Sabrina Zohar

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Episode Featuring Sabrina Zohar

Release Date: July 9, 2025

In this insightful episode of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes," host Pete Holmes sits down with Sabrina Zohar, the dynamic host of the "Sabrina Zohar Show." Sabrina, a renowned relationship expert, entrepreneur, and media personality, delves deep into her personal journey, professional expertise, and the intricate dynamics of human relationships. The conversation is rich with authentic discussions, emotional intelligence, and practical advice, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the complexities of love, boundaries, and personal growth.

Personal Struggles and Emotional Regulation

The episode kicks off with Sabrina candidly discussing her experiences with ADHD and how it shapes her interactions and emotional responses. At [02:03], Sabrina admits, "I'm a dick more often than I'm not." This self-awareness sets the stage for a deeper exploration of emotional regulation. She explains how her ADHD contributes to hyper-focus and heightened sensitivity, especially in high-stress situations.

Pete relates by sharing his own ADHD experiences, emphasizing the unique ways their brains process information and emotions. He remarks at [02:49], "That's what it is," underscoring the mutual understanding and empathy between the hosts.

Therapy and Inner Child Work: Internal Family Systems (IFS)

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy and the concept of the "inner child." Sabrina recounts her transformative experience with IFS, particularly through ketamine treatments. At [46:55], she shares, "I've been doing ketamine treatments...It was the first time I saw my little." This pivotal moment allowed her to confront her childhood wounds and begin the healing process.

Pete elaborates on the importance of connecting with one's inner child, stating at [37:30], "What's happening is, we are going to repeat the parts of us that are unhealed until we face it." This introspective work is portrayed as essential for breaking free from ingrained patterns and fostering healthier relationships.

Dealing with Narcissistic Parents

Sabrina opens up about her tumultuous relationship with her father, describing him as "a very damaged individual, very narcissistic." At [09:15], she shares, "He says, 'I disown you.' And he'll hang up, saying, 'Don't ever call me again.'" This harsh dynamic has profoundly impacted her approach to boundaries and self-worth.

Together, they discuss strategies for dealing with narcissistic parents, emphasizing the necessity of setting firm boundaries. Sabrina advises, "Here we are. Look at. We're supported," highlighting the importance of creating a safe space amidst emotional turmoil.

Dating and Relationship Strategies

Transitioning to the realm of dating, Sabrina offers valuable insights into modern relationship challenges, particularly those amplified by dating apps. She emphasizes the need for "being a better buyer," which involves knowing what you want and managing expectations. At [66:05], she advises, "Know what you want. And also be able to discern."

Sabrina shares personal anecdotes, including her experience with changing her podcast's name after receiving a cease and desist, illustrating the complexities of maintaining personal authenticity in professional endeavors. She underscores the importance of self-awareness and proactive communication in fostering meaningful connections.

Setting Boundaries and Communication with Partners

A recurring theme in the conversation is the significance of setting boundaries within romantic relationships to ensure mutual respect and emotional safety. Sabrina discusses her methods for maintaining healthy boundaries with her boyfriend, Pete, describing their approach to conflict resolution and emotional expression.

At [69:30], Sabrina explains, "I need to share something with you." This proactive stance on communication helps prevent resentment and promotes a deeper understanding between partners. Pete echoes this sentiment, noting how such practices have strengthened their relationship over time.

Manifesting and Self-Improvement

The duo delves into the concept of manifesting, debunking the idea of it being purely "woo-woo" and reframing it as clarity of intention and actionable steps. Sabrina emphasizes, "If I get really clear on what I want and I actually believe that I could do it... there's nothing that stops me." This pragmatic approach to manifesting aligns with their broader discussions on personal accountability and proactive growth.

They also touch upon the pitfalls of parasocial relationships—where listeners might idolize public figures without truly understanding them—and the importance of distinguishing between genuine connection and mere admiration.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Sabrina and Pete synthesizing their discussions on emotional regulation, boundary-setting, and authentic relationship-building. They reinforce the idea that understanding and implementing these concepts is an ongoing journey that requires patience, self-compassion, and continuous effort.

Sabrina leaves listeners with a powerful takeaway: "I am 100% responsible for what's happening. I can't control other people, but I am responsible for my choices, my decisions, my reactions, my responses." This empowering message encapsulates the essence of the conversation, encouraging listeners to take charge of their emotional well-being and relationships.

Overall, this episode of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes" featuring Sabrina Zohar offers a profound exploration of the human psyche, relationships, and personal growth. Through their candid dialogue, listeners gain valuable insights and practical tools to navigate their own emotional landscapes and foster healthier, more fulfilling connections.

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm a dick more often than I'm not." — Sabrina Zohar ([02:03])

• "No one was gonna come save me." — Sabrina Zohar ([46:44])

• "What's happening is, we are going to repeat the parts of us that are unhealed until we face it." — Pete Holmes ([37:30])

• "Know what you want. And also be able to discern." — Sabrina Zohar ([66:05])

• "I am 100% responsible for what's happening. I can't control other people, but I am responsible for my choices, my decisions, my reactions, my responses." — Sabrina Zohar ([72:34])

This episode weaves together personal anecdotes, professional expertise, and therapeutic insights, offering listeners a comprehensive guide to understanding and improving their relationships and emotional health.

Transcript

[A]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Sabrina Zohar, who is the host of the aptly named Sabrina Zohar Show. She's a relationship expert, she's an entrepreneur, she's a media personality, and like I said, a relationship coach. So I thought it would be deeply interesting to sit down and talk with her. And I was right. I'm very happy to say she is brilliant, thoughtful, interesting, emotionally intelligent and has a lot of great stuff to offer. So I'm so glad. Stuff. You know what I mean? Insight. That's a better word than stuff. She had a lot of great insight to offer and a lot of laughs as well. So we had a lot of fun and I'm so glad you're here. Not much to say. Up top. Come see me on the road. Go to PeteHomes.com I'm going to be in Houston this weekend. We are going to be in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. That's me and Nick Kroll and Kumail and Anthony Jelnick. That's on July 19, followed by Los Angeles, Washington, D.C. boston on August 23. Hope to see you there. Boston, New Hampshire, Spokane, Washington, St. Louis, Cleveland, Florida, Chicago, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All of those are available on PeteHomes.com and in the meantime, enjoy this chat with the wonderful Sabrina Zohar. I'm so glad you're here. Get into it. You're welcome to have one. That's for you. It's actually part of the con.

[A]

Go to the set.

[B]

You do love it.

[A]

I do, actually.

[B]

Glad my.

[A]

Genuinely. I used to drink those every morning and I was. Because I don't drink coffee.

[B]

You don't seem like you need it, right? That's not a burn. That's. I was listening to your podcast. I kind of feel like a jerk that I said Emily will interrupt the show. Do you know that? It's what we're starting. Is that okay?

[A]

I'm a dick more often than I'm not.

[B]

I'm. I'm getting a little bit dickier as I get older. And I'm like, maybe that's it. Or maybe that's just an excuse. I'm showing. I'm being myself more. And like I was telling as I was walking, the minute her publicist is coming, but she's not here. And that. That bugs me because now she's going to, like, come in and there's. But it's not actually an inability to have compassion for someone who's running late. It's more of like a almost spectrumy hyper focus where I'm like, no, you're here. Me and Sabrina, we're gonna start, and now there's gonna be these people walking in and there's just gonna. Who cares, though?

[A]

No, I get it. My brain. You have to. I have adhd. My brain works.

[B]

That's what it is.

[A]

It's just. It's a different way of seeing things of, like, this might. To the normal person, to the average person, I think.

[B]

Big deal.

[A]

Right?

[B]

They're like, normal, but neurotypicals.

[A]

Right. They're like when you have a little bit of a spicy brain. And I actually have to explain that to people of, like, yes, I work differently than you. Like, it's not. We're not all the same lived experience.

[B]

I really appreciate that. Thanks for that. I think it might be a little bit. I'm quick to claim autism, but it might just be adhd. Even though I got tested for that. Who cares? So glad you're here.

[A]

Likewise.

[B]

Thanks for being here.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

We were listening to your podcast just a moment ago, and Katie said, is that sped up?

[A]

And I hear it all the time. And then people meet and they're like, so it's not.

[B]

Well, I didn't. I did turn it off and go, I'm gonna get this live.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because you were giving. I listen. I think I picked a good episode of the Sabrina Zohar podcast.

[A]

Sabrina Zohar show Show semantics, if you will.

[B]

I bet if you type in podcast, it'll show up.

[A]

In hindsight, that would have made more sense, but here we are.

[B]

It's still a show.

[A]

It's a show.

[B]

You show up.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And you're doing it.

[A]

It was called something else, and I got forced to change the name.

[B]

I know when you Google your name, as I do, duh. For a little Reese, it says, why did Sabrina Zohar change the name of her show? That's like, the first thing. I actually think the first thing is husband.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But I don't even know if you're married. Is that your husband?

[A]

Boyfriend?

[B]

That's your boyfriend?

[A]

Yeah, he works with me, who I just bossed around. Yeah. That's okay. He takes it. He's. He's with me, so he deals with enough of someone bossing him.

[B]

I'm a little dead, but he was on. He should be sitting right there enjoying the glow of his. Of his beloved. But long you been together?

[A]

Two and a Half years.

[B]

That's beloved status. Long enough you can get some kind of, like, heavy language in there.

[A]

I was say, I'm okay with the heavy language on that one. It's more when people are like, your husband, like, don't go that far.

[B]

Yeah. Although isn't it kind of fun when you're dating somebody and somebody says, sometimes it's like an unhoused person. I'm not trying to be funny. And they go like, you and your beautiful wife. Like somebody. And I'll be like, I don't know. It was trump. You and your beautiful wife. I don't know why that. But like, I. I used to like it when someone me marriage material. Like, I would take it like that.

[A]

And when people are like, you're your wife. And I see Ryan chuckle, and I'm like, not yet. So there's a part of me that gives them. That's a whole nother story. But yes, he's very used to me talking fast, bossing him around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not bossing him around, but, like, being very vocal about what do I like and need. So we're here for it. I love it. You're setting boundaries. I'm here for it.

[B]

I'm saying, what did it? Which boundary did I set?

[A]

No, I want you to go and deal with that, because I would like to get started. And it's like, you know what, Breen?

[B]

Cheers. Because Val, my wife, is very non confrontational, and I sort of am the confrontational one of the relationship. And like, we're always trying to get the mix just right of where is. Where do you say you'll wait for Emily? And whenever I do it, the reason I brought Val up is she'll be like, really? It's not like a Prince Charming moment. But she's like, oh, I couldn't have done that. One of the main features in our relationship and I just did this because I'm always doing it, is, we'll decide. We have to go. We have to go. We have somewhere we need to be. But she's saying goodbye to everybody. And I'll come up and I go, this is over. But I do it with the hand. And then we start walking away. And Val's like, oh. And I just go, I'll just do the hand again. It's like playful jerk energy. Pj.

[A]

Just leave it at bj. And then that's it. Yeah, perfect.

[B]

Bj. Bj, you said pj.

[A]

Oh, whoops. No, it shows you Remind brain. I'm like, bj, right? Yeah, that's. We were Talking? We weren't talking about that.

[B]

It's a comedy podcast. I think you upgraded it to bj.

[A]

I. I took the assignment. I'm going to make it weird.

[B]

So tell me you will. Tell me you haven't yet. Tell me why you. It was called do the Work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm assuming that's been copywritten. Is that the problem?

[A]

It was trademarked. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Do the Work. Which is so funny. Cuz it's like, it's like, get out there, right?

[A]

It's like, oh, oh, okay, breathe.

[B]

You're like, be yourself. Have fun. Be yourself is what standups all say to each other as a joke. Cuz that's what everybody says.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're like, be yourself or have fun. It's like, okay, I'm not going to.

[A]

Do either of those, but cool.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, that easier said than done. But. So who sued you or who cease and assisted you?

[A]

It was some dude in Arizona. And because everybody thought, thought it was this one creator that has quite a bit called do the Work. And I'm like, no, she and I are cool. Like that was never it. She actually was like, kudos when I named it that. And for me, like, I don't know, I started this thing and I bought this phallic looking mic on Amazon and it was very pretty and I, I literally took a selfie of me on the counter being like. I kept telling friends like, what should I call this show? And they're like, I don't know. I kept being like, why aren't we doing the work? They're called that do the work. And I was like, okay, do the work. And I just thought, who. Same to you. Who. Who could have trademarked this? And I have a clothing company called Software and I was always told, you can't trademark usable. Okay. So I let it go. Year and a half later, I'm literally sitting down to record. And at this point, the show is doing so well that even I was shocked. I like didn't, I didn't expect this.

[B]

Yeah, fun.

[A]

Yeah. Limiting beliefs were tested at that point.

[B]

Oh good.

[A]

And I got, I literally had this email and as I'm putting my phone down, Ryan's like, put your phone down, babe, it's time to record. And I'm like, one more second. And I just see and just like, cease and desist. Do the work. And I was like, I couldn't comprehend what that meant.

[B]

Stop doing the work. Yeah, you're doing too.

[A]

And I was doing too much work. Tell my therapist that And I literally. I put my phone down and it just. That was the beginning of the, like, the worst three weeks of my life.

[B]

Oh, really? It got nasty.

[A]

God, it got nasty because they didn't even want to have a conversation. They were like, two weeks. We're going to be. You don't change your name. We're going to take time, take down requests. We're going to come after for revenue and all this. And I'm like, I'm a new business owner. I don't know, talking to the lawyers. I'm doing all this stuff. Had to change it.

[B]

Do you watch? Have you. I don't want to say it's a boy movie, but I will say more boys than girls. That I know. I think it's John Wick. I'm kidding. It's the Social Network. Have you seen the Social Network?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

From the day he gets a cease and desist and he just throws it away. And I. I'm not saying that's what you should have done, but I admire. I'm a real rule, believe it or not, as much as I'll tell your beautiful beloved to go wait for Emily and make a little kind of joke about how inconvenienced I am, that's. That's one way I'm comfortable being a petty bitch. But if somebody gives me a cease and desist, I just go, like, we must stop.

[A]

I wanted to end him. And I was like, that's not legal.

[B]

So you mean murder them?

[A]

Yeah, I was close. Why?

[B]

Because they were so rude about it.

[A]

It was. Yeah, I mean, granted, he had his lawyer and it was just this arrogance. Like, if you go on his website, he's like, we go after the trademark. And you're like, yo, relax, man. Like, you do it for yourself. But you just sound like you're salty. You sound like you're salty and you're upset that I am doing something that has nothing to do. He's in real estate and fitness. Nothing to do.

[B]

And it's called do the work. Real estate fitness.

[A]

Just do the work. That's it. So shout out to his business right now. And so I literally.

[B]

Because how can we find out more about his business? How can we do it? I was gonna say we sign up.

[A]

How can we? How can we do the work? So it was.

[B]

There they are.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

I have a fresh apology. It's already out. It's okay. We didn't. Wait. Emily, can you close that door? Jesus, Louisa, we not race in a podcast studio. I'm just kidding. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[A]

We have animals.

[B]

So excited. I thought maybe you work. You do work together. But on a scale of 1 to 10, how appropriate was it for me to say, will you go out? Wait for Emily? It was a 10.

[A]

I told him. I was like, boundaries. It was boundaries.

[B]

That's a good man.

[A]

Here we are. Look at. We're supported.

[B]

Welcome. You're welcome.

[A]

It's a great safe space.

[B]

Yeah, it's a safe space. You're welcome to Avita cocoa. Is it Vita Coco?

[A]

Vita Coco.

[B]

I should know.

[A]

Anyway, we love you.

[B]

We love you, Vita. Yeah, There you go.

[A]

Product placement.

[B]

Okay, so this is the derailment that I was anticipating, but what were you just saying? It's on you.

[A]

Oh, fuck. So now my.

[B]

Oh, you. You couldn't call it do the work because of a real estate fitness company.

[A]

So essentially you had to change the name. And in that moment, it's like a breakup. It's like a shitty breakup that you didn't expect coming.

[B]

Did you think, remember when Nathan Fielder did Dumb Starbucks? It was actually right around the corner in this neighborhood. So he, like. It was a parody law. If you call it Dumb Starbucks, you could have called it, like, dumb do the work or do the work, dummy. Or, like, do the work for exclamation points. Like, at what point? I'm not a lawyer. Why are we even talking about this?

[A]

I tried. I tried.

[B]

Did you consider something like that?

[A]

Everything. I. I trademar. I spent about $15,000 trademarking random names because I was, like, throwing pasta and, like, will they do doing the work with Sabrina Zohar? Will they do do the work with six exclamation points? Literally everything you did, exclamation points. We tried everything.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And everything came back rejected.

[B]

I'm just kidding. Really?

[A]

Reject everything. Too close, too close, too close.

[B]

Who did you send it to? This guy, the lawyer. This is absurd.

[A]

It's.

[B]

I'm mad about this. I don't know what you did, but I feel like there's some guy who, like, wears a gun on his belt, and he's a lawyer. Who could have done it?

