We Made It Weird #189

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Made It Weird #189"

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes (8/30/2024)
Host: Pete Holmes | Co-host: Valerie

---

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the themes of parenting, childhood memories, trauma, emotional resilience, and the transformative power of both difficult and joyful experiences. Pete Holmes and Valerie share candidly about their family life, particularly their daughter's first Little League practice, and reflect on how their own childhoods inform their approaches to parenting. The episode also journeys into philosophical territory, discussing the nature of experience, forgiveness, and consciousness, including Pete's recent ketamine experience. The conversation features both humorous moments and poignant emotional insights, maintaining the podcast's trademark blend of weirdness and vulnerability.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Mood: Valerie's Preoccupation

• Valerie admits feeling "dysregulated" and preoccupied as the episode begins, highlighting the episode's focus on authenticity about feelings rather than forced enthusiasm.
• Quote (05:31):
  • Valerie: "My body is a little dysregulated, and it kind of feels, like, absurd right now to do a podcast."
  • Pete: "Specifically the Friday episodes, it's how do we feel? And how do we get any sort of agency over how we feel?"

---

2. Parenthood as Emotional Reenactment and Healing

The Holmes' daughter, Leela, starts Little League – instantly triggering childhood sports anxieties for both parents.

Navigating Parental Projections (07:19–17:00)

• Pete reflects on how his own childhood traumas around sports—and fears of not fitting in—are re-triggered by watching Leela at her first Little League practice.
• Valerie shares similar anxieties from her PE memories, but notes a desire to help Leela develop resilience through manageable discomforts.

Quote (13:58, Pete):

"The trauma is responding to the present as if it's the past."

Quote (15:21, Valerie):

"There’s a lot of experiences that are hard that I want her to experience through this. But being, like, screamed at for not being good at a sport is one that I— I don’t think has any benefit."

The Beauty of Losing & Resilience (19:03–23:37)

• Leela suggests "Wild Cactuses" as the team name, but she's the only one to vote for it; everyone else chooses "Lizard Kings."
• The disappointment is visible and heart-wrenching, but both parents agree that such losses are valuable character-building moments.
• Leela stages a classic "Charlie Brown" hat stomp, embodying baseball movie tropes (23:16).

Quote (22:58, Valerie):

"That being the last moment, the way that she responded to it was like, oh, this is the whole thing. This is why this kid has to do Little League."

---

3. Childhood Trauma, Baseball, and Identity

How formative experiences linger—and how parents can both recognize and repair old wounds.

(24:10–37:58)

• Pete recounts his own Little League anxieties: lack of skill, feelings of being unprepared, and the pain of isolation ("I got rides home from the coach. No one was there.").
• Valerie identifies the lesson Leela is learning: "people are just people, they shouldn't make you nervous," a realization she came to only in her 30s.

Quote (34:06, Valerie):

"Once you learn that, it cracks open the whole world for you."

• Both discuss the divide between "team people" and "lone artists," observing that introverted activities (magic, drawing, comedy) become a refuge for those who don’t fit into typical team molds.

Quote (36:42, Pete):

"The things I like to do are things you can get good at privately. And I really think that’s the line in the sand between so many things that are sporty and so many things that are artsy."

---

4. Snowmen, Vulnerability, and Approval

Metaphor of the snowman as a stand-in for performing in solitude, seeking approval safely.

(37:58–42:14)

• Pete, inspired by "The Velveteen Rabbit" movie, describes how he'd rather make a snowman alone and have others come to him, than risk approaching and being rejected by a group.
• This becomes a metaphor for his stand-up career and creative life: "Come Saturday, this weekend, I'll be in Pittsburgh and here's my snowman." (42:06)

Quote (41:07, Pete):

"At least you can say, like, well, I didn’t even make it for you. You’re the weirdo that came over here. Just made a snowman. Which, of course, is nonsense. You know you made it because you hope they liked it."

---

5. Happy Memories and the Feeling of Belonging

(52:11–57:32)

• Valerie and Pete share their happiest childhood memories—unexpected snow days (Valerie) and dancing in the rain in swimsuits en route to a pool (Pete).
• These stories become allegories for acceptance and authenticity—"It's okay to be wet; you're in your bathing suit. There is no test." (56:51)
• Pete likens this to spiritual acceptance, referencing Seinfeld: "It's not the movie, it's going to the movies." The magic is in anticipation and being "already accepted" (56:51).

---

6. Ketamine, Consciousness, and the Bliss of Irrelevance

(59:28–70:33)

• Pete recounts his recent ketamine journey, which brought a profound insight into the nature of self, forgiveness, and experience.
• Main revelation: If you remove separation and time, there’s no problem (67:52). All perceived pain springs from illusion of separateness and linear time.
• Valerie and Pete discuss how this experience is not nihilistic; instead, everything is "blissfully irrelevant"—the point is not the movie (life's passing dramas), but the light (awareness/love) projecting it.

Quote (63:08, Pete):

"It’s the good irrelevant meaning… Neal Brennan says: It’s pointless, but it’s not meaningless."

• Valerie riffs on the metaphor, choosing to love the movie (life’s experiences) precisely because it lets her know the “screen” (awareness/divinity) is there (65:06).

---

7. Finishing on Playfulness and Ephemeral Joy

(70:09–70:55)

• Closing on Pete’s ketamine insight: sometimes the best advice is just to “be a bird”—resting in simple awareness.
• The episode ends with playful “bird brain” jokes and "keep it crispy," their signature sign-off.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------| | 05:31 | "My body is a little dysregulated, and it kind of feels, like, absurd right now to do a podcast." | Valerie | | 07:19 | "Parenting is so… But here's something I didn't know, everyone's sort of making it up." | Pete | | 13:58 | "The trauma is responding to the present as if it's the past." | Pete | | 15:21 | "There’s a lot of experiences that are hard that I want her to experience through this. But being, like, screamed at for not being good at a sport is one that I— I don’t think has any benefit." | Valerie | | 22:58 | "That being the last moment, the way that she responded to it was like, oh, this is the whole thing. This is why this kid has to do Little League." | Valerie | | 34:06 | "Once you learn that, it cracks open the whole world for you." | Valerie | | 36:42 | "The things I like to do are things you can get good at privately…" | Pete | | 41:07 | "At least you can say, like, well, I didn’t even make it for you. You’re the weirdo that came over here… Which, of course, is nonsense… You know you made it because you hope they liked it." | Pete | | 56:51 | "It’s okay to be wet. There is no test. It's just another example of like when I've had tastes of… ultimate reality, or you could say God." | Pete | | 63:08 | "It’s the good irrelevant meaning… Neal Brennan says: It’s pointless, but it’s not meaningless." | Pete |

---

Memorable Moments

• Leela’s only vote for "Wild Cactuses" and her hat-stomp (21:27–23:33)
• Pete and Valerie realizing how their own anxieties color perception of Leela’s experience (24:10–29:37)
• "Basketball is the stand-up of sports": the notion that introverted talents are refuges for non-team kids (29:39–30:23)
• "Come Saturday, I'll be in Pittsburgh and here’s my snowman"—Pete’s career as an extension of seeking safe approval (42:06)
• Ketamine-inspired forgiveness insight: "If you remove separation and time, there's no problem." (67:52)
• “Be a bird”: Pete’s advice to rest in present-moment awareness (70:09)

---

Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [05:04–05:54] — Valerie’s mood, honesty about not feeling like podcasting
• [06:51–19:02] — Little League anxieties, projections, and resilience
• [19:03–23:37] — Team names, disappointment, and building character through loss
• [23:39–41:19] — Deeper dives into childhood wounds, parental patterns, and the “snowman” metaphor
• [52:11–57:58] — Favorite childhood memories as portals to healing and spiritual realization
• [59:28–70:33] — Ketamine, consciousness, forgiveness, profundity of irrelevance, and being a “bird brain”
• [70:44–end] — Wrap-up, bird brain jokes, and "keep it crispy"

---

Final Thoughts

This episode is a heartfelt and comedic exploration of the weird intersections between parenthood, childhood wounds, resilience, and the search for meaning. Pete and Valerie model self-awareness, vulnerability, and the courage to gently nudge loved ones and themselves into new, sometimes uncomfortable growth—with plenty of jokes and knowing referrals to the “weirdo” tribe of listeners.

