We Made It Weird #211

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes - Episode #211

Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Valerie
Release Date: March 21, 2025
Duration: Approximately 1 hour and 25 minutes

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Introduction

In episode #211 of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes," hosts Pete Holmes and Valerie delve deep into discussions surrounding therapy, emotional healing, nonviolent communication, breathwork exercises, and profound spiritual experiences. This episode intertwines humor with introspection, offering listeners both laughs and meaningful insights.

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Therapy and Emotional Healing (24:00 – 37:00)

Overview: Pete and Valerie explore the transformative journey of therapy, discussing the challenges and breakthroughs that come with deep emotional work. They touch upon the complexities of altering family dynamics and the evolving relationship with parents post-therapy.

Key Discussions:

• Breaking Family Patterns:
  Pete shares his experiences with therapy, highlighting how confronting past traumas feels akin to "breaking out of a prison."
  “It's like breaking family patterns and escaping them, looking at them honestly and not with any malice.” ([24:20])

• The Impact on Relationships:
  Valerie and Pete talk about how healing can sometimes strain relationships, particularly with parents, as boundaries are redefined.
  “Sometimes the relationship gets chunkier,” Pete notes, referring to the complexities that arise when old dynamics are challenged. ([26:05])

• Balancing Autonomy and Compassion:
  They discuss the delicate balance between asserting one’s independence and maintaining compassion towards family members.
  “You can honor it and be gentle about it, but you can't fix it.” ([25:24])

Notable Insights:

• Stacking Emotions:
  Pete reflects on the interplay of various emotions during therapy, emphasizing that feelings are not linear and can be multifaceted.
  “I was excited, bored, terrified, and tired at the same time.” ([32:55])

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Nonviolent Communication (37:00 – 50:00)

Overview: The conversation shifts to the principles of Nonviolent Communication (NVC), a framework that emphasizes expressing one’s feelings and needs without judgment or blame. Pete introduces Valerie to the concept and discusses its practical applications.

Key Discussions:

• Ownership of Feelings:
  Pete explains that NVC encourages taking ownership of one’s emotions by linking them directly to unmet needs.
  “I feel sad and angry that my need for connection isn't being met.” ([41:27])

• Avoiding Judgment:
  They explore how phrases like "I feel neglected" can carry judgments, whereas NVC promotes focusing solely on one's feelings and needs.
  “I feel scared that my need for autonomy isn't being honored.” ([43:05])

• Cultural and Relational Applications:
  Valerie and Pete discuss how NVC can transform personal relationships by fostering empathy and understanding.
  “This is nonviolent communication... It's allowing you to say, 'I feel this way because my need is...'" ([41:49])

Notable Quotes:

• Pete: “Name a culture. China. We did it. That doesn't really fuck with cheese.” ([15:54]) – Highlighting the universality of certain needs across cultures.

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Breathwork Exercises (50:00 – 62:00)

Overview: Valerie introduces the concept of trauma release exercises (TRE), and Pete shares his personal experience with a specific breathwork technique aimed at emotional regulation.

Key Discussions:

• Trauma Release Exercise (TRE):
  Pete describes a simple yet effective method involving physical movements to release stored trauma.
  “You lay on the ground with your knees up... and lift your butt off the ground for two minutes.” ([62:08])

• Embodied Healing:
  They discuss how allowing the body to shake can facilitate emotional release and healing.
  “If you allow your body to work itself out, it will be thrilled.” ([62:47])

• Integration with Therapy:
  Pete relates TRE to his therapy sessions, emphasizing its role in managing intense emotions.
  “It's helping me get good at both identifying my need and my emotion.” ([49:14])

Practical Takeaway: Listeners are encouraged to try simple breathwork or trauma release exercises to aid in emotional regulation and healing.

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Spiritual Experiences and Mushroom Trip (58:00 – 78:00)

Overview: Pete recounts his recent experience attending a Rupert Spira retreat and participating in a mindful mushroom trip. He shares vivid descriptions of his journey, blending humor with profound realizations.

Key Discussions:

• Rupert Spira Retreat:
  Pete describes the retreat as "heaven on earth," highlighting the collective energy focused on peace and happiness.
  “It was heaven on earth... It was just the thickest.” ([58:44])

• Mushroom Trip Insights:
  He narrates his own mushroom experience, touching upon themes of surrender, love, and the interconnectedness of all things.
  “I am such an introvert... It was like absolute bliss.” ([70:06])

• Embodied Experiences:
  Valerie and Pete discuss how nature and physical experiences, like being with a tree, can evoke deep spiritual connections.
  “Everywhere I looked was the face of God.” ([72:34])

Notable Quotes:

• Pete: “Love isn't relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship.” ([80:01]) – A profound insight into the nature of love and connection.
• Valerie: “This is important. This is a test.” ([82:50]) – Referring to their personal rituals and practices.

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Poetry and Closing Thoughts (74:00 – 83:00)

Overview: The episode concludes with Valerie reading a poem titled "Worship," reflecting themes of obsession, connection with nature, and the raw emotions tied to existence.

Poem: "Worship"
The earth is so delicious. I devolve into an animal on hands and knees, scraping and burning my skin on the hot concrete. You are not up there. You are down here. I want to eat the bugs and fallen leaves and lick the blood from my own knees...

Key Discussions:

• Expressing Raw Emotions:
  Valerie shares how the poem encapsulates her visceral connection with nature and her internal struggles.
  “This is your experience... It felt like oral. It was passionately making out.” ([75:57])

• Integration of Spirituality and Personal Experience:
  Both hosts reflect on how their spiritual practices intertwine with daily life, enhancing their understanding of self and the universe.

Final Thoughts: Pete and Valerie emphasize the importance of embracing emotions, practicing self-compassion, and maintaining healthy communication in relationships. They encourage listeners to explore their own spiritual and emotional journeys with openness and authenticity.

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Conclusion

Episode #211 of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes" offers an enriching blend of humor, personal anecdotes, and deep philosophical discussions. Pete and Valerie guide listeners through their journeys of self-discovery, emotional healing, and spiritual enlightenment, providing valuable insights and relatable experiences. Whether you're navigating therapy, exploring communication techniques, or seeking spiritual growth, this episode serves as a thoughtful companion on your path to embracing your own weirdness.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “It's like breaking family patterns and escaping them, looking at them honestly and not with any malice.” – Pete ([24:20])
• “I feel sad and angry that my need for connection isn't being met.” – Pete ([41:27])
• “You lay on the ground with your knees up... and lift your butt off the ground for two minutes.” – Pete ([62:08])
• “Love isn't relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship.” – Pete ([80:01])
• “Everywhere I looked was the face of God.” – Pete ([72:34])

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Recommendations:

• Explore Nonviolent Communication:
  Consider reading the book "Nonviolent Communication" to enhance personal and professional relationships.

• Try Trauma Release Exercises:
  Integrating simple physical exercises like TRE can aid in emotional healing and stress management.

• Attend Spiritual Retreats:
  Engaging in retreats focused on mindfulness and self-discovery, as Pete did with Rupert Spira, can provide profound personal insights.

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Final Note: Pete and Valerie encourage listeners to embrace their unique journeys, finding strength and humor in their shared experiences. Their candid conversations offer a blend of laughter and wisdom, making complex emotional and spiritual topics accessible and engaging.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

What's going on?

[Valerie]

This is a classique.

[Pete Holmes]

You said it. I usually say it.

[Valerie]

Well, you usually say this is one of the best episodes ever.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I loved it. I did love it.

[Valerie]

I loved it too. My God, it was effortless, effervescent.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And we also covered a lot. Yeah, yeah, effervescent and effortless. And we covered a lot. A lot of good therapy, a lot of good laughs, a lot of good spiritual stuff and just some good old fashioned updates on some stories like what's been going on.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm glad you guys are here. I will tease that the second half we talk about a really great mushroom trip and the Rupert retreat and all this fun stuff. So don't miss out on the second part of the show. In the first part, a lot of therapy stuff, but also a lot of laughs too. So yeah, just a little, little table of contents there. Thanks for being here, PeteHomes.com for all my tour dates. And I'm not, I'm not even going to say anything more. If you like the show, try a pizza pick. We're going to run like 2 min ads here and then we'll get into the episode and enjoy. Thanks for being here, Valerie.

[Valerie]

Get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wait, that's not what we do. No, that's not what we do. You can just leave those. That was a mistake.

