We Made It Weird #181

Summary

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You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #181
Date: June 21, 2024
Hosts: Pete Holmes & Valerie (Val) Chaney Holmes

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Episode Overview

This episode of "We Made It Weird" stays true to the podcast's ethos: exploring the secret weirdness inside everyone, with candid and often hilarious conversations between Pete Holmes and his wife and co-host, Val. Brimming with vulnerable self-exploration, playful sexual talk, trauma healing, and spiritual insights, this episode covers a lot of ground—from regional accents and British porn terminology to deep insights into trauma therapy and self-perception.

The mood oscillates between lighthearted riffs and profound conversations on healing childhood trauma, spirituality, and self-acceptance, underpinned by real moments of intimacy between the hosts. If you've never listened to Pete and Val, this is a quintessential "We Made It Weird" experience: vulnerable, digressive, hilarious, and occasionally raw.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Accents, Regional Identity, and Hidden Weirdness

(07:01–11:16)

• The conversation opens with Pete and Val joking about boring fish and fake podcast ideas, quickly spinning into a playful exchange about regional accents.
  • Boston accents: Pete claims he does Boston "with the most confidence" but admits he never had a real accent himself despite being from near Boston.

    "I think I do Boston with the most confidence. But I—confidence, Peter! A director has to have confidence." — Pete (07:47)

• Val compares the South and Boston in terms of accent retention and identity, finding it curious that some people, including friends like Jamie Lee, don't have regional accents at all.

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2. Secret Behaviors, "Naughty" Rituals, and Sexual Taboo

(11:16–15:41)

• Pete discusses the phenomenon of people in "value-laden" places enjoying taboo media, notably porn and Howard Stern, while maintaining a conservative image.
• Val shares her "secret weirdness": using an audio erotica app (Quinn) to stay awake on long drives.
  • This sparks a candid discussion on masturbation and porn, with both hosts reflecting on shifting preferences, shame, and the difference between visual and audio eroticism.
  • On Quinn app’s appeal:

    “It is a person and they’re, like, speaking... but they’re good at it. It’s not just. How do you know it’s not real? …Because you never hear the other person. You are the other person, that’s what’s great about it.” – Val (14:04)

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3. Cultural Attitudes & The British Kink

(23:00–31:10)

• Val prefers British-accented audio erotica, leading to a riff on the repressed kinkiness of British culture.
• Pete jokes about British porn terminology and why British "down blouse" porn is weirdly appealing to him ("blood peoples").
• They reflect on how early experiences or accidental arousal can shape sexuality (e.g., Val’s curiosity about her kindergarten teacher’s blouse).
• Pete mentions an old show idea ("Perv") about a religious guy with odd turn-ons, suggesting kink often arises from repression.

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4. Trauma, Therapy, and the Protector Self

(41:28–75:41)

• The conversation takes a dramatic turn as Pete candidly shares his recent, intensive trauma therapy:
  • He distinguishes his old “strategizing and coping” therapy from current work—actually feeling deep, buried emotions.
  • Describes increased “ups and downs,” heightened mood swings, and "trauma responses" that become disruptive in daily life.

    “I’ve been really up and down, and that’s very normal for me. I’m a mood swingy motherfucker. But what’s happened, it’s been heightened. … Now, that, brother, you got yourself a soup.” — Pete (42:49)

  • Val acts as a supportive guide, explaining trauma fragmentation and validating Pete's journey.
• They discuss Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy and the “protector” part of the psyche—the voice that resists doing the work for fear it will “destroy” you.

  “That protector was correct in saying this will destroy you because you are a child who was not resourced and not in a safe environment. Thank you, Protector. … I’ve built an incredibly beautiful life where I have teachers and friends and people who know and love the real me.” — Val, speaking as an IFS therapist (75:49)

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5. Spirituality, A Course in Miracles, and Perception

(47:46–56:06)

• Pete reads from A Course in Miracles, focusing on the section about perception and reality:
  • “Perception is a choice and not a fact. … If you feel the love of God within you, you will look out on a world of mercy and of love.” – (50:37)
• He explains how trauma work affects his spiritual sense of the world, and how positive perception can radically shift internal experience.

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6. Cognitive Fusion: Not Mistaking Thoughts for Experience

(88:00–91:49)

• Pete reads from John Astin’s This Extraordinary Moment on “cognitive fusion”:
  • Warns against thinking our concepts are the same as reality:
  • “The notion that my ideas about him accurately represent the entirety of Dave is tantamount to taking a thimble full of water and imagining I’ve somehow captured the whole of the sea.” — John Astin, read by Pete (88:49)
• Suggests healing is about broadening awareness beyond tunnel vision in distress.

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7. Wild Geese – Closing with Compassion

(94:27–96:26)

• Val reads “Wild Geese” by Mary Oliver, a poem about self-acceptance and belonging in the family of things.

  “You do not have to be good. … You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.” — Mary Oliver, read by Val (94:36)

• They reflect on the comfort of seeing yourself as part of a wild, imperfect world—“divinity itself" as Pete puts it.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|---------|-----------------| | 07:47 | Pete | “I think I do Boston with the most confidence. But I—confidence, Peter! A director has to have confidence.” | 14:04 | Val | “It is a person and they’re, like, speaking... but they’re good at it. It’s not just. How do you know it’s not real?...You are the other person, that’s what's great about it.” | 16:08 | Pete | "For all the headlines of men being visual, I actually think what's going on is men are more disembodied... So it’s not really visual stimuli. It’s an ignorance of the other stimuli." | 23:53 | Pete | "They grow them like you in Wales. I don't know what's going on. I think most women in Wales look like you." | 42:49 | Pete | "I’ve been really up and down, and that’s very normal for me... Now, that, brother, you got yourself a soup." | 50:37 | Pete (reading Course in Miracles) | "If you feel the love of God within you, you will look out on a world of mercy and of love." | 75:54 | Pete | "You're marching to defund me. ...I'm not bringing politics into this. I'm just saying, I keep you safe and you're... really, really. All right, let's see what comes through the door." | 88:49 | Pete (quoting John Astin) | "The notion that my ideas about him accurately represent the entirety of Dave is tantamount to taking a thimble full of water and imagining I’ve somehow captured the whole of the sea." | 94:36 | Val (reading Mary Oliver) | "You do not have to be good. … You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Accents & Regional Identity: 07:01 – 11:16
• Secret Sexuality & Audio Erotica: 11:16 – 16:43
• British Kink & Early Sexual Awareness: 23:00 – 31:10
• Trauma & Protector Self: 41:28 – 75:41
• Spiritual Perception: 47:46 – 56:06
• IFS and Healing/Protector: 67:08 – 77:45
• Cognitive Fusion & Direct Experience: 88:00 – 91:49
• Poetry as Spiritual Comfort: 94:27 – 96:26

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Tone & Style

The tone is casual, raw, and deeply honest, with signature Pete-and-Val goofiness giving way to profound self-disclosure. Both hosts oscillate seamlessly from riffing on sexual taboos and cultural quirks to wrestling gently and bravely with their emotional histories and vulnerabilities.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode exemplifies what long-time listeners love: laughter, deep dives, and the unscripted messiness of being human. Pete and Val’s willingness to get real — whether about British porn, inner protectors, or crying in therapy — provides comfort, comic relief, and even practical insight into healing and self-acceptance. It’s the “spicy podcast” at its finest.

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Closing Words:
"You do not have to be good. ...You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."
— Mary Oliver, as read by Val (94:36)

Pete: "Go ahead and keep it crispy." (96:36)

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Transcript

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

You made it weird. Oh, yeah. You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos?

[A]

What's happening?

[B]

Holy moly.

[A]

Guacamole.

[B]

Guacamole. We got a good one today.

[A]

I think this is one of our best.

[B]

I agree. If this is the truest to form as far as the.

[A]

Like, I love doing this with you because you. I feel the same way about the Wednesday episodes. Like, if we get there, we know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes you get 70% of the way there and you're happy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you get a hundred, you're just like, oh, man. There's no fake in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's unbelievable. I'm so glad everybody's here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This for if. If. If this is your first Friday episode. This is the bonus. We made it weird. Val and I catch up. And this is just a classic. I'm so glad. I'm so glad we got it. Not much to promote up top. We just added Madison, Wisconsin to PeteHomes.com Coming back to Madison. I hope you can come.

[B]

Madison.

[A]

Me, too. And we got Texas and Pittsburgh. And there's something else.

[B]

Detroit.

[A]

I don't know. No, I was gonna say it doesn't matter. It does matter.

[B]

It does matter.

[A]

