We Made It Weird #155

Summary

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Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #155
Date: October 20, 2023
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-hosts: Valerie, Katie

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Overview

In this laughter-filled, introspective episode, Pete Holmes and his wife Valerie (with frequent chimes from Katie) explore the secret weirdness of everyday life, focusing on parenting, personal trauma, the influence of media on children, and living with one’s “shadow.” The trio weaves between playful banter and deeper psychological reflections, using recent family experiences and Pete’s interview with Rabbi Mordecai Finley as springboards for discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reconnecting, Parenting, and Secret Weirdness

• The episode opens with Pete and Valerie discussing their energy after a recording break, emphasizing the mini-therapeutic function of these chats and the value of reconnecting.
• Valerie is “Whole30-ing,” eating browning apples—sparking Pete’s comedic monologue and teasing.
• The conversation veers delightfully into the weird: the odd feeling of sudden loud noises (startle reflex) and Pete’s self-characterization as a “Victorian ninny” (06:39), leading into discussions about childhood trauma and its behavioral manifestations.

2. Early Childhood Trauma & Startle Responses

• Valerie: “I read that being easily startled is like a symptom of early childhood trauma.” (08:21)
• Pete and Valerie explore how these early experiences follow into adulthood, discussing their parenting approach for their daughter Leela and how trauma surfaces during family routines.

3. Parenting: Guilt, Peer Pressure, and Screen Time

• Pete shares how expectations about “good” parenting (protecting Leela from screen violence or overindulgence) are a minefield of inner and outer pressures, often compounded by peer judgments.

• The group discusses their daughter Leela’s growing interest in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TMNT), reflecting on the complexity of censoring media: wanting to shield her but also allow her experiences.

  • Valerie: “Do you know what I said? It wasn’t handled… beautifully. I just don’t know how to handle…” (18:11)
  • Pete responds: "I think that was beautiful. You were honest." (19:04)

• The challenge of distinguishing between nature and nurture in "boy stuff," violence, and how clean data is elusive.

  • Pete: “You give a lot of boys a stick, they just turn it into a spear... but how can we get clean data on that?” (19:39)

4. Screen Time, Violence, and Micro-Violence

• Pete brings up a poignant insight from Rabbi Mordecai Finley:

  • "He said... the only way to disarm that force... that might be stopping you... is to give wisdom. It can’t handle wisdom." (15:12)

• They reflect on parents’ tendency to signal virtue (“we don’t let our kids watch that!”), arguing that such behaviors can be their own form of “micro-violence.”

  • Pete: “That’s the same type of violence, micro violence, that they’re trying to protect their kids from. So it’s coming in again through the back door.” (24:17)

• Hilarious Moment: Pete’s impression of Sam Elliott as a beef commercial voice, “Micro violence: it’s what’s for dinner!” (24:28)

5. Engaging with the Shadow: Violence, Horror, and Parenting

• Valerie and Pete dive into Carl Jung’s notion of the shadow, questioning if negative energies or fears are “put in us” by media or “drawn out" because they already exist in us:

  • Pete: “These energies are in us, and they crave expression.” (33:11)

• A discussion follows about letting kids approach “the dark side”—scary movies, nightmares, anger—in a safe context, rather than banning or ignoring them:

  • Valerie: “There is an appreciation of the dark side of things and letting that dance.” (34:46)
  • Pete: “A lot of the people I know that love horror movies and stuff are sweeties... very dark comedy are sweeties.” (34:56)

6. Inclusion, Boundaries, and Tricky People

• The trio highlights the modern approach to “stranger danger”—teaching about “tricky people” instead, and the subtlety of dangers found in familiar relationships.
  • Pete: “Look out for tricky people. Because often the people that abuse people are someone you know…” (38:03)

7. Violence, Veganism, and Through, Not Around

• The group reflects on the violence implicit in everyday life—whether in meat-eating, “virtuous” veganism, or social interactions—and the illusion of moral high ground.
  • Pete: “As long as we have battlefields, we’ll have slaughterhouses... the fundamental us vs them, kill or be killed... is what’s going on here.” (48:14)
• The hosts agree on integrating and observing their darker impulses with kindness instead of denial or repression.
  • Valerie: “I think you can go through with kindness. That is true kindness to the part of you that wants to kill.” (55:11)
  • Pete: “You forgive it ... you don’t condemn it or dissociate even from it.” (55:29)

8. Personal Habits, Diets, and Everyday Joys

• Pete and Valerie discuss the impact of the Whole30 diet, fasting, and returning to eating meat on their energy, mood, and anxiety.
  • Valerie: “Both of us have been a lot more even... I just keep having moments where I'm like, wait, am I gonna... am I okay? And I just, like, am.” (61:16)
• They talk about challenges sleep-training a five-year-old, boundary-setting in the family bed, and the importance of attending to marriage alongside parenting.

9. Everyday Addictions and Delight

• The episode ends playfully, with Pete riffing on the joy of being “addicted” to coffee.
  • Pete: "I love being addicted to coffee. People say, don't get addicted to coffee. And I'm like, why not? It's everywhere." (66:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wisdom Disarming Inner Resistance:
  • Pete (paraphrasing Rabbi Finley): "The only way to disarm that force... is to give wisdom. It can't handle wisdom." (15:12)
• On Virtue and Violence:
  • Pete: "If you don't eat meat, and then use that for violence to make other people feel bad, it's the same... I'm eating tofu. I didn't kill the chicken, but I'm killing you." (48:14)
• On Parenting Goals:
  • Rabbi Finley (via Pete): "Isn't your goal really... to have Leela be the sort of person that will come to you when she needs help?" (26:04)
• On Daily Joys:
  • Pete: "I end most days thinking, I can't wait for tomorrow's coffee. It's like such a little sunrise. And I love being addicted to coffee." (66:42)
• On Embracing the Dark and Light:
  • Valerie: "So I will be an ambassador for the light. I just will." (59:07)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:04–04:44 – Banter, Whole30, setting up apples, food talk
• 06:39–08:21 – Startle reflex, trauma, Victorian ninny
• 15:12 – Disarming resistance with wisdom (Rabbi Finley insight)
• 18:01–24:35 – Discussion: TMNT, screen violence, micro-violence, virtue signaling
• 24:28–25:08 – "Micro-violence: it's what's for dinner" (Sam Elliott impression & riff)
• 33:11–34:56 – Theory: negative energies, needing expression, the appeal of the dark side
• 38:03–39:02 – Stranger danger, tricky people, family safety conversations
• 44:23–45:18 – Integrating horror/light-dark, Course in Miracles, violence/beauty
• 55:00–56:18 – Accepting and forgiving the shadow, kindness to all parts of self
• 61:06–61:49 – Even moods on Whole30 and sugar withdrawal
• 66:42–67:36 – Pete’s coffee addiction and delight

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Tone & Style

• The conversation flows with Pete’s characteristic warmth, humor, and willingness to be vulnerable. Valerie provides thoughtful reflection and openness about her own journey, especially around parenting and trauma. Katie adds supportive, affirming comments, keeping the energy collaborative and grounded.
• The pace swings from goofy (Sam Elliott impressions, banter) to earnest (discussions on trauma, virtue, the “shadow”), making this episode both entertaining and richly thought-provoking.