[A]

Who? He. Well, he would have been a little more elbow grease, and I probably would have paid, but I would have been fine with that. I just don't know him. Yeah, the lawyer. I had to buy the books, right? He did everything legal, which is, like, for the birds. But he. He tried. He was going back and forth, conversations to call. They were just literally, like, said, if it's not done by this date, we're going to send it to Spotify. Your podcast will be down, and we're like, okay, never mind. It was a lot of bullying. Now hindsight's 20 20. Could there have been a thing? Sure. But I'm 10 months into a new name. I'm not fucking changing it back.

[B]

My eyes are so bad. My hindsight is 10 10. I don't know what's a bad one. I tried to do a Woody Allen.

[A]

Hey, oh, dad joke. I'm here for it, though.

[B]

You know, I'm gonna say, people. People throw out dad jokes a lot. And I'm like, that's fair. But I don't know if that's a dad joke.

[A]

Well, felt like one, but I. Regardless of it, honestly, I think that's.

[B]

That is the marker. So for you, it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not gonna take that away from you.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

But for me, it wasn't. I will tell you a story.

[A]

Please.

[B]

I was in a line for food, and this guy behind me recognized that I was a comedian, and he told me two street jokes, and that's fine, but they were like. One of them was like, about his. His ding dong being Jose and then hose B or something. It's like one of those. Yeah, yeah, exactly. By the way, if someone tells a comedian a joke, it's that or it's racist. And that one is both. A little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, isn't it funny that Jose is a name? Is kind of like, the implication of that joke. Anyway, then I told him my favorite street joke, which is a pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel in his pants. And the bartender says, hey, you got a steering wheel in your pants? And the pirate says, ARR. And it's driving me nuts. Right? And that's funny. And then he said, that's a bit of a dad joke. And I. I'm being real with you. I whited out a little bit. I kept it cool, but in my mind, I was like, you can't tell street jokes to a comedian. Have him return the fucking bullshit.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And then go, that's a dad joke. And what I did say was like, yours were also dad jokes. Like, what is this? So I don't think this is what you were doing.

[A]

No, definitely not.

[B]

But sometimes people do say, dad joke is like, nice try. Oh, no. Again, not what I thought you were doing. But I was like, it's just a joke. If a dad joke is like, do we have any salsa? I'll take a pico de gallo. Like, that's a dad joke.

[A]

Can I give you a good one? You tell me if it's a good dad joke.

[B]

Let's decide. This is welcome to Is it a dad Joke? Which turns out is a real estate company in Florida. So the lawsuit is pending. But go ahead.

[A]

You might get hit with a cease and desist.

[B]

This is the new for Patreon only. I'm just kidding. But is it a dad joke?

[A]

Okay. So there are two. I was told the original joke and I changed it a little bit. So there's two starts to it. I'm going to just choose my favorite.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Okay. What do you call a pile of cats?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

A mountain. Right.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Not bad. Not bad.

[B]

I don't think that's a dad joke.

[A]

It's not?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Well, it's a good thing. I.

[B]

You know why?

[A]

No. Why?

[B]

Because pico de gallo. I'll take a pico de gallo is. I think for it to be a dad joke it has to be something that you could think of while under the stress of parenting at least two children. Valid and meontain. Maybe if you were like, it's a mountain of cats. It's a man. Then he goes a meow Tain.

[A]

Right. I see what you say.

[B]

But he's too sleep deprived to just go. The restraint to go. What do you call a pile? Now we have a synonym. You know, a playful. I don't think so.

[A]

I understand. I appreciate your understanding of the dad joke in the brain that it takes.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I'm here for it.

[B]

Dad jokes are. Dad jokes are like. I think they have to be kind of lazy because you're tired and they have to be ordinary situations. I don't know. I didn't know I had such strong feelings about dad jokes.

[A]

Neither did I. But I'm now really excited to see what comes next on the podcast of how many different areas of opportunity we're going to have for dad jokes.

[B]

Yes. I just don't want. And we'll find it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to say on the record as many times as I can that badumpum is a slur to a comedian. That if we make a joke and you go badum bum, I'll burn your house down.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

Not yours. Because you're lovely. But I'm just saying if I don't know you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And no one's home and you're insured and you say, but I happen to have a can of gasoline in a match. I might. I might burn.

[A]

I know. I appreciate the commitment to that actually. Because.

[B]

Pretty strange situation. But go ahead.

[A]

That's how I feel about when people come to me and they're like, if he wanted to, he would. I'm like, I will bludgeon you to death if you say stupid.

[B]

Like, if he wanted to, he would.

[A]

Yeah, that's in the dating and relationship world.

[B]

This is yours.

[A]

That's my slur.

[B]

Slur might be wrong. But, you know, people know what we're trying to say.

[A]

Button push.

[B]

It's a bad one.

[A]

That's the bad one. Or if they're like, the. The.

[B]

What does that mean? If he wanted to, he would.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Oh, you mean like, if he wanted to do the dishes, he would.

[A]

Like that very. That just flippant statement of like, well, if he wanted to, he would. And it's like, okay, so you don't have critical thinking skills is what you're telling me when we use these, like, bumper sticker slogans. But I get a lot of people that try to oversimplify. Right? Or the. Like, it'll happen when you least expect it. And you're like, off. It's very invalidating. And it's just those. It's the things that people say because they're uncomfortable.

[B]

Let's take each one of those one by one. The first one is if he wanted to, he would. What is this? I said do the dishes. But what is the example that you mean?

[A]

So where people are using it now, like, especially on TikTok University, is it'll be like, that guy didn't text you after the first date. Well, if he wanted to, he would. And you're like, oh, okay. So people use the statement.

[B]

It's like, he's just not that into you, kind of.

[A]

Yes, but the problem with yes, I mean, that's the. The kind of. I think the. The end goal of it. But the problem is, when you use it, you're completely oversimplifying human behavior.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And to say, like, well, he didn't want to. And it's like, I want to be a millionaire. Well, I guess I don't want it bad enough. It's like, nah, man. Because it's not about wanting.

[B]

It's a relationship version of I forgot what I was going to say. And someone says, well, it must have not been very important.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And Steve Martin had the old joke where he goes, oh, yeah, I remember. I'm radioactive. Which is perfect, because why does forgetting mean not important? There's no correlation there. And in fact, there's a lot of presuppositions of if he wanted to, he would. That people know what they want that people behave in accordance with what they want and that that's reliable. You know what I'm saying? Like, people are often doing impressions. Like, I remember when I was. We should get into this. And I didn't want to rush it because I'd rather. I want to talk about your mom and dad. But I remember.

[A]

Oh, don't we all?

[B]

Don't we all. Can we call them? I. I just remember when I was dating briefly, I was single. It doesn't matter. And during that time, I did the most dating I ever did. And you go out on a date and. And people would tell me, don't text them right away. That. That sort of stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if he wanted to, he would. Or I'm getting bad Advice from Joe DeRoza.

[A]

You, Joe DeRosa?

[B]

Oh, no, no, I think that's. You're in good company. I'm kidding. We love you, Joe deroza. No, but Joe was a person that helped me because I was very naive and very, like, you go in real fast and like, maybe you should pump the brakes and maybe just take a day before. But that didn't mean I didn't want to.

[A]

I. There are so many things that I want to do in life that I have limiting beliefs. I have childhood shit. I have all of these different variables that might be stopping me from want. And I think we. What I'm struggling with and whether this be dating relationships or even just fucking in the world right now is like, we're trying to oversimplify really complex aspects of things because it makes us uncomfortable to have to go any deeper. And so if I can just slap on right. I mean, we just saw. Let Them right. Became like the anthem of the goddamn year. But, like, nobody, I think, really understands what does that mean? And when we stop to take a minute and like, that's just me. I like to get deep. I like to understand things. I like to really understand human behavior because I think there's so much more than just like, like, you said, I had a great date. Well, oh, he didn't want to call me. It's like, well, maybe that person, like, had a flight first thing in the morning. Like, we don't know.

[B]

Why are you interpreting it in a way that is, like, hurtful to you?

[A]

Yeah, that's when we see it through the lens of my core beliefs and what my lived experience is. And this is how I. That what I see is if that's the. If I'm going to go from. This person didn't text me to. If they wanted to they would. That means they don't like me. That's black and white thinking. And then when that shows me is like, that's your insecurity. You're projecting that onto them again. That's not throwing shade. Because I used to do that. I was the epitome of a hot mess. Oh, you don't even want to know, Pete. You don't even want to know. In my heyday, I text a guy 173 times because he didn't want to go and see me again after, like, a fourth or fifth date.

[B]

You. In a row? Yeah, 173 times. Like, oh, that's kept the police involved.

[A]

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Showed up his house with a gift, and luckily he was lovely. I bought him baking pans.

[B]

Baking pans.

[A]

He was a baker and he had. In New York. It was where I lived in the city. And he had. He had like a mini. I know.

[B]

Can't buy someone baking pans.

[A]

He had told me he text them 173 times. I know. I did it.

[B]

How many bakers, dozen texts is that? That's so many. Don't do it.

[A]

Don't do it.

[B]

Don't waste your brain on it.

[A]

For anybody that's listening. I wouldn't advise this.

[B]

No, no, I understand. You're helping us, but I was.

[A]

I was her.

[B]

But he was nice about it.

[A]

Nice enough. We ended up hanging out years after, he, like, acted as if that didn't happen. And I was like, are you okay? Because I don't know why you ever want to see me again.

[B]

That's bizarre.

[A]

Very bizarre.

[B]

But romantically, he went back.

[A]

Yeah. Wanted to hang out. Like a month. Like, a few months later, it was just like, hey, you. And I was like, did you see the thread? Right.

[B]

Just a little scroll. Maybe. Maybe every once in a while your phone will, like, reboot and in the favor of the psycho. You're the psycho.

[A]

In this case, the hot to crazy ratio was like, we were on the cusp. Right?

[B]

Like, I was looking good, not too crazy.

[A]

But, you know, I was pushing the boundaries.

[B]

Yeah. But, yes, you're 173 text hot.

[A]

I was. I was 173 text hot.

[B]

And you're not 175.

[A]

No, no, no. I was just pushing. One more and we're done.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But you have to be Scarlett Johansson. She could do 200. Probably.

[A]

Probably. I feel like she could push even the 250.

[B]

And has Joe ever been ghosted?

[A]

Who is she dating now? That would be the question. She with Somebody.

[B]

Is she with somebody? Oh, congest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, so she doesn't need to worry about it.

[B]

She goes to him all the time. Probably just to keep it spicy.

[A]

Healthy.

[B]

Yeah, healthy. She'll send a gif of the Avengers. Like her in the Avengers or someone. Not her in the Avengers. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Make just a little role play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, scarjo.

[B]

No, you don't role play with ScarJo. You go, I'm with Scarlett Johansson. Like that's.

[A]

I need to pretend.

[B]

Everyone else's role play, I suppose, is that dehumanizing to her? I just.

[A]

I'm sorry if it is, but I'm sure she's lovely.

[B]

Yeah. I'd do it to Brad Pitt. I'm just saying. These are the babes. Heavy lies the crown on the head of the babes.

[A]

I was gonna say. And you could kind of do anything you want when you're those bab. If they text me 173 times, I'd be like, just another Saturday. But me doing it wasn't cute. It wasn't a good look. And needless to say, I was so goddamn anxious. It was so in my head, like I would just do.

[B]

What was the issue?

[A]

Daddy issues?

[B]

Well, yeah. Your dad owned a porn theater. Yeah, Research.

[A]

Heyo.

[B]

And was he gay or. He owned a gay club.

[A]

He owned a gay club.

[B]

So he isn't that weird that I'm like, well, he must be gay. I'm like, what am I, the 80s? Oh, he's gay.

[A]

I was gonna say I was like, you just. Okay, it's fine.

[B]

Trying to corral all his options into club. The irony or he just loved Cash.

[A]

He did. That was it.

[B]

Loved Cash. Not man Ash.

[A]

No, but close. Same. Same, but different.

[B]

He loved a little man Ash.

[A]

Probably. Who knows?

[B]

He dabbled.

[A]

I don't think he dabbled.

[B]

Mustache.

[A]

He.

[B]

He had a mustache.

[A]

He did. Oh, he had the like 70s porn star mustache. He had so much chest hair that like his gold chains would stick it. Right.

[B]

Well, I have news for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your dad was gay.

[A]

This is how I find out.

[B]

This is how you find out.

[A]

EEN is 6.

[B]

Sometimes you need someone from the outside, like Sling Blade.

[A]

I. I wish you could meet him. If you saw even my father is the.

[B]

By the way. Oh, he's still. He's still with us.

[A]

Yeah. Thank God.

[B]

Is he the kind that would be mad that I made that joke?

[A]

He would probably look and just. He would just do the like but. Or he would laugh. But he is the type. Like he is the fuck boys. I'VE avoided all of my life. Like, he dates 25 year olds that are. Yeah. Maybe now in his. He's moved on to women in their 30s, which is really lovely to see because at least there's a prefrontal cortex that's developed.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

But he loves. He. He goes from woman to woman. His exact words to me were, why would I take a woman to dinner when I can get what I want after a drink? And I was like, oh, you dad.

[B]

Said that to you?

[A]

To me, When I was like, why? Like, how many women do you go out with, like, in a week? And he was. I was like, you take him to dinner. He's like, who needs to take him to dinner? I'll get what I want after a drink. And I was like, oh, so, okay.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, that's. He's a very damaged individual, very narcissistic, very, like, gets his validation by getting women.

[B]

And he hasn't figured out that that isn't, like, a long standing solution.

[A]

I mean, he's in. He's almost 70, so I guess it's worked for him up to this point. And now he's in the, like, I don't need women. I'll just be by myself. And I'm like, yeah, that's the progression when you don't want to do any work on yourself.

[B]

That was a national holiday for women. Right. When your dad was like, maybe I'm done.

[A]

Just delete the app.

[B]

Why would I buy myself dinner when I can get what I want after a drink?

[A]

It was the sigh of relief. Just collective.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's a national holiday.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. That's crazy. I know so little about your dad, but I feel. I know so much.

[A]

I was gonna say, you don't need to know too much, but why did.

[B]

He tell you that? That is kind of like he doesn't.

[A]

Even realize half the thing. If you ask him now, he'd go, I didn't say that. It's like, oh, of course you didn't.

[B]

Yeah. I have some overlap with my family here.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

In which ways?

[B]

Well, when therapists are like, you should speak your truth, or. Or try to have some connection or like, people find it beneficial before they're gone to, like, try and have them hear you. And I'm like, that's not happening. And what you're saying is for people like, I love my family. I'm just saying, like, not everybody's that way. Meaning if you do bring something up, it'll be deflected.

[A]

We have to look at what's the secondary gain? Right. It was something I learned recently about secondary gains that I was really excited to learn about. And it's like, okay, so you have your primary gain, of course, of like, oh, your father, he doesn't want to talk about it. It's like, what's the secondary gain? What's really under the hood? Oh, if he acknowledges either of our family members, if they acknowledge the pain that was caused, then what comes with that? That comes with acknowledging I hurt you. I have to take accountability of. Oh, no, no, no. Now we're just getting off the rails.

[B]

I. I never knew that. Yeah, I, I've heard that. And I do want to put my family to one side. So I can just speak more bluntly. I don't want to bore everybody with all of my. My therapist called them pop up ads where I'll be like, you know, my parents did the best they could or what? Let's just put them to one side. And I'll say that people with narcissistic personality disorder, it's been taught to me that if they apologize, it's like death to them. Because if you admit that, the whole thing falls down. Is that what you've also heard, having somebody.

[A]

Because narcissists, it's like, not the fucking. Again, not the tick tock version of like, he's a narcissist. And you're like, no, he just didn't call you. Okay. Like, that's not what. That's not narcissist. What actually is. Like, there's grandiosity, right? So like an example, I'll tell my dad something simple of like, oh, wow, blueberries are $7 here. Like. And he'll be, I bought them for three. And you're like, okay, enjoy, enjoy. I didn't just this. Always one upping you.

[B]

He's putting on sneakers to beat you to the car.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

What the.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like that insecurity within them. Same with the no vulnerability. Like, they don't believe in being vulnerable. They don't believe in taking accountability. They don't have empathy for other people. When you start to see that, you're like, oh, so what are the choices? Right? Like your therapist is saying, like, put them to one side. It's like, either I can accept these people for who they are and have them in my life in this capacity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or I can put up boundaries and say, no, thank you. What do narcissists hate? Boundaries. Because if you say no to them, they take that as the ultimate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just. How dare you?

[B]

Right, right, right. I've noticed that that's been my work this month is like, I feel like there wasn't a ton of relationship, and there was just a lot of, like, if you show up as my loving child, I'll know that I'm. That I'm worthy of a loving child. Or, like, people see that. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, I'll just tell you what I'm thinking. It is vulnerable. But, like, my dad will be like. He'll text me, like, I feel like you haven't called in a while.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I'm like, honestly, I'm being real. There is fake compassion, but there's real compassion. I. There's both. I'll have both. Fake and real. It's like, I do feel kind of bad for everybody where I'm just like, man, we don't have, like, you know, I. I miss talking to you. I love talking to you. Like, you know, I have my friends and stuff, but there's just something about talking to my son that. It's just so special. And we could even just be together. That would just be. That would fill me up if we could just be together. But it's just like, you haven't called in a while. It's a beckoning for, like, a performance. And that's what I realized. So much of.