---

Signature Sign-off:
“Go ahead and keep it crispy.”

Transcript

[Valerie]

You made it with. You made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

I know I say this. Oh, we gotta go.

[Valerie]

Yeah, we gotta. We already have to go.

[Pete Holmes]

We have to go. Goodbye. No, we're gonna be here because our past is about to be your future. So the. Okay, forget it. What I'm saying is, I know I say this every week. This is a great episode. I'm in Pittsburgh this weekend. Go to PeterHomes.com, buffalo, Minneapolis, other dates are all on there. PeteHomes.com and if you like the show. Oh, and Largo once a month here in LA. Go to largo-la.com if you're going to be in LA. Those are always incredible. And if you like the show, please try Pete's pick. It's what keeps the show going, pays the staff, all that stuff. Try a pizza pig. These are things I actually like and use. Katie, roll it. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Armor Colostrum. You guys know I'm obsessed with ways to strengthen my immunity as well as my fitness, endurance, my metabolism, as well as my hair and my skin radiance. If only, if only there was one product that tackled all of those things. Well, there is. It's Armor Colostrum. Colostrum is a big topic these days. I keep hearing it coming up. What is it? Colostrum is the first nutrition we receive in life and it cont all of the essential nutrients our bodies need to thrive. Talking about reactivating hair growth and glowing skin. So you feel beautiful, amazing, handsome, gorgeous. Reducing inflammation and puffiness in your face and neck as well as stimulating stem cells to produce collagen and increase elasticity. That alone would be an amazing reason to take Armor Colostrum. But there's more. I'm talking about igniting your metabolism and fortifying gut health so you feel less bloated. That is a huge one for me. In fact, the first change I noticed the first time I took armor was I was like, it seemed to neutralize all the bloat in my gut. Was feeling amazing. It also stabilizes your blood sugar and accelerates fat burning. It also fuels your fitness performance and your recovery. Armor Colostrum is a proprietary concentrate of bovine colostrum that harnesses over 400 living bioactive nutrients that rebuild the barriers of your body and fuel cellular health for for a host of research backed health benefits. It's wholly natural, sustainable and was developed with the highest integrity using grass fed COWs in the US and they guarantee the highest potent potency and bioavailability of any colostrum on the market. For results you can see and actually feel and I can attest to that. And we've worked out a special offer for weirdos. Receive 15 off your first order. Go to tryarmra.com weird or enter weird at checkout for 15% off your your first order. That's T-R-Y-A R M R A.com weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at Tushy Val and I love our Tushy bidet. I don't understand why in 2024 you're still still using toilet paper to clean your butt after a deuce. Think about it. If you had poop on your hand, would you just wipe it with paper and just be like I'm good and go about your day? No, you would power wash it off with high powered water for a real clean that you can feel and feel good about. So just like power blasting dry leaves off your driveway with a high powered hose, a Tushy bidet uses a precise stream of clean water to get your butt tip top. Especially now in the sticky summer season. Triple S you need to get your number two game up with Tushy. Tushy is easy, it's fast and once you try it you will never go back. I I thought it would feel weird or would have a hard time finding the bullseye, but nope. First use bam. A okay, An A in that AOK stands for ass finds a target first try bam. And makes pooping any other way feel primitive, backwards and stone age. This is like a midday shower in five seconds after every poo. Which I'm going to say is the way God intended. They had lots of different kinds. The classic permanent bidet that attaches to your existing toilet, which is what we have. And they have the Tushy Travel, which is amazing. For the first time I've seen a portable travel bidet that travels with you discreetly. Tushy bidets are easy to install. Less than 10 minutes and those 10 minutes will change your life. Get a real clean bottom and help keep away hemorrhoids, UTIs and yeast infections. And step up your butt into the future with a science fiction level of clean. With Tushy, just sit down, relax and turn the knob for a precise stream of fresh water on your butt. So stay fresh all summer long and join the 2 million butts who've already switched to tushy For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet. When you use code weird at checkout, that's 10% off your first [e-mail] weird with promo code weird. H e l l o t u s h y.com with promo code weird. All right, everybody. So glad you're here.

[Valerie]

Valerie, get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

This is interesting because Val really doesn't feel like doing this. So we can. So we can use it.

[Valerie]

Busted.

[Pete Holmes]

Like a good actor. Well, I should say it's not that you don't want to do it, it's that you have other things on your mind.

[Valerie]

Yes. Preoccupied.

[Pete Holmes]

You're preoccupied. And you're feeling a little pushed. Pushed down. Squished.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So that's interesting.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I think so. My body is a little dysregulated, and it kind of feels, like, absurd right now to do a podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. You know, Cowboy, take me away. I'll try. I'll try my best. I have some things to share. You know, Bill Burr does his podcast by himself.

[Valerie]

He's just like, ah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nose paper gets on my fingers flipping through the Globe. I still read the Boston Globe. I want to know what's going on in Rivera. I've lived in California for 30 years. I still keep up with Everett.

[Valerie]

Everett.

[Pete Holmes]

Everett, Massachusetts. Oh, good comedy.

[Valerie]

Thought Everett was a person.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, It's a name.

[Valerie]

Huh.

[Pete Holmes]

So is Revere. I get Paul Revere.

[Valerie]

That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what?

[Valerie]

You know what?

[Pete Holmes]

I was this.

[Valerie]

So is newspaper.

[Pete Holmes]

There you go.

[Valerie]

There you go.

[Pete Holmes]

Your little buns.

[Valerie]

They can do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, I'm tossing the flour on the board. I'm stretching out the dough.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I was gonna say that if this podcast, if there's a through line in this podc.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Specifically the Friday episodes, it's how do we feel?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And how do we get any sort of agency over how we feel?

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'll. Maybe this will help you. I don't know. I'm not here to presume what will or will not help you.

[Valerie]

Thank you very much.

[Pete Holmes]

But I had my therapy this morning.

[Valerie]

Brag.

[Pete Holmes]

Weird. Flex. I. Not only did I do it, but I'm proud of it. Double Flex. Double Flex. It was really interesting. We talked about how troubling it is when Beau barks, and she had the terms for that. So our dog is 111 pounds. HE BARKS like a lion. And the other night, literally last night, Leela, parenting is so.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

But here's something I didn't know everyone's sort of making it up. So I've decided, somewhat arbitrarily, that Leela should eat dinner at the table.

[Valerie]

Like, oh, in this moment.

[Pete Holmes]

In. This is last night.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Because we are trying to get her to sit down. She does that classic kid thing of she, like, takes a bite and then she runs off and then she comes.

[Pete Holmes]

Back, which is great. And there's part of me that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is part of me that's like, that's fine. That's great. Be groovy. And then, you know, we took her to Little League for the first time.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you start to see that, like, all of these impositions you put on your kids are for the world.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If. If she just lived in our Willy Wonka factory.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We could eat on a unicycle. It wouldn't matter. Like, and there's part of you as a parent that sort of pulled to. That you're like, let's never. Not every parent, but certainly us. Let's never do anything.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's eat in the bathtub.

[Valerie]

Right. You just want to preserve their magic.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

Your.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, pretty soon it's going to be all taskmasters and Sats and ERBs and Sabs and HPV. I mean, it's out there.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's out there. But it's like. So I. I'm. I'm realizing in this moment, I'm like, I'm gonna insist very gently, but I'm not gonna give in.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's something I didn't know that parents are doing. They're. They're checking inside.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, is this switch flipped all the way? And you're, like, kind of surprised this switch is flipped all the way. I really think. Because I saw her at Little League, which was a whole ball of watch.

[Valerie]

Yeah. We should definitely talk about that.

[Pete Holmes]

We can. I won't forget this story talking about Bo and therapy, but we took her to Little League, and I haven't had a more palpable we gotta get the fuck outta here feeling ever. Because I was like, we should be in a play.