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For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode is quintessential We Made It Weird: deeply funny, candid, occasionally profound, and always circling the question of how to be a better human—by owning all the weirdness, light, and darkness inside us.

Standout segments: Pete’s reflections on Rabbi Finley’s wisdom, their candid navigation of parenting pitfalls, and the group’s honest grappling with both everyday and existential “weirdness.”

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Keep it crispy.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with.

[Katie]

You made it with. You made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? Welcome to We Made It Weird. This is a great one. I love this one. We weren't here last week. Got a little week week break just because we couldn't do it.

[Valerie]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm so glad we did. I was excited and it did not disappoint. As I always say, I feel so much better after these chats than I did going into it. It's so fun connecting with you. Thank you, Valerie.

[Valerie]

You're welcome.

[Pete Holmes]

And my special, my Netflix special is coming out. My God, like Tuesday? Is it Tuesday the 24th? The 24th on netflix.com. please, please, please watch it, then leave it on loop on your TV when you're at work. It's called I am not for Everybody. I also have some tour dates on PeteHomes.com I'll be in Bloomington, Chicago, Washington, DC. As I've been saying, this is a.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

New hour, so if you just saw.

[Pete Holmes]

Me in any of those cities, this will be a different hour than you saw. And I'm really excited about this hour. And as you know, we only do ads for things that we actually use and actually love and. And that is the mid roll. So try a Pete's pick. Support the show, Support your life, Katie. Roll it.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

This episode is brought to us by our friends at Brain fm. I was just using Brain fm. This is a new pizza pick. It's a part of my daily creative routine for years, and I'm so happy to be partnering with them.

[Pete Holmes]

What is it?

[Ad/Promo Voice]

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[Pete Holmes]

What is it?

[Ad/Promo Voice]

On the surface, it seems just like an app that gives you the perfect background music for creative work, study, reading, meditation, relaxation and sleep. And that is true. It is incredible music to work or read or meditate to. But under the surface, it's so much more than that. Brain FM's composers work hard to create amazing Sounding music that doesn't distract and uses their patented audio technology to boost your mental states. On demand. Brain FM scientists and composers add patterns to their music that change the patterns in your brain, creating increased blood flow and electrical activity in the brain and increasing focus in as little as five minutes. Regular music is of course, designed to distract you, so you're constantly having to stop. Skip songs, change songs, pulling you out of that flow. Now, with Brain fm, you don't have to think about it at all. You can stop the skipping. Brain FM has a wide variety of sounds and genres, from nature soundscapes to lo fi electronic music that get you in that zone almost immediately without having to pick the perfect playlist. And it's science backed. Brain FM actually has the scientific research to back up their claims through close collaboration with neuroscientists and a wide array of field experiments and testing. And it's not made by computers. It's made by actual human multi instrumentalist composers. So get in that flow. Get the perfect work music. Get those patterns into your brain to increase that flow and creativity and that focus or that relaxation or that meditation. Go to Brain FM weird and you'll get 30 off your first year of Brain FM and start getting more done with less effort and unlock your best self on demand. Experience the difference that the right music can make in your life. Brain FM weird for 30 off your first year.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, everybody, let's get into it. I love this one. Let's get into it.

[Katie]

Okay.

[Valerie]

Get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, lose the tude. Val is eating apples. She's doing whole 30. So she's got a little sad. Just the saddest little plate of kind of browning apples. Those apples have been out for a minute.

[Valerie]

It's taken me this long to get through.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really? And just a little ramekin. That's a fun word, isn't it?

[Valerie]

Ramekin.

[Pete Holmes]

Ramekin. And in Hinduism it's ramekin. Okay.

[Valerie]

And it's a high hol. I think it's ramekin.

[Pete Holmes]

We're fasting for ramekin, which is funny because these ramekins are filled with almond butter and that's what yours are. I was gonna say that before. You can keep crunching. This is a little monologue I'll do.

[Katie]

Okay.

[Valerie]

Let's face it, you were gonna do one anyway.

[Pete Holmes]

Just let me know how much lemonade is in this Arnold Palmer today. Is it a sour drink? Is it what if this is how I talk to you? Is it a sour. Is it an acrid kind of taste? I Was gonna say that I started to move your little mic, your microphone on the little arm there over, and it bumped into your enormous. Are we mad at each other? We're not. We're not. Is the podcast, like, where we let it out. You're huge water bottle? It is so big. And I didn't know I had a problem with it. But then we start rolling and the real feels come out. But no, it's large and very tall. Hey, you like big, tall things.

[Valerie]

Anyway, tall glasses of water.

[Pete Holmes]

And the arm of the micromophone bumped into it and almost knocked it over. And I just wanted to say, for the record, that I am like a. I'm like a Victorian ninny when it comes to. When it comes. When it comes to, like, startling. And I'm not even getting us into my sound trauma or all that, well, trodden ground. I'm just saying completely separate. If things startle me, I. In one skittle is baked in, like, extreme shock. Like, I'm aghast.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm like, angry that I'm scared. And it happens in 0.01. No exaggeration. It's so fast. But if you look at my face, it goes from like. Like clutching my pearls, cinching my robe, like, oh, he drops the picture of sangria. And then I'm like. Immediately as we. Now we are in, well, trodden ground. But my protector comes out and was like, nobody's.

[Katie]

Yeah, nobody's gonna scare us.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I was. I yelped like a lady in the bath was just too cold.

[Valerie]

Victorian ninny.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm a Victorian ninny. And I wish. No, I don't. Well, I don't mind.

[Valerie]

You know what?

[Pete Holmes]

Victorian ninny?

[Valerie]

I read something about. What do you want me to say? Okay, Word for word. I can't remember.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, you're in the interrogation room.

[Valerie]

But I. It was about.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it weird that human beings will favor this instead of silence? Like, silence is so uncomfortable. We'll be like, you know what's better?

[Valerie]

I know. Like, just keep the voice going.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Maintain your share of the conversation.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What is that? What is that? What is that? What is it? What is it?

[Valerie]

Don't let them know that you're thinking of what you're saying, because how is embarrassing.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactamundo. In the Prundo Italy. The Prundo.

[Valerie]

I read that being easily startled is like a symptom of early childhood trauma.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, man. I know. Now we're in that old familiar shoe.

[Valerie]

And we don't have to go in the shoe. But I.

[Pete Holmes]

We're just asking the shoe.

[Valerie]

It is different and it's interesting because you do have the sound trauma, which we've already covered, but you do have a startle. And with Brody, like when he startles you, that's when it's.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's why it's so. And we're not. We're going to move on from this. I'm giving myself a 10 second limb.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This Brody talk. But like, it's not just the noise, it's the. My response is so unsettling.

[Katie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm like in swarms my ego to be like, that's, that's not us. Because, like, what was I saying? Like, I was telling somebody yesterday that like, one of the only ways that I'm cool is that like we'll be piano sitting down to watch TV at the end of the day. And it's really just because we have a, a wonderful baby. A child.

[Valerie]

A five year old baby.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, as long as I'm putting its shoes on.

[Valerie]

Oh, I know.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Yeah, baby.

[Valerie]

She is a 5 year old baby. Not all 5 year olds are babies.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Yeah, baby.

