We Made It Weird #211

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes — "We Made It Weird #211" (March 21, 2025)

Episode Overview

In "We Made It Weird #211," Pete Holmes and his wife, Valerie, invite listeners into the intimate and delightfully meandering world of their weekly check-in. The episode explores secret weirdness, personal therapy breakthroughs, family dynamics, spirituality, psychedelic experiences, and comedic banter about everyday life. Structured as a relaxed and open-ended yet insightful conversation, Pete and Val discuss everything from the complexities of healing family relationships to profound moments of connection at spiritual retreats, all the way to the joys of shaking out trauma (literally) and poetic revelations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast Names, Tests, and Cozy Weirdness (05:27 – 16:00)

• Podcast Name Brainstorming: The hosts riff on podcast titles, riffing off names like "This Playdate" and the quirks of finding new podcasts.
• Medical Tests are ‘Gym Class for Adults’: Pete and Val share their humorous experiences blowing into lung capacity monitors and taking hearing tests at the doctor's office. Pete likens them to fun, casual games; Val shares her competitive streak and the ways they game the system for better scores.
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: "It's like the gym of the doctor. Like gym class. You know what I mean?" (08:32)
• Bookstore Poop Phenomenon: The infamous urge to poop in bookstores resurfaces—a recurring 'weirdness' discussed by the couple and detailed with hilarious analogies (e.g., "Bowels and Nobles," "Barnes and Pooples").
  • Notable Quote:
    Val: "You know how we have this thing...about how bookstores make you [poop]?" (11:59)
    Pete: "It's the feeling of ‘I need to poop’ became a place." (11:27)

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2. Cheese, Childhood Beverages, and Cultural Observations (16:00 – 23:00)

• Why Some Cultures Don't Do Cheese: Pete and Val muse about cheese, joke about China’s traditional lack thereof, and reflect on Western culinary obsessions.
• School Lunch Memories: Tangents on the horror of "surprise milk" in thermoses and the cran-something juice craze of the 1980s-90s.
• Cheese Invention Origin Story: Pete humorously retells the legend of cheese being discovered thanks to a desert traveler and sloshing goat’s milk.
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: “Cheese is to milk what Skittles is to sugar. How'd you do it?” (20:51)

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3. Therapy Breakthroughs & Family Dynamics (23:42 – 45:00)

• Deep Therapy Work: Pete shares therapy progress—gaining vocabulary around trauma, abuse, and boundaries, specifically regarding his relationship with his mother. He likens healing to escaping family patterns ("Rita Hayworth poster in your cell" — 23:47) and notes the bittersweet distance it creates.
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: “Sometimes a sign that your therapy’s going well is that the relationship with your parents feels harder, chunkier.” (26:07)
• Changing the Healing ‘Metric’: Valerie urges Pete not to see smoother phone calls as the only evidence of healing (“the report card is not how well you handle these phone calls” — 27:50), emphasizing accepting ongoing difficulty as natural.
  • Notable Quote:
    Valerie: "It might always be hard, or at the very least, it might get harder before it gets easier." (27:45)
• Being With What Is: The pair discuss reframing pain and grief as portals, not problems to be ‘fixed,’ and learning to expand their capacity to sit with discomfort and overwhelming emotions.
  • Notable Quote:
    Valerie: “My capacity to be with it can grow. And that’s actually the only thing we really have control over.” (30:11)
• Self-care and Overwhelm: Valerie describes her “babushka mode” (wrap in blankets, tea, and gentle crying) and the importance of comfort during distress. Pete recounts the need to withdraw, put his feet above his heart, and self-soothe—normalizing real, moist, hand-covered-in-tears cries.
• Adult Self vs. Child Self: They explore how inner work builds reliability between the adult and child selves, teaching the ‘child’ to rely on the adult for unmet needs rather than recreating old patterns with parents.

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4. Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a Tool for Growth (39:00 – 51:00)

• Discovering NVC: Pete and Val discuss Marshall Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication and how it reframes emotional language ("I feel sad that my need for connection isn’t being met" instead of "You’re neglecting me"). Pete relays initial resistance to the term but comes to see its value.
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: “Turns out it’s not a joke—it’s f*ing beautiful. You’re allowed to say, ‘I’m feeling scared that my need for autonomy isn’t being met.’” (40:25)
• Breaking Family Patterns: They recognize ingrained family language (“neglected”) as judgmental and how NVC moves them toward self-responsibility and healthy boundaries.
• Practical Examples: Pete recounts practicing NVC with Valerie and Leela, especially around everyday frustrations (e.g., forgotten shoes before school), emphasizing the nuance of when to speak up and when to metabolize feelings oneself.
  • Notable Quote:
    Val: “I do think the key to a healthy relationship...is not making everything a thing.” (51:08)

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5. Spiritual Practice, Rupert Spira Retreat & Shaking Out Trauma (58:16 – 67:13)

• Rupert Spira Retreat Recap: Pete shares the joy of attending Rupert Spira’s retreat, describing a powerful collective energy among seekers of true nature, intergenerational wisdom, and “a dopamine detox and spotlight of loving kindness.” (58:44–59:01)
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: “The vibration of that group...I could cry. It’s off the charts.” (59:04)
• Trauma Release Exercise: Pete details learning trauma release exercises from his friend Tatiana—lying in a butterfly position, exhausting the hamstrings, and allowing spontaneous body ‘shaking’ to discharge tension. He encourages listeners to give it a try for embodied healing.
  • Notable Quote:
    Pete: “Unlike dance or exercise, this is low effort, high efficacy—your body is thrilled.” (62:51) Val: “This is the thing animals do...they shake their bodies and the energy of the feeling just gets stuck and stored in our body, and [shaking] gets rid of it.” (66:02)

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6. The Mushroom Trip: Surrender and Divine Play (67:13 – 80:01)

• Set & Setting: Pete and Val describe a recent, intentional mushroom ceremony, with more than Pete’s previous doses and strong group support.
• Journey from Fear to Bliss: Pete experiences initial resistance (“Why would I want to leave this plane?... I love this plane” — 68:54) and a rapid shift as Valerie helps him move to a private, outdoor setting. There, Pete surrenders wholly to the experience, feeling an ecstatic, almost romantic connection with nature, especially a “muppet tree.”
• Encountering the Divine: Pete’s experience becomes poetry—flirtatious, nonsexual but deeply intimate, as he perceives ‘God’ everywhere: “I kept being like, I don’t know what you’re talking about” (78:17) and “Everywhere I looked was the face of God” (72:34).
  • Notable Quotes:
    • Pete: “I was a wave splashing against the rock of creation and just delighting. Don’t forget—ta-da!” (74:51)
    • Pete: “Everywhere I looked was absolute bliss.” (71:18)
• Integration and Insight: The trip highlights the importance of incarnation and full engagement with life: “Don’t forget we wanted to incarnate...and kiss and eat ourselves.” (73:52)
• Relating to Everyday Bliss: Pete connects retreat and mushroom revelations to Rupert Spira's teachings, encouraging listeners to recognize peace and happiness as their true nature, even in the midst of daily frustrations.

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7. Poetry, Merging with Nature, and Philosophy of Love (75:22 – 80:13)

• Valerie Reads "Worship": Valerie reads her poem "Worship," echoing Pete's mystical experience and the urge to physically merge with nature—"You are not up there. You are down here."
  • Notable Quote:
    Val: “The earth is so delicious. I devolve into an animal on hands and knees...You are not up there. You are down here.” (76:07)
• On Falling in Love with the World: Both connect their experiences to that of being newly in love—how presence heightens appreciation for even the most ordinary things.
• Rupert Spira’s Philosophy: Pete shares Rupert’s line: “Love isn’t relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship. You vanish together into the thing you both always and already were.” (80:01)
• Living from True Nature: The episode closes with encouragement to access this loving, peaceful awareness in the minutiae of life. Pete points out how, after these experiences, even losing a child’s shoe can be a reminder to return to one’s true, peaceful self.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• (08:32) Pete: "It's like the gym of the doctor...The hearing test is your favorite. You would...Anyone would love it."
• (11:27) Pete: "It's the feeling of 'I need to poop' became a place."
• (26:07) Val: "Sometimes the relationship [with parents] gets...chunkier...as you heal."
• (30:11) Val: "My capacity to be with it can grow. And that's actually the only thing we really have control over."
• (40:25) Pete: "Turns out it's not a joke—it’s f*ing beautiful...’I'm feeling scared that my need for autonomy isn’t being met.’"
• (51:08) Val: "I do think the key to a healthy relationship...is not making everything a thing."
• (59:04) Pete: "The vibration of that group...I could cry. It's off the charts."
• (62:51) Pete: "Unlike dance or exercise, this is low effort, high efficacy—your body is thrilled."
• (67:30) Pete: "I am such an introvert...I'm as happy as a boy can be."
• (72:34) Pete: "Everywhere I looked was the face of God."
• (74:51) Pete: "I was a wave splashing against the rock of creation and just delighting. Don't forget—ta-da!"
• (76:07) Val: from her poem "The earth is so delicious. I devolve into an animal on hands and knees...You are not up there. You are down here."
• (80:01) Pete: "Rupert Spira says: Love isn’t relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship..."