[Valerie]

Don't get into it. Quite.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't get into it. If you want to support the show. Katie, roll that beautiful. That's what we do. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. I recently threw away all of my weed because it was too damn strong. That's true. When all you want to do is relax, unwind, get silly, have fun. Modern weed products strap you to a rocket like a confused chimp and blast you into outer space where you're too out of it to follow the plot of a movie, hold a conversation, or know it's not a good idea to eat 17 pizzas. Then the day after, I'm cloudy, I got the weed hangover, I'm foggy, there's a malaise, and you feel like your head is full of cobwebs because the weed that you took was designed to tranquilize a gorilla. Well, thankfully now we can just take the edge off, get a little giggly with our friends while keeping our feet on the earth. Thanks to our friends at dad Grass, I am obsessed with their new leisure drinks. As you know, I'm California sober. I don't drink alcohol but thanks to their leisure drinks I can be at a party with a can of something cold and delicious taking a edge off having some fun, getting a little bit silly. And it ships legally to all 50 states if you're over 21. This is too good to be true, but it's true. They're delicious sparkling cans of Yuzu flavored goodness that finally offer a casual, light hearted way to have fun and relax your body and mind with friends. I've been putting them out at parties, I've been sipping them with my family movie nights and because they're just a little lightness, not a trust fall into a black hole of of oblivion where I can laugh a little easier with watching the Parent Trap and eating pizza with my family and just enjoy it a whole lot more. 3 grams of THC, 6 grams of CBD, 2200 MG of Lion's Mane per can. It's mild dose and sessionable for a mellow experience. Happy and relaxed without the hangover. Stackable for a bigger buzz. And it's fast acting, meaning you're gonna know how you feel. 10, 20 minutes. It's not nine hours like other edibles. Get leisure drinks in all of dad Grass products including joints and gummies. Go to dad grass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20% off. Try the leisure drink dad grass.com weird. Use promo code weird for 20% off. We're also brought to us by our friends at Living Libations. If you guys are fans of this show and want an easy and fun way to support it, go to living libations.com and get something small or do what we did and redo your entire beauty cabinet, medicine cabinet and your health and beauty products. Because Living Libations is an amazing company that makes some of the most effective, effective, badass and premium products that are made with ingredients you can actually recognize and pronounce. Because the stuff you put on your skin gets into your body and so much stuff that you buy at the convenience stores is filled with toxic chemicals that were never intended for humans. Living Libations isn't like that. Their best skin ever moisturizer. Which by the way, I've had the same bottle of their best skin ever moisturizer for years. It lasts forever, it feels great and it brings out a healthy natural glow to your skin. Both Val and I use that. They have deodorant, they have baby products, they have Stuff for your teeth, for your gums. They have basic stuff all the way to top tier stuff. Get some living libations in your life and replace the random chemical nightmare that you're smearing on your skin and doing who knows what to your body. It is awesome. It's a great gift. And a great gift you can give yourself. Feelings. 15% off by going to livinglibations.com weird. That's 15% [e-mail] weird. All right, everybody, we're so glad you're here. Valerie, say it again now.

[Valerie]

You may get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Save it for the podcast. Save it for the podcast. Save it for the podcast. Turn your phone on.

[Valerie]

Welcome to Save it for the Podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Save it for. Oh, Save it for the podcast.

[Valerie]

Great name.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it?

[Valerie]

My friend just told me that she has a friend who has a podcast. I honestly can't even remember which friend told me this. She has a friend who has a podcast called this Playdate. And I think that's a great name.

[Pete Holmes]

This Playdate.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Which. And it's. I'm guessing, just based on the name that it's like, Mom's complaining about, like, parenting.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I like it. I don't know. I really. We've wandered into a room where I'm like, I don't know what the a good name for, because you ever go on a podcast app and you just don't know what to type in? Like, I'm waiting for the Netflix of podcasts because, like, I know some Spotify Apple will push certain ones.

[Valerie]

I don't have this problem. I have too many podcasts.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah. And then I saved them, so they're all in my library. So then I just, like, I don't like. For example, I found out Amy Poehler has a podcast. All right, subscribe. And now that's just in the mix. So it's constantly reminding me that that's one of the podcasts that I.

[Pete Holmes]

You have notifications on.

[Valerie]

No, no, no. I just mean when I open. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. This is notifications.

[Pete Holmes]

This is how hard I love Valley Heat. I almost turn podcast app notifications on.

[Valerie]

Aw, that's cute. Where it would be like, new episode of Valley Heat.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Because you never know when a Valley Heat's gonna hit you.

[Valerie]

I'm really excited to listen to his episode.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's this week. This is the. We made a weird compendium. Compendium.

[Valerie]

That's not. Is that a thing?

[Pete Holmes]

Superseding this Supersedes this doesn't supersede. Superimpose. This recedes based on my inhale. Am I healthy?

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that good? I feel like that's a dead man's.

[Valerie]

Inhale, so at least a smokers.

[Pete Holmes]

It sounds.

[Valerie]

I just had to do with a lung test.

[Pete Holmes]

I did that at Dr. Israel.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Should we say our doctor's name? I guess it doesn't matter.

[Valerie]

Good luck finding Dr. Israel. It's not the one you think it is.

[Pete Holmes]

What does that mean? Beth Israel.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Or like, you know, there's just so many.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait a minute. Beth Israel is a person.

[Valerie]

I know. I. The amount of times I'm searching for our doctor And I put Dr. Beth Israel.

[Pete Holmes]

Dr. Beth Israel.

[Valerie]

It's not.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's not Beth Israel.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And like, I. She was like, blow as hard as you can. As long as you can.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But it's not. There's no resistance. So if it was like a whistle.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It would be like. You got it.

[Valerie]

I was so cocky.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too.

[Valerie]

I was watching it just be consistently, like an inch under the breath line. It's supposed to be.

[Pete Holmes]

I just did the hearing test. We've been getting tested. The hearing test. I'm gonna say for all of the tests, you can get tested at a doctor's office. That are like, casual tests.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Kind of like, fun.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the gym of the doctor. Like gym class. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, we're gonna do some gym class shit. The hearing test is your favorite. You would. Anyone would love it. You go in a padded room. Yeah, let me close this door. And it's dead quiet. And you put on headphones, but they're not the sound. They're to block the sound. It's like, muffled. And then they play pings. And this hyper vigilant Jason Bourne motherfucker. Me.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, killing the hearing test.

[Valerie]

Of course.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, not only do I hear it, I can tell you how dangerous it is. But they play them on either side. But it's really tempting because it goes like, bing, bing, bing. But then, you know, there. And you're supposed to click a clicker every time you hear it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, you know, based on the rhythm, there's one after it. And you could cheat and just be like. Yeah, I'm sure. There was one pattern recognition test. I just made that. This. Yeah, I just made that. This. This is now a pattern recognition test.

[Valerie]

I just made that. This.

[Pete Holmes]

I just made that.

[Valerie]

This is also a great podcast name.

[Pete Holmes]

I just Made that this. Save it all up.

[Valerie]

I. Tests.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You blew into the thing, and it sucks.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And I wasn't.

[Pete Holmes]

If you don't know what we're talking about, you're blowing into a thing, and everyone thinks they're good at blowing.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Some more than others.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's like. Imagine blowing into a toilet paper roll.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just like. And then there's nothing.

[Valerie]

I know. You want a little resist.

[Pete Holmes]

You want it to be this.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's not. It's. And then you're like, oh, I'm.

[Valerie]

The Marlboro first went for it. I just went for distance. So, like, she stopped me. Like, I was like. And she was like, nope. And she was like, look at the chart. It has to jump up. You didn't blow hard enough. And I was like, man, I was going for distance.

[Pete Holmes]

It's brutal.

[Valerie]

No, I was gonna say I.

[Pete Holmes]

And then they're like, you're. You're okay. They were like, you're 33. Your age is like, 33.

[Valerie]

Oh, they didn't tell me that.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Valerie]

That's great. But maybe that's because it's bad. Eye tests are also like, that cozy kind of ear. I love going to the eye exams.

[Pete Holmes]

Brian Regan has the best bet where he's just like, oh, that's the doctor. Right up to you.

[Valerie]

Yes. Oh, my God, it's so true. It's asmr.

[Pete Holmes]

Better.

[Valerie]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

Or worse.

[Valerie]

Why is it so quiet? So dark and dark and. Oh, I love them.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the feeling of I need to poop. Became a place.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. I need to poop. Got struck by lightning and became a.

[Valerie]

Room, a whole room.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's a doctor in it.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

That goes like this.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God, I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's poop.

[Valerie]

Okay, but you ever take a poop.

[Pete Holmes]

And you can hear it coming out. It's like that.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. Okay. Just crossed the line. No, but you know how we have this thing and we've mentioned it on this podcast many times about, like, how bookstores make you have to poop.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Barnes and Pooples how, you know, playing hide and seek.

[Pete Holmes]

Bowels and Nobles Bowels. And I'm going to go to Bowels and Nobles. Bowels and. No. Oh, no pulse.

[Valerie]

No pulse.

[Pete Holmes]

Is a dead person in there pooping? Okay, there's a zombie pooping.

[Valerie]

But that's. That for the first time I've. I ever in my life. And maybe this is just a thing that does get mentioned all the Time. But Sean Hayes mentioned that on the Smartless podcast, He was like. He said to them, he was like.

[Pete Holmes]

Barnes and Noble, poops do.

[Valerie]

Yeah. He was like, do bookstores make you guys have to poop? And they both. Those were like, no. I don't know what you're talking.

[Pete Holmes]

Let me get a peg real fast to lower it. Jason Bateman.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

He looks like he's holding in a poop. Okay.

[Valerie]

I'm joking.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just saying. Because based on that, it makes me think he's holding in a poop. That's what I feel.

[Valerie]

I know. I was like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because if he was like, I always poop, I'd be like, he looks like a guy that's got a clean bowel. Like, I'm basing it on that. And I don't like that he doesn't know. And Will Arnett.