[Valerie]

We babied this one. Whoops. A daisy.

[Pete Holmes]

I always just think I was rocking.

[Valerie]

Her to sleep at 1 in the morning.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Last night.

[Pete Holmes]

I always just think like fractionally, you.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Know, when I'm feeling a little caught.

[Pete Holmes]

Up, tangled in the spider web of life, I, I expected more. I, I think fractionally. And I'm just like so much of Leela's life. And this is our trap. She'll be putting on her own shoes and she'll not be rocked. And she won't with all these things. So I'm just like, yeah, it's fine, it's fine. And it is gonna work itself out. I told you that. Rabbi Mordecai Finley came on the POD this week and it was one of the greats. Just one of the greatest chats of my life. And kind of interestingly, I think, is that like the first, I'm gonna say 15 minutes I was like, where are we? Where, where is our connection?

[Valerie]

Where do we stand, man?

[Pete Holmes]

Literally, I wanted to be like, are you okay with me?

[Valerie]

How many times during every interaction do I want to just say that?

[Pete Holmes]

Are you okay with me?

[Valerie]

Are you okay with me, buddy?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you know, it was an interesting. For fans of the podcast, which is people listening, I hope. It's interesting to see we've all spent so much time together by now we all kind of know I Consider the beginning of the podcast to be this, like, grab bag. And the easiest part, we're both kind of excited. There's a riff dump. But then, you know, they'll start saying something. And not to overanalyze it, but they'll say something, and I'll. And I'll throw something out and see if they kind of bite, you know, like, oh, that's kind of like this.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Rabbi Findlay, again, keep in mind, I am now enamored with this person. So this isn't shit talk, but I would be kind of like, I think he said something about it doesn't matter, but I kind of tried to tie it to, like, the collective unconscious or something, and he was like, not only not, not biting, but he'd kind of be like, no. Yeah, like, that's not what I'm saying. Just like a very, like, almost litigious. Yeah, like sharp. And he's a black belt. What? Well, what's that face? They can't see that face.

[Valerie]

I know. And they shouldn't see that face.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean that's like a rabbinical style? I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that's exact. Jewish tradition is going, like, what does it say? Let's discuss it. Let's be clear. Let's debate. I think that's a virtue. And so I think you're in. In. Fair, fair, fair. Fair. Fair Fair play to ya.

[Valerie]

Was it us that we were?

[Pete Holmes]

Was it us?

[Valerie]

Was it us? Shoot, I'm not gonna be able to think of it. I think it was. It was. Never mind. I can't think of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Really.

[Katie]

Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Valerie]

Oh, no, I got it. I got it. Jimmy Glick on.

[Pete Holmes]

It's either Glick or Cricket.

[Valerie]

If it's Glick, I'll click it. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

When it comes to Jiminy's, it's either Glick or Cricket. Cricket.

[Valerie]

And if it's Glick, if it's Jiminy.

[Pete Holmes]

Glick, you know, I'm gonna click it. That was like 1982 lame guy rep.

[Valerie]

It's his interview with Larry David, and he's like, just, of course, keeps talking about Jews and, like, making anti Semitic jokes. And then finally he says something about like, I better whatever or you'll sue me. And he's like, and. And Larry David goes, okay, if you make one more antisemitic comment, I'm outta here. And he's like, okay, so I'll just pretend like your people aren't litigious.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow, litigious.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

That's why it made Me think, whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, maybe that is. It doesn't. Let's move on.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

We're moving on.

[Valerie]

We're moving.

[Pete Holmes]

Because what ended up happening was. And I really think it's worth. I'm gonna listen to it, because the question I want to plant in every listener's mind is, when does it change? Because it does. And there's moments I have different theories. At one point, I say to Katie. I go, I'm going to have Katie notarize this next question. Because he was answering me so literally and so kind of tight. Again, he's a black belt in jiu jitsu. He's a real alpha man. And I like alpha guys. I tend to.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll go into the student role. And that's. And that's one of my theories, too, is when I started kind of, like, showing. He said at one point, talking about resistance, and there's a Hebrew word for it, but this force that is pulling us in the wrong direction that we all have inside of us. And he said, it speaks in slogans. It's quick, it's smart, but it is not wise. And I stopped him, and I was like, oh, my God, we need to, like, unpack that for, like, 45 minutes. That's genius. And he was like, thank you. It took me a long time to come up with that meaning wisdom. And, like, perennial wisdom. And, like, it can't combat that. So the only way to disarm that force that might be stopping you from quitting the job or finding the love of your life or whatever it is. But we all know. I do.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That there's something dragging us. And the way to, like, get it to shut the F up is to give wisdom. It can't handle wisdom. And I was like, that was great. And I think that might have been the moment.

[Katie]

Wow.

[Valerie]

What's an example of it? Like, speaking in slogans. That was interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Well, you know, we had a long chat about that, where it's like your. Your inner resistance is a little bit like a politician. And we'll. We'll say, like, quick and easy to.

[Valerie]

Understand truths, which is like, if it's quick and easy, it's probably not very true.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And I. We didn't go this way, but I think we're talking about, like, you know, life is short.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And so you eat a whole yolo. Yeah, yolo. Exactly.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yolo is even easier.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's fine. But, like, he was just, like, such a. Like a sculpture of a person, just, like, immaculate. And I really enjoyed him and he. We. This won't spoil anything. It's. It's. It's a must Listen episode. Even if I tried to tell everybody every beat of it, I couldn't. Meaning, I'm gonna listen to it again.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But Leela has been really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which has been meaningful to me, having grown up with the. With the tmnt.

[Valerie]

I did, too. And I loved them, so it is.

[Pete Holmes]

This is me versus you. I know.

[Valerie]

No, I know. But I'm just saying, for the record, I also feel the pull to be like, she's into something cool that I was into.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have a real, like, I have this feeling. I don't know if I've ever articulated this to you, but I'm like, God knows the boys are out there mainlining this stuff.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't want Leela to be. It's funny that we shelter her from putting her on her own shoes on, but, like, there is some, like, coarse language or whatever. Like, they might say, shut up or this or that. And I'm like, yeah, okay. Little drops, little drips of this. She's not seeing it in her three dimensional life. So we'll see it here. Because when I Sometimes when Leela plays with, like, not the cousins, but the friends of the cousins, there's just, like, wild feral boys running around, and it's just insane.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, maybe, you know, put a little peanut butter in your baby's food every month for the first couple of years so they don't get a peanut allergy.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Let's not have a be shot just, like, clutching her pearl.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. Comes across it like, the French are with wine.

[Katie]

So.

[Pete Holmes]

But you and I agreed that. We were like, I don't. We. We agreed. We were like, this show's too much.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I actually.

[Valerie]

It's a 2012 one. I like it, too.

[Pete Holmes]

We both like it.

[Valerie]

It's well done.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's very funny. I think it's legitimately legit, legitly well animated, well made, well shot, all that stuff.

[Valerie]

But it's pretty violent. There's like.

[Pete Holmes]

They cut away. Yeah. There's laser guns. There's laser guns. And as if that makes it not.