[Valerie]

Like, I was so working on that, too. I'm trying to get her in a position.

[Pete Holmes]

No, we'll do. And you can do both. There were. There are kids. Like, this is just all my trauma.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're looking at the kids. And I'll start with. With my inter. I'd love to hear yours. I got there, and it seemed like every single kid there was wearing cleats. That's true. Leela's wearing These, like, little rainbow sneakers. These slip on rainbow sneakers. So already I'm feeling this sort of like, oh, I've. I've failed my daughter. She's wearing the wrong shoes. She's never caught a ball wearing a glove.

[Valerie]

Yeah, she just got the glove that day.

[Pete Holmes]

What does that sound?

[Valerie]

It's like a jet.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a jet. Okay. I can't control it.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

And there were kids that were younger than her. I forget that kid's name. But there was one kid, he had the baseball sunglasses. Daniel.

[Valerie]

Daniel. He was a fucking badass.

[Pete Holmes]

He had the eastbound and down sunnies. He was about a foot shorter than Leela. He was a little Sammy Sussex. He's getting grounders. He's thrown like the length of the field. I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

[Valerie]

He's knowing what's going on. Like, he gets past. They're practicing, like outfield stuff. So he plays first base. So everybody's stirring to him. And he knows to like, just go and tag the base.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep, yep. He's tagging up. He's tagging up. He's doing force pop outs. He knows what he's doing. And he's probably. He's five years old.

[Valerie]

He's five years old, but he is tiny.

[Pete Holmes]

But there's his dad, which I was like, respect. I said something to the dad on the way out. I was like, he's so good. That's incredible. And really what I wanted to say was, like, good on you. Like, that's incredible. Like, you've put in all this time. So all. How dare you. All of these feelings. Bell bumped the mic. All of these feelings of like, I'm in little league. I've never really caught a ball. I don't. I'm not wearing the right shoes. And very, very viscerally, like, remembering vivid memories, not vague memories. Vivid memories of being on the field and watching a kid catch a baseball. I remember the dust flew. His name was Keegan. The dust flew off his glove. And that's what I'm noticing, the cinematography. I'm like, oh, this is incredible. What a great shot. That would have been like a movie. But he's just catching it like it's nothing, Taking it out and throwing it back like it's nothing. And I'm just like, oh, I'm under prepared. And now I'm like, I'm about to put my daughter in that situation. And I was playing catch with her. The first thing that happened was there was nobody for her. They partnered up to just sort of Warm up. There are all these things being said, like, warm up. She doesn't know what that means. Run through the bag. Run through the base. What does that mean? Run through?

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You're talking about how you keep running after you touch the. She doesn't even know that you touch the base. Like, we've played little games of baseball and stuff. Anyway, the more interesting thing is my inner reality is, like, alarm bells are going off, and it's like, scoop her up and get her the. Out of there. Like, go make popcorn and watch three Star wars movies in one day. Because that's the kind of kid I was. That's the kind of kid she's gonna be. We don't belong here. Some of the kids, like, I thought, by the way, there's a nice little arc to this story. When I first got there, I was looking at the kids, and they all looked like bullies to me. Of course, that's a projection.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It has nothing to do with anything. But one of the kids looked like a little man. He had a chain. He had a gold chain. He looked like a real ballplayer. I was like, we gotta get the fuck out of here. This kid's gonna fucking kill my daughter. Not anything about her being small or weak, just not knowing. Cause frankly, Lila's a badass.

[Valerie]

Yeah, she was. She's, like, one of the biggest kids on the team.

[Pete Holmes]

So we're throwing, we're throwing, we're throwing. And finally, by the end, to kind of skip to the punchline, and I'd love for you to tell the story about that. Your brother told you. What we're realizing is, like, these traumas that happened, lowercase T. But still, traumas. When I was in Little League had very little to do with Little League necessarily. It was sort of like a sticky place to kind of work out feelings that were happening anyway. Meaning Leela is a secure kid. That's the flex. She's a. She's a happy kid. And 10, 15 minutes later, I pushed past the. Like, get her out of here.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

She was having a great time. Yeah, she's throwing balls. We practiced today. I do have time. That's one of the stories, too, is like, I don't have time to practice baseball with her. I'm like, yes, you do. The trauma is responding to the present as if it's the past.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm resp. And I was going like, I won't have time to be at her games. I won't have time to practice with her. She's going to be humiliated. She's going to be broken, she's going to blame me, which is kind of. That's part of my experience. There was like, you signed me up for this and now you're not here. Like, that was the beginning of the resentment.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And all the kids seemed to know the coach and know how to play. And I was just like, of course I developed an intense personality. I was doing everything I could.

[Valerie]

Yeah, totally. I'm. I. I mean, I. By the time we had gotten to the baseball game, I. Or the baseball practice, I had been, like, primed. So I was nervous to too when I signed her up. And, like, thinking about it all in the weeks leading up, I was like, is this a huge mistake? I have, you know, my wounds, or I just like, my bad memories as a child of, like, being in PE Hating all sports, not understanding the game, but also mostly just not caring. And then boys who were so competitive, as if everything in the world was dependent on winning this kickball game.

[Pete Holmes]

That was already happening, by the way. I started seeing the different types, and there are the kids that are like, they project their embarrassment out and they kind of go, like, you're throwing it too hard. Like, you're throwing bad. And I'm like, this kid's just feeling insecure, just like everybody.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And like. And, you know, those boys, like, screaming at me, the boys that, like, I was on, you know, the ones on my team, like, screaming at me because I was bad at it. And I was just like, God. I said to my brother, because he signed up his daughter, my niece, for fall ball two. And so we were just talking about why we were nervous about it, and I was like, you know, there's a lot of experiences that I. That are hard that I want her to experience through this. But being, like, screamed at for not being good at a sport is one that I. I don't think has any benefit. Like, but maybe, maybe there is that I. I just can't see. So that conversation had really helped me because my brother was also nervous, and we just sort of. He was like, you know, I am projecting my child self onto her. And it was like, certainly for boys in the 80s, I think there was a lot of, like, you, you need to survive in this school, and in order to survive, you have to be good at sports. That's like, everything. Like, even my brother says, my nephew is nine. And she. He's like, you know, he's friends with people just because they're good at throwing a football. Like, that's that is everything for boys, you know, of a certain age. And Leela, that is not a concept that is. She's even remotely familiar with. And I think we can get her through this season without even ever feeling like her worth depends on being good at sports. Well, but I do think I want her. I. The reason I signed her up and the reason I want her to do it is there is like a grit and sort of a roughness that comes with little micro discomforts and challenges.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this goes back to my original thesis. It's not, she can't live in the Garden of Eden. She can't live in our house all the time.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

We kind of wish she could in the Garden.

[Valerie]

We are not good at giving her challenges.

[Pete Holmes]

We're terrible at. So literally, baseball is outsourcing discomfort, manageable levels of discomfort. So at one point, they were voting on a team name. Two points.

[Valerie]

I was going to say this, too, and I.

[Pete Holmes]

The coach. I already think the coach is great. I'm really. I think he's got the perfect temperament for it. And it's already one of those things where I'm like. It's kind of why I think you're. I had the feeling you would be a great director. And I don't feel like I'm necessarily a great director. I can be very like, we need to phrase this perfectly so everyone can understand. Some people are just like. Like the coach.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Directing the film of the baseball game. It's just like. Yeah. And some kids are going to be digging in the dirt, and sometimes they're not going to be listening. And sometimes I'm going to have to say a thousand times, make sure the person's looking before you throw the ball at them. And he just seemed chill.

[Valerie]

I was like, so patient.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Like, that's great.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So this isn't a criticism. He just didn't waste a lot of time. And I do think it would have been a waste trying to perfectly explain every situation. Like, we're voting on a team name. You only get to vote once. That would require squatting down and looking at every kid in the face and going, you can only vote for one of these names, so vote for your favorite. Do you understand it would take 30 minutes to get everyone to understand the I have one vote concept.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So they were like, we're picking a team name. This really brought me back.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. This killed me, too. Remember? Well, you tell the story and then.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember you said, don't think about it later. Yeah.