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Conclusion

This episode blends offbeat comedy and warm personal rapport with deep explorations of healing, communication, spiritual experience, and human connection. Pete and Valerie weave lightness and depth with skill, making room for both fart jokes and cosmic insights. The energy is playful, reflective, and inviting, perfect for long-time “weirdos” and thoughtful newcomers alike.

Closing Note:
As always, Pete and Val sign off with a warm embrace of their unique, vulnerable brand of weirdness. Or, as Pete says in closing: “Keep it crispy.” (82:51)

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

This is a classique.

[B]

You said it. I usually say it.

[A]

Well, you usually say this is one of the best episodes ever.

[B]

I loved it. I did love it.

[A]

I loved it too. My God, it was effortless, effervescent.

[B]

Yeah. And we also covered a lot. Yeah, yeah, Effervescent and effortless. And we covered a lot. A lot of good therapy, a lot of good laughs, a lot of good spiritual stuff and just some good old fashioned updates on some stories like what's been going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm glad you guys are here. I will tease that the second half we talk about a really great mushroom trip and the Rupert retreat and all this fun stuff. So don't miss out on the second part of the show. In the first part, a lot of therapy stuff, but also a lot of laughs too. So yeah, just a little, little table of contents there. Thanks for being here, PeteHomes.com for all my tour dates. And I'm not, I'm not even going to say anything more. If you like the show, try a pizza pick. We're going to run like 2 min ads here and then we'll get into the episode and enjoy. Thanks for being here, Valerie.

[A]

Get into it.

[B]

Oh, wait, that's not what we do. No, that's not what we do. You can just leave those. That was a mistake.

[A]

Don't get into it quite yet.

[B]

Don't get into it.

[A]

If you want. Support the show.

[B]

Support the show. Katie, roll that beautiful. That's what we do. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. I recently threw away all of my weed because it was too damn strong. That's true. When all you want to do is relax, unwind, get silly, have fun. Modern weed products strap you to a rocket like a confused chimp and blast you into outer space where you're too out of it to follow the plot of a movie, hold a conversation, or no, it's not a good idea to eat 17 pizzas. Then you. The day after. I'm cloudy, I got the weed hangover, I'm foggy, there's a malaise and you feel like your head is full of cobwebs because the weed that you took was designed to tranquilize a gorilla. Well, thankfully now we can just take the edge off, get a little giggly with our friends while keeping our feet on the earth thanks to our friends at dad Grass I am obsessed with their new leisure drinks. As you know, I'm California sober. I don't drink alcohol, but thanks to their leisure drinks I can be at a party with a can of something cold and delicious, taking a little edge off and having some fun. Getting a little bit silly. And it ships legally to all 50 states if you're over 21. This is too good to be true. But it's true. They're delicious sparkling cans of Yuzu flavored goodness that finally offer a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body and mind with friends. I've been putting them out at parties, I've been sipping them with my family movie nights and because they're just a little lightness, not a trust, fall into a black hole of oblivion where I can laugh a little easier watching the Parent Trap and eating pizza with my family and just enjoy it a whole lot more. 3 grams of THC, 6 grams of CBD, 2200 MG of Lion's Mane per can. It's mild dose and sessionable for a mellow experience. Happy and relaxed without the hangover. Stackable for a bigger buzz. And it's fast acting, meaning you're gonna know how you feel. 10, 20 minutes. It's not nine hours like other edibles. Get leisure drinks in all of Dadgrass products including joints and gummies. Kids go to dadgrass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20% off. Try the leisure drink dad grass.com weird use promo code weird for 20% OFF. We're also brought to us by our friends at Living Libations. If you guys are fans of this show and want a easy and fun way to support it, go to livinglibations.com and get something small or do what we did and redo your entire beauty cabinet, medicine cabinet and your health and beauty products. Because Living Libations is an amazing company that makes some of the most effective, effective, badass and premium products that are made with ingredients you can actually recognize and pronounce. Because the stuff you put on your skin gets into your body and so much stuff that you buy at the convenience stores is filled with toxic chemicals that were never intended for humans. Living Libations isn't like that. Their best skin ever moisturizer. Which by the way, I've had the same bottle of their best skin ever moisturizer for years. It lasts forever, it feels great and it brings out a healthy natural glow to your skin. Both Val and I use that. They have deodorant, they have baby Products. They have stuff for your teeth, for your gums. They have basic stuff all the way to top tier stuff. Get some living libations in your life and replace the random chemical nightmare that you're smearing on your skin and doing who knows what to your body. It is awesome. It's a great gift. And a great gift you can give yourself. 15% off by going to livinglibations.com weird. That's 15% [e-mail] weird. All right, everybody, we're so glad you're here.

[A]

Valerie, say it again now you may get into it.

[B]

Podcast. Save it for the podcast. Save it for the podcast. Save it for the pod. Turn your phone off.

[A]

Welcome to Save it for the Podcast.

[B]

Save it for. Oh, Save it for the podcast.

[A]

Great name.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

My friend just told me that she has a friend who has a podcast. I honestly can't even remember which friend told me this. She has a friend who has a podcast called this Playdate. And I think that's a great name.

[B]

This play date.

[A]

Yeah. Which. And it's. I'm guessing just based on the name that it's like moms complaining about, like, parenting.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I like it. I don't know. I really. We've wandered into a room where I'm like, I don't know what the a good name for, because you ever go on a podcast app and you just don't know what to type in? Like, I'm waiting for the Netflix of podcasts because, like, I know some Spotify Apple will push certain ones.

[A]

I don't have this problem. I have too many podcasts.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. And then I saved them. So they're all in my library. So then I just, like, I don't like. For example, I found out Amy Poehler has a podcast. All right, subscribe. And now that's just in the mix. So it's constantly reminding me that that's.

[B]

One of the podcasts that you have notifications on.

[A]

No, no, no. I just mean when I open. No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I love. This is notifications.

[B]

How hard I love Valley Heat. I almost turn podcast app notifications on.

[A]

Oh, that's cute. Where it would be like, new episode of Valley Heat.

[B]

Yeah. Because you never know when a Valley Heat's gonna hit you.

[A]

I'm really excited to listen to his episode.

[B]

Yeah. It's this week. This is the. We made a weird compendium. Compendium.

[A]

That's not a. Is that a thing?

[B]

Superseding this supersedes. This doesn't superimpose this receeds based on my inhale. Am I healthy?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is that good? I feel like that's a dead man's.

[A]

Inhale, so at least a smoker's.

[B]

It sounds.

[A]

I just had to do the lung test.

[B]

I did that at Dr. Israel's.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Should we say our doctor's name? I guess it doesn't matter.

[A]

Good luck finding which Dr. Israel. It's not the one you think it is.

[B]

What does that mean? Beth Israel.

[A]

Yeah. Or like, you know, there's just so many.

[B]

Wait a minute. Beth Israel is a person.

[A]

I know. I. The amount of times I'm searching for our doctor And I put Dr. Beth Israel.

[B]

Dr. Beth Israel.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

No, it's not Beth Israel.

[A]

Yeah. And like, I. She was like, blow as hard as you can, as long as you can.

[B]

Yeah. But it's not. There's no resistance. So if it was like a whistle.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It would be like. You got it.

[A]

So cocky.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I was watching it just be consistently, like an inch under the breath. It's supposed to be.

[B]

I just did the hearing test. We've been getting tested. The hearing test. I'm gonna say for all of the tests, you can get tested at a doctor's office that are, like, casual tests, kind of, like, fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like the gym of the doctor. Like gym class. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, we're gonna do some gym class shit. The hearing test is your favorite. You would. Anyone would love it. You go in a padded room. Yeah, let me close this door. And it's dead quiet. And you put on headphones, but they're not the sound. They're to block the sound. It's, like, muffled. And then they play pings. And this hyper vigilant Jason Bourne motherfucker.

[A]

Me. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, killing the hearing test.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I'm like, not only do I hear it, I can tell you how dangerous it is, but they play them on either side. But it's. It's really tempting because it goes like, bing, bing, bing, but then, you know, there. And you're supposed to click a clicker every time you hear it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, based on the rhythm, there's one after it. And you could cheat and just be like, yeah, I'm sure there was one pattern recognition test. I just made that. This.

[A]

Yeah, I just made that.

[B]

This. This is now a pattern recognition test.

[A]

I just made that. This.

[B]

I just made that.

[A]

This is also a great podcast name.

[B]

I just made that. This Save it. Hold up.

[A]

I. Tests.

[B]

Yeah. You blew into the thing, and it sucks.

[A]

Yeah. And I wasn't.

[B]

If you don't know what we're talking about, there's no. You're blowing into a thing, and everyone thinks they're good at blowing.

[A]

Yeah. Some more than others.

[B]

But it's like, imagine blowing into a. A toilet paper roll.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're just like. And then there's nothing.

[A]

I know. You want a little resist.

[B]

You want it to be this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's not. It's. And then you're like, oh, I'm the Marlboro Man.

[A]

When I first went for it, I just went for distance. So, like, she stopped me. Like, I. And she was like, nope. And she's like, look at the chart. It has to jump up. You didn't blow hard enough. And I was like, man, I was going for distance.

[B]

It's brutal.

[A]

No, I was gonna say I.

[B]

And then they're like, you're. You're okay. They were like, you're 33. Your age is like, 33.

[A]

Oh, they didn't tell me that.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

That's great. But maybe that's because it's bad. Eye tests are also like that cozy kind of ear. I love going to the options.