It's Houston, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh and Milwaukee and then Largo. Go to largo-la.com if you're going to be in the LA area. The Largo shows are the highlight of my month, and we're doing them every three weeks now, so sometimes twice a month. July 17th, August 16th, and September 5th and 26th. Come to those always amazing guests and always, always, always so fun. Largo-la.com for those and PeteHomes.com for the tour dates. Means a lot when weirdos come out. All right, Katie. Ro. We don't do ads for things we don't actually love. I should say in that, in that mindset, if you like the show, try one of the sponsors. It's the best and only real direct way to support the show other than listening. So if you want to give us a little thank you, try a sponsor. Don't. Don't send us cash. Send these guys cash. Get a product. Helps us out. All right, Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. Recently, my entire family was sick except for me. And I don't think that's in small part due to the fact that I am the only one that takes armor. Armor Colostrum. You guys know I am all about ways to strengthen My immunity. I'm all about gut health. I love endurance and metabolism and fitness and hair and skin. What product could I be talking about that addresses all of these for real? For real. You know, I only do spots for things I actually use and actually love. And as soon as I started using Armor Colostrum I noticed a huge, huge, huge difference. It's in my immunity, in my health and my wellness, in my recovery, in my hair and my skin and in just general overall wellness. What is Colostrum? It is the first nutrition nutrition we receive in life and contains all the essential nutrients our bodies need to thrive. I'm talking about reactivating hair growth and glowing skin by reducing inflammation. Talking about igniting your metabolism and fortifying gut health so you feel less bloated. That's the biggest one to be honest, that I noticed immediately. Feeling lighter, feeling smaller in the belly because there's just less going on in there because you're balanced while replenishing your microbiome, stabilizing blood sugar and accelerating fat burning. That's huge. As well as fueling fitness performance and recovery. Armor Colostrum is a proprietary concentrated bovine colostrum that harnesses over 400 living bioactive nutrients that rebuild the barriers of your body and fuel cellular health for a host of research backed health benefits. It's wholly natural, sustainable and was developed with the highest integrity grass fed in the United States of America. And they guarantee the highest potency and bioavailability of any Colostrum on the market. For results you can actually see and feel. I like getting the powder. They also make these packets that are incredibly convenient when you're traveling. I travel with it and they make it in some flavors that are even make it even more of a pleasure to take. So we've worked out a limited offer for weirdos. Receive 15 off your first order. Do your body a favor and get this into your daily routine. I take it in the morning. Go to triar.com weird or enter weird to get 15 off your first order. That's T-R-Y A R M R A dot com weird. Give it a try. Support your body and support the show. Another wonderful way to support the show is our friends at Living Libations. Living Libations is an absolute game changer. They make natural replacements for basically everything you have in your medicine cabinet in your beauty shelves. We're talking hair care, skin care, mouth teeth, babies. They have a wonderful high end balance. Badass meaning effective and powerful replacement for the random chemicals that we put on our skin in our mouths on our hair. That's just getting into our system. They make products with ingredients that you can absolutely pronounce. I'm talking about oils and extracts that are natural and from the earth, but they've worked it out. Like the exfoliating face wash that I absolutely love is the most badass exfoliant I've ever used in my life. And. And you look at the ingredients and you know and recognize every single thing in it. So it's not the stuff you get at CVS that is just, I don't know, slowly degrading. Everything natural and holy about you. Make the change. This is a great way to support the show. You can get something small, you can get something big. You can do what Val and I did, which is a complete medicine cabinet overhaul, or just get something like sunblock. It's summertime. Get the Love the sun. Actually zinc based sunblock. I say actually because so many that you see on Amazon or whatever, just say they're zinc based, but they're not. They're filled with chemicals. Get a real one. Get the. Love the sun. Living Libations. Sun block. Or get a face wash. Get the face moisturizer. We love the. The. I'm sorry, what am I. Why am I blanking on what it's called? It's called Best skin ever. There it is. Just remembered. Best skin ever. Whatever you need. There's something they have to replace the random chemical nightmare that you bought at 7:11. Something you can feel good about putting on and in your body. Living Libations is your friend. Support the show. Support your body, your teeth, your. Your hair, your eyes, your baby. Go. 15% go to living libations.com weird. Support the show. Living libations.com weird for 15% off. All right, everybody. So glad you're here.

[B]

Valerie, get into it. Ready, set, go.

[A]

Ready, set, go.

[B]

And here we are.

[A]

Here we are. It's the podcast. It's the spicy podcast podcast. Codcast. Hold on, I just got to get this out. Codcast. It's a podcast about fish.

[B]

About, like, the most boring fish.

[A]

Cod.

[B]

Cod.

[A]

I cod. Some cod. I cod. Cod. Last night. Thank God I caught that card.

[B]

This is just a new we 111.

[A]

Thank God I caught that card last night, Peter. Thank God I caught that card. It's getting crazier in the mouth.

[B]

What is do you.

[A]

Crazy in the mouth, Insane in the membrane.

[B]

What region dialect do you think you do best? Is it Boston?

[A]

That's interesting. I. I think I do Boston with the most confidence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I. Confidence, Peter. A director has to have confidence.

[B]

Can you do Boston? Like, do Bostonian as if you still had an accent? Did you ever have an accent?

[A]

Oh, that's cute. I like that. You don't know.

[B]

Yeah. Did you?

[A]

No.

[B]

No. You never had an accent?

[A]

I. I've. You know, I've made this joke before, but when Good Will Hunting came out, we all tried it. We wanted it. There was one. There was one kid at my. Because Lexington is like, I don't know, 45 minutes away. 40 minutes away. 30. Depends on how fast you're driving. 35. I don't know. I'm just saying, like, it's. It's classic suburbs. So a lot of our parents had it.

[B]

But you would think because your parents had it, you would have it.

[A]

But yeah, it really speaks to, like, how much more you're with your friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, like, I. This was just something that. That came to me was Lexington High School. And. And the. And the school, Cambridge Friend School I went to were sort of like good schools. So they probably drew people that weren't from Boston. In fact, I don't think my teachers were necessarily from Boston. They were just young, interesting educators that moved to a young, interesting city. But I don't think they were, like, from Dorchester.

[B]

That's so interesting.

[A]

No disrespect, Dorchester. I think. Keep chest in those doors.

[B]

I'm trying to think, because we often talk about how the south is similar to Boston.

[A]

Southy.

[B]

No, just the actual American South. Not everything revolves around New England.

[A]

No. Newport.

[B]

But I'm trying to think if there is an equivalent in the South. I guess they. There is. I think they're probably. It felt like people from Dallas or like, you know, Houston didn't have, like, Jamie Lee, I don't think, ever had accent. And she is from Dallas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think. I guess there is. It's funny, but that just wasn't.

[A]

Jamie and I are super close, obviously, and we've. I've never been like, why don't you have an accent? It never occurred to me to ask her that.

[B]

I couldn't. Whenever I meet somebody who tells me that they were born and raised in Texas and they don't have an accent, I. I'm baffled because. Yeah, my corner of Texas is the most backwoods, like, back desert.

[A]

No woods.

[B]

No, there is woods.

[A]

There's no.

[B]

In East Texas. It's all woods, baby. You've been there.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Texarkana.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's really beautiful.

[B]

Yeah. East Texas.

[A]

Shout out to Texarkana Keep rocking it. Keep kind of being two places. It's sexy. It's sexy. Oh, I'm the only one that's rock hard. Because you're Texas and Arkansas.

[B]

They.

[A]

You need rock hard.

[B]

You need to know your audience. They would hate this crude humor.

[A]

They would hate it, but they would secretly love it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I think is interesting, because it's.

[B]

Pro Texas, which is their favorite thing.

[A]

Pro Texas. But also like in I've made this point a billion. And you know, I'm just saying, like, places like this love porn. I'm not trying to be fire shots here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When they look at like, who's looking at porn? A lot of the more like value laden places. Like, what I'm saying is, like, hopefully there is someone in tech Sarc. I'm frame it positively. No shame here. No shade here.

[B]

No shade. Yeah.

[A]

No shade or shame.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That you might be a sweet Texarkan. Arkansan.

[B]

Arkansan.

[A]

You're a Texarkon san. And you do love saying oh my heavens and clutching your pearls and that's beautiful. But then you get in your car, you light up a camel. A camel wide.

[B]

No, there's definitely this.

[A]

And you roll up the windows and you have your little naughty time. And if I can be that and talk about being rock hard for your state. And you laugh and like, no one is hurt.

[B]

No, they. They do.

[A]

They do.

[B]

I. I have more extended relatives that are. Are in factual.

[A]

Well, that's why the phenomenon of like Howard Stern and stuff. I remember reading this. It's one of those things I've probably quoted a thousand times on the pod, but it's like there's something about the alone in your car that like, welcomes these sort of strange, wicked rituals. Like, I'm gonna listen to this weird. I don't know where Howard Stern is from, but I'm listening to this attitude. New York, man.

[B]

I did that.

[A]

I'm gonna. He's talking to a stripper. Like, you love it.

[B]

Yeah, you love it.

[A]

And you know, sometimes I think I've said this before. People tell me that they sometimes play this podcast, like in their coffee shop or maybe an Uber driver, and they don't turn it down when the passenger gets in. And I'm like, look, respect. But yeah, you never know.

[B]

I checked out my new favorite thing. The Quinn app.

[A]

Oh, the audio sex on a drive.

[B]

Because I was audio sex. It's not. I would. I call it audio eroticism.

[A]

Wait, you listen to it to stay awake?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Brill.

[B]

I know. I was Getting tired on a drive.

[A]

I once was nodding off at the wheel and I put on the sound of pornography to keep me awake.

[B]

I mean, that's essentially what I did.

[A]

I couldn't watch it. I know. That's why I'm emboldened to share this. I've been embarrassed by that. But I was literally in danger and I was like, I think if I really get my heart going. Wasn't watching it. Just the sound of smacking.

[B]

I mean there is that there. Like that's one of the options really.

[A]

You can have smacking.

[B]

Oh yeah. Like, and then actually, actually that's.

[A]

Wait. I feel like I am gonna like this app.

[B]

You are. I'm gonna be telling you. Everybody will there and they do it so well that there is literally something for everyone. So actually the default.

[A]

This should be a sponsor. Quinn slash.

[B]

I know Rock Hardware. I would love. I could do such a good ad for them.

[A]

So will you reach out?

[B]

Okay. I'm sorry I guilt you.

[A]

We've gone from me not knowing exactly. To me already mad at you that you didn't reach out to a sponsor.

[B]

But the, the. I mean, it's fully like they're not doing it. It's not. It's not two people actually doing it. It is a person and they're like speaking. Yeah. But they're good at it. It's not just.

[A]

How do you know it's not real?

[B]

Because you never hear the other person. You are the other person. That's what's great about it.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

It's like. But you do hear.

[A]

I feel like. Have we set this up? This is an app that you listen to. It's audio eroticism.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's called Quinn. Which by the way, as I've settled in for a good old fashioned wank, I've never, I've never been able to remember that it's called Quinn. I've never. I've thought and then I've thought of like, look, it's one of the crown jewels of my life that I can tell you that I am a person who masturbates. Like I'm not ashamed of it. And so much so that I would ask you, hey, what's the name of that audio erotica app without any. But the problem is like, you know, I look in the moment, I'm hungry and there's a sandwich and I'm just going to eat any sandwich.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think it's. I, to me it has solved. It wasn't a problem. But like, you know, I like you Would go in and out of, like, porn phases and I just never pee pees. Loved it when I was in one. I feel like no shade or shame.