[Valerie]

I. When we were going to bed. I was like, don't think about Leela raising her hand, being the only one raising her hand for her team name, which was the Wild Cactuses.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, a lot happened. They're going, we need a team name. One of the kids. And by this point, I've now turned. I've. I've now. I love all the kids.

[Valerie]

Right. Because this is the end of the package. And you would want to watch.

[Pete Holmes]

I watch parents volunteering and. And helping.

[Valerie]

Laughing. She's playing. She's. She did also get hit in the.

[Pete Holmes]

Face, and she was able to be.

[Valerie]

Brave, but then she cried. But the boy wearing the chain was the one who threw the ball, and he felt horrible. And he was such a sweet.

[Pete Holmes]

And his mom was like, he got hit in the face recently, too. And I'm like, are we signing our kids up to get hit in the face? And the answer is yes.

[Valerie]

Yeah, we are.

[Pete Holmes]

It's crazy. Little leagues.

[Valerie]

Little baby fight.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, please hit my. My child in the face with a baseball. I'll pay you. That's what it is. So they're going, I really related to this. They go, okay, we're going to come up with a name. And when something creative was, you know, pitched, I was like, two things. I want to be picked. That's number one and two. I want it to be funny.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And somebody said, the Lizard King. The Lizard Kings. Which I was like, that's a great name.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then once Leela kind of figured out what was going on, she had her hand up, she said, the Wild Cactuses. The coach goes, wild cats. Like, he misheard her. And I was like, wildcats has a chance of. Of winning.

[Valerie]

Winning. Like, that's a change it now.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I was. I was like, baby, say yes. Say Wildcats. Like, I really wanted to be that parent. And she said, no wild cactuses. He was like, okay, Wild cactuses. Cacti. Wild cactuses. All right. And then when they voted, it was. It was kind of a landslide. Everybody voted for Lizard Kings.

[Valerie]

Which is the best one?

[Pete Holmes]

Which was the best one. I also don't think anyone knew what the fuck was going on.

[Valerie]

Yeah, they were. People were voting more than once. People were, you know, but if you're.

[Pete Holmes]

Like me, it'll drive you crazy.

[Valerie]

The heartbreaking moment, and it really is like, don't think about it. Is that he's like, okay, and everyone for Wild Cactuses.

[Pete Holmes]

And shoots up.

[Valerie]

So proud. Slowly looking around, realizing that no one is boning it kills me. Ah, it's so painful.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're Paying for that too.

[Valerie]

But that is exactly what she needs. She's an only child. She is very privileged, living a very privileged, privileged life. She has none of that.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Valerie]

And. And she. And the thing is, she had said.

[Pete Holmes]

That in our house, I would print like, silk screened, wild cactus T shirts and she would have lost interest by the time they were dry.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It would have been nothing. It's just do like we are a candy factory.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's almost lost its meaning, our sweetness. So it's like.

[Valerie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

You. You lost.

[Valerie]

I know. And the thing. And we both had the same instinct, you know, you.

[Pete Holmes]

You didn't win.

[Valerie]

We saw her have sexy lost. Yeah, she lost.

[Pete Holmes]

She didn't lose. She just didn't win.

[Valerie]

We had, you know, throughout the course of watching this, this practice, just seeing her struggle, seeing her not catch, seeing her get frustrated, seeing her struggle, putting the glove on, like, all these little things were so hard, but it was also, like, good. Like, we were feeling really good about the practice and she was having fun and she's responding to it. And that being the last moment, the way that she responded to it was like, oh, this is the whole thing. This is why this kid has to do little League.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because she. And I also find this so darling, because I know she saw this on some movie and she just couldn't wait for the opportunity to do it. But after they were like, all right, lizard kings it is. She took off her baseball hat, threw it in the dirt and stomped on it.

[Pete Holmes]

Trey Charlie Brown.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't see her do that.

[Valerie]

And I was like, okay, Lee, let's. You know, I know you're disappointed, but. Yeah, you know, let's not kiss her. Loser. But I also know that she, like, couldn't wait. Like, to her, that is baseball. You know, like, you throw your hat down.

[Pete Holmes]

And she got over it. By the time we were in the car, she was pretty. She said, no one pick my name. But.

[Valerie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

We can't. We can't do it. But again, talking about trauma. And this takes us to Beau. And my therapy is I'm really in doing this trauma work, noticing when I'm not seeing reality. It's like a type of blindness. Were at a baseball game. I. I know you could recut this movie and show all the kids that are fumbling that they are clearly new, that they don't know what they're doing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, but I'm focusing on the two or three kids that are great. I'm like, we're gonna be humiliated. Leela's gonna be human, but it's like this. It's like the upside down, where it's like being underwater. It's like. It's like a weird dream, and there's this huge imposition of a past feeling filtering between you and reality, and you can't even trust yourself.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm so glad you were there. Who knew that something as simple as taking your kid to their first Little League practice could be so fraught?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I was like, she couldn't catch the ball. I couldn't get her to. I couldn't throw it in a way that she could catch it. When you're playing catch with a kid that age, you're really just. It's like playing darts.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Trying to get a bullseye.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Or like basketball.

[Pete Holmes]

Like basketball. That's probably how someone invented basketball. They're like, you know when you're playing catch with a kid and you have to just.

[Valerie]

And they're not gonna move, so it's just not a moving target.

[Pete Holmes]

It was intense.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I. You know, there have been plenty of times where you had to be the one that was staying anchored in reality while I sort of lost my way. Namely, almost every time Leela gets sick, I can. I instantly lose sight of what is real. And I get.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly what it was. I went into crisis mode, and I went over to you, and I was like, I can't do this, or something like that.

[Valerie]

And it was easy for me, because I just did for you. I. It was like I was the one. At that point, I had gotten to myself, to a point where I was like, I'm gonna hold out hope that, yes, this is hard, but we're. It's going to be worth it. And you're. It's good that it's hard. It's a good kind of hard. And I just applied that to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Where I was like, you are experiencing what Leila's experiencing now, but I think if we can just stay with it, we. And I had all the same things. I honestly was like, I went from being, like, telling her, you know, I'm gonna sign you up. You have to do the whole season. And she said, but when we try new things, we do it once, and if we don't want to go back, we don't have to. And I was like, yeah, but that's not really how this works. Like, you are joining a team, so you have to stick with it, because that's the main thing. I'm wanting her to learn from this. And. And I will say, when she didn't have a partner and we were having a rough beginning, I went, all right, I'll let her give up after this one if I. If she wants to.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Valerie]

So I was struggling with it too, but I just had enough of me to be like, let's just wait and see. And both you and Leila. By the middle of it, I relaxed. We were both having a great time. And seeing that, it was. It was really good. A good thing.

[Pete Holmes]

That's such a key to any relationship. But certainly a romantic partnership is, like, when I'm absolutely. Like, we don't have the exact same triggers.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you could understand that I was being triggered.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't even consider that it might be triggering. I just was like, I'm sure the first thing they'll do is be like, this is a baseball.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But instead, they just started playing baseball.

[Valerie]

I was like, that was the second practice. We had missed the first practice. So they. They. I don't think they said, this is a baseball. But also a lot of those kids have been playing baseball. They started t ball when they were like, three or four.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, Andrew.

[Valerie]

Andrew.

[Pete Holmes]

If that is Andrew.

[Valerie]

Jasper. Daniel.

[Pete Holmes]

Daniel.

[Valerie]

We're just.

[Pete Holmes]

He had the eastbound and down sunglasses.

[Valerie]

He's been. Baseball is his life.

[Pete Holmes]

That kid had the stance.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're batting today. Where's that ball gonna go?