[Valerie]

I just am glad.

[Pete Holmes]

Come on, guys.

[Valerie]

Both of them would say if they knew what he was talking about.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, I agree.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why I'm like. There's a tightness that I don't like that. That implies.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

It's also like a. It feels disembodied or something. Like, I'm like, what?

[Valerie]

I think that's it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It also.

[Valerie]

It's disembodiment.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hide and go seek poops, too.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because everyone's playing hide and go seek.

[Valerie]

In a Barnes and Noble, obviously.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just how it's what you're doing, whether or not you know it. And you know what home base is, like, where you can, like, regroup. The Starbucks.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you go back in the store, and then you're kind of hiding from everyone that's in there.

[Valerie]

Yeah. You know what the difference could be is.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's someone in an aisle. You don't go down that aisle.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

You're playing hide and go seek.

[Valerie]

It's not this. I know people are gonna say that it's this because I was about to. But, like, it's maybe the people who get the coffee at the bookstore that.

[Pete Holmes]

After poop, it's not.

[Valerie]

But it's not that. Because I've had to do it my whole life.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't start drinking coffee.

[Valerie]

Coziness.

[Pete Holmes]

High school.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It's a specific type of coziness, and.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S hide and go seek poops. If you don't. You've never had to poop. Like, you need to poop when you're hiding in the cabinet underneath the sink.

[Valerie]

That's What I'm saying, that's where poops come. But that's because that's cozy and quiet.

[Pete Holmes]

No, we've probably talked about this before, but this is why dogs look at you when they're pooping. They want you to. This is also why I sometimes pretend I'm a sniper.

[Valerie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're hiding in a.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like you're up high, you're quiet, and you're protected. And that's what a wolf. That's why our dog is like, will you watch for a second? And they say that that's when motorcycle men get killed by, like, mountain lions. It's when they're peeing.

[Valerie]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Because a mountain lion is like, oh, he's draining.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He's not looking.

[Valerie]

He's draining in his main vein. And then the. The bob. Or is it a mountain lion has.

[Pete Holmes]

A sunglasses on, but it's those kind that don't really block the sun. They're like Venetian blinds.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what you pictured?

[Valerie]

Purple?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's like a hot purple.

[Valerie]

Yes. But now I'm picturing cartoon cheetah or leopard.

[Pete Holmes]

Chester. Cheetah.

[Valerie]

No, different.

[Pete Holmes]

Someone who does think it's easy to be cheesy.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

What if all the other cheetahs are like, it is easy.

[Valerie]

It's so, so easy being cheesy. One cheetah who doesn't think it's easy.

[Pete Holmes]

To be cheesy, and they put him on the billboard.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, is there anything easier than being cheesy?

[Valerie]

That it's incredibly difficult for me to not be cheesy.

[Pete Holmes]

As a mostly vegan, I'll tell you, it's so difficult to not be cheesy.

[Valerie]

Yeah. The default is cheesy.

[Pete Holmes]

The whole world. Name a culture. China. We did it. That doesn't really fuck with cheese.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But that. That is got to be over now.

[Valerie]

That's got to be the. The actual worst thing about China.

[Pete Holmes]

I shout out to my friend Steve, oh, Harvey, who used to go, no chees. Chinese food. No cheese and Chinese food. Which was a great bet. But like. And then we were like, Crab Rangoon is. But that's American Chinese. But I guarantee. I can't guarantee. But I'm pretty sure. I can't be pretty sure. But I'm fairly sure if you go to China, you can get cheese.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In everything.

[Valerie]

I mean, there's McDonald's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I mean.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Cheese is the first thing that nobody's going, like, we're losing our culture. You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

Yeah. They're like.

[Pete Holmes]

We're just like, no, cheese belongs to the earth. It does not any culture. And it is culture. You know how cheese got invented? They say how. There was a guy who. This guy. You know when your mom would put. You're gonna love how this fucking guy. This fucking guy is. I think you know when your mom would put milk in your thermos, like, what's up? What's up?

[Valerie]

Oh, God.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, for your lunchbox. For me, it was like, what? My mom would never put water in my thermos. Like, that was in the. In the 80s.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That was like giving up. Like, it was a travesty.

[Valerie]

We didn't drink water.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I mean. Yeah, water.

[Valerie]

No, that's a recent thing.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a recent thing. And so is pooping clean. Because you need that with water.

[Valerie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

So my mom would usually have orange juice. Cran apple. Remember the cran something wave of the 80s and 90s?

[Valerie]

Love if.

[Pete Holmes]

Go back to someone in the 80s and 90s and tell them that cran something isn't the thing anymore. No one wants it.

[Valerie]

I know that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

If you went into anybody's house in 1989 and said, give me a cran, you could say any. Any fruit.

[Valerie]

Cran orange that have it.

[Pete Holmes]

Cran apple.

[Valerie]

Cran. Cran.

[Pete Holmes]

Raspberry. Yeah, Cran Raspberry was the shit. And then we found out that it was like cran soda.

[Valerie]

Yeah. It was like a billion grams of sugar.

[Pete Holmes]

And you know where we found that out?

[Valerie]

Where?

[Pete Holmes]

I believe it was in Mean Girls. She's doing a cranberry juice fast. Oh, isn't. Isn't she?

[Valerie]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Or maybe that was Mean Girls, the TV show. It doesn't matter. So anyway, something. Leave it, leave it, leave it. Walk out of this movie.

[Valerie]

Okay, I'm out. I'm out.

[Pete Holmes]

Crayon. Yeah. What? Oh. So my mom would usually put a crayon something. An unholy cranberry.

[Valerie]

Ocean Spray.

[Pete Holmes]

Ocean Spray was everything.

[Valerie]

Ocean Spray was life.

[Pete Holmes]

And so was Clearly Canadian. If we want to talk about other things that have just gone the way of the dodo we loved. Clearly Canadian.

[Valerie]

Think I had. I.

[Pete Holmes]

It was clear soda.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Everything that went away in the end, it was because we found out it was soda.

[Valerie]

And I stand by that.

[Pete Holmes]

Disco. Turns out it was soda. Bell bottoms Ska. That was soda Ska was Soda. Ska was Soda Ska is what? Soda sounds like someone was looking at carbonated bubbles and going, it's funny that you say that. I was just talking about ska two days ago.

[Valerie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

No. Scott. Sorry. There's got to be a guy who loves Scott so much, they call him Scott.

[Valerie]

Our friend Scott.

[Pete Holmes]

Love Scott.

[Valerie]

Yes. Our friend Scott, like, was in ska bands.

[Pete Holmes]

That's embarrassing.

[Valerie]

Or. No, I think that's.

[Pete Holmes]

I was. I was in a PETA band.

[Valerie]

PETA.

[Pete Holmes]

PETA.

[Valerie]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not a thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a little suspicious that you're like, but your name is Peter. Yeah. No reason. Like, you're just backing into a Scott club and your name is Scott. Get it? Get over it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, my mom would occasionally put milk in my thermos. And I remember, even as a kid being like, this is. This is not okay.

[Valerie]

No, there's something about the metal. Like, the metal inside. The stainless steel inside.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's a modern thermos. This is a plastic inside. This is a he, man.

[Valerie]

Okay. I. I was born in 89.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know. And this is encased. Yeah, this is. This is a good area for how our age difference is going to show up. It's encased in a hot, red plastic lunchbox. So it's cooking in there, and there's milk. Drink it. And I'm like, you also don't know it's milk. As a grownup, you'd, of course, like, look or smell as a kid. You're just drinking and, like, it's surprise milk. Which of all the milks. Surprise milk is the worst milk.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm drinking surprise milk. This is how cheese was invented. They think they don't know, but they. One theory, or maybe one story is that there was a man, this fucking guy, had a canteen, and he put. I think it was goat's milk in it. He's riding across the desert and something about the heat and the movement of the camel. So it's sloshing and it's heating. He goes for a drink, and out comes basically, like, cottage cheese. It's disgusting. It's rough. So it's not the cheese that we know.

[Valerie]

That's terrible.

[Pete Holmes]

Cheese is sort of like cheese is to milk what Skittles is to sugar. How do you do it?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What I'm saying is it takes this thing that's kind of earthy and strange.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Sugar isn't that strange, but, you know, it's granular and whatever, and you somehow transform it. Like. Like a wheel of cheddar cheese. Like, you got this from milk. Milk.

[Valerie]

I know. And how are there so many different types?

[Pete Holmes]

So many.

[Valerie]

So many different blue cheese.

[Pete Holmes]

What did you Do. To blue cheese. Did you tell a ghost story to regular cheese.

[Valerie]

Or. A very sad story.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's better. Gorgonzola. You. You kept gaslighting it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You told it. Gorgonzola is a traumatized cheese, and it tastes amazing.

[Valerie]

It does.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the veal of cheese.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Something bad happened to that cheese. And it's so good.

[Valerie]

So good. So remember this morning I gave Lila some pineapp. Pineapple. And she spit it out and was like, this tastes terrible. This tastes like wine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I really don't know how she knows what wine tastes like, but she's right. Like fermented fruit.

[Pete Holmes]

It fermented.

[Valerie]

She also one time.