[Valerie]

A gun, which she and I had a conversation about that because I saw in the icon. I was like, what is he holding? And she was like, a gun. And I was like, yeah, I just. I don't love guns. I. And she was like, but he's shooting a bad guy. And I was like, do you know, I said something about, like, it wasn't handled. This isn't a story where I handled it beautifully. Like, I was. I was wrestling with it in real time, and I was like, I just. I'm afraid if you see guns on tv, then if you see one in real life, you're gonna think that you can touch it. And she's like, I won't. I'll never touch a gun. And I was like, yeah, I. I understand. It was just so clumsy. I just don't know how to handle.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that was beautiful. You were honest.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just like, look, the truth is, I don't want you to be desensitized to guns. She's not going to understand that.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And also, guns aren't here. Here's two things that are true. Guns aren't cool. You know, they're. They kill people. And then there is. This goes back to my boys, girls thing. Or you could just say masculine leaning femininely. Whatever you want to say. It's not. It's not. Yeah. Confused here. You know, you give a lot of boys a stick, they just turn it into a spear. There's like a genetic. Again, I don't want to.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to get. Step on anybody's toes.

[Valerie]

Well, because we also don't know how much of it is nature and how much of it is.

[Pete Holmes]

You're absolutely right.

[Valerie]

They're being exposed.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll add to that people that go around and being like, you give boys sticks, they turn them into spears. I just don't know how we're gonna get, like, clean data on that.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? It's really, really hard to get clean data on anything. That's actually one of the weirdest things about being alive is like, you and I started eating a little bit of meat, and when we were, like, easing back into some chicken and stuff, I remember saying to Ethan Suplee, I was like, but what about the China Study? There was the China Study, which the emperor of China a long time ago got cancer, and then he did a study of all of China, and he was like, where's the least amount of cancer? And they found that it was the people that were eating a mostly vegetarian diet. And they were like, oh, okay. Or like, other health things as well, heart disease and stuff. And I was like, what do you. What do you do about that? Like, Ethan eats, like, I think eat something like 12 chicken breasts a day.

[Katie]

Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

Because he's a. He's a bodybuilder, you know.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, that's normal. I'm just saying that's why.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was like, yeah, but there's a lot of other factors. And I was like, you know, what's interesting is you can kind of always say that.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, what else were they doing? What was the air? What was the soil? What was their environment, their emotional. So it's not said enough. And I'm glad you're saying it is that it's like, how do we kind of know anything? We're doing our best guess on. On a lot of stuff. And I know some people are probably like, that's not true. There's data. There's data. There's data. And there is. And then when you get in more subtle things, which is what we're coming to, like screen time and Ninja Turtles. But what were you gonna say?

[Valerie]

Well, dropping the meat thing. Just in general. Also.

[Pete Holmes]

Sound of a stake hitting the floor.

[Valerie]

Also in general, like, it gets more complicated too, by, like, who funded the study? Of course, like, that's constant. You know, we. You see that in, like, the staircase. It's like that. That's obviously a different.

[Pete Holmes]

The documentary situation.

[Valerie]

But it's like, oh, you can have. If it's on your side, you can have any expert.

[Pete Holmes]

You're so right.

[Valerie]

Find the truth that's beneficial to your.

[Pete Holmes]

Funnier. To me, that's an exaggeration. But nothing is funnier than lawyers tucking their ties into their shirt with a mannequin covered in fake blood. And they're in a warehouse hitting it. And that's their job. Trying to recreate a blood spatter.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so funny to me.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's kind of. We could say it's darling or pathetic.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it is. And basically, what's so annoying about lawyers is that they blow holes in the provability of any idea.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

She could have done this. You don't know. Whoever hit them didn't hit them behind their back while kicking the table. You don't know.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's almost like the mob. It's like you didn't see it. You didn't see it. I fell. And this guy had a gun pointed at himself, and he was scared when he saw me fall and he shot himself.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, prove that didn't happen.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's what they're doing. And that's deeply funny. To that end, it's like clickbait, like headlines, like, the story. And I'm not saying you and I have experiential knowledge that, like, looking at our screens makes us Unhappy. And I, I'm the first to be like, comparison.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Compare and despair, as they say in the program, which I'm not in the program, but I absorb a lot of it. Compare and despair is a big one. So Instagram is just the compare and despair machine. So it makes you depressed, makes you anxious. It's also just overstimulating. I get it. I. I have that experience. But when it comes to like, I want to. I actually want to make this point again. We were talking about how parents will want to protect their children from the evils of the world by limiting their ability to watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. But then the same parents will kind of virtue signal to other parents who maybe are letting their kids watch Ninja Turtles because they're so tired. They'll be like, well, we don't. We don't do that. And that's the same type of violence, micro violence that they're trying to protect their kids from. So it's coming. Come in again through the back door. I've made that point before, but here's another level to it and me pointing that out. And my difference between me and these parents is another type of micro.

[Katie]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning when I say micro violence, I don't even mean it's something we need to stop. No, I'm saying it's what's for dinner. It's what's going around.

[Valerie]

Micro violence. It's what's for dinner.

[Pete Holmes]

Micro violence. The dude bites. I could have his job.

[Valerie]

That was really good.

[Pete Holmes]

It was very good.

[Valerie]

It was very good.

[Pete Holmes]

It was very good. That's like one of the most high paid voiceover bands I know. I can do it.

[Valerie]

Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

Just give me the job.

[Valerie]

I've never seen you do Sam Elliott.

[Pete Holmes]

It's fun that we have a new thing to do in bed.

[Valerie]

I was just gonna say bring it to the bedroom.

[Pete Holmes]

I bet he has a thin. Okay, let's move on. What if he just has another mustache for his pubis? His pubis is the same exact cut.

[Valerie]

Pubis.

[Pete Holmes]

Pubis. And theses are two words that I enjoy saying anyway. The punchline.

[Valerie]

Yeah, to the Ninja Turtles. That's what I was going to bring it back to.

[Pete Holmes]

That it was just kind of like what I almost said. Father. What Rabbi Finling said was parents. And I think this is just true for all peoples in every realm of our lives. Very helpful to ask, what is your goal? And you know, you might. I. I was like, well, you know, to teach Leela to. That the real world is more interesting than the iPad and he's like, but it's not. It's not. She would. She wants to watch the iPad. He's kind of like that. It's like she just wants to watch it. And then he goes, isn't your goal really. Isn't a bigger goal to have Leela be the sort of person that will come to you when she needs help?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, oh, my God. And look, I've thought about this episode a lot since we've. Since I recorded it, and I can kind of find counter arguments more than I could in the moment. So I do think it's a middle way for sure. It's a balance. But I like the energy he's bringing to it, which is. He told a story about parents who are frustrated that their kids are playing video games. And he said, what game are they playing? And he said, I don't know. He's always trying to tell me about it, but. And he goes, so wait, your son is, like, passionate about something and is always trying to include you in it, and you don't even know what the game is.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was talking about.

[Katie]

People.

[Pete Holmes]

You. And I, look, when I'm angry, I like watching John Wick movies. Like, I come home after a visit, and there's just all of this, like, visiting your family. Yeah.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Blockage. That can really, only for me privately be sort of cleared by watching the most decisive. Let's get these zombies out of the attic. Bang, bang, boom. It has to be sensationalized enough so nobody wants to see someone actually getting shot. But, you know, bye, bye, boo boo. And it's fun. It's like a. It's like an elegant dance in beautiful suits. It's a little silly, but it helps me kind of move the. The clog along. So too. Bran is for me now. So. So too.