[Valerie]

Oh, my gosh. I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And I really. I was like. So much came up where I was, like, life isn't really that complicated. We're all looking for acceptance or love or affection or power or influence or control. And when I went into sports, I just realized I was like, there's nothing here. Like, I didn't. I'm not being a victim, and I'm. My parents did the best they could, but I didn't feel like I'm. There's something so fraught. I know I keep saying fraught, but, like, heavy and sad about being bad at baseball because it takes another person to play catch with or to pitch to you. Like, it's a really, like, nurtured sport. I. I suppose you could say so as football. Basketball always seemed like you could just go and shoot baskets by yourself. It was like the lonely person's sport.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Pete Holmes]

And you could even get good ish at your shots and stuff, just playing by yourself. But like, that. The shot of the young boy in the backyard with no dad. Like, what does he do? He just throws it up in the air. Like, it's sad. So when you saw it was. And now that I'm realizing as a dad, you're so invested in looking involved, especially nowadays. But, like, being a kid and being like, I did get rides home from the coach. You know what I mean? Like, no one was there. And realizing very quickly, like, this isn't paying out, and then realizing what did pay out and then putting all my effort into that.

[Valerie]

That is really smart. Go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

No, please.

[Valerie]

I just think that that was a real glimpse into your makeup. Like, it is like basketball is the standup of sports in a way, because you really can just do Michael Jordan.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna get to practice early. Well, go to baseball practice early and diddle your own butthole. Like, there's nothing to do. There's nothing to do. I know there are pitching machines and you can throw the ball and hit it, but I'm just saying, like, you can really get a good practice in by yourself at basketball.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's slam dunk contests. I know there's home run. It's not a perfect point, but I've always related more. I'm obsessed. Not entirely obsessed, but very interested in Michael Jordan. I've never really been interested in a baseball player because it hurts my heart.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Oh, getting rid us home from the coach.

[Pete Holmes]

I got rides home from the coach.

[Valerie]

Man, that just breaks my heart too. So, yeah, of course it was. It actually at this moment seems so obvious. We should have been preparing you for her to do baseball.

[Pete Holmes]

But can I tell you what we did today? We taped. We put a little blue baseball, a home plate taped to the ground just in our living room. And I was teaching Leela some of the things I knew. Like, you square your feet up to the plate, like you can the edges of the whatever, and then you put your bat. You kind of like, sire the plate. Like you tap the corner. That's how you know how far you are. So these things I knew, I got her in her stance, which again, we've done before. We've played baseball before. But I really am like, I think she's good at hitting. I think she needs to learn catching. She's pretty good at throwing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we did it for a while. And I was like, you know, this is deeply emotional. It's fraught even. I was throwing her these balls and she was hitting them, and I was being really gentle with my correction and she was receiving it. You know, Leela hates when you tell her how to do something. But with this, I was like, baby, I'm not being mean. I'm just trying to help you hit the ball. But she also is naturally good at it. And I was seeing what it was doing for her focus and her confidence and all this stuff. I was like, all of this sort of nerd rage that I have against sports. And this is why I'm quick to go to the jealousy interpretation. When somebody is, like, hating on. On me about something, I'm like, it's usually a projected. Like, I wish. You know, I wish someone was playing catch with me.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we bought the equipment. I always remember buying the equipment was the most fun part. But I never broke in a glove. I never had a glove that was broken.

[Valerie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

It never got broken.

[Valerie]

There's just so many sad baseball signals.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. Just like a brand new glove. And I love the uniform.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I loved not being the worst. Thank God there was a kid on my team that was bad. And I also. I know I remember his name. And I also remember having some delusion that I was very good at hitting because I did have a natural swing. I didn't do well, but I thought I might. And that kind of, like, kept me going.

[Valerie]

Yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, maybe I'm gonna hit a home run. I didn't.

[Valerie]

But even if she. If she doesn't do well, like, if she really sticks with this and likes parts of it and, you know, tries hard and get comes to the conclusion, like, this just isn't my game, like, that is a win, because it's just helping her shape. Like, I think that's one of our jobs as parents, is to expose her to as many things as we can and then let her decide what she is and what she isn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But it's not, like, a loss. If we let her do this and then she comes to the conclusion that she hates it, it's like, great, all right. But on to the next thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. But I don't want it to be because of some failure on my part or.

[Valerie]

Right. And I just don't want it to be like, I want her. I. And what I said in the middle of the practice was I was like, she's learning the most important thing, which is people are just people. They shouldn't make you nervous. Which is a Regina Spector lyric.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But that is, like, something that I didn't realize until, you know, my 30s, I feel like.

[Pete Holmes]

And, oh, no, I'm still trying to figure that out.

[Valerie]

Once you learn that, it cracks open the whole world for you. Like, I wasn't. I wouldn't do things in my adolescence, in my young Adulthood because I was just like afraid to make the phone call and talk to the person who picks up the phone, you know, like, oh my gosh. Just terrified to try things.

[Pete Holmes]

Completely relate.

[Valerie]

So I think her just going into scenarios more. The more she goes into scenarios where she doesn't know anybody, then before she knows it, she has a buddy and she's talking to the coaches and she's got. I think that's just so beneficial in that too. Also, I was going to say when she and I were playing catch yesterday, I told you this, but like, so she's putting the glove the way it's supposed to be, which is sort of like a cup, you know, like her palms up. And then when I throw it to her, she flips her hand all the way like a, like a backwards to a backwards catch. And I showed her. I was like, look baby, the. The glove is the same. It's. It's a cup either way you do it. So there's no point in twisting your whole arm. It makes it harder to catch it. And then she like. But that's become like such a reflex now. So she just kept doing it and we were like dying laughing.

[Pete Holmes]

She was?

[Valerie]

Yes. Like she would just do it and like at. In. And even like it would seem like she wasn't going to do it and at the last minute she would do it and we would just laugh. And I was like, there's something holy about this. Or at least wholesome about just like.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, isn't. I mean wholesome and whole. It's all this.

[Valerie]

It's all. It just felt like where it was. It was like seeing the whole picture in that laugh where we're like, this is. You try trying to be better at something and you also laughing at yourself when you're not like not taking it.

[Pete Holmes]

Too seriously and you being there.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then that's what I mean is like these things can be these wonderful resilience builders and they can also be sort of exposing of like emotional holes.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And where you're not resourced as. As a child. And then you're like, oh fuck, Timmy Greenspan's dad is here every game sort of thing.

[Valerie]

And that's right. And then she is Timmy Greenspan. And I think that that can be a real opportunity to reparent your little baseball player in there.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally. One final thought about this is that like, I think it has a lot to. With like teams and even though I used to enjoy being on an improv team, but I've never really been a huge team Person.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And again, it goes back to that thing. Like, the things I like to do are things you can get good at privately. And I really think that's the line in the sand between so many things that are sporty and so many things that are artsy. Meaning, like magic. You can practice magic alone. Magic is a kid who didn't either want to or didn't have someone to play catch with. And either of those are valid. There could have been a dad. It's even just as much of a cliche that there was a dad that was like, let's throw the pig skin. And you. And you have a wand that turns into flowers like that. So it's not always negligence or a lack, but like, we. It's this introverted sort of activity. Like, I can do this. Obviously, writing is a very. Like, I can do this alone. And then there's some people, and I guess we call them extroverts that come to life around others, and they. And they want to shine in that way. So I was watching this movie that I had never seen with Leela this morning called the Velveteen Rabbit. Obviously, I've read the book. I hadn't seen the movie, but there's this child, and he's alone. He's in a new town, and he looks through the bushes and he sees kids playing snowballs. They're throwing snowballs at each other.

[Valerie]

Playing snowball.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they're playing snowballs. This is when you realize I'm from Saturn and they're, you know, playing snowballs. And then he is very sweet. And the kid's a good actor, too. He's going like. He's practicing, like, hello, I'm Nathan.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Would you like to play with me? Hi, I'm Nathan. Would you like to play? And then he doesn't approach them, I'm assuming name Nathan. I don't know.

[Valerie]

Okay. Because that's a synchronicity. Because I was spelling my last name to somebody on the phone, and I was like, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

C H A, N, as in Nathan.

[Pete Holmes]

Today.