[Pete Holmes]

How does she know that? But this is.

[Valerie]

She's.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't drink wine.

[Valerie]

Special skill for this. We don't drink wine in the house.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't drink wine out of the house.

[Valerie]

I. Yeah, I don't even drink wine. Like, I drink, but I don't drink wine.

[Pete Holmes]

That was, like, one of her past lives. She was like, what is this wine?

[Valerie]

And one time she was eating a popsicle that was like a watermelon Popsicle that was homemade. That was a little old. And she was like, this tastes like eel, and I know what she means.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

There is a type of way that watermelon, when it's, like, not really ripe anymore, is kind of fishy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But how does she know?

[Pete Holmes]

Why did she say eel?

[Valerie]

Like, she doesn't. I didn't even know she knew what an eel was.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's weird.

[Valerie]

It's. I'm telling you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's weird.

[Valerie]

Or she has, like. She's like, a savant for, I don't know, Taste similes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You know, this is weird. It brought up. You said this yesterday to me super casually, and it kind of spooked me, to be honest, but I was like, I had all this therapy yesterday, and I'm doing a lot of heavy work. Not. Not horrible, but, like, moving. I'm helping a friend move, and it's me, and, like, there's no pizza. It's rough. But making all this progress and getting, like, a vocabulary for my past, and I really. I'm really priming you to say the thing you said about how sometimes relationships feel harder. Do you remember that? And that. That's a. Oh, yes. Okay. I don't want to steal your punchline, because it was very meaningful to me. So I don't know if anybody that does therapy knows the phenomenon of, like, you're. You're. It's almost like breaking out of a prison or something. And meaning you have all these. You have your Rita Hayworth poster in your cell, and you're digging behind it. Even though that's not what's happening. There is something that kind of feels like I'm breaking family patterns and I'm escaping them, and I'm looking at them honestly and not with any malice. There's forgiveness and love as well, but there's a lot of like, holy shit. What the fuck? So I had a lot of that, and it's starting to stack up. It's actually pretty exciting. If it was a movie. If you're watching a movie about my therapy, you'd be like, oh, some of these things are finally.

[Valerie]

Yes, it's happening.

[Pete Holmes]

Connecting.

[Valerie]

It's moving.

[Pete Holmes]

And you get more comfortable with words. I'm gonna say that I need to say this, whether or not these are my words. But you get more comfortable with, like, trauma, abuse, inappropriate, wrong wounding, all that sort of stuff. And then my mom called me that night, and I had just talked to her, and you were like. And I was like, it's like she heard me doing therapy.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You were like, yeah, I think that is what it is. And I was like. Like I was not chill about you casually being like, yeah, that's some telepathy tape stuff. She feels you. And my mom, in the phone call, said, I feel this gap. And she's always talking about that. I've been thinking about that so much. Like, how to appropriately respond to that without being uncaring. Because you want to be like, yeah, there is a gap. Like the way we were when I was a child, that's gone. And that's sad, and I'm sorry. But what you're feeling is my need for autonomy, independence, and a healthy boundary.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And, yeah, it feels like a gap. You don't want a gaslighter and be like, what gap?

[Valerie]

Right. No, I think. I think there is sort of a version where you don't rescue her, but you are compassionate. So it's sort of like, I know things are different between us, and I know that that is really painful.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Yeah, that's right.

[Valerie]

You know, it's just. It is like. Like how we would do with Leela, where it's like, the boundary stays. But I know it's really hard.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. You know, you can't fix it, but you can honor it and be gentle about it, but you can't. It's hard. So you said sometimes a sign that your therapy's going well.

[Valerie]

Is that the real it's harder to be with your parents.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes the relationship gets. Yeah. Chunkier.

[Valerie]

It's actually because you. You sort of have. If you don't mind me saying, I think you wouldn't. You have an element to your healing that I think might be specifically masculine. I'll say not, like for men, but it's sort of a masculine approach. And it's also very enneagram3, which is achieving.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. You said this last night. It meant so much to me.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Where you. Because you said, like, I, I. You said something like, I just. I'm doing all of this work and I want to feel like I'm healed and I can do this. And, like, why. And it's just such an emphasis on, like, why can I. Why do I get so upset by this phone call? Why does this still upset me? I'm doing all this work. And you've sort of always had that as long as I've known you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. To give a little backstory there, we had. My mom and I had a totally fine conversation, and I still felt totally lit up by, like, all of these crazy, difficult feelings. And I was like, what? What?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And I just sort of said, like, what if the game isn't like, if you do all the right things, then all of a sudden these phone calls will be easy. It's like, it might always be hard, and in fact, more you heal and see what has happened. It might be harder, or at the very least, it might get harder before it gets easier. But that game of, like, my report card is how well I handle these phone calls is just adding extra stress and pressure onto an already overloaded system.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. And so you have to change the metric. It's not pass fail sometimes. I did. So I've been doing other Ship, which is a breathwork app. This isn't an ad. I am going to reach out to them because I like partnering with people, blah, blah, but they're great. And I was doing all of these grief breath works because I was so shook. Again, I want to be very clear. Nobody did anything wrong. It wasn't like a hot. It was a normal conversation. And afterwards, the cognitive dissonance of, like, doing this work and also. And, like, yearning for the same thing, but knowing, like, having to say to my parts, my. My child part. Like, you're craving connection, intimacy, love all this stuff. Like, let's get it a different way. Like, you're not gonna be without. Just trust me to get it for you. Like, let's do it this way. So difficult. Feels like grief did some breath work and they were like, very clear. Like, grief and loss and all that sort of stuff isn't a hole. It's like a portal. It's like, it's not something to be sewn up, something to go move through. And I know we hear all that stuff, but when you're feeling it and someone says that, you're like, oh, I'm real. Fix it, Felix.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I can fix it, but. But everyone is, I think, because it's so uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like, it's very much a good news, bad news situation because it's sort of like, I know your brain wants to fix this to alleviate the pain so quickly, but there is actually more pain being cultivated in the efforting of resisting it. Fixing it in some ways is sort of resisting what is. So the good news is that actually, if you put your effort into just being with what is, and being like, this may always be hard and messy, but my capacity to be with it can grow. And that's actually the only thing that we really have control over.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. What a letdown. How disappointing. But it's true.

[Valerie]

It's great. But it also is great news because you actually do less.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

The answer is do less. And then you get a relief feeling of like, oh, right, there actually sort of is any. It's like when my therapist says, I've said it so many times, anything can happen to anyone at any time. Like, she'll say that as a way to soothe my anxieties of, like, what if this happens? And what if I do, you know? And it just neutralizes it? It's like a nuclear weapon to your fear.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And being like, what if it. It may always be like this. It's like, seems like bad news. But then it sort of is just like, right, so what am I doing here?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, we don't know. It's the perhaps story.

[Valerie]

Yeah, it's the perhaps, but it's also being like. And so if we just assume that it's always like this, then what can you do from there is really just like, okay, then I can just practice being in it and being okay. Being.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's funny that you say that because. And I know I share this probably every episode of this podcast, but it's as frequently as I need to remind myself of it, but, yes, thank you. And how Ram Dass used to say, yes, thank you is, I will eat it all. But there's, like, a eagerness to it. So I have a big plate of Family feelings. Family drama.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, yeah, I'm gonna eat this. Like, this is distinctly human.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm alive.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm not even pretending I like it, but I'm, like, going with it.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I know I say this a lot, but it's like, this is last night, and I always forget it. Like, there'll be a good hour. I'm doing the breath work. But probably the breathwork regulated me and allowed me to find my greatest. One of my greatest comforts, which is, yes, thank you. I was like, yes, I'm a guy. I'm having this issue 45. I'm right on schedule.

[Valerie]

This is perfect. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

It felt great.

[Valerie]

That's really good. And that's the kind of perspective, you know, you're. You might not have in the moment that you're dysregulated.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But the more that you make it through a dysregulated time and then on the other side, get that perspective, the more you'll trust that that is the perspective. So even if you can't feel it when you're dysregulated, you're like, I know that there are times when I see clearly, and I even see how this is beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what was humbling about that experience last night, is I was so wrought. Like, wrecked.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, remember I was installing an app on my phone, and it disappeared. I almost had a little weep about that, because sometimes you're feeling so much, and then your phone, I know, by its grace, gives you an opportunity to get mad at something else, something safer.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

So I couldn't find the app. It vanished. But when you search for it, it was there. And I was like, really? Like, my fists are, like, clenching. And, yeah, Leela was there. So I, like, got it together. Not that, you know, she. She knows what feelings look like, and we're okay with feelings as a family, but I was like, this is. This is not chill.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm gonna put it aside for now. But I forget what I was saying.

[Valerie]

Oh, that. You were just so wrecked from it, and.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Oh. And. And that's what was humbling, was I was like, I just have to remind myself, you will not always. No feeling is forever.

[Valerie]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're not a failure. All these Fs. No feeling is forever. And you're not a failure. It's okay. Just kind of work. Don't even work. Go through it.

