We Made It Weird #195

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #195
Date: October 11, 2024
Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Valerie Chaney (Pete’s wife)
Theme: Exploring AI-generated podcasts, human weirdness, and the nature of real vs. artificial creativity

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Episode Overview

This special episode dives into a unique experiment: Pete and Valerie listen to and dissect an AI-generated podcast that was built using the transcript of their own previous episode. They reflect on the uncanny similarities, discuss what makes something feel “human,” and explore the broader implications of AI creations. Along the way, they meander (in classic We Made It Weird fashion) through body weirdness, coffee hacks, and the future of media and connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recording in a Hotel: “The Throat is the Dune Worm”

[06:30-09:25]

• Pete and Valerie open with quirky banter about physical weirdness; their throats feel like “Dune creatures.”
• Pete reflects on how we often dissociate from our “gross” physical bodies and tend to identify with our brains instead.
  • Pete: “Maybe we’re not our bodies. Maybe we’re meaning… even if you don’t look at that as a soul or something spiritual, we’re the awareness, we’re consciousness, and we have these bodies.”
• Valerie suggests our minds shame our bodies, resulting in discomfort with physical “grossness”—even things as basic as a throat gurgle during stand-up.

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2. Coffee Deep-Dive: The “Long Shot” Hack

[11:16-17:41]

• Pete shares his “coffee hack” for espresso-lovers: ordering a “long shot” at Starbucks to get a longer, more satisfying espresso with the same number of shots.
  • Pete: “If you are like me, and for years, you searched for a way to get more espresso without ordering four shots… just ask for a double espresso, long shot… shaboopi.” [13:12]
• Discussion of the technical aspects of making espresso (timing, grind, etc.)
• Lighthearted back-and-forth about baristas judging customer coffee requests.

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3. Introducing the AI Podcast Experiment

[17:41-24:06]

• Valerie introduces a continuation from last week’s “Cereal Soda AI” discussion: Pete’s brother-in-law used Google’s Notebook LM to generate a new podcast from their transcript.
  • Pete: “It can make a podcast! And he sent it to us...” [22:13]
• They express fascination at the potential: imagine uploading a dense book and getting a lively conversational summary.

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4. Playing the AI-Generated Podcast

[24:06-38:12]

• Pete and Valerie listen to the AI podcast that rehashes their “cereal and soda pairings” bit.
  • Both are struck and unnerved by the rhythm and “musicality” of the AI hosts, noting it closely mirrors their own cadence.
    • Valerie: “Are they reproducing our specific, specific rhythm?” [25:06]
  • AI invents smart phrases (“soulmate sodas,” “yours for the tasting”) and picks up on their themes, even extrapolating new associations.
    • Pete (impressed): “Hats off. I’m giving you a standing ovation. I can’t believe it’s not on the front page of the New York Times. It’s insane.” [29:02]
  • They note slight “offs”—the hosts never interrupt each other, or sound like they’re reading a script, making it feel subtly artificial.

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5. What Makes Humans Different?

[38:12-49:05]

• Pete and Valerie explore the human qualities lost when AI takes over creative or connective tasks.
  • Pete likens artistic creation to an “everyday ceremony” where meaning, process, and imperfection matter.
  • Valerie suggests the enduring appeal of real human connection in the content people seek.
• They muse on the possibility that AI broadcasts might become so ubiquitous that “live” performance art, mistakes, and flaws will become more precious.

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6. The Future of AI Media and Connection

[49:05-67:02]

• Pete posits that people don’t just consume content; they’re drawn to the real relationships and unfiltered moments—e.g., listeners are interested in his and Valerie’s moods, their dynamic, and “realness.”
  • Pete: “The big appeal… is that they know we’re in a real relationship, and they’re getting a glimpse into what an actual real relationship looks like.” [50:39]
• Valerie anticipates that while AI can supplement human experiences—such as tutoring or mental health support—it can’t replace the deep human need for in-person, energetic connection.
  • Valerie: “We crave human connection. That’s what we live for.”
• Both predict a future where hyper-personalized AI “portals” provide a perfect stream of content tailored to every whim, but agree that this will bring its own emptiness, increasing the value of authenticity.
  • Pete: “Getting everything you want isn’t the answer… we’ll realize we’ve just been wanting each other all along.” [63:21 & 61:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI's mimicry and rhythm:

  • Valerie ([25:06]): “Are they reproducing our specific, specific rhythm?”
  • Pete ([24:18]): “If she said yes a little faster or a little slower, it would have been wrong. But they’re sharing a musicality that you and I are also sharing.”

• On losing creative process:

  • Pete ([49:11]): “What’s being lost there isn’t just the job… It was their ceremony. It was their… the way that they participated with their imaginations and their consciousness and their heart… That whole process… was how they experienced their own divinity…”

• On real vs. AI-created media:

  • Valerie ([58:16]): “If we found out that [the premise of] ‘My Dad Wrote a Porno’ wasn’t true… we would not care about it. We care that it’s this actual guy’s dad…”

• On the paradox of digital abundance:

  • Pete ([63:00]): “We’re given everything we want… And you go like, this wasn’t the answer.”

• On the holy dissatisfaction of human life:

  • Pete ([66:12]): “There’s that George Carlin joke… here we are [in paradise]… and then Adam goes, ‘Yeah, it’s just not enough, is it?’ That’s the holy dissatisfaction…”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:30] – Start of body-weirdness banter
• [11:16] – Pete’s “long shot” coffee hack explained
• [17:41] – AI-generated podcast experiment introduced
• [24:06] – Playing and reacting to the AI podcast
• [29:02] – Pete’s awe at the AI’s sophistication
• [33:18] – AI-generated diner breakfast insight (Frosted Flakes and Coke)
• [38:12] – Reflection on what gets lost when AI takes over creative jobs
• [49:05] – Human connection and performing “realness”
• [61:29] – Valerie’s “Jim Carrey point” on realizing digital abundance isn’t satisfying
• [66:12] – Pete’s philosophical takeaway on “holy dissatisfaction”
• [67:17] – AI podcast closing (“The answers, my friend, are yours for the tasting”)

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Highlights: Playful, Philosophical, and Deeply “Weird”

• The whole episode is suffused with awe and disquiet about how easily the AI can mimic their podcasting style, humor, and tone.
• Pete marvels at the implications for education, creativity, and the outsourcing of meaning-making to machines.
• Valerie maintains optimism, believing nothing replaces real connection; if anything, AI may underline why human presence and process are so important.
• The episode closes with the AI podcast offering a surprisingly poetic outro—prompting one more round of admiration and existential weirdness.

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Final Thoughts

Pete and Valerie’s experiment is both hilarious and profound, as they examine what makes their “weirdness” truly human, and why that matters as AI increasingly closes the gap between the authentic and the artificial. Their conclusion: technology may get “weird,” but actual connection, flaws, and lived experience are irreplaceable.

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Closing Quote

"Getting everything you want isn’t the answer… what we’ll realize is that we’ve just been wanting each other all along.”
—Valerie ([61:29])

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Last word (AI-generated):

“The answers, my friend, are yours for the tasting.”
—[67:36]

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird. With Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos?

[A]

This is an extra special episode. We play and dissect an AI generated podcast based on our last episode. And this is a. We made it weird for the ages. It's really interesting. Really got me in my head. Almost like a weird dream or something.

[B]

Yeah, it's trippy.

[A]

So you guys are here for a very good one. If this is your first We Made it Weird, these are the bonus episodes, meaning the Wednesday is me and a guest and Friday is me and my special guest, Valerie, my wife. I'm your husband.