[Valerie]

It was the only thing I could think of. Yeah. Today. Okay, I'm sorry. Please continue.

[Pete Holmes]

So he turns around and then starts making a snowman. And I was like, oh, my God. It really felt like a revelation. I was like, that's it?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to risk being rejected by the happy snowball kids. I don't want to go up, have them size me up. I can't throw. My snowballs are bad. They're packed poorly. I'm confused as to who's on my team. I'm too big to hide behind the same. This is a sad episode. Behind the same, like, fort as them. I fart. My snow pants are the wrong brand. It's just like all of the. It seems all of that. None of that is really always true.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It could be true, but it could also not be true.

[Valerie]

But again, like, boy, Boston 80s.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You're feeling like. I'm also seeing a lot of that in my brother and my friends is we were just sort of the kids that were like, what if they do this and this and this? It's a type of creativity, actually. Anxiety is a. Is a type. It's an offshoot of creativity. Like, here's a million things that could go wrong. And that's how you write the movie. The day after tomorrow. You're just like. And then there's a tidal wave, and then the power goes out. It's just anxiety turned into a movie. So anyway, he starts making the snowman. And the revelation was I was like, oh, my God, I'm still doing this. Which is. It's too vulnerable to approach people. So I'd rather make a snowman. And then they'll approach me. And the feeling is, I won't be alone if I make the best snowman.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In fact, I'll draw a crowd. And now there'll be people who come because they know I'm worthy. They saw I was worthy from a distance. And then they enter in already believing that I'm worthy because they came to see my snowman. So I don't have to worry that they're. I guess you could argue it the other way that, like, building a snowman is vulnerable. And what if it's not good? But you do it privately enough. Like a hoax, like a trick.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you get really good at snowman.

[Valerie]

You're sort of taking the power back. Like, I think making them come to you whether they like the snowman or not at that point.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

They've come to you.

[Pete Holmes]

At least you can say, like, well, I didn't even make it for you.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're the weirdo that came over here.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just made a snowman. Which, of course, is nonsense.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, you made it because you hope they. They liked it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Especially when you're little.

[Valerie]

It's a pretty genius defense. It just isn't needed anymore. But, I mean, if you're gonna have a defense that's a really good one, and you've. You've made a career out of it.

[Pete Holmes]

I Have made a career out of it. And as I'm working on this kids book and like, this is. Oh, this is vulnerable. But like, I'll just leave some of the art open on my desk. Isn't that darling?

[Valerie]

That's so cute.

[Pete Holmes]

I could close it.

[Valerie]

I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

I leave it open.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So if someone comes in my office and sees it, whether or not they tell me about it, I might get just like a little moment where someone I might not even know they look at and they go like, wow, that's a good snowman. And that's my whole thing.

[Valerie]

This is really so precious.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. Come Saturday, this weekend, I'll be in Pittsburgh and here's my snowman.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's such a trick. It's such a control. It's like, I know what I'm gonna say this Friday at 8:30, I know what I'll be saying. I know what I say. And I have a general sense of how it will do. And like, what. That's a kid who's really, really not okay with just kind of letting the chips fall where they may.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And again, that's why Little League, because the only way to start becoming okay with. You know what if I get over there and I have the wrong kind of pants and I'm not wearing cleats and I'm not. Is just by doing it so many times and surviving it that you just see. And I think by doing it and both of your parents are right there, like, smiling at you.

[Pete Holmes]

An absurd amount of emotional and psychic support coming from the front row of the. It wasn't a bleacher, it was a picnic table. But. And that is the next again, I don't think this is too sad, but the. Like, I'll be very good at a snowman and that'll make me safe. Started at home.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like I saw. And again, I feel a lot of love for my parents. And I'm not shitting on them. I'm just saying that could be true. I'm just saying, like, I saw what would happen to my brother if he wasn't exceptional. And I don't mean in a tiger mom way. I almost mean like a ball busting sort of way. Yeah. We're like breaking my brother's ball.

[Valerie]

Like Jeff. What's his name?

[Pete Holmes]

Jeff Ross.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It had like the feeling of a bar. It was like a bar. And my brother wasn't my sibling or their child. It was like a regular at the bar. And they were like, oh, yeah, How'd that work out.

[Valerie]

And I'm like, he's Cliff. He was Cliff. And your parents were Norm and Carla.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie. I actually think that's just perfect. I mean, we had, like, family jokes, and my brother and I, who love each other very much and are close now, and we've talked about this. Like, there were, like, bits. Yeah, you could still say certain words, and everyone in the family would know. That's the bit we say to John, making fun of his school and, like, what he's studying at his school and would just kind of roast them. And I was like, I got the message real loud and clear. It's not okay, or you're not going to get very far going to Little League and not being incredible. So as soon as I was like, well, this isn't working. I'm not a group activity person. I'm going to learn magic in this order. Magic, then music, then comedy and drawing. All of these things. Theater, improv. You just, like, all of the activities of the. Of those that have retreated.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

These are the retreating activities.

[Valerie]

And then this is the other complication is, like, those are the best ones.

[Pete Holmes]

Which ones?

[Valerie]

All those activities are way better than fucking baseball.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. But I agree, because that was my experience. I'm over here. I feel like a scientist going, like, I think there is. I know there is actually gaggles of young people that are like, thank God for sports. They taught me this, this, this, and this.

[Valerie]

Oh, absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

And because of it. And you can get real obvious in 1985 about it and just be like, it kept them off drugs or it kept them off or whatever. But you can also just be like, they learned what they were capable of. They pushed themselves. They had purpose. Richard Rohr talks so much about initiation and purpose and, like, if you don't give the kid belonging and challenge when they're seven, and then again when they're 15, he's like, when they're 15, the wiring, the brain wiring is like, give me a challenge. Give me a space to grow into. And if you don't, they'll fucking take a knife to you. If that's. If that's the challenge that they can have and that. That's the identity they can have. And I'm like, this is I. Again, in a good way. I feel like Frankenstein at the beach going, like, but I'm taking Leela to Little League, and I'm Frankenstein going, like, anybody want to give me a suggestion of a place that could fit on this field? But I'm like, maybe our baby could be Brilliant and creative and theater and music and drawing and magic and anything she wants. And maybe she could also just be fucking fast and free and with a group, like a group, a tight group.

[Valerie]

That'S the tribe thing too is like happiness is when you're in a group that has a mutual goal.

[Pete Holmes]

