Seth Rogen (Re-Release)

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — Seth Rogen (Re-Release)

Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Seth Rogen
Date of Original Recording: 2017 (Re-released June 4, 2025)
Theme: Exploring personal weirdness, creativity, comedy, self-expression, and the meaning of life with comedian and filmmaker Seth Rogen.

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Overview

In this lively and insightful conversation, Pete Holmes sits down with Seth Rogen for a deep-dive into the comedic mind, the creative process, and the nuances of being “weird.” This episode—originally recorded in 2017—is a wide-ranging dialogue on everything from acting and writing to relationships, anxiety, psychedelics, and existential questions, peppered with sharp observations, self-deprecating humor, and memorable storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Work, Rest, and the Artist’s Lifestyle

• Reluctance Toward Socializing After Work
  • Seth describes podcasting as the LA equivalent of “driving someone to the airport,” reflecting on how, after a day of performing, he craves solitude.
    • “After what I do all day, the last thing I want to do is listen to two comedians talk to one another.” (03:31, Seth Rogen)
• The Pull Between Doing Nothing and Doing Things
  • Pete and Seth connect over their introvert-extrovert nature, acknowledging the need to overcome the comfort of home to experience happiness and growth.
    • “I like doing things, which is a weird thing as someone who's always identified as liking doing nothing.” (06:26, Seth Rogen)
  • They praise Judd Apatow as a “do-er,” noting that sometimes pushing oneself to be active is the key to fulfillment.

2. Relationships and Being Wrong

• The Value of a “Witness”
  • Seth discusses the checks and balances his wife brings to his life, especially in situations where he might default to less ethical choices.
    • “I am acutely aware that she's constantly telling [me I’m wrong].” (10:02, Seth Rogen)
• Resetting the Relationship Clock
  • Comic discussion about how marriage “resets” the years together, undercut with familiarity and mutual self-deprecation.
• Cultural Differences in Admitting Wrongness
  • Comparing Boston stubbornness (Pete) to Canadian apologetic tendencies (Seth):
    • “Canadians are okay admitting that they're wrong and apologizing.” (13:40, Seth Rogen)

3. Comedy, Movies, and the State of Entertainment

• Evolving Movie Landscape
  • Seth reflects on how the types of comedy films that succeeded historically—such as “Superbad”—would now struggle for a theatrical release, pointing to “marvelization” and streaming dominance.
    • “I question if like Superbad would get a big theatrical release today..." (17:22, Seth Rogen)
• Making Comedy for Theaters
  • The unique communal energy of a comedy packed theater is explored—the “cathedral” experience as described via Joseph Campbell.
    • “It’s the only way I know how to write a movie, is considering what it’s doing to a theater full of people.” (23:17, Seth Rogen)
• Pushing Creative Boundaries
  • The importance of genuine creative risk is highlighted, with examples like “Sausage Party” and “Deadpool.”

4. The Mechanics & Philosophy of Comedy

• Comedy as Dialogue, Not Monologue
  • Seth likens stand-up and film comedy to an interactive relationship with the audience, aiming for laughter, surprise, and emotional resonance.
• Comedy-Horror Parallels
  • They discuss tension as both a comedic and horror tool.
    • “My favorite movies this year were ‘Green Room,’...’10 Cloverfield Lane’...I think miseries are funny—it becomes comedic.” (24:20, Seth Rogen)
• On Writing for Laughs
  • Balancing leaving “air” for audience laughter in film vs. timing for home viewing is discussed.
    • “We were so enamored with the laughs that we were like, clear out room there...then you got a lot of room—too much room.” (27:41, Seth Rogen)
• On Being Personal in Comedy
  • Early stand-up lessons encourage specificity and authenticity.
    • “You're the only person here who can talk about what it's like to try to get a hand job for the first time in real time, not reflecting on it, you're experiencing it.” (88:01, Seth Rogen quoting Daryl Lennox)

5. Anxiety, Creativity, and Self-Expression

• Comedy as a Coping Mechanism for Anxiety
  • “Doing things reduces my anxiety. Doing this podcast reduces my anxiety.” (33:31, Pete Holmes)
  • Seth admits to high anxiety as a kid, leading to intense ambition.
• Socioeconomic Influences
  • Both recall how exposure to wealthier peers heightened awareness of status and ambition.
• Motivation to Be Understood
  • Seth frames his creative drive as a need to be heard, seen, and to have his perspective recognized.
    • “I liked the idea of, as lame as it sounds, expressing myself...tell jokes that made people laugh, but also made them understand my perspective on things.” (38:11, Seth Rogen)

6. Religion, Meaning, and Morality

• Movies as Vehicles for Exploring Deeper Themes
  • Many Rogen projects examine faith, goodness, and existential doubt (“This Is The End,” “Sausage Party”).
    • “Religion's a thing we talk about a lot and think about a lot—the reasons for it, the good parts, the bad parts, the evolution of it, the perversion of it.” (44:46, Seth Rogen)
• Ethics of Action vs. Inaction
  • Discussing complicity, neutrality, and the responsibility to do good.
    • “By doing nothing, are you just making people's lives shittier? Is inaction the same as negative action?” (48:08, Seth Rogen)
• Starfish Parable
  • Attempting to avoid overwhelm, do “the good that you can do”—every positive act counts.

7. Psychedelics, Empathy, and Emotional Intelligence

• History with Mushrooms
  • Seth shares early, frequent psychedelic use and its impact on social awareness and empathy.
    • “Mushrooms did make me very aware of energy...you'd be very aware of, like, someone ruining other people's vibes.” (56:22, Seth Rogen)
• The Need to Be Seen and Understood
  • Both compare artistic expression to the universal human need for validation and connection.

8. Acting, Directing, and Working with Others

• Filmmaker’s Perspective on Acting
  • Seth sees himself as a director/filmmaker first—even while acting, he’s piecing himself into the larger puzzle.
• On Giving and Receiving Direction
  • Memorable odd directions recounted, e.g., Judd Apatow on 40-Year-Old Virgin:
    • “Less semen, more emotion.” (69:32, Judd Apatow via Seth Rogen)
• Trust and Collaboration
  • Trust in collaborators to “go there” in scripts/performances and not betray that trust.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Needing Solitude:
  “How do I get home to do nothing? Yeah.” (06:09, Seth Rogen)
• On Comedy and Therapy:
  “Paranoid people are correct sometimes.” (07:32, Pete Holmes)
• On the Creative Process:
  “It’s all about perception…I did things.” (09:03, Pete Holmes)
• On Being a Good Person:
  “Start by not making things shittier for people.” (47:45, Seth Rogen)
• On Movie Writing:
  “The thing that seems the least important at the beginning of the movie is the most important at the end...” (46:25, Seth Rogen)
• On Mushrooms and Empathy:
  “I think I'm a very sensitive person…when it comes to what people are feeling in any given moment.” (61:39, Seth Rogen)
• On Comedy Advice:
  “Talk about this shit that only you can talk about.” (88:01, Seth Rogen)
• On Meaning and Happiness:
  “The happiest I've been is when I don't put a lot of thought into where it all goes and instead put…The journey is what counts in every way.” (77:40, Seth Rogen)
• On Kindness and the Little Things:
  “You could go up to any person…any person you see and you don't know them…and if you just go, ‘coward’…it would fuck up their whole day.” (53:35, Pete Holmes)

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Important Timestamps

• Introductions & Podcast Context
  • 00:00–03:16
• Doing vs. Not Doing
  • 03:46–08:58
• Being Wrong, Family, and Culture
  • 09:03–14:43
• Comedy Movies & Audience
  • 17:20–23:17
• Film vs. Stand-Up Comedy
  • 23:17–29:30
• Creative Goals, Story vs. Plot
  • 44:33–47:35
• Ethics of Action/Inaction
  • 47:45–51:35
• Psychedelics, Emotional Intelligence
  • 56:22–62:13
• Acting, Directing, Advice
  • 63:28–71:39
• Meaning of Life, Legacy, and Being Present
  • 75:45–80:51
• Weed & Functionality
  • 81:44–85:42
• Writing & Comedy Lessons
  • 86:02–90:48
• Hardest Laughs, Friends, and Wrap-Up
  • 90:36–92:29

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Tone & Style

• Candid, reflective, and often self-deprecating
• Loose and conversational, peppered with anecdotes
• Philosophical but rarely pretentious; grounded in real experience
• Safe space for “weirdness,” anxiety, and artistic vulnerability

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Summary Takeaway

This episode reveals how Seth Rogen’s journey—marked by anxiety, reflection, risk, and relentless honesty—fuels the creation of work with emotional and comedic resonance. Key insights include the role of action in happiness, the necessity of becoming vulnerable to connect artistically, and the ongoing quest to understand and express what it means to be a good human. Both Holmes and Rogen model a humor that’s as much about self-exploration as it is about getting laughs, making this episode a time capsule of candid wisdom for anyone fascinated by comedy, creativity, or the human experience.

Transcript

[A]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh yeah, you made it weird. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening weirdos? This is a re release because it's fun to listen to the same episode the same week. So we're all going to do it together. Of Seth Rogen, one of my favorite guests, one of my favorite comedians, one of my favorite actors who has a new show called the Studio that is on Apple TV right now. I don't watch, I'm kind of, you know, I watch the AAA tv, the really, really, really, really good stuff. And the Studio is a must watch. It is a masterpiece. I don't know if you've heard about it. It's deeply hilarious but it's also just technically impressive. So much of the show is shot as one shot oners as they're called in the biz. But, but it's acting and it's writing. Everything about it, the music, it's a perfect show. Check out the Studio on Apple tv. We're re releasing this episode because it's the summer and it's fun and it's. Seth, come on. Amazing. So we don't have much new to add other than oh, do keep in mind it was recorded in 2017 so the people in this conversation don't know what the people in 2025 know. So please be sensitive to that. This is a throwback, it's a time capsule. We listen to it, it's awesome. But just keep in mind this is 2017. As you listen. A couple things to plug go to PeteHomes.com for my tour, Irvine, California is coming up followed by San Jose, followed by Los Angeles, Houston, Royal Oak, Michigan, Washington, D.C. boston, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Spokane, Washington, St. Louis, Missouri, Cleveland, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Atlantic City. And we're going to be adding New York any minute now. As I've been saying for weeks, all of those will be on petehomes.com this epis, like so many others, is brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. This is a magic mind. Holding it right here, it's like creator aid. Athletes have Gatorade. Creators now have creator aid. It is matcha. So there's about as much caffeine as half a cup of coffee. It's got nootropics which is earth grown ingredients that help you focus and concentrate. And it has adaptogens which help you calm down. It is fighting off procrastination, fights off brain fog, fights off symptoms of addiction. I absolutely love it. Before I do stand Up. I always take one before I write. I always do one. And before I do a podcast like this one, I always drink magic mind 15 minutes before. It is a total, total game changer. I absolutely love it. Get 30% more done on average. It's like five to seven hours of 30% more productivity. Imagine what you could do with that. And it doesn't get you jittery. It gets you dialed in. It's basically flow state in a bottle. And I want you to try it. We have a special offer. Go to magicmind.com weird and use promo COD weird at checkout magicmind co. I think you can also do.commagicmind co and use promo code weird for 20% off your first order. That's it, everybody. Here's a classic episode. Seth Rogen. Check out the studio. Get into it. I remember before I had ever smoked pot. Welcome to the show, by the way.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

We can talk. Let's talk about the room. I'm so honored you're here.

[A]

I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

[B]

I was saying when you pulled up, I always.

[A]

Finally, I'm on a podcast.

[B]

Do you not do podcasts?

[A]

No, I've done a couple.