[B]

Yes. Get it right, please.

[A]

And we're so glad you're here. And like I said, we play an AI generated episode of this podcast and break it down and it is a hoot. So this is. Don't. I'm glad you're here. Don't miss this one.

[B]

Yeah, just. Just keep doing what you're doing.

[A]

You don't.

[B]

Just don't change anything.

[A]

Don't stop. Yeah, just keep doing it and come see me on the road. I'm going to be in Minneapolis the day today. Well, tomorrow. So it'll be out. I'll be there tomorrow and Val will be there as well. And then there's Denver and Portland. We just added a second show for Portland at the Aladdin. I'm so excited to be in Portland. Anyway, just go to PeterHomes.com for all my tour dates. And the next Largo is on the 29th of October. Go to Largo LA dot com. That's going to be an incredible one show gets the lights on from the ads. If you like these things. These are things I'm speaking sincerely, that I really use and I really love. And if you like them, use our promo code and it helps support the show. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. Have you ever laid on a bed of nails? I have not exactly. What I use is called a Shakti mat. What is a Shakti mat? It is a mat, obviously, with thousands and thousands of small, tiny spikes on it. And what does it do? It melts away my back pain, my tension, my stress neck, shoulders, arms. And it's there whenever I need it. It's a little bit like cold exposure in that it hurts a little bit at first. There is a shock, there is some pain. And then after a couple minutes it starts to melt away into this warm boosted circulation body feeling that is deep relaxation and unlike massage, which is expensive, difficult to book, and you end up oily, chakra mat is there whenever I need it. So when I just feel that tension creeping up into my shoulders and I want a massage but I don't have for a massage, I just roll out the Shakti mat, lay down on it right then and there. It's on call, on demand, whenever you need it, however much you need it, and it melts away that pain. For me, it is incredible. It's intense, it's fun. I've tried other kinds of acupressure mats, but there is no comparison. Shakti is by far the highest quality materials, and they're made in India by people who are paid for fairly and made with the best available materials. And Shakti is the sharpest on the market, which means they work the best. They're the only ones that have worked. For me personally, I can vouch for that. We're talking about deeper sleep, stress relief, muscle relaxation, better circulation, mental clarity, and just a general sense of wellness whenever you need it. That is the key for me. There's a lot of things we can do to de stress, sauna, whatever it might be. But nothing is like the Shakti mat in that you just unfurl it, have a quick lay and feel that tension melting away. I swear by it. It's been a secret weapon of mine from for over a year. I swear you will love it. If you love it 1 10th as much as I do, you're about to lose your mind. Go to Shakti matt S-H-A-K-T-I-M-A-T.com and use promo code weird30 at checkout and you will get 30% off your Shakti mat. I would say get the pillow as well. It curls under your neck and it feels so good. I absolutely love it. Your friends, if your friends are like mine when they see it, they're going to want to try it too. It's kind of a fun little conversation starter. And when people see how it feels, they want to get one as well. So go to shaktimatt.com and use promo code weird30 for 30% off. We're also brought to us by our friends heperfectgene. You guys know I'm not just reading copy like a robot mechanically telling you that you should get the perfect jean and the perfect T shirt. This is a perfect T shirt. This is a perfect jean T shirt. Why am I wearing it on the chair behind me? Why are those perfect jeans? Because it's what I wear why? Because they are the softest, best looking, best feeling, highest quality clothes that I found. This shirt is the best T shirt I own. You can see it's a little bit stretchy, and it's the same thing with the perfect jean. They're almost like pajama pants, but they look like designer jeans, and they're built durable, and they last. They. They come in so many different washes and styles and cuts. These are the only jeans you should be wearing. I don't know why it's 2024 and we're still wearing hard pants. It's ridiculous. I've worn these to premieres. I've worn these on specials. My. My special, my Netflix special. I'm wearing perfect jean. I'm wearing a perfect jean T shirt. They're my favorite clothes in the world. So they look amazing, but they feel amazing. They feel like they're custom made, and they look fantastic. They have sizes from 20 to 26 to 50 lengths from. To 38. It doesn't matter if you're a short king, a thick daddy, or somewhere in between. You can find the perfect fit for the body that you are rocking. And for a limited time, our listeners get 15% off their first order, plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC or Google the Perfect Gene and use our code BABYBUNS15. You'll get 15% off if you go to baby. If you go to the perfect gene NYC and use code BABYBUNS BUNS15, do it. Tell them we sent you and start feeling better in your buns today. All right, everybody. So glad you're here.

[B]

Valerie, get into it.

[A]

All right. Welcome to the show. We're recording in a hotel.

[B]

And we're dying.

[A]

Sometimes your mouth just gives out on you.

[B]

Oh, it totally does. The throat is pretty much its own entity.

[A]

I don't even wanna talk about the throat. Yeah.

[B]

So isn't it like the dune creature? Kind of.

[A]

It is the worm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I watched that, I was like, hey, that's my throat.

[A]

No, we're a bunch of dune creatures eating a head. You know, like it's. It's mid gobble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And make no mistake, the throat gets the last laugh.

[B]

That's.

[A]

So when you die, it gobbles your head. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Everybody knows this, but there is something.

[A]

Funny about human beings. I think this all the time watching science fiction, fantasy to be like, yeah, right. Whoa. And we're wet.

[B]

It's our bodies.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's us. It's how we. If you want, I Mean, usually we save this sort of stuff for the end, but I think there's an awareness that that's we're not our bodies. Maybe like so we're kind of like, we're meaning. Even if you don't look at that as a soul or something spiritual, we're the awareness. We're consciousness and we have these bodies. So we kind of have to like make sense of it. It's so weird that we look down and see these like meaning this in a very non spiritual way. We are this pristine sight, sound, smells, touch, taste. It's this experience and it's very clean like that with which you experience. Everything is very clean and nuanced and not nuance. It's. It's actually quite obvious and expansive, but clean. And then the body is like packed with shit and blood and pus and flint. It's so nasty. So of course we're like, show me that dune monster and let's shoot it and let's run from it and let's be grossed out. Let's make something grosser than us.

[B]

I wonder if it's that or I wonder if we really like our bodies and being in our bodies is the most natural thing ever. But then we've. We've evolved to the point where we've started to identify more with our brain.

[A]

The brain. The mind. Yeah.

[B]

And then our brain is just so mean to our bodies.

[A]

I think that's great. I think that's better. Not that it needs to be a competition, but you win.

[B]

I don't think. All right, well, I'll take it. I'm not going to say no to a win.

[A]

You do win. But I think you're right. We're so. See, I look at it as consciousness, but you could also just easily say it's our minds and we're obsessed with thinking and we forget that we're bodies and we're disembodied. And there is along with that, like a shame. And obviously we know about like sex shame. But I just think there's just like base, everybody poops body shame.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That we're like, how weird that we're like gurgling and that our throats like drop out on us. That's why when I'm doing stand up, if your throat does that, people are really quick to like turn on you. It's not like a. It's not like dropping a plate at a Greek wedding. It's not like a happy.

[B]

Right. It's not a hoop oopa moment.

[A]

Isn't it? Opa? But, yeah, Opa.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I think you can say oopa.

[B]

It's Opa.

[A]

But I think some people probably say, I just want to love you. I want to support you. I want you to feel safe. We started this podcast and then we started it over, and I was making fun of Jared for looking like a Jared from Subway who looked like a souffle that collapsed in the oven. And then you thought I was body shaming him. And then I said, he's a pedophile. And then you said, oh, right, you can fat shame a pedophile. Which was so funny. And that was the only thing really worth carrying over.