[A]

It's like, they're kiss the ring.

[B]

A kiss the ring, keep the status quo kind of thing going on. And what I've really wanted and what gets harder as you get older, is they want a regressed version of you to show up.

[A]

Yeah. Well, think about, too. It's like that also, what are they doing? Because my dad does the same stuff of like, I haven't heard from you in a while. And I remember I told Ryan, my partner, I said, I have to. I need to call my dad. And he just looks at me and he goes. But he's like, do you need to? And he's like. Or does the phone work two ways? And he was like, in the last six months, who's called who? And I looked, and I'm like, the motherfucker's never called me once. Because. What? It's the victim.

[B]

No, it's. That's. Oh, God, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna jump off a fucking cliff. I'm just kidding.

[A]

It's okay. I hold your hand, let you do it. I'm with you on it.

[B]

When you have Louisa.

[A]

Yeah. Have narcissistic parents, it's like, oh, you see it, you're like, oh, my God. You get it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And keep going. I mean, like, I. I love what you're saying. It is like, God, it's so sad, actually. But, like, when I see people who have families that, like, everybody calls each other, but they're calling each other to, like, know about your life and be in your life and, like, share your life and, like, all of that stuff, like, can you relate to this? Like, sometimes I feel conflicted, like I want to send them a picture or something, but then I know it'll just be of leverage. Like, why don't you come more? I should see this in real life or whatever. And you're like, you just start building these very sad boundaries where you're, like, doing a lot of surrendering of what you had always hoped for and just going like, but this is what it is. My therapist told Me, this is Dr. Gay Penn. This is a couple therapists ago. But he was like, and I've said this to my mom. I'm like, we're as close as we are. Such a crazy thing to have to say. It's like, I wish you would come more. And it's like, well, we're as close as we are.

[A]

Yeah. Because without. I'm the same. My father asked me to go on a trip and I had to make up. And I was like, no, no, we can't, because I can't. My nervous system cannot handle the triggers and feeling like I'm six years old again every time I'm with him. Because when no one. Nothing changes. If nothing changes. And so what happens, right? What are the choices? You can go to see your parents, and you're like, I'm the one that has to make the concession. I'm the one that has to change my behavior. I'm the one that has to watch myself. You're not doing. You're not facilitating.

[B]

It's exhausting.

[A]

Exhausting. Because you're constantly on. Talk about survival. You're constantly on edge, hyper vigilant.

[B]

Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Tushy Tushy Bidets. The best bidets in the biz, and you got to get one. I don't know why it's 2025 and we're all just wiping our butts with paper. It's disgusting. You gotta up your butt game. Up your butt game. If your manhood feels like a Florida panhandle. The Florida panhandle. This time of year. Great news. You can instantly refresh yourself 15, 20, 35 times a day without jumping in the shower. We're talking about a tushy bidet which transforms swamp butt into a dewy nice clean cloud. It's perfect. I got a tushy bidet years ago and there is no going back. It is a different level of clean. If you had poop on your hand, would you just wipe it off with a tissue? No. You would power wash it like leaves off your driveway. And that's exactly what a tushy bidet does. It's gentle but it's powerful. It's warm, the seat beautiful. I love everything about it. Tushy is the everyday luxury bidet that instantly transform your bathroom habits and your bottom health for life. It is is easy to install, there is no need for additional plumbing and you can get one and support this show. How good is that? Keep your swampiest body parts fresh and cool for a limited time. Our listeners get 10 off their first bidet when you use code WEIRD at checkout. That's 10 off your first [e-mail] with promo code weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at dad Grass. I recently tossed all of my weed that that's true. Why? Because it was too damn strong. I was tired of smoking and being lost watching a basic movie. I was tired of eating an entire pizza because I was trying to get back down to earth. Thank God there is dad Grass. I am obsessed with the perfect dose that they have dialed in specifically with their leisure drink which is wonderful here in the summertime. Ships legally to all 50 states if you're over 21. These are delicious sparkling cans of yuzu flavored goodness that finally offers a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body your mind with friends. I've been putting them out at parties. People love the way they taste. People love the way you feel. It's 3mg of THC which is the perfect small manageable dose plus 6mg of CBD and 2200mg of Lion's Mane which is just going to balance you out a little bit more. Mild dose, sessionable for a mellow experience. Happy and relaxed with no hangover. Stackable of course for a bigger buzz if you have a higher tolerance. Fast acting which means you're going to feel how you're going to feel in about 10 to 20 minutes. Get leisure drinks and all of dad Grass's products including joints and gummies by going to dadgrass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20 off. Put leisure drinks out at your next get together and thank me later. Dadgrass.com weird. Use promo code weird for 20% off. Back to the show. Well, this goes back to. If he wanted to, he would have. Right. I think you and I, it sounds like we're both familiar with, like, what you actually want is 76 layers down. So you're like. Actually, what I. My concern is what. What can I say that will avoid the most pain and maybe gain the most pleasure or neutrality.

[A]

It's like performative. Right? At that point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I will say this. Like, the one aspect I think when it comes to like the narcissistic par parent or dealing with these types of dynamics, whether your parents an actual narcissist or has the tendencies is also what you're describing as well as like grieving. Because part of doing this, doing the work. Don't trademark me. Part of doing this work, part of showing up differently and like understanding yourself and going back to your littles. Like the little Pete that didn't have the dad that he wanted, didn't have that relationship. You're grieving. And it's also really difficult to look at this person because they're not dead. They're right in front of you. Maybe Right. For some people, they might not be. And you have to one, accept them for who they are. Grieve the version of you that experienced the version of that. The one that you had as a kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then accept them. And there's so many conflicting emotions. And going on to your point, want is all the way at the bottom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I need might be up here. And so what you're doing and by saying like, hey, this is the closest we're gonna be because I need space from you, otherwise I'm not gonna be able to have a relationship. That's your choice.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And something's changing. Because something's changing. But it's up to you. What do you do? I mean, like, as we're talking about this, it sounds like maybe you've done parts work.

[A]

Oh, I love parts work.

[B]

Pw.

[A]

Yeah. You're into it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, I love it.

[B]

I feel like every internal family system session, because that's my current therapist, Claudia. I love her to death. And every session of internal family systems therapy is like. I don't want to exaggerate, but I will say it's like 50 regular sessions. I would say it's 50 times more. That's a lot.

[A]

It's a lot. It's on steroids.

[B]

It's incredibly on steroids. And who knew? I'm gonna put this back to you, but like who knew? What you're saying is I've spent so much time in like a dream. Like it's not hypnosis but you're going in and you're talking to this nine year old version of you in your childhood bedroom. And what really shocks me about it is when they ask you questions like what is he doing? Or can he hear you when you say that? Or does he have any questions for you? When you practice it a little bit, you get really good at hearing your unconscious and it is talking to you. Meaning it's not. Make them ups. I told my therapist I was like, I'm not doing any makeup. Like if someone hypnotizes me and say we're going to find your past lives, I'm not going to pretend that I was Julius Caesar. Like, I'm just not going to do it. And in the same way here I'm like, like very rigorous about. No, I'm not nervous that you're watching me do this. I'm only going to tell you what this kid says 100 and he. And he says stuff and it's consistent and it's. And it's real. And it turns out that that child. You think you need therapy. It's like that child actually needs witnessing.

[A]

And the child more than like one thing that changed it for me when I first saw my little. That's like when we, you know, you know what I mean when I say that when I first saw her and she looked at me and she's like, you a baby abandoned me. And I didn't realize for years. I'm like, I've been leaving her. Right? We think about every time think about the way we speak to ourselves. I'm so stupid. You're telling that to your little. You're reaffirming to your little. I don't trust you. You're. There's something wrong with you. And when we start to connect to them, like even right before, right before I walked in my, my coach doing the like, is it your exiled part or is it your manager part? Like who's trying to protect you right now?

[B]

You did therapy on the way here.

[A]

Through via voice note. Like we were just catching up in between sessions. Because I have my own limiting beliefs. I have my own fears.

[B]

Hey, by text I have all the wrong questions. So you just long voice memos.

[A]

And she's also like one of my best friends.

[B]

So we conflict of interest.

[A]

Thank God she's not licensed as a therapist.

[B]

I love that I have a million wrong questions. I like to think I'm a pretty good interviewer, but I'm just taking you off of the meat of what you were saying.

[A]

Also, we can eat the fat. I'm here for it.

[B]

Tell me. Tell me what you were saying. You said the protector. What was she coaching through on the way in?

[A]

So, essentially, and I'll give it more. Something that people can understand. I don't want to go super deep into the complex world, like, you lost me. But, for instance, like, I've woken up. Like, we think about triggers, right? A trigger is a neutral action or inaction. People misconstrue triggers all the time. Of, like, I've been watching Mormon Wives, the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, the show, and every other second, it's like, well, that was really triggering. And it's like, no, that guy came and screamed in your face. That's disrespect. That's not a trigger. Anybody would say off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was.

[B]

That's aggression.

[A]

It's aggression. Right?

[B]

Trigger is. Is neutral, actually. What your dad. What you said, your dad. A tisk is a very good.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That can be very triggering.

[A]

My partner said, no. Literally, my partner went. I said, babe, do you want to do something? And he just went, no. And, like, walked off. To anybody else, I'd be like, okay, you don't want to do something. I lost it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I started hyperventilating. I started sweating, and it wasn't until I stopped, and I was like, whoa, whoa. Okay. How old do I feel? And I had to ask myself. I'm like, how old do you feel right now? And I was like, I feel like I'm seven. I'm like, who am I talking to? Dad? And I was like, okay, so this isn't him. I went back into my lizard brain. My prefrontal cortex is off. And so when I named it, and I was like, I feel really sad right now. Okay. What am I sad about? I felt dismissed. Okay, well, was there fat? You start to understand.

[B]

And that dismissal is if you're like me. And I bet you are. I'm gonna wager that dismissal is really unsafe to you. It's like, I'm in intense danger. To me, it's. And I want your response to this. I don't want to just talk about this. It's like, not being considered is really, really dangerous to. To me. So if somebody's, like, playing really loud music or something, I Actually, you know, it's actually gotten better through ifs. But, like, I will be like, this person is inconsiderate. And if they're inconsiderate, if they don't care that I'm trying to read or take a nap or whatever, then they probably don't care if I'm alive.

[A]

Yeah. You know, wow. Okay. Yeah, we go there and that's fine.

[B]

Coming over and they're probably gonna kill me like a Mad Max Mohawk guy. That's like, like, that's who is playing this music really loudly. I can't. And I. I sort of do. And don't envy people that just go like, wow, someone's having a party. And they just keep making guacamole. I'm like, no, we need to freeze in the corner and assess with every ounce of effort. Who is this? When will it be done? And what does it say about me?

[A]

And I was gonna say, I would all but guarantee that, like, okay, so lack of consideration when we walked in and you're like, what? You're here? And it's like, I get that. I understand that your little is looking at this and it's like, what's his narrative? What's his story?

[B]

Oh, my God. And I love control. I love. Sabrina's coming. We're gonna sit down, we're gonna talk. And I'm pretty proud of myself that I'm rolling with Ryan.

[A]

You roll?

[B]

Is that one of your boy names?

[A]

What? What in which way?

[B]

That you like?

[A]

I'm not gonna say the boy name that I like, but Ryan was not on the list. No, I'll say Brandon. That was like my name. That was my name. I did like eight Brandons in a row.

[B]

How? I won't ask how old you are. Did you watch 90210?

[A]

It was Brandon Lee from the Crow.

[B]

Oh, good one.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that was what started it. Then it went to Brandon Boyd from Incubus and I was like, oh, hubba hubba. Then it went to Brandon Flower. Oh, my God.

[B]

From Incubus.

[A]

I was so obsessed with Brandon Boyd, it was pathetic. I had a lifestyle. I'm not kidding.

[B]

How many times did you text him?

[A]

How many times I go see him? It'd be more of the concerning part. I went to see Incubus like seven times. I had like, everything was Incubus in my brain room. Every life size posters of him in my room.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You were incubated.

[A]

I was. You were dumb. Me? I was.

[B]

See, that's not a dad joke. A professional comedian no, that was good.

[A]

That was on it, right? Dad joke would have been something.

[B]

Dad joke would have been like, incub, I'm going to take the incubus to the concert. Like that's a dad joke.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I like that we're figuring this out.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Why? I can't picture him. So I, I, I can't really.

[A]

Brandon Boyd?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's just, he had the cut lines. He and around Tyler Durden time that was, was so yummy. I swear I was, I was so boy crazy because I was just so talk about, like, severely.

[B]

Well, were you looking for a new healthy. Well, maybe not right away, but, like, definitely not. I am looking for the energies that I didn't get when I was a kid.

[A]

I was looking for someone to come save me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was easier to fantasize. That's why even now, like, loop it back to even some of the work that I do. When people ask why questions, questions like, why don't they like me? Why aren't they into me? Why? Why? And one of my best friends, she's a neuropsychotherapist and she's brilliant, and she taught me. When you want to understand why, why, why what you're actually doing is your brain is trying to intellectualize because it's avoiding feeling the pain, it's avoiding feeling the sadness, it's avoiding feeling just mourn it. So if we. So for me, it was easier to project and fantasize about these men that were going to come save me, and you're going to treat me really well, and you're going to do all these things than it was for me at 13 to go and say, my parents are terrible. I have a really shitty childhood. My life isn't safe. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know when someone's gonna come get me. And I'm scared I'm not gonna be okay. I didn't have the cognitive ability.

[B]

Wow. This is making me think. Remember in Boogie Nights, he's kind of in a nut. Well, he is in an unhappy house and his room is filled with posters. And isn't that just, like, correct?

[A]

It's escapism.

[B]

It's escapism. And I definitely had that. I, I've actually, I'd have that with, like, Green Day. Like, I'd think about, like, like, where are they right now? But like, a weird kind of. When I say idolatry, that I don't mean that it was wrong. I just mean, like, I really wanted to, like, know them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, be on their tour bus. If I could get out of here, that would be great. Yeah. And they were kind of like, helping you through that time. It's interesting to consider how much of, like, Incubus's audience, for example, is just absolute nut jobs like you, 100% that are looking up the wrong tree.

[A]

100.

[B]

And they're looking for a dad, and they found Incubus Brandon Boyd.

[A]

And you're like, oh, because you find romantic. I drive. You're like, I miss you. I was like, you miss me? Like, you saying it to me, it's like, you.

[B]

I had that, too. You're helping me realize. And then when my wife left me, obviously, my first wife, I was 28, and I got obsessed with Radiohead. And I'm not saying I did. I wasn't, like, imbalanced, you know, like, this is vulnerable. I just mean. I don't mean. Don't laugh. I just mean, like, I want you to know that I know that this is weird, but, like, I felt like Tom York was helping me. Like, he became an avatar for, like, I'm a sad guy, and it all worked out for me.

[A]

I hate to say. And here as I'm saying, I'm like, that's me to the anxious people. They're like. They see me as, like, I'm the avatar, or like, you used to be me, but now you're not anymore. And it's like, yeah. Because there are a lot of people that will help us through our days. I. There are so many people where, like, I'll listen to songs, and I'm like, I'm just grateful. Thank you for being here for me right now. Now.

[B]

Well, I don't think it's bad because.

[A]

Well, you didn't go and look to us for his house. You didn't send him 173 texts.

[B]

That's true. I. I cut it off at 111 because if I don't. I was going to do an OCD joke. It doesn't matter. What I was going to say is, like, when I listen to. I listen to Revision. Revisionist History, and I catch myself having a parasocial relationship with Malcolm Gladwell. I think that's actually what this is, is when you. When you have a podcast and as you have a podcast, it's called do the Work. And I have this podcast, which has never been sued.

[A]

For anyone listening. They're like, it's called do the Work. I'm like, no, it's not.

[B]

I swear it's not. It's Called the Sabrina Zohar Show.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Not podcast. But I was just saying, like, there's something nice about taking a break in someone else's brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why, if you like their brain. Like, I like how this is a tangent, but, like, I like how curious Malcolm Gladwell is and how excited he is about everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like Frosted Flakes. Go through seven kinds of cooking, and I'm just like, wow, Imagine having that much interest in anything.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's really what I'm listening to. It's not even the content. I'm just like, jesus, I wish I felt that way about anything.

[A]

Truly, though, if I could feel a morsel of excitement that you do.

[B]

But that rubs off on me. I catch myself going, like, it ignites something in me. And I think that's. Who cares? People are listening to a podcast about why they might be listening to a podcast. Here's what I'd like to know. Yeah, you were, you know, harassing Brandon from Incubus, I'm assuming, and being, you know, just a little bit broken. And understandably because your dad had a derringer strapped to his ankle. Undoubtedly probably had a thick carpet he was always losing Quaaludes in. But what from there to here, you know, here you are. I'm sure you get this all the time, but, I mean, like, now you clearly have all this stuff. What were the steps that you took to clean up your relationship game? And what did you realize? 173 Text lady to this lady from that.

[A]

That no one was gonna come save me. That, like, I really. That the more I run, the longer I'm gonna change. It was just like this perpetual. I was getting exhausted. I was. I was having panic attacks. Like, nothing was quelling this because I was in endless, constant need and, like, pit of. I need, I need, I need. But nothing was being satisfied for myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where it really started was, like, I started doing ketamine treatments. And after a shitty breakup. I love them so much. It changed my life. It was the first time I saw my little.

