San Francisco. I. You know, it was the intramuscular time. Someone came to my hotel room and injected me. And, you know. Cool. A person who does it professionally. And so the first dose, because we did two doses. First dose, I got really, really fucking high. But then, like, as I was coming down a little bit, I was like, oh, I need to go to the restroom. And so he helped me shuffle to the bathroom, close the door. I left this blindfold on that he gave us, which are called mindfuls.

[B]

Mindful.

[A]

They're the best.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So, like, you open your eyes. I'm in complete darkness, but it kind of like, you could believe it, you know what I mean? In a different way than a blindfold. And because there's no pressure on your eyes at all and your eyelashes aren't touching anything. So I decided. I was like, I'm gonna keep this. I was like, do you wanna take that off to go to the bathroom? I'm like, no, no, I wanna keep it on. So I shuffled me to the bathroom. I Sat down the toilet to take a pee and closed the door. And there was just the red. I have a headlamp that I travel with and I put it in the red light mode. So I'll do that for bathrooms at night because I don't want to be bright in the bathroom. So I'll just leave it on. It's led. It lasts for a fucking ever. Anyways, that was on, but I didn't know I couldn't see anything, so it didn't matter. But just to say that that was on. I don't know why I even said that. But anyway, so I'm sitting on the toilet and I am tripping out still. I'm trying to go to the bathroom. Of course, it's almost impossible to get the mechanism to engage.

[B]

I always go, you can pee in this dream because you feel like you're kind of dreaming and you're like, no, in this one you can.

[A]

Oh, you have to tell yourself, I gotta try that.

[B]

This one is the dream you can pee in. You don't want to pee in your night dreams.

[A]

No. Jesus Christ.

[B]

In this dream.

[A]

Jesus. No. No. But I mean, I wish I would have known that. I was just sitting there for it. But what ended up happening is I started to see the bathroom. Wow. With the mindfold on. Yeah. And so, you know, I would rotate my head and it's like, no, there's the bathtub. It's right there.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And the sink is right next to me. And I see the shelf and I see the toiletries that we have on the shelf, and it's like. Either that's. I don't think that's necessarily true that I'm seeing that. That. But it is true in that I am seeing that. Like, as. As in I. I've been in that bathroom before. I know basically what it looks like. My mind knows what it looks like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it can just reconstruct the reality in a persistent way. Wow. It's.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

You know what I mean? Yeah. And then I remember thinking to myself, this is what the Apple Vision Pro, or like VR in general. It feels like I'm wearing, like a 10th generation Apple headset. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, so lightweight weight. It's on your eyes. You can't even tell. It's like, oh, wow. This is. It's so believable. I. I have my peripheral vision, the reality. I can. I can see it in my peripheral village vision. I can see it in the full height. Wow.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

Yeah. Anyways.

[B]

But that's like that Roald all short story. The guy who could see with his eyes bandaged. Like it's just like one of the most basic fascinating things. Someone's blindfolded but they can still see because it's just another way of saying like. Like consciousness is outside the body. We love things like that.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Things like that.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

That's really cool.

[A]

Yeah. Both of those were cool. Yeah.

[B]

Reminds me, Shane Moss did DMT and he. I've never done dmt, but he was on DMT and he asked the. He asked God essentially to show him something that he couldn't know. Cuz Shane is the only person I know that goes into dmt, trips defiantly and it'll say, I am God. And he's like, you're just my, my. And I'm like, Shane, like I'm mad at him. And he said to it, you're doing consciousness wrong. I go. He goes, if you're, if you're really God, show me something that I don't know. And it showed him the corner of a room, like a specific kind of molding. And he was like, what does that even mean? Cut to like six months later, he does DMT again. He's coming down, he looks at the corner of the room and it was that corner of the room.

[A]

Oh my God. A different room.

[B]

A room he had never been in. It was like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was showing him a trip that he hadn't had yet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like you having.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You had it in the past.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But Shane was like. It was showing him the future. Yes. Like there really is something. It's all happening at once and we're like kind of. We have the experience of time and thought reinforces that. Or I'm sorry, We have the belief in the construct of time, but we don't really experience it in the way that we, we think we do. And these things like, break that down 100%.

[A]

I mean, it's just, it's just, it's common knowledge or at least in, in, you know, in physics, that idea, like all possible possibilities exist simultaneously. Right. And that there is just the arrow of time and our point of experience that defines the quality of that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Journey within the infinite. You know, in a way. And it's like, you know, and then of course the question is like, why are we even doing this? You know, if like. But, but then we've talked about this before. I think it's just because the nature of play.

[B]

It's its nature.

[A]

Yeah, it's its nature.