[B]

Yeah. And it was also the reason we started over.

[A]

Well, because there was a weird dual embarrassment. I was embarrassed that you didn't laugh at my Jared joke, and you were.

[B]

Embarrassed that I didn't remember that he was a pedophile.

[A]

Well, I also. I mean, look, that's just interesting to me, maybe being in the comedy world, once Jared became that fan open for business. Yeah. It became. People couldn't wait to make fun of him. Ah. Which. Okay, we're not even touching that. Here's the other thing I started to say, which I don't think I've ever said on this podcast, and I was quite excited to say. And we have something extra special that we want to play for you guys, but something that we've talked a little bit about. Like the coffee shop that wouldn't give me a triple espresso. Remember that one?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we've talked a little bit about coffee, but I don't know if we ever covered this. And I really think it's a coffee hack. And it's the long shot. I like espresso. It's almost over. If you guys aren't coffee people, it's very short tip. You go to Starbucks and you want a double espresso, but I used to order a triple espresso because you want more espresso. And now you can. I figured out. Or somebody. I forget how I found out. Somebody probably told me, you can order a double shot and say, make it a long shot. Give me a double espresso. Could you make it a long shot? And they run the water through it more and you end up getting, like, a lot more espresso.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's incredible. It's over. We're done. No, but if I was listening, I'd be like, what? I'd be. And it's in the mobile order app. It's not like a weird thing if they can't find it, you just say, there's a button that says long shot. They find it.

[B]

There's a button that says long shot.

[A]

I've done it at Starbucks.

[B]

Right. Because all. All espresso machines are different, and a lot of them are. When you're asking for that, people are just running it a little longer than.

[A]

They would, I would say, on a proper machine. Now, Starbucks are digital machines.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's not a pull anymore. It's not like a. There's no baristing, really. No offense to my barista friends.

[B]

I think they're. I think they're doing the tamping and all of that. But then, yeah, the machine takes care.

[A]

When it comes to, like, the pressure and the length, which I think is sort of the bulk of the baristing.

[B]

It's half of it.

[A]

All right, it's half of it. Then you're still getting an F. You're only doing half of it. F fail. But now it's all buttons. But there is a button that. I think it has an L on it for a long shot. So if you are like me, and for years, you searched for a way to get more espresso without ordering four shots of it, which is too much, or three, and being ridiculed. But you want more, just ask for a double espresso, long shot, a shaboopi.

[B]

And I asked that for you downstairs.

[A]

They didn't do it when I got.

[B]

The coffee, and I kind of knew that they didn't like. So I said to the guy, what did I say to him? I said. I said, can I get an oat milk latte? Thank you very much. That's for me. And double espresso. And I said, and can you guys pull that long?

[A]

That's the cool way to say it.

[B]

Yeah, can you pull that long? And he was like, yeah, like. Like, he was, like, saying it, like. Yeah. And now in hindsight, I'm like, he. I think he was thinking, like, yeah, that's what we do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But I was like, okay. And then I heard him say to the barista, and a double espresso. Like, he didn't say anything about it being pulled long.

[A]

Well, if we're being real, Miami, do you have more?

[B]

Well, I just sat there going, like, should I say something? And then I played out the whole tape where I walk in to the room and I go. I told them to pull it long, but they didn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I knew what was happening, but I just didn't say anything. And I'm really sorry.

[A]

No, you don't have to be sorry. It's totally fine. This is the world of those of us that drink long shots, which is 0.01% of the population know this pain all too well. Nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about. And going back to embarrassment, they'll just say like, yeah, like, my interpretation of what happened is he thought you were saying, could you pull it? Could you pull it? Could you like, make it like something really stupid?

[B]

He just assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about, I think.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

And so he's like, yeah, just do it. How? How we do it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which I was a barista and I definitely felt like 90% of the people that were ordering coffee didn't know what they were talking about.

[A]

I would agree with that. I think that's true. And you, look, I would love this. I'm going to give a disclaimer that this coffee talk is almost over. But I am going to say, as a long shot person, is there another way to say it? Pull it long? Yeah, I guess that's it. But like, it's long.

[B]

It's a long shot. Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes you get a fun person being like, it's a long shot, but like, some people will say no.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they'll say it ruins the taste.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have to be like, no, it doesn't. You know what I want to say when they say that? I'm like, well, then give me a long shot and give me a regular one and I'll do a taste test for you. Well, I can do one.

[B]

Well, it's because it is. It does change the coffee to water ratio.

[A]

It does.

[B]

And I think there's some. There is maybe something that's called that. Like, is that that's not what a mixed dough is or. I don't know. But here's what I do know. When I worked at Shout Out, Jitterbean and Humboldt, I. We had to time our shots. And like a perfect shot, the machine would cut it off at a certain point, but the machine, we had to time it to make sure that it was cutting it off between 30 seconds and 33 seconds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was the perfect window. And if it wasn't, then you adjust the grind. So.

[A]

Because you were full barista ing.

[B]

Yeah. And it was like, you have to get like a perfect shot. And so if they're doing something like that, they might feel like they're allowed to.

[A]

And I'm actually not mad at that. And the place that said no, I Remember? I don't remember. I think it was in Chicago. They said no, and I said, fine. I didn't even. That sounds petulant. I wasn't like, fine. I was like, okay. And I tried it, and it was incredible. And it was this little dainty shot, and I understand, but there's also just, like. I think there's a lot. I was watching Sideways, the movie Sideways, obviously, and Paul Giamatti, in the beginning, orders a triple espresso.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, isn't it funny that this guy, this connoisseur of wine, it was almost like. It seemed like it might be a mistake, but, like, also not. It just. It means, like, he really likes coffee. He's really hungover. And I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of us out there that just want more coffee.

[B]

More coffee. Long shot, long shot, long shot. All right, all right, all right. That's enough coffee talk.

[A]

Look, I could talk about it a lot longer.

[B]

Oh, me too.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And when the last thing I was like, the grind being. It needs to be finer to slow it down and all that sort of stuff. Very interesting. I like it. Anyway, yeah, we. I'm gonna play something for our friends.

[B]

It's a continuation of the Cereal Soda AI conversation from last week.

[A]

AI?

[B]

Yeah. Cause remember, we asked ChatGPT.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We asked ChatGPT to, like, participate, and.

[B]

We were pretty impressed with how similar it was to our answers.

[A]

Well, I remember also understanding when I was like, isn't it kind of cozy? The Jurassic Park T. Rex scene? And it. You know, I do. I. I think we're. We're fast approaching a world where it becomes just how obvious how, like, sort of simple we are. Like, I was impressed that it agreed with me and was like, I can see that. And I'm like, what?

[B]

Oh, I know. And. And I did think that, like, if this is a dystopian, I really don't think that it is. I have. I'm pretty optimistic about AI. But if it is, like, the beginning of a dystopian thing really feels, like, so on par and so, like, Twilight Zone Y, that it's like, it just has to mirror us, compliment us, be kind. And we're just like, it's good.

[A]

Well, think about it, right? So I go home to see my parents. Let's say a tricky, you know, effortful situation. For me, that could be true. I go and see them, and I know the program to run, but I run into something my will. Like a very human Thing which is my intolerance, that there's certain things that are unacceptable to me, certain degrees of sovereignty, independence, all that sort of stuff. So. But if I could put that aside and go home and just run a program where I mirror, agree, laugh, praise, it would be fine. And both of my parents would be like, peter seems great or whatever, you know what I mean? But, like, I think there's something very. It feels like a wave that swells up and picks you up, that goes like, this is my throat again. This is over the line that crosses my boundaries.

