Sabrina Zohar

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — Sabrina Zohar (July 9, 2025)

Podcast Summary by [your summarizer handle here]

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Episode Overview

In this fast-paced, heartfelt, and often hilarious episode, Pete Holmes welcomes Sabrina Zohar—relationship coach, entrepreneur, and host of “The Sabrina Zohar Show.” Together, they dive deep into the "secret weirdness" beneath dating, trauma, boundaries, and emotional growth, using their own stories to illuminate the psychological baggage and quirky coping mechanisms most people drag into adulthood. Sabrina's signature blend of candor and humor blends seamlessly with Pete’s riffing, making this an unusually insightful and personal episode centered on self-awareness, relationship pitfalls, family dynamics, empathy, and healing.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Understanding Emotional Triggers & Childhood Wounds: How family-of-origin issues shape adult relationships and emotional reactions.
• Relationships & Dating in Modern Life: Navigating boundaries, communication, and connection in both romantic relationships and dating apps.
• Personal Growth & Therapy: Ketamine therapy, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and the painful but powerful journey of healing.
• The Weirdness of Being Ourselves: Owning quirks, "dad jokes," and idiosyncratic humor, and how authenticity is a relationship strength.
• Boundaries and Accountability: Why setting and respecting healthy boundaries is vital, especially with difficult family members.

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Highlights, Insights, and Memorable Moments

Opening Banter: ADHD & Neurodiversity

• Sabrina and Pete share their experiences with ADHD, agreeing that their brains work differently and require extra communication and flexibility ([02:03]–[03:08]).
  • Quote: “When you have a spicy brain… you have to explain that to people. Yes, I work differently than you.” – Sabrina ([02:59])
• Pete jokes about getting “dickier” with age, as he learns to be more direct and less apologetic.

The Podcast Name Saga & Boundaries

• Sabrina shares the story of being forced to rename her podcast from “Do the Work” due to a trademark dispute with a fitness company, drawing out themes of assertiveness, resilience, and boundaries ([06:40]–[12:08]).
  • Quote: “It’s like a shitty breakup you didn’t expect coming.” – Sabrina ([10:44])
  • Quote: “They were just literally like, if it’s not done by this date, we’re gonna send it to Spotify. Your podcast will be down.” – Sabrina ([11:40])

Dad Joke Wars: What Qualifies

• Pete and Sabrina engage in a spirited debate over what makes a true “dad joke,” using examples and audience input to settle on definitions ([13:02]–[15:12]).
  • Example: Sabrina: “What do you call a pile of cats? A meow-ntain.” ([14:28])
  • Pete argues dad jokes must be lazy, situational, and repeatable under stress—such as “I’ll take a pico de gallo.”

Emotional Triggers and Button-Pushers

• Pete equates “badum bum” after a joke to a comedian’s worst insult. Sabrina’s “emotional slur” is when people say, “If he wanted to, he would,” as advice for relationships ([15:31]–[17:21]).
  • Quote: “If he wanted to, he would... I will bludgeon you to death if you say stupid shit like that.” – Sabrina ([16:01])

Oversimplification of Human Behavior

• Both hosts discuss the dangers of “bumper sticker slogans” in dating—how “if they wanted to, they would” completely oversimplifies the complexity of emotions and motivations ([17:07]–[19:35]).
  • Quote: “You’re completely oversimplifying human behavior.” – Sabrina ([17:16])
• Sabrina shares a stunning confession: as a younger, anxious dater, she once sent a guy 173 texts and showed up at his house with baking pans—a story punctuated by Pete’s “get the police involved!” ([20:07]–[20:53])

Family of Origin: Narcissism, Gaslighting, and Boundaries

• Sabrina’s father is described as a narcissist, serial dater, and former porn theater/gay club owner; Pete draws parallels to his own parent relationships ([22:29]–[25:48]).
  • Quote: “My father asked me to go on a trip and I had to make up... I can’t. My nervous system cannot handle the triggers and feeling like I’m six years old again.” – Sabrina ([30:11])
• Strategies for managing relationships with narcissistic parents: acceptance, limited contact, grieving “the version of you that never got the parent you needed” ([34:28]–[34:44])

Therapy, Healing Modalities, and Internal Family Systems (IFS)

• Sabrina and Pete both practice IFS and parts work, and discuss the importance of “witnessing your inner child,” not just understanding intellectually but validating and nurturing emotionally ([35:15]–[54:32]).
  • Quote: “Turns out that that child. You think you need therapy. It’s like that child actually needs witnessing.” – Pete ([36:43])
  • Quote: “I’ve been leaving her—our littles think they need to protect us.” – Sabrina ([37:12])
• Sabrina describes how ketamine-assisted therapy helped her meet her “little,” realize her pattern of self-abandonment, and begin true healing ([46:45]–[57:41]):
  • Quote: “That was the first time I met her… she looked at me and was like, ‘You abandoned me.’” – Sabrina ([56:45])
• Pete: “It’s really powerful to just get your little to see you as a grown up.”

Dating, Attachment, and Breaking Old Patterns

• They unpack how dating is often an unconscious replay of childhood wounds:
  • Quote: “What changed for me? That no one was going to come save me.” – Sabrina ([46:27])
• “The spark” in dating is exposed as often just trauma and pattern recognition, not connection—a “rush of blood to your phalanges so you can run” ([76:04]–[79:54]).

Modern Dating & Apps

• Sabrina defends dating apps (she met her partner on Hinge) but insists users “be a better buyer” and know what they actually need and want ([108:52]–[109:16]).
  • Quote: “Most people are not looking to be discerning… They’re seeing it as, ‘Maybe he’ll like me?’ instead of ‘What do I like about that?’” – Sabrina ([109:20])
• Emphasis on boundaries, not tolerating “breadcrumbing” or unclear intentions.

Emotional Regulation & Communication Skills

• The through-line is emotional regulation: you’re allowed to feel, but learn to “regulate your own goddamn emotions” and avoid unnecessary drama ([65:47]).
• Sabrina and Pete share exact scripts and “micro-strategies” for resolving disagreements:
  • Ask “Are you available for a conversation?” before sharing feelings ([69:30])
  • Use “I statements” (“I felt dismissed”) and don’t assign blame ([70:17])
  • Regularly check in on each other’s “availability” and emotional state.

Relationship Success & Micro-Work

• Pete and Sabrina agree that their best relationships (Pete with Val, Sabrina with Ryan) thrive on constant “micro work” and small solidarity signals—not grand efforts or constant struggle ([85:03]–[86:43]).
  • Quote: “It’s not about what happens in the sessions… it’s the moments in between.” – Sabrina ([86:07])
  • Daily strategies: “Will you join me in my initiative?” “I’m in my pain body right now.” “I’m offline.” ([87:23]–[90:03])

Humor as Coping and Connection

• Running jokes on dad humor and boundaries as defense mechanisms. Pete: “Find somebody who finds the way that you’re annoying to be delightful.” ([102:27])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “When you have a spicy brain… you have to explain that to people. Yes, I work differently than you.” – Sabrina ([02:59])
• “If he wanted to, he would… I will bludgeon you to death if you say stupid shit like that.” – Sabrina ([16:01])
• “You’re completely oversimplifying human behavior.” – Sabrina ([17:16])
• “I once sent a guy 173 texts… In a row.” – Sabrina ([20:07])
• “I do get comfort… We should all be doing worse.” – Pete ([51:19])
• “Self-awareness without action? What’s that?” – Sabrina ([52:42])
• “Turns out that that child… It’s like, that child actually needs witnessing.” – Pete ([36:43])
• “Find somebody who finds the way that you’re annoying to be delightful.” – Pete ([102:27])
• “Most people are not looking to be discerning… They’re seeing it as, ‘Maybe he’ll like me?’ instead of ‘What do I like about that?’” – Sabrina ([109:20])

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Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:59] — Neurodiversity and ADHD as “having a spicy brain”
• [10:44] — The trauma of forced podcast rebranding
• [13:02] — Dad joke debate; what counts as a “dad joke”
• [16:01] — Sabrina: “If he wanted to, he would…” as her personal trigger
• [20:07] — Sabrina’s 173-text dating meltdown confession
• [22:29] — Sabrina profiles her father as a narcissist and serial dater
• [34:28] — Discussion of grieving idealized parent relationships
• [35:15] — Internal Family Systems, “witnessing your inner child”
• [46:45] — How ketamine-assisted therapy jumpstarted Sabrina’s healing
• [65:47] — Most common client mistake: inability to regulate emotions
• [86:07] — Healthy relationships built on micro-moments, not big gestures
• [102:27] — Pete: “Find somebody who finds the way that you’re annoying delightful”
• [109:20] — Dating advice: Be a “better buyer” on the apps

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Flow & Tone

• Highly conversational and fast-paced—Sabrina’s rapid fire clarity is met with Pete’s spontaneous digressions and riffing.
• Deeply relatable vulnerability about mental health, family wounds, and self-doubt, tempered with frequent humor and nonjudgmental banter.
• Solutions are always practical, self-aware, and focused on agency and accountability rather than wishful thinking or blaming others.

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Final Takeaways

• Emotional triggers and maladaptive coping start in the family—awareness is just the first step; integrating and nurturing your “inner child” is necessary for deep healing.
• Healthy relationships are built on authenticity, micro-communication, mutual respect for boundaries, and radical accountability.
• In dating, know what you want, be a discerning participant, and don’t settle for “breadcrumbing” or mixed signals—no matter how “spark-y” someone seems.
• Manifesting and self-work are real when coupled with action and honesty, not magical thinking.
• Humor and acceptance of one’s weirdness are tools for connection, not obstacles.

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Listen If You...

• Want to laugh and feel seen about dating and family dysfunction
• Need clarity and encouragement for setting boundaries and healing childhood wounds
• Appreciate vulnerability, irreverence, and a wary stance toward TikTok-therapy cliches

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Find Sabrina’s podcast, The Sabrina Zohar Show, on all major platforms for more fast-talking, deep-dives on dating, relationships, and growth.

“Keep it crispy!”

[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Sabrina Zohar]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Sabrina Zohar, who is the host of the aptly named Sabrina Zohar Show. She's a relationship expert, she's an entrepreneur, she's a media personality, and like I said, a relationship coach. So I thought it would be deeply interesting to sit down, sit down and talk with her. And I was right. I'm very happy to say she is brilliant, thoughtful, interesting, emotionally intelligent and has a lot of great stuff to offer. So I'm so glad. Stuff. You know what I mean? Insight. That's a better word than stuff. She's a lot of great insight to offer and a lot of laughs as well. So we had a lot of fun and I'm so glad you're here. Not much to say up top. Come see me on the road. Go to PeteHomes.com I'm going to be in Houston this weekend. We are going to be in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. That's me and Nick Kroll and Kumail and Anthony Jeselnik. That's on July 19, followed by Los Angeles, Washington, D.C. boston on August 23. Hope to see you there. Boston, New Hampshire, Spokane, Washington, St. Louis, Cleveland, Florida, Chicago, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All of those are available on PeteHomes.com and in the meantime, enjoy this chat with the wonderful Sabrina Zohar. I'm so glad you're here. Get into it. You're welcome to have one. That's for you. It's actually part of the con.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Go to the set.

[Pete Holmes]

You do love it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do, actually.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Like, genuinely. I used to drink those every morning and I was. Cuz I don't drink coffee.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't seem like you need it, right? That's not a burn. That's. I was listening to your podcast. I kind of feel like a jerk that I said Emily will interrupt the show. Do you know that? It's where we're starting. Is that okay?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm a dick more often than I'm not.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm. I'm getting a little bit dickier as I get older. And I'm like, maybe that's it. Or maybe that's just an excuse. I'm showing I'm being myself more. And like I was telling as I was walking, the minute her publicist is coming, but she's not here. And that bugs me because now she's gonna like come in and there's but it's not actually an inability to have compassion for someone who's running late. It's more of like a almost spectrumy hyper focus, where I'm like, no, you're here. Me and Sabrina, we're gonna start, and now there's gonna be these people walking in, and there's just gonna. Who cares, though?

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, I get it. My brain. You have to. I have adhd. My brain works differently.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what it is.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's just. It's a different way of seeing things to the normal person, to the average person, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Big deal, right?

[Sabrina Zohar]

They're like.

[Pete Holmes]

You can say normal neurotypicals.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right? They're like, when you have a little bit of a spicy brain. And I actually have to explain that to people of, like, yes, I work differently than you. Like, it's not. We're not all the same lived experience.

[Pete Holmes]

I really appreciate that. Thanks for that. I think it might be a little bit. I'm quick to claim autism, but it might just be adhd, even though I got tested for that. Who cares? So glad you're here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Likewise.

[Pete Holmes]

Thanks for being here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Thanks for having me.

[Pete Holmes]

We were listening to your podcast just a moment ago, and Katie said, is that sped up?

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I hear it all the time. And then people meet and they're like, so it's not.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I didn't. I did turn it off and go, I'm gonna get this live.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you were giving. I think I picked a good episode of the Sabrina Zohar podcast.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Sabrina Zohar show. Show semantics, if you will.

[Pete Holmes]

Should have been. I bet if you type in podcast, it'll show up.

[Sabrina Zohar]

In hindsight, that would have made more sense, but here we are.

[Pete Holmes]

It's still a show.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's a show.

[Pete Holmes]

You show up.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're doing it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was called something else, and I got forced to change the name.

[Pete Holmes]

I know when you Google your name, as I do for a little Reese, it says, why did Sabrina Zohar change the name of her show? That's like, the first thing. I actually think the first thing is husband. Oh. But I don't even know if you're married. Is that your husband?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Boyfriend?

[Pete Holmes]

That's your boyfriend?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, he works with me, who I just bossed around. Yeah. That's okay. He takes it. He's. He's with me, so he deals with enough of someone bossing him.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm a little dead, but he was on. He should be sitting right there, enjoying the glow of his. Of his beloved. But. How long you been together?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Two and a half years.

[Pete Holmes]

That's beloved status. Long enough you can get some kind of, like, heavy language in there.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm okay with the heavy language on that one. It's more when people are like, your husband, like, don't go that far.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Although isn't it kind of fun when you're dating somebody and somebody says. Says. Sometimes it's like an unhoused person. I'm not trying to be funny. And they go like, you and your beautiful wife. Like somebody. And I'll be like, I don't know. It was trump. You and your beautiful wife. I don't know why that. But like, I. I used to like it when someone Me. Me. Marriage material. Like, I would take it like that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I know when people are like, your. Your wife. And I see Ryan chuckle, and I'm like, not yet. So there. There's a part of B that gives him. That's a whole nother story. But yes, he's very used to me talking fast, bossing him around.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not bossing him around, but like, being very vocal about what do I like and need. So we're here for it. I love it. You're setting. I'm here for it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying, what did it? Which boundary did I set?

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, I want you to go and deal with that because I would like to get started. And it's like, you know what, Brain?

[Pete Holmes]

Cheers. Because Val, my wife, is very non confrontational, and I sort of am the confrontational one of the relationship. And like, we're always trying to get the mix just right of where is. Where do you say you'll wait for Emily? And whenever I do it, the reason I brought Val up is she'll be like, really? It's not like a Prince Charming moment, But she's like, oh, I couldn't have done that. One of the main features in our relationship and I just did this because I'm always doing it, is we'll decide. We have to go. We have to go. We have somewhere we need to be. But she's saying goodbye to everybody. And I'll come up and I go, this is over. But I do it with the hand. And then we start walking away. And Val's like, oh. And I just go, I'll just do the hand again. It's like playful jerk energy. Pje.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just leave it at bj. And then that's it. Yeah, perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

Bj.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Bj.

[Pete Holmes]

You said pj.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, whoops. No, it shows you reminder. And I'm like, bj, Right? Yeah, that's. We were talking we weren't talking about it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a comedy podcast. I think you upgraded it perfect to bj.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do. I took the assignment. I'm gonna make it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

So tell me you will. Tell me you haven't yet. Tell me why you. It was called do the Work.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm assuming that's been copywritten. Is that the problem?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was trademarked. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And do the Work, which is so funny because, like, it's like, get out there, right?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's like, oh, okay, breathe.

[Pete Holmes]

Be yourself. Have fun. Be yourself is what stand ups all say to each other as a joke. Because that's what everybody says.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They're like, be yourself or have fun. It's like, okay, I'm not gonna do.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Either of those, but cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, that easier said than done. But. So who sued you or who cease and desisted you?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was some dude in Arizona. And because everybody thought it was this one creator that has quite a bit called do the Work. And I'm like, no, she and I are cool. Like, that was never it. She actually was like, kudos when I named it that. And for me, like, I don't know, I started this thing and I bought this phallic looking mic on Amazon and it was very pretty. And I. I literally took a selfie of me on the counter being like. I kept telling friends, like, what should I call this show? And they're like, I don't know. I kept being like, why aren't we doing the work? They called that do the Work. And I was like, okay. And I just thought, who? Same to you. Who. Who could have trademarked this? And I have a clothing company called Software, and I was always told, you can' mark usable words. Okay. So I let it go. Year and a half later, I'm literally sitting down to record. And at this point, the show is doing so well that even I was shocked. I, like, didn't. I didn't expect this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, fun. That never happened.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Limiting beliefs were tested at that point.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, good.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I got. I literally had this email and as I'm putting my phone down, Ryan's like, put your phone down, babe. It's time to record. And I'm like, one more second. And I just see and just like, cease and desist. Do the work. And I was like, I couldn't comprehend what that meant.