[Valerie]

Right. So this is exactly when I get in my, like, babushka mode. As you call it, where, like, you know, the seasons of life are the moments and, you know, days where you've seen me, like. Like wrapping myself in a blanket, having a hot water bottle, sitting by a fire, sipping tea, not really talking, having little gentle cries. Like, that's, that's. Those are. That's how I have learned to respond to overwhelm, where it's really like there actually is nothing you can do but make yourself comfortable. It's like a death.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Valerie]

It's like. Okay, we're sort of in hospice right now, so I'm going to try to make myself as comfortable as possible together to go through this transition. And you. I saw you also kind of learning that and doing that where you. Not that you.

[Pete Holmes]

You.

[Valerie]

You've done it before. It's not like you're learning it, but, like, you did the right thing. And you were told Leela that, like, I was gonna put her to bed because you needed to.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I said my stomach was upset and I had to go. I was like, I have to go to the bathroom.

[Valerie]

That was. Yeah, that. But that was the right thing to do.

[Pete Holmes]

I was.

[Valerie]

I saw you taking care of yourself in that way.

[Pete Holmes]

I appreciate that. We haven't talked about that. That was. That was the first time in six years that I was like, I need to take care of myself right now.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I put my feet above my heart, which you can do with a chair. I do it on the couch. A doctor told me that to get into your parasympathetic nervous system, which is like your regulatory nervous system, as opposed to your fight flight. If you put your feet. If you lay on the floor and put your feet on a chair. So you're kind of like in a. Like a four on its side. You do that, I think you said for 10 minutes. It like completely reverses everything. So I'm doing that. I'm doing the breath work. And I did. There were a couple moments where I was a little worried you might have come in because I was having, like, a hand on my face. Just cry. Because that's great. And I'm not saying this to just, like, share. I'm saying this because I want. If people are relating, I want them to feel unalone. Is that like there's all this work that you do in therapy and you're trying to go like, some things happened, and in my case, it was like a million small things. Like, it was a long term gas leak. And you go like, we need to deal with that. To face that. To ask Our. Our insides. Like, how did that feel? We have to get honest about it. And then like, there's this resistance where the child wants to be like that wants its parents so badly. It's like, she made a mistake or he made a mistake. Like, it's like they're crying. They're like, they just made a mistake.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, what are you doing? And you have to be like. Like, we're not casting anybody out. And yes, you can forgive them. And it. And it is a mistake. And everybody's doing the best they can and things hurt us. Like, it's both. You said that. It's both.

[Valerie]

It's both.

[Pete Holmes]

We can have a gentle, open hand. Everybody's doing the best they can. And then. But when it comes to healing, it doesn't help to just go, everybody did the best they can. There's a second part where you go, like, what did it feel like when everybody was doing the best thing?

[Valerie]

Yes, that's right. It's both. They did the best they could and it wasn't enough. And they did the best they could.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And to the child self, it's just like, who cares, Right? I want my mommy. And it's like, I know, but this brings in. Go ahead. What were you gonna say?

[Valerie]

Well, yeah, I. That is. And I could tell you were a little. Not fully. Definitely not fully identified with your child self. But I could see when you were saying that last night that that voice was big. And that voice is big when we talk to our parents. Like, and the pining and the longing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And that's why, like, the best thing we can do is build a relationship between our adult self and our child self. So the child self just. Just slowly starts to trust the adult self, where the adult can be like, I know you want your mommy and you'll. You're willing to do the type of relationship that hurt you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

To have her.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

But I'm just letting you know there's another way. And you said the perfect thing where it was like, you want validity, you want to be seen, you want love, you want safety, and you can have those things in other ways. And that's.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Well, that's. We'll get into. We'll go into the. Somehow we're already at the halfway here. But like, somebody, my friend Sulara, recommended the book Nonviolent Communication, which I had heard about, and for some reason I resisted because something about non violent. I like, took that personally. Like, oh, I'm a violent communicator.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And that goes back to the story for the longtime fans where somebody asked you if you knew about nonviolent parenting.

[Valerie]

At the exact worst moment.

[Pete Holmes]

And we were like, oh, we're violent parents. So I had like an aversion to it. And we'll go into it a little bit more in the second half here. But like, it's in a nutshell. Well, I can't do it in a nutshell. One aspect of it is taking ownership of how you feel based on your needs and getting really clear about both how you feel and what need it's tied to. And that can be really simple with certain things. Like, I'm feeling sad that my need for. For me, it's usually like recognition or validity. Like if you ignore me at a dinner, you know, everybody knows that's my biggest trauma is if you specifically, Valerie, ignore me. I feel sad and angry that my need for connection isn't being met. And that doesn't mean. So that's non violent communication. Which in every movie where a couple goes to therapy, that's how they start talking to each other. And everybody's like, what? It's like a joke. Turns out it's not a joke. It's fucking beautiful. But what's key is, like, you're allowed to say, like, well, I'm feeling scared that my need for autonomy isn't being met. I want to connect with other people and that's a valid need. And then you go in with the spirit of, like, we both want to meet these needs and we both want to in the spirit of life and making both of our lives wonderful and more wonderful. So there's like an optimism. And you start looking at needs as like a gift and your feelings as a gift. And me telling you what I need is like an exciting opportunity because you want to love me and I want to love you. And we want our life to be wonderful. So it's. Instead of being like, ashamed that I'm a man, especially with a need, or you being worried that you're a needy woman. These are the stereotypes that has too many needs. We can go like, no, it's beautiful to have a need. And with a lot of things I'm realizing, like with my mom, I can't identify. Like, I'm feeling angry and sad that my need for autonomy isn't being honored.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But then there's. I'm going to read the rest of the book, but there's a whole slew of like, shadowy, weird feelings that I don't. That aren't as clean. I will say in everyday Sort of interactions. It's really been, I'm gonna say already life changing for me to go like, what is the need here?

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's great.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And instead of going, so one quick example, then we'll go to the break. But like a big word in my family growing up was, I feel neglected or you're neglecting me. So that is something that someone would. Someone.

[Valerie]

Someone that could be true.

[Pete Holmes]

Could be true. Might guilt me into, like giving them more attention. And he would consider that to be violent. He doesn't use that term. He doesn't go, that's violent. But.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But it is.

[Valerie]

Yes. Because it has a judgment attached to it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's an interpretation.

[Valerie]

And it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he goes the. It's. Krishnamurti said, the height of intelligence is observation without interpretation. As if you can like non, non judgmentally observe something. That's like the scientific method. You're looking at something without a bias and just seeing it clean. So we need to do that with our. So she. Somebody might say, you're neglecting me. And yes, that is something that was said by my mom and my family a lot was like, I feel neglected. That's an interpretation. You are choosing to not. You're at crossroads where you could pay attention to me and you don't. You keep choosing not to. But like, you might just say, I feel scared. That's so much better.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel scared and sad.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That my need for intimacy isn't being met. And then again, that doesn't mean someone drops everything and does it. But it's. It's taking ownership. I don't feel neglected. You neglected me. And I feel neglected. It's just, I have a need for intimacy. It's complete ownership. It's really exciting stuff. It's cool. And it's me. It was me. I have a need.

[Valerie]

That's right. And I would imagine even phrasing it that way, Frasier gives you like. Well, it does. So I was saying that our friend Michael Gunger, when he, he went through a real non violent communication phase, he might still be. But when he was telling me about it, it was sort of like, oh, it's. It's the opposite of codependence and the opposite of like what. What both of us, I think do, which is like, take the responsibility for other people's feelings. And it is. It's total independence. It's keeping it with that person. So it's like, yeah, you know, I feel this way because my need is. And it's totally theirs. It's not it's not like. Yeah, it's just. I'm saying everything that you're saying already. But. Yeah, no, but it's keeping with that person. And then what I was going to say is, if you're trying, if you're turning your experience into this phrase, even by doing that, there's such a richness to be able to be like, do I have like that need? And why do I have that need? And is that a need that I can meet myself?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right. Well, that's what I'm trying to say to my child self.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have a need for intimacy, safety, connection, affection, vulnerability all. And reciprocity. You have a need for. It's totally normal.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm telling you, we can do it.

[Valerie]

We can meet those needs.

[Pete Holmes]

Those are your needs. Let's meet them. You have a habit of getting them here, here or here. And my mom has needs. I want to help my mother meet her needs. It's not at the detriment of any need is seen as equal. It's like a negotiation. I'm not saying I'm near having a conversation like that with my family, but in my friendships and stuff. And there's something he gave an example in the book, it's called nonviolent communication. And the audiobook, he's reading it, but he's clearly not just reading it word for word. And it feels like you're just hanging with this guy. He almost sounds like a dj. I almost want to play a snippet of it. A DJ of AM Jazz Radio.

[Valerie]

Like a smooth.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. He's like. And one thing I want to talk to you about is what we might say. Well, it's also like Mr. Rogers. He'll go, I'm going to say a few things and you tell me if someone's expressing a need or not. Living with you is like living with a wall. I'm not hearing a need there. You know what I mean? And you're just like, what is this? It's like, is this episode brought to us by the letter R? I'm loving it.

[Valerie]

That does sound nice.