[B]

I forget who made the joke, but it is the LA equivalent of, will you drive me to the airport?

[A]

Yeah, I actually. I always like talking to people, but I've realized slowly that, like, after what I do all day, the last thing I want to do is listen to two comedians talk to one another. Because that's what I do all day. You know, I wonder, listen to comedians talk to one another.

[B]

I wonder if you ever felt this way too. This is such a up my own ass thought, why are my earphones going? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, there it is. It was just. It was the hardware. This is something I would never. I probably even shouldn't say this, but sometimes when you're acting, do you ever, like, finish acting and then someone comes up? I'm not talking about a stranger. A friend comes up and they're like, hey, man, how you doing? And you're like, I've been emoting all day. You know, does that make any sense?

[A]

It does. It's. Yeah. I don't emote that much when I act, so I've seen other actors experience that and I understand. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I'm aware that I'm full of. Full of shit in that situation. And I've never been like, back off. But I'm like, that's strange. We're kind of acting all day and then when you're acting in a thing you do get tired of. Like my routine when we were doing. When Jen and I were doing the show in New York was I'd come home at like 8 o', clock, have like one glass of wine and go to sleep. Like that's all I could do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have to imagine you've done that ad nauseam.

[A]

I read in Sidney Lumet's book about filmmaking, which is the most pretentious way to start. Maybe if you were making a list that would be high on the list. It wouldn't be. It's right under. I heard. I was listening to NPR and I heard.

[B]

I heard Zinle.

[A]

That's the peak.

[B]

Should I know this book? I don't know this book.

[A]

It's a great book. It's probably one of the most like user friendly books about filmmaking. What's it called? It's called like Making Movies. I think it's called. If you can't remember the name exactly. I think that's what it's called. You can check there's human here who could look but in it. Which is. I remember at the time thinking it was a weird thing to write in a book about making movies. But he says while he's making a movie, he doesn't go out. And he says that, like, I don't. He's like, I don't go out for dinner when I'm making a movie. It's like, I don't see friends. It's like I stay home. And I remember at the time being like, oh, good. Cause I just don't go out much in general.

[B]

So they're hooking the. Well, maybe we have that in common. I like the structure of performing. If it's line performing or something you're shooting. I like that you kind of know the rules. You show up and you perform. And it's not inappropriate or weird that you're making jokes or pretending. But then the rest of the time I do kind of like to. It's like an introverted extrovert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you ever heard that?

[A]

I have heard that. Yeah. Yeah. And I just like to sit around at home and do nothing alone. So that's kind of just what I'm working towards at all times. How do I get home to do nothing? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's a tricky thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially. Well, it's actually kind of the golden age of that.

[A]

It is the golden age of doing nothing. But I've actually reached a startling realization recently, which is I like doing things, which is a Weird thing. As someone who's always identified as doing. Likes doing nothing, I've slowly had to accept that I like doing things, which is. It's a weird realization to.

[B]

I'm right there with you. Because what is it? At a certain point, not doing something starts to feel a certain way.

[A]

I just don't know what to. I just. And I. And then I start to realize, like, I'm just happier when I'm doing things. Yeah. And I. And I have to accept that.

[B]

I was actually just thinking about that Judd. I know he's a friend of ours in common. Obviously.

[A]

He is.

[B]

He is a good friend in that he'll be like, why aren't we doing shows? Let's go do a show. You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, I should go. And then I go do a show with him, and then I'm happier.

[A]

And he's probably the first guy I knew that was always doing things. He does things. And at that. When we. When I first met him, I did not like doing things, and I thought he was fucking psychotic for wanting to do things all the time. But now, as I've gotten older, I'm like, oh, he's. He's. I'm getting there. I want to do things right. I want to go out and I want to do it.

[B]

You need to.

[A]

I'm happy when I'm doing things right. Yeah. When I'm. Yeah.

[B]

Well, your brain is right. I like to say paranoid people are correct. Sometimes I watch, like, my. It's not my strange addiction. It's like my weird phobia or something.

[A]

All great things.

[B]

And they're like, I'm afraid that my refrigerator is going to fall through the floor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, you live in California. There could also be a huge earthquake or your heart could stop or you could have an aneurysm. So my therapist likes to say that paranoid people are correct. And similarly, your brain is correct when it's like, stay at home. This is something that Johnny Pemberton said on our thing. It's the correct temperature.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's food.

[A]

Yeah. It's everything.

[B]

There's entertainment. There's information.

[A]

I feel very secure and safe in my home.

[B]

But we need to, like, pull Volt over that correctness and realize that adventure actually is better than just having your needs met.

[A]

Well, it's also good because I have a job that forces me to do a lot of stuff. This is why we're lucky.

[B]

I feel.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I haven't been doing shows, and I.

[A]

Just don't go out. I have to try. I live in three different cities in a given year, which I would never choose to do in a quadrillion years. But it's really good. It's probably good for me to go live in Atlanta, New Orleans and San Francisco and Albuquerque and to see what it's like and meet people and talk to people. Yeah. And again, it's something that every shred of my fiber does not want to be doing. But then once I'm doing it, I enjoy it and I look back and I think, you know, when I'm on a podcast one day it'll make me sound like a more interesting.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

I've lived in all these different cities for periods of time, which is the goal. Exactly.

[B]

It's all about perception. Yeah. I do a bit about that where I open and I kind of talk about this Pemberton. The point that he and I made together, it was like, oh, we've done it. We've gotten out of the house. And I was like, when we're old, we can look back and say, I did things.

[A]

Exactly. That's all that matters. Yeah, we can say that anyway.

[B]

But we can't say that. We've already done enough stuff to do.

[A]

Stuff to say it. Yeah, well, you're not Just make shit up, which a lot of old people do.

[B]

They realize no one.

[A]

Yeah, no one's watching. I was raised on lies.

[B]

Oh, my God. I just spent Christmas with my family and I wrote down Pete, like, something to read when I'm a dad and an older man. You might be wrong.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I listened to my father and my older brother have an argument about whether or not it was my brother in a photograph that my father.

[A]

That's funny. Are you married?

[B]

I'm not married, but I live with my girlfriend.

[A]

I gotcha. Well, when. Yeah, as a married person, I know that I am wrong. I don't need a constant reminder that I might be wrong.

[B]

You married one.

[A]

I'm acutely aware that she's constantly telling.

[B]

What are you wrong about? Give me an example of wrongness.

[A]

So much stuff is this good.

[B]

It keeps you in check. Are you the sort of person.

[A]

I mean, one of the most critic. I remember early in our relationship, I was driving and I clipped in other cars, like, mirror with my mirror that was parked and, like, my first instinct was to just, like, go, like. Just, like fucking, like, bail as fast as possible. She's like, no, like, you have to go back and stop and leave a note on that person's car. And if you broke their shit, you have to pay for it. And I was like, oh, I was wrong. Yeah. That was like every bad instinct that a person could have. And I had all those instincts.

[B]

But your wife is a creative type as well. And I wondered if maybe you guys were just similar people that were going around being wrong in the same ways.

[A]

I'm sure we are in a lot of ways. That doesn't mean we don't also have ways that the other person is. She's also wrong a lot.

[B]

So how long have you been married?

[A]

I've been married for five years, but we've been together for 12 years.

[B]

Isn't that annoying?

[A]

Yeah, it's long.

[B]

Like, I just know.

[A]

I didn't know I have to reset that. You reset the together clock? Yeah. There's two together. It's true. Especially if I waited so long that for that one reason, it makes me wish that I had gotten married much closer to when we started dating. So I could say, like, oh, yeah, we've been together. I should just say, I've been married for 12 years.

[B]

We've been together for 12. Val and I have been together for four years. And if we get married next year, you reset it. We're like, we've been together six months.

[A]

Oh, newlywed. Yeah, I know, exactly. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, no, I fart on the regular. Loud and proud in front of this woman.

[A]

Yeah, it's true.

[B]

That is not a new thing.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

But I thought my dad could use some regulating. There's something about a witness. You know what I mean? Someone else that's with you that goes, hey, I've noticed this horrible trait about you or whatever, and I think my dad just stopped listening to anyone because my. He was saying to my brother, this is you in the photograph. And my brother was like, I know the photo you're talking about, not me. That was my friend Michael. He's like, no, no, it was you. And then I watched my dad start lying. He'd be like, no, no, no. And my dad, my brother was like, yeah, I'm in the middle of two guys and we're wearing baseball hats. That's not me. He's like, no, no, you weren't in the middle. You were on the dad.

[A]

He was spinning it.

[B]

Just say, it's imp. You're from Vancouver.

[A]

I am.

[B]

I'm from Boston. I don't know what Vancouver is like, but there's a certain breed of stubbornness that Boston has a Vancouver does not have corner on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is going on. Tell me about that. There's a. I just watched Take this Waltz, which is filmed.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no, no, that's from Toronto.

[B]

Oh, excuse me.

[A]

No, it's okay.

[B]

I've made the mistake.

[A]

No, a lot of people do. And I understand. I don't assume Americans know anything.

[B]

I've been to Vancouver. It looks like. It looks like Mega City One.

[A]

It does look like a very futuristic.

[B]

It's got something. It's beautiful.

[A]

It's got big. Lots of glass. Yeah. It didn't look like that when I was growing up.

[B]

They're those building. You know what I'm talking about? They're these buildings downtown that kind of.

[A]

Look like monolithic, futuristic glass buildings.

[B]

And then you also have a church that's like 3 million years old.

[A]

Yeah, there's also. There's a mix of. Yeah, it's. I don't know. It's a nice city. It's what I. What I've realized more.

[B]

You don't have cold, angry old people.

[A]

We do. Yeah. Yeah. I was. My grandparents were two of them. But. But I think Canadians in general are maybe a little more. I mean, Boston people are known for being.

[B]

No, please, pile it on.

[A]

What are Boston people known for?

[B]

Being angry. Racist.

[A]

Yeah. Vancouver people are not known for being.

[B]

Stubborn, too. Yeah, there's something about that. Like, wrongness is weakness. And my dad's made a lot of progress. I love my dad, but I don't think he knows how impressed his sons would be if he just said, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I feel like shit. I thought that was you.

[A]

What a dope I am. Canadians are okay admitting that they're wrong and apologize. Yes.

[B]

I think maybe. Is that a stereotype that Canadians have? Is that, like, stubborn, bullheaded, like, never wrong? Like Donald Trump, essentially?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sort of mutated. There's something in Trump in all of the men I've known growing up that's sort of like.

[A]

Not all of them. Yeah, but it's an American phenomenon from my experience. Yeah. Largely.

[B]

So the stereotype of Canada being friendly. No one has a gun. The great Kids in the hall joke.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Like an American without a gun.

[A]

Yeah. It's similar. Kids in the hall is a very good representation of Canada, honestly. Like, it really is. It actually is. Like, it very. It really subs. If you were very familiar with Kids in the hall, then, you know, probably have a very good sense of what really Canadian people are like. Okay, I get into that. It's weird. They're very. It's like a weird sensibility. It's kind of quirky. It's nice.

[B]

It seems like this sort of sense of humor I'm projecting here, but it seems like the sort of. It's, like, camp sense of humor.

[A]

Yeah. Kind of weird inside.

[B]

Bored groups of children.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would get together and come up with a joke about a sketch about a guy who doesn't speak English, has memorized a series of phrases.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, but when you're, like, a Canadian kid who's into comedy, Kids in the hall is, like, as good as it gets. But also, like, they just seem so cool. Like, the opening. I remember the opening credits of that. Yeah. Show was them, like, being cool, which is like. Which is like. If you're a kid who's in a comedy is like, not something that's really even on the menu. And then you see, like. Oh, these are like, you know, like, kind of countercultural guys, like, openly weirdo guys in, like, the late 80s.