[A]

I've told you that I got. I think I've mentioned this a million times. I was at the Comedy Cellar and a young woman, like, kind of yelled at me. She was a little drunk for being like, sex shamey about porn and about strippers, sex workers. And, like, was like this, like, that's over. Like, stop it. And I was like, what is happening? Right, yeah. No, no, no.

[B]

I'm talking about my own personal experience. No, no, no, not that. I don't think I, you know, whatever.

[A]

I actually firmly disagree with that person and think that a good percentage of pornography is like a bad situation.

[B]

Yeah. I think what I didn't like about it most of the time was that.

[A]

I don't know, but I'm just taking.

[B]

Me, like TV sort of makes you dissociate. It was making me dissociate at a very key time when I want to be actually very much in my body and. And like with my body.

[A]

And it's funny for all the headlines of men. Headlines. Men being visual. I actually think what's going on is men are disembodied, more disembodied and more in their head. So it's not really visual stimuli. It's an ignorance of the other stimuli.

[B]

You said a mouthful there, sister. I think that is a really good point.

[A]

We've done this before last week. I find it very funny. The hahahas are very funny to me. They're like sort of. It's a little sweaty. It's a little. It's not good. And I like that the notes don't change.

[B]

Wait, have we talked about our. I mean, it should have been she.

[A]

We've talked about it.

[B]

We've talked about it. Okay. All right. Well, then you guys just have to remember because we're not going to get into it now.

[A]

Well, I feel like now we should say there's a song where Ray Charles goes like, I was walking. Now it's really like this. I was walking. It's one of those talk singing songs. We're walking down the street. Just the other day, he's really talking like this. Like he's putting on a funny voice. And I looked in the window and I saw my baby. She was eating an ice cream sundae with my buddy, old Jim. And that's when I thought, man, I should have been him. It should have been me eating that ice cream and cake. It should have been me. Like, it's. So We've talked about this before, but it is the most 1950s song of all time. It's just a broke guy, which I feel like everyone was broke.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Looking at ice cream and just going like that. Like, this is before. Before we all had ice cream just shooting up our ass for 5 cents. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. It was like a luxury before Thrifty ice Cream.

[A]

It's before Thrifty in the. In the pharmacy. It's. And he had, like. I just can see the newspaper that he put in his shoe because there's a hole, you know, like, it just. It reeks. And he's wearing suspenders, and they're getting. You can tell they're gonna snap. And he just sees a guy eating ice cream and cake, and he. And he's like, it should have been me. The bit we did with that is that he's a closeted homosexual.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For Pride Month, here we are. And. And he sees someone getting a blowjob. And then he goes, it should have been me sucking that big old dick. It should have. And then he goes, oh, it should have been she.

[B]

Like, he tries to trace her backpedal. I mean, it should have been she.

[A]

In the explaining, I'm realizing that, like, it won't. It won't be as fun. It might be. I don't know who you guys are.

[B]

Yeah. Who are you even?

[A]

Who are you? I'm gonna find this.

[B]

I think it will be. I think. I think you explained it perfectly.

[A]

Did I?

[B]

I think it's. I think it translates. I'm gonna go ahead.

[A]

Well, the first time you did. Should have.

[B]

Well, you said. Because we were just, like, cleaning up or something, and you were singing that song, and then you went, should have been me sucking that big.

[A]

Well, I can't stop saying.

[B]

And then I went. I mean, it should have been she.

[A]

And I. I died, but I think it'll translate. Oh, your volume. As I pass by okay, we gotta start it over.

[B]

Why am I laughing like that today? It's so weird.

[A]

I liked it. As I pass by a real fine hotel A chick walked out she sure looks well I gave the eye started to carry When a Cadillac cruised up and switched she was gone it should have been me Will that a real fine chick it should have been me Will that be a fine chick? It should have been me driving that Cadillac. Okay. Like, I can just see the. The.

[B]

You should be listening to Ray Charles more.

[A]

I love Ray Charles. You know, my walkout music. Is Ray Charles.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Has been for years. Love him. Always puts me in a good mood. I can. Is crop like some sort of. Like. I see, like, farmers that are, like, farming dust. And they're so sad. And they go out at night and the guy's like. A girl walked by and a guy got her in a cad. Should have been. And they're just like. Yeah, they're drinking moonshine. You know what I mean? Like this song. Look, there's something beautiful about this. Everybody was having the same problem. You know what I'm saying? No girl, no food, no work. And he's like, no, Cadillac. It should have been me. And you're just like, yeah. And now it's like, there's too many micro climates.

[B]

Well, that was like true country music. Like what country music now is trying to do. That's when it was.

[A]

That's what I mean. I mean, I guess you're really understanding. Thank you.

[B]

He was rich, too. Maybe at this point, I think.

[A]

At this point he's not rich.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that's, like, real. This is early, early, early, early Ray Charles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a he could see joke. I'm not gonna do it.

[B]

Well, you did do it, and it's fine.

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

You said it.

[A]

I didn't edit it out. Edit it back in and then edit it out again.

[B]

And then you decide.

[A]

And then you decide. Press 1 on your phone. If you want that bit in there, then there's no choice. If you don't want it in there, just don't press one. Okay. Look, where are you. What is it? What? What is what? What are.

[B]

Yeah, what were we saying?

[A]

It should have been me. Well, we talked a lot about.

[B]

No, but before that, you talked about a different Ray Charles song or. Oh, no, we just sang I Got a Woman.

[A]

Oh. Because I was saying. Thank you. You did it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I was saying that men are more. Not in their bodies. And you're talking about Quinn.

[B]

I'm talking about.

[A]

Which again, I can't believe I remembered it. Because I have to go.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because it doesn't sound like Mrs. Quinn, the medicine woman. M.D.

[B]

I honestly think of that. Yeah. Quinn. Dr. Quinn.

[A]

Doctor. Mrs. Quin. This is Quinn, M.D.

[B]

Your misogyny show.

[A]

I can't operate on this child. He's my son.

[B]

But the dad died.

[A]

Oh, he's gay. There's two dad. Like, it's the gay positive misogynist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you don't, I'm going to have to tell it. If you don't know What I'm talking about. It's the riddle that you tell to prove that people are sexist. A man and his son are in a car accident. The dad is killed instantly. They take the son to the hospital. The doctor comes out and says, I. I can't operate on this boy. He's my son. What happened? The surgeon is a woman, but the guy that refuses that, he's like, Ah, 2Dads.

[B]

I get it. 2Dads. That's beautiful. He loves you.

[A]

Beautiful. It's beautiful. One's a bad driver, one's a surgeon. Those are two good dads. I'm assuming it was his fault.

[B]

Yes. So anyway, the Quinn app is just audio, and it has all kinds of different categories. Genders, accents. Like, I'm pretty much exclusively on the British accent.

[A]

I'm going straight, you know. My favorite adult I know is from Wales.

[B]

Oh. And there's probably British.

[A]

They grow them like you in Wales. I don't know what's going on. I think most women in Wales look like you.

[B]

I think it's just a sea of.

[A]

Valves that are like, hello. Got yourself a bit of a. Bit of a problem in your trousers, do you? And I'm like, keep me out of Wales is what I'm saying. This. This engagement ends if I ever touch down in Wales.

[B]

Engagement.

[A]

By the way, I'm basing that on one woman from Wales. Yeah, I saw 1,000 times.

[B]

But I do. I don't see a lot of women in the, like, British accent category, but I do think there is one that you might be interested in. But anyway. And it is. But so the default is the Foley.

[A]

Of, like, sucking dicks and shit. Yeah, yeah, that works.

[B]

But you can do it without the sounds like that. One of the categories is no sound effects. So it's just the voices. I've never explored that because it works for me.

[A]

You like the sound?

[B]

I like the sound. I'm getting lost in the world. I feel like I'm there.

[A]

Yeah. I've gone on American pornography sites and typed in ASMR before.

[B]

Yeah, it is. So asmr and I told our friend about this.

[A]

ASMR is, like, so close. Oh. To sexual.

[B]

I would say ASMR is literally sensual.

[A]

It's incredibly sensual, so it makes perfect sense.

[B]

And then. And by the way, is a move that I have used before where somebody does something and I'm like, oh, my God, you just gave me ASMR.

[A]

Wow. I'm sorry. Let me just go on Expedia.com and see how many directs there are. To whales today because I didn't know we were being unfaithful. You mean pre Pete. You don't mean pre beat?

[B]

No.

[A]

You're out there flirting. Yeah. You told Brett Goldstein he gave you asmr Probably. Wow. Wow. Did I give you ASMR just then?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[A]

Was the sound of me scratching my chest hair a bit of a turn on me just there scratching me chest hair?

[B]

It's clearly been a while since I.

[A]

Was on Ted Lasso. No, I saw him recently and he. He talks a little bit like that. I. Up at a few octaves because I can't handle how much you love him.

[B]

No, you can.

[A]

I just don't have one.

[B]

Well, we gotta get you to Wales.

[A]

You don't want me in Wales.

[B]

You just keep saying that.

[A]

You don't want me eating, like, cabbage and, like, brie with some lady and a big old pint of warm beer, and then we're in a creaky, like, brass framed bed and, oh, this is doing it for me. I'm just kidding. I actually kind of wanted it to be gross, like, we're full of cabbage.

[B]

Well, you did start gross. Yeah, you and. I mean, it was kind of gross.

[A]

You want to sp. Something that I've enjoyed in pornography that's always British is. Oh, this is so amazing. Huh?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

What's tripping?

[B]

Tripping is the British term for scissoring.

[A]

Oh, that's funny.

[B]

Yeah. Tripping.

[A]

Yeah, they have their own terms.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like tit wank.

[B]

Yeah, I'm.

[A]

I'm. I felt like Paul Rudd. Yeah. They have their own terms like tit wank.

[B]

You did.

[A]

That was a Paul Rudd. That's what he does. He looks like. Like a newsboy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then he says tit wank.

[B]

Yeah. And then we're like all like.

[A]

No, they have down blouse. Do you know what down blouse is?

[B]

Oh, where you're looking down someone's blouse.

[A]

It's intention.

[B]

Figure it out. I think.

[A]

All right. Didn't need this. At this moment, this moment of vulnerability. Down blousing. Which is not my cup of tea. Cup of tea. I would tell you if it was.