[Pete Holmes]

Meant, stop doing the work. Yeah, you're doing too much.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I was doing too much work. Tell my therapist that. And I literally, I put my phone down and it Just that was the beginning of the, like the worst three weeks of my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really? It got nasty.

[Sabrina Zohar]

God, it got nasty because they didn't even want to have a conversation. They were like, two weeks. We're going to be. You don't change your name. We're going to take take down requests. We're going to come after for revenue and all this. And I'm like, I'm a new business owner. I don't know, talking to the lawyers. I'm doing all this stuff. Had to change it.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you watch? Have you. I don't want to say it's a boy movie, but I will say more boys than girls. That I know. I think it's John Wick. I'm kidding. It's the Social Network. Have you seen the Social Network?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

From the day he gets a cease and desist and he just throws it away. And I. I'm not saying that's what you should have done, but I admire. I'm a real rule, believe it or not, as much as I'll tell your beautiful beloved to go wait for Emily and make a little kind of joke about how inconvenienced I am. That's. That's one way I'm comfortable being a petty bitch. But if somebody gives me a cease and desist, I just go, like, we must stop.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I wanted to end him. And I was like, that's not legal.

[Pete Holmes]

So you mean murder.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was close.

[Pete Holmes]

Why? Because they were so rude about it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was. Yeah, I mean, granted, he had his lawyer and it was just this arrogance. Like, if you go on his website, he's like, we go after the trademark. And you're like, yeah, relax, man. Like, you do it for yourself. But you just sound like you're salty. You sound like you're salty and you're upset that I am doing something that has nothing to do. He's in real estate and fitness. Nothing to do.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's called do the Work. Real estate fitness.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just do the work. That's it. So shout out to his business right now. And so I literally, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Because how can we find out more about his business? How can we do it? I was gonna say, can we sign up?

[Sabrina Zohar]

How can we. How can we do the work? So it was.

[Pete Holmes]

There they are.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Hello.

[Pete Holmes]

I have a fresh apology. It's already out. It's okay. We didn't. Wait. Emily, can you close that door? Jesus, Louisa. Were you not racing a podcast studio? I'm just kidding. Welcome, welcome, welcome. So excited. I thought maybe you work. You do work. Together. But on a scale of 1 to 10, how appropriate was it for me to say, will you go out? Wait for Emily? It was a 10.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I told him. I was like, boundaries. It was boundaries.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good name.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Here we are. Look, we're supportive.

[Pete Holmes]

Welcome only. You're welcome.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's a great, safe space.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's a safe space. You're welcome to Avita Coco. Is it Vita Coco.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Vita Coco.

[Pete Holmes]

I should know.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Anyway, we love you.

[Pete Holmes]

We love you, Vita. Yeah. There you go.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Product placement.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so this is the derailment that I was anticipating. But what were you just saying? It's on you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, fuck. So now my.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you. You couldn't call it do the Work because of a real estate fitness company.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So essentially, you had to change the name. And in that moment, it's like a breakup. It's like a shitty breakup that you didn't expect coming.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you think, remember when Nathan Fielder did Dumb Starbucks? It was actually right around the corner in this neighborhood. So he. Like, it was a parody law. If you call it Dumb Starbucks, you could have called it, like, dumb do the work or do the work, dummy. Or, like, do the work for exclamation points. Like, at what point? I'm not a lawyer. Why are we even talking about.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I tried. I.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you consider something like that?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Everything I trademarke, I spent about $15,000 trademarking random names because I was, like, throwing pasta and, like, will they do Doing the work with Super Nazohar? Will they do do the work with six exclamation points? Literally everything you did, exclamation point. We tried everything.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And everything came back rejected.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding. Really?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Rejected. Everything. Too close.

[Pete Holmes]

Too close to who did you send it to? This guy, the lawyer. This is absurd. I'm mad about this. I don't know what you did, but I feel like there's some guy I know who, like, wears a gun on his belt, and he's a lawyer. Who could have done it?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Who? He would have been a little more elbow grease, and I probably would have pac extra, but I would have been fine with that. I just don't know him. Yeah, the lawyer. I had to buy the books, right? He did everything illegal, which is, like, for the birds, but he. He tried. He was going back and forth, conversations to call. They were just literally, like, said, if it's not done by this date, we're gonna send it to Spotify. Your podcast will be down. And we're like, okay, never mind. It was a lot of bullying. Now hindsight's 20 20. Could there have been a thing? Sure. But I'm 10 months into a new name. I'm not changing it back.

[Pete Holmes]

My eyes are so bad, my hindsight is 10 10. I don't know what's a bad one. I tried to do a Woody Allen.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Hey, oh, dad joke. I'm here for it, though.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, I'm gonna say, people. People throw out dad jokes a lot. And I'm like, that's fair. But I don't know if that's a dad joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Well, felt like one. But I. Regardless of it, honestly, I think that's.

[Pete Holmes]

That is the marker. So for you, it was.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm not gonna take that away from you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I appreciate that.

[Pete Holmes]

But for me, it wasn't. I will tell you a story.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Please.

[Pete Holmes]

I was in a line for food, and this guy behind me recognized that I was a comedian, and he told me two street jokes, and that's fine, but they were like. One of them was like, about his. His ding dong being Jose and then Hose B or something. It's like one of those. Yeah, yeah, exactly. By the way, if someone tells a comedian a joke, it's that or it's racist. And that one is both. A little bit.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, isn't it funny that Jose is a name? Is kind of like, the implication of that joke. Anyway, then I told him my favorite street joke, which is a pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel in his pants. And the bartender says, hey, you got a steering wheel in your pants? And the pirate says, ARR. And it's driving me nuts. Right? And that's funny. And then he said, that's a bit of a dad joke. And I. I'm being real with you. I whited out a little bit. I kept it cool, but in my mind, I was like, you can't tell street jokes to a comedian. Have him return the fucking bullshit.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And then.

[Pete Holmes]

And then go, that's a dad joke. And what I did say was like, yours were also dad jokes. Like, what is this? So I don't think this is what you were doing.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, definitely not.

[Pete Holmes]

But sometimes people do say, dad joke is like, nice try. Oh, no. Again, not what I thought you were doing. But I was like, it's just a joke. If a dad joke is like, do we have any salsa? I'll take a pico de gallo. Like, that's a dad joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Can I give you a good one? You tell me if it's a good job.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's decide. This is. Welcome to. Is it a dad joke, which turns out is a real estate company in Florida. So the lawsuit is pending, but go ahead.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You might get hit with a season.

[Pete Holmes]

This is the new for Patreon only. I'm just kidding. But is it a dad joke?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay, so there are two. I was told the original joke and I changed it a little bit. So there's two starts to it. I'm gonna just choose my favorite.

[Pete Holmes]

I like it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay. What do you call a pile of cats?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Sabrina Zohar]

A mountain. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I like it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not bad. Not bad.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think that's a dad joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's not?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay, well, it's a good thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I. You know why?

[Sabrina Zohar]

No. Why?

[Pete Holmes]

Because pico de gallo. I'll take a pico de gallo is. I think it. For it to be a dad joke, it has to be something that you could think of while under the stress of parenting at least two children. Valid and meontain. Maybe if you were like, it's a mountain of cats. It's a ma. Then he goes a mountain.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But he's too sleep deprived to just go. The restraint to go. What do you call a pile? Now we have a synonym, you know, a playful. I don't think so.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I understand. I appreciate your understanding of the dad joke in the brain that it takes.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm here for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Dad jokes are. Dad jokes are like. I think they have to be kind of lazy because you're tired and they have to be ordinary situations. I don't know. I didn't know I had such strong feelings about dad jokes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Neither did I. But I'm now really excited to see what comes next on the podcast of how many different areas of opportunity we're going to have for dad jokes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. I just don't want. And we'll find it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to say on the record as many times as I can that badumpum is a slur to a comedian. That if we make a joke and you go, badum bum, I'll burn your house down.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

Not yours, because you're lovely. But I'm just saying, if I don't know you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, it's done.

[Pete Holmes]

And no one's home and you're insured and you say badambum, I happen to have a can of gasoline in a match. I might. I might burn.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I know. I appreciate the commitment to that, actually, because.

[Pete Holmes]

Pretty strange situation, but go ahead.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's how I feel about when people come to me and they're like, if he wanted to, he would. I'm like, I will fucking bludgeon you to death if you say stupid shit.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, if he wanted to, he would.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, that's in the dating and relationship world.

[Pete Holmes]

This is your slur.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's my slur.

[Pete Holmes]

Slur might be wrong, but, you know, people know what we're trying to say.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Button push.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a bad one.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's the bad one. Or the. Like, what does that mean?

[Pete Holmes]

If he wanted to, he would.

[Sabrina Zohar]

God.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you mean like, if he wanted to do the dishes, he would.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Like that very. That just flippant statement of like, well, if he wanted to, he was. And it's like, okay, so you don't have critical thinking skills is what you're telling me when we use these, like, bumper sticker slogans. But I get a lot of people that try to oversimplify, right? Or the. Like, it'll happen when you least expect it. And you're like, off. It's very invalidating. And it's just those. It's the things that people say because they're uncomfortable.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's take each one of those one by one.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay?

[Pete Holmes]

The first one is if he wanted to, he would. What is this? I said do the dishes. But what is the example that you mean?

[Sabrina Zohar]

So where people are using it now, like, especially on Tick Tock University, is it'll be like, that guy didn't text you after the first date. Well, if he wanted to, he would. And you're like, oh, okay. So people use the statement.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, he's just not that into you, kind of.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes, but the problem with yes, I mean, that's the. The kind of. I think the. The end goal of it. But the problem is when you use it, you're completely oversimplifying human behavior.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And to say, like, well, he didn't want to. And it's like, I want to be a millionaire. Well, I guess I don't want it bad enough. It's like, nah, man. Because it's not about want.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a relationship version of I forgot what I was going to say. And someone says, well, it must have not been very important, right? And Steve Martin had the old joke where he goes, oh, yeah, I remember. I'm radioactive. Which is perfect, because why does forgetting mean not important? There's no correlation there. And in fact, there's a lot of presuppositions of if he wanted to, he would. That people know what they want, that people behave in accordance with what they want, and that that's reliable. You know what I'm saying? Like, people are Often doing impressions. Like, I remember when I was. We should get into this. And I didn't want to rush it because I'd rather. I want to talk about your mom and dad. But I rem.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, don't we all?

[Pete Holmes]

Don't we all. Can we call them? I. I just remember when I was dating briefly, I was single. It doesn't matter. And during that time, I did the most dating I ever did. And you go out on a date and. And people would tell me, don't text them right away. That. That sort of stuff.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So if he wanted to, he would. Or I'm getting bad Advice from Joe DeRosa.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You Joe De Rosa?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, no. I think that's. You're in good company. I'm kidding. We love you, Joe derosa. Do. No, but Joe was a person that helped me because I was very naive and very like, you go in real fast and like, maybe you should pump the brakes and maybe just take a day before. But that didn't mean I didn't want to.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I. There are so many things that I want to do in life that I have limiting beliefs. I have childhood. I have all of these different variables that might be stopping me from want. And I think we. What I'm struggling with and whether this be dating relationships or even just in the world right now is like, we're trying to oversimplify really complex aspects of things because it makes us uncomfortable to have to go any deeper. And so if I can just slap on. Right. I mean, we just saw. Let Them. Right. Became like the anthem of the goddamn year. But like, nobody, I think, really understands what does that mean? And when we stop to take a minute and like, that's just me. I like to get deep. I like to understand things. I like to really understand human behavior because I think there's so much more than just like. Like you said, I had a great day. Well, oh, he didn't want to call me. It's like, well, maybe that person, like, had a flight first thing in the morning. Like, we don't know why are you.

[Pete Holmes]

Interpreting it in a way that is, like, hurtful to you?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, that's when we see it through the lens of my core beliefs and what my lived experience is. And this is how I. That what I see is if that's the. If I'm going to go from this person didn't text me to. If they wanted to, they would. That means they don't like me. That's black and white thinking. And then when that shows me is like, that's your insecurity. You're projecting that onto them again. That's not throwing shade because I used to do that. I was the epitome of a hot mess. Oh, you don't even want to know, Pete. You don't even want to know. In my heyday, I texted 173 times because he didn't want to go and see me again after, like, a fourth or fifth date.

[Pete Holmes]

You. In a row? Yeah, 173 times. Like, oh, that's get the police involved.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Correct.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Showed up his house with a gift, and luckily he was. I bought him baking pans.

[Pete Holmes]

Baking pan.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He was a baker and he had. In New York. It's where I lived in the city. And he had. He had, like, a mini. I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Baking pants.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He had told me he text them 173 times. I know. I did it.

[Pete Holmes]

How many baker's dozen texts is that? That's so many. Don't do it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Don't do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't waste your brain on it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

For anybody that's listening, I wouldn't advise this.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand you're. You're helping us, but I was.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was her.

[Pete Holmes]

But he was nice about it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Nice enough. The. But we ended up hanging out years after he, like, acted as if that didn't happen. And I was like, are you okay? Because I don't know why you ever want to see me again.

[Pete Holmes]

That's bizarre.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Very bizarre.

[Pete Holmes]

But you mean romantically. He went back.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Wanted to hang out, like, a month. Like, a few months later. It was just like, hey, you. And I was like, did you see the thread? Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Just a little scroll. Maybe. Maybe every once in a while, your phone will, like, reboot and. In the favor of the psycho. You're the psycho in this game.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The hot to crazy ratio was like, we were on the cusp. Right? Like, I was looking good.

[Pete Holmes]

Not too crazy.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But, you know, I was pushing the boundaries.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You're 173texts hot.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was. I was 173text hot.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're not 175.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, no, no. I was just saying, push it one more and we're done.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. But you have to be Scarlett Johansson. She could do 200. Probably.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Probably. I feel like she could push the. Even the 250 and be like, has.

[Pete Holmes]

Jo ever been ghosted?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Who is she dating now? That would be the question. She with somebody?

[Pete Holmes]

Is she with somebody? Oh, congest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh. So she doesn't need to worry about it.

[Pete Holmes]

She goes to him all the time probably just to keep it spicy.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Healthy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Healthy. She'll send a gif of the Avengers. Like her and the Avengers. Someone not her in the Avengers.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Make just a little role play.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, ScarJo.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you don't role play with ScarJo. You go, I'm with Scarlett Johansson. Like, that's. That's.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I need to pretend everyone else's role.

[Pete Holmes]

Play, I suppose, is this. That. Is that dehumanizing to her? I just.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm sorry if it is, but I'm sure she's lovely.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I do it to Brad Pitt. I'm just saying. These are the babes. Heavy lies the crown on the head of the babes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was gonna say. And you could kind of do anything you want when you're those babes. Like, if they text me 173 times, I'd be like, just another Saturday.

[Pete Holmes]

But yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Me doing it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Wasn't cute. It wasn't a good look. And needless to say, I was so goddamn anxious. It was so in my head, like, I would just do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. What was the issue?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Daddy issues?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah. Your dad owned a porn theater.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Research.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Hey.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, and was he gay or. He owned a gay club.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He owned a gay club.

[Pete Holmes]

So he isn't that weird that I'm like, well, he must be gay. I'm like, what am I, the 80s? Oh, he's gay.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was gonna say I was like, you just. Okay, it's fine. We haven't.

[Pete Holmes]

Trying to corral all his options into one club.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The irony is.

[Pete Holmes]

Or he just loved Cash.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He did.

[Pete Holmes]

He loved Cash. Not man ash.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, but close. Same. Same, but different.

[Pete Holmes]

He loved a little man ash, probably.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Who knows?

[Pete Holmes]

He dabbled.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I don't think he dabbled.

[Pete Holmes]

Mustache.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He.

[Pete Holmes]

He had a mustache.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He did. Oh, he had the like 70s porn star mustache. Oh, yeah. He had so much chest hair that, like, his gold chains would stick. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I have news for you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Your dad was gay.

[Sabrina Zohar]

This is how I find out.

[Pete Holmes]

This is how you find out.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He's in his 60s.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes you need someone from the outside, like Sling Blade.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I. I wish you could meet him. If you saw even my father is the.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way. Oh, he's still. He's still with us.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Thank God.

[Pete Holmes]

Is he the kind that would be mad that I made that joke?

[Sabrina Zohar]

He would probably look into. He would just do the like but. Or he would laugh. But he is the type. Like, he is the boys I've avoided all of my life. Like, he dates 25 year olds that are yeah. Maybe now in his. He's moved on to women in their 30s, which is really lovely to see because at least there's a prefrontal cortex that's developed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But he loves. He. He goes from woman to woman. His words to me were, why would I take a woman to dinner when I can get what I want after a drink? And I was like, oh, your dad.

[Pete Holmes]

Said that to you?

[Sabrina Zohar]

To me, When I was like, why? Like, how many women do you go out with, like, in a week? And he was. I was like, you take him to dinner. He's like, who needs to take him to dinner? I'll get what I want after a drink. And I was like, oh, so, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, that's. He's a very damaged individual, very narcissistic, very, like, gets his validation by getting women.