[B]

Brian Regan has the best bet where he's just like, oh, that's the doctor. Right up to you.

[A]

Yes. Oh, my God, it's so true. It's asmr.

[B]

Better it's. Or worse.

[A]

Why is it so quiet? So dark and dark and. Oh, I love them.

[B]

It's the feeling of I need to poop. Became a place.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's. I need to poop Got struck by lightning and became a room, a whole room. And there's a doctor in it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That goes like this.

[A]

Oh, my God, I love it.

[B]

It's poop.

[A]

Okay, but you ever take a poop.

[B]

And you can hear it coming out. It's like that.

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay, you just crossed the line. No, but you know how we have this thing and we've mentioned it on this podcast many times about, like, how bookstores make you.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Barns and pooples.

[A]

How, you know, playing hide and seek.

[B]

Bowels and Nobles Bowels. And I'm going to go to bowels and Nobles Bowels and. No, no pulse.

[A]

No pulse.

[B]

There's a dead person in there pooping. Okay, there's a zombie pooping.

[A]

But that's. That for the first time I ever in my life. And maybe this is just a thing that does get mentioned all the time. But Sean Hayes mentioned that on the Smartless podcast. He was like. He said to them, he was like.

[B]

Barnes and Noble poops.

[A]

Yeah. He was like, do bookstores make you guys have to poop? And they. Both. Those fuckers were like, no, I don't know what you're talking about.

[B]

Let me get a peg real fast to lower it. Jason Bateman.

[A]

I know.

[B]

He looks like he's holding in a poop. Okay. I'm joking. I'm just saying. Because based on that, it makes me think he's holding in a poop. That's what I feel.

[A]

I know. I was like.

[B]

Because if he was like, I always poop, I'd be like, he looks like a guy that's got a clean bowel. Like, I'm basing it on that. And I don't like that he doesn't know. And Will Arnett.

[A]

I just am.

[B]

Come on, guys.

[A]

Both of them would say if they knew what he was talking about.

[B]

Oh, no, I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why I'm like. There's a tightness that I don't like that. That implies.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's also like. It feels disembodied or something. Like, I'm like, what?

[A]

I think that's it. Yeah.

[B]

It also.

[A]

It's disembodiment.

[B]

It's hide and go seek poops, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because everyone's playing hide and go seek in a Barnes and Noble.

[A]

Obviously.

[B]

It's just how it's what you're doing, whether or not you know it. And you know what home base is, like, where you can, like, regroup. It's the Starbucks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you go back in the store, and then you're kind of hiding from everyone that's in there.

[A]

Yeah. You know what the difference could be is, and there's someone in an aisle.

[B]

You don't go down that aisle.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

You're playing hide and go seek.

[A]

It's not this. I know people are gonna say that it's this because I was about to. But, like, it's maybe the people who get the coffee at the bookstore that have to poop.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

But it's not that. Because I've had to do it my whole life.

[B]

I didn't start drinking coffee until coziness High school.

[A]

Yeah. It's a specific type of coziness, and.

[B]

It'S hide and go seek poops. If you don't. You've never had to poop. Like, you need to poop when you're hiding in the cabinet underneath the Sink.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

That's where poops come.

[A]

But that's because that's cozy and quiet.

[B]

No, we've probably talked about this, but this is why dogs look at you when they're pooping. They want you to. This is also why I sometimes pretend I'm a sniper.

[A]

Yeah. Because you're hiding in a.

[B]

It's like you're up high, you're quiet, and you're protected. And that's what a wolf. That's why our dog is like, will you watch for a second? And they say that that's when motorcycle men get killed by, like, mountain lions. It's when they're peeing.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Because the mountain lion is like, oh, he's draining.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's not looking.

[A]

He's draining in his main vein. And then the above. Or is it a mountain lion has a sunglasses on, but it's those kind.

[B]

That don't really block the sun. They're like Venetian blinds.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Is that what you pictured?

[A]

Purple?

[B]

Yeah, it's like a hot purple.

[A]

Yes. But now I'm picturing cartoon cheetah or leopard.

[B]

Chester Cheetah.

[A]

No, different.

[B]

Someone who does think it's easy to be cheesy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

What if all the other cheetahs are like, it is easy. It's so, so easy being cheesy.

[A]

You found the one cheetah who doesn't think it's easy to be cheesy, and.

[B]

They put him on the billboard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way, is there anything easier than being cheesy?

[A]

That it's incredibly difficult for me to not be cheesy.

[B]

As a mostly veggie. I'll tell you, it's so difficult to not be cheesy.

[A]

Yeah. The default is cheesy.

[B]

The whole world. Name a culture. China. We did it. That doesn't really fuck with cheese.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

But that. That has got to be over now.

[A]

That's got to be the. The actual worst thing about China.

[B]

I just shout out to my friend Steve O. Harvey, who used to go, no cheese in Chinese food. No cheese and Chinese food. Which was a great bet. But like. And then we were like, Crab Rangoon is. But that's American Chinese. But I guarantee. I can't guarantee. But I'm pretty sure. I can't be pretty sure. But I'm fairly sure if you go to China, you can get cheese.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

In every.

[A]

I mean, there's McDonald's.

[B]

That's what I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cheese is the first thing that nobody's going, like, we're losing our culture. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're just like, no, cheese belongs to the earth. It does not any culture. And it is culture. You know how cheese got invented? They say how? There was a guy who. This guy. You know when your mom would put. You're gonna love how this fucking guy. This fucking guy is. I think you know when your mom would put milk in your thermos, like, what's up? What's up?

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Like, for your lunchbox. For me, it was like, what? My mom would never put water in my thermos. Like, that was in the. In the 80s.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That was like giving up. Like, it was a travesty.

[A]

We didn't drink water.

[B]

That's what I mean. Yeah, Water. What?

[A]

No, that's a recent thing.

[B]

It's a recent thing. And so is pooping clean. Because you need that with water.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

So my mom would usually have orange juice. Cran apple. Remember the cran something wave of the 80s and 90s? Love if go back to someone in the 80s and 90s and tell them that crayon something isn't the thing anymore. No one wants it.

[A]

I know that's true.

[B]

If you went into anybody's house in 1989 and said, give me a cran, you could say any. Any fruit.

[A]

Cran Orange that have it.

[B]

Cran apple. Cran Raspberry. Yeah, Cran Raspberry was the shit. And then we found out that it was like cran soda.

[A]

Yeah. It was like a billion grams of sugar.

[B]

You know where we found that out?

[A]

Where?

[B]

I believe it was in Mean Girls. She's doing a cranberry juice fast. Oh, isn't. Isn't she?

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Or maybe that was Mean Girls, the TV show. It doesn't matter. So anyway, something. Leave it, Leave it. Walk out of this movie.

[A]

Okay, I'm out. I'm out.

[B]

Crayon. Yeah. What? Oh. So my mom would usually put a crayon something. An unholy cranberry.

[A]

Ocean Spray.

[B]

Ocean Spray was everything.

[A]

Ocean Spray was life.

[B]

And so was Clearly Canadian. If we want to talk about other things that have just gone the way of the dodo we loved. Clearly Canadian.

[A]

Think I had.

[B]

It was clear soda.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everything that went away in the end, it was because we found out it was soda.

[A]

And I stand by that.

[B]

Disco. Turns out it was soda Bell Bottom Ska. That was Soda Ska was Soda Ska was Soda Ska is what? Soda sounds like someone was looking at carbonated bubbles and going, it's funny that you say that. I was just Talking about ska two days ago.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

No. Scott. Sorry. There's got to be a guy who loves Scott so much, they call him Scott.

[A]

Our friend Scott.

[B]

Love Scott.

[A]

Yes. Our friend Scott, like, was in ska bands.

[B]

That's embarrassing.

[A]

The orange. No, I think that's.

[B]

I was. I was in a PETA band.

[A]

PETA.

[B]

PETA.

[A]

Oh, because they're so close. Yeah.

[B]

It's a little suspicious that you're like, but your name is Peter. Yeah. No reason. Like, you're just backing into a Scott club and your name is Scott. Get it? Get over it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, my mom would occasionally put milk in my thermos. And I remember even as a kid being like, this is. This is not okay.

[A]

No. There's something about the metal. Like, the metal inside. The stainless steel inside.

[B]

Well, that's a modern thermos. This is a plastic inside. This is he. Man.

[A]

Okay. I. I was born in 89.

[B]

No, I know. And this is encased. Yeah, this is. This is a good area for how our age difference is going to show up. It's encased in a hot, red plastic lunchbox. So it's cooking in there, and there's milk. Drink it. And I'm like, you also don't know it's milk? As a grownup, you'd, of course, like, look or smell as a kid. You're just drinking and, like, it's surprise milk. Which of all the milks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Surprise milk is the worst milk.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I'm drinking surprise milk. This is how cheese was invented. They think they don't know, but they. One theory, or maybe one story is that there was a man, this fucking guy, had a canteen, and he put. I think it was goat's milk in it. He's riding across the desert and something about the heat and the movement of the camel. So it's sloshing and it's heating. He goes for a drink, and out comes basically, like, cottage cheese. It's disgusting. It's rough. So it's not the cheese that we know.

[A]

That's terrible.