[B]

But I've shocked that it isn't.

[A]

I've enjoyed it. It's just. No, no, no, I've enjoyed it. It's not my go to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm actually sort of in like a. We don't have to talk about how I feel about pornography. I'm just saying I haven't looked at in a long time. But what it is, it's always British it's something about my blood peoples that like a good naughty bit of. And it's always. It's not. Secret camera. Real people down blouse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's all.

[B]

I hate that no secret camera thing for me that I think we can objectively be like, that person doesn't know.

[A]

No, that's illegal and fucked up. I've never seen that. I'm just clear that this is a model. This is a adult film star who's not wearing a bra. And you can kind of see down her shirt. And she's just kind of going like, do you think he's here? Like, she's looking out the window.

[B]

I mean, one of the.

[A]

Do you think he's here? And every once in a while you just get like a flutter of. Of nip and you're like. And then like 8,000 pairs of. Of jiggling breasts and like you're desensitized. It's nice to go old school and just look at it.

[B]

That's what I.

[A]

Why is it always British? There's no American down blouse.

[B]

Is there not?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Well, I.

[A]

Something else. Like. Yeah, you have to.

[B]

You have to voice dictate.

[A]

Google audio search and then it'll show you those.

[B]

I had to voice dictate the word. So I was like. I think it just needs a little. Like I. I was texting that. I think it just needs a little. And then I just hit.

[A]

And what did it write?

[B]

It didn't know what to do.

[A]

Yeah. No, it doesn't know. Judge.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, I have a guess. I think. Well, I. British stuff. Stuff I think in general works maybe because it's like repressed in the way that Christianity. Yes, we were repressed.

[A]

God saved the Queen.

[B]

So that.

[A]

And it's very like boarding school and like. Eyes on your paper, Mr. Porter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Stop looking down Hermione's blouse, you little dirty purse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Erectus deplores. He's calling it a deplorable erection. Erected deploras.

[B]

Very good.

[A]

Stay away from me, clitoris. These are the ways you can be British. Kind of like a pirate who's filthy or the. The king. You get that? No, in between. Everyone's either trying to be the king or this guy. I haven't shaved in a while.

[B]

I haven't shaved in a while. No.

[A]

And when I did, it was with the butt. I know, I. Oh, you say. We'd have bought a knife. I don't know why.

[B]

I don't know why. Yeah. But anyway, I don't remember.

[A]

You're talking about.

[B]

Oh, looking down the blouse. Yeah, I think. Oh. One of my earliest memories was doing. I mean, but it wasn't sexual, I don't think. No, it wasn't. But it was like I was very interested in like my kindergarten teacher's down blouse.

[A]

Val. I wanted to do a show. I never really fleshed it out much, but it was going to be called Perv and it was just about. I thought it was interesting. I thought sexually it's not, it's less. This is pre two.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is before. I'm not saying there's anything like illegal or strange about it, but like it just, you know, the climate change. Anyway, the idea of like a guy who was raised religious and finds weird things sexually attractive just seemed less interesting to me. But I, I, I, I've been on. It was based on being on a date and probably gonna have sex with me, like with my girlfriend at the time. But then like seeing the outline of someone's underwear and that being more, yes, exciting. But it's, it's the back rub. It's the back rub.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If someone comes up behind you and rubs your shoulders, it feels better than any massage you've ever paid for.

[B]

100%.

[A]

So like a, A wild caught.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As opposed to. Let's call it what it is. This marriage is farm raised.

[B]

And I.

[A]

That was supposed to make you laugh.

[B]

Wait, our marriage is farm raised?

[A]

Well, we're in captivity now. There's like a circle in the ocean. Yeah, that's like one of those sad circles. There's like a fence in the ocean.

[B]

It's like an above ground pool, but it is under the ocean and it's full of fish.

[A]

Sometimes you just look at what we're doing as a species and we're just like, you didn't see it coming. You didn't see the end of the world coming. You built a fence in the ocean and it's filled with 9,000 pieces of salmon shit and a couple fish that have like nine eyeballs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we're so fucking stupid.

[B]

It's so bizarre. Yeah, it's, it's less fun and interesting to talk about.

[A]

No, no, no. We'll move on. But I will recommend you are what you eat on Netflix. Now that I'm vegan, I'm emboldened to watch all the vegan documentaries and I'm really enjoying it. But it is. We're back to. The challenge of veganism for me is really feeling like I'm better than people and wanting to tell everyone to stop Eating chicken. It's gross.

[B]

Yeah. And you. You deliberately started being vegan with the intention that you wouldn't.

[A]

I know. No, no, no. That's why I'm saying this. Not to surrender and say, that's just how it is. I'm letting you know that, like, it sucks. Like, I hate it. It. I hate that, like, you'll be cooking chicken now, and there'll be a part of me that's, like, you know, a lot of chicken has E. Coli.

[B]

But you do like it because you're watching the documentary.

[A]

No, I like it because it encourages and bolsters my decision.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's tricky. Like, any issue, not just veganism. I'm sure my T shirt was made. I always go to child labor. But if you become woke. I mean that in the good way to any issue. One of the costs of that. This is why a lot of people just kind of go around whistling in the dark.

[B]

I understand. But I feel like I get. By the way, if you were. You set. The intention of, like, I'm gonna just be vegan again. It's just for me, I'm gonna try to not get judgmental about it, then the way to do that would be not to, like, bolster your decision, because the way you're bolstering it is by being like, this is the right.

[A]

That's true. But I actually think now, the way that information is spreading and stuff, I think Leela is going to be growing up in a way more. Something's got to give, is what I'm saying. Like, when it comes to, like, what we're eating, they're going to look at our time and be like, that was the precipice of something anyway. Who cares? Who fucking cares?

[B]

I already can't have gluten and soy and avocado and garlic.

[A]

How do you think I feel about alcohol? And you know what I mean? Like, that's why I won't quit coffee. I love it. I want to have something to be addicted to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I get it.

[B]

I know. It's so much.

[A]

It gets a little tricky, though. We won't talk about this anymore.

[B]

It's just so hard.

[A]

The link between processed meat and. And they're like. It's like smoking. It's, like, very similar to smoking.

[B]

I know, but there's also. There's Chinese medicine, and it's just like, there's so many.

[A]

No, I know, but that Chinese medicine, that was written on a scroll 5,000 years ago. I'm not. Not. I'm saying that in. As a Compliment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did not have these. I won't even go into it. That meat that they were saying you should eat to balance your. Your blood was not the meat that we're eating today.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Our meat is capital F, and 99% of it is fucked. It's not like. Anyway, this is stupid. Moving on. This is stupid. It's just our lives. Moving on. No, no, no. I want to stay on. Quinn, what are you. What are you flicking it to?

[B]

Jesus. I. Well, what I was gonna say is like, the. So looking down my kindergarten teachers.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

Like, it is interesting. There's almost. Well, one point. There's almost like. It feels like no gap between, like. All right, are we in. Are we sexually drawn to boobs?

[A]

Because we all got fed by them?

[B]

Because we. Yeah, because, like, it is a representation of mother.

[A]

So what's kinkier than covering up?

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know what I mean? It's like I put on this special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This special garment that holds them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So kinky.

[B]

When I. When I get kinky.

[A]

But you know what I mean, when.

[B]

I get dressed, the. Like, if you and Lila are in the room, you both make such a big deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About seeing my boobs.

[A]

Yeah. And it is obviously the real headliners in the house.

[B]

It's for very. Yeah, it's for very different reasons, but, like, I don't. I feel like there's no gap between, like.

[A]

No, we've made this point before. Everyone is fed by breasts.

[B]

Yeah, well, they're not.

[A]

That's absolutely true.

[B]

Even Leela wasn't for very long.

[A]

No, that's absolutely true. But everybody. I can't say in. Everybody's.

[B]

Namely your mother.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A mother. Part of the body.

[A]

Yeah. Everybody needs a bosom for a pillow. We're not going to go into it, but Nirvana, the band, the show has a very funny bit about that. That's. But we're not going to talk about it.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because it's, you know, it's edgy.

[B]

And Matt Johnson is my new crush, which is embarrassing because he's you.

[A]

No, I know. More embarrassing is I'm going through a Matt Johnson from Nirvana, the band who did this podcast. If you don't know who we're talking about, go listen to that episode and watch Nirvana, the band. The show. What's. It's not embarrassing if they're, you know, like, I have a. When there's a character like you in things, I love them. And it's natural that you would love Matt Johnson for reminding you of me, which I love. What's weird is that I'm obsessed with him.

[B]

Yeah, sure. I guess that is weirder.

[A]

I also have this, like, I see a guy and when he did the podcast, we got real deep. We talked about Beowulf and like, the meaning of live and all this stuff. And then when you watch his work, it's so incredibly silly. I'm like, oh, we're like, very similar in that way as well. So when I watch his work and he's being really silly, it's like a blood transfusion. It's like reminding me to be silly and to, like, go after it and find joy and play.

[B]

Yeah, no, it actually is really. Because I don't know if I have, like, a type because all of the men, if you gathered, all of the men that I've ever been attracted to, they are. They run the gamu.

[A]

We need like a. A fema, like a. Like a hurricane shelter for thousands and thousands of.

[B]

I actually am not very.

[A]

No, I know. I. I'm the same.

[B]

It's really rare that I feel very attracted.

[A]

That's what I hate about being single. As I'm like. And I'm one of these weirdos.

[B]

Yeah. But I am pretty rare, but. So it's hard to find like. Like what my type would be. But I. Let's just put it this way. I never. I listen to your. Most of the podcast episodes with guests.

[A]

But you skipped Matty J.

[B]

No, I watched that one on YouTube and I was like, this is my fantasy. It's two of the same guy.

[A]

Yeah. And you know. Yes.

[B]

And I was like, wow. Full lipped, silly and smart.

[A]

Yeah. And a little left of center, I'm gonna say about both of us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't mean that in a bad way. I like the way I look and I like the way he looks, but it's not. Not Jude Law. It's a goofy. There's a slight. There's a dash of goofy in the recipe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I like it.

