We Made It Weird #168

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Made It Weird #168" (March 8, 2024)

Podcast: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes
Featuring: Pete Holmes and Valerie (Val) Chaney
Date: March 8, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "We Made It Weird," Pete Holmes and his wife, Val, dive into their usual candid, humorous, and vulnerable weekly chat. They unpack the quirks and "weirdness" of their lives—ranging from social mishaps, issues of cultural sensitivity, learning and neuroplasticity, to a particularly revealing story about navigating a social disagreement with friends. The episode is rich with introspection, relationship wisdom, and the couple’s trademark playful bickering, inviting listeners into both the comedic and heartfelt corners of their marriage and friendships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Social Sensitivity, Appropriation, and Complexity (09:58 – 28:44)

• Pop Culture, Offense, and Shifting Sensitivities

  • Pete reflects on how societal boundaries of what’s considered 'offensive' shift over time, using TV’s “Succession” as an example of a show exploring taboo topics while also being widely acclaimed.
  • Pete: “Show business is just like our psyches… There are seasons, ebbs and flows… everything is just a projection of how we are, and we're inconsistent, constantly in flux.” (10:28)

• Appropriation: From Children’s Play to Sneakers

  • The couple discusses kids mimicking behaviors (e.g., the “Native American” cartoon call) without context, and how parenting involves gently teaching cultural sensitivity.
  • Debate on cultural appropriation: wearing a LeBron jersey vs. Jordans as a symbol of admiration or problematic appropriation?
  • Val: “When you wear a Batman T-shirt, you are trying to take on or appropriate those qualities…with LeBron, I imagine for people of color… it’s a different story.” (20:47–21:26)

• Nuanced Complexity of Social Progress

  • The difficulty of expecting a single, unanimous “group” opinion, e.g., there’s no “United Nations of Black Culture” to adjudicate these matters.
  • Pete: "Christians can't agree on any one thing. Republicans can't. That's right. So it's tricky when you start allowing, you know, who we're really in this thing. Like, how do you work as a planet?" (22:33)

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2. Learning, Neuroplasticity, and Adult Stagnation (29:29 – 34:44)

• Brain Plasticity is Lifelong

  • Debunking the myth that adult brains can’t learn new things; citing personal and anecdotal examples, including a 76-year-old in yoga class.
  • Val: “Aging is not as inevitable in that way as people think...the less they move their bodies, and then it definitely will get you. So I think that's true about brain plasticity too.” (31:18–32:32)

• The Importance of New Experiences

  • The value of adults engaging in childlike learning or “after-school activities” for mental growth and continued neuroplasticity.
  • Pete’s personal struggle: being tall makes roller skating particularly daunting but also illustrative of the “stakes” involved in embracing something new as an adult.

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3. Forming & Re-forming Habits: Pleasure and Motivation (34:51 – 36:26)

• Neural Pathways, Pleasure, and Repetition

  • Pete recounts a study on monkeys: stimulating pleasure during repeated motions makes new habits form faster, paralleling how associating satisfaction with exercise or learning strengthens habits more quickly.
  • Pete: “When I exercise now and I'm feeling really good afterwards, I tell myself…this is working out...pleasure center is stimulated and you try and bend your own monkey finger and say this is working out.” (34:13-34:44)

• Teaching Kids Meaning & Motivation

  • Sharing with Leela (their daughter) why school matters leads her to link learning with positive emotions.
  • Giving is receiving: Pete finds enormous satisfaction in expressing appreciation and giving (e.g., phoning comedian Gary Gulman just to praise his work).

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4. Vulnerability, Social Dynamics, & the Olympics Dinner Party Skirmish (43:03 – 88:20)

Setting the Scene

• Pete and Val detail Sunday dinner with friends, a microcosm for social triggers and relationship dynamics. Pete—craving connection through humor—is riffing about how the Olympics are “overrated.” As friends join in but then pivot the conversation, Pete feels misunderstood and under attack, prompting a chain of emotional reactions.

Anatomy of a Social Spiral

• Pete’s Perspective:

  • His core fear: “I’m too much” and won’t be accepted if people see the “real” (loud, emotional) him.
  • Humor as vulnerability: “If people don't understand my intent, it makes me feel very unsafe, and it makes me want to retreat.” (46:29)

• The Riff and the Misunderstanding:

  • Pete’s joke about the Olympics being overrated morphs into a riff about Greek history and philosophy. He feels the group is “roasting” him not playfully, but by missing his intent, and lashing out (“You guys stink!”).

  • Memorable Moment (53:51):
    Val: “You guys stink because we’re not coddling your ego?”
    Pete: “My full tilt was, I liked you better before you healed.”
    (Referring to Val’s growth making her bolder in calling him out.)

• Val’s Perspective:

  • Group harmony is paramount, and she feels compelled to defend the group, even at Pete’s expense.
  • Realizes the discomfort comes from not wanting to appear as someone “who married a misogynist.” (55:28)

Dissecting Protectors and Inner Children

• Both recognize their “protectors”—parts of their psyche designed to shield them—which become activated in conflict, causing overreactions rooted in childhood safety mechanisms.

  • Val (62:18): “My protector is group preservation at the cost of the person that I love the most at that table.”
  • Pete (65:01): “I'm in junior high, and two pretty girls are conspiring against soft, red-faced spit boy.”

The Repair

• The couple unpacks the aftermath and their emotional hangover. Rather than avoid or gloss over tension, they talk it through, apologize, and acknowledge growth in handling such conflicts.

  • They agree: next time, more vulnerability, less defensiveness; instead of “you guys stink,” say “this is my worst nightmare—I feel misunderstood.”

  • Val (78:54): “I'm sorry I betrayed you.”

  • Pete (84:08): “I feel misunderstood. I was just trying to make you laugh, and I feel like everyone's turning on me.”

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5. Takeaways on Friendship, Vulnerability, and Growth (82:17–90:47)

• Vulnerability IS Relationship

  • Pete, echoing wisdom from his friend Sam and from Val herself, realizes that being vulnerable—risking being misunderstood, making mistakes, and talking through them—is the heart of real connection and relationship (with friends or a spouse).

  • Pete (82:26): “Oh, that vulnerability and that risk of relationship is relationship.”

• Seeing the Other—The Thing You Love is the Thing That Drives You Nuts

  • Val reflects that what first attracts us (Pete’s big, bold ‘Kool Aid Man’ energy) can also become what most aggravates us, but it’s crucial to remember the original attraction and learn to self-regulate.
  • Val (90:12): “Often the thing that first drew you to that person is the thing that will drive you crazy later. And it's just remembering that that's what drew you to that person.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Evolution:

  • Pete (10:28): “Show business is just like our own psyches. There's areas we're green-lighting and there's areas that we're repressing...everything is just sort of this projection of how we are, and we're inconsistent, constantly in flux.”

• On Appropriation’s Ambiguity:

  • Val (21:24): “For people of color and for black people specifically, that [LeBron jersey] is… a symbol of my culture, my background, the oppression I’ve experienced, the obstacles I’ve overcome.”

• On Brain Plasticity & Growth:

  • Val (32:31): “We just stop doing [new things] as adults... I'm like, yeah, we need that... we’ve decided we’re running over the grooves again and again.”

• On Group Conflict and Repair:

  • Pete (58:43): “But to you, like, isn't it funny how we stink when he's wrong? ...Challenging. ...That person, as a friend, should be safe to say that…”

  • Val (78:54): “I’m sorry I betrayed you.”

  • Pete (82:26): “That vulnerability and that risk of relationship is relationship.”

• On Loving the Whole Person:

  • Val (90:12): “I just want to say, for the record…I am literally attracted to the wild card element of this guy.”

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Key Timestamps

• 09:58 – 28:44 — Deep dive on social sensitivity, offense, and appropriation
• 29:29 – 34:44 — Brain plasticity, adult learning, and necessity of new experiences
• 34:51 – 36:26 — How pleasure reinforces behavior (monkey/pleasure study)
• 43:03 – 88:20 — Dinner party story: jokes, misunderstandings, and the anatomy of hurt feelings and repair
• 82:17 – 90:47 — Reflections on vulnerability in friendship and partnerships

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Tone, Style, and Final Notes

The episode is conversational, funny, self-deprecating, and at times deeply sensitive. Pete and Val are candid about their psychological foibles and emotional triggers. They oscillate between playful banter and honest, sometimes raw discussions about marriage dynamics, social anxiety, personal growth, and the complicated but rewarding work of building real connection.

Above all, the episode offers a nuanced look at how even the silliest-seeming social skirmishes can reveal our deepest needs for acceptance, understanding, and belonging—whether at a Sunday dinner, in romance, or in the process of becoming who we hope to be.

"Keep it crispy!"

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What? What's happening, weirdos?

[A]

What? What's happening? My weed.

[B]

What's going on? It's the guy from the B52s. What's going on? It's the bonus app on Friday. We don't have a guest. It's Pete and his wife Chat and they catch up every week.

[A]

Got him. Like.

[B]

For those of you.

[A]

Too much.

[B]

I loved it.

[A]

Too much.

[B]

I realized that we're not entirely clear in the feed what the. What the. We made it. Weirds are so for those of you that clicked on this and it's your first episode Wednesday, we have a guest. Friday, Val is the guest. My wife. And we're having My wife. A wonderful catch up chat. And we're so glad you're here. And these are some of my absolute favorite episodes. This is 166. Can you believe it?

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

So come see me on the road. Petehomes.com or all the tickets. I'm really pushing May 4th in Los Angeles. The Netflix is a joke fest. Hope you can be there.

[A]

Star wars day.