[Pete Holmes]

And he hasn't figured out that. That. That isn't, like, a long standing solution.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I mean, he's in. He's almost 70, so I guess it's worked for him up to this point, and now he's in the, like, I don't need women. I'll just be by myself. And I'm like, that's the progression when you don't want to do any work on yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

That was a national holiday for women. Right. When your dad was like, maybe I'm done.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just delete the app.

[Pete Holmes]

Why would I buy myself dinner when I can get what I want after a drink?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was the sigh of relief. Just collective.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a national holiday.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. That's crazy. I know so little about your dad, but I feel. I know so much.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was gonna say, you don't need to know too much, but why did he tell you?

[Pete Holmes]

That is kind of like he doesn't.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Even realize half the thing. But if you ask him now, he'd go, I didn't say that. It's like, oh, right. Duh. Of course you didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I have some overlap with my family here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Do you?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

In which ways?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, when therapists are like, you should speak your truth or try to have some connection or, like, people find it beneficial before they're gone to, like, try and have them hear you. And I'm like, that's not happening. And what you're saying is, for people, like, I love my family. I'm just saying, like. Like, not everybody's that way. Meaning if you do bring something up, it'll be deflected.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We have to look at what's the secondary gain. Right. It was something I learned recently about secondary gains that I was really excited to learn about. And it's like, okay, so you have your primary gain, of course, of like, oh, your father, he doesn't want to talk about it. It's like, what's the secondary gain? What's really under the hood? Oh, well, if he acknowledges either of our family members, if they acknowledge the pain that was caused, then what comes with that? That comes with acknowledging I hurt you. I have to take accountability of. Oh, no, no, no. Now we're just getting off the rails.

[Pete Holmes]

I never knew that. Yeah, I've heard that. And I do want to put my family to one side. So I can just speak more bluntly. I don't want to bore everybody with all of my. My therapist called them pop up ads where I'll be like, you know, my parents said the best they could or whatever. Let's just put them to one side. And I'll say that people with narcissistic personality disorder, it's been taught to me that if they apologize, it's like death to them. Because if you admit that, the whole thing falls down. Is that what you've also heard?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's about having somebody? Because narcissists, it's like not the. Again, not the tick tock version of like, he's a narcissist. And you're like, no, he just didn't call you. Okay. Like, that's not what. That's not narcissist. What actually is. Like, there's grandiosity. Right? So like an example, I'll tell my dad something simple of like, oh, wow, blueberries are $7 here. Like. And he'll be like, I bought them for three. And you're like, okay, enjoy. I didn't just this always one upping you.

[Pete Holmes]

He's putting on sneakers to beat you to the car.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Correct.

[Pete Holmes]

What the.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. And it's like that insecur security within them. Same with the no vulnerability. Like, they don't believe in being vulnerable. They don't believe in taking accountability. They don't have empathy for other people. When you start to see that, you're like, so what are the choices? Right. Like your therapist is saying, like, put them to one side. It's like, either I can accept these people for who they are and have them in my life in this capacity.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Or I can put up boundaries and say, no, thank you. What do narcissists hate? Boundaries. Because if you say no to them, they take that as the ultimate.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just. How dare you.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right, right, right, right. I've Noticed that there. That's been my work this month is like, I feel like there wasn't a ton of relationship, and there was just a lot of, like, if you show up as my loving child, I'll know that I'm. That I'm worthy of a loving child. Or, like, people see that. You know what I'm saying?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, I'll just tell you what I'm thinking. It is vulnerable, but, like, my dad will be like. He'll text me, like, I feel like you haven't called in a while.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, honestly, I'm being real. There is fake compassion, but there's real compassion. There's both. I'll have both. Fake and real. It's like, I do feel kind of bad for everybody where I'm just like, man, we don't have, like, you know, I. I miss talking to you. I love talking to you. Like, you know, I have my friends and stuff, but there's just something about talking to my son that is just so special. And we could even just be together. That would just be. That would fill me up if we could just be together. But it's just like, you haven't called in a while. It's a beckoning for, like, a performance. And that's what I realized. So much of it's like a kiss the ring. A kiss the ring. Keep the status quo kind of thing going on. And what I've really wanted and what gets harder as you get older is they want. Want a regressed version of you to show up.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, well, think about, too. It's like that. Also, what are they doing? Because my dad does the same stuff of like, I haven't heard from you in a while. And I remember I told Ryan, my partner, I said, I have to. I need to call my dad. And he just looks at me and he goes, but he's like, do you need to. And he's like, or does the phone work two ways? And he was like, in the last six months, who's called who? And I looked, and I'm like, the never called me once because. What? It's the victim.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's. That's. Oh, God, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna jump off a cliff. I'm just kidding.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's okay. I hold your hand while you do it. I'm with you on it.

[Pete Holmes]

When you have Thelma and Louis, is it y.

[Sabrina Zohar]

When you have narcissistic parents, it's like, oh, you see it? You're like, oh, my God. You get It.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And keep going. I mean, like, I. I love what you're saying. It is like a God. It's so sad, actually, but, like, when I see people who have families that, like, everybody calls each other, but they're calling each other to, like, know about your life and be in your life and, like, share your life and, like, all of that stuff, like, can you relate to this? Like, sometimes I'm. I feel conflicted, like I want to send them a picture or something, but then I know it'll just of leverage. Like, why don't you come more? I should see this in real life or whatever. And you're like, you just start building these very sad boundaries where you're, like, doing a lot of surrendering of what you had always hoped for and just going like, but this is what it is. My therapist told Me, this is Dr. Gay Penn. This is a couple therapists ago. But he was like. And I've said this to my mom. I'm like, we're as close as we are. It's such a crazy thing to have to say.

[Sabrina Zohar]

True.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, I wish you would come more. And it's like, well, we're as close as we are.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Because without. I'm the same. My father asked me to go on a trip and I had to make up. And I was like, no, no, we can't, because I can't. My nervous system cannot handle the triggers and feeling like I'm six years old again every time I'm with him. Because when nobody. Nothing changes. If nothing changes. And so what happens, right? What are the choices? You can go to see your parents, and you're like, I'm the one that has to make the concessions. I'm the one that has to change my behavior. I'm the one that has to watch myself. You're not doing. You're not facilitating.

[Pete Holmes]

It's exhausting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exhausting. Because you're constantly on. Talk about survival. You're constantly on edge, hyper vigilant.

[Pete Holmes]

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[Sabrina Zohar]

It's like performative. Right. At that point.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I will say this. Like the one aspect I think when it comes to like the narcissistic par parent or dealing with these types of dynamics, whether your parents an actual narcissist or has the tendencies is also what you're describing as well as like grieving. Because part of doing this, doing the work. Don't trademark me. Part of doing this work. Part of showing up differently and like understanding yourself and going back to your littles. Like the little Pete that didn't have the dad that he wanted.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Didn't have that relationship. You're grieving and it's also really difficult to look at this person because they're not dead. They're right in front of you. Maybe. Right. For some people they might not be. And you have to one, accept them for who they are. Grieve the version of you that experienced the version of that. The one that you had as a kid.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And then accept them. And there's so many conflicting emotions. And going on to your point, want is all the way at the bottom.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What I need might be up here. And so what you're doing and by saying like, hey, this is the closest we're gonna be because I need space from you. Otherwise I'm not going to be able to have a relationship. That's your choice.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And something's changing. Because something's changing. But it's is up to you. What do you do? I mean like as we're talking about this, it sounds like maybe you've done parts work.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, I love parts work.

[Pete Holmes]

Pw.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. You're into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I love, I feel like every internal family systems session because that's my current therapist, Claudia. I love her to death. And every session of internal family systems therapy is like, I don't want to exaggerate, but I will say it's like 50 regular sessions. I would say it's 50 times more. That's a lot.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's a lot. It's on steroids.

[Pete Holmes]

It's incredibly on steroids. And who knew? I'm gonna put this back to you but like who knew? What you're saying is I've spent so much time in like a dream. Like it's not hypnosis but you're going in and you're talking to your, this nine year old version of you in your childhood bedroom. And what really shocks me about it is, is when they ask you questions like what is he doing? Or can he hear you when you say that? Or does he have any questions for you? When you practice it a little bit you get really good at hearing your unconscious and it, it is talking to you all the time. Meaning it's not make them ups. I told my therapist I was like, I'm not doing any makeup ups. Like if someone hypnotizes me and say we're going to find your past lives, I'm not going to pretend that I was Julius Caesar. Like I'm just not going to do it. And in the same way here I'm like very rigorous about no, I'm not nervous that you're watching me do this. I'm only going to tell you what this kid says 100 and he, and he says stuff and it's consistent and it's. And it's real. And it turns out that that child. You think you need therapy. It's like that child actually needs witnessing.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And the child more than like one thing that changed it for me when I first saw my little. That's like, you know, you know what I mean when I say that when I first saw her and she like looked at me and she's like, you know, abandoned me and I didn't realize for years. I'm like, I've been leaving her. Right? We think about every time think about the way we speak to ourselves. I'm so stupid. You're telling that to your little. You're reaffirming to your little. I don't trust you. You're. There's something wrong with you. And when we start to connect to them, like even right before, right before I walked in, my, my coach doing the like, is it your exiled part or is it your manager part? Like who's trying to protect you right now?

[Pete Holmes]

You did therapy on the way here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Through via voice note. Like we were just catching up in between sessions because I have my own limiting beliefs. I have my own fears.

[Pete Holmes]

Text. I have all the wrong questions. So you're just sending long voice memos.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And she's also like one of my Best friends.

[Pete Holmes]

So we Conflict of interest?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Nah. Thank God she's not licensed as a therapist.

[Pete Holmes]

I have a million wrong questions. I like to think I'm a pretty good interviewer, but I'm just taking you off of the meat of what you were saying.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'll say we can eat the fat. I'm here for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me. Tell me what you were saying. You said the protector. What was she coaching through on the way in?

[Sabrina Zohar]

So, essentially, and I'll give it more. Something that people can understand. I don't want to go super deep into the complex relationship where, like, you lost me. But, for instance, like, I've woken up. Like, we think about triggers, right? A trigger is a neutral action. Or inaction. People misconstrue triggers all the time. Of, like, I've been watching Mormon Wives, the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, the show, and every other second it's like, well, that was really triggering. And it's like, no, that guy came and screamed in your face. That's disrespect. That's not a trigger. Anybody would say off.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I was.

[Pete Holmes]

That's aggression.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's aggression. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Trigger is. Is neutral, actually. What? Your debt.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

You said, your dad. A tisk is a very good.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

That can be very triggering.

[Sabrina Zohar]

My partner said, no. Literally, my partner went. I said, babe, do you want to do something? And he just went, no. And, like, walked off. To anybody else, I'd be like, okay, you don't want to do something. I lost it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I started hyperventilating. I started sweating, and it wasn't until I stopped, and I was like, whoa, whoa. Okay. How old do I feel? And I had to ask myself. I'm like, how old do you feel right now? And I was like, I feel like I'm seven. I'm like, who am I talking to, dad? And I was like, okay, so this isn't him. I went back into my lizard brain. My prefrontal cortex is off. And so when I named it, and I was like, I feel really sad right now. Okay. What am I sad about? I felt dismissed. Okay, well, was there fat? You start to understand.

[Pete Holmes]

And that dismissal is if you're like me. And I bet you are. I'm going to wager that dismissal is really unsafe to you. It's like, I'm in intense danger. To me, it's. And I want your response to this. I don't want to just talk about this. It's like, not being considered is really, really dangerous to me. So if somebody's, like, playing really Loud music or something. I actually, you know, it's actually gotten better through ifs. But like, I will be like, this person is inconsiderate. And if they're inconsiderate, if they don't care that I'm trying to read or take a nap or whatever, then they probably don't care if I'm alive.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, we go there and that's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Coming over and they're probably going to kill me like a Mad Max Mohawk guy. That's like, like, that's who is playing this music really loudly. I can't. And I, I sort of do. And don't envy people that just go like, wow, someone's having a party. And they just keep making guacamole. I'm like, no, we need to freeze in the corner and assess with every ounce of effort. Who is this? When will it be done? And what does it say about me?

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I was gonna say I would all but guarantee that, like, okay, so lack of consideration walked in and you're like, you're here. And it's like, I get that. I understand that your little is looking at this and it's like, what's his narrative? What's his story?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. And I love control. I love. Sabrina's coming. We're gonna sit down, we're gonna talk. And I'm pretty proud of myself that I'm rolling with Ryan. You're all that one of your boy names.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What? What? In which way?

[Pete Holmes]

That you like?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm not gonna say the boy name that I like, but Ryan was not on the list. No, I'll say Brandon. That was like my name. That was my name. I dated like eight Brandon's in a row.

[Pete Holmes]

How. I want to ask how old you are. Did you watch 921?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was Brandon Lee from the Crow.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, good one.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. I mean, that was what started it. Then it went to Brandon Boyd from Incubus and I was like, hubba hubba. Then it went to Brandon Flower.

[Pete Holmes]

Brandon Boyd.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

From Incubus.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was so obsessed with Brandon Boyd. It was pathetic. I had a life. I'm not kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

How many times did you text him?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, how many times I go see him. It did more of the concerning part. I went to see Incubators Incubus like seven times. I had like everything was Incubus in my room. Every life size posters of him in my room.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You incubated.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was. You were telling me I was.

[Pete Holmes]

See, that's not a dad joke. The Professional comedian.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, that was good. That was on it, right? Dad joke would have been something.

[Pete Holmes]

Dad joke would have been like, thank you, I'm gonna take the incubus to the concert. Like, that's a dad joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that we're figuring this out.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Me, too.

[Pete Holmes]

Why? I can't picture him, so I can't really.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Braden Boyd?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He was just a bit. He had the cut lines. He and around Tyler Durden time that was. Was so yummy. I swear I was. I was so boy crazy because I was just so. Talk about, like, severely.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, were you looking for a new healthy. Well, maybe not right away, but, like, definitely not. I am looking for the energies that I didn't get when I was a kid.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was looking for someone to come save me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was easier to fantasize. That's why even now, like, loop it back to even some of the work that I do. When people ask why questions, questions like, why don't they like me? Why aren't they into me? Why? And one of my best friends, she's a neuropsychotherapist and she's brilliant. And she taught me. When you want to understand why, why, why what you're actually doing is your brain is trying to intellectualize because it's avoiding feeling the pain, it's avoiding feeling the sadness, it's avoiding feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

Just mourn it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So if we. So for me, it was easier to project and fantasize about these men that were going to come save me. And you're going to treat me really well, and you're going to do all these things. And it was for me at 13 to go and say. Say, my parents are terrible. I have a really shitty childhood. My life isn't safe. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know when someone's going to come get me. And I'm scared I'm not going to be okay. I didn't have the cognitive ability.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow, this is making me think. Remember in Boogie Nights, he's kind of in a nut. Well, he is in an unhappy house and his room is filled with posters. And isn't that just, like, correct?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's escapism.

[Pete Holmes]

It's escapism. And I definitely had that. I. I've actually. I'd have that with, like, Green Day. Like, I'd think about, like, where are they right now? But like, a weird kind of. When I say idolatry, that I don't mean that it was wrong. I just mean, like, I really wanted to, like, Know them.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And, like, be on their tour bus. If I could get out of here, that would be great. Yeah. And they were kind of like, helping you through that time. It's interesting to consider how much of, like, Incubus. Audience. Audience, for example, is just absolute nut jobs like you. 100 that are looking up the wrong tree.

[Sabrina Zohar]

100.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're looking for a dad. And they found Incubus.

[Sabrina Zohar]

They found Brandon Boyd. And you're like, oh. Because you find romantic. I drive. You're like, I miss you. I was like, you miss me? Like, you saying it to me, it's like, you.

[Pete Holmes]

I had that too. You're helping me realize. And then when my wife left me, obviously, my first wife, I was 28, and I got obsessed with Radiohead. And I'm not saying I wasn't, like, imbalanced, you know, like, this is vulnerable. I just mean. I don't mean. Don't laugh. I just mean, like, I want you to know that I know that this is weird, but, like, I felt like Tom York was helping me. Like, he became an avatar for, like, I'm a sad guy and it all worked out for me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I hate to say. And here as I'm saying, I'm like, that's me. To the anxious people. They're like. They see me as, like, I'm the avatar. Or like, you used to be me, but now you're not anymore. And it's like, yeah. Because there are a lot of people that will help us through our days. I. There are so many people where, like, I'll listen to songs and I'm like, I'm just grateful. Thank you for being here for me right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I don't think it's bad because.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Well, you didn't go and look towards. For his house. You didn't send him 173 texts.

[Pete Holmes]

That's true. I. I cut it off at 111 because if I don't. I was going to do an OCD joke. It doesn't matter. What I was going to say is, like, when I listen to. I listen to Revision. Revisionist History, and I catch myself having a parasocial relationship with Malcolm Gladwell. I think that's actually what this is, is when you. When you have a podcast and as you have a podcast, it's called do the Work. And I have this podcast, which has never been sued.

[Sabrina Zohar]

For anyone listening. They're like, it's called do the Work. I'm like, no, it's not.