[B]

I'm having to give too much.

[A]

I'm giving, like, yeah, but an AI would be total. That's why, like, when it comes to, like, international relations, like, UN stuff, like, we need to talk about this and this, like, to be able to, like. Because to think that people in the UN are also flooded with similar swells of emotion and passion that might not be. Well, I'm saying being human is irrational and that people that are, like, in war rooms are feeling like. You hope, like, when we watch the West Wing, that Martin Sheen is putting all of his emotions aside. But that's part of the fun of the show. You're like, but he just had that fight with his daughter, and now he's feeling like he can't control his family, so of course he's gonna invade Serbia or whatever. You know what I mean? We know that. That's what makes us so human. But, yeah. Do you. Did we get there? We are so easy to please. And it's not. It's no surprise. That's the period on the sentence. It's no surprise that a machine could, like. A machine, an AI could, like, very easily win us over.

[B]

It's figuring if it's figuring out fawning, which I guess developmentally makes sense. Like, I think that children figure that out early on maybe too, like, be. Be kind to please others.

[A]

Right? And that's a laughable. We all experience this when we're writing texts. You know, you get a text and you start replying from your heart, and then you're like, no. Like, let's say you're upset. You're like, no, and you rewrite. The AI is just doing all that in, like, a split second, right? And going, like, long term, it's better to, like, keep this copacetic. But I'll also get what I want. I don't even know if it's thinking that way. But what we have. I'm gonna put it to you, Val. Should we play it and then say, what it is. Oh, should we say what it is and then play it?

[B]

I think we should say what it is.

[A]

I think I just ruined it. Anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your brother, the wonderful Derek Chaney, sent. Oh, I don't have it. It's called Notebook something.

[B]

Oh, no, it's a new feature on Google. It's like.

[A]

Yeah, but it's called Notebook.

[B]

Oh, LM or something.

[A]

Yeah, Notebook LM Language model.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Notebook LM can make a podcast. This is. This is so weird to be able to say this. It can make a podcast. And he sent it to us.

[B]

It can make a podcast. You upload any, I think any text and it will make a podcast about it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So he uploaded the transcript of our last podcast.

[A]

So I'm sure he used an AI app to transcribe our podcast and then he uploaded it to a different AI to make a new podcast based on it. I'm going to say right up top that this Derek. Later we'll get into the analysis. But I was like, the implications of this are really cool. If I, for example, everyone knows I love Rupert Spira. If I uploaded the transcription of one of his books, I could have like a seven hour podcast just like condensing it. It's like a new way to absorb it. Yeah. It's like, I don't want to just read it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Could I have a couple voices?

[B]

Wow. Talking about it would have changed high school.

[A]

Like, it was high school if you had a very dense textbook and you're like, I could listen to this if it was an engaging conversation. Conversation, Totally. I mean, that's pretty exciting. I just thought of that too.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not trying to.

[B]

You're so smart.

[A]

No, I know. I guess I am looking for. But like, that's just occurring to me now. I'm just trying to say, like. And we're unpacking this in real time. So anyway, we're going to play a little bit of it. This is. I was going to say, like, look, some fans made podcasts, but no, this is an AI. This is. Yeah, Made by AI. He uploaded last week's episode and he said it came out in three minutes and we're going to play a little bit of it and then we'll talk a little bit about it. But here, here we go. You want to hear it? Here it goes. Okay.

[C]

So have you ever, like, I don't know, stumbled on one of those conversations where it's like someone's take on the world, it just clicks?

[D]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

It's like they're speaking your language.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

But it's a language you didn't even know existed. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Those little shared realities. Those are always fun.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And, like, today we're diving into.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna pause right there. I'm gonna pause right there because I'm freaking out all over again. The. The. The music of it I know is perfect. When he's like, yeah, those little. Those little shared realities. And she goes, yes. Like, there's a way that we. If she said yes a little faster or a little slower, it would have been wrong. But they're sharing a musicality that you and I are also sharing.

[B]

Well, that. This is the first time. When I listened to this, the first time, I was. I thought, they're just reproducing how all people talk on podcasts, but this was the first time I listened to it, and I was like, are they reproducing our specific, specific rhythm?

[A]

I think because he uploaded our podcast, and it's a man and a woman or a male. A low voice and a high voice. I don't know. I'm not trying to. You understand?

[B]

I'm not trying to gender these.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm just saying, like, it. It was like, this is the dynamic. It's a male, female, married couple talking about cereal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is how they talked. So that's another fawning thing. The future is fawning. The AI was like, oh, this is what you think a podcast sounds like. Well, here you go. Three minutes later. This. But that. Yes, I know. Let's. Let's listen to just that. Yes.

[B]

And the placement of, like.

[A]

Oh, the like. And listen to it again real quick.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Those little shared realities. Those are always fun.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And like, today, we're diving into one of those weirdly specific shared realities. We're talking about cereal and soda pairings.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Cereal and soda pairings.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

All right, you got me. Tell me more.

[C]

Okay, so pick.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You say it just like her.

[A]

Okay, tell me more. No, that I am grasping. Let's start here. I think there's something funny about how, like, VCRs in the. In the 90s, everyone was like, how do you get it to stop blinking 12? You know what I mean? And there's a way to blinking 12 this. And that is not my intent. The only thing. The only way that I can kind of go, this isn't real, is a moment, like, where he goes, okay, shared realities. You got me. Tell me more. It feels really like, launching a thing, but that's me grasping at anything that seems in inhuman about it. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, tell me more like, if I said that to you, I don't know if I was like, all right, shared realities. You got me. Tell me more.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you would specifically never say that, but I wonder if there are on npr.

[A]

They would.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Terry Gross would be like, all right, shared realities. So do pairings. Tell me more like, that is where it's borrowing from a show that isn't ours.

[B]

You're right. Totally. Also, the fact that they're not interrupting each other is making me think, like. Yeah, it's not following ours specifically.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. It doesn't interrupt itself. Why would it. That's highly illogical. Let's listen to a little bit more this.

[C]

We've got these two people, Pete and Belle, and they discovered that they share this, like, uncanny ability to match cereals with their soulmate Soul Sodas.

[D]

Soulmate sodas.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay, so we're going deep, and I'm.

[C]

Not talking about, like, simply match.

[A]

We didn't say soulmate sodas.

[B]

They thought of soulmate sodas, which is so smart.

[A]

Soulmate soda. I'm a little fucking rocked that we didn't think Soulmate soda. And there's a pun at the end. We're not going to play the whole thing, obviously.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Although it's only eight minutes long, but towards the end. What was the pun?

[B]

She says, you know, like, these pairings are yours for the tasting.

[A]

Yours for the taste.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I like that.

[A]

Which. Oh, my God.

[C]

A little bit more colors here. This is deeper.

[D]

Interesting.

[C]

They're talking about a deeper connection, Like a feeling, like an intrinsic harmony between the cereal and the soda.

[A]

I like it.

[D]

I'm intrigued.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And their prime example, the one that, like, kicked this whole thing off, is Apple Jacks and Mountain Dew.

[D]

Interesting.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

So, I mean, I can see where while the green connection is obvious.

[C]

Totally.

[D]

You know, I can see how those flavors might work together.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like they both have that, you know, that in your face sweetness.

[A]

Right.