[Pete Holmes]

It's therapeutic just listening to it. So definitely get the audiobook. I love it. But it's also not always like deep, dark rocket science, psychotherapy, meaning somebody's on a. They're on a train going between terminals and they're late for their flight. And the guy goes, could this train be going any slower? And then the wife goes like, I think it's electronically timed. And he's like, because I'm not hearing a need. He needs to be like, I'm feeling angry because I just want you to validate my feelings. Just tell me that, that you see how I feel.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That is the end of violence. That's the whole point. He even talks to like tribes that are at war that have been killing each other back and forth for centuries. And when he teaches them this, they're like, oh, we don't need to be killing each other. Like crazy stuff.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's really, really great.

[Valerie]

I do feel like you and I are good at this before we even knew for sure. No, I'm, I'm. And I don't think that you think that we aren't. But I just, I think this. I guess what, what I'm trying to say is I think this works really well with our already our tendency to want to say something in the. The most non confrontational way and to in general both be pretty good at knowing what need isn't being met.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And trying. Yeah. And trying to communicate that to each other in the most tender way that isn't going to make the person feel bad.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. The. Where we, I think have a blind spot as a couple is it's near impossible for me to say I feel sad and angry to you if I'd be afraid. But that's what's brilliant about it. I'm saying like this morning we drove to school and Leila didn't have her shoes. And it's still hard, I would imagine, for you to say I feel sad and angry because my need to. See I'm not great at the needs, but my need to, to have order.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Have predictability, reliable and, and solidarity. Feel together and.

[Valerie]

Yeah. To feel supported.

[Pete Holmes]

My need to feel supported isn't being met. Is still not completely easy to say.

[Valerie]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

We, like, I might be like, I, I'm sorry but I would, you know.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But then he would say please stop and say your need. And you'd be like, I'm not. I'm like not even halfway through the book. So I'm not an expert at it. In fact, I'm gonna compendium as a compendium to the book. I'm gonna watch some youtubes where he's giving lectures and stuff. Cause I'm all in. It's also making me realize I never really know how I feel. Right away I go, I'm angry. Well, right under that is always sad. And then the other one is always afraid. Like it's like I'm scared. Like I'm scared That I'm vanishing. My need for acknowledgment isn't being met because I think I'm going away.

[Valerie]

Like, it's so silly, but it's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's helping me get good at both identifying my need and my emotion, which most of the time we just go, well, that guy's an idiot. Like that. That. Like the. He gives an example about when you're driving and someone. This. This just happened to me. Someone I was driving on the road with. Two times, they didn't signal. We got to stop signs, and they didn't signal. And in my. I hear my mind go, this person never signals. And he's like, it's so much better to just go. The last two times this guy has been at a stop sign, he didn't signal. It's just. It's just gentler.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And more valid.

[Valerie]

True.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you ever not signaled? And are you just suddenly a guy who doesn't signal? No one likes being treated that way, and that's what makes them retaliate. You go. You never use. Your signal is not accurate or good language. It's really interesting.

[Valerie]

It's not helpful.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't sell it enough.

[Valerie]

Then it instantly makes the person get defensive. Yeah. It's interesting to think about it in terms of our relationship, because I do think we. We are so tender towards the other person being disappointed in us. And anyway, if so, anything that feels that way feels really unbearable.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

And then, like, protectors come out and, you know, whatever. But. But I also. Yeah, I don't know. It's really interesting to think of. I think when. When it really matters, we do that. We have done it. But even in that case, it was like, yeah, I was pretty cheesed. Cheesed for five minutes about that. And like, you knew I was cheesed and you knew exactly why. And. And then, like, it got metabolized and I didn't think about it at all for sure.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I'll come couple compliment. One of the things that were something about you and I merging into this thing we call Pete and Val. Really, it feels like emerging if you're freaking out. Not that you were freaking out, but you know what I mean? If you're freaking out about the shoes, I won't be freaking out about the shoes.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like two. Two sides of a brain or two sides of a heart. It's like we never freak out about the same thing. And if you weren't freaking out about the shoes, if you were taking a turn just being completely groovy I might have filled the gap and been like, this is. I mean, we gotta wear shoes. You know, like, that's a wonderful aspect of our relationship.

[Valerie]

And I do, you know, I'm acknowledging that I do have a conflict. Adverse, you know, tendencies. And maybe some people could listen to this and be like, that's just suppressing your feelings. But I do feel like I'm just gonna say the sentence as I mean it, and then maybe it's not right. Just fully recognizing that. I do think the key to a healthy relationship, at least for me and probably you, is not mentioning every. Not making everything a thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you nuts? This is, like, one of my cornerstones.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So as much as I love feelings.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And have a lot of them. And, you know, it's. This is a delicate thing to teach Leland. We're not really teaching. We're just teaching her that feelings are okay and we're gonna deal with them.

[Valerie]

There'll be a time for this.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, one of the great lessons I learned about how to get along in the world is you can't be freaking out all the time. I just did a podcast where I was the guest. It was. It's called how to Get a Girlfriend. And we were just talking about the right mix and looking for the cues. Is now the time to tell them about my family?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or are you gonna freak them out? Is the first date the right time to talk about it? Might be with you and I. We got into it pretty fast right away, but that's because the cues were there. And, like, the way to lose a partner or have a date go sideways is sharing nothing and feel nothing. But then on the other side of the spectrum, it's sharing everything and feeling everything.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? So, yeah. Restraint is part of the mix.

[Valerie]

And for me, I just. It's. I sort of run. And I think you do this too. Like, run things through a filter where I'm like, is this something I can just metabolize myself?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And, like, in that case, it was like, we've had the shoe conversation so many times, you know that, like, that's a thing that I get frustrated about. You knew I was frustrated about it. We don't need to be like, I don't need to be like, this is so frustrating for me. I always feel like I'm the only one who, Like, I don't need to be doing any of that. We got it.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't have to win, and you don't have to humiliate me.

[Valerie]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's interesting. Again, I'm not at this in the book, but it's like, well, I have a need to humiliate you. I don't know. Let's go to the mids just because we're almost at an hour here. So sorry, but we'll be right back. I believe the ads, if I'm remembering correctly, are three minutes. It's three minute little ad break and we'll be right back. And do try one of these things and then when we come back. And do try one of these things when we come back. I was on my Rupert retreat, so we'll talk a little bit about that and then we'll bid you adieu. Katie, roll that beautiful brain footage. I just got back from the road and of course when I'm packing and unpacking, I'm taking out my ritual multivitamins and my ritual synbiotic plus pre, post and probiotic because it is a game changer. It's changed the way my body feels and I feel ready to face the day and I never leave home without it. I know that's another product slogan, but it's true. I never leave home without it. According to the cdc, fewer men than women meet the minimal daily intake recommendation for fruit and veg. And men are more likely to overvalue exercise and undervalue nutrition. Well, dudes, wake up. Stop with Ritual, a multivitamin scientifically developed for men to help fill key nutrient gaps in your diet. And I can say anecdotally from my own experience, it's night and day before ritual after ritual. When I get my blood work done, my doctor and myself, we see the results, we see the difference. And as a mostly vegan person, I got a lot of gaps. And ritual fills it in with traceable ingredients. We're looking at these capsules that got minty aftertaste. So it's a pleasure to take. Obviously the pre, post and probiotic. Your gut is like a second stomach and it's nourishing and replenishing that. Plus it's a delayed release capsule, which is two things. One means it breaks down in your large intestine, which is where it can actually be absorbed. Two, it won't make you nauseous, which is key for me because I do a lot of fasting, so it doesn't make you nauseous. If you've ever taken zinc on an empty stomach, you know how important this is. Plus a lot of multivitamins people are like, oh, you just pee it out and you even see it makes your pee Pee look like you ate a highlighter for lunch. Ritual doesn't do that because it's not breaking down like that. It breaks down in a way that your body can actually absorb for results you can actually feel. And I am excited for this offer for you all to try it. Essential for men as a quality multivitamin from a company you can actually trust. You can get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com weird. That's ritual.com weird for 25% off your first month. We're also brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. You guys probably see me all over social media talking about Magic Mind because it is an absolute game changer. I always, always, always have it with me. It's in my carry on. It's in my car. It's at the studio. Obviously, we put it out for the guests and selfishly, I want the guests to drink it because Magic Mind elevates your mood. It also kind of calms you down. That's the adaptogens in there. So it's calming you and stimulating you with matcha. So it puts you right in that peak state in the middle where you can be creative, where you can be focused, where you can be light hearted, have fun and make good stuff. Athletes have Gatorade now. Creators have creator aid. It is flow state in a bottle. It doesn't interrupt a fast too. Speaking of fasting, which I love, I take it on my fast days. Doesn't upset my stomach, but gives me that clean burning fuel to create, to dial in and focus, not jittery dialed in. I talk about it so much. You guys know I mean it. We got a special offer. Go to MagicMind Co weird and use my discount code at checkout. Weird for limited 20 off your order. Do yourself a favor and subscribe. I've never been upset that the the box. I got one right on my desk. When my magic mind shows up, I'm stoked. I give it to friends. I drink it constantly. MagicMind Co weird. Use discount code weird at checkout for 20 off your first order. All right, we're back. I. It's so. It's my birthday on the 30th. We're close.

[Valerie]

Happy birthday to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Happy bird hat.

[Valerie]

Happy bird Herper Birder, Popo Gigio.