[B]

Are we the same person? Like, it's like, should we date, Ryan?

[A]

Like, I like it. Sorry. This was fun. But we. I, like, I started doing ketamine and I started realizing, like, that I wasn't showing up for myself. So I was expecting all these other people to. I'm expecting these men to choose me. I'm expecting these people. Like, I had this childlike, really understanding that love was. You're gonna change for me. Like, I'm Gonna age myself now. Crybaby. You remember Crybaby?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Johnny Depp. God, that was like, talk about.

[B]

I stand by everything Johnny's ever done.

[A]

God, that movie, that movie.

[B]

I see it actually.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I think I would have been a pretty cool guy if I saw that cover and was like, I'm gonna get this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that made my wet.

[A]

Didn'T it? I'm feeling like so seen.

[B]

It was really a sexy face he's making on the COVID He was just so.

[A]

He was the bad boy. He was the bad boy. He was the, the, the bad boy back in the day that, like, what was the bad boy? He rode a motorcycle, but like, he was a greaser.

[B]

And one shoe's untied, one boot's untied, one boot's untied. Yeah.

[A]

And you know, he was the. He went to jail and it's like, what did you see? What was the narrative taught was like, because he met the right girl, he was going to change who he was to keep her in his life. So I believed, okay, you're emotionally unavailable and super avoidant and possibly like my father and a narcissist. Great. Challenge accepted. How can I get you to choose me? Because that's called repetition compulsion.

[B]

Oh, my God, I did that.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Not with Val, No. And not really with my first wife. But I did eventually start dating people that I'm like, oh, this is like my mom. And it felt greater than the sum of its parts to be in their gaze.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like if you could get that. And my mom, by the way, I actually kind of had the over loving mom. So I'm not saying I was neglected by my mom, but it was like really fun to try and lure a familiar beast into the cage.

[A]

We are patterns, like our brain. Our brains love familiarity. They love patterns. Our brain does not want to do any more work. It's trying to keep you safe. So when we turn our prefrontal cortex, we get dysregulated, we get triggered, and you go back into the amygdala that stopped growing at 6. What's going to happen? You're going to.

[B]

Your dad comes in. My amygdala stopped growing at 12. My amygdala is still growing, actually.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sorry. And that type of mentality, like when we think about if I. When I say, how old do I feel like. I feel like I'm a kid right now. I feel like a child right now. It's like. Or do I feel that in my body that.

[B]

That Woman that I dated but who by the way, I wish nothing but the best for this person. But like there were times when. And I didn't have the language for this but she'd be mad. She would get mad at me a lot and I would shrink. That was the language I used. And I'm a. I'm 6 foot 6 and I, you know, I'm not as broad shouldered as Ryan. Get the out of here. Get the. Just so I can be a big man.

[A]

Get out of here. Sorry.

[B]

You won. Okay. I'm just saying I'm. I'm a tall guy at least. And I would not strapping. But I would think that she was going to hit me with one arm and fling me across the road. And it was a real.

[A]

You feel it?

[B]

I felt that that was possible. And if you had seen my body, you would have seen a person that was prepping for a catapulting when in reality, if this person tried to pick me up, she wouldn't have been able to do it.

[A]

No, but your brain.

[B]

Is that a fat joke?

[A]

Joke was I. I didn't take it.

[B]

When you really agreed with me that I said she couldn't pick me up.

[A]

And you were like, no, it was the six. Six.

[B]

It's a fat joke.

[A]

Okay. What a trick.

[B]

I'm the host and I made you feel so uncomfortable.

[A]

It's fine. No, it's good.

[B]

No, you did great. I just wanted. I love. Is that a fat joke? I'm so sorry.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

But yeah, the little. The little.

[A]

Your little is looking at me being like you.

[B]

But yeah. No, don't get me started on my strategies now.

[A]

No, no home. Because you learn them. But that's right. We have maladaptive, maladaptive coping mechanisms. So growing up, if you're. What kept you safe was I'm gonna play small. Right. So like if that's what for me personally in our home because I had me. I had my sister who's older than my brother's the oldest. And all of us have adhd, but it comes out differently. So I had to compete against wackadoos in my house. And then my father and then my mom who just wasn't there. And like mentally sounds great. It was such God, talk about a rager. And you wonder why this is it.

[B]

But when you're doing great, the fact that you aren't on fire right now.

[A]

Trust me, the amount of times that I'm like, you're doing great, sweetie. Just remember that.

[B]

Yeah, I do get comfort. We should all Be doing worse. Even someone who's doing real bad. I'm like, yeah, there's other places.

[A]

There's other places. Yeah, exactly. You're a lot. Literally.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But when we think about just the way that our maladaptive coping mechanisms. So for me, I learned at a very young age, setting boundaries meant you're gonna get hit. My dad's gonna leave. Like, he would just leave for weeks. Like, you did not know when he was going to come back, who he was going to be with. Like, that was a very inconsistent. Now again, not everyone has that childhood. Some people might be looking at me like, I didn't have that. That's cool. What did you learn? Who taught you that? And that's what I have to remember is like, okay, so if I play small, where did I learn that from? Well, growing up, that if my father came and did something, then I had to scream to get someone's attention. That's why I act out. That's why my knee jerk reaction is to start yelling. But if I take the pause and say, well, what are my choices? Is okay, well, I don't need to be. I don't. You're not my father. I don't need to be heard by you in that way, but I can respond and not react. But when we are conditioned, when we get triggered and we don't understand that, when you can't turn that part of your brain on that didn't, by the way, stop growing until you're 28. So it's not fair. Our amygdala stops growing at 6, but the rest of us doesn't grow until we're 28. And we wonder why we're such morons in our, like, adult life, if we don't actually start to understand all of these connections and synapses that start to come together, then you're not actually going to make a change. Because that was what we were talking about earlier is like, how did I become who I am? Them not just by self awareness. Self awareness without action. What's that?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I had to implement, not intellectualize. And the more I learned about things, the worse I got. It wasn't until I started to say, I need to understand me and not just the concepts.

[B]

I think I'm hearing you. I. My therapist recently said, like, it often gets worse before it gets better because you're like, learning these things. And then my relationship sometimes with my parents gets more stilted and I'm like, what is this? Nothing's. Like, is that kind of what you meant? What did you mean? You said a lot.

[A]

I do that often. I am sorry.

[B]

Put this on half speed. I'm just kidding. I actually, no, I like fast talking. I really do.

[A]

That's for me. I'm like, otherwise I lose interest.

[B]

But no, I'm with it.

[A]

Moral of the story being is like, it's. Yes, it will get worse until it gets better. And the reason being is because for however many years that you are right now, for me, it was 28 years that I hadn't been doing this work. That's 28 years of conditioning, of core beliefs, of patterns, of things that are ingrained. So it's going to take time. But you know what doesn't help? Just listening to every podcast, reading every book. It's like, yeah, I want you to understand it. But what are you implementing?

[B]

Right. And what are you experiencing? Right? I mean, like bringing it into the body, into like felt experience.

[A]

The somatic.

[B]

Yeah, somatic and that. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for psychedelics which don't really care if you understand it.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The reason I loved the psychedelics is because they took everything away and allowed me to be a spectator museum. I was able to go back and see everything I needed to see without being in that situation, without feeling what my 6 year old is going through. Because that is why we avoid the work. We don't avoid doing this work for anything. Besides, we don't want to feel those feelings again. Who does? It sucked back then. I don't want to deal with that now. But now the one thing I did my ifs parts work that changed everything was when I was going to see my little. And I kept going back. And then finally once I asked her, do you know who I am? And she was like, I think so. And I was saying, I'm you. And she was like, no, you're not.

[B]

Not.

[A]

And I had to show her my license. And I was like, I am you dumb little. No, I love you. I didn't say that to her. I was like.

[B]

But she goes, it's not a real idea.

[A]

And I was trying.

[B]

Back of the line, fake.

[A]

He's like, that's your sister. By the way, this is Jamie. Thank you. Which I used for years, but really being able, because what happens is like our littles think they need to protect us. Our littles are trying to keep us safe. That's that maladaptive coping mechanism. But instead of playing small when you can say, right, you know what, I don't need to play small, I can actually take Up. Space, space. Because I'm going to keep you safe. That's when they're like, oh, okay. You go ahead and do it because you are the adult, not them anymore.

[B]

Yeah. And that. That is a very felt thing. It's very emotional. I'm not a great crier, but I think I cry almost every time I do ifs. And it's beautiful. Not that that's a marker that it's like special or working, but, like, it's a marker for me that I'm feeling these feelings. And it's really powerful to just get your little. To see you as a grown up. It's like, really do a slideshow.

[A]

I've literally done that with my clients. I'm like, okay, white screen projector on it. Because my olive clients, they're like, my little doesn't believe I could do it. And I'm like, okay, show them your house. Show them your career. Show them your wife or your boyfriend or your friends. Show them all of these things. Because oftentimes our littles are like, I did that. And it's like, no, we did. Yeah, I did that. In. Not in spite of you, but with you.

[B]

Say it's in spite of you. That's how you feel.

[A]

My poor little sab. She's sitting there.

[B]

You did. You were playing with play. D'oh. Eating some of it. Nothing.

[A]

I was that girl.

[B]

Oh, Barbie.

[A]

Yeah. I almost wore my Backstreet Boy shirt today to commemorate, but bsb, bsb, they're coming, you know, into Vegas.

[B]

I really couldn't care less.

[A]

Oh, perfect. I feel.

[B]

I don't mean that to. I just want you to know my truth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That if you gave me a free front row ticket, I would burn it in front of you.

[A]

There's a lot of burning happening. This is LA after all. So, Pete, I'm a little concerned.

[B]

A lot of fire.

[A]

A lot of fire talk.

[B]

Yeah, no, I. I don't know why that is. Well done. I don't like that. I don't like that. You're like, oh, yeah, I know Jiu Jitsu as well. I don't like that. Stay away from me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So what else? Tell me about the boundaries you have love with your father. Well, I also want to hear about the ketamine experience. The first time you did it, you're. Were you visualizing these things, seeing it?

[A]

The first time I did it, ketamine.

[B]

Is very void to me.

[A]

It is. So the one thing that changed it for me, when I went to do ketamine, it was 2019 so it was after a really terrible breakup and I kept saying, I don't know why I feel stuck. I was like, where am I stuck? And the woman that I did it with was like, hey, make sure you have an intention. And so that was my intention. Where am I stuck? Where am I stuck? I want to see where I'm stuck. And then it just, I was like, I'm going to like let it take me. And I know what you mean. I've had some treatments where I'm in this void and I'm like woohoo. Just kind of floating and seeing black. But when I get very clear of like I'm here for a reason, even if it's 10 minutes. And it brought me back to my childhood room. And that was the first time I met her. It was first time I did inner child, was the first time I even heard of an inner child. And I remember just walking up and being like. That's when she looked at me and was like, you abandoned me. And it hit me at that moment of like oh my God. I by self abandoning for anybody. That's like, I don't know what that means. You abandon yourself when you don't validate your emotions when you say it and I'm being stupid or you're being crazy. You abandon yourself when you say yes instead of no. No. You abandon yourself when you do things that don't align with who you are. That's self abandonment.

[B]

You mean yes to something. You should say no.

[A]

Did I say the opposite?

[B]

He said yes instead of no. But I'm like really depends on the question.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Yeah, but something you know is a no. But you say yes.

[A]

Yeah. Like can you help me do this? And instead of being like no, I'm so sorry, I can't today. You do it and then you get you over exert and then you're upset and then you're resentful, then you're angry and then your day is off. When at the beginning, if you had just said no. There's a therapist I love and he always says is it hurtful or harmful? Am I hurting your feelings? I can afford to do that. Or am I harming you?

[B]

You.

[A]

So we have to be. That's what I mean. So when I started to understand all of these things, that's when I started realizing my father, to this day, my dad and I, he has disowned me six or seven times. Yeah, yeah. Literally. He'll be outside.

[B]

For the record, he says it, I disown you.

[A]

He says it. He's like, you. You're not my daughter anymore. Get. I don't even. You're not mine. And he'll hang up and he's like, don't ever call me again. And you're like, okay. And he wants you to come running back. And then when you don't, it's. Then he'll change the story of what.

[B]

Happened, that you didn't.

[A]

That I'm the one who started screaming and yelling. And you're like, I didn't say anything. And then even people will be like, does that make sense to you?

[B]

I've seen some of these types go through divorce and they'll like, very. It's very much like, I don't just mean Trump's White House. I mean, like, it's like an administration. Like, they have a press meeting and they're like, this is the story, actually. And I'm like, that's why PR is so familiar. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like PR people when they. Oh, no, certainly not what a publicist does. I mean, like a real crisis person that goes, this is what they're saying. This is how we can shift it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

It's almost gaslighting.

[B]

It is gaslighting.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And I, you know, when all those things were happening, I mean, at the beginning of Me too, and stuff, it was. It was so helpful to get things out. And like, I think. Because what makes it so hurtful is when we know something's happened and nobody's talking like. Like a horrible Thanksgiving.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, that's like, there's the trauma and then there's the gaslighting. There's the. The denying.

[A]

Yes. The deflection. There's all the different variables.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But nonetheless, like, that to me, is what really, like, for. It changed everything. It was like I really started to change things when I started saying, actually that really hurt my feelings and not. That's it. Not doing anything about it, but allowing. How many times if someone says something hurtful to you and then we. We completely say, like, you're just being dramatic, like, you're just being really sensitive. We talk ourselves out of saying, I didn't like that.

[B]

And your feelings are valid.

[A]

Feelings are valid. They're not facts. Off. They're not facts.

[B]

Yeah, they're not facts, but they are your experience. So you. Right. It sounds like you have to find that middle way of acknowledging them. You can do it too much, I suppose.

[A]

The feelings aren't facts. They are valid. But what. Also, we need to look at is the story. What I love to say the story I've created is. And so like, like same thing what we were talking about. If he wanted to, he wouldn't. All that. If let's say, okay, guy I'm texting. A guy I'm dating didn't text me for a day. Instead of just going to. Which was Ryan. Instead of just going to him and like attacking him. He hates texting. Oh, he.

[B]

I also hate texting.

[A]

Do you.

[B]

A dear friend sent me a voice memo and I said out loud, don't send me voice memos.

[A]

That's literally the rule in our house. The first time I ever.

[B]

Who the do you think I am that I am. Have 3 minutes to listen to your day.

[A]

Yeah. Your Bibble babble mad about it. He literally the first time I sent him a voice note, I get a text. By the way, I'm not listening to this, nor will I ever. Don't you ever send. And I was like, okay, you hate. You are. Wow.

[B]

The fact that they transcribe them now, it's great.

[A]

It helps.

[B]

And you read it. It's just nonsense. You're like, oh, this person just wants to know their birthdays tomorrow.

[A]

Well, I just saved four minutes on that.

[B]

I hope you die. That's what I hope. I don't like it. I feel like I like them not to bring gender into it, but women like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And men would rather die in a fire, obviously. Stay honest with myself here.

[A]

I appreciate that. There's a lot of burning.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead though. You were saying?

[A]

Great question. I don't remember.

[B]

I don't remember it.

[A]

This is what happened. That's my brain. I get on a different track.

[B]

Well, I think we'll get back to it because what I'm going to say here is. Here, we'll cut. We'll be back after these messages. Part of being a dad is losing stuff. And I recently misplaced my Apollo, my Apollo Neuro, which I'm wearing right here on my wrist. I lost it because Leela found it and she hid it somewhere. I finally found it in a toy box. But what's important about that is I notice every once, like once a month for a couple days, I get to see what life is like without my Apollo Neuro. And I'm telling you the difference is huge and noticeable because an Apollo Neuro sends these almost sub perceptual vibrations directly into your nervous system, speaking to your nervous system in the language it can understand. We're talking about somatic communication. These gentle Vibrations can help you calm down, they can help you relax, they can help you focus. It's like a wearable hug that sends this signal to your body that you are safe and in control. It's like being held but by something on your wrist. Or you can wear it on your ankle. It's like finding the fuse box box for your emotions, for your feelings. We can wake up with it energy and wake up social and open. Which is usually what I have it set on when I'm doing this podcast. Clear and focused. Rebuild and recover after a workout Calm, which is like the Zen setting. Unwind, which is what I put it on when I'm watching TV at night to settle into into the nighttime and fall asleep. Which is a chemical free way to lull you into gentle sleep and keep you asleep. Because it reruns in the night night without you even needing to wake up to set it up again. Apollo Neuro is not Woo Woo is developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. And Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get one. Support your body, support your nervous system and support the show. Get 40 bucks off at ApolloNeuro.com weird weird. Use promo code weird. That's a P-O-L-L-O-N-E-U-R-O.com weird and use promo code weird. We're also brought to us I'm wearing the hat by our friends at Element here in the summer months you can't mess around with your hydration. And healthy hydration isn't just water. It's water and electrolytes. Back in the 90s that meant drinking basically flat soda that was filled with sugar and calories. Element is different. It's five calories. It's just what you need and nothing that you don't. It is sugar free. It is BS free and is the perfect ratio of sodium, magnesium and potassium to flood every cell with hydration, which makes me feel fantastic in the morning. I drink it before I have any coffee and I feel an incredible boost. Also after any sort of workout or any sort of time in the sun outdoors, I drink one before I go on stage. I find it's really helpful for mental clarity. Keeps away cramps, keeps away fatigue. Hydration is the key element. Has become a huge part of my wellness program. They provide that perfect ratio of sodium, potassium, magnesium for health Performance and energy. And it also tastes fantastic and is wonderful on days if you fast. So use our promo code weird@drink lmnt.com weird and you will get a free sample pack of elements most popular drink mix flavors that citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, which is my favorite, and orange salt. You'll get two sticks of each flavor with any purchase using promo code weird go to drinklmnt.com weird get that free sample pack. Support your hydration. Support the show. All right, back to the episode. And now we're back. Here's what I'm gonna ask. I never do that. That I just noticed. That was exactly an hour. And that's just about right.