[Valerie]

That's just become the catchphrase of this podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too. And that could be true. We have our catchphrases.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Leela is trying to. And I know there's a million takes on this, but Leela is trying to.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

What did he say?

[Pete Holmes]

Conceptualize her potential for violence.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So she feel. It's like, what do you do with the mad that you feel?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And watching. Anyway, you're gonna have to listen to it. But he. He was like, let your kid watch Ninja Turtles. And it was so fun. You would have thought a million to one, this would be the guy that would be like, take the iPad and put it in the garbage disposal.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And tell them to go outside and rake and earn Their keep. Like, you would think with that. He was like, no, you sit down with the kid and you go, look, I think you want to pass the fifth grade. Right. So what do you need to do to pass the fifth grade or sixth grade? Whatever. Can we agree that that's important to do?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. So how much time do you need to do your homework? This. Can we agree that a good night's rest is important? Like, you need rest. So how much of your day needs to be sleep. Okay. And then strategize with them how to get the most whatever call of duty time that they can have. And then you do have a kid who. And this is definitely something I didn't realize, or I didn't put it this way, but my goal, and I know yours too, is have Leland know that there are things that are. That we have to kind of put a kibosh on. But for the most part, if there's something she's into.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And interested in, you know, I know you understand what I'm saying.

[Valerie]

I do.

[Pete Holmes]

We want her to come to us and be like, oh, you're the guy that helped me watch Ninja Turtles. Even as I'm saying this, I. I could have easily been persuaded to be like, those images lead to the. But I also have my own experiential knowledge where I'm like, I was watching way worse.

[Valerie]

I know. But also, we don't have great nervous systems, so you and I. Yeah. And who knows if it's how. How much what we saw. I was. See, this is where I get funky.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because I was scared as a child so badly for so long. Like, I couldn't go to sleep. I was so scared. And it was like every scary thing I had ever. All those images would flood my head at night. And they still. I still am like that. That's why I can't watch stuff. Like, scary stuff. And I don't know if I don't think what I watched was the only factor. And maybe it wasn't. It was just like, I was going to be scared anyway because I was living in a reality where there was a devil and demons and people who had had experiences with demons and, like, that was being talked about. So that was going to happen anyway. But then, like, I did have the ammunition. And like you taught me from the four agreements or. No, not the four agreements. The four agreements of television, the four.

[Pete Holmes]

Seasons, the four arguments.

[Valerie]

Arguments against television is like, those images never leave your brain.

[Katie]

Well.

[Pete Holmes]

Because they were made in your brain. But you could unpack that. Yeah.

[Valerie]

But also, and I'm not arguing against this, I actually do like the general sentiment of, like, in general, if they're interested in something, be. This is like a Dr. Becky Kennedy thing, too. Who I really love, and I've been turning to a lot for answers, is, like, in every situation, sit, like, next to your child as opposed to across the table from your child. Meaning don't set up a situation where it's you trying to convince them of something and them trying to convince you of something. Like, sit on their side, establish that you're on their side, and, like, figure it out together.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear that.

[Valerie]

So I'm totally on board with that.

[Pete Holmes]

The, like, he also said, like, talk to them. Be like, is that scary? Do you like being scared?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And which we do. We were naturally doing that, I think. And so I showed her. After you told me about that episode. I mean.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

About that interview. I let her watch Ninja Turtles. And then, like, I even showed her the trailer to Coraline because, like, she'll love my niece and nephew. Love Coraline. She loves Nightmare Before Christmas. But, you know, like, it's like Coraline goes through the portal, and then her. She, like, gets eyeballs, sees her mom, and then her mom has button eyes and is, like, acting really weird. And I was just like, you know, do you. As she was watching the trailer, I was like, what do you think of this? And she was like, I can't take my eyes off of it. She's like, I. I like it so much. And I was like, yeah, I thought you would, you know, And. And, like, have you watched it with her yet? But we didn't watch the movie. But last night she had a nightmare. That was part of the reason why I was up with her. And this morning, she told me, I had the scariest dream where there were lots of you, but you had a really creepy face.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Coraline.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I was like, that got in there. And I was like, do you think it's. Cause we watched that with the button?

[Pete Holmes]

You know, this is an interesting quite. I gotta have Carl Jung on the podcast, but it's like, is he alive? He's been long dead. Val. That was a hot riff. Because these things I. Look, here's my theory. These energies are in us, and they crave expression.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you see them, and even when they scare you, and even when you dream about them, they took root because you needed them. You needed these symbols.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

For her anger and her sadness and her frustration. I watched Leela in gymnastics yesterday. There were just moments, you know you're her dad, and she's standing up, going, like, I want to go again. I want to go again. And, like, just no one acknowledged her. And I was like, that's hard.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Like, but she's got to go through those.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know, but that energy is in her. And then it might come out as, you know, do you want to pound some clay or bang the piano, as Mr. Rogers would say? But, like, so they're in there. I don't know if we're putting them in there or if we're finding their mates.

[Valerie]

I agree. Like, some sort of resonance. No, I'm totally with you.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think it would be interesting if you were like, that's just something. That's just a woman with button eyes. Unless you go, I know the woman with button eyes. And she is.

[Katie]

I. Yeah.

[Valerie]

And my brother and I talked about it because they. Their kids. They let their kids, like, watch a lot of, you know, like, air quote, scary things that we would have never been allowed to watch.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And Derek was like, it's Derek. My brother was like, it's really interesting to, like, think about. Like, we just didn't. We weren't allowed to watch anything that was basically, like, macabre because we just. It was like, that's too dark. That's scary. That's probably, like, satanic, even.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And so. But there is, like, a. An appreciation of the dark side of things and letting that dance.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

A lot of the people I know that love horror movies and stuff are sweeties. And a lot of the comics I know that do very dark comedy are sweeties. And that's kind of what I'm saying. I also don't know if there's a way around it. Meaning I never saw Gremlins. I still haven't seen Gremlins. I'm not interested, to be honest. And I know a lot of people are getting mad at me.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

But this. I file it under Goonies Pro Wrestling Diet, Mountain Dew, regular Mountain Dew cigarettes, massage chairs, bug zappers. Just kind of trash.

[Valerie]

Trash diet, Mountain Dew, Regular Mountain Dew.

[Pete Holmes]

Foot baths, cigarettes on the porch, ash trays, tab, the soda tab.

[Valerie]

Okay, we get it.

[Katie]

We get it.

[Valerie]

You're a snob.

[Pete Holmes]

Horror movies, Little Caesars, Pizza.

[Valerie]

Okay, but.

[Pete Holmes]

But Gremlins always just. Gremlins always seemed a little. Just too far from too far afield. Too on the nose. Yeah, I guess too on the nose. But anyway, I didn't see it. But then I would have nightmares that I was going to see it. I know, I've said this on the podcast before, so the nightmare wasn't Gremlins. It was just that I'm in the theater and Gremlins is playing, and I knew what a Gremlin looked like.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that was enough.

[Valerie]

So, like, there is also, you know, safe, scared.