[Pete Holmes]

I swear. It's. It's not. It's called the Sabrina Zohar Show.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Not podcast. But I was just saying, like, there's something nice about taking a break. Take in someone else's brain.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's why, if you like their brain, Like, I like how this is a tangent, but, like, I like how curious Malcolm Gladwell is and how excited he is about everything.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like Frosted Flakes. Go through seven kinds of cooking and I'm just like, wow, imagine having that much interest in anything.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

That's really what I'm listening to. It's not even the. The content. I'm just like, jesus, I wish I felt that way about anything.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Truly, though, if I could feel a morsel of excitement that you do.

[Pete Holmes]

But goes off on me. I catch myself going, like, it ignites something in me. And I think that's. Who cares? People are listening to a podcast about why they might be listening to a podcast. Here's what I'd like to know. Yeah, you were, you know, harassing Brandon from Incubus, I'm assuming, and being, you know, just a little bit broken and understandably because your dad had a. A derringer strapped to his ankle. Undoubtedly probably had a thick carpet he was always losing Quaaludes in. But what from there to here, you know, here you are. I'm sure you get this all the time, but, I mean, like, now you clearly have all this stuff. What were the steps that you took to clean up your relationship game? And what did you realize? 173 Text lady to this lady that from that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That no one was going to come save me. That, like, I really. That the more I run, the longer I'm gonna chase. It was just like this perpetual. I was getting exhausted. I was. I was having panic attacks. Like, nothing was quelling this because I was an endless, constant need and, like, pit of I need, I need, I need. But nothing was being satisfied for myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And where it really started was, like, I started doing ketamine treatments. And after a shitty breakup. I love them so much. It changed my life. It was the first time I saw my little.

[Pete Holmes]

Are we the same person? Should we date? Ryan?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Like, sorry, this was fun, but we. I, like, I started doing ketamine and I started realizing, like, that I wasn't showing up for myself. So I was expecting all these other people, too. I'm expecting these men to choose me. I'm expecting these people. Like, I had this childlike, really understanding that love was. You're gonna change for me. Like, I'm gonna age myself. Now cry baby. You remember Crybaby Johnny Depp. God, that was like talk.

[Pete Holmes]

I stand by everything Johnny's ever done that movie. I see it actually.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh my God.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I would have been a pretty cool guy if I saw that cover and was like, I'm gonna get this.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because that made my wet.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Didn'T it? I'm feeling like so seen.

[Pete Holmes]

It was really a sexy face he's making on the COVID He was just so.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He was the bad boy. He was the bad boy. He was the, the. The bad boy back in the day that like, what was a bad boy? He rode a motorcycle cycle. But like he was a greaser and.

[Pete Holmes]

One shoes untied, one boots.

[Sabrina Zohar]

One boots, yeah. And you know, he was the. He went to jail and it's like, what did you see? What was the narrative taught was like, because he met the right girl, he was going to change who he was to keep her in his life. So I believed, okay, you're emotionally unavailable and super avoidant and possibly like my father and a narcissist. Great. Challenge accepted. How can I get you to choose me? Because that's called repetition compulsion.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God, I did that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Did you?

[Pete Holmes]

Not with Val, no. And not really with my first wife. But I did eventually start dating people that I'm like, oh, this is like my mom. And it felt greater than the sum of its parts to be in their gaze.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, like if you could get that. And my mom, by the way, I actually kind of had the over loving mom. So I'm not saying I was neglected by my mom, but it was like really fun to try and lure a familiar beast into the cage.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We are powerful patterns. Like our brain. Our brains love familiarity. They love patterns. Our brain does not want to do any more work. It's trying to keep you safe. So when we turn our prefrontal cortex, we get disregulated, we get triggered and you go back into the amygdala that stopped growing at 6. What's going to happen? You're going to.

[Pete Holmes]

Your dad comes in. My amygdala stopped growing at 12. My amygdala is still growing actually.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, probably.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Sorry.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And that type of mentality, like when we think about if I. When I say how old do I feel like I feel like I'm a kid right now. I feel like a child right now. It's like. Or do I feel that in my body that.

[Pete Holmes]

That woman that I dated, but who, by the way, I wish nothing but the best for this person. But like There were times when. And I didn't have the language for this. But she'd be mad. She. She would get mad at me a lot and I would shrink. That was the language I used. And I'm a. I'm 6 foot 6 and I, you know. I'm not as broad shouldered as Ryan. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. Just so I can be a big man.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Get out of here.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. You won. Okay. I'm just saying I'm. I'm a tall guy at least. And I would not strapping. But I would think that she was going to hit me with one arm and fling me across the road. And it was a real.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You feel it?

[Pete Holmes]

I felt that that was possible. And if you had seen my body you would have seen a person that was prepping for a catapulting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When in reality. If this person tried to pick me up. She wouldn't have been able to do it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No. But your brain.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that a fat joke?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Was I. I didn't take it.

[Pete Holmes]

When you really agreed with me that I said she couldn't pick me up and you were like.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No. It was the six. Six.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a fat joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay. I'm just kidding. What a trap.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the host. And I made you feel so unsure.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's fine. No, it's good.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you did great. I just wanted. I love. Is that a fat joke? I'm so sorry.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Is it okay?

[Pete Holmes]

But yeah. The little. The little.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Your little is looking at me being like you. But yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That. No. Don't get me started on my strategies now. No.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No. Huh. Because you learn them. But that's right. We have maladaptive, maladaptive coping mechanisms. So growing up, if you're. What kept you safe was. I'm gonna play small. Right. So like if that's what for me personally in our home. Because I had me. I had my sister who's older than my brother's, the oldest. And all of us have adhd, but it comes out differently. So I had to compete against wackadoos in my house. And then my father and then my mom who just wasn't there. And like mentally.

[Pete Holmes]

Sounds great.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It was such God. Talk about a rager. And you wonder why this is it.

[Pete Holmes]

But when you're doing great. The fact that you aren't on fire right now.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Trust me, the amount of times that I'm like, you're doing great, sweetie. Just remember that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I do get comfort. We should all be doing worse. We all. Even someone who's doing real bad. I'm like, yeah, there's other places.

[Sabrina Zohar]

There's other places. Yeah, exactly. You're a lot. Literally.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But when we think about. About just the way that our maladaptive coping mechanism. So for me, I learned at a very young age, setting boundaries meant you're gonna get hit. My dad's gonna leave. Like, he would just leave for weeks on end. Like, you did not know when he was going to come back, who he was going to be with. Like, that was a very inconsistent. Now again, not everyone has that childhood. Some people might be looking at me like, I didn't have that. That's cool. What did you learn? Who taught you that? And that's what I have to remember is like, okay, so if I play small, where did I learn that from? Well, growing up, that if my father came and did something, then I had to scream to get someone's attention. That's why I act out. That's why my knee jerk reaction is to start yelling. But if I take the pause and say, well, what are my choices? Okay, well, I don't need to be. I don't. You're not my father. I don't need to be heard by you in that way, but I can respond and not react. But when we are conditioned, when we get triggered and we don't understand that, when we can't turn that part of your brain on that didn't, by the way, stop growing until you're 28. So it's not fair. Our amygdala stops growing at 6, but the rest of us doesn't grow until we're 28. And we wonder why we're such morons and are like adult life life. If we don't actually start to understand all of these connections and synapses that start to come together, then you're not actually going to make a change. Because that was what we were talking about earlier is like, how did I become who I am? Not just by self awareness. Self awareness without action. What's that?

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I had to implement, not intellectualize. And the more I learned about things, the worse I got. It wasn't until I started to say, I need to understand me and not just the concepts.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I'm hearing you. My therapist recently said, like, it often gets worse before it gets better because you're like learning these things things. And then my relationship sometimes with my parents gets more stilted and I'm like, what is this? Nothing's like, is that kind of what you meant? What did you mean? You Said a lot.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do that often. I am sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Put this on half speed. I'm just kidding. I actually, no, I like fast talking. I really do.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's how for me, I'm like, otherwise I lose interest.

[Pete Holmes]

But no, I'm with it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Moral of the story being is like, it's. Yes, it will get worse until it gets better. And the reason being is because for however many years that you are right now, for me, it was 28 years that I hadn't been doing this work. That's 28 years of conditioning, of core beliefs, of patterns, of things that are ingrained. So it's going to take time. But you know what doesn't help? Just listening to every podcast, reading every book. It's like, yeah, I want you to understand it. But what are you implementing?

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And what are you experiencing? Right? I mean, like bringing it into the body, into like felt experience.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The somatic.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, somatic and that. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for psychedelics which don't really care if you understand it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The reason I loved the psychedelics is because they took everything away and allowed me to be a spectator now museum. I was able to go back and see everything I needed to see without being in that situation, without feeling what my 6 year old is going through. Because that is why we avoid the work. We don't avoid doing this work for anything. Besides, we don't want to feel those feelings again. Who does? It sucked back then. I don't want to deal with that now. But now the one thing I did my ifs parts work that changed everything was when I was going to see my little. And I kept going back. And then finally once I asked her, do you know who I am? And she was like, I think so. And I was saying, I'm you. And she was like, no, you're or not. And I had to show her my license. And I was like, I am you done little. No, I love you. I didn't say that to her. I was like.

[Pete Holmes]

But she goes, it's not a real idea.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm sorry. And I was trying.

[Pete Holmes]

Back of the line.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly. Fake. That's your sister, by the way. It says Jamie. Thank you. Which I used for years, but really being able. Because what happens is like, our littles think they need to protect us. Our littles are trying to keep us safe. That's that maladaptive coping mechanism. But instead of playing small when you can say, right, you know what, I don't need to play small, I can actually take up space. Because I'm going to keep you safe. That's when they're like, oh, okay, you go ahead and do it because you are the adult, not them anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And that. That is a very felt thing. It's very emotional. I'm not a great crier, but I think I cry almost every time I do ifs. And it's beautiful. Not that that's a marker that it's like special or working, but like, it's a marker for me that I'm feeling these feelings. And it's really powerful to just get your little. To see you as a grown up. It's like really do a slideshow.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I've literally done that with my clients. I'm like, okay, my screen projector on it. Because my. All of clients, they're like, my little doesn't believe I could do it. And I'm like, okay, show them your house. Show them your career. Show them your wife or your boyfriend or your friends. Show them all of these things. Because oftentimes our littles are like, I did that. And it's like, no, we did. Yeah, I did that. In. Not in spite of you, but with you.

[Pete Holmes]

Say it's in spite of you. That's how you feel. My.

[Sabrina Zohar]

My poor little sab. She's sitting there.

[Pete Holmes]

You did. You were playing with Play D'oh. Eating some of it. You did nothing.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was that girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, Barbie.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. I almost wore my Backstreet Boy shirt today to commemorate, but bb, bsb.

[Pete Holmes]

Bsb.

[Sabrina Zohar]

They're coming, you know, into Vegas.

[Pete Holmes]

I really couldn't care less.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, perfect. I feel so.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't mean that to. I just want you to know my truth.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That if you gave me a free front row ticket, I would burn it in front of you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

There's a lot of burning happening. This is LA after all. So, Pete, I'm a little concerned.

[Pete Holmes]

A lot of fire.

[Sabrina Zohar]

A lot of fire talk.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, no, I. I don't know why that is. Well done. I don't like that. I don't like that. You're like, oh, yeah, I know jiu jitsu as well. I don't like that. Stay away from me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. So what else? Tell me about the boundaries you have have with your father. Well, I also want to hear about the ketamine experience. The first time you did it, you're. Were you visualizing these things, seeing it?

[Sabrina Zohar]

The first time I did it, Ketamine.

[Pete Holmes]

Is very void to me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It is. So the one thing that changed it for me when I went to do ketamine, it was 2019. So it was after a really terrible breakup. And I kept saying, I don't know why I feel stuck. I was like, where am I stuck? And the woman that I did it with was like, hey, make sure you have an intention. And so that was my intention. Where am I stuck? Where am I stuck? I want to see where I'm stuck. And then it just, I was like, I'm gonna like let it take me. And I know what you mean. I've had some treatments where I'm in this void and I'm like just kind of floating and seeing black. But when I get very clear of like, I'm here for a reason, even if it's 10 minutes. And it brought me back to my childhood room. And that was the first time I met her. It was the first time I did inner child. Was first time I even heard of an inner child. And I remember just walking up and being like. That's when she looked at me and was like, you abandoned me. And it hit me at that moment of like, oh my God. I by self abandoning for anybody. That's like, I don't know what that means. You abandon yourself when you don't validate your emotions when you say it. And I'm being stupid or you're being crazy. Crazy. You abandon yourself when you say yes instead of no. You abandon yourself when you do things that don't align with who you are. That's self abandonment.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean yes to something. You should say no.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Did I say the opposite?

[Pete Holmes]

You said yes instead of no. But I'm like, really depends on the question.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Correct.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but something you know is a no. But you say yes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Like, can you help me do this? And instead of being like, no, I'm so sorry, I can't today. You do it and then you get you over exert and then you're upset and then you're resentful, then you're angry and then your day is off. When at the beginning, if you just said no. Know there's a therapist I love and he always says, is it hurtful or harmful? Am I hurting your feelings? I can afford to do that. Or am I harming you? So we have to be. That's what I mean. So when I started to understand all of these things, that's when I started realizing my father, to this day, my dad and I, he has disowned me six or seven times. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. He'll be outside.

[Pete Holmes]

For the record, I says it, I disown you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He says it. He's like, you. You're not my daughter anymore. Get. I don't even. You're not mine. And he'll hang up and he's like, don't ever call me again. And you're like, okay. And he wants you to come running back. And then when you don't, it's. Then he'll change the story of what.

[Pete Holmes]

Happened that you didn't.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That I'm the one who started screaming and yelling. And you're like, I didn't say anything. And then even people be like, does that make sense to you?

[Pete Holmes]

I've seen some of these types go through divorce and they'll like, very. It's very much like, I don't just mean Trump's White House. I mean, like, it's like an administration. Like, they have a press meeting and they're like, this is the story, actually. And of course, like, that's why PR is so familiar. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like PR people when they. Oh, no, certainly not what a publicist does. I mean like a real crisis person that goes, this is what they're saying. This is how we can shift it. Yeah, what's that?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's almost gaslighting.

[Pete Holmes]

It is gaslighting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And I, you know, when all those things were happening, I mean, at the beginning of Me too, and stuff, it was. It was so helpful to get things out. And like, I think. Because what makes it so hurtful is when we know something's happened and nobody's talking like. Like a horrible Thanksgiving.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, right.

[Pete Holmes]

There's the trauma and then there's the gaslighting. There's the, the denying.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes. The deflection. There's all the different variables.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But nonetheless, like, that to me is what really like, for. It changed everything was like I really started to change things when I started saying actually that really hurt me. My feelings and not. That's it. Not doing anything about it, but allowing. How many times has someone says something hurtful to you? And then we completely say, like, you're just being dramatic. Like, you're just being really sensitive. We talk ourselves out of saying, I didn't like that.

[Pete Holmes]

And your feelings are valid.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Feelings are valid. They're not facts. Off. They're not facts.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they're not facts, but they are your experience. So you write you. It sounds like you have to find that middle way of acknowledging them. You can do it too much. I suppose.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The feelings aren't facts. They are valid. But what also we need to look at is the story. What I love to say the story I've created is. And so like, same thing, what we were talking about. If he wanted to, he would and all that. If, let's say, okay, guy I'm texting. I'm. Guy, I'm dating didn't text me for a day. Instead of just going to. Which was Ryan. Instead of just going to him and like attacking him. He hates texting. Oh, he hates.

[Pete Holmes]

I also hate texting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Do you.

[Pete Holmes]

A dear friend sent me a voice memo and I said out loud, don't send me voice memos.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's literally the rule in our house. The first time I ever.

[Pete Holmes]

Who the do you think I am that I have three minutes to listen to your day.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Your Bibble babble.

[Pete Holmes]

Mad about it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He literally. The first time I sent him a voice note, I get a text. By the way, I'm not listening to this, nor will I ever. Don't you ever send. And I was like, oh, okay, you.

[Pete Holmes]

Hate dating right now.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You are. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

The fact that they transcribe them now, it's great. And you read it and it's just nonsense sense. You're like, oh, this person just wants to know their birthday's tomorrow.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Well, I just saved four minutes on that.

[Pete Holmes]

I hope you die. That's what I hope. I don't like it. I feel like I like them not to bring gender into it, but women like.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And men would rather die in a fire, obviously. Stay honest with myself here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I appreciate that. There's a lot of burning.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, though. You were saying?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Great question. I don't remember.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't remember it either.