[B]

Cheese is sort of like cheese is to milk what Skittles is to sugar. How'd you do it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What I'm saying is it takes this thing that's kind of earthy and strange.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sugar isn't that strange, but, you know, it's granular and whatever, and you somehow transform it like. Like a wheel of cheddar cheese. Like, you got this from milk. Milk.

[A]

I know. And how are there so many different types?

[B]

So many.

[A]

So many different types.

[B]

Blue cheese. What did you Do. To blue cheese. Did you tell a ghost story to regular cheese.

[A]

Or. A very sad story.

[B]

Yeah, that's better. Gorgonzola. You. You kept gaslighting it. Yeah, you told it.

[A]

It broke it.

[B]

Gorgonzola is a traumatized cheese, and it tastes amazing.

[A]

It does.

[B]

It's like the veal of cheese.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Something bad happened to that cheese. And it's so good.

[A]

So good. Remember? So remember this morning I gave Lila some p. Apple, and she spit it out and was like, this tastes terrible. This tastes like wine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I really don't know how she knows what wine tastes like, but she's right.

[B]

She's like fermented fruit. It fermented.

[A]

She also one time.

[B]

How does she know that?

[A]

But this is. She's.

[B]

We don't drink wine.

[A]

Special skill for this. We don't drink wine in the house.

[B]

We don't drink wine out of the house.

[A]

I. Yeah, I don't even drink wine. Like, I drink, but I don't drink wine.

[B]

That was, like, one of her past lives. She was like, what is this wine?

[A]

And one time she was eating a popsicle that was like a watermelon Popsicle that was homemade. That was a little old. And she was like, this tastes like eel. And I know what she means. There is a type of way that watermelon, when it's, like, not really ripe anymore, is kind of fishy. Yeah, but how does she know? Why did she say eel?

[B]

Eel.

[A]

Like, she doesn't. I didn't even know she knew what an eel was.

[B]

Yeah. That's weird.

[A]

It's. I'm telling you.

[B]

Yeah, that's weird.

[A]

Or she has, like. She's like, a savant for, I don't know, Taste similes.

[B]

Yeah. You know, this is weird. It brought up. You said this yesterday to me super casually, and it kind of spooked me, to be honest, but I was like, I had all this therapy yesterday, and I'm doing a lot of heavy work. Not. Not horrible, but, like, moving. I'm helping a friend move, and it's me. Yeah. And, like, there's no pizza. It's rough. But making all this progress and getting, like, a vocabulary for my past. And I really. I'm really priming you to say the thing you said about how sometimes relationships feel harder. Do you remember that? And that. That's a. Oh, yes. Okay. I don't want to steal your punchline, because it was very meaningful to me. So I don't know if anybody that does therapy knows the phenomenon of, like, you're. You're it's almost like breaking out of a prison or something. And. Meaning you have all these. You have your Rita Hayworth poster in your cell, and you're digging behind it. Even though that's not what's happening, there is something that kind of feels like I'm breaking family patterns and I'm escaping them, and I'm looking at them honestly and not with any malice. There's forgiveness and love as well, but there's a lot of like, holy shit. What the fuck? So I had a lot of that, and it's starting to stack up. It's actually pretty exciting. If it was a movie. If you're watching a movie about my therapy, you'd be like, oh, some of these things are finally.

[A]

Yes, it's happening.

[B]

Connecting.

[A]

It's moving.

[B]

And you get more comfortable with words. I'm gonna say that I need to say this, whether or not these are my words. But you get more comfortable with, like, trauma, abuse, inappropriate, wrong, wounding, all that sort of stuff. And then my mom called me that night, and I had just talked to her, and you were like. And I was like, it's like she heard me doing therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You were like, yeah, I think that is what it is. And I was like. Like I was not chill about you casually being like, yeah, that's some telepathy tape stuff. She feels you. And my mom, in the phone call, said, I feel this gap. And she's always talking about that. I've been thinking about that so much. Like, how to appropriately respond to that without being uncaring because you want to be like, yeah, there is a gap. Like the way we were when I was a child, that's gone. And that's sad, and I'm sorry, but what you're feeling is my need for autonomy, independence, and a healthy boundary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, it feels like a gap. You don't want a gaslighter and be like, what gap?

[A]

Right. No, I think. I think there is sort of a version where you don't rescue her, but you are compassionate. So it's sort of like, I know things are different between us, and I know that that is really painful.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, that's.

[A]

You know, it just. It is like. Like how we would do with Leela where it's like, the boundary stays. But I know it's really hard.

[B]

Right. You know, you can't fix it, but you can honor it and be gentle about it, but you can't. It's hard. So you said sometimes a sign that your therapy's going well is that the real.

[A]

It's harder to be with your parents.

[B]

Sometimes the relationship gets. Yeah. Chunkier.

[A]

It's actually because you. You sort of have. If you don't mind me saying, I think you wouldn't. You have an element to your healing that I think might be specifically masculine. I'll say not, like for men, but it's sort of a masculine approach. And it's also very enneagram3, which is achieving.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You said this last night. It meant so much to me.

[A]

Yeah. Where you. Because you said, like, I, I. You said something like, I just. I'm doing all of this work and I want to feel like I'm healed and I can do this. And, like, why? And it's just such an emphasis on, like, why can I. Why do I get so upset by this phone call? Why does this still upset me? I'm doing all this work. And you've sort of always had that as long as I've known you.

[B]

Yeah. Just to give a little backstory there we had. My mom and I had a totally fine conversation, and I still felt totally lit up by, like, all of these crazy, difficult feelings. And I was like, what?

[A]

What? Yeah.

[B]

And then you.

[A]

Yeah. And I just sort of said, like, what if the game isn't like, if you do all the right things, then all of a sudden these phone calls will be easy? It's like, it might always be hard, and in fact, more you heal and see what has happened. It might be harder, or at the very least, it might get harder before it gets easier. But that game of, like, my report card is how well I handle these phone calls.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is just adding extra stress and pressure onto an already overloaded system.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you have to change the metric. It's not pass fail sometimes. I did. So I've been doing other Ship, which is a breathwork app. This isn't an ad. I am going to reach out to them because I like partnering with people, blah, blah, but they're great. And I was doing all of these grief breath works because I was so shook. Again, I want to be very clear. Nobody did anything wrong. It wasn't like a hot. It was a normal conversation. And afterwards, the cognitive dissonance of, like, doing this work and also, and, like, yearning for the same thing, but knowing, like, having to say to my parts, my child part. Like, you're craving connection, intimacy, love, all this stuff. Like, let's get it a different way. Like, you're not gonna be without. Just trust me to get it for you. Like, let's do it this way. So difficult. Feels like grief. Did some breath work and they were, like, very clear. Like, grief and loss and all that sort of stuff isn't a hole. It's like a portal. It's like, it's not something to be sewn up, something to go move through. And I know we hear all that stuff, but when you're feeling it and someone says that, you're like, oh, I'm real. Fix it, Felix.

[A]

Yeah, I can fix it, but. But everyone is, I think, because it's so uncomfortable. It's like, it's very much a good news, bad news situation because it's sort of like, I know your brain wants to fix this to alleviate the pain so quickly, but there is actually more pain being cultivated in the efforting of resisting it. Fixing it in some ways is sort of resisting what is. So the good news is that actually, if you put your effort into just being with what is, and being like, this may always be hard and messy, but my capacity to be with it can grow. And that's actually the only thing that we really have control over.

[B]

That's right. What a letdown. How disappointing. But it's true. It's great.

[A]

But it also is great news because you actually do less. The answer is do less. And then you get a relief feeling of like, oh, right, there actually sort of is any. It's like when my therapist says, I've said it so many times, anything can happen to anyone at any time. Like, she'll say that as a way to soothe my anxieties of like, what if this happens? And what if I do, you know? And it just neutralizes it? It's like a nuclear weapon to your fear.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And being like, what if it. It may always be like this. It's like, seems like bad news. But then it sort of is just like, right, so what am I doing here?

[B]

Well, we don't know. It's the perhaps story.

[A]

Yeah, it's the perhaps, but it's also being like. And so if we just assume that it's always like this, then what can you do from there is really just like, okay. Then I can just practice being in it and being okay. Being.

[B]

Well. It's funny that you say that because. And I know I share this probably every episode of this podcast, but it's as frequently as I need to remind myself of it, but, yes, thank you. And how Ram Dass used to say, yes, thank you, is I will eat it all. But there's, like, a eagerness to it. So I have a big Plate of family feelings. Family drama.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, yeah, I'm gonna eat this. Like, this is distinctly human.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm alive.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I'm not even pretending I like it, but I'm, like, going with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I know I say this a lot, but it's like, this is last night, and I always forget it. Like, there'll be a good hour. I'm doing the breathwork. But probably the breathwork regulated me and allowed me to find my greatest. One of my greatest comforts, which is, yes, thank you. I was like, yes, I'm a guy. I'm having this issue 45. I'm right on schedule. This is perfect.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It felt great.

[A]

That's really good. And that's the kind of perspective, you know, you're. You might not have in the moment that you're dysregulated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the more that you make it through a dysregulated time and then on the other side, get that perspective, the more you'll trust that that is the perspective. So even if you can't feel it when you're dysregulated, you're like, I know that there are times when I see clearly, and I even see how this is beautiful.