[B]

That's right. We just added a Thursday night in Chicago because the other one sold out. Thank you so much PeteHomes.com for all those tickets. And March 23rd is the next Largo. Hope to see it. Largo. Go to largo-la.com the last one, Vald couldn't make it. And Adam Sandler was there, which is a supreme bummer.

[A]

Fucking I knew it.

[B]

And Neal Brennan was there. And we've had Laura Peak, who's so funny. It's just been incredible. They're always incredible. Please join us for that and if you like the show, support the show. It would mean a lot. Try one of these products that I actually use and actually love. Katie, roll those pre rolls. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Vida Coco. You might see me and Ryan drinking Vita Cocoa here on the set of I Love Vita Cocoa. Vita Coco is my favorite coconut water. It's the one that comes in the cardboard bottle. It's the one that comes in fun flavors. We got pineapple. We got original. We're talking about flavor. We're talking about a boost. It gives me a great boost in energy. It ups my mood. It's natural. It's not filled with chemicals or artificial sweeteners. It's from the earth. It tastes great and it's packed with nutrients. It's real, it's natural, it's from the earth, but it still tastes like a treat and it is hydrating as heck. 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[A]

Is this okay?

[B]

Because it sounded kind of like tribal. Yeah, it did, but it wasn't my intention. Do we have to start over?

[A]

No, it's fine.

[B]

I know it started to sound that way but it was because honestly I was in my bodies and it just felt good to I'm not gonna do it again.

[A]

It definitely seemed like you were gonna do it again.

[B]

But. But it. The. The intent. It's like.

[A]

The intent, I assure you, was non tribal.

[B]

The intent was non tribal. But what. Why did we uncover sound. What?

[A]

Just Brody's opening the door of this little pond. It's very cute.

[B]

I. It's fine. I just. I was about to make a really interesting. Like a deeply interesting kind of tribal, kind of anthropologic. Anthropomorphic.

[A]

Yeah, I know, but you don't have paws.

[B]

I wasn't. I don't have pause. I also don't have paws.

[A]

Yeah, you don't have paws in any sense of the word.

[B]

Well, it's funny, because that is one of the things I wanted to talk to you about. Which was what? That he's activating the train set. And you just know that it's getting my goat that we have this little muppet.

[A]

It's just cute to me.

[B]

Get under here, baby.

[A]

Brody.

[B]

There you go. Good boy.

[A]

Very. One day, very soon, Brody's gonna be dead and we're gonna miss this.

[B]

Don't. You know, don't. Don't even. Don't bring Brody into the fun conversation I was shifting us into.

[A]

Okay, what if Anthropology.

[B]

No, no, not that. The. The. The. The. Listen, the.

[A]

Oh, Jason Bateman's here.

[B]

What is the podcast called?

[A]

Smartless.

[B]

Smartless. That wasn't good. I know. What was I gonna say? I had something good.

[A]

And it was.

[B]

I was gonna say, like, don't you know that that informs. Whenever I'm frustrated with Brody for gobbling on his nards while I'm trying to meditate or whatever. That. That is infused and charged by the fact that I know what you said is true.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And that I'm. I'm living in a pre Guilt state that I ever was frustrated with the dog.

[A]

Oh. Do you know that he'll one day be a little baby puppy angel and lbpa? Yeah. And we'll be sad when he's an lbpa.

[B]

I'm gonna. But I've already made. I've actually done a good Roman Roy amount of pre processing. You know, where I feel like I'm. I'm. I'm very. I don't want to talk about Brody.

[A]

Okay, here's what I want to talk is. Is Roman Roy good at pre processing?

[B]

No, it's a joke. Remember what his.

[A]

Like, I'm fine.

[B]

I've already processed. I've already processed.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

And he loses it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, for the. For the Three Succession fans. I'm just kidding.

[A]

Yeah. That show, Very unknown little show called Succession.

[B]

My friend Robin Tran made an interesting point recently where she was saying. She was like, it's, you know, it's sort of a. The hat of the week, I feel like, to be like, why are people complaining that you can't make offensive jokes? And she was saying, like, Succession was the most popular show and it was filled with incest, assault, like, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible joke. And I was like, yeah, that's fair.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

But, you know, show business is just like our own psyches. There's areas that we're green lighting and there's areas that we're repressing and it's. Or. Or policing or whatever you want to say, pruning, keeping an eye on. And there's seasons and there's ebbs and there's flows. This is how I feel this morning. I feel very groovy, very rock steady. And I'm like, yeah, no, it's going to. Everything is going to be inconsistent because everything is just sort of this projection of how we are, and we're inconsistent, constantly in flux. And there are times when we're like, totally, like. I think I've said a million times. It's so weird that we're so okay with horror as a culture that someone can be, like, eating a clown, can eat children with fangs. And we're like, this is okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. But. But I'm not saying words don't need to be considered and, you know, pruned and challenged and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Evolve.

[A]

I. I wonder if that's because, like, we all can be murdered. Like, like, across the board, it's equal. That's the one thing that we share.

[B]

You are so smart. I don't like a scary story about a werewolf killing people. There's a very, like, it's an even playing field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The werewolf doesn't. And, you know. And you wouldn't even like it if it was a targeted werewolf. If a werewolf was only eating Asian people. Asian people. Yeah, I know.

[A]

Yes. No, I'm.

[B]

No, I'm just kidding.

[A]

We're saying we wouldn't be okay with it.

[B]

We wouldn't be okay. That. That can't be wrong. We're saying it's wrong. I feel like Tim Dillon. That can't be. Not. Okay. Listen, what I. Oh, I had a couple things I wanted to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't remember any of them, but I'm so happy to be with you.

[A]

I'm happy to be with you too? There was something about the tribal something.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no. That point was one time I was on a psychedelic, and I started doing tai chi. And did I mention that already?

[A]

No.

[B]

And what I mean by tai chi, I meant I started sort of spontaneously. And by the way, this is not that supernatural or strange. I just felt very embodied and pleasant and connected and all of those good things. And as such, I started moving in an impromptu Tai chi. I can't call it Tai chi. It wasn't Tai chi, but it was Tai Chi ish.

[A]

Yes, Tai Tai.

[B]

Tai chi ish.

[A]

Tight, tight, tight. Cheese.

[B]

Can we do that?

[A]

I don't know. Wait, what were you doing? Were you doing Sanford and such?

[B]

Chichi. Chichiya.

[A]

I thought it was. They took from Sanford.

[B]

Sanford and Son. Not cool. And I'm pretty sure he's a lawyer. Sanford, so look out, Chia.

[A]

Also, this is just occurring to me. Do you think this is only interesting to us? And it's barely that. That Sanders and Sons, the local gelato place, is a. Is like referencing Sanford.

[B]

No, I'm pretty. My dad's oil company was called J.J. holmes & Sons.

[A]

Well, I know that the. And Sons. It's just that Sanders sounds so much like.

[B]

You know, I'm going to say. No, I. I'm going to say unconsciously, when they were choosing, do we call it Sanders gelato or Sanders and Sons or Sanders family gelato?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did it pushed the needle slightly.

[A]

I don't know why, but that just sounds right.

[B]

Okay. First toe row of the episode. He was talking about rapport and building rapport with people.

[A]

Tony Robbins, for those of you who are just joining us, if you haven't.

[B]

Been hooking your caboose up to my strong chuggin Tony Robbins mania, you've been missing out. Because, brother, I'm busting through walls like the Kool Aid Man. Which is where we're going. Yes, we're going to that. We have a good Kool Aid man and a nice relationship moment, and I love it, and I'm excited to share that. So that's a little tease of what's to be. Cheese.

[A]

Just. Just take a minute, buddy.

[B]

I'm pure white light. I'm pure white light.

[A]

Like. Like, if there was anyone who needed Tony Robbins less.

[B]

Less. Fewer.

[A]

Fewer.

[B]

No. Tony Robbins would meet me and go, like, maybe don't do my program. Does that sound familiar?

[A]

Maybe you do some, like, yin yoga.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my tai chi point. I. In that moment, I almost said, look, I'm doing tai chi, and no one ever Taught it to me. But then I realized, you know, the old ego's creeping in and that. That's sort of arrogant. So I didn't say that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's disrespectful. But in that state, I didn't consider all that. I was just like, maybe don't do that. But I was like, of course it would make sense that if I was in, like, a unified, beautiful place that I would stumble on. What I'm saying is someone made Tai chi up and that person was in that state.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was in, like, a clean, connected.

[A]

And our bodies are more similar than they are different. So they want to do the same kind of movements. That's why it feel. That's why that person was able to show somebody else. And they were like, this feels really good.

[B]

Exactly. So there's only like. I'm really kind of on this tip where there's only one happiness, there's only one sadness, there's only one anger. It's all just kind of the same chunk. And we take different pieces and we ascribe different reasons for having. But it's all the same. So when I'm doing that, I got a sense of like, oh, we're all tapping into the same creativity. And so to bring it back to my silly singing, which I really didn't mean to sound, like, appropriative.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I was like, of course, if I started, like, when Leela. You know, I don't even. Like the old Looney Tunes cartoons. You do the. The. The tapping your. The. The Native American stereotype sound.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she sometimes does that. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Has she ever seen it anywhere?

[B]

No, that's my point. That's exactly my point. And she doesn't know that. That's not cool. So we're not going to do that. But, like, of course she would stumble on it. It's really fun to blow out a sound and interrupt the. The sound of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, you know, we have you teach her about the culture and history and all the stuff and being sensitive. That comes. That comes.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Anyway.

[A]

I know. Yeah. That is. It is interesting when in that case, like, you are just sort of like, yeah, I don't know.

[B]

Oh, no, you don't scold or.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They didn't do anything wrong.