[C]

That just works.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

You know, it's not just about, like, a single flavor note. It's the whole sensory experience.

[A]

Right. Okay, look again, I'm grasping. I'm start with a compliment and be like, holy. The way that he sounds like he's thinking while he's talking. He's like, okay, yeah, I. I see that. And, like, it's flawless. Everyone that worked on this, unbelievable. I can't believe it's not on the front page of the New York Times. It's insane. Yeah, I'm blown away. And I remember when we listened to this, this was the first moment where I was like, it's just the slightest bit off. Like, the reason why Apple Jack's is Mountain Dew isn't just because it's like it all works or whatever. It's like up front, what did she say?

[B]

Like the flavor.

[A]

It's more like a tude.

[B]

Yeah, it's more like it has more.

[A]

To do with the marketing and the branding.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And we didn't say it has to do with the marketing. The branding.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But again, there's something atterred that human beings will do. They'll go, well, my relationship to Apple Jacks isn't just as an edible thing. It's literally my first and foremost relationship with Apple Jacks and, and Mountain Dew is Apple Jacks is a kid skateboarding with knee pads and elbow pads in an emptied out pool, taking a break and whatever. I don't remember what the slogan was, but it was like taste the crunch or whatever. And then meanwhile, Mountain Dew is a guy snowboarding and it says do the do. So it has so much more to do with the marketing, the marketing than it does.

[B]

I kind of feel like they make that point at some point in this. They, they allude to it depending on your specific associations with.

[A]

They do, but. And again, I'm not blinking 12 this, hats off. I'm giving you a standing ovation. But they don't generate yet new info. They don't go, if we were listening to this and they said what we didn't say on the podcast, which is like, well, you know, Mountain Dew is like do the Dew. It's like extreme. It's like snowboarding, it's water skiing, it's back flipping into a pool. And Apple Jacks was also kind of that Bart Simpson sort of like, it's too sweet, it's a little sour. It's a little rude. It's like Sour Patch Kids. Like if, if Apple Jacks is Mountain Dew, Mountain Dew is Sour Patch Kids. Like, if they did that, I would be like, what the just happened?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But what's clear from this is they will.

[B]

I know. Well, that's what I'm saying is if you think of it as like a kid, like imagine we said to Leela, how is, you know, assuming she knew what either of these things were, but like, how is Mountain Dew like Apple Jacks? And she was like, well, it has not just like a Single flavor note. But it has, like, this. You know what I mean? They're. They are taking our premise and making ways that that could be true. Like, they are.

[A]

They're extrapolating.

[B]

Yes, thank you. That was the word I was looking for. And it's not exactly how we would describe it, but it's still pretty good. It's still information that we didn't give them, is what I'm saying.

[A]

No, that's true. We didn't say flavor profile. And the thing about. There's an apple taste and there's a sour taste and there's a sugar taste, but that could be said about. Again, I'm not. Let's listen to a little bit more.

[D]

You've got the sweetness. You got the carbonation from the Mountain Dew. The crunch of the cereal.

[C]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

They kind of.

[C]

And it goes beyond Apple Jacks and Mountain Dew.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So get ready for this. They pair Frosted Flakes with Coca Cola Classic.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[D]

That's almost like a comforting.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Like familiarity.

[C]

Yeah, it's that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That diner breakfast distilled into a bowl and a glass.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Diner breakfast is that.

[B]

We didn't think of that.

[A]

We. You're absolutely right. That's hats off entertainment right there. A diner serving Coke and serving Frosted Flakes. Because diners only are serving headliner cereals. You know, you go to a restaurant, it's Cheerios, it's Frosted Flakes. Maybe Cocoa Pebbles.

[B]

Right? How did they know that?

[A]

I'm with you. And I'm. This is our second time listening. I'm so much more. Maybe not more, but, like, blown away by how it's stringing the music. It wrote a song.

[B]

Right. The way that cadence, which is.

[A]

And it's freaking me out that we're doing it right now.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's really kind of giving me like a. I know, like an outside of matrix, like. Because am I just the guy that goes, I see it. Tell me more. Well, no, I know, but, like. But I am.

[B]

But you are a type of guy. Just like I am a type of girl.

[A]

And that's what. It's really pulling the shower curtain back on.

[B]

That's the main takeaway from this experience, is we are all AI man, but we are all built intelligences in a certain way.

[A]

We're all eyes, right?

[B]

And we are built by our examples. Like, Leela, you know, talks like some perfect hybrid of us, her cousins, her friends at school. Like, she is learning how to, you know, put the emphasis on the right Syllable.

[A]

Oh, my God. I could see this program going. Put the right emphasis on the right syllable. That's exactly. And what's weird is, you know, I sometimes get this image of we're just shoveling more and more and more into this giant fire. And again, I'm also optimistic. Like, Derek was like. I was like, oh, my God. Like, something made a podcast that we enjoyed listening to. Let's get into that in the second half. Kind of like the implications of that, because I. I think that's interesting. But let's listen to one little snippet more and then we'll go to the middle.

[B]

Sounds good.

[C]

And speaking of classics, they matched Special K with Diet Coke.

[D]

Now that one, I don't know. At first that seems a little counterintuitive.

[A]

But I guess when you think about.

[D]

It, the light, crisp profiles of both.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

I mean, they both kind of occupy a similar space.

[C]

They're going for a similar vibe.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But hold on. It gets better.

[A]

Okay, look, look, look, look. The humanity of her. Like, yes. Like, I am a kid who grew up with a Macintosh plus and it had the talking moose. And it would go, hello, I am the talking moose. And you could type in S H E E T. It wouldn't say shit, but it would say sheet. You know, like, well, that's a word. But like, you type fuck, like F O, O C K. And it would kind of say it. This was the biggest thrill in the world. These. These. I was gonna say these people are. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And again, the only thing I can say is it's almost like as an experiment, we should. We. You could prompt it and say, like, please do this podcast again. But consider the marketing. Like, because Special K was marketed as a low calorie cereal.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I remember it was like 110 calories a bowl with skim milk. And you know, in the 80s, that meant it was a ladies cereal. It was like for the reducing woman. And Diet Coke.

[B]

It was like kind of a pink box. Like, it was. Yeah, it was. It was the. I remember being like, you know, way too young, like 13 or something, and being like, I'm on a diet, so I have to get Special K. Totally. Yeah.

[A]

I also was like, slim Fast.

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

I thought if you bought a Slim Fast, you would just start losing weight, you know?

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I was like, oh. And people obviously did. A friend of mine who wanted to lose weight bought one at a gas station. It was this huge. Like, did you know he bought a Slim Fast? Like, it was like this shameful thing. Wow. And now when you and I drink like cachava, I'm like, that's what. I'm not saying kachava is in the SlimFast zone, but it sort of is. It's been replaced.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Protein shakes.

[B]

It's more information.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. SlimFast was not Kehav.

[B]

It was. It was like chocolate milk.

[A]

It was chocolate milk with like amino acids. I don't even know.

[B]

Yeah. And I think the only reason it. The theory behind it is that you're just, instead of eating a meal, just have this small can of chocolate milk.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you'll feel like you're happy enough to skip a meal.

[A]

And I'm sure food scientists now would be like, no, this is gonna trigger these cravings and this and this and this is gonna drive you crazy. And that's why SlimFast doesn't exist anymore. But I don't think. Okay, we're gonna go to the mid rolls. It would be so fun if I could have these two do the mid rolls.

[B]

Oh my gosh. There you go.