[B]

It's my daughter's name. The play of the universe is what Leela means.

[A]

Oh, that's true.

[B]

It's a Leela. So, like, slowing things down and consciousness creating the through line. Rupert has this beautiful thing where he's like, you look at a hundred beads, but why you see a necklace is. There's a through line. There's a. There's a thread underneath it. So our awareness is the thread. That's why we're not just having.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, there's this, like, feeling of, like, I'm going through. It's grace. It's nice. It's like, here's all the possibilities. But I'm going to slow it down for you in a way that you can experience and. And, yeah. Learn from or enjoy or whatever you want to say.

[A]

Yeah. And I love the, like, you know, being awake inside of it. And I think there's something kind of really fun about that because there's kind of like basic consciousness where you're like, this is the reality, and I'm aware of me, and other people are aware of themselves as well. And then we're just gonna do this thing that we're doing together. And that's kind of like, you know, that's one way of doing it. But then there's that. And then all of a sudden one day going, like, what? I'm in this thing. What is this thing that I'm in that we're all doing, but we've decided that we're doing. It's absurd that we're all just kind of going around not being aware of that. That's what we are aware of.

[B]

It's being in the play, playing the role, Rupert would say, of King Lear. But you can also be the actor knowing you're being King Lear, but still do it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Still enjoy the performance, but that. It's. It's like turning the dream into a lucid dream. You can still do it. I'm obsessed with my daughter. I'm obsessed with my wife. I'm obsessed with you and my friendships and the fun. And there's another. It's just a slight. It sounds pejorative to say an up leveling, but you can kind of. Of just step out of it. Well, what you reminded me is every morning I wake up and I'm like, sometimes I get up in the night to pee, and I'm like, oh, right, I'm in this.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

And that's a. When you get comfortable with that feeling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's another DAO thing. He who finds his Way in the morning, can gladly go in the evening. So there is even a practical thing to it, because when you recognize the nature, your nature, you get less afraid of. Of just protecting the body 100%.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's. That's a beautiful way of putting it. Because if there's anything that I think. Well, the analogy I like to use is that we're all actors playing characters. Yeah. Right. And so when I'm talking to someone, when I meet somebody, I'm trying to speak to the actor, not the character. So if someone's like pissed at me or disappointed at me, I'm like, to the actor. Yeah, I'm talking to the actor, not the character. Cause like, our characters could get entwined in some like, back and forth, like, fuck this, Fuck you. It's like, why can't I go in there? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when you have that presence of mind to go like, oh, I'm just gonna talk to the character and just be like, hey, the situation is probably not gonna change, but I just want you to know. Talk to the actor. Yeah, I recognize you as a conscious being and I. And I'm gonna give you that and I will disengage, you know, or whatever.

[B]

And when I really consider that when I close my eyes and I'm just this spacious, self luminous, self aware female.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that you are that field too, and how impersonal and boundaryless it is, there's no end to it. It's just. And that's you as well. I had that one last ketamine experience. We'll get out of here. Me and my friend Sam were doing it and we were laughing so hard, our eyes were closed. I'd just go, sam. And he'd go, pete, we thought it was so funny. That's a ketamine joke that you think you're Sam and I think I'm Pete.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But here it is. That sound was appearing in the one and only thing there is. And isn't it funny that we're pretending to be these characters when really there's just one actor?

[A]

Yeah, A hundred thousand.

[B]

Isn't that fun?

[A]

Thousand percent. And Reggie, I've always feel, because, you know, you have those instant friendships, you know, that you made, like especially like, for me. I've been going to a lot of festivals lately. And like you go to festivals and. And there's like a new person from another friend group or something, or just someone's just like weirdly just suddenly in your crew that you're Rolling around with or whatever. Yeah. And you just feel like you're the. You've been the best friends forever, you know, and. Yeah, maybe it's. You know, there's like, drugs and music and stuff, but, like, the spirit of it is not fake.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's.

[B]

So that's a sensation because you're recognizing your shared nature.

[A]

Yeah. And you're like, I recognize you within me within you. And you recognize you within me.

[B]

Right. And sometimes a stranger. It's easier to recognize the you and them.

[A]

Yeah. Because you have less history. Like we were talking about, like, if you live your life constantly projecting from the past, comparatively, you know, then you're just kind of sleepwalking a little bit.

[B]

You know, it's how I could get along very well with your parents. And you might have some issues with this. In this, and certainly with my parents. I was calling my mom on the way down, and I was doing that work where I was going. I didn't use your language, but I was going talk to the actor, the character. Pete and mom want such different things. And we're playing this weird boundary negotiation, and there's things that I just. My sovereignty will not allow that. And that's playing out. And then behind it, there's love. Is what we would say. The quickest way to say it is there's love. Even as we're going saying some really awful. To me, actually, where I was like, well, that's really hurtful. And I'm also like, it's.