[Pete Holmes]

It might be a nice thing. I don't know.

[Valerie]

That's true. But also what my therapist has told me about my own, like, what I let myself watch.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

She's like, you're. There's a level like, you just are dissociated when you're watching tv, and that's okay. But you are not in your body. You rarely are in your body when you're watching tv. So you're dissociating porn. And then your nervous system is reacting. If you're. Maybe only if you're a highly sensitive person or especially if you're a highly sensitive person, your nervous system is reacting to what you're seeing as if it's reality. And so it's a little bit wreaking havoc. But that's, like, why it's kind of fun because you're like, what is the.

[Pete Holmes]

What are the qualities of that havoc? And I. And you. And I will never know.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I just see it as kind of like a spiky Indiana Jones boulder that rolls through us. And I think there is some negative.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyone having this conversation would be dumb to be like, there's no negative to seeing Freddy Krueger. There is.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I wonder if it's a net positive that there's also just, like. I know, like, Leela goes, I like Shredder. And I was like, yeah, yeah.

[Katie]

She fun.

[Valerie]

And she changes the words to.

[Pete Holmes]

From the bad guys win to the good guys lose in the theme song.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what she thinks is so funny. Well, I want to talk about the tricky. I think. Have we talked about the tricky people thing? Anyway, two things. One is, I thought I had to white glove it and be like Leela. So they say, don't look. Don't teach stranger danger anymore. Because you say, look out for tricky people. Because often the people that abuse people are someone you know or a friend of a friend or family member, whatever.

[Valerie]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

So you. You know this. So you. You teach Leela tricky people. And I was like, some people will want you to keep a secret. Never keep a secret from mom and Dada and, you know, they might touch you and all this stuff. You have to, like, say it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm being very delicate. And then Leela Goes, yeah, because they might steal you and put you in a cage. And I was like, oh, wow. So she. I don't know where she got. She's certainly not watching that. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying is.

[Valerie]

I'm like, she might have seen.

[Pete Holmes]

She sees cages, and I don't know.

[Valerie]

If she or she might have seen, like, April o' Neill get stolen and put into a cage or something. Like, could be any little.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that show can be a little.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The other thing I was gonna say was we were at the zoo. I. I don't think I'll do this as a bit because it's a little too. I don't want to shame anybody. But, like, there was a woman, and she had on her legs, all over her legs, the most realistic horror portraits I've ever seen in my life.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Fred. Frederick Krueger, Jason without the mask. You know, like, just like. And, like, you know how you sometimes get, like, a photorealistic image of your daughter on your calf? Yeah, it was that, but it was like, Chucky drooling blood.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, cool choice. In your 20s. And now they're parents. So this, like, tattoo couple now have a baby boy, and he's crying and, like, clinging to his mom's legs, and I'm like, ain't no shelter there, baby. Also, when that baby came out, legs and stirrups, first thing you see is like, welcome to hell. Like, it's crazy.

[Valerie]

It is interesting.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But that is my mother's voice. My mom, if she had seen that.

[Valerie]

Oh, for.

[Pete Holmes]

Would have been like, wear pants. That is outrageous. Like.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I do want to.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you imagine?

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. She definitely would have.

[Pete Holmes]

You should wear long pants. You're scaring the children.

[Valerie]

I wonder, like, even in general, people who love Horror Films, Joe DeRosa. I'm just so interested in what makes Joe their experience is. And it really. Because also, actually, my brother does like horror films, and he is very much like me, where, like, anxiety is, like, the main issue. And, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

You know what I mean? Like, it's not like, depression or, like, whatever. It's like, we.

[Pete Holmes]

There's not a simple Simon that's just kind of like, I'm white bread and I feel nothing and I need to feel something. Yeah, he's feeling a lot.

[Valerie]

He's feeling a lot. And, like. And. But he. It help. It suits him to, like, climb into his fear in that way.

[Pete Holmes]

So much noise. There's no noise.

[Valerie]

But I also wonder, and I know women like horror Films, too. But to a certain degree, I'm like, is this a male thing? Because we're worried all, like, women just walk around worried that half the population will murder them.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But we're living in a horror film.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And then I remember seeing somewhere that, like, the female fantasy is usually, like, converting or, like, changing a monster. Like. Like, female porn is often, like, there's.

[Valerie]

Like, a dangerous conditioning for that, too. It was the angel in the house thing in, like, the Victorian era. And that's, like, what Beauty and the Beast is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. You want to tame the beast.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. Yeah. We'll never know how much was conditioning and how much was a different kind of conditioning, which is genetic or whatever it might be, but it's in the mix.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's what's for dinner.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And I just. Yeah, I. I think it's. I guess I do kind of understand it, because when I'm watching, the times that I've watched a horror film with friends, like, in a theater, it's so fun. It's like being on a roller coaster. But I don't understand why I. And not others. Like, then go home and lay in bed at night and think about those images for a year.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, me, too.

[Valerie]

And I don't know how other people don't. They just leave it. Like, they're able to just be like, it's not real.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. I mean, would have to ask them, because I'm like, you. I'll replay it. I do think there's something about. Look at it. Like, look at me.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, there is so much denial. And a horror movie couldn't be more opposite from Cocomelon.

[Valerie]

Right?

[Katie]

So.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's like, please be honest. Don't gaslight me.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm eating murder. Women bleed. I'm not trying to be funny. Have menstruation.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's death coming out of them. You know, an unused egg, I suppose, but, like, blood.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's just so much gaslighting. And some people go to Disneyland and it makes them sick to their stomach.

[Valerie]

I was gonna say it probably is. Like, maybe that's creepier. It's like Coraline's button.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, hello, sweetie, you know, like, well, think about Disneyland. I do. I do, all the time. You go, and again, Leila eats chicken as well. So we go and we feed her something at Disneyland that. I'm like, this thing had a fucking horrible life.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He was raised for slaughter. And it was. It was never named. Seems like a poem. This chicken was never named. And breaded and fried and fed to a baby while she's in line for the Little Mermaid ride. Like, there is something very David lynch like, look at it. And, and I've been talking a lot about this lately is my. Like I was saying with the ego, like, let's look at the micro violence of the ego. I would rather just call it violence because micro violence, as I'm saying, like even the small violence counts. I'm just saying violence is violence. That's full stop. Yeah, look at it. That's. That's what A Course in Miracles asks us to do. I don't think A Course in Miracles is asking us to watch horror movies. I think it's sort of asking us to wake up to the horror movie that we're in. The status, the status plays, the have and have not. The killer be killed and all that sort of stuff.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which by the way, just to kind of cut you off at the past. Not to cut you off, but to know that you know that I understand you. On that stage of ones and zeros and push and pull and winners and losers and up and down, there's indescribable beauty. I'm so with you.

[Valerie]

I. Yeah, I just, I'm more and more. I'm just like. There's both. There's horrendous travesties and tragedies and injustices and so much suffering and there's unspeakable beauty and a thousand gorgeous moments between people a day. And life is both light and dark and any. Anything that tells you that it's only one of them isn't really to be trusted.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I. And I. I don't think it is.

[Valerie]

No, I don't think it is either. I, I want to be clear about that.