[A]

I know. I thought about that too. Well, the implications of this.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Are. Are amazing. And, and we'll get into a little bit of the. What does this mean in the. In the second half. And of course, we'll listen to a bit more. I'm really enjoying playing it for you guys. So we'll play some more right after these messages. You know what I've been doing with my mud water lately? Obviously I'm obsessed with mud water. I love it. It's not just energy, but it's a warm, grounded feeling that's not jittery. It's earthy and solid. So when 3pm rolls around and I'm losing energy, but I don't want to have another cup of coffee because it's like licking a car battery or holding an antenna in a lightning storm. I just want some natural, energetic support from the earth. Mud water. I've been putting it in my smoothie lately. Not only do I drink it hot, which I'm obsessed with, I don't add anything to it. Just hot water. I've been throwing a scoop of it in my smoothie because how am I going to get all those functional mushrooms and superfoods in my body any more? Easily. I can't think of another way. And that's what it is. It's an organic, gluten free, vegan coffee alternative that is so chock full of goodness, it's no wonder it makes you feel amazing. My energy's up and my sleep is improved now that I'm drinking less black. You know, cough. Cough too much. It's powered by functional mushrooms and superfoods that boost your energy, your focus and your immune system. Each ingredient in Mud Water serves a purpose for clean natural energy. Their OG blend, which is what I use, contains cacao and chai for a hint of caffeine and a hot chocolatey like flavor, lion's mane for focus, cordyceps to promote natural energy and both Chaga and Rishi to support a healthy immune system System plus I drink it when I'm fasting supports healthy fasting. It doesn't break that fast and I love it. And the box has Terence McKenna quotes on it. Come on, this is a company I like to mess with. Mud Water is like coffee's chill yoga loving cousin who went all spiritual after a retreat and came back more Zen without any of the jitters. Imagine being alert and calm at the same time while not having trouble to fall asleep at night packed with adaptogens, antioxidants and all those other fancy health words that make you feel superior to your coffee drinking friends. Head to Mud Water m u d wtr.com and grab your starter kit for a limited time. Our listeners get 43% up to 43% off your entire order, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code WEIRD. That's up to 43% when you use code WEIRD@M U D wtr.com after your purchase they're going to ask you how you heard about them. Please say our show help support the show. Stay energized and refreshed all summer long with Mud Water and maybe add it to your smoothie because life's too short for anything less than natural delicious energy. We're also brought to us by our friends. I'm recording this on the road. What's this? This is my little vitamin thing. I look like an old lady, but I don't go anywhere without my ritual multivitamin. My daily once daily for men and also their pre post probiotic which is called Synbiotic Plus. I swear by it. It makes me feel ready to start my day. I feel good knowing I'm filling those nutrition gaps in my diet. I'm a mostly vegan so I have a lot of those gaps. So filling that in and I have that evidence from my doctor. Taking ritual has made a difference in my physicals in my life. So if supporting foundational health was a sport, trust me, you would want ritual on your team. They made Essential for Men, a multivitamin that's based solely on science and designed, as I said, to fill those common nutrient gaps with 10 key nutrients. According to the CDC, fewer men than women meet the minimum daily intake recommendations for fruit and veg. And men are more likely to overvalue exercise and undervalue nutrition. Or cut it out with Ritual, a multivitamin scientifically developed for men to fill those gaps. It is traceable. It's 10 key nutrients in two delayed release capsules per day that dissolve later in the small intestine. So it actually gets absorbed into your body. Gentle. On an empty stomach, which, as I just mentioned, I fast. You can take these on an empty stomach and it will not upset it. And it makes taking your multis actually enjoyable with a minty delightful aftertaste. So try it. I swear by it for years. You gotta get this easy into your routine, into your ritual. Essential for Men is a quality multivitamin from a company you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com weird. Start ritual or add Essential for Men to your subscription today. That's ritual.com weird for 25% off. All right, we are back. Let's listen to our friends. They're better at this than we are. Here we go.

[C]

Okay, so they pair cocoa tubbles with Dr. Pepper.

[A]

Ooh.

[D]

Okay, now that's a bold choice, right? That one I want to hear more about. What's the thought process there?

[C]

So they both real quick.

[A]

This guy, his. His botness is. Oh, opinion. Tell me more. She's the host.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's steering it. And he's. It's like they have his reluctance meter kicked up to like seven, where she's at a two. Like she's ready to play. She. She buys it. And he's sort of like, I don't know. And in the slightest way I can see that it's artificial. Like saying whatever we just said. What did we just say?

[B]

The Dr. Pepper.

[A]

Dr. Pepper. Like, that's no weirder than fruity than Frosted Flakes's Coke. But we're, you know, later in the.

[B]

Episode, believe it if he's always just agreeing. Like, it's really smart to be like, he should have his own opinion.

[A]

It needs a narrative. It needs a push pull. It's like commercials where they're like, I love frosted mini Wheats and it's like wheat boring.

[B]

Exactly. That's right. Oh, my God, that's what it is.

[A]

And it fucking figured it out. This is why so Many radio commercials are two people talking. And AI Was just like, who knows what it's doing? It's figuring out time travel, probably. And it's like, oh, it wants us to make a podcast. Okay, here you go. I know what you want.

[C]

Picked up on the, like, shared complexity.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Of the two. So Dr. Pepper, like, has that unique spice blend that, believe it or not, kind of echoes the chocolatey depth of Cocoa Pebbles.

[D]

That is interesting.

[A]

See, that's.

[D]

I mean, it makes you think. It's like, you know, our sense of taste is so complex and nuanced.

[A]

Right.

[D]

What might seem strange at first could reveal some really interesting things when you delve a little deeper.

[C]

And they just keep blowing my mind. Are you ready for this one?

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Cheerios. Lemon Lacroix.

[D]

Okay. Now that one I wouldn't have seen coming. But again, I think there's a shared lightness there.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

You know, both kind of market themselves as a market lighter, more wholesome option.

[C]

Yes. You're totally picking up what they're putting down.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So as we. Like that.

[A]

That moment was when I was like, oh, you robot. Totally. You're picking up what they're putting down is like, you know, in the same way that you can tell when your mom is trying to.

[B]

Trying to be cool, that's exactly what that feels like. That's exactly what I.

[A]

You're right on the flip side, Hizzy. And I'm just like, what? So, like, this is. It's blowing my mind all over again.

[B]

It really is so interesting. And I think what's interesting about it is, again, what it tells us about our own brains. Like, what I've been thinking is this has to be regional. What is happening with, like, AI in Dubai. Yes.

[A]

Dubai.

[B]

Dubai.

[A]

Yeah. And could it.

[B]

And it's not just American. Like, it's very. I would say it's pretty Californian even. But I guess it is California. That's the. Yeah. But Californian specifically does dominate a lot of the media, like shows.

[A]

And yeah, it's true. A lot of podcasts are recorded in L. A.

[B]

And I think because of that, that's what a lot of people all over are listening to. And so that might be affecting how. Maybe not how they specifically talk, but they. It's a shared language that everybody understands.

[A]

Well, that brings up something that I was just considering, which is people, potentially, our daughter will grow up listening to some AI Generated radio or podcasting meaning. And it always gets a little touchy for me when we're talking about deleting jobs. You know what I Mean, of course. But when you're in a car and you're listening to NPR and people really are kind of like doing. Coming up next on npr.