[A]

She doesn't know. It's not even like she, like, saw a Native American person and did it. You're just like.

[B]

She just thinks or saw it. More likely saw it in a cartoon and. And. And was like that. That's what I'm about. I want.

[A]

Honestly, that's why I haven't let her watch Peter Pan. And like, it's so hard because I really loved Peter Pan. It's not so hard. It's just interesting and complicated because I really loved Peter Pan growing up. But they straight up do that.

[B]

Oh, do they?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. I always think back, and I'm not excusing anything, that there was a time that some fat. Oh, I shouldn't have said fat. Some big old piece of shit. But I was just picturing like a stereotypical. He's got suspenders, he's got a stogie, he's a hard nosed animator. And he's like, it's good. It's, it's, it's honoring them. You know what I mean? They should be happy to be included. You know what I mean? Like, it was, that was. I'm not saying that was ever woke, but that was a guy like being misguided, you know.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was. Yeah. It's definitely just kind of pure ignorance.

[B]

I want to hear a super cut of liberals struggling to talk about anything.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, not the song that I sang. My friend Lawrence told me that at his child's school his son was told he couldn't. Who's white? Who couldn't wear a LeBron James jersey. Because that was appropriation. And I feel like that's interesting. Slippery and strange thing. Again. Welcome back to liberals trying to talk about something. I know, but they were. Because I was like, but he's a hero. Like, that's a celebration of LeBron James. And I like, I actually do. I say actually. Cause I'm 45. I'm about to be 45. So like, no one would be surprised if I was like, I'm having a hard time keeping up with this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do understand why when Blossom wore a dashiki, it was not cool.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I get that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once it's a person and we're celebrating the person and really I can very calmly and without inciting anybody, I think be like, well, what about Jordans? Everybody wears Jordans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they have a picture of Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan is black.

[A]

I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up. Or is already currently being questioned. Being questioned for appropriation. Because. Because like Js are, you know, like, like that. Am I allowed to say that?

[B]

Even J's? Yeah, baby. Babies versus Jays.

[A]

Yeah. Like that is such a thing for that culture. I mean, this is where I land always on appropriation.

[B]

I can't. I'm wearing J's right now, I can't.

[A]

Well, I mean, you could if you. If it came down to that. But, like.

[B]

You mean if that was, like, vote, like, decided.

[A]

Yeah, I guess.

[B]

But I. There is part of me that I'm like, so much of my life is. And so much of our lives is heroes and, like, trying to literally appropriate. So when you wear a Batman T shirt, you are trying to take on or appropriate those qualities. When you wear a T shirt that says the. Whatever, the Las Vegas Raiders, you're saying, I, too, have the qualities of this team. I am strong, I am confident, I'm fierce. I'm. I'm a winner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, everyone in Boston's wearing a Red Sox thing when they win the championship. You're saying, I am also. I am a champion. So so much of life is saying, the values of this thing are my values. It's like a human thing. And when it's Batman, nobody minds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but that is what you're doing. You're saying I'm like Batman.

[A]

That's true. But it's. I also can see that if you're looking at LeBron as just like, another hero, like Batman, then that makes sense. But I would imagine for people of color and for black people specifically, that is, like, you are a symbol of my culture, my background, my. Like, the oppression I've experienced, the obstacles I've overcome.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's a different story.

[B]

Yeah. A rich, more meaningful story.

[A]

Boy is wearing it, and it. It feels a little. I could see how that would feel a little like, you know, like, that just isn't.

[B]

You're so good at calmly and evenhandedly explaining these things. Because when. When I hear that, you know, obviously, I just want to be like, that's. I don't understand that. But, you know, you're good at looking at things. It's a very special kind of intelligence.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

I do feel like when it comes to. To appropriation, like, with what we wear and stuff, it's kind of like, all right, you guys, tell us what feels shitty to you, and we'll just not do it, because I can't know that the problem.

[B]

We're gonna move on from the subject because we're not gonna figure it out today, if that's okay. But the problem is, there isn't a United nations of black culture. There aren't elected officials that vote on these things.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And for as many people in la that might, you know, go conjecture, like, is, could this be a thing? Let's discuss it and really unpack it. There's always gonna be the same. Is true of any group.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Might make me more comfortable instead of trying to represent black people to say, like, Christians can't agree on any one thing. Republicans can't.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So it's tricky when you start allowing, you know, who we're really in this thing. Like, how do you work as a planet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is it just majority? Do you, like. When I say educated, I mean people who have studied this type of thing, the nuanced dynamics of racial history and appropriation and all of that stuff, do they get more votes than somebody that might, if you walked them through it, might agree. But at this day in this coffee shop, they're like, that's stupid. Like, does that vote count as much?

[A]

Yeah. It is the most complicated thing that is for sure. And it's incredibly nuanced. And you're right, because it is like, it's. The answer is both as far as, like, thinking of them as, like, a group that we're definitely not a part of, but then also remembering that they're individuals.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it is like LeBron is a symbol for this group of people, but the individuals of this group are going to feel differently about a white person wearing that.

[B]

You know, I went to school with a lot of Asian kids that were wearing Kobe jerseys and Jordan jerseys and all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. One of the things that I rail against is I'm like, identity is such a precious thing. And I know that when I found my thing, it wasn't sports, but I got so much value out of wearing a rancid T shirt or whatever it might have been. And that made me feel at home in the world. So I'm thinking of, like, the Beastie Boys, you know, coming into hip hop and, like, how easily we could have been like, well, that's not yours. And by the way, I'm here for that. We can talk about that. I'm not one of the things. Here's what I really want to say. I think when people go, that's fucking nuts. We've gone too far. Shut up. Right? Like, that sort of aggressive. This is too woke. It's ruining the world. I think what's underneath that is a sort of. I don't know if it's existential, but it sure is. Overall, encompassing dread of how sort of impossible it feels to manage. I'm having a hard time managing myself. And then the ambition to be like, we can do this. We can do this.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And then they get frustrated and then it comes out as anger or dismissal.

[A]

Right. But that's where white fragility really does come in. Because it's.

[B]

I'm not cold. Frigidity. I'm quite comfortable. I'm quite comfortable.

[A]

Fragility.

[B]

Oh, fragility.

[A]

But that's it where it's like the fear so desperately of being wrong that you're like, well, then just forget the whole thing. And it's like, no, you're just gonna be wrong a lot. We're just learning it. And it's in. There's. It's actually okay.

[B]

Well, yes.

[A]

It's not okay to not be okay to be like, okay with being wrong so much that you're not even trying or you're trying to make that bad or wrong or, you know, it's like, no, this is complicated. We're constantly living in the complication of it. We're all sort of like trying to figure this out. And there's gonna be moments where even in, in the thing that I said where I was like, let's just let them tell us what feels shitty about appropriation. That's not entirely correct either because, like, it shouldn't be their responsibility to educate people.

[B]

But then, like, unelected. By the way, this isn't shots fired. I'm just saying certain people, the more vocal, the more interested, the more. When I say leisured, I mean, they have time. So they become the unofficial represent representatives and unelected representatives. But here's. Let me say something positive because this sounds like I'm representing the. Like, it. Just throw it away. Just hit pause.

[A]

No, I know you're not.

[B]

And make America great again. You know, Make America great again really does seem like the appeal of a slogan like that is like, can we just stop? You know what I mean? Which we don't have to unpack that I. I already understand why that would be favorable to some and not to others.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. But what I'm wondering is, and I'm sure very intelligent, beautiful minded people could tell me what is the precedent for these types of changes? Because you and I live in a society where there was a time when black equality, to the extent that we have it, voting would take something very simple. Like that is literally happening. We are women are allowed to vote. We have that gay marriage. This happens. So it's very interesting to see, where am I in history? You know what I mean? Like, how will Leela see me? Like, what will exist in terms of rights and allowances and considerations that I'm just blind to. And it gets really hard when the neural. Literally, the neural group. The neural pathways in my brain are grooved to a certain way.

[A]

Well, that's why the, like, you know, bigoted, old.

[B]

Don't say fat.

[A]

No, don't make.

[B]

Don't. Don't make the same mistake I did.

[A]

That is why it's like, oh, my God. My grandparents say shit. That you're just like, oh, my God. Like, that's so racist or bigoted or homophobic or whatever. It's like, because this thing, this. We are becoming always more and more and more aware of this, and the less. It's sort of like, this is a white man's country and we're. The rest of us are just sort of living in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The more we are going to become aware and hear different voices and get different opinions and. And so I think the only thing to do is to always be making new grooves and to listen to your children. And when your children say, like, no. You know, I don't even know if this is a real one, but it's like, no, we don't say prostitute anymore. We say sex work.

[B]

That is a real one.

[A]

Yeah. And you're like, all right, noted. I'm going to keep trying to make that new.

[B]

And that's. That's very interesting. And one of the things that Richard Rohr says about why old, older people can be not fun to hang out with, because you realize the record has already been pressed and there's only so many tracks on it, and you can just put the needle in different places. And I certainly relate to that. And when he talks about contemplation, which isn't, as we all know on this podcast, isn't just thinking. It's not thinking about things. It's being naked and vulnerable to the moment and actually allowing the moment to change you. So being like. And I also just think about, like, literally what we can do for neuroplasticity. Growth, change, learning of any kind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we went roller skating this week, and I was proud to put on roller skates.

[A]

I was proud of you.

[B]

Preach.

[A]

It was very.