[B]

I don't say weirdo.

[A]

No. Yeah. No, but, like, people who. Yeah. Like, would generally not be accepted by the mainstream, doing, like, the weirdest shit ever, and they were fucking cool as hell.

[B]

But here we are now. I think about this all the time. I try not to freak out about it, but it's like, we are in this absurd. It's your fantasy come true. It's my fantasy come true. It's certainly Judd's fantasy come true that comedy has become like rock and roll. It's like, oh, you have that album.

[A]

Yeah. You have that.

[B]

You're aware of who that person is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You go to an award show and Kevin Hart is in the second row behind Jack Nicholson. It's like, what's going on here?

[A]

I think that was. We won. It's been like that for a. I mean, it has. Yeah. It's been like that for a long time.

[B]

But that's what freaks me out, is that I think we might. What. We might be on the end of it or whatever, like, what happened in the 80s. But I'm like, when will good, funny, true things not be relevant? So I don't.

[A]

I don't worry about it. No. They'll just be on streaming services. Right.

[B]

There's a lot of that.

[A]

That's all of it. That's all it is.

[B]

It'll be something on your watch.

[A]

It just won't be in movie theaters. Yeah.

[B]

Well, is that over? I worry about that. By the way, this isn't me talking.

[A]

To you, movie star. We're just. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I mean. Yeah. As a Guy.

[B]

I mean, two guys talking.

[A]

Yeah, just two guys shooting the shit in the weird little room. Top of a comic book. Yeah. I used to come by comic books at this store all the time. I'm very familiar.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We were actually just talking about the time we saw Kanye west at this. At this.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I run into Jeff Garland here all the time.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

And then we engage in the loudest huskiest voice conversation of all time that people, people assume we're shooting an episode of Curb youb. But I don't know, I think movie. I look back at our movies, movies we've made that came out in theaters and I think now today it'd be hard to get those movies in theaters.

[B]

Like simpler concept movies. Is that what you mean?

[A]

Yeah. Like, I question if like Superbad would like get a big theatrical release right today. Like. Yeah. Would it be more like the age of 17 or something like that? Like, would it be like, oh, it's about 18 year olds. Like it's an R rated movie.

[B]

Well, in a comic book shop.

[A]

No. Yeah. So that's what I think about again, like just our comedy is going to be in theaters. That's, that's my. As far as my thoughts go as I look back at our own movies and I think, like, it'd be hard to get those. That in the field.

[B]

Well, look at the interview. Right. That was a movie that exploded On Demand. You guys made an.

[A]

By accident.

[B]

But I paid.

[A]

Yeah, it did.

[B]

I paid $20.

[A]

I think it's the highest. I think it's one of the highest gross. Focusing On Demand. Yeah, but it kind of.

[B]

I know that had its own thing going.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. It is in no way analogous to anything else that I hope that I think will ever happen. Right. So it's kind of like it's a tough example because it, you know, it's not that it had so many things around surrounding it that like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, I. To point at that and be like, that did really well. On Demand. It's hard to say because it had a full like theatrical promotion behind it. True. Up until the last minute. And it also was like one of the biggest news stories in the world for like two weeks. Right. Which also, you know, probably bolstered people's desire to see it at least, which.

[B]

Is in the way that seasons of TV drop. It seems kind of preposterous to let's do an episode of Black Mirror right now. Are people just streaming movies on their huge projections in their houses? Like, it just feels like yeah, exactly. That might be where we're going, which I would say is a shame. I don't know if you're familiar with old Joseph Campbell, are you?

[A]

Yeah, I am. Sure.

[B]

I love Joey cams, and he talks about how going to the movies is like going to church. It's a cathedral.

[A]

Well, I do think it'll keep happening. And I do think, like, comedies will keep coming out in theaters. I think it'll be harder and harder. I almost think it'll be good in a way, because I think it'll force people to be more creative. I think the types of movies that are doing well theatrically that are comedies are the ones that are more original and that are bigger swings and the exact opposite of that. But those two are working right down the middle. Line drives that just have that magical mixture of cast and concept that's just so simple that it couldn't miss. And things that are huge swings that could be disastrous.

[B]

Sausage Party is a big swing, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah, huge swing. And I think that worked. I think something like Deadpool was like, a big swing, you know, and.

[B]

And those both were huge, right?

[A]

Yeah, and those both are really big. And then things again, I haven't seen it. I can't speak to how good it is, but something like central intelligence, which seems a little bit more maybe down the middle. It's like, what if these guys were spies? And it's like PG13. And that also does very well, you know? And then it's things, you know, that, again, looked funny. Like this Office Christmas Party. Again, a movie I've not seen, but I watched the commercials. Like, that looks funny. The cast is funny. It has a lot of people I think are funny. And I think it probably didn't do as well as those people had hoped because it wasn't like either one of those.

[B]

It's like the marvelization of things when you. That's what I was saying. Like, we're in a comic book store. And I'm guilty of really enjoying a.

[A]

Good Captain America picture. Oh, me too. Yeah.

[B]

But I like it. And I get that we want more of a spectacle. This is the IMAX 3D.

[A]

Yeah. And I think. But I think it's. Again, I think it'll push what it's doing right now to people, to me personally, is forcing me, as we are sitting down to write our next comedy movies. It's forcing us to really push ourselves to justify its existence, not only as a movie, but as a movie that we want to be in a movie theater. And that's two different criteria. Whereas when we first started making movies, we only had one. And not every movie we're making has both those criteria, obviously. And we have ideas that were completely comfortable just being like, we'll put that on Netflix. And it's not a movie that is just.

[B]

We'll take this wall. This is not a high movie.

[A]

Yeah. It's not a movie that needs to be in a movie theater. But. But me and Evan like having movies in theaters. We agree with Mr. Joseph Campbell that it's a wonderful experience. And I said my own pretend. We, you know, so. But as we are approaching our. Our new movies that we're writing, the. That's a major conversation is like, what makes this a movie that you have to see? We think you have to see.

[B]

Well, remember Borat, Bruno, those movies where you're like, holy. I know you wrote for Ali G, so you probably know these guys, but it's like, oh, that's a spectacle. It's like a must see. I don't want to be left out and.

[A]

Cause at the time it was so new also. It was such an original thing, you know? Exactly. And I think there's some things where just in order to be part of the cultural conversation, you want to go see the thing so you can talk to people at your work and shit like that.

[B]

It's like being behind on a Netflix.

[A]

So when everyone's joking about fucking the thing in Deadpool, you're not the asshole who doesn't. Who never. Who didn't see it. Which I was. Because I didn't see it till way after it came out. Yeah, exactly. Fuck, I'll get into this Deadpool shit.

[B]

Well, there is something on our side. I'm just talking about comedy as our side, being that you can have a 3D shield flying at you, but you also, like, things are so much funnier with the audience there. That's a real. I had Larry Charles on this podcast and we. He said his hardest laugh. It's a question I like to ask. A time they laughed really hard was watching Borat in the theaters with the dicks blurred out.

[A]

That's funny. And I was like, his own movie.

[B]

His own movie. And I agreed. I was like, that's one of my hardest laughs. And I remember turning behind me to just look. It turned like a. Like a not that cool rowdy crowd into like, madness.

[A]

Yeah, well, honestly, it's the only way I know how to write a movie is considering what it's doing to a theater full of people. Like, that's how that's like how me and Evan talk about it is like we talk about the audience a lot and how it's gonna make them feel and how we want them to be feeling and what they expect to happen versus what we make happen and how we want them to be on edge and how we want to be uncomfortable and how. And how we want it to, you know, just explode in this moment and. And I think, like, that's something that. Yeah, I have a hard time wrapping my head around again for a movie that's goal is to just like destroy or to really, you know, I think horror movie. I love horror movies and like suspense movies. And I think that is a similar thing as comedy. Right. It's really like playing the audience.

[B]

Watching the OA by any chance?

[A]

No, I haven't watched it.

[B]

It's very tense in that good way. Oh, and so is your boy Franco's 11 22.

[A]

I haven't watched that either, but I.

[B]

Was very good in that tense way.

[A]

Yeah, I love tense, but like the.

[B]

Movie, it's best when it's tense.

[A]

But like, some of my favorite movies this year were Green Room, which was very tense.

[B]

Yeah, Green room was great.

[A]

10 Cloverfield Lane I thought was great.

[B]

His hand.

[A]

Oh, it's so fucked up. And I thought there was another. Really.

[B]

10 Cloverfield Lane was also great. So you like Misery, you like thrillers.

[A]

But to me, it becomes comedic. It is funny, you know, it is funny. Misery's funny. And. And I think the. I've talked. I mean, you know, those filmmakers are very. Again, they, you know, Don't Breathe was one of my favorite movies of the whole year. I loved that movie.

[B]

That was just a straight horror movie though, right?

[A]

It's more.

[B]

I don't want to.

[A]

It's not just a straight horror movie.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm gonna write. Not at all. It's much more in the world of a green room and tin Cloverfield.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, I'm gonna watch it.

[A]

And you know, I think those filmmakers talk a lot about the audience. And I remember, like, one of the things I. You know, I remember when I first started doing standup, which I don't do anymore, but I remember one of the comedians giving me advice which I often could use. And I remember he said, stand up comedy isn't a monologue, it's a dialogue. Yeah. It's not just talking, it's you listening to the audience and responding, you know, And I think movies can't literally do that, but need to present the illusion that that's happening.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They need to. It needs to feel as though there's a direct interplay between the theater and what's happening on the screen, which is.

[B]

Actually why it's a little bit different. The timing is different. If you took the laughs out of a standup act, he'd be pausing too long.

[A]

Yeah. It'd be weird. Yeah.

[B]

There's film comedy time.

[A]

And we actually used to, like, cut more to laughs. And there are some times where we have to, like, just a tiny bit, but, like, just to clear out air.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. But it. We try not to too much, honestly. Well, it's funny.

[B]

Kumail. You know Kumail?

[A]

I do, yeah.

[B]

He's just. He's making the Big Sick, which is a movie that I'm very excited about. And they would go to screenings and they'd be like, they're laughing during the best line.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Cut to some random line. But if you watch that movie alone, you're like, why is there no.

[A]

And we stopped doing that. Like, I'd rather, you know, we start and it's great. And again, it's not like this only happens with our movies that are actually very funny. And it's great that more recently, though, in the best case scenario, something we've been hearing is like, I couldn't hear a lot of the lines because of the laughter. And I'd rather hear that than. I watched it at home. And there were these really weird long pauses, and the timing was bizarre, you know? Cause people are.

[B]

They get a relationship with it. I don't want to butter your bread too hard, but the Night before is one of our Christmas movies now.

[A]

Oh, that's so nice.

[B]

And we've watched it. Valerie and I have watched it many times, and it's excellent. And you pick up. People have different relationships with movies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For sure. Than we used to. Now you own them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's a season for them. In this case, it's a holiday movie. And you watch and you see and you're like, I didn't even notice that the first time.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's super fun. Yeah. I think that, like, it's fun. I think, like, I remember we did it like, I mean, on 40 Old Virgil. I remember, like, a screening where we did that, and then we watched it in the editing room after. We were just like, it's weird, like, what happened to this movie? Like, and then we fixed it, you.

[B]

Know, it got ruined. Waiting for laughs.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We, like. We were so enamored with the laughs that we were like, oh, clear. Out room there. Clear out room there. They're still laughing.

[B]

Clear out room.

[A]

Clear out room. And then you got a lot of room. Too much room. Too much room. Too much room.