[B]

My brother did say once. This was before you. He was like, you have like a. I don't care what he looks like with his shirt off kind of taste in me.

[A]

It's very funny. Yeah, that's true. That's completely true.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Yeah. No, I love that. And my. My thing with Matt being so funny. I texted him something about, like, the compliment. When we watch Nirvana, the band, I'll be goofing around the house and you'll ask me if I'm stoned.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I'll say, no, I was just watching Nirvana the band. And like, he thought.

[B]

And I was like, without me?

[A]

Well, probably clips from it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, just. I literally did that last night. I'm just so obsessed with it. But then I think, I wonder if this, this is sort of a leading in my favor question. But he's so funny. That part of my obsession is if he thinks I'm funny. That guy thinks I'm funny like that. I don't know if you feel that way about me.

[B]

Of course I do. Absolutely. Always have.

[A]

Especially because we're grump funnies.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We're not. Just like, Fred Armisen is one of the most. Just like guileless. Guileless sounds like a put down. But he's just kind of like, he's there, he's having fun. He's sweet, he's sort of innocent. He thinks people are interesting and funny. And I really, I say this not knowing Matt that well. I think he and I are going around being like, fighting off a darkness.

[B]

Yes. No, I think that's like, so if you make us laugh thing comes through. Like, I really was, like, listening to both of you, and I'm like, I am like, sexually attracted to depth. Like, I really want a, a thinker. And I didn't really know that about myself, but I, I, I'm. And it could be just because, like, you know, I'm drawn to you. And then also, like, that's just been cultivated over 11 years. You know what I mean?

[A]

We've been together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Holy.

[B]

Holy. It is time to go to whales.

[A]

It's time to meet a girl. Time to. I couldn't think of any Welsh names.

[B]

I don't know. That was the only word.

[A]

It's not a good Welsh name. Let's go to the break. I actually have. I'm very, very excited. I woke up this morning just to give a little preface before the, the mid rolls here. I've been doing trauma work, trauma therapy, and it's been incredibly intense. I've probably only done it four or five times now. And I think I mentioned this before, it's not what I did with Dr. Gary Penn, who I am forever grateful to, of the conceptualizing and the strategizing and the coping. This is just going in, looking under the pot lid and feeling it and just kind of honoring all of these feelings. And, you know, buyer beware. It's not easy and it's been incredibly. I won't say incredibly, but it's been disruptive to my life and in a way that I'm Dracula dead and loving it. But not always. Let me put it this way. I've been really up and down, and that's very normal for me. I'm a mood swingy motherfucker. But what's happened, it's been heightened. Usually I'll go up and down four times in a day. Like, I'll have a real manic. And then I'll have kind of a low manic low, manic low. And that's the day now. And that, brother, you got yourself a soup.

[B]

That's a Tuesday now.

[A]

I. I swear on some of the days, it's been like eight times. So, like, double the ups and downs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like a lot of. And my therapist Claudia, who I'm obsessed with, and I'm always telling you that I live uval with a trauma therapist is incredibly useful. But, like, she's been validating for me and I really need that. Like, oh, you're having trauma response responses. Like tunnel vision. Tight, like, elevated heart, like catastrophizing black and white, all or nothing. Oftentimes it's going around money. It's so easy for my anxiety to add up what we owe in a month and go, where are you going to get that? Where are you going to get that? And I have to. Something I've been saying is, like, you don't need it all right now. You do little things here and there, and it adds up, up. Yeah, but like, God, I'm getting wrecked. And like, having, like, I was in this office chasing a fly. I was trying to print out passport photos for myself, and there was a fly in here and I couldn't get it. And I'm joking now because I feel regulated and good now. But I was chasing this fly and I couldn't get it. And I was, like, deeply sad and angry both. So I'm having these responses over flies that aren't about the fly at all. Yeah, I'm just getting wrecked.

[B]

It's like the Breaking Bad episode.

[A]

It made me think of that. And I was like, why wasn't that episode better? Because.

[B]

Oh, I loved that episode.

[A]

It's okay. I always just go like, oh, they didn't have the budget for a real episode. Like, I, I just.

[B]

Because it was a bottle of episode.

[A]

Yeah, bottle episodes always feel like. And we can save the money for this cool episode by having one where they're stuck in the car. That's. That's a byproduct of being in tv. But I also think at that point, it was the most popular show on tv. Probably not the problem.

[B]

Anyway, let's I do want to talk more about this. Should we go to the mid rolls? The teaser I thought well I want.

[A]

The teaser is yeah, I've been regulating and needing to regulate more and what I read this morning and what we'll start the second half of the episode with is what I read this morning and it blew my D off and I'm really excited to share it. So come back. That's it. We'll talk to you. And we'll talk to you in a minute. This episode is brought to us by our friends at onit, the makers of Alpha Brain, the supplement, the nootropic supplement that has absolutely changed my life, changed the way I work, changed the way I read, changed the way I communicate. Before I do this podcast, every single episode, I'm taking two or three alpha brain. 15 minutes before I record. I'm sitting down to read a book that I really want to retain and hold on to. I wish I knew about Alpha Brain in college for real. And as I always say, if I'm just going out on a date and want to have access to my memories and to my words, I take Alpha Brain. I'm constantly taking Alpha Brain. Think about it. Anything that you do that involves your brain, if you want to be able to access the potential of your mind quicker, more easily with earth grown ingredients. It's not a stimulant. It's not like caffeine just gives your your brain the nutrition that it needs to function at its best. Absolute, absolute, absolute game changer. If you like it 1/10 as much as I do, you're going to lose your mind. Fine. You're gonna your pants. Go to onnit.com weird use promo code weird at checkout for 10 off go to on it o n n I t.com weird for that discount and support your brain Also while you're at it, go to modernmammals.com weird and use promo code Weird for the only shampoo that I've ever used that makes my hair looks incredible look incredible. It is. Here's how. I'll sell it to you in 15 seconds. Explain it to you in 15 seconds. It is the shampoo that cleans your hair but makes it look like you didn't wash your hair. That's all I have to say. Modern mammals.com weird promo code weird. You can try both the bar and the bottle for a limited time offer of 44 bucks. The bar and the bottle, both of which I love. Give it a try instead of shampooing your hair and Having it look like a bale of hay. You can wash your hair, clean your hair there and have it look absolutely perfect, as if there's just the right amount of product because it leaves just enough oil in there. Modern mammals. Dot com. Weird. All right, everybody, back to the show.

[B]

All right, all right, all right. We're back.

[A]

And we're back. You bought yourself some modern mammals. All right. That I legit love. I'm not disparaging. All right, wonderful.

[B]

We got it.

[A]

All right. So. So, interestingly, while I hope this is interesting, everyone that's listened to these semi regularly knows there was, like, a good year, maybe where I was. Really couldn't stop talking about A Course in Miracles. And I still love A Course in Miracles. But I haven't been reading it just because I kind of shifted the whole idea that, like, the origin of reality is guilt and that we're, like, hiding from God, which is. I've never met a Course in Miracle student that, in my opinion, grasps that that's what it's saying.

[B]

Oh, that's no one.

[A]

No one has ever. They don't know what I'm talking about. I've only met a couple other Course in Miracles people. There's a lesson in there that says the world was made as an attack on God. I'm like, how are you ignoring this? How are people? Don't get me started. People. People. So anyway, while I think it's absolutely incredible and life changing and I've loved it, I sort of backed away from it because I prefer Rupert Spira's interpretation of the same idea, which is that life is an expression of the inevitable infinite creativity of consciousness, that it just wants to express itself and sort of dance with itself is better to me than what I think is true to a certain extent, that we think we killed God and therefore we're hiding from him here. So I turned away from the second one of those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's ultimately why I was like, okay. I literally read. I say this because I'm proud of it. I read almost half of the text, which is hundreds of pages. I love it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I ended up going more Rupert Spira. That being said, I have this book called Accept this Gift. It's selections from A Course in Miracles and just kind of in this weird trauma space, been going, like, you know, like we said about weed, that inevitably stopped working as it always does. But I'm like, I need a disruption. I need to change what I'm doing. And maybe I'll read something from the course. And I Thought this was really, really beautiful. Keeping in mind what I've been going through, meaning I've been focus thinking a lot about my trauma. And then the world starts feeling a little bit less. Less safe.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I'm visiting my child self. He's got a lot of fear. I'm talking to my protector a lot, and it's just like a lot of scary stuff. And then I go into the world and no, I'm worried about money because I'm worried about. I can't. I had this real epiphany where I was like, all of this, like, pampering and wanting to be in show business and wanting to have, like, nice things is all trying to tell that child self like, I got you, I got you, I got you. You're special. Look, look, you're on a set and there's a bowl of skittles. I got you. And look, and where I brought you.

[B]

Look at how you're not there anymore.

[A]

Yes, that's right. But now I'm spending all this time going back there and it's been clouding my reality. It's been making life a little bit sadder and a lot more anxious. So then I read this this morning, and I think it's. It has none of that guilt thing. 90% of the course doesn't have any of that. Here we go. It's called perception. Misperceptions produce fear, and true perceptions foster love. You respond to what you perceive, and as you perceive, so shall you behave. Everything you perceive is a witness to the thought system you want to be true. It means fear or love. What you perceive in others, you are strengthening in yourself. Perception is a choice and not a fact. But on this choice depends far more that you may realize as yet. For on the voice you choose to hear and on the sights you choose to see depends entirely your whole belief in what you are. Instruction in perception is your great need. What would you see the choices given you? But learn and do not let your mind forget this law of seeing. You will look upon that which you feel within. Isn't that beautiful? If hatred finds a place within your heart, you will perceive a fearful world held cruelly in death's sharp, pointed, bony fingers. If you feel the love of God within you, you will look out on a world of mercy and of love. So as I was reading this, I was feeling kind of like victim Y. And I was like, ugh, I'm so wrecked. I just need to be under a blanket. And I was like, yeah, because you've been looking at, like, Fear and depravity and all of this hard stuff. And as soon as I just read, if you feel the love of God within you, which when I look for it, I'm reminded of it and go, you will look out on a world of mercy and love. And it immediately like lifted a cloud from me. It was incredible. Learn how to look on all things with love, appreciation and open mindedness. You have no conception of the limits and you have placed on your perception and no idea of all the loveliness that you could see. Perception can make whatever picture the mind desires to see. Perception can make whatever picture the mind desires to see. Remember this, in this lies either heaven or hell, as you elect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it writes, perception is a mirror, not a fact. And what I look on is my state of mind reflected outward.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

Isn't that good?