[B]

But I was. I was also grateful that you signed us up for that and took us and. And I got to see Leela doing it, and you were doing it, and you're so much better and so cool. But I also. As I was doing it, I was aware of where. And I do wish someone had had explained this to me when I was younger, that, like, learning anything new is just so good for your brain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I'm in a pretty interesting situation. I will argue that I am so tall that it is a much higher stakes game for me. I'm watching little pipsqueaks eat it. They're barely anything. I'm watching. You never fell, but, like, if you did, I mean, did the wind even touch you? I fall. I have, like, time to tell you I'm falling. I'm like, here to be on the ground soon. It just seems so high. And when I put on roller skates, I'm 11ft tall.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was like, I think Brody keeps farting. And I just want to acknowledge it that one of the frustrations, I think that's unconsciously or underneath all of these arguments is how difficult it is and how unfair it is that as we get older, it's just harder to change because we've stopped growing.

[A]

But that's. That's. I'm really interested in that. I can't talk.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I actually have to go because I. We. You know, they used to think, like in our. I think in our adult life even they went. Certainly in our lifetimes. They thought that the brain was only plastic at certain ages. Yeah. Until like 25.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now they're realizing that it's the same amount.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Has the same amount of plasticity, I'm pretty sure, the. Your whole life. So I actually think it's. It, like, it's like aging physically too. I took an aerial yoga class once from a 76 year old woman who was doing things on aerial silks that I never could do or. Well, I could, but, like, it felt impossible to me. She was so much stronger than me and she was like, aging is not as inevitable in that way as people think. She's like. It's just that the older people get, the less they move their bodies, and then it definitely will get you. So I think that's true about brain plasticity too. And. And we had our friend Reid made such a good point at Sunday dinner where he was like, you know, because Leela signed up for like taekwondo and we tried soccer and there's ballet and there's gymnastics, and there's like, I'm always signing her up for these after school activities where she's like, learning new skills and we just stop doing that as a. As adults. Because, like, I want after school activities. I'm like, yeah, we need that. And I think that's. That's the thing is the, the reason the grooves and the record are imprinted is because we've decided we're running over.

[B]

Them again and again.

[A]

Yeah. And we've decided these are our grooves. And like I'm done, I'm full. I've learned my thing, you know.

[B]

Well, toe row coming in hot. I have two toe rows. Let's see if I remember both of them. One is a study that they did with chimpanzees. And I don't approve of that type of research. But it's already, it already happened. What they did was they taped down three of the chimps fingers and so it just the pointer fingers sticking out and then they mechanically like moved the finger up and down. It wasn't painful or anything, they just started moving the hand, the finger up and down, up and down, up and down. I think they did it like 10,000 times. And then they unbandaged the hand. And then the monkeys of course went around just bending that finger because the groove. We're talking about neural pathways, we're talking about a pattern had been established in the brain. Just that simple. And that's not surprising. But what is surprising is then they did it again. But they stimulated the pleasure center of the chimp's brain. For every time they did it, they stimulated the pleasure center and then they were like, then they could get the same result, the same habitual activity by only doing it like a hundred times.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because every time they did it you got a thousand. So the implications for this, for like Internet porn are insane.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But this is one of the reasons why when I exercise now and I'm feeling really good afterwards, I have, I tell myself like, I try to like speak the connection and say this is working out, like when you're done. Not when I'm doing it. Because when I'm doing it I'm like, this is working out. I don't always love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But after, and you're done and you get all, you really are getting all those feel good. So your pleasure center is stimulated and you try and bend your own monkey finger and say this is working out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I do it with Leela too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When she reads me something, I go, that's school. That school. Like you feel proud right now. That school. That's why we go to school. I told, I think I already, maybe I already mentioned this, but you know, kids will say why do I have to go to school? And something that I'm proud of is that in my own life, with my Tony Robbins life planning is that I've been asking myself why do I do anything? And it's opening up my life in this Huge way. So now Leila's never said, why do I have to go to school? Sometimes she says, I don't want to go to school often. But I'll say to her, why do you go to school? Because I want her asking that and thinking about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, remember how you wrote Mama that letter and it said, dear D E R Mama.

[A]

It was the cutest thing, which was H A P E. Because she's sounding it out.

[B]

I'm freak. I can't handle this. But you go, that's why. So Tony Robbins would say, when you're in the state of the good feeling of writing the letter to Mama and you're watching her face light up, you try to make that monkey connection. And you go, this is. And I know I've mentioned this already, but like, I've been getting so much juice. Just I called Gary Gallman this week just to tell him how incredible I think he is. And you hang up and you're like, what was that, a triple espresso? Yeah, it's the same old thing that I'm going to keep saying on this podcast, but giving is receiving, and now I've become obsessed with that. Yeah, well, let's go to the mid rolls. But we didn't get to the Kool Aid man thing. And I think I'm always teasing. Teasing meaning previewing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The good conversation to come. But Val and I had a moment that's worth unpacking, a relationship moment, an rm. And I'm excited to talk about it because it really covers so much of this, you know, under discussed shame and pain and inner child. It's really interesting. So please join us in two minutes and if you like the show and want to support the show, maybe try one of these. This episode is brought to us by my new favorite clothing company, Roosevelts R S V L T S Rosevelts. It's an apparel brand that feels great, looks great, can is deeply, deeply fun. If you are looking for a gift for yourself or for a friend that loves pop culture, great clothes, or maybe even Americana, look no further than Roosevelt's. They combine high quality products with fun, bold designs. I wear them constantly. Red carpets, late night shows, date nights look great, but also just a little, little twist of fun for your friends out there that love shows like the Big Lebowski, the Office, Star Wars, Disney, Nickelodeon, classic movies like the Big Lebowski. I just said the Big Lebowski was a show. You knew I meant it was a movie. If you have somebody in your life that likes that sort of stuff or you want to just personally like me, go out to something wearing just a little bit of a conversation starter. Something that gets you in the mix. Something that lets people know what you're about and feels fantastic on your skin that is breathable. Light, soft, stretchy and fits so damn nice. I'm talking moisture wicking. I'm talking breathable. Extremely breathable. Made from signature Kunaflex four way stretch material. These shirts feel incredible. They don't wrinkle. I throw them in my bag, I take them out, I throw them on, I go on stage. They carry everything from Star wars and Jurassic park, the office and more. I just got a bunch of Batman stuff for obvious reasons. They also have hats, bomber jackets, performance hoodies and shorts. Everything they make is incredibly high quality. They won't blame you if you never want to take it off. Conversation starting shorts, even bringing the shyest person out of their shell. Based out of Hoboken, New Jersey. These guys are great. I'm so happy to be working with them. I started as a fan and now here they are sponsoring the show. So give them some love, give them some support. Support your style, support your life, support the show. Go to Roosevelts RSV LTS. Check them out RSVLTS.com or follow them on Instagram @rsvlts@roosevelts. They are the real deal. We're also brought to us this episode by my favorite CBD brand. You guys know this? Our friends at nextevo. Nextevo. What do people say about cbd? It's great, but I don't feel it or I don't know how to dial in the dose or it takes too long to kick in. I love cbd. I use it to relax, I use it to recover, I use it to deal with stress. I use it to help with my sleep. And Nextevo fixed all of those complaints. What's going on? Oil based CBD doesn't mix well with our water based bodies. Oil and water. So you absorb as low as 6% of the CBD on the label. 6%. But Nextevo Naturals, they're these little gummies. They taste fantastic and they developed a clinically tested water soluble form of CBD and their gummies and their capsules are proven to work faster and absorb four times better than oil based products. So you feel it, you can dial in the dose and it kicks in quickly. I was having a very stressful week this week. I popped in a few. I actually took 3 of their stress gummies and it melted my stress away. It keeps you in the world. We're not talking about an intoxicant. I'm talking about something that helps you manage and ease and interact with your life again comfortably. It is natural, it is wonderful. It is a game changing way to manage all of those things. I said stress, sleep, if you want to relax, if you're trying to recover. And now they have their strongest gummy ever, their new extra strength Daily Wellness CBD Gummy, which customers and I personally love or try their all time best seller. I said their stress gummies which is Ashwagandha which is an adaptogenic mixed with cbd. Absolute game changer. So leave oil behind and start the year with a more effective and fast acting CBD that you can feel and get just right for you. From Next Evo Naturals get 25 off any order or up to 60 off as a new subscriber by using code [e-mail] that's 25 off your order or up to 60 off a new subscription at any expense with promo code weird. All right, we're back. Can I say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If anyone's ever interested in doing a podcast and I always relive the moment when you told me that you listened to someone else that did a podcast and it was a couple or something and like it just wasn't sizzling. I'll never forget it. It's one, it's like a peak moment when you were like, you're doing something. Yeah, you're doing something.

[A]

Yeah, you're doing something.

[B]

I really appreciate it.

[A]

And even the times where I've tried, where I've had to be the engine for a podcast, I'm like, yeah, I can't. I can, but it's hard and it's not my comfort zone for sure.

[B]

And it is my comfort zone, which is, which is wonderful. It doesn't, it's not effort and I, Lord knows I interrupt you too much. But it's all in the name.

[A]

It's all in the gravy.

[B]

It's all in the gravy. Yeah, there's, you know, there's some weird stomach meat in there, but it's delicious giblet gravy.

[A]

My parent, my mom used to make it, or still does.

[B]

Sorry, not sorry. I'm just kidding. I am deeply sorry. My unrequested podcast tip is if you have something that you really want to talk about, meaning this story we're about to tell, we're doing an hour show. It's in 2 parts, 30 minutes. If you can keep the volleyball in the air. Not to. Not with bullshit, but with another interesting conversation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then you go into the second half knowing, okay, now we can do that, and then it'll be over. It's the only kind of planning that I do when I do this podcast. But I'm like, oh, I want to talk about that dust up at the dinner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, but if I do it now, I won't have anything to look forward to for the second half. There's my tip.

[A]

Wow. Tip over showing how the cheese is made. Is that the phrase?