[B]

Well, that's what was humbling about that experience last night, is I was so wrought. Like, wrecked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, remember I was installing an app on my phone, and it disappeared. I almost had a little weep about that, because sometimes you're feeling so much, and then your phone, I know, by its grace, gives you an opportunity to get mad at something else, something safer.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So I couldn't find the app. It vanished. But when you search for it, it was there. And I was like, really? Like, my fists are, like, clenching. And, yeah, Leela was there. So I, like, got it together. Not that, you know, she. She knows what feelings look like, and we're okay with feelings as a family, but I was like, this is. This is not Chill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm gonna put it aside for now. But I forget what I was saying.

[A]

Oh, that. You were just so wrecked from it, and.

[B]

Yeah. Oh. And. And that's what was humbling, was I was like, I just have to remind myself, you will not always. No feeling is forever.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you're not a failure. All these Fs. No feeling is forever. And you're not a failure. It's okay. Just kind of work. Don't even work. Go through it.

[A]

Right. So this is exactly when I get in my, like, babushka mode, as you call it, where, like, you know, the seasons of life or the moments and, you know, days where you've seen me, like, wrapping myself in a blanket, having a hot water bottle, sitting by a fire, sipping tea, not really talking, having little gentle cries. Like, that's, that's. Those are. That's how I have learned to respond to overwhelm, where it's really like there actually is nothing you can do but make yourself comfortable. It's like a death. Yeah, it's like, okay, we're sort of in hospice right now, so I'm going to try to make myself as comfor. Comfortable as possible to go through this transition. And you. I saw you also kind of learning that and doing that where you. Not that you, you. You've done it before. It's not like you're learning it, but like, you did the right thing. And you were told Leela that, like, I was gonna put her to bed because you needed to.

[B]

Yeah, I said my stomach was upset and I had to go. I was like, I have to go to the bathroom.

[A]

That was. Yeah, that. But that was the right thing to do. I was. I saw you taking care of yourself in that way.

[B]

I appreciate that. We haven't talked about that. That was. That was the first time in six years that I was like, I need to take care of myself right now.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I put my feet above my heart, which you can do with a chair. I do it on the couch. A doctor told me that to get into your parasympathetic nervous system, which is like your regulatory nervous system, as opposed to your fight flight. If you put your feet. If you lay on the floor and put your feet on a chair. So you're kind of like in a. Like a four on its side. You do that, I think you said, for 10 minutes. It like completely reverses everything. So I'm doing that. I'm doing the breath work. And I did. There were a couple moments where I was a little worried you might have come in because I was having, like, a hand on my face. Just cry.

[A]

Because that's great.

[B]

And I'm not saying this to just like, share. I'm saying this because I want. If people are relating, I want them to feel unalone. Is that like there's all this work that you do in therapy and you're trying to go like, some things happened, and in my case, it was like a million small things. Like it was a long term gas leak. And you go like, we need to deal with that. To face that, to Ask our, our insides, like, how did that feel? We have to get honest about it. And then like there's this resistance where the child wants to be like that wants its parents so badly. It's like, she made a mistake or he made a mistake. Like, it's like they're crying, they're like they just made a mistake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what are you doing? And you have to be like, like, we're not casting anybody out. And yes, you can forgive them. And it. And it is a mistake and everybody's doing the best they can and things hurt us. Like, it's both. You said that. It's both.

[A]

It's both.

[B]

We can have a gentle, open hand. Everybody's doing the best they can. And then. But when it comes to healing, it doesn't help to just go, everybody did the best they can. There's a second part where you go, like, what did it feel like when everybody was doing the best thing?

[A]

Yes, that's right. It's both. They did the best they could and it wasn't enough. And they did the best they could.

[B]

Right. And to the child self, it's just like, who cares, right? I want my mommy. And it's like, I know, but this brings in. Go ahead. What were you going to say?

[A]

Well, yeah, that is. And I could tell you were a little. Not fully. Definitely not fully identified with your child self. But I could see when you were saying that last night that that voice was big. That voice is big when we talk to our parents. Like, and the pining and the longing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why, like, the best thing we can do is build a relationship between our adult self and our child self. So the child self just, just slowly starts to trust the adult self where the adult can be like, I know you want your mommy and you'll. You're willing to do the type of relationship that hurt you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To have her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm just letting you know there's another way. And you said the perfect thing where it was like, you want validity, you want to be seen, you want love, you want safety. And you can have those things in other ways. And that's.

[B]

Right. Well, that's. We'll get into. We'll go into the. Somehow we're already at the halfway here. But like somebody, my friend Sulara recommended the book Nonviolent Communication, which I had heard about and for some reason I resisted because something about non violent, I like took that personally. Like, oh, I'm a violent communicator.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

And that goes back to the story for the longtime fans where somebody asked you if you knew about nonviolent parenting.

[A]

At the exact worst moment.

[B]

And we were like, oh, we're violent parents. So I had, like, an aversion to it. And we'll go into it a little bit more in the second half here, but, like, it's in a nutshell. Well, I can't do it in a nutshell. One aspect of it is taking ownership of how you feel based on your needs and getting really clear about both how you feel and what need it's tied to. And that can be really simple with certain things. Like, I'm feeling sad that my need for. For me, it's usually like recognition or validity. Like, if you ignore me at a dinner, you know, everybody knows that's my biggest trauma is if you specifically, Valerie, ignore me. I feel sad and angry that my need for connection isn't being met. And that doesn't mean that. So that's non violent communication, which in every movie where a couple goes to therapy, that's how they start talking to each other. And everybody's like, what? It's like a joke. Turns out it's not a joke. It's fucking beautiful. But what's key is, like, you're allowed to say, like, well, I'm feeling scared that my need for autonomy isn't being met. I want to connect with other people, and that's a valid need. And then you go in with the spirit of, like, we both want to meet these needs and we both want to in the spirit of life and making both of our lives wonderful and more wonderful. So there's like an optimism. And you start looking at needs as like a gift and your feelings as a gift. And me telling you what I need is like an exciting opportunity because you want to love me and I want to love you. And we want our life to be wonderful. So it's. Instead of being, like, ashamed that I'm a man, especially with a need, or you being worried that you're a needy woman. These are the stereotypes that has too many needs. We can go like, no, it's beautiful to have a need. And with a lot of things I'm realizing, like with my mom, I can't identify. Like, I'm feeling angry and sad that my need for autonomy isn't being honored.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then there's. I'm gonna read the rest of the book. But there's a whole slew of, like, shadowy, weird feelings that I don't. That aren't as clean. I will say in everyday Sort of interactions. It's really been, I'm gonna say already life changing for me to go like, what is the need here?

[A]

Yeah, that's great.

[B]

And instead of going, so one quick example, then we'll go to the break. But like a big word in my family growing up was, I feel neglected or you're neglecting me. So that is something that someone would. Someone.

[A]

Someone that could be true.

[B]

Could be true. Might guilt me into, like giving them more attention. And he would consider that to be violent. He doesn't use that term. He doesn't go, that's violent. But.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it is.

[A]

Yes. Because it has a judgment attached to it.

[B]

It's an interpretation.

[A]

And yeah, he goes, the.

[B]

It's. Krishnamurti said, the height of intelligence is observation without interpretation. As if you can like non, non judgmentally observe something. That's like the scientific method. You're looking at something without a bias and just seeing it clean. So we need to do that with our. So she. Somebody might say, you're neglecting me. And yes, that is something that was said by my mom and my family a lot was like, I feel neglected. That's an interpretation. You are choosing to. Not. You're at crossroads where you could pay attention to me and you don't. You keep choosing not to. But like, you might just say, I feel scared. That's so much better. Yeah, I feel scared and sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That my need for intimacy isn't being met. And then again, that doesn't mean someone drops everything and does it. But it's. It's taking ownership. I don't feel neglected. You neglected me. And I feel neglected. It's just, I have a need for intimacy. It's complete ownership. It's really exciting stuff. It's like, it's me. It was me. I have a need.

[A]

That's right. And I would imagine even phrasing it that way gives you like. Well, it does. So I was saying that our friend Michael Gunger, when he. He went through a real non violent communication phase, he might still be. But when he was telling me about it, it was sort of like, oh, it's. It's the opposite of codependence and the opposite of like what. What both of us, I think, do, which is like, take the responsibility for other people's feelings. And it is. It's total independence. It's keeping it with that person. So it's like, yeah, you know, I feel this way because my need is. And it's totally theirs. It's not. It's not like, yeah, it's just. I'm saying everything that you're saying already. But. Yeah, no, but it's keeping with that person. And then what I was going to say is if you're trying. If you're turning your experience into this phrase, even by doing that, there's such a richness to be able to be like, do I have like that need? And why do I have that need? And is that a need that I can meet myself?

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Well, that's what I'm trying to say to my child self.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have a need for intimacy, safety, connection, affection, vulnerability all. And reciprocity. You have a need for. It's totally normal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm telling you, we can do it.

[A]

We can meet those needs.

[B]

Those are your needs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Let's meet them. You have a habit of getting them here, here or here. And my mom has needs. I want to help my mother meet her needs. It's not at the detriment of any need is seen as equal. It's like a negotiation. I'm not saying I'm near having a conversation like that with my family, but in my friendships and stuff. And there's something he gave an example in the book. It's called nonviolent communication. And the audiobook, he's reading it, but he's clearly not just reading it word for word. And it feels like you're just hanging with this guy. He almost sounds like a dj. I almost want to play a snippet of it. A DJ of AM Jazz radio.