[A]

She's like.

[B]

What are the mistakes? So am I right in you help people? What, what do you call yourself? What are you?

[A]

I'm concerned that you help people. Yes, I help people. Dating and relationship dating.

[B]

Relationship coach. Is that okay?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is the mistake? Sorry. But we want it. We want people to get a taste totally of what you do. And I'm curious, what is the mistake you see most often? Like, what is the thing that everyone just seems to be up?

[A]

I think that people, like, if I had to put it in a nutshell of really encompassing all of the behavior that I would say is that people don't understand how to regulate their own goddamn emotions. And I see that because. And the reason I say that is because it manifests in different ways. So I see the number one thing I get people I work with over like 100 people a month. Month and one on ones and coaching. Like, I really try to help people to figure out like what's happening up here.

[B]

Love it. And I also laugh because I feel like I'm interviewing the song. Rap. God. It's a very fast talking rap song.

[A]

Oh, sweet.

[B]

Keep going.

[A]

I was gonna say I need to listen.

[B]

You'll love it.

[A]

I'm gonna love it.

[B]

You'll be like, this guy's talking at a normal pace.

[A]

Yeah. This is whenever I meet friends from New York, I'm like, I get that. I get this.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

We have one more to go.

[B]

So how. Regulating their own emotions. And it manifests in. In different ways.

[A]

Yes. Regulating the reaction to emotions because it's like you're allowed to have your experience. I don't give a go to the bathroom. But what I see is it's that like the number one thing I get in the question box is at the end it'll say, what do I do? And it's this, this giving up of control of like, I have no control. I can't do anything. I don't know what to do. And again, that reminds me of childhood. And so that's where this emotional regulation to the responses come in. Because I'll get off. Like, I had this amazing date, but he didn't call me. And it's like, okay, the hypervigilance is in. You're just regulated. You're looking for a problem. Your core beliefs are coming in. Instead of just being able to regulate and sit in it and say, I don't know this person. I'm not. What are my choices? And that's the biggest thing. Whether you're avoidant, you're anxious, I don't really give a. We need to stop identifying people like Tamagotchis and start seeing them as people with complex human emotions and things. And the more time I spend trying to get to know them, the more time I'm away from myself. And I see that also. Turn it around, turn it around, bring it in. That's why the why questions instead of asking asking, why don't they like me? I want you to reframe to I don't like. Okay, why didn't they call me? I don't like that they didn't call me. What don't I like?

[B]

It's like non violent communication kind of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Do you know that?

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

It's like I'm feeling sad because my need for security or reliability or connection isn't being met. But it's. I'm not saying you should be implementing that in what you do because it's brilliant, but it's taking ownership. I have a problem. And that's what I'm hearing here. Hair. I don't like that he didn't text me.

[A]

I.

[B]

Because I have a need for certainty.

[A]

And then I was gonna say we go further because you're like, okay, why didn't he text me? I don't like that he didn't text me. Why don't you like it? Well, I have a need. Okay, what are the needs? Well, I need to feel like a priority. So that's the issue. You don't feel like a priority.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, what facts do I have to back that up? Well, he didn't text me. That's not a fact. That's the inaction. What facts do I have to back up? They didn't text me means they don't care about me. Yeah, well, I don't have one. Right. Then we start to say, oh, that's true. What are the contrary beliefs? Oh, they don't really like text then when we can do that, that's like the work.

[B]

Do you know the work, Byron? Katie's the work.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's like you, you flip it around. Have I done things like that to people that I care about? How is it not true? How have they demonstrated that they do care about me? But have you heard Velcro, Teflon? Like something negative sticks like Velcro and something positive slides off like Teflon.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

You have to hold it consciously for like 10 seconds. Seconds. So an exercise of like, what are five ways that they have cared about me? And they got me that. Those wonderful baking pans.

[A]

They really think about me when they text me. Very thoughtful.

[B]

But yes. All of this for you. Don't need my validation. But you have it. I think this is fabulous.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Keep going.

[A]

It's essentially just trying to see what are my choices? What do I have control over?

[B]

What am I doing and what am I doing and what am I focusing on?

[A]

Wouldn't the thing when Ryan said no to me, I could have easily been like, what the do you mean? And just knee jerk reaction, gotten bananas on him and done that. And instead what I had to do is I came to him and I said, hey, can I share something with you? Asking for consent to make sure that the person I'm seeing also is ready to have a conversation with me. Because I don't just expect everyone to be ready.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when he said, yeah, and I said, can I share something that by.

[B]

The way, we could stop on that.

[A]

It's very good. We want.

[B]

Are you available for.

[A]

Yeah, you're available for a conversation. Can I share something with you? Are you in a space that you can receive this?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because we've all done that where you taught your friend and you're like, I'm so sorry. I think I just trauma dumped.

[B]

Exactly. I said to Val yesterday, I go, I can't go into my scheduling mind. I have to stay on my creative mind right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she loved it. And then today when we double booked this entire day, she said, this is what I was wanting to talk to you about.

[A]

You're like, so in hindsight I realized that this would have been important.

[B]

Yeah, but tell that to that sweet ass outliner yesterday.

[A]

Pete was not listening. And that control. There it is. But even just like the. So I'll say, can I, can I share something with you? Ask for consent and I will start with I statements I. You did not do anything wrong. I'll be like. I just want to preface. Nothing happened here.

[B]

I'm feeling.

[A]

I'm feeling. I felt really dismissed. You said no. It reminded me of my dad. I got triggered. I shut down. I'm not asking you to change who you are, but what I am saying is moving forward, could you just maybe follow it up with something?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I remember he looked at me and he was like, that makes so much sense. I am so sorry if that happened. He was like. What I meant to say was no. And then he continued, and I was like, thank you. Because what did that just do?

[B]

Like, no. And get the out of my face, dude. Moonwalk away.

[A]

That would have been awkward as. Because we had just moved in together. I'd have been like, yikes. Hindsight. Probably should have vetted him a little bit more.

[B]

My hindsight is 10 20. I can't see both ways. Yes, good. Keep going.

[A]

But that would have. What that would have showed me is, oh, then that's not a person that I can safely open up to.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Not somebody that I could be vulnerable and open with because they didn't create a safe space. They judged me. No, thank you.

[B]

It's not a. It's not a. Not a sad. No. It's a celebratory. Yes to someone else.

[A]

Exactly. Rejections, redirection.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Fail faster.

[A]

Fail. Yes, exactly. And really what that. That taught me was, oh, okay, then what did I do? I didn't ask for my partner to satisfy my needs. I satisfied them myself. I stood up for myself. I had a voice. And I could never do that because I went to my dad and said that, yeah, it would have been led with disconnection. And instead, what I was doing was deepening our connection. And then what does that tell my nervous system? You are safe. This is okay.

[B]

And I can hear you saying to your little. Like, look, I felt this way, and I took care of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's mostly what I tell my little person. I don't say little because it makes me think my wiener.

[A]

Fair. You have that. I don't.

[B]

When I talk to my massive. I. I often. No, I just have to show him examples of, like, you know, like, my parents will say, like, we like to spend Christmas as a family. Family. Because my daughter's 6 and we don't want to be traveling all this stuff. And they're all. Also the more brutally honest ways I could answer that.

[A]

But I was like, trauma is fine.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And. And so they go, come and I Go, no. And I show that to them. I go, look. And it was okay. It was. Everything was okay. And like a slideshow, you do, like, your thing. You show them over and over again. Look, Val, that's my partner, is available, is emotionally available, and is intelligent. Intelligent. And is patient. And. And nobody is yelling here. And nobody is any. All that sort of stuff. Yeah.

[A]

And, like, all the beliefs you have about yourself, like, there you are, good enough. There is nothing wrong with you. And I'm sorry if I never showed that to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's also radical accountability for me. I'm all about, like, not only just acceptance, but radical accountability. It's the same as, like, I'm a business owner, and I've always been taught, like, stop blaming everyone else when it doesn't work. You're the business owner. It starts and stops with you. Obviously, there are things out there out of your control, but on the aggregate, it's on you. And so with me, with life, if I'm looking at my life right Now, I am 100% responsible for what's happening. I can't control other people, but I am responsible for my choices, my decisions, my reactions, my responses. And so if I can take control of that, then I will have much better and healthier relationships and a part of my life that I actually want to live. Because I'm actually saying, well, I chose this.

[B]

I love that. It reminds me of. I'm 46. I just figured out I really, like, like, swimming, and people are, like, fine. I know.

[A]

Better late than never.

[B]

I know people are like, find your exercise. And it turns out it was swimming, and it took me 46 years to figure that out. But it's like when you find the thing that you can control and you can do, instead of going, like, I should hike. Well, I. I think hiking's a snooze, and I. I don't like it or whatever it is.

[A]

Well, if you wanted to, you would.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[A]

You're like, and I'll be alone when we get back.

[B]

I. We cut back, and you're just gone.

[A]

She's gone. And a fire.

[B]

Okay, so I'm gonna throw something at you that I find very interesting. Yeah, well, there's a couple things.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I'm gonna start with this one. Do you know the School of Life? Alain Debton Dubutton, who knows Do Button, Alan Croissanwich. Alain Croissanwich, which. And the School of Life is a. Is a YouTube channel that I enjoy. And he said something that I Really, I. Some of it, by the way, I don't fully endorse. And I would say this to Elaine, who I'm a big fan of his. He. It tends to skew a little. Like, lower your expectations. People suck. Just go inside. Like, it can kind of lean that way.

[A]

Like, I don't know why I left the house.

[B]

There's not a lot of. Of, like. And this is kind of what's nice about it, but there's not a lot of Tony Robbins, like, clap your hands and get out there. Like, he's not like that. He's like, yeah, it's probably a reminder that we all die one day. And then the video's over and you're like, jesus Christ.

[A]

Do I just sit with this? Like, what do I do with this?

[B]

It's not a pick me up channel. It's a Radiohead kind of psychology, but it's also very helpful. I mean it. But he said that when you go on a date and you don't feel the spark, he says, and I agree with this, so I'll defend it.

[A]

It's a good thing.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Good thing.

[B]

Well, I like that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He wasn't evaluating whether it was good or bad. He was saying, what you're actually noticing is that this person wasn't hurt in the way that I was hurt. Like, our traumas don't match because when Val and I went on a date, our first date, we had. We shared religious lowercase trauma. We had a lot of the similar family kind of stuff, dynamics. So we're like, hitting the ball back and forth, and we have. Not only do we have this, like, shared experience, but, like, our. Those wounds have similar protectors. And now our protectors are. And one of them is joking, and we're joking, and we're like, vibing. And then other people I hang out with, and I'm like, I would go on a date, let's say. And I'm like, where is this person? And it's because we're putting out these. These feelers of, like, this is what my wound sort of looks like, and this is how I cope with it. And if they're going like, well, mine is completely different and my coping is completely different. That's the lack of spark.

[A]

The spark, to me, one of my friends always calls it the trauma tingles. When you get the sparkles. It's literally, actually, scientifically, what's happening in your body is you're getting a rush of blood to your phalanges so that you could run because something about Your body is saying, this doesn't feel safe. But what happens is when they're really good looking, you're like, ooh, ooh. This is the spark. I love it.

[B]

Crybaby.

[A]

Oh God. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a stranger story. Very quick story. The last night of the spark outside of my piece of X, which is the. For a different day. But the last time I had the spark, there was this guy and like he was a male Adonis. Like, he showed up and you're like, okay, done. And you know, it's the type of date where like you're there for six hours and people, the waiters are being like, how long you been together?

[B]

And you're like, I think aggressively good looking. People think all conversations are six hours because everyone they talk to is just like, you like ice cream.

[A]

And they're like, you like air. I breathe too.

[B]

And I go to the movies sometimes, like, oh, tell me more so I can watch you talk.

[A]

Everything like it was just that banter and the back and forth and like, he didn't live there. I lived in New York, he lived in la. And it was one of those like, I come all the time. You're like, no, you don't. And I kind of knew he didn't. Yeah, but we were supposed to go on a second date. Like, we didn't. We like made out. We didn't do anything. We were supposed to go on a second date. Heyo. Not to say that's not what I did with my partner, but it worked out. What do you mean we on the first date?

[B]

Nice. This guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Val and I also had sex on our first day.

[A]

Hello, trauma. Anyways, so the long story medium is. So he calls me a couple of days later, we're supposed to go on this date and he's like, I'm so sorry, I have to get back to California. My company got broken into. It's this whole thing to this day, who knows if it's real or not. And I was like, ah, balls. Damn. Okay, whatever. Yeah. So years go by. This is like an eight year thing of like every time you like reconnect. I don't know if you've ever had that. You like, reconnect to you, Chad?

[B]

It's hard to get the riffs in. I was going to say someone stole all his stand up paddle boards. That was my riff because his business was broken into. I'm assuming he's a babe and he's out there sparkling. It doesn't work after the moment.

[A]

No, I appreciate it, though. He was in tech. Does that make it any better?

[B]

He was in tech.

[A]

Yeah. It worked for Facebook, I think, or some shit.

[B]

Perfect Facebook.

[A]

All right. I know at the time. Not meta. So anyways, so he's working. He leaves. And so it's one of those, like, we connected for a little bit. We'd FaceTime and stuff, and it would very quickly fit old and we. But I. He was the one for me, right. He's the one that got away good looking. That I really was, like, hell bent on this guy. And the spark. Couldn't get over the spark. Years later, years, years later, once I started to realize, like. And this is to the point where, like, he was listening to Andrew Tate stuff and I was like, okay, like, that's how you've never. Oh, you never heard of the Tater Tots? Andrew Tate.

[B]

Do we all know who Andrew Tate is?

[A]

The red.

[B]

Shaking her head.

[A]

The red pill. Might as well be. No, he's the, like, the manosphere of, like. Like, he doesn't date women over 25, because women over 25 have.

[B]

Leo. This is Leo DiCaprio.

[A]

Could be. Maybe it's a different.

[B]

Goes by Andrew Tate privacy. At most best Westerns, Andrew Tate was.

[A]

What is he, ufc? He was like something.

[B]

He's a celebrity.

[A]

Anyways, he's something. It's a lot of the, like, women should be seen, not heard. Misogyny. Very kind of like that world. And it's. It's not my world, but I was just like, whatever, this guy's hot. And so anyways, years later, I'm going. I'm at an appointment him. And I'm telling this girl all about this guy. This is up until like a year, two years ago at this point. And I'm telling her all about this guy that had this crazy spark with. And. And it never worked out. And then all of a sudden, I, like, say his name and I just see her stop.

[B]

And I'm like, you know Excelsior?

[A]

What? Yeah. What? Fabio? You know him? And she, like, just breaks down and she's like, that's my ex. He left you for me. He, like, when he left the trip, he came back to me, me. And just listing me how terrible this person is and how he ruined her. And he was a narcissist. That's why it felt so good to me, because he was like my dad. Very familiar. Ooh, let me have it. Charming and lovely.

[B]

Could I get my dad? But smoking.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, total babe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's the. That's the spark is. It's familiarity. It's your nervous system picking up on. You're gonna my day up. And it's like, yeah, I am. And that's why we're chasing it in a familiar way.

[B]

And we're back to our brain that doesn't want to do any new work.

[A]

Nope. Because it loves patterns. And so when I meet. That's why when people are like, I didn't feel the spark, I'm like, good, go out with that person again. Maybe they're healthy for you. Healthy equals boring. Cuz your nervous system is used to this. So when it doesn't have that, it's like, I don't know what this is. This is healthy. This is safe. I don't know. I don't know how to feel comfortable in safety. I know that.

[B]

I understand that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Obviously there's a slight. I have a slight defensive. Because I did feel the spark with Val. But I know, I know you know what I'm saying.

[A]

There's a difference between this, like over.

[B]

You can have a good time. Let me me. Let me say this. And I've told this to Val, the woman who I dated that I think was a replaying of patterns. I was unhealthily, manically obsessed with this person and would stay on the phone for hours and would text constantly and all this sort of stuff. So it was an infatuation. And I love Val. As I'd put. I'd put that on the scales of the gods. Like my golden heart for Valerie. What a weird thing to say. What a psycho. I'd put it on the scales. I'm just thinking about. There was an American Gods episode where in the afterlife they have to weigh their heart. So that's what. I can't believe you saw that.

[A]

I did.