[Sabrina Zohar]

This is what happened to that's my brain. I get on a different track.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I think we'll get back to it because what I'm going to say here is. Here. We'll cut. We'll be back after these messages. Part of being a dad is losing stuff. And I recently misplaced my Apollo, my Apollo Neuro, which I'm wearing right here on my wrist. I lost it because Leela found it and she hid it somewhere. I finally found it in a toy box. But what's important about that is I notice every once, like once a month for a couple days, I get to see what life is like without my Apollo Neuro. Neuro. And I'm telling you, the difference is huge and noticeable because an Apollo Neuro sends these almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your nervous system in the language it can understand. We're talking about somatic communication. These gentle Vibrations can help you calm down, they can help you relax, they can help you focus. It's like a wearable hug that sends this signal to your body that you are safe and in control. It's like being held but by something on your wrist. Or you can wear it on your ankle. It's like finding the fuse box for your emotions, for your feelings. We can wake up with it energy and wake up social and open. Which is usually what I have it set on when I'm doing this podcast. Clear and focused. Rebuild and recover after a workout. Calm, which is like the Zen setting. Unwind, which is what I put it on when I'm watching TV at night to settle into into the nighttime and fall asleep. Which is a chemical free way to lull you into gentle sleep asleep and keep you asleep. Because it reruns in the night without you even needing to wake up to set it up again. Apollo Neuro is not Woo Woo is developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get one. Support your body, support your nervous system and support the Show. Show. Get 40 bucks off at ApolloNeuro.com weird use promo code weird. That's a P O L-L-O-N-E-U-R-O.com weird and use promo code weird. We're also brought to us I'm wearing the hat by our friends at Element here in the summer months you can't mess around with your hydration. And healthy hydration isn't just water. It's water and electrolytes. Back in the 90s that meant drinking basically flat soda that was filled with sugar and calories. Element is different. It's five calories. It's just what you need and nothing that you don't. It is sugar free. It is BS free and is the perfect ratio of sodium, magnesium and potassium to flood every cell with hydration, which makes me feel fantastic in the morning. I drink it before I have any coffee and I feel an incredible boost. Also after any sort of workout or any sort of time time in the sun, outdoors. I drink one before I go on stage. I find it's really helpful for mental clarity. Keeps away cramps, keeps away fatigue. Hydration is the key. Element has become a huge part of my wellness program. They provide that perfect ratio of sodium, potassium, magnesium for health performance and Energy and it also tastes fantastic and is wonderful on days if you fast. So use our promo code weird [e-mail] weird and you will get a free sample pack of elements most popular drink mix flavors that citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, which is my favorite and orange salt. You'll get two sticks of each flavor with any purchase using promo code weird go to drinklmnt.com weird get that free sample pack. Support your hydration. Support the show. All right, back to the episode. And now we're back. Here's what I'm gonna ask. I never do that. I just noticed it was exactly an hour and that's just about right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

She's like.

[Pete Holmes]

What are the mistakes? So am I right in you help people? What do you call yourself? What are you?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm concerned that you help people. Yes, I help people. Dating and relationship dating.

[Pete Holmes]

Relationship coach. Is that okay?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What is the mistake? Sorry. But we want it. We want people to get a taste totally of what you do. And I'm curious, what is the mistake you see most often? Like, what is the thing that everyone just seems to be up?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I think that people, like if I had to put it in a nutshell of really encompassing all of the behavior that I would say is that people don't understand how to regulate their own goddamn emotions. And I see that because. And the reason I say that is because it manifests in different ways. So I see the number one thing I get people I work with over like 100 people a month and one on ones and coaching. Like I really try to help people to figure out like what's happening up here.

[Pete Holmes]

Love it. And I also laugh because I feel like I'm interviewing the song. Rap God. It's a very fast talking rap song.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, sweet.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was gonna say I need to listen.

[Pete Holmes]

You'll love.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'll love it.

[Pete Holmes]

Be like this guy's talking at a normal pace.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. This is whenever I meet friends from New York, I'm like, I get that. I get this.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We have somewhere to go.

[Pete Holmes]

So how regulating their own emotions. And it manifests in different ways.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes, Regulating the reaction to emotions because it's like you're allowed to have your experience. I don't give a go to the bathroom. But what I see is it's that like the number one thing I get in the question box is at the end it'll say, what do I do? And it's this, this giving up of control of like I have no control. I Can't do anything. I don't know what to do. And again, that reminds me of childhood. And so that's where this emotional regulation to the responses come in. Because I'll get off. Like, I had this amazing date, but he didn't call me. And it's like, okay, the hyper vigilance is in. You're just regular, regulated. You're looking for a problem. Your core beliefs are coming in. Instead of just being able to regulate and sit in it and say, I don't know this person. I'm not. What are my choices? And that's the biggest thing. Whether you're avoidant, you're anxious, I don't really give a. We need to stop identifying people like Tamagotchis and start seeing them as people with complex human emotions and things. And the more time I spend trying to get to know them, the more time I'm away from myself. And I see that also.

[Pete Holmes]

Turn it around, turn it around.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Bring it in. That's why the why questions. Instead of asking, why don't they like me? I want you to reframe to. I don't like. Okay, why didn't they call me? I don't like that they didn't call me. What don't I like?

[Pete Holmes]

It's like nonviolent communication kind of.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you know that?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like I'm feeling sad because my need for security or reliability or connection isn't being met. But it's. I'm not saying you should be implementing that in what you do because it's brilliant, but it's taking ownership. I have a problem. And that's what I'm hearing here. I don't like like that he didn't text me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I have a need for certainty.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And then I was gonna say, we go further because you're like, okay, why didn't he text me? I don't like that he didn't text me. Why don't you like it? Well, I have a need. Okay, what are the needs? Well, I need to feel like a priority. So that's the issue. You don't feel like a priority.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay. What facts do I have to back that up? Well, he didn't text me. That's not a fact. That's the inaction. What facts do I have to back up? They didn't text me means they don't care about me. Yeah, well, I don't have one. Right. Then we start to say, say, oh, that's true. What are the contrary beliefs? Oh, they don't really like text then when we can do that, that's like the work.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you know the work, Byron? Katie's the work.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like you, you flip it around. Have I done things like that to people that I care about? How is it not true? How have they demonstrated that they do care about me? But have you heard Velcro, Teflon? Like something negative sticks like Velcro and something positive slides off like Teflon.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to hold it consciously for like 10 seconds. Seconds. So an exercise of like what are five ways that they have cared about me? And they got me that. Those wonderful baking pans.

[Sabrina Zohar]

They really think about me when they text me. They're very thoughtful.

[Pete Holmes]

But yes. All of this for you don't need my validation. But you have it. I think this is fabulous.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's essentially just trying to see what are my choices? What do I have control over?

[Pete Holmes]

What am I doing and what am I doing and what am I focusing on?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Wouldn't the thing when Ryan said no to me, I could have easily been like, what the do you mean? And just knee jerk reaction, gotten bananas on him and done that. And instead what I had to do is I came to him and I said, hey, can I share something with you? Asking for consent to make sure that the person I'm seeing also is ready to have a conversation with me. Because I don't just expect everyone to be ready.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And when he said, yeah, and I said, can I share something?

[Pete Holmes]

I love that. By the way, we could stop on that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We want.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you available for.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, you're available for a conversation. Can I share something with you? Are you in a space that you can receive this? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because we've all done that where you call your friend and you're like, I'm so sorry. I think I just trauma dumped.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. I said to Val yesterday, I go, I can't go into my scheduling mind. I have to stay on my creative mind right now.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And she loved it. And then today when we double booked this entire day, she said, this is what I was wanting to talk to.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You're like, so in hindsight I realized that this would have been important.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But tell that to that sweet ass outliner yesterday.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Pete was not listening. And that control there it is. But even just like the. So I'll say, can I, can I share something with you? Ask for consent and I will start with I statements. I, you did not do anything wrong. I'll be like, I Just want to preface. Nothing happened here.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm feeling.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm feeling. I felt really dismissed. You said no. It reminded me of my dad. I got triggered. I shut down. I'm not asking you to change who you are, but what I am saying is moving forward. Could you just maybe follow it up with something?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I remember he looked at me and he was like, that makes so much sense. I am so sorry if that happened. He was like. What I meant to say was no. And then he continued, and I was like, thank you. You. Because what did that just do?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, no. And get the out of my face, dude. Moonwalk away.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That would have been awkward as. Because we had just moved in together. I'd been like, yikes. Hindsight. Probably should have vetted him a little bit more.

[Pete Holmes]

My hindsight is 10 20. I can't see both ways. Yes, Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But that would have. What that would have showed me is, oh, then that's not a person that I can safely open up to.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not somebody that I could be vulnerable and open with because they didn't create a safe space. They judged me. No, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not a. It's not. Not a sad. No. It's a celebratory yes to someone else.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly. Rejections, redirection.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. Fail faster.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Fail. Yes, exactly. And really what that. That taught me was, oh, okay, then what did I do? I didn't ask for my partner to satisfy my needs. I satisfied them myself. I stood up for myself. I had a voice. And I could never do that because I went to my dad and said that, yeah, it would have been led with disconnection. And instead, what I was doing was deepening our connection. And then what does that tell my nervous system? System, you are safe. This is okay.

[Pete Holmes]

And I can hear you saying to your little, like, look, I felt this way, and I took care of it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's mostly what I tell my little person. I don't say little because it makes me think my wiener.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Fair. You have that. I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

When I talk to my massive. I. I often. No, I just have to show him examples of, like, you know, like, my parents will say, like, we like to spend Christmas as a family because it's my daughter, 6, and we don't want to be traveling all this stuff. And they're also the more brutally honest ways I could answer that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But I was like, trauma is fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. And. And so they go, come. And I go, no. And I show that to them. I go, look. And it was okay. It Was everything was okay. And like a slideshow, you do, like, your thing. You show them over and over again. Look, Val, that's my partner is available, is emotionally available, and is intelligent and is. Is patient, and. And nobody is yelling here, and nobody is any. All that sort of stuff. Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And like, all the beliefs you have about yourself, like, there you are, good enough. There is nothing wrong with you. And I'm sorry if I never showed that to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because that's also radical accountability for me. I'm all about, like, not only just acceptance, but radical accountability. It's the same as, like, I'm a business owner, and I've always been taught, like, stop blaming everyone else when it doesn't work. You're the business owner. It starts and stops with you. Obviously, there are things outside of your control, but on the aggregate, it's on you. And so with me, with life, if I'm looking at my life right Now, I am 100 responsible for what's happening. I can't control other people, but I am responsible for my choices, my decisions, my reactions, my responses. And so if I can take control of that, then I will have much better and healthier relationships and a part of my life that I actually want to fucking live. Because I'm actually saying, well, I chose this.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that. It reminds me of. I. I'm 46. I just figured out I really like swimming, and people are like, fine. I know.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Better late than never.

[Pete Holmes]

I know people are like, find your exercise. And it turns out it was swimming. And it took me 46 years to figure that out. But it's like when you find the thing that you can control and you can do. Instead of going, like, I should hike. Well, I. I think hiking a snooze. And I. I don't like it or whatever it is.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Well, if you wanted to, you would.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll be right back.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You're like, and I'll be alone one night. We get back, I.

[Pete Holmes]

We cut back, and you're just gone.

[Sabrina Zohar]

She's gone. And a fire.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. So I'm gonna throw something at you that I find very interesting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, there's a couple things.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm gonna start with this one. Do you know the School of Life? Alain Debton dubutton, Who knows? Do Button, Alan croissanwich, Alain Croissant sandwich. And the School of Life is a. Is a YouTube channel that I enjoy. And he said something that I really. I. Some of it, by the way, I don't fully endorse. And I would say this to Elaine, who I'm a big fan of his. He. It tends to skew a little, like, lower your expectations. People suck. Just go inside. Like, it can kind of lean that way.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I don't know why I left the house.

[Pete Holmes]

There's not a lot of, like. And this is kind of what's nice about it, but there's not a lot of Tony Robbins, like, clap your hands and get out there. Like, he's not like that. He's like, yeah, it's probably a reminder that we all die one day. And then the video's over and you're like, jesus Christ.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Do I just sit with this? Like, what do I do with this?

[Pete Holmes]

It's not a pick me up channel. It's a Radiohead kind of psychology. But it's also very helpful. I mean it. But he said that when you go on a date date and you don't feel the spark. He says, and I agree with this, so I'll defend it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's a good thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, interesting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Good thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I like that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

He wasn't evaluating whether it was good or bad. He was saying, what you're actually noticing is that this person wasn't hurt in the way that I was hurt. Like, our traumas don't match because when Val and I went on a date, our first date, we had. We shared religious lowercase trauma. We had a lot of the similar family kind of stuff, dynamics. So we're like, hitting the ball back and forth. And we have. Not only do we have this, like, shared experience, but, like, our. Those wounds have similar protectors. And now our protectors are. And one of them is joking, and we're joking and we're like, vibing. And then other people I hang out with, and I'm like, I would go on a date, let's say. And I'm like, where is this person? And it's because we're putting up these feelers of, like, this is what my wound sort of looks like. And this is how I cope with it. And if they're going like, well, mine is completely different and my coping is completely different. That's the lack of spark.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The spark, to me, one of my friends always calls it the trauma tingles when you get the sparkles. It's literally, actually scientifically, what's happening in your body is you're getting a rush of blood to your phalanges so that you could run because something about your body is saying, this doesn't feel safe. But what happens is when they're really good looking, you're like, ooh, ooh. This is the spark. I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

Crybaby.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh God. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story. Very quick story. The last night of the spark outside of my piece of X, which is the for different day. But the last time I had the spark, there was this guy and like he was a male Adonis. Like, he showed up and you're like, okay, done. And you know, it's the type of date where like you're there for six hours and people, the waiters are being like, how long you been together?

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, I think aggressively good looking. People think all conversations are six hours because everyone they talk to is just like, you like ice cream and they're.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Like, you like air. I breathe too.

[Pete Holmes]

And I go to the movies sometimes, like, oh, tell me more so I can watch you talk.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Everything like it was just that banter and the back and forth and like, he didn't live there. I lived in New York, he lived in la. And it was one of those like, I come all the time and you're like, no, you don't. And I kind of knew he didn't. Yeah, but we were supposed to go on a second date. Like we didn't. We like made out. We didn't do anything. We were supposed to go on a second date. Heyo. Not to say that's not what I did with my partner, but it worked out. What do you mean we on the first date.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice. This guy.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Val and I also had sex on our first day.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Hey, trauma. Anyways, so the long story medium is so he, he calls me a couple of days later, we're supposed to go on this date and he's like, I'm so sorry, I have to get back to California. My company got broken into. It's this whole thing to the who knows if it's real or not. And I was like, ah, balls. Damn. Okay, whatever. Yeah. So years go by. This is like an eight year thing of like every time you like reconnect. I don't know if you've ever have that. You like reconnect, you chat.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hard to get the rifts in. I was going to say someone stole all his standup paddle boards. That was my riff because his business was broken into. I'm assuming he's a babe and he's out there sparkling. It doesn't work after the moment.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No. I appreciate it though. He was in tech. Does that make it any better?

[Pete Holmes]

He was in tech?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I worked. Worked for Facebook. I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Or some perfect Facebook.

[Sabrina Zohar]

All right. I know at the time. Not meta. So anyways, so he's working. He leaves. And so it's one of those, like. Like, we connected for a little bit. We'd FaceTime and stuff, and it would very quickly fizzled and we. But I. He was the one for me, right? He's the one that got away good looking. That I really was, like, hell bent on this guy. And the spark. Couldn't get over the spark. Years later, years, years later, once I started to realize, like. And this is to the point where, like, he was listening to Andrew Tate stuff, and I was like, okay, like, that's how you remember. Oh, you never heard of the Tater Tots? Andrew Tate.

[Pete Holmes]

Do we all know who Andrew Tate is?

[Sabrina Zohar]

The red.

[Pete Holmes]

Shaking her head.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The red pill. Might as well well be. No, he's the, like, the manosphere of, like.

[Pete Holmes]

The what?

[Sabrina Zohar]

He doesn't date women over 25. Because women over 25 have.

[Pete Holmes]

Leo. This is Leo DiCaprio.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Could be. Maybe it's a different.

[Pete Holmes]

Goes by Andrew Tate privacy. At most Best Westerns, Andrew Tate was.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What is he, ufc? He was like something. He's a celebrity anyways. He's something. It's a lot of the, like, women should be seen, not heard. Misogyny. Very kind of like that world. And it's. It's not my world, but I was just like, whatever, this guy's hot. And so anyways, years later, I'm going, I'm in an appointment. Appointment. And I'm telling this girl all about this guy. This is up until like a year, two years ago at this point. And I'm telling her all about this guy that had this crazy spark with. And. And it never worked out. And then all of a sudden, I like, say his name and I just see her stop.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, you know, Excelsior.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What? Yeah. What? Fabio? You know him? And she, like, just breaks down and she's like, that's my ex. He left you for me. He, like, when he left the trip, he came. Came back to me and just listing me how terrible this person is and how he ruined her. And he was a narcissist. That's why it felt so good to me because he was like my dad. Very familiar. Ooh, let me have it. Charming and lovely.

[Pete Holmes]

Could I get my dad? But smoking.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, but, like, total babe.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And that's the. That's the spark, is. It's familiarity. It's your nervous system picking up on. You're gonna. My day up and it's like, yeah, I am. And that's why we're chasing it in a familiar way.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're back to our brain that doesn't want to do any new work.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Nope. Because it loves patterns. And so when I meet. That's why. When people are like, I didn't feel the spark, I'm like, good, go out with that person again. Maybe they're healthy for you. Healthy equals boring. Because your nervous system is used to this. So when it doesn't have that, it's like, I don't know what this is. This is healthy. This is safe. I don't know. I don't know how to feel comfortable in safety. I know chaos.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Obviously, there's a slight. I have a slight defensive. Because I did feel the spark with Val. But I know. I know you know what I'm saying.

[Sabrina Zohar]

There's a difference between this, like, over.