Like that's like human beings love that. And, and one of the things I have to fight against is like, you know, like there's a, there's still an urge to like hole up and that's safer. I said in therapy today and I was like, I know that's not the answer. It doesn't work. Your life should be shared. All right, let's go to the mid Rolls. We only have a true hour today. So as we always say, if you like the show, maybe try one of these products. Maybe get one for a friend. It supports, it supports. Keeps the lights on as they say. Here we go. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Element. You guys know by now that healthy hydration isn't just about drinking water. It's about drinking water plus electrolytes. But if you like me, you grew up in the 90s or even now, that usually means an electrolyte drink that's packed with like 30 grams of sugar. It's basically like drinking a soda. It's insane. Elements is here to fix all of that. It's perfect hydration with no junk and no bs. It's the dialed in science backed blend of sodium, potassium and magnesium that floods your cells with everything it needs to fight off headaches, low energy cramps, confusion or worse after a workout. For me personally, it's how I jumpstart my day. It's replaced my morning cup of coffee. It has for many years. I find it incredibly energizing. I also find that it gives my brain all the neuro connectivity it needs and lights me up and I'm ready to go. I love my element in the morning. I love the watermelon salt flavor, that's my favorite. And now I am obsessed with their element sparkling cans which I have delivered to the house. Their black cherry lime flavor is incredible and is a huge crowd pleaser. When people are at the house and they just want to try it and see what all the buzz is about. People love cracking one open. They love the taste and they love the way it makes you feel. The optimum ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium to give you health, performance and energy. It also tastes amazing and we have a wonderful offer from Element. Just go to drinklmnt.com weird. Use promo code. Weird to get a free element sample pack of every flavor when you order any order including the new element sparkling, the bold 16 ounce cans of sparkling electrolyte water. So it's a free element sample pack. You can try all of the flavors which you definitely want to do. Some of them are pretty out there. Meaning I didn't know I would love chocolate mint salt, but I do. Or the chocolate chai. I love all the chocolate flavors. I drink them hot. Or even the mango chili which is a spicy elect electrolyte drink. I didn't know I needed that in my life, but I did. So it's like a 14 value. You get it free with any purchase and if Element doesn't exceed your expectations, they have a no questions asked refund policy. You don't even need to send it back. So support your body, support the show. Go to drinklmnt.com weird get your free sample pack with any purchase. That's drinklmnt.com weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at hostage Tape. You guys know this by now. I saw hostage tape probably like you on social media. People putting a precise dialed in, perfectly sized piece of tape over their mouth to sleep. And of course I was like, that's insane. What is that? Well, it turns out it's not insane. The first time I tried it, it was easy. It was as natural as just a regular night of going to rest. I laid down, my mouth was closed. My brain gets the message. It goes, use the notes. And why do we want to use the nose? Well, breathing through your nose means 20% more oxygen. That alone, imagine eight, nine hours of flooding your brain with 20% more oxygen means deeper sleep. It means waking up feeling refreshed and energized. It's incredible. It's one of the greatest life hacks I have discovered. I haven't so much as taken a nap without hostage tape since I discovered it. It even reduces your risk of sleep apnea, helps with snoring, in my case, eliminated it entirely. And it helps with oral hygiene and bad breath, which is true. Last time I went to the dentist they were like, do you breathe through your nose or your mouth when you sleep? You got to breathe through your nose. I was worried it was going to feel restrictive. It doesn't. It feels natural. So you need to try this if you want to sleep better tonight. Get hostage tape into your nightly routine. I tried it once. I'm hooked for life. Hostage tape doesn't smell like super glue. It fits perfectly. It comes off easily in the morning but stays on all night. They are the official sleep and breathing aid of the UFC for a reason. They are the real deal. And we have a special offer worked out for weirdos. Get a six month supply for 99. That's 50 off when you go to hostagetape.com weird this is the only place where Hostage Tape is selling a six month bundle for 99 bucks. Save 50. Go to hostage tape.com weird support your sleep and support this show. Sleep better [e-mail] weird and we're back. WBEZ Chicago.

[Valerie]

I don't know if this question will make you sad.

[Pete Holmes]

I like how sad this episode I think is.

[Valerie]

Well, I think it's a good one to like kind of change. I did it this morning actually, because I was like, sort of having sad childhood memories. And then I was like, okay, cool. Can I scoop my child self up and take her to one of the happy memories, like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind style. And so I thought of specifically when it snowed in Bakersfield, which it was the first time it had snowed in a hundred years. And I was probably nine, I think. Nine or ten. Yeah. And we just. My mom woke us up and it was supposed to be a school day, which is why what was like extra special about it, but it was a total surprise. Like we lived in a town where it didn't snow. I had never lived where it had snowed. So she woke us up and was like, I'm just waking you up to tell you that you can go back to sleep because there's no school today because it's snowing outside. And just like the double whammy of that news. And then we like, my mom made like the. The food that she made at Christmas. Like, she just made. So it was like biscuits and gravy and, you know, a huge breakfast. And my brother and I went outside and played in the snow and we just had like a whole full, unexpected, cozy snow day. So I like took my child self to that memory. But I was gonna ask you what yours would be.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, I love that. And that doesn't make me sad. I spend a lot of time wondering if, like, how much I'm leaving on the table. That was amazing and good and happy and whatever.

[Valerie]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But I think both can be true.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm comfortable with that. I wrote about this in my book, was there was a very vivid memory of me and some friends were walking. We used to walk. How 80s is this? We used to walk across the street to this House. They were called the Doherty's. Their name was the Dohertys. And the Doherty's had a pool, an ice cold pool. It's a New England pool with the most rigid diving board in the world. And it was in the shade and it was just. But it was a pool. It was incredible. But it was ice cold. I mean, part of the reason why I still am okay with cold water is I was like primed on the Doherty's pool. It was Atlantic Ocean cold and it was a, you know, summer day and we put on our bathing suits and we. I don't even think we used to ask. We just used to go like. We were just allowed to go to the Doherty's pool. It was really cool of them.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Nice.

[Pete Holmes]

So me and I don't remember who the friends were, but I remember it was boys and girls. And I remember it being like three other kids. And I remember that sort of special kid feeling of like, I know something we can do. I even remember my mom being like, you go to the pool? And I was like, oh, my God, we'll go to the pool. We all put on our bathing suits and we started going across the lawn. And it was one of your favorite kind of days because it was sunny, but it started to rain.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So both of our memories are like weather anomalies. And it was raining pretty good. And I remember thinking like, oh, shit, it's probably, oh, poop a doodle. Oh, pooba doodle, it's raining. And then I looked at my friends and they were like, frolicking because they were in their bathing suits.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I realized, like, I'm in my bathing suit, it's okay to be wet. Like, we're not. This is. We were going to go get wet. So, like, I started frolicking too.

[Valerie]

So fun.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And it was a really. And I think it. Even the rain let up and then we. We still went swimming, but there was a moment of just like dancing like Pixies, like hippies in the sun, in the. In the sunny rain in my front yard on the way. It's a big value in my life or a big belief in my life. It's a Seinfeld line where he goes, it's not the movie, it's going to the movies. And when I read that, it's in the book, sign language. When I read that, I was like, oh, my God, someone else sees the world like me. It's never the thing you want to be on your way to the pool and dance like Pixies. And then you still have the pool on deck. Like the Tetris next piece. We still have something else coming after this, but first we're gonna frolic.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And in the book, I liken that to realizing that you're already accepted. Like, it's okay to be wet. There is no test. It's just another example of like when I've had tastes of, we could say my true nature or, or ultimate reality, or you could say God, but when I've encountered it in a real way, in a way that your, your thinking mind can't even bring it back. Like you're having the experience and you know it's going to fall through your fingers and language is going to fail you, but you go there. The feeling is there is no test. It's okay to. It's okay to be wet. You're in your bathing suit. That was the feeling.

[Valerie]

Yes, 100%.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like you're dressed for that and Jesus uses that same thing. It's like going to the wedding and wearing the wrong garment. So there's a feeling of like being properly dressed that is universal and ancient and, and, and the feeling of divine love is, is real. Is actually thinking your not worthy and then looking down and going like, I was always wearing a bathing suit.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It was always okay to get wet. Like this was always okay.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like no wrong moves. It was okay.

[Valerie]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

That was the feeling.

[Valerie]

Oh, of course. I love that. There's also this like sort of added. You know, I think so much of life is trying to come to terms with the fact that we don't have control over it. And anything could happen to anyone at any time. Just living in that is so stressful. But then when that happens in the form of snow or like, like sunny rain, we're like, oh, right. Also, anything could happen to anyone at any time.

[Pete Holmes]

And you can, you can meet it.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember in that Comedians in Cars, another Jerry Seinfeld quote where he had a very Zen approach to something. Somebody was like, what if we get there and it's that? And he's like, if that happens, we'll deal with it.

[Valerie]

I know. And I was like that all the time.

[Pete Holmes]

I think about it all the time too.

[Valerie]

So helpful.

[Pete Holmes]

It, it was deeply helpful. I think it was in the Michael Richards episode, maybe. But there was like he was being extra Zen that episode because he also called our lives like raindrops on a windshield. Which I. This doesn't feel forced. I didn't want to force it. But you, you were just on vacation and There was a night that I had child care, and it just happened very organically. But we ended up doing a mind altering. What do I normally say? An unspecified psych. It was ketamine. We did ketamine. And you.