[B]

Ooh, the cheese sausage. Anyway, I think this is interesting and I hope you enjoy. It's we to give a little back backstory is we've joked a lot on this podcast is that I'm learning how to be a friend and have friends that aren't comedians.

[A]

And you've made great strides.

[B]

Yeah. We. At your birthday drinks, one of our LA friends, you mentioned how communal our life is and how many friends and how much just socializing interaction there is. And this friend knows me quite well as well. And he was like, and how's Pete doing with that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were like, he's thriving. And I was like, wow.

[A]

Also, I.

[B]

It made me feel amazing. It was a way of measuring the progress.

[A]

Totally. And that happened again. And I didn't even tell you this yesterday when I had a therapy session, which is a part of the story that we're about to tell, she said, you know, I was saying, like, I love living here so much. I love that I literally cannot go out and run an errand. An errand without seeing somebody that I know. And that, like, we have, you know, we went to the park on Saturday or Sunday, and like, five of our closest friends, like, their whole families were already at the park there, you know, like, and we. None of us had planned it. We just all. You go. There's only, like, so many places you can take your kids.

[B]

STL. Baby, we don't live in St. Louis. Small town living.

[A]

Yeah. And like, I. It just really works for me. It's exactly what I need.

[B]

And it's exactly what I need.

[A]

Well. And my therapist was like, that seems like a lot of social interaction for Pete. Like, how does he do with that? And I was like, honestly, he also loves it and thrives. And you look forward to Sunday dinners even more than I do. And, you know, like, it's been a real shift. It's been a huge shift. I've really noticed it.

[B]

And it does go back to, like, Kind of a core negative belief. And my. As we all know, my core negative belief is I'm too much. If I let people in, they'll see how I'm just. I'm a spit valve on a trumpet, man. It's just too much, too wet, too loud. I don't really believe this. My. My healthy voice says, yeah, sometimes I say this at Sunday dinners. If I feel safe, I'll go. I'd be friends with me. And that. That is how I feel when I'm resourced and good. But it is funny how fragile that can be. So, anyway, we have Sunday dinners, and.

[A]

I want to say, before we get into the story, longtime listeners of this podcast will recognize this pattern. This is a pattern that we have. We've definitely talked about this at dinner parties. Happening. It's the same old thing. But it's just interesting to have more and more information with it. And I would like to say I do feel proud that this is happening less often.

[B]

Oh, my God. Now you are the champion of my life. And I know this story sort of ends. Probably one of the reasons I'm so excited to tell it is it ends favorably for me. And that's just grotesque honesty. But I also think there's. There's blind spots. Absolutely. For both of us. But that's not even the point of the story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the point of the story is the repair.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But what happened was we're all at dinner, and I uncovered a belief that I have very, very chiseled. It seems chiseled in granite, which is. If I'm trying to make people laugh, you should only help me. And if people don't. Yes. And me. Or if people don't understand my intent, it makes me feel very unsafe, and it makes me want to retreat. And that's where we get blinds drawn. You know, Undercover Cop Pete that just smokes cigarettes and watches a witness out the window. Like, I don't trust people because of stuff. Because potentially of stuff like this. So, like, is there anything worth mentioning? We're having this great dinner, and if any of our friends hear this. By the way, nobody is in the wrong here. This is a totally fine story. So please don't feel like we're calling anybody out. Yeah, but we were talking about the Olympics and how the Olympics. And I was saying I don't like the Olympics.

[A]

Yeah, you were on a nice tear about how dumb the Olympics were, and everybody was agreeing, and everyone was with.

[B]

Me, and it was fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. I was just saying. You were saying that like the reward isn't worth it. Like, you have to give 22 years of your life to absolute perfection. And I was mentioning the movie Foxcatcher, where a gold medal winning wrestler is kind of touring around junior highs and how unfair that is, to be honest. But it leans so heavily on its own meaning, like the Olympics. There was this cartoon of Alfred E. Newman in Mad magazine, and he's holding a tree branch. Like he has a cut tree branch and he's holding it, and on the tree branch, he's holding it over his head on the tree branch is a rope, and down. And then there's a tire swing. And he's in the tire swing, so he's floating. And I remember looking at that as a kid and I was like, wait, why wouldn't that work? You know what I mean? Like, it took me a minute to figure out the physics of it, Right? That, to me, is the Olympics. They're in a tire swing that only hangs from a stick that they're holding above their head, meaning their whole thing of, like, the torch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The medals.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The coming together. And I was, you know, getting some laughs, and it was good. And you were saying it's also not worth it, given all the effort. You. You should be set for life.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you win a gold medal and.

[A]

And you work harder than anyone and anyone. And then for what?

[B]

And if you had put in one ninth of the effort into, like, you know, day trading, you'd be a billionaire. But instead you're a gold medal guy.

[A]

Or even other sports.

[B]

Or other sports. Yeah. If you had put it into the NBA.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And isn't it funny? I don't have as much of a problem, quote unquote, with the, with the basketball guys, because I'm like, these guys are taking a break to play an awesome game with the best players in the NBA.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

And they're, like, making a living out of it and they're.

[B]

Oh, it's nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those guys are like. And you get this much money for the Olympics? They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, put it in the pile. But that, that's, that's all silly. I know there's more to life than money and. But I'm just saying, yes, it does bug me that you can become the best guy who skis down a mountain and shoots an arrow at a target. Be the best in the world. And after those months are over, who fucking cares? Who cares? And even the feeling of like, that's my gold medal. My whole life I've been Like, wow.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Like fireworks or a bad magic trick. I just don't know how to respond. It just doesn't do it to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We were on that, and then I said the Olympics. Do you. You can help me remember my wording, because I'm going to.

[A]

You're like. You can tell that the Olympics stink because they rely so heavily there. It's the only thing that relies so heavily on, like, it's gre.

[B]

It's. It's Greek history.

[A]

Yeah. You're like.

[B]

You can tell it's tied to ancient Greece.

[A]

They rely so heavily on its tie to ancient Greece. Like, well, the Greeks did it.

[B]

Right. And my point was, it was just kind of like another extension of this point. We're laughing and we're having fun. I'm like, it's the only thing where, you know it's stupid because they have to remind you every 10 minutes. Don't forget, this is all the way from ancient Greece. And it's like, who cares?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who cares? And then kind of, to my surprise, all the friends started being like, well, philosophy and aqueducts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I started trying to say, like, no, I'm not saying there aren't great things. Democracy.

[A]

Right. But that's really the turning point of, like, where our split in interpretation of what is going on happens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you. In. In my perspective, we are still all riffing on the same topic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Including you. Like, you've thrown out this thing. That's what I said. I was like, it's not. It's not. You. Like, Pete has this belief, and we're all, like, disproving him. It's like we are throwing in these things in this pot in the center. And you threw in, like, you know, Greek mythology now. Or Greek.

[B]

Yeah. Greek culture.

[A]

Culture.

[B]

Greek history.

[A]

Greek history. History. And. And so then now we're all just riffing and cooking on that. That's how I was.

[B]

I know. You thought I just threw a new topic in the walk and we're all gonna poke at it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm like. I mean, I can hear someone being like, oh, you want to be the center of attention? You want to be the funny one? Well, fuck, yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. I'm trying to get everybody laughing, and I'm making this work point, and I'm trying to build in real time, like a matchbook house that will support us.

[A]

And we also need to remember, understandably, your trauma is the I exist drama.

[B]

No, that. I really appreciate that because I'm going. I get such pleasure if I Say, you know, the Olympic stink. Because it's the only thing that constantly has to remind you, we're from ancient Greece. We're from ancient Greece.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if people don't understand that. I really replayed it in my mind. I'm like, what if it was Moshe and Neil Brennan and they started being like, well, philosophy. The Aqueducts. I would have screamed at them. Like, I would not have dropped it. I wouldn't have been like, oh, it's just a little roasting. I'd be like, that's not what I'm saying. Lots of great things came. Like, I like talking false. I would have been like, you will understand me. You can make fun of me, but not for a misinterpretation of what I was saying. This is so silly to get so worked up about this, but even in this moment. But I'm just like, yes, lots of great things come from. But philosophy has merits on its own. People love philosophy. Sam Harris, or whoever isn't going like. And don't forget, the roots of what I'm saying come from ancient Greece.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

But the Olympics does seem to be that way. It's like, we are upholding the torch of fucking Greece. And then when the Riff became Pete's.

[A]

Wrong, that's how you're interpreting it.

[B]

Well, that's gonna be reinforced by the next part of this scene. I start going, that's not what I'm saying. But really, the wind is kind of out of my sails. And now I'm, like, trying to shift.

[A]

Gears, and you're getting defensive.

[B]

Oh, I'm getting very defensive. Because again, I think it'll be funny if I defend myself. And it'll maybe not just funny, it'll feel good. I need to defend myself.

[A]

Yeah, you're feeling attacked and you're getting defensive, which is understandable. Anybody would get defensive if they feel attacked.

[B]

What was it? That was.

[A]

Then you said, all right, you guys stink.

[B]

You guys stink.

[A]

And then I think I.

[B]

If I'm my own therapist, I'd be like, good for you. Thanks. Good for saying how you're feeling. It's not the most evolved me, but I like that. I was like, just so you know, you're on my nerve. You guys stink.

[A]

Yeah, but. So at the point where.

[B]

But. But I think I said, you guys stink. When I said I'm. It wasn't this, but it was something like this. Maybe you'll remember. I go, no, I was trying to make you laugh, saying it relies on ancient Greece. And now I'm all, Now I'M all flustered. And then someone went. Because you were wrong.

[A]

No, this. No, you tell me. This is what happened.