[Pete Holmes]

You can have a good time. Let me. Let me say this. And I've told this to Val, the woman who I dated, that I think was a replaying of patterns. I was unhealthily, manically obsessed with this person and would stay on the phone for hours and would text constantly and all this sort of stuff. So it was an infatuation. And I love Val. As I'd put. I'd put that on the scales of the gods. Like my golden heart for Valley. What a weird thing to say. What a psycho.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Burn it all down.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd put it on the scales. I'm just thinking about. There was an American Gods episode where in the afterlife, they have to weigh their heart. So that's what. I can't believe you saw that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I did.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. I'm glad. Because if you didn't know what I was talking about, we'd all just have to own that. I said I'd put my golden heart on the scales of the gods. On the scales of the gods, I'd put it on.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Their impersonations are a little too.

[Pete Holmes]

They're freaking me out too.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I didn't like it. Beautiful. Melania, I love you so much. Can you imagine? You can bleed me. We can talk. Or not talk. I love the silence. Sacred silence. Anyway, I am. Was never infatuated with Valerie in that way.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That Limerence.

[Pete Holmes]

Limerance.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Limerence is Limerence.

[Pete Holmes]

I once knew a man from Nantucket. What are we talking about? That's a dad joke.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That felt like it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll tell you what it is, but I. I appreciate. Oh, I didn't mean you can't no.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Limerence is just an infatuation. It's just an obsession with the idea of somebody.

[Pete Holmes]

Limerence sounds like an incubus cover band, by the way.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It comes full circle, as Trump says that I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Full circle. Beautiful. I love a full circle.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And scene.

[Pete Holmes]

Make circles. Full again. It's not quite right today, actually. The impression's a little off. Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I know. It's just limerence is like this obsession. It's a state. Because what happens is. And, like, this is going to go a little deeper. But when we become obsessed with somebody, the idea of somebody, one, what we're looking at is. Yeah, like, if I can get you. What does that mean about me? H. Because, like, if I don't. Right. They're unattainable. They're hot and cold. They're inconsistent. Like my parents. Right. So if that feels familiar to me, if I can get them. Repetition compulsion is one thing that Freud did. Right. Outside of saying that we want to our parents, was that repetition compulsion is we are going to repeat the parts of us that are unhealed until we face it. So I'm going to continue to date the piece of the people that remind me of my father until I'm ready to face it. Because if I can get this narcissist to change, Change, it would have made all of that go away. It never does.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Never does.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Then you're in therapy, and then you're.

[Pete Holmes]

Here on this podcast.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Then you're me and you. You're us. It's okay. I made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

There's your clip.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I listened to Direction.

[Pete Holmes]

What was I gonna say? Oh, spark. And then I was, okay, now I'm gonna put this to you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's really just to see what you. You. You can respond however you like is what I mean. Val and I. I think. No, I don't think I'm. We have a very successful relationship. We've been together for 12 years, and, you know, it's everything you would think. It's like, we love each other more. Every in every metric keeps growing and getting better, and it's safe. And I'm not just going to brag, but what I am going to say. Say is sometimes people say, like, what's your. What's the secret? Right. And I'm gonna. I think there's a chance you might disagree with this, and that's fine. A lot of people are like, well, it's a choice. I'm not even gonna look at you. They're like, every day I get up and I choose her again. And it just sounds so fucking. It sounds like overnight oats. Yeah, it's like getting through a bowl of overnight oats. It's a choice and it's the marriage I want. We work at it or like, you know, you just recommit all these efforts, all of this, like, efforting. And I'm. I do count myself as a very, very lucky person. Specific lucky privilege. Blast. Whatever you want to say specifically in relationship. In this relationship that I'm like, we don't work at it. We do. We do micro workings. It's about these, like one pennies, not $500 at a time. It's like every day there's a little. We're still seducing each other. We're still taking care of our bodies or. Oh, my God, they're coming for us. They're coming for us. I know it's your dad. He wants to fight me. I'm gay. Am I gay? But he fights like this. This is more evidence.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He's like sock and bop a robot.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not a stereotype, though, that gay people fight like this. I'm making a new one. You know how the gays are fighting like this. Go to a gay bar, there's always two guys. I'm just kidding. That riff is questionable. What I'm saying is we're kind of in that camp. And I'd like your take on this of like, we just really felt like an unspoken perfect yes with this person. Not there was like a courting and a settling into it. But, like, what do you take from that? I don't need to give you more.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What I take from that is the most important.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry, we're out of time.

[Sabrina Zohar]

End scene. I'll just go myself. And this was fun.

[Pete Holmes]

When you see my strategy, I'm like, please stay with me. I interrupt with dumb jokes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, but. But that's. That you're like, this is how my marriage is so successful. The minute I asked vow something, it's. And we're done.

[Pete Holmes]

Honestly though, she would laugh at that. And that is a little sonar ping for going like, please, please. My. My love language is benefit of the doubt. Like, he's. We're just trying to have fun.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But if somebody could very rightfully be like, stop interrupting me. I'd be like, goodbye story. Yeah, exactly.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I think, I mean, what. I heard this.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm putting the mic down.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's the mic. Micros. The micro. It's the same as, you know, when we have it. Stack. If you're gonna say, tomorrow, I'm gonna lose a thousand pounds. It might be aggressive, £100, but you've never gotten off the couch. Well, I'm not gonna expect you to go to the gym then tomorrow and do all of these things. It's like, that's going to be unattainable. And your nervous system is like, I'm good, versus I'm going to do one small thing. I'm gonna put my sneakers by the door, and then tomorrow I'll put my socks by the door. Because we're training our nervous system to be okay with that. I'm with you. I think it's also the same as therapy. It's not about what happens in the sessions. It's not these big 500 transactions. It's the moments in between of what we do. Would say. I would argue to say my partner and I the same. We. We don't work on it. We don't.

[Pete Holmes]

My boyfriend.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, your boyfriend. I'm. I apologize. Yeah. I need to he. Wink back. Oh, yeah. No, he.

[Pete Holmes]

A little test.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, no, he's gonna wink back. He. He's. He's into it. He's picking up what you're putting down.

[Pete Holmes]

This is a pass, fail class, my friend. You just passed.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He's loving every second of it. Because it's the same. We don't. Like, we don't fight. And when I say we don't fight, we don't get into big blowouts. We'll have disagreements, agreement. But usually what we do is the one thing that I saved our relationship is in the moment, we have one thing. What we say to each other. And in that moment, we know, like, yo, put your phone down, and eyes to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And if something happens to avoid resentment, I'd like to share. We know instantly.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that instantly.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because he's.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what Val and I say? We go, will you join me in my initiative?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like we have to say it as a joke almost. But we go, will you please, Like a politician. Like, will you please join me?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Initiative.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And then we say the thing. But there is a phrase. You help me uncover that. That's one of the little pennies. We go, like, let's not keep going, though.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's a bid for connection. Yes, it's a bid for connection. Because.

[Pete Holmes]

Not to resent.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly. Because in the moments, like. And Ryan will start. I will say to avoid. You know, to avoid resentment, I need to share with you because I'm gonna go insane. And I'll overthink. And he'll say, I know I. Like, he does not like to talk about feelings and emotions. And that's just his. And it's. It's like, and we're working on it. And so he'll say to avoid resentment, I know I need to share this, because it's not going to help if I don't. And I know at that point, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yo, so much more loving to say it then in real time 100.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because in the moment I can go, oh. And then I disarm. Like, he'll even say, hey, I need you to bring it down a notch. Like, you're. You're not really listening to me right now. I hear that. And my nervous system is like, yo, dude, snap out of it, man. We need to be present. And I. Allows me to, like, stop. And I'll scan the room and I'm like, I know where I'm at. Yes, I'm safe. You're okay. And we can have a conversation. Because then, even if it's a three hour conversation, we talk about it and then we see what comes. Is it makeup sex? Is it, you know, you leave. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Whatever it is, you get two things. One, Val. And I say I'm in my pain body right now, which is an Eckhart Tolle thing, which is a way of saying I'm flooded with an overreaction.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the other thing that really helps our relationship. You're making me realize there are a lot of strategies. They're just, they're comfortable and subtle and small. And one of them is if I'm. I. I would tell you if it was, but it's not. But if I'm mad about. Like, it's not about Val. But if I'm mad about something and I'm venting, this really is Val's love languages. I'll be going like, and they this and this. And then I go, I'm just venting. I'm okay. Like, in the middle of it, I'll be like, literally, I'll go. And the fuck you're safe. Shit. Like, like. And she. I mean, she's so into that it gets humid. Just.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Wet vagina joke. Listen, I'm saying you got it. You just didn't find it funny. Oh, it was clear. Oh, yeah, it was clear. Yeah, yeah. Clammy. Clammy. Yeah, it got clammy in there.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, it did.

[Pete Holmes]

You're a good winking couple. But, like, those check ins. I know Val's love language. Is transparency.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, well, you married the right guy.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And Ryan will do that. He'll be like, I'm offline. And that's kind of the same as what you're doing. Like, I'm offline is like, when he's saying, like, I'm not processing.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm closed.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We have that language, too. We go, I'm closed.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because the thing is, muffin shop is closed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. It's just the big Brooklyn closed. What if I was on a plane right now?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Now no one can read your mind.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Sabrina Zohar]

But I mean, remind.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, that's it. It's like, no. How would Val know that? You're like, I'm not seeing this clearly unless you tell her.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because then what happens? You go back in your trauma if you're like, I have to be hyper vigilant. I have to assess your facial expression. No, I want to be in a relationship with you. I don't want to parent you.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And it's like, that's the thing of. It's funny because we notice how even as we're talking about it. Yeah. You have tools. You have coping mechanisms. You have things that work that were. Because what would have been the opposite? You, Maybe with your partner, it would have been, I shut down. I. I get small now you're learning. That doesn't work anymore. I have new things. It doesn't mean that you're not working towards it. That just means that you're learning new ways, that it becomes more instinctual.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's why it doesn't feel like work.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. I love that. And I need that. Val and I, last night, we were talking about creative projects, and she's making stuff, and I'm making stuff. And sometimes we get, like, it gets tight. There it was. It was fun to notice that we were getting tight. This is a dinner last night. And I was like, I, again, I'm just hitting this ball to you to comment on it, but I was like, in real time saying, it's weird. It's funny that we're having this weird conversation like, that we're both kind of like. Because she's going, my projects are valid. And I'm going, my projects are valid. And, like, sometimes it's just really helpful to go, like, your project, like, saying exactly what it is, like, you're important. You matter. I'm on your side. I, I. And I want to understand and, And I know you know me. My. My pain body is Always like, my job is fun, so everybody thinks it's easy or something like that or. Or it doesn't matter. Like, basically that. Like, basically just. Just that I thought it was deeper, but it's not. And. And my pain body will be like, I'm sorry that part of my job is staying in hotels and sleeping in. But it is, you know, when you have a kid too, that that becomes like, when you look forward to. Yeah. But then, you know what else we do is I sorry, I'm all over the place. But I'm like, I'm honest about. I do get to stay in hotels and sleep in. And I like that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

100.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I meant.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, the. The. It's funny, Ryan. We at least me. Our relationship were such polar opposites. He was in tech nine to five. You come in, you clock in, you clock out. I like organize and structure rigidity. And then there's me. They're like, I am like. We say he's the picture frame and I'm the picture. Like, I get be the everything. And he keeps me in. In. But what that comes. A lot of it doesn't always jive. And so I'll be super excited about something. You don't give a about it. And finding a balance of knowing that, like, your partner matters if you're actually in a relationship or if you're dating. Start to give a. And get curious. That's the thing is, like, curiosity will solve so many of our problems if we shut our goddamn mouth. And instead of trying to defend. Instead of trying to get curious of, like, hey, could you tell me a little bit more about what made you feel that? Because then I can disarm and actually listen to what. And, like, I don't feel heard. Oh, you don't feel heard. Okay. What made you feel. Well, three times you got your phone out. You're right. That is really disrespectful.

[Pete Holmes]

That is a micro owning it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Own it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'll have so much more respect for somebody. The deflection, the defensive. The. That's. That's not emotional maturity. And if you don't have that, your ne. Emotional intelligence is only sexy until you date. Or isn't sexy until you date someone that doesn't have it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Then next thing you know, you're like, all I needed to do is say sorry. And now we're 45 minutes deep into this. And if you had just said I'm sorry 45 minutes ago, you would been have moved on.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. And here's Another one I'm going to hit to you. I'm excited to hear your response. Something that's been really helpful for me, and we do almost every day, is I say, I'm sorry, I was just embarrassed. Meaning there's some weird flare up. And then if you walk it back two clicks, you just realize that you were embarrassed that you didn't know what Parliament was. You know what I mean? And in that moment, you go like, who gives a fuck? And you start doing something.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you go, like, for me, getting in touch with that specific emotion. Because when you're embarrassed, you're you. You send out the troops to like, I am valid, I am smart, I am good, or I'm worthy or whatever. And they over correct when really it's just nice to say, like, I'm embarrassed. I felt, I felt like I said something stupid and then I was over correcting or whatever it was.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I've done that too. I'm like, I'm sorry. I was scared. Like, or if I snap, I get frustrated, you know, like sometimes because, like, I still, I mean, my business is new. I'm still navigating the ups and the downs. And one day you're here and it' social media, it's all the variables that are really tough. And then when you have the issues that I have that hit childhood core wounds and validation and external. It's like, it all becomes very muddy. The amount of times I've snap or like, you say something and even mine will be like, whoa, wait, where'd that come from? And I'll stop and be like, I'm sorry, I'm just really scared. And I totally took that out on you and I apologize. That was my intention.

[Pete Holmes]

Fear and embarrassment really is fear, by the way. It's just like, I was scared. Shame is fear.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Shame. Shame is like, sad is fear.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding. Sad is. No, angry is sad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Sad, mad, glad are the primary emotions. And then things that come on top of it. So we had a therapist once where I would say, I. I was frustrated. Okay. Frustration wasn't here. What's there?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And at first I thought that was a trick question she would ask me. And I'm like, do you have an answer that you want?

[Pete Holmes]

And she would be sad, mad or glad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. And then she would be like, sad, mad, glad. And I was like, oh, you could have just told me that.

[Pete Holmes]

It's been 20 minutes now I'm mad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. And so I was like. And so when we start to understand that, and then when you give Credence. And you say, I'm sad. It's like you allow. Allow that part of you to be like, hey, thanks for seeing me. Nobody has. Nobody listens to me. And you're like, I'm here. I'd like to know what you're. The curiosity. That's the only way. Otherwise I would be telling myself I'm insane.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, what do we do? I think you and I are both operating under a certain assumption, which is a lot of people. I think it's a certain amount of, like, mental stability, meaning there are people. And one of the things I'm most glad about, however, I'm programmed. Programmed. And I could be wrong, obviously, but I think I'm pretty good at going, this person is an emotional vampire.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They appear to be sharing with me and wanting to connect, but really they are. I'm not trying to be funny, but they. When I say, like, insane or something, I'm not. That's too broad of a brush. But I don't have the language. I'm saying I'm talking to somebody and they are telling me, like, I'll give an. I had a five minute conversation with somebody recently and they told me about someone in their family who had died. And I was like, what the fuck is hap? Like, we were eating pretzels.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Trauma dump.

[Pete Holmes]

What is this? Yeah, trauma dump. But it's also an earmark. It's an indicator of something unsafe to me. And not everybody has that. It's my daughter's six, for example. And as we go, we'll start teaching her, like, these ways. So I'd just like you to address, like, you and I are kind of extolling the virtues of sharing and being like, I'm embarrassed or I'm scared. And then there is kind of a perversion or a grotesque, grotesque version of that where it becomes sort of inverted or weaponized. Would you address that?

[Sabrina Zohar]

100, I think so many people. I don't even know why I bother. Just the mic. Is the mic even on. So I would say the podcast is.

[Pete Holmes]

Released and it's just me. That's when you know, I am your. Don't date me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

My trauma just follows me everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't get away from this.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Can't get away from it. And all the clips are just of you. And I'm like, thank you so much to our brilliant guest, Sabrina Zohar. She bestowed so much wisdom.

[Pete Holmes]

Check out do the work. Keep saying it. Wonderful podcast.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So many people will listen. That's the problem. I don't even remember what we talked about.

[Pete Holmes]

That's my job. It's not your job. As I said, there are people that weaponize it and invert it, and it's grotesque.

[Sabrina Zohar]

A lot of people will. And there's two different versions, right? And we think about love bombing. And you think about, like, if. Oh, yeah, you know, the coming on really strong. My mama always says, when you start at 100, where else you going to go? Like, you're not leaving space for more.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, my therapist gave me that note too. He's like, what are you doing?

[Sabrina Zohar]

What are you doing? Cuz there's two school, right? There's two roads that it really goes down. Now, of course, there might be others, but off. So there's the one of like, the narcissist, right? Their intention. Its intention is really important. Their intention is to manipulate, to love bomb, to come on really strong because they want to disarm you. So that way you feel safe with them, right? Oh, I can trust them. Because then when they get. Go into the devalue stage where they start to put you down of the like, you know, yeah, you look good in white. I mean, considering how your hair color is something like that. That's like a backhanded that you're like, huh? Oh, but because I love you. And you're like, right. So the intent is manipulation. Then there's the other school. And the intent is to feel safe. And so they'll go all of the oversharing for someone to see them. And that's where, like, at least for me, like, I've dated people like that. I've been that person where like, all of a sudden, second date, I'm crying, being like, my brother was taken when I was 10. And you're like, wait, whoa. I just really wanted to expedite that intimacy with you. And what's so important is, like, if you meet that you do that you deal with those types of people. One, take a look at yourself. Like, who do I not feel hurt around? What story am I trying to share? Like, what's coming up for me. But when I receive that, usually what I'll say is, like, the guy said to me, honestly, it was a really good response. He was like, I want to support you, but I don't know you well enough in order to. And I feel like this is a little overwhelming for me.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry. You were dating second. Dale.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Second date.