[Valerie]

And you and a friend.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, me and a friend. Who. That's kind of his thing. He's sort of an unofficial meaning. You can't call him a shaman, I guess, but that's definitely what he does. A guide.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we realized, like, it's actually another one of those, like, oh, it's sunny and it's raining moments. Like, we were not planning on doing this, but we realized, like, wait, we have like, five hours free, and this experience only lasts 40 minutes. So we're like, whoa, we're free. This never happens. We can do this. And I was excited to kind of unpack that a little bit on the podcast. We don't have a ton of time, but the main point, the windshield thing, the raindrops on the windshield. I think I already told you this, but I was like, the main takeaway from that experience. Ketamine is a little bit like mushrooms. It's. It's different because there's. It's almost like it erases your body. Like you don't have a body because your body feels so pleasant. So, like, right now I'm very aware that my back is on this hard wooden chair and my butt is on this mildly cushion. It's not a comfortable chair.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And even my feet are, like pressing into the ground. When you. When you're on ketamine, you. You just. That just vanishes. You just become like a floating awareness because you just don't feel it. So you feel really great. And then that sort of helps you lift off into these other spaces. You. It. It. It's helpful in recognizing your nature of being. Awareness. And one of the main takeaways was it's blissfully irrelevant. In the same way that a lot of people. I know I say this a lot. People that are on their deathbed and they're really face to face with the miracle of their existence because it's fleeting. It's slipping out of their hands, and they're like, why did I spend so much time worrying about this, this or this? Why was I so stressed? Why was I obsessed with this and this respect and this perceived slight and this grudge? Why did I do all that? And that's really what it is. When I say irrelevant, it means, like, put it down. But what's key. I've talked to other people that have had ketamine. It's all irrelevant. Meaning the circumstances of our life aren't the point. And they've come back and been like, it's meaningless. That. That was their interpretation. But I think that's a disservice to the revelation. That's a good book title. A disservice to the revelation. Let me correct your psychedelic interpretations. But if you. If you just get part A, everything is irrelevant without part B. That. That which holds all of the passing phenomena. That through which and as which. And by which it's observed with which the phenomena, meaning awareness, meaning life, meaning it. Meaning. Ugh. That is the point. And it's like the light going through the projector is the point. The light coming out of the projector and the film that goes in front of it that creates the movie is irrelevant in the sense that the real show is the light shooting out of the projector. And if you go, well, the movie's irrelevant. How depressing is that? You go like, well, actually, every. Every frame of the movie is imbued and animated and held and supported and is actually just a projection of the light. Meaning you've never not looked at anything that wasn't God's face.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's why it's blissfully irrelevant. And it's a. It's good news irrelevant.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I started going like, of course I have unprocessed guilt. I'm like, if I was more loving, wouldn't I want to, like, constantly be with my parents? And it was like, that's irrelevant, too.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And in the good way, it was like, why are you so quick to forgive? Which is really what we're. What we're doing. You're so quick to forgive everything, but if you have this unprocessed thing and you're like, well, I don't really like going to Boston, and I feel like I should. And it's like, that's irrelevant, too. It's not like, that's this other thing that you should take really seriously and beat yourself up over.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you're just, you know, tears streaming down your face, going like, it's the good irrelevant meaning there. This is what Neal Brennan says. It's. It's pointless, but it's not meaningless.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And you go like, good pointless.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

The light was the point the whole time. The frames of the movie were not the point. Or you could say the screen was the point. But there is. It's really easy. I just had Lisa Loeb on the podcast, and she talked about the story. It was. One pocket, you keep a piece of paper that says, I am nothing, and in the other pocket, you have a piece of paper that says I am everything. I was like, that's it. It's the paradox of going, like, really bask in the truth that it doesn't matter, and you'll just be absolutely free and blissed out. But then also, don't forget that everything that doesn't matter is animated by and observed with God.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is. Is God's face.

[Valerie]

Absolutely, totally. And as a. Like, a lover of this reality and the human experience, it. It's also like, you know, if I am looking at a movie, the movie is helping me know the screen is there. Meaning.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly.

[Valerie]

I'm not, at least at this point, interested in just staring at the screen. A blank screen, like, I'm watching it. I. I know that the movie is only happening because of the screen, but I'm loving the movie.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And it's in the nature of the screen to play a movie.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's in. It's so interesting that our nature is human beings, which I think is divine. And I'm not trying to big up show business, believe me. I'm just saying we love songs and stories and conversation. We love creating even just little dramas. Like, we love it. We love playing all these stories out and all these movies out. And really, the whole time, that was another thing that my friend said. He was like, sometimes when you're in that state, there's a voice that's like, shut up, shut up, shut up. You're ruining it. You're ruining the trick. You wanted the trick. Stop ruining the magic trick. I know you know I have a living dove in my pocket, but. Shh. You wanted to pretend you were in Cleveland, so just be in Cleveland.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's okay.

[Valerie]

Yeah, it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's meaningless, but it's blissfully meaningless. And you've never left.

[Valerie]

It's pointless, but not meaningless.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's. And it's blissfully so.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Whatever it is, it's blissfully so. And then, like, there was another point, and this is too. I know we're almost out of time. We got to go get Leela. But there was a moment where I was doing some forgiveness work that was, like, off the charts. Like, I can't really talk about it because ketamine can really put you in a heart space. This was like. This was the close your eyes and lay down part of the journey. And we were both doing that. And at one Point I said to my friend, I go, if you remove separation and time. And that's all I said. And then we were just laid there for 45 minutes. And he went totally. And he knew exactly what I was saying. What I was saying was, if you remove separation and time, there's no problem. All of your problems come from a perception of separation, which I agree, that's my perception as well. I'm not saying I'm constantly walking around in unit of consciousness, but when you're in unit of consciousness, you go like, of course you're having an issue. You think there are other things that owe you things and owe you respect and this and that and all that. But if you remove separation, it's all you, it's all I. Okay, that. How can you suffer if it's all just I. And then you remove time? Because then there's no story. It's all just eternal. It's all outside of time. So it's like the Buddhists say, no self, no problem. But meaning no separate self, no problem.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I was really experiencing that. And then. And ketamine can be a little bit mischievous. And then it'll start showing you just, like, thinking about it. It's not like. It's not a hallucination, but you'll start thinking about horrible things that have happened. And you're going like, yeah, that was all me. This really intense. That was something I did to myself as myself. Nobody in the other boat. That was just something that happened that I did.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not. I'm not saying Pete did that. That the. I did, and I was forgiving it. And then it started getting a little too intense. I was like, this is beyond my skill to heal. I can't forgive everything. It's just a little too frightening. Even though it was still very blissful and I wanted a break. And I was like, can we do something else? Like, kind of talking to it. I was like, can we do something else? I get it, I get it. But can we do something else? I was like, sure. And it was like, be a bird. Think about a bird. Not a bird looking for food, but a bird that's, like, at rest. That's like soaring in the sky or perched on a branch. And there are birds, millions of those of birds that are doing that right now. So it's not abstraction. It's not Christ or the Buddha. It's a bird in 2024. This bird doesn't know about any of the things you're thinking about right now, whether it's Global warming or this or that. Politics or it's just naked awareness. And it's the same. You said eternal sunshine at the spotless mind. That was a synchronicity. Because on my trip I was like, eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. That's it. That's the whole thing. If you can remove all of these hang ups and all of these, the incessant thought addictions and anxieties and worries and compulsions, if you get all of that and look at your being, your naked being, it's eternal sunshine. And that's what a bird is. And it just. It felt like it put its hands under my head like a mother and was like, just be a bird. And I was bird brained.

[Valerie]

Bird brain.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just laid there going like, do you know what the reason why a bird is so much more helpful is? That's happening now. It's not a mythic symbol. That bird is just empty.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it wants food or whatever, but it's not thinking about a tragedy that happened 150 years ago.

[Valerie]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, be a bird. And that stayed with me. And a lot of it stayed with me. It's been pretty weird.

[Valerie]

All right, bird brain.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, you bird brains.

[Valerie]

All right, baby. Bird brains. That's so great, baby.

[Pete Holmes]

I know we have to go. I hope that didn't feel forced, but I was excited to share some of that.

[Valerie]

No, I love it. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, all right.

[Valerie]

Okay. Go ahead and keep it crispy.