[Pete Holmes]

I I want to say every year. I just love it so much. But there's a Rupert Spira. As you know, I talk about Rupert a lot. Retreat. And I went last year and I went this year and it's in March And I absolutely love it. And it was heaven on earth. That's all. I mean, it's not all I want to say.

[Valerie]

It's not even close to all you're gonna say. But I do want to request in the Re Spira jukebox that you talk about the, like, shaking activity that you did. Oh, yeah, you do.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's not an officially sanctioned Rupert Spira activity.

[Valerie]

That just part of your experience.

[Pete Holmes]

You've. You've dialed it in, Val, I really appreciate it. So the thing I wanted to share was when you're with a group of 134 people that are all interested in their true nature and acknowledging and experiencing their true nature and the nature of their nature being peace and happiness and that. That nature is shared with everyone and everything, the vibration of that group. I could cry. It's off the charts. I'm not saying this is, this is a path for everybody or that anybody that came would have that experience, but if this, if that, if his works resonate with you. So we used to go to the Ram Dass retreat and there's a lot of singing and there's hugging and stuff. There's a lot drier. But the, the vibe of it was thicker than applesauce. It was. It was just the thickest. And so many people were in their 70s and 80s. And I just get to talk to my elders. I'm talking with elder, like, people older than me that have a beautiful way of looking and interpreting the world. And. And there were people with needs and you could talk with them and then you'd have needs and you talk with them. And it was a dopamine detox and like an absolute spotlight of just loving kindness and beautiful. I couldn't, couldn't have loved it more. And then my friend Tatiana, who is trained in all sorts of modalities of therapy, when we were just me, her and my friend Bob and occasionally our friend Chris would join us. We would go into a free room and we did something that I'm going to describe here that I highly recommend if it's interesting to anyone listening, that you try it because it's free, it's easy, and it's so dumb to be like. And it works. But it's called trauma release exercise. And what you do is you lay on the ground with your knees up and you lift. Oh, I'm sorry. Not with your knees up, with your. Like if you were soldier, your feet touching so the butterfly. But with your back on the ground so your feet are touching and you're in the butterfly position. And then you lift your butt off the ground for two minutes. And what that does is it fatigues your hamstrings, I guess it fatigues your legs. So you're trying to, like, find a channel. It's. It's hard to explain, but you're looking for a pathway to a certain response from your body. And the way to find it is to exhaust your legs. So you exhaust. The point of that is while you're holding your butt up. If you're me, I tend to be a very embodied person. Not always, but, you know, I'll start shaking right away. And then when you're shaking, you can put your feet flat on the ground. And now you have your knees up like windshield wipe. Well, straight up. And now like windshield. No, your butt's on the ground.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

After you've started shaking or after the two minutes, now your knees are up, and you can move them farther away from each other or closer to each other. And what happens is you'll start shaking. And I used to have this in deep meditation sometimes, like, kind of almost like self hypnosis sort of things that start shaking. Turns out this is an interpretation, but it's my experience that if you allow your body, if you give your body, like, permission to work itself out, it will be so thrilled.

[Valerie]

Yes. It's like, thank you. This is what I've been waiting for.

[Pete Holmes]

But unlike so you dance and there's exercise and there's, you know, all the things we do. This is very low effort and very high efficacy. Meaning if you. So you're moving your feet, your knees apart just an inch at a time. Is it there? Is it there? Is it there? When you find it, you just start. I can. Mine is really loose now. Like, I can. I showed you at breakfast.

[Valerie]

This is so funny. I. I cackled laughing the first day. You were like. What you have to picture is like, Pete is like doing like a Shakira impression. Yeah, like the way Shakira used to, like, shake her chest.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, not, you know, that's the way my body moves. Different bodies are going to move different ways. I get a lot of show.

[Valerie]

Look, I'm not. I'm not trying to do this.

[Pete Holmes]

I can do it right now.

[Valerie]

This is involuntary. And I just was like, what do.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean I could do it? Right now it looks like, amazing. I don't want to make fun of it because I want people to do it, but you do kind of look like you're being abducted by an alien. You do kind of look like you're in some sort of seizure.

[Valerie]

I'm so into this.

[Pete Holmes]

But my. You do it for 15 minutes. If that's appealing to you, you can even. Tatiana said she does it when she watches tv. Like, it doesn't have to be like a meditation. And I repeat in my mind, I'm all yours, darling. Meaning to my body. Like, just. You do whatever you need to do. It rolls me on my side, and I'm shaking on my side. I have all. Remember every time I take mushrooms, which I did recently. Oh, my God. We could have talked about that.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll talk about that next time. But, like. Or maybe this time. I don't know. But, like, I always go, there's a. I want someone to crack my back. I just can't get it. Yeah, there's a tension in my lower back, and I can't get it. And you are like. You say that every time. This is. It goes right to that. It goes right. So I've been like, where's the masseuse? Where's the chiropractor that can get this? And it's like, oh, it's. You just lay down and weaken your whatever and then let your body shake. So it would sit me up, up and crack my back perfectly.

[Valerie]

Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

This happens sometimes in tm, too. They call it the cosmic chiropractor, where you'll start moving involuntarily, and it'll just kind of, like, fix your neck. I used to have that with TM as well. So this is just like this really fast expressway to giving your body permission to work itself out. Have all these memories coming back. Sense memories of being a baby. Stuff comes up from my childhood. Like, memories, weird stuff. All manageable because I'm being, like, supported by my body. And then finally, to your Shakira point, once you find the road.

[Valerie]

Yeah, the frequency.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't even have to do the lifting my butt out. Like, I said, I could do it right now, right now.

[Valerie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

It's amazing. And I do it after therapy now. I. I mean, some people call it tension release. Some people call it trauma. Really? Trauma release exercise. Because you really feel that your body is like, you got something in your shoulder. I'm gonna shake it off of you.

[Valerie]

Well, every. I mean, I. I'm sure most of the listeners of this podcast know the, like, this is the thing that animals do. That is. This is why, like, animals aren't traumatized and carrying around complex ptsd.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because they almost die, often daily. And then they shake their bodies. Their bodies Shake it all out. Like, the energy. The. A feeling clearly has energy. That's what we feel, is the energy of that feeling. And then that just gets stuck and stored in our body. And one of the few ways to get rid of it is to shake it out. So I love this. I haven't done it yet.

[Pete Holmes]

It's great doing it with someone else. I did it alone yesterday, and it's not quite as. I don't know. There's something I like about doing it with someone else.

[Valerie]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But, yeah, we will do it and I really recommend it. In closing, just because we had such a long first half and such a short second half here, I will say it was a friend of ours birthday. I've always done, like, smaller doses of mushrooms. We had, like, a very intentional. There was music and there were, like, guides. There were guides. It was.

[Valerie]

They brewed a tea.

[Pete Holmes]

It was done in accordance with, like, all the maps, people. And, you know, it was like the ultimate set and setting. So. And I ended up doing. I think it was like, three and a half grams, which is more. I've always done, like. I don't know, one.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So this was like three and a half X that. More. So, of course, I consumed it as a tea and I was, like, pretty nervous. We were all singing and loving each other. It was beautiful. And wearing comfortable clothes and beautiful setting and all this stuff. And then we went out and it started kicking in. And then I got, like, really kind of scared, which doesn't sound correct, but. But there's no way to ever be fully ready for how it feels to be like you're about to be under the control of another thing. And people have talked about mushrooms, too. Feeling very embodied. Meaning this thing kind of seems to have its own intelligence and its own. This sounds terrifying, as I say this, but you just feel like you're in. You're surrendering into an experience. And no matter how much you say that as Earth with Pete, once you start becoming cosmic, you're merging into cosmic Pete. You're like, this could be anything.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's also three times more than I've ever done. So I'm like. We went into the living room and you were with me, and you could tell, like, just something wasn't right. And what. I kept yawning, too. That's kind of normal. So what I was experiencing was I was excited, bored, terrified, and tired at the same time. Like, none of those go together right. And I'm yawning. And then my secret thought was I was like, why Would I want to leave this plane? I love this plane. Like, I want to eat chips and laugh with Val and just hang out and I'm leaving Earth. So there was, like, this resisting the call kind of thing.

[Valerie]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And then Valerie, in all her wisdom, took me outside. I had been outside. Outside wasn't quite right. But then you took me alone.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I took you away from the group.

[Pete Holmes]

You took me away from the group and away from the weird fucking music. Look, I liked the music, but there was a lot.

[Valerie]

It was a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

And everyone's having their own experience. I'm kind of invested in how they're doing. You took me to this patch of grass by myself, looking at this tree that was covered in, like, long.

[Valerie]

It was a Muppet tree.