[Pete Holmes]

It's amazing.

[Sabrina Zohar]

All right. I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Trying to give this guy so sweet. An award.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Such a great guy.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to support you, but I Don't feel like I. What was it?

[Sabrina Zohar]

He's like, I want to support you, but I don't feel like I know you well enough in order to know how to right now. And he was like, this is just a lot for me to bandle.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, that's great.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Fair.

[Pete Holmes]

And then like to put that in the. Take some of the politeness out of it. It's like I don't feel comfortable or you're scaring me a little bit. That's what it is is you're talking to somebody and you're like, why do I know your cat killed itself, right? Why do I know it?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Why do I know that I shouldn't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Know that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And then it puts the other person way too susceptible. You just. You're going around giving such important, vulnerable information that then you don't know who I am. You don't know that. Maybe later I'll be like, no wonder your cat killed itself. Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And all of a sudden you're like, right, right. And it's like, because I know the cord to pull, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Don't give that away.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Give it away.

[Pete Holmes]

And it, that's honestly the person that I met most recently that was like this. I actually spent a good amount of time worrying about them. And I met them, them one time.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Fair.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm going, where is this lady?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Where's the adult? Where's the adult in the room? Cuz that's a kid that's walking around thinking that. Cuz that's really the thing is like when we get, when we have our littles. When we get triggered your little believes that they need to protect you. So like even for instance, I had a once where like we had like when I had the decent assistant. I spent like $15,000 on trademarking a bunch of stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Flex.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Duh, right? That's what you do when you're an idiot. But anyways.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it was burned.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It burned it. No, trust me, don't worry.

[Pete Holmes]

Still had some left.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not as much. And I am regretting every single day that I did that. But in the moment, fear. I was so scared, I was like, I'll do anything. And what happened is like my little thought she had to figure this out. So she's going through all of these panic, panic, panic, until I realized like, hey girl, you got me. She didn't like that. She was like, oh God, you. And it's like, yeah, you got me. Sorry. But that's what I mean by like, ain't nobody come and save you. Because here's the thing. You know what Disney lied to us about? They talk about happily ever after.

[Pete Holmes]

Fair price for a churro. You gotta pause.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's true, though.

[Pete Holmes]

If you want the golden, you gotta pause. If you want these churro riffs, what did Disneyland.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do. No, but I do want the churro riffs.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you don't.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do. Love.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobody wants these.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You'd be surprised.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm. I'm abandoning myself. People do want these.

[Sabrina Zohar]

They do.

[Pete Holmes]

Lots of people want these.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, they do. They're literally here for it. Hey. Oh. See, you're little. I see you. I hear you.

[Pete Holmes]

I see him, too. He's so cute.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Well, anyhow, Disney lied to us because they talk about happily ever after, but what they don't talk about is like, what does that look like?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Prince Eric. Was he an alcoholic? Like, he could. Cinderella couldn't even identify you from your face. He had to know your shoe size. But yet you think marrying him, did he have a drinking problem? Did Beast in the Be like, what happened to Beast after When Beauty married Hungry Gone. Gone.

[Pete Holmes]

Hungry Gone.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Stockholm syndrome. And you're like, was she. You know, did she gain 30 pounds and not leave the house? House. Like, we don't look at what comes after.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And that's. That's right. Talk about a Disney churro.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. So many riffs. They're all gone, though. Now you and I have a very. Beast, definitely hater. Beast definitely hater.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I just want to say 100% candlesticks and all.

[Pete Holmes]

The first fight. Why do you think Chip was chipped? Beast got a temper.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But why? Why do you think? Are you beast? Because he had a candlestick. And you've said a lot of things about lighting things, like on fire.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, my God. You're a beast. Val is beauty.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the rose.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Fair play.

[Pete Holmes]

Weirdest response.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm the rose.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the rose in a glass case.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm in a glass case of emotions.

[Pete Holmes]

I am in a glass case of emotion. Well, that's the other relationship tip. This is so absurd, but it's going to be the most honest thing I've ever said is find somebody who finds the way that you're annoying to be delightful.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like if. If the way that I'm too much, which I concede. I like to say I'm shushed by children. I have been shushed by children.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Get that.

[Pete Holmes]

Val is about it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that is the best feeling in the world. If we're at a party And I start to feel like I'm not. Like I'm vanishing, which is an unsafe feeling for me. And I start saying inappropriate things. Val might be kind of like. And then there's a part of her that goes like, he's not boring.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, she likes it. And I mean that. And that's true love. That and the way that Val is. Whatever. I. This is. I'm not trying to be schmaltzy. I'm just saying, like, she's not as extreme as I am. If one of us is more forgiving or allowing, it's her.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I've got old.

[Pete Holmes]

Old frame over here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Old frame over here. I've got stoic.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean the frame is disproportionate.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Weird. Holding the art emotionally. I. I'm the same. I am. My friend always said. I remember telling him, I'm like, I always feel like I'm too much. He's like, then let them go. Find less. And I was like, shaboop. You're right. Because kick rocks without shoes. Like, I don't really give a. If I'm too much. There's other people. I get. Even to this day, I remember I did Nicole Byers podcast, and I had people message me that out. What?

[Pete Holmes]

Mentions of other podcasts. We don't want that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay. I did an unnamed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You know, I did another podcast audio recording. Yeah. I did a. It's weird, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And somebody actually found me on insta and DM'd me and was like, you need to learn how to take a breath. You spoke too fast and you gave me a headache.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And it's like, how about. Here's. Here's my best advice for you, and I'm going to say this with a lot of love, and I'm going to tell you something you might need to learn.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you write this?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. I was like, go yourself. I was like, that's it. I said, obviously, you've never been punched in the face. And I was like, for you. For you to unsolic. For you to reach out to someone and tell me that you don't like how I do things. That's anxious attachment at its finest. I'm uncomfortable with my surroundings, so I need to control everything besides myself. Because you know what? You have a choice. Walk. Keep going. Scroll.

[Pete Holmes]

Next, there's a pause button. It's the most pleasant button to touch. It looks like a Twix.

[Sabrina Zohar]

What a crazy thing. But trying to control other people is never. But if you actually like when I. When I met Ryan first date. I came in, I was guns blazing and not a negative. I was just myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Because I realized if I'm not. Well, if you don't like me, I'd rather you not like me for who I am than you not like.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's get this over with. Let's get this over with.

[Sabrina Zohar]

If I'm too much. Goodbye.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't like me now.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's why we. On the first day, I wanted to get it out of the way. Not saying everyone has to.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But it worked out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I. I get that. Two things, two jokes come to mind. Mind is sometimes I. I think I've said this on stage or maybe on the pod. I go, I'd hang out with me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that doesn't mean I like people who are like me. I often don't.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I get that.

[Pete Holmes]

But I would hang out with me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was gonna say. Cuz people like that are often like me. Trigger me. Because then I'm like, ugh. And then, oh, that's me.

[Pete Holmes]

No, Val's not like me. She's not that we're both that kind of.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You and I shouldn't date then. So you. Maybe you and Ryan are great for each other.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. It's true.

[Pete Holmes]

You'll notice that I never once ripped that you and I should date because I acknowledge that right away. Ryan, on the other hand, I don't even know. It's not a compliment. 100% JK. You just walked right into that one. You and I are both the kind of sprinklers that something disrupts us. We're one of those. One of those. You don't you ever see two of those next to each other?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, no, no, no. He's floods.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's fish. No, no, those go next to grass. Grass.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Dry grass, if you will. But yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you moistened them up. Now look at them.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I did.

[Pete Holmes]

The winking game is on point. It's very strong.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I tried. It's all I have. Really.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not true. You stop abandoning yourself.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Talk about self deprecation.

[Pete Holmes]

I drew a cartoon for the New Yorker Flex. They didn't buy it. Anti flex, but I think about it all the time. And it's a therapist talking to a car. They should have bought it just for the caption.

[Sabrina Zohar]

100%.

[Pete Holmes]

And the therapist, what is he saying? He's saying that's. That's how New Yorker cartoon is. Always do their captions, they go. And what is he saying? He's saying they build tension. He's just saying, ideally, we'll get you to a place where you can validate your own parking, which I think about every time I have my parking validated. It's a classic cartoon. It's a classic.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I really.

[Pete Holmes]

They didn't buy it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm. That's shocking.

[Pete Holmes]

Classic.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I. I question 300 bucks. I question their taste.

[Pete Holmes]

You're not gonna give me 300 bucks?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Bucks. I will.

[Pete Holmes]

And I mean, do I not.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's not the same.

[Pete Holmes]

But here's the point. I give myself 300 bucks.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. And then you can just doctor it up. You just put it on and just. Then you can tell.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I could just Instagram it and then just be like. And that's how I made no money. But anyway, what I'm saying is, I thought you might enjoy that because we're supposed to be validating our own parking 100%.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, it's. It's a weird. Being an adult is weird. Like, nobody teaches us any of this stuff. Nobody tells us how to do any of this. We're all walking around. It's like, just in our own echo chambers. Oh, God. I remember once I had the. The first. The only time I had my own podcast where I didn't share the episode. The one time, one guest ever. I'm not gonna say who it is.

[Pete Holmes]

But Ryan, what is their name rhyme with. I'm just kidding.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I. I was about to say. And I was, like, thinking about it, but I remember I asked Ryan, I came down and I was like, can you please listen to this? I was like, I just kind of need someone else. And he came up and he's like. He said his first. He. He spoke about himself in third person 23 times. And he kept saying, like, if you work with someone like me, and they would say his name. And I was like, but wait, isn't that you? But he kept telling me the noise between you is. And then. And I was like, okay, so are you just trying to say the narrative that I've created, but nonetheless, the fucking echo chamber that I've created up here that only knows the same sandstorm is going to keep doing the same shit until we do? Nothing changes if nothing changes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And if that. If that was the longest winded way of me telling people to stay true to themselves, I don't know what is.

[Pete Holmes]

I loved it. And I thought about Breath of the Wild and the Sandstorm level. Don't worry about it. Ryan knows what I'm talking about. Him out. He's rock Hard right now.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I was gonna say you guys run off into the sunset. You and your broad shoulders, both of you.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, come on, I'm swimming. Took me 46 years. What was I gonna say? Okay, it's not a. It's not a speed round, but it's a short question. Where are you on the dating apps?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, I'm not.

[Pete Holmes]

Where can I find you on them? No, I'm just like, what do you. Do you think people should use them?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I do. I met my partner on Hinge, so I'm a bit by biased this one. And the reason I say is because you got to be a better buyer. I think a lot of people use apps with one just unrealistic expectations, as if everyone on that app is on there for the same reasons. When it's like, no, people are newly single. Some people have been there for a while, some want casual, some don't. Like, you got to be a better buyer and also manage your fucking expectations.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, let's stop on be a better buyer. It means like, know what you want.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Know what you want and also be able to discern because like when I see how many people they're like, well, I messaged this guy and blah, blah, and it's like, okay, what did you like about his product profile? There's nothing. You list me. Or if I'm like, okay, Ryan's famous thing. Cuz on the, on the podcast we'll. Or like we do profile audits so people will send them the number one thing. He'll like, have me read it and be like, all right, name three things you remember. Most of the time I remember nothing. Or it's like you like cats. You had a cat in your photo and you really like dressed up as a cat. Like there was just something random. Yeah, most people are not looking to be discerning. They're seeing it as like, oh my God, he's really cool. Maybe he'll like me. Instead of what do I like about that?

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Sabrina Zohar]

What are my expectations? Or they message me. Okay, well, it's taken six weeks and we haven't made a plan. It's like, be more discerning. Understand what it is that you're actually looking for.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That way you can walk away from that. Doesn't align speed.

[Pete Holmes]

Agree.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So to me, dating apps I think are good if you understand you have a relate.

[Pete Holmes]

But aren't the apps designed to discourage that type of. Not that that's your job. You're not an app developer. I'm just saying, like, seems like it's it wants you to get into that casino.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Of course. It's a business. Now, here's the fun thing. You know that the apps are actually 70% men?

[Pete Holmes]

Of course.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Right. We think that they're. We think.

[Pete Holmes]

Why your dad opened the bar. He did.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. It's true. That was the 80s. Between porn theaters and a gay club, you can imagine the colorful palace I had.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, don't sniff them up.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay. Don't cut.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't say that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Katie, edit that out.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding. Leave it in.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Poor Katie.

[Pete Holmes]

Poor Katie's like, welcome to Monday.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Katie is not. She's like, this is.

[Sabrina Zohar]

This is what I have to deal with.

[Pete Holmes]

Out. What percentage of your life this is. Katie, don't do it. It's 01. I'm sure.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

It might be. It might be in the. It might be in the single digits.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But nonetheless, moral of the story is just like, if you're going to use apps, manage your. Manage how you have a relationship with them. Right. Like, if you're like. For me, I had to set a lot of boundaries. I couldn't go on all the time because I was swiping, swiping, swiping. Now, yes. Is their goal to keep you on the apps? Of course they're making money, but that's why I don't look at it as the end all, be all. It is one way of all these different ways that I might meet somebody.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's all.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And if someone doesn't try to make a date with you in a week, it's like, don't waste your fucking time.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, what brought that brought to mind? This type where you're talking to somebody again. I actually think some of my introversion is that I'm so overwhelmed. I told you that I've been thinking about that woman that told me that. I was like, I'm worried about you. I've been thinking about her a lot.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, actually, it might seem callous. It's actually really sensitive. And similarly, I knew somebody, I was talking to somebody recently that they're like, talking about their great girlfriend. And then you're like, when's the last time you saw them? And it's like two months ago or something. And then you're like, when are you going to see them? And it's like, well, they're in Nova Scotia or something. It's always just like you're over here going like, that guy's cheating on you, or he's not that into you, or you just want to Say like. Like, is this what you want? Some people, that is what they want. That's heaven. They just want to be alone most of the time and occasionally get a gift from Nova Scotia and some of that Nordic dick.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was about to say sometimes the dick is. Or sometimes the gift is a photo of a dick.

[Pete Holmes]

Of a Nordic dick with a little hat on it with the horns. But I guess here's. Here's how I'm going to formulate that as a question. How. It's a leading question. How important is it to know what you want?

[Sabrina Zohar]

It is beyond important. Because if you don't know what it is that you want, how are you expecting to be able to receive what it is that you need? Because like I. If I. If I wasn't so painfully clear about the way. Not that I don't care about what they look. No, no. Get rid of all those stupid.

[Pete Holmes]

Clearly.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. That's your boyfriend first.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but I'm rough with them.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Yeah, you are.

[Pete Holmes]

Keeps him on his toes. I don't know why. It was Trump. When I date you, I'm trouble.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Perfect for him.

[Pete Holmes]

Love his shorts. Beautiful little shorts.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Five inch always. But not. Oh, not that five inch.

[Pete Holmes]

Five inch to the knee.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No inseam. Five inch inseam.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, keep them little.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Keep. Well, keep them looking.

[Pete Holmes]

If you keep them looking.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You know what I'm saying?

[Pete Holmes]

We need a montage of all the winks. We need a montage of all the winks.

[Sabrina Zohar]

All the wing saying it without saying it.

[Pete Holmes]

It was some good wing game. Keep going. But you don't remember where you were.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, I don't. Truth be told, it was a bunch.

[Pete Holmes]

Of know what you want.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Know what you want because you're at the end of the day what you were talking about. Somatic. The somatic stuff. The feeling. Because if I don't identify, like for me, I knew I needed somebody that acts of service was a way that they love me. So when I went mine. And I love that we had our third date. I remember I was leaving and I told him how I don't really eat lunch cuz I me, I'm all over the place.

[Pete Holmes]

Charles doesn't eat lunch, huh? Well. Oh, King Charles. Excuse me. Just downgraded him. I nag him, so.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Poor guy. Yeah. Another boyfriend.

[Pete Holmes]

It's another boyfriend. I keep his shorts short and I keep pranking Charles on speed dial. I don't know how to finish that. Ref, can you go?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just starved for more.

[Pete Holmes]

But he also doesn't eat lunch.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, So I don't I just. That's my.

[Pete Holmes]

Food slows you down.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The adhd, like, I just. I don't think about it. My brain is all over. And then by the time it's. I'm like, oh, it's 8 o' clock.

[Pete Holmes]

And I haven't eaten that I guessed food slows you down.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'm like, it's my brain.

[Pete Holmes]

That is a microaggression.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But it's probably true. But anyway, it was a loving guest when we first. When I left his house, he gave me lunch and he was like, hey, I know that you don't really eat. So he's like, I made leftovers last night, so I wanted you to have food for tomorrow.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. The ladies of America salute you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just, ooh, the panties have dropped.

[Pete Holmes]

Collectively, they would slide down if they weren't sopping wet. Jesus Christ.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We are.