[B]

But that's something that still actually freaks me out when I sometimes give other standups, advice. And the advice is, when would you laugh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't that just the scariest? It's the most on point. You know what I mean? It's like, when would you laugh? Show me your act. You're in the audience. When do you laugh?

[A]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, that's exactly how we.

[B]

It's so scary.

[A]

And that's what we think of, if we were in the theater, how would we be feeling?

[B]

Right.

[A]

How do we want to be feeling? We want to laugh. Do we want to feel suspense? Do we want to be grossed out? Do we want.

[B]

Did you see Tarantino's. Him and Fiona Apple did an episode of Iconoclasts.

[A]

No.

[B]

It's a great series. I think you would love it.

[A]

But I've seen him speak.

[B]

You've seen Tarantino speak?

[A]

I've seen him speak.

[B]

Maybe he made this point. He's kind of talking about the old Abbott and Costello, Frankenstein movies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was like, I've just never seen a movie that could do everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he's like, I'm scared when it wants me to be scared. And then I'm laughing, laughing, laughing really, really, really hard.

[A]

Yeah, I remember when. And that's actually something that we've been trying to do more of. Like, I think this is the end was probably, like the first experiment in it. I remember we did a friends and family screening, and I think it was Man Sukis or someone saying, like. Like, you guys are, like, really underestimating your ability to scare people with this movie. Like, he's like, I think you just, like, it's funny, but he's like, there's parts where it doesn't have to be.

[B]

This is.

[A]

This is funny. You could just scare the shit out of people. Yeah. Yeah. And we start to get into that. And then.

[B]

I want to see the horror cut.

[A]

Yeah, there was. But then we start to realize that even for brief moments, we could build up the tension more. And then when it became when a joke happened, people laughed that much harder if we just held off on a joke.

[B]

I was scared of Danny McBride.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I didn't like his.

[A]

You don't like it?

[B]

He has a secret. His face says, I have a secret.

[A]

He's a little scary. But no, it was like, it was and then when we started doing, you know, more dramatic, you know, preacher, you know, it was, you know, we could commit fully to kind of.

[B]

And was that fun?

[A]

Disregarding jokes? Yeah.

[B]

Are you gonna make the full dramatic turn? I hate to interview like this in Entertainment Weekly.

[A]

I don't think.

[B]

I'm curious if you've done it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Take this waltz was very touching. It was beautiful.

[A]

It was. But I think. And as an actor, it's fun. But I think as like a director, writer, it's.

[B]

You're still in.

[A]

I think it's more genre. Like, I don't think humor has to be the thing that we're always going for at all times, but I think some real reaction, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Be it terror or suspense or.

[B]

Right. You know, you're going for some sort of roller coaster feel.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Not a subtle.

[A]

No cafe.

[B]

Embarrassed.

[A]

I think. Like, I mean, but that's. I think. And that's. These are the conversations we talk about of, like, why it's in a movie theater. Like, why go to a room full of 300 people to watch a cafe in Paris? Right. If you're in a movie theater, you can get paying money. If you actually are going to get out of the house and go, well.

[B]

Sausage party was that thing, the last scene.

[A]

You have to see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think that, that those are the reasons that again, for the type of movies me and Evan are talking about making now. It's like, you know, how. Why is it the type of thing that when you walk out of that theater, you're like, wow, thank God I paid for that. And now I'm gonna tell everyone I know to pay for that. Because, like, it was like an exhilarating experience. You know, it's not something that would have just happened at home. Right. And yeah. And I think that it wasn't just.

[B]

As funny as my friend Steve.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Nothing against Steve. He's probably amazing.

[B]

I'm glad you're aware. Cause I grew up evangelical Christian, so when I saw, he'd say, of course. So when I saw this is the end, I was like, how did these non evangelical Christians nail my concerns?

[A]

Yeah, I really did.

[B]

And the dicks. I know people probably talked about the dicks on the demons quite a bit, but also it was so viscerally scary to me. And then also the comedians sitting around going like, we make people's lives better.

[A]

That felt very real. Justification. That felt very real to me. We're good people.

[B]

Isn't there something. Do you ever catch yourself in bed or you Wake up at four in the morning and you're just kind of a little raw, a little vulnerable and you're like, no, man, I bring joy to people's lives. I know, it's a little gauche.

[A]

No, I don't. You don't? I get very. No, I was actually just thinking at the end, like, literally a girl, there's a lovely woman, walked up to me and was like, I'm a huge fan of your work. And I walked and like, I was kind of in a shitty mood. And I like 10 seconds later I was like, I'm still in an exact same shitty mood that I was like. And I took note of the fact that it in no way made me happier in any way. So why comedy?

[B]

Why does comedy have its nice. I think it's not adoration.

[A]

Yeah, it is. It probably is in some capacity. Like, I think I like.

[B]

Well, talk about maybe when you started doing stand up at bar mitzvahs and camp and stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was the urge? I was, I was a pudgy.

[A]

I'm not saying you were, but I was.

[B]

I was a soft 13 year old.

[A]

When did you. How old were you when you started doing stand up comedy? Comedy.

[B]

I didn't start Till I was 20.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was young. It is. Yeah, it's young. But I started doing like improv in sixth grade, seventh grade.

[A]

Did your high school have an improv team?

[B]

They did, yeah. And my, My college, I started one. I was there when it was started. I didn't really start, but like. So improv was a big thing for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it really. The reason I said going back to doing things. Doing things reduces my anxiety.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doing this podcast reduces my anxiety.

[A]

I agree. I was kind of. That, I think is something that I for sure had is I was kind of like an. I had a lot of anxiety as a kid. Yeah.

[B]

I had a bald spot on the side of my head because I was so.

[A]

I know I didn't have that. I had a bald spot on the side of my head. You were like Haley Joel Osmond in the Sixth Sense. Level of anxiety, seeing dead people.

[B]

I was having a hard time. No, but and then like. Because I didn't have anywhere to put it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what did anxiety.

[A]

It was a very similar thing. Yeah. I was just, I think I was just very aware that like, I needed to do something with my life. And like, I. I feel like I felt that weight from a very young age of like, from where? From who? I have no idea. Because my parents. It probably like was a reaction to my parents who like never really had or when I was young anyway, like didn't really have careers per se and kind of like didn't have jobs that were high paying at all.

[B]

Your mom was a social worker?

[A]

Well, when I was young my mom was a cashier and then like at a, at like a woodwork, like a department store. Ok. My dad worked in the game room of a vocational college. Like, and so like, like you don't want to tell me what they did? Yeah, exactly. Like they're literally. Yes. No, those were their jobs. Like they had like the most like regular like, because they were like regular like unambitious people in their 20s jobs. And then like I remember when my mom like graduated from school and got her like degree in social work. And then, then my mom became a social worker and my dad started working at non profits and stuff. So they always had very like they were very like socially conscious and socially aware. But like I think maybe like I was concerned about money or something like that.

[B]

I was also freaked out a little bit. I knew that there was like I'm getting that weird thing, my mic again. That there was a stress. Like I went to private school and I remember very distinctly thinking like, like can we afford this school?

[A]

I grew up with a lot of rich kids and that made me parent. Yeah.

[B]

But I was like based on the arguments I'm definitely overhearing, I don't think we can afford these. I opted to go to public school because I was like, I can see the stresses of putting on the family and I think that's where comedy started to come out.

[A]

But my parents weren't stressed about it. Cause it's so funny. I talked to Judd about it. Featuring Ned Flanders. I know. No, my dad's just like very mellow and like picture more like Rob Robert Reiner. Like it's, it's a little more like that. Like, like. And it's funny because like yeah, like it wasn't, it wasn't like the dark version of it. My parents were, they never talked about money. Like it wasn't a big, it wasn't like a big stress on the family. Like we drive from Vancouver to LA and go to Disneyland. So like I felt like I got to go on vacations, you know, like it wasn't this stressful environment. It was almost like as I got older I was like, oh, I have less money than every single person I know. Yeah.

[B]

So it was more your social group that inform for sure.

[A]

100 maybe. Maybe.

[B]

Are you competitive?

[A]

No, not at all. And that's the other thing. I don't like sports. I hate sports. Me too.

[B]

I don't like. I think it's mean to punch someone.

[A]

Else in the face.

[B]

Even if you call it boxer.

[A]

I really think it's. Don't do that. No, I don't. Yeah, I hate that I played rugby. One of the best jokes, this comic, Jamie Hutcher, Jamie Hutchinson was a comic that did stand up when I was young in Vancouver. And he had a joke that I applied almost every sport situation in life. And his joke was like, I wanted to be a boxer until I fought a guy who really wanted to be a boxer. And like that to me was just like the blueprint for everything ever. And it's like I played rugby in high school until I started playing people who really wanted to play rugby. And I was like, this is just fun to me. And now it's not fun because these guys, like really are into this.

[B]

I would win the battle. Like I'd shoot a layup and that would have been the winning point. And I wasn't aware that we were even close to the end.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

That was me. And then I was happy. We could eat ice cream and talk again.

[A]

Exactly. We could talk again. Yeah. Why are we doing this? Yeah.

[B]

So you're not competitive. But that's like me, I'm not competitive in that way.

[A]

But there has to be, I think I just honestly something that goes, I'm.

[B]

Going to take this the distance.

[A]

I liked. I like the idea of like, this is the lamest answer ever. And it's the thing that I come back. It's funny because I kind of worked backwards recently in my life from like just self analyzation of like what gets me the most stressed out in my work. And the answer I arrived at is when I felt like someone was ruining the thing we were doing and I. And my expression was gonna be misrepresented somehow. And that people were not creative. Yes, exactly. And that people were gonna see the thing that was my. That was supposed to be me. And this has happened to me several times, many times. Think people would see the thing that was supposed to be my creative, you know, the encapsulation of my sensibilities and what I think is interesting and what I think people should be thinking about and talking about and what I personally am passionate about. And when it started to seem like people were gonna fuck with that, that was the thing that I would go a little crazy on. Yeah. And so I've realized that. Which is very helpful. And you know, and now that I know that that's just the thing to look out for, it actually happens less and less up your shit. And because that's the thing now that gets me so stressed, I think that's the thing that probably made me want to do it in the first place, was I liked the idea of, as lame as it sounds, like, expressing myself, of, like, being able to. I don't think that's. Stand up on stage and tell jokes that made people laugh, but also made them understand my perspective on things.

[B]

Well, have you taken. Have you taken mushrooms?

[A]

Yeah, like, 200 times. That's so funny. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't want to assume.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The most recent time I took mushrooms or. It's a feeling I get every time I've taken mushrooms is like, oh, my God, it's such a. Something is so profoundly happening inside of you. And then you go, like, how do I explain?

[A]

You're always trying to explain it to people. You're always trying to explain how you feel.

[B]

And Valerie said to me was like, we're all tripping all of the time. Obviously, we're not, like, tripping like mushrooms, but we're all having a trip.

[A]

No, it's true.

[B]

And we're to going. And that's. And I've made this point on the podcast before, so I'll put it to you. It's like, that's why you paint a house. You go, when I look over there, I see this. And I go, yeah, it's. It's white and there's green grass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it looks beautiful, kind of harrowing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's. That's one of the necessities of life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is being heard, being seen.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that is what drew me to it in the first place, is I would see. I just always loved movies. And then I think that you, like, I started doing sound. I was 13, basically, and I started writing, trying to write movies when I was around that age. And I literally. I think I remember, like, seeing. My parents just loved movies. I remember watching movies like Back to the Future and Isn't it fun?

[B]

Movies can transcend the parent thing. Like things you could never enjoy together, but now you're watching and it's like, everybody's together.

[A]

Oh, no, they love. Yeah. We always like the same movies.