[A]

Like a smooth dj.

[B]

Yeah. He's like. And one thing I want to talk to you about is what we might say. Well, it's also like Mr. Rogers. He'll go, I'm going to say a few things and you tell me if someone's expressing a need or not. Living with you is like living with a wall. I'm not hearing a need there. You know what I mean? And you're just like, what is this? It's like, is this episode brought to us by the letter R? I'm loving it.

[A]

That does sound nice.

[B]

It's therapeutic just listening to it. So definitely get the audiobook. I love it. But it's also not always like deep, dark rocket science, psychotherapy, meaning somebody's on a. They're on a train going between terminals and they're late for their flight. And the guy goes, could this train be going any slower? And then the wife goes like, I think it's electronically timed. And he's like, because I'm not hearing a need he needs to be like, I'm feeling angry because I just want you to validate my feelings. Just tell me that, that you see how I feel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The end of violence. That's the whole point. He even talks to like tribes that are at war that have been killing each other back and forth for centuries. And when he teaches them this, they're like, oh, we don't need to be killing each other. Like crazy stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's really, really great.

[A]

I do feel like you and I are good at this before we even knew for sure. No, I'm. And I don't think that you think that we aren't. But I just, I think this. I guess what, what I'm trying to say is I think this works really well with our. Already our tendency to want to say something in the. The most non confrontational way and to in general both be pretty good at knowing what need isn't being met.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And trying. Yeah. And trying to communicate that to each other in the most tender way that isn't gonna make the person feel bad.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Yes. Where we, I think have a blind spot as a couple is it's near impossible for me to say I feel sad and angry to you if I'd be afraid. But that's what's brilliant about it. I'm saying like this morning we drove to school and Leila didn't have her shoes. And it's still hard, I would imagine, for you to say I feel sad and angry because my need to. See I'm not great at the needs, but my need to like, to have order.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have predictability, reliable and, and solidarity. Feel together and.

[A]

Yeah. To feel supported.

[B]

My need to feel supported isn't being met. Is still not completely easy to say. No, we, like, I might be like, I. I'm sorry, but I would, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then he would say, please stop and say your need. And you'd be like, I'm not. I'm like, not even halfway through the book, so I'm not an expert at it. In fact, I'm gonna compendium as a compendium to the book. I'm gonna watch some youtubes where he's giving lectures and stuff. Cause I'm all in. It's also making me realize I never really know how I feel. Right away I go, I'm angry. Well, right under that is always sad. And then the other one is always afraid. Like, it's like I'm scared. Like I'm scared that I'm vanishing. My need for acknowledgment isn't being met because I think I'm going away. Like, it's so silly.

[A]

But it's.

[B]

It's. It's helping me get good at both identifying my need and my emotion, which most of the time, we just go, well, that guy's an idiot. Like that. That. Like the. He gives an example about when you're driving and someone. This. This just happened to me. Someone I was driving on the road with. Two times, they didn't signal. We got to stop signs, and they didn't signal. And in my. I hear my mind go, this person never signals. And he's like, it's so much better to just go. The last two times this guy has been at a stop sign, he didn't signal. It's just. It's just gentler.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And more valid.

[A]

True.

[B]

Have you ever not signed? And are you just suddenly a guy who doesn't signal? No one likes being treated that way, and that's what makes them retaliate. You go. You never use. Your signal is not accurate or good language. It's really interesting.

[A]

It's not helpful.

[B]

I can't sell it enough.

[A]

Then it instantly makes the person get defensive. Yeah. It's interesting to think about it in terms of our relationship, because I do think we are so tender towards the other person being disappointed in us. And anyway, if so, anything that feels that way feels really unbearable.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then, like, protectors come out and, you know, whatever. But. But I also. Yeah, I don't know. It's really interesting to think of. I think when. When it really matters, we do that. We have done it. But even in that case, it was like, yeah, I was pretty cheesed. Cheesed for five minutes about that. And, like, you knew I was cheesed, and you knew exactly why. And. And then, like, it got metabolized and I didn't think about it at all for sure.

[B]

Couple compliment. One of the things that were something about you and I merging into this thing we call Pete and Val, it really feels like emerging if you're freaking out. Not that you were freaking out, but you know what I mean? Yeah. If you're freaking out about the shoes, I won't be freaking out about the shoes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like two. Two sides of a brain or two sides of a heart. It's like, we never freak out about the same thing. And if you weren't freaking out about the shoes, if you were taking a turn just being completely groovy, I might have filled the gap and been like, this Is. I mean, we gotta wear shoes. You know, like, that's a wonderful aspect of our relationship.

[A]

And I do, you know, I'm acknowledging that I do have a conflict. Adverse, you know, tendencies. And maybe some people could listen to this and be like, that's just suppressing your feelings. But I do feel like I'm just gonna say the sentence as I mean it, and then maybe it's not right. Just fully recognizing that. I do think the key to a healthy relationship, at least for me and probably you, is not mentioning every. Not making everything a thing.

[B]

Are you nuts? This is, like, one of my cornerstones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So as much as I love feelings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And have a lot of them. And, you know, it's. This is a delicate thing to teach Leland. We're not really teaching. We're just teaching her that feelings are okay and we're gonna be with them.

[A]

There'll be a time for this.

[B]

But, like, one of the great lessons I learned about how to get along in the world is you can't be freaking out all the time. I just did a podcast where I was the guest. It was. It's called how to Get a Girlfriend. And we were just talking about the right mix and looking for the cues. Is now the time to tell them about my family?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or are you gonna freak them out? Is the first date the right time to talk about it? Might be with you and I. We got into it pretty fast right away, but that's because the cues were there. And, like, the way to lose a partner or. Or have a date go sideways is. Is sharing nothing but. And feel nothing. But then on the other side of the spectrum, it's sharing everything and feeling everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, I. I'm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Restraint is part of the mix.

[A]

And for me, I just. I sort of run. And I think you do this too. Like, run things through a filter where I'm like, is this something I can just metabolize myself?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, in that case, it was like, we've had the SHU conversation so many times, you know that, like, that's a thing that I get frustrated about. You knew I was frustrated about it. We don't need to be like, I don't need to be like, this is so frustrating for me. I always feel like I'm the only one who, like, I don't need to be doing any of that. We got it.

[B]

You don't have to win, and you don't have to humiliate me.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Well, that's interesting. Again, I'm not at this in the book but it's like, well, I have a need to humiliate you. I don't know, let's go to the mids just cause we're almost at an hour here so sorry but we'll be right back. I believe the ads, if I'm remembering correctly, are three minutes. It's three minute little ad break and we'll be right back. And do try one of these things and then when we come back. And do try one of these things when we come back. I was on my Rupert retreat, so we'll talk a little bit about that and then we'll bid you adieu. Katie, roll that beautiful brain footage. I just got back from the road and of course when I'm packing and unpacking, I'm taking out my ritual multivitamins and my ritual synbiotic plus pre, post and probiotic because it is a game changer. It's changed the way my body feels and I feel ready to face the day and I never leave home without it. I know that's another product slogan, but it's true. I never leave home without it. According to the cdc, fewer men than women meet the minimal daily intake recommendation for fruit and veg. And men are more likely to overvalue exercise and undervalue nutrition. Well, dudes, wake up. Stop with Ritual, a multivitamin scientifically developed for men to help fill key nutrient gaps in your diet. And I can say anecdotally from my own experience, it's night and day before ritual after ritual. When I get my blood work done, my doctor and myself, we see the results, we see the difference. And as a mostly vegan person, I got a lot of gaps. And ritual fills it in with traceable ingredients. We're looking at these capsules that got minty aftertaste. So it's a pleasure to take. Obviously the pre, post and probiotic. Your gut is like a second stomach and it's nourishing and replenishing. That plus it's a delayed release capsule, which is two things. One means it breaks down in your large intestine, which is where it can actually be absorbed. Two, it won't make you nauseous, which is key for me because I do a lot of fasting, so it doesn't make you nauseous. If you've ever taken zinc on an empty stomach, you know how important this is. Plus a lot of multivitamins people are like, oh, you just pee it out and you even see it makes your pee pee look like you ate a highlighter for lunch. Ritual doesn't do that because it's not breaking down like that. It breaks down in a way that your body can actually absorb for results you can actually feel. And I am excited for this offer for you all to try it. Essential for men as a quality multivitamin from a company you can actually trust. You can get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com weird. That's ritual.com/weird for 25% off your first month. We're also brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. You guys probably see me all over social media talking about Magic Mind because it is an absolute game changer. I always, always, always have it with me. It's in my carry on. It's in my car. It's at the studio. Obviously, we put it out for the guests. And selfishly, I want the guests to drink it because Magic Mind elevates your mood. It also kind of calms you down. That's the adaptogens in there. So it's calming you and stimulating you with matcha. So it puts you right in that peak state in the middle where you can be creative, where you can be focused, where you can be lighthearted, have fun, and make good stuff. Athletes have Gatorade now. Creators have creator aid. It is flow state in a bottle. It doesn't interrupt a fast, too. Speaking of fasting, which I love, I take it on my fast days. Doesn't upset my stomach, but gives me that clean burning fuel to create, to dial in and focus, not jittery dialed in. I talk about it so much. You guys know I mean it. We got a special offer. Go to MagicMind Co weird and use my discount code at checkout weird for limited 20 off your order. Do yourself a favor and subscribe. I've never been upset that the the box. I got one right on my desk. When my magic mind shows up, I'm stoked. I give it to friends. I drink it constantly. MagicMind Co weird. Use discount code weird at checkout for 20 off your first order. All right, we're back. I. It's so. It's my birthday on the 30th. We're close.