[B]

Yeah. And I, and I feel like the, like the part that was like, look upon everything with acceptance, love, whatever.

[A]

It's like open mindedness.

[B]

Open mindedness. Including your fear, including your anxiety, including your pain. That's what happens when we stop and turn and face the monster, which is what you've done. And it's no mistake. This is what I told you yesterday, like you were brave enough to go to therapy to say to the therapist, I don't want to conceptualize. I'm ready to feel all of this because the only way to heal it is to feel it. It, the only way out is through. And that's what's happening. So this is right. It's not because it, we go so quickly to like, I'm so reactive, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm having eight ups and downs a day. Something must be wrong. And it's like, no, actually that's the sign that you are doing it. This is what doing it looks like. It's perfect. It's perfect. And, and looking. The paradigm shift of looking at it anytime I, of course, still, when I have big feelings, the first reaction will always be to avoid it or find a problem in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But more and more you will have different associations and I will. I even got to a point with my, the thick of my trauma therapy where I would be excited because I would go, oh, another batch of feelings.

[A]

That I'm working through.

[B]

Offloaded.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's coming up to come out. And that will be that.

[A]

See, you have all these good ones. It's coming up to come out.

[B]

It's coming up to come out.

[A]

I don't know that one.

[B]

And that is. And, and that means you don't have to carry it anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Every. So it's productive. It's not just circling the drain, which is what happens if you avoid the feeling things. But then when you can accept, when you. So if you find just a way in to acceptance. And for me the way in was like, all right, here we go. This is offloading. I won't have to carry this around anymore. After I feel it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then I accept the feeling. And I've looked at everything, I'm looking at that now with acceptance, love and open mindedness. And it's changed my perception.

[A]

No, this is. This sounds like trauma stuff. It really does. And it's also just. It empowered me to remember that there's this choice. You might even be looking at the same thing, meaning I'm not going to look away from the trauma. But you can look at the same thing with those. It's just what you just said.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But one of the things I found very interesting, if you've been keeping up with the ups and downs of nicotine, who cares? But I think it's interesting, like all of these stuff, self soothing things. And I, I was surprised that like the past week, like I quit alcohol and I'd never, I never crave alcohol. Maybe if we're like, I don't. I can't even think of one. But there have been a few times where I'm like, this is interesting, but like, I'm jealous that you're having a drink right now. That's happened maybe three times in the past seven years. But with nicotine. This past week I was just like, God damn it. Like, we're gonna see my parents this weekend. My, my balls hurt when I said that. Just like I hate. It's tr. It's tricky for me. And like this past week I've been really. I, I hear this persuasive guy come in and he's like. Like you with. With meat. It's like you, you don't do anything. It's courageous. Like just have a thing. And more than just like, nicotine isn't just a thing. It's a dopamine. It's a dopamine. Spiking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it gives you this feeling. Good feeling. But I see it as a, As a self soothing, like as a.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

As a. More. You can only masturbate 42 times a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you can chew nicotine gum all day and just kind of like keep medicating yourself or whatever. Whatever your thing might be.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

But interestingly, I was feeling that I was feeling that. I was feeling that. And, and luckily I was just kind of like, don't, don't go back. Like trust the you that, that got off it. And then I had therapy and in therapy I'm always going to my childhood bedroom and visiting my child self. And we've talked a little bit about this and last session I talked to my protector and classic stuff. It was like, how old do you think I am? Does he look tired? Do you want a break? Like, what do you think is happening?

[B]

What do you think will happen if you, if.

[A]

And we uncovered that. We were like, if you. And it's always he's guarding the door to my bedroom and if he doesn't guard it, my parents will eat me. They'll like, they'll somehow consume me or I'll become like them in, in some way that I don't want to be. It's really horrible. I mean that quite literally. It's horrors.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like it's my own little horror movie. Of course. And even talking about it now, it, it brings up. I always picture these breast implants, but they're filled with tears. But you know, like kind of silicon bags filled with tears behind my eyes. Anyway, that wasn't necessary. Anyway, I, I, I said I went in as my grown up self and was like, what do you think's behind this door? And I go, this door doesn't exist. And I opened it and I took him into the house and we saw that it was a movie set. Like that house doesn't exist anymore.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, and, and I was like, my parents aren't here anymore. My mom isn't in the bedroom crying and my dad isn't here. And you know, like it's not here. And I don't, it wasn't like a one moment fix.

[B]

No, there are none of them.

[A]

Right, right, right. I know, but it's so beautiful. If it was a movie, you'd be like. And the protector saw that it was a movie set and it's over. Yeah, but what's fucking trippy is after that session I, my desire for nicotine completely went away. And, But I'm not trying to moralize nicotine. If you're enjoying this episode chewing on some nigga. There's no judgment at all. Yeah, it's just, I'm just saying, I was looking. What I was looking to soothe was actually this belief that, that my parents are going to come in and somehow devour me or that negativity was going to somehow overtake me. Very Lord of the Rings. Very. Like there's a darkness. And. And so what I just read was, you know, it feels like trauma work to me. It's like, I know we're honoring it, and we're saying it's not happening. And that was my homework, Claudia's homework, for me for the week and for my trip home was to just keep reminding it. Like, look at how many people love you. Look at where you are. Like, I was having therapy, and I saw you walking out to feed the bunnies, and I was like, I can't hold both of them. It's one of the reasons I love being with you. It's like, I can't hold that I'm not that boy if I'm with you. But then sometimes in the middle of the night or when I'm alone or whatever it might be, start feeling that way again, and it comes out anyway. Do you want to hear the second? Okay, go ahead. And we'll just know we have the second thing to read.

[B]

Okay. Well, yeah, no, I was.

[A]

Sorry, we're out of time. Time.

[B]

I was going to say that's it's helpful to know what's happening. So one of the feelings that happens early in trauma work and. And also if you're not doing trauma work and it's catching up with you in some way, the one of the first feelings is, like, fragmentation, and I would couple with that confusion. So it's sort of this, like, everything is disorganized. I know I have all these feelings, and I think maybe it's about this, but, like, why am I feeling that way? I don't know. And it's just, like, all of it is disorganized. So it's really helpful to, like, have things like saying to yourself, you know, like, what your homework was, like, having phrases to say to yourself when you're starting to get heightened and dysregulated. And something like that is not happening anymore is so good, because what's going on is your limbic brain doesn't know time. Your lizard brain does not know this construct of time that we've created with a different part of our brains. So you aren't just feeling like, there's a fly in the room. You are feeling like all of the times that something wasn't working the way that you wanted it to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That. You know that.

[A]

Why aren't I being protected from this?

[B]

Why? Yes, exactly. Why is something.

[A]

That's how I feel with the leaf blower in the background right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's taking a lot of my energy to. But I'm looking at it. I'm going, yeah. It's not just an abstraction. I'm like. That feels like there's a fight coming up the stairs.

[B]

Absolutely. And so to. That's where concepts are helpful, where you are using it as a container to go, okay, what do I go back to? What I know. I know what's happening. I'm feeling the backlog of feelings, so there's no shame around it. I know that I have to feel things to let them come out. So this is good. So I'm gonna sit here and let these feelings, like, start for me. It starts at my belly. It moves to my chest, it comes up in my throat, and either it comes out in a cry or a breath, and then it's out. And then another one comes. But there is a pause in between. There's movement. So you can feel. It's good.

[A]

You're talking to me as it's happening.

[B]

Yeah. And isn't it a real. It's a relief once you drop out of the stories about it. Why is it happening? Why? Like, how could it be happening after all of this work I've done?

[A]

My exact experience right now.

[B]

I'm so glad. So the brain is a barking dog trying to tell you someone's at the door. Ignore that. Thank you for trying to protect us. Let's just go to the door and see who's there. Okay. It's just a sensation that's ready to be released. It's such good news. It means that you've created a safe environment and that you don't have to carry this anymore. I always picture, like, somebody in my belly, like, really my body, I guess, sort of just tossing clothes out of a suitcase, being like, thank you. Like, it's been carrying this suitcase. And it is so thrilled that you showed up. Up to let it unpack this burden.

[A]

Wow. This is great. I don't think I'll ever forget this. Because, you know, it's not without some vulnerability that I admit that the sound of this guy blowing leaves behind me is. You know, again, just to use my therapist language, I'm having a trauma response. Like.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm thinking about it, and, like, it was happening earlier, and I was not thinking about it, but for some reason, I'm thinking about it. And what I'm. Really. What I'm recognizing is there's a. There's an addiction that I have. Meaning it doesn't work, but it's a familiar pathway in my brain to My strategy is usually to fantasize about some way to destroy this person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whether it be, like, going, like, talking to our neighbor and being like, why does your gardener come every day?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is true. Her gardener comes every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why is this man here every day? Blah, blah, blah. But that doesn't work. It's just, like, me. It's the dog barking like I want to, or the fantasy might be going out and yelling at him, like, why are you here every day? Or, you know, and it doesn't work. But there is, like, a. It's an addiction in the sense that it's what I'm doing. It doesn't work, and I keep doing it because it's familiar. But as you were saying, that close thing, I'm just like. And the gap between my mind really will just go like, I'm having a trauma response. It is a constant breakless. And it's not. I'm like, oh, there's a shirt and there's a pair of pants coming out, and. And I actually. But the reason I recognize that it's an addiction is there's almost part of me that doesn't want you to be right. But I was trying to go like, no, but she is right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not a constant. It's up and out, up and out, up and out.

[B]

Well, another way to look at it other than an addiction, which, you know, I do think you were right. It's. I think, more than an addiction, it's potentially a groove in your brain, like you said.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also, I like the. The urge to go and destroy this threat. Doesn't that sound exactly like what a protector would do? Yeah, that's the protector. That's how, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that protector absolutely gets a seat at the table. And we can ask that protector to either sit a little further from us.