[B]

Isn't it funny how badly I remember it? Because I'm in a fog.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, you're in a state. And so I think it's. It is important. What's happening is you have switched now to flight, to your protector, which is going to get aggressive. And I.

[B]

So aggressive.

[A]

And I know that. And we're. It's also significant that it was. You know, we had other friends at the table, but it was mostly me and my two other female friends. The. Like, other women in this room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so significant.

[B]

There was another guy.

[A]

No. But he wasn't involved in the talking about this. He was sitting and watching. It is significant for my side of things.

[B]

Okay. No, no. I. I just don't. It's just sensitive. I'm like, I'm not sexy. I'm not just, like, plowing. Oh, I'll plow over anybody.

[A]

I'm not accusing you of that. I'm saying it's a hundred percent. It. It becomes very relevant to you because if you are roasting our male friends, I care way less than if you're roasting our female friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the. And I uncovered this in therapy. This is my problem. This is not your problem, because this isn't you. But when I get dysregulated in moments where I see you turning aggressive, one of the stories is, if it's to my female friends, it's honestly, it's really ugly. Like, it's embarrassing to even share. I'll go. I'm not the type of woman that married a misogynist. Like, please don't think I'm the type of woman that married.

[B]

Like, I'm grateful for you to share this. And it is. It's vulnerable for me, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that. That's actually in the mix with me is I'm in these moments. I'm always like, no, I was trying to make fun of the Olympics. How did we get to a place. Tell. Tell them how we got to. Because you were wrong.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then the ego comes.

[A]

I was just saying. Yeah. So at this point, like, once. Once you're starting, your protector is coming out. My protector is also coming out. And our protectors have two different goals. Yours is to self preservation. Yeah. Self preservation at the cost of the group.

[B]

What a terrible leader.

[A]

No, but. But listen to mine. Mine is group preservation at the cost of the person that I love the most at that table.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's not good.

[B]

No, But. But I. Look, I'm not just saying this because we're recording this. This is very similar to the conversation we had privately.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I want you to know, know that I'm not crazy about how I behaved. In fact, to jump to the. The afterword of the story was I. I really. I brought it up with you the next day because I felt this, like, thing in the. In that Alan debut, Alan Day button, psychotherapy kind of way. I was like, no, we're. We. Let's talk about this now. And I didn't do a baby voice, and I didn't do a bit. For the most part, I just kind of said that. And we aired it out, and on the other end of it, I was like, I want so badly for everyone at that table to love not just me, but love coming to our house for dinner and be my friend. And I'm. I really feel like my neck is exposed. And I'm like, if we can't handle this, it will be confirming one of my least favorite unconscious, negative beliefs about myself. I'm too much. I'm not suitable for people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is funny that I called my special I'm not for everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's my biggest fear.

[A]

Right. That. That came up in my therapy, too, by the way.

[B]

Oh, she's a fan. No, she's a fan.

[A]

Yeah, very funny.

[B]

I. I was joking.

[A]

No, I know. No, no.

[B]

I'm just going to do the rest.

[A]

Of the podcast in the app Vision profile, so I'll. Well, I'll tell you that part later, but because we're getting. We're. We haven't even finished this. We haven't even said what happened. So what happened was you said, all right, you guys stink. And then our friend said is to me, like. But to you, like, isn't it funny how we stink when he's wrong?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, boy.

[A]

And then. Which is nmf.

[B]

Not my favorite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Challenging. And so then, because that person, as a friend, should be safe to say that. You know what I mean? Like, I want to be there for them in that way.

[A]

Right. But she was addressing, like, she was saying in like, a kind of challenging way, like, wow, he's totally turned on us. And it's not because of us. It's because of something he's feeling.

[B]

But, well.

[A]

Well, that's what she's saying.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's saying because he's wrong. And I actually take great pleasure in correcting a pattern that I never saw modeled for me of admitting when I'm Wrong. But in my tense, gurgling, angry stomach right now, I'm like, I wasn't wrong. I wasn't saying that the aqueduct. This is so silly. But guys, we have to talk this way because inside there are little children that. And I'm just giving it a voice. I wasn't saying that the aqueducts aren't Greek.

[A]

I hate that feeling. I know exactly what you mean. When you were like a T shirt.

[B]

That says, I wasn't saying the aqueducts weren't Greek.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If anyone comes to a show wearing a T shirt saying, I'm not saying the aqueducts weren't Greek, you get a full on 15. Let's be realistic. 15 minute meet and greet.

[A]

This is. Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm going to be tired after the show. But you're getting a hug.

[A]

Yes, that would be.

[B]

The hug is guaranteed.

[A]

I. I know. I think we all. Everybody listening knows this exact feeling. I've even had dreams where it's happening, where you say something. It sort of gets swept up in the group, this misunderstanding of what you've said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you are trying to defend yourself. And because you're being misunderstood, you're getting angrier and angrier and then you're feeling ridiculous. But you're just like, I can't be misunderstood here.

[B]

It's when I saw Night of the Living Dead as a child. I've said this a million on the pod, but it's almost over. The fear. The scary part wasn't the zombies. The scary part was the person that ran from the zombies and went in the house and told everyone there were zombies. No one believed them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's misunderstanding.

[B]

This is a horror movie. Like, remember the pregnancy scene in Mad Men where Betty Draper's being drugged up?

[A]

I don't really watch that episode, but yes.

[B]

Well, it's horrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like I'm being swept into an operating room and I'm being given drugs because they thought I said I had pancreatitis, when really I said, are there any pancakes among us?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And now I'm on a gurney. That's.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

By the way, I want to say.

[A]

Everybody can relate to that.

[B]

Feeling rational, removed from this situation. Pete can see this and go, like, nothing is happening. I said a thing. It was a little misunderstood, but also fair. And now we're just kind of teasing it in the spirit of what we're teasing the Olympics now. We're just kind of teasing it.

[A]

And really it just became a game of things we can think of that we got from the Greeks, totally. Like, that's what it.

[B]

What's weird, though. It doesn't matter. But. But some people were doing that in a way that I was okay with, by the way. This is just child Pete. Some of them, I was like, fine, fine, fine. I didn't like. When it goes, you're wrong.

[A]

Right, sure.

[B]

And by the way, that person. I love that person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Love that person. Great person.

[A]

So then my protector goes, oh, no. My worst nightmare is happening. The group is. Is falling into dissent, and it's because of this person who I'm seeing is an extension of me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And our friend who brought this. No, it's more like. And our friend who brought this up is misunderstanding Pete in a way that also makes me be. Feel misunderstood because it's like she's misunderstanding Pete potentially as being like, a mansplainer or something. And then that means she's misunderstanding me.

[B]

As someone who would. With a mansplainer.

[A]

Exactly. So then I get defensive. And the way that I get defensive, remember, is.

[B]

Is you're choosing the group over.

[A]

And I'm also like, pete's an extension of me, which is the. The beginning. Like, that's the flaw is. No, you're not. And I should not put my own social dysfunctions onto you to. Now you have to play this game that I shouldn't even be playing either.

[B]

It's funny to just see how fight flight I am, because I know that. And again, most rational, reasonable, removed from the situation. Pete can go, like, I know and identify immediately. And I'd like to be able to do that in real time. I'd like to defend my pride, but I know Valerie values the group dynamic and the cozy party so much. I'm gonna shut the fuck up. Like, I've replayed this moment in my head as a fantasy for pleasure to go. Imagine if I just was like, yeah, right, you're right. Yeah. Lots of things are great. And now we're laughing. And for some reason, yeah, it was like. It was the word wrong. But then it was also what you said afterwards.

[A]

Well, that. So that's the thing is I've replayed this moment where instead of doing what I'm about to say that I did, and now this will be shared. Like, this is where I get really ugly.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yes. Thank you for saying that. But. But I've replayed it where I do it.

[B]

Understandably reactive, I would say.

[A]

So I. I will say what I did, and then I'll say what I have replayed that I wish I did.

[B]

I also Love that we're both. I think it's powerful visualizing what I wished had happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And kind of, like I said, it's been a pleasant exercise. And I don't want to call it a goal, but I'm like, that's how I would like to be. And it's helpful to know how I would like to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the next party I can be like, don't forget. Let's. We're going to try that.

[A]

And I think the thing, the first thing that has to happen for both of us if we're gonna react in a different way is to like, pause and regulate ourselves and be like, wait, this is not a dangerous situation. How do I want to respond? Like trying to respond instead of react. Because this is how we are both are when we react. So she said, isn't it funny how we stink when we're wrong.

[B]

When you're wrong.

[A]

When. When you're wrong. When he's wrong. She said it to me.

[B]

I think she did say the third person, which made it worse.

[A]

Yes. Now she said it to me and.

[B]

I'm in junior high and two pretty girls are conspiring against. Sure, soft, red faced spit boy.

[A]

Of course it's. It's terrible.

[B]

It's not terrible. I'm just understanding why I had an overreaction. I was like, this is junior high.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then my protector goes, oh, and I love him, even though he's a bit much. He comes in with a flaming sword and goes, get on my steed. And I go, thank you.

[A]

Yes. And when I say it's terrible, I'm not saying. I don't think either of us are saying that what our friends said was terrible. We're really noticing how this dynamic just keeps occurring in different ways. So it was just a different vessel for that to have happened. But yes. And because she said it to me, then I go again, oh, no, she thinks that I married a misogynist or something. So then I.

[B]

And I see another dynamic. I know we're going to get to this comment where she goes, do you need help? And are you gonna, like, speak some truths that you're afraid to say to him, like, because he's clearly unsafe. Say it here. We have your back. That's interesting because I've told you many times I dated a woman where I would go to parties with her and I would use it as an opportunity to air my grievances. Like Festivus, I'd be like, well, we can't all smoke cigarettes at Disneyland. Like this lady Am I right?