[A]

Happy birthday to you.

[B]

Happy bird hat.

[A]

Happy bird. Herper Birder.

[B]

Popo. I. I want to say every year, I just love it so much, but there's a Rupert Spira. As you know, I talk about Rupert a lot. Retreat. And I went last year and I went this year, and it's in March, and I absolutely love it. And it was Heaven on Earth. That's all. I mean, it's not all I want to say.

[A]

It's not even close to all you're gonna say. But I do want to request in the first spirit jukebox that you talk about the, like, shaking activity that you did. Oh, yeah, you do.

[B]

Well, that's not an officially sanctioned Rupert's.

[A]

Byra Sure activity, but just part of your experience.

[B]

You've. You've dialed it in, Val. I really appreciate it. So the thing I wanted to share was when you're with a group of 134 people that are all interested in their true nature and acknowledging and experiencing their true nature and the nature of their nature being peace and happiness and that. That nature is shared with everyone and everything, the vibration of that group. I could cry. It's off the charts. I'm not saying this is, this is a path for everybody or that anybody that came would have that experience, but if this, if that, if his works resonate with you. So we used to go to the Ram Dass retreat and there's a lot of singing and there's hugging and stuff. There's a lot drier. But the, the vibe of it was thicker than applesauce. It was. It was just the thickest. And so many people were in there, 70s and 80s. And I just get to talk to my elders. I'm talking with elder, like, people older than me that have a beautiful way of looking and interpreting the world. And. And there were people with needs, and you could talk with them and then you'd have needs and you talk with them. And it was a dopamine detox and like an absolute spotlight of just loving kindness and beautiful. I couldn't, couldn't have loved it more. And then my friend Tatiana, who is trained in all sorts of modalities of therapy, when we were just me, her and my friend Bob, and occasionally our friend Chris would join us. We would go into a free room and we did something that I'm going to describe here that I highly recommend if it's interesting to anyone listening, that you try it because it's free, it's easy, and it's so dumb to be like. And it works. But it's called trauma release exercise. And what you do is you lay on the ground with your knees up and you lift. Oh, I'm sorry. Not with your knees up with your. Like if you were the soles of your feet touching, so the butterfly. But with your back on the ground so your feet are touching and you're in the butterfly. Position, and then you lift your butt off the ground for two minutes. And what that does is it fatigues your hamstrings. I guess it fatigues your legs. So you're trying to, like, find a channel. It's hard to explain, but you're looking for a pathway to a certain response from your body. And the way to find it is to exhaust your legs. So you exhaust. The point of that is while you're holding your butt up. If you're me, I tend to be a very embodied person. Not always, but, you know, I'll start shaking right away. And then when you're shaking, you can put your feet flat on the ground. And now you have your knees up like windshield wipe. Well, straight up. And now like windshield. No, your butt's on the ground.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

After you've started shaking or after the two minutes, now your knees are up, and you can move them farther away from each other or closer to each other, and what happens is you'll start shaking. And I used to have this in deep meditation sometimes, like kind of almost like self hypnosis sort of things that start shaking. Turns out this is an interpretation, but it's my experience that if you allow your body, if you give your body, like, permission to work itself out, it will be so thrilled.

[A]

Yes. It's like, thank you. This is what I've been waiting for.

[B]

But unlike. So you dance and there's exercise and there's, you know, all the things we do. This is very low effort and very high efficacy. Meaning if you. So you're moving your feet, your knees apart just an inch at a time. Is it there? Is it there? Is it there? When you find it, you just start. I can. Mine is really loose now. Like, I can. I showed you at breakfast.

[A]

It's so funny. I. I cackled laughing. The first day.

[B]

You were like.

[A]

What you have to picture is like, Pete is like doing, like a Shakira impression. Yeah, like the way Shakira used to, like, shake her chest.

[B]

Like, not, you know, that's the way my body moves. Different bodies are going to move different ways. I get a lot of shows.

[A]

Look, I'm not. I'm not trying to do this.

[B]

I can do it right now.

[A]

This is involuntary. And I just was like, what do.

[B]

You mean I could do it? Right now it looks like, amazing. I don't want to make fun of it because I want people to do it, but you do kind of look like you're being abducted by an alien. You do kind of look like you're in some Sort of seizure.

[A]

I'm so into this.

[B]

But my. You do it for 15 minutes. If that's appealing to you. You can. Even Tatiana says she does it when she watches tv. Like, it doesn't have to be like a meditation. And I repeat in my mind, I'm all yours, darling. Meaning to my body. Like, just. You do whatever you need to do. It rolls me on my side, and I'm shaking on my side. I have all. Remember every time I take mushrooms, which I did recently. Oh, my God. We could have talked about that.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

We'll talk about that next time. But like. Or maybe this time. I don't know. But, like, I always go, there's a. I want someone to crack my back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just can't get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a tension in my lower back, and I can't get it. And you are like. You say that every time. This is. It goes right to that. It goes right. So I've been like, where's the masseuse? Where's the chiropractor that can get this? And it's like, oh, it's. You just lay down and weaken your whatever. And then let your body shake. So it would sit me up. Up and crack my back perfectly.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

This happens sometimes in tm, too. They call it the cosmic chiropractor, where you'll start moving involuntarily and it'll just kind of like, fix your neck. I used to have that with TM as well. So this is just like this really fast expressway to giving your body permission to work itself out. Have all these memories coming back. Sense memories of being a baby. Stuff comes up from my childhood. Like, memories, weird stuff. All manageable because I'm being, like, supported by my body. And then finally, to your Shakira point, once you find the. The road.

[A]

Yeah. The frequency.

[B]

I don't even have to do the lifting my butt out. I can. Like, I said I could do it right now, which is, like, right now. Wow. And it's. It's amazing. And I do it after therapy now. I mean, some people call it tension release. Some people call it trauma release exercise. Because you really feel that your body is like, you got something in your shoulder. I'm gonna shake it off of you.

[A]

Well, every. I mean, I'm sure most of the listeners of this podcast know the, like, this is the thing that animals do. That is. This is why, like, animals aren't traumatized and carrying around complex ptsd.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they almost die, often daily. And then they shake their bodies Their bodies shake it all out. Like, the energy. The. A feeling clearly has energy. That's what we feel, is the energy of that feeling. And then that just gets stuck and stored in our body. And one of the few ways to get rid of it is to shake it out. So I love this. I haven't done it yet.

[B]

It's great doing it with someone else. I did it alone yesterday, and it's not quite as. I don't know. There's something I like about doing it with someone else.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But, yeah, we will do it and I really recommend it. In closing, just because we had such a long first half and such a short second half here. I will say it was a friend of ours birthday. I've always done, like, smaller doses of mushrooms. We had, like, a very intentional. There was music and there were, like, guides. There were guides. It was.

[A]

They brewed a tea.

[B]

It was done in accordance with, like, all the maps, people. And, you know, it was like the ultimate set and setting. So. And I ended up doing. I think it was like, three and a half grams, which is more. I've always done, like. I don't know, one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this was like three and a half X, then more. So, of course, I consumed it as a tea and I was, like, pretty nervous. We were all singing and loving each other, and it was beautiful and wearing comfortable clothes and beautiful setting and all this stuff. And then we went out and it started kicking in, and then I got, like, really kind of scared, which doesn't sound correct, but there's no way to ever be fully ready for how it feels to be like you're about to be under the control of another thing. And people have talked about mushrooms, too. Feeling very embodied, meaning this thing kind of seems to have its own intelligence and its own. This sounds terrifying, as I say this, but you just feel like you're in. You're surrendering into an experience. And no matter how much you say that as Earth Pete, once you start becoming cosmic, you're merging into cosmic Pete. You're like, this could be anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's also three times more than I've ever done. So I'm like. We went into the living room and you were with me, and you could tell, like, just something wasn't right. And what. I kept yawning, too. That's kind of normal. So what I was experiencing was I was excited, bored, terrified and tired.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At the same time. Like, none of those go together.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I'm yawning. And then my secret thought was I was like, why would I want to leave this plane? I love this plane. Like, I want to eat chips and laugh with Val and just hang out and I'm leaving Earth. So there was, like, this resisting the call kind of thing.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then Valerie, in all her wisdom, took me outside. I had been outside. Outside wasn't quite right. But then you took me alone.

[A]

Yeah, I took you away from the group.

[B]

You took me away from the group and away from the weird fucking music. Look, I liked the music, but there was a lot.

[A]

It was a lot.

[B]

And everyone's having their own experience. I'm kind of invested in how they're doing. You took me to this patch of grass by myself, looking at this tree that was covered in, like, long.

[A]

It was a Muppet tree.