[B]

My parents.

[A]

Yeah. Like, that was never like.

[B]

Like, see, I'm imposing my goyish.

[A]

No, it's true. Like, my mom's favorite movie is Die Hard. Like, no way. And Total Recall is, like, her second favorite movie. Yeah. Like, and those were like the movies that I would watch growing up. And I love them. Oh my God. And they also love like Woody Allen. So we'd watch a lot of like.

[B]

Woody Allen movies in the basement.

[A]

Yeah. Oh yeah. They loved it. And it was like, if anything, like, it was uncomfortable because like a lot of movies they liked, like, you know, sexual situation, like watching like Hannah and her sisters or a three booed alien with your parents is awkward, but the.

[B]

Middle one's the fake.

[A]

Exactly. I don't know. I think it's just a flat chested woman. But I think, I think I just like the idea of like, I just got, I think from a young age I was just like, oh, I get this, like people are. This is what people think is interesting. People are like exploring these relationships and these ideas and like, and I understand, understand, you know, these people, even though I didn't know who they were. I would remember like Billy Crystal, like watching a stand up special of him in Russia. It was like one of his early. The first time he went to Russia. He'll probably be going back now, but. And I remember like, it was so interesting because it was like informing you about a culture. And it was like this weird like divide where they were talking. Like, it was like, it kind of was like a cultural commentary and it was funny. And I was incredibly young when I was watching this, but I remember that kind of making an impression on me. And so I think that's what I liked about it.

[B]

And that's what celebrating someone for saying, here's what it feels like to be me. Yeah, that's as good as it gets. There's a quote of yours on the Wikipedia pages. Like, once I found out you could be funny for a living, that's all I wanted to do. And I was like, it's also not just being funny, but when you get someone to laugh. Yeah, they're making an involuntary noise. It's like, I get it. We call it getting. I see you and I've been there.

[A]

Yeah. And I think now, as you know, we. I've started making more and more movies and we've made a lot of people laugh over the years. It, it's starting to feel like, what else can we do? Can we make them scared? Can we make them sad? Can we make them, you know, confused and then feel as though they've put some, solved a puzzle? You know, what other things can we make people experience? All in the pursuit of just trying to get across the things that we think are interesting. I think that's what we've gotten better and better at over the years is taking, you know, the ideas. I think we did it very involuntarily well when we were younger. And then you go through a phase where you're kind of. It's like the second album syndrome, where you're trying, like, you're trying to understand what you did. And now you know that I'm just old. I think I understand more, like, what you need to do, which is, like, what is the point that I'm trying to get across? Like, what perspective that I have. What. What could I boil it down to?

[B]

What can you boil it down to?

[A]

It's different with every. With. It's different with the different. With different movies, I guess. And it's.

[B]

I remember, you know, Mike Birbiglia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's something he would say. It was very nice, practical writing advice. He was like, write the point of the episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if everything that happens isn't serving that point in some way, even if it's tonally like, it could just be. Be. And then he goes to the store and gets a pack of cigarettes. It doesn't necessarily. But it's. It's lonely or whatever. Informing it in an indirect way. But I would write something like, Pete is feeling unseen by his parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or when. And really wants to tell the truth or whatever. And I'd put that on a. On a whiteboard or whatever. And I'd always look at it. Are there things that come up more than others? Is it, like, lighten up. You seem to not take yourself too seriously. You're not buying into your own hype.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the. What's the big deal? Why are people so stressed? Enjoy yourself.

[A]

I don't know. I think.

[B]

Well, isn't the point of sausage party. We're all going to die, so live in the moment.

[A]

And. Yeah, like, that was like a real. We had a lot of thoughts about religion. That was kind of. And this is the end as well. Religion's a thing we talk about a lot and think about a lot and the reasons for it, why people believe it, the. The good parts of it, the bad parts of it, you know, the. The evolution of it, the perversion of it, you know, And I think that. That to us. And they both have different. You know, this is the end, I think, was more of a meditation of, like, what does it mean to be a good person? Basically, like, if you're subscribing to, like, the Christian ideals of, like, if you're good, you go to heaven and if you're bad, you go to hell. Then, like, what is that? Like, who is good, who is bad? What does it mean to be good? You know? And then beyond that, it was just. The plot was just survival, you know, and that's like the joke of the movie. But we always talk about the story and the plot and, like, the plot is just what's happening and the story is like, what it's actually about, you know, Isn't that interesting?

[B]

Yeah, I kind of look at my life that way, actually.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I really do. I'm like, oh, I'm talking to Seth right now. But there's something much deeper and richer that I'm after.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think in that that's always like, those two things are like, the things that. When. I mean, this is just how we think about it. But, like, those two things are the things that need to be gloriously married in order for a movie to function.

[B]

Things. The events that are taking place and.

[A]

And the emotions that you're exploring and the overall story that you're trying to tell from, like a character and emotional standpoint, basically. And the point. The thing you're trying to say, basically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And like, those two things should be like. It was a good quote about writing. I read once where it's like, the thing that seems the least important at the beginning of the movie is the most important at the end of the movie. And the thing that seems the most important, the beginning of the movie is the least important.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

There's kind of this thing that happens, like. And, like Superpads, I think. You know, like, you know, it seems like it's all about buying alcohol for a party.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that is actually, like, has nothing to do with anything. Like, that's the plot. But the story is these guys are going different schools and they can't tell each other that they are gonn to miss each other. And like, if you watch the first few minutes of that movie, you. It'd be hard to identify that's even happening. Probably. Right.

[B]

The most important thing at the beginning is getting alcohol.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And at the end, it wasn't this.

[A]

Little weird thing that is happening. But slowly that little weird thing becomes everything and the plot becomes great.

[B]

Now we have to upload this to Netflix for the master class because that was some good. That's great.

[A]

But. Yeah, that's. And that's how we are always trying to think about it now. And like, once, you know, we've gotten better at articulating it to ourselves in those ways, it's it gets easier to apply to. To the things we're writing. Yeah.

[B]

What is a good person? I'm here with you. I'm not putting you on the spot.

[A]

No. I don't know.

[B]

We get a lot of love. Your neighbor as yourself sort of stuff. We don't. Other people. I. Again, going back. Yeah.

[A]

I think in general, like, it's. It's. It's. Yeah. Like, don't. Like, it's. It's easy to make people's lives miserable. Like, and it sucks out there. And it's easy to make it shittier for people. It's so and so. Like, I would start by not making things shittier for people. That's like a good start.

[B]

Which, by the way, there are little micro decisions that people make.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You notice how.

[A]

I mean, it's a theme in a movie we're starting to write right now, which is all about, you know, one of the big themes of the movie is, like, by doing nothing, are you just making people's lives shittier? Like, is. Is inaction the same as negative action? You know, And I was just thinking.

[B]

About that because I'm watching the 13th on Netflix. I'm watching these evil politicians. You know, I'm using that term.

[A]

It's a good term.

[B]

Do shitty things. Yeah, I do shitty things against oppressed communities. And it was really breaking my heart. Then I was like, okay, so I'm looking at them and in this is the end. The demons get those guys because they're fucking up mandatory minimums. And this and this and this and three strikes and you're out and blah, blah, blah. But I'm at home and I'm like, I was alive when that was happening.

[A]

Yeah, very much so.

[B]

I didn't pick up the phone. Can you call? It's like a plausible deniability.

[A]

You'd be like, well, I didn't have the phone. Yeah, exactly. And I would. Yeah. And I think I would. I mean, as we are exploring this movie that we're starting to write, like, I think the argument we're gonna make probably is like, no, that you are. By doing nothing, you are probably complicit in doing. If you really go. If you. If you follow that path of nothingness, it probably leads to, like, some directly terrible shit. And I think everyone does bad shit. Like, you know, and it's unavoidable. And I think that's also why you should probably try to do something good specifically, because, you know, merely by wearing the shoes I'm wearing and the clothes I'm Wearing and driving the car. I'm Dr. And I'm probably contributing.

[B]

What ideologies are you.

[A]

A thousand terrible things. You know, they sell our DVDs at every store that probably doesn't have ideologies that I align with. We're filming special promotional things for those DVDs for those various stores.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, so I think so. That. That. So that's also happening. So I think, you know, when I say, like, the first way, I think probably to not be a dick is just not going around being a dick to people.

[B]

That's step one.

[A]

That's step one. Maybe that's where the game starts. That's where the game starts. Try not to be neutral. People started that. And that's like inking you towards neutral, probably. Right.

[B]

But it's like, I'm thinking of what Martin Luther King Jr.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Was talking about when it's like he says, only love can cast out hate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not neutrality casting.

[A]

No, it's love. Yeah. It's like, not only a difference can cast out hate.

[B]

Because if you're just being a vacuum, you really are just a space where hate can seep.

[A]

No, it's true.

[B]

Even if it's not. I was thinking about, like, if you're in the stock market.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How ethical is your portfolio? I know that's.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's true. 100%.

[B]

But, like, are you supporting this company that made the bullets that shot this guy? You're like, fuck my face, dude.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's. It's very true. And then, so, yeah, I mean, that's why, again, that gets so complicated that, you know, the way I justify it in my life is I have, like, other charitable things that I do. And I try to think, like everyone, you know, if you're, like, living in Western civilization, odds are you're being complicit in some things that you personally would not be that psyched about. You know, but that doesn't mean you can't actively try to do things that support ideas that you are really psyched about.

[B]

It's overwhelming. We talk about this all the time on the podcast. Podcast, where it's the starfish thing. You pick up one starfish and throw it in the ocean. You save that starfish. Like, you don't get overwhelmed by the millions of starfish that are dying. Like, you're talking about your shoes. That's often an example. I'm wearing Nikes. And we filled up our gas. Our cars with gas. And we ate some humans.

[A]

I ate humans. So that's not good.

[B]

That doesn't mean we can't do one good thing. I was at Hilarity for Charity this year.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I almost. I had a very funny moment where you had to vamp.

[A]

I did. I was vamping. You should have got up, man. You could have helped.

[B]

I thought about it, but I had two thoughts. One, One, he won't know who I am. Two, what if I bomb?

[A]

I get that. I totally support that. Can you imagine if I stood up and went, seth, do you want me.

[B]

To just stand up like.

[A]

No, no. Who are you?

[B]

It was a great show.

[A]

Thanks. It turned out well, my friend.

[B]

No, the vamping was not what I took from it. The panic that I felt.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Is what I took from it. But we're talking about being a good person and being actively a good person, trying to create love instead of just nothingness, you know?

[A]

And that being said, like, I found a way to be charitable in a way that's incredibly organic to things that I enjoy doing anyway. And I think that. That, like, people can do that. I think you do. You don't have to be unhappy in being charitable if you just are not into something. You shouldn't force yourself. If the idea of dogs dying just cripples you, don't volunteer at a shelter. Find something else. I think you don't have to get.

[B]

Up at 5am to serve. You can serve.

[A]

You can use the thing you already enjoy doing and. And probably find a way to apply that. Well. That's why charitably.

[B]

I know helping Alzheimer's directly with hilarity for charity is wonderful, but I also have to think. You are. We're talking about how easy it is to fuck up somebody's day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could go up. You could walk down a busy street and go up to any person you see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't know them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're not a famous person.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And if you just go, coward.

[A]

Yeah. It would fuck up their whole day.

[B]

So there you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I think of you, I think of 15 funny things. And this is. This is me. There's a lot of people. I'm not trying to greenlight your vanity. I'm trying to invite you into a space where you're like, no, I'm sure I know people that didn't kill themselves because they watched Ace Ventura.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? There have to be people that are like, hey, this, this, or this. And then I watch this.