[A]

It's so hard to just. You know, again, you're watching the actor play a character. Yeah. And, like, when things like that are said, you're like, it's. It's. It's hard to move because conceptually, in the past or like, in. In the future, you can think about what just happened in a way that's constructive. Like this. But, like, where you're like this. This is this person's disappointment within themselves, and they are using this conduit because it's been like this forever.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

We're gonna use that conduit to unleash on that. And when you're able to see it more in the moment, when you pull it more into the moment where you're like, it's still. I get it. And it's not uncomfortable in any way, but at least I know it's just them.

[B]

That's what it is. You can be doing that sort of Zen jiu jitsu.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also suffering. That's what I've learned is you're like, you think the suffering goes away.

[A]

It doesn't.

[B]

It doesn't. It's just another thing to forgive.

[A]

Yeah, that's totally it. And eventually, some people are able to have it just. They can. They can process it so quickly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That it becomes nothing before it even reaches them.

[B]

Right. That's what. That's what Rupert says. Like a bird going through the sky or a rock going through the sky. It leaves no trace. It just. It travels through your empty sky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're just like. And that's, you know, life goals.

[A]

It's like, that's it. That's not it. Where it just came with. That's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And it continues. That. That will always continue to be it. And that's all there is.

[B]

Let it glide.

[A]

Yeah. Let it glide. Let it glide. Let it glide.

[B]

I said, this is what my mom said. I said, we saw the trailer for a movie I'm in with my daughter. What an amazing moment. And every time I was on the screen, Lila went, dad, Daddy. I'm telling her, this mitzvah, this joy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And my mom goes, I'm surprised she recognizes you, because I travel.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I was just like. And I. You know what I did, you know, all the hurt, and I just go, because. Because I travel for work. Yeah.

[A]

She's like, yeah.

[B]

I was like, I just want to make sure I understand the joke. And I did. Good. Because I didn't go, like, right. But I could have done that, too.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like, sometimes when people come at me with stuff like that, obviously, moms are a little bit different, parents are different, but usually I'll just feel like if she said I was talking about Mom's service and they said something like that to me, I'd be like. Be like, how did I have it? Yeah. I'd just be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Me too. I thought that, too, too. But, yeah, our connection's, like, so strong. I guess it's just like, you know, whatever, you know?

[B]

Wait, wait, wait. You mean you and your mom's connection?

[A]

Like. Yeah. Like, so, like, let's say my mom.

[B]

Said, oh, you turn it into something loving. You're like, I've thought the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. And yet she still continues to recognize me.

[B]

That's.

[A]

And that shows you how strong our connection is.

[B]

I love that. You know, I get defensive. I'm like, we just went to Universal Studios.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, you have no idea what I do for this family or whatever.

[B]

The. Of course. But Rupert would always say, find the one on whose behalf. You're being defensive. He goes, just find it. We think we're these clusters of memories and thoughts and feelings and beliefs. He's like, show it to me. Every time I go back to myself.

[A]

It's the spacious field.

[B]

It's the most obvious thing in the world. So intimate. It's so obvious. Things like ketamine can show it to you, other experiences can show it to you. And then the trick is to hold on to that when you're talking to your mom.

[A]

Oh, my God, it's so true. That's. That's it. You heard it here, folks.

[B]

You heard it here.

[A]

First secret to life.

[B]

Would you sing the theme song live? You probably don't even remember it.

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I'm trying to remember the bass line. I know that rhythm, but I'm trying to. What are the notes? Cuz I'm like, yeah.

[B]

And it goes.

[A]

That's the only part. No, you. You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird. Oh, my. You did. Yes. You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird. Cuz we made it weird. Done.

[B]

Would you say, keep it crispy? Reggie, I love you so much. Thank you.

[A]

I love you. Amazing. Thanks.

[B]

Say, keep it crispy. It's how we end.

[A]

Keep it. Oh, keep it. Creepy. Sorry.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Keep.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Oh, together.

[B]

Just kidding.

[A]

I'm joking.

[B]

I was taking it very seriously as a joke. No, no, not cribby.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Crispy.

[B]

Say the whole thing, please.

[A]

I am. No, I. I mean, I will. You. You made. Is it. You made it. You made it. Okay. You've.

[B]

You've made it weird. The show is called you have made it weird. The catchphrase is remain crispy keepers.

[A]

You have. You have made it weird. Starring. You made it crispy. That's it. We did it.