[B]

A Muppet tree?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It looked like a swamp thing or. It's hard to explain. And then. And then the mushrooms really kicked in. And I'm on the grass under a blanket with a big pillow that you got me. We joked that the big takeaway from this big trip I had was, I am such an introvert. I'm the most introverted. It. And I was. You came to check on me later and I. And I was crying and in this blanket laying on the grass. And I said, I'm as happy as a boy can be. And Valerie, I was as happy as a boy can be. Other people, there's no judgment here. I'm just saying some people want to, like, talk and listen to music and move and, like, relate, connect with each other. And I'm like. And I've felt this way every time I do mushrooms. I'm like, it. It wants you. And it's never. It's always here, but it's never here in this available form. So answer it. Go towards it. And I had the most. I flirted with. I would call creator God. Ketamine is a non. Dual experience. You go into the beautiful void, the luminous emptiness. Mushrooms is like a creator God. It's like a gaia energy, like earth, life, light, art. And it was showing off. That's all it was doing. My intention was to hang out with myself. That was not the experience. It was like, no, put all of that theory aside. I'm just going to dance. This tree is like. I told you at one point, the tree was like, here's the message. Sorry, I know I'm going on and on. It's just hard to talk about the tree. I loved the tree and nature more than anything. And I felt like Shakespeare or Monet. And I'm. And I'm. One of the things I remember saying was like, I won't blaspheme you by giving you a name. I didn't know what to call it, but I was like, but I love. I love you. I love you so much. And. And I'm weeping and it loved me. And I was going me, and it was going me. It couldn't believe. It was so amazing and I loved it, but it was like, you're so amazing and I love you and you are it. And I was like. And we were flirting. Yeah, we were. It was poetry and music and I just want to write you a simple. And like, I can't. And it was like, I want to write you. It wouldn't speak in those terms, but it was like, you're as beautiful as this. And then I'd look at a dead tree and I'm like, you're the most beautiful thing I've ever. Everywhere I looked was the face of God, is what you could say.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And. But it was pure. When I say it was non sexual, it was sexual in the sense that it was absolute energy and the exchange of energy. But it was pure non sexual sexual love affair. And I'll never forget that it was as much as I was enamored with it. And it was a mushroom trip. The ground was rainbow purple. And anytime I got up to pee, I'd be standing there like a giant and there'd be this fountain of pee coming out of me and I'm like, every breeze and every bird, I was just like. And everywhere I looked was absolute bliss. But, like, I forget what my punchline was there. It was just showing off and. And, oh. It was like, don't forget. This was its message for me. Don't forget. Ta da. It was like, I love Rupert. And there is some bhakti. There's some devotion in Rupert. But it was like, don't forget. Kapow. It was like, all of that is ultimate reality. And my feeling that, like, that's the highest truth. But like, don't forget we wanted to. Incarnate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we wanted to go and we wanted to show the off for ourself and. And kiss and eat ourselves and. God, I just. At one point, the tree seemed to turn away from me with big cartoon eyes and it, like, blinked them, like, flirtatiously and was like me, like a cartoon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There was also another funny part where I was getting kind of bold. Now I'm in the peak of it and I'm like, what? You just see stuff. It's Fine. There's nothing scary about this. And then the tree started, like. I can't describe it, but it started becoming, like four dimensional, almost, like, almost digitally coming out of itself. Not as a scary thing, but not as a chill thing either. I was like, with respect, madam. Like, I tipped my hat and was like, yes, I'm at your mercy. Like, it was very. But even that was a flirt. It was like, oh, you think?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it's just seeing stuff. There's nothing you could see that would kind of be a lot for you. Well, what about this? And I was like, oh, yeah. And I know this isn't quite making sense, but all I wanted to say was I was a wave splashing against the rock of creation and just delighting. Don't forget. Ta da. Don't forget every tree is. It's just orgasm and love and connect. It was the best.

[A]

Ah. I love it. Okay. I've felt that before and I.

[B]

Sorry, Val, we're out of here.

[A]

Should we go to, like, old school? We made it weird. I can read this poem that I wrote when I was.

[B]

I'd only ever love it in that state.

[A]

I think I've read this one on the podcast many, many, many years ago. Well, not many, many years ago. A couple years ago.

[B]

Yes, please. I'd love to hear it. Should I play the music?

[A]

I don't know. Should we? I haven't looked at this. I haven't read this in a very long time. I'm just kind of looking through it right now to make sure it's not embarrassing. But maybe it is embarrassing, and that's okay too.

[B]

Valerie, we have to play the mean thing.

[A]

Okay, wait.

[B]

I think I have it. Here it is. This is like old times.

[A]

I know. I'm already nervous. Okay. It's called worship. Worship. The earth is so delicious. I devolve into an animal on hands and knees, scraping and burning my skin on the hot concrete. You are not up there. You are down here. I want to eat the bugs and fallen leaves and lick the blood from my own knees. You are not up there. You are down here. I am not humbled. I'm obsessed. I devour. I impose and transgress. I bite and break and grope and take. You are not up there. I kiss and stroke anything that I broke. You are down here. I am the first head that was ever bowed. And I do not move and I do not move away. I move toward. You are not up there. You are down here.

[B]

Valerie, how dare you be nervous? I say it all the time, but if you told me that that was. And I love Mary Oliver. I'm not like, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. So I don't know if that's good. I'm saying I read a lot of Mary Oliver. I love poetry, and that is amazing.

[A]

But isn't that incredibly, like, your experience? And I, like, had that on a hike once where I was just like, girl, I need to, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have sex with this.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to be graphic, but it felt like oral.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, I'm gobbling it because it's not.

[A]

Because it's, like, sensual and erotic. It's not like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like what sex was supposed to be. Yeah.

[B]

It's not thrusting and humping.

[A]

It's like.

[B]

It was like.

[A]

It's like, how do you.

[B]

Maybe it's less dirty to say kiss it. It was, like, passionately making out.

[A]

Yes. It's like, how do I merge with you? How do I get more into you or get you more into me?

[B]

And I can't stress this enough. It was. It was so obsessed with me. It couldn't believe that I was there. And I was so humbled by it. And I kept being like, I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

The best feeling of falling in love, where you're like, but I'm absolutely obsessed with you. And you are of me.

[B]

I was in love. Yeah, Absolutely. And anytime Pete came up, I'd think about Pete. I'd think about his life, his problems. It was like, just, you're not Pete. You just think you are kind of thing. It's like, you're not anxious. You just think you are. You're not depressed or anything. You just think you are. And it was like, so just for now, let's not think about that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And guess what? You don't go anywhere. You just show up to the wedding banquet. That's what it felt like.

[A]

This is the whole thing. I was thinking about this today. I was like, okay, March. March is a month for me that I like. You know, I. I get. I get so much comfort and I. In enjoyment out of, like, really defining the seasons and embracing it and, like, just merging with the seasons. And I'm like, all right, March, here we go. It feels sort of like a liminal space for me where I'm like, it's still kind of winter, but we're thinking about spring and whatever. And. And I just had this thought. This is all I was driving yesterday where I was like, if I Were in love. If. I mean, I am in love. I love. If I were falling in love, Mar, I would see March clearly. I would be like, it's so green and there's clovers and there's like. Remember that March? It was like, oh, wet field with a rainbow. And like, you know, it's just like. And that is our truest nature. And so it's just sort of, you know, we. This is why people, like, you know, have affairs or perpetual. Or breaking up and, like, perpetually trying to fall in love. They want that because they think that that's the only way to access true seeing and clear.

[B]

Right. But it's not one Rupert Spire thing. He says that love isn't relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship. So you. You vanish together into the thing that you both always and already were.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what I felt like me and this tree were doing. And obviously you can access that feeling all the time. That was the one Rupert thing. After this retreat, I was like, oh, the pathway to just going like, my nature is peace and happiness, and I share that nature with everyone and everything to that experiential knowing is just. I was. I was encouraged. I was like, oh, you practice. That's what he told me a year ago. He was like, just go into your being in every kind of situation. And my question last year and my question this year were completely different. My question on the first year was, can we trust awareness? How do we know it doesn't want to send us to hell, basically? And my question this year was, rupert, everywhere I look, there are all these metaphors. What do you make of that? There's empty space. There's childbirth, there's the ocean. There's, you know, clouds. There's dreams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, what do you make of that? That this world is Chuck a buck. We talked about this last time. Full chockabok, chockablock, chockablock. I didn't say it when I asked it, and it was so sweet. He's like, pete, I completely agree. And we just had this really sweet. I was like, oh, some of the fear is dying off and some of the trust is building. And even better, like, what I experienced on mushrooms or in love is right there. I mean, like, this isn't just positive thinking. It's like, your nature is peace and happiness. That which is the substance out of which your sadness emerges and then recedes back into that substance which we call knowing or consciousness or being is completely fulfilled. It's limitless, timeless and fulfilled. It's peaceful, it's happy, it's even joyful. None of these things are quite literally like the human emotion. But get curious yourself. Go to the experience of knowing and ask yourself, is it frustrated we can't find Leela's shoes?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not a fire to you. That's what I'm doing when I can't find Leela's shoes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you go, oh, that pathway is getting clearer. The snow is getting packed down and I can walk on it more clearly.

[A]

Don't forget this podcast is also sometimes fart sounds. All right, I'm gonna say our thing and then you do a. You do the sound effect of a crispy fart.

[B]

I don't know how to do a crispy fart.

[A]

Think about it. This is important. This is a test.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, everybody. Thanks for listening to our weird and wacky wild. We made it weird. Keep it crispy. Perfect. Perfect.