[A]

You know, and.

[B]

And that was the only power that I had was in a group.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that fucking sucks. Now when I'm like, is Val doing this to me? And that was the first thing I said to you the next day was, is there like, not like this, but like, do you have a problem with me? Because I want you to tell me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And not feel like you need the support of a party.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because that is one of my biggest nightmares is that you can't just take. Come to me and of course you can, and say, hey, I've noticed this, this and this, and meet a calmly regulated resource. Be like, okay, yeah, it makes perfect.

[A]

Sense that you interpreted that that way. And that's not at all what was happening. What was happening is everything I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what I said finally, we'll get to it, was I said something like, like she said, isn't it funny how we stink when he's wrong? And I said, I was like, yeah, is, do we stink? Because we're not. And what's funny is I paused here and I went like, are you sure you want to say this? This is going to be a thing. And then I still did because I was still reactive, of course.

[B]

And we're all just like lab mice that have been given no dose or something at this point. We're completely out.

[A]

Yeah. So I said, yeah, that's true. So he said, do we sting because we're not coddling your ego.

[B]

Coddling your ego.

[A]

Yeah. Sorry.

[B]

No, we've already. We've already covered that. This has been. This has been smoothed over. But I think it's helpful to share the pod.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And for hopefully for people to hear that it can be non scary and helpful to talk about these things.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because the next day I had a choice. Do I ignore this sort of like, bubble between us? It wasn't hard. It was just like a little.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Why don't I. What. What it was, was I was like, why do I feel like I want to hug Valerie, but I don't know if she wants to hug me? That's what it is. No, it's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we talked. We had this conversation, basically.

[A]

Yeah. And. And I'm. Well, we won't. We don't have to get to what you said in return.

[B]

Oh, no, I want to. Of course.

[A]

I. I didn't. I.

[B]

And then I said, now I'm in full tilt.

[A]

Yeah, I'm.

[B]

And I'm honestly, I'm a little proud that this is me at full Tilt having, you know, been with a lot of people that their full tilt is, like, really nuts.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

My full tilt was. I liked you better before you healed. So you shot me a, you know, six. A six shooter. And I went back with my own, which we. Zooka. Because you've done this healing. It sucks, Val, but I was like, oh, now you're empowered and liberating, and you're gonna, like, stick it to me. Is this what's gonna. Am I your. Am I like, the. The giant in your life that you have to kill next?

[A]

Which is an interesting thing because that's like. And you. You know, we both really apologized. We were kind of saying to each other what each other's fears are. Like, we. We did throw darts, and they were personalized.

[B]

Yeah, they were. It's like heat seeking.

[A]

You. Yeah. Like, you're afraid that you're like, our dads. All dads, it seems, where it's like. Like, everybody has to, like, coddle the baby dad, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I have a very real fear that you will feel that way. That, like, if I am in my full power and my bigness, then that will be just too different from the person that you fell in love with, and that will be. And. And by the way, when I've talked.

[B]

About that in therapy, significantly, you just said.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you in your full power will be unacceptable to me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I just went ahead and said, that's what's happening.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But. But what I was responding to was something that wasn't real. It was a responsive program from a misunderstood situation, but very, very rare. I'm feeling vulnerable that I shared the bad thing. I said. It seems worse, to be honest, that I'm like, you're doing this healing, and it's making you into this person who's, like, attacking me is. Is kind of the gentler way to say it, but I didn't say that. I said it in a very mean way.

[A]

Well, I. I understood in that moment, too, that, like, just, like, how I was talk. It was like I was talking to the thing that was possessing you, and I could feel you, and I was.

[B]

Talking to the thing that was possessing.

[A]

Yeah. So I knew we weren't really saying it to each other.

[B]

That's worth the. The whole episode's weight in gold.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like I. You were talking to my misfire like a. Like a downed power line.

[A]

It's.

[B]

But like, you know, when you're like, you can't take that back. You said. We said some Things you can't take back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, who was saying it and to who?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes it is, oh, an overreaction. Talking to an overreaction.

[A]

Totally. And by the way, when we. We've talked about that in therapy too, and she's like, I think you can just assume it's a given that that will be a little bit, like, of a challenging thing to navigate in your relationship. That, like, as you step more and more into your full power, it will take a big adjustment in your whole relationship's dynamic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like. And that was really comforting because you're like, right, it's not like this bad, scary thing. It's just. It will. It's a growing pain as you grow. Yeah, it's a growing pain. Exactly.

[B]

And by the way, again, another reason why I think this conversation is important is one of the reasons why people don't, in your case, heal a trauma or start a process of healing a trauma, stepping into their full power. Maybe it's just going to therapy. Maybe it's just, look, you know, going in the cave, you're afraid to go, turning the lights on, inviting others in, whatever it might be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think one of the reasons we don't do that. And by the way, that could also mean, like, getting an incredible shape or pursuing a career that you want to is. Is the people around you, unconsciously or not, are afraid of losing you, and you're afraid of losing them if you do this, this and this. Yeah, I've had that feeling.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

I'm like, don't. Don't get too shiny. You'll be alone.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Who the fuck can hang out? Like, think about, I'm taking Michael Jordan as I don't know anything about him, but when you're the fucking best, who can you be friends with? And then. And I actually heard Torow talking about that people, not Michael Jordan, but people that become so successful that they're walled off. And now everybody they know just wants something from them and they have no actual relationship, so they're unfulfilled.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Success without fulfillment is failure.

[A]

Yeah, but I think that is a different. That's like. That's not necessarily healthy success. It's not totally unhealthy success. Like the Michael Jordan example. Like, I think that's very different than. I think as you get healthier emotionally, the people who are. Maybe you have an unhealthy relationship with will fall away. People who are also growing.

[B]

And that's another big toe road thing. He's like, make sure. You're with people that are supporting your highest self.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

You know, I've done that many times where I'm like, I don't. I like this person, but I think they're gonna, you know, not slow me down. That's the wrong phrasing. But it's like they're gonna. They're gonna hate that I'm meditating.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or whatever the example might be.

[A]

Right. Yeah. So the next day, you brought it up, and we talked about it very much like this, but it was a little bit fewer bits. Fewer bits. And I wasn't. I didn't yet fully take on my part in it first. It was sort of like, you know, honestly, I do get afraid that there's going to be this dynamic of, like, everybody here exists to make you feel safe, just because that's the dynamic that.

[B]

King baby. You're worried that I'm becoming a king baby, by the way. Similar dynamic with me growing up. It's like, coddle, coddle, coddle. You're the big cheese. You're the big cheese.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we've talked about this before. You're making the most money, so you get to do whatever you want. So you're. You're. That's why we say king. You have the. The income, so you get to be whatever. It's like the. The giblet gravy. It's like, yeah, there's giblets in there, but that's what keeps the lights on. So no one gets to question me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's very. So I. I'm with you.

[A]

And you really proved that that's. That's not who you are. Truly. Because in that moment, you really received that feedback so beautifully, and you weren't.

[B]

What moment? When we talked about it the next day.

[A]

Yes. And. And what I'm saying is the king babies that we knew you couldn't say that to them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That was not going to be heard.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That challenges their king baby, you know, fantasy. And so it's not received. So I'm just saying I'm complimenting you that you really proved that that's not who you are. Because I really. You received that. And you were like, right, okay. And then I had therapy, and I joked to you afterwards. I was like, jennifer is on your side. But really, she did what such a good therapist, what a good therapist would do, where she was like, I totally understand why you reacted the way you did, and I totally understand why Pete reacted the way he did. And it really just comes down to this. What is more important, your loyalty to your friends in that moment or your loyalty to your husband, the one that you. You chose?

[B]

You think this would be a flood of good feelings for me? I. I'm. I'm trying to hold the tension. I appreciate that she added clarity to where I was coming from. That I'm not just being a monster.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That I'm actually.

[A]

I knew that, but.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I know. I know you knew. But I don't think it's a win or a lose situation.

[A]

No.

[B]

The way the story was standing before your therapist chimed in was. I was just like, okay, I need to work on this. And we came up with the Kool Aid Man. I'm the Kool Aid Man. I'm busting down walls, but then also, like the Kool Aid man, to quote the Dane Cook bit, one of my favorite bits of. Of all time. I'm also very top heavy, and you can topple me very easily. So I'm like the Kool Aid man in two ways.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You will go down. You're a very top heavy. That's the Dan. It's a great bit. Go listen to it. But. So I didn't. I don't think her understanding of my really kind of precious softness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was like. And then I won. It's not the marriage. Ref.

[A]

No, I didn't.

[B]

You're not Tom. Papa. Okay.

[A]

I. I didn't receive it that way. I thought everything we had said in. In our first conversation, which was more.

[B]

Was more about me geared towards the side checking myself as usual after I've wrecked myself.

[A]

I do think that was correct. It just was half of the story. And that's what's so beautiful about this dynamic in this story and us sharing it, is that there isn't a right or wrong. Like, we both threw darts and we both.

[B]

I hate that I threw a dart at you.

[A]

We both. I hate that I threw a dart at you.

[B]

What's your fantasy, by the way? Finish your.

[A]

We both. We both so. And we both were. We were just. Our pain bodies were activated and they were lashing out at each other. And so. And now we both know, and we have learned this before, but that this is. This is something to look out for. And when we start to feel activated, to kind of calm ourselves and then respond in the ways that we want to. And my new response. And this was the. The idea my therapist gave me is. She was like, he. He is looking. He's feeling betrayed by his friends, and then he looks to you. This is the part that broke my heart. Like, he looks to you, you're his partner, and you're like, I'm with them. Yeah. And like, that's such a betrayal. I think that's what I said when I came down from therapy is I was like, I'm sorry I betrayed you.