[B]

Wow. I'm glad because if you didn't know what I was talking about, would all just have to own that. I said I'd put my golden heart on the scales of the gods. On the scales of the gods. I put it on. They're freaking me out.

[A]

You're a little too good.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't like. Like it. Oh beautiful Melania, I love you so much. Can you imagine? You can plead me. We can talk or not talk. I love the silence. Sacred silence. Anyway, I am. Was never infatuated with Valerie in that way.

[A]

That Limerance.

[B]

Limerance.

[A]

Limerance is Limerence.

[B]

I once knew a man from Naka. What are we talking about? That's a dad joke.

[A]

That felt like.

[B]

I'll tell you what it Is I. I appreciate. Oh, I didn't mean to. You can't tell.

[A]

No. Limerence is just an infatuation. It's just an obsession with the idea of somebody.

[B]

Limerence sounds like an incubus cover band, by the way.

[A]

It comes full circle, as Trump says that I don't.

[B]

Full circle.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

I love a full circle.

[A]

And scene.

[B]

Make circles. Full again. It's not quite right today, actually. The impression's a little off. Keep going.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's just Limerence is like this obsession. It's a state because what happens is. And like, this is going to go a little deeper. But when we become obsessed with somebody, the idea of somebody. 1. What we're looking at is. Yeah. Like, if I can get. Get you. What does that mean about me? Because, like, if I don't. Right. They're unattainable. They're hot and cold. They're inconsistent. Like my parents. Right. So if that feels familiar to me, if I can get them. Repetition compulsion is one thing that Freud did. Right. Outside of saying that we want to our parents was that repetition compulsion is we are going to repeat the parts of us that are unhealed until we face it. So I'm going to continue to date the piece of the people that remind me of my father until I'm ready to face it. Because if I can get this narcissist to change, it would have made all of that go way. It never does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you're in therapy and then you're.

[B]

Here on this podcast. Yeah.

[A]

Then you're me and you. You're us. It's okay. I made it weird.

[B]

There's your cl.

[A]

I listen to direction.

[B]

What was I going to say? Oh, spark. And then I was. Okay, now I'm going to put this to you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it's really just to see what you. You can respond however you like is what I mean. Val and I, I think. No, I don't think I'm. We have a very successful relationship. We've been together for 12 years. And, you know, it's everything you would think. It's like we love each other more. Every in every metric keeps growing and getting better, and it's safe. And I'm not just gonna brag, but what I am gonna say is someone who's. People say, like, what's your. What's the secret? Right. And I'm gonna. I think there's a chance you might disagree with this, and that's fine. A lot of people are like, well, it's a Choice. I'm not even gonna look at you. They're like, every day I get up and I choose her again. And it just sounds so. It's. It sounds like overnight oats.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like getting through a bowl of overnight oats. It's a choice.

[A]

And the marriage I want.

[B]

We work at it. Or like, you know, you just recommit every. All these efforts, all of this, like, efforting. And I'm. I do count myself as a very, very lucky person. Specific lucky. Priv. Blast. Whatever you want to say specifically in relationship. In this relationship that I'm like, we don't work at it. We do. We do micro workings. It's about these, like, 1 pennies, not $500 at a time. It's like every day there's a little. We're still seducing each other. We're still taking care of our bodies. Or, oh, my God, they're coming for us. They're coming for us. I know it's your dad. He wants to fight me. I'm gay. Am I gay? But he fights like this. This is more evidence.

[A]

He's like sock and bop. A robot.

[B]

That's not a stereotype, though, that gay people fight like this. I'm making a new one. You know how the gays are fighting like this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Go to a gay bar, there's always two guys. I'm just kidding. That riff is questionable. What I'm saying is we're kind of in that camp. And I'd like your take on this of like, we just really felt like an unspoken perfect yes with this person. Not there was like a courting and a settling into it. But, like, what do you take from that? I don't need to give you more.

[A]

What I take from that is the most important.

[B]

I'm sorry, we're out of time.

[A]

End scene. I'll just go myself. And this was fun.

[B]

But you see my strategy. I'm like, please stay with me. So I interrupt with dumb jokes.

[A]

No. But then that you're like, this is how my marriage is so successful. The minute I ask about something, it's. And we're done.

[B]

Honestly, though, she would laugh at that. And that is a little sonar ping for going like, please, please. My. My love language is benefit of the doubt. Like, he's. We're just trying to have fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if somebody could very rightfully be like, stop interrupting me. I'd be like, goodbye. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

I think I mean, what. I heard this.

[B]

I'm putting the mic down.

[A]

It's the micros. The micro, it's the same as, you know, when we have it stacked. If you're going to say, tomorrow, I'm going to lose a thousand pounds, it might be aggressive, £100, but you've never gotten off the couch. Well, I'm not going to expect you to go to the gym then tomorrow and do all of these things. It's like, that's going to be unattainable. And your nervous system is like, I'm good, versus I'm going to do one small thing. I'm going to put my sneakers by the door, and then tomorrow I'll put my socks by the door. Because we're training our nervous system to be okay with that. I'm with you. I think it's also the same as therapy. It's not about what happens in the sessions. It's not these big 500 transactions. It's the moments in between of what we do with it. And I would say. I would argue to say my partner and I the same. Same. We. We don't work on it. We don't.

[B]

My boyfriend.

[A]

Yeah, your boyfriend. I'm. I apologize. Yeah, I need to.

[B]

He winked back.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No, he.

[B]

A little test.

[A]

Oh, no, he's gonna wink back. He. He's. He's into it. He's picking up what you're putting down.

[B]

This is a pass, fail class, my friend. You just passed.

[A]

He's loving every second of it. Because it's the same. We don't. Like, we don't fight. And when I say we don't fight, we don't get into big blowouts. We'll have disagreements. But usually what we do is the one thing that I has saved our relationship is in the moment, we have one thing. What we say to each other. And in that moment, we know, like, yo, put your phone down and eyes to me. And if something happens to avoid resentment, I'd like to share. We know instantly.

[B]

Oh, I love that instantly.

[A]

Because he's.

[B]

You know what Val and I say? We go, will you join me in my initiative?

[A]

Oh, I like that.

[B]

It's like we have to say it as a joke almost. But we go, will you please, like a politician, like, will you please join me? And the. We say the thing. But there is a phrase. You help me uncover that. That's one of the little pennies. We go, like, let's not keep going, though.

[A]

That's a bid for connection. Yes, it's a bid for connection. Because.

[B]

Not to resent.

[A]

Exactly. Because in the moments, like. And Ryan will start. I'm will say to avoid, you know, to avoid resentment, I need to share with you because I'm going to go insane. And I'll overthink. And he'll say, I know I. Like, he does not like to talk about feelings and emotions. And that's just his. And it's like. And we're working on it. And so he'll say, to avoid resentment, I know I need to share this because it's not going to help if I don't. And I know at that point, like.

[B]

Yo, so much more loving to say it then in real time 100.

[A]

Because in the moment, I can go, oh, and then I disarm. Like, he'll even say, hey, I need you to bring it down a notch. Like, you're. You're not really listening to me right now. I hear that. And my nervous system is like, yo, dude, snap out of it, man. We need to be present. And I. Allows me to, like, stop. And I'll scan the room and I'm like, I know where I'm at. Yes, I'm safe. You're okay. And we can have a conversation, because then, even if it's a three hour conversation, we talk about it and then we see what comes. Is it makeup sex? Is it. You know, you leave. Right.

[B]

Whatever it is, you get two things. One, Val and I say, I'm in my pain body right now, which is an Eckhart Tolle thing, which is a way of saying I'm flooded with an overreaction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the other thing that really helps our relationship. You're making me realize there are a lot of strategies. They're just subtle. They're comfortable and subtle and small. And one of them is if I'm. I. I would tell you if it was, but it's not. But if I'm mad about. Like, it's not about Val. But if I'm mad about something and I'm venting, this really is Val's love languages. I'll be going like. And they. This and this. And then I go, I'm just venting. I'm okay. Like, in the middle of it, I'll be like, literally, I'll go. And the. You're safe. Like, like. And she. I mean, she's so into that it gets humid. Just.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Vagina joke. Listen, I'm saying you got it. You just didn't find it funny. Oh, it was clear. Oh, yeah, it was clear. Yeah, yeah. Clammy. Clammy. Yeah, I got clammy in there.

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

The Wings. You're a good winking couple. But like those check ins. I know Valley love language is transparency.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, well, you married the right guy.

[A]

And Ryan will do that. He'll be like, I'm offline. And that's kind of the same as what you're doing. Like, I'm offline is like, when he's saying, like, I'm not processing.

[B]

I'm closed. Yeah, Language too. We go, I'm closed.

[A]

Because the thing is, muffin shop is closed.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's just the big Brooklyn closed. What if I was on a plane.

[A]

Right now, no one could read your mind.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

But I mean.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[A]

No, that's it. It's like, no. How would Val know that? You're like, I'm not seeing this clear unless you tell her. Because then what happens? You go back in your trauma if you're like, I have to be hyper vigilant. I have to assess your facial expression. No. I want to be in a relationship with you. I don't want to parent you.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And it's like, that's the thing of. It's funny because we notice how even as we're talking about it. Yeah. You have tools. You have coping mechanisms. You have things that work that were. Because what would have been the opposite? You, Maybe with your partner, it would have been, I. I shut down. I. I get small now you're learning. That doesn't work anymore. I have new things. It doesn't mean that you're not working towards it. That just means that you're learning new ways, that it becomes more instinctual.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's why it doesn't feel like work.

[B]

Work. Yep. I love that. And I need that. Val and I, last night, we were talking about creative projects, and she's making stuff and I'm making stuff. And sometimes we get like, it gets tight there. It was. It was fun to notice that we were getting tight. This is a dinner last night. And I was like, again, I'm just hitting this ball to you to comment on it, but I was like in real time saying, it's weird. It's funny that we're having this weird conversation like that we're both kind of like, because she's going, my projects are valid. Valid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm going, my projects are valid. And, like, sometimes it's just really helpful to go, like, your project, like, saying exactly what it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you're important, you matter. I'm on your side. I. I And I want to understand. And. And I know, you know me, my. My pain body is always like, my job is fun, so everybody thinks it's easy or something like that or. Or it doesn't matter. Like, basically that. Like, basically just. Just that I thought it was deeper, but it's not. And. And my pain body will be like, I'm sorry that part of my job is staying in hotels and sleeping in. But it is, you know, when you have a kid, too, that becomes, like.

[A]

What you look forward to.

[B]

Yeah. But then, you know, what else we do is, I sorry. I'm all over the place. But I'm like, I'm honest about. I do get to stay in hotels and sleep in. And I like that.

[A]

100.

[B]

That's what I meant.

[A]

Oh, the. It's funny, Ryan. We at least me. Our relationship were such polar opposites. He was in tech nine to five. You come in, you clock in, you clock out. I like organize and structure, rigidity. And then there's me. The. Like, I am like. We say he's the picture frame and I'm the picture. Like, I get to be the everything, and he keeps me in. In. But what. That comes. A lot of it doesn't always jive. And so I'll be super excited about something you don't give a fuck about about it. And finding a balance of knowing that, like, your partner matters if you're actually in a relationship or if you're dating. Start to give a. And get curious. That's the thing is, like, curiosity will solve so many of our problems if we shut our goddamn mouth. And instead of trying to defend and instead of trying to get curious of, like, hey, could you tell me a little bit more about what made you feel that? Because then I can disarm and actually listen to what I'm like. I don't feel heard. Oh, you don't feel heard. Okay. What made you feel well, three times you got your phone out. You're right. That is really disrespectful.

[B]

That is a micro owning it.

[A]

Own it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'll have so much more respect for somebody. The deflection, the defensive, the. That's. That's not emotional maturity. And if you don't have that, your ne. Emotional intelligence is only sexy until you date or isn't sexy until you date someone that doesn't have it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then next thing you know, you're like, all I needed to do is say sorry. And now we're 45 minutes deep into this. And if you had just said, I'm sorry, 45 minutes ago we would have moved on.

[B]

I agree. And here's another one I'm going to hit to you. I'm excited to hear your response. Response. Something that's been really helpful for me and we do almost every day, is I say, I'm sorry, I was just embarrassed. Meaning there's some weird flare up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then if you walk it back two clicks, you just realize that you were embarrassed that you didn't know what Parliament was. You know what I mean? And in that moment you go like, who gives a. And you start doing something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you go like, like for me, getting in touch with that specific emotion. Cuz when you're embarrassed, you're pre. You. You send out the troops to like, I am valid, I am smart, I am good or I'm worthy or whatever. And they overcorrect when really it's just nice to say like, I'm embarrassed. I felt, I felt like I said something stupid and then I was overcorrecting or whatever it was.

[A]

I've done that too. I'm like, I'm sorry, I was scared. Like. Or if I snap, I get frustrated, you know, like sometimes because like I still, I mean, my business is new. I. I'm still navigating the ups and the downs. And one day you're here and it's social media. It's all the variables that are really tough. And then when you have the issues that I have that hit childhood core wounds and validation and external, it's like it all becomes very muddy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The amount of times I've snap or like, you say something and even mine will be like, whoa, wait, where'd that come from? And I'll stop and be like, I'm sorry, I'm just really scared. And I totally took that out on you. And I apologize. My intention.

[B]

Fear and embarrassment really is fear, by the way. It's just shame. I was scared. Shame is fear.

[A]

Shame. Shame is like sad is fear.

[B]

I'm just kidding. Sad is. No, angry is sad.

[A]

Sad, sad, mad, glad are the primary emotions. And then things that come on top of it. So we had a therapist once where I would say I was frustrated. Okay. Frustration wasn't here. What's there?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And at first I thought it was a trick question. She would ask me and I'm like, do you have an answer that you want?

[B]

And she would be sad matter glad.

[A]

Yeah. And then she would be like, sad, bad glad. And I was like, oh, you could have just told me that.

[B]

Yeah, it's been 20 minutes now I'm mad.

[A]

Yeah. And so I was like. And so when we start to understand that, and then when you give credence and you say, I'm sad, it's like you allow that part of you to be like, hey, thanks for seeing me. Nobody has. Nobody listens to me. And you're like, I'm here. I'd like to know what you're. The curiosity. That's the only way. Otherwise I would be telling myself I'm insane.

[B]

Okay, what do we do? I think you and I are both operating under a certain assumption, which is a lot of people. I think it's a certain amount of, like, mental stability, meaning there are people. And one of the things I'm most glad about, however I'm programmed, and I could be wrong, obviously, but I think I'm pretty good at going, this person is an emotional vampire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They appear to be sharing with me and wanting to connect, but really they are. I'm not trying to be funny, but they. When I say, like, insane or something, I'm not. That's too broad of a brush. But I don't have the language. I'm saying I'm talking to somebody and they are telling me, like, I'll give an. I had a five minute conversation with somebody recently, and they told me about someone in their family who had died. And I was like, what's happening? What the fuck is hap? Like, we were eating pretzels. What is this? Yeah, trauma dump. But it's also an earmark. It's an indicator of something unsafe to me. And not everybody has that. It's my daughter's six, for example. And as we go, we'll start teaching her, like, these ways. So I'd just like you to address, like, you and I are kind of extolling the virtues of sharing and being like, I'm embarrassed or I'm scared. And then there is kind of a perversion or a grotesque version of that where it becomes sort of inverted or. Or weaponized. Would you address that 100%?

[A]

I think so many people. I don't even know why I bother. Just the mic. Is the mic even on? So I would say the podcast is.

[B]

Released and it's just me. That's when you know, I am your. Like, don't date me.

[A]

My trauma just follows me everywhere.

[B]

You can't get away from this.

[A]

Can't get away from it. And all the clips are just of you. And I'm like, thank you so much to our brilliant guest, Sabrina Zoar. She bestowed so Much wisdom.

[B]

Check out do the work. Keep saying it. Wonderful podcast.

[A]

So many people will listen. That's the problem. I don't even remember what we talking about.

[B]

I. That's my job. That's not your job. As I said, there are people that weaponize it and invert it and it's grotesque.

[A]

A lot of people will. And there's two different versions, right? And we think about love bombing and you think about like if. Oh yeah, you know, now the coming on really strong. My mom always says, when you start at 100, where else you going to go? Like you're not leaving space for more.

[B]

Yeah, my therapist gave me that note too. Like, what are you doing?

[A]

What are you doing? Cuz there's two school, right? There's two roads that it really goes down. Now, of course there might be others, but off. So there's the one of like the narcissist, right? Their intention, its intention is really important. Their intention is to manipulate, to love bomb, to come on really strong because they want to disarm you. So that way you feel safe with them, right? Oh, I can trust them. Because then when they go into the devalue stage where they start to put you down of the like, you know, yeah, you look good in white. I mean, considering how your hair color is something like that, that's like a backhanded that you're like, huh? Oh, but because I love you. And you're like, right. So the intent is manipulation. Then there's the other school. And the intent is to feel safe. And so they'll go all of the oversharing for someone to see them. And that's where like, at least for me, like, I've dated people like that. I've been that person where like all of a sudden, second date, I'm crying, being like, my brother was taken when I was 10. And you're like, wait, whoa. I just really wanted to expedite that intimacy with you. You. And what's so important is like, if you meet that you do that, you deal with those types of people. One take a look at yourself. Like, who do I not feel hurt around? What story am I trying to share? Like, what's coming up for me. But when I receive that, usually what I'll say is like, the guy said to me, honestly, it was a really good response. He was like, I want to support you, but I don't know you well enough in order to. And I feel like this is a little overwhelming for me.