[A]

Well, she said she was like, we do want him to retire eventually, but right now you're just trying to make an alliance with him.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And you say, I hear the sound of the leaf blower. It's okay. We're in our house. We're talking to our wife. Everything's okay. Someone's doing yard work. It's not your parents.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And also, saying it's not my parents isn't even quite right. It's not what you thought your parents were when you heard your parents, which was like, Titan.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

It was your reality.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It wasn't my parents. It was. My reality was screaming at itself very Trouble. It's so sometimes, right, I say this. I don't know why I think this is funny, but sometimes during therapy, we just go, the horror. Like Marlon Brando. We just say, the horror.

[B]

The horror.

[A]

I know you're doing.

[B]

You.

[A]

You should just. Whatever you need, like, half a credit to become a trauma therapist. Like, I feel like it's bullshit that if you wanted to become a trauma therapist, like a certified one, you'd have to take courses. Like, what a bunch of nonsense. Well, you always say the same things and you're so. But like, so much of it is honoring. And you've been really good at that. Like, in our relationship, I've been saying, like, we use the Eckhart Tolle language. I'm in my pain body. I'd like to start saying I'm having a trauma response. Sounds.

[B]

I think that's great.

[A]

Yeah. But some language that cues your partner in, clues them in. Yeah, Like, I'm. I'm. I'm freaking out. Is. Is like a. But I never really seem, like, maybe that's my pride that wants to be. Like, I'm not like, sweating or shaking or yelling or freak or. But like, I might as well be. Like, I just completely. It's like a giant flicks me into the horizon.

[B]

It's more of a freeze response for you, which it is for me too. And we are. I have the benefit of having, like, not. I am not close to being an expert, but I have done five years of trauma therapy, like, every week for five years. And my own studies on ifs and, you know, taking like, summits and workshops. And so I've done. I've been pretty hands on in my own trauma therapy for five years. And where that benefits me is not only can I share with you the things that I've learned, but I can recognize in you the things that I've been through.

[A]

I know you've been doing that.

[B]

So you and I are so similar that we do have similar responses. And you're, you know, so I just. But I also want. I'm trying. I said in my therapy yesterday or two days ago, I'm trying to toe the line of not, like, projecting my experience on you or, like, telling you how to do this, but also in. Especially in those activated moments, I. I want to be of service. If it feels good to you to say, like, I think I know what's happening.

[A]

No, I love it every time. There's no, like, my experience is my experience. I don't have that. I love it. In fact, so much of the reason I'm going to therapy is so somebody can just say, like, what's happening? Like, I think about it all the time that she says, you're having a trauma response.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm like, I'll give you more than you're asking for to just keep saying that to me.

[B]

Yeah. Confusion was such a big part for me that I remember sitting in therapy going, wait, I had a trauma. This is ptsd. This is a trauma. And she was like, yes. But it was like I was like. Like a cave person. Like, it was dawning on me for the first time.

[A]

I. And my heart breaks because I think a lot of people. I can't say the majority of people, but let's say a lot of people I know, meaning the types of people I tend to get drawn to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were. Were those people? And. And, you know, I'm 45, and I'm just kind of. You know, it's a pretty big undertaking to be like, oh, I don't remember my childhood. And that's just been, like, a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or meaning, like, I can just feel, like, a Vaseline on the lens going, like, let's not look at that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now we're doing that. And. But the gift of it is to go like, exactly what you just said. And I feel like a caveman, too. I'm like. I like. It's like the movie Wanted, I believe.

[B]

You know that movie James McAvoy.

[A]

Yeah. Where he realizes he's a superhero. He thought he was having panic attacks, but, like, none of it is like, the movie Wanted. Except that, like, is that I'm recognizing. Oh, maybe not everybody just has, you know, maybe 10 times, 15 times a day, a complete. But I really want to be clear about this. You don't even know that it's happening. It's so normal that having a full body lockdown or, like, a strange panic or a strange fantasy again, my protector would often take that energy and be like, and this is what we should do, and we should fucking get. Or some weird fantasy of taking that guy's leaf blower and throwing it in a pool. I just made that one up. I didn't really have that one. Any. Who's a woozle? It's just, like, really interesting. This is really interesting. Interesting stuff. I hope it's helpful to people.

[B]

I hope so, too. And I think it's actually the most interesting thing. And I think it's the most important thing that you could be doing. I honestly think it's The Lord's work.

[A]

Well, that's why I mentioned the nicotine thing. I was like, then I go out and I hang out with you and Leela, and I'm there. Meaning we said this last time. It wasn't last week. We took last week off. But, like, it's like, it's not just navel gazing. It's. It's cleaning up for company.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's cleaning up for company. A hundred percent. That's what I was going to say is we, like, especially speaking to the male part of it, which, you know, you just have a different reality in this society than I do. Being a man. And to go into your body and talk to your child self and be embodied and feel your feelings is a. It's a. A revolutionary act for, like, this next generation of men, even, which is, of course, gonna affect the next generation of women. And obviously there's more genders than that. But I just am like, it is. Can you imagine if your dad did that, how that would make, like, you feel? And Leela is going to have a dad who was brave enough to do this work and does change. Like, it. It's. I feel like trauma therapists, and this is a way that I am not a trauma therapist, are so careful to say, like, one day you will feel free from this because, you know, they don't know how that person's journey is going to go. And the healing is not linear. It's not this perfect story of, like, I just get better and better and better and better. Though there will feel like there are moments where you have stepped backwards and you're wrestling with it and you're living in it, and you're still.

[A]

That's what we're talking about is like, much of it has been like, why am I doing this?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's really what I'd like to share is the feeling of. Or. Or the reality of progress actually feels like, what. Sometimes my protecting voice will be like, like, what are you doing? This is going to destroy you.

[B]

That.

[A]

Don't you realize what I've been doing? You're. I'm not trying to be funny. It's like, you're going to defund the protector.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that really what you want to do?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You're marching to defund me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, again, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm not bringing politics into this. I'm just saying I keep you safe. And you're. And you're really, really. All right, let's see what comes through the door and I, I haven't in this regulated moment I'm like, well that's silly. I'm a grown man and everything's okay. Like I'm resourced and there are people that love me and I'm capable and all this stuff. But like most of this work I've been going like this is a mistake. I'm going to be broken and I'm not going to be able to do what I. Oh, this will be real cute when I can't do stand up step because I'm up.

[B]

This is exactly. That's ex. That's right on cue. A hundred percent. Everybody I know who is embarked on this work has had that voice it especially in the beginning and thank you protector. You are doing exactly what you needed to do at some point in your life. That protector was correct in saying this will destroy you because you are a child who was not resourced and not in a safe environment. Thank you protector. I am a 45 year old man here. I got myself out of that situation. I've built an incredibly beautiful life where I have teachers and friends and people who know and love the real me. I have spent these 45 years gathering and assembling a team and tools and we are ready to go in the forest. And I appreciate you and you will always be a part of me. I'm not going to annihilate you. I'm just gonna take the microphone for a bit and I'm gonna give it to the other parts.

[A]

Just you saying that is so nice. I had that today. I, I find that like with work, work money anxiety. Because we've talked about how things are slow in Hollywood right now. There's like a strike, a union strike looming and not a lot is happening, blah, blah. And I think show business and success specifically have become like my new parents. And like when that starts to feel unstable, it triggers a similar feeling that makes perfect. So it's not just money and it's not just. Again I alluded to this earlier but I was like, oh, no wonder so many traumatized people are drawn to show business. There's so much control and there's so much. You know, I was saying, I was like, I've always thought that it was like kind of embarrassing that I wanted to be on a set where someone would get you a cup of coffee. By the way, that's not an ego trip. There's something nourishing and nourishing nurturing about someone whose job it is to get everyone on set of coffee. That is sort of like, look, there's a coffee person and there's a food truck at lunch. And whether it doesn't have to be show business, but show business, it certainly can be an orgy of that type of, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay. And these fragile performing egos that are drawn to that. Because I was talking about. I was like, somebody that we know that's a big actor. It's been having a really hard time lately the past couple months because nothing's really being made right now. And I was like, why that person has $20 million? I don't understand. Because. Because their. Their new source. And I'm not feeling great about this, but, like, I get so much. Something I want to work on, but, like, it's just what it is. So much of my identity and so much of my security is just like that email. An email that's a job or an email that's a sponsor, an email that's a whatever. And I get it. And I'm just like, everything's right in the exact same way. Exact same way that if I text my mom or my dad and they reply something positive, kind. And even I resent that. It makes me feel so good. I hate that it makes me feel so good.

[B]

Yeah, I experienced because it puts my.

[A]

Neck on the block. I'm like, it could have been bad, and that could have drained me. It would have killed me.

[B]

This is why parts work is so important. I was just talking to a friend last night who said, like, ifs saved her marriage.

[A]

Internal family systems.

[B]

Yeah, internal family systems saved her marriage. But you can say, like, my child self really liked getting that validation from my parents just now. Even if it's an email, actually, because that's basically what you were saying. The replacement is the same feeling when you get the email.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You know, my child's help. Are you kidding me? He's out there reading the making of Terminator 2 and obsessing on what a film set is. And. And it's really emotional stuff. All this stuff is very emotional.

[B]

And I keep. Of course it is. It's the most important personal thing. And I keep thinking of the little boy giggling on the recording with your brother. Like, that's who we're doing all of this for. He couldn't have it done then. But you are a very strong adult, and you can do it for him now. And we're doing it for Leela, and we're doing it for you. Adult you. I mean, every part of you, you know, and it takes. I think it's the most courageous thing a person can do. I really, really do. And you are going in, and even when you don't want to be there, you have. It's like the nicotine thing, that muscle that you have where you're like, trust the me that quit nicotine.

[A]

Yeah, well, I'm good at that.

[B]

That's what.

[A]

That's why I've never gotten back in a relationship. I'm like, just trust the person that left. He lost sleep to break up with that person. And you're gonna go back.

[B]

Yeah. And when you get to. When that protector starts saying, like, what are you gonna do? This is gonna destroy you, and you won't be able to make money. And you will go, like, let's just trust.