[Pete Holmes]

A Muppet tree?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It looked like a swamp thing or. It's hard to explain. And then. And then the mushrooms really kicked in. And I'm on the grass under a blanket with a big pillow that you got me. We joked that the big takeaway from this big trip I had was. I am such an introvert.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the most introverted. It. And I was. You came to check on me later and I. And I was crying and in this blanket laying on the grass. And I said, I'm as happy as a boy can be. And Valerie, I was as happy as a boy can be. Other people, there's no judgment here. I'm just saying some people want to, like, talk and listen to music and move and, like, relate, connect with each other. And I'm like. And I've felt this way every time I do mushrooms. I'm like, it. It wants you. And it's never. It's always here, but it's never here in this available form. So answer it. Go towards it. And I had the most. I flirted with. I would call creator God. Ketamine is a non. Dual experience. You go into the beautiful void, the luminous emptiness. Mushrooms is like a creator God. It's like a gaia energy, like earth, life, light, art. And it was showing off. That's all it was doing. My intention was to hang out with myself. That was not the experience. It was like, no, put all of that theory aside. I'm just going to dance. This tree is like. I told you at one point, the tree was like, here's the message. Sorry, I know I'm going on and on. It's just hard to talk about the tree. I loved the tree and nature more than anything. And I felt like Shakespeare or Monet. And I'm. And I'M One of the things I remember saying was like, I won't blaspheme you by giving you a name. I didn't know what to call it, but I was like, but I love. I love. I love you so much and I'm weeping and it loved me. And I was going me and it was going me. It couldn't believe. It was so amazing and I loved it, but it was like, you're so amazing and I love you and you are it. And I was like. And we were flirting.

[Valerie]

Yeah, we were.

[Pete Holmes]

It was poetry and music and I just want to write you a symphony. And like, I can't. And it was like, I want to write you a. It wouldn't speak in those terms, but it was like, you're as beautiful as this. And then I'd look at a dead tree and I'm like, you're the most beautiful thing I've ever. Everywhere I looked was the face of God, is what you could say.

[Valerie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And. But it was pure. When I say it was non sexual, it was sexual in the sense that it was absolute energy and the exchange of energy, but it was pure non sexual love affair. And. And I'll never forget that it was as much as I was enamored with it. And it was a mushroom trip. The ground was rainbow purple. And anytime I got up to pee, I'd be standing there like a giant and there'd be this fountain of pee coming out of me and I'm like, every breeze and every bird, I was just like. And everywhere I looked was absolute bliss. But like, I forget what my punchline was there. It was just showing off and. And oh, it was like, don't forget. This was its message for me. Don't forget. Ta da. It was like, I love Rupert. And there is some bhakti. There's some devotion in Rupert. But it was like, don't forget. Kapow. It was like, all of that is ultimate reality. And my feeling that, like, that's the highest truth. But like, don't forget we wanted to incarnate and we wanted to go and we wanted to show the fuck off for ourself and kiss and eat ourselves and God, I just. At one point, the tree seemed to turn away from me with big cartoon eyes and it like, blinked them like flirtatiously and was like me, like a cartoon.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There was also another funny part where I was getting kind of bold. Now I'm in the peak of it and I'm like, what? You just see stuff. It's fine. There's Nothing scary about this. And then the tree started, like. I can't describe it, but it started becoming, like four dimensional almost, like, almost digitally coming out of itself. Not as a scary thing, but not as a chill thing either. I was like, with respect, madam. Like, I tipped my hat and was like, yes, I'm at your mercy. Like, it. It was very. But even that was a flirt. It was like, oh, you think?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's just seeing stuff. There's nothing you could see that would kind of be a lot for you. Well, what about this? And I was like, oh, yeah. And I know this isn't quite making sense, but all I wanted to say was I was a wave splashing against the rock of creation and just delighting. Don't forget. Ta da. Don't forget every tree is. It's just orgasm and love and connect. It was the best.

[Valerie]

Oh, I love it. Okay. I've felt that before and I.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry, Val, we're out of.

[Valerie]

Should we go to, like, old school? We made it weird. I can read this poem that I wrote when I was.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd only ever love it in that state.

[Valerie]

I think I've read this one on the podcast many, many, many years ago. Well, not many, many years ago. A couple years ago.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, please. I'd love to hear it. Should I play the music?

[Valerie]

I don't know. Should we? I haven't looked at this. I haven't read this in a very long time. I'm just kind of looking through it right now to make sure it's not embarrassing. But maybe it is embarrassing, and that's okay, too.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie, we have to play the music.

[Valerie]

Okay, wait.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I have it. Here it is. This is like old times.

[Valerie]

I know. I'm already nervous. Okay. It's called worship. Worship. The earth is so delicious. I devolve into an animal on hands and knees, scraping and burning my skin on the hot concrete. You are not up there. You are down here. I want to eat the bugs and fallen leaves and lick the blood from my own knees. You are not up there. You are down here. I am not humbled. I'm obsessed. I devour. I impose and transgress. I bite and break and grope. And take. You are not up there. I kiss and stroke anything that I broke. You are down here. I am the first head that was ever bowed. And I do not move and I do not move away. I move toward. You are not up there. You are down here.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie, how dare you be nervous? I say it all the time. But if you told me that. That was. And I love Mary Oliver. I'm not like, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. So I don't know if that's good. I'm saying I read a lot of Mary Oliver. I love poetry. And that is amazing.

[Valerie]

But isn't that incredibly, like, your experience? And I, like, had that on a hike once where I was just like, I need to, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Have sex with this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to be graphic, but it felt like oral.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, I'm gobbling it.

[Valerie]

Because it's not. Because it's, like, sensual and erotic. It's not like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

It's like what sex was supposed to be. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not thrusting and humping.

[Valerie]

It's like.

[Pete Holmes]

It was like.

[Valerie]

It's like, how do you.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe it's less dirty to say kiss it. It was, like, passionately making out.

[Valerie]

Yes. It's like, how do I merge with you? How do I get more into you or get you more into me?

[Pete Holmes]

And I can't stress this enough. It was. It was so obsessed with me. It couldn't believe that I was there. And I was so humbled by it. And I kept being like, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Valerie]

It's like the best feeling of falling in love where you're like, but I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolutely obsessed with you.

[Valerie]

And you are of me.

[Pete Holmes]

I was in love, absolutely. And anytime Pete came up, I'd think about Pete. I'd think about his life, his problems. It was like, just, you're not Pete. You just think you are kind of thing. It's like, you're not anxious. You just think you are. You're not depressed or anything. You just think you are. And it was like, so just for now, let's not think about that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And guess what? You don't go anywhere. You just show up to the wedding banquet. That's what it felt like.

[Valerie]

This is the whole thing. I was thinking about this today. I was like, okay, March. March is a month for me that I like. You know, I. I get. I get so much comfort and I. In enjoyment out of, like, really defining the seasons and embracing it and, like, just merging with the seasons. And I'm like, all right, March, here we go. It feels sort of like a liminal space for me where I'm like, it's still kind of winter, but we're thinking about spring and whatever. And. And I just had this thought. This is all I was driving yesterday where I was like, if I were in Love. If. I mean, I am in love. I love. If I were falling in love, I would see March clearly. I would be like, it's so green, and there's clovers and there's like. Remember that March? It was like a wet field with a rainbow. And like, you know, it's just like. And that is our truest nature. And so it's just sort of, you know, this is why people, like, you know, have affairs or breaking up and, like, perpetually trying to fall in love.

[Pete Holmes]

They want that.

[Valerie]

Cause they think that that's the only way to access true seeing and clear.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. But it's not one Rupert Spire thing. He says that love isn't relationship. Love is the collapse of relationship. So you vanish together into the thing that you both always and already were. And that's what I felt like me and this tree were doing. And obviously, you can access that feeling all the time. That was the one Rupert thing. After this retreat, I was like, oh, the pathway to just going like, my nature is peace and happiness, and I share that nature with everyone and everything to that experiential knowing is just. I was encouraged. I was like, oh, you practice. That's what he told me a year ago. He was like, just go into your being in every kind of situation. And my question last year and my question this year were completely different. My question on the first year was, can we trust awareness? How do we know it doesn't want to send us to hell, basically? And my question this year was, rupert, everywhere I look, there are all these metaphors. What do you make of that? There's empty space. There's childbirth, there's the ocean. There's, you know, clouds. There's dreams.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, what do you make of that? That this world is chuck a buck. We talked about this last time. Full chockabok, chockabuck, chockablock, chockablock. I didn't say it when I asked it, and it was so sweet. He's like, pete, I completely agree. And we just had this really sweet. I was like, oh, some of the fear is dying off and some of the trust is building. And even better, like, what I experienced on mushrooms or in love is right there. I mean, like, this isn't just positive thinking. It's like, your nature is peace and happiness. That which is the substance out of which your sadness emerges and then recedes back into that substance which we call knowing or consciousness or being is completely fulfilled. It's limitless, timeless and fulfilled. It's peaceful, it's happy. It's even joyful. None of these things are quite literally like the human emotion. But get curious yourself. Go to the experience of knowing and ask yourself, is it frustrated we can't find little issues? Yeah, that's not a fire to you. That's what I'm doing when I can't find the shoes.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you go, oh, that pathway is getting clearer. The snow is getting packed down, and I can walk on it more clearly.

[Valerie]

Don't forget this podcast is also sometimes fart sounds. I'm gonna say our thing and then you do a. You do the sound effect of a crispy fart.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know how to do a crispy fart.

[Valerie]

Think about it. This is important. This is a test.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Valerie]

All right, everybody. Thanks for listening to our weird and wacky wild. We made it weird. Keep it crispy. Perfect. Perfect.