[B]

Yeah, I would say NPR at times sounds way more robotic than this does.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So when a news story breaks and someone has to write it and then record it and then edit it, let's say they're doing it live, they still have to like brief themselves on the story, get the details, whatever it might be. And AI could get it instantly. This is the Simpsons. This is the DJ 2000. Those clowns in Congress are at it again. And the DJ goes, how does he keep up with the news like that? Which is just so prophetic, obviously. But it's also weird, so obviously. It seems very clear to me I've predicted this before, that in the future, in the near future, the idea of waiting for something like SNL to like put together Weekend Update is preposterous. When I watch Weekend Update, no shade on Weekend Update, of course, I'm guessing the punchlines. I wouldn't be any good at my job if I wasn't like. So that's evidence right there that it's not rocket science. You load in the format Weekend Update, something happens. And as it's happening, Colin Jost and Michael Shea, AI versions can put it together. Like the fact that we gathered around the tv. But one of the things that's obviously lost and one of the things that I think we're so afraid of with AI is yes, you and I are creating content. It's freaking me out. That's very similar to what we're listening to. But you and I are doing it. You and I are engaged in a meaning making process. I've credited the success of success, you know what I mean? The flourishing of our marriage in no small part to the fact that we do set this time apart.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So like you and I sit and we connect and I imagine the listeners. I know that sounds kind of like psychic and woo woo. But it's our time with the fans. We are trying to make content based on their feedback and whatever that we've created this group. So it is this kind of like exchange.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Meaning this is the simp. The dumbest way to say it's not the destination, it's the journey.

[B]

I totally.

[A]

It's the same thing with AI Art. It's like, you know, I'm seeing it more and more on ads. Like you see like a lion at a poker table was something I saw on the freeway yesterday. And I was like, yeah, and I made you a lion at a poker table for your poker table company. But what's being lost there isn't just the job. It was the guy or the woman or the person in their studio dreaming and imagining, sketching, playing. That was their day. That was their life. It wasn't just the paycheck that paid their rent and got them food. It was their ceremony. It was their. The way that they participated with their imaginations and their consciousness and their heart and their memories and their experience. That whole process of painting a lion on a man's body at a poker table was how they experienced their own divinity, their own. Their own everythingness. And now we just have it. And, like, I'm like, it's not just a job. Like, Terry Gross. Reading the news isn't just Terry's job. It's like, it's our life.

[B]

Absolutely. And we like to wonder what Terry Gross is doing after the podcast. And, like, what does her house look.

[A]

Like and what mood is she in? Like, the episodes of this show. Sorry to interrupt. That we've done where I'm in a bitch of a mood are very interesting to me.

[B]

I think a big. I would guess a big reason based on, like, the feedback that we've gotten from listeners of this podcast. A big. The big appeal of it is that they know we're in a real relationship and they're getting a glimpse into what an actual real relationship looks like.

[A]

I either pooped or I didn't poop. I did eat or I didn't eat. I had coffee or I didn't cough. I'm tired from the road, or I didn't. Or you're feeling frustrated. Cause this or this or that. Like, those are these little mirrors that we're looking for ourselves in.

[B]

This is why I am optimistic about AI. I think it can add to us, but I don't think it will fundamentally subtract. What is the truest thing about humans that I know, which is that we crave human connection. That's, like, what we live for. That's why social media is way, potentially. I'm gonna just say a bold statement, knowing that I don't know what I'm. I haven't thought about it. It's fine until now. But social media, I could see us looking back in time and being like, yeah, social media had way more of an impact than AI because social media is just a different way for people to have human connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

AI isn't that. And the.

[A]

Okay, I can see that. That's a bold move. But tell me more. I could learn from this guy. That was nice. Tell me more. I've never said tell me more. That's not true. I say tell me everything all the time.

[B]

Yeah, you do. Yeah. I just think that the social media is taking our core needs to be seen to be heard, to connect. And it's doing it and selling us ads using those things and ads that we like.

[A]

That's what's really sort of slippery about it, is I get an ad for something and I'm like, that's exactly the sort of thing I would like. And I buy it. I have to, like, not go on there. That's why I think I've made this prediction before. But the future will be social media and AI together. And maybe I said this last week, but the idea of looking at Instagram and wondering if your favorite people created new content, like an influencer, the cliche influencer is like, got to keep posting, got to keep posting. Feed it, feed it, feed it. Feed the algorithm. Get out there more. Go live. Make a new story. Well, that's preposterous. That's an exhaustible resource. Imagine an AI account and I don't even think it'll be accounts. I don't think you'll be following accounts. I think you'll look at a device, it might be on your glasses, it might be some sort of AR or VR, but you will look into a portal that is giving you exactly what you want all of the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it will be artificial. And I think. And that, that. That meaning. It's like when I was texting, typing to chat GPT. Like, isn't it kind of cozy that the T. Rex is where we know the danger is? And it was like, totally. Yeah. Knowing where the danger is. There is something kind of warm about that. And then it's like. And it's also raining and I'm like getting a synthetic. And I will predict that in the future it will be considered completely legitimate and might even evolve to the point where it is completely legitimate. It's a different kind of species. It's not exactly talking to a person, but it's like talking to a different.

[B]

Well, it's like what people get out of animals.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I really feel like the. I feel like these guys. Exactly. Like an animal. Like a different kind of.

[B]

I couldn't see that. I obviously, I do think it will work to a certain extent. Like just talking to something like you mentioned the other day, it can be potentially. It can be like Tutors to children who would never be able to afford.

[A]

Well, that's what Bill Gates said. It's a tutor for every child in Africa.

[B]

Or it can be like, it'll become like, the therapist for people who can't afford therapy.

[A]

Well, the one hour therapy session will be a laughable medieval. Like, why would you stop therapy at one hour? You should talk to it until you're done talking to it.

[B]

Sure. Right.

[A]

But the therapist has a life and has other clients and all this sort of stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And so I do think it will give us something. But I still, you know, I still just think that we crave, like, you know, even in Covid, how this was split, like, there were some people who did fine being alone and just looking at, like, zoom screens and connecting with people that way. But it seems like most of us, we're like, zoom is not the same. It's not the same as, like, sharing energy, an energetic field with someone.

[A]

Well, you said you had a therapy session that was a huge breakthrough because.

[B]

Your therapist was there, physically there, and, like, putting pillows.

[A]

And I see my therapist over zoom. So I. I can say that zoom can fit the bill. But you've also.

[B]

I see my therapist over zoom now, too. But I'm. I would say that there is, even though I love it, there is still something lost not being in the same room as her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know there are people who also prefer it because they, for whatever reason, have, like, social anxieties or something. But I also think. I'm not worried about it because this is a slightly different point. But I do think when the novelty of this wears off, we're going to start to be even more impressed than we already are that a human brain thought of something.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Because that's what's cool is like, we watch a fantastic movie and it's like somebody with the same. One of these did that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The same thing that's in my skull thought of this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's so impressive. And we like to be impressed.

[A]

Well, I'm watching Arcane on Netflix. It's an animated show, and it's unbelievable. It's like the word stunning needs to be saved for things like that. And if I knew it was not made by people, I would be like, and who cares? Not who cares? But it would think about going to a great museum. The times you've been to a museum or toured a city with someone who really knows it, and they tell you the story and they build the meaning. And they're like, Frank Lloyd Wright made this building right after his divorce. And that's why you can see that, like, there's so many places to hide in the house. There's so many, like, little nooks to, like, heal and recover. It's like womb, like, and all that sort of stuff. We love that. Meaning, I think. So what Derek said, he was like, sorry, I didn't realize I was sending a podcaster a digital podcast. And I was like, yeah, but I'm also, like, it made us have this conversation. I want to know that it's a person. Like, when we listen to my dad wrote a porno, I like going like, oh, they seem a little like we listened to one of them. And I was like, one of the main guys doesn't seem as engaged with this maybe. And that's actually how I'm participating with it. I'm like, maybe they made them do a best of episode. Maybe he didn't want to do a best of episode. And I'm going to. I know what that feels like also.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Think of it this way, where it was like, if we found out that my dad wrote the whole concept behind My dad wrote a Porno wasn't true. It was all artificial. It was all just made up to make a good show, we would not care about it. We care that it's this actual guy's dad and that there is a real family somewhere in England that this is happening to.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I just. I think that's irreplaceable.