[B]

I'm sorry, you were dating.

[A]

Second day, second date.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

All right. I know.

[B]

Trying to give this guy so sweet an award board.

[A]

Such a great guy.

[B]

I want to support you, but I don't feel like I. What was it he said?

[A]

I want to support you, but I don't feel like I know you well enough in order to know how to right now. And he was like, this is just a lot for me to bandle.

[B]

And I was like that's great.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

And then like to put that in the. Take some of the politeness out of it. It's like I. I don't feel comfortable or you're scaring me a little bit. That's what it is is you're talking to somebody and you're like, why do I know your cat killed itself?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Why do I know it? Why do I know that I shouldn't know that?

[A]

And then it puts the other person way too susceptible. You just. You're going around giving such important vulnerable information that then you don't know who I am. You don't know that. Maybe later I'll be like, no wonder your cat killed itself. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And all of a sudden you're like, right, Right. And it's like. Cuz I know the cord to pull, right?

[B]

Don't give that away.

[A]

Give it away.

[B]

And it. That's honestly the person that I met most recently that was like this. I actually spend a good amount of time worrying about them and I met them him one time.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

And I'm going, where is this lady?

[A]

Where's the adult? Where's the adult in the room? Because that's a kid that's walking around thinking that. Because that's really the thing is like when we get. When we have our littles. When we get triggered, your little believes that they need to protect you. So like even for instance, I had a once where like we had. When I had the decent desist and I spent like $15,000 on trademarking a bunch of stuff.

[B]

Flex.

[A]

Duh. Right? That's what you do when you're an idiot. But anyways, no, it was. It burned it. No, trust me, don't worry.

[B]

Still had some left.

[A]

Not as much. And I am regretting every single day that I did that. But in the moment fear. I was so scared, I was like, I'll do anything. And what happened is like my little thought she had to figure this out. So she's going through all of these panic, panic, panic until I realized like, hey girl, you got me. She didn't like that. She was like, oh God, you. And it's like, you got me. Sorry, but that's what I mean by like, ain't nobody come and save you, cuz. Here's the thing. You know what Disney lied to us about? They talk about happily ever after.

[B]

Fair price for a churro. You gotta park, pause.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Keep going.

[A]

It's true though.

[B]

If you want the golden, you gotta pause. If you want these churro riffs, what did Disney like?

[A]

I do. No, but I do want the churro riffs.

[B]

No, you don't.

[A]

I do love churros.

[B]

Nobody wants these.

[A]

You'd be surprised.

[B]

Oh, I'm. I'm. I'm abandoning myself. People do want these.

[A]

They do.

[B]

Lots of people want these.

[A]

Yeah, they do. They're literally here for it. Hey. See, you're little. I see you. I hear you.

[B]

I see him too. He's so cute.

[A]

Well, anyhow, Disney lied to us because they talk about happily ever after, but what they don't talk about is like. Like, what does that look like?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Prince Eric. Was he an alcoholic? Like he couldn't. Is that Cinderella couldn't even identify you from your face. He had to know your shoe size. But yet you think marrying him, did he have a drinking problem? Did Beast in the be like, what happened to Beast after when Beauty married Hungry Gone. Gone.

[B]

Hungry Gone.

[A]

Stockholm syndrome. And you're like, was she. You know, did she gain 30 pounds and not leave the house? Like we don't look at what comes after.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that, that's. That's. Talk about a Disney churro.

[B]

Sorry. So many riffs. They're all gone though. Now you and I have a very definitely ater. Beast definitely ate her. I just want to say 100%.

[A]

Candlesticks and all.

[B]

The first fight. Why do you think Chip was chipped? Beast got a temper.

[A]

But why. Why do you think are you Beast? Cuz he had a can he a candlestick. And you've said a lot of things about lighting things on fire.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Oh my God. You're Beast Valas be Judy.

[B]

I'm the rose.

[A]

Fair play.

[B]

Weirdest response.

[A]

I'm the rose.

[B]

I'm the rose in a glass case.

[A]

I'm in a glass case of emotions.

[B]

I am in a glass case of emotion. Well, that's the other relationship tip. This is so absurd. But it's gonna be the most honest thing I've ever said is find somebody who finds the way that you're annoying to be delightful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like. Like if. If the way that I'm too much, which I concede. I like to Say, I'm shushed by children. I have been shushed by children.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

Val is about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is the best feeling in the world. If we're at a party and I start to feel like I'm not. Like I'm vanishing, which is an unsafe feeling for me, and I start saying inappropriate things. Val might be kind of like. And then there's a part of her that goes like, it's. He's not boring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like she likes it. And I mean that. And that's true love. That and the way that Val is. Whatever I. This is. I'm not trying to be schmalty. I'm just saying, like, she's not as extreme as I am. If one of us is more forgiving or allowing, it's her.

[A]

Oh, same true.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I've got old.

[B]

Old frame over here.

[A]

Old frame over here. I've got stoic.

[B]

You mean the frame is disproportionate.

[A]

Weird. Holding the art emotionally. I. I'm the same. I am. My friend always said. I remember telling him, I'm like, I always feel like I'm too much. He's like, then let them go. Find less. And I was like, shaboop. You're right. Because kick rocks without shoes. Like, I don't really give a. If I'm too much. There's other people. I get. Even to this day, I remember I did Nicole Byers podcast, and I had.

[B]

People message me what mentions of other podcasts. We don't want that.

[A]

Okay. I did an unnamed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I did another podcast audio recording. Yeah. I did a. It's weird, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And somebody actually found me on insta and DM'd me and was like, you need to learn how to take a breath. You spoke too fast, and you gave me a headache.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, how about. Here's. Here's my best advice for you. And I'm going to say this with a lot of love, and I'm going to tell you something you might need to learn.

[B]

Did you write this?

[A]

Yeah. I was like, go yourself. I was like, that's it. I said, obviously, you've never been punched in the face. And I was like, for you. You. For you to unsolicit. For you to reach out to someone and tell me that you don't like how I do things. That's anxious attachment at its finest. I'm uncomfortable with my surroundings, so I need to control everything besides myself. Because you know what? You have a choice. Walk. Keep going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Scroll.

[B]

Next there's a pause button. It's the most pleasant button to touch. It looks like a Twix.

[A]

What a crazy thing. But trying to control other people is never. But if you actually like. When I. When I met Ryan, first date, I came in, I was guns blazing. Not a negative. I was just myself. Myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I realize if I'm not. Well, if you don't like me, I'd rather you not like me for who I am than you not like.

[B]

Let's get this over with. Let's get this over with.

[A]

If I'm too much. Goodbye.

[B]

Don't like me now.

[A]

That's why we. On the first day, I wanted to get it out of the way. Not saying everyone has to.

[B]

Nice. Yeah, I. I get that. Two things, two jokes come to mind is sometimes I. I think I've said this on stage or maybe on the pod. I go. I'd hang out with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that doesn't mean I like people who are like me. I often don't.

[A]

I get that.

[B]

But I would hang out with me.

[A]

I was gonna say. Cuz people like that are often like me. Trigger me. Because then I'm like. And then. Oh, that's me.

[B]

No, Val's not like me. She's not that we're both that kind of.

[A]

You and I shouldn't date then. So you maybe you and Ryan are great for each other.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

You'll notice that I never once ripped that you and I should date because I acknowledge that right away. Ryan, on the other hand.

[A]

I don't even know.

[B]

It's not a compliment. 100% JK, you just walked right into that one. You and I are both the kind of sprinklers that something disrupts us. We're one of those. One of those. You know. You ever see two of those next to each other?

[A]

No, no, no. He's floods.

[B]

No, it's fish. Those go next to grass. Grass.

[A]

Dry grass, if you will. But. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And then you moisture moistened them up. Now look at him. Yeah, I did the winking game is on point. It's very strong.

[A]

I tried. It's all I have. Really.

[B]

That's not true. You stop abandoning yourself.

[A]

Talk about self deprecation.

[B]

I drew a cartoon for the New Yorker. Flex. They didn't buy it. Anti flex, but I. I think about it all the time. And it's a therapist talking to a car. They should have bought it just for the caption.

[A]

100%.

[B]

And the therapist what is he saying? He's saying that's how New Yorker cartoon is. Always do their captions, they go. And what is he saying? He's saying they build tension. He's just saying, ideally, we'll get you to a place where you can validate your own parking. Which I think about every time I have my parking. Validate. It's a classic cartoon. It's a classic. They didn't buy it.

[A]

I'm. That's shocking.

[B]

Classic.

[A]

I question 300 bucks. I question their taste.

[B]

You're not gonna give me 300 bucks.

[A]

I will.

[B]

And I mean, do I not.

[A]

It's not the same.

[B]

But here's the point. I give myself 300 bucks.

[A]

Yeah. And then you can just doctor it up. You just put it on and just. Then you can tell.

[B]

Well, I could just Instagram it and then just be like. And that's how I made no money. But anyway, what I'm saying is, I thought you might enjoy that. Cuz we're supposed to be validating our own parking 100%.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's a weird. Being an adult is weird. Like nobody teaches us any of this stuff. Nobody tells us how to do any of this. We're all walking around, around. It's like just in our own echo chambers. Oh, God. I remember once I had the. The first. The only time I had my own podcast where I didn't share the episode. It's the one time one guest ever. I'm not gonna say who it is, but. Right.

[B]

What is their name rhyme with? Just kidding.

[A]

I was about to say it. I was like thinking about it, but I remember I asked Ryan, I came down and I was like, can you please listen to this? I was like, I just kind of need someone else. And he came up and he's like. He said his first. He spoke about himself in third person 23 times. And he kept saying, like, if you work with someone like me. And they would say his name. And I was like, but wait, isn't that you? But he kept telling me the noise between your ears. And then. And I was like, okay, so are you just trying to say the narrative that I've created, but nonetheless, the echo chamber that I've created up here that only knows the same sandstorm is gonna keep doing the same until we do. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if that. If that was the longest winded way of me telling people to stay true to themselves in an awakening. It is.

[B]

I loved it. And I thought about Breath of the Wild and the Sandstorm Level. Don't worry about it. Ryan knows what I'm talking about. He's rock hard right now.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say you guys run off into the sunset. You and your broad shoulders both.

[B]

Okay, come on. I'm swimming. Took me 46 years. What was I going to say? Okay, it's not a. It's not a speed round, but it's a short question. Where are you on the dating apps?

[A]

Oh, I'm not.

[B]

Where can I find you on them? No, I'm just like, what do. Do you think people should do? Use them?

[A]

I do. I met my partner on Hinge, so I'm a bit biased at this one. And the reason I say is because you got to be a better buyer. I think a lot of people use apps with one just unrealistic expectations, as if everyone on that app is on there for the same reasons. When it's like, no, people are newly single. Some people have been there for a while. Some want casual, some don't. Like, you got to be a better buyer and also manage your expectations.

[B]

Wait, let's stop on be a better buyer. It means like, know what you want.

[A]

Know what you want. And also be able to just discerned. Because like, when I see how many people they're like, well, I messaged this guy and blah, blah, and it's like, okay, what did you like about his profile? There's nothing. You list me. Or if I'm like, okay, Ryan's famous thing. Because on the. On the podcast will. Or like, we do profile audits so people will send them the number one thing. He'll like, have me read it and be like, all right, name three things you remember. Most of the time, I remember nothing. Or it's like, you like cats. You had a cat in your photo and you really, like, dressed up as a cat. Like there was just something random. Yeah, most people are not looking to be discerning. They're seeing it as like, oh, my God, he's really cool. Maybe he'll like me. Instead of what do I like about that? What are my expectations? Or they message me. Okay, well, it's taken six weeks and we haven't made a plan. It's like, be more discerning. Understand what it is that you're actually looking for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That way you can walk away from that. Doesn't align speed.

[B]

Agree.

[A]

So to me, dating apps I think are good if you understand you have a relate.

[B]

But aren't the apps designed to discourage that type of. Not that that's your job. You're not an Apple developer. I'm just saying, like, seems like it's. It wants you to get into that casino.

[A]

Of course. It's a business. Now, here's a fun thing. You know that the apps are actually 70% men?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Right. We think that there. We think.

[B]

Why your dad opened the bar. He did.

[A]

Yeah. It's true. That was the 80s. Between porn theaters and a gay club. You can imagine the colorful palace I had.

[B]

I mean, don't sniff them up.

[A]

Okay. Don't cut.

[B]

Don't say that.

[A]

Katie, edit that out.

[B]

I'm just kidding. Leave it in.

[A]

Poor Katie.

[B]

She's a boy. Katie's like, welcome to Monday.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Katie is not. She's like, this is.

[A]

This is what I have to deal with.

[B]

Figure out what percentage of your life that says, katie, don't do it. It's 01. I'm sure.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It might be. It might be in the. Yeah, I was in the single digits.

[A]

But nonetheless, moral of the story is just like, if you're going to use apps, manage your. Manage how you have a relationship with them. Right. Like, if you are. Like, for me, I had to set a lot of boundaries. I couldn't go on all the time because I was swiping, swiping, swiping, swiping. Now, yes. Is their goal to keep you on the apps? Of course they're making money, but that's why I don't look at it as the end all, be all. It is one way of all these different ways that I might meet somebody.

[B]

Yeah, that's all. Okay.

[A]

Someone doesn't try to make a date with you in a week. It's like, don't waste your time.

[B]

Well, what brought that brought to mind? This type where you're talking to somebody again. I actually think some of my introversion is that I'm so overwhelmed. I told you that I've been thinking about that woman that told me that. I was like, I'm worried about you. I've been thinking about her a lot. I'm like, actually, it might seem callous. It's actually really sensitive. And similarly, I knew somebody, I was talking to somebody recently that they're like, talking about their great girlfriend. And then you're like, when's the last time you saw them? And it's like two months ago or something. And then you're like, when are you gonna see them? And it's like, well, they're in Nova Scotia or something. It's always just like you're over here going like, that guy's cheating. On you, or he's not that into you, or you just want to say like, is this what you want? Some people, that is what they want. That's heaven. They just want to be alone most of the time and occasionally get a gift from Nova Scotia and some of that Nordic dick.

[A]

I was about to say sometimes the dick is a. Or sometimes the gift is a photo.

[B]

Of dick of a dick of a Nordic dick. A little hat on it with the horns. But I guess here's. Here's how I'm going to formulate that as a question. How. It's a leading question. How important is it to know what you want?

[A]

It is beyond important. Because if you don't know what it is that you want, how are you expecting to be able to receive what it is that you need? Because like I. If I. If I wasn't so painfully clear about the way. Not that I don't care about what they look. No, no, no. Get rid of all those stupid.

[B]

Clearly.

[A]

Ah, Bird, that's your boyfriend, first of all.

[B]

I know, but I'm rough with him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you are.

[B]

Keeps him on his toes. I don't know why. It was Trump. When I date you, I'm Trump.

[A]

Perfect for him.

[B]

Love his shorts. Beautiful little shorts.

[A]

Five inch always, but not. Oh, not that five inch.

[B]

Five inch to the knee.

[A]

No inseam. Five inch inseam.

[B]

Oh, keep them little.

[A]

Keep. Well, keep them looking.

[B]

Keep them looking.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

We need a montage of all the winks. We need a montage of all the winks. All the winks.

[A]

Say it without saying it.

[B]

It was some good wink. Keep going. But you don't remember where you were.

[A]

No, I don't. Truth be told, it was a bunch.

[B]

Of know what you want.

[A]

Know what you want because you're at the end of the day what you were talking about. Somatic. The somatic stuff. The feeling. Because if I don't identify, like for me, I knew I needed somebody that acts a service was a way that they love me. So when I went reminded that we had our third date, I remember I was leaving and I told him how I don't really eat lunch cuz I me, I'm all over the place.

[B]

Charles doesn't eat lunch, huh?

[A]

Well.

[B]

Oh, King Charles. Excuse me. Just downgraded him. I nag him, so.

[A]

Poor guy. Yeah. Is that another boyfriend?

[B]

It's another boyfriend. I keep his shorts short and I keep pranking Charles on speed dial. I don't know how to finish that ref.

[A]

You go just Starved for more.

[B]

But he also doesn't eat lunch.

[A]

Yeah. So I don't. I just.

[B]

That's my Food slows you down.

[A]

The adhd. Like, I just. I don't think about it. My brain is all over. And then by the time it's. I'm like, oh, it's 8 o' clock and I haven't eaten that I guessed.

[B]

Food slows you down.

[A]

I'm like, it's my brain.

[B]

That is a microaggression.

[A]

But it's probably true. But anyway, he's a loving guess. When we first. When I left his house, he gave me lunch and he was like, hey, I know that you don't really eat. So he's like, I made leftovers last night, so I wanted you to have food for tomorrow.

[B]

Sorry. The ladies of America salute you.

[A]

Just. Ooh, the panties have dropped.

[B]

Collectively, they would slide down if they weren't sopping wet. Jesus Christ.

[A]

We are.