[A]

I had that today, and it was a beautiful. Again, all of this stuff sounds so egocentric, but. But it's not. It's health. There's a healthy. Like, what are you, nuts? I forget who it was. I wish I could remember, but somebody at some point in my adult life said to me, like, I was like, what if standup went away or something? And they were like, you were resourceful and creative, and you came up with, I'll do standup. And you're resourceful and you're creative, and you would come up with something else.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I'm not worried about stand up going away. That's not literally the concern, but it's just like, what if mom and dad blow up the world?

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

And, yeah, you bring Leela into it.

[B]

It's that kind of fierce love that will get you through it. And I want to say I. You. You saying, like, what if this destroys me and I can't function or whatever. I vividly remember one of my lowest points. It was during the pandemic. It was the winter. It was, like, December 2020, and I was falling deep back into, like, a. What I call a depressive episode. But now I know is a. Was a trauma response. And I logged onto Zoom, saw my therapist, and fell apart and. And just said, like, I am trying so hard to keep it together. I'm trying so hard not to fall apart. And she just went, oh, it's okay to fall apart. And I just remember the feeling my body being like, what? No, it's not. I can't. I have a child. I have a partner. I have people I have to show up for. I have to, like, report for duty and, like. But the compassion and the, like, confidence that she had in me That I could fall apart and it wouldn't annihilate me.

[A]

That's me, but all I needed, but I have to pay the bills. Yeah, that's. That's. It comes out in that way.

[B]

Right. And I had it with. I am somebody's mother. I. I'm just saying, no matter what you have, there will be a reason that that protector will say, you can't fall apart.

[A]

Heart. Yeah.

[B]

And. And so it is. It's trusting it. And this is what Jennifer, my therapist, says over and over and over. If she had, like, a motto, it would be this. Trust your equipment, meaning your body actually does know how to process this. We just have to not get in the way and trust the equipment. And that only comes. And I can attest to this from practice, this of being disregulated, trusting your equipment and then regulating. The more you regulate from a dysregulated state, the more you will absolutely trust it. You'll be like, I know. I've been here before, and I regulated.

[A]

That's funny, because when I asked at the Rupert Spiro retreat, I asked him about hell. Classic me. I was like, how do we know that this. We can trust this consciousness, that it doesn't want to play wicked games with us. Us? And he said, just explore the nature of awareness in as many different situations as you can. And I've been doing it. When I'm, like, upset, I take a moment and go, like, but is the knowing that knows the upset? Is it trustworthy? Is it, like, clear and spacious and peaceful and it always is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like this. Like, now I. Sometimes when I'm upset, I get excited to go. There's something I do. I go like, oh, yeah. It's like a room that's on fire. But it goes like. Is the space in the room on fire?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or is it just holding a fire?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, oh, the space is still clean, clear, and under control.

[B]

I'm so excited for you to get into. Well, first of all, there is a. That's a part in ifs, I think. I can't remember if it's called the Wise Healer in that. Or. There's another guy, Dan Siegel, who I. I want to introduce you to his work because he does the overlap of, like, trauma work and spiritual work, and one of them calls it the Wise Healer there. It's also, like, maybe sometimes called, like, the True self or the. It's. But it's pure awareness and it. Both of those practices, Dan Siegel's work and internal family Systems has the hub being your true self, and they're the ones that are facilitate. That is facilitating all of this. So it is a practice. That's why trauma healing as a spiritual practice is. Has been the most effective for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like not using spirituality to heal my trauma.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But. But healing my trauma and then identifying with the part of me that is seeing the feelings come up and out, that is talking to all of the parts and coordinating that. Like what part of me is doing that? My pure awareness, my truest self. And it's able to do that because it's always regulated.

[A]

Yeah. I love that.

[B]

I'm excited for you. This is a really, really important and good journey. You're important and I'm proud of you.

[A]

I'm good. All right. I. I really appreciate that. I heard that this isn't. I hope this isn't too long.

[B]

This is another reading.

[A]

It's not long. It's one page and it's amazing. I don't know how much we went in a different direction, but I still think this is gold. So John Aston is another non dual teacher that I found from my friend Tatiana. I just worried, what if her name isn't Tatiana?

[B]

It is Tatiana.

[A]

I know, but I just got panicked. It is Tatiana. So anyway, John Aston, I love him. He's on YouTube. He's. He's wonderful. And he wrote this book called this Extraordinary Moment. And this is something. He's also a psychologist, I think. Yeah, he's a clinical psychologist. So anyway, this is called cognitive fusion. You'll see how this is applies to what we were talking about earlier and maybe what we were just talking about. Cognitive fusion, an emerging construct in psychology, refers to the belief that our thoughts about whatever is being experienced are essentially equivalent to that experience. For example, let's say I have a friend named Dave. To the extent I am fused with my thoughts about him, I will imagine Dave is who I think he is, and in doing so, fail to appreciate that my thoughts about him are just the head that thoughts. In short, through the mechanism of cognitive fusion, I will end up mistaking my mental interpretations of Dave for Dave himself. Practically speaking, I'll relate to my friend not as he actually is, but based on who I imagine him to be, according to my mental caricature of him. When we are cognitive, cognitively fused, which we tend to be a great deal of the time, without even realizing it, we fail to recognize that there are two distinct experimental realms. I'm sorry, experiential. The actuality of whatever person, place or thing is being experienced, and two, the conceptualization or interpretation of that actuality. Cognitive diffusion entails recognizing that our thoughts about whatever is happening are not the same as the experience itself, because those thoughts represent a gross oversimplification of whatever is occurring experientially. Just as my ideas about a person like Dave could never capture that person's complex, multi dimensional nature. Dave is a vast ocean of qualities and characteristics. And the notion that my ideas about him accurately represent the entirety of Dave is tantamount to taking a thimble full of water and imagining I've somehow captured the whole of the sea. It goes on like that. I think that is so interesting. But he actually says, jumping ahead a little bit. He says, in many traditions we're told that our problem is a lack of focus, so they prescribe meditation to learn how to focus. And he is actually. I think the problem of cognitive fusion is not one of too little focus, but actually rooted in excessive focus. For example, in any moment you find yourself seemingly caught up, up in some torrent of thinking or worrying. There are untold numbers of other phenomena occurring. Flickers of energy, washes of sound, sparkles of color and light, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with those mental narratives.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Isn't that good?

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

And sorry, I'm glad I went on. Sometimes when I'm reading, I'm like, this is boring. I'm boring everybody.

[B]

No, I loved that.

[A]

I jumped a little.

[B]

All of it was beautiful.

[A]

Isn't that great? And so let me. I'll just finish it. It sounds. Sounds like you're lit up. And so one of the keys to freeing yourself from cognitive fusion is to see that the narratives and interpretations about what is happening are infinitesimally small compared to the vastness of experience itself. By feeling the ways in which direct experience is inconceivably subtler, more complex and multidimensional than your ideas about it, you begin to uncover a profound depth and richness in everything that is encountered.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Hot. Hot off the press, hot off the John Astin, this extraordinary moment. Check it out.

[B]

I'm. This will be quick, but it just. It's almost a synchronicity because my. My other friend who said internal family systems saved your marriage. Last night she was sharing a. A method that her therapist used with it where. And I. And this isn't internal family systems necessarily, I don't think. But. But she went back to a. She described it like being in like a library with all these files. And some of the files are Glowing red hot. And she would go and pick one up, and then it would be like a memory. And she went back to this memory of having C. Diff, which is like a breastfeeding infection, like a mammary gland. It's like very painful, makes you really sick. And on top of being postpartum and like. Like in Covid. And it was like a trauma. And so she went back to the memory of being on her hands and knees in the bathroom. And the tunnel vision of seeing the bath mat and just sobbing and thinking, this will destroy me. I'll never recover from this. And the therapist guided her in. Into going, okay, what else is in the bathroom? And she was like, actually, I had the. That was when I had, like the Star wars wallpaper. And I did have twinkle lights around. And I remember this apricot soap that I had at the time. And I remember even in the midst of it thinking, like, I'm really glad I have a nice sweet smelling soap. And, like, seeing the bigger picture all around, that's like going. You know, like.

[A]

So that just made me think of that. No, I love that.

[B]

The tunnel vision that we get, the hyper focus, especially when we're dysregulated. That's why people. I think it's actually a beautiful thing when people often share about, like, getting really bad news. Getting, you know, finding out that a loved one died. You know, they always go. And I remember seeing, like, the steam from the teacup. It's like this hyper focus. And so the practice of going back to a memory, even and going, like, what else was happening? To remember the bigger reality. That's why, like, I love Mary Oliver. Poems that are like, Meanwhile the.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the geese are flying or like the ocean is. It's like. It's such comfort to go. Right.

[A]

No, that's exactly right. Oh, we should. You can't.

[B]

Read wild.

[A]

We don't have to read the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah, let's read it. There's a. I mean, everybody wants to hear this on. Tell me your despair. Yeah, well, it's so short.

[A]

You read it.

[B]

Just read the whole thing.

[A]

You read it.

[B]

All right, and we'll end on this. Unless you had something. Okay. Wild Geese by M. No, you do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your hand, on your. Oh, I blew it already. Okay. Wild geese or Mary Oliver take two. You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body. Love what it loves. Tell me about despair. Yours, and I will tell you mine. Meanwhile, the world goes on. Meanwhile, the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain are moving across the landscapes, over the prairies and the deep trees, the mountains and the rivers. Meanwhile, the wild geese, high in the clean blue air, are heading home again. Whoever you are, no matter how lonely the world offers itself to, your imagination calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting, over and over, announcing your place in the family of things.

[A]

It's beautiful. It's every time.

[B]

It's every time.

[A]

Richard Rohr, before he reads it, points out that. I think it's the Celts, the Celtic. One of the Celtic images of God with a wild goose. And he's like, how different from our understanding, a wild goose.

[B]

Honk.

[A]

Beautiful ghost. Honk. Oh, my God. You are divinity itself.

[B]

All right. Well, you really went on a wild ride with us this time, you guys. From sex to trauma.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everything in between.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

All right. Go ahead and keep it crispy.

[A]

It.