[A]

Yeah. And I've heard that. And it actually is very nice. And it's very Rewarding. And I can recall some of the specific instances of people saying that. But I gotta say I recall much more the instances of people who have families with Alzheimer's who have come up to me and my wife saying that they've benefited in some way from our charitable work. Like, oh, you up level, you up leveled. And it's true. And yeah, it really is like. And again, I think, I think actually maybe that. And it's nice in a way because it puts less pressure on my movies in some ways. Like I can get, I can get people coming up to me telling me they like me and it. And it does. And it's for reasons that are actually legitimate or more maybe arguably more legitimate than just making them laugh in an.

[B]

Instance, you know, because that's very subjective. But helping people with an illness is kind of objectively a good thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I could say I hated sausage party. Like, I guess that's not for you.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

Nobody's going to say I hated what you teach.

[A]

No, that like we give out grants that like, you know, give care like, you know, that provide in home care to people. So like I know that's like an int. Like a, an objectively good thing that helps people so that, that again, that, that, that puts less pressure on me making my movies crowd, which is fantastic. We'll already, we'll remember you well no matter what happens.

[B]

So a good person helps us other people that's being. They don't up other people.

[A]

They don't up other people.

[B]

When I took mushrooms, I have this thing. I love it. It's a. It's a circle of wood and inside it's two pieces of glass and inside is water and sand and cool. When you leave it, it makes a beautiful mountainscape. It looks like a Bob Ross.

[A]

Yeah, I love it.

[B]

Valerie and I affectionately call this thing the Bible because we're like this has.

[A]

All this of the universe because when.

[B]

You flip it over, especially if you're tripping or if you're high or whatever, whatever you're looking at and you're just like, just fall. Don't up other people's. Yeah, you see that. And you also see decay becoming something beautiful and then starting over and starting over.

[A]

Well, mushrooms did make me very aware of like. Yeah. Of like energy from a very young age as far as like people's up. Like how old were you when you started doing mushrooms? Did you do them from a young age?

[B]

No, I was 29.

[A]

Yeah, we were. Me and my friends were like 13, 14, 15, doing like a shitload of mushrooms. No way. Like, on a regular basis, really. I remember I did mushrooms the day I got my wisdom teeth out. Oh, my God. When I was, like, 14. And I remember I couldn't chew, so I ground them up in a coffee grinder and poured them in my mouth.

[B]

You couldn't be talking to a more captive audience.

[A]

I want to know everything, but from that I remember what happened. Was it good? Yeah, it was fantastic. Yeah, I tripped. I got dry sockets because we smoked a very. I smoked a lot of weed. And you shouldn't do that when you just have your wisdom teeth out.

[B]

So interesting to me because I can be a bit of a square where I'm like, you shouldn't do Ram. Dass has this great quote where he's like, you have to be somebody before you can be nobody. And mushrooms can offer a certain type of ego death. You're like, I'm not Seth. I'm just energy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were barely Seth. You were a 13.

[A]

We were kids. I look back at it, I was like. If I saw kids our age as fucked up as we were, I'd be like, what are you guys doing? This is insane. But it made us. I remember, like, you'd be very aware of, like, someone ruining other people. People's vibes. And, like, you'd be in a room and someone would come in with a bad vibe, and it would, like, make everyone to leave the room. And I like. And. And. And then you, like, found the people you really like doing mushrooms with because you're like, oh, they have all of, like, a very positive, good energy.

[B]

That's a very mushroom. Yeah, it's a very mushroom. Thing for me is if I took it with somebody or in a group, you'd go, I don't know about Dan.

[A]

No, not yet. You don't want that. Yeah, I've done mushrooms with the wrong people dozens of times. Like, I. In high school, like, a few times, I just did mushrooms. Like, went to a party, and like, I was just like, this is like, a terrible idea.

[B]

Talk about not being seen or heard is you have to go up to everyone and be like, I'm on mushrooms. Have you taken mushrooms?

[A]

I'm on mushrooms. I was just with one of my friends that I grew up with over New Year's, and we were talking about years ago, maybe I was maybe 15, 14 or 15. We were at a New Year's party, and New Year's had just happened, and I walked into a room, and there was tons of people. People with chocolate mushrooms, and they Were like, you want some? I was like, oh, yeah. And I ate a bunch of them. And then, like, five minutes later, my friend came up to me. He's like, yo. And he was my ride. He's like, I'm going home. If you want to come, you got to come with me now. And I was like, fuck. And I just went home and I slept at his house. And he went to sleep instantly. And then I was awake for, like, seven hours, just, like, wandering around his house by myself having, like, the most intense mushroom. Mushroom trip I've ever had in my entire.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can I ask you something? Do you have full on channel changing somewhere else hallucinations, or is it just.

[A]

That coffee pot looks weird? No, I've never had any. Like. Like, a bunch of my friends have done, like, ayahuasca, which sounds like it, like, is, like, teleportational. Yeah. Hallucinogenic abilities. No, I've had mushroom things because I hear about, like. Like I've hallucinated intensely. I remember, like, probably the most intense one I had. I remember is like, everyone's like, literally, like. Like, it was like people. It was like people's facial features were just completely floating around their faces. Wow. Like, like into Picasso Ish way. And to the point where, like, it's all I was talking about for, like, four. I was just like, I. You guys are not seeing this, but.

[B]

I see some of that. Like, the ancestors, last time we took them, I said to Val, I go, the ancestors are in this lamp. Because when I looked at it, I would start to see, like, Egyptian, like, beautiful, glorious black men with gold hats.

[A]

And I was like, those are our ancestors. They're here. They can see us. They can get us. Mushrooms are crazy, though. I haven't done them in a little while, but they're great. Years. Years. No, probably more recently than years. Yeah, maybe like a year ago, Something like that.

[B]

I think it's some. There's something about having an experience that you can't explain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And do you remember any epiphanies you had? I, like, recently, we were burning a piece of wood, not safe. And I was holding it, and I said to Val, and this made sense, and it makes sense to me now. And that's what I like about mushrooms, is you can have an epiphany that seems to make sense later.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As I go to Valerie, I go, it's all one thing. Thing singing itself.

[A]

That's true, man. But it is meaning.

[B]

Like, the wood is becoming the smoke is becoming the air. As me and I was like, those things can make a certain degree of intellectual sense now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when you're on mushrooms, you are that thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're just like, I don't get it. I am.

[A]

It.

[B]

Does that make sense?

[A]

It totally does.

[B]

Like, and all that stuff about, like, loving your neighbor and being caring and telling the truth is a big one. I was like, why would I lie.

[A]

About what's in me? I think it probably, maybe, and I say this with no scientific backing whatsoever, maybe raises people's emotional intelligence.

[B]

I think it absolutely.

[A]

Because I think, like, it's. That's another thing is as I get older, is like, you start to realize how many people are just like, not like. I think I'm like, a very sensitive person when it comes to, like, just in general what people are feeling in any given moment. Like an empathic person from Star Trek. Like. Like that. The nurse lady on Star Trek.

[B]

But I get that if somebody is.

[A]

Having a weird time, if someone's uncomfortable, I feel like I zone in on it. And it's funny because I have very close friends who I'm with a lot who just like, could not be more oblivious to it.

[B]

And so this is why the holidays are so shitty.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Honestly, it's my discomfort, but it's also absorbing my brothers.

[A]

Yeah, you just. And some people. And I'm always, honestly, like, a little jealous of the people who just are like, when, like, I will leave a situation, I'm just like, oh, that was so awkward. That person was so unhappy. And the other people just like, no. Like, were they. And I'm like, yes.

[B]

But are those funny people?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Sometimes. Yeah.

[B]

What. What kind of funny? Like, pie face funny?

[A]

No, there's like. It's interesting, like. I know. I know very funny people who just aren't quite like, in tune. I mean. Yeah. With, like.

[B]

It reminds me. Oh, go ahead.

[A]

No.

[B]

Of Shanling saying. Seinfeld saying to Shanling. Shanling was like, I'm 40. Whatever. When am I going to be comfortable at a party? And Seinfeld says, the day you're comfortable at a party is the day you're not funny anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a specific type of. Of funny, though, because here. Here you are.

[A]

No, like, my. My writing partner Evan, like, no one is more comfortable at a party than.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. And he's like, one of the funniest.

[B]

But maybe that's why it's a good partnership.

[A]

Yeah. I think it probably we compliment each other. Well. Well, it's like, I. Again, like, it's great because like, sometimes there'll be a note that, like, I might find particularly uncomfortable to give to an actor. And that's why it's a great partnership, because he's like, oh, I have no problem whatsoever. Like, that, that's what it works well is like, you know.

[B]

What have you learned about acting? I'm very interested in that, having just done some for the first time. Were you trained again? I don't want to sound like Entertainment.

[A]

Weekly, but I took acting classes when I was a kid. Not really, though. Like, you know, like a kid who takes some acting classes. Like, the same. You would take, like a photography class or like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So no, I wasn't like, really?

[B]

What does it boil down? David Mamet has this great quote where he says, interesting actors are interesting people. So he's like, you can't just ask Al Pacino how his breakfast is and have him be, like, really boring. I don't mean he's pretty.

[A]

I 100% disagree with that.

[B]

Is that true?

[A]

I've met actors who are able to portray a level of depth, intelligence, and complexity that they themselves do not have. No way.

[B]

Empty vest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wow. A hundred percent.

[B]

But you don't seem that way. You seem like you're, like, trying.

[A]

It's much sweatier for me.

[B]

But it seemed when I watch you act, I'm like, this is a guy who figured out how to be natural.

[A]

Yeah. Because that's what I think I'm good at when it comes to acting. But I. Look, I've worked with other actors where I'm just like. And I think it's the same with anything. Like, you know, I'm sure standups look at each other and they're just like, I don't do what you do. Like, this is. Is like we're operating in different universes.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

And both are very valid universes, but they are different universes.

[B]

Like, I look at Mulaney and I'm like, oh, that's a stand up. I'm.

[A]

I feel that. Yeah, exactly. And there's actors that I look at and I'm like, I can keep working forever, but, like, I do not have that skill. Right. And I can maybe at times make it look like I have that skill or I can maybe do things that. That. Yeah. You know, not to say I don't think I could stretch more or try different things or really push myself, but, like, you know, I don't know if I'll ever be able to do. I will never be able to do it like Daniel Day Lewis does. Like, I just look at that and I'm just like, oh, that's like a different thing. Like, it's a different level of. You know. But in all honesty, like, I look at movies and I get it. Like, not to say I'll be able to make the best movies that are ever made, but I understand how directing works. I get it. The more I do do it, especially the more I get it writing as well. I feel like I look at. I can look at almost all the writing out there and not, again, not say I can reach the level of it, but at least I can understand.

[B]

It doesn't elude you.

[A]

It doesn't completely elude me, how it's even possible. You know what I mean? And then sometimes I'll work with an actor and I'm like, I don't even get. Like, there's no way I could do anything even like that. Like, it's just not even in. On the menu for me, you know, not to say I get. I. Not to say I couldn't push myself. And I've done work I look at, I'm very proud of, but every once in a while, I'll just see someone do. So, like, when I worked with Kate Winslet, that was a thing where I was just like, we do different things. Like, it's like a. Don't you think?

[B]

Comedian, Trump's writer, actor, anything. I'm always just like, it's all under the umbrella of, I'm one of the funny ones. I'm a funny guy.

[A]

Yeah. But then you do get the thing where it's like, all those people want to do was comedy, like, to, you know, all, you know, Michael Fassbender and Kate win. They're all, I'd love to make a comedy.

[B]

I've actually heard Pacino.

[A]

They all say that, but I think it's not true. I think they just want to say, but.