[B]

That's very sweet.

[A]

But. But so my new goal, and we might. We're not going to get it perfect every time, but is to, like, go, wait a minute. This is not a death situation. It's okay for there to be conflict in friend groups. It's not my responsibility to glue the group back together. And. And to say. She was saying, maybe you can use the Kool Aid man as, like, even something we can say to each other. Like, oh, yeah, the Kool Aid Man's here so we can acknowledge it. And then my fantasy is to be like. To like, touch your knee and be like, I love you. I'm here. It's okay. Like, so that you know I'm on your side.

[B]

Well, it is a little bit like the Hulk and Scarlett Johansson in the. In my. And that can go for both of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Meaning we're going into our protector mode and sometimes we just have to slow down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. That's really this whole story to me is it would just be wonderful to work on that muscle of just slowing down in the moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just going like, I don't have to win or lose this right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was helpful to me to uncover this kind of absurd belief that I have, which is. And it comes from 20 years of standup. If I'm making a joke. Shut up. That's the belief. Meaning, like, if I'm trying to delight everybody. And there are other things going on there too, that you could say or trying to win or trying to be the funny guy. You know, you could personalize that to me and make it not that virtuous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if I'm on a bit, help me make the bit. It's like when Leela makes a poop joke and we don't correct her. I just say, leela, be funnier than poop. You know, like, I'm just trying to do something. But it's more vulnerable than that. It's like. And it really is a friend lesson. It's like, can I be vulnerable enough to this moment to forego my plan of sticking this hilarious feeling, that earth shattering lean on their Greek history too much? That's how you know it's lame. And honestly, take a little bit from you, because when I Was growing up one of our neighbors. My best friend's dad was this, like, you know, he's a bit of a blowhard, and he would take over rooms, and he made people feel uncomfortable. And he made it uncomfortable in. In the 80s, was making uncomfortable jokes. And. And I just was like, I don't want to be like. Like that guy, and I don't want to be that way that I've seen other people be. And it. And the real takeaway was you were like, this is friendship. I talked to Sam about it this morning in the fight in the 5:30 club.

[A]

You're so cute.

[B]

We're getting up early, and we're cold plunging. And Sam and I were talking about just how risky it is for me to even hang out with him, how this is this new thing. Like, what if I say a dumb thing? And then I'm like, I love Sunday dinner. And then when people leave, sometimes I'm like, was that okay?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he goes, that's what it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you've been saying that to me a million times. I'm not saying now that a man said it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I'm just saying, like, another person said that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But here I am, almost 45, going like, oh, that vulnerability and that risk of relationship is relationship.

[A]

And that's where you get all the reward. When people keep showing up to Sunday dinner. And that doesn't. It's not a given that everybody will. You know, some people might be like, okay, this isn't for me. And, like, that's where I have to do my work of being okay with that. But then the people who do show up after they've seen all this. Yeah. Like, I had the moment where the lasagna I was making at the same Sunday dinner was taking forever. And everybody was, like, standing in the kitchen waiting for this. And they were all hungry. And they started to mention how hungry they were and how late it was getting. And I said, like, okay, this is only my nightmare. Is that, like. And. And then everybody was like, nobody's blaming you. And I just, like, had this codependent flare up where I went. It's not even that I think, you know, like, you're mad at me. It's that I can't bear that you're uncomfortable in my house. And then our friend Jen, who's very sweet, was like, can we all just give Val a group hug? Like, that's incredibly vulnerable. I'm clearly activated in my most dysfunctional way. And people are like, yes, let's just surround you and It. And you'll. We're. We see your vulnerability, and we're gonna hug you, and it was beautiful.

[B]

Okay. Those two moments, let's get them. Let's mash them together. Instead of saying, all right, you guys stink. I could have said, this is my worst nightmare.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel misunderstood. I was just trying to make you laugh, and I feel like everyone's turning on me.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

With that group. Oh, no issue.

[A]

No issue. You would have gotten a group hug.

[B]

Yeah, but. But you know what? Did I. Why I didn't feel. That's. The note for me is like, what do you mean, you guys stink? I wish I could have just been even more vulnerable, because, believe it or not, I thought saying you guys stink would help you guys say, oh, we didn't. My fantasy is like, oh, sorry. I get what you mean.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're always. Yeah, I get it. I'm just saying they're other. And I'd be like, I know. All I want is. I get what you mean. I don't want to necessarily be correct because the aqueducts do have to keep telling you they're Greek. That's a good. That's a good example. I just want someone to say, like, we know what you meant.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

That's my worst nightmare.

[A]

And that's my.

[B]

Your codependence and my type of codependence of like, please tell me I'm.

[A]

See me. I exist.

[B]

See me. I exist.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that is codependence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Meaning as soon as you don't see me, I don't exist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I'd rather take a cheap shot at my favorite person in the world. At least. So then I can be like, well, at least no one misunderstood me about the Olympics in Greece. And, like, wow, what a tricky thing it is to be.

[A]

But this is. You are learning to be a friend and to let people in. Your protector is also learning. And it's like Brody barking. You're like, nobody's at the door, buddy. Thank you for trying to protect me.

[B]

Which is, again, why I think he bugs me so much, because he's being so reactive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm so afraid that I'm just.

[A]

Reactive and I have to do the same thing with my protector. Being like, you are not responsible for this group all believing the same thing at every moment and being 100% happy with not only you, but now your husband.

[B]

You know what's funny? I'm realizing this is so helpful. Being understood is more important even than the joke landing. I'll give you an example. I was making fun of. Not even making fun of, but I was just saying Kool Aid man style to our friend Ben and his wife. I was like, you know what's funny is I don't even really think of you guys as a couple. It's because I often see one of them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That. That's kind of how they are in the world. And I rarely see them together. That's not even really true. But my dumb brain goes two individuals. And for some reason, I share this. It's kind of a. It's one of those ones that, as I'm saying it, I'm like, I could have kept that to myself because. And then I was very clear to be like, I'm not saying you're not affectionate. I'm not saying you don't co parent. There's nothing here except that my brain is. Is dumb.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, let's laugh at my dumb brain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like saying, like, remember when I asked what the baby's name was?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Five weeks in, I'm like, I don't mind being roasted. And to that point, Ben was like, well, we don't have a podcast. You know, like, he started kind of leaning into me that I don't have a podcast where I talk about my vasectomy with my wife every week. And I'm there because you heard me. I'm telling you I'm stupid. You understood. And now you're rightfully saying, like, not all of us have, like, turned our relationship into an aspect of our job. I'm there for it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

As long as you understood me. Which is why, to a certain extent, as far as it goes, when certainly Anthony Jessen, like, but if any of the Roasty guys roast me, I actually like it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because it makes you seem. They go like, oh, Peter, you find a way to work Jesus into this. Yes. Yes, I am.

[A]

But if they were roasting you, like, this guy's such a atheist or whatever you would feel.

[B]

Which, by the way, when my manager, who I love very dearly, mentioned in an interview with the Boston Globe that I was an atheist, I. That did bug me, because I was like, I can't not be known.

[A]

Yeah. Apparently, yes. I will not not be known.

[B]

I will not, not be known. I will not not be known.

[A]

Well, I just want to say, for the record, because I do. We do have to end. I. I love. You're a Kool Aid man. I really do. And that's.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And. And that's. I, you know, it's funny is I said this. I was feeling this way, and then I. I remembered saying this last week, where whenever you have a moment where you're in that state socially, I'm. I hate it in those. In those moments. And then the second I'm regulated, I'm like, but that's the thing I love. Like, it's so endearing to me, you handing me the picture that you made me of. Of collateral.

[B]

Yeah. While you were in distress.

[A]

When I thought of that later, I was like, yep, that's a hundred percent who I want to be with. I think it's so endearing. So it's about my dysregulation. It's not about who you are. And my. I told my therapist that I was like, this is why I fell in love with Pete, because you are. You are big. You bust in. You're larger than life. You have the. I remember being so attracted the first time I saw. Really how you have the capacity to sort of set the tone in a room. Remember, that was like, one of the first compliments I gave you was you went into some meeting and I was like, you went into their office and you set the tone of what was. It's so attractive to me. And I love. I like, I really find it so endearing. These little social peccadillos. Yeah. Like, whoopsie daisies. I think it's so adorable. So she said. And she said, this is like a thing in psychology. As we say with, like, couple psychology, often the thing that first drew you to that person is the thing that will drive you crazy later. And it's just remembering that that's what drew you to that person. It's very endearing. So I just want to say that for the record, I. I am literally attracted to.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

The wild card element of this guy.

[B]

Honestly, that I know we're ending, but that's my own relationship with myself. I was telling Sam this morning, and I was like, I called my book Comedy Sex God. Like, what? That's so loud. Shouldn't I have called it, like, Recovering Christian or something? Like something a little bit more of what it is. Something a little bit more like, hello, I'm a book about recovering from fundamentalism.

[A]

That's not funny.

[B]

And I go, comedy Sex God. And I'm like, I have to make peace and remember that's what I love about myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a real. So you're not alone here, sister. Welcome. Welcome to the party. So glad to have you on the team. I was flying solo for 33 years.

[A]

I'm really glad to be on the team.

[B]

I'm so glad you're on the team. And I love you so much.

[A]

I love you so much. All right, you guys. Very, very. You go.

[B]

I could have gone so much longer.

[A]

I really saw that you had a nice ver verbarado going. Virdo. All right, well, I know we will be doing this, so you also go ahead and keep it crispy.

[B]

Wonderful.