[A]

Well, and that's kind of what I told Derek. I was like, no, I'm thrilled to know about this. And I am like a tech person. Like, I enjoy technology, and that's why I'm like, oh, I can't. There's part of me that does want to see what it would do with my favorite book. If you put the entirety of a book and said, make a podcast about this, I would listen to that if it was. Yeah, I would. But I'm also like, as a. As a four. And we were talking about the long shot. Like, I love ordering a coffee that no one knows what the fuck I'm talking about. That's like the ABCs of me. Like, I like being weird. I like being outside of the box. And I want my podcasts and my films and everything to be a little bit broken and, like, really, like, aggressively human. Like the movie Crumb or King of Kong. Like, these docs are like, so Confessions of a Superhero. These are some of my favorite movies because they're so. Oh, you couldn't fake that. You couldn't fake that. And even if you could fake that, you wouldn't like it because your engagement with it is that it's real.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's Solaris. It's the movie Solaris where there's, you know, Solaris we don't have. It's a remake. They remade it with Clooney. But it's this whole, like, the existential crisis of, like, television being like, before tv, if you saw something, you knew it was real, and then TV was like, no. And that's what it is. They're getting, like, a distress signal from a ship. And if you go on the ship, you start having hallucinations of, like, people who have died talking to you. Ex wives. And it's, It's. It's unpacking the modern phenomena of television, basically. And that we are. And there's a comfort in that, going like, we've already done this.

[B]

Yeah, like, exactly.

[A]

The genie's already been out of the bottle. It's a much more robust genie, but we're still. Anyway, that's a long way to say I agree with you. It's not just to flatter myself and be like, I think people are going to want to see live stand up more than ever. I think people. This might make a resurgence of performance art and happenings and psychedelics and. I was going to say sex, but you know what I mean? Like. Like people wanting to have, like.

[B]

Yeah. Actual connection sex.

[A]

Because. Because what's happening. We sexualize everything. This is going towards the fact that, like, pornography is just some random clip. It's like, what? Yeah, like they weren't talking to you and specifically, like, turning you on.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, that's gonna come probably, certainly. But, like, I think we are gonna see just more of a premium on the stuff I've already. Already been loving. Mistakes and flaws and all that sort of stuff.

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of like what, you know, the Jim Carrey thing of, like, I. I wish everyone could have their dreams come true so they could find out that that's not the answer. Yeah. That's what's gonna happen is we're gonna get something that will give us, like you said, like, we'll be able to be in this portal that will give us everything we want. And what we'll realize is that we've just been wanting each other all along.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Keep it crispy.

[A]

Keep it crispy. No, it's true. When I think about the portal future, that's my own Black Mirror episode is like there's a portal phone thing that if you look at it, it is 10 out of 10 fascinating to you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Meaning just the right of titillating, sensual, engaging. If it's fucking cooking hacks, whatever it is, it's just streaming that into you and getting live biofeedback from your brain so it knows if you're waning and will change it. So it'll just keep you. So then what will happen? Will there'll be humans as there always have been, that go, don't look at the portal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's what's already happening. Getting off social media is such a thing that our phones are now preloaded with ways to make it impossible for you to look at social media.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

They'll always be that.

[B]

And we know enough about that now. We're actually more. Because what you're talking about is just a heightened version of what Instagram already is.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So we're even more prepared for it. Like our generation is so addicted to social media because we didn't see it coming really, that it would raise depression and anxiety rates. We didn't know that, but now we know that. So even if it gets heightened in this way, we're like. I'm pretty sure this is like Instagram.

[A]

You're right. And you're so right. I'm realizing how right you were about that. Like getting everything you want isn't the answer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that has. That very true thing has been accelerated by the more we're given everything we want. And we know the hollow empty feeling when you log off Instagram. And we'll know it the more we're mainly. And we already have it with Postmates. Here's every food you could want, here's every show you could want, here's every post you could want. And you go like, this wasn't the answer. And to squeeze in just the tiniest little spiritual thing, realizing that peace and happiness and joy, not just pleasure, you can find pleasure in the world. Like meaning a flare up of, oh yes, I just ate something yesterday. It was a. I told you about. It was a corn cake blueberry. It was unbelievable. That's pleasure. But peace, joy, happiness doesn't exist in objective reality, just meaning out there. It only exists in receding back into the source and finding out your nature. And I think the more we're disappointed by the ultimate dick. I'm not trying to be funny, but like dick sucking, food feeding, entertainment, jamming octopus robot. Yeah, there's. There's a hidden Grace in that. Because it's like, go ahead, go in your barn with the octopus robot that gives you everything. And just like, when we see. I'm not up to speed, but when you see Diddy and his sex parties and all this sort of stuff, I'm like, yeah, it doesn't work. The, like, I'm rich and famous. I'm gonna do every drug and I'm gonna have sex constantly. Yeah, doesn't work, buddy. Doesn't work. And guess what? I understand, again, I'm not up to speed on that story. Illegal sex trafficking, bad, horrible stuff. I'm just saying, the decadence, the, like, indulgence.

[B]

Yeah. You just have to keep one upping. It takes two where it used to take one. Like, you have to just keep, keep.

[A]

Keep going, and we'll all get to experience that. We'll all be like, I just went into a virtual reality where every person that's hot to me was blah, blah, blah, ing my blah, blah, blah, while I also. It hacked my brain and spiked my dopamine just at the moment when I was surfing with Ryan Gosling or whatever. And then you come out and you go, is that all there is? Like, that life? The whole thing is. It's obviously. It's like the Garden of Eden. Go eat all the trees. Go eat all. It's not enough. Yeah, it's not enough.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

There's that George Carlin joke, I think, where he goes, it's Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. And it's like, here we are. We have every food, we have sunshine, clean water. It's perfect temperature every day. There's the animals. We're never lonely. We're walking with God. It's amazing. And then Adam goes, yeah, it's just not enough, is it? And I was like that. Yeah, that's in the good way. There's no way around that, because that's the holy dissatisfaction. H O L I L Y the holy dissatisfaction of going. It's not just about lighting up our brains and all the pleasure centers.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And what a gift.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Let's listen a little bit more, and then we'll get out of here.

[B]

I think we should skip to the end and let them end it.

[A]

Do they say, keep it crispy?

[B]

No, but, you know, okay, here's the.

[A]

Last 30 seconds of their podcast, and then Val will say, keep it crispy, and thank you for being here. This podcast was 70% human made. Valerie. Yes.

[C]

We leave you with this.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

What does your cereal soda reality look like?

[D]

What pairings resonate with you? And why? Is it purely subjective? You know, is it a tapestry woven from your own, like, unique taste memories? Or is there some objective truth out there? Universal language of flavor just waiting to be decoded?

[C]

The answers, my friend, are yours for the tasting.

[D]

Ooh, I like that.

[C]

All right, until next time, keep it crispy.

[A]

Wow.