[B]

But what is something you keep in your head when you're. When you're acting? I'm just asking for selfish reasons.

[A]

It's, you know, it's interesting. I've had, like, an evolution with acting. I really look at it. I think probably one of my strengths and weaknesses as an actor is I look at it as a filmmaker. So I look at the. I can't help but look at the big picture and how I am fitting into it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't help but kind of try to imagine the finished product and then how I wish that role would. Would happen in the finished product. Right, but.

[B]

So you're trying to be a Piece of the puzzle.

[A]

I'm trying to be a piece of puzzle.

[B]

You're not chewing. But that comes across. You're not chewing up scenery. You're not like a busy actor.

[A]

But I find that even this is something that I've benefited from is I've worked with actors who don't look at it like that. But because of that, they're able to make their characters much more interesting because they're not thinking of anything except this character. And how would this person be? What else could this person do? What else would this. And. And very much disregarding the big picture flippantly at times to singularly serve what they think makes an interesting character. I've watched. Which is very helpful.

[B]

T.J. miller, who's amazing. We shot on film. I watched him. To stay in a funny place, disregard everything. And I say that if you were here. This isn't shitting on tj.

[A]

It's.

[B]

You're looking at someone who's so funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who's gonna be like, I'm gonna keep the plate spinning. Even though you said cut.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm gonna be a nut in the scene and I'm gonna be a nut off the scene.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he's a very sweet, normal person.

[A]

He really is.

[B]

After.

[A]

Cut. Yeah. No, I've seen again. And people. Yeah. I mean, I get. Everyone has a different approach to it.

[B]

But if I'm a shitty actor and you're. You. This. You wrote this great scene and you love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you cast me as this thing. And on the day, it's just stinking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it just appears like I've never acted. I know you probably recast me or whatever, but what would you do to try and get that person into the moment?

[A]

It depends on who you are. It's different for every person. Honestly.

[B]

Has anyone ever told you something that made you go. Right. I remember Judd yelled out. Remember what just happened?

[A]

Yeah. Judd once screamed boo at me from the other room. That probably was not the most productive direction I've ever. Yeah.

[B]

Really? That's hilarious. What. What have you done?

[A]

I don't even remember. I was like 18. But. No.

[B]

Well, maybe not all questions.

[A]

One actually direction that Judd gave that I. That we constantly still quote while we were filming. The 40 year old virgin was less semen, more emotion. Which is kind of like just a go to for us. Less semen. Less. Less se. It was. We were improvising and that was his direction for the improv. Improv was less semen, more emotion.

[B]

That's so funny.

[A]

And it was a great direction, honestly. And it's something that we talk about a lot still, which is, guys, I think we should do a little less semen and a little more emotion. But as an actor, you know, what's interesting is, like, a lot of the direct. Like, the more dramatic movies I've done. Take this Waltz, I guess, and the Steve Jobs movie. Yeah.

[B]

Very heartbreaking.

[A]

Very. They.

[B]

Genuine.

[A]

They. There's very. They don't. Those directors don't give. Did not give a lot of direction.

[B]

I have a bit about this where I go, I thought the director told you what to do.

[A]

Yeah, no, they don't. Like, they were like, touch your sweater. I honestly can't remember one piece of direction Danny Boyle gave me other than, like, again, it's like, maybe a little. It's like it was that kind of thing. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little more. Or maybe a little, like.

[B]

Well, that's what Birbiglia told me.

[A]

That's kind of it.

[B]

Like, less. He's like, always start at zero and then move up.

[A]

Yeah. I remember Judd saying that also, I think before we started filming Knocked up, he was rightfully concerned because I'd never starred in a movie or even acted very much at all, and I was about to star in the movie he was directing. And I remember him having that conversation with me being like, just do. Like, try to do nothing. Like, look, try as much as possible. Just like, you're never performing.

[B]

That's a mammoth thing, too.

[A]

And it was really good. But it's funny because in the Steve Jobs movie, I remember one of the only pieces, like, you know, I'm not doing, like, a full on Wozniak, like, impression, but there's some affectations that he has that I kind of adopt in the movie to some degree, you know, and we rehearsed for a little bit, and I was doing them, and then when we started filming, I kind of just dropped them because I. My instinct was to just do as little as possible. And I remember he was like, do it. Like you were doing all that stuff. Like, Ted, Dan, don't not do it. So fun. I'll do it.

[B]

Acting can be embarrassing. That's what people don't. That's. I shouldn't put other people into this. That's what I didn't know. Walking down the street and having a crew film you is weird because you're like, this is how I walk.

[A]

Yeah, it's weird.

[B]

I walk like a comedian, too. There's like a weird weirdness to my.

[A]

Yeah. And Some, like, that's why, like, I think Franco is. I was just with him this morning. Like, he's one of my favorite actors to work with because he has, like. He pushes me to be less conservative in my acting and more fearless in my acting in that, like, he just. He shows not one iota of fear or holding back. And one. He actually taught me. One of the most valuable lessons that I still think when we're working is when we were filming Pineapple Express between the. We're shooting the scene where I'm, like, at his house buying weed in between takes, I, like, chuckle to myself. And he's like, what? And I. I'm like, I thought it'd be funny if when I sniff it, I go, man, it smells like God's vagina. But that's probably not the type of joke that people will be okay with in any way, shape, or form. And he's like, yeah. And then the next take, he said it and. Oh, my God. And I wasn't gonna say it. Like, and then he said it, and it was hilarious. And we put it in the movie, and it's one of the biggest laughs in the entire movie. And I remember thinking, like, I wasn't gonna say that joke. And if he hadn't literally, like, just heard me chuckle and asked me what I was thinking. Yeah, because he, like. My instinct was to not do it for the exact same reason. His instinct was like, oh, we have to fucking do this.

[B]

I think everyone listening, though, thought he was going to go, like, you got to do it, man. Just do.

[A]

No, he just didn't.

[B]

You know a joke of yours, I think about, which I have to assume was Rift, is, I hope your plane crashes and.

[A]

Wait, what is that? Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know if it was a thing. I kind of wanted to put it to you. Tin Knocked up, when you call her doctor, doctor, he's not available. I remember in the theater, you're about to hang up, and then you come back to the phone and go, I hope you're playing crashes. And the noise the theater made was laughing. But also, like, you can't say that. I've talked to Jed about this, too. Also in Knocked up, they talk about how a girl can't get pregnant if you're on top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If she's on top. And I was like, I remember talk about making an audience feel a certain way. One of the ways you can make them feel is. Is you can't say that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

People are gonna believe that.

[A]

I think that became then kind of Our commit, like, that became, like, a very appealing thing to me and Evan is like, when. And Franco and the people we'd worked with and when this is the end, that it kind of became like the doctrine was like, if it's our instinct that we should not. You should be doing it. We probably should. And if. If it's our personal instinct that, like, I don't even want to talk about that myself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Then we should probably do it. You know, if it feels like it's getting too real.

[B]

You don't have to use it, though.

[A]

No, you don't have to use it. And that's. And that's where trust comes in. And, like, 100%, the only reason that. That these people will do this stuff for us is because they trust us and because we've made more good things than shitty things. And. And, you know, it's like when I watch Sausage Party, honestly, I'm, like, still shocked we got all those people to do all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in my head, I'm just. Just like. And. And that's one. One of the reasons I'm happy it turned out well was, like, we didn't betray that trust. We got these people to do, like, the most disgusting things, to really do things that, like, if it went wrong, would, like, potentially be very damaging to them. Something they maybe really would have to answer for. Yeah. For years and years to come. And just the fact that we avoided that, to me, is, like, one of the things I'm happiest about is, like, all, oh, they'll maybe trust us again. Yeah. We can maybe get Edward Norton to do something else. That's really stupid one day. That's right, because we didn't blow it with that one.

[B]

And you keep rolling forward with that goodwill. That's amazing. Well, I want to be sensitive to your time.

[A]

And I got another, like, I could say, like, 15 minutes. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, no problem. We talk about the meaning of life. 15 minutes.

[A]

Perfect. Great.

[B]

But it can be a quick answer. You were raised Jewish.

[A]

I was.

[B]

And let's just jump to now. What do you think? Now, I know you. You're thinking about it clearly in your work.

[A]

I look contemplating, but are we.

[B]

There's a lot of ways to take it. The meaning of life. What are we doing here?

[A]

What are we doing here?

[B]

Higher consciousness.

[A]

I don't know. Maybe life after death. I don't know.

[B]

Ghosts, Aliens, maybe.

[A]

You hear ghost stories that scare you. Chemtrails.

[B]

Chemtrails. We can bring chemtrails.

[A]

You didn't. You didn't see them in the 70s. Where were the chem drills? There's been planes this whole time.

[B]

But how about dead over? Do you think when you die it's lights out. That really changes the way? What is it dead over? Is it over when we die?

[A]

Prob. Maybe. I hope not. Yeah.

[B]

I was just listening to a thing that I love, Ram Dass. He was saying, like, you. What is real? Everything's relatively real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You were dreaming and it was real. And you woke up and you're. And you're like, no, now this is real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like, no, you just woke up into another one.

[A]

Yeah, it's all.

[B]

All this very mushrooming.

[A]

I remember there's a Steven Wright short film that's maybe the weirdest thing of all time about, like, a Civil War soldier who, like, goes and lives in the woods after he's done. And in it he talks about death a lot. And there's a joke, if you could call it that, where it's like, he's like, I already didn't exist for millions of years, and then I started existing and I won't exist again one day. So all my life is. Is kind of a brief interruption in my wonderful streak of non existence.

[B]

That's so interesting.

[A]

Yeah. Which is a really interesting.

[B]

Well, that's what Dana Carvey said. He goes, where were you in the Renaissance?

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

And I think about that all the time.

[A]

You were dead.

[B]

That's my.

[A]

Less semen. More. More emotion. Yeah, but I've already been dead. And it was. Maybe it wasn't that bad, but Alan.

[B]

Watts and the reincarnation peoples.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Say we don't come into this world. We come out of this world.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

So there is no other place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's this, and there's only this. And when you go, you'll come back into this.

[A]

That'd be great, right? Yeah, it's interesting. I. I don't like. I think. I mean, it's not. I think the happiest I've been is when I don't put a lot of thought into where it all goes and instead put. I think the journey is. And I think, like, the journey is what counts in every way. And it's something that I apply to almost every. Every. You know, like, it's like I used to make movies and put so much on their release. Like, once I realized it's only because when I started making movies, I put nothing on the release. I didn't even think about it. I look back at Superman, I didn't even. I literally didn't like it. I didn't even know if it did well or not. Like it was less because I didn't even know. Yeah. And then once I started to be aware of it, I put so much on. How's it going to do well, you know, will people like me or not? Will I look stupid? Well, I have to answer for this in some terrible way. And I almost think the interview was the thing that like, shit, like, was so much innocence. The culmination of that. Like, never has there been more focus on how something turned out than ever than anything I've worked on creatively. There's been few things that I've had more focus on than that. Just from like a, you know, a news level. Yeah. And so that kind of was interesting because it was such a disaster how it all came out out. But like, I had a lot of great times making that movie and I love working with James Franco and there was a lot of great. So I've started like, when I, When I'm working to realize that like, this is, this should be the reward. This is like, like. And it's not. Yeah, enough is a strong word, but it, it's. I, you know, I have a hard time. I look at Leonardo DiCaprio or something, I'm like, well, that guy like fucking sludged around in the tundra for a year and a half eating moose asses to. To win. An like, not to say he didn't enjoy that. Not to say the journey wasn't very rewarding for him. But like, I don't know if I have that in me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I might have. The more life is short. It's a fucking Oscar. Do I want to trudge her out of the tundra eating moose assholes?

