Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #151
Date: September 15, 2023
Hosts: Pete Holmes & Valerie Chaney

Overview

This episode features Pete Holmes and his wife/co-host Valerie Chaney in their signature freewheeling, deeply personal, and often comedic conversational style. The pair discuss everything from parenting quirks and the psychology of storytelling, to masculinity in media, challenges with family dynamics, and the process of healing old wounds. As always, the episode is full of honest reflections, riffs on daily life, and discussions about feelings, sprinkled with family anecdotes and inside jokes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parenting & Storytelling with Children

• Discussion of Imaginary Tales: Pete and Val talk about telling Leela, their daughter, imaginative stories (e.g. a red polar bear) and how Leela is not always pleased to learn that these are not "true."
  • Pete: "She doesn't want to be tricked." (01:09)
  • Val: "Sometimes, baby, I tell you stories with make believe and magic that aren't in this world." (00:49)
• Material vs. Magic: Leela's desire for tangible things from stories highlights children's blending of material wants and imaginative play.

2. The "Tape & Pen" Riff

• Extended Bit About Tape and Pens: Pete and Valerie riff on different types of tape (deli tape vs. duct tape) and pens (Pete’s preference for bold, "masculine" pens vs. Valerie's issues with wet ink and smudging).
  • Pete: "Duct tape. That's the Sharpie of tapes." (07:45)
  • Val: "You like a wet pen. I hate a wet pen." (08:13)
• Handwriting Anxieties: Valerie shares her insecurities about her handwriting, especially when signing cards, leading to a heartfelt exchange about family handwriting and its emotional resonance.
  • Pete: "You could stop a war with your mom's handwriting." (12:34)
  • Val: "I could probably stop a panic attack in its tracks thinking of my mom's handwriting." (12:44)

3. Masculinity and Media Consumption

• Discussion about Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, and Masculine Energy in Media:
  • Pete admits to occasionally watching clips from the Joe Rogan podcast or Jordan Peterson for inspiration or curiosity.
  • Valerie observes the hyper-masculine, competitive dynamic on such shows and advocates for balance, suggesting listeners pair Rogan with more nurturing, contemplative figures like Richard Rohr.
    • Val: "It's all masculine energy… of course that would appeal to people who have masculine energy, who that resonates with." (27:53)
    • Pete: "There's an underlying thought system to all of that, which is if we're wearing the right suit, Jordan Peterson, have the right body, eat the right thing... growth, growth, growth." (29:00)
• Concerns About One-Sided Thought Patterns:
  • Valerie warns against internalizing too much of the "just go do it" advice without questioning meaning or broader purpose.
    • Val: "...for every Joe Rogan and Brian Callan, make sure you have like a Richard Rohr and a James Finley. Just like some feminine flow." (28:30)
  • Pete reflects on feeling more "blunt" when immersed in these masculine-leaning media.
    • Pete: "It makes me a little bit more rigid, it makes me a little bit more of a warrior and less of a…warrior is too flattering. It makes me too blunt." (26:59)

4. Individual Differences, “Wheeling and Dealing,” and Compassion

• Innate Psychological Differences:
  • Pete and Val talk at length about how people are born with different capacities for assertiveness and resilience ("wheeling and dealing"), and why it’s unhelpful to expect everyone to respond to adversity in the same way.
    • Pete: "What I resent from the wheeling and dealing group…is that the wheel and dealing folks often go around saying to the non wheel and dealing folks, why don't you dumb fucks just wheel and deal?" (25:05)
• Relating to Family and Past Generations:
  • Discussion on the inherited nature of survival strategies and trauma responses, and why some parents find it hard to change.
    • Pete: "I'm a product of my environment…it’s from The Departed, but, like, I want my environment to be a product of me." (41:50)
    • Val: "People are only as conscious as they can be…growing up and being, having a mature brain is being able to hold two sometimes contradicting truths at the same time." (43:01)

5. Forgiveness, Family, and Healing

• Forgiveness with Healthy Boundaries:
  • Valerie advocates for forgiveness only when it genuinely relieves suffering, not as a form of bypassing or self-repression.
    • Val: "I'm interested in that [forgiveness], only if it alleviates your suffering, if it's to be good, if it's to let them off the hook…then that's not helpful." (43:33)
• Dealing with Difficult Relatives/Parents and Narcissism:
  • Pete shares about working through trauma with a narcissistic family member, referencing reading Disarming the Narcissist for understanding and personal peace.
    • Pete: "Reading about this stuff…making a shape around trauma is so important…having somebody say, hey, there's a name for this thing…all of a sudden the walls start to build and like a container starts to form." (58:01-59:18)