[Pete Holmes]

I did get a little flustered. Oh, no, no, no. I would worry if you thought I was studying a thought system that is just. This is bullshit.

[Valerie]

Yeah, no, I don't think it is.

[Pete Holmes]

There are reflections of God's love, but there's something interesting. Man, I could talk about this forever because I don't know. I really don't know if I'm just a worse person than you.

[Valerie]

No, no, there's no way that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Hear me out. Or if I. The other one is self serving is me saying. Or if I'm just more in touch with my shadow. Oh, I've done the work. But like when I'm at the park and Leela and her little friends and we say we're gonna go get ice.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Cream, I see violence.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I. And I'm aware of my own intention. I don't necessarily say it for the other kids to hear. Here's a better example. It makes me less on the hook. I'm not saying to other kids who aren't gonna get ice cream, we're gonna go get ice cream. But if someone says, a little kid will often brag, you go to Leela, we're gonna go get ice cream. And Lila will be sad, oh, baby, we're getting ice cream, and it's okay. I'm not saying it's wrong or evil.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying it's what's for dinner. And I had a very interesting conversation yesterday with Jamie about how now that we are eating some meat, there's something about a little bit more honest for me. Meaning, like, I. I'm. I'm not opting out and saying, like, you guys are all over there. You know what I'm saying? I also thought it was interesting that, like, we should go to the break. We're already at 42 minutes. But, like, I do think it's funny that, like, even vegans will kill a parade of ants. And I know as a former vegan that that's an annoying argument.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But where do you draw the line? And I don't think the solution is to include ants, because that's what's for dinner. I know, but, like, you harvest almonds, you're killing bunnies. And what about the workers that were. Their lives were being sacrificed with long hours, and it might be migrant workers and all this sort of. There's so much violence. And really, the issue isn't meat or not meat. Although I think veganism is a beautiful and virtuous choice. I do. I don't think that's really getting to the core of it. The issue, and this is very coarse in miracles, is your mind. Like, what do you believe and do you. Can you convert how you're seeing the world? And if you don't eat meat and then use that for violence to make other people feel bad, it's the same. You know, it's like nothing is really being evened out. We've just changed where the murder's happening. I'm eating tofu. I didn't kill the chicken, but I'm killing you.

[Valerie]

I'm making you suffer right now to hear about it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I can also understand on the objective level, the chicken didn't die. Potentially, you'd have to. You know, that's economics. I can't get into whether or not they spare a chicken because there's a vegan. But, like, there's something where. It's the horror thing. It's through, not around. It's what we're always talking about. I would. Ten years ago, I never would have been like, if someone says to Leela, we're getting ice cream, that there's a flamethrower in me that goes, we're gonna get two ice creams, because fuck you. But there is. And that voice is not me. Yeah, that's so important.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I let it. I let it speak so I can identify that the issue isn't meat or ice cream or virtue signaling. There's just a flawed thought system going. Leo Tolstoy said, as long as we have battlefields, we'll have slaughterhouses. Right? No, as long as we have slaughterhouses, we'll have battlefields. And I would flip it and say also true. As long as we have battlefields, we'll have slaughterhouses. Because that's what's for dinner. I'm sorry to keep saying that, but because the fundamental us versus them, kill or be killed, win or lose, zero sum. We're all three meals away from, you know, Armageddon is what's going on here. And the way to. The way. I don't know how to say this without being like, the way to enlightenment or something like that, but the way to.

[Valerie]

Wake up from it.

[Pete Holmes]

Wake up from it is through it, I'm finding. Not around. Where. Whereas in the past, I'd be like, oh, I don't. I don't care if. If that. It's like. No. There's a part of me that's like, fucking on fire.

[Katie]

Oh. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think he or it is not running the show.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And neither is Pete. And neither is Pete's good side. His nice side. You know what I mean? I'm killing you. Killing you with kindness. That is the best example of what I'm talking about. Killing you with kindness. That is a course in miracles. In a nutshell is we say kill them with kindness. You can still achieve your violent goals and you'll look virtuous. Welcome to the ego's thought system.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Okay, go to the Mid Rolls and then I have a lot to say.

[Pete Holmes]

Man, I gotta do more cocaine. This has been a great episode. All right, I'm gonna do a little bit more. Okay. We'll be right back in two minutes. This episode is brought to us by.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

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[Pete Holmes]

Get more Z's and more Zen in your life.

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[Pete Holmes]

We're back.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that is really. That does help me understand it and I'm. I totally agree with you that well, you'd better.

[Pete Holmes]

Or that's violent.

[Valerie]

That going through is the only way. I just also think there. I think you can go through with kindness. That is true kindness to the part of you that wants to kill. Like, all right.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you are kindness to the. That's what I'm saying. You forgive it. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. You don't condemn it or dissociate even from it. You go, that's it. It's okay.

[Valerie]

You don't even have to give it weight. You can just be like, yeah, that voice in there. We get two ice creams. Yeah, there's that voice.

[Pete Holmes]

What is. Except saying nothing is happening? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Or just being like that doesn't. I don't have to put that much weight on that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. You can't be underwater and separate yourself from. You just go, it's what's. It's what's happening. It's ok. I'm not going to give myself a hard time about it. There's another altitude we can fly at and strive. That's what I'm saying. It's. It's a good thing to be vegan, if you'd like.

[Valerie]

Well, I want to.

[Pete Holmes]

Forgiving it. Yeah.

[Valerie]

I want to go back to the. You know.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a great idea. I was just gonna say I did reverse cocaine, a sleep supplement called reverse cocaine. And you snort it and it makes you go to sleep. Oh, kezzies or something.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The first snortable nighttime supplement. Good.

[Valerie]

A name.

[Katie]

Coke.

[Valerie]

No, I can't think of it. I was trying to do like a slow cane. Slow cane. There you go.

[Pete Holmes]

Slow cane.

[Valerie]

Our friends, Chris is very, like, even more representative of this.

[Pete Holmes]

I believe this is a hell realm.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And he told me once, he was like, but it's good news that it's a hell realm because that means there are other realms. And this is like. It's like, this is what I mean. There's light and dark in this world. And some people take way more comfort in really looking at the dark, leaning into the dark, seeing the horror films, saying, this is a hell realm. Really believing that. Like, he truly takes more comfort in that than going to Disneyland, seeing the Disneyland of it all. Which is great. Like, it takes all types. And I'm so. And he.

[Pete Holmes]

It's.

[Valerie]

It's been a valuable contribution to me, to my life, to have him as a friend. And what you're saying about the. Like when you said, I'm not sure if you're a better person or I'm just more in touch with my shadow. There is a degree for sure I.

[Pete Holmes]

Am a better person.

[Valerie]

There's a degree for sure of fear, like, where I'm. I've. I've experienced such darkness that I felt like I couldn't climb myself out of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

That I'm like, don't lean into the darkness because then you might not come out.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm so drawn to you. You know what I mean? Like, I love your levels and they balance and, you know, complement my levels.

[Valerie]

Sure. And I thank you. And I think that they're. You know, I don't think that I'm. I think this is growth for me or change. I don't know if it's growth, but there was a time when I was like, that won't do. That means that I should climb into the darkness, that I should force myself in there because I'm afraid of it. And, you know, That I can't be afraid. Like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But I also think I have a healthy degree of. I know the darkness is there. Sometimes it comes and I can't avoid it. But there is light and dark. And so I will be an ambassador for the light. I just will.