[B]

I look at Sandler building a basketball court on the set of every movie.

[A]

Yeah. You're like, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. That's not that bad. And so. But I also have realized that I am also happiest when I feel like I'm working on something that I think is really good, you know, and so I'm really happy when I. When I believe in what I'm working on and when in a moment to moment basis, I'm engaged creatively and I feel like I'm expressing myself and what my sensibilities are in like a moment to moment basis. And I think that's also something that.

[B]

You'Re not postponing your happiness.

[A]

Exactly. That's something I've tried to put more Emphasis on. Is like, procedurally, like, make this exciting. Don't. Don't make this. This the. You know, the time where we're just collecting things. Then. Then later is the time we look at it. Make. Make this an exciting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Fun part of the process where we're really able to express ourselves in. In this. And where we put the camera and how we line up the shots and. And how we light it and in. You know, all that kind of a.

[B]

Simple fascination with what is happening.

[A]

Yeah. With what's. It's. Being present, man. It's just trying to be present. Yeah.

[B]

But when we're too busy fixating on what could be, we're missing out on what is.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it's. Yeah, I think it's. And I think that also helps your work. You know, I think a lot of great. You know, I was listening to a Buster Keaton interview recently, and he's like, yeah, we made up on the spot. Like, he's like, we. Like, half the stuff we made up was on the spot. And he's like, we always left room in the day because we knew, like, not until we were there would. Yeah. And that, again, was a sign. Was like, oh, they were really, like, being present. Like. Yeah. Let's not just tick our shots off the list and then we'll go edit it together.

[B]

You're not making a circuit board.

[A]

Yeah. No. It's like, while we're here, what else can we do? What. You know, so. Yeah.

[B]

I love that answer. It's wonderful. And I've been thinking about that a lot late, so it's perfect. Let's. Let's do the super speed round because. And then we'll get you out of here right on time.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I've always wanted to ask you because when I was shooting. Crashing the show that Judd and I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would. Are doing. I would smoke pot sometimes. And I never really did that when I was working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then I noticed that it really helped me not get up my own ass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that first on the call sheet sort of thing never appealed to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just felt like a guy happy to be eating some melon.

[A]

No. Very much so.

[B]

Would you say it takes some of that bullshit out of your life?

[A]

For sure. I mean, I think, like. I think it helps. Like, to me, I've come down to just like, whatever works for you. Like, it's. Yeah.

[B]

Whatever gets you through the day.

[A]

Whatever gets you through the day. Like, it's fucking tough out there. Like, whatever. You know, everyone.

[B]

But it could Potentially increase kindness and patience and a little bit of humility, even.

[A]

It could. I'm generally. I'm afraid people are going to yell at me for being stoned. So I'm generally starting from a remorseful place. But I do think it at times helps me be present. And I also think at times it completely puts me in my head and does the opposite. So it's knowing what and when.

[B]

But I reverse engineered the theory holding you in my mind as an example.

[A]

I, for sure, I was like, oh.

[B]

He doesn't seem showbiz.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe in a good way, because I smoke weed.

[B]

Well, yeah, you can see what I did there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Question it is, I'm leading you.

[A]

It's. I don't know if that might have something to do with it.

[B]

Let me just ask what, what it means to you, then this will be the speed round. What's the greatest thing you've learned about weed?

[A]

I learned that I, it. That I process it much differently than a lot of other people. Is that true? Yes, very much so. Because I've just experienced so many times where I'll smoke weed with someone and like, they are just fucked up all day and I'm ready to keep going about my business as though I just had a glass of water. I'm an incredibly, incredibly functional weed smoker, whereas a lot of people just aren't.

[B]

That's so funny.

[A]

And I think that that's something that I've, over the years become much more sensitive to is like, I tell people, like, don't. I think also sometimes people around me are like, oh, let's smoke. Smoke some weed. Yeah. And I'm like, I have to be like, don't smoke a lot of this. Or don't smoke or feel free to not smoke any of this.

[B]

When I'm on a date with Valerie.

[A]

I'll go.

[B]

She doesn't.

[A]

But I'll go.

[B]

Don't go drink for drink for me. Like, I know it looks like, yeah, I'm a. I can take a Manhattan down in two sips. Don't you do that.

[A]

No, don't do it. Yeah, no, it's true. And so, But I mean, for me, it's. I don't know. Like, I honestly, like, I stopped debating a long time ago. Is this making me better or worse? Is it helping or hurting? Like, I honestly don't even think about it that much that way. I just like it. It helps. I remember, like, years ago when I was writing for Undeclared, talking to Brent Forrester about it because I would sometimes smoke weed while we were writing. And I remember saying, like, I don't know if it makes me better at working, but it makes me not care that I'm working. And, like, it's something that I've actually seen in actors that I know who smoke weed but don't smoke weed when they're working. Is they really want to go. Go home. Like, they really are there. They're the actors who always, like, when am I gonna be done? Am I in this next scene? Like, do you need me for this next shot? Because they want to leave. Yeah, because they want. Because they're postponing their happiness. Exactly. And. And maybe those actors are not functional sodas. And that's great. But if. But. And again, once again, like, I've also worked with actors where I'm like, oh, this person spoke too much weed. It's a nightmare. Like, that's happened to me. So. So it's not. Again, it's not for everybody. It affects me differently. Actually.

[B]

I forgot to give this to you at the beginning. This is cbd. Do you ever use cbd?

[A]

I really don't that often. It makes your body feel good, right?

[B]

Try that. Yeah, that's Charlotte's Web. They gave me some, and I want to give you some.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

I love it. That, to me, is what weed sounds like to you, is that it's completely functional. I like to tell people, it'll make your body feel good, but you can read a book.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Well, let's continue with this again. We only have five minutes.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

Greatest lesson you've learned about writing. Just first thoughts. It doesn't have to be super profound.

[A]

I used to think we wrote movies fast, and now I realize we write movies really slow. Right? To. To not be afraid to like. To like. I think the actual writing of the script process is. Is. Is like, for us, like, 5% of the process and 95% of it is the year beforehand where we talk about it and have conversations and spitball. What is the big idea behind this? How can we get that across? What kind of movie? What makes it different? Our best movies are the ones that we've spent years and years and years working on. Like Superbad, Pineapple Express. You know, the ones that me and Evan have written. Like, this is the end. Sausage party. Like, those ones. All of them had, like, a gestation period of years. It's like Bridesmaids. Yeah, exactly. A long gestation. And. And then I look at other of our movies that happen faster, and I'm like they probably could have benefited from a longer gestation period. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

I love that comedy. Greatest. One of the great lessons you've learned.

[A]

About comedy, to be personal to and to just to do stuff. Only that I remember when I was really young, young, I did stand up and I kind of, I was like maybe 14 and I was trying to. I didn't really get what kind of standup I should be and I. But I was a fan of a lot of different standups. So I kind of tried like Steven Wright, like bizarre humor and then I kind of tried like Seinfeld observational humor and like I would kind of do different styles of jokes, kind of seeing which one I liked. And then there's a stand up named Daryl Lennox, who still a standup. I think he's great and he was super nice to me and he pulled me side after show and he was like, you're like 14 years old, man. He's like, you're the only guy here who's like trying to grab a tit for the first time. Like talk. He's like, talk about that. Like that's crazy, man.

[B]

I get so mad at that. Aren't addressing.

[A]

Yeah. And he's elephant. Yeah. And he's like, you're the only person here who can talk about what it's like to try to get a hand job for the first time in real time. You're not reflecting on it, you're experiencing it. You're trying to get your driver's license. 42. Like literally that's what he said. Yeah, literally that's what I was doing. I had to joke about crazy girl. What's so crazy about crazy? Like it was like, it was like. And he's like, talk about this shit that only you can talk about. And that like completely changed everything. And that's why we started writing Superbad, because it was the shit that. That's when I started telling jokes about, you know, trying to hook up with girls and trying to sneak into strip clubs and trying to buy beer and the shit that I was actually experiencing like as a high school kid.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And that was. And then it was just like I got so much better at it. And the response you would see because people were so skeptical when you're like a 15 year old stand up comedian, like I would be the first guy to be like, fudge this shit. Like, I don't want to watch a 50 year old stand up comedian. But then as soon as I started talking about 15 year old shit in a way that was like in no way. I wore like a fucking stussy shirt and cargo shorts on stage. Like I didn't try to dress like a comedian at all. Like I dressed like a 16 year old kid and I think that like people responded so much more to it and I could just see them being like, oh, he's not trying to act like an adult. He's funny, thank God. But he's talking about the shit that a 16 year old should be talking about. And that was like a very valuable lesson.

[B]

I find if another comedian says something about you or to you that is really, really funny and you deflect that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, dude, you look like this, you should talk about that. And if you're like, I'm not that.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

I'm, I'm grown and serious.

[A]

And there was one other young person who did stand up who's around my age, maybe 15 or 16 and he wore like a suit and like he dressed like fucking Harry Anderson. Like he, like he had like a little hat and everything. And I remember just like being like, fuck this guy. Like this guy is like everything that I as a 15 year old stand up comedian like and standing against like that's so good.

[B]

A good nemesis. I need a nemesis.

[A]

He was my nemesis.

[B]

It's good to have a nemesis.

[A]

Yeah. But that was a good lesson is talk about getting hand joke.

[B]

I love it. We kind of covered the other ones, so I'll just say, what is the heart? One of the times you laugh the hardest in your life, it's always again, I'm not looking for a great story, but when I talk about that you could be 12, you could be last week.

[A]

When I think about laughing heart, I think about being at summer camp and I think about like we would all be lying in our bunk beds late at night literally with people I'm still really good friends with. And like that's when you'd hit this like weird like delirious state. We'd usually be making fun of one of the people in the cabin for some horrible thing. But like I, it's because I just went back to my summer camp over the summer to like for a weekend with some friends. And I hadn't.

[B]

While it was active.

[A]

No, it was like right after the kids had left. But I hadn't been there in like 20 years. Years. And, and that was like the visceral feeling I kept feeling. It was like I feel like I laughed harder than I ever laughed in my life. Like lying in these bunk beds just. And like not Even able to see anyone. I remember just. You just be, like, looking up at the ceiling and all the lights were off and just being, like, in hysterics. Yes.

[B]

Keeping the council.

[A]

And it's something I was thinking about with Seinfeld. Like, I remember a Seinfeld interview where he talks about, like. Like how his friends were always the funniest people. Like, and that. And that's still true to me. Like. Like to, like, no one makes me laugh harder than, like, my friends who have nothing to do with comedy. Like, just the people that I grew up with. And, like, they're the people that, like, to me, are the funniest people I know. And. And I still think that's the case.

[B]

You just wrote it down and kind of started dissecting it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think. Yeah. Or they just. Yeah, we're shitty writers. Yeah.

[B]

Well, they didn't have the compulsion.

[A]

Yeah, I guess they just didn't. Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's great, man. Do you feel.

[A]

Feel good? I feel fantastic.

[B]

Is there anything you need to.

[A]

I'm not promoting. No, I'm not promoting anything.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I still just myself. Seth Rogen still exists in the world. I always try to be aware of him. If you see me, be nice. Don't make my day worse. That's a good one. Just be nice to me.

[B]

Coward.

[A]

Yeah. Don't call me out.

[B]

Well, thanks, man. I'm so honored that you did it.

[A]

No problem, man. I had a great time.

[B]

Thank you. And good luck with everything you're doing right now.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Oh, would you say keep it crispy? It's how this we end.

[A]

Keep it crispy.

[B]

Zero hesitation.

[A]

I'll do anything. It's all been beaten out of me.