[B]

The vaginal riffs on this episode are not suitable for ads.

[A]

Which is funny because I don't normally. So I'm going with it.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

But nonetheless, like, if I didn't know how I wanted to feel with someone, I would have been like, he's like a nice guy. He's not really getting. But I didn't really know what it is that I needed. I knew what it is that I wanted, which was not healthy.

[B]

Tuna Mountain is what you needed, right?

[A]

Yeah, actually. Though. Anyway. But what I actually wanted, or what I thought I wanted was somebody who was grandiose and all those things. But what I needed was actually somebody a lot calmer, a lot quieter. Not quieter in that way, but, like, more centered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And quieter. Cause I don't. Shut the fuck up.

[B]

More of a steady Eddie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who knows? He might be a real gabble Gus. You wouldn't know.

[A]

No, he doesn't. He doesn't like talking.

[B]

You're like Frogger, but the traffic is just constant. And he's. You're like, I like my little frog. He just stays there. Motherfucker doesn't have a window.

[A]

No. You should have seen when I first met him. The whole time I'm sitting there and I was like, you didn't have a personality. Because I would say something and he would do the.

[B]

I mean, it takes him a minute. Pretty fast at riffing. I've gotten like, one out of eight in. So I want you to know you're not alone trauma. Oh, that's not a. That's not a dig on you. It's a day off. For me, I was bowed down. Do you think I want to be riffing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

I don't. I don't need to be hosting the show. I'd love. You're a dream guest.

[A]

Just take it.

[B]

You are. I really want you to know that. What a wonderful guest you are.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Sorry to be sincere. It's off putting.

[A]

Yeah. I can see how wet vaginas. I can see the visceral discomfort of. Of like, I am nice.

[B]

We both didn't know what to do. No, I was like, what?

[A]

You're like, thank. Thank you. I'm learning that that's my thing of like, just know. Say. Just know how to say thank you and not follow it up with, you're right, I'm terrible.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, thank you. But you can imagine when we first met, I was like, wow, this guy doesn't talk. And what I realized was, he doesn't talk, but when he does, it takes him a minute to process and to think. So now I've learned to shut my mouth.

[B]

Not doing Steady Eddies. Say, the Eddies are good for.

[A]

You. Shots fired.

[B]

I was gonna say nut job, but I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I couldn't do it. Your eyes were like, listening, what's he gonna say? And I was like, don't say nut job.

[A]

I was like that on a day when I was like, I need to build myself up, come to Pete's podcast.

[B]

And for the oyster jokes and call you a nutjob. See, that's what Val would find charming. Charming. If I said, you know, I was going to call you something, and then I said, don't say nut job. And Val would be like, but you did say nut job by saying, don't say nut job. That's what you want. I. We don't bicker. But there is, like a but. You do see that. You just did it and we love it.

[A]

So when people do. No offense. And you're like, that doesn't make it any better.

[B]

I know. Or that's just my opinion. It's like, those are bad shoes. I'm just saying it like it is. It's how it is to you. It's still rude, by the way. I don't think we. We spent enough time on you saying, you've never been punched in the face. You typed it. Were your hands shaking when you typed it? Yeah. You were mad.

[A]

I was go. I was on.

[B]

You were mad.

[A]

I was so mad.

[B]

But did you read it before you.

[A]

Hit send I sent it, then you read it. And then I blocked him because I got scared.

[B]

Yeah, blocked.

[A]

I blocked. Blocked and blessed.

[B]

No, he doesn't get to blocked and blessed. Never heard that before. Is that a thing?

[A]

Oh, it's very much my world.

[B]

Blocked and blessed.

[A]

Why would I want you in my ecosystem? Why would I want. You wouldn't come up to me in the. In person and say that to me.

[B]

Open the window. You just can't. You can't stick your head out and just listen to the people walking by.

[A]

The people that aren't doing the same thing.

[B]

No.

[A]

Cuz there's a lot of people that don't put themselves in front of other people. And you don't understand what it feels like to receive. To have people tell you how much they don't like you for just being yourself.

[B]

I know. And. And you know, there's a very good chance that you or I remind somebody of something. It has nothing to do with any. Anything.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Do you know Byron Kitty's the work?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you do? Yeah, it's wonderful, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's great.

[B]

I just think you would like it. And you do.

[A]

I was gonna say there's a lot because there's so many different schools of thought, there's so many modalities. And that's how I got to where I'm at, is I started to learn all these different isms that I really liked and like trans. Can I talk? Frankly speaking, I'm in your mind.

[B]

That was a long gap. Both of us were just like, oh. She took a breath, breath. And you should like. Jesus Christ, what the is wrong with you? Put a sentence together.

[A]

You can see in my brain, it's like cannot compute. You could see the up. And then he's like, we're back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now go throw up out of your mouth. Yeah, but I don't remember what I was gonna say.

[B]

Anyways, that's my job. Yeah, but I don't remember this time.

[A]

Perfect. Brandon Boyd and porn theaters. That's all we were really going to talk about anyways.

[B]

Mom, dad, Brandon Boyd. Mistakes you've made, mistakes most make show up as yourself. Manifesting. You did talk about manifesting thing.

[A]

Manifesting is. I, I don't. I. I mean, we're in la, so you need a lot of the like, good vibes only.

[B]

Yeah, well, I am communicating with my brow. Like, we're not crazy about manifesting, are we? Because I'm trying to lead you. But you can be however you want. Look at this face.

[A]

Still so much Judgment that you don't even see. I see.

[B]

Tell me about manifesting.

[A]

I'm trying to just so to manifest, you have to talk to the universe. And it's like, I would rather I look at it as I need to get really clear on where I want to go so that I can be pre. To receive it.

[B]

Well, I'll say this. And it does happen to be the girlfriend who I wish the best for. And that's very sincere. She was a very exciting, intense person who I was crazy about. This is the infatuation girl. She told me manifesting stories that blew my mind. Blew my mind, including kind of me. Like, it was weird. I was like, did I get pulled in by someone's. The secret thing? Like, am I that hat?

[A]

You're on her vision board.

[B]

Yeah. Basically that I heard the. Not the sirens call, but like, I heard the. The pan flute and I just walked towards it. But like, there were some stories, like. And it sounded like you had a story where you manifested your first boyfriend.

[A]

Yeah. His name was Brandon.

[B]

And his name was Brandon.

[A]

Yeah, I was it. Because I believe.

[B]

I hope you said that in the middle of your first sex sexual encounter where you like that same name is incubus.

[A]

I was thinking it. I was thinking it. That's why I did it. But I do. I don't believe. I think my issue is. And I've had a friend in New York years ago, and she was an actress. She reminded me of Tobias Finke. Like, she just was like, I'm an actor, but, like, never worked. Like, didn't actually do anything similar.

[B]

Short length is our never nude over here.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I wish you guys could see Ryan is wearing never nude. You just not done.

[A]

Not denim.

[B]

They're never nudes.

[A]

Close enough.

[B]

That should be your clothing. Never nude brand line. Just never nude line. Yes.

[A]

And she. But she was very much like that where like this girl just everything was her vision board and now she's manifesting. But the girl never went in a fucking audition. Like, she never did anything. That's my thing of. If you want to manifest, get very clear on what it is that you want and then go make action. My goal. I want to be on tv. Okay. I want to be like a host. So then what does that mean? I need to position myself because I have a clear direction of where I'm going. Yeah, but if I just sat at home every day and didn't do. I'm not manifesting anything. I'm just sitting in delusion.

[B]

Well, it's interesting as you're Saying that I'm like, you're we. Let's say we are invoking the universe. You are a part, you're a lawful expression of the universe. So you can also be involved in that. That is that old church joke where they're like, guy prayed every day to win the lottery and then one day God opens the heavens and goes by a ticket. I mean, it's a cliche for a reason. It's a good story. A lot of people are going like, I'd like to be on tv. You'd be wonderful on tv. And you should get in the mix, get involved, say it.

[A]

Pursue that.

[B]

If only there was film in these cameras. I snorted. When you find out none of this.

[A]

Was real recorded, and I find out that you don't even have a podcast, you're like, this is just for me.

[B]

No, I just want, like meeting people. It's like the guy that goes through airport security to just hang out. I just buy a flight to LAX from Burbank.

[A]

It was a good time.

[B]

Just so I can go to Pandax Brown. It's fun. Okay.

[A]

It's true. But now manifesting is real. I think it's real when you're real with yourself. I don't believe in the woo woo. Like, oh my God, I'm tapping it. I ain't believe whatever fuck you want to believe. We're in la. But I do believe that if I get really clear on what I want and I actually believe that I could do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think there's anything that stops me. That's in my control.

[B]

Yeah. Love it.

[A]

It.

[B]

I'm trying to remember. I. At one point I put this together and it became this thing I try to remember. I think everything you get you did manifest, but you don't get everything you manifest.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cuz there's just too much when I get real thin. If old Petey has like a vision board on his phone, it's not a good month for homesy. Like something's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I made a vision board. This was, I don't know, four or five years ago. And every, every single thing on it didn't happen.

[A]

Yeah, same.

[B]

So like, we need to have an understanding of manifesting that allows for when it doesn't happen. So that's why I like everything you get you did manifest. But not everything you manifest.

[A]

You get me a year ago would have said, hey, we worked for this. We, we moved to la, we did all the things that you said you wanted to do. You're on these amazing podcasts. You're getting to meet some good people, present company included.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry, am I Nicole Buyer? You are salty banned. I'm your dad right now, cuz I. You were never my guest.

[A]

No wonder I'm here. No wonder I see. I tell you Trauma follows me or I follow Trauma.

[B]

You are a wonderful guest. Keep going. I hate this riff. I hate. I disown this riff. Now we wait for the rift to crawl back.

[A]

Yeah, I was in. Now I get to. Now I have to come in to kiss your ring.

[B]

Yes. Oh my God.

[A]

But nonetheless, I think I truly believe like the version I am last year would been looking at me being like, hey, well, we worked for this. So what the is your problem? Why are you happy? And because it's always a moving target when you're manifesting. What we have to look at is it's not about what am I trying to achieve. It's also how can I be really happy with what I have right now? Because if I'm. My mama has always said you were good before them, you'll be good after. And they're in addition to your life. It's not instead of. And if I'm always putting this benchmark of a relationship or a career or somebody and I'm not staying in the moment to be excited about where I'm at, then what the is that going to bring me?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Just another pit stop to want something that's up the road.

[A]

There's more zeros to my problems. It's like it's not actually. But if I can actually be in the now of like, I. What I've always said is I want.

[B]

To be able panic with better ice cream. Sorry, I want to riff on it.

[A]

No, that's anxiety and me.

[B]

Yeah, it's just dread with bottle service. Sorry. Keep going.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

But forget don't you.

[A]

Yeah, I do. Honestly. Cuz my brain is already like, where are we going?

[B]

I know. You'd be like, if Batman was driving you to the bat cave, he wouldn't have to blindfold you. He'd just have to be like, tell me about what's wrong with fast food. And then he'd drive right under Wayne Manor and you'd be like, what?

[A]

How'd we get here?

[B]

I say that as someone who also could be assuaged with light conversation.

[A]

Yeah. Because all of a sudden it's like something shiny because my brain can't handle more.

[B]

Here's a. We have just A minute left here in this made up thing that I've made up. We're running out of time because Last call with Carson Daly is on after us. What?

[A]

You've already cut me off, like, so many ways.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So this ended like two hours ago.

[B]

Just put me in a Vitamix. We're gonna end with how we started because I'm selfish. But, like, when you have parents that aren't available for what you're needing, what do you do? Like, how do you thread the needle of. This I'm okay with. And this is. This is too much of an ask.

[A]

Right now as like an adult, when you've had dealt with that. I think it's really about just looking at what is their bandwidth to be able to satisfy that need.

[B]

Your needs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if that's a very low bandwidth, manage your expectations. And then when it comes to, like, let's say your dad is like, you don't visit enough. What do you say?

[A]

Usually my response isn't, when's the last time you did. I just put it back.

[B]

But what if he's like, I'm. I can come next week. And you don't want him to.

[A]

Oh, typically I'd be like, I'm traveling then. But let's. Let's get a date in the books. I'd love to see you. But I. Or what I'll say is, I'll call my sister in a full panic and be like, all right, motherfucker wants to come. How are we gonna do this? How many days at your house? How many days of mine? I look at, what can I actually handle? Because for a while, I didn't have my dad in my life. I didn't talk to him for years on end. And when I met Ryan, I hadn't spoken to him. And it took me a minute to get the courage to say, if I want you in my life, that's because I'm choosing to have you in my life, not because you're forcing your way in.

[B]

And did that change things for you?

[A]

Yeah, it's a certain extent. We talk every few months, like we barely speak. And when we do do, it's. It's a nice reminder of why we don't speak more.

[B]

And how long are you taken out of the game of your life? Exercise, good mood, productivity. After you talk to your dad, how much does that throw you off nowadays?

[A]

Not as much as it used. It used to be.

[B]

That's what I was hoping.

[A]

Yeah, you would say used to be days. And now when I hang up I'll just be like, and this is a reminder as to why I have boundaries with you.

[B]

Can I. I'm going to. This is a big breakthrough for me in therapy with internal family systems that I wasn't leading us to. But it just. I can't wait to share it with you and see what you have is. I had to talk to all of my protectors and all my parts and all my littles and all that stuff. And we kept saying, like. I was like, we'll just accept them. We'll just accept them. We'll just accept them. And they didn't believe me. They were like, you know, And I knew that they were right. They were like, you know, there's a combination of behaviors, words, whatever it might be, that will upset you. And the breakthrough of all breakthroughs, it was huge. Was. That's true. And I'll handle it. And just telling the whole team, all the kids, all the. There's a bear. There's all these different guys. I go, I'm not saying it won't upset me. I'm not saying there won't be times where I'm just in a waterfall of sadness and anger, but please, you're seven years old. Go to the Fun Spot Arcade in Vermont. You go play there. I can be angry and sad. Look at all my resources. But the switch was from saying, I won't be angry and sad to going like, no, I will be. It was like we drew the blinds in this majestic hall, and suddenly they trusted me to be in charge. I was like, I will hate certain things when they happen, and it will take me out of commission maybe for a day or whatever, but let. Let me do it. We don't all have to get every broken little scared kid also totally fucked. I'm 46 years old and I'm resourced. I'll be upset. I'll. Let me do it.

[A]

And to think you didn't have to show your license.

[B]

You know, it is a real idea. I have a contact at the dmv.

[A]

I will say I had to do the same. That's a flex in California, after sit, like three hours of waiting for a sticker. It's a flex.

[B]

That's a hard flex.

[A]

I did something similar the other day where I told my littles. I was like, I have an alarm system. And I was like, you worry about what's in the house. You worry about what you're feeling, how you're feeling, what's coming up for you. And I was like, but the external world. I've Got a really beautiful alarm system that is triggered anything around. If anything happens, I'll know. You don't need to tell me. I got your back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it takes time because there's gonna be people that are like, what the you talking about? But it takes time for your little. Your little doesn't trust you. So it's going to take time because that's self trust right there. When you're like, I know I got this. That to me, when I overthink and all that, at the end of the day, will I be okay? No matter what. Then I'm good.

[B]

Love it. Here's a dad joke. Did you like being the spokesperson for Micro Machines? You're too young. I think I am, yeah. If you're laughing, get a colonoscopy. I saved it. I saved it with a hot riff.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

How old are you? 38, 39. Nice. But you started to say, which makes me think you're a dirty John. You're like. You're a con man and a hard liar. Jk, I would never do that. Look at this guy.

[A]

He's almost. Almost 40.

[B]

It's like a Josh Brolin type.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Real man. Yeah. Not this guy. This guy looks for that guy when there's trouble.

[A]

That's why you put your together.

[B]

That's why I wear my. You know how good it feels. Just go. If shit goes down, just get behind my man.

[A]

How do you think I feel?

[B]

You can get in my back pocket. It's just I'm very big and I'll get behind him and we'll all be safe.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

He'll be long dead by the time.

[A]

They get to me. I am so good. I got two of you.

[B]

He's dead. I'm maimed. You're gone. Yeah, you were hidden in my pocket.

[A]

It's perfect.

[B]

The perfect gene use promo code. Weird. Well, thank you very much. There's nothing else we have to do. Just you have to say, keep it crispy. That's how we end keep it crispy. And you did it. What if it was like some weird incel thing? Like ah. And then your podcast. We've said is a million times, but you say it, you plug it.

[A]

It's called the Sabrina Zohar show, not anything else. And it's on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, all those things. And if you want to see me talk to a camera for 35 minutes, come on in. You think this is fast? Just wait until I'm talking to myself.

[B]

Wow. Wow. Four hours of podcasting in 15 minutes. That's the Sabrina guarantee. What do you mean, 30 what? Talk on what camera?

[A]

I talk to myself. I do solos. Riffing. Just straight riffing. So. So I'm like, imagine me with my brain. That's why I need notes. Because all of a sudden I'm like, how did I start talking about, like, World War iii? And the next thing, I'm like, oh, that's shiny. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's only been two. Well, thanks for doing it.

[A]

We're about to hit it. Thanks, guys.

[B]

We're done.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can. You can keep going.

[A]

I don't get a goodbye? I was like, so anyways.