6. Family Anecdotes & Inside Jokes

• "Apparently, It Can Cause a Fire" Story:
  • Pete recounts a classic-dad moment when he insists Valerie tell their house sitter, via voice text, to unplug the e-bike because "apparently it can cause a fire," which instantly becomes a running family joke.
    • Pete (leaning into voice note): "Apparently, it can cause a fire." (61:17)
    • The phrase is now repeated by daughter Leela for laughs — a new family inside joke. (63:26)

7. Emotional Honesty in Real Time

• Navigating Big Feelings Amid Healing:
  • The episode closes with reflections on the ongoing process of dealing with big feelings, family wounds, and the effort required to face them instead of numbing out.
    • Pete: "Feelings are no joke. When you're not feeling a feeling, you're like, feelings, who cares? …When you're feeling feelings, you're like, no, there's nothing but feelings." (64:49)
    • Val: "You're on such a big healing journey, and everybody listening, I'm sure, is benefiting from." (65:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Storytelling and Truth

  • Pete: "She doesn't want to be tricked." (01:09)
  • Val: "Sometimes baby, I tell you stories with make believe and magic that aren't in this world." (00:49)

• On Social Competence ("Wheeling and Dealing")

  • Pete: "What I resent from the wheeling and dealing group…is that the wheel and dealing folks often go around saying to the non wheel and dealing folks, why don't you dumb fucks just wheel and deal?" (25:05)

• On Masculine/Feminine Energies in Media

  • Val: "…for every Joe Rogan and Brian Callan, make sure you have like a Richard Rohr and a James Finley. Just like some feminine flow." (28:30)
  • Pete: "It makes me too blunt. Yeah, blunt is better, because blunt is not always great." (26:59)

• On Forgiveness and Healing

  • Val: “Forgiveness is on the other side of the battlefield of all the rage and the sadness and the grief and the trauma releasing…” (45:25)

• On Family Trauma and Understanding

  • Pete: “I'm a product of my environment…it’s from The Departed, but, like, I want my environment to be a product of me.” (41:50)
  • Val: “People are only as conscious as they can be…growing up and being, having a mature brain is being able to hold two sometimes contradicting truths at the same time.” (43:01)

• On Family In-Jokes

  • Pete: "Apparently it can cause a fire." (61:17, 63:39)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:36-01:21 — The nature of storytelling to children and the line between imagination and reality
• 06:00-10:01 — Tape & pen conversations; humor on office supplies and personality
• 16:00-23:00 — "Drinking" conversation turns into a reflection on consuming media and its subtle psychological effects
• 24:48-27:21 — "Wheeling and dealing" in life and acknowledging different innate traits in people
• 29:00-32:00 — Dissecting the ethos of masculine self-improvement media
• 33:32-35:21 — Commentary on the lack of subtlety/gentleness in certain media spaces, using Joe Rogan and body-shaming as examples
• 39:50-44:25 — Discussing forgiveness, holding contradictory truths, and healthy emotional processing
• 46:18-50:05 — Pete's improved relationship with his brother; seeking and processing family-of-origin issues
• 58:01-59:39 — The importance of labeling/defining trauma to create psychological “edges”
• 61:03-63:39 — The "apparently it can cause a fire" anecdote and its transformation into family lore
• 64:26-66:16 — Reflections on the discomfort and inevitability of big feelings and healing journeys

Tone & Style

The tone is candid, vulnerable, silly, and compassionate. Pete and Valerie alternate between humorous, off-the-cuff riffs and serious, introspective analysis of their inner worlds and relationships. The humor often leans goofy and self-deprecating, with moments of real wisdom and emotional honesty.

For New Listeners

This episode is a perfect blend of the personal and the philosophical, the trivial and the profound. Pete and Valerie’s chemistry and openness make even the heaviest psychological topics feel accessible, and the family stories and inside jokes provide an endearing throughline. Expect to laugh, to see yourself in their struggles and triumphs, and perhaps to finish the episode feeling a little more understood.

Keep it crispy! (66:16)