[Pete Holmes]

That's Harold Ramis. Harold Ramos said to Judd, he goes, there's good guys and bad guys, which he was a very profound thinker. So he didn't mean it as black and white, but for a quote, he goes, there's good guys and bad guys. Just be a good guy. Yeah, it's that obvious if there's one or the other. And by the way, for how I am the Arnold Palmer that I am, I can forgive that. Meaning, allow it, work with it. You know, I think that doesn't mean I go around and do violence.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you, you're more lemonade, you know, sweeter. I know I used that analogy earlier for bitter, but you're a sweeter drink. And you can allow that. This, this is very like, if I were you, I'd be you.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And if. And. And I like saying that. But I also like saying, if I were me, I'd be me. And I have those levels and I belong and I contribute and that's okay. I'm doing what I do. It also does tie to, like, I'm so obsessed with you. We've been real in love lately. We're always in love. But, like, I do think the whole 30 thing has been like, cleaning me up in a certain way. Whole 30 is no dairy, no grains, no legumes, which sucks. Cause I can't eat peanut butter. I love it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No sugar and no.

[Katie]

I think that's it.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's five things we're forgetting one.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't matter. There's a lot of no's, but the correlation between what you're eating and how you're feeling is really interesting.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

One of the first things when I looked at ex vegan chat groups was that they were like, they started eating meat and a lot of people reported that it was grounding them and making them feel less anxious. I don't know if that's what it is, but, like, I do now have a more clear understanding of, like, what I eat and how I feel. Not just like, how I feel, like, with the food as energy, but, like, do I have anxiety, depression, etcetera?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Both of us.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been a lot more even.

[Valerie]

Both of us have been a lot more even. And I don't know if that's the meat. Or if it's just not having sugar really affects. Affects your hormones.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's the sugar in the dairy, to be honest.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I think so too. Because I. Yeah, we're. I just keep. I keep having moments where I'm like, wait, am I gonna. Am I okay? And I just, like, am.

[Pete Holmes]

I know as. Just as much as I was. I haven't been doing as much cardio as I usually was doing. Remember how I was? So, like, this is the solution. This is the solution.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm sure in a couple months I'll be saying that again.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

We all know what we should be doing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Just. Just rarely have time to do all of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, when you're doing such an extreme dietary thing, it's hard for me to also.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I just have a threshold. Maybe that's my resistance, but I have a threshold for excellence and it's low. I can't be immaculate.

[Valerie]

God, it would be so hard to live with you if you were immaculate in that way.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I think that's. Can be compulsive even. I don't know. I'm just speaking for me. So usually if I'm really. If I'm not eating fucking bread and sugar or cheese or any of that, I'm not. I'm not also gonna go for a 90 minute bike ride, you know, it's just not gonna happen.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it has been really interesting. I. I can't. And I'm doing it on top of the fasting. Like, I'm fasting today. And I have to say that combo has been really great for me.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

We're 20 days in. Basically we're 19 days.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. We're supposed to be in that really fucking rocking time. And I think maybe, maybe we are.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I haven't really noticed, like a turbo boost, but I have progressively started feeling better.

[Pete Holmes]

I will say I get up out of bed a lot easier. Like, I just. It's been a long time since I don't just sleep until the alarm.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I know now we're just talking, but I love it. Meaning I don't feel like I'm podcasting as much, but, like, I know one of the great keys to my next phase of life is to get up before you guys more consistently because Leela. Okay, so it's like point, case in point. It's almost 2:00' clock now, which means after this we're gonna go get Leela and then that's the rest of the day. And that's how I want it. That's what it is. It's what's for dinner. But this time goes by so quickly. I'm writing a script right now. Virtue signal. Violence. And I love that. But, like, I get up and I get like two hours after, like, everything's done, my morning routine, my blah, blah, blah. Then I get two hours to work, and then the rest of the day I'm kind of like fighting for time. And I'm like, if you just got up at 6, you'd have another 90 minutes. You could do all that work. You know, it's the same old thing that I always say. I haven't replied to an email in eight months.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? So I like that I get up with more energy in the morning.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I know it's hard to know if I have more energy because I've been up with Leila in the night.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you're getting more.

[Valerie]

She's starting to want to sleep in her own bed, which is really hard because I was all for it until I realized it results in her screaming out for me every night at midnight. And then I run down the hall and then I sleep the rest of the night in her bed after she.

[Pete Holmes]

Falls back asleep because she's so excited you're there.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Which takes usually about an hour.

[Pete Holmes]

You need some slow cane.

[Valerie]

I need slow cane. But I also just don't know what to do. Like, truly, if anybody has a 5 year old that they've successfully sleep trained because now it's. She's so old, there's no, like, there's no way to do it that I know of.

[Pete Holmes]

I know you don't. I'm the more rested of the two. Look, we. We do our shifts. But right now, for like the past year, it seems Lila's been like mom or nothing.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And she'll just say that to me. I'll be like, can dad I get up? No. Or rock you? It's like, no. So it's a place of privilege. Sleep privilege. The other white, white sheet privilege. It sounds like clan. I just meant sleepy.

[Valerie]

Yeah, Sleepy.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm over here going like, it will work itself out. I'm just like, it will, it will. She'll get more interested in having her own room. More play dates, more friends, more peer pressure. And also her desire for privacy is just gonna slowly click, click, click, click up. And she's not gonna wanna.

[Valerie]

But how long? A year? Like, how much longer?

[Pete Holmes]

Or she'll just get better at sleeping with us so she won't Be, like, as crowding on you, and then it won't be as big of a deal. So now we are just talking.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But I also do want to be aware of, like, my therapist was like, you know, when you get into a state where one parent, she's like, some families, it's like one parent sleeps with the child for so long, and they develop this sort of codependent, intimate relationship, and it sort of communicates that, like, that is the relationship of the household above the marriage. And I just don't want to get into that state either. It's only been, like, four nights, but I'm so tired.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding. Yeah. No. Welcome to hell. Welcome to a hell realm now. Welcome to parenting. I'm so with you.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's close on this observation. I end most days. I just wrote this down. I end most days thinking, I can't wait for tomorrow's coffee. It's like such a little sunrise.

[Katie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I love being addicted to coffee. So I wrote this down. I've probably said it on this podcast before, but I was like, I think it might be a bit. Which is like, I love being addicted to coffee. People say, don't get addicted to coffee. And I'm like, why not? It's everywhere. Not only are there coffee places everywhere.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

People just give it to you.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Go to church, they give you free coffee. If you're accused of murder and they bring you into an interrogation room, they bring you a cup of coffee. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. An addiction is addicted to it.

[Valerie]

Only an issue if you can't find it. Yeah, that's good.

[Pete Holmes]

You'll find it. Yeah, you'll find it and you'll love it. O.J. simpson was handcuffed, and he was like, pretty good coffee.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Valerie]

I think there's something there.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. Well, I thought it was done, but I'm just kidding.

[Valerie]

Oh, keep working on it. I think there.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep. Keep working on it.

[Valerie]

And keep it crispy.

[Katie]

It.