[Pete Holmes]

The vaginal riffs on this episode are not suitable for ads.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Which is funny because I don't normally. So I'm going with it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's fine.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But nonetheless, like, if I didn't know how I wanted to feel with someone, I would have been like, he's like a nice guy. He's not really getting. But I didn't really know what it is that I needed. I knew what it is that I wanted, which was not healthy.

[Pete Holmes]

Tuna Mountain is what you needed, right?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, actually, though. Anyway. But what I actually wanted, or what I thought I wanted was somebody who was grandiose and all those things. But what I needed was actually somebody a lot calmer, a lot quieter. Not quieter in that way, but like more centered.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And quieter because I don't up more.

[Pete Holmes]

Of a Steady Eddie.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who knows? He might be a real gabble Gus. You wouldn't know.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No, he doesn't. He doesn't like talking.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like Frogger, but the traffic is just constant. And he's. You're like, I like my little frog. He just stays there. This doesn't have a window.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Now, you should have seen when I first met him. The whole time I'm sitting there and I was like, you didn't have a personality. Because I would say something and he would do that.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, it takes him a minute. Pretty fast at riffing. I've gotten like one out of eight in, so I want you to know you're not alone.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Trauma.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, that's not a. That's not a dig on you. This is a day off for me.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was bowling.

[Pete Holmes]

You think I want to be riffing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You're welcome.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't I don't need to be hosting the show. I'd love. You're a dream guest.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just take it.

[Pete Holmes]

You are. I really want you to know that. What a wonderful guest you are.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry to be sincere. It's off putting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. I can see how wet vaginas. I can see the visceral discomfort of, like. I.

[Pete Holmes]

We both didn't know what to do. No, I was like, a what?

[Sabrina Zohar]

You're like, thank. Thank you. I'm learning that. That's my thing of like, just know. Say. Know how to say thank you and not follow it up with, you're right, I'm terrible. No, thank you. But you can imagine when we first met, I was like, wow, this guy doesn't talk. And what I realized was, he doesn't talk, but when he does, it takes him a minute to process and to think. So now I've learned to shut my mouth.

[Pete Holmes]

Not doing savvy. Eddies are good for.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You. Shots fired.

[Pete Holmes]

I was gonna say nut job, but I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I couldn't do it. Your eyes were, like, listening, what's he gonna say? And I was like, don't say nut job. And then I did.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Then on a day when I was like, I need to build myself up, come to Pete's podcast and for the.

[Pete Holmes]

Oyster jokes and call you a nutjob. See, that's what Val would find character charming. If I said, you know, I was going to call you something, and then I said, don't say nut job. And Val would be like, but you did say nut job by saying, don't say nut job. That's what you want. I. We don't bicker. But there is, like a but. You do see that. You just did it, and we love it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So when people do. No offense, and you're like, that doesn't make it any better.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. Or that's just my opinion. It's like, those are bad shoes. I'm just saying it like it is. It's how it is to you. It's still rude, by the way. I don't think we spent enough time on you saying you've never been punched in the face. You typed it. Were your hands shaking when you typed it? Yeah. You were mad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was go. I was on.

[Pete Holmes]

You were mad.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was so mad.

[Pete Holmes]

But you did you read it before you hit send.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I sent it. Oh, I sent it, then you read it. And then I blocked him because I got scared.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, block.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I block. Blocked and blessed.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he doesn't get to blocked and blessed. Never heard that before. Is that a thing?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, it's very much in my world, Blocked and blessed. Why would I want you in my ecosystem is why would I want. You wouldn't come up to me in the. In person and say, that shits me.

[Pete Holmes]

Open the window. You just can't. You can't stick your head out and just listen to the people walking by.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The people that aren't doing the same thing. No, because there's a lot of people that don't put themselves in front of other people. And you don't understand what it feels like to receive, to have people tell you how much they don't like you for just being yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. And. And you know, there's a very good chance that you or I remind somebody of something. It has nothing to do with anything, though. Yeah, I think. Do you know Byron Katie's the work?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you do? Yeah, it's wonderful, right?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, it's great.

[Pete Holmes]

I just think you would like it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

There's. I was gonna say there's a lot because there's so many different schools of thought, there's so many modalities. And that's how I got to where I'm at, is I started to learn all these different isms that I really liked and like, translate. Can I talk, Frank? Frankly speaking, I'm in your mind.

[Pete Holmes]

That was a long gap. Both of us were just like, oh. She took a breath and you're like, Jesus Christ, what the is wrong with you? Put a sentence down together.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You can see in my brain is like. Cannot compute. You can see the up. And then he's like, we're back.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Now go throw up out of your mouth. Yeah, but I don't remember what I was going to say anyways.

[Pete Holmes]

That's my job. Yeah, but I don't remember this time.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Perfect. Brandon Boyd and porn theaters. That's all we were really going to talk about anyways.

[Pete Holmes]

Mom, dad, Brandon Boyd. Mistakes you've made, mistakes most make show up as yourself. Manifesting. You did talk about manifesting.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Manifesting is. I. I don't. I. I mean, we're in la, so you meet a lot of the like. Like good vibes only.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, well, I am communicating with my brow. Like, we're not crazy about manifesting, are we? Because I'm trying to lead you, but you can be however you want. Look at this face.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Still so much judgment that you don't even see. I'd see.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me about manifesting, because what I'm.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Trying to just Every so to manifest, you have to talk to the universe. And it's like, I would rather I look at it as I need to get really clear on what. Where I want to go so that I can be prepared to receive it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'll say this, and it does happen to be the girlfriend who I wish the best for. And that's very sincere. She was a very exciting, intense person who I was crazy about. This is the infatuation girl. She told me manifesting stories that blew my mind. Blew my mind, including kind of me. Like, it was weird. I was like, did I get pulled in by someone's. The secret thing, like, am I that.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You'Re on her vision board?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, basically that I heard the. Not the sirens call, but like I heard the. The pan flute and I just walked towards it. But like, there were some stories, like. And it sounded like you had a story where you manifested your first boyfriend. Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

His name was Brandon.

[Pete Holmes]

And his name was Brandon.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. I was it. Because I believe.

[Pete Holmes]

I hope you said that in the middle of your first sex sexual encounter where you're like, you have that same name is incubus.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I was thinking it. I was thinking it. That's why I did it. But I do. I don't believe. I think my issue is. And I've had a friend in New York years ago, and she was an actress. She reminded me of Tobias Finke. Like, she just was like, I'm an actor. But, like, never worked.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, didn't actually do anything similar short length as our. Never nude over here.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

I wish you guys could see Ryan is wearing Never nude. Not. Not denim.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not denim.

[Pete Holmes]

They're never nudes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Close enough.

[Pete Holmes]

That should be your. Your clothing never nude brand line. Just right line. Yes.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And she. But she was very much like that where like this girl just everything was her vision board and how she's manifesting. But the girl never went on a audition. Like, she never did anything. That's my thing of. If you want to manifest, get very clear on what it is that you want and then go make action. My goal. I want to be on tv. Okay. I want to be like a host. So then what does that mean? I need to position myself because I have a clear direction of where I'm going. But if I just sat at home every day and didn't do. I'm not manifesting any. I'm just sitting in delusion.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's interesting as you're saying that I'm like, you're. We. Let's say we are invoking the universe. You are a part. You're a lawful expression of the universe. So you can also be involved in that. That is that old church joke where they're like, guy prayed every day to win the lottery, and then one day God opens the heavens and goes, buy a ticket. I mean, it's a cliche for a reason. It's a good story. A lot of people are going, like, I'd like to be on tv. You'd be wondering, wonderful. On tv. And you should get in the mix, get involved, say it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Pursue that.

[Pete Holmes]

If only there was film in these cameras. I snorted. When you find out none of this.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Was real, recorded, and I find out that you don't even have a podcast, you're like, this is just for me.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I just want, like, meeting people. It's like the guy that goes through airport security to just hang out. I just buy a flight to LAX from Burbank, which thought it was a good time, just so I can go to Pandix Brow. It's fun. Okay.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's true. But now manifesting is real. I think it's real when you're real with yourself. I don't believe in the woo woo. Like, oh, my God, I'm tapping it. I ain't believe whatever the you want to believe. We're in la. But I do believe that if I get really clear on what I want and I actually believe that I could do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I don't think there's anything that stops me. That's in my control.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Like, love it. I'm trying to remember. I, at one point I put this together and it became this thing I try to remember. I think everything you get, you did manifest, but you don't get everything you manifest.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Does that make sense?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because there's just too much when I get real thin. If old Petey has like a vision board on his phone, it's not a good month for homesy. Like, something's.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I made a vision board. This was, I don't know, four or five years ago. And every. Every single thing on it didn't happen.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, same.

[Pete Holmes]

So, like, we need to have an understanding of manifesting that allows for when it doesn't happen. So that's why I like everything you get, you did manifest. But not everything you manifest.

[Sabrina Zohar]

You get me a year ago would have said, hey, we worked for this. We. We moved to la, we did all the things that you said you wanted to do. You're on these amazing podcasts. You're getting, getting to meet Some good people. Present company included.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm sorry. Am I Nicole Byer? You are salty. Banned salty. I'm your dad right now because you were never my guest.

[Sabrina Zohar]

No wonder I'm here. No wonder I see. I tell you, Trauma follows me. Or I follow Trauma.

[Pete Holmes]

You're a wonderful guest. Keep going. I hate this riff. I hate. I disown this rift. Now we wait for the rift to crawl back.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I was in. Now I get to. Now I have to come in to kiss your ring.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Oh, my God.

[Sabrina Zohar]

But nonetheless, I think I truly believe, like the version I am last year would been looking at me being like, hey, well, we worked for this. So what the is your problem? Why aren't you happy? And because it's always a moving target when you're manifesting. What we have to look at is it's not about what am I trying to achieve. It's also, how can I be really happy with what I have right now? Because if I'm. My mama has always, always said, you were good before them, you'll be good after. And they're in addition to your life. It's not instead of. And if I'm always putting this benchmark of a relationship or a career or somebody and I'm not staying in the moment to be excited about where I'm at, then what the is that going to bring me?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right. Just another pit stop to want something that's up the road.

[Sabrina Zohar]

There's more zeros to my problems. It's like, it's not actually. But if I can actually be in the now of like, I. What I've always said is I want.

[Pete Holmes]

To be able to just panic with better ice cream. Sorry.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I want to. No, that's anxiety for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's just dread with bottle service. Sorry. Keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I'll take it.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't forget. Don't you.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, I do. Honestly. Because my brain is already like, where are we going?

[Pete Holmes]

I know. You'd be like, if Batman was driving you to the Batcave, he wouldn't have to blindfold you. He'd just have to be like, tell me about what's wrong with fast food. And then he'd drive right under Wayne Manor. And you'd be like, what?

[Sabrina Zohar]

How'd we get here?

[Pete Holmes]

I say that as someone who also could be assuaged with light conversation.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah. Because all of a sudden it's like something shiny because my brain can't handle more.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's a. We have just a minute left here. This made up thing that I'VE made up. We're running out of time because Last Call with Carson Daly is on after us. What?

[Sabrina Zohar]

You've already cut me off, like, so many ways of the.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry.

[Sabrina Zohar]

The camera's done.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, I know.

[Sabrina Zohar]

So this right. Ended like two hours ago.

[Pete Holmes]

Just put me in a Vitamix. We're gonna end with how we started because I'm selfish. But, like, when you have parents that aren't available for what you're needing, what do you do? Like, how do you thread the needle of. This I'm okay with. And this is. This is too much of an ask.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Risk right now as, like an adult, when you've had dealt with that, I think it's really about just looking at what is their bandwidth to be able to satisfy that need.

[Pete Holmes]

Your needs.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And if that's a very low bandwidth, manage your expectations. And then when it comes to, like, let's say your dad is like, you don't visit enough. What do you say?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Usually my response isn't, when's the last time you did. I just put it back.

[Pete Holmes]

But what if he's like, I'm. I can come next week. And you don't want him to.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Oh, typically I'd be like, I'm traveling then. But let's. Let's get a date in the books. I'd love to see you. But I. Or what I'll say is, I'll call my sister in a full panic and be like, all right, motherfucker wants to come. How are we gonna do this? How many days at your house? How many days of mine? I look at, what can I actually handle? Because for a while, I didn't have my dad in my life. I didn't talk to him for years on end. And when I met Ryan, I hadn't spoken to him. And it took me a minute to get the courage to say, if I want you in my life, that's because I'm choosing to have you in my life, not because you're forcing your way in.

[Pete Holmes]

And did that change things for you?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, it's a certain extent. We talk every few months, like, we barely speak. And when we do, it's. It's a nice reminder of why we don't speak more.

[Pete Holmes]

And how long are you taken out of the game of your life? Exercise, good mood, productivity. After you talk to your dad, how much does that throw you off nowadays?

[Sabrina Zohar]

Not as much as it used to. It used to be days.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I was hoping.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah, you would say it used to be days. And now when I hang up. I'll just be like, and this is a reminder as to why I have boundaries with you.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I. I'm gonna. This is a big breakthrough for me in therapy with Internet internal family systems that I wasn't leading us to. But it just. I can't wait to share it with you and see what you have is. I had to talk to all of my protectors and all my parts and all my littles and all that stuff. And we kept saying, like. I was like, we'll just accept them. We'll just accept them. We'll just accept them. And they didn't believe me. They were like, you know, And I knew that they were right. They were like, you know, there's a combination of behaviors, words, whatever it might be, be that will upset you. And the breakthrough of all breakthroughs, it was huge. Was. That's true. And I'll handle it. And just telling the whole team, all the kids, all the. There's a bear. There's all these different guys. I go, I'm not saying it won't upset me. I'm not saying there won't be times where I'm just in a waterfall of sadness and anger, but please, you're seven years old. Go to the Fun Spot Arcade in Vermont. You go play there. I can be angry and sad. Look at all my resources. But the switch was from saying, I won't be angry and sad to going like, no, I will be. It was like we drew the blinds in this majestic hall, and suddenly they trusted me to be in charge. I was like, I will hate certain things when they happen, and it will take me out of commission maybe for a day or whatever, but let. Let me do it. We don't all have to get every broken little scared kid. Also. Totally. I'm 46 years old and I'm resourced. I'll be upset. I'll. Let me do it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And to think you didn't have to show your license.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's a. It is a real idea. I have a contact at the dmv.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I will say I had to do the same.

[Pete Holmes]

A flex.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And I go in California after sit, like three hours of waiting for a sticker. It's a flex.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a hard flex.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I did something similar the other day where I told my littles. I was like, I have an alarm system. And I was like, you worry about what's in the house. You worry about what you're feeling, how you're feeling, what's coming up for you. And I was like, but the external world, I've got a really beautiful alarm system that is triggered anything around, if anything happens, I'll know. You don't need to tell me. I got your back.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Zohar]

And it takes time because there's gonna be people that are like, what the fuck are you talking about? But it takes time for your little. Your little doesn't trust you. So it's gonna take time because that's self trust right there. When you're like, I know. I got this. That to me, when I overthink and all that, at the end of the day, will I be okay? No matter what. Then I'm good.

[Pete Holmes]

Love it. Here's a dad joke. Did you like being the spokesperson for Micro Machines? You're too young. I think I am, yeah. If you're laughing, get a colonoscopy. I saved it. I saved it with a hot riff.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I appreciate that.

[Pete Holmes]

How old are you? 38, 39. Nice. But you started to say, which makes me think you're a Dirty John. You're like. You're a con man and a hard liar. Jk, I would never do that. Look at this guy.

[Sabrina Zohar]

He's almost. Almost 40.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a Josh Brolin type.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Real man.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not this guy. This guy looks for that guy when there's trouble.

[Sabrina Zohar]

That's why you guys are together.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why I wear mine. You know how good it feels? Just go. If shit goes down, just get behind my man.

[Sabrina Zohar]

How do you think I feel?

[Pete Holmes]

You know how you feel? You can get in my back pocket. I'm very big. And I'll get behind him and we'll all be safe.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

He'll be long dead by the time.

[Sabrina Zohar]

They get to me. I am so good. I got two of you.

[Pete Holmes]

He's dead. I'm maimed. You're gone.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You were hidden in my pocket.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

The perfect gene use promo code. Weird. Well, thank you very much. There's nothing else we have to do.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Just.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to say, keep it crispy. That's how we end keep it crispy. And you did it. What if it was like some weird incel thing? Like. And then your podcast we've said is a million times, but you say it, you plug it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

It's called the Sabrina Zohar show, not anything else. And it's on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, all those things. And if you want to see me talk to a camera for 35 minutes, come on in. You think this is fast? Just wait until I'm talking to myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. Wow. Four hours of podcasting in 15 minutes. That's the Sabrina guarantee. What do you mean, 30? What talk on what camera?

[Sabrina Zohar]

I talk to myself. I do solos. Riffin. Just straight riffing. So I'm like, imagine me with my brain. That's why I need notes. Because all of a sudden, I'm like, how did I start talking about World War iii? And the next thing, I'm like, ooh, that's just shiny. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. There's only been two. Well, thanks for doing it.

[Sabrina Zohar]

We're about to hit it. Thanks, guys.

[Pete Holmes]

We're done.

[Sabrina Zohar]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You can. You can keep going.

[Sabrina Zohar]

I don't get it. Goodbye